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Time to bring out CatWoman. And her whip… ;) 19 January 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, Abortion Rights, Democrats, France, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Iraq War, Sex / Reproductive Health.
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Right... she's not La Louche...

Well… since I called them out (Landrieu, “Mimi” Pelosi and Clinton) for the “Momma” business… I should post this on the issue from American Prospect.  I will snip out the quotes from the author’s own mother (described as a “dedicated second waver”):

“I still feel that the men in this world — who are about 50 percent of voters and humans in general — do NOT respond to the mommy image. In fact, they reject it, because it reminds them of their own smothering mothers. Just ask Daddy about this.”

And that would be part of it… not to over analyse this (I realise Pelosi was attempting to craft a political narrative, I just don’t have a high opinion of it) but are we called to kindergarten?  There was a whiff of that.

I caught Tammy Baldwin yesterday, a lesbian elected to the House from WI, at the  podium for the morning….  Low key, capable.  Some of the new legislators have stumbled at the podium, unused to putting in their time as the majority party.  Not Tammy:  In charge.   And lest I leave it out, a handsome tailored dark jacket with a slightly nipped waist… ;)   It was great to see her.

 As they troll the old ”story” of ‘kitchen to congress’… I wonder how much of the narrative has to do with this… And, let me pose the thought:  Can The Dems Get More Awkward?   I hope not.

It’s not an accident that one of the first bills in the Senate with a new Democratic majority was the Prevention First Act, a wide-ranging family-planning initiative. Rep. Louise Slaughter will follow next week with a similar bill described in one mouthful as a

“bipartisan, bicameral, pro-choice, pro-life innovative approach to reducing unintended pregnancies.”

Then, Reps. Rosa DeLauro and Tim Ryan [she is Catholic, he is Democrats for Life, I smell an eclesiastical lab rat - wearing a mitre, carrying the orb!  -Mcat], a pro-choice/pro-life duo, will reintroduce an omnibus family-planning and family-support bill with the lumbering title,

“The Reducing the Need for Abortions and Supporting Parents Act.”

Oh spare me!

Earlier this week I read that the French birthrate is now rising, in response to financial inducements and government support to families….  And, that fully 50% of births are out of wedlock.  There is little to no handwringing in France over this.

French officials hailed the 3 per cent rise as confirmation of the success of expensive schemes to encourage couples to produce more children, while also remaining in the workforce. French women now give birth at an average age of 30, and half the children are born outside marriage. Almost 50 per cent of the working population is female. The birthrate among immigrants generally matched that of native-born French.

Here, the mere mention that women (horrors, a full 50%, it was reported this week) might be without men causes long wheezing.  Woe is she.  ABC World News filed from the ”frantic news division” this week.  Women without men… and immediately they wailed “What about the children?”…. when none (as in NO CHILDREN) had been mentioned in the original report. 

Well yes, with no federal efforts at child support collection, little to no funded day care (what there is is so much less than could be had 25+ years ago)… no nationalised health care… I could go on.

Or, there is France and its inducements:

“French women are an exception because they are managing a high fertility rate along with a high rate of employment without heavy recourse to part-time working,” said Rachel Silvera, a Paris University demographer. “We had been afraid that with rising unemployment and longer studies, women would only have one child. In fact they have delayed having a baby, and then had two,” she said.

French governments began promoting childbirth more than a century ago after the stagnating, heavily rural population was overtaken by Germany’s and Britain’s. The birthrate has been climbing since a low point in 1994. Parents are helped by a system of allowances, free daycare and universal nursery schooling, cut-price transport and generous income tax reductions. [snip]

more to come… ;)

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Quick as a wink… I found the US out of wedlock birth rate… and where else, in an Edsall wheeze 37%.

The public will desert Democrats placing a disputed cultural or spending agenda above the broader public interest. This is especially true at a time of extreme uncertainty: lethal struggle in the Mideast, nuclear proliferation, mounting skepticism toward free trade, and a rising non-marital birthrate — now at 37 percent — that concerns moderate voters.

I am so sick of the cultural wars and the dispirited, collaborator’s game that the Dems play to the war.  Beyond old.

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UGH UPDATE, 7:00 am

It really did give me indigestion.  Both, Candy Crowley expounding and Chat Show Host Hillary announcing… as I was making coffee in the Pompeiian Red kitchen at 6:15 am.

