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Ever Onward… 28 July 2007

Posted by marisacat in Afghanistan War, DC Politics, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Pakistan, WAR!.
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    Red mosque NYT photo
Hundreds of angry protesters clashed with the police on Friday when the Pakistani government tried to reopen the Red Mosque for prayers. [Tomas Munita for The New York Times]

NYT:

[A] presidential spokesman, Maj. Gen. Rashi Qureshi, denied the reports on Pakistani television, calling them “completely baseless,” according to Agence France-Presse. But a former official close to Ms. Bhutto, who did not want to be identified, confirmed the meeting, saying it took place in Abu Dhabi.

The former official described the encounter as “cordial” and said both leaders had agreed on the need to work together as moderates to counter rising attacks by hard-line Islamists in Pakistan.

General Musharraf offered to allow Ms. Bhutto, who lives in self-imposed exile in London and Dubai, to return to Pakistan and contest elections for prime minister, the former official said. But General Musharraf said he would continue to serve as both Pakistan’s president and chief of the army.

Ms. Bhutto objected to his holding both positions, according to the former official, but more meetings between their aides are expected. “The uniform is the problem,” the former official said, adding: “From his point of view, staying in uniform is the key to him staying in control of the levers of power. The civilians know that and are not going to accept that.”

The meeting added to speculation that Ms. Bhutto could return to politics in Pakistan as early as September. It was also an indicator of the relief General Musharraf is seeking from the pressures increasingly besieging him, from prodemocracy demonstrators to radical Islamists, who have carried out a rising number of attacks and were further antagonized by the Red Mosque siege.  [snip]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Truer words…  I snagged this from Angry Arab:

“Former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev criticized the United States, and President Bush in particular, on Friday for sowing disorder across the world by seeking to build an empire. Gorbachev, who presided over the break-up of the Soviet Union, said Washington had sought to build an empire after the Cold War ended but had failed to understand the changing world. “The Americans then gave birth to the idea of a new empire, world leadership by a single power, and what followed?” Gorbachev asked reporters at a news conference in Moscow.”

 

“What has followed are unilateral actions, what has followed are wars, what has followed is ignoring the U.N. Security Council, ignoring international law and ignoring the will of the people, even the American people,” he said.

No argument here…

Rival and enemy?
Many Russians view the United States as a rival and enemy.

Gorbachev, 76, who left politics after the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, is deeply unpopular in Russia. Though feted abroad, he is blamed in Russia for sinking the Soviet empire and plunging millions into poverty.

“When I look at today’s world I have a worrying feeling about the growth of world disorder,” he said.

“I don’t think the current president of the United States and his administration will be able to change the situation as it is developing now — it is very dangerous,” he said.

But before the Democrats puff out their chicken breasts in pride that they are not Bush:

Gorbachev said Russia’s hopes of building stronger ties with Washington had waned in the face of a series of U.S. administrations interested in building an empire.

Ooops.

  
  Members of the banned National Bolshevik Party throw leaflets from the roof of a union building in central Moscow.  [AP via BBC, July 26 2007]

*********************************************

UPDATE, 3:14 am…

Dancing as fast as we can, to keep all our little friends happy.  And stocked for war…

NYT:

Worried about the impression that the United States was starting an arms race in the region, State and Defense Department officials stressed that the arms deal was being proposed largely in response to improvements in Iran’s military capabilities and to counter the threat posed by its nuclear program, which the Bush administration contends is aimed at building nuclear weapons.

Oh that sneaky Iran.  So handy! 

Along with Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates are likely to receive equipment and weaponry from the arms sales under consideration, officials said. In general, the United States is interested in upgrading the countries’ air and missile defense systems, improving their navies and making modest improvements in their air forces, administration officials said, though not all the packages would be the same.

Ms. Rice is expected to announce Monday that the administration will open formal discussions with each country about the proposed packages, in hopes of reaching agreements by the fall.

Oh!  It is high season for arms deals!

Along with the announcement of formal talks with Persian Gulf allies on the arms package, Ms. Rice is planning to outline the new agreement to provide military aid to Israel, as well as a similar accord with Egypt.

The $30.4 billion being promised to Israel is $9.1 billion more than Israel has received over the past decade, an increase of nearly 43 percent.

… 

In defending the proposed sale to Saudi Arabia and other gulf states, the officials noted that the Saudis and several of the other countries were in talks with suppliers other than the United States. If the packages offered to them by the United States are blocked or come with too many conditions, the officials said, the Persian Gulf countries could turn elsewhere for similar equipment, reducing American influence in the region.

The United States has made few, if any, sales of satellite-guided munitions to Arab countries in the past, though Israel has received them since the mid-1990s as part of a United States policy of ensuring that Israel has a military edge over its regional rivals.

Israeli officials have made specific requests aimed at eliminating concerns that satellite-guided bombs sold to the Saudis could be used against its territory, administration officials said.

Their major concern is not a full-scale Saudi attack, but the possibility that a rogue pilot armed with one of the bombs could attack on his own or that the Saudi government could one day be overthrown and the weapons could fall into the hands of a more radical regime, officials said.

Talk about Goodie Bags!  Whatever!  Air kiss, air kiss (can’t you just see Condi and Tzipi Livni?)… have a glass of champagne to seal the deal…

*************************************

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Comments»

1. JJB - 28 July 2007

“The National Bolshevik Party”? I don’t like the sound of that, or the look of that flag.

So now Musharraff, no doubt in complete desperation, is making nice with Benazir Bhutto, leader of the primary opposition party and one of the more arrogant and greedy kleptocrats of the last 30 years. It was under her last stint as PM that the Taliban was able to take control of Afghanistan, with the considerable support of the Pakistani security services. This meeting was the result of considerable lobbying on the part of this country, BTW, there have been rumors about a deal in which she would return, run for PM, and Musharraff would give up his post as head of the military and remain president in a sort of national unity government. Ordinarily I’d say this deal makes sense, but Bhutto and her husband will probably blow it by stealing too much of what there is to be stolen. She couldn’t even split the loot fairly within her own family, which operated like a South Asian version of the Borgias (minus the incest). Looks like we’ve found another Ahmed Chalabi to link our fortunes to, although it should be said that, unlike Chalabi, Bhutto does have considerable popular support.

The Wikipedia entry on Bhutto is worth a gander.

I’m always amused by how this country rationalizes arms sales to the like of Saudi Arabia by talking about how this will help them defend themselves against Iran or, in days gone by, Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. If Saddam had ever decided to invade SA, the battle would have been very short. The ruling clique that runs the desert kingdom can count on the loyalty of a very small percentage its subjects, and that portion of the population is located far from the only parts of the kingdom Saddam would have attacked, i.e., the Eastern Persian Gulf provinces, which is where almost all the oil is, and where the predominantly Shiite population hates the ruling Wahabi clan. Hell, they had most of our advanced weaponry back in 1990, and we had to send our army there to protect them when Saddam seized Kuwait. We sell them and the other tiny emirates these weapons so they can act as our eyes and ears in that part of the world, and so they can more tightly control their own peoples.

2. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

War, death and profit … some will support endless expansion of the first two in pursuit of the third, and if anyone thinks there are limits, they should face facts that the very rich and very greedy and very authoritarian aren’t really much different now than their grandpappies were:

In November 1934, federal investigators uncovered an amazing plot involving some two dozen senior businessmen, a good many of them Wall Street financiers, to topple the government of the United States and install a fascist dictatorship. Roth’s novel is developed from several strands of this factual account; he assumed the plot is actually carried out, whereas in fact an alert FDR shut it down but stopped short of retaliatory measures against the plotters. A key element of the plot involved a retired prominent general who was to have raised a private army of 500,000 men from unemployed veterans and who blew the whistle when he learned more of what the plot entailed. The plot was heavily funded and well developed and had strong links with fascist forces abroad. A story in the New York Times and several other newspapers reported on it, and a special Congressional committee was created to conduct an investigation. The records of this committee were scrubbed and sealed away in the National Archives, where they have only recently been made available.

Makes you shudder to think what will be revealed seventy years from now, doesn’t it … if there IS any kind of archive seventy years from now.

In November 1934, federal investigators uncovered an amazing plot involving some two dozen senior businessmen, a good many of them Wall Street financiers, to topple the government of the United States and install a fascist dictatorship. Roth’s novel is developed from several strands of this factual account; he assumed the plot is actually carried out, whereas in fact an alert FDR shut it down but stopped short of retaliatory measures against the plotters. A key element of the plot involved a retired prominent general who was to have raised a private army of 500,000 men from unemployed veterans and who blew the whistle when he learned more of what the plot entailed. The plot was heavily funded and well developed and had strong links with fascist forces abroad. A story in the New York Times and several other newspapers reported on it, and a special Congressional committee was created to conduct an investigation. The records of this committee were scrubbed and sealed away in the National Archives, where they have only recently been made available.

Ah, even the might FDR, stupidly letting “distinguished” criminals off the hook, and here we are.

Of course, I was aware of this, but it’s interesting that it’s suddenly getting more airing. I think it’s party because of the opening of this archive (and again, why now?) and with people like Cindy Sheehan trumpeting Smedley Butler’s name on mainstream media.

As usual, the BBC puts together a compelling presentation. You can listen/download it here, includes a wonderful reading of Butler’s testimony.

3. D. Throat - 28 July 2007

Fuck ‘em

Schumer: Roberts, Alito ‘duped’ us at their confirmation hearings

Were we too easily impressed by the charm of nominee Roberts,” asks New York Sen. Charles Schumer at a recent speech to the American Constitution Society, “and the erudition of nominee Alito?”

Given the recent 5-4 decisions on abortion rights, free speech and integration in schools, Sen. Schumer feels as though the Senate Judiciary Committee was “duped” during confirmation hearings for the two most recent additions to the US Supreme Court: Bush nominees Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito.

Continues Schumer, “Did we mistakenly vote our hopes when our fears were more than justified by the ultraconservative records of these two men?”

“Yes.”

This just confirms without a shadow of a doubt that the Dems in office are incompetent fools and disingenuous liars… just like them voting to invade Iraq the Congressional Democrats kinda missed the millions of people protesting…. they can go to hell. Must be some nasty internal polls showing up… they have to be hitting single digits for the Congress… and very well deserved. Funny how all the sleazy white boyz were cheering them on…

4. Tuston - 28 July 2007

I realize the Tillman “revelations” have been discussed in previous threads, but the following graf tickled my funny bone (albeit in a very darkly humorous fashion:

The chaplain said that O’Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman’s side, “crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God’s not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling -‘”

Pinned under hostile fire, Tillman goes George Patton on a cowering comrade and gets fragged for his overwrought bluster. And yet: “No evidence of enemy fire was found at the scene. No one was hit by enemy fire, and no government equipment was struck.”

It’s all so very Lindsay Lohan. She wasn’t driving: “it was the black kid.” And the pants she was wearing with the cocaine in the pocket? “Those aren’t my pants!” The thing is, when it’s the military that’s drunk and barreling down the freeway, boasting “I can do whatever the fuck I want,” it can.

I’ve got to slither off to work, al rato vatos…

5. D. Throat - 28 July 2007

Remember these people didn’t even prepare for Alito’s testimony…. Reid was upset when Kerry telephoned his protest from the ski slopes of Davos… upset because it messed up his news cycle that the Dems were in 100% agreement… that was all Reid was concerned about … a 24 hour news cycle… not the next 24 years.

