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Shilling for the party… 24 July 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2004 Election, 2006 Mid Terms, 2008 Election, Big Box Blogs, California / Pacific Coast, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, la morte de St Germain Dog - the best the BLAHgers had, Political Blogs, U.S. House, U.S. Senate.
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HEY hey... how many candidates did you shill for toda?

Should the DailyKos be Subject to the Federal Election Commission?

Written by John Bambenek
Published July 23, 2007

Today I filed an Federal Election Commission (FEC) complaint against Kos Media, LLC., better known as DailyKos.com. I allege that they operate as a political committee and are therefore subject to FEC rules.

I first thought of this complaint during the Cindy Sheehan debacle over at Daily Kos, where Cindy pledged to run as an independent against Nancy Pelosi, and the Daily Kos basically turned on her. While some conservatives took great delight in this, I really didn’t care because it’s politics as usual. The right has thrown their fair share of people under the bus for not drinking the Kool-aid too.

However, the statement that the DailyKos was about electing Democrats stuck with me. I always assumed it was a standard left-wing group blog spouting the latest and greatest in left-wing diatribe. However, the statement that the blog exists to get Democrats elected is repeated in various places around the site, including statements by Kos himself.

Federal Election Commission rules apply for organizations that spend or contribute an equivalent of $1,000 per year in trying to influence elections for federal office. DailyKos is owned by Kos Media, a company, which makes it fit the definition of an organization. It surely spends at least $1,000 per year in hosting and based on what they charge (and get) for advertising, their support of candidates is certainly worth over $1,000 per year. Lastly, their self-identified purpose is to influence elections in the Democrats favor. They fit the criteria. [snip]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks to D Throat in the previous thread (see his/her several comments)… for linking to BLog Critics and the Bambenek post ;)

What do you think?  FEC should get on the Dkos / Markos ass? 

I certainly have long thought so.  Further, post 2004 election when Kos declared it a Democratic site, dedicated to the election of Democrats, I was not the one to raise it in threads… several did.  I did post there and at LSF he should BANNER that it is a Democratic party aligned site.

I say:  Be up front.  Why not [snigger, we can guess, FEC issues]

Kos and his tied in Blahgs have long been product enhancement, product endorsement scams.  In my opinion. I am not have not been a devotee of the site for years (UID 97 and an observer, surely) but I can remember housekeeping posts from Markos, to the FP, exhorting Dems in congress to pungle up their mandatory donations to a congressional elections kitty.  Names, amounts owed, amounts they have chipped in, etc.  Just a job for Rahm.  Or Reid and Shumer.

He surely organises to influence elections, by his own admission.

Go Bambenek.  Go for it.

******************************

UPDATE, 9:45 am

From the thread, Sabrina Ballerina update, Adam B (who, iirc handled issues of bloggers before the FEC for Kos/aligned blogs) is at the Blog Critics site in debate with Bambenek:

Sabrina Ballerina

Adam B arguing his case on Bambeneck’s blog:

#17 — July 24, 2007 @ 00:22AM — Adam B.

John, the “reform” groups explicitly argued before the FEC in the FiredUp case that “an organization whose stated purpose is to be the functional equivalent of a partisan campaign organization — to elect Democratic candidates and to solicit contributions for such candidates — does not qualify for the press exemption.”

Every single commissioner on the FEC rejected this argument, and agreed that FiredUp was indeed a press entity.

Moreover, the “compensation” issue only applies to being compensated by campaigns for the blogging. The FEC’s explanation of the regulations make clear that even if a campaign paid a blogger to perform technical/consulting services, the blogger’s personal blogging for which he wasn’t being paid didn’t count as a contribution/expenditure.

John, I fought long and hard alongside the folks from RedState to get these exemptions in place. The FEC could not have been more clear in 2005-06 as to what the new rules were. Please read them.

************

#18 — July 24, 2007 @ 00:23AM — John Bambenek [URL]
Adam-

I read the 2005 advisory opinion and it involves a site that doesn’t (unlike Daily Kos) state that their primary purpose is to elect Democrats. Marcos is on record, several other editors are on record, and the site itself states prominently that the purpose of the Daily Kos is to elect Democrats. They don’t say report news, they don’t say advance an agenda, they say elect Democrats, period. It’s a different situation. You can’t argue that you’re a press outlet, when all over your site you say you’re all about electing a certain political party to office. They are incompatible. And that’s why its different…

Fired Up and others are commentary sites and act like it. Daily Kos’s self-identified purpose is to get Democrats elected. It’d be different if they themselves stated they have another agenda, but they come out and admit they act like a PAC… they can’t run and hide simply because they are challenged.

This is an interesting comment also ….

#47 — July 24, 2007 @ 10:17AM — apetrelli
Those referring to the Fired-Up advisory opinion or the FEC hearings and ensuing exemption are wrong.

This complaint is based on DailyKos’ efforts at organizing voters, and raising money to further organize voters, for the expressed purpose of electing Democrats. This is not speech, it is clearly the actions and incidents of a political committee. There are clear grounds distinguishing this from both the advisory opinion and the exemption.

Watch DailyKos over the next few days (or at most, weeks) strip all references to ‘electing Democrats’ as they attempt to rewrite history. DailyKos is as DailyKos does.

I’m sure Kos is not taking money from the DNC, but all he has to do is disclose who he is taking from and end the inquiries … and stop banning people for political discussion …. allow discussion of all candidates. Why, eg, did they ban Ron Paul diaries? Or Cindy Sheehan candidacy diaries, if their claim is to be a ‘news entity’. That is shot down by their banning of any news related to these two political candidates, imo.

Be interesting to see the troll patrols waving around their FAQs. Someone in that thread says that Daily Kos never says anywhere that they are there only to elect Dems. Lol! Very bad defense.

Thanks to Clonecone’s, Elise’s and their cohorts’ endless waving of the ‘rules book, it is embedded in the minds of all that that is exactly what they claim. It is chanted like a cult mantra ‘This is a partisan site! Dammit, READ the FAQs etc. etc. Lol. I knew the troll patrols would eventually have some value to someone … looks like the FEC will be pouring over their admonitions to ‘banned trolls’ or were simply people wanting to discuss politics on a political board?

Jul 24, 9:43 AM  

************ End of Sabrina’s comment ************

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

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Comments»

1. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

If they are not getting monies than there is nothing to be afraid of… The FEC is just to follow the money trail not to dictate what can be said…. ust who is paying for what is being said. I think that is fair.

2. Revisionist - 24 July 2007

One has to wonder about certain things. Chatter about the coordination of the blogs. No one is supposed to endorse any candidate. No impeachment. Promote Reid’s feebleness. Booman has let slip some of the SOP as have others.

One either has to believe that they all decide this amoungst themselves in the Treehouse or one must assume that someone higher up the food chain is suggesting policy.

3. BooHooHooMan - 24 July 2007

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH Commence Phase II

4. marisacat - 24 July 2007

Taking down the text of the [calling for] Gonzales impeachment FP post from Kos. Substituting other text, but of course they were stuck iwth the comments.

It is laughable frankly.

If anyone missed it, SB has a good overview comment at the tag end of the last post.

[thansk again to D Throat!]

5. BooHooHooMan - 24 July 2007

Screen Shots Galore!
“Cunt” “Bitch” “Whore”!
Use another name Del Dem,
And we’ll letya post some more!

6. marisacat - 24 July 2007

btw, I landed on that pic on the first page of searching images.google using “Markos Moulitsas”… many “editorialised” photos appear from many blogs, that I have never heard of (I don’t get around all that much, just saying…)

I had my choice of less than flattering screen shots blogs have used.

7. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 July 2007

Oh funny, Politboro must not have received the information that they are NOT any longer a purely PARTISAN blog –

‘It’s up to us’, by Cindy Sheehan

Please remove this diary (15+ / 0-)
Recommended by:clonecone, Dems2004, Ahianne, Xeno of Elia, njgoldfinch, homo neurotic, redstater, Bouwerie Boy, Geekesque, witchamakallit, Spathiphyllum, begone, mmontanaman, mango, Jerry 101, philimus
This site’s main purpose is electing Democrats. To my knowledge, Ms. Sheehan is aware of this and said she would not post items supporting her candidacy on this site.

by Politburo on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 06:54:32 AM PDT

Looks like Barb didn’t get the message either ….

[new] Please delete this diary (25+ / 0-)
Recommended by:clonecone, Dems2004, Plutonium Page, Ahianne, geordie, Xeno of Elia, njgoldfinch, homo neurotic, Catte Nappe, DH from MD, redstater, Jeffersonian Democrat, Tom Daschle is still my Senator, Bouwerie Boy, Geekesque, The Raven, Spathiphyllum, begone, mmontanaman, mango, Jerry 101, philimus, Dartagnan, tcdup, Runs With Scissors
Cindy Sheehan cannot promote her candidacy here.

Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool– how much worse lying lips to a ruler – Proverbs 17:7

by BarbinMD on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 06:55:51 AM PDT

I think people join political sites expecting to be able to discuss political issues in a broad sense including all candicacies for political office … even if it is a partisan site. Their banning of Ron Paul diaries meant no one could even discuss how his candidacy might impact the election, or not.

There should be complete transparency …. maybe the FEC should take a look at those other rightwing sites also who ban people for going off message. This is not what the internet was supposed to be. They have turned it into campaign head-quarters for both parties, with little freedom for its members to discuss anything else ….

8. JJB - 24 July 2007

I see that Bambenek got named Duncan Black’s “Wanker Of The Day” (does Duncan know what that term means, BTW?). If he’s got the Whole Sick Crew of LittleOrangeSnotballsR’Us, DB, RedState, The Corner, et al. denouncing him in this fashion, he must 1) be on to something and 2) fighting the good fight. IIRC, not long after BlackShirt, ooopS!, excuse me, RedState got started it came out that the place was for all intents and purposes being run out of the Bush White House. The details escape me, but it was very obvious. Anyone attempting to argue that LittleOrangeEtc. is a venture independent of the Democratic Party is going to have to be very good at finding loopholes to slip through. Kos is going to need the services of lawyers far better than himself and Muttbutt Melrath to squirm out of this one.

9. Revisionist - 24 July 2007

Their banning of Ron Paul diaries

I was unaware of that. So you are saying I couldnt post a diary about the Ames straw poll for instance.

10. marisacat - 24 July 2007

LOL

Hillary and the Netroots

by BooMan
Sun Jul 22nd, 2007 at 03:08:49 PM EST

One of the worst kept secrets of the blogosphere is that bloggers communicate with each other privately and hash out narratives, swap good stories, argue about strategy, etc. Disagreements can sometimes get a little heated, especially on emotional issues like supplemental war funding or impeachment. [snip]

11. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 July 2007

Adam B arguing his case on Bambeneck’s blog:

#17 — July 24, 2007 @ 00:22AM — Adam B.

John, the “reform” groups explicitly argued before the FEC in the FiredUp case that “an organization whose stated purpose is to be the functional equivalent of a partisan campaign organization — to elect Democratic candidates and to solicit contributions for such candidates — does not qualify for the press exemption.”

Every single commissioner on the FEC rejected this argument, and agreed that FiredUp was indeed a press entity.

Moreover, the “compensation” issue only applies to being compensated by campaigns for the blogging. The FEC’s explanation of the regulations make clear that even if a campaign paid a blogger to perform technical/consulting services, the blogger’s personal blogging for which he wasn’t being paid didn’t count as a contribution/expenditure.

John, I fought long and hard alongside the folks from RedState to get these exemptions in place. The FEC could not have been more clear in 2005-06 as to what the new rules were. Please read them.

