Sunday Thread … ;)

Sunday Thread … ;) 29 July 2007

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.
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La Louche for Sunday Benediction...

I am off to make coffee — meaning if commens fall to moderation or spam a bit of delay…

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1. marisacat - 29 July 2007: anyone else amused that with Edwards running a solid 3/4, a Black Northerner with a big big city machine behind him, and other splits in the party behind him (imo) and Hillary the standard bearer for the Clintonite legacy — let’s not kid ourselves, I even caught Bubba saying “being president would not be my full time job” (a dribble from a Malawi interview), I would never vote for a mom n pop WH, won’t be doing it —

But notice how we don’t hear what we heard for years, the candidate has to be a white male southerner (of course, we have Bubba mit wif running).

What a skrewed mess we have going on…

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2. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 July 2007: I’m sure spoonless, LV, and the rest of the boyz will back up Mayor Mike on that raunchy commentary thing. Hey, sexiness is a new form of empowerment. Right? Right?

And O’Reilly also. After all O’Reilly and Rush do claim that when men end up in situations like O’Reilly’s it’s because women ‘entrapped’ them in order to ‘get something’! What a clown he is to confirm the very claims made by the right.

As a woman, and no, NOT a boomer or ‘old-time feminist’ either, just a woman and a human being, I abhor what he promotes, no matter who is doing it. Using people for personal gain. What a progressive attitude that is! This is the ‘new feminism according to him? Well, count me out! And I feel I can speak for the women I know, both young and old, who would not condone such cynical and dishonest tactics. He has not only insulted women, implying that young women are all as dishonest as his friends at DK, he has also insulted men.

Someone needs to send those posts to the guy who is running for Congress from DK …. isn’t spineless working for him in some capacity? He just thrashed environmentalists, women, men and peace activists in one stupid, moronic and childish rant.

I could see this being brought up to discredit the poor guy. He should be asked if he shares Spineless’s opinions of women, (dishonest) men, (stupid), environmentalists and peace activists (commies?)

If he condones women using men this way, or agrees with Spineless re environmentalists and activists, he needs to say so now … he seems like a decent guy, but his choices of people to help with his campaign, are a complete turn-off to me ….. Major Dumby and Spineless …. not very smart chocies. I think they will come back to haunt him especially with Spineless running around the internet losing votes for him like that … how stupid can you get! Who did he not lie about in that rant and turn off?

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3. supervixen - 29 July 2007: response to a comment from the previous thread: Sorry, MCat, but I love Geo. Washington. He was a no-bullshit guy, and a good Deist, strict on the matter of religious freedom.

I like this:

Dr. Rush told me (he had it from Asa Green) that when the clergy addressed General Washington, on his departure from the government, it was observed in their consultation that he had never, on any occasion, said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion, and they thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length to disclose publicly whether he was a Christian or not. However, he observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article of their address particularly, except that, which he passed over without notice.”
– Thomas Jefferson, quoted from Jefferson’s Works, Vol. iv., p. 572.

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4. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007: Number crunching the War on Terra, courtesy of Reuters:

Pakistan says U.S. aid bill casts shadow on relations

The legislation “contains references and provisions that cast a shadow on the existing cooperation between Pakistan and (the) United States,” foreign ministry spokeswoman Aslam said in her statement.

“The bill is disappointing from Pakistan’s point of view.”

Pakistan this year is receiving about $700 million in U.S. economic and military assistance and in 2008 is expected to receive more than $800 million.

Israel voices satisfaction over U.S. aid increase

JERUSALEM (Reuters) – Prime Minister Ehud Olmert voiced satisfaction on Sunday over Washington’s intention to offset a package of arms sales to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states with increased military aid for Israel.

He said he and U.S. President George W. Bush, in talks at the White House last month, agreed Israel would receive $30 billion in U.S. military aid over the next decade, averaging $3 billion a year.

“This is an increase of 25 percent for the military aid to Israel from the United States. I think this is a significant and important improvement of the defense aid to Israel,” Olmert told reporters.

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5. D. Throat - 29 July 2007: e new feminism has appropriated sexiness as a new form of empowerment

How much you wanna bet Thereisnoclue…. would run away and cry at these sexually empowered women

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6. D. Throat - 29 July 2007: The new feminist doesn’t decry the display and even occasional objectification of the female body–instead, she uses it to tie men in strings and get what she wants.

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7. marisacat - 29 July 2007: SV

Oh I love Geo Washington as well. ESP on religion. Most especially on religion. He jsut ws neither Alexander Hamilton, nor Madison is all. And I truly love Mt Vernon. They seem to be making it into a near religious location, which is sad. I am glad I saw some locations before the advent of the Great Republican Historians bonded with the Reaganite and Clintonite remakes of the country.

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8. supervixen - 29 July 2007: DT: oh yeah, you won’t find the DKos guys at any protest that involves displaying their naked dicks. Too tiny.

Ewan McGregor they are not.

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9. colleen - 29 July 2007: The new feminist doesn’t decry the display and even occasional objectification of the female body–instead, she uses it to tie men in strings and get what she wants.

Well, I guess we now know the proper place for unmarried women in the New Democratic party.

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10. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: thereisnobrain is what results when you remove broad based liberal arts from higher education and turn it into a jobs-training factory.

what a fucking idiot.

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11. marisacat - 29 July 2007: Well, I guess we now know the proper place for unmarried women in the New Democratic party.
— colleen

LOL it’s a service job.

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12. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: AND George was a hemp farmer and an innovative distiller of whiskey and beer lover.

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13. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007: colleen – maybe spoonless can lobby his brother to get this “new feminism” directive included in the California party platform.

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14. D. Throat - 29 July 2007: Isn’t this the same home schooled fundie freak who wrote in the “Feminismjisms” diary of how his father is such a misogynistics asshole who taught the brothers that women were less than shit… meanwhile, the father sat on his lazy ass at home “teaching” the boyz while the mother went out to work to support the entire family.

Out of all of the tens of thousands of commentators who have passed thru DK… you gotta wonder how shit like this floated to the top. I mean what was so special about this cretin that Bowers just had to have him as his consulting partner…

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15. supervixen - 29 July 2007: Madman: thereisnobrain is what results when you remove broad based liberal arts from higher education and turn it into a jobs-training factory.

Well, sorry to say, this is what results when feminism is relegated to the “women’s studies” pomo circle-jerk ghetto chockfull of inane babble about “gender constructs” and boobs and clothes etc., instead of taking its rightful place in the history of Enlightenment philosophy.

