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“Against all enemies, foreign and domestic… “ 26 July 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, U.S. House.
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     photo from Fog City Journal

Does she hear… herself?

 “”The Constitution gives the Congress a crucial role in overseeing the Executive Branch in order to protect the American people against overreaching, incompetence, and corruption,” she said in a statement.

Call Gump’s, pronto.  Nan has no necklace….  Rustle up a quick shipment of South Seas pearls.  I’d love to pay – and would prefer to pay – attention to her words and not the fashion miss, but the words are fictional, on her part.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

   

Mr. Murtha predicted that the central showdown over the withdrawal plan would come in September, after the Congressional recess. He said he had indications that more Republicans and some in the military might be ready at that time to rally behind his latest proposal.

“When you get to September, this is history, this is when we are going to have a real confrontation with the president,” Mr. Murtha told reporters. “I see signals that things are going to get worked out.”

How many times in how many ways can they say the same thing

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

        

Yearwood, who is a chaplain in the Air Force, said that Conyers had been a mentor to him, but he declared that he now felt betrayed and that Americans needed to take back their government. As he was led down the hall to his arraignment, the handcuffed Yearwood pointedly sang “We Shall Overcome!”

This reporter subsequently called Conyers’ press office for an explanation of Conyers’ true position on impeachment. Only a few days earlier the congressman, visiting a San Diego meeting on health care reform, had told members of Progressive Democrats of America that it was time to “take these two guys (Bush and Cheney) out” and had promised that if just “three members” of the House came to him and asked for an investigation into impeachable crimes by Bush and Cheney, he would move such a resolution forward for consideration in his Judiciary Committee.

Asked how that statement squared with what he had told the group of activists in his office, the spokesman said Conyers’ “must have been misunderstood” in San Diego (the problem with that is that there is a video of him saying it. Couldn’t they at least be honest about it?).

He said that in view of Conyers’ statement to Sheehan and the others today, the Kucinich bill was “not going to go anywhere.”

Not bothering to wonder if Conyers can hear himself.

She did not say from what quarter the charges come, but from a piece Sheehan has up at Buzzflash (Cindy Sheehan: Justice Should be Color-Blind), she and Ray McGovern are being called racists for insisting Conyers do his job… one that he promised would be done with the election of Democrats (Congressman John Conyers Betrays the American People). 

Of course, I can recall that in May of 2006 he also had an opinion piece placed in the Wapo saying he would not seek impeachment.

They’ll say anything…

*****************************************************************

UPDATE, 12:55 pm

   Reuters photo

U.S. President George W. Bush (C) walks with U.S. Army Sgt. Neil Duncan (L) and U.S. Army Specialist Max Ramsey after jogging at the White House in Washington July 25, 2007. Duncan lost both legs in Afghanistan in December 2005 and Ramsey lost his left leg in Iraq in March 2006. (UNITED STATES)    [REUTERS/Larry Downing]

Isn’t that sweet, one from each of the wars.  The WH did not wish to discriminate… I am sure that was it.

**********************************************

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Comments»

1. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

So let me get this straight… We’re making progress because they’re willing to complain about a criminal Attorney General while the Administration continues to flaunt the Law. While the fruitless (for the rest of Us), illegal War Continues….

It’s not PROGRESS when your just doing your job to Break Even – and THE”RE NOT EVEN DOING THAT!

It’s a GOD DAMN DISGRACE WHEN YOU”RE WILLFULLY NOT
DOING YOUR JOB AND LOSING GROUND!

2. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

re; Seehan and McGovern tagged with racism for being pushing Conyers to do his job.

Let me give you my could give a sit UPFRONT:

We’ve lost so much ground that the GOP are practically tying up their horses on Conyers in front of the Capitol. Man of the House,indeed.

3. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

* SHIT – I could give a shit
THEY’RE ALL LAWN JOCKEYS
AWAITING CHENEY AND THE HORSE HE RODE IN ON
HOPIN SOME DAY THEY”LL HAVE A HORSE OF THEIR OWN..

4. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

Conyers cashed in on the “right behind you, brother” bullshit lathered on activists in the anti war movement out of Detroit and Chicago, the empathy shown the large populace of Arab Americans in and around Detroit.

Now he’s holding reigns in DC. Unfuckingbelievable.

5. Miss Devore - 26 July 2007

Blogland Security:

“#
It would be great if during a blogswarm (8+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
shpilk, farleftcoast, snacksandpop, rb608, Ekaterin, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, donnamarie, gchaucer2

from trolls, Kos could sorta suspend habeus up-ratey-ness so as to temporarily deny new members the ability to defeat our TRs.
Oops. I’m sounding like Lou Dobbs, aren’t I?

by sgary on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 11:46:03 PM PDT

#
Good diary, shpilk (9+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
OLinda, shpilk, Goldfish, rb608, sgary, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, gchaucer2, terrapin station84, NogodsnomastersMary

So many of the TUs will be busy at YK in a week. I wish it were possible to get a temporary increase in our daily donut allotment.

But keeping the TRs to two per post is good advice……hope it works!

Impeach…..before it’s too late.

by Ekaterin on Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 12:01:07 AM PDT

#
Also please do not uprate flagrant trolls!… (10+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
shpilk, farleftcoast, rb608, Ekaterin, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, pgm 01, donnamarie, gchaucer2, demoKatz, NogodsnomastersMary

…Kos and almost all the Front Pagers have discouraged uprating obvious flagrant trolls. You all know who they are. They write a trollish imflammatory diary and don’t have a tip jar or even a first comment. Or they hijack a thread. Look at their comments history. If they’re habitual offenders or have no history chances are they came from Bill Orally’s or from some other repub sites’ hatchet crew. How else can autoban kick in if we keep uprating them?

Thanks for the “heads up” shipilk!

“Our past patriots are spinning in their graves. Did they all die for this tyranny?” Change Course. Change Captains. Change crews. But save the ship!

by ImpeachKingBushII”

6. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

Let’s take a look at another sell out… John McCain

Not my cup of tea to begin with but accorded respect in the context of his own life circumstances. It is a story as old as Midas. In McCain’s case , his instilled duty turned raw ambition, his desire for influence turned lust for power, his journey seeking personal vindication came at a cost of selling out the very core character values he (claims to have) held most dear. Honor and Integrity, a lawful mission over any one man. It’s hardly a stretch to say McCain’s quest has much to do with cloaking imself in the approval of the ghosts of his deceased father and grandfather, Legendary Navy Brass each.

But alas, in life one can not surround oneself in the company of deceased men, much less seek their counsel and approval. He went nose deep in a paid entourage of cheerleaders, yes-men and image consultants instead.

From the Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118539592996077778.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

Political ad-makers Russ Schriefer and Stuart Stevens, veterans of President Bush’s 2000 and 2004 campaigns, on Monday emailed the new campaign manager — lobbyist and longtime McCain adviser Rick Davis — to say that they were quitting. The two men told friends they had considered leaving for days, as they hadn’t been paid and the campaign’s financial straits raised questions of when and how much they would be.

Their resignations followed a story in The Wall Street Journal Monday about Mr. Davis’s business and lobbying activities. Current and former McCain campaign advisers say those activities — which involved a business he started and another launched by an acquaintance of his — amounted to profiteering at the campaign’s expense and risked embarrassing the senator.Their resignations followed a story in The Wall Street Journal Monday about Mr. Davis’s business and lobbying activities. Their resignations followed a story in The Wall Street Journal Monday about Mr. Davis’s business and lobbying activities.

Current and former McCain campaign advisers say those activities — which involved a business he started and another launched by an acquaintance of his — amounted to profiteering at the campaign’s expense and risked embarrassing the senator.

.
.

Sound like any moth-to-the-orange-flame- folks we know? -BHHM

7. supervixen - 26 July 2007

Surprise surprise, Elise talking about her remarkable rack again:

I never really thought about my body (10+ / 0-)
Recommended by: DebtorsPrison, tryptamine, vcmvo2, Ice Blue, va dare, shaharazade, jessical, kath25, crose, kyril

at all until I turned 11 and my breasts started growing. I kind of noticed them, but the thing that sort of really made me aware that my whole body was changing was that my sisters and I used to run to this gas station about a block from our house. We could squeeze through a hole in the fence or we could walk 4 blocks around- well, all of a sudden my hips were there- and I couldn’t quite get through that hole so easily anymore. I was able to squeeze through for another year or so- but after that I had to climb over…very frustrating. That was really the first time I noticed the changes myself. I got my period at 12- my mom tried to make a big deal out of it, which I thought was weird. I didn’t have a good relationship with my mom, so I didn’t really want to talk about that stuff with her.

One thing I’ve noticed as I have gotten older is the regularity of my cycle- and I really know the signs. For the first few years I had my cycle I didn’t really notice that sort of stuff- of course, being on the pill helps predict, but even when I’m not on the pill, I can still tell what’s coming each month.

I’m really not coherent tonight…you’ll have to forgive me.

This is a great diary though.

by Elise on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 07:21:43 PM PDT

Yeah… (6+ / 0-)
Recommended by:DebtorsPrison, tryptamine, Ice Blue, jessical, kath25, kyril

I was pretty popular- mine were the biggest in our class from 12 on. My mother would really dress me in some pretty revealing stuff too- like I remember going to our 8th grade dinner dance and my mom dressed me in what was basically a strapless cute little dress – like something you’d wear to homecoming- and everyone else was in gingham and lace ankle-length dresses. Half the fathers were staring at me- very uncomfortable.

There are days I don’t mind them- but yeah, those shirts with the lines under the boobs…ugh- it’s NEVER under…ever.

by Elise on Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 07:51:12 PM PDT

Courtesy of a “Feminizzzzzms” diary where women talk about their bodies, their boobs, their periods and being too fat or too thin.

We women are really nothing but BODIES. Walking cunts and tits. Animated sacks of surging hormones. Our brains are only there so we can worry about how fat/thin we are, and where and how we can find someone to fuck.