************

#18 — July 24, 2007 @ 00:23AM — John Bambenek [URL]
Adam-

I read the 2005 advisory opinion and it involves a site that doesn’t (unlike Daily Kos) state that their primary purpose is to elect Democrats. Marcos is on record, several other editors are on record, and the site itself states prominently that the purpose of the Daily Kos is to elect Democrats. They don’t say report news, they don’t say advance an agenda, they say elect Democrats, period. It’s a different situation. You can’t argue that you’re a press outlet, when all over your site you say you’re all about electing a certain political party to office. They are incompatible. And that’s why its different…

Fired Up and others are commentary sites and act like it. Daily Kos’s self-identified purpose is to get Democrats elected. It’d be different if they themselves stated they have another agenda, but they come out and admit they act like a PAC… they can’t run and hide simply because they are challenged.

This is an interesting comment also ….

#47 — July 24, 2007 @ 10:17AM — apetrelli
Those referring to the Fired-Up advisory opinion or the FEC hearings and ensuing exemption are wrong.

This complaint is based on DailyKos’ efforts at organizing voters, and raising money to further organize voters, for the expressed purpose of electing Democrats. This is not speech, it is clearly the actions and incidents of a political committee. There are clear grounds distinguishing this from both the advisory opinion and the exemption.

Watch DailyKos over the next few days (or at most, weeks) strip all references to ‘electing Democrats’ as they attempt to rewrite history. DailyKos is as DailyKos does.

I’m sure Kos is not taking money from the DNC, but all he has to do is disclose who he is taking from and end the inquiries … and stop banning people for political discussion …. allow discussion of all candidates. Why, eg, did they ban Ron Paul diaries? Or Cindy Sheehan candidacy diaries, if their claim is to be a ‘news entity’. That is shot down by their banning of any news related to these two political candidates, imo.

Be interesting to see the troll patrols waving around their FAQs. Someone in that thread says that Daily Kos never says anywhere that they are there only to elect Dems. Lol! Very bad defense.

Thanks to Clonecone’s, Elise’s and their cohorts’ endless waving of the ‘rules book, it is embedded in the minds of all that that is exactly what they claim. It is chanted like a cult mantra ‘This is a partisan site! Dammit, READ the FAQs etc. etc. Lol. I knew the troll patrols would eventually have some value to someone … looks like the FEC will be pouring over their admonitions to ‘banned trolls’ or were simply people wanting to discuss politics on a political board?

12. Paul - 24 July 2007

That’s the reason for my “Cyber-Sit-In” on DailyKos.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2007/6/16/221314/925/400#c400

Most mentions of my DailyKos “cyber-sit-in” get scrubbed, but this one exists because some critic of me quoted me.

I feel entitled as a constituent to comment in the blog-postings by my representatives.

Kos feels entitled to ban me for not obeying him.

These anti-impeachment, establishment-democrats want it both ways.

They want to cash in on open architecture of the internet, yet they don’t want me to tell them what I think of them in the comment threads of their fund-raising blog posts.

It’s time for a new group blog which is not a blog-dictatorship run by a congressional appointee who dictates what is or is not acceptable political discourse.

Kos has kept the source code of his private version of Scoop all to himself. He is no champion for free software or “open-source” politics.

I’d really like to know the sum of Kos’ weekly ad revenue. What I’m wondering is if he’s wealthy enough to afford only a few small yachts, or perhaps a fleet of yachts, or perhaps a mega-yacht like Larry Ellison’s.

It’s time for a political group-blog with an elected administrator and a bill of rights.

I’ve had this idea in mind ever since I was first sand-bagged by Kos’ authoritarian ideology enforcers.

13. Paul - 24 July 2007

For the record, my biggest beef with Kos and the establishment Democrats is that they won’t enforce the rule of law against Bush, i.e. impeach him.

14. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

It is very simple… who is really paying Kos and his Krew?

Answering that simple question does not revoke their freedom of speech. I really don’t care how much money they have … just where it is coming from.

15. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 July 2007

Revisionist, they have banned Ron Paul diaries, so if that straw poll relates to his candidacy and you wrote a diary about it, you would be descended upon, as in my above post re Cindy, and told to ‘delete that diary’. Their war against Ron Paul diarists was one of the most vile … and unless they erase the record, it is there on their own site. They ran off perfectly reasonable people, against the will of many members, who simply were trying to discuss his run for office.

If you do a search of Ron Paul diaries, and you can stand to read more of the hateful vitriol and name-calling, the record should still be there …..

This, I think, can be argued against ..

John, the “reform” groups explicitly argued before the FEC in the FiredUp case that “an organization whose stated purpose is to be the functional equivalent of a partisan campaign organization — to elect Democratic candidates and to solicit contributions for such candidates — does not qualify for the press exemption.”

Yes, and they failed because the site apparently was able to show that it was a news site. I haven’t read all the details. But DU could also argue that since it provides a far wider range of links to news organizations than DK. And it does allow, although the operatives do appear in threads there also, discussion of other candidates, ie, Ron Paul and Cindy, although they are contentious, I have not seen an official statement that those subjects are banned.

I would think that banning ‘news’ of Cindy’s and Paul’s campaigns, as you can see them doing in my above link to Barb and Politburo’s demands to today’s diarist to ‘delete that diary’ means they are censoring news that does not benefit Democrats in their opinion. And if news is censored for political reasons, does that make it impossible to get a ‘press exemption’?

My other question is, if they are not receiving money directly from the DNC, then they have nothing to fear. But if they are receiving money from anyone or org. connected to the DNC, then they may be in trouble. If they are, then they received very bad legal advice, imo.

I’m guessing that wherever the money comes from, since this came up before, they have found a way not to take money directly from any org that could be linked to the Party. But there are probably other ways of getting around that.

Bottom line, all these blogs, both right and left entice membership under false pretexts … DK on google is ‘liberal/progressive site eg. Same for the others. They should all reveal how they are being funded so that potential members do not sign up to be part of something they were unaware of, as happened with me and so many others.

Also, the banning of people like the Ron Paul diarists and commenters might be a problem for them also ….. don’t know I suppose it comes down to who’s funding them.

16. Tuston - 24 July 2007

BHHM # 3 comment:

Write on! Just want to add, “hahahahahahahahahahahah HA!”

P.S. “heh”

been reading along (mostly, it’s hard to keep up with all the comments) bar/restaurant opening has been pushed back til round the 1st. Liquor License came in yesterday (yeah!), but I’m still working on the electrical and finding empleadors…

Anyhoo, just wanted to point folks over to Rigorous Intuition today. Jeff Wells has a post up about Theresa Duncan’s “suicide” and I think that tragedy was brought up in the last thread.

Al rato, vatos…

17. JJB - 24 July 2007

Anyone who has perused the Op-Ed pages of the more prestigious of our major newspapers the last 40-50 years has been able (if they so desire) to read pieces attributed to major political figures, including both office holders and members of the government bureaucracy (I say “attributed” because the people who write these things are seldom the ones whose names are listed as author). Such pieces are generally nothing more than fleshed out talking points, bits of propaganda the Public Figure in question wants to enter into the national dialogue. If you’ve ever tried to slog your way through these things, you know they’re turgid, formulaic, unimaginative, and devoid of anything that smacks of personal style. You also know that the PF in question will give voice to the most shameless distortions, half-truths, and lies, and that the periodical which prints them probably does so with absolutely no confidence that they’re publishing something worthy of consideration, merely giving one political faction an opportunity to bamboozle the public with it’s perfume-sprayed horse manure on a particular topic.

All of which makes this story, which I discovered through a link at Josh Marhall’s site, extraordinarily interesting:

I remember the heady days for Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

About 2 1/2 years ago, when she was new in office, I accompanied her on her first trip around the world, with stops in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, South Korea, Japan and China. Crowds gathered to see her limousine drive past; people whistled, waved and cheered. Interviewers routinely asked her whether she was planning to run for president. One TV reporter in India told her she was “arguably the most powerful woman in the world.” She chuckled but did not exactly agree — or disagree.

How things change.

A few months ago, she decided to write an opinion piece about Lebanon. She enlisted John Chambers, chief executive officer of Cisco Systems as a co-author, and they wrote about public/private partnerships and how they might be of use in rebuilding Lebanon after last summer’s war. No one would publish it.

Think about that. Every one of the major newspapers approached refused to publish an essay by the secretary of state. Price Floyd, who was the State Department’s director of media affairs until recently, recalls that it was sent to the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times and perhaps other papers before the department finally tried a foreign publication, the Financial Times of London, which also turned it down.

As a last-ditch strategy, the State Department briefly considered translating the article into Arabic and trying a Lebanese paper. But finally they just gave up. “I kept hearing the same thing: ‘There’s no news in this.’ ” Floyd said. The piece, he said, was littered with glowing references to President Bush’s wise leadership. “It read like a campaign document.”

Floyd left the State Department on April 1, after 17 years. He said he was fed up with the relentless partisanship and the unwillingness to consider other points of view. His supervisor, a political appointee, kept “telling me to shut up,” he said. Nothing like that had occurred under Presidents Bill Clinton or George H.W. Bush. “They just wanted us to be Bush automatons.”

Please note that the author of this scathing assessment of Condi’s tenure as Secretary of State is Joel Brinkley, currently teaching journalism at Stanford University and a former foreign policy correspondent for the New York Times; not the sort of person normally given to such outspoken criticisms of figures such as Rice.

It would be interesting to see this unpublishable article. If even the WSJ refuses to carry this thing, you know it has to be unbelievably awful. What’s even more frightening is that it shows Rice as powerless and cutoff from any ability to influence the President she’s supposed to advise as William Rogers in Nixon’s WH, and there is no Henry Kissinger doing the work she’s supposed to be doing. Also, as Josh Marshall notes “[T]here’s truly never been an administration that has so relentlessly and cravenly politicized every nook and cranny of the governmental structure as this one. I’m not even sure there was anything like it in the 19th century, though the vast differences in the nature of the state itself make comparisons extremely difficult.”

18. marisacat - 24 July 2007

My guess, and I have never read it again as much I did before the site redesign, but my guess is the best positioned to argue it is a news service of sorts is TPM/Josh Marshall.

And I think it is even arguable in that case.

He is, at least, an accredited reporter…, they seem to ahve a real news section / breaking news section… and so on. It is one place I go to for full text of speeches, etc if I cannot find it easily on my own.

I think they ALL, all the A Listers (including TPM) are shill orgs however. All of them. And all tied to the DP fax machine, tied to their emails, etc.

19. marisacat - 24 July 2007

Thanks Tuston

(congrats on the Liquor License… ;)

20. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

well I think Stoller putting a PayPal account on his email… is kind of a clue.

5000$ for institutions

21. Revisionist - 24 July 2007

Paul – Buisness week had an article on “what bloggers make”. The low end appeared to be about $8000 a month. Not bad for a one person outfit. TPM was in the $45K a month range while Perez Hilton was at $100K a month. You can only assume that Kos must be somewhere in between those. He also has his mothertalkers and pastordan. A conservative estimate would be he makes 1/4 of million a year. Thats just off the websites not counting his book.

That said, his ad space has always looked woefully empty for a site of that magnitude.

22. marisacat - 24 July 2007

well mediagirl ran the numbers last year sometime (early on) and posted it ran to 665,000 for Dkos.

She posted that at her site and at BMT. I nEVER saw a dispute of the numbers.

Later that year a R operative site called DonkeyCons (not sure it is going anymore) put it at well over 800K

A few months ago a trade pub for blogger ad biz said Dkos was over ONE MILLION pr anuum for ad revenue.

Now I think for months a lot/most of his ads have been low end, in house, traded stuff. That should heat up for election year.

Make of it all what you will

(BTW, I surely have noticed those in the contentious Holland Piddy and other threads over at Wingless who endlessly push that Kos makes 80K + or so a year… and I sure do laugh)

23. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

Way more I would a least multiply that 8 times… he dropped 80,000$ on a piano… after buying a house in SF, and is fronting the entire tech updates from his own pocket plus he has four or five “fellows” (I’ve never heard of a private company having “fellows”… I guess he thinks he is Oxford Uni)

24. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

Yes one million in ads… not counting what they do not want listed by the FEC

25. marisacat - 24 July 2007

He bouhgt a house in OAKLAND. SF Bay Area.

26. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

Again… I could care less how much he is making… but if he is making that kind of money for silencing progressive and librul voices… then I want to know who is paying him and how much.