Now the GOP in the minority are kicking the Dems butt and they are still whining that they do not have the power or the intellectual capacity to lead.

6. Tuston - 28 July 2007

whoops forgot the linky:

Rigorous Intuition

7. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

So, perhaps Calderon wishes he was el Presidente of El Salvador.

8. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

Glenn Beck welcomed the head of the John Birch society on his show (earning “Worst Person in the World” from Olbermann for his troubles). Neiwert at Orcinus has some thoughts:

Be sure to also check out Heidi’s careful debunking of numerous false “facts” that form the core of the nativists’ positions. Not that they’ll really help anyone dealing with the Glenn Becks of the world, because they have a gift for tuning out anything that contradicts their pet narratives.

And Beck is busy building a narrative that not only opens the Pandora’s Box of mass public consumption of far-right conspiracism, it also portrays the most hateful and paranoid and poisonous bloc of American politics as credible and normative.

In the 1990s, the main reason that most “New World Order” theories gained little traction was that mainstream journalists understood that they were sheer crackpottery and refused to treat them seriously. Now, in the name of “pushing the envelope” and garnering ratings by courting controversy, we’re witnessing mainstream pundits report them to the public as credible.

Evidently, this sort of thing not only doesn’t hurt Glenn Beck’s career, we’ve now entered the realm where it positively helps it. It’s not only a journalistic travesty, it’s a cultural one. Glenn Beck may gain, but the rest of us, within the next few years, will wind up paying the price.

9. D. Throat - 28 July 2007

There used to be a time when DK tried in earnest to debunk the MSM memes… now it is clear that they are their number one promoters…

Noam Scheiber Puts the Final Nail in the DLC Coffin
by Susan S
Sat Jul 28, 2007 at 04:01:59 AM PDT

In an absolutely dead-on column in today’s New York Times, the New Republic’s Noam Scheiber tells us why the Democratic Leadership Council is no longer relevant in our political world. It’s a great obituary.

While most of the Democratic candidates for president will be visiting YearlyKos next weekend, no one will be showing up for the DLC meeting this weekend:

Who the hell is she fooling… the DLC is dead … yeah right

… and no one has noticed that the former DLC Chairman is a regular on Open Left…

The DLC is dead… long live the DLC.

It has been noted elsewhere that while the DLC is fighting to restore it’s tax status that they have to tune down the partisan rhetoric… which surely means that all of the Dem Candidates can not show up to the DLC Conversation….

Wednesday, March 28, 2007
Democratic Leadership Council a 501(c)(4)?

The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) determined that the Democratic Leadership Council Inc. (DLC) which previously filed as a 501(c)(4) organization, was not eligible for tax exempt status. The group then filed a lawsuit to seek a reversal of the IRS determination. A hearing was scheduled for last September, but then canceled when lawyers for both parties agreed that the hearing was not necessary. But now the judge has changed his mind and according to BNA Money and Politics ($$) the judge has scheduled oral arguments for April 23.

The IRS claimed that the group operated for the benefit of Democratic political candidates, but the DLC argued that it is a “think tank”.

Partisan political activities may not be the primary purpose of a 501(c)(4). This is an exceptional case because the tax status of an organization involved in politics is being handled in court rather than by the IRS.

Lawyers for the DLC said that the groups work is not meant to help Democrats in campaigns and is independent of the Democratic Party.

Like I said that was a day pre-mass banning of progressives and libruls someone would have put this idiot right…

Scheiber’s column is a good sign (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
dkmich, va dare

We need more of this kind of public dissing of the DLC.

Carrie French, age 19, died in Iraq on June 5, 2005. Why?

by Susan S on Sat Jul 28, 2007 at 04:34:49 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

Gee… kinda remember also that many of those that were banned was because they “publically dissed” the DLC on DK…. I guess now it is okay since they are trying to perpetuate a lie that the DLC is ineffectual…

Well, 3/4 of the top contenders for the Dem (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Susan S

nomination this year have DLC ties in their history–Obama being the lone exception.

“[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential”–The Washington Post.

by Geekesque on Sat Jul 28, 2007 at 07:25:38 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

*
All of us have made mistakes. (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Geekesque

Let’s just hope they’ve learned from theirs.

Carrie French, age 19, died in Iraq on June 5, 2005. Why?

by Susan S on Sat Jul 28, 2007 at 07:46:40 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007
11. VAGreen - 28 July 2007

Madman,

Scroll down a little further into the thread, click on a link, and find out that Matthew also treated us to this wonderful piece of wisdom:

“Go Bush, Go!
Did the president really gut the Endangered Species Act yesterday while no one was paying attention? So I’ve heard, at any rate. If so, good riddance. You’ll all yell at me, I suppose, but really: Who cares? Species die, shit happens, get over it. Clean air, clean water, and lower carbon emissions I’ll get behind that stuff impacts, you know, people.”

12. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

Threat Level raises an important question:

The real question is what was this program doing when the upper echelon at the Justice Department and FBI Director Robert Mueller were prepared to resign over it?

All the clues and prior reporting point to a widespread data mining program that seems to have involved:

– real-time computer analysis of the content of phone and internet traffic
massive data-mining of the domestic and overseas phone records of nearly every American

– NSA operators listening in, without warrants, to purely domestic phone calls, using the data-mining and computer sifting to figure out which calls seem suspicious

– a continual stream of mostly useless leads being fed to FBI counter-terrorism agents

Some combination of these were probably enough to make civil liberties advocates out of then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, FBI Director Robert Mueller and a small cadre of Republican Justice Department lawyers. Marty Lederman has a guess too.

Certainly a few people in Washington know what surveillance architecture was being built and how effective it was. That group may include Democrats Jay Rockefeller, Jane Harman, Nancy Pelosi and Tom Daschle. Perhaps Congress should call them to testify as well.

13. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

I saw that VAGreen … another spoiled “libertarian” fratboy.

14. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007
15. Revisionist - 28 July 2007

The Kos Kidz who are commenting on this ugly diary seem to have come to a consensus—it was planted by “LGFers” to make them look bad.

Of course, there’s no need to “plant” anything at Daily Kos; this kind of conspiracy thinking and deranged hatred of their own government can be found all over the site. Planting articles would be like bringing sand to a desert.

16. ms_xeno - 28 July 2007

Since it was mentioned in the last thread, an excellent gathering of Oaxaca posts by brownfemipower, at Woman of Color Blog.

17. Miss Devore - 28 July 2007

BHHM-here’s a pre-fab “large orange thing”:

http://tinyurl.com/2s3vkz

18. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

LOL … he’s out of linky control!

The Return of Reefer Madness:

Okay, so what does this Brazen New Scientific Study come down to? A bunch of scientists tracked herb smokers and found that some of these people also had incidents of mental illness. Wait, wait! I know what you are saying. You are saying “Hey! I took a fundamental class in statistics in my open-enrollment community college and one of the very first things we learned is that correlation does not equal causality!” But see, you’re only saying that because you’re baked. Any sober and serious scientist knows that it’s not endless wars and inhuman living conditions and tyrannical governments and gaping class divisions and racism and poverty and fear and a world gone mad that is causing people to go crazy, and perhaps seek some relief in harmless recreation; no, we live in a utopian paradise in which some otherwise upright and healthy citizens make the dread error of smoking the herb stalk WHICH THEN MAKES THEM STARK RAVING MAD!!!

So ware the Wacky Weed! Keep Shopping! Vote your Fear! And remember: War is Peace, Prozac is Happiness, Restless Legs are not caused by sitting on your ass too much, and Weed Will Steal Your Brains. Oh, and while we’re at it, Jazz is devil music.

19. ms_xeno - 28 July 2007

:D

Play that devil music, White Boy…

(Sigh.)

Sometime, I really must tell you all about how much the company I work for spends every month testing employees for pot. Quite the cash cow for labs and hospitals, is the ol’ reefer madness…

20. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

Members of the banned National Bolshevik Party throw leaflets from the roof of a union building in central Moscow.

Banned from Daily Kos? ;)

US arms sales policy: Let’s just arm everybody and let them all kill each other – as long as we get the oil, it’s all good.

21. Revisionist - 28 July 2007

The hammer and sickle is very 19th century.

22. Revisionist - 28 July 2007
23. Miss Devore - 28 July 2007

22-I suspect the Prophet did not have IED’s nor kalishnikovs in his time.

24. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

Speaking of ice:

GLOUCESTER, Mass. (AP) – After nearly two years, thousands of kilometres and $12.5 million in storage costs, a cold relic of the flawed hurricane Katrina relief effort is going down the drain.

The federal government is getting rid of thousands of kilograms of ice it had sent south to help Katrina victims, then north when it determined much of the ice was not needed. The Federal Emergency Management Agency had been hanging on to the ice in case it was needed for another disaster, but decided to get rid of it because it could not determine whether it was still safe for human consumption.
[…]
The Army Corps of Engineers acknowledged after the August 2005 hurricane that it had ordered too much ice because of faulty estimates by local officials. Truckers received up to $900 a day to move the ice to storage sites around the country.

As for Yglesias, maybe he needs to read some literature about endagered species.

25. ms_xeno - 28 July 2007

Yglesias makes me think of the line from the Simpsons about how great it is to be a White guy in your late 20s/early 30s. “Everybody cares about my opinions. No matter how stupid they are.”

Maybe he was having an off day. Or maybe the myriad recommendations I’ve read for his posts around the blogosphere are written by people even dumber and more shallow than he comes across in that excerpt.

26. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

the hammer and sickle is very Sunnydale, my friend.

27. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

Hypocrisy:

VIENNA, Austria (AP) – Soldiers from countries whose armies are suspected of engaging in torture or other abuse should not be considered for peacekeeping duty, the UN’s chief anti-torture investigator says.

UN special rapporteur Manfred Nowak said in an interview for Monday’s editions of the Austrian news magazine Profil that the world body’s standards for selecting peacekeepers are too low, and suggested it should reconsider forming its own professional standing army.

Concerns about the quality, training and ethics of soldiers are growing as developing countries with questionable human rights records increasingly are tapped for troops for international peacekeeping operations, Nowak said.

“The criteria are not very high,” he told Profil, which released excerpts of the interview on Saturday. “The UN must impose stricter standards in recruiting soldiers.”

Nowak did not mention past abuses by soldiers from the U.S., Britain and other Western countries who have formed the bulk of many peacekeeping operations worldwide.

I guess western soldiers commit acts of kinder, gentler torture.

And here’s one Dem who favours a UN army: Joe Biden, who introduced a resolution back in 1993:

Biden’s Senate resolution would reduce congressional oversight of the use of American military force. The resolution states that “the President shall not be deemed to require the authorization of the Congress to make [American troops] available to the Security Council on its call.” Having encumbered the President’s ability to deploy forces as commander in chief with the War Powers Act, Congress now wishes to make the President accountable to unelected U.N. bureaucrats. Biden apparently believes that the President should be restricted in his ability to defend purely national interests, but free to commit forces in defense of more “noble” multinational interests.

28. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

I find it depressing that I knew nothing about Nancy Cunard until I heard about this book on an interview w/ the author on NPR last week, and I’m fairly well informed. I wonder how many admirable individuals are sucked up by the sands of time while I’m forced to endure celebrations of monsters like Nixon and Reagan, and of toadies like Ford?