Not that thereisnobrain knows anything about Enlightenment philosophy.

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16. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 July 2007: D. Throat #6 – Bill O’Reilly and Thereisnoclue are on the same page regarding the ‘New Feminism, or old Feminism or any kind of Feminism’!

On March 23, 2004, O’Reilly interviewed Linda Mills, author of the book “Insult to Injury: Rethinking Our Responses to Intimate Abuse.” O’Reilly previewed the segment this way: “In a moment, a professor of social work says women may bear some responsibility for sexual harassment.” During the interview, O’Reilly explained his take on the law this way:

“Look, I think that the sexual harassment thing is used as a club, as I said, by many women, all right. It’s something they have against men, a threat to keep men at bay in a very competitive marketplace…. You know, there are women who manipulate themselves and use their sexuality to get ahead, all right. And then these women will turn around and file a sexual harassment…. But how do you prove it? It’s very difficult to prove it.”

O’Reilly continued: “Well, it’s changed my life. I’ll tell you, when I was a thug coming up, I mean I would say almost anything around women, and now I don’t say anything, you know, that could be remotely taken– you know, because, obviously, I’m a big target, and any kind of a thing like that stigmatizes you, whether you’re guilty or not, doesn’t it? So it’s — women — that’s a big power source for them, and I think some women use it ruthlessly.”

Yep, thereisnoclue actually goes further than O’Reilly who seems to accuse only SOME women of ‘using their sexuality’ to gain power or whatever. Spoonless claims the entire New Liberal Feminist Movement does what O’Reilly tried to claim and which was denied by, well the ‘new feminist’ movement … so which is it, Clueless? Are women responsible for sexual harassment as O’Reilly claims? Seems YOU think so and that worse, it is part of the ‘movement’.

Someone send Clueless over to O’Reilly as a consultant. They are in agreement on quite a few serious issues related to women ….

*************

What’s really funny is Spineless going to MLW looking for support for DK. He tries to brush aside the fact that if you’re banned from DK your ‘free speech’ has already been taken away by DK while so far, O’Reilly has made no such attempt against the smaller blogs. He thinks we should all just forget the silencing of so many progressives and jump on the bandwagon to keep DK in a position where it can continue to silence progressives.

He really is not a very bright man ….. in his need to attack liberals, and especially liberal WOMEN, he gives aid and comfort to the O’Reillys of the world, not to mention ammunition, were Daily Kos’ ‘new feminism’ to be accepted. There will be no validity to legitimate claims made by women who are genuinely harrassed and the tables will turn and those very women will be the ones charged. A Wingnut’s dream come true, and presented to them by the brainthrust of the BBBs.

Someone stop them, please! Bill? I can’t believe I’m close to rooting for BOR! Thanks again to the BBBs and their obnoxious, hateful (and that was a hateful rant) little pos claiming to speak for the rest of us! They DO NOT!

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17. D. Throat - 29 July 2007: He really is not a very bright man …..

A perfect specimen of bigoted based homeschooling.

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18. supervixen - 29 July 2007: 9, colleen: unmarried? Who says they have to be unmarried? The only requirement is a vagina and/or a mouth.

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19. marisacat - 29 July 2007: ugh.

I have been watching the headlines for a couple weeks on this, but I am far away…

Any NYers, ex-NYers, others have a thought on this… ??? SB, lucid, jam.fuse, wilfred, Madman, SV, ms xeno….others.. if NYCO is around (will stop by her blog too and see what she has up)…

NYT apology from Spitzer

NY Daily News recap. (it was handy, not endorsing the take):

New York’s Democratic governor, who in two past interviews with me said he had learned things from F.D.R., Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton, was on top of the world just a week ago. He had squashed dissent in his own party and all that stood between him and one-man rule of the Empire State was the weakened Republican leader of the state Senate.

But as Week 2 of the “Eliot Mess” begins, Spitzer is in a free fall. The definition of “scarce” in Albany is anybody of either party who believes the governor’s claim he had nothing to do with the dirty tricks plot his office concocted against Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno. The public is similarly skeptical. Up to 80% of voters want Spitzer to testify under oath about what he knew, with 50% saying they don’t believe he has been honest, according to a Marist Institute poll.

The astonishing collapse is one of the fastest falls from political grace in memory. And Spitzer has only himself to blame.

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20. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007: Pretzel …windpipe…13…Bystander. LOL

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21. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007: SB – Apparently thereisnospoon and clammyc are giving MSOC, Digby, and BTD radio play.

DT at #14 – Naked ambition?

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22. D. Throat - 29 July 2007: Oh it was written by the other brother “Daryl”

Growing up in my household, the word “feminist” was kind of a dirty word. My dad was a patriarch of sorts, a traditionalist. When I was growing up, there was strict separation of household duties: cooking and laundry, for instance, was entirely women’s work.

In addition to the strict division of labor, however, there was also a certain quality of superiority with regard to gender relations. It was the man’s job to do most of the thinking and planning and have say in most decisions, and the woman’s job to do a substantial amount of the work involved in executing those decisions.

Now, I was homeschooled–and one of the primary areas in which the traditional gender stereotypes was reversed was in the area of education. My dad stayed home and taught me and my brother, while my mom worked. This made me consciously aware of what Arlie Hochschild calls “the second shift”: my mom had to work during the day, but also had to come home and make dinner, do laundry if necessary…you get the idea.

And in addition to that, the family tended to operate on principles that could be considered a little patriarchal. Ultimate authority for most decisions rested with my dad, and at least while I was growing up, his attitude towards women in general regarding their emotional strength, intelligence and leadership capabilities was often condescending. One of my dad’s main outlooks on the issue was that the feminist movement only been allowed to start because the rise of state power substituted for the function that men used to play in families and caused women not to be as dependent on men as they used to be–something he wasn’t all that happy about.

A good friend of mine used to say… “Now you now where fucked up people come from”.…

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23. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: well, I agree with that, sv. Groups of people ghettoizing themselves DOESN’T move us toward inclusion. History classes should include everyone. Hell, I was a little libertarian suburban kid when I took Philosophy 101 and was introduced by my female professor to The Second Sex when we got to Existentialism. Her work was more powerful BECAUSE it was read in the context of all of the rest of the overwhelmingly male philosophy we were reading. It opened my eyes (and boy we had great discussions about that book in comparison with the terrible misogyny in Sarte and Nietzsche). History, philosophy … THE HUMANITIES … should be unified and include all the width and breadth of human experience and perspective.