27. marisacat - 24 July 2007

At whatever point he insttuted his ‘Fellows” program he had to have a high income (whatever it may be now). IIRC he has 4 fellows at least.

AFAIC there should be transparency, within a range (“high/low 5 figures”, like that), as to what they are paid and what benefits (payment in kind) are offered.

cuz their pay is dependent on a shill org. IMO.

28. marisacat - 24 July 2007

JJB

I read that same piece elsewhere and was very interested.

One piece of dictation they did not want to take.

29. BooHooHooMan - 24 July 2007

The FEC should look into this and they will

But here’s how I think this is all going to shake out:
Markos is going to get sued by a group of activists.
Kos Media LLC, Markos personally, Admins and Front Pagers assorten other malefactors…all of em rolled up as Defendants in a civil class action claim of coordinated harrassment, civil rights violation, libel, bad pootie pics, hunter for adult acne, mcjoan for bad hair etc. (kidding about one of the last three)

Melrath, busy yourself with the merits here, and try and keep the pureed bananas on your bib. Markos is an ostensible agent for the DP, DP campaigns and certain DP candidates. Markos doesn’t have the sea legs to withstand what’s coming and the Dems will drop him like an Impeachment Motion .

These guys are raking in commish in campaign finance – thats the scam. Marcos can claim all day long that no one else has a right to know about HIS money. Campaign contributors, OTOH, have a reasonable expectation to know where THEIR money is going. That is a point worth litigating. Where does the money go when someone donates though a site to ActBlue? This summer on European Vacation with the Moulitsas Family? An IPOD or new Tivo for one of the Boyz? a Laptop for Jerralyn.

These fuckers are in a Dem Bloggergate. They have done more damage to the Progressive cause …all from the “inside”… that is, if you consider vouched “insiders” to be former Reaganites.

The media exposure that they all craved so long –will do them in far more effectively than the legal fees and machinations over summary dismissals( with no small satisfaction on the MSM’s part) The political “damaged goods” fallout will see Markos financing his Hair for Men Club’s rug in ten years as a low trajectory JD or teaching if he’s lucky.

I worry about the fate of the other
“progressive” celebrity bloggers though…
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
NOT

30. BooHooHooMan - 24 July 2007

The Alvin the Chipmunk persona was cute while it lasted.
Who knew the little fucker got off on jackboots??

31. ms_xeno - 24 July 2007

Markos in that screen-grab looks like some demented version of an aging Motown vocalist.

Standing in the shadows of $$$$$$$$… la la la…

32. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 July 2007

Tuston, thanks for that link to ‘suicide’ story …. haven’t read it yet, but do remember Bhhm posting about in another thread. Also, good luck with the opening ….

Imo, this complaint probably will go nowhere mainly because I think whoever is paying them, they’ve already taken into account all of ramifications of being an arm of the Dem. Party while pretending to be just a political blog, and covered themselves.

The other reason – as some of the commenters pointed out in Bambeneck’s thread, what about Rightwing blogs like Red State, or FR and eg, Fox News …. you could claim that all of them are shilling for the Repub Party. I know it is probably fine to shill for a political party and that it’s about funding rather than partisanship, but it would be pretty stupid of Kos not to have anticipated a complaint like this – especially since it came up before ..

Still, they must have been worried about banning Cindy Sheehan, which many of their shills called for, mainly because she is running as a third party candidate. I don’t think even that would get them in trouble, unless there is something to hide re how they are funded …

Otoh, I would love to see all of them, left and right, be more transparent re who is funding them. I doubt for a minute that Kos gets over $1,000,000 from ads. Most of the time, his ad slots are empty, the two top ones anyway ….

I can’t wondering why all of a sudden there are all these ‘attacks’ on the site …. someone said in a comment over there recently that it gets them a lot of knee-jerk support when the ‘right’ attacks them and with all the antagonism against them from their own members, this certainly could be seen as helpful, as people unite against a ‘common enemy’. Their partnership with the rightwing blogs is a little suspect also and I would not be surprised at anything either Party did in a ‘bi-partisan’ way, to up their profits since that’s what it is all about.

If they felt secure enough that a complaint like this would go nowhere, why not let go forward and hope for a ‘rallying of the troops’ since nothing else has accomplished that?

In the Cindy diary this morning, they were still making the claim that non Democratic ‘News’ stories cannot be posted at dk …. the diary was news, but it is still there despite the demands to remove it, with all the usual stupid recipes and ‘mocking’ of course …

Whatever happens, it’s just one more reason to not trust them as we see how aligned they are with ‘the enemy on the right’ while banning Progressives on a daily basis …. there is something we don’t know, but I trust my instincts in that I know they are NOT what they pretend to be whether this complaint will reveal what they are not.

33. Revisionist - 24 July 2007

Lets compare 2 blogads sites.

I just picked http://www.dlisted.com because its the first one I found. They have 13 large ads with a few little text ones. Kos has 8 and 3 of those are “house ads”.

I guess you could argue that Kos is bigger so he needs fewer ads. I would argue that Kos could actually be getting big name advertisors similar to the CNN ads he had last week.

I see three explanations.

1) Advertisors are afraid. I disagree because they do have ads on more controversial sites

2) They have no one working on revenue. Really believable because all the lawyer types are usually awful when it comes to PR/Advertising/Marketing

3) Its a clever ruse. They want to look all homespun and grassroots and people powered. Ads for Mastercard would make them look too establisment.

34. marisacat - 24 July 2007

BHHM

your link is only “http:///” and nothing else.

If you fix the link (post the URL or send it to me) I will elevate the comment).

Thanks… ;)

35. JJB - 24 July 2007

MCat,

I think they ALL, all the A Listers (including TPM) are shill orgs however. All of them. And all tied to the DP fax machine, tied to their emails, etc.

Yes, very definitely. I still remember Josh M pimping (in his low-keyed, milqetoasty fashion) in favor of the Iraq invastion, citing Ken Pollack uncritically. And one of Josh’s very best friends is the ultra-slimy Mickey Kaus, who must have been separated at birth from his long-lost twin Melrath. Josh is useful for both the things you list as well as a perfect example of the sort of Dem-linked academic pinhead reporter/pundit consensus wisdom that will predominate among WH staffers (and those who wish to be) should the Dems win next year. Of course, by that time withdrawal from Iraq will be OUT OF THE QUESTION! as they desperately try to figure out how to achieve something that could be labeled as victory. In other words, look for Josh to be quoting Ken Pollack favorably again 18-24 months from now.

36. Revisionist - 24 July 2007

Hillary Clinton Communications Direct Howard Wolfson will go on O’Reilly’s program (8 p.m.) to debate him on YearlyKos. It appears this is no longer operative. Hillary appears invested in the netroots, which is a great thing for all of us. —- Kos

would have been more believable if Murdoch hadnt already fundraised for Clinton

Back in 06 Paul Waldmen of mediamatters wondered:

“Nothing could be better for his media properties than for her to be president of the United States,” Mr. Waldman said. “I just can’t figure out what’s in it for her. She doesn’t need the money, and it doesn’t really buy her any credentials as a moderate.”

Evidently, it might be gaining her netroots cred. And she is a self-proclaimed ” modern” Progressive now.

37. BooHooHooMan - 24 July 2007

Mcat it was a bogus propeller head link for Melrath to keep busy.

On a serious not, Matt Debargalis ActBlue frontman recieved a letter from the FEC dated January 12 2007 a post general election compliance letter- I hope this link is good still going through a lot of their records

http://images.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/fecimg/?F27039334712

38. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

These supposed attacks on DK are only meant to “rally the troops”… within days you will hear for calls for unity against the “other”.

The only reason Reid, Pelosi, Schumer, Emanuel and Hilliary have agreed to go to YK is because they have PAID for the progressive “backdrop”…. and people like OPOL and the “Amen Corner” and messing with their livelihoods…

WE will see more attacks that will follow with more earnest defenses from the Democratic Leadership… showing that “We are all on the same side”…

Okay … so it was one day

39. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

Ha Kos just put up another “Impeach Gonzales” FP… but WITHOUT his recommendation… just reporting the facts.

40. JJB - 24 July 2007

MCat, no. 28,

Now if only they could learn to stop printing dictation like this:

President George W. Bush argued forcefully today that an Al Qaeda-affiliated group in Iraq is linked tightly to the central Al Qaeda leadership, and that for American forces to leave Iraq without defeating the terror group would be “dangerous for the world and disastrous for America.”

He made the remarks at Charleston Air Force Base in South Carolina, at a time of fierce debate in Washington over Iraq policy. Last week, a major intelligence report concluded that the international Al Qaeda organization of Osama bin Laden had successfully regrouped, probably in rugged northwest Pakistan, and that it is once again as strong as it was before the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

In a half-hour speech clearly aimed at his Democratic critics, Mr. Bush said that those who argued that the affiliated group, called Al Qaeda in Iraq or AQI, was a local group with local objectives, and not a serious threat to Americans at home, were seriously misinformed.

“It’s hard to argue that Al Qaeda in Iraq is separate from bin Laden’s Al Qaeda when the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq took an oath of allegiance to Osama bin Laden,” Mr. Bush said, referring to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a leader of the affiliated group in Iraq who was killed last year.

Mr. Bush called the two similarly named groups “an alliance of killers,” and said, “No enemy is more ruthless in Iraq than Al Qaeda.”

As the article itself mentions, “Mr. Bush’s message did not vary in substance from what he has long said about the groups.” Really, just what is newsworthy about that? This perhaps: the President of the United States continues to cling to a delusion, and display a textbook example of the paranoid style in American politics. To wit:

The paranoid spokesman sees the fate of conspiracy in apocalyptic terms — he traffics in the birth and death of whole worlds, whole political orders, whole systems of human values. He is always manning the barricades of civilization. . . . Since what is at stake is always a conflict between absolute good and absolute evil, what is necessary is not compromise but the will to fight things out to a finish. Since the enemy is thought of as being totally evil and totally unappeasable, he must be totally eliminated — if not from the world, at least from the theatre of operations to which the paranoid directs his attention. This demand for total triumph leads to the formulation of hopelessly unrealistic goals, and since these goals are not even remotely attainable, failure constantly heightens the paranoid’s sense of frustration. Even partial success leaves him with the same feeling of powerlessness with which he began, and this in turn only strengthens his awareness of the vast and terrifying quality of the enemy he opposes.

41. outofwater - 24 July 2007

Interesting on the DK Gonzales impeachment story, it must have taken some negotiation before they let Markos get so close to the line. Talk about mixed messages.

As SB said, what kind of libertarian can’t even speak his mind on his own blog? The answer is, one with an $80,000 piano bought on credit.

42. ms_xeno - 24 July 2007

Oh, I’m thinking that US forces who rape women and girls or use attack dogs to tear apart babies could teach Bush’s version of Al-Queda a thing or two about ruthlessness.

43. Paul - 24 July 2007

As far as I’m concerned, so much of this online political fund-raising is legally uncharted territory. I don’t think any of these bloggers is in any trouble, other than with the court of public opinion.

I think the scrutiny which inevitably is drawn by such vast quantities of money raised will lead to more open accounting.

If BushCo can do things like suck $9,000,000,000 out of Kuliforneeuh’s economy with faked rolling blackouts, and war-profiteer, Halliburton can move its head-quarters to Dubai while White-Al Qaeda leader Dick Cheney still owns stock, this FEC filing against Kos Media will be dismissed. It will increase scrutiny, lead to new plans for regulations and lower Kos’ credibility in the court of public opinion.

Kos with his [perhaps imaginary] yachts, even if he can afford to buy a small fleet of them is peanuts compared to the pillaging of our federal budget by the war-criminal repigs.

I think the lesson in all of this is that Kos has revealed himself as a poseur and that the “purity” dissidents who’ve been pushed out of DailyKos are now the ascending wave of influential bloggers.

I know I can find ethical ways to monetize web-traffic and maintain my credibility and dignity. It’s time for the true netroots-bloggers to monetize our activities and to stop lining the pockets of poseurs.