So she is in.  The Exploratory Committee. Upbeat and cheery, but it felt forced.   We are to join her regularly, I guess on the creamy soft sofa she sat upon to announce (Chappaqua?  Manhattan retreat?  Million Dollar Golf Fairway Condo in Ireland?, who knows!), for chats.

Oh Spare Me… A couple years of “Mamma done tole me”.  With a tired beat.

Auntie Beeb version… ;)

CNN page on her announce

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UPDATE, 8:39 am

Earlier this am the news reported that with 3 more dead, 2 soldiers and one marine, the toll for January was 27 (iirc)… but this has some thru (full text so far at the BBC):

The US military says one of its helicopters has come down north-east of the Iraqi capital, Baghdad, killing all 13 people on-board.

The military did not say what caused the helicopter to crash.

The US has suffered several fatal helicopter crashes in Iraq since the invasion in 2003.

In December, four troops were killed when the helicopter they were travelling in crashed in the restive Western Anbar province.

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Comments»

1. supervixen - 19 January 2007

What the HELL is “uncertain” about babies being born out of wedlock? And how is such a thing REMOTELY comparable to nuclear proliferation and war in the Mideast?

This is INSANE!!!

It occurs to me that, now that it appears that we’re becoming a society engaged in eternal warfare, there’s even more political reason to force women to become baby factories. And to keep women subjugated economically, so they and their children will think of the military as a good choice. Cannon fodder, folks.

2. marisacat - 19 January 2007

well I agree. Baby production in the US, and denial of access to abortion is in furtherance of the State’s plans.

And cannon fodder is not what is being sought in France. A workforce to support the nation is. Thru beneficial, not welfare based but available to all citizens, benign inducements.

Plus France supplies Plan B in the lycees thru the public health nurse. It passed into law during one of my stays in the 90s. I loved reading in the press how they just swept the Catholic church to the side.

Abortions are covered in France under health care, to 20 weeks (iirc – as of a few years ago) and are done in hospitals. Not a shame game.

In the 90s friends of mine moved back to italy (he Italian she American) to have the second baby. Subsidized childcare at the eqivalent of 50 USD a month. They could not afford a second child here.

3. D. Throat - 19 January 2007

As of January 2007 Germany has started to PAY women to have more babies… but hey…why waste good money when you can just nail them to the cross….

announced a series of proposals to encourage more couples to have children.

They include a new form of state-funded child welfare support, whereby parents (either the mother or father) will be entitled to 67% of their previous incomes while staying at home, up to a maximum of 1,800 euros (£1,240; $2,160) per month.

The scheme is intended to be flexible, and it’s limited to a period of 10 months, with an additional two months for the other parent (usually the father). There are also plans to allow parents to offset up to 4,000 euros of childcare costs each year. But these measures still need to be passed into law, and they could face stiff opposition in parliament.

“It’s so important to have a family. I want to bring children into this world,” said Christel Champaen, 35, from Munich. She has two children, a seven-week-old baby boy and a four-year-old girl.

Christel used to work in an office, but she gave up her job when she became pregnant.

“My husband works, and I look after the children. I really wish that I could also work. I want to combine having a family with my career.”

She says the government should do more to encourage women who want to have children.

BTW Italy and Spain have two of the lowest birthrates eventhough they are two of the most Catholic countries… why… because they have the WORST family incentive laws in Europe…the all mighty Euro… beats the Almighty every time. It is embarrassing that in 2007 that Democrats for Life could but up such backwards ass regressive INEFFECTUAL repressive legislation… I thouhg the new Dems were suppose to be “reality” based.

4. D. Throat - 19 January 2007

“Keep Fear Alive”

5. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 January 2007

Tammy Baldwin rocks. LOVE her, another genuine lib from here in Cheeseland. Local coverage of her time with the gavel:

New leadership in the House of Representatives gave U.S. Rep. Tammy Baldwin her first turn with the gavel as speaker pro tem, holding the fort while Speaker Nancy Pelosi took a break.

“She said it was thrilling,” said Baldwin spokeswoman Jerilyn Goodman. “She said it was very exciting from a personal and parliamentary perspective.”

Baldwin, D-Madison, presided over a portion of the rowdy debate Thursday night on whether to send back to committee a bill cutting tax breaks for oil companies and also encouraging greater use of renewable energy. Baldwin cracked a smile a few times during her stint before returning the gavel to Pelosi for the vote on final passage, when the bill cutting subsidies was approved 264-163.