29. supervixen - 28 July 2007

I admire what Jesse Ventura once said about pot: something along the lines of “I’ve done much worse things when I’ve been drunk than when I’ve been stoned.”

30. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

I see bubba was also in favour of a UN standing army in 2000.

And this is ironic:

The idea of a UN emergency force first surfaced after World War II, when hopes for an activist world body were at their highest. But it wasn’t until 1994, in the aftermath of the Rwanda genocide, that it was considered seriously. At that time, the United States worried that it would become an out-of-control “UN army,” and developing countries felt threatened by what they saw as an interventionist force directed by the West. [kind of like – exactly like – the US military. -catnip]

Jeebus, NATO can’t even get any more troops committed to Afghanistan and the US military machine is on its last legs. Where do they expect these UN army troops to come from?

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

Why Do Doctors Get to Decide When a Woman Is Old Enough to Have Her ‘Tubes Tied’?.

There there, little girl … you’re much too young/female/stupid/irresponsible/naive to make such a choice. How do you think your eventual HUSBAND will feel?

~~~~~~ madman bangs head on desk ~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seriously, I don’t understand why women don’t take up arms.

32. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

Maybe he was having an off day.

I think you’re being far too kind. I’ll bet he has a dartboard poster of Knut (who, ironically, now now has his own book – but since Yglesias hates literature, he’ll obviously never read it. Mind you, it does have pictures, so that might get his attention.)

33. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

god, this article just gets worse:

According to Brooks, “The argument that these women might change their minds is a paternalistic argument. It questions a woman’s inner knowing, her own path in life. It also suggests that women don’t know what’s best for them and that they have to defer to a medical authority to make life decisions.”

Yet doctors routinely make life decisions for other people. And with more than three decades of practice, Dr. Wiener isn’t about to question his proficiency on the subject:

“Why do we arbitrarily choose thirty? Because of the thirty years of practice in my life. Because of the number of years of experience that we, as physicians, have come to see that twenty-five, twenty-six, twenty-seven year old women have, historically, more often than not, told you they regretted their decision to get their tubes tied.”

Paternalistic asshole.

Meanwhile, right now, several surgeons are undoubtably cutting holes in a 19-year-old’s check to make her tits bigger. Apparently distorting your body and inserting foreign objects into it, in order to be “sexy”, IS a decision that a teenager can make.

This country is so fucked.

34. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

oops, I really miss “preview” … that would be HOLES in CHESTS.

nothing ruins a good rant quicker than shitty typing.

35. brinn - 28 July 2007

re# 29
fuck. Madman, that article is disgusting! One of my best friends got her tubes tied in the hospital after she had her second kid — she was 21 and said to the doc: no more, I am done, so while I’m here….it just fucking pisses me off to think that had she come in and said I want my tubes tied sans children that she would have been given this run around. This is SO MUCH FUCKING BULLSHIT.

Any ideas on whether men wanting vasectemies are not considered “mature” enough at 25 to get them?

36. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

dkos poll.

(Yes Mr Vagina, the evul VAGs are freeping your polls once again. Mwahahaha… Oh but I forgot, you won’t notice because you quit mcat’s blog “cold turkey”. How’s that working out for you?)

37. brinn - 28 July 2007

Dr Weiner is aptly named!! what a ginormous DICK!

38. brinn - 28 July 2007

heh, catnip — I chose “Slow, night of the dead zombies…” ;)

39. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

no idea … I hate doctors and wasn’t interested in letting one anywhere near me with a sharp instrument. I imagine that they get less hassle, but I doubt that they’d have anywhere near as much trouble finding one. Also, vasectomies are more easily reversed. A quick google does reveal a study that has … “findings show vasectomy to be physically and psychologically safe in both childless men and fathers.”

40. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

Nice knowing you:

Progressive, tolerant Americans who believe in fr (0 / 0)

Progressive, tolerant Americans who believe in free speech. What, ya gotta be kidding me LMAO. Free speech only when you want it, not anyone else. I mean, look at the way you all trash Cindy Sheehan, you name call and trash people like your back in middle school. Please, progressive, tolerants who beleive in free speech, yea and Unicorns are real.

by nccanuck on Sat Jul 28, 2007 at 11:17:14 AM MDT

41. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

heh, catnip — I chose “Slow, night of the dead zombies…”

Me too. sssshhh! ;)

42. bayprairie - 28 July 2007

“In Ghazaliya it is forbidden to sell ice because the takfiris said the Prophet Muhammad had no ice in his time,”

History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom

…In 1798 an Anti-vaccination Society was formed by physicians and
clergymen, who called on the people of Boston to suppress
vaccination, as “bidding defiance to Heaven itself, even to the
will of God,” and declared that “the law of God prohibits the
practice.”…

43. marisacat - 28 July 2007

Just got several out of moderation (sorry!)

a couple from Liberal Catnip, from Madman… so they are sprinkled up thread.

44. bayprairie - 28 July 2007

Hey madman, you’ve got to look on the bright side. things could always be worse, eh?

As far back as the year 1591, Eufame Macalyane, a lady of rank, being charged with seeking the aid of Agnes Sampson for the relief of pain at the time of the birth of her two sons, was burned alive on the Castle Hill of Edinburgh; and this old theological view persisted even to the middle of the nineteenth century. From pulpit after pulpit Simpson’s ((Scotch physician who in 1847 advocated the use of anaesthetics for obstetrical cases)) use of chloroform was denounced as impious and contrary to Holy Writ; texts were cited abundantly, the ordinary declaration being that to use chloroform was “to avoid one part of the primeval curse on woman.” …

45. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

There’s a new cop in town:

Well, another “concerned citizen” here (0 / 0)

Listen up, skippy….

“Free Speech” is allowed and encouraged, unless it constitutes lies, slander, mis-statement of facts, or “hate speech” designed to incite violence. At which point, society is required to say, “Sorry, your right to speak freely is suspended.”

No one has the right to speak things that are detrimental to a society; if you can’t play nice, we have every right to eject you from the clubhouse.

“Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati” – Red Green

by FlashfyreSP on Sat Jul 28, 2007 at 12:44:22 PM MDT

46. supervixen - 28 July 2007

Who the fuck is “FlashfyreSP”? I have no recollection of seeing that userID anywhere on DKos during my 2.5 years there. Nor “andgarden”. Or several more of the new “kops”.

Sockpuppets of DarkSyde/DD/DH et al., I’m thinking.

47. Revisionist - 28 July 2007

#46 – I did an expose on andgarden earlier this week. UID does not match time he started posting. His first post was around July 6th. In 3 weeks he racked up over 1000 comments. Maybe he is just a bored college student who lurked for a year after signing up who has nothing to do over the summer.

48. brinn - 28 July 2007

Been reading America 2014: An Orweliian Tale (2004) this week….I highly recommend it, both as a well-told story and as social commentary….

You can find out about it and order it direct here

has anyone here read it?

49. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

Sockpuppets of DarkSyde/DD/DH et al., I’m thinking.

Nope. Not from what I’ve found. He’s just a new member of the patrol.

50. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 July 2007

Revisionist, actually Andgarden was around and posting long before this month. When you do a search on someone, you have to click on the ‘archive’ box to the left of the page. A lot of people don’t realize that and get only the posts for the past few weeks …. but you’re right about the college student part since that what he claims to be.

A lot of them have taken new handles and now have high UIDs … and I’m sure they all have several ‘sockpuppets’ approved by kos eg, ‘blogswarm’ outed by DhinMi ….

if you can’t play nice, we have every right to eject you from the clubhouse.

Rotfl … you mean the way you all ejected a three-times banned, liberal-bashing Rightwing troll from Redstate? Not to mention the welcoming committee for same rightwing ‘troll’ composed of otherwise dedicated ‘twoll hunters’ BarbinMd and elise? They are a laugh a minute, once you stop taking them seriously …

Too funny. Zero credibility. Their FAQs and their troll kops are are the SNL of blog hilarity ….

51. jam.fuse - 28 July 2007

If I was a contractor
and you were dick cheney
would you slaughter me anyway?
would you eat my baby?

52. supervixen - 28 July 2007

SB: Too funny. Zero credibility. Their FAQs and their troll kops are are the SNL of blog hilarity ….

What I find hilarious is that they are all atwitter (don’t you love the way that word has “twit” as a central component) about being dissed by Bill O’Reilly!!! Could there be anything more ridiculous and irrelevant? It’s good, though – they’ll be wasting their time and energy, and raving like idiots, all during the run-up to Yearly Kos. Fun and games! Break out the popcorn.

53. BooHooHooMan - 28 July 2007

dee- orange thingy on lockdown (behind wall)

On Hill /Obama

No small group of whitebreaders I’ve read on some of our erstwhile* “progressive Dem” blogs suggest an Obama VP slot.
So they really think a Goldwater gal would go to the ball with a….
[now look over your shoulders twice and lower your voice in the awkward way many white people do even at home before whispering the most discrete of words:]
a BLACK man.

* (I get a nickle from the Erstwhile Reality Group every time I use “erstwhithe” )

54. JJB - 28 July 2007

Revisionist,

Numerous people have gotten themselves multiple IDs, some because they were there to cause trouble and wanted to be able to keep on causing it after they’d get banned. Some people did it to be able to rate their own comments. There was one character who’d actually engage in a three-way dialog with himself. He got found out because he’d give recommends to all his comments, and virtually no one else would. He ended up with 3 trusted user IDs as a result. He was also prone to troll-rate people who disagreed with him, so someone did a little detective work on him and complained, also mentioning his suspicions in a comment thread. It was discovered that his 3 IDs were all posting from the same IP address, so he was triple-banned at one time, sort of a Holy Trinity thing. He came back under another handle, got banned again, came back again, got banned again. He may still be getting new ones and getting banned. Some people have nothing better to do.

55. marisacat - 28 July 2007

hmm i have a NH emailer who sent some links (The Hill and to BLue NH, the Miss Laura whatever).. rumblings in NH (from Sullivan the former head of the NHDP) that Hodes moved too quick too fast to endorse Obama.

But my emailer added that, in his/her estimation, the Hodes “grassroots” were bought and paid for by Rahm/DCCC. As were a lot of ads. Payback time.

Here are the links, I was just catching up to the emails:

The Hill

Blue NH (came with a note to pay attention to the comments)

And you know, if Hodes owes Rahm… his Chief of Staff does too… ;)

56. supervixen - 28 July 2007

42, bay:

In 1798 an Anti-vaccination Society was formed by physicians and clergymen, who called on the people of Boston to suppress vaccination

And let us not forget the “good Christians” who objected to relieving the pain of childbirth with anesthesia, an innovation made by this heroic Scottish obstetrician.

57. BooHooHooMan - 28 July 2007

SV, they shouldn’t be aflutter by the nutter btu they are.I’ll come back to that in a bit.
All the FP’s are driving this in coordination. I’d even give them cred if it was viral marketing or buzz creation by design.
Their diaphoresis now comes from the simple fact that they DO coordinate in-thread beat-ups , they DO have multilpe screen identities which they use to target and harrass those “deviant” from the latest top-down position. The squemish who don’t quite fully engage in this regard DO have knowledge of it. Meanwhile, within the Pcult, these people actually think we are going to be able to pot luck or catered- affair our way to RESULTS. If microbrews enjoyed is the metric of success, then all’s well. Semi regular readers and poster won’t see it.