Remember, if your not making any money, you’re still losing it as your tax-dollars are being looted, and the value of the dollar is driven lower. We have to make our activism profitable because it takes time, energy, and we’re being robbed blind by BushCo as we speak.

44. marisacat - 24 July 2007

I just lost a longish comment (reply to JJB). I checked spam for it, no go. I had gotten a “bad request” screen when I tried to post it.

Apologies to anyone else this happens to .. may be best to click and copy before sending long comments, this happened yesterday as well.
:(

45. Revisionist - 24 July 2007

From David Swanson (known banned troll):

What was Conyers’ objection to moving forward on impeachment now? Well, he said, if he were to do that Fox News would go after him and accuse him of being partisan. I kid you not. The Democratic Chairman of the U.S. House Judiciary Committee is basing his decisions on whether a Republican cable TV station would approve.

Conyers has stood up to FOX in the past. Another flip-flop for Conyers?

jackandjillpolitics once noted:

Guess it takes a whole lot of grease to fry the CBC’s chicken. Grease MSNBC and other networks must not be handing over quite as liberally to CBC-related organizations. In 2002, the CBC Foundation was given an undisclosed amount from Fox News and parent company News Corp. Between 2003-2005, they gave the CBC somewhere between $47,500 to $98,998 with numbers for 2006 still unavailable. Don’t believe me. Get the facts here and take a look at CBCF’s donor list.”

46. Paul - 24 July 2007

14. D. Throat – 24 July 2007

It is very simple… who is really paying Kos and his Krew?

I can answer that question. It’s very simple. The Establishment Congressional Democrats and presidential candidates are “paying” Kos and his “Stable” of “Fellows”, “Fellowettes” and cyber-fellatio-sychophants.

They’re paying Kos in a new type of currency – clicks. Their participation on DailyKos is what drives his traffic which provides the ad-revenue and the opens the checkbooks of the generous but naive netroots activists.

The Establishment Democrats have given Kos a near monopoly on “cyber” access.

Kos credits “blog-father” MyDD on his front-page. MyDD did the one thing that made DailyKos special before DailyKos did it.

MyDD applied the open-source, GPL, user-moderated-forum “Scoop” to online political discourse.

The perception of an online meritocracy combined with constituents gaining unprecedented access to their “representatives” is what drew the masses.

Kos still has the best software but not for much longer. The improvements to Kos’ private version of the Scoop software was financed by the generosity of real activists who opened their wallets again and again for him when they thought Kos was a for real.

He’s rode the wave of free, open-source software but he’s hoarded the source-code, hoarded the cash, and given as little back as possible. He won’t even push for impeachment.

New and superior free software will soon eliminate the technological advantage that Kos Media LLC has enjoyed for several years.

The next step in online political group-blogging is total-commitment to open-accounting, free-software, and online democracy.

The much anticipated release of “DailyKos 4.0″ will be a joke if it’s not open-source.

DailyKos will also remain a joke if it remains an online authoritarian regime under the self-declared “merciless” administration of Blogtator Markos.

Online democracy is what’s next on the agenda.

If Kos wants to remain a relevant voice in this new frontier, he can try to wrap his mind around the free-software movement, give back generously to free-software projects and finally, lend his voice in favor of impeachment. It’s the least he can do.

Either that, or he can go chugging off in his yacht and say “So long, suckers and thanks for all the loot!”

47. lucid - 24 July 2007

Oh, I’m thinking that US forces who rape women and girls or use attack dogs to tear apart babies could teach Bush’s version of Al-Queda a thing or two about ruthlessness.

[AIPAC thug]Yes, but our soldiers would only do such things to ‘enemy combatants’ – you know those babies are strapped & of course Arab terrorists have a long tradition of using children as weapons.[AIPAC thug]

48. marisacat - 24 July 2007

Good diary on Conyers frm “Alexander” at BMT.

he quotes from Lindorff and Swanson

49. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 July 2007

Revisionist, interesting re the media donating to politicians. Is that actually acceptually under Campaign Finance laws? I guess I learn something new every every day.

Also, I remember the CBC not wanting to boycott Fox. Is this the reason why, because they receive money from Murdoch? If so, it just gets worse every day …. I find it so hard to believe that Conyers would cave on what was his mission, to get these criminals out of office, because of a fear of what Fox might say about him. If this is true, I have totally lost whatever respect I had left for him …..

***********

Hi Paul, nice impeachment site – but Nancy for President?

Oops, I see you are not pushing that …..

You seem to know a lot about the software that runs sites like DK. I know nothing about technology so I have a question. How much do you think it would cost to have a set-up like DK and why do you think the unaligned blogs haven’t started a real progressive site, since so many have been banned from DK?

I do agree with you here ….

I think the lesson in all of this is that Kos has revealed himself as a poseur and that the “purity” dissidents who’ve been pushed out of DailyKos are now the ascending wave of influential bloggers.

I know I can find ethical ways to monetize web-traffic and maintain my credibility and dignity. It’s time for the true netroots-bloggers to monetize our activities and to stop lining the pockets of poseurs.

So, let’s do it …. everyone is sick of these BBB blocking everything that the party wants to have blocked and having the media see them as the progressive online community when nothing could be further from the truth …

If you have ways of ethically funding such a site and I’m certain there are …. I think there would be an immediate membership available to whoever did so … you can see now that most of kos’ membership have had it and want real action. His site consistently suppresses any attempt to do anyting of value ….

There are enough excellent former ‘kossacks’ banned and not banned, writers, activists etc to contribute to such a site and who would be far more appealing once they were available than the dull, boring, bullying FP crowd at DK ….

Anyway, I do think you are right, it’s just getting it started.

‘If you build it they will come’ imho!

50. Revisionist - 24 July 2007

Congress has to act.

Yes Kos, they should have acted ages ago. WHy is the purjory different now. One thing that does stand out is that Schumer will have to face your minions soon. Pumping him up is sure to keep his boo’s at a minimum.

51. Paul - 24 July 2007

RE: Comment 47.

The “Mujihideen” originally received training and funding from the CIA under Bush Sr., so “Al Qaeda” did learn a thing or two about ruthlessness from one President Bush.

Regarding the comment about “attack dogs to tear apart babies”.

All manner of horror occurs in every war. The focus first should be on holding the Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales accountable for what was done in Fallujah, Abu Ghraib and Haditha, among other places in Iraq.

Soldiers who are under extreme forms of psychological and physical coercion and physical threat from combatants lose their minds and do terrible things. The most important thing is to hold the Bush Administration accountable for this.

Regarding the comment about “AIPAC thugs” – “Thug” is an interesting word. “Thug” is a shortened version of “Thugee” and it was a slur used by British occupiers to denigrate Indians in India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee

Thugs is also a word often used with a positive connotation by hip hop artists and often used negatively by people who don’t like hip hop.

IIRC, Tupac Shakur had a song called “Thug Life”. Tupac had Indian and African blood. Clearly he had an Indian name. His use of the word “Thug” was most likely used with full understanding of its meaning as a man of Indian descent and as a man of “African American” descent.

To some, the word is still used as a slur. Rumsfeld used it as a slur against Iraqis. To some, the word is used as a self-identification, positively. It is not unlike a certain other controversial word often used in hip hop. I should also mention that gender-politics plays into the way people react to this word.

Next point: AIPAC is, for the most part, a vehicle for militant, “Evangelical”, pseudo-”Christian” TV cult leaders who undermine Israeli and American national security and foreign policy. This is, of course, done along with the cooperation of some tokens of another group, but I believe AIPAC is mostly “gentile”.

That’s my opinion, anyway.

52. marisacat - 24 July 2007

Well it was under Carter and Zbig that Afghanistan got going. I am unsure what Carter is saying recently on the subject, but Zbig has no problem taking credit.

53. Miss Devore - 24 July 2007

I had no idea rummy didn’t like hip-hop.

(can’t help myself)

54. outofwater - 24 July 2007

There is polling somewhere that says they’d be better off impeaching than not. Kos wouldn’t have done this if it was risky. It’s funny that impeachment porn is now mainstream.

How does this work? Kos gets permission to take a new stand, then does he notify the administrators who go further down the food chain and tell the thugs? Or do they all just wait for the next proclamation, and then intuitively know how to act? Will they now act as if this was their position all along?

55. BooHooHooMan - 24 July 2007

I’ve pared my life a way from aquisitive consumption but I still am an easy touch when my extremely unmaterial girl – my daughter -asks me for money. We still go through the motions where I can ask her where the dough is going and she can detail that its going for “Some stuff, Dad”. Then I get to discover that high mileage jeans can actually be bought that way. No walkin’ eight miles for gas as part of the “worn in” look. No swimmin’ in ‘em.No runnin’ from the cops, ripping them while goin’ over fences. (that’s a good thing) You can just buy them that way – probably produced on overseas juvenile delinquent farms , teen angst-ers all running & jumping around, stubbing out illicit cigarettes on their thighs etc, then the duds are delivered safely to the Youth of America – I don’t know – maybe after a round in a washing machine full of rocks…

Anyways…
“Some stuff, Dad”.is more forthright and comprehensive disclosure than anything I’ve seen on how money is funneled behind the curtain in the “progressive” blogger/ Democratic Party shill scene.

56. Revisionist - 24 July 2007

I’m just laughing. Now Hunter is all Gonzo Gung-Ho. They act like they need to convince people. Dudes your readers were on board months ago. Its your senators who are doing nothing.

57. Miss Devore - 24 July 2007

nothing makes me feel safer than seeing a wastepaper basket on the desk of an air traffic controller’s computer console.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2zse3p

58. Paul - 24 July 2007

RE: comment 49.

Hi Sabrina Ballerina,

First I’ll explain my site http://www.Pelosi2007.org

There are a few reasons I’m fixated on Pelosi for president in 2007.

First and foremost, it implies the double impeachment and/or forced resignations of Bush and Cheney.

Nancy Pelosi is, of course, 3rd in line for succession to the Oval Office.

I am adamantly opposed to the idea of Bush appointing his successor and being pardoned. Thus, Madame President Nancy Pelosi is my goal in 2007.

Pelosi2007.org is presented as if it were a presidential campaign website, and in a sense it is. I resent the early commencement of the election campaign season for 2008 because I believe the early start was contrived as a distraction from impeachment.

What would it cost to have the equivalent of Kos’ private version of Scoop? Well, something which is already better in many ways is available for free: http://www.drupal.org

With some fund-raising for key module developers and core developers, I expect it will eclipse Kos’ version of Scoop in the specific subset of functionality which makes DailyKos so interactive and it will eclipse Kos’ private version of Scoop in scalability as well.

I’ll make a conservative estimate on the functionality which emulates DailyKos: $1000-3000

Another estimate on making that functionality scalable to 50,000 concurrent users: $5,000-$50,000

Since most group-blogs don’t have as many concurrent users as DailyKos or HuffingtonPost, I’m confident $1000-3000 would get us to the first goal of functionally emulating DailyKos using modules which already exist but need slight customization and debugging.

This software is currently and will remain free because of the GPL license it’s published under. Once enough political group-blogs begin to use this software, and enough people are made aware of the political-implications of this software, fund-raising will sky-rocket.

They already have plenty of fund-raising happening, and development progress is happening at an fast and accelerating rate.

We’ll get there with or without a concerted fund-raising effort for this specific installation profile which emulates the functionality of DailyKos.com.

I may finance the first goal myself, out of sheer impatience. But you can have it very soon if you fund-raise. I’ve personally donated hundreds and raised almost as much.

Please contact me if you’re interested in fund-raising.

Paul dot Gaskin at Yahoo dot com

59. marisacat - 24 July 2007

Anyways…
“Some stuff, Dad”.is more forthright and comprehensive disclosure than anything I’ve seen on how money is funneled behind the curtain in the “progressive” blogger/ Democratic Party shill scene.
—- BHHM

Bingo. Won’t be changing either. IMO.

