Sy Hersh is UP in The New Yorker… 25 February 2007
Posted by marisacat in Iran, Iraq War, Israel/AIPAC, Seymour Hersh.trackback
A snip from The New Yorker [thanks to Madman for the email!]:
[I]n the past year, the Saudis, the Israelis, and the Bush Administration have developed a series of informal understandings about their new strategic direction. At least four main elements were involved, the U.S. government consultant told me. First, Israel would be assured that its security was paramount and that Washington and Saudi Arabia and other Sunni states shared its concern about Iran.
Second, the Saudis would urge Hamas, the Islamist Palestinian party that has received support from Iran, to curtail its anti-Israeli aggression and to begin serious talks about sharing leadership with Fatah, the more secular Palestinian group. (In February, the Saudis brokered a deal at Mecca between the two factions. However, Israel and the U.S. have expressed dissatisfaction with the terms.)
The third component was that the Bush Administration would work directly with Sunni nations to counteract Shiite ascendance in the region.
Fourth, the Saudi government, with Washington’s approval, would provide funds and logistical aid to weaken the government of President Bashir Assad, of Syria. The Israelis believe that putting such pressure on the Assad government will make it more conciliatory and open to negotiations. Syria is a major conduit of arms to Hezbollah. The Saudi government is also at odds with the Syrians over the assassination of Rafik Hariri, the former Lebanese Prime Minister, in Beirut in 2005, for which it believes the Assad government was responsible. Hariri, a billionaire Sunni, was closely associated with the Saudi regime and with Prince Bandar. (A U.N. inquiry strongly suggested that the Syrians were involved, but offered no direct evidence; there are plans for another investigation, by an international tribunal.) [snip]
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UPDATE, 12:10 pm
The CNN/Late Edition interview iwth Hersh is up in transcripts… You have to wade thru al Rubaie, then Madeleine Albright (shiver) and Kissinger (double shiver) to get to Hersh, here is a snip:
[S]o I think if it goes, and one doesn’t know, it is going to — you know, I have been writing the same story for a year, sort of like I would call up my friends and say, it is Chicken Little, you know, the sky is falling, in the last year. And now, obviously, it seems to be much more serious. It is much more intent.
My own instinct is, Wolf, that this president is not going to leave office without doing something about Iran. And he could always negotiate, it’s always on the table. And he keeps on refusing to negotiate. He keeps on saying he will not. And he keeps on talking tough.
And maybe we just have to really listen to what he is saying. And I don’t know what can stop him because he is president. [snip]
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Tags in the Bob Johnson tell the story, for now:
LOL. I just went over and took a look at that diary. The word “socialist” was removed from the tags. It’s now “urban legend” and “urban myth.”
He was out of his league in that diary. The last posts by ?Spit and ?vlabor took him down, essentially. Johnson belongs to a union, my ass. He didn’t know what he was talking about. This guy is anti-union to the core.
Funny, that’s what it sounded like Earth to Meg, an urban myth. I’m surprised that a bevy of FPers weren’t in that diary demanding ‘links’ and ‘back-up’ and calling it ‘nonsense’ – lol! But then we know that the diary rules, made up as they go along, only apply to the ‘others’.
Great, more assassinations and violence. As if it has worked so far.
Crooks & Liars has Hersh up.
Strange goings on. Back in December, WaPost ran an article claiming that Cheney was the driving force behind an effort to tilt the US strategy in Iraq in favor of the Shiites. Now, from Hersh, we are essentially being told that Cheney is leading the clandestine wing of an operation to support Sunni interests across the region as a counterbalance to the growing power of Shiites engendered by the power shift in Iraq.
I guess I could see someone having a fundamental change of opinion in three months, but only so long as that someone was not Dick Cheney. It could also be argued that Cheney is shooting for separate strategies in and outside of Iraq, but the Hersh piece emphasizes the implications of this “sea change” for the dynamics within Iraq, suggesting that there is not such a neat division.
Not sure what to believe here.
Found this link via Real History Lisa at BMT:
the pic with a cross to the left of Hersh–better preaching!
mctipsystagger–are you ambassador?
all: please czech out an entirely new writer to the b-sphere, Nuzorro, whose site “Bullpen” is on my blogroll at Je blague. Haven’t been able to explain the crosspost thang to him.
rain,sun,overcast in the South Bay.
