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BBB: Kos ist die Stimmel der Leute! :: Kos is the voice of the people? Nein! 10 July 2006

Posted by marisacat in 2006 Mid Terms, Abortion Rights, Big Box Blogs, DC Politics, Sex / Reproductive Health.
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    It's a gang, from Clockwork Orange

 Alex: There was nothing I hated more than to see a filthy old drunkie, a-howling away at the filthy songs of his fathers and going blurp blurp in between as if it were a filthy old orchestra in his stinking rotten guts. I could never stand to see anyone like that, especially when they were old like this one was.

CT: The curse of the liberal issue groups

by kos

Mon Jul 10, 2006 at 09:37:36 AM PDT

House Race Hotline:

Reps. Rob Simmons (R-CT 02), Chris Shays (R-CT 04) and Nancy Johnson (R-CT 05) have all won their Dem-leaning seats by chipping off parts of the Dem coalition. But given the poor national environment for GOPers, their Dem challengers looked well-positioned to knock them off this cycle.

Oh it is to laugh.  As i cannot cry over such predictable crap [Boyz, shall we really look at Nancy Johnson, issues of CT 5 and 6, 2000 and 2002 elections, gerrymandering of 5 and 6, Nancy Johnson’s 54/43 win over Jim Maloney – who iirc won his seat in 00 with 51%?  You really want to?]. 

“cactus ed” from the preceding thead posted links to the above anti liberal sloberation… Kos lui-meme today… and Kos lui-meme from 5/23/05 (time flies when you are having fun):

The curse of the single issue groups

by kos

Mon May 23, 2005 at 12:37:01 AM PDT

Armando has rightly taken NARAL to task for their endorsement of Republican Senator Lincoln Chafee. NARAL was one of the groups that fully opposed anti-abortion Democrat Jim Langevin’s short bid for the Senate seat.

Nevermind that Langevin would’ve crushed Chafee and gotten us one seat closer to a Democratic-led Senate. And a Democratic-led Senate wouldn’t ever let any abortion legislation see the light of day. But NARAL, myopic fools that they are, think Chafee is a better bet, despite his vote for Trent Lott, Bill Frist, and their allegiance to the James Dobson, American Taliban agenda.

NARAL, and many people here, whined and cried about Langevin, the way they whined and cried about Harry Reid, because of those Democrats’ personal opposition to abortion. Didn’t we know, they demanded, that choice was a core principle of the Democratic Party?

To which I have a simple answer: The hell it is. [snip]

[one big difference, the comments from 5/23/05 are all missing.  ALL of those threads were highly contentious, there was push back.  Geesh, even other FFPers disputed that Langevin had even ever entered the race… he retreated immediately.]

And I have been clear where I am on NARAL – and the Big Box Blogs, the Anti Women Wars (from 03/07/06): 

The picture on the ground in SD, and several other states, is very bleak for women… but as I cast my mind back over a year long of online – and so very ”DLC” it has been – demagoguery of NARAL (imo, there is a buzzing bee up Kos’s ass), and, while I believe in very harsh criticism of pols, lobbyists, hacks and others, I have been around the block… and there is a difference. Demagoguery is meant to demonise.

The past 6 weeks the demagoguery starts to extend, across the board, from NARAL to PPFA. Often involving a small circle of “incestuous amplification” blogs who tie in tightly via, again!, incestuous linking to the Red Star Mother Ship….

I say: they wear pink rhinestone collars and leashes and the leashes lead straight back to the party. Yes yes yes: they are “Democratic” sites. They surely do coordinate. Rahm, Reid, Hillpac, Schumer, Rendell, others. The conservative Democrats, red states, blue states, purple states… all the same in the end.

Scratch so many Democrats and you find a “reformed” Republican, ones that have scarcely changed at all, never really left Republican mommy and daddy…. Why cultivate your base, why form coalitions, when you can just herd the new weeds?

 More:

I may be, and I am in fact, uneasy with the national level at NARAL, long time Democratic office holder in MT, Nancy Keenan, til she failed at her run in ’00 (lost to the R by 6 pts) for the one seat in the House (it is possible to be critical and not demagogue her). There is no real ground level history of working for reproductive rights… unlike Kim Gandy, who, in addition to a history as a Louisiana prosecutor, came up thru the ranks at NOW for 30 years and ascended thru internal vote.

However, let’s take a look at REAL grassroots in SD – as opposed to what I call “greasy roots”, the visible leadership of the Big Box Blogs:

The Unitarian Universalists, a tiny number in SD – all of 186 souls at three congregations spread out across those hard rural roads of SD… from within their number we find Mahala Bach, who came forward with her desperate recounting of the most brutal rape at the age of 13 and her subsequent abortion, sought with the support of her mother and her doctor.