No wonder so many people are uninterested in women’s groups, women’s studies, and women’s rights – because so many women are obsessed with their BODIES and can’t talk about anything else. That’s not only boring, but stuck in the wrong paradigm.

What these supposed “feminists” don’t realize is that it plays into every hoary old sexist stereotype of women. The purpose of feminism was/is to enable women to GET PAST being viewed as bodies and sex objects.

SO GET THE FUCK PAST IT, PEOPLE.

8. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

I hadnt had enuff coffee for that SV. Maybe Elise is so fucked up because her momma dressed her as a whore.

9. ms_xeno - 26 July 2007

I was told the other day on another board that my hatred of all the DP front-runners meant I was being racist.

That is, Edwards grand-standing about “don’t-vote-for-me-just-because-you-don’t-like-Hillobama” was lauded and I said he was full of it, and that they all were. Why give somebody a cookie just for saying what they should have said all along ? Why congratulate people for empty rhetoric meant to mask their own venality ?

I don’t mind discussing race-based privileges and the ones I have, but I’m sick of these jerks using legitimate social movements as cheap cologne to cover up the stench of their utter willingness to sell us all out for a nickel.

It’s impossible to have a real dialogue about how the powerful operate in this country if you cannot discuss the way that they use these issues, just as everyone does from the lowest class on up. Edwards isn’t a closet racist despite his actual policies, because he says something nice to placate all the folks he’s helping screw. But I’m a closet racist because I call him a hypocrite for valuing words over deeds, and for saying that at the end of the day, they all do that and it’s a large part of what makes them all so morally repugnant.

10. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

From MLW on thread rearding DK disingenuity and frivolity.
————————————————-

WTF?!!? A Troll Rating?!?! (4.00 / 2)
My, what a big fan of free speech, to think that comment deserves to be eradicated!

Asshat.

Cartoons and cartoonists from the left.
by: dhonig @ Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 21:06:08 PM CDT
[ Parent | Reply ]

Obviously not a troll comment (0.00 / 0)
I rated it up for what it’s worth, not much but still.

I will not die an unlived life. Fuck ‘em, I will not live in fear, I will live out loud and on the record. “there’s nothing you can do about being born liberal — fish gotta swim and hearts gotta bleed,” Molly Ivins
by: caliberal @ Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 21:22:52 PM CDT
[ Parent | Reply ]

you’re right (0.00 / 0)
makes no sense.

-pyrrho-
by: pyrrho @ Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 21:35:21 PM CDT
[ Parent | Reply ]

Captainkillian, please read the Community Info section. (0.00 / 0)

This is the second time I’ve had to tell you that you are abusing the Zero rating.

If you like, I can simply shut off your ability to rate comments at all, if you think perhaps that might help you overcome this apparent inability to distinguish between Total Fucking Bullshit and Worthless Troll Douchebaggery.

Perhaps you hadn’t noticed, but dhonig is a Front Page Contributor here at MLW; as such, he falls outside ANY parameters of Troll-ishness.

Feel free to lob 1 ratings at anyone you like, but please save the zero for the real trolls.

Thank you.

And please don’t make me have to post this again. It’s tedious.

-9.63, -7.03 If I can’t rant, I don’t want to be part of your revolution.
by: Maryscott O’Connor @ Wed Jul 25, 2007 at 21:57:05 PM CDT
[ Parent | Reply ]

Sorry I didn’t notice you (0.00 / 0)
until now. and goddamnit msoc i like you and i’m gonna treat you just like a good friend and tell you to shove it up your ass. I calls ‘em as I sees ‘em.

If I can’t rant, I don’t want to be part of your revolution
by: captainkillian @ Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 01:15:57 AM CDT
[ Parent | Reply ]

11. ms_xeno - 26 July 2007

I keep waiting for the inevitable diary from Elise about how she doesn’t worry about abortion becoming illegal, because she can just shake her money makers at the nearest guy and he’ll fly her to Cancun and pay for everything. :/

12. marisacat - 26 July 2007

LOL

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:

DEMOCRATS CALL FOR A SPECIAL COUNSEL TO INVESTIGATE IF ATTORNEY GENERAL ALBERTO GONZALES PERJURED HIMSELF DURING TESTIMONY ABOUT THE FIRINGS OF U.S. ATTORNEYS

http://abcnews.go.com?CMP=EMC-1396

13. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

Thats how they stretch it out until Xmas break.

14. marisacat - 26 July 2007

BTW, the Lindorff piece on Conyers’ big day arresting people… had this at the bottom… and he links to his Dkos diary (he x posted apparently)

P.S.

If you want to read some incredible apologetics by a bunch of people who claim to be progressives,

go to Daily Kos and read the irate comments of people to this post.

15. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

ms xenoIt’s impossible to have a real dialogue about how the powerful operate in this country

First and formost it is controlling the very language and venues permissable where such debates might be engaged. It is a cabal of convenience not based on any sect or ideology. It has no shortage of prospects willing to serve as guardians at the critical or more highly trafficked “gates”: in Strategic business sectors, Academia, The now consolidated Traditional Media, the newer but already significantly co-opted New Media.

Mcat- A word about my multiple posts this morning. Sorry for the “top heavy” volume – (as close as I’ll come to touching anything Elise )– they were done when no one else was online at the time. FWIW, I have a post on John McCain and another on a bit of a MLW thread in spam, NBD either way as I’ve had plenty of access to say my piece.

16. marisacat - 26 July 2007

BHHM

sorry I searched Spam twice, I only found the one (MLW comments, look upthread).

I see the same McCain posts as when I woke… not mixed in up thread?

I have been getting error screens from WP at times thsi week. If it happens when I’m leaving a comment, sometimes the comment si lost.

A really irritating bug, I’d say… ;(

17. marisacat - 26 July 2007

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:

WALL STREET TUMBLES, ALL THREE MAJOR INDEXES DOWN 2% —

DOW JONES LOSES 300 POINTS

http://abcnews.go.com?CMP=EMC-1396

18. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

A quick clarification where I said

“It the Oligarchy) is a cabal of convenience not based on any sect or ideology.” I should say per se. I assume one accepts the improbable coalition of the “since time immemorial” corporate greedsters with Death grip Rapturistas and Zionists.

19. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

Billo just did a bit about DK on his radio show. I think he is winning. He traffics in this shit. I agree with Billo about that secret service BS that was started.

Billo apparently has also been keeping track of images that have been posted and will reveal something on his Monday TV show.

20. wilfred - 26 July 2007

Leahy finally announces they are going to subpoena Rove today.

Way, way overdue.

21. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

On Wall Street – Ouch! I need to call my broker…..

Oh that’s right – I don’t have a broker! I don’t own any stocks!

22. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

Xeno — we are sending troops to Canada. Please welcome us as liberators

The US army is to enforce a huge security perimeter around the upcoming North American Union meeting in Canada this August as well as cracking down on expected protests, having already shut down a public forum due to take place close to the event.

The Security and Prosperity Partnership meeting in Montebello, Quebec on August 20 and 21 is to be policed by American forces, who along with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) and the Sûreté du Québec (SQ

23. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

There’s something creepy about those Canadians just up there,
looking down on us.

This aggression will not stand.

24. marisacat - 26 July 2007

Maybe Canada should invade Alaska. Please, take Ted Stevens hostage.

25. Miss Devore - 26 July 2007

apologies if this has been posted but no one should miss lieberman comparing the uberwhacko fundamentalist to Moses

http://tinyurl.com/28xxks

worth it for some really bad shiksa dancing, too.

26. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

John Aravosis of Americablog could negoiate on behalf of his old boss.

27. marisacat - 26 July 2007

LA Times has a piece on the Dems moderating not just rhetoric but policy on abortion to appeal to whatelse? fucked religious voters…

From a political perspective, Democratic strategists warn that emphasizing birth control gives voters a bad impression — “that Democrats are just about free love, not morality,” said Rachel Laser, an analyst for the progressive think tank Third Way.

She has been urging Democrats to embrace programs aimed at helping women in crisis keep their pregnancies, in an effort to show voters that “pro-choice” does not mean “pro-abortion.”

The leading Democratic presidential candidates are increasingly making that more nuanced case.

At a recent presidential forum, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York decried the failure of activists on both sides to work together to bring down the number of abortions. She repeated a mantra her husband made famous more than a decade ago: Abortion, she said, should be “safe, legal and rare.”

Then Clinton paused and added deliberately: “And by rare, I mean rare.”

That is the comment wehre I wondered if she meant a baby roasting on a spit.

Who knows with Hillary.

28. Miss Devore - 26 July 2007

the insurgents who couldn’t shoot straight…until the ace “aim-ers” –Iranians– showed them (from rawstory):

“BAGHDAD (AP) – The U.S. military has noted a “significant improvement” in the aim of attackers firing rockets and mortars into the heavily fortified Green Zone in the past three months that it has linked to training in Iran, a top commander said Thursday.”

evacuations: ABC News –white envelope
long beach airport–suspicious luggage

god I hate it when all this stuff is happening and I don’t even have a fab black dress to wear! (well, I do actually, but my friends made me put on weight, so it doesn’t fit)

29. liberalcatnip - 26 July 2007

There’s something creepy about those Canadians just up there,
looking down on us.

All your asses are belong to us.

Thanks for the tip on the invasion of your army – and in Quebec yet. That will not go over well.

30. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

OK. I am going to mention this. (kind of mentioned this the otehr day). I didnt want to in the past because the “walls” have ears. If you go to the image gallery at what is the official kucinich site it is full of “tin foil hattery”. More and more has been posted over the last few days.

Its stuff that, IMO, could kill a political campaign. I dont know if its just some kucinich supporters who arent thinking or if they are plants meant to sabatoge. Someone over at Dennis (TM) really should clean it up before its becomes well known. Unless of course this posters reflect the congressmans opinion.

31. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

Hey Merle! Got a Canuck on that line!@!! :{D] Love ya catnip

32. liberalcatnip - 26 July 2007

Love ya catnip

Sure…I’ll bet you were looking at my boobs when you said that. (rofl)

33. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

Miss D. everyone should see Max’s video where Lieberman aplauds Christianist who believe that “the one who brings Peace to the ME… will be the anti Christ”…

What is more unbelievable is that when you google this conference even the most respectable rags like the BBC conveniently forget to document that Lieberman, Delay and Sanatorum were even ever there.
Not even the Christian Broadcast Network dares to mention that Lieberman was there as Keynote speaker… Lieberman is not even mentioned on Christians United for Israel’s website…. I wonder why????

34. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

The shadows from the North have blocked all light.

35. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

I thought everyone would get a kick out of Adam B. Kos’s lawyer… splaining political donations:

There are two more propositions I’d like to advance which are admittedly more controversial here, but generally accepted in the political science literature and elsewhere:

* Contributions don’t shape a candidates’ views; they reflect what’s already there, and contributions have even less of an impact on a candidates’ views when we’re talking about $2300 (or even a bundled $100K) out of a $50M+ pool. At best, contributions buy access, not results.

* Contributions don’t necessarily reflect one’s business or other self-interests, but often reflect concerns about society at large. Every time someone in the top 1% contributes to a Dem for President, they understand they’re not going to get the Bush tax cuts much longer, but that’s okay — because things like ending the war, attacking poverty, protecting the environment and reforming government matter more.

Until we bring workable public financing to our Presidential and other elections, fuller disclosure’s the best we’re going to do. I’m glad Obama and Clinton have let the sunlight in, and would encourage other candidates to do the same.

36. outofwater - 26 July 2007

SV-I still say Elise is a male porn author. I’d love to see a photograph of him/her, the self-proclaimed physical feminine ideal.

If she isn’t a guy, she is emotionally stuck at about age 13. Most mature women, even those with bodies admired by others, didn’t obsess about them for more than a year after puberty, even if they stay fit. As those healthy women enter adulthood they barely remember puberty. What a freak she is.

37. ms_xeno - 26 July 2007

Revisionist:

Xeno — we are sending troops to Canada. Please welcome us as liberators…

I didn’t know that Oregon was an honorary province, heady talk of uniting with B.C. and WA as “Cascadia” aside. Does B.C. even have any oil ? I think it’s more Catnip and her immediate neighbors who have to worry. Catnip, I’m sorry I’m late with those patterns for the cat-sized flak jackets that I promised you. Terribly busy this week.

38. ms_xeno - 26 July 2007

MissD:

and I don’t even have a fab black dress to wear!

How to make a fab black dress quickly:

Take one sacrificial white or light-colored dress and put it on.

Adopt 2-6 black cats, or visit a friend who has done so.

Roll around on the floor, bed, etc. until dress has abosrbed the proper amount of black cat hairs.

2-6 black cats generate enough hair for a size 6-24X mini to full-length dress.

39. ms_xeno - 26 July 2007

BHHM:

First and formost it is controlling the very language and venues permissable where such debates might be engaged.

FWIW, I’m not demanding the right to run around using the N-word and related terms. I’m just sick of users like HillEdbama getting a free ride from people who ought to know better. I don’t expect anti-racist activists to believe in my good intentions just because I insist that I’ve got some. I don’t expect anyone to give me a free ride as if intentions were enough. But Edwards gets cookies and flowers for doing the same kind of shit on national TV ? I don’t think so.

40. marisacat - 26 July 2007

Revisionist… went to Dennis’ site. Took 15 minutes to get to the Gallery. LOL Waiting for the back pages to load. It could be me (still on dial up) but I wonder a bit…

Thanks for the tip… ;) My guess would be a mix of supporters and organised “helpfullness”…

41. marisacat - 26 July 2007

well a Dallas political writer has declared his (Edwards) campaign dead. As I was reading a recent (this week) ‘in the campaign bus with John and Eliz’ interview last night, I wondered the same.

42. marisacat - 26 July 2007

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:

DOW CLOSES NEARLY 300 POINTS DOWN, ONE OF THE WORST DROPS OF THE YEAR

http://abcnews.go.com?CMP=EMC-1396

43. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

36 Be careful what you ask for, oow

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=dailykos%20elise&w=all&s=int

Elise on the left , sister on right who was well adjusted IIRC

And Kossacks: Don’t Panic, sheeple. No need to take pics down, Delete diaries etc. They’re already privately archived. I mean Christ, you’ve only been compulsively self aggrandizing online for years now. You shouldn’t worry about the embarrassment. I know Roger Ailes has screen shots of all of this kind of vanity, including Del Dems psychotic Break, Markos and Pastor Dan’s hypocrisy, Hode’s Congressional Staffer Houle’s atrocious behaviour. Armando in the cruelty of cruelties doesn’t even rate as a side show. I know. Someone emailed me about it.

No, don’t be embarrassed that Fox and BillO – who know alot about all things bogussuch things have just done a probative assault. You all should be ashamed of the Faux Liberality you represent A good guy like Colbert will look lame saying Markos isn’t responsible for what individuals say obviously not knowing he personally encouraged DD to reregister. Delaware Dems comments at the time proclaiming “I support Barack Obama” were a disgrace, should have been called out as such, and rejected out of hand. Fuck off Frauds.

44. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

for instance you can have all kinds of fun

Look at emptywheel in camoflage made fro the very same wall paper in the background.

emptywheel

[ / Noogies]

45. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

Oooo…. Me thinks the Lady doth protest too much.

46. Miss Devore - 26 July 2007

43–call me shocked–for someone who has been portraying themselves as some sort of sex goddess–I honestly did not expect the resemblance to Mike Ditka. Very corn-fed.

47. marisacat - 26 July 2007

sorry to be rude. They all (I clicked back and forward a pic or two from the emptywheel “I match the wall” pic) look like aging mall rats.

I guess it is a species.

48. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

Hey, I’ve been told I looked “hot” just recently, and
I would argue that being treated for heat stroke had no influence on the paramedic crew’s assessment. “Nah he’s just a jerk” one standbyer said after I was holding forth in my unsolicited pedantic simpletonia…

Seriously the personal give and take a sense of alliance or community is a good thing.Something to be expected. The problem is that what might have been an organic thing with old timers clearly reeks of favoritism snobbery and exclusivity now… good luck with that people powered movement.

As for marcy, I read a lot of her stuff re libby , admired her diligence felt sympaty for Jane’s battle with cancer and couldn’t stomach Jerralyn. I found it all to be academic without impeachment then, as I do now. I found Jerry to be another dime a dozen lawyer like markos almost oozing- wondering aloud “And why did I go to Law School? Shouldn’t life be easier?”

49. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

Sorry, back to the Mavis Beacon

50. Miss Devore - 26 July 2007

catnip-the dope on LaMagna (“rhymes with lasagna”) is that he headed a socially responsible tweezer company.

and until there are revelations that he had a $400 nose-hair clipping, his integrity seems intact.

BHHM-with respect to Mavis–I loved the penguin exercise.

51. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

LaMagna – A man who’ll Tweez no toe cheese before it’s time

52. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

Campaign cheer:

LaMagna! LaMagna! THINK!
Toe Cheese and Lasagna!

53. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

its called TWEEZERMAN. for real. he is also involved in Cantwells campaign according to the wiki.

54. lucid - 26 July 2007

Well, her sister is hot. ;)

55. lucid - 26 July 2007

… not that I would objectify or anything….

56. liberalcatnip - 26 July 2007

There are socially responsible tweezers? Who knew?? I’d better google my nail clippers to make sure they’re not killing any animals.

The shadows from the North have blocked all light.

lol BHHM…any shadows you see are emanating from the cat on my lap. (She enjoys lap dancing.)

57. liberalcatnip - 26 July 2007

Elise on the left , sister on right who was well adjusted IIRC

“no comment”…well, except for the fact that I pictured her with really tight pin curls practically glued to her head (the better to keep The Sacred Knowledge of Teh Rulez embedded in her grey matter – kind of like a little troll-repelling helmet of hair).

58. Sabrina Ballerina - 26 July 2007

Lol, Lucid … objectify away …

Not that I want to either, but where is the ‘maleisssmsss’ series on DK? Surely there are guys over there willing to talk about their body parts, how hot they are, dig deeply into such questions as, are boxers sexy, or would the more european bikini-style bathing suit be sexier? Are there sex gods on DK? Enquiring minds want to know! Em,, to foster a deeper understanding of issues facing men, of course …

59. Sabrina Ballerina - 26 July 2007

Re the O’Reilly controversary … I just read that some of the comments he is complaining about came from the Israeli/Palestinian diaries …. and that naturally, they came from pro-Israeli posters … in his interview with the Jetblue rep., he brought up this ‘anti-semitism’ charge …

I haven’t seen the comments – will look for them, but I wonder, did O’Reilly just go looking for ‘hateful’ comments all by himself, or could someone have emailed them to him?

60. liberalcatnip - 26 July 2007

So, Obama compared Hillary to Bush?

I guess that means he’s officially a dkos troll now, right?

Ahem – Hodes endorses Obama. Who’s DD officially supporting?

61. Sabrina Ballerina - 26 July 2007

Corection, they came from pro-Palestinian posters ….

62. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

Ha… isn’t it funny the way that Elise talks about her beauty is the same way that Luscious Vagina talks about his the girth of his nether regions… a match made in DK threads… Elise and Mr. Vagina really should hook up at YK… they can both talk about what boobs they are…

63. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

Breaking! (mcjoan at the seams psst–sgt. mccarter, yes you can be named as a co defendent.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/7/26/183529/674

Did these shitheads actually think there would be no blowback? They are going to have a very steep learning curve….Christ, given the schite on the site everyday, you’d have thought that they heard of “strange bedfellows” and all that. Of course it will work for Hill to have these orange strawmen to be lit on fire. Not so much for the orange entourage.

They are under seige mode now.
Another post motivated by an all- too- knowing fear….