60. marisacat - 24 July 2007

2007 is close to 3/4s over. Poor Dems. They whine and weeze about the Iraqi parliament.

Month of August. Back for a few weeks (they will refine 3 days weeks by then), then home for Thanksgiving. Back for a bit, Opps Christmas.

Then it is all primaries and caucus dates … then the nom as soon as SUper Dooper Tuesday, Feb 5… and the slog to Denver convention.

And so it goes. LOL check their calendars. “The will of the American People” is not on it, anywhere, for any of them. Most particularly not for the weak as noodles in water overnight Judiciary. COnyers and Leahy. Lumps on a rodent.

Least of all, for La Nan. As STop Me calls her.

61. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 July 2007

Lucid, speaking of Aipac …. someone who still posts at dk, emailed me links to what they think may have been the real reason for Kos’ warning diary … or one of them anyway. And after I read through the threads, I have to say, I would agree that things really are beyond ugly in the I/P diaries. I like so many others, avoided them. I used to read them and did come to recognize some of the more obvious operatives, mostly pro/Israel. One of them was a commenter named jhritz.

But I had no idea how nasty things had become and it seems people have taken their anger to new levels, such as hiring private detectives to identify other members (jhritz always a whiner and emotional manipulator, claiming to be stalked etc as a means of control. That was my assessment of her/him/it).

Seems also that this person claims to have gone to the police and was advised to have a firearm and be ready to shoot another kossack should they show up etc. etc. Sounds like bs to me and coming from that poster, not surprising –

This person has stood out from the beginning as a manipulator. I feel sorry from those who didn’t just walk away from ‘it’. But guess whose side the ‘administration’ has taken so far? Reminds me of the Slouise mess..

Imo, they will regret doing so, because imo, this is someone who is NEVER going to be satisfied, especially if Kos doesn’t outright support ‘it’ by sometimes referring to ‘both sides’. He will have to ban everyone this person is paranoid about…. anyway, maybe it was not the impeachment diaries he had in mind. People claiming they are ready to shoot at other members and that the police told them to, is more than a little bizarre.

This reads like spy novel …. when you mentioned Aipac, I thought of the I/P diaries at DK and Hunter’s declaration against all supporters of Palestine. And even that was enough for them ….

With us or against us

The discussions on this site have… (11+ / 0-)
Recommended by:rawls, litho, sockpuppet, 4jkb4ia, Rusty Pipes, oortdust, ZappoDave, Petronella, malharden, dgr, North Country Dem

…definitely gotten nasty over the past few weeks. In fact, I just saw a comment in which one user boasts of having used a private detective to determine the true identity of another user, and than talks about shooting that user (or her “proxies,” whatever that means). I expect it’s just bullshit, but that kind of threat HAS to be taken seriously (I’ve emailed the admins).

“Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed.” Nancy Pelosi

by StupidAsshole on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 11:18:11 AM PDT

*************

that’s not the case (3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:dadanation, condoleaser, MBNYC

the comment was untrue. You’re being played. The fact: A banned user sent a threat to a current user via email, which was then traced back, by the police, via the banned user’s email ip address from the email the banned user sent. The quote stupidasshole is twisting (as part of an ongoing flame war that Kos wants ended), came from the police.

The admins know about this.

Don’t get involved.

Have you read about the Kurds and the Zoroastrians yet?

by jhritz on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 06:38:36 PM PDT

*************

You are a shite-stirrer of the (1+ / 7-)
Recommended by:mattes
Trollrated by:arielle, Bouwerie Boy, MBNYC, blueness, GoldnI, jhritz, Runs With Scissors

highest magniturd. You should have been banned months ago. Sadly, because you play to the heart strings and people believe you, it hasn’t happened.

I have seen NPBeachFun’s comments for months, as I have seen yours. You stir up trouble and then bitch and moan about it; you have threatened me squillions of times for nothing more than disagreeing with you. S/he has interesting points to make that add to the discussion. I guess the squeaky wheel got the grease, in this case. That’s sad, and a loss for the community. I just hope that one day one of the admins takes a look at your record and does the right thing, instead of the easy thing, for all of us.

by Petronella on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 12:18:52 AM PDT

I agree with Petronella and it is another case of a troll being patted on the head by the administration of dk. I noticed that person right in the beginning of its membership and stayed far away from it. When it’s losing an argument, it claims all sorts of personal tragedies etc. The banned member was another decent person, who let themselves be provoked. But this ‘ritz’ character is quite professional at provoking people.

She’s not happy either that kos wasn’t clear that there’s only one side in this … Lol! I actually read his diary to mean that he WAS definitely on one side, but for appearances sake had to at least mention the other. But as I said, total annihilation is what this person wants, and appears to be getting …. Aipac would be proud of dk, especially of Hunter and especially with the banning of every prominent pro-Palestinian Peace advocate and the promise to ban all of them … but it’s still not enough …. never will be …..

62. marisacat - 24 July 2007

LOL

adn remember Juan Cole has set up the ME panel at Ykos.

Do people come with seconds, and dueling pistols and a PI in a raincoat.

Hey why not.

63. misssheiladevore - 24 July 2007

Mcat-what is your beef with Juan Cole?

64. ms_xeno - 24 July 2007

Paul:

Soldiers who are under extreme forms of psychological and physical coercion and physical threat from combatants lose their minds and do terrible things.

Perhaps so. Or perhaps they are acting by directive of their superiors, who are so rarely left holding the bag.

Also, if US soldiers commit attrocities because of trauma and/or coercion, who’s to say that Al-Queda ops are not doing so for the same reasons ? Or does Bush want to posit that the average suicide bomber spent all but the last ten minutes of his/her life being fed peeled grapes while supine on a silk-covered chaise lounge ?

The most important thing is to hold the Bush Administration accountable for this.

The most important thing is to hold both parties [sic] accountable for this.

65. marisacat - 24 July 2007

Too Too Funny – and too cute by half...

Banned you say? (banned by DH and Kagro, I would agree to that one) LOL. Linking back to Hunter and defending Kos and Dkos w/r/t impeaching Gonzales.

66. marisacat - 24 July 2007

MD

what beef?

67. Revisionist - 24 July 2007

SB – thats nothing! Back in the early days of the net the JDL site had an “enemies” list of people that pissed them off. Names, addresses and phone numbers. Both work and home. They had pictures as well. Of people, their houses and place of business. Harrassment was encouraged. Much of the site is now members only. It was (still is) a pretty scary place. Some of the people who come out in those diaries always make me think of the JDL circa 1998.

68. misssheiladevore - 24 July 2007

did not understand your remarks at #62, I guess.

69. marisacat - 24 July 2007

Some of the people who come out in those diaries always make me think of the JDL circa 1998.
— Revisionist.

I would agree with that. And the I/P posts/diaries were a big flash point as far back as 4 years ago. Always were.

It used to be one thing that MB was good on. I have no idea his presence lately in those diaries, esp as the site takes an increasingly hard and public hard line against Palestinian supporters, sympathisers or those just not “Likud enough” to suit.

70. Revisionist - 24 July 2007

#67 —

MCat, I notice Theoria, A Gilas Girl signed as Kos management. Cant say I have ever heard of either. Were they cast aside or did they leave?

71. marisacat - 24 July 2007

MD

the comments I made refer to a comment upthread (not looking it up) I htink of SB’s referring to harrassment and threats between commenters in I/P diaries.

So shall they bring dueling pistols to the panel. ETC. Just rhetoric on my part.

72. marisacat - 24 July 2007

Theoria was briefly a FPer in 2004. Rather a rocky road I would say. He left or was pushed (lots of stories around) and he (with em dash and Fast Pete) revived a site of his, Liberal Street Fighters, as a group site. Where i FPed.

LOL I am no fan of theoria and left the site due to him …

A Gilas Girl had been a long time commenter, from pre scoop days. Rather fostered eventually by both DH and Armando. Briefly a FP in late 2004/2005 (FPERS 3.0 with Kid O and ARmando etc). Think she lasted 3 mos iwth 2 posts. SOmthing like that.

Again, not a fan – at least not of hers once she was a suck up. She too was to be a “beard” for them. Suppsoed Lefty (she endlessly lectured on the meaning of “progressive”, if you can think of anything more boring, I cannot) mostly a depressive I would say. Sorry to be blunt.. LOL.

73. misssheiladevore - 24 July 2007

progressive depressives…what a political force! (said, half-seriously)

74. misssheiladevore - 24 July 2007

I read that the ethanol thing is driving up the price of popcorn. which is why I will not link to Liceinfested Vagina’s “homework assignment” diary for the Senate on dk.

75. lucid - 24 July 2007

Paul – side note. We have a habit here of doing pseudo html comments in []

For instance, “[DHinMI]OPOL you’re a conspiracy troll![/DHinMI]

And we tend to refer to the thread police as ‘thread thugs’. So I was doing a play on that and the many thread cops at Dkos who conflate criticism of the undue influence of AIPAC on US foreign policy and ‘anti-semitism’.

As for AIPAC, it isn’t just a Christian organization, it is also composed of extreme Zionists.

SB – yes I caught up on that whole exchange yesterday. It was hideous, and Jhritz is one fo the most annoying of the Dkos Hasbara brigade, up there with dcoronata and keithmoon for the racism and half truths that fly from her lips. They’ve been actively trying to get Mattes, Litho, jontheantizionistjew and other pro Palestinian posters banned for months. I’m positive that they have ties to militant Zionist groups, as they all appeared around the same time & they appear immediately in every single I/P diary that pops up.

The ascendency of that whole group within the threadcopocracy at Dkos was actually my last straw.

76. misssheiladevore - 24 July 2007

I’m belting out “Secret Agent Man” while herniating my diaphragm with laughter:

“I arrive in Chicago (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
buhdydharma

around 11:30 a.m. I will cab it to McCormick’s. I have your cell phone number, so I will call you once I am on the ground. However, I have a regional caucus at 2 so I will probably have to go straight to that.

I will email you further details.

In order to find his equal an Irishman is forced to talk to God.

by Delaware Dem on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 03:47:04 PM PDT”

77. marisacat - 24 July 2007

New Tom Gram from Tom Dispatch. He has Chalmers Johnson review a new book on the CIA, Legacy of Ashes from Weiner.

78. marisacat - 24 July 2007

As for “thug”…

I have long called the thread thugs, old time Dem Party thugs. Enforcers.

Nothing especially new about any of it. Closer at hand, maybe. About it…

79. lucid - 24 July 2007

Rev: one of my best friends [a poli sci prof] was targeted by Daniel Pipes’ organizaiton which attempts to defame professors sympathetic to the Palestinian cause & pressure universities to sanction them.

Fucking disgusting shit. And they whine about ‘anti-semitism’ when people point out the scent of fascism wafting from their actions.

80. misssheiladevore - 24 July 2007

so where d’yall weigh on the hillary v. obama from last night’s debate?

is she clubbing a baby seal or calling him “boy”?

81. BooHooHooMan - 24 July 2007

#76 LOL miss D

I will be on the ground at 11:30 am
I will be picking up the Lemon Meringue and grab a camel to McCormicks
After “the hit”,…..

Fuck it scratch that I say we pie em right when he gets in the cab.

(markos is dancing in the upper right corner)

82. misssheiladevore - 24 July 2007

they’ve given you a user id..and taken away your name. (which you keep giving back)

BHHM–how is the orange phallo growin’?

83. BooHooHooMan - 24 July 2007

Color coat comes later.

84. misssheiladevore - 24 July 2007

then I guess you are a strict constructionist.

85. BooHooHooMan - 24 July 2007

I am rigid in my assertion that there should be no deviant protrusions.

86. BooHooHooMan - 24 July 2007

Okay okay mercy! mercy! The thing will go down hill from here on out

87. MIss Devore - 24 July 2007

down Hill?

oy.

because she showed more cleveland than dennis?

I thought you were stronger.

88. AlanSmithee - 24 July 2007

There’s a further down for it to go?!?