By the way, the head of South Dakota NARAL is a member of the UUs, who have fought valiantly on the ground.  Where it really matters.  

But an interesting play Kos has run for 16 months or so.  Anti liberal, anti woman, anti coalition (if you don’t have disparate groups who can be brought together, you don’t get coalition).

As for Armando, in the present tense (and what tense is that?), I addressed that despoiled landscape in the last two “updates”: 

 BBB: Boyz Boyz Boyz, whaddup boyz? :: “Important shit” Update :: NY mag update :: “if you can stand it” update!! 9 July 2006

 Elsewhere on the trashed tabloid landscape that is Kos FP, he slobbers for Sibelius, who is credited with bringing over (Monte Hall, Let’s Make a Deal anyone?) three Repubs.  Wowo Go Girl.  Bagged 3.

 I know the easy answer why the worst of the Democrats (line ‘em up, Rahm, Schumer, Reid… keep going) feel they can abandon the base, all corners of it, they will recruit REPUBLICANS.  Something Kos would be comfortable with.

  Webb anyone?  He answered recently (ABC This Week, past Sunday) that he would vote for the Democrat in ’08.  I don’t think anyone believed him, frankly.  I did not. It appeared to me Steph did not believe him when he said he voted for Kerry in 04.  Hell I did not.  I knew he would not fight, even if he won.

 My problem is there is no real migration.  They want some fucked-up pseudo-Republican party.  And we are not talking liberal NE Republicans circa 1960.  Really really not.  They want one that hardly diverges, in the nitty gritty it does not, from modern Republicans.  Sorta like Sen Danforth (a minister) who complained about the religiousity of the present day Republicans.  He, who sheperded Clarence Thomas thru a majority Dem senate in 1991.  Gave his big gut busting speech about religion and the modern party…. at Clinton’s library.

Useless, as it was intended to be…

 Elsewhere, he hints he may go after Barbara Boxer… using her Pac.  Well guys.  There are people literally waiting in the rafters, Stage Left and Stage Right – or so it seems to me, from simple observation…

  I’d wanna be very sure my PAC was in good order.  Hmmm?  BlogPAC… in good shape there?  I see it is listed on the Act Blue page… hmmm? Disbursing monies to candidates?  Did it ever?

 Yes you have said, way way over at MyDD, that it will be used to … what was it?  Got that handy?  What was that again, it will be used to defend the blogs, the nets?  Shore up Blahhhggers? 

What was that again?  What does that mean?

… you know there will be more.  Now that we are in the tunnel…

************************************************************************

UPDATE 8:50 pm, PT

Canvassing for donations… for:

Speaking of fundraising and currying favor, any and all Leadership PACs are welcome to donate to BlogPac. Email me at chris@mydd.com for details. You won’t actually get any beneficial posts or positive coverage from doing this. Also, I have known my favorite potential candidate for well over a year, and that ain’t changing.

However, your money will be used to defend the netroots and increase our political efficacy.

If you think helping the netroots will help your future campaign, your money will be well spent.

Well, if ”so far so good” is lookin’ fine, absolutely! go ahead and sink the dollars into the boyz.

**********************************************************************

Half the story update, Midnight:

CA-Gov: Westley’s attacks in the CA GOP’s ads

by kos

Mon Jul 10, 2006 at 10:40:26 PM PDT

This is what the slash and burn Democratic gubernatorial primary in California wrought.

The California GOP is now running an ad that ressurects the entire quotes from Steve Westley’s attack ads.

The tagline? “Quotes from Democrat Steve Westley about Phil Angelides.”

The announcer signs off the ad, “What if Steve Westley was right?”

It was so fucking obvious, and the reason I was turned off by the primary. They did the California GOP’s dirty work for them. And did it better, and more effectively, than anything the Republicans could’ve ever put together on their own.

Oh that is pretty funny.  It really is, those ads have been running for weeks now…. and! Trippi worked for Westly.  I believe his title was ”advisor on internet strategy” (an interesting link, catch the comment from Michael Turk)… All that really happened with the Westly run was an early lead shrank the hell away.  But Westly was a great cash cow… he put in 37 million of his personal resources, last I heard.

Guess YouTube failed… But not to worry, they say Lamont is using it in CT!

And a Democrat is on board with Arnold.  She promises him a landslide.  And they’ve done their own oppo… they, the Repubs, did not need a nasty primary… Really!  The real truth is what Meyerson wrote a few weeks ago, we are worn out with elections in CA, between long ballot issues, a nasty recall ( you want nasty?) and just so many elections

Nobody gives a shit that the name Westly is still sliding around.  He kissed Arnold, by way.  Guy Hugs, at the least!