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/26/15839/1837

They have pissed off and isolated seasoned activists that have been involved in boycotts and squeeze plays for thirty years and more…Their rallying cry today? Cut off your Premium Cable package if Fox is on it! LOL! What about the swing vote suburbanites who are going to be treated to a blog- from- work / young fathead lawyer’s pottymouth from Delaware? And Markos Boyz will be Boyz input. LMAO> Just HA HA. FUCKIN HA.

They have no idea how to motivate others (however obvious the alliance) via mutual interest…. now, (however improbable the temporary benefactor) a deep pocketed RW noise machine will deliver an overdue shellacking progress.

“Someone emailed me” that a few weak knees in the Top Democratic Campaigns have been notified of the habitual disgusting RE- gressive nature of discourse on dailykos by Front Pagers, Administrators and Higher profile contributors and have been urged to dissasociate with the website and disavow such elements within the DP. If they sit on it it will come out later. If they can move on it down goes the orange candy money. This small group of DP activists felt “obliged” to give the campaigns an opportunity “to do the right thing” before taking it to the next level. Of kourse DK should have nothing to worry about with their record juxtaposed against their “impeccable” progressive credentials.

64. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

#58 — Drudge has a very easy to TIPs box on his page. Just saying…..

65. lucid - 26 July 2007

SB – well on that ridiculous Ghost of Frank Zappa thread yesterday, there was an extensive conversation about Clonecone’s penis. Perhaps he should start a series. I’m sure we’d all love to know the ins and outs of his body, sex life, & pubescent insecurities.

And while I’m objectifying, I’ll moderate my last statement – her sister is cute, in a Lisa Loeb sort of way. When I think “hot”, I think Kate Winslet or Jennifer Connelly [and I think it has more to do with the fact that they're both smart and talented...]

66. lucid - 26 July 2007

D. Throat – well Elise is an ‘energetic woman’, just what Jason’s looking for apparently.

67. outofwater - 26 July 2007

BHHM-Re. Elise photo. Oh, my. Oh, my. Kind words escape me.

68. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

Here is another great kitty story…. kinda fitting for this blog

69. liberalcatnip - 26 July 2007

Ahem – Hodes endorses Obama. Who’s DD officially supporting?

Ooops. That should have read DHinMI.

70. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

SB – where are the “hate” comments posted. i would love to see what Billo dug up.

71. liberalcatnip - 26 July 2007

Ha… isn’t it funny the way that Elise talks about her beauty is the same way that Luscious Vagina talks about his the girth of his nether regions… a match made in DK threads

That should have come with a projectile vomit warning.

72. lucid - 26 July 2007

That should have come with a projectile vomit warning.

Only if they procreate.

73. liberalcatnip - 26 July 2007

Only if they procreate.

Imagine the hoards of rabid troll-hunting munchkins. I can just imagine them in daycare: “READ THE FAQS!”

74. Miss Devore - 26 July 2007

65–is that lalouche outing DD?

75. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

Breaking! (mcjoan at the seams psst–sgt. mccarter, yes you can be named as a co defendent.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/7/26/183529/674

Did these shitheads actually think there would be no blowback? Now they wannabe activists. They’re going to have a very steep learning curve….Christ, given the schite on the site everyday, you’d have thought that they heard of “strange bedfellows” and all that. They mislabel themselves, attempt to hijack the progressive movement, character assassinate the globally recognized Cindy Sheehan,the most visible U.S. anti-war activist, all that – and they never calculated blowback??? Of course it will work short term for for Hill to have these orange strawmen to be lit on fire. Not so much for the orange entourage though.

They are in seige mode now.
Another post motivated by an all- too- knowing fear of what’s coming….

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/26/15839/1837

They pissed off and attempted to isolate seasoned activists that have been involved in boycotts and squeeze plays for thirty years or more…Their rallying cry today? Cut off your Premium Cable package if Fox is on it! LOL!

What about when the converted’s converter box is gone. Oh, forgive me -most of the kossacks are hi def cable already.. Anyways, what happens when the rest of the viewing public–the swing voting suburbanites are treated to a blog- from- work / young-fathead- lawyer’s pottymouth from Delaware? And the association of Markos’ “Boyz will be Boyz” duplicity with the Democratic Party. Perhaps the best part is the erstwhile outreach to the “Faith” community where the Man of the Cloth on Kos Media participates in a disgusting slander of a woman online….The reputation of Orange and its thugs hangs in the balance between the resolve of principled activists authentically to their left and nutball zealots to their right … Any ideas which way this thing is gonna go??? LMAO> Just HA HA. FUCKIN HA.

They have no idea how to motivate others (however obvious the alliance) via mutual interest…. now, (however improbable the temporary benefactor) a deep pocketed RW noise machine will deliver an overdue shellacking progress.

“Someone emailed me” that a few weak knees in the Top Democratic Campaigns have been notified of the habitual disgusting RE- gressive nature of discourse on dailykos by Front Pagers, Administrators and Higher profile contributors and have been urged to dissasociate with the website and disavow such elements within the DP. If they sit on it it will come out later. If they move on it, down goes the orange candy money. This small group of DP activists felt “obliged” to give the campaigns an opportunity “to do the right thing” before taking it to the next level.

Of kourse DK should have nothing to worry about with their record juxtaposed against their “impeccable” progressive credentials.Fellahs and felletes: Prepare to be Hit Back.Hard. At a time and a place in reality and your cash flow when it is most inconvenient and where troll ratings have no relevance. Good Luck.

76. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

Gee … I wonder where Jerome “Conman” Armstrong is getting his money from:

Clinton reacting to react to Barack Obama referring to her as “Bush-Cheney Lite”

by Jerome Armstrong, Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 04:50:49 PM EST

My guess is that people within the Clinton camp are pulling out the dagger right now after Obama escalated this by referring to Clinton as a “Bush-Cheney lite”. We, alot of times, use the “Republican lite” term, but “Bush Cheney lite” is quite an escalation. And coming from Obama, whose only serious distinction from Clinton comes from 5 years ago, it seems another slip. Does Obama have anything else to back up the differentiating claim since he’s been a Senator? Since he doesn’t, what does that say about him as a Senator?

The ‘name-calling’ incident being played out comes after a minor goof by Obama in the debate to give an unqualified ‘yes’ answer to meeting with any international leader; compounded slightly by Axelrod saying afterwards that Obama didn’t really mean just yes, but a qualified yes (basically what Clinton and Edwards said in the debate); but the twists and turns are now upping the ante quite a bit. Is referring to a Democrat like Clinton as “Bush-Cheney lite” going to work in his favor?

It reminds me a bit of McCain making the mistake of associating Bush with Clinton while in SC during the 2000 Republican primary. I think you’d be hard pressed to find even double-digit support among Democrats for calling Clinton “Bush-Cheney lite.” I expect we’ll quickly see backtracking by Obama’s campaign, that it’s not what he meant.

77. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

Keith O is saying there is breaking news on Tillman. “worse than we could imagine”

78. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

#75 —

That thread is funny all the fake outrage. Armando even drops in to to pimp the Clinton.. No one has any interest mind you. But the same peeps all rushed over to DK to make the same points.

79. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

What could be worse than Bill O calling Kos a poopy head…. I mean that has taken at least 20 front pages on DK!!!!

80. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

Keith reporting hilman was fragged. it was not “friendly fire”. someone put 2 bullets in his head from 10 yard s away. Murder!!

81. Miss Devore - 26 July 2007

70–from the clips I’ve seen shown:

-they called the Pope a Primate (obviously oreilly is unaware that is the term used by the Catholic church to designate bishops with a lot of authority)

–when there was a bomb that when off close to where cheney was visiting in Afghanistan, some commenter said something to the effect of “too bad it missed” or “maybe next time”

I forgot the third thing–but somehow oreilly contented that it advocated violent overthrow of the government (probably one of those pony diaries that show actual pics of Cossacks)

82. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

Among other information contained in the documents:

• In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop “sniveling.”

• Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

• The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman’s death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn’t recall details of his actions.

• No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene — no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.

The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman’s death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.

83. lucid - 26 July 2007

Rev – was he fragged for his political views?

84. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

Obama Lost My Vote.
by Delaware Dem

Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 05:23:58 PM PDT

One day, the name “George W. Bush” and “Dick Cheney” will be as reviled as the name “Adolf Hitler.” For some, that day is already here. For others, while the formers are horribly evil, they do not rise to the outright satanic nature of the latter. In either case, all three are bad.

Therefore, a Democrat comparing a fellow Democrat to any of the three is preemptive partisan warfare at the nuclear level.

Obama is now just days before Hilliary makes her appearance at YK… a “Concerned Troll”.

If they were so ludicrous and transparent it would be sad…. do they really believe and anyone actually believes them??’

85. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

#82 – KO talked about an autopsy as well. a doctor testified to something

86. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

By comparing her to Bush (0 / 0)

whom I equate with Hitler, he did.

A=B, B=C, A=C

In order to find his equal an Irishman is forced to talk to God.

by Delaware Dem on Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 05:24:00 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

87. Miss Devore - 26 July 2007

82-holy shit. where did they get these documents? wasn’t the white house also pulling executive privelege on releasing info on this investigtion just last week?

83-he was reading chomsky!

88. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman’s body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army’s Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.

89. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

“He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no,” the doctor testified.

90. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

The doctors — whose names were blacked out — said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

91. Miss Devore - 26 July 2007

86–what a pathetic diary. he probably got a text message from Hillary.

92. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

Again, apologies for the typos and thinking about boob-al eclipses and Canadian Pasties when I was doin the old cut and Pastey. I’m not even mentioning names, catnip

* a long overdue shallacking of faux progressives.
———————————————–
SB, re What “they got” on kos… In short, EVERYTHING – courtesy of his own goofy boob flashing posters and all the other self absorbed, indiscrete and uncivil people of the type who would offend Hannibal Lecter. This is going to be rollled out over time in a drip drip drip Probably good for Markos site stats short term till the majors distance themselves. Olberman Benefits for now, but his producers too will use DK as canon fodder then back away saying its the same old same old on the nets everywere. The Dems are fools if they don’t explicitly drop Markos. Wait till the Goopers start talking about DK as the site you should protect “the chidren” from. Yearlykos will come back to haunt them.