89. MIss Devore - 24 July 2007

America cannot bear the sight of Harriet Miers being frogmarched in her royal blue suit by the Sargeant-at-Arms.

90. BooHooHooMan - 24 July 2007

[adjusting monacle, whispering while reaching for popcorn]

HuffPo refers to:

Mystery San Francisco Power Outages Hit Giants Stadium, Knocks Out Major Websites

No mention of dailykos clearing throat

91. marisacat - 24 July 2007

It was an explosion in the Main St substation. Which is a big one.

It hit financial district, and that would be a lot of offices, banks etc… also a lot of dot commers (Craig’s List went down) SO of Market area was hit… the At&T stadium, where the Giants had a game. It hit 50 K… they say tho now only 1K. Also people would seem to come up, but then go down. Multiple repeated outages…

Well maybe it is just 1,000 now..

92. marisacat - 24 July 2007

The Hill via TruthOut:

Sheehan: I Will Beat Speaker Pelosi

By Jeremy Jacobs
The Hill

Tuesday 24 July 2007

If Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) refuses to bring articles of impeachment against President Bush to the floor of the House, anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan said Monday, Sheehan not only will challenge the Speaker in the next election but also will defeat her.

Discussing President Bush and Vice President Cheney, Sheehan said, “We put them there. We can fire them. If Nancy Pelosi doesn’t do her constitutionally mandated job by midnight tonight, tomorrow I will announce that I’m going to run against her.

“And not only am I going to run against her, but I will beat her,” Sheehan added.

A spokesman for Pelosi, Nadeam Elshami, said the Speaker and House Democrats are working toward their goals this Congress and would not address Sheehan’s proclamation.

“The Speaker and House Democrats are focused on ending the war in Iraq, holding the Bush administration accountable and delivering a new direction for the American people,” Elshami said. “Those are the priorities of the Speaker and the Democrats.” [snip]

93. outofwater - 24 July 2007

Well, they have all found religion on the impeach Gonzales issue. It’s getting ridiculous, what ever happened to pride?

I just hate it when I agree with them. Kos’s premature impeachment announcement yesterday may have just been an early indicator of the DP shift on the issue. He leaked too soon. Today’s testimony was the offcial scripted final straw. Now they can all get off on impeachment porn.

94. MIss Devore - 24 July 2007

the bush admin always carries its most disastrous members until the very end, until it is not possible to let them stay on/ be recycled somewhere else in the administration. but it always gives them time.

95. Revisionist - 24 July 2007

i think i found the perfect girl for jason

They will roll back the silliness once in office
because they have no other choice as Democrats.

What has been done is so against everything and anything the Democratic party stands for, this is simply a no brainer. I don’t need them to swear on their pinky, a bible or some other ridiculous thing to know this will happen.

I’ll have a Democrat for President and a Democratic Congress for dessert, thank you. -6.00, -6.21

by funluvn1

96. Intermittent Bystander - 24 July 2007

Wide Angle.

The Sand Castle: An Urban Mirage on the Sand Dunes

Norwegian architect Eirin Gjørv designs a city in one of the United Arab Emirates.

Speaking of Richistans. . . .

97. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 July 2007

Paul, #58 – thanks for that info … so it may be that there will lots of competition soon for the BBBs. I hope so … wrt fund-raising, I’ve never done that … couldn’t it be done when the site started up? To get the initial funding, everyone has an email list, and lots of former Kossacks might be interested in helping out, especially if they were to find their favorite writers there …. just a thought. Plus, there are the Google ads which most sites seem to have … sounds exciting!

************

adn remember Juan Cole has set up the ME panel at Ykos.
Do people come with seconds, and dueling pistols and a PI in a raincoat. Hey why not.
Marisacat

Lol, someone better warn him ….. these people are not fooliing around. They are ARMED. I know that any police officer I know would never make such a suggestion. One of my friends is married to a NYC Police Capt. The last thing they would recommend is that people shoot it out amongst themselves.

But what was stunning to me about that whole thread, and there is link to another one there, was that the ‘administration’ kept the gun-toting troll and banned the person who I was familiar with as a really good poster. At the very least, both could have banned …. or told to stay away from each other …. tells you where they are on the I/P question, not that we didn’t know already …

************

Lucid, I know what you mean. I’ve had perfectly reasonable discussions on other boards about the I/P situation, even with the usual agitators. But for some reason other boards seem able to control it and see who is the trouble-maker. That ‘ritz’ character is a fake. Wouldn’t be surprised if they know it either … after all, wasn’t it said that ‘Slouise’ was a DH minion/creation? Don’t know for sure, but many of their ‘respected’ posters are not much better … iow, ‘ritz’ is a typical, approved-of ‘kossack’. She would be thrown off any other site ….

It’s funny how unconcerned they are that this person is ready to shoot another kossack, accept their word for it that the police are supporting this and yet, threw the other person off the site … personally I’d feel very unsafe on that board with such a nutcase around …. sanctioned by the administration.

98. marisacat - 24 July 2007

From Chalmer’s review of Legacy of Ashes (link upthread)

LOL

Perhaps the most comical of all CIA clandestine activities — unfortunately all too typical of its covert operations over the last 60 years — was the spying it did in 1994 on the newly appointed American ambassador to Guatemala, Marilyn McAfee, who sought to promote policies of human rights and justice in that country. Loyal to the murderous Guatemalan intelligence service, the CIA had bugged her bedroom and picked up sounds that led their agents to conclude that the ambassador was having a lesbian love affair with her secretary, Carol Murphy. The CIA station chief “recorded her cooing endearments to Murphy.” The agency spread the word in Washington that the liberal ambassador was a lesbian without realizing that “Murphy” was also the name of her two-year-old black standard poodle. The bug in her bedroom had recorded her petting her dog. She was actually a married woman from a conservative family. [p. 459]

99. Intermittent Bystander - 24 July 2007

Mind you this particular Emirate is light on oil. No matter, it’s blessed with excellent clay, and a business ethic. Biggest ceramic factory in the world. Mostly staffed by “modestly paid” workers from India.

oow at #93 – I’m guessing yesterday’s aborted Gonzales thread was a technical accident with a draft diary all set to spring during or after testimony today. Maybe he had some filler ready in case Gonzales didn’t (against all odds) cough up such quotabe blabber today.

Oops, wrong button!

Just a thought.

100. Intermittent Bystander - 24 July 2007

98 – Hilarious!

We have smart bombs, but can’t even spy on a poodle.

101. marisacat - 24 July 2007

LOL

if they were going to spy in her, frankly it would be wise to know the name of the family pet.

yeah, what a hoot.

102. Miss Devore - 24 July 2007

unravel this CIA:

beauty ears. beauty nose. beauty toes.

103. outofwater - 24 July 2007

Competition? MC needs to go public. I’ll be the first bidder.

104. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 July 2007

a small defense of Theoria …

he gave the first pushback to Shut your fucking piehole, and he encouraged me (along w/ a few others) to stretch out and write at Liberal Street Fighter. Maybe he was too willing to buckle under later (resulting in the decisions that caused Marisacat to leave LSF), but I think it was a question of nerve and personal circumstance rather than politics. Maybe I’m wrong. Anyway, I was a mouse when it came to asserting myself until he and Marisacat and Wilfred and others encouraged me, and for that I’m forever grateful.

105. Intermittent Bystander - 24 July 2007

Re Sand Castle on Wide Angle: Youthful and articulate talking head from the New America Foundation talks about how the UAE (particularly Dubai) and American corps profited from 9/11. Doing billion-dollar deals with sheiks over there, so we don’t have to do them over here.

Now it’s POV, and Prison Town, USA.

In the 1990s, at the height of the prison-building boom, a prison opened in rural America every 15 days. “Prison Town, USA” tells the story of Susanville, California, one small town that tries to resuscitate its economy by building a prison — with unanticipated consequences.

106. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 July 2007

U.S. Is Seen in Iraq Until at Least ’09:

While Washington is mired in political debate over the future of Iraq, the American command here has prepared a detailed plan that foresees a significant American role for the next two years.

The classified plan, which represents the coordinated strategy of the top American commander and the American ambassador, calls for restoring security in local areas, including Baghdad, by the summer of 2008. “Sustainable security” is to be established on a nationwide basis by the summer of 2009, according to American officials familiar with the document.

The detailed document, known as the Joint Campaign Plan, is an elaboration of the new strategy President Bush signaled in January when he decided to send five additional American combat brigades and other units to Iraq. That signaled a shift from the previous strategy, which emphasized transferring to Iraqis the responsibility for safeguarding their security.

That new approach put a premium on protecting the Iraqi population in Baghdad, on the theory that improved security would provide Iraqi political leaders with the breathing space they needed to try political reconciliation.

The latest plan, which covers a two-year period, does not explicitly address troop levels or withdrawal schedules. It anticipates a decline in American forces as the “surge” in troops runs its course later this year or in early 2008. But it nonetheless assumes continued American involvement to train soldiers, act as partners with Iraqi forces and fight terrorist groups in Iraq, American officials said.

Empire uber alles.

107. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 July 2007
108. Intermittent Bystander - 24 July 2007

Holy fuck in Pooristan: Dad gets laid off as an aircraft painter during layoffs after 9/11, steals $28 in tuna, bread, and mac and cheese to feed his wife and two kids (one an infant).

Mom and dad go to jail, kids go to foster care. Mom gets out quicker, but dad does 16 months in prison, then parole with drug testing, alcohol ban, no firearms, etc. And has to live (and find work) in the prison town, while he’s doing it.

The only part that makes public sense is the firearms, no?

109. moiv - 24 July 2007

MitM –

Anyway, I was a mouse when it came to asserting myself until he and Marisacat and Wilfred and others encouraged me, and for that I’m forever grateful.

Me, too. :)

110. moiv - 24 July 2007

# 107 –

I first heard details of the Hutto camp in Taylor in an email from flamenco artists Teye y Belén, who held a Christmas Eve vigil there.

Teye & Belen Flamenco Gypsy Candlelight Christmas Eve Vigil for the Incarcerated Children

What initially seemed the most unlikely way to enjoy Christmas eve turned into one of the most beautiful and moving season celebrations I have ever experienced.

Yes, it was raining, and it was cold. Cold and wet to break out a quality flamenco guitar and play it. Cold to do a performance out in the open air. We were forced to improvise a makeshift construction to huddle under: consisting of our suburban, our lightshow stand, a microphone stand, a tarp and some bungee cords, and in the end, with all the candles, it almost resembled a nativity scene.

Initially there were only a few of us, but as the hour of the vigil went by, more and more people came, local people but also those who drove in from Dallas, McAllen, Houston, Del Rio. (For those not familiar with either the vastness of Texas or its speed limits, we are talking three, four, even seven hours of driving in bad weather!)

People of all ages held a candle, huddled under the improvised canopy or held umbrellas, and we enjoyed the closeness that comes from a common cause.

What was our cause? We were there to protest the incarceration in concrete prison cells, in prison uniforms, of CHILDREN, in a for-profit prison, with our tax money ($ 95 per detainee per day, that amounts to more than two million dollars a month for this prison alone), right here in the USA, self-proclaimed most special of all countries on earth.

We were here to provide a ray of hope to those inside the prison (for although our initial offer to the prison of a free Flamenco performance for the detainees and staff went unanswered and we were forced to do it on the street, rumor of such a gathering will surely find its way into the cells!) and to let them know that there are many Americans who care and will put an end to this.
:::
While organizing this Vigil, we’ve come upon NEW AND DISTURBING FACTS (thanks Jay Johnson, for the research):

–The prison took it out on the detainees: it has taken away recreational privileges as a direct result of last weeks’ march and vigil. You may ask, why go ahead with the Christmas Vigil? According to a lady who is in touch with those inside, the detainees much preferred their privileges on hold over the feeling of total isolation that they had experienced before.

–The phenomenon of putting children in concrete cells is spreading like an ugly cancer. People who reacted to the Flamenco Newsletters that we sent out all over the world have informed us that the Netherlands, Great Britain, France, Australia, are now all doing it. Some further research quickly revealed that the prisons in those countries are all built and run by… THE SAME CORPORATIONS AS THOSE WHO RUN THEM IN THE USA. Globalization at its finest.