 They have been running the same theme at MyDD about the CA primary, that the ugliness of it turned their delicato selves off, Bowers iirc —  Kos trying to bitch and moan about a harsh primary… ?. Because….

If nasty primaries are the issue, then CT is the asshole of the nation.  The gaping sphincter.  If these Boyz were supposedly building, rebuilding … the “Democratic” brand.. Well… rebuilding ”the brand” is not what is happening in CT.

Everything else about the Boyz is being questioned… time to move on to:

 are they rational?  Cuz I’d be shutting up about ugly primaries.

Asshole, is not usually one of my words.  But the Kossacks luv luv luv it.  Sort of a self-love thing… I guess.  Who knows with them, it is all follow the leader.  Ass Kissing, I guess, means you see a lot of… soemthing!

 Or that is the extent of language for them.  Catch the Meta-Asshole mini thread.  I suppose some might be confused between navel and asshole.  Could happen!  Fun what comes in over the transom… 

 If you left grammar school behind (really behind you) when you moved on, you can skip the link to the sub thread

 Or, go for it if you need a quick giggle.

About these ads

Comments»

1. observer - 10 July 2006

The whole world is watching!

See Booman here.

2. marisacat - 10 July 2006

LOL… no I had not seen that…

what a hoot!

3. observer - 10 July 2006

Kos = Norquist = Lenin?

Chait works out the math with Drum’s assist here.

4. observer - 10 July 2006

I’m sorry, but one more commentary on Chait’s LAT piece. Nothing too special here, but the thread is interesting, especially Omar the Poet’s challenge to Kos.

5. marisacat - 10 July 2006

oh observer

thanks for the tip on the thread with Omar the Poet. There also was a good reply to him, from ‘David Shaugnessy”… good thread.

and I will get to Kevin Drum in a bit…

good stuff… ;)

as an Irish columnist in the SF Chron used to say, Stir up the animals!

6. observer - 10 July 2006

You still haven’t captioned that picture. ;) You know the boyz better than I.

7. D. Throat - 10 July 2006

Oh my! Yet another DK satellite waxing Armando’s praises…

Makes you wonder what they have in store for this fellow come December, that they are all trying so hard to clean up his image… Caliberal’s prostations got down right creepy in her reverence for Armando…

My guess according to her continual repetition of talking points… it is something to do with women rights… and there was another hint in the BooMan thread about “putting the pie fights behind… forthe greater good of KosDom”…

What ever they are scheming we will see it in December… but keep eyes opened to the hints. This is why EMSOCK is so full of shit… they only “club” Armando has over her is … THE BUSINESS PLAN…. ditto the other satellites. Oh and the “Yeah it is front FPee’d on my blog but I do not believe it… is foul bubkis.

8. D. Throat - 10 July 2006

The push back on Lamont is correct….

Number one rule in politics is take a stand and STAND UP. They blogspits are trying to have it both way the rode the anti-war wave against Lieberman now they are employing the old bait and switch… and proclaim that

“It’s not about the war…”

fucking morons… even Rove agreed that the war was their only weak point and was more than happy when the Dems got rid of Dean…. complete fools.

These are the same creeps whine about the Dems not stand up for what they believe in then they completly stomp on the Anti War stance with Lamont… WHY???

The only reason and I mean the ONLY REASON, the blogspits are veering away from Lamonts so called Anti War postion is because every single known Democratic candidate for 2008 is pro war.

Let’s crash the gates not doing what is right but what is …opportunistic and convenient .

9. JJB - 11 July 2006

observer,

That’s hilarious. I posted another comment in the thread just before this one (which I don’t think has cleared yet) about how I’m sure this site has been monitored, and how I became aware that El Caudillo is constantly looking at various web sites to see what people have to say about him. I don’t know how he manages to keep up his legal practice, he must have some awfully good associates slaving away for him.

10. marisacat - 11 July 2006

LOL I saw this in a comment at Drum… I was saying this right after 04, Lieberman did this in the greater Miami area, I called it BIB, ”Bush is better” [‘for the defense of Israel and America’… that is the rest of what he said] as opposed to ABB.

I have NO problem iwth primarying L… but I think the whole primary is incidental to what these people are up to…

All of these Establishment types defending Lieberman based on his pre-2000 record remind of Charlton Heston talking about how he used to march with MLK, Jr. He never mentioned that he then joined the Goldwater campaign against Civil Rights. Lieberman has been campaigning to be John McCain’s running mate since the day after the 2000 election.

>i>As to the notion that crazay Lamont supporters drove Saint Joe from the party, a poster on Kos (horrors!) has an article from three weeks before the ’04 election, which describes Lieberman speaking in Palm Beach County (!), Florida (!!), effectively endorsing Bush over Kerry.