To separate is to make oneself a target. I understand why women’s studies and black studies and all the rest were developed, but I think setting them up that way instead of fighting to make the humanities more inclusive played into oppression’s hands.

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24. Revisionist - 29 July 2007: y’all should catch Mad Men on AMC. Its all about 1959 America. Everyone smokes every 5 minutes and the women know their place. One funny part is the obvious queen who joins in all poontang jokes and sexual harrasment. Great scene with the new secretary going to the gyno for “the pill” so she can get ahead in Manhatten and getting a lecture on not trying to get her money’s worth out of them. I honestly thought the dr was going to ash in her vagina.

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25. supervixen - 29 July 2007: DThroat: THANK YOU! I took the liberty of posting your comment at MLW. I await the hilarity of thereisnospoon’s response.

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26. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: I can’t remember who posted the link, but thanks for the Raimondo link on militarism.

Ugh, watching Sen. Hatch falling all over himself in praise for Torquemada Gonzales (and watching Chuck Schumer get steamrolled by him). So fucking sick of how utterly debased the debate is in this country.

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27. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007: Marisacat at #19 – The Albany Times-Union’s blog Capitol Confidential is handy for NYS politics. And here’s Newsday, with Answers spark more questions.

Don’t think the dust has settled yet, really. But Elliott’s definitely losing some of his squeaky-clean-Ness in the mess.

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28. supervixen - 29 July 2007: 24, Revisionist: I haven’t seen Mad Men but will check it out. One of the things that disappointed me about the movie version of Harriet the Spy is that they updated the story to the present era and placed it in some kind of bland-looking town instead of 1950s NYC. The fact that Harriet’s dad is a highly-paid “Ad Man” is a crucial element of the story. Particularly since her friend Sport’s dad is a “starving writer” who is trying to sell his novel.

All kinds of interesting stuff happening in that book.

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29. supervixen - 29 July 2007: Mcat: re, Spitzer, I have no idea. NYC politics have always been, shall we say, baroque.

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30. marisacat - 29 July 2007: IB

Thanks for those links… checking out the Times Union blog right now…

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31. Revisionist - 29 July 2007: #27 — its a very “smart” series. it opens with the main character having to come up with a new Lucky Strike campaign after Readers Digest says they will kill you. Looks like the agency will also be working on Dick Nixon’s campaign (because P&G like Dick Nixon. DO you have a problem with Dick Nixon?).

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32. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007: When I think of my WWII GI Bill Dad [RIP 25+ years now] who was quite adept at “throwing a load of wash in” or “coming up with something to stick to your ribs” I just smile. It makes we wonder though what part of New Whitebreadville such home school weirdo’s came from. And directives to “help out” were just that, not “help out Mom.”

So now I know from DT’s # 22. Astounding insight into a fucked up mind…..
there was strict separation of household duties: cooking and laundry, for instance, was entirely women’s work……It was the man’s job to do most of the thinking and planning and have say in most decisions, and the woman’s job to do a substantial amount of the work involved in executing those decisions…..My dad stayed home and taught me and my brother, while my mom worked.

What bullshit about “the Second Shift”. In this case, Pop sounds like a plain ole self indulgent, non workin’ motherfucker. Literally.

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33. supervixen - 29 July 2007: Revisionist: sounds cool. I’ve read a memo from Brown & Williamson, prominent sponsors of several 1960s TV series, instructing the makers of the series to prominently portray the heroes as smokers, and admonishing them not to show the villains smoking.

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34. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: Fascinating multimedia presentation over at the NY Times website, associated with this story.

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35. D. Throat - 29 July 2007: BHHM… yeah then the lazy rat bastard has the nerve to blame the “gummint” for his woes…

One of my dad’s main outlooks on the issue was that the feminist movement only been allowed to start because the rise of state power substituted for the function that men used to play in families and caused women not to be as dependent on men as they used to be–something he wasn’t all that happy about.

now where in the entire thread did the intellectuals at DK…. point to the glaringly obvious inconsistencies …

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36. marisacat - 29 July 2007: I come from a long line of women who did not cook and did not clean.

LOL… my great grandmother used to say (via Mother, as my ggrandmother was dead long before I was born)

You spend your entire life cleaning up dirt and then they bury you in it.

Grandmother made a single pie in her life. Cooked a single thanksgiving.. And I have a distinct memory of my mother standing at the fridgedaire, door open, holding a cigarette saying

I don’t even know what to put IN it to MAKE it look full!

Then she slammed the door and walked off…

My father was much better at cooking and cleaning (a mad vacuumer!)

My mother’s own theme line was

you can either clean or read books, you can’t do both.

I sort of allude to it saying…

if it is white and porcelain in this house it is clean, otherwise.. well…

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37. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007: I admit it’s an advantage to have ones booat placed in a progressive stream by one’s parents or milieu. Perhaps the retroids of Orange may see through their own fallacies. I’m not inclined to take a schoolboys lecture on their impeccable progressive credentials over it in the meantime

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38. D. Throat - 29 July 2007: Yeah “Second Shift” is meant when BOTH spouses return home and the women has to maintain the house hold chores… not come home to cook and clean for a louse who has been home the whole day…

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39. Hair Club for Men - 29 July 2007: How much you wanna bet Thereisnoclue…. would run away and cry at these sexually empowered women

Whatever criticisms anybody wants to make of this flash your breasts kind of protests, there’s no denying one thing.

It’s impossible for security to stop it.

Think about it. You can search people for signs, banners. You can take away literature. You can prevent people from speaking at question and answer sessions.

But unless you really know who the potential flashers/protesters are, there’s no way to stop it. You can’t confiscate peoples’ breasts at security. You can’t scan people for body paint.

On the other hand, if the protesters are covered up quickly or if security people get between them and the press cameras, then the sene of disorder you want to create gets lost.

And you can’t get naken protests on the wire services.

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40. marisacat - 29 July 2007: Under attack!

Disease in DC!

Shelter in place! Or not!

LOL:

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:

WASHINGTON, D.C., CLOSES AT LEAST TWO GREEN LINE METRO STATIONS AS DEAD BIRDS ARE FOUND

http://abcnews.go.com?CMP=EMC-1396

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41. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007: Mcat, oh precious, that.

don’t even know what to put IN it to MAKE it look full!

I’m a pile-and-stacker for a daily MO, dishes daily though,
a load o’wash hear and there to keep the over starched grape leaf at bay, which is not to be confused with an actual bay leaf used for athletics…

“Catch up” wash now and then where EVERYTHING is done, stripping down at the last moment

’bout once a year I level my domain in cleaning of almost thermonuclear proportions. Ballast is ruthlessly cast off, Aunt Mildred set curbside if she happens to be visiting in the chalky, formerly vinyl porch furniture at the time.