The FP seaters, and their hallow cheerleading sock puppets can easily be illustrated like the doctored Bush campaign photos with the repetitively pasted group of soldiers in the background. Flimsy house of card no matter how much media attention it is getting now. Perhaps that is a clue in itself.

58. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

fuck Xtianity … an entire life view that rests on HATING on human life, rejecting human life, PUNISHING human life … especially if that human life has a vagina.

59. BooHooHooMan - 28 July 2007

Sorry for my atrocious typing BUT (not btu) I am working on it,

Pcult = cult lol

60. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

interesting video produced by a union in LA

LA Department of Water and Power in Crisis

61. supervixen - 28 July 2007

58 – Madman, have you read Mary Daly? On that topic, she says it all, with scathing wit and erudition.

62. supervixen - 28 July 2007

59 – BHHM, Pcult = cult lol

Well you know, the first thing I thought of was PFunk and how cool it would be if George Clinton were running for Prez instead of Hill.

There is a good album of PFunk covers, updated with scratchy DJ effects etc., by a group called the Clinton Administration – featuring the brilliant Skerik.

63. BooHooHooMan - 28 July 2007

I missed the gem of catnips # 40. LOL : )

64. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

no, I haven’t. Any recs?

65. marisacat - 28 July 2007

South Africa’s Independent Online says the Red Mosque closed ‘indefinitely”

Islamabad – Pakistani government on Saturday sealed the troubled Red Mosque in the capital a day after a suicide attack killed 15, including eight police officers, during clashes between Islamic extremists and security forces at its reopening.

Hundreds of police officers set up new checkpoints and cordoned off the area around the compound with barbed wire.

“The mosque will now remain closed for an indefinite period,” Interior Ministry spokesperson Javid Cheema said.

Security in Islamabad was also boosted to avoid further mosque retaliatory attacks.

Police were deployed at all entry and exit points of the capital and nearby city of Rawalpindi, where security forces were put on high alert. [snip]

They added a cute tidbit that post mortem surgery ws done to make the face of the sucide bomber recognisable.

Lordy.

66. BooHooHooMan - 28 July 2007

Compassionate Misanthrope.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/us/politics/29letter.html

“Since Xmas vacation, I’ve gone through three and a half metamorphoses and am beginning to feel as though there is a smorgasbord of personalities spread before me,” Ms. Rodham wrote to Mr. Peavoy in April 1967. “So far, I’ve used alienated academic, involved pseudo-hippie, educational and social reformer and one-half of withdrawn simplicity.”

67. BooHooHooMan - 28 July 2007

Out for a bit need to pick up the daughter, the boyfriend, anti anxiety meds….

68. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007
69. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

hey, I’m a proud misanthrope … PLEASE don’t lump me in with that worthless, careerist, self-serving, venal, conscienceless political hack. Who the hell “uses” social poses like that OTHER than a fucking near-sociopath?

70. marisacat - 28 July 2007

From Novakula today:

TIM JOHNSON’S RETURN

Solicitations for a Sept. 12 fund-raising reception in Washington on behalf of ailing Sen. Tim Johnson give the impression he will be present at the event, but in fact there are no such plans.

Sources close to Johnson say he will not decide his schedule until he is back in the Senate, and there is no firm schedule yet for that. Johnson has not been seen publicly since suffering a brain hemorrhage last Dec. 13, but his staff has been raising funds for his re-election campaign in South Dakota. His campaign has $1.75 million cash on hand.

The $1,000-to-$2,300-a-ticket reception will be held at the home of Johnson’s fellow South Dakotan, former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, and his wife, transportation industry lobbyist Linda Daschle, on Foxhall Road millionaire’s row in Washington. It has been speculated that if Johnson cannot run, Daschle could attempt a political comeback.

71. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007
72. Revisionist - 28 July 2007
73. ms_xeno - 28 July 2007

Moore continues the two-party dance. Yes, the current system will really motivate the remaining 50% of voters to pick whichever overprivileged fuckhead pretends the hardest that he gives a damn about the poor slobs in Moore’s film. Hilary, I guess. He went quite easy on her in one of his CNN interviews a few weeks ago, instead of giving her the taking-down that she needs as badly as the rest of them do. I guess he’s gotten the word that he’d best curry favor if he wants to keep making films in her New New World Order.

Yawn.

You used to be smarter than that, Michael. You really do frustrate the living shit out of me, the way you venture out just far enough to propose solutions that are no solutions at all.

74. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

The censorship spreads:

Trolling around the interwebs today, ostensibly taking advantage of a day off from work by looking for a new job … There certainly are a lot of online employment resources out there these days. Holy shit. Anyhow, taking a well-deserved break from such an irritating and odious pastime, I order another beer and point my laptop towards Democratic Underground, where I stumble over a post by Skinner entitled:

“In case there is any confusion: You cannot use DU to support Cindy Sheehan’s third-party candidacy.”

Well, that’s more than enough to grab my feeble attention. He goes on to write:

“As you know, Cindy Sheehan announced that she is going to run for Congress against Nancy Pelosi as an independent candidate. This post is to remind everyone that supporting Cindy Sheehan’s independent candidacy is not permitted on this website. If Cindy had chosen to run as a Democrat in the Democratic primary then you would have been permitted to support her campaign here, but instead she chose to run as an independent.”

Now, honestly, there are so many things about this declamation that chap my ass, I hardly know where to begin. Skinner goes on to quote DU “rules,” including:

“You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party for any political office.”

It’s all too clear, as if it wasn’t quite before, that the “Democratic” in “Democratic Underground” is a reference to the “big-D” variety. In the world of Skinner (and Kos and Move On, among others), perceived loyalty to a corrupted, thoroughly debased political wing of the corporate class (commonly referred to as the Democratic Party) trumps all other concerns, and precludes any possible discussion of what the concept “democratic” actually means. Controlling the agenda, shoe-horning the range and character of the discussion to fit into a narrow, pre-determined ideological framework, silencing dissent and any hint of criticism, telling people what they can and can’t talk about, and possessing a no-matter-what allegiance to a political machine — well, fuck me with a branding iron if that isn’t the M.O. of any number of anti-democratic wingnut pressure groups out there, working diligently to beat us all into submission and stuff fascism down our throats. Imposing no-compromise ideological discipline upon an online community with “Democratic” in its title makes Skinner and his cohorts fundamentally no different than the agenda-mongers at Fox News, or Drudge, or any other freeper-freaks irresponsibly polluting the body politic.

75. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

continued:

Skinner can believe any damn thing he wants — if he’s delusional enough to believe that the astoundingly pathetic and wretchedly servile DLC Democrats at the helm of the party, the Pelosis and Hoyers and Reids and all the rest, are the unsung saviors of the American Republic, that’s his problem. It’s a “free” country, as they say. On the other hand, censoring others who might not quite agree with you 100% of the time means only one thing: you’re nothing but a toweringly hypocritical asshole. As far as I’m concerned, that applies to Kos and all the other Frankenstein monsters of the “acceptable” democratic opposition as well. Fuck the lot of them.

By the by, I realize it’s a hell of a longshot, but I sincerely hope that Cindy wipes the floor with Pelosi’s useless, corporate-owned, off-the-table ass. Take that, Skinner.

76. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

Sadist that I am, I’m kind of watching the rerun of the Dem/YouTube debate where I heard Obama say he doesn’t take PAC money. That doesn’t exactly mesh with his history.

The Chicago Tribune reported in April:

“But his U.S. Senate campaign raised at least $1.2 million of its $15 million total from special-interest PACs, according to fundraising tracker PoliticalMoneyLine.com. And in January 2005, 20 days after he was sworn into the U.S. Senate, Obama launched his own PAC, Hopefund, which raised $4.4 million over two years, making it one of the largest PACs members of Congress have established to fund other candidates.

Obama has distributed Hopefund’s dollars to Democratic organizations across the country, the Tribune’s analysis shows, including in the early presidential battleground states of Iowa and New Hampshire as well as Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida.”

So all PAC money is evil, unless it goes to Obama — and all PACs are evil, except his.

And why is ActBlue PAC raising money for Obama?

77. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

I’m 100% behind Cindy, and I all of this EARLY pushback (not even getting sigs to get on the ballot, yet) shows that they’re fucking scared of this kind of populist challenge. Fuck DU, fuck DK and fuck the damned Donklephant party.

As for Moore, ms_xeno, as much as people like to accuse me of being a purist, I don’t expect perfection or purity or consistancy out of people acting politically. He’s raised an issue that wasn’t being dealt with. He’s disarmed the media and the attack dogs from PHARMa and the insurance companies so far. NO ONE has pushed this issue this effectively in years.

He CAN’T, if he’s trying to motivate people to get involved, burn down the two party system too. They are related fights, but also two different fights. It takes pressure on multiple points from multiple actors to move an issue like this.

The most important thing in his response to that young woman is that he didn’t mock her. He didn’t question her premise. He offered HIS solution as an alternative to HER assertion. THAT’S how it happens. That’s how it SHOULD work.

The whole genius of democracy is the tension between multiple pressure points … I despise Alexander Hamilton, but this country would not be what it is (for better and for worse) without the give-and-take between Hamilton, Adams, Burr and Jefferson (to mention just a few). THE CONFLICT IS THE THING. The CONFLICT and debate is how we muddle through. Moore, imperfect as he may be (and who is “perfect”) has advanced the debate. He’s MAKING the Donklephants confront it. He’s raised the issue that health care is a HUMAN RIGHT, and shouldn’t be slaved to profit.

78. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

I meant to add … move the Democratic Party by threatening that people will act AS THE MOB THE ELITES FEAR. THAT is what that young woman did, beautifully, and Moore basically said, “see … listen to me, or the Bastille will be stormed.”

Like the American woman in Paris said in “Sicko” … in France, the gov’t is afraid of the people. OUR gov’t needs to relearn that fear.

79. marisacat - 28 July 2007

I sort of like Alexander Hamilton. Well, like may not be quite the word. I think he is very American. Seems some intimation that his mother might have been of mixed race, or at the least of “low morals”… ;) I sort ot took it that she was an island (Caribbean) prostitute… unless that has been revised.

The other is Madison. When I read that his nickname was “The Knife” as he “could cut any deal” I laughed out loud. Another American.

I loved loved loved Mt Vernon and find I think of it often… But George was of another sort.

80. Hair Club for Men - 28 July 2007

I’m 100% behind Cindy, and I all of this EARLY pushback (not even getting sigs to get on the ballot, yet) shows that they’re fucking scared of this kind of populist challenge. Fuck DU, fuck DK and fuck the damned Donklephant party.

Back in 2006 when World Can’t Wait was organizing for their October 5th Rally several threads on DU about World Can’t Wait got over 500 comments but they were pulled because World Cant’ Wait was supposedly organizing against Democrats.

Of course at the time they weren’t. World Can’t Wait has some communist organizers in its inner circle but at the time they were trying very hard not to take a position between either party and in fact had several Democrats signing their “call” (including Conyers).

But they were banned from DU because of (even back then) the fact that they had Cindy Sheehan on a lot of their speakers lists.

81. ms_xeno - 28 July 2007

[shrug]

