Open Thread: War Continues. 29 July 2006
Posted by marisacat in DC Politics, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, WAR!.trackback
From Reuters Alternet (full text):
BEIRUT, July 29 (Reuters) – An Israeli air strike hit Lebanon’s main road to Damascus on Saturday just 1 km from the border with Syria, cutting the highway in both directions, witnesses and security sources said.
Three air strikes hit the road between Lebanese and Syrian immigration offices, but on the Lebanese side of the border, they said. There was no information on casualties.
The Israeli military said it had struck the road to cut arms supply routes from Syria to Hizbollah guerrillas in Lebanon.
“The military attacked the road from Lebanon to Syria to prevent the smuggling of weapons,” an army spokeswoman said.
Israeli aircraft have been pounding southern Lebanon, southern Beirut and other parts of the country in an 18-day-long war against Hizbollah.
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Gore Vidal in The Progressive… from an interview he sat for in April so before some of the latest madness. A snip or two tho… 
Q: Talk about the role of the opposition party, the Democrats.
Vidal: It isn’t an opposition party. I have been saying for the last thousand years that the United States has only one party—the property party. It’s the party of big corporations, the party of money. It has two right wings; one is Democrat and the other is Republican.
Q: What can people do to energize democracy?
Vidal: The tactic would be to go after smaller offices, state by state, school board, sheriff, state legislatures. You can turn them around and that doesn’t take much of anything. Take back everything at the grassroots, starting with state legislatures. That’s what Madison always said. I’d like to see a revival of state legislatures, in which I am a true Jeffersonian.
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And arms dealers the world over stand up and cheer! – the refrain for war…
Asia Times takes a look at some nefarious deals and dealing for our 51st state (or is that Israel, and poor Iraq is 52nd?). We are in the middle of the dark and nasty arms deals… No shock!
But the latest and most interesting development on the small-arms front in Iraq was the news in May that the Pentagon has secretly shipped tens of thousands of small arms to Iraq from Bosnia-Herzegovina in the past two years, using a web of private companies. At least one supplier is a noted arms smuggler, Viktor Bout, blacklisted by Washington and the United Nations.
The US government arranged for delivery of at least 200,000 Kalashnikov machine-guns, together with tens of millions of rounds of ammunition, from Bosnia to Iraq in 2004-05, according to a report by Amnesty International, which investigated the sales. But though the weaponry was said to be for arming the fledgling Iraqi military, there is no evidence the guns reached their intended recipient.
While I am in the neighborhood of weaponry, Asia Times takes a look at the Syrian military… land sea and air. I have no idea what is coming, but just read a not very substantial article in the Telegraphe (UK) that might well have been a float and yet made me so nervous.
Who knows. Trapped forever on the Champs de Mars.
![Fallujah 4/10/04 [AFP]](http://static.flickr.com/68/200842630_935eabc82b_m.jpg)
The roar across Israel’s hot blue sky was unmistakeably different. I glanced at Capt. Doron, standing beside me at the border, the pine trees in Lebanon just a short walk away.
“F16,” he explained. “Now you’re using F16s to bomb Bint Jbeil?” I asked incredulously. ”No,” he said flatly, peering into the distance. “They’re flying further north in Lebanon.”
Then, the loud crack as the F16 attack aircraft, the “biggest bang” in Israel’s arsenal, unleashed its massive payload.
Capt. Doron counted. “One two three four five …” The sound of a deafening explosion travelled back to us from a few kilometres away.
“Bint Jbeil,” he said, his own eyebrows now arching in surprise.
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via Reuters (full text):
QANA, Lebanon, July 30 (Reuters) – An Israeli air strike on a south Lebanon village on Sunday killed at least 35 civilians, including 21 children, witnesses and rescue workers said.
They said several houses in the village of Qana collapsed and that a three-storey building where about 100 civilians were sheltering was partially destroyed.
GAZA – Round up piece from the Irish Examiner:
Israeli tanks and troops pull out of northern Gaza
Israeli troops and tanks pulled out of northern Gaza early today after a bloody two-day sweep, killing 29 Palestinians, but Israeli aircraft pounded the area.
The Israeli army killed five Palestinians yesterday, including a 75-year-old woman and a child, and the body of a militant was found after the Israelis pulled back.
The raid produced the bloodiest violence since Israel launched its Gaza offensive a month ago, but the world’s attention is focused on Lebanon, where Israeli forces have been fighting Hezbollah guerrillas since July 12.
and a blog, A Voice from Gaza [thanks bayprairie]:
You know this silly plane called….hmm never knew the word in English will look it up and write it here. It is the one that takes pictures and monitor the movement on the ground. This has a sound of a bee. and it affects the satellite image. So if it is there, it is kind of annoying. Guess what? Only few months ago..This stupid plane started to actually targed people and bomb them.