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42. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: Dead birds? I saw two on the side of the sidewalk yesterday when I went for my walk on a beautiful, sunny day. Should I rush to the hospital for tests?

What fucking cowards Americans are.

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43. colleen - 29 July 2007: Perhaps the retroids of Orange may see through their own fallacies

When they’re in their 50′s going through their 4th divorce?

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44. marisacat - 29 July 2007: twice this year, I had a dead pigeon out back where the garbage and recycle bins are… did not even occur to me …

I did ask the garbage men to pick them up when they collected the garbage, but other than that…

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45. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007: Jeezus Mcat, it could be serious—

DEAD BIRDS FOUND AT IMPOTENCE CLINIC

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46. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007: 43 colleen,
when they’re in their 50’s going through their 4th divorce?

Not unless they run for office…

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47. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007: Im out for a bit as I’m catching Elise Fever

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48. jam.fuse - 29 July 2007: From Wikipedia‘s entry on Spitzer.

On July 23, 2007, New York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo’s office admonished the Spitzer administration for ordering the State Police to keep special records of Senate majority leader Joseph L. Bruno’s whereabouts when he traveled with police escorts in New York City. At the direction of top officials of the Spitzer administration, the New York State Police created documents meant to cause political damage to Bruno. The governor’s staff had stated they were responding to a Freedom of Information request from the Albany Times-Union in late June. On May 23, Spitzer’s Communications Director Darren Dopp wrote Rich Baum, a senior Spitzer adviser, that “records exist going way back” about Bruno’s use of state aircraft, and that “Also, I think there is a new and different way to proceed re media. Will explain tomorrow.” Dopp later wrote another e-mail to Baum after a story ran in the Albany Times-Union about a federal grand jury investigation of Bruno’s investments in thoroughbred racing horses, and wrote: “Think travel story would fit nicely in the mix.” The first Freedom of Information Act request about Bruno’s travel was filed by the Times Union on June 27, nearly a month after.

A 57-page report issued by the Attorney General’s office concluded that Spitzer aides engaged in creating media coverage concerning Senator Bruno’s travel before any Freedom of Information Law request was made. The investigation looked into both Bruno’s travel and the senate leader’s allegation that Spitzer used State Police to spy on him. Cuomo concluded that “These e-mails show that persons in the governor’s office did not merely produce records under a FOIL request, but were instead engaged in planning and producing media coverage concerning Senator Bruno’s travel on state aircraft before any FOIL request was made.” It noted that the Times-Union’s initial FOIL request didn’t even ask for the records involving Bruno that the paper was later given by aides to Spitzer. It also suggests that the governor’s staff lied when they tried to explain what they had done and forced the State Police to go far beyond their normal procedures in documenting Mr. Bruno’s whereabouts.

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49. ms_xeno - 29 July 2007: I guess you could say that right now my faith is at its lowest ebb in quite some time. Even if “faith” isn’t exactly the right term. Maybe it’s just seasonal, or maybe it’s witnessing the same old fights over the same old issues in some of my old haunts. In any case. I was not trying to pick a fight yesterday w/either Madman or anyone else. I still haven’t seen Moore’s film though I probably will at some point. When I was grouching at him yesterday for glossing over Hilary’s record, I was referring to the YouTube link somebody posted here a few weeks ago regarding his lashing out at Gupta over the supposed flaws Gupta had found in the film.

I am happy if Moore wants to fight the distortions of mainstream “news,” not so happy when he adds distortions of his own.

Should have been clearer on that.

I find myself wondering if there’s any connection in the film between what are by and large parlimentary-style governments mentioned in the film (well, not Cuba, obviously) and the fact that these countries have a much stronger labor-positive history than the U.S. and are able to sustain the public approach to healthcare as a right, not a “benefit,” at least for now. Sorry. I’m a perpetual malcontent who tends to obsess about patterns, seeing over and over again what gets left out.

I totally agree with brinn that it’s “up to us to get up and do something,” and I’m bitterly frustrated at how little people seem to agree on what that “something” is. Like I said above, same old battles, arguments, “frames,” year after year. It gets to be too much, some days.

…was gonna’ walk tomorrow but chances are I’ll ride
Got the mean old blues about me and I can’t be satisfied…

Ducking out. See you all in a few days.

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50. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 July 2007: Marisacat, I am not really informed about the Spitzer controversy – I have read only a few items about it so don’t know how true the allegations are. Certainly he was a target of the right because of going after corruption so it’s always hard to tell whether he’s being smeared or not. True or not though, some of it is sticking it would seem … Newsday is fairly decent on this kind of reporting … I haven’t heard anyone mention in RL though, so it may not be registering yet with the general population here …. even my Repub friends havein’t yet gloated to me …. which they are always ready to do ….

**********

Re the brothers-know-it-allz, I was going to guess that they were from a pretty rightwing background. But that sounds even beyond the norm for Conservative households where at least the father usually has a job. So, their father was an unemployed bum who railed against liberals while sending his wife out to work …

It’s been pretty obvious for a long time that those two are far to the right. The whole site is a scam … there is not one there who could even come close to being called a progressive, a liberal or even a moderate Democrat. Meteor Blades, token Lib, is far from it when you watch who he uprates and who he admonishes and troll-rates.

I think it doesn’t matter to those who actually run the country what ‘wedge issues’ politicians claim to support. They can take their pick of the issues, abortion, anti-abortion, poverty whatever, nothing will get done about them anyone.

It is maintaining the Empire that is important, and ‘lefties’ are the real threat to that. Peace advocates, humanitarians all are a threat to the Empire. So certain liberal-sounding issues are permitted but never advocated for passionately, nor do they appear on the fp of dk. But promoters of Peace, are absolutely not welcome there as is evidenced by the banning of so many.

Rightwingers is what they are …. Spineless is just one more of them identified by their own words ….

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51. D. Throat - 29 July 2007: you don’t really understand, do you?
the women I’m talking about the same women you’re talking about. I’m not talking about the Spears/Lohan crowd (though, as much as I disrespect their mores, they do constitute the majority of actual social practice in this country, and you discount them as modern women in their own right at your peril). This is not a dichotomy, much as you would like to make it one, and divide the “sorority girls” neatly from the “real feminists.”