Moore can do what he likes, Madman. But his creative re-editing of Hillary’s history on the issue that is the subject of his damn movie really sticks in my craw. This is his life’s work, supposedly. Something he feels incredibly strongly about, but if a glorified sociopath like Hillary picks it up, crushes it, and stuffs it into her pocket– along with millions of those people he allegedly motivates to get up and vote, he won’t say or do anything to challenge her self-proclaimed right to do so. Hell, there’s no “if” about it. What Kerry did with the anti-movement, she will do with the pro-single payer movement, such as it is or might be in a year’s time.

Who knows ? If I were about thirty years younger, that might not matter to me so much. But I’m not. I’ve seen and heard too much and time is running out and I’m fed up. I’m on the cusp of joining the 50 Million who simply throw up their hands and refuse to participate in the farce even one more time.

And at least some of that desire is directly attributable to thinkers like Moore and their day-trippers’ approach. With apologies to The Beatles. Taken half the way there a few times too many, it took me a long time to find out. But I found out.

82. marisacat - 28 July 2007

DU had a big purge following the Nov 04 elections, like Dkos – and DU did theirs first. I can’t piece it all together anymore (too long ago) but it came out that the administration of DU is DLC.

And with Kos practically an offshoot of NDN and really a mouthpiece, pusher of centrist candidates and issues…

wellllllllll. We see who they all are…

83. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

I’m a big fan of Madison.

84. Hair Club for Men - 28 July 2007

On another note, the Mayor of Morristown New Jersey held an anti-immigrant rally this afternoon and a lot of the crowd was either Stormfront supporters or Ron Paul supporters.

Ron Paul really does have a lot of pretty nasty people pushing his campaign.

Of course the mayor of Morristown is also a Democrat and everybody knows how tightly controlled the New Jersey Democratic Party machine is. So in a sense, while Ron Paul may have had a lot of supporters at an anti-immigrant rally waiving signs, a Democratic Party mayor had over 200 police protecting that rally.

And don’t tell me Ray Lezniak or Frank Norcross (Corzine, Lautenberg and Mendendez’s puppet masters) wouldn’t discipline a mayor who was doing something they didn’t want.

http://www.pbase.com/srogouski/morristown&page=all

85. marisacat - 28 July 2007

LOL Just tell the mayor of Morristown not to sleep with the next Cipel who is also involved with the NJ state Homeland security pie…

What a mess it all is…

I am sure some townships will be finding ways around that ruling on the PA town’s (Haselton, sp?) effort to just about ban immigrants from within the city borders.

86. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

what creative re-editing. What I’ve seen is a him reminding her of what she did years ago, and calling her to account for the Pharma money she accepts now. He’s trying to shame her into changing.

I understand where you’re coming from, but … hell I don’t know what it is you’re demanding. He’s raised some issues that no one else was. That’s a plus. Who cares whether he’s burning Hillary in effigy? She sucks … I know she sucks, you know she sucks, but unless Daley takes over the party thru Rahm and Obama SHE runs the Donklephant party, her and the Moynahan/Kennedy machine. He’s trying to shame/force her into doing something. I agree that it’s not going to work, but it opens the field to more radical assaults.

87. Hair Club for Men - 28 July 2007

I am sure some townships will be finding ways around that ruling on the PA town’s (Haselton, sp?) effort to just about ban immigrants from within the city borders.

The Morristown Mayor wants to deputize I think 9 or 10 of his police officers as INS agents, essentially to put his local police under the federal government.

The Morristown police are actually *against* doing this. It means less control for them and more paperwork for them.

88. Hair Club for Men - 28 July 2007

LOL Just tell the mayor of Morristown not to sleep with the next Cipel who is also involved with the NJ state Homeland security pie

Cipel is actually back in Israel now. And McGreevey is in seminary school studying to be an Episcopalian minister.

89. brinn - 28 July 2007

re #73 — what prompted this commentary on MM, MsX?

I’m not sure I get your criticism that he proposes “solutions that are no solution at all” — I think his underlying point, in this movie and previous, in his several books, and in TV Nation is/was that it is WE who have to get up off of our asses and BE the solution.

90. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

exactly, brinn.

91. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 July 2007

rousing the rabble.

92. marisacat - 28 July 2007

The Morristown Mayor wants to deputize I think 9 or 10 of his police officers as INS agents, essentially to put his local police under the federal government. —– Hair Club

I used a story out of AZ a couple weeks ago on that, from a big segment on a PBS News Hour. They began it there, deputising cops and sheriffs, state troopers to be ICE agents, work wtih ICE.

HORRIFYING. And the Lehrer segment said it was spreading, they had over 70 inquiries on hwo to make it work.

Very frightening. And of course one of the people on for the AZ segement ws that friggin’ freak Arpaio, the sheriff that runs that jail down there… seems he has held on and held court for a couple decades now.

93. Hair Club for Men - 28 July 2007

HORRIFYING. And the Lehrer segment said it was spreading, they had over 70 inquiries on hwo to make it work.

Even worse was the fact that the Morristown NJ Police (as well as the Mendham, Morris Township, Morris County Sheriff’s department) brought out 200 riot cops to protect this rally organized by the Mayor himself.

Note the sign.

http://www.pbase.com/srogouski/image/82987730

http://www.pbase.com/srogouski/image/82987856

No mistaking that url.

Now look at this man’s tatoo. A spiderweb tatoo on the elbow symbolizes that you’re an Aryan Brotherhood member who’s killed a non white in prison. Of course I don’t think this guy’s actually in the “brotherhood”. He probably just thinks the tatoo is cool.

http://www.pbase.com/srogouski/image/82976113

94. marisacat - 28 July 2007

The real problem is the electoral system and that there is zero real (national) interest in changing it. With the Dem wins in 06 a lot of distress over just the voting systems (what a joke it all is) from the hodge podge ot issues of tampering, was tamped down. Forget issues of winner take all.

And of course the big chance to look at the Electoral College would have to arise out of 00… LOL won’t be happening.

A lot of people see no option beyond the two party system, other than small limited prossibly ephemeral wiggle room in certain local areas.

95. Hair Club for Men - 28 July 2007

Another interesting (and disturbing) thing.

This site’s an aggregator for the local New Jersey press.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/07/immigration_protests_draw_500.html

The comments are 20 to 1 in favor of the anti-immigrant protesters. And this is deep, deep blue American dominated by liberal democrats.

96. Intermittent Bystander - 28 July 2007

Marisacat at #55 – Interesting reading in BlueHampshire comments.

You write: (0.00 / 0)
(I have noticed this pattern of ?objective commentary? on this blog by people that have obvious conflicts of interest and never fully disclose the extent of their involvement on an issue or candidate. This dramatically compromises that integrity of this site as a source of information on NH politics.)

If you want a source of information for NH politics, I would try Google News searches, which is what I do. If you want that info presented by posters who are obviously partisans or enthusiasts or activists of some kind within the progressive movement, come to Blue Hampshire.

Given what seems to be a fair amount of background knowledge of CSP’s campaign, should we be asking you to disclose that information? If you were paid, then yes (see below).

There are a million shades of gray in astroturfing, and it’s something that happens on any political blog. Sockpuppets, however, are another matter, to wit: [emphasis mine]

Blue Hampshire makes no disclosure requirements for supporters, but we make it very clear in our Getting Started page that people who actually are paid by a campaign should be disclosing:

Full Disclosure
Paid campaign staffers, workers, and elected politicians’ staffers are very much invited to join the conversation here with comments and diaries, but are asked to provide full disclosure. A good place to do this is in your Comment Signature line which can be updated in the Profile section of your user page. If you post a diary with no intent to comment, then provide disclosure somewhere in the text of the diary.

Wonder if Sununu’s fired now.
by: Dean Barker @ Sat Jul 28, 2007 at 14:55:02 PM CDT

An important footnote, upon further thought: (0.00 / 0) I see no reason why a user should disclose previous paid campaign work, only current, so if indeed you had such a role with CSP I don’t see how what we have outlined in our Getting Started page obliges you in any way to disclose.

Wonder if Sununu’s fired now.
by: Dean Barker @ Sat Jul 28, 2007 at 15:03:24 PM CDT

The original post by MisSell sniffs for dissing of Hodes blogger/volunteers by a quoted NH Dem mover and shaker, who downplays Hodes’ Obama endorsement and lauds the more “influential” statewide “organization” of Carol Shea-Porter.

A few polite but edgy exchanges follow, then:

Enough! (0.00 / 0)
Guys, seriously cut it out. This entire thread should be removed. I am embarrassed.
by: Ray Buckley @ Sat Jul 28, 2007 at 17:27:41 PM CDT

Dunno if they do hidden comments over there, but apparently they don’t delete diaries.

The usual (de)pressing questions remain: whose nutroots are bigger and better buttered? (Links are tinyurls to Hodes election night photos.)

And may I say, the Blue Hampshire logo looks like the twilight stalking of a snowshoveler by a scarved and bundled Grim Reaper.

97. VAGreen - 28 July 2007

93. marisacat – 28 July 2007

“The real problem is the electoral system and that there is zero real (national) interest in changing it. With the Dem wins in 06 a lot of distress over just the voting systems (what a joke it all is) from the hodge podge ot issues of tampering, was tamped down. Forget issues of winner take all.”

If Bloomberg throws the 2008 election into the House of Representatives, we might see some changes! Remember, Perot got 19% in 1992 in spite of himself and the country seems even more discontent than it was back then.

98. marisacat - 28 July 2007

And this is deep, deep blue American dominated by liberal democrats.

welll but is it? It’s been a long time since I spent a lot of itme in NJ but like a lot of eastern seabord states there is a dark, malleable strain of what is called in elections circles, “white ethnics”.

Years of Lou Dobbs shaking the rabble up, hard core, ever hardening Catholic churches in some areas, etc. 9/11 and so on.

I don’t think we are so liberal here in SF, but one thing we may avoid is becoming a deputy for ICE, just thru the insistence on being a “sanctuary” city for immigrants … and that the city refuses to make issues of legal/illegal part of absolutely everything, such as the odd traffic stop, and so on….

99. marisacat - 28 July 2007

VAGreen

I agree, Bloomberg will put the Dems on the run. The reason I so want him to enter… LOL No intention of voting for any o fthem…
;)

100. Intermittent Bystander - 28 July 2007

MCat – didn’t the DU purge involve Bev Harris?

wellllllllll. We see who they all are…

Couple of blooo blogger photos in moderation.

101. marisacat - 28 July 2007

Just let two of Hair Club’s out of moderation, SORRY!

yes I heard McGreevy is a seminarian. I thought he did a snow job using his homosexuality. The real story was the Cipel scam. Which seemed a sting, day one.

LOL Good luck to them all.

102. Hair Club for Men - 28 July 2007

welll but is it? It’s been a long time since I spent a lot of itme in NJ but like a lot of eastern seabord states there is a dark, malleable strain of what is called in elections circles, “white ethnics”.

Oh yeah. There are “9/11 Terrorist Hunting Permits” on cars all over the place. There are more American flags and little virgin Mary statues than you can count.

Most of these people, however, voted for Democrats in 2006. The only places in New Jersey that really go Republican anymore are the rich WASP ones (like the towns around Morristown).

In other words, it’s a lot more complex than a lot of people think.

Interesting too, I can assume all the Ron Paul supporters in the anti-immigrant rally were anti-war and anti-Bush. There were a couple of extremely nasty speeches against Bush from the anti-immigrant protesters for not acting more quickly on 9/11 and for not “protecting the borders”.

So you’ve got the pro-immigrant protesters who were about 99% against the war in Iraq and the anti-immigrant protesters who (if the Ron Paul signs meant anything) were running about 50% against the war in Iraq.

Who supports that war anyway now outside of the oligarchy?