It drops the bomb right straight on the target, while the Apache has to be away a little bit and has to have an angle to hit.
You know this not silly plane called F-16? This just hit a house that was evacuated few minutes before. Man….You know to bomb a house in a crowded residential area with a F-16 means at least 5 houses around that one will have at least broken windows, and broken door frames and will have sharp and killing debris. Doesn’t sound that bad..Does it?
I don’t want to follow more on news…I am sure the night will continue as long as the several silly planes are around.
His latest entry is on Qana, the south Lebanon village where now the count is up to 50.
Qana..
I cant even stand any of the statements that concern “both sides” I cant stand “peace”, negotiations”. Sorry, if you expect me to be rational…
Olmert is so proud and celebrates with Rice the Qana acievement.
What is wrong with those people. Did you know that 21 of them are under the age of 10. do u know that it was a big house and the 58 were sleeping! 50 raids…Qana recieved
So, If you like Hizbollah…you are bombed? Is there any other explanation!?Qana of 1996…100 civilians in shelters were burnt
Qana of 2006 … about 60 … in their houses. the first hour of July 30thDid you see reporters crying live? in the 1996 one and today’s!
forgive me..just needed to say something..
israeli tanks massing on the border with Lebanon July 28 [Reuters]
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Issacharoff, a deputy from the Israeli Embassy is on Wash Journal. I can barely stand his voice… but latest is Rice decides Beirut not too safe for her (my take anyway) .. from Reuters:
JERUSALEM (Reuters) – Her diplomatic mission in jeopardy after Israel’s bombing of a Lebanese village, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice canceled a visit to Beirut on Sunday, saying she had work to do in Israel to get a truce.
Rice, who returned to the region on Saturday in a new push to bring the warring sides together, said she was “deeply saddened” by the Israeli bombing of the village of Qana in southern Lebanon, killing 40 civilians including 23 children. [...]
She spoke after Lebanon’s Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said, after the latest Israeli bombing, he could not hold any talks on resolving the Middle East crisis before an immediate ceasefire.
“There is no place on this sad morning for any discussion other than an immediate and unconditional ceasefire as well as an international investigation into the Israeli massacres in Lebanon now,” Siniora told a news conference in Beirut.
Hundreds of protesters chanting “Death to Israel, Death to America” stormed the U.N. headquarters in Beirut after the bloodiest single attack of the war.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said he was in no hurry to strike a ceasefire before Israel had “reached the main objectives” set forth by the Jewish state.
WORKING ON TRUCE Continued…
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From Angry Arab:
At this time: all Arab TV networks are covering live the recovery of bodies–children and women mostly–from the Israeli massacre in Qana. You saw them digging out children from under the rubble. Viewers were warned about the images. AlJazeera’s correspondent, `Abbas Nasir, broke down. Even the pro-Bush AlArabiya TV had to interrupt its Saudi stock coverage to go to Qana.
![Qana Lebanon [AP photo]](http://www.channel3000.com/2006/0730/9598135_480X360.jpg)
![On patrol Maroun al Ras [Getty ]](http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2006/07/29/soldier.jpg)
![the dead at Qana [AP photo from the French press]](http://www2.canoe.com/archives/infos/international/media/2006/07/20060730-071012-g.jpg)
Al-Manar a aussi annoncé que le Hezbollah avait bombardé des avant-postes israéliens le long de la frontière. La milice aurait tiré au moins 47 roquettes dimanche sur le nord d’Israël, blessant légèrement dix civils.
Selon Tsahal, des roquettes Katiouchas sont tombées sur Nahariya, Kiryat Shemona et une région proche de Maalot. Mais elles ont atterri sur des zones non habitées, et il n’y aurait pas eu de blessés
Blair has problems of his own now.
I am pretty sure the Brits aren’t too happy knowing their country is controled by the US. Blair definitely Bush’s lap dog. woof woof.
An interesting piece in the Sunday Times encouraging the Tories to part ways with Blair–and the U. S. on the ME.
A bit:
What I’m reading this evening,…
A Voice From Gaza
:::snip:::
From Gaza, with Love
…reading, in between tears.
I have not been reading, sorry if someone pointed this out, but I and madman both mentioned google maps for use, but I was thinking about setting something up.
Then i remember Google Earth. It is a free program from google that uses the satelite data which is pretty good for beirut and puts it on a globe and already has a way to mark and share items… the info can pop up with pictures and html… I just installed it and was able to find a file showing the BBC anchors position in Beirut, allegedly.
http://earth.google.com/download-earth.html
the hariri bomb blast is also marked…
What you want is a complete list, havn’t seen one yet.