I’m talking about the bright, intelligent young women I went to school with, hang out with, and live with. They’re not sorority girls or dimwitted. Many of them are activists.

But they did (unlike me, who am more conservative about such thing) grow up watching MTV. They don’t have a big beef with objectification. They’re not up in arms if somebody calls them “girl”. And they don’t self-identify as “feminists”, though they assume equality of the sexes and would be offended if you told them otherwise. They want to look as sexy and attractive to men as possible, because that gives them power.

They do care about women’s rights legislation and breaking through the glass ceiling, and work to support those who will help make that happen–which in this case means not supporting Hillary, by and large, but rather supporting Obama these days–whereas the older generation of feminists are more inclined to vote for Hillary just because she’s female.

I’m no fool about these things–I study them for a living. You just don’t know what you are talking about.
by: thereisnospoon @ Sun Jul 29, 2007 at 12:56:29 PM CDT
[ Parent ]

This is historically classic.

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52. Miss Devore - 29 July 2007: string can really hang you up the most.

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53. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: when Johnny comes gang-banging home

Evidence of gang culture and gang activity in the military is increasing so much an FBI report calls it “a threat to law enforcement and national security.” The signs are chilling: Marines in gang attire on Parris Island; paratroopers flashing gang hand signs at a nightclub near Ft. Bragg; infantrymen showing-off gang tattoos at Ft. Hood.

“It’s obvious that many of these people do not give up their gang affiliations,” said Hunter Glass, a retired police detective in Fayetteville, North Carolina, the home of Ft. Bragg and the 82nd Airborne. He monitors gang activity at the base and across the military.

“If we weren’t in the middle of fighting a war, yes, I think the military would have a lot more control over this issue,” Glass said. “But with a war going on, I think it’s very difficult to do.”

Gang activity clues are appearing in Iraq and Afghanistan, too. Gang graffiti is sprayed on blast walls – even on Humvees. Kilroy – the doodle made famous by U.S. soldiers in World War II – is here, but so is the star emblem of the Gangster Disciples.

The soldier who took photos if the graffiti told CBS News that he’s been warned he’s as good as dead if he ever returns to Iraq.

“We must remember that there are a million people in the army community,” Smith said, “And these small numbers are not reflective of a tremendous, pervasive, rampant problem.”

The rise in gang activity coincides with the increase in recruits with records. Since 2003, 125,000 recruits with criminal histories have been granted what are known as “moral waivers” for felonies including robbery and assault.

A hidden-camera investigation by CBS Denver station KCNC found one military recruiter was quick to offer the waiver option even when asked, “Does it matter that i was in a gang or anything?” That is well within military regulations.

“You may have had some gang activity in your past and everything … OK … but that in itself does not disqualify…,” the recruiter said.

Military regulations disqualify members of hate groups from enlisting, but there is no specific ban on members of street gangs. Sgt. Juwan Johnson’s family says such a prohibition is long overdue.

“Just maybe we can save someone else’s child … somebody else’s husband … somebody else’s father,” his mother said. “I would have loved to have seen him with his child, I really would have — that part is hard, that part is hard.”

Of course, those regulations are have reportably done nothing to stop the growth of hate groups in the military.

If these various reports are true, we’re replicating in the military the conditions in our growing, increasingly brutal prisons, where people segregate themselves off into warring factions for protection/comradery and/or ideology.

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54. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: I think I may be in spam.

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55. jam.fuse - 29 July 2007: wrt #34 — I used to sleep in one of those tunnels (2nd pic iirc) du temps en temps when semi-homeless in the early eighties, after flunking out of Columbia U. Nice walk down down memory lane.

Such, Such Were the Joys…

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56. D. Throat - 29 July 2007: i don’t disdain environmentalists or feminists (0.00 / 0)
I disdain a feminist organization (you mean a pro choice organization) that supports a pro-choice Republican over an anti-choice Democrat, thereby putting Alito and Roberts on the bench. Abortion rights have been getting increasingly eroded for the past 25 years now, yet many of these people see no need to change tactics.

If Chafee had beaten Whitehouse with the help of environmental groups, John Boehner would be Senate Majority leader.

It’s really quite simple. If you’re a progressive activist group, either work on specific causes and stay out of the electoral game, or get your priorities straight about whom to support.

The Club for Growth has never endorsed a Democrat over a Republican, regardless of their trade policies. That’s because the Club for Growth knows what it takes to get what it wants.
by: thereisnospoon @ Sun Jul 29, 2007 at 13:04:37 PM CDT
[ Parent | Reply ]

This is like reading FreeRepublic and Little Green footballs all in one… how many lies can he string together in one comment???

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57. liberalcatnip - 29 July 2007: Coming soon: thereisnoclue’s new book, Everything I know About Feminism I Learned From dadwithoutaclue. Sure to be a dkos bestseller.

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58. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: no, thereisnohistoricalmemory, what the Club for Growth, NRA, Focus on the Family et al DO do is back primary challengers AND THIRD PARTY challengers to straying RINOs. The very thing that you REFUSE to recognize that the left has every right to do. Ask Arlen Spector, worthless piece of shit that he is now, what happens when the right of the party goes after you and you have to sell your soul to the Bush machine to keep your seat.

God, people are taking ADVICE from that moron?

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59. D. Throat - 29 July 2007: Which is exactly how Chafee lost…. Club for Growth backed a ultra conservative right winger for the primary which left Chafee tattered and exhausted.

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60. marisacat - 29 July 2007: sorry about spam… think spam rather than moderation has snagged as many as 10 this am…

[sigh]

*************************

As for gangs in the mil, a gay friend who trolls in what I suppose would be called, for brevity, “rough trade” told me years ago that then gangs were working to keep some members clean of tats – and those would be funneled into the mil.

Seems it is just wide open now. Esp that we now take ex felons, those without HS diploma (pretty much a good minimum to maintain) and so on.

And easy to guess, all of those admitted under the loosened rules will NEVER see a PTSD diagnosis from war. All will be ascribed to previous activities.

Hail the future.

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61. marisacat - 29 July 2007: I think I read some weeks/months ago from thereisnobrain that the erstwhile consulting he and Bowers and … Bondad? formed was not doing all that well.

What a shock!

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62. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: Bush appointee “burrows in” at the Interior Department

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63. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 July 2007: They are hysterically self-absorbed. HIS friends, ME, ME, ME! I and MY friends WE speak for all!

Well, he does not speak for minority teenagers, with two or three children by the time they reach 19 or even younger and who will be grandmothers by the time they reach his friends’ ages now.