But this is the perfect wedge issue. It’s not about immigration at all. It’s about putting local cops under the federal government and activating “rapid response divisions” like the huge riot cop squad protecting the mayors little hate rally. It’s a trojan horse.

I’m actually suprised so many of those Ron Paul supporters (who are supposed to be libertarians) support increasing the power of the federal governmetn.

Kos banning discussion of Ron Paul was heavy handed and obnoxiou. But Paul’s supporters do not make a good impression in person. Judging by their appearance at that rally, they’re idiots AND racists.

103. marisacat - 28 July 2007

Sorry IB!

Think I got both out…

104. Tuston - 28 July 2007

While Morriston worries about all those pesky mestizos muddying their bloodlines, the migrants are dying at record rates in the hell the endure to find work:

Death toll mounts for border crossers
2 more bodies put area on grim, record-setting pace

By Brady McCombs
Arizona Daily Star
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 07.28.2007
advertisementThe discovery Thursday of the bodies of two illegal border crossers northwest of Tucson has added to a record-breaking year in Pima County for border deaths.
There were 152 illegal border crossers found dead in the county from Jan. 1 through July 25, a pace that is well ahead of 2006 and eclipses the record set in 2005, when there were 131 at this same time, said Dr. Bruce Parks, chief medical examiner at the Pima County Office of the Medical Examiner.
[…]

105. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 July 2007

So you’ve got the pro-immigrant protesters who were about 99% against the war in Iraq and the anti-immigrant protesters who (if the Ron Paul signs meant anything) were running about 50% against the war in Iraq. Hair Club

If they were for the war, they are not Ron Paul supporters … that IS his issue …. so anyone who supports the war and says they are a Ron Paul supporter is suspect.

There is also the smear that he is a racist …. I have seen nothing in anything he’s said or that I’ve read, which proves that charge. What he is, imo, is naive …. he believes race should not be an issue at all. I am suspicious of the groups supposedly supporting him, just as I am of those supposedly supporting Cindy Sheehan or whoever else is a threat to the ‘chosen ones’, iow those who are acceptable candidates.

I have friends in NJ, all of them are Repubs, although the younger generation (teens) seem to be turning into rabid Liberals .. oddly I think it’s because they are good people and taught their kids about right and wrong. Now, the kids can see what’s wrong with Bush et al, but they, the older generation, cannot …

I should say that Michael Moore has had a real effect on these teens … I don’t know where they are finding out about him, probably online. One of my friends asked me if I knew anything about him, ’cause she had thought he was a ‘bad’ guy. So, I told her I loved his movies and maybe she should check him out. I also told her her kid was brilliant! Lol! She was worried about him!

106. Tuston - 28 July 2007

Dude, I’m like so stoked. If I keep up my proclivity for pot and strong drink I might live to 120. That is if the skunk weed doesn’t make me skitso (LMAO!)

120-Year-Old Woman Claims Smoking Pot Everyday Is Her Secret To Long Life

December 4, 2006 11:42 p.m. EST

Komfie Manalo – All Headline News Correspondent
New Delhi, India (AHN) – A 120-year-old woman claims that smoking cannabis every day is her secret to long life.

Fulla Nayak, from India, says she reached the age of 120 by smoking pot and drinking strong palm win in her hut everyday.

She is living with her 92-year-old daughter and 72-year-old grandson.

Linky

107. Intermittent Bystander - 28 July 2007

Thanks, Marisacat.

Tuston – great links.

OT: A belated apology to Miss Devore for missing her response to my Happy Tax proposal a couple of days ago.

My point was that all sorts of psychoactive chemicals (many of them very helpful and/or appropriate, and some less so, or neither) are dispersed to wide swaths of the more comfortably situated American public, while others (the poor, uninsured, undiagnosed, untreated, etc.) make do with alcohol, pot, or what-have-you. (And far worse.) My admittedly fanciful notion was that those whose mental and emotional well-being are well tended, by professional care, might be taxed a penny here or there to pay for universal mental health coverage, as long as we’re hitting tobacco addicts, yet again, to cover the kiddies.

Absolutely no slur against any particular treatments intended.

108. Intermittent Bystander - 28 July 2007

Oh, and legalize herbs. How ridiculous.

109. Hair Club for Men - 28 July 2007

If they were for the war, they are not Ron Paul supporters … that IS his issue …. so anyone who supports the war and says they are a Ron Paul supporter is suspect.

About a third to half of the anti-immigrant protesters seemed to be Ron Paul supporters.

The rest seemed to be a mixture of the usual neocon astroturfed front groups who like to disrupt anti-war protests, Move America Forward types, Gather of Eagle type, Minutement, Stormfronters, National Vanguard types, the usual token black and hispanic uncle Toms and Aunt Jemimas.

So you had about maybe 50-75 percent of the anti-immigrant protesters who seemed to be pro war and maybe 25-50 percent who seemed to be anti-war.

But the Ron Paul supporters did not come off well. I don’t know if Paul himself is a racist or not but his supporters had absolutely no objections to participating in an event *in favor* of giving the federal government more power and no objections to standing next to Stormfronters and Aryan Brotherhood supporters.

I was mildy sympathetic to Paul before today. But this event was an eye opener.

110. Revisionist - 28 July 2007

I forget who is watching the debates.. But as you saw Gravel goes off.

In the world I live in a candadite calling out the rest of the candiates as liars and all bought by wall street would be news.

The media just acts like it never happened instead of asking him what his evidence is. They dont even really joke about him either. like he isnt there sreaming at the top of his lungs they’re frauds.

111. marisacat - 28 July 2007

hmmm I don’t have them at hand, but think both Madman and BHHM have linked to sites that indicate Ron Paul’s links to white supremacist groups.

There was a spread in the NYT mag, think it was last week. It is a genuine American coalition that supports Paul, with all sorts of anomalies.. soemthing he has built over the years.

Frankly I think anything could be in it…

He is also hard core, offensive pro life, anti abortion. That brings all sorts out of the wood work to join with you.

112. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 July 2007

Tuston, that is so sad … even worse is the hatred that is being taught and the lack of sympathy there is for them. I was going to say how bad can it be in their home coungries that they are willing to risk their lives to get here …. but it’s pretty bad and this country doesn’t seem interested in helping to improve conditions ….

Hair mentioned that the blogs had not reported on the Oaxaca uprising. I think there was information on this and other blogs about it. Nothing has changed much since a year ago ..

State Repression Continues Unabated More than One Year into Oaxaca Uprising

Tensions remain high in Oaxaca, Mexico more than a year after the state’s bloody crackdown on striking school teachers led to a popular uprising against Governor Ulises Ruiz. This week the Oaxacan state began staging its official celebration of Guelaguetza, the most important indigenous folk festival in Oaxaca. Since last year this festival has become a flashpoint of the struggle between popular movements and the state. Last month the teacher’s union and APPO, the popular assembly of the people’s of Oaxaca, voted to reclaim the event from corporate and state control. They planned to hold a free celebration early last week as an alternative to the official Coca-Cola sponsored event aimed at tourists.

Thousands of people marched down the streets last Monday demanding the resignation of the deeply unpopular state governor. Governor Ruiz is widely held responsible for leaving the violent deaths of some 25 protestors last year unpunished. In response to last week’s gathering the governor sent in hundreds of heavily armed state police to prevent the popular celebration from taking place. The police attacked the crowds and reports indicate that at least 70 people were arrested and 40 were seriously wounded. Emeterio Cruz Vasquez, a 46 year old plumber and spouse of a striking teacher, died from his wounds. Human Rights Watch urged Oaxacan state officials to investigate allegations of excessive police violence against the demonstraters

Amy Goodman interviews a film-maker and Gustavo Esteva … if we had a decent administration, they could intervene here and urge the Federal Government to take action, but this kind of brutality and injustice is what we condone now.

GUSTAVO ESTEVA: Well, basically, my feeling is that the mood of the people today is that we are hoping for the best, but we are preparing for the worst, because the last Monday the people gave magnificent, magnificent signs of courage and restraint, and at the same time we got signs of incompetence, irresponsibility and a very dangerous attitude in the state and the president government.

What we are seeing basically is that they have been training the police, both of the municipal, the state and the federal police, in an exercise of clear impunity. This was very clear, very open in the repression fifteen days ago in July 16, when they were very vicious in the open repression of the people, even with journalists there, in front of journalists that were also beaten, and telling them, “You can do whatever you want. You can take photos. You can do whatever they want.”

113. Revisionist - 28 July 2007

109 – his campaign is completely de centralized. like the people in the descarating the flag story this week. they are paul supporters. you can see part of an official sign in the photos.

114. marisacat - 28 July 2007

Yes I have posted about Oaxaca, both links, articles and photos from the uprisings…

Back some months ago…

115. Intermittent Bystander - 28 July 2007

Psychoactively, 2008 is a wide-open field.

Revisionist at #110 – Excellent point.

I think the two phenomena are related.

116. Tuston - 28 July 2007

got to get to bed, but I think SB’s post merits an addendum:

The flames jetting 300 meters into the night sky and the black smoke billowing over the fertile flatlands of central Mexico’s Bajio were not a good omen. According to a spokesperson for the national oil monopoly PEMEX, the two explosions that rocked installations in Guanajuato and Queretero states July 5th and 10th were caused by a sudden drop in pressure in two natural gas pipelines due to “pinchazos” or illicit perforations in the ducts to siphon off fuel.

The explosions, which shredded aging, poorly-maintained infrastructure underscored the urgent need for private investment in the nationalized enterprise argued PEMEX director Jesus Heroles Jr., mimicking President Felipe Calderon’s take on the subject. Calderon, who was elected a year ago in a fraud-marred vote taking, has pledged to privatize PEMEX.

[…]

On July 11th, newspapers in Mexico City began receiving a series of communiqués under the rubric of the “Military Zone Command of the Popular Revolutionary Army and State Committee of the Party of the Popular Democratic Revolution” claiming credit for blowing out two 36 inch natural gas pipelines in Guanajuato (July 5th) and a key valve house in Coroneo Queretero (July 10th) that shut down gas distribution to millions in central Mexico.

The Popular Revolutionary Army or EPR for its initials in Spanish, a long dormant guerrilla whose home base is usually in the conflictive states of Oaxaca and Guerrero, explained that the two explosions had been “surgical strikes against the oligarchy” and signaled the initiation of a “national campaign of harassment” that would continued until two disappeared EPR leaders are presented by the Calderon government “with life.”

Counterpunch

On that cheery note, I’m off to bed…

117. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 July 2007

Yes, you did post about it, Marisacat. In fact most of the posts here are about news that is not covered in the media, and definitely not on Daily Kos (unless by an individual diarist) or the rest of the bbbs.

Saw that info aboutSkinner repeating verbatim the DK ban on Cindy discussing her candidacy. I’ve seen the operatives in threads there also, but the membership there fights back pretty hard … DU also tried to push certain issues off the board, like questions about 9/11, Election Fraud etc. but got such a bad reaction they kept forums for them open. I have seen Armando, eg criticize DU. And Kos removed it from that blogroll – but I see little difference in the management. They do not have the rating system and troll kops so that keeps down the kind of abuse there is on DK.