–These are For-Profit-Prisons indeed: the ONLY way for the detainees to contact anyone on the outside is by means of telephone. And while the actual cost of a phone call is known to us all, the detainees’ only way of calling out is by purchasing a $ 20 PHONE CARD, good for 20 MINUTES. First, this makes it impossible for those who do not have $ 20 to call outside, second, for someone who may not speak the local language, 20 minutes is nothing, third, the corporation makes additional profit by selling 20 minutes for 20 dollars.

–Initially, the number of detainees in the prison in Taylor was given as 400, half of whom are children. It turns out however that at the time of writing, this prison is filled over capacity: more than 650 detainees are inside, over half of whom are children.

Please let it sink in: 350 CHILDREN IN CONCRETE PRISON CELLS AT CHRISTMAS 2006, IN THE USA, 35 MILES FROM THE CAPITOL OF TEXAS. Merry Christmas.

–Supposedly the children and their mothers are in the concrete cells so that the families may be together (according to the official statement). How to explain then, that the fathers were shipped out to different prisons, in Colorado and elsewhere?

–The prison as it exists in Taylor today is in grave violation of … their own contract with Williamson County, where it states explicitly: “NO RAZOR WIRE”. Of course, since razor wire is a cheap and secure way of preventing escape, and since this is a prison that must make profit, rolls and rolls of razor wire have been installed.

111. Intermittent Bystander - 24 July 2007

I promise I’m not a paid plant, in the pocket of a PR dept for public TV or documentary filmmaking, but Prison Town USA is worth seeing. Wherever, whenever. Wish it was showing on 50 channels, right now. Wake up America and all that.

112. liberalcatnip - 24 July 2007

re: kos’s post yesterday about impeaching Gonzales:

premature blogjaculation™?

113. bayprairie - 24 July 2007

premature blogjaculation™?

or shill no whine before its time.

114. XP - 24 July 2007

Thanks MitM

Yeah I was there, it was a sad sight to see and honestly, I would do it all over again, even if it meant being arrested because CCA called the cops on me for trespassing. To hell with them. I plan to be back next month and the month after that too.

115. Revisionist - 24 July 2007

Hillary cant this buy this will all her money:

By now most Ron Paul supporters have grown a pretty thick skin and are used to being called spammers. This weekend, instead of griping about the usual unfair media treatment, a group of these “fictitious” persons decided to use the unflattering moniker to help a group of needy children. In a move as generous and kind as Ron Paul himself, these “non-existing” supporters decided to not only attend the Spartanburg rally, but to bring a present for a local charity as well: SPAM. These “non-entities” managed in one and half days, to put a large food drive together, gathered all of the funds for the event, and found several kind supporters willing to drive the trucks and bring in the food in Ron Paul’s honor.

They arrived in multiple waves on Saturday morning until noon, 7/21/07, with their generous donation for the Spartanburg Children’s Shelter. The name and address for the shelter was also posted for supporters who wanted to give money directly to the charity. By noon, several supporters were there to help stack the food into a 3 foot high by 8 foot long wall of cans and boxes (only a few cans were actually Spam, the supporters felt that variety was better for the health of the children. No offense meant to the Spam company.)

116. XP - 24 July 2007

Each time there has been a vigil, they do not let the kids go out and play nor the parents. You cannot help but wonder, if they know we are out there wanting to end their nightmare.

117. cad - 24 July 2007

hillary was an embarassment in that sham debate. she actually said she was “agnostic” on the issue of nuclear power. after 30 years of energy debate, she hasn’t formed an opine yet. not til she sees her energy contributor list…

118. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 July 2007

thanks for keeping up updated XP … how can we call ourselves civilized while we treat human beings like this?

119. Tuston - 24 July 2007

Whew! Just back from the salt mine and I’ve juice left to post a little something before I go to bed.

XP: Keep up the good fight, ‘mano. I don’t know if they know you’re there but the fact the there are good folks to “man” the vigil is significant.

My buddies’ band Planet Jam does a song about the inhumanity of borders called “Los Quatro (sic) Vientos” (hey, Marius is from Romania, so I don’t bust his chops for misspelling in spanish, ‘specially since my spelling and grammar es muy pobre tambien)

Buenos Nachos, I gotta get some sleep…

120. ms_xeno - 24 July 2007

Who cares about some hot-tub-guacamole-war-profiteer-town’s stoopid blackout ?

#95 just made my Vapid-O-Meter overload. The needle flew halfway across the living room in the ensuing explosion and struck the far wall above the marble fireplace, leaving a fist-sized burnt patch on a priceless Kinkeade picture of the Kos Family Mansion.

I hope you’re all happy. >:

121. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 July 2007

Lol, someone sees through the smoke and mirrors of the O’Reilly/Daily Kos/Hillary to the rescue of the netroots, formerly hated now beloved of same Netroots!

I’m calling bullshit (0+ / 2-)
Trollrated by:ROGNM, Andrew40

i’m a conspiracy nut, it’s what i do. but hillary and rupert are evidently thick as thieves. and o’reilly, the easiest target in the world, just happens to go buck wild on DKos a few days before she’s supposed to make an appearance there? fuck no. o’reilly’s hamfisted bullshit was WAY worse than usual and made absolutely no sense from a broadcasting perspective. he had no audience members he could possibly gain by going off like that. the clinton people set this shit up on us like it was tee ball.

“Language is the liquid that we’re all dissolved in. Great for solving problems after it creates them.” –Isaac Brock, indie rocker imitating wittgenstein

by Beyondo98 on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 07:26:48 PM PDT

He was troll-rated into hidden comments … I’m sure Daou has been talking to the Harlem-lunch-with-Bill crowd, secretly now of course, to see how they can turn Hillary into an Internet Star. It’s going to be tough …

Hillary is hugely unpopular at DK (Francis Hollland was one of her most vocal supporters there and they chased him off) and in general around the blogs. She is one of the few candidates who has not yet posted on DK. I think she would be slammed, on the war etc.

But what if she became a hero? What if she stood up to a hated rightwing talkshow host and defended DK, right before Yrlykos? They could kill two birds with one stone. Lots of media coverage for Yrlykos and a softening of the attitude of ‘netizens’ towards Hillary?

And since she’s friends with Rupert now, O’Reilly could be used, easily, maybe even without his cooperation. All they had to do was show him some comments he could go off on ….

Imagine that comment on DK …… lol! Anyway, I haven’t seen it but Hillary sent someone from her campaign to go ‘head-to-head with O’Reilly’ tonight …. soooo exciting. Fox and DK, a perfect match.

**********

Re DK and Impeaching Gonzo, I suppose they think this will placate (or fool) the ‘Impeachniks’! This is probably the bone for the base … they really don’t get it.

Anyhow, Pyrrho lets Armando know who does get it, which is just about everyone but the BBBs. I wish they’d stop insulting our intelligence … or trying to.

problem (none / 0) (#25)
by pyrrho on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 07:53:48 PM EST

Hunter is always wrong… e.g. he said the gang of 14 deal would ensure mean the filibuster WOULD be used on bad SCOTUS nominees, and the TANG memoes, and …

I suppose the reason is it’s legally good, and I think it should happen, but it’s politically stupid compared to going after Bush, a name and person Americans have some framework to understand.

You might as well have impeached Libby.

not that it matters, blogs are not where impeachment is coming from… that’s obvious… really arrogant of them to suddenly try to convince people the wisdom of something they’ve previous-wise been banning over.

“free speech”!

************

Bbanning over? (none / 0) (#27)
by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 08:20:13 PM EST

Last I looked, Meteor Blades and KagroX were impeachment central.
Oh by the way, Ic alled for Gonzo’s impeachment in January. You can look it up.

***********

I remember (none / 0) (#34)
by pyrrho on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 09:52:17 PM EST

what I don’t know is why you don’t see that Hunter on the bandwagon, e.g., is not a sign that they’ve “got it”…
as far as banning, of course, who knows why they ban, it’s all secret and stuff… so one speculates, but yes, I know of people chased off dkos for “impeachment porn”.

I know, I know, we’re supposed to think theirs is just “good timing”… as if we would have gotten here if everyone shut up about it when they said.

Interesting how he totally missed the point. Yes, banning, banning people who supported Impeaching these criminals ..

Funny too how Big Tent will not condemn the site that banned him, something Kagrox reminded people of recently in a not very flattering way …. makes me think it’s all a big game …

Pyrrho is right – if only we had been ‘patient’ and listened to their wisdom. If we had, there would be no talk of impeaching Gonzo now.

For Big Tent’s information. Kagro and Meteor Blades are NOT Impeachment Central. The diaries are where Impeachment Central have been, under attack from Kos Central since last Fall. Meteor Blades just a few days ago, attacked again, those who support it, and personally smeared one of the most sincere proponents of impeachment on dk. Then he attempted to usurp the issue …

Kagro has been for it but the main proponents of removing the criminals from office on dk, have been the many diarists, including Unitary Moonbat, Opol, Rusty and so many others. And to their shame, DK ridiculed and harassed not just the diarists but anyone who supported them.

As Pyrrho said, many were banned from those diaries and Kos himself called them ‘Impeachment Porn’. Now, a habit with DK, they intend to take credit should impeachment become inevitable. And to his shame, Big Tent is helping them by crediting only the late-comers, Kagro and MB. Yet he witnessed firsthand and tried to stop, the abuse of the ‘administration’ towards diarists as early as last Fall ..

Big Tent is quick to call others ‘dishonest’. His claim that Kagrox and Meteor Blades are Impeachment Central on DK is dishonest. He is so intent on making DK look good he throws the truth out the window. DK was pushed back by its members and forced to leave Impeachment ‘on the table’ there at least.

Pyrrho, airc, fought the thugs, Hunter and DHinMi fiercely on Opol’s behalf. Hunter attacked him in a particularly nasty way completely losing control, I remember. It was revealig to many as to Hunter’s real character … never forgot it, it was pretty frghtening to see a grown man, well two of them, DHinMi also, that enraged over a diary.

Activists across the country have been bombarding their Reps for months and months to do SOMETHING. DK just yesterday, mocked the efforts of those hundreds of people who were at Conyers’ office. accompanied by another Banned Kossack, David Swanson. Is there anyone who hasn’t been banned from that awful place?

What they will be remembered for as Pyrrho tried to say, is doing everything they could to hamper the efforts being made, and many people just went eslewhere like Cindy Sheehan and David Swanson, and continued to do what they could not on DK, They left Dk behind.

Sad to see him do this … he knows firsthand how they went after Opol and those who appreciated his efforts as he was instrumental in helping to fend off DK’s Administrators who were intent on banning Opol, and did ban many who supported him.

I just wish they’d be honest. I’m disgusted by MB’s attacks on those sincere people who were way ahead of him and by his superior attitude towards people to whom he ought to show respect, eg, Rusty

If he wants respect he needs to apologize publicly to Rusty1776 for his false accusation, and for backing up the thugs who went after him and to make sure they stop their harassment. And most of all, for his diary in which he attacked only those who were the victims for months of the ‘diary kops’. He can pretend, with Armando’s help to ‘Impeachment Central’ but he won’t be fooling many ~ the record is there …

122. marisacat - 24 July 2007

Don’t miss this in the LA Tmes… after the Gitlin slurp there the other day, well.. seems to be a shill stop – for Ykos.

The machination of the DLC “conversation” in TN being “missed”, passed on etc by all candidates seems to me to be tactical (they all trooped to the Denver conversation last summer). The Dems are not snubbing Reed and From. LOL. They are not.

123. marisacat - 24 July 2007

To be frank… and only because I had to wear hip boots to get thru it all do I bother now, pyrrho was a staunch supporter (I would say drooler) for Armando — for years.

LOL. If you supported the Boyz, you had to choose sides, pretty much.

Note the list of who pyrrho “opposed”. Armando’s enemies.

I was not too impressed at the time.