Nor for single mothers whose main concerns are not flashing their boobs around internet chat rooms, but finding food and shelter for their children in a society where people like his father believe they should not receive a hand up from society until their children are safely provided for.

Or elderly women, who have raised families, but cannot hold onto to homes they paid for after the loss of their husbands because of unfair and enlessly rising, property taxes.

What do he and his friends know of women in the military eg, who according to reports are subjected to widespread sexual harassment and even rape, in Iraq and elsewhere and who have as yet been unable to get their problems addressed effectively, an issue that gets little attention on the bbbs.

These women, and there are many, I doubt would agree that ‘wearing sexy clothes empowers them’! Seems sexy clothes are not much needed when women are seen as the objects he and his friends ‘have no objection to’!

And what the hell is he talking about women voting for Hillary just because she’s a female? His world is very narrow. Again, these bbbs are so far removed from reality it is easy to see how they were co-opted into the ‘movement’ and raise no questions that apply to people outside their yuppy, privileged, mostly, no I think entirely ‘white’ lives ….

He has formulated his entire political philosophy based on a privileged, very narrow-minded and protected life. And he is thoroughly convinced that his small circle of friends represent women in general – obnoxious really and he’s totally unwilling to learn, so bigotted is he against what he perceives as ‘liberals’ and ‘uppitiy women’! They don’t have a clue and he only confirms it the more he writes …

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64. marisacat - 29 July 2007: hmm polling has been showing that Hillary is NOT pulling from older women … but IS pulling from younger, non college and minority women….

I only observe polling – I don’t think it is the end all, be all.

Obama is pulling college educated women, from what I have read. Seems to be getting what Hart and Bradley got… again from polling.

Thereisnobrain seems a bit out of it.

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65. supervixen - 29 July 2007: Oh, fun-NEE!!!! Good on peeder for bringing it up, because I never saw the original comments.

Go back to crusading against female social drinking n/t (0.00 / 0)

by: peeder @ Sun Jul 29, 2007 at 08:43:12 AM PDT

What did I miss?!! n/t (0.00 / 0)

“If you can’t say anything good about someone, sit right here by me.” — Alice Roosevelt Longworth

by: Curmudgette @ Sun Jul 29, 2007 at 09:02:34 AM PDT

One night, in the comments attached to a DKos front-page (0.00 / 0)
post a couple years ago, thereisnosense laid out how he really feels about womens’ right to drink alcoholic beverages. He can fill you in on the details (all the comments were trollrated out of visibility, perhaps someone can dig them out if they were deleted by a merciful admin, search archived hidden comments author=tins), but suffice it to say, he thinks the possibility that a woman might have a fun night out having a drink or two and a romantic encounter afterwards is despicable! Despicable I tell you! It should be forbidden! These women can’t be trusted with making their own decisions! If they get raped it’s their own damn fault! They shouldn’t be able to drink without a chastity belt and a chaperone!
He’s a regular misogynist. Call a spade a spade. I was willing to overlook this until a) his recent outburst in his Hannity vs. HuffPo thread and b) coming here and trying to pick a fight with me.

by: peeder @ Sun Jul 29, 2007 at 09:13:16 AM PDT

is this it? (0.00 / 0)

actually, i’m saying that (0+ / 5-)
the “victim” doesn’t even know if she was victimized here.

She was too fricking drunk–if the eyewitnesses are correct–to even remember.

She left smiling, she arrived battered, and people are REALLY quick here to scream “rape” and blame these “horrible” men.

And quick to lambaste the WSJ writer for suggesting that MAYBE, just MAYBE, if a woman does not want to get taken advantage of, that MAYBE she shouldn’t get passed out drunk at a frat party.

And that’s insane.

What is the Nexus?

by thereisnospoon on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 02:21:10 PM PDT

by: HunterHawk @ Sun Jul 29, 2007 at 11:36:02 AM PDT

oh, this must be it (0.00 / 0)
What a fucking idiot knuckledragging shithead he is. And look who uprated the post. Fucking idiot knuckledragging shitheads, all.

alright, then… (4+ /
Recommended by:musing85, hekebolos, AnonymousArmy, Rick Oliver
Trollrated by:Armando, Kimberly Stone, wu ming, SallyCat, hhex65, BobzCat, Something the Dog Said, lazybum

what about the rape class instruction video in which a woman gets passed out drunk, goes up with a guy to the bedroom, they lie down.

She’s says “I don’t know…” He says it’s ok. She never says no. They have sex; she passes out.

The next day she cries and calls the police to accuse him of rape.

The class instructor asks the class if this was rape. Most of the class says no.

The rape instructor says, “yes.”

And that is bullshit, any way you cut it, and most of America knows it.

What is the Nexus?

by thereisnospoon on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 03:02:12 PM PDT

by: HunterHawk @ Sun Jul 29, 2007 at 11:39:42 AM PDT

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66. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007: A loose thread for Miss Devore from previous posts.

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67. supervixen - 29 July 2007: More:

no, i’m not sick (1+ / 7-)
Recommended by:hekebolos
Trollrated by:Armando, Nonpartisan, SallyCat, peeder, Rick Oliver, Sharon Jumper, bebacker

there are varying levels of consent.

Getting stone-assed drunk at a bar and going home with some stranger, or a friend, and having sex, only to realize–vaguely–that you may not have wanted it after all and wouldn’t have if you were sober, is WAY, WAY different from getting brutalized in a parking lot.

And if you can’t see that, it is you that are not only sick, but out of touch with 99% of America.

What is the Nexus?

by thereisnospoon on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 01:51:21 PM PDT

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68. Revisionist - 29 July 2007: #64 -

I call it the Joan Crawford effect. JC was very popular in the early 30s as the “shop girl” made good. Hillary is more of a role model for woman who have not made it. Most fems I know are who are professonal and/or educated dont care for the Clinton too much. I have heard her described as being like a boomer corporate VP that no one in the company can really stand.

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69. marisacat - 29 July 2007: I have heard her described as being like a boomer corporate VP that no one in the company can really stand. —- Rev

BINGO.

plus, while it is not kosher for public (media driven level) discussion, there are loads of women like myself who would never, ever, ever, never work again for a woman senior manager, VP.

EVER.

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70. liberalcatnip - 29 July 2007: you discount them as modern women in their own right at your peril (Spears and Lohan)

lol…they’re crash and burn child stars. “modern women”? pffft.

whereas the older generation of feminists are more inclined to vote for Hillary just because she’s female.