I have been wondering about the Aussies, I wonder if Howard feels like that forgotten step-child or is that just us here in the US tends to overlook the Aussies too. PM Howard is another Bush lapdog. Any way…
Australia asked to join Lebanon force
I wonder if plans are in the way to make an DMZ like the one between the two Koreas or its a fool ya kind of thing, one there it is meant to help Israel.
This is going to be more and more about Americans (unfairly or not) asking why the Israeli military has such poor aim.
Israel’s vaunted military prowess and savvy is what has kept the averagely-informed American tolerant of U.S. support of that military. Their fast and decisive and “clean” victories in ’67 and ’73 are a big part of the mythos that has made supporting them seem like a good idea.
Americans like to back winners. Cruel, but true. And unfortunately the mythic past has been played up so much that even if there weren’t this many civilians getting killed, a lot of Americans would still be developing second thoughts.
That said, I think Americans also genuinely do care about the PEOPLE of Israel.
Israeli Attack Kills 56, Including 34 Children
Umm…if the purpose of an attack is to destroy a target by surprise how do you warn people they are going to hit the village? If you warn them, wouldn’t the suspected target figure out that Israel found out where the rockets were launched and if it were several days, ummm….wouldn’t it give them the chance to move them?
Richard Silverstein thinks he’s been banned from dKos.
He may be right, but he has no confirmation despite asking for clarification by email. Of course, there’s hardly ever any confirmation. It’s like being on the “no-fly” list or having a bank file a Suspicious Activity Report on you. It’s part of the “law” that you can’t be informed of your status.
Why on earth would I – should I even – care about the people of israel? US money cares for them. That is enough.
If the American people also wish to “care” for the ”people of Israel” (a very disparate group if one follows Israeli immigration practices for 60 years) then let them be that foolish. And iwth a hard hard hard right leadership?, a leadership antithetical to any sort of liberalism? A hard right nasty religious conservatism, as fundamentalist as any anywhere? And a hard right religious movement that is abusive to non observers? (check the Friday evening battles that rage in various neighborhoods in Israel, replete with cops, tear gas and mounted police to repel the religious)…
And a shrinking peace movement. And a never to be dislosed REVERSE exodus.
15, 20 years ago I thought there was a last moment sort of hope for Israel, in that a good number of the population would look at Europe – and they WANTED to be a comfortable, well off, not at war mediterranean society. That was a real hope, could they accept the realities that peace would mean? They cannot. Their leadership cannot.
I NEVER support the big weapons.
I think people are foolish to write for “confirmation” of being banned.
That bunch loves for people to BEG.
The funniest thing about Dkos is all their hysteria (all about elections, really they could not care less, really…) over Bush. When they are the tiniest bullies. And all bullies are together in the end.
Marisacat, all I know is that if some Al Qaeda guy transporting a nuclear suitcase bomb for detonation in Times Square, got in a car accident on the NYS Thruway and it blew up a few miles from my neighborhood, about 75% of the world would cheer my slow, radiation-induced death, regardless of the fact that I never vote Republican and hated the Iraq war and have progressive sentiments and am involved in progressive causes. They’d smile at my suffering.
That’s kind of a cold world to live in.
I went to Red State to see how the Righties were handling Israel’s failure and happened across a front-page piece that surprised and impressed me. It’s here.
It comes from a front-pager who says he opposed the Iraq War from the beginning and now finds his views confirmed. Here’s a teaser:
wow, that is on the Red State servers, and they didn’t explode from the dissonance?!?!
I might disagree with his goals, but that sums up the problem w/ the Republican party, and American political parties in general, very well.
Ahmadinejad writes Bush as if religious faith is some common bond between them. I’m sure he knows better. Bush and Co. are on a Crusade at the behest of the Invisible Hand of the Rigged Market. Nothing to do with anything recognizable as Christianity.
It’s a cold world but at the same time, karma will come back and bite us in the ass for our past and current behaviors. Take a look at the Germans and I don’t mean Nazi Germany, the same Anti-German sentiment also occured during WW I when many countries attempted to dehumanize Germans as the enemy. It was done here when the US entered the war, some German-American immigrants were looked upon with suspicion and attacked regarding their loyalty. It went so far people thought German thinking was dominated by “prophets of war” like Nietzsche.
If you take a look at William L. Shirer’s The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich Shirer does not separate the Nazi’s and the German people, those from the White Rose Society, he wrote that it was a German group think. For example, on page five he writes that “the German people” were “a natural instrument which he [Hitler, that is] was able to shape to his own sinister ends.”