It’s funny that kos operation was sold under the assumed identity of “cutting edge'” “progressive” and “liberal”. He’s goin down for it because some hardhitting folks know he’s not, while other’s (the wingers) don’t give a shit if he is or not. The limb is going to be sawn off. Slowly. Afterwards, I don’t see him ever getting a job that requires confirmation, given his record.

93. Sabrina Ballerina - 26 July 2007

Revisionist, here is one diary posted by jhritz, who seems to be a real trouble-maker, determind to get pro-Palestinian commenters banned …. I never followed those diaries after checking them in the beginning because they are nasty. But I had no idea how nasty they had become until this whole O’Reilly thing came up.

Why does Bill O’Reilly hate me?

Very clever way to blame Palestinian supporter without actually calling them out …. you have to read through the thread to get a sense of the controversy …. imo, that diarist is a phony …. just my opinion, but I remember her/him and thought right away it was someone I did not want to be around …. just an instinct.

The reason I am wondering now whether someone sent O’Reilly the comments is because in this diary, there is a definite inplication that DK is under attack because of the pro-Palestinian posters. Posters this diarist has been at war with for months, it seems. Looks like things got really nasty a few months ago. Probably accounts for Hunters melt-down re the I/P situation and DK’s cave-in to the Israeli supporters …

I could imagine operators seeing this a way to scare dk into stopping any defense of Palestinians …. and it seems to be working

Still looking for the actual comments, but in the above thread the commenter is identified …. heathlander, I think …

94. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 July 2007

well, “Third Way” and “Progressive” should NOT be placed together in the same sentence, unless the word “fake” is inserted between them.

95. Miss Devore - 26 July 2007

mcjoan bullhorn moment:

“by mcjoan
Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 03:37:25 PM PDT

We are all under attack. Daily Kos might be the biggest target, but we’re certainly not the only one. But we can fight back.”

they hate you for all your freedoms at dk!

96. marisacat - 26 July 2007

ugh i can tell I have to go check out the FP at Dkos.

Nothing anyone is posting is making any sense (or much sense).

97. D. Throat - 26 July 2007

BHHM:

He’s goin down for it because some hardhitting folks know he’s not, while other’s (the wingers) don’t give a shit if he is or not.

Yup… the keep trying to stir the pot… but there is not much in the way of reinforcements…. I mean none of the “Bill O has done me wrong” diaries have even touch to 1000+ meta pootie diaries… you gotta wonder…. now they have even made a video… just in case you didn’t get the message.

I am amazed that they are asking their audience … yunno the very same ones that they harass and bully day in and day out … to come out and save their asses… beside Elise and Luscious Vagina and that motely crew of political staff and operatives… there is not there …there.

98. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 July 2007

of course he was fragged … he was an outspoken atheist who was starting to question Dear Leader’s war policies … in a fucking spec ops unit. those units are FULL of winger troglodytes.

99. Miss Devore - 26 July 2007

I wonder if pastordamning is still praying for oreilly like he was yesterday?

100. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

#84 There it is, with this Delaware Dem cretin. I doubt he’s been vetted yet by any campaign. Hillary’s people better hope he is pegged as a lone nutballer playin at politics since he’s now a little too old for video games. His quote:

But Mariscat is a bitch, a whore, and a cunt. Whatever derogatory term you want to use, use. by Delaware Dem on Thu Feb 01, 2007 at 01:31:58 PM PST …

In any event, This Hillary Supporter posted that doozy all under the sig of
“I support Barack Obama”

Shockingly, this ingnorant pig was encouraged to reregister on the QT By Markos. All screen-shot and documented.
Drip Drip Drip.

Maybe BillO will lead off with “someone emailed me” while the Orange Amateurs will be screaming like stuck pigs.Maybe it’s poetic justice that O”Reilly will display their non progressive neanderthal asses for what they are. Poor Olberman and Colbert, sandbagged on this one.

101. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 July 2007
102. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

that post upset me. had to try really hard not to lay into pastor dan.

he had his little pray* which was all new agey and non denominatial to appeal to every one. Just send him postive vibes man. just join in the love circle. But the actual prayer was all about the one true glory of jesus. That wasnt something i cared to “meditate” on. As an athiest it pissed me off. But then I thought hey, if I were a buddist i would still be pissed off. this is how he ended his love-in

*

And now, may the God of peace make you complete in everything good so that you may do his will, working among us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever.

103. Paul - 26 July 2007

“The purpose of feminism was/is to enable women to GET PAST being viewed as bodies and sex objects.”

That sounds futile to me.

It reminds me of how Democrats are always trying to “GET PAST being viewed as” this, that and the other by Republicans.

As a feminist, I favor more pragmatic goals. Men should not dominate obstetrics and gynecology.

Men should not dominate business or government either.

The imbalance is so bad, we need affirmative action quotas, yes, quotas. The goal should be equality in numbers, for a start.

If I were asked to choose who should get the greater gift or honor, my father or my mother, I could not choose.

104. VAGreen - 26 July 2007

‘Obama Lost My Vote.
by Delaware Dem
Thu Jul 26, 2007 at 05:23:58 PM PDT

One day, the name “George W. Bush” and “Dick Cheney” will be as reviled as the name “Adolf Hitler.”’

Good God. What we’ve done in Iraq is criminal, but the USSR alone lost the equivalent of the entire population of Iraq in the Second World War. There’s a much bigger difference between Bush and Hitler than between Bush and Clinton, given her initial and continuing support for the war. If Bush starts rounding up our Muslim population for orderly extermination, then we can start talking.

If Delaware Dem doesn’t believe me, then the next time he comes to the DC area, I’ll gladly pay for his ticket to the Holocaust Memorial.

105. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 July 2007

I don’t know if one of you guys already linked this, but these people are fucking nuts:

Rapture Ready: The Unauthorized Christians United for Israel Tour. I can’t believe that these people are running a major political party now. I remember when they were laughed at, and it wasn’t that long ago.

Hard to catch up on these threads after work.

106. Miss Devore - 26 July 2007

105–it was up earlier in the day but it shouldn’t be missed.

107. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

#105 –

Its la petty large movement. There was a story last week about an Isreali flag being burned in front of a Babptist church in Ft Worth. ANTI SEMITISM was cried. But no one questioned why a church was flying the Israeli flag

108. marisacat - 26 July 2007

#100 BHHM

LOL Not sure Del Dem can hide or be written off as a lone tank gunner, riding the battlespace alone.

IIRC they proudly stated he handled the LLC work for Dkos.

Couple law firms back… but hey… consigliere is consigliere … no matter what.

109. Intermittent Bystander - 26 July 2007

Revisionist – thanks for the head’s up on Tillman. AP now has this on Tillman’s last words:

But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.

The chaplain said that O’Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman’s side, “crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God’s not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling …”

You just know where the fundies will be going with all that.

BooHooHooMan at #43 – Quite the little search engine they’ve got over at flickr. Here’s the other Officer in Charge of Boob Blogging and Crowd Control (though this is not the greeter-table “Meet the Twins” shot I described the other day).

110. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 July 2007

in honor of today’s round of panic on Wall St:

The Crash of 1929: Are We on the Verge of a Repeat?

The Hypermarket Beckons

News flash: The American economy is a hyperreality engineered by Ph.D.s working hand-in-hand with colluding media multinationals, political officials and some of the biggest names in business – and the banks that invest in them. In other news, greed is still good.

Of course, the idea that Wall Street is corrupt is as old as Wall Street itself. After all, the immortal “Greed is good” aphorism was muttered by a white-collar criminal in the 1987 movie named after Wall Street, which was directed by a guy, Oliver Stone, who made his name in postmodern cinema and political agitation. In fact, a film of the same name came out in 1929, the year of the stock market crash. And so the narrative replicates.

Speaking of replicants, Oliver Stone is a man who tackled not only labyrinthine presidential conspiracies in the 1991 film JFK but also the numb pathos of 9/11 in last year’s World Trade Center. Indeed, Wall Street indirectly tackled the junk bond and insider trading economic screw-jobs that riddled the ’80s like so many overpriced, overly puffy hairdos. Stone envisioned the film as Crime and Punishment on Wall Street, which was only partially fitting for the time because there was a ton of crime and very little punishment.

And the more things have changed, the more they have stayed the same. Indeed, only the nomenclature has been altered. Instead of junk bonds and insider trading, we have hedge funds and private equity takeovers. And instead of Gordon Gekko and Wall Street, we have Fox News mogul Rupert Murdoch and, soon, the Wall Street Journal.

In the 1980s, guys like Michael Milken and Ivan Boesky – who anticipated the “Greed is good” phrase with a 1986 commencement speech at Berkeley in which he stated, “Greed is all right. … I think greed is healthy” – were riding high on schemes that failed. Both served as inspirations for Stone’s Wall Street scumbag Gordon Gekko, but both got off with a few years in prison and a few hundred million dollars lost. Milken shaved a 10-year sentence down to two, and in 2007, still had a net worth of about $2 billion. Roll the happy ending.

But the hyperreality does not end there, and by hyperreality I mean simply a reality that exists outside the one you live in, whoever you are. It can come in many forms. Film is one such simulation, network and cable news is another, and our two-party political machine, as Ron Suskind explains in the quote at the top of this article, is a finer-tuned one still. But they all collide and collude in the social space of Wall Street and its various markets, on the internet and on the trading floors of the New York Stock Exchange and onward.

Take Milken’s favored high-yield junk bonds, for example, which are basically bonds that are rated below investment grade by ratings organizations like Standard and Poor’s or Moody’s and therefore subject to not only a much higher risk of default or other cash-sucking crashes but also higher paydays if you can make them work. To do that, you need a little help from your friends and unsuspecting investors, which is why Boesky and Milken went to jail for suckering friends and strangers into dense schemes that went nowhere.