Posted by: Jim on July 9, 2006 at 4:58 PM | PERMALINK

LOL no news AND Lieberman was not hte only high level Democrat doing that. (Tho Ginigrich and Mona Charen thanked Lieberman in semi-public, at a GOPUSA breakfast right after election) They unleashed it in the last few days before election day.

So tell me again about the party brand? hmmm?

11. D. Throat - 11 July 2006

Right on time…JJB

Expect MSOC to issue a grovelling apology very soon, and for Armando to appear immediately in the comment thread with
a flowery tribute to her brilliance and their beautiful friendship, not unlike a physically abusive spouse coming home with flowers to make up for the assorted bruises he doled out the night before.

I was looking on the wrong thread… but WHUP HERE IT IS....

Oh by the way, to the disappointment of millions of the bullied and intimidated, Maryscott and I STILL love each other very much and still hold mutual respect for each other.

Because our love and respect is NOT dependent on our agreeing on much, or anything for that matter.

There is more maturity in our relationship than that.

Put your right foot in and take your right foot out

Put your right foot in and shake it all about

Do the Hookey Kabuki… and turn your self around

That’s what it is all about.. HEY!!

12. JJB - 11 July 2006

OMG!

Judging from the typos in that comment, it’s fair to assume he was hitting the Ron Rico when he posted that. Well, it was Sunday afternoon.

Really not much more to say, except that one of the the last words I would use to describe those two and their relationship is “maturity.” “Codependent” is much more fitting.

13. Stevo - 11 July 2006

“Maryscott and I STILL love each other very much and still hold mutual respect for each other.”

Imagine the children.

14. NYCee - 11 July 2006

See? He is not to blame. The cult is. Forget the ridiculous core of nothing he is. The fault lies with those who will not forget that and continue to shower, shower, shower him with rose petals of both hate and love and doncha just love best the hand-wringingly conflicted love-hate petals the best of all?

Oh, is it to laugh or is it to cry?

He is their daily soap opera. Must see. Cant miss, love ‘im or hate ‘im. And he laps up both in equal measure, with the same gusto. Nectar. They swoon over the dashing, clever, sharpster barrister, or despise the horrific, poster-slashing, tongue lashing shyster … or he sends them to the moon with a little bit of both … whatever, he is the spike that gives the empty spot its filler. The splash of liquor that’s the kicker.

Absofuckinglutely ridiculous.

I think it was summed up for me when I caught a sliver of the Kos panel on Cspan from YK and some dude – non-descript, regular looking guy, middle aged – actually stood up during question-time and used up his fricking question on the barrister/shyster.!

He actually fretted to the big guys and a befuddled Cspan audience – those not in the know (how lucky) – as to what could/should/might be done to rectify the recent horror of the ~gasp~ outing (Of he who names himself but cannot be named by others.)

(FADE to music: Days of Our Lives … Oh, such vacuous lives.)

The respondent was actually Kos, by the way, and I couldnt help thinking he himself was a bit taken aback to see one of his legions of MandoFans really caring about this shit in the flesh. It was embarrassing.

15. NYCee - 11 July 2006

Btw, when those of the love/hate/love-hate cult pump out this sort of shit repeatedly on big spotlight blogsites 24/7, do they really think Democratic leaders, those people they want to win or woo or whatever, have any reason to take them as seriously as they take themselves?

Blaming Democrats for having no message is just a wee bit rich, considering, isnt it? Let’s set up a frameshop:

Frame this: Love/Hate/Love-Hate of Mando must must must be #1 on the national agenda or we shall perish! Our ten trillion postings on it certainly must tell you so.

16. NYCee - 11 July 2006

I think this is the most I have said about him in … forever.

Must’ve stumbled into the right frame shop to discuss this bizarre phenom.

(Actually, I dont hate the guy. I really just find it too juvenile and Twilight Zone, the whole humongous fixation.)

17. Maryscott O'Connor - 11 July 2006

D. Throat,

Please note that I have not issued a “groveling apology” — nor will I.

I understand the disdain in which you and many who frequent Marisacat’s site hold me and Armando and virtually anyone who has anything at all positive to say about anything to do with DKos — but it also strikes me as a bit perverse that this is such a constant and overanalysed topic here.

Unless, of course, the entire raison d’etre of this site is to eviscerate all things remotely DKos-related. In which case, keep up the good work.

I started coming here to provide myself a heavy dose of checks and balances, but it IS rather difficult to sift through the regular bashing — especially when I’m included among the targets. All this loathing over what amounts to a distaste for my personality — it strikes me as overkill, but hey, whatever gets your rocks off.

18. D. Throat - 11 July 2006

I was just commenting on how prophetic JJB comment turned out to be. But it really was no great mystery because the same Hookey Kabuki gets played out by Armano and you every few months.