“AIPAC demands action on Iran”
Reminds me of Jimmy Carter’s response to a question as to whether or not he thinks a Democratic Congress will achieve peace in the middle east.
His answer was blunt.
“No.”
Was from a clip played by Stephanopoulis, today, from a panel Carter was on yesterday.
Carter then told Stephanopoulis that there may be a handful in Congress who will speak up for taking “a more balanced positon on the ME” but from what he sees there is nothing there to make the change, they are scared of being called antisemitic, as he has; it is political suicide even to call for the debate.
And there we have it … another slim installment eeked out from the extremely thin volume of Voices from the Third Rail, voiced on this occasion by Jimmy Carter.
Bravo, Jimmy Carter. Bravo.
Foreign devils in the Iranian mountains, by M K Bhadrakumar:
CS (consistent strategy?) or CT?
Iran+AIPAC+Dems. And what Sy is saying. And RealHistoryLisa.
Color me ill at ease.
sy
is grand but he hasn’t found much
concrete to add to his persian gulf alerts
in a year or so –as he suggests himself —-
this iran biz strikes me as a huge inflamed corn
on uncle’s ….imaginary third foot
not gonna get tended to folks…
sure I like the notion
white house walls are covered by motivational posters
saying :
‘ Iran or bust ‘
i just don’t buy it
and yet by 09
i suspect more then a few
do nothing peace fraudsters
among the congo dems
will be claiming
gladly :
” a catastrophe has been averted.”
and mostly because
they have been vigilent stalwart nyetski saying
stand up guyz
okay….
next diversion please
——————————–
—-out of iraq ….
NOW
out of the middle east….
TOMORROW —–
—————————-
NYCee-interesting to hear that Carter thinks Gore is most qualified for the prezidency–does he think only a Dem presidency will do it, if the Congress won’t? Would like to know where Gore is on I/P.
Dems need to know how to run on 3 rails. It is insane to go business as usual on I/P. As insane as contemplating war with Iran.
I guess it is time to crank out some more cranky emails to my sub paygrade senators and rep –
Dear Hill, Chuck, Carolyn:
NO Iran attack. NONE. We are not falling for it.
Sick and tired, still, of the AIPAC pandering. STOP IT.
And President (yes, I will say PRESIDENT) Carter is RIGHT about y/our behavior on the ME. Everyone in the world, and increasingly, the American populace knows this is true. You wrongly and dangerously support the imbalanced view, the AIPAC fed view, and it is hurting AMERICANS, as well as Israelis and, finally, the Palestinians. You are blundering in this regard, as all of you did with the IWR vote and support for preventive war.
STOP!
Sincerely,
NYCee
(Er, something to that effect.)
carter & gore have already proven their incompetence haven’t they? I mean, who cares?
Carter will always be a team player to the end. I suppose we should be grateful for his re-examination of the I/P situation and not expect any more miracles from him so far as breaking the bounds of a stifling political orthodoxy.
When I see that sort of attitude from folks half or a third his age, it’s much more troubling to me. And it’s everywhere. We lose over and over again in what they claim must forever be a “winner-take-all system,” and they are vicious to anyone who dares to try and change to course of the stream. A hundred times more vicious than the Republicans bother to be with their own “extreme” wing. The GOP buys off its “extremists,” throws them sops and compensations here and there. The DP tears its “extremists” to shreds, after picking their pockets and mining their votes– once it’s clear that hollow grandstanding doesn’t work for everyone on the ground the way that it used to. Then they whine about how they can’t get all the votes counted, and accept assistance from groups like the Green Party as their god-given right. But there is never any gratitude for the outsiders that try to help voters in the face of the DP’s self-inflicted wounds, only more contempt, more shakedowns, more abuse.
But Carter will have nothing to say about that. No point in waiting up.
byup. be grateful for the openings carter & gore provide. but they’re not the answer.
missdevore:
Well, here’s my take:massive people power is needed, first and foremost. Congress, leaders need a huge push, as they are stuck and where they are stuck is way way behind – and no pol will dare touch that third rail unless he/she feels the hot licks of massive popular support at his arse.
Gore has been pretty quiet on this front. Gore was along with Clinton, who wasnt too bad, but he certainly was too late. Now, AIPAC has had six plus years to get more emboldened and entrenched, with the neoconned majority in power, Im afraid. Congress, which doesnt fight them when weaker, can only be more cowed by them when they are stronger.