And if that whole scam sounds familiar, that is because, as is always the case with hyperreality, it is happening again. Yet this time, it is happening in an information age in which 97 percent of stock transactions are conducted electronically. And this time it is not because of junk bonds, but because of hedge funds, mortgage-backed securities, subprime loans and a bizarro virtual scheme known as naked shorting, which has been around as long as – and played a role in – the 1929 crash, and according to some, could trigger the next one any day now.

“We’ve divorced the system from paper,” explained Overstock.com CEO and hedge fund activist Patrick Byrne to me by phone, “and since then it’s become easier to divorce it from reality. But the problem is that so much has been drained out of the system using these tools that the money is not there. If this gets exposed, the money is not there. It’s been turned into Ferraris and mansions in the Hamptons. It can’t be paid back. The system is going to vapor lock.”

111. Sabrina Ballerina - 26 July 2007

On Tillman, Miss D, the documents were released a few days ago. I imagine his family had something to do with that, because his mother more or less said she did not believe the reasons given for his death. She especially mentioned Rumsfeld as knowing more than he would reveal …. she refused also to accept the results, (cover-ups) of the various investigations which they, administration, had hoped would end the questions. His family disagreed and insisted on further investigations. I think she always believed he was murdered.

Monsters is what they are … thankfully there do seem to be good people still left who do try to get the truth out … I bet Rumsfeld and Bush knew about this ….. Tillman would have been home before the election and had let it be known he no longer supported the war. Bush had hoped to use him as PR, hero football player, patriot etc. to appeal to the wingnuts. So sad …. another wasted life ..

112. marisacat - 26 July 2007

Seems to me there was stuff coming out a few months ago about Tillman, around the time his mother testified before congress. It seemed lcear then he was killed, murdered by fellow Rangers. Aside from all the cover up that followed. Heinous, all of it.

But hey ‘support the troops’.

What a minefield that has been. Citizens exhorted to support non proportional response and illegal invasion and occupation..

113. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 July 2007

more tidbits from the piece I just linked to:

What brings Shapiro, Byrne, Patch and a growing legion of investors, scholars and politicians together is the hyperreal practice known as naked shorting. Recall craps and the Don’t Pass Line: In it, you are betting on failure, or as the stock market would term it, devaluation. Well, Wall Street has a Don’t Pass Line of its own, and it’s called shorting. Just as the Don’t Pass player is waiting for a 7 roll and the house to clean you out, short investors are literally banking on the collapse of some stocks. As Shapiro explained it, it’s a perfectly legal – if not, as in craps, uncool – way of preying on those companies living on borrowed time.

“Short sells are fine because just as you buy a share on the belief that the stock is going up, you short a company on the belief that the price is going down,” Shapiro said. “In both cases, you inject information into the market. Short sales are a way of injecting negative information into the market. There’s nothing wrong with them; they’ve been around for a long, long time.”

Forget for a moment that we are talking about injecting information, rather than actual money, into the market. Information, as anyone born in the era of the personal computer or Internet understands all too well, is easily manipulated. But if Shapiro’s first proposition rings a bit hollow, at least the second one is true. In fact, as Shapiro clarified, it was massive if unregulated short sales, known as naked shorts, that gave the infamous 1929 crash (which in turn spawned the Great Depression, its long, long legs).

“There were a lot of unregulated short sales in the stock market crash; that’s true,” Shapiro confirmed. “And regulating short sales were part of the initial regulation from the SEC in 1936.”

Byrne is a bit more colorful on the subject. “I do think it played a role. Hedge funds were called pools back then. Rich guys got together, pooled their capital and manipulated the stock market. And, in fact, newspapers covered the pools like they would cover sports teams; it was public entertainment. It wasn’t too dissimilar from the way the New York Times is trying to make rock stars out of hedge funders today.”

In other words, naked shorts are a final confirmation that hyperreality has been with us as long as the Bible. They are virtual transactions, ones that never actually occur.

“In short sales,” Shapiro explained, “you don’t own the share you sell; instead you borrow it. Then you replace it when you cover the short. If you’re right and the price has gone down, you replace it at a lower price, and the difference between what you sold it for and what price you replaced it at is your profit. The problem with a naked short is that you don’t borrow the share you sell. You sell it without ever borrowing it. In effect, you invent a share.”

If this is beginning to sound like a game of Monopoly built on fake money, that’s because it is. By injecting so many invented shares into the market using naked shorting, hedge funds have not only created an economy in which they can manipulate the stocks of companies smaller than Microsoft and Wal-Mart, but they have also created a market in which there are more shares than actual stocks. And that’s about as hyperreal as an economy can get.

“It’s essentially counterfeiting,” Byrne added. “You’re creating counterfeit shares in the system. It works like this. In a normal stock transaction, you give me money and I give you stock. And not paper stock anymore. It turns out that there is a loophole in the system: When I come to give you the stock that you bought, if I don’t actually have any stock, I can give what is effectively an IOU. Now you never know about this unless you know the right question to ask your broker, but it’s possible that all you really have in your account is an IOU from your brokerage account from a different broker working with a hedge fund.”

It is precisely this imbalance between real and invented shares that Byrne and others argue is primed to explode the subprime collapse into a full-blown economic depression.

“There are a lot of us who think we are living on the edge of 1929,” Byrne continued. “When you consider what’s happened with mortgage-backed securities, you get the feeling these might be the first rumblings. There may be more IOUs in the system than there is liquidity, in which case the entire thing is going to vapor lock as soon as it is exposed. One of the healthiest indications of the vibrancy of an economy is capital formation. Seven years ago, America was responsible for 57 percent of IPO capital raised around the world. Now it’s down to 16 percent. A national disaster.”

And don’t expect the Great Black Hope to do anything about it if he gets elected, or Clinton:

But history, as always, likely will teach a different lesson. Consider two events in that regard. The first happened after – and because of – the 1929 Crash: The Glass Steagall Act of 1933 mandated the separation of bank types according to their business, after the Senate-led Pecora Commission investigation of the crash found that collusion between commercial and investment banks played a major role in it. That act stood for 66 years, until none other than Bill Clinton repealed it in 1999, and here we are again.

Here’s the other lesson: According to a recent Financial Times story, “Barack Obama received more donations from employees of investment banks and hedge funds than from any other sector, with Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase among his biggest sources of support.” While Obama has already promised to increase regulation on hedge funds and the tax burden on private equity groups (or today’s “pools,” as Byrne explained them), if he becomes president, one can imagine he’ll be singing quite a different tune if he becomes the first black man in history to run the White House.

Throw in the fact that Rupert Murdoch is set to take over the Wall Street Journal, the paper of record for these subjects and scams, and you have more of the same reality programming.

Murdoch’s holdings would probably give the Pecora Commission fits: Not only does he own Fox News and now the Wall Street Journal, to go along with the New York Post, MySpace, DirecTV, HarperCollins, the Sunday Times, TV Guide, the Weekly Standard, 20th Century Fox … Stop me if you’ve had enough, but he’s also slated to unveil Fox Business Network on Oct. 15, which no doubt will team up with all of his other assets to turn Murdoch into something else besides a propaganda arm of the Bush administration or, in fact, the puppeteer who pulls its strings.

And for those of you who think that may be too broad a generalization, consider this: As the Huffington Post explained, “By taking advantage of a provision in the law that allows expanding companies like Mr. Murdoch’s to defer taxes to future years, the News Corp. paid no federal taxes in two of the last four years, and in the other two, it paid only a fraction of what it otherwise would have owed. During that time, Securities and Exchange Commission records show that the News Corp.’s domestic pretax profits topped $9.4 billion.”

Now don’t forget who Rupert’s favorite Donklephant is …

114. Intermittent Bystander - 26 July 2007
115. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 July 2007

Harry Potter and the Last Crusade

Dave’s Harry Potter piece below led to a lively comments discussion on why fundamentalists are so bothered by myth-and-magic stories. There are several things going on all at once here — but all of them, in the end, touch back to one thread at the deepest core of their theology.

The first thing to bear in mind about fundamentalists is that, in the darkest depths of their minds, almost all of them harbor deep, unspoken doubts about their belief system. In fact, for all their protestations about truth and certainty, doubt is perhaps the main wellspring of their zeal: only people who live in a perpetual state of guilty unbelief can be strung along for a lifetime in such a desperate, grasping quest for assurance that their faith is sufficient for a God who offers grace, but demands constant efforts at perfection in return.

My ex-fundie friends all acknowledge that they never felt good enough, pure enough, “saved” enough to be true Christians. Always, deep down, there was the feeling that if everybody really knew who they were, they’d be shunned by God and the church. Much of their passionate prayer and seeking was driven by this secret dread. Manipulative pastors foster these doubts deliberately, precisely to ignite that passion and keep their flock insecure, ever dependent on them for guidance and that elusive assurance of salvation.

So doubt is a standard feature of the fundamentalist package. And it’s also why they’re so defensive about their own mythos. We reality-based folk don’t need to feel terribly defensive about our worldview. We can verify truth with our own eyes. If our beliefs are questioned, we’ll debate the observable facts, and perhaps either change the other person’s mind or our own accordingly (and, either way, feel richer for the exchange). Acknowledging reality can’t shake our mythos, since we don’t have a mythos to shake.

But once you’ve rejected the reality-based world in favor of a mythic worldview, you are — by definition — building your life on an epistemology that has no verifiable support structure. Which means there are always going to be moments when faith dissipates just long enough to admit a quiet, nagging doubt about the foundations of your reality. It also means that you’re going to regard any and all competing myth systems — no matter how fantastic — as a serious existential threat that stands in direct competition to your own (equally fantastic) myth system. They have to be treated as equivalent, because they’re all made of the same flimsy stuff.

116. Sabrina Ballerina - 26 July 2007

So now they say ‘we are all in this together’ –

I am amazed that they are asking their audience … yunno the very same ones that they harass and bully day in and day out … to come out and save their asses… beside Elise and Luscious Vagina and that motely crew of political staff and operatives… there is not there …there.