124. marisacat - 24 July 2007

LOL

BTW, pyrrho has a post up FP at WIngless on the Bambenek filing.

pardon me while I laugh really hard:

Back when kos was pushing for a general internet exception which would have made all campaigning online exempt, a move that was transparently self serving and showed that Kos does indeed have an ideology when it comes to business, and business only, I argued such a law was not needed, that blogs would be regarded as press entities.

But I didn’t take into account the fact that the site would not be a collection of progressives, but a Democratic Party machine.

As Adam B links at DailyKos, many on the right agree with him that this is an assault on free speech. Personally, I don’t see the speech at community blogs as “free”, the speech is controlled. The influence by a peer community is one thing, something able to keep a site focussed on progressive politics, conservative politics, knitting, whatever the core community has made it, but the wanton use of banning of people that disagree with the Democratic party, or object to business practices, or have some personal opinion (e.g. CT) is clearly not an example of “free speech”.

Don’t know what he missed during 2004 and 05 and esp as a special friend of Armando.

125. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 July 2007

Mitm and Moiv, I can’t imagine you guys as ‘mice’! Maybe, the Mice that Roared’ – okay, I can …. lol!

Rotfl, Miss xeno, we understand, really …. #95

Bayprairie and Catnip, too funny … we’ll add these to our Vag lore:

premature blogjaculation™? catnip

Cad - I think what Hillary means is she’s waiting to be told what to say about nuclear power …

Marisacat, that CIA story is a riot … reminds me of Inspector Clouseau …

Tuston goodnight, get some rest …. the band sounds cool …

XP Thank you for what you do. It is another horror story and I’m sure most Americans are not aware of this at all. As Mitm said, and I am speechless – but how can we do this to other human beings?

What kind of monsters would punish little children like this and then punish them again because people just want to be kind to them? There are no words. This is what privatization has done … are there no advocacy groups to help these people?

Torture and incarceration are big business. This is all we can think to do to make money …. my horror meter is off the wall … whoever’s idea this was should be in jail themselves ….

Btw, I love your blog – one of the best, most compassionate writers on the interent –

*********

126. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 July 2007

Oops, forgot this one from Bayprairie

shill no whine before its time.

I love that … it’s perfect!

Intermittent Bystander, thanks for the link to the ‘prison town’. Can’t think why anyone would want to build a prison to help the economy. Can’t we be more imaginative? Going to read the rest …

127. liberalcatnip - 24 July 2007

shill no whine before its time.

No doubt. Did anyone ever get an answer about why his prematurely blogjaculated post about Abu’s impeachment was pulled?

XP, good for you for continuing to protest at Hutto. I covered that place in depth when they detained a 9 yr old Canadian boy and his Iranian parents there. They were finally released to Canada. The whole incident was very eye-opening and extremely disturbing.

128. liberalcatnip - 24 July 2007

Just FYI, John at AMERICAblog is shilling for donations to build a better blog that could provide some competition for dkos.

Our goal: raise $20,000 by Aug. 15 to build a new online community, AMERICAblog 2.0. We’ve completed design of AMERICAblog 2.0′s new home page, and are now looking to hire a designer to build a new community where you can create your own blog, vote on your favorite content, network with fellow A-bloggers [oh, yay! -catnip] and more.

He also says that “ad sales have fallen dramatically the past few months.”

129. marisacat - 24 July 2007

LOL Aravosis… another former R, a DC operative (forget whose office he was an aide in) before he was a ”blogger”.

Like Daou, whatever the moniker whatever the “gig”, an “ad man” IMO.

Oh right. Just what is needed. MORE OF THE SAME.

130. marisacat - 24 July 2007

I have Prison Town on now.

Unbelievably depressing.

The little family that committted “commercial burglary” is just heartbreaking. Cans of tuna and bread.

131. frtitzcat - 24 July 2007

SHEARTS–THANKS FOR ALL THE LOVING LAUGHTER IN MY THREADS TODAY. i AM ALWAYS SO HAPPY TO MUCH AMUSE YOU, SOMETIMES EVEN SEND YOU INTO THE ZENITH OF COMEDY.

THIS ABILITY OF MINE TO MAKE YOU LAUGH–ITS WHY YOU KEEP TAKING ME BACK INTO YOUR HEARTS ISNT IT, EVEN THOUGH I SPIT IN YOUR FACE AND CHEAT OON YOU WHEN YOUR BACK IS TURNED…???

ISNT S/M GRAND???

{:o)

132. bayprairie - 24 July 2007

Adam B said

I will vigorously defend this site, and pursue any legal means available to recover from Bambenek the costs of defending against something which seeks to stifle the speech of every member of the site. This aggression will not stand.

nice little fairy tale. doesn’t apply to to “every member” though, since they stifle quite a bit of speech themselves.

:::snip:::

The First Amendment does not apply here.

by BarbinMD on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 01:48:58 PM PDT

IOKIYAD?

133. marisacat - 24 July 2007

Titz no witz.

You want to communicate with 5 hearts, do it at Wingless.

134. D. Throat - 25 July 2007

Yeah… that is why Kos had to get a baseline of Hill’s approval ratings … to take the temperature … we will probably see another one right before YK and one afterwards.

The “Thank You Hill” thread is limp filled with operatives trying to get the masses excited… on commentor noted:

With only 8 recs and 5 comments (6+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
elveta, Alegre, benny05, blueoasis, sephius1, Dem in the heart of Texas

at the time of this writing, this is in the rec list. How does that happen?

by MaverickModerate on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 06:35:48 PM PDT

I always wondered how the Boyz were going to hoodwink the Blogosphere into supporting Hilliary… she has had there support (ie paid for) from the beginning… the question was how to transfer that to the unpaid progressive community.

One thing the Dems do know… is how to used smoke in mirrors…

135. D. Throat - 25 July 2007

Good one Bay (132) sums up their hypocrisy completely.

136. lucid - 25 July 2007

Side note on Theoria. He was someone who initially drew me to Dkos. I’d been lurking without registering for about 8 months when I saw a post of his about how he’d been completely fucked over on his place to stay during the convention in NYC in 2004. I e-mailed him that night [not even being a registered member] offering my place under the conditions that he didn’t mind cats and he didn’t mind pot.

Apparently he’s terribly allergic to cats.

I really don’t know what went down between you and he Mcat. I always got the sense that he was more on the “op” side of things rather than really having a soul, but I did like his righteous indignation and photo spreads.

Anyhow… just a side note.

137. D. Throat - 25 July 2007

Apology- Bill O’Reilly Has United Us

These supposed attacks on DK are only meant to “rally the troops”… within days you will hear for calls for unity against the “other”.

138. D. Throat - 25 July 2007

I guess you could say that BillO has been the one man Blogosphere 911 and now we have Hilliary on a mound of rubble with a bullhorn… calming the restless natives.

139. marisacat - 25 July 2007

Very simple: Theoria erased me. He erased a post and 122 comments. Before he did that he sent an email to wilfred Madman and to myself that was unnacceptable to me.

GregNYC (thru sock puppet, Howie,) ws threatening to sue that I had exposed his email (I posted the email he sent me).

He published his email address at both Dkos and at BMT, nor had he nor did he take it down. Last I looked it was still there. I was refusing to remove the email. I also had a legal opinion in hand that he was standing in quick sand.

Madman did x out the email addy. AFTER Madman x’d out the email addy, Theoria erased my entire post and all comments.

I left the site immediately. A few hours later bay told me my post (about Dkos and in particular about GregNYC who had emailed me directly, thus the email of his I published) was erased. Along with all comments.

UNACCEPTABLE and I certainly was not donating my time and writing any longer to any project that theoria was even marginally connected to (we really never heard from him, IMO, he’d drop in and laugh).

140. D. Throat - 25 July 2007

Whoa!!! Just looked at the MyDD bullshit

Conservatives Heart Hillary?

This on the same day that she’s up 3 points in the dailyKos straw poll (What he forgets to mention is that she up up from 6 to 9 …next is other at 7). Is Clinton proving that she CAN run a primary and general election campaign all at once? It’s starting to look like it.

Quite an interesting read… if you read between the lines… internals must be showing that Gore will wipe her off the map if she can not get progressives on board. Her national polling is like that of Lieberman at the beginning of 2003 high because of name recognition… but very soft… even the high numbers of Obama and Edwards are very soft.

This new “meme” that even the Republicans like her… can anyone say “LIEBERMAN”…. will the only way that Hill can pull off a win in Nov if Gore enters the race … is to run a LIEBERMANESQUE general election counting on the GOP vote….!!!

I think that they are leaking a bit too much information!!!!!

141. marisacat - 25 July 2007

DT

seems the big meme around is that R will vote for her. I posted yesterday or so a post in one of the big conservative mags… Maybe National Rev that she is the most conservative of the Dems and there fore fully tolerable in a tough run.

Its a theme song

142. marisacat - 25 July 2007

New Thread

LINK

143. XP - 25 July 2007

#118 – MitM
I have asked myself that question every time. What is even more frustrating, is going to a public place where the television station is on CNN or whatever news station and they happen to be talking about Iraq, and yet, when I look around, it is almost non-existent to them. They all are sitting there happily chatting away with hardly a care in the world, while families half way across the are losing love ones by our bombs launched by us.

#119 – Tuston
Thanks! It is too bad your buddy is in Romania, from what I have been told by the contact person for these organized vigils, they are always looking for bands who are willing to provide entertainment.

#125 – Sabrina Ballerina
Thank you for your kinds words. There are advocacy groups who are trying to help these people, but they just get overshadowed by junk news or the fact that nobody is willing to mention them on the news. You also have individuals like doing things that would have made the news in not-so-distant past, but now is just a blurb. People like Jay Johnson-Castro who did several solo marches and we are talking about long marches that consisted of over hundred’s of miles. Earlier this year, he was going to do a march from San Diego to Brownsville, TX to protest the border wall, but that is when Congress fooled people into think the wall was not going to be built.

#127 – liberalcatnip
I was meaning to thank you for blogging about Hutto and that little boy. You and Annamarie were a great source of information. I couldn’t spend as much time as I wanted too because it was happening the same week my sister was getting married. So I had to sneak a post or two early in the morning before people woke up.
*************

I am really appalled by the fact that Kos, a son born here to immigrant parents, refuses to address this issue. When people talk about anchor babies, earth-to-Kos, they are talking about you pendejo. I understand that he may not want to talk about immigration 24/7, but come on, you would think when you have people like Dodds and other xenophobes who also happen to be Democrats demanding that all immigrants and every anchor baby be deported, he would take issue because the natavists can easily call him an anchor baby.

144. ms_xeno - 25 July 2007

Too, late, XP. Kos has stuffed both ears with $$$$ and he can’t hear you. If those babies were worthy, they’d stuff $$$$ in their ears, too. Why can’t these people just understand the way things work and attend to their own problems ? Kos is a bu$y, bu$y man. He doesn’t have time for this. Tsk.

145. XP - 25 July 2007

sadly, your right.

146. bayprairie - 25 July 2007

GregNYC (thru sock puppet, Howie,) ws threatening to sue that I had exposed his email (I posted the email he sent me).

He published his email address at both Dkos and at BMT, nor had he nor did he take it down. Last I looked it was still there. I was refusing to remove the email. I also had a legal opinion in hand that he was standing in quick sand.

Madman did x out the email addy. AFTER Madman x’d out the email addy, Theoria erased my entire post and all comments.

I left the site immediately. A few hours later bay told me my post (about Dkos and in particular about GregNYC who had emailed me directly, thus the email of his I published) was erased. Along with all comments.

UNACCEPTABLE and I certainly was not donating my time and writing any longer to any project that theoria was even marginally connected to (we really never heard from him, IMO, he’d drop in and laugh).

ourword received the same threat, due to the fact the GregNYC letter in question was posted in a comment to a post. ourword followed madman’s lead and removed the email addy only. the email marisa speaks of still resides at that site, sans addy, in a comment about halfway down under the heading “GregNYC is heard from:


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