DU started in 2000 after the election. They have some members who have done a lot of great work on election fraud etc. and still managed to stay there … I don’t know if they started out being controlled by what the party wants. I know Elizabeth Edwards, John Conyers, Kerry’s son and others were posting there fairly regularly. Don’t know if they still do … Cindy also … but she’s no longer welcome on those left blog … it really is time for a real liberal movement …. and their thuggish behavior online might just cause it to happen ….

118. Hair Club for Men - 28 July 2007

109 – his campaign is completely de centralized. like the people in the descarating the flag story this week. they are paul supporters. you can see part of an official sign in the photos.

Ron Paul is so good on the Tucker Carlson show arguing for ending the occupation of Iraq and it was so great to see him make Giuliani go ballastic that it’s almost possible to think about voting for him.

Then you look at stuff like this.

119. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

The new brown poodle speaks:

Gordon Brown last night sought to reassure the US that he has no desire to distance himself from President George Bush, insisting that ties between the UK and America were due to get “stronger” while none of the world’s major problems could be solved without US intervention. [and just how is that working out so far, Brown? -catnip]
[…]

He said the relationship between Britain and the US was “founded on our common values of liberty, opportunity and the dignity of the individual”. [and the fundamental desire to build vast empires that end up causing the worst human rights abuses. -catnip]

120. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

Justin Raimondo takes on the 101st Fighting Keyboardist chickenhawks: Militarism – America’s State Religion

121. marisacat - 28 July 2007

It ws funny, all the twits, like Jonah Goldberg and so on, just could not buy that the anonymous soldier writing in the New Republic was real.

122. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

That’s CSI: Blogosphere™ aka The Fraud Squad or you. There will be no veering form the accepted propaganda! That’s treasonous.

Hmmm…now why does that sound familiar…?

123. jam.fuse - 28 July 2007

They took a clean-cut kid
And they made a killer out of him
That’s what they did

— Bob Dylan

124. D. Throat - 28 July 2007

if environmentalists, peace activists and feminists (1.43 / 7)
choose to support Republicans like Olympia Snowe and Lincoln Chafee just because provide meaningless protest votes, they deserve every piece of scorn they get.

If peace activists can’t get their act together enough to put a protest march together without the help of A.N.S.W.E.R. coalition, the deserve to be ignored.

If Code Pink types don’t have the sense to know that distracting from hearings with Valerie Plame and John Conyers hurts the cause rather than helps it, they deserve rebuke.

If old school feminists can’t get that the new feminism has appropriated sexiness as a new form of empowerment, and is so behind the times that it doesn’t understand the irony inherent in a modern Maryanne and Ginger pie fight and would rather deny ad revenue to a major progressive blog than even be forced to look at the ad, there’s not much help for them.

It has nothing to do with right-of-center Reaganite views–it has to do with different tactics.

Support a Republican over a Democrat, and I don’t care what your views are, you ain’t getting my support. Deal with the ANSWER coalition, and I don’t care what your views are, you ain’t getting my support. Disrespect Conyers and Feingold, I don’t care what your views are, you ain’t getting my support.

That’s not right-of-center–that’s just not being stupid.
by: thereisnospoon @ Sat Jul 28, 2007 at 20:54:50 PM CDT

..

125. D. Throat - 28 July 2007

spam

126. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

spam

No thanks. I’m trying to cut down.

127. brinn - 28 July 2007

I’ve asked a coupla times here, but am curious because I’m re-reading it — anyone read/heard of/is reading America 2014: An Orwellian Tale???

I’m not trying to get people to buy it necessarily, but I like to talk about books with people who have read them/are reading them…

no big deal, just wondering

128. D. Throat - 28 July 2007

just one tiny sliver..

129. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

with broccoli?

130. D. Throat - 28 July 2007

Would you… could you
In a box?

Would you… could you
With a fox?

131. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

Which, of course, reminds me of one of my fave SNL skits.

132. liberalcatnip - 28 July 2007

Would you…could you
With some lox?

133. D. Throat - 29 July 2007

Do people still eat Spam???

134. D. Throat - 29 July 2007

You know now I can not get that damn song outta my head…

She’s choppin broccoli ….She’s choppin broccoli …She’s choppin broccoli

135. liberalcatnip - 29 July 2007

Do people still eat Spam???

Not me but I did check out the price last week: $4 something for a can – bloody expensive!

I love that broccoli song. :)

136. liberalcatnip - 29 July 2007

Greg Palast and truthout in a rec’d diary?? Obviously, the minion revolution is on.

137. D. Throat - 29 July 2007

The reason why the DK operatives are being silent about voting fraud is because once again the Democrats are aiding and abetting the theft.

This definitely will NOT be a topic of discussion at YK… throw more pillows at Bill-O.

July 20, 2007
Overhaul Plan for Vote System Will Be Delayed
By CHRISTOPHER DREW

Democratic leaders in the House and Senate are slowing their drive to revamp the nation’s voting systems, aides said yesterday.

Under pressure from state and local officials, as well as from lobbyists for the disabled, House leaders now advocate putting off the most sweeping changes until 2012, four years later than planned.

Overhauling voting systems before next year’s presidential election had once been a top Democratic priority, primarily to allow greater accountability and be certain that all votes registered on computerized touch-screen systems were counted. But state and local elections officials told Congress they could not make the changes in time for the balloting in November 2008, particularly in light of the extra workload involved in preparing for next year’s much-earlier presidential primary season.

Confronted by similar concerns, Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California and the chairwoman of the Senate Rules Committee, said she had already decided against seeking any major changes in voting equipment before 2010.

“My sense is there’s no way to get this thing in place by the election of 2008,” Ms. Feinstein said. “Without adequate time, we could cause real problems in the election.”

Senate Democrats say that stretching out the timetable could increase their chances to win enough Republican support to put the changes into law.

House Democratic officials say they are now working on compromise legislation that could allow hundreds of counties in 20 states to simply add tiny, cash-register-style printers to their touch-screen machines for the 2008 and 2010 elections, while waiting for manufacturers to develop better technology by 2012.

House officials said the compromise would ensure that all voting machines nationwide would have some kind of paper trail in 2008 through which voters could verify that their ballots were properly recorded and that could be used in recounts. Under the plan, New York, which has delayed replacing its old lever machines, would be the only state that would have to change its entire voting system by November 2008.

But critics say that while billions have been spent to improve voting since the disputed presidential election in 2000, the compromise would leave a patchwork and somewhat jury-rigged system that would still be vulnerable to tampering or computer malfunctions in next year’s elections. Many experts have criticized the add-on printers, which use thin rolls of relatively fragile paper, as too prone to paper jams and smearing to ensure that every vote is counted.

The proposed legislation is the second effort by Congress to fix the nation’s voting system since the bitter fights over hanging punch-card chads in Florida. Under the Help America Vote Act, passed in 2002, the federal government has spent more than $3 billion to help states and counties modernize their voting systems, installing thousands of touch-screen and other machines. But since then, growing concerns about the reliability and the security of some of the machines had led to widespread calls for another overhaul.

As a result, the proposed compromise is a blow to some computer scientists and other activists, who would like to get rid of the touch-screen machines used by nearly 40 percent of American voters. They had hoped that a tighter deadline would force states and localities to quickly shift from touch-screens to optical-scan systems, in which ballots are marked by the voters themselves rather than being generated by computers.

But state and local election officials, weary from all the changes they had already made, argued that it is already too late to make such significant changes without creating chaos next year. Advocates for the blind and the disabled also threatened to oppose the bill if it went too far in discouraging the use of touch-screen machines before the optical scanners were made easier for them to use. And House officials — led by the majority leader, Representative Steny H. Hoyer, Democrat of Maryland, who is trying to broker the deal — said they wanted to avoid another buying spree if better equipment might be available later.

House aides said that Mr. Hoyer, who has long taken a lead on voting and disability-rights issues, and Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California do not want to undercut any of the gains that the disabled had made in voting without assistance. They also said that the compromise would achieve the Democrats’ main goal — ensuring that there would be a paper back-up for each vote cast in November 2008 — while allowing more time to move to systems with more durable ballots.

138. D. Throat - 29 July 2007

spammed again

139. D. Throat - 29 July 2007

This will make more sense when my other post get out of hock.

take it up with the new feminists, not me (0.00 / 0)
The new feminist doesn’t eschew the use of the word “girl”–instead, she revels in it, much like Oprah. The new feminist doesn’t decry the display and even occasional objectification of the female body–instead, she uses it to tie men in strings and get what she wants.

If you’ve got a problem with that, which obviously you do and have a lot of energy about it, take it up with them, not with me.

You’re the one who thinks a site with a majority of frontpagers who are female has a fratboy mentality. That says a lot more about you than it does about me.

Finally, I don’t take any shit from boomers just because of your age. It was boomers who, having burned their bras and draft cards and broken all the sexual mores when their loins were raging, voted in Reagan when it came time to pay their taxes, and moralist Republicans when it came time to raise their own children. My generation is more progressive than ever yours was, and will clean up the mess your overreaches left behind.
by: thereisnospoon @ Sun Jul 29, 2007 at 01:40:17 AM CDT

140. D. Throat - 29 July 2007

Let’s try again… this come before that last post

if environmentalists, peace activists and feminists (1.33 / 9)
choose to support Republicans like Olympia Snowe and Lincoln Chafee just because provide meaningless protest votes, they deserve every piece of scorn they get.

If peace activists can’t get their act together enough to put a protest march together without the help of A.N.S.W.E.R. coalition, the deserve to be ignored.

If Code Pink types don’t have the sense to know that distracting from hearings with Valerie Plame and John Conyers hurts the cause rather than helps it, they deserve rebuke.

If old school feminists can’t get that the new feminism has appropriated sexiness as a new form of empowerment, and is so behind the times that it doesn’t understand the irony inherent in a modern Maryanne and Ginger pie fight and would rather deny ad revenue to a major progressive blog than even be forced to look at the ad, there’s not much help for them.

It has nothing to do with right-of-center Reaganite views–it has to do with different tactics.

Support a Republican over a Democrat, and I don’t care what your views are, you ain’t getting my support. Deal with the ANSWER coalition, and I don’t care what your views are, you ain’t getting my support. Disrespect Conyers and Feingold, I don’t care what your views are, you ain’t getting my support.

That’s not right-of-center–that’s just not being stupid.
by: thereisnospoon @ Sat Jul 28, 2007 at 20:54:50 PM CDT

141. D. Throat - 29 July 2007

Remember this is Stoller’s consulting business partner….

142. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 July 2007

Thereisnospine is so old-fashioned! I’m laughing my ass off! He’s adapted Rush Limbaugh Feminism! He’s exactly what he says he is not. A Reagon back-to-the-fifties-with-women ignorant Male moron who has not clue what he’s talking about, but is lashing out because YOUNG women today reject the OLD Reaganite Republican notion that women should be Objects for litlle shits like him to oogle at and nothing more …… if I thought he was the norm, I would worry, but DK and the BBBS notion of women’s place in the world is so marginalized it is the reason why they have so few REAL women who have both the ability to be sexy AND intelligent, on that board.