Exactly, and why would real Progressives and Liberals have any interest in supporting a site that has silenced every progressive voice on that site? Let them turn to the righwingers who they welcome there and who seem to be the only supporting them now …

They NEVER link to sites like Alternet, DU, TO (who they tried to shut down and who were there from the beginning with actual real writers and journalists) The Liberal blogosphere would be far better off without dk and their little circle of affiliates.

How many activists have they banned? Thousands of progressives, and each time one is banned, who knows how many others are learning that dk is NOT a progressive site …. I laughed when I saw the word ‘Gatekeepers’ in one of those diaries. That is what DK is.

They have few friends in the real progressive movement …. no one is out to crush Alternet, eg. So it’s not ‘all of us in the progressive movement’.

They wanted to take over the ‘new media’ and exclude liberal voices from that media. No different from what we already have.

I would much rather a thousand smaller blogs with good writers and journalists like Dahr Jamail eg, than what DK became ….

There are no liberal voices on the FP of that blog. Armandos little dispute with MB revealed that they do ‘talk about’ what is appropriate for the FP. And it is NOT issues important to progressives.

They just Cindy Sheehan off their site, banned David Swanson, they make fun of Kucinich and the list is long …. I don’t see what a loss they would be at all …

117. Intermittent Bystander - 26 July 2007

Madman – Yeah, no competing fantasies allowed.

Best to squelch the imagination entirely.

118. supervixen - 26 July 2007

103. Paul – 26 July 2007
“The purpose of feminism was/is to enable women to GET PAST being viewed as bodies and sex objects.”

That sounds futile to me.

It’s not. Well, no moreso than getting past seeing black people as less-than-human slaves with good rhythm.

119. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 July 2007

I have fundie relatives. When I was a young little existentialist, all full of my latest classes at school, I used to ask a lot why their faith was so weak it couldn’t handle a challenge or two, wasn’t Southern Baptism a pale insult to the kind of faith that used to go willingly into the mouths of the lions in the colleseum? It wasn’t appreciated. “Can’t forge a sword without fire and good hard hammering, can you?” I’d ask.

Apparently not.

120. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 July 2007

well, I’d put it like this:

The purpose of Feminism (I prefer the term HUMANISM, since to separate from the species as a whole is to diminish right at the outset) is to enable women to get past being viewed JUST as bodies and sex objects.

A body and (if we’re lucky) a sex object is PART of who and what any human being is. The question is whether that is only one aspect of how one is viewed or treated, or if it is the ONLY aspect. I know I’ve been thrilled when I’ve been reduced to a sex object, on those rare and happy occasions.

121. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

Mcat, lol #108 that’s friggin awesome. If Del Dem did the LLC then kos most asssuredly is personally liable for the woes of mankind. The jackass probably downloaded a Confession of Judgement instead of a Limited Liability Company.
———————————–
From SB, #93
The reason I am wondering now whether someone sent O’Reilly the comments is because in this diary, there is a definite inplication that DK is under attack because of the pro-Palestinian posters.

SB –
1..the Pro Palestinean Angle is the lead off. Lanny Davis and Co have some long memories.But kos will wish that was the extent of their grief.

2. The “happy to keep women as Burqa wearin’ boob flashing femi-ninny-ists” angle is another. The truth is their activism is not much more than MB or mcjoan cutting and pasting a phone list for a call- em- quick and bitch action or the predictable begging sessions with a $$$ link.
As far as strategy and tactics, they blow. The are Democratic “Know Nothings”, too foolish to accomadate or embrace resourceful “outsiders”. In a very real sense it is THEY who are the purists running from activist liberals and Greens alike. They’re nothing but text messagers for impromptu flash mobs, much like their flash in the pan influence.

3.The real kicker, though, that O’Rielly and the nutballers are going to bring out is the “hand in the cookie jar” charges. Of course the nutters have no shame but Markos and his DP patrons have neither balls orbrains. If they had spent half of this online activity in RL organizing or been discreet online it would be one thing. But te way the flabby and blabby have exposed themselves while crashing the gates tey are about to be run over by an armored car.Not that many of them have seen one up close for crowd control.Every little interwoven LLC is going to be leaked. And the circular flow of money or in kind contributions that would put Enron to shame along with it. [No matter how small potatoes in the scheme of things it is] Just like they have box car blogs, [every one an entity to pass money through and to each other] every one of their consulting gigs are going to be checked out, linkages established and publicized. Ah the price of fame and ambition: issues and lives at stake but hey- they got to go to some really “kewl” parties with some “really important” (weak) people.

122. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

I’m out.

123. Paul - 26 July 2007

SuperVixen: “It’s not. Well, no moreso than getting past seeing black people as less-than-human slaves with good rhythm.”

supervixen: What’s your opinion on pornography?

124. Hair Club for Men - 26 July 2007

Note. I am not Duncan Black.

Joe Trippi and Duncan Black

Bill O’Reilly chose his target well when he chose the Daily Kos.

1.) He speaks to a much older demographic, precisely the kind of people who have little or no experience with the internet, and precisely the kind of people who will take his word for it that the Daily Kos is a “hate site”.

2.) The Daily Kos is a high traffic site at its peak of traffic. An attack by Fox News isn’t going to add many readers to what it already has. There are much, much more radical sites than DK. But O’Reilly is not going to send people to Counterpunch or Antiwar.com because they really are outside of the mainstream. With Kos, he can attack a site with that most people label “leftist” but which, in reality, has the same views as anything you’d see on CNN or MSNBC. So he can attack “leftists” without exposing anybody to real leftists. Ever hear O’Reilly attack Noam Chomsky? Why not? Because if he does, people may read him.

3.) Part of the reason for the attack/gatekeeping about who’s “respectable” and who’s a “hate site” is that it will scare smaller blogges than Kos. DK is not going to be hurt by an O’Reilly attack. But some individual blogger pushing a Democratic Party agenda somewhere in buttfuck New Jersey or New Hampshire just might.

4.) Anybody who does find DK from O’Reilly is more likely than not just going to add to the conservative core that’s already starting to dominate the site. In other words, more little friends for “Keith Moon” and “Jay Elias” and “Jacinto”.

125. Revisionist - 26 July 2007

Speaking of FOX. There was controversy tonite on So you think you can dance . Not only did they do an antiwar dance but marines found a patch on one of the judges jackets offensive. She had to issue a apology. The the producer who is another judge apologized for a peace dance and assured the audince they love the troops

126. BooHooHooMan - 26 July 2007

Awesome post Madman in 110 and 113.
(on the surreal/hyperreal economy)
Maybe down the road, Markos can have some friends over for dinner and they can grill the Grand Piano, Use leftovers for fuel if it gets nippy in Oakland.

109 IB lol re pics

markos said something about JetBlue pissing off activists — he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Yet.
LOL —done in by activists on the left nutballers to the right then dropped by Vichy Dems like a prom suitor with a cold sore.
NOW i’m out.

127. Intermittent Bystander - 26 July 2007

I used to ask a lot why their faith was so weak it couldn’t handle a challenge or two, wasn’t Southern Baptism a pale insult to the kind of faith that used to go willingly into the mouths of the lions in the colleseum? It wasn’t appreciated. “Can’t forge a sword without fire and good hard hammering, can you?” I’d ask.

Great questions.

One candid answer, from some Southern affluents: Son, we wield them, not weld them. God’s been good to us. And (wink) bluff is half the game of poker. Show up on Sunday and you’ll be just fine.

From others: We just want to cross swords, not forge them. Preferably, hammered, and on other people’s heads. Good, clean, authority-sanctioned fun.

I know there are other answers, some from those sincerely committed to particular visions of righteousness and glory.

Just can’t help wondering if the chaplain’s quote is exactly the latest ruse to make this particular story shrink away.

128. marisacat - 26 July 2007

New Thread

LINK

129. liberalcatnip - 26 July 2007

Again, apologies for the typos and thinking about boob-al eclipses and Canadian Pasties when I was doin the old cut and Pastey. I’m not even mentioning names, catnip

Sure, blame it on the herb…. ;)

130. supervixen - 27 July 2007

Paul: supervixen: What’s your opinion on pornography?

That’s the exact same question that rightwing republicans ALWAYS ask me when they find out I’m a feminist.

My answer: in principle, it’s okay, but in practice, given the unequal status of women in this society, it’s often harmful.

A lot of men are more comfortable relating to women as porn objects than they are in relating to them as equal human beings with needs and interests that go beyond sex. And that’s a problem.

What do you think we need to do about this problem, Paul?

131. Paul - 27 July 2007

Supervixen: “A lot of men are more comfortable relating to women as porn objects than they are in relating to them as equal human beings with needs and interests that go beyond sex. And that’s a problem.

What do you think we need to do about this problem, Paul?”

Both modes of relation are part of the big picture.

I think people should contemplate what’s happened with Britney, Lindsay and Paris in recent months.

It seems like they were criticized from all sides for narcissism. I think people should become more comfortable handling their own narcissistic impulses and judge others less.

It would be a good start if everyone could mind their own business first and foremost, and respect each other’s boundaries.

132. Paul - 27 July 2007

This picture features an interesting message:

133. ms_xeno - 27 July 2007

supervixen:

…My answer: in principle, it’s okay, but in practice, given the unequal status of women in this society, it’s often harmful…

Bingo.

134. ms_xeno - 27 July 2007

Bright irritates me. Her relentlessly sunny hawking of sexual liberation– as she sees it– is barely more realistic than the vision of sexuality pushed by Right-wingers. And like most of her brethren, she glosses over the dangers of “sex work” and the regressive attitudes fostered in so much of the material we’re all supposed to be “liberated” by.

Ironically, both the Fundies with their Bibles and the Flynts with their racist and sexist caricatures of women concur that women are nothing without men. We are nothing but what men make of us and their judgment of who we are is more important than our own perceptions of who we are.

135. marisacat - 27 July 2007

It’s a good column at Susie’s, that goes iwth that picture. There was nothing even remotely like the sources on that page when I was a teenager…

The SFSI line (among other sources she lists) has done lots of innovative things lately. And SF Dept of Public Health offers help to as young as 12 y/o, set up text messaging as of last year. I did a post on it at the time..