6. XP - 19 January 2007

A small factor of forcing women to become baby factories also has to play on race. Because the truth is it is the “white, western” birthrate that is in “crisis,” but when comes to minorities, it is a whole different matter. What is the biggest fear about undocumented immigrates – birth rates that are “out of control” and in need of “population control.”

You won’t be hearing it from the politicians, because they send their minions to spread the fear – in the 90’s white supremacist were shrilling that the white race was going to be extinct because of low birth rates. Now that we are in 2000s, it is OK to put people like Pat Buchanan on TV talking about the end of the white race dominance because there is a low birthrate. Here are some of his highlights from his book, State of Emergency, as to why white women should be baby factories:

America faces an existential crisis. If we do not get control of our borders, by 2050 Americans of European descent will be a minority in the nation their ancestors created and built. No nation has ever undergone so radical a demographic transformation and survived.

“The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted by a different people.”

Had Francis said this of Chinese civilization and the Chinese people, it would have gone unnoted. But he was suggesting Western civilization was superior and that only Europeans could have created it. If Western peoples perish, as they are doing today, Francis was implying, we must expect our civilization to die with us. No one would deny that when the Carthaginians perished, Carthaginian civilization and culture perished. But by claiming the achievements of the West for Europeans, Francis had passed beyond the bounds of tolerance. He was summarily fired.

I guess this argument didn’t work and it looks like they are spinning another way.

7. wu ming - 20 January 2007

having seen the bill, even with mediocre insurance taking up some of the load, for my daughter’s delivery and our brief hospital stay, i don’t really understand how anybody can afford to have kids in this country. and god forbid anything goes the slightest bit out of routine, or you have complications.

the clearest sign that the “family values” folks don’t give a damn about anything beyond oppressing others is the lack of decent, universal and affordable health care. even natalists, i would have assumed, would want to encourage births, but they’re really more about wallowing sadistically in the suffering of the “wicked” than actually promoting a higher birthrate, if it cuts into the profit margins.

damn, what i wouldn’t give to at least bring california up to france’s level of sanity on these matters, quality of life, etc.

8. supervixen - 20 January 2007

wu ming: my take on it is that the “pro-life” crowd isn’t even interested in “punishing the wicked” – what they really want to do is CONTROL WOMEN. There are a whole lot of people who are deeply threatened by the notion that women should be in charge of their own reproductive systems and participate in society as equals to men. To them, women should be under the control of the men in society. This is all about control, not morality.

Marisa: I’m not sure what to think about Pelosi/Clinton pushing the “mommy” imagery. I read the article you cited. I generally agree with the author, but I think our society simply isn’t at the stage yet where enough of our citizens will look at a strong, intelligent, accomplished woman and judge her in the same way that they’d judge a man. They still measure her against the traditional female template of “wife and mother”. If she doesn’t measure up in that regard she’s somehow insufficient. In national politics that’s a problem. So people like Pelosi and Clinton are doing what they need to do. In some ways it’s a cop-out – a concession to traditional mores. But in other ways it’s subversive – it’s a good thing to show that “mommies” aren’t just mommies, that women’s lives aren’t over as soon as they have kids. The problem is that the vast majority of women can’t afford the costs – in time, money, and emotional stress – of juggling a family and a career. This is why I have mixed feelings about seeing Pelosi showing off in a sea of kidlets – it’s almost like she’s posing next to a Rolls Royce. “Look, I’m rich enough to have all this!”

I guess I’d rather not criticize P. and C. too much for their choices. I remember when Thatcher was in power, and so-called liberals and lefties in the UK were mocking her for not being feminine enough, for not paying enough attention to her children, for having a wimpy husband who let her do whatever she wanted, etc. The war against women crosses all political boundaries, alas.

9. marisacat - 20 January 2007

I am not criticising them for their choices. For one, the public persona they are pushing has little to nothing to do with their real lives. It has to do wtih entrenched American mythology.

Hillary was a litigator at a well known, hard driving Mid West law firm. We used to make jokes at my law firm that we’d like ot get her stream of secretaries (our take: she had a hard time keeping secretaries) in a room alone for 5 mins. We’d get the dirt, LOL.