And I’m sure he has proof about just how incredibly stupid older women are, right? What a fucking joke. All he needs to really write is that he drools over T&A while calling that “empowerment” for women. The rest is just filler.

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71. BooHooHooMan - 29 July 2007: Spoonfed’s feminist curricula at the home-school

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72. liberalcatnip - 29 July 2007: *Real* good news from Iraq:

Thousands of Iraqis have spilled onto the streets to celebrate their football squad’s Asian Cup victory, firing guns into the air despite a government ban.

Iraq beat Saudi Arabia 1-0. Celebratory gunfire was heard in Baghdad, where authorities had banned vehicles and urged fans not to gather.

It was feared crowds could be targets for bombers. Some 50 people died in attacks after Wednesday’s semi-final.

Correspondents say Iraq’s progress has temporarily united the divided country.

The team includes Sunni and Shia Muslims, as well as Kurds.

May they stay safe today.

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73. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: In case you missed it, Brad Blog has the “NOW” piece on vote caging up.

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74. Gayle - 29 July 2007: Supervixen at 15,

Normally I hate scoop style ratings systems as they’re typically used as silencing tools. However, every now and again someone writes something so spot on, I want to shower them with recommends!

This post was one of those times. Loved it!

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75. supervixen - 29 July 2007: 69, MCat: I’ve worked for several big shots and CEOs and the only one who ever asked me to do personal shit, e.g., pick up dry cleaning, make doctors’ appointments etc., was a woman.

I told her I wasn’t hired to do that, that it was inappropriate, and I was about to begin looking for another job.

I left a week later.

Having said that, I HAVE worked for women managers who were very good and professional.

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76. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: closer and closer to having real cyborgs.

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77. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 July 2007: Lol, Catnip, you got it. He’s a dinosaur, a throwback. Even looks like one, airc … lol!

Ms xeno, I wonder if changes have occurred without people first suffering enough to prompt them to act? I can’t think of any situation off-hand where that happened … which is why I’m leaning more and more towards Mitm’s philosophy of letting it all get worse so that it can get better. What we’ve done so far is not working. Electing Democrats …. no it won’t work …

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78. marisacat - 29 July 2007: jam.fuse at 48

thanks for the wikipedia on recent Elliot S.

**************

Just let both SV and SB out of moderation.

Both filters are very skrewey today (and yesterday).

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79. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: I would make one small point … I’d rather that things didn’t hit bottom first, but it’s increasingly clear that entrenched powers WON’T let a rational debate, let along gradual adjustments, happen. Facing that, it’s better to stop helping them and abandon the party, BOTH parties, and try to survive the crash in the hope of something better being built out the other side. At this point, even though I generally agree w/ both Feingold and with my Rep, Gwen Moore, I don’t know that I can in good conscience vote for that PARTY anymore.

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80. Miss Devore - 29 July 2007: 66-IB–I did not feel a sliver of a slur….I just feel compelled to point out that SSRI’s are not “tranquilizers,” because I do remember back when zombification was the way of treating mental distress.

My parent had decided when I was 12, that I needed meds for my “behavior.” So they took me to some female pediatrician, and she gave me an Rx for what she described as the equivalent of “puppy tranquilizers.” (I was a bad, bad puppy!) I think I only took one dose, because my mother would want to administer them to me when I got in an argument with her. That was insulting to me, so I refused to take them.

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81. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: I would add, regarding ms-xeno’s post above, that I’ve been hawking Michael Moore’s work since this new film because I think it puts pressure on the fissures in the Donklephant party. Maybe I’m giving him too much credit, but he doesn’t seem to be so hand-in-glove with them as he was when promoting F911. I look at his talk about Clinton as attempts to shame her.

I’m probably wrong, but that’s how it looks to me.

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82. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: The Big Decisioner contemplates his big leap.

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83. Gayle - 29 July 2007: I’ve worked for men and I’ve worked for women and, if I have anything to say about it, I’ll take the later over the former any day.

I’ve been held back by every male boss I’ve ever worked under. I’ve watched unqualified, lazy men promoted over highly qualified, hardworking women too many times.

I ended up doing what a lot of women do, I dropped out and started my own company. It’s amazing what I’m able to accomplish now that I don’t have someone constantly blocking my way.

I feel for any women stuck where I was. The worst possible position is that of middle manager. You’re never really accepted by the boys and the women view you as competition.

It’s a very lonely and very frustrating place to be.

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84. Miss Devore - 29 July 2007: 72-catnip–yeah! Go Lions of the Two Rivers!

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85. Paul - 29 July 2007: Regarding the “sexually-empowered women”:

Where do people draw the line of what is or is not tasteful in the public square?

Here’s where I draw the lines:

Paris Hilton had a repellent guy in her video. His presence in the video almost completely neutralizes the value of her nudity. Paris also had no political agenda.

If Paris did a video without a dude, and in which she dissed Bush in the manner of Natalie Maines, she would have the killer combo.

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86. marisacat - 29 July 2007: it is going to take food riots, meaning starvation first. And even then it will happen in pockets (much as extreme poverty, near total absence of jobs in wide swathes is secret outside of the region, and it has been that way for decades) and be hushed up.

When thsi country, meaning the workers, accepted loss of promised health care as part of pensions, then recently loss of private pensions themselves… it was clear…it will require starvation.

Dust Bowl level events.

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87. marisacat - 29 July 2007: why would Paris have a political agenda? She is a fully realised business. An endorsement business.

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88. Paul - 29 July 2007: “The new feminist doesn’t decry the display and even occasional objectification of the female body–instead, she uses it to tie men in strings and get what she wants.”

What pathetic man said this? He should probably be barred from holding any future office based on this statement.

He obviously blames women for his lack of balance and restraint. Sounds like he needs to learn about boundary issues.

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89. Gayle - 29 July 2007: “why would Paris have a political agenda? She is a fully realised business. An endorsement business.”

She sure is! Did you know Paris attends parties and events for cash? In true Paris fashion, she doesn’t actually do anything, no singing, dancing or performing of any kind. People pay her good money and she drops in and shows her face and lets the “little people” take photographs with her.

Nice work if you can get it!

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90. Paul - 29 July 2007: marisacat: “why would Paris have a political agenda?”

Paris thought she could exploit the media, but instead, she was exploited by the media.

If she’s smart, and I’m not arguing that she is, she would scold any male public figure who gave her any unwanted attention.

The big lie is that women don’t have a right to be sexy and have their boundaries respected. In our society, these are considered mutually-exclusive.