The prostrations to Armanso of that entire thread were not only embarrassing… but creepy.

If you can name something positive that has come out of this “Movement” besides employing out of work “Democrats” to blahg and massage right wing Democratic talking points all day then I am interested in hearing them?

The hubris of the “movement” has more often than not worked to defeat real progressives and elevate GOPers in Dem clothing and to thrash liberal issues has not gone amiss…

But what really sticks in my gall is the utter comtempt this “movement” has for the voter… people power my ass… to quote Papa Atrios:

This ain’t your fucking blog…subtext… shut the fuck up or leave.

The point is that the movement is now so contrived that it is predictable… hence the prophetic comment that started this conversation… It would be wise to remember that old adage…

You can fool some of the people some of the time but…errr…you can’t fool me.

19. observer - 11 July 2006

You haven’t just been bashed here, Maryscott. The threads include some very warm praise for the “Rotten” diary and your policy about not taking ads from politicos.

Both acts deserved to be lauded, but it was disappointing to me that you have not removed Armando as an administrator at MLW. Sure, there’s the “it’s my blog and I’ll do what I want to” response, but your reaction about this issue seems entirely focused on your friendship with Armando and not on the feelings of your MLW members who are intimidated by his antics. Just his status may be sufficient to deter some more sensitive souls from expressing themselves at MLW. Moreover, it’s hard not to interpret it as endorsing or at least excusing his behavior at dKos and elsewhere.

It surprised me that an empathizer like you did not see how retaining Armando as an administrator would impact MLW-ers who have been bullied by him or who are timid enough to fear the prospect.

20. pyrrho - 12 July 2006

what a bunch of masterbation and coincidence. I’m surprised to read this and the other Clockwork Orange blog (if there are but two, who knows)… I thought I would check LSF, partially after being maligned as a Bootribber… and was sent here to read stream of consciousness rants which I found quite interesting, followed by these very self satisfied comments. But Maryscott too… hmm, I must have colluded to check today, it could not have been coincidence.

But further, my refusal to condemn is of course very illiberal of me… my belief in diplomacy rather than self satisfied isolationism, quite conservative.

How terrible that words do not reflect a deeper hate, how wrong and vile that people should not follow through spoken disagreements with life long public scorn and anger, bitter resentments.

And you should all look at your notice of physical abuse, these things, these things are words… are they actions? Hardly, that’s a problem not of the blogosphere but of people that live only in the blogosphere, for you can write and act, but words, remain words, for communication and so it’s unlikley they are to be, in themselves, a reason to stop communicating, as you demand by implication and by stated standards.

so long as you all have people to feel superior too, you and kos can sleep eaqually as sound and it matters not.

21. Medley - 12 July 2006

Maryscott – I read marisacat for similar reasons — she has interesting and sometimes trenchant critiques that just are not allowed at some of the big boys’ sites. I haven’t had time over the years to follow all of the ins and outs of various comment threads and wars, and I missed whatever happened to get her banned from dKos but I was shocked to observe that it had happened.

I’ve been dismayed repeatedly at what’s gone on at these sites and as I said previously here, I think there is a deep anti-intellectualism at the heart of what some of these guys seem to be doing. I think it’s great that you read broadly (including this site) and I hope that you continue to do so – even when the criticism is harsh. Sometimes there might be a truth at the root of it, sometimes not, but listening to critics and integrating and adjusting when appropriate is a good thing (and sorely lacking in some places.)

That said, then, I’ll add my tuppence for you to consider or not – I am really appalled at the implicit acceptance of Armando’s behavior and by the fact that you give him admin privileges at your site. I have been on the internets a long, long time – seen a lot of wackiness – and I find his behavior atrocious, inexcuxable, and beyond the pale. Whatever his merits, his treatment of other human beings who disagree with him or dare to question him or Markos is outrageous. Yes, you can be friends with whomever you want, but your willingness to give him privileges at MLW after his repeated and shameful outbursts does color my impression of the site and, had I time to participate there, would probably prevent me from doing so very often.

I’m just one quiet, low-traffic (although very old school) weblogger, but I’ve been doing online community building and participation since about 1990 and I find his approach unacceptable and really don’t understand why it’s tolerated.

For what it’s worth.

22. marisacat - 12 July 2006

Gee Pyrrho… can I get you a cab? I don’t think you should be driving.

That is not sloberation, that is just drool.

23. Maryscott O'Connor - 12 July 2006

Regarding Armando at MLW:

Armando has, for a solid year, now, behaved impeccably at MLW, displaying no more (and in many cases, much LESS) inappropriate behaviour than anyone else.

I do not judge people at MLW based on their behaviour elsewhere. Many DKos exiles come to my site, and I have witnessed their meltdowns over there, their personality clashes and flame wars — but as long as they do not transfer it to MLW, they are perfectly welcome there.