And Pelosi has been in the political game her entire life. I posted some truths about the fundraising run out of her home for close to 40 years. It is 3 blocks north and west of me. the entire main, ground floor is Reception areas. The Pelosis are prodigious fundraisers. One reason she is Speaker. Which after the trail of them I have seen, she surely deserved elevation.

I certainly supported her run for Min Leader. Absolutely. Most around wanted the more conservative Dems elevated. I thought some small wrinkles of liberalism and some hard hitting ward politics was the very best we could get. Of what was on offer.

I understand they are crafting political narratives. But they are regressing “the story” not advancing it… and trying to pull the nation with them.

Just as Carter endlessly pushes the small town white ministerial Sunday School teacher persona. Rather than the naval commander of a nuclear sub.

It gets old.

America is stuck and they are fucking pouring the concrete.

10. marisacat - 20 January 2007

Oh Thatcher was a Dominatrix. Reagan was utterly in her thrall. The Falklands War just was the springboard for so much.

What a shame.

11. supervixen - 20 January 2007

Don’t get me wrong, I’m no fan of Thatcher’s. But it was very interesting to me how the so-called “liberals” and “left” descended so easily to criticisms of her as a female.

You can see the same thing with the reaction to Ann Coulter.

As I like to say: “Misogyny is hating Ann Coulter more than is necessary.”

12. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 January 2007

the public persona they are pushing has little to nothing to do with their real lives. It has to do wtih entrenched American mythology.

All of the posing w/ kidlets is the female version of Kerry going duck hunting. Bad stagecraft to demonstrate that the politician is “just folks”.

13. Miss Devore - 20 January 2007

Does anyone know what an “exploratory committee” does? My sense is that if you admit to “exploratory committee”, you can somehow give up with grace if it registers little excitement, whereas if you announce your “campaign”,with the same results, then you have made an “unsuccessful bid.”

14. marisacat - 20 January 2007

At the time Nancy was tapped to run for the House (and to muscle out possible candidates well to her left) she had been the CADP chair. Among other “jobs”. She basically was a principal player in the Burton machine. Which is fine, that is what politics is. The ‘kitchen to congress’ thing is just a story.

Mostly I am entertained to see the same Italian heavies who rallied around Alito (such bad news) right there behind Pelosi.

Well Thatcher really was lambasted as many in the UK knew she was rather different than the faux (but n ecessary for the sell job) aristo she posed as.

The Irish nicknamed her based on her Governess persona, Miss Maggie.

Yes honestly I don’t see that HIllary will get much different treatment than Kerry did. Obama will come in for his turn. Too many flimsy crafted stories… and how long can Edwards be the bland white 19th c philanthropist christian welfare office manager.

Its the falseness. And that the Dems are the handmaiden party. They will never really get respect. Esp as they gut their vaunted ethics bill so it is mostly appearances.

The honeymoon is still on. Should be a savage couple of years.

15. ms_xeno - 20 January 2007

I have lost track of the number of times I’ve posted links in feminist spaces which point out that electoral reforms like proportional representation increase the number of women in office– only to be greeted with silence, or worse, from the DP faithful.

So it’s not really “Women first.” It’s “The Franchise first.” Now the Pelosi has the crown, we know that The System Works, so who cares about the millions of women who can’t run, or who are too disgusted to vote ? We Got Ours. Sit down and shut up. >:

16. marisacat - 20 January 2007

yes… Italy got a transexual, post operative, communist in the last election.

But our system is rigged. Henrik Hertzberg has written on the rigging we are stuck with. Goes back to protecting the slave states, from the beginning.

And certainly ’00 was the Big Chance to look at the Electoral College, which is the big game to protect the old slave and slave voting states. And we sure passed on the chance.

17. bayprairie - 20 January 2007

SV said

The war against women crosses all political boundaries, alas.

and racial boundaries as well.

i’m still fuming about pat buchanan’s quotes above. guess asshats like him’ll soon be pusing the passage of new comstock laws. you know, after they bowl the dempins over on reproductive rights.

18. marisacat - 20 January 2007

Hello all

Just to alert… having mouse problems. The trusty old Belknap died and the back up that cam with the last new keyboard is in short a mess. No wonder I put it away for an “emergency” back up. At least it let me get back on after Belknap The Wonder Mouse died.

So I have to go buy a mouse tomorrow. Things maybe spotty. I tried to post about the terrible death count in Iraq… so many in a 24 hour period… but ugh navigating the mouse was too hard. Could not click and highlight.. It has a barely functioning rubber ball. LOL…

Just FYI….