DK is not friendly to minorities of any kind including women. It IS what it is and Thereisnospine just verifies each time he goes on a rampage …. he makes it worse. At least Armando had the intelligence to play down what it was – I hope Spineless keeps talking – the more the reveal themselves the more disgusted people are by them, on EVERY issue.

Spineless IS a Republican, Republican lite. He better get out and start talking TO women, nott FOR them ’cause the man doesn’t have a clue

143. JJB - 29 July 2007

Hair Club, no. 102,

I’m actually [surprised] so many of those Ron Paul supporters (who are supposed to be libertarians) support increasing the power of the federal [government].

Scratch a “libertarian” and you’ll find a fascist of extremely bigoted temperament who doesn’t want to have to pay taxes, or get prosecuted for indulging in his/her illegal habits. It’s really a meaningless label, even more so than “progressive.” They have no problem with the permanent war machine and national security state so long as its activities are directed against the multitudes of non-Caucasians within and without US borders.

144. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007

Among “Most Viewed News Stories” at Yahoo this morning:
Sex suit could be problem for Bloomberg (AP).

Before his election as mayor in 2001, Bloomberg was the target of a sexual harassment suit by a female executive who accused him of making repeated raunchy sexual comments while he was chief executive of his financial company, Bloomberg LP.
Bloomberg denied the accusations. Both sides were barred from commenting because of confidentiality agreements.

But the suit and other potential embarrassments resulting from Bloomberg’s tendency to speak his mind are largely unknown to the rest of the country and are certain to be re-examined if the billionaire media mogul undertakes a third-party, self-financed presidential campaign for 2008.

Just in case anyone thought Bloomberg’s biggest campaign challenge would be vocal coaching for nasal tone. (YouTube clip – Mayor Mike addressing Independents on disenfranchisement .)

145. JJB - 29 July 2007

Talk about twisted logic,

It was boomers who, having burned their bras and draft cards and broken all the sexual mores when their loins were raging, voted in Reagan when it came time to pay their taxes, and moralist Republicans when it came time to raise their own children. My generation is more progressive than ever yours was, and will clean up the mess your overreaches left behind.

IOW, I am more “progressive” than you ever were because I’m less “progressive” than you used to be. And I doubt very much that the 18-34 year-old vote put Reagan over the top in 1980, and certainly not that portion of it that had protested the war, started the feminist movement, etc. As much as I admire Jimmy Carter for his post-presidential career, he was a lousy president, one who pursued economic policies that fit right in with the GOP mainstream. He went out of his way to alienate the liberal base of the national Democratic party, and of course didn’t manage to appease conservative swing voters.

BTW, someone needs to inform these dingbats that it wasn’t baby boomers who did the Freedom Rides, started the student protest/feminist movements, etc. THEY WERE TOO YOUNG! By the time the country was tearing itself apart in 1968, the oldest baby boomers were only 22 years old. Most of us were still in secondary school., or younger.

Of course, anyone who’d use George Will/Rush Limbaugh style invective written up Woody Guthrie style (i.e., “if Pat McCarran’s for it, I’m a’gin it”) in service of so-called “progressivism” is being transparently disingenuous.

146. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007

Among “Most Viewed News Stories” at Yahoo this morning:

Sex suit could be problem for Bloomberg.

Before his election as mayor in 2001, Bloomberg was the target of a sexual harassment suit by a female executive who accused him of making repeated raunchy sexual comments while he was chief executive of his financial company, Bloomberg LP.
Bloomberg denied the accusations. Both sides were barred from commenting because of confidentiality agreements.

But the suit and other potential embarrassments resulting from Bloomberg’s tendency to speak his mind are largely unknown to the rest of the country and are certain to be re-examined if the billionaire media mogul undertakes a third-party, self-financed presidential campaign for 2008.

I’m sure spoonless, LV, and the rest of the boyz will back up Mayor Mike on that raunchy commentary thing. Hey, sexiness is a new form of empowerment. Right? Right?

147. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007

Bloomberg items gone to spam?

148. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007
149. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 July 2007

JJB, they are Reagan Republicans, posing as Progressives. Each time they go off on a rampage, they reveal themselves as such, as Spineless just did. The site is full of them.

His feeble attempt to use Rush-like insults, reveals him for what he is …. really, I prefer the Republicans at FR, I can argue with them honestly because they do not hide what they are. These Republicans in Progressive clothing are despicable on several counts, first the deception, and then their disdain for women which he clearly shows in that rant, and other minorities, their arrogant assumptions that they know what is best for all of us poor, ignorant schmucks out here.

I feel when arguing with them that I am fighting with people who are wearing masks …. but he just let the mask slip a little more with that stupid diatribe which didn’t even reach the standard of the worst ditto head. At least Rush pretends he respects women on his show lol!… Only on DK could these people get anywhere …

150. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007

JJB –
The peach trees they are loaded
The branches bending down
I’ll shake ‘em all day for some dollars, boyz,
As I go blogging ’round.

Sometimes the fruit gets raunchy
And falls on to the ground
There’s a hungry mouth for every peach
As I go bloggin’ ’round boyz
As I go bloggin’ ’round

151. marisacat - 29 July 2007

just let about 10 out of moderation or spam…

Mostly D Throat and Intermittant Bystander

SORRY!

Will go thru now and remove dupes… ;)

152. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007

Sorry for repeats – I thought the first attempts were swallowed entirely and had gone to the land beyond spam.

153. marisacat - 29 July 2007

IB

oh no worry… I just let them all out of mod or spam quickly so they get in the thread. Think there were only 3 dupes out of all that the filters caught…

I wish the filters were less of a mess, but they are not…

154. marisacat - 29 July 2007

If old school feminists can’t get that the new feminism has appropriated sexiness as a new form of empowerment, and is so behind the times that it doesn’t understand the irony inherent in a modern Maryanne and Ginger pie fight and would rather deny ad revenue to a major progressive blog than even be forced to look at the ad, there’s not much help for them.

———– thereisnobrain

This is such a total misread of the Pie event. MISREAD.

what a fucking idiot.

The other thing is that all thugs, taking a leaf iirc from DHinMI who was the first I saw to post this, purposely misstated Kos ad revenues. Over and over they said it was a 700.00 a week ad. I checked the rates at the time. Think that then it was around 2,500 a week for that ad.

They lie all day long. About small things and big things alike.

155. marisacat - 29 July 2007

New Thread

LINK

Now going to make cofee and check the cats over night effluvia. LOL did it hit the paper or not.

MTP just starting here… mama and obama, all the way… ;)

156. supervixen - 29 July 2007

Madman: everything that Mary Daly has written is excellent. Beyond God the Father focuses on the problems inherent in Christianity.

Daly is a former nun.

I quoted from her work here.

157. supervixen - 29 July 2007

thereisnospoon = fucking idiot shithead.

I think I’ll sign up again at MLW just so I can whack him.

158. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007

#139
one of the Adking lovers , ugh brothers— the Elder’s premise is correct re non plus Boomers ( Hell the initial premise of Koslandia was correct: Bush Sneaky Bad Man.)

Doesn’t make him Rousseau ,though, as a blogger/know-I-can-get-paid-somehow-doin-this guy.

JJB, you are so right about the movement’s most effective activists of the sixties all born before the war…Hellooo??!?!?!? Martin, Malcom, Cesar Chavez, Betty Friedan, all born before the war.

Thats just the tip: (not that the womens movement shows up on the radar let alone teh gayz)

http://www.now.org/history/founders.html

It’s like life started for them having seen their first Behind the Music,
or caught Woodstock on MTV.

Now they think THIS is activism. some guy named Jeremy or Jerome or Markos or Matt or whatever the fuck THIS guy’s name is trying to sell you something, a progressive “lifestyle” ….

http://cosmopolity.org/

LMAO – right before the projectile vomitting.
Blogging is fine but UFPJ, Cindy, Code Pink, World Can’t Wait, Answer, — this IS the anti war anti Bush movement. Whose borrowing whose credentials here??–The Activists or the Democratic Party and Markos 7 Associates shitty little self promoting business network?

159. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007

doh someone missed the close bold tag. Sorry

160. colleen - 29 July 2007

If old school feminists can’t get that the new feminism has appropriated sexiness as a new form of empowerment, and is so behind the times that it doesn’t understand the irony inherent in a modern Maryanne and Ginger pie fight and would rather deny ad revenue to a major progressive blog than even be forced to look at the ad, there’s not much help for them.

What a piece of work this little white boy is. He deliberately lies and mischaracterizes the entire ‘pie’ episode while simultaneously defining ‘new feminism’ into ‘anything that gets me hard’ and ‘Old Feminism’ into ‘anything that threatens my bloated sense of entitlement’. Considering the fact that this is the guy who was proclaiming a year ago that equality between the sexes was a defining characteristic of the “authoritarian left” perhaps he should join the Catholic church, republican party or start dating Elise.

161. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007

US Senator, during Senatate Confirmation
Hearing for SV as Secretary of State

Senator: Could you expound upon your written commentary that , and I quote- thereisnospoon equals fucking idiot shithead’.???Ma’am?

LOL

162. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007

Thanx mcat

163. supervixen - 29 July 2007

My soon-to-be-deleted comment:

you know nothing about feminism (0.00 / 0)

You are an ignoramus on the subject, and most other important subjects. That figures, since you’re a 20-something homeschooled white male.

You’re the one who thinks a site with a majority of frontpagers who are female has a fratboy mentality. That says a lot more about you than it does about me.

Um. Here’s a free clue: Fratboys LIKE women. As long as they’re giving out blowjobs.

by: HunterHawk @ Sun Jul 29, 2007 at 08:30:33 AM PDT

164. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007

Careful now, supervixen . . . you’ll be messing with a Qualitative Research Consultant!

Don’t forget to display or objectify some female body parts to tie the man in strings and get what you want! Oprah be with you!

165. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007

160 colleen hey, btw

I didn’t go wading in orange excreta today the stool samples are bad enough, but I found this spoonful of decomposure interesting:

‘and would rather deny ad revenue to a major progressive blog’

to spoon: Buck up man! there’s plenty of jobs for philosophy grads!

166. supervixen - 29 July 2007

BHHM: Could you expound upon your written commentary

No.

That’s the one thing I admire about Armando: his pithiness.

Omit needless words.

167. supervixen - 29 July 2007

colleen: simultaneously defining ‘new feminism’ into ‘anything that gets me hard’ and ‘Old Feminism’ into ‘anything that threatens my bloated sense of entitlement’.

ROTFL!

168. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007

Well I’m screwed then.

169. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007

thanks for the link, vixen.

Brinn, I haven’t read that book, or heard of it before you mentioned it. I might have to check it out.

170. supervixen - 29 July 2007

A thought: Washington, whatever his political incorrectnesses, was probably a better liberal and a better feminist than thereisnospoon and the rest of the DKos Fratboyz and Little Sisterz.

171. colleen - 29 July 2007

‘and would rather deny ad revenue to a major progressive blog’

Who stupid would a woman have to be to fuck this guy?


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