The same policy applies to Armando as to anyone else — if he behaves appropriately, there is absolutely no reason to treat him any differently than anyone else. EXCEPT for the fact that he IS a trusted friend and advisor, which is why he has Admin privileges.

So far, he has never used them. He has used his front page status a handful of times, but never has he deleted someone else’s comments of posts.

He has a clean slate at MLW, in other words, as does anyone who comes there from elsewhere or from nowhere. I refuse to pay heed to the “criminal records” of parolees from other sites.

Mangled the metaphor, but I hope this fully explains my decision to keep Armando as an Admin at MLW. He is my friend, he has earned the position, and he has behaved perfectly appropriately at MLW. Whatever he has done or is doing at DKos is irrelevant to MLW.

24. St. John - 12 July 2006

Whatever he has done or is doing at DKos is irrelevant to MLW

Sounds like opacity.

25. JJB - 12 July 2006

Well, thanks to pyrrho, we can see that El Caudillo isn’t the only blogger who drinks while typing.

Although you do have to admire someone who can get “coincidence” right just after butchering “masterbation [sic]”. Speaking of [sic]k, I would guess that someone was, shortly after posting that. Hope he made it to the porcelain god. Spewing on the keyboard has an icky aftermath.

Guess my earlier comment about this site being monitored was spot on. :-)

26. marisacat - 12 July 2006

LOL JJB

the cops who arrested PeeWee Herman (1991??)spelled it as ”masterbation” as well. In their original dox for the arrest.

Really have to laugh.

27. D. Throat - 12 July 2006

Armando has, for a solid year, now, behaved impeccably at MLW

Oh so impeccable that there is a constant plea to get rid of him!!! This was not the first time some one has asked you politely to get rid of that nutcase… Wasn’t that the basis of his GBCW diary on MLW???… which btw he never left there either.

28. JJB - 12 July 2006

D. Throat:

I sent a few emails to both Kos and another FPer with whom I had cordial relations (promised never to mention who) complaining about A’s behavior. Apparently, some of these were shown to El Caudillo, who berated me in some comment thead for engaging in a behind-his-back email smear campaign along with unnamed others. One hopes Emsock is more ethical with regards to any such emails she’s received.

29. marisacat - 12 July 2006

uh yeah… “a year” is really stretching it. There is that “stepping away from commenting” …

But… whatever.

I am off to make cofee and feed and water Los Gatos (the ravening beasts).

So moderation will slow.

30. JJB - 12 July 2006

MCat:

Yes, Master Bation and his sibling Ly Bation, often seen together pounding the meat beat.

31. JJB - 12 July 2006

Oh darn, the html didn’t work. Imagine a strikethrough on the word “meat” in the previous comment.

32. Maryscott O'Connor - 12 July 2006

Jesus.

MLW has been in existent exactly 363 days. For Armando to behave impeccably at MLW for any longer ouwld be an impossibility.

People who beg for Armando’s disappearance are doing so based on their feelings about him that they developed based on his behaviour at DKos — NOT at MLW, where he has never displayed such behaviour.

I don’t know what this email thing is about, but I have never had occasion to do anything remotely like what you describe.

This is sick.

33. pyrrho - 12 July 2006

yeah, you have to laugh at spelling. And I had a drink which is 3/4 of a glass past my limit. It was also very late into the night, oh dear.

All excellent reasons to be smug.

I feel the same this morning however.

I find it funny marisacat, considering your stream of conscious style is not exactly a -sober- one. But what bothers me more is that our relationship, such as it is, made of ideas, fell apart precicely over this Armando issue, that I would not renounce him, I said he’d lost his marbles was and was being an ass back in the pie fight (and other times), and that, to you and LSF was defense. I tried after that but it was pointless, it was clear I was categorized, information had trouble being exchanged thereafter and it got boring, I presume for all of us. YOU grant him that import by basing your litmus test on him in any way at all.

You are one of the first people I remember at DailyKos, and there is no doubt that the way I see the world has more in common with what you see than it does with many of the other people at dkos. But I don’t have to cut off ties, and you wouldn’t have that. Now as a result my ties with you were cut instead.

Isn’t there something wrong with that? With natural allies that cannot be allies because of factional and group mathematics. I’m not playing that, any more than I’ll disown my mother for her politics, or any similar demand. Then these comments maturbate, masterbate, matersbate and matlerbute, with hideously condescending and vile metaphor, which evidently you enjoy entertaining. “Lalalal, I frolic in the fields of abuse and collusion and … ” JJB… you can see what I mean by considering the fact that after months and months of not reading LSF, I read LSF, and to you that’s “monitoring”.