19. Miss Devore - 20 January 2007

(I read the first two sentences and thought you were having rodent problems because your cat died.)

Sadly, the US & Iraq casualties will still be dead tomorrow. Are we poised to break monthly 2006 records the first month of 2007?

More attacks against British forces in Basra..remember when British occupation was something of a “model” compared to US style, a few years back? And Basra is a place where the Brits have stated their intention to leave, though I recall recent claims that PMCs will be subbing.

20. supervixen - 20 January 2007

“the morning sun is shining like a red rubber ball” :-) I think it’s gonna be alright….

21. wu ming - 21 January 2007

the more i think about it, i suspect that the constant appeals to misogyny are more about controlling men than controlling women or their bodies. the pro-lifers and dominionists use the simmering RW wannabe patriarchs’ resentment of the past 3 decades’ (hell, past several centuries, in some cases) worth of slipping control over women to manipulate those men (and what women by into the patriarchy) into supporting said pro-lifers and dominionists politically.

like the lost cause of the confederacy, the lost cause of the patriarchy is a fantastic method of controlling RW men.

not that it doesn’t have all manner of real-life consequences for women (for all of us who suffer from or reject patriarchy, really), bnut i wonder if that’s not the point of it, ultimately.

oh, and marisa: this – and how long can Edwards be the bland white 19th c philanthropist christian welfare office manager – is about the best description of edwards that i have read, anywhere. brava.

22. wu ming - 21 January 2007

to be clear, re. above, that is not to say that the patriarchy isn’t alive and well, just that it has lost some ground over time.

23. marisacat - 21 January 2007

ooo thanks on the Edwards.. ;). Just a real tragedy it is no farther forward than that.

ugh… I think there is some real truth in the patriarchy trap for Winger Men. Oh what a mess we are in. As the Dems delight in their win.

I don’t read David Ignatius, he drives me insane, but in a terrible nasty slam from Blankley on Rahm at Real Clear Politics (I can dislike BOTH Rahm and Tony Blankely, pretty easily too!), he uses two whole grafs from the Ignatius piece on Rahm of earlier this week. Rahm flat out said, no plans to do anything about Health Care. At all. Too big and too troublesome.

Feel sorry for any voter who thought the Dems might. Or who were promised help on Health Care would be a consequence of the Dems gaining power… which is just what the Dems did… all thru the nasty months of the election.

24. bayprairie - 21 January 2007

…the pro-lifers and dominionists use the simmering RW wannabe patriarchs’ resentment…

:::snip:::

…like the lost cause of the confederacy, the lost cause of the patriarchy is a fantastic method of controlling RW men…

i’ll agree with these bits if “RW” is stricken. including “RW” seems to imply, at least to me, that the evils of gender oppression might possibly be limited only to Right Wing political extremists. its still as common as dirt in this world, and in this country. and like the democratic party these days, its got a very big tent.

25. NYCee - 21 January 2007

Hear, hear for that prospect piece.

Didnt catch your info on Landrieu, Marisa. To me she is ben nelson, the female version. Blech. Lots of poor folk in LA, and that is the best they can do or get? It boggles.

Well, congrats on your mouse. I braved the bitter cold and finally got my ass over to tekserve to replace my keyboard today, so all systems are go again.

Did you catch any of the Carter 30 year (since president) thing on cspan all day? He is pounding on the Palestinian thing still, quite a bit. Out there all by his lonesome.

26. wu ming - 21 January 2007

not limited to, but centered on the right, bayprairie. but i concede the general point, especially having watched it play out over and over again on the blogs.

then again, my sense is that if you find yourself being moved by that particular dogwhistle, you’re pretty much right wing anyways, party labels notwithstanding.

27. marisacat - 21 January 2007

NYCee

Oh back a couple posts, not sure which one, I had cuaght Mary Landrieu on with Tweety. Things are fine in NO and she is just thrilled Brangelina are comin’ to town. Gag.

Well hopefully I make it out tomorrow. I think there is a Best Buy not too far from here that should have a Mouse for the computer…or a Circuit City in the other direction…

28. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 January 2007

good point about the patriarchy thing. it’s kind of a corrolary to gay-baiting, call it cuckold-baiting. Another way of controlling a man by calling him weaker than women. Like what Chris Matthews did to a supine John Edwards.

29. NYCO - 21 January 2007

I hope they all spend each other to death.