136. Paul - 27 July 2007

133. ms_xeno – 27 July 2007

supervixen:

…My answer: in principle, it’s okay, but in practice, given the unequal status of women in this society, it’s often harmful…

Bingo.

I agree completely.

137. Paul - 27 July 2007

ms_xeno,

There are places where Fundies and some “Feminists” agree as well. There have been “morality crusades” launched by both Fundies and Feminists.

Jerry Falwell and Larry Flynt. What they have in common – they have both been disrespectful to women at times. Jerry Falwell is all the time.

The key distinction I see is this:

Jerry Falwell wants to cover women up in public and let them be controlled and exploited in private.

Larry Flynt wants to bring some of it out into the light and people can deal with it.

Larry Flynt has earned respect from many liberals for his aggressive challenges to the hypocrites, liars and bullies.

His $1M reward for leads on hypocritical politicians has gained 300 leads, 30 of which he says are solid leads.

His efforts are very helpful with the investigation of the DC Madame.

How about Senator Vitter and his diapers? How about Dick Cheney and his use of the DC Madame’s services?

Is the goal to shame promiscuous women into silence, or do we want to get the lying hypocrites off our backs?

138. ms_xeno - 27 July 2007

Paul, I feel the same way about Flynt vs. Vitter as I do about PETA flinging a pie at some Vogue bigwig, or the NFL threatening to sue Vegas casinos over misuse of the words “Super Bowl.”

They deserve each other.

Nikki Craft, amongst others, has documented in detail the ugliness promoted by Flynt. I believe he panders to anyone and everyone who he thinks will bring him money and keep him in the spotlight. Which is why racist caricatures can exist side by side with the promotion of Leftie voices in some of his publications.

I don’t think any of these clowns give a damn about the First Amendment, except to the degree that it makes them money. They are happy enough to use economic means to stifle the free speech of those who they fear would cut into their profits.

Is the goal to shame promiscuous women into silence, or do we want to get the lying hypocrites off our backs?

As our culture remains caught between capitalism and religion, my personal opinion is that these two issues are dependent upon one another. Flynt and Falwell’s successors need each other. What they fight over is women –for their own profit and their own egos, but it never occurs to either of them that they don’t know shit about us, and it’s not their right to determine who we are and what we do in the first place.

139. Paul - 27 July 2007

ms_xeno: Bright irritates me. Her relentlessly sunny hawking of sexual liberation– as she sees it– is barely more realistic than the vision of sexuality pushed by Right-wingers.

Will wars continue if there aren’t enough sexually-frustrated men to form an army?

There’s a connection between the break-down of civilizations and the level of sexual frustration.

Many of people of both genders have endorsed organized-violence throughout history.

I suspect their impulse for violence is so the repressed, subconscious desires of their reptile brains can be indulged indirectly.

Whether they will admit it or not, some men prefer a destabilized social environment in which to play out their sexual fantasies of forcibly violating other people.

Wilhelm Reich was onto something, though he definitely got a bit nutty on some of his theories.

140. Paul - 27 July 2007

“Flynt and Falwell’s successors need each other. What they fight over is women –for their own profit and their own egos, but it never occurs to either of them that they don’t know shit about us, and it’s not their right to determine who we are and what we do in the first place.”

I don’t see them as equivalent. Flynt has done some very impressive deeds in his life.

Ego is a part of everyone’s lives. Everyone has the capacity to be narcissistic at the wrong time and place, and to become delusional and harmful to those around them.

Balancing power between women and men will require a large transfer of wealth from men to women.

Men and women are mixed together pretty evenly by their mutual requirement of the other for procreation.

Maybe some changes regarding rights of sex-workers can facilitate the balancing of power.

141. ms_xeno - 27 July 2007

Paul:

blockquote>Will wars continue if there aren’t enough sexually-frustrated men to form an army?

I realize that *Lysistrata* was only fiction, and male-authored fiction in male-dominated society, at that. But I think you miss the point.

Regressive views of sexuality that invite men to indulge their appetites at women’s expense and perpetual war go hand in hand with one another. That was one thing Alan Moore got right in the original version of *V For Vendetta.*

Many of people of both genders have endorsed organized-violence throughout history.

Women have rarely, if ever, been able to harness the sort of power that leads movements for organized violence. Margaret Thatcher followed readily in the footsteps of the men before her, which is why she was able to hold power.

As for Flynt, I still think he’s scum, motivated by no ideology more than the almighty dollar. I believe he’d cozy up to a fascist dictator in ten seconds if he found one that agreed to leave his empire alone. In fact, much of his money is in “legit” publications these days. He is well-matched with those guardians of our supposed need for chastity who have interests in hotel chains and cable companies that make billions a year off porn. Much like the O’Reilly-Kos spat, it’s all for show. Under the table there is money applenty and mutual non-aggression pacts to help the strong unite against the weak at every turn– give or take the occasional high-profile sacrificial lamb used to rally the troops and pretend that justice means more than money.

142. supervixen - 27 July 2007

ms xeno speaks for me on this subject. Paul missed the point a while back, alas.

143. Paul - 27 July 2007

I’ll look more closely at Flynt’s history.

I know about his free-speech battle in the Supreme court.

I know I laughed out loud seeing the thing he did for Jerry Falwell.

Other than that, I don’t know much about him, really.

144. Paul - 27 July 2007

“Regressive views of sexuality that invite men to indulge their appetites at women’s expense and perpetual war go hand in hand with one another.”

All the more reason to decriminalize prostitution so that sex-workers have recourse against exploitation and violence.

It wasn’t long ago that some guy was murdering prostitutes. The media was quite callous, as if these prostitutes were not entitled to the full protection of the law, and the full respect of the most prominent voices in the media.

145. marisacat - 27 July 2007

decriminalize prostitution

I am all for it. WIth right to form unions and in a world with free medical care – mandating periodic certificates of health for the workers. Similar to say Germany, where some states have legal prostitution.

Anybody got a way to get the pols to see sanity? hmm?

I don’t think so. We have had a 4 into 5 week garbage strike in a heat wave in the East Bay (Berkeley, Oakland and inland, a mix of rural and urban areas). Ron Dellums (formerly in the House for decades), elected in Nov to follow Jerry Brown as mayor of Oakland was on local TV to get political hits off a prostitution arrest/sting (during a big sporting event here, Fan Fest) before he EVER bothered to try to settle the garbage strike.

And that seems classic. America is into prohibitions. A BIG PROBLEM.

146. Paul - 27 July 2007

Marisacat: “I am all for it. WIth right to form unions and in a world with free medical care”

That’s exactly the key. Sex-work cannot be ethical in a society with no worker’s rights.

If there are no rights for workers to form unions and no social safety-net, economic coercion makes prostitution into a negotiated rape.

Whether a worker is a MTA rail-worker breathing the foul air in the unventilated tunnels of NYC’s subway, or a sex-worker, the lack of workers rights traps both kinds of workers into involuntary servitude, especially if their survival depends on their income.

147. marisacat - 27 July 2007

HOWEVER

the point is politicians will never go for it. Ever. They like things the way they are. And so do vice depts in police depts.

Like Marijuana (not my drug of choice) which should never on this earth be classified iwth heroin. Won’t be changing.

148. supervixen - 27 July 2007

I’m all for the idea of sexual liberation, but to be frank, it hit the mainstream decades ago, yet today, women are still second-class citizens. What’s up with that?

149. Paul - 27 July 2007

marisacat: “the point is politicians will never go for it. Ever. They like things the way they are. And so do vice depts in police depts.”

Politicians have become a parasitic, even a predatory class.

I don’t care what the politicians think or do.

They can’t keep control of us with the pace of technological change these days.

Let the politicians and the media do their worst.

They’ll be humiliated in the end for thinking they were entitled to freedom, prosperity and health-care while the rest of us can kiss their fucking feet.

Their job is to represent us, not to step on our necks.

I see big social changes on the horizon.

150. Revisionist - 27 July 2007

I dont think Flynt is a good example for a modern sleeze. A couple of decades behind the times. Joe Francis of Girls Gone Wild is better example of contempory exploitive pornographers.

151. ms_xeno - 27 July 2007

I would favor decriminalization of the kind that’s being experimented with in Sweden. It’s very controversial amongst feminists, though. Much like everything else that has to do with sex.

As for the stigma of digging tunnels for a living versus the stigma of selling your body for a living, I don’t really think that they can be compared. For one thing, peddling flesh for frogskins is much lower in public esteem than digging tunnels. And the former consists of mostly women, whereas the latter consists of mostly men. Which says a great deal right there.

Sheelzebub of Pinko Feminist Hellcat and, later, Pandagon had an interesting post about a year ago regarding a former “Madam” (I forget which one, but she was in the media spotlight for quite some time, about a decade ago). She has attempted to start a legal brothel that would cater to heterosexual women in Nevada. She has been rebuffed at every term by the men whose good graces she needs to be in to get the place off the ground.

It’s things like that which speak volumes about which gender you have to be in order to get which manner of “liberation.” (Cough.) Leaving aside trans issues for the moment, as I’m less well-read there.

152. ms_xeno - 27 July 2007

Oh, and while I’m not a huge fan of Bright’s, at least we agree that what passes for sex-ed when you’re a kid just isn’t cutting it. My idea of a decent sex-ed tome would be more Our Bodies, Ourselves than either The Bible or some idiotic porn rag.

153. marisacat - 27 July 2007

Let the politicians and the media do their worst. == Paul

They do. Nothing to wait for or “let” them do.

Prostitution is illegal and thus (in SF, for instance) those who are sex workers of both sexes are liable for arrest. And both get abused… are vulnerable to stings and sweeps.. and so on.

There is a recently reported on surge in underage prostitutes in the E Bay, Oakland generally. There have been a lot of drug sweeps in recent years and more men have turned to pimping instead. And sadly, no end to girls for turning out.


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