Given this, Gore, who hasnt done much third railing, will really need to get vocal, get smart and get tough on this issue (mastodon, center of nation, USA) if he does decide to jump in the race. Toute suite. If he were prez, he would just have to make his bud, Carter, an envoy, have to. That would be third rail in itself, of course, which means good for the peace process. (Even before Carter’s “inflammatory” book, he was forced off candidate Kerry’s list of possible brokers. A slight and swift pinky, not arm twist. Kerry folded like an envelope).
Again, they will need to be supported by massive emails, protests.
Think DK netrootzia inc will mobilize this? Have the forsight, get in the forefront? I dont think I even saw a mention of Carter’s book on the front page, but then, I dont check it out much. Just a feeling I have, backed up by prior (disappointing) experience.
It will have to come from other net and grass roots mass action. But it must happen, or I am afraid we are in for more of this miserable status quo.
Well to be frank, people who give to the Democratic party without being aware, and all of the Dems who wnt to sleep during Clinton deserve to be taken. By now. The signs are unmistakable.
On some things Carter tried, from wtihin his world. Like the book. Frankly I think a lot about the towel snap that Conyers ran on the book from before it was published. Completely safe seat…. but he had to attack the title of the book. As he crumpled to Nancy’s whip. I mean, get real COnyers. Dealt himself out.
As far as I will go on Carter, on some things he tried.. And Roselynn knows more about health care, us and globally, then Hillary could ever be really bothered to learn.
Whoever is going to be elected is going to come from a already select group, even if they do navigate 73 – 76 as Carter did, running a quiet semi insurgency, going alone a lot of the way…. But of course he is within the mold.
I am sorry I jsut don’t see anything right now on the screen that is indicative of any real change. No real insurgent, no real independent. ALL of the rhetoric, including Nader, is old – or so long ago muted that it is not worth my lifting my head (even tho I pay attention). Endless retread work.
It will require someone who can break thru.
Here’s a nice creepy part from that Hersh-Blitzer interview:
So let’s see if I understand what Hersh say’s is going on here: Cheney-Bush is covertly funding at least three Al Qaeda jihadi groups, thru Saudi middlemen, to attack Hezbullah in Lebanon.
Gee, it makes one wonder how many other Al Qaeda operations Cheney-Bush have set up thru Saudi middlemen and bankrolled in the Past 6.5 years??
Mcat:
…It will require someone who can break thru.
Someone(s), damnit !! 😀
Alexander Cockburn alert, for those so inclined.
He will be the guest on Cspan’s Q & A at 8:00 PM tonight. Cspan 1. It gives, as topic, just “Rumsfeld” in my Time-Warner on-screen guide.
Just read that Bob Johnson diary. It’s a variation on a story I can remember hearing and reading for a very long time, 25 years or more. Sometimes it’s a bakery, sometimes a bookstore, any sort of establishment that can fall under the Mom and Pop label. In fact, I do remember reading about one such real incident in NYC in a Village Voice article, so this sort of thing actually does happen from time to time, but I don’t believe Johnson’s. It’s too pat and frankly, there’s no reason he can’t provide details like the name of the bakery, where it was located, etc. It reads like Astroturf of the sort that was constantly issued during the Reagan years, in fact I have a vague (possibly inaccurate) memory of RR relating just such a sad, no doubt bogus tale.
Also, another TV view, clipped from the far fringe.
Cspan, Washington Journal, MANANA (that’s Monday) at 7:30 AM, guest will be the ultra scary peacenik Dem candidate for prez, Mike Gravel.
Im looking forward to hearing from him a bit more. I hope he articulates well the common sense and moral case for antiwarmongering.
Considering what we normally hear, this is NOT it. Done RARE. From his speech at the DNC winter mtg this month:
~snip~
paine, I would be a skeptic, but for Bush.
And it just stands to reason, he wants to use a nuclear bomb if he can before leaving office. For one, it has danced around in most if not all administrations.
He knows that his spot in history is hard wired, forever, if he does that. Right now he is set, but not as set in concrete for history…
So much of war, for America, is display. When Dayan went to Vietnam in the late sixties, that was his take, we waged war to remind the world… thsi is who we are. Don’t bother us.