30. marisacat - 21 January 2007

LOL That is pretty much my hope. That and slash each other bloody.

Re-Match!

31. ms_xeno - 21 January 2007

The new improved majority has no motivation to do shit about healthcare. They’re already covered, they are lavishly endowed by Big Pharma and Big Insurance, and they know full well that their base lacks the will to punish them. Really, some things are that simple. The fury that the base should unleash against them is reserved for those who won’t be part of the base anymore. >:

32. marisacat - 21 January 2007

well the last real chance was in the 70s. But Kennedy put his weight and the majority behind HMO legislation. Selling it as the first block of a nationalised health care.

To be frank, Bush knew exactly whete to go for cover on NCLB.

Pretty simple, over long ago. Johnson was on the record, he could barely shame the nation to care for its elderly.

33. ms_xeno - 21 January 2007

Speaking of the ’70s, I’m suddenly flashing back on some obscure cop show in which a lunch wagon at the local college was run by a Robin Hood type. He gave out stolen money to the needy, wrapped up in sandwiches that the “customer” ordered by a special coded name, so he’d know why they were there.

I’m beginning to think that’s our only hope. Some low-to-mid-level bureaucratic Robin Hoods in the big companies who will band together and covertly steal from their own superiors and smuggle the goods and services to those in peril. It makes about as much sense to hope for that as to hope for a change in the non-existent hearts of most politicians. >:

34. bayprairie - 21 January 2007

one sandwich to go please!!!!!!

NYCee said

Did you catch any of the Carter 30 year (since president) thing on cspan all day? He is pounding on the Palestinian thing still, quite a bit. Out there all by his lonesome.

and it looks like someone(s) is fighting back with what appears to be a rather nasty attempt to swiftboat him.

google news search of “carter” “nazi” “SS” “guard”

what was it that the romans said? one witness is no witness?

35. marisacat - 21 January 2007

oh forgot to say, yes I did see quite a lot of the seminar or panels from UGA at Athens. Loved it.

And I loved that Jimmy called out the panel for 3 out of 4 claiming they had not “fully” read his book… LOL. I could see that Miss Maddy (Albright) did nto like being called out… ;)

What a hoot.

Oh yeah they are after him.

One of the worst things Bush did was ram that resolution thru the UN about anti semitism. Pure sop to hardliners in Israel and fucked AIPAC wingers and MEI loons and so on.

What a shame.

36. bayprairie - 21 January 2007

got beads?

at tomorrow’s march for life in washington DC:

nearly 100 priests (will) hear confessions

i suggest anyone living in washington city proper, or its environs, keep careful watch on their children during the day.

this concludes the catholic priests for life advisory!

also, everyone’s favorite (from the pope on down!) anti-choice priest, Fr. Frank Pavone, will be putting in personal appearances and signing autographs

what a guy!

37. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 January 2007

Carter could have just rested on his laurels, as most of our so-called “leaders” do. Some nice photo-ops at some charity events, stuff like that, yet here he is, opening his last years in public life to take shots from one of the most vicious and unforgiving and brutal special interest groups in our political system.

It’s truly sad, and a sign of how far gone we are, that he is getting so little support.

38. marisacat - 21 January 2007

The whole thing makes (winger Pro Life, Dem party cave, full-on wars, both parties collabprate and on and on) it so clear we have gone nuts. As Dems bellow at regaining power.

Not sure i can find the link with wretched Barely Working Mouse but Madman sent a link that Michigan leg made adultery (it does require penetration, can you imagine the trials?) a
crime. With a sentence attached.

Lordy.

39. marisacat - 21 January 2007

Link to the MI story

yes First degree felony crime.

40. ms_xeno - 21 January 2007

bayprairie:

one sandwich to go please!!!!!!

Can I offer you some discounted/generic “Canadian-style Fries” with that ? :D

41. missdevore - 21 January 2007

hey, I did read the Carter book. Most of the critics never address the substance of the book. Most of the freaking out is about the usage of the a-word. And daring to suggest looking at the issue in light of fairness. And in that respect, I don’t see where Carter is particularly taking sides, except in the sense that the Israelis are the ones in the position of power.

Interestingly, Carter cited a poll in which 60+% of Israelis favored direct talks with Hamas. Sounds like the 60%+% percent of Americans who now oppose the Iraq war, but strangely, their government never reflects that position.

.


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