He also wrote that Bismarck, Kaiser Wilhelm II, and HItler left a group think mentality upon the German people in the form of a “lust for power and domination, a passion for unbridled militarism, a contempt for democracy and individual freedom and a longing for authority, for authoritarianism.” And once more in thundering tones of pontifical certitude it is asserted that “Nazism and the Third Reich … were but a logical continuation of German history.”
And that thought still remains for a lot of us. If the Germans say something militaristic, first thought is Nazis.
Lets not forget the Japanese
120,000 Japanese and Japanese Americans were forced into Japanese internment. And it wasn’t just Americans who did the same thing, more than 22,000 Japanese Canadians were forcibly interned in Canada.
We are doing that now in ME and it will come back and bite us. Empires will always have a backlash.
well no people are monolithic. I never ascribe that – not to the Japanese, the Germans, not even my own people (who are mess, all too often). But Israel is a small country, and the selling of it as purely post-Holocaust is out of date.
Meanwhile Blair is here in SF, on a self-promotion tour. Seems to be trodding the same route that Gorbachev took a few years ago. A soft landing in Northern California.
He is right, this is how these things are done. Many commenting here have had an identical experience, some more than once.
There are sometimes exceptions, Madman being the perfect example, where the enablers and assists get together in a celebratory thread and berate the recently banned. I see Richard’s drawn one of the standard “reasons” the management gins up when needed.
“Progressives”, my ass, certainly not at the top, anyway.
“Progressives”, my ass, certainly not at the top, anyway.
campaign operatives. nothing more.
Re the effects of the current events in the Middle East… my fascination with it, as it relates to America, is how previously unnoticed fault lines in the American supermyth may become exposed because Israel has not performed up to expectations.
I’m also interested in the mechanics of how America will start eating itself as it continues to lose standing and power in the world. (Actually, I’m intensely interested in this, as I feel I live in a region of the country that is going to be on the thin end of the stick no matter who gets into power.)
I’m trying to live 10-20 years in the future, right now. This is why I don’t particularly care who wins the White House in 2008. The difference seems academic.
I only find 2008 interesting in terms of observing politics. Or the spasms that pass for politics. It truly does not matter. Our systems, such as they are, are moribund.
And the ISraeli putsch fails as we fail, spectacularly, in Iraq.
Neither country is able to admit what is clear and is standard, on the ground insurgencies, motivated to whatever purpose, will prevail.
They just will. Eventually.
LOL the Round table on This Week discussed that the US may have to pull back to … Kurdistan.
Which will be dicey in the end too.
Pity people have to die as we insist that the easily observable truth is not happening.
Horrified.
From a report on McClatchey news service today (no link, hardcopy) “They should choose their neighborhoods better”. This is a quote from a 21 year old Israeli soldier manning an artillery piece on the front line. There is an implication in this quote (well supported by the context — I am not including the entire graf, it’s just too long to type) that “target legitimacy” is transitive, that is “If you live in a Hezbollah neighborhhood or you use Hezbollah social services you are a legitimate target”. This is a dangerous slippery slope.
The Israelis have for the most part decided that this is a live-or-die struggle for them and apparently believe that by pure force of arms they can prevail. This war is different. Here is a typical quote from a former “Peace mom”
Barring decisive action by a third party (the European Union perhaps), the outcome of this is now becoming sadly predictable.
Complete annihilation of Lebanon, meaning: relentless bombing of anything that moves on the ground, well over a million refugees, most of them with no homes to return to;
If that fails, aerial confrontation with Iran; If that fails
(for example by Iran in turn escalating into Iraq), Nukes.
Israel (supported broadly buy its population) has raised the stakes to such a high level that it cannot back down without declaring defeat.
agree
Thanks for the Gore Vidal link, I hadn’t seen that yet… he is wonderful, as always.
marisacat,
the reason to care about the people of israel is because what is important is not that there is a proportional reserve of “pure” support, but that there are people that care about both. Only people that care about both are able to find diplomatic solutions to such thing, the whole, just care about one side fully, the other none, thing, is the heart of war.
madman,
if you see this… it’s google earth we need, if someone posts the data, I”LL make thep ointers and post them to the google earth bbs… this thing is free and uses all the google satelite imagery but better because it’s a stand alone application. you can mark things yourself and share them. It has beirut in high detail, but not the rest of lebanon…
thanks pyrrho. Ever so enlightening. You always forget I am an adult. And quite capable of assigning my ”care” allotment.
As I said, people are not monolithic – and I know that well. My godmother is German and I have spent time in Germany my entire life, from the 50s onward.
But I will let US cash [and I am a tax payer] “care” for Israel. I have had it with vicious war.
“Diplomacy” is not about caring. It is an arm of government.
Watch Out For Those Draft-Dodging Elitists…
because you never know where they’ll show up.
I See Stupid People: The JD Hayworth Edition
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