I would guess that in their mind (not mine, but theirs) a similar time.
And of course they are all friggin’ nutters.
I agree his rhetoric is very very good. For one thing Granny D would not be with him. (if you can believe it Granny D used to post diaries – not many, but a few – at Kos)
But how long can he carry it, right now the most select of select are hearing him.
All speed to him, and i Hope he can hold on for 6 months or more.
Well, “someone/s” starts with social movements, the people en masse.
While that humongous pointillist (millions of people as points) painting is yet to hang a huge mural in the sky, I am only appreciative of Jimmy Carter willing to be there, virtually alone among elected officials present and past in speaking (third rail) truth to power on addressing (sanely) the mideast peace process. He was also involved in the Geneva Convention talks in 2004.
that’s right, granny d was there for Gravel at the winter mtg, I believe. nice.
Jesus Christ, Bob Johnson, thanks for the warning about union action killing small businesses. (So timely! So relevant!) It’s not small shops’ workers clamoring to get unionized that’s killing our mom n pops, its the big box chains that can afford the ever escalating obscene rents in Manhattan. A dose of SOCIALIST rent regulation would be a nice antidote, imo.
They are killing my view, too.
Did anyone see Kissinger on CNN today? The man is barely alive and breathing but he had just enough energy to point the finger regarding Iraq’s trouble at Clinton.
Too pathetic for words.
Oscar Thread: In case anyone else is watching too… 😉
DT, the Kissinger transcript is in the smae link as Hersh.
Here it is:
Two stories in the news about Iraqi President Jalal Talabini:
Yesterday:
More from Juan Cole on US air forces bombing areas of SE Baghdad late last night:
from a previous link:
hmm I just made it ot the end of the Hersh article. What a hoot! such mild owrds from Wyden.
sigh… probably thought it was a big deal when he voted against Negroponte for hmmm iirc it was Amb to Iraq. One of only two.
cannot rmemeber the vote for his big intel job. Lost in the sludge of connivance.
Ewww… Wyden. Don’t rub it in.
Blumenauer did some bogus “meet-the-public” thing today. Didn’t go. OR Pwogs have nothing to threaten him with, and everyone knows it, all around. Bradbury has demonstrated his hostility to the GP and Indies more than once, toothless though they already were. Dems on the ground have no problem with it, so I don’t see any reason why I should drag my butt out of the house to kiss up to their lukewarm idea of savior.
Negroponte comes off as as sort of a noble figure with a newfound conscience in Hersh’s telling.
Like Negroponte might have gotten roped into being the US bagman for death squads once or twice back in Nicaruagua (and Baghdad?), but he refused to do it a third time for Cheny-Bush’s excellent new AQ jihadi funding covert adventures.
well Hersh is not without the weak points. He always pulls his punches on Israel. Over AG he said nothing like that could happen in the israeli prisons.
Geesh get real.
But … I got “reporting” off the Negroponte segments, but absolutely someone not aware could totally miss the whole…. Mysef, I think he is utterly craven.
and likely deeply involved along with Cambrone in the killing of Calipari.
Well, I read it more that Negroponte thinks they’re choosing the wrong side, and I think it’s no coincidence that there are so many more reports of Shi’a death squads beginning after his time there. Hell, I even agree with him if that’s the case. The Wahaabi/Sunni nutballs scare me more than the “leave us the fuck alone” Shi’a nutballs.
Of course, if we were smart we just stay the fuck away and start seriously working on getting off the petroleum teat.
Marisacat:
Cambrone? or Cambone (Steve) the pentagon chief of intel/special ops?
Never heard much detail about a specific/possible link of C with the Segrina G/Calipari shooting incident. Please elaborate.
Cambone.. sorry … a while ago.
Well it just should not hve happened. I thought it was done as a warning and a kill shot. Well on Dkos you could not even speculate that it was an assassination job/attempt.
A vietnam era special forces I used to correspond with felt very strongly that was the best explanation. But also that the “scene” had been very badly handled.
He thought the fact the car remained as evidence indicated a very messy take down. SHooting Calipari the way they did indicated great disrespect.
I never thought it was some stray bullet. And the story was as messy as the hideous Jessica Lynch produced lies that rolled out.. til bits of truth rolled out.
Sgrena knew too much about fallujah.