What is the difference between “reading” and “monitoring”? Hmmm? Paranoia? It certainly is not the only obvious and literal difference that might pertain, and that is “monitoring” might be reading without commenting… silently passing by, which I have not done.

Yes, the difference is your notion of faction, who belongs to what group, etc etc, which all makes me quite ill. I don’t belong to groups because people don’t “belong” to other things. I have relationships with groups.

My experience with LSF and you marisacat, after the pie fights is the most painful, indeed perhaps the only painful, political blogging experience I’ve had, and the pain comes from the fact that I have consistently criticised kos for his attack on single issue groups and ideology, and at his own site, and this somehow means I did not “belong” to the right group.

You can deny it, or better yet, check my spelling in this comment, god knows I’m not going to, but I really don’t know any other interpretation.,

As far as I can tell one depressing problem in politics is that seeing how things really works drive many people mad. And also, this nausea that seeths in your writing, I understand it, I sympathise, but it’s good to take the advice of Madman’s favorite philosopher when it comes to being nauseous at a culture or nation… if you feel sick of it, you are the one suffering the from poisoning, you need a stronger stomach to get something done.

You can tell me as you did the last time we talked that the problem is I don’t read widely enough on the political blogs, but to me that’s like what I was recently told at dkos, that my problem is I probably hadn’t “EVEN” read Crashing The Gate, and that since I hadn’t, and since I was not interested in reading it, I should shut up. Those are the weakest of tries, but very hopeful.

This thread of comments was masturbation, and very self satisfied and non-loving masturbation I think… but if it’s misplelled then you can pretend I meant and said something else.

34. pyrrho - 12 July 2006

” Armando has, for a solid year, now, behaved impeccably at MLW

Oh so impeccable that there is a constant plea to get rid of him!!! This was not the first time some one has asked you politely to get rid of that nutcase… Wasn’t that the basis of his GBCW diary on MLW???… which btw he never left there either.”

Honestly, what is the logic of this? People asked for LSFers to be kicked from dkos, so of course, they were disruptive and deserved it?

The main difference here might be that I am a relativist, and I believe in taking a comment from various points of view. It simply does not follow that people politely asking for banning are automatically objectively right.

35. pyrrho - 12 July 2006

jjb,

“MCat:

Yes, Master Bation and his sibling Ly Bation, often seen together pounding the meat beat.”

I just want you to know I consider it a pleasure myself to watch people take great pleasure mocking my spelling. It’s clear enough I don’t care about spelling and consider it superficial and largely arbitrary. Ideas are important to me, spelling, you can have. It is telling which a person chooses, and of course, one can’t ask “which is more important to you, ideas or spelling” for one rarely will answer “spelling”… but this way it’s clear.

But I am not here to take away your fun, I enjoy superficial entertainments sometimes as well, mocking spelling online just isn’t one of them. Of course, bad spelling can be more easilly corrected than bad thinking, so you might consider that.

36. pyrrho - 12 July 2006

31. JJB – 12 July 2006

Oh darn, the html didn’t work. Imagine a strikethrough on the word “meat” in the previous comment.

how ironic… why don’t you imagine I spelled correctly? rofl.

37. NYCee - 12 July 2006

For what it’s worth, Maryscott ( I wrote most of this in the AM, after seeing your first post, but had to go to work) if you are including me in the bashing accusation, I havent said word one against you. As for Armando, I usually dont give him a thought – just not invested that deeply. And so I wouldnt and havent given you advice as to how you should interact with him, or what privileges you should give him on your blog. Who am I to do that? And while Im saying I cant be that presumptuous, I dont mean it in a self-effacing way, either.

For one thing, he is not an important issue to me. He’s not even an issue! If only everyone … Imagine if he had a party and no one showed up? But they do, so it’s not even really him or his party – it’s all the participants in the silliness, time and again. Given that, I certainly can comment on how utterly insane it is to find all the magnet filings flying to love/hate/love-hate him, or to feed his need to gorge on the attention, in post after post after puffy center post over days, months, years, on blogs that are supposed to have more pressing matters on the table. I imagine there are lurkers and participants who feel likewise but never say a thing. I said it here, to express myself without getting “engaged” in the twisted tango, perhaps inspired too by his recent displays of semi-automatic zeroing and the Good bye/Hello Again silliness as a result of the outing silliness that, btw, was not surprising in what it revealed.

For what it’s worth, I didnt agree that that post of yours was gushy. I didnt think that was a fair assessment. I understood it as something else. That said, there may be some real issues that impact those who take your site to heart and post there regularly, as Observer has pointed out. (Observer also rightly pointed out you were applauded by others, including me, for your move re ad revenue on another thread. I dont know if you saw that.) Perhaps you find yourself on a fine line from time to time. But, for all I know, Armando’s participation isnt more than a blip of an issue on your blog, so what is the fuss then, anyway? Fuss or not, it’s for you, the regulars, and him to handle, and I have no reason to doubt your assessment of it.

Moving beyond but not outside of the aforementioned, I dont know anyone’s fleshed out history here with you or what theyve seen or experienced in the details with you or in the blogworld discussed. But I have a sense of things. I know some of what has gone on, just by participating and observing, outside the thick of things, usually. So the bitter dregs do not surprise me. I think there are good reasons for some of the criticisms, and that they can serve a good purpose. Those who have been more deeply involved can add to the picture, sometimes meaningfully, crystalizing some aspects of the scene. Sometimes not, of course — none of us are perfect, after all. It’s too often a circus (as Marisa has portrayed it, in theme photos) and sometimes I ride in the clown car, too.

Marisacat has her experiences. She has her views. She has her voice. Having known her as I have, since I first dropped down on Kos, and mostly on Kos, I am glad she’s around. My experience with her has been positive. She brings something, much needed, to the table.

Glad you took a look and added your two cents. I dont think it was all for the worst, really, rough or unfair as it may be sometimes. I would say, if you do keep checking in, be discerning, if possible. Not that you arent. I think you are striving for something better.

38. marisacat - 12 July 2006

Pyrrho…

LOL

I have not paid much attention to you since this reaction on your part at LSF August 2005.

you seemed to think you could “counsel” me. Geesh. Old tired patterns.

http://66.232.56.61/ee/index.php?/fist/more/the_dope_leading_the_doped/

I won’t be replying again. Too circular. and by now I am two threads ahead of this one.

39. Maryscott O'Connor - 12 July 2006

Thank, NYCee. No, I wasn’t including you in the bashing. As far as I can see, there are only three or four people here who do that regularly, and more power to them, I suppose.

The irony, however, of calling people like me “navel gazing” and “attention seeking,” making it all about ME — by people who then spend so much time talking about…me — it’s too much, man. I like checking in here to see what’s going on, but hwne I see myself being talked about by people who don’t even know me, in terms that might politely be called “rude,” it’s a little off-putting. So be it, I guess.

You’d think they’d have better things to do with their mental energy, though.

40. NYCee - 12 July 2006

Phyrro:

Sorry you feel this was a total masturbatory thread. (Why dont we just go for onanism and call the whole masturbatory spell-check off, eh?:-)

Since I participated, I will go on the assumption that I am included in your assessment.

I’ll speak for my part, then. What I would call masturbatory is more often and clearly present in what Ive seen in the Mando-interruptus threads at Kos, the whole scene I have already described here. Like I said, Im not a participant, not even a commenter on it, post-participation. So to comment here, in a separate space that is agreeable, to express the frustration with it, seems perfectly reasonable to me. Especially after being silent witness lo these many months and years. (And I dont see the half of it, not even close).

So there it is. Just speaking my part to the part that seems to have involved me.

41. NYCO - 12 July 2006

There is only so much you can say about Daily Kos. It’s a dead end.

42. marisacat - 12 July 2006

And NYCO wins!! The so called convo there is so rigged it just goes round and round.

Which is how Dkos site operation likes it.

End of story.

There is no advancement, there is just the next [losing] election. The operative cadres and the factions and the thread games. Each election to be advertised as New and Improved. Retail Dem party site. No news there!!

*******************************************

As for anything else at this site, in comments or FP text… I make no apology. If people want to complain, explain, or whatever. Free to.

As for commenters, they can say what they want.

MSOC would do well to reread what I wrote in Hot Air in the original exchange. Still holds.

And Pyrrho can re read in the old LSF thread I posted for him. still holds.

To let anyone posting know:

moderation will slow.

Be off the computer for a bit. Feed and water the gatos and the dry garden, been hot today here…

43. pyrrho - 12 July 2006

I feel free to counsel people, and I seek their counsel.

And I will remain that way.

I am not above recieving counsel, nor below giving it, not in my opinion.

NYCee, frankly, it was the gestalt of reading the whole thread, and one could include my contribution as well, as it certainly ended up being in the spirit of the thread… I’ll only clarify the part I found so revulsive is the notion of the abusive relationship metaphor… who is the abuser who is the recipient? It is a degrading metaphor.

And one other point… the simplistic thinking about Armando’s banning is not about Armando, it’s about MLW, and we have had demands to ban people too leftist, or “purity trollish” as well. I’m glad these demands are rebuffed even though people I care for are making the demands sometimes and may even leave themselves instead.

I don’t appreciate that tolerance cast as spousal abuse, and done with glee it’s positively revulsive.

Marisacat, you point out that you have not paid attention to me, and that is fine, very few people claim that -I- am an attention seeker, indeed, I cull attention with the utmost efficiency.


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