Once society brands a woman with the “scarlet letter”, she is on the verge of being sucked down by the undertow of a hypocritical, male-dominated society which systematically sucks women dry, then discards them.

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91. marisacat - 29 July 2007: I just see PH as an outgrowth of the roughtly 100 + year US PR and advertising business.

Like Peter Daou, he can call himself a blogger all he wants, he is an AD MAN.

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92. marisacat - 29 July 2007: Paul

paris is not “exploited” by the media. Any more than Hilarious is.

Women are exploited by the political parties and their agenda…

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93. Paul - 29 July 2007: “The new feminist doesn’t decry the display and even occasional objectification of the female body–instead, she uses it to tie men in strings and get what she wants.”

That was a quote from Paul Hodes?

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94. Revisionist - 29 July 2007: #92 -

Paris is not exploited. She is behind everything. She calls the paparazzi and details her every move. She has a stylist in her posse who helps her stage simple things like walking out to her car.

Getting out of your car without panties is just a way to make sure you get in the papers

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95. Revisionist - 29 July 2007: Paris goes political:

Parasite Hilton is heading to Toronto to star in a musical film called Repo! The Genetic Opera. I wish someone will repo what’s left of her fucking career. The six-week shoot begins September 10th in Toronto.

The movie, based on a successful theatrical production by Terrance Zdunich and Darren Smith, is about an organ failure epidemic in 2056 that forces people to purchase genetically perfect body parts from Geneco, a biotech company committed to collecting regular payments.

“The idea is that everybody is buying up organs, and they cannot afford to pay for these organs,” director Darren Lynn Bousman recently told MTV. “Thus, legalized organ repo-men come into the picture. Murder becomes sanctioned by law. So, if you buy a heart and can’t afford it, someone can burst through the door and take your heart out … and they don’t get in trouble for it.”
Bousman, who made the last two Saw films and the upcoming Saw IV in Toronto, will direct Repo!, in which the dialogue is all sung.

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96. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007: 93 – Not Hodes. Just a bloggin nematode, who (stamp, stamp!) makes his living (!!!) studying the mores of the millennials and young x’ers. Link here.

95 – Holy shit that sounds bad.

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97. Paul - 29 July 2007: Marisacat: “paris is not “exploited” by the media.”

I didn’t like the way the media gloated and celebrated the possibility of Martha Stewart being violated by a strip-search or violation by another prisoner, nor did I like it when they focused on Paris Hilton being strip-searched in prison.

Why is it ok for figures in the media to publicly fantasize about real people being violated in prison?

If people want to publicly share fantasies of violation, they and their audience need to admit to themselves and the world that they are repressed, hard-core S&M freaks, for a start.

It’s very dangerous when people are willing to project these fantasies into the public consciousness with no disclaimers about the difference between fantasy and reality, and maintaining an attitude of hypocrisy as if they weren’t actually sharing their darkest fetish with the public.

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98. marisacat - 29 July 2007: LOL In case anyone wondered what Open Left is all about… from Stoller on the FP today:

[O]n a larger note, how is the site? I still feel like I’m finding my voice,

like the transition from electoral focus to governing focus is rocky and difficult.

The progressive blogosphere is no longer in a growth period, institutionalizing into YearlyKos, Dailykos, the Huffington Post, Firedoglake, Americablog and of course, Talkingpointsmemo.

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99. marisacat - 29 July 2007: well Paul,

I personally don’t care that Paris gets out of cars in public not wearing panties.

But the flip side is her orifices will be discussed. ESP when they fall under the authority of the prison system.

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100. Paul - 29 July 2007: marisa: “But the flip side is her orifices will be discussed. ESP when they fall under the authority of the prison system.”

I advocate reform of the [Abu Ghraib] prison-industrial-complex.

Paris has a right to display her naughty bits to papparazi and then scold Larry King if his questions are salacious or his attention unwanted.

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101. marisacat - 29 July 2007: I advocate reform of the [Abu Ghraib] prison-industrial-complex.

anybody sane, or the least bit informed, does.

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102. Revisionist - 29 July 2007: #99 et al …

Paris is also an example of the disconnect of the MSM with real people. Hilton has been a total joke for years. Anytime there is an article on line about her it is to trash her and make fun of her (and her wonk eye, her wonk eye has its on blogosphere). The MSM treats her as a real celeb though.

(from what I can tell the young girls really like those olsen twins even though one is a complete junkie. eating disorder is code for meth or heroin addiction)

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103. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: Wisconsin Democratic Party Pushes Impeachment

Thousands of Democratic party activists have worked in their communities and worked within the party to move the impeachment issue forward. The DNC should consider a strong impeachment resolution out of respect for our efforts and the strong resolutions passed at state conventions.

Our loyalty is NOT to the Democratic Party. Our loyalty is to the ideals that the Democratic Party stands for. Our Constitution is being shredded before our eyes. We must impeach to save our democratic experiment. If the Democratic party leadership and the Democrat House members do not impeach, then the party has no meaning.

The “political life” of America is hanging by a thread.

Governor, if the party cannot move forward, impeach, and save our American political system, then the party is not loyal to the concept of democracy and the Constitution. I will not be part of such a party and I will help lead as many Democratic activists as we can to a different organization.

The impeachment issue is a “make or break” issue, it is a “tipping point” issue, and it is a “live or die” issue for the Democratic party.

If Dems don’t impeach NOW, if third party candidates come on line like Nader and McKinney and push hard on impeachment, then it is very likely that a Republican will be installed on January 20, 2009.

Thirdly, we may see a number of good Democratic House members seriously bashed, and justifiably so, for NOT moving on impeachment when their constituents demand it. Ms. Pelosi is just the first to be hit. If Ms. Pelosi does not quickly change her mind on impeachment and move forward on impeachment with vigor, she may lose in 2008 no matter how much money she spends. Her district voted in November on an impeachment referendum and about 74% voted in favor of impeachment. Tammy Baldwin, one of the most progressive liberals in the House, will be bashed in WI if she does not quickly move to protect our Constitution.

Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Obey are both very smart and powerful people. But they are foolish on the issue of impeachment. In this dire time in American we cannot tolerate foolish people in power. Their foolishness may mean a slow death for American democracy. We will not permit this to happen.

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104. marisacat - 29 July 2007: “Paris Hilton”, the publicly accessible commodity, is a display item.

Pretty much all I have to say on that subject.

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105. marisacat - 29 July 2007: madman

so WIDP is ahead of Feingold? They better add his name (and Kohl) to Pelosi and Obey.

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106. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: From what little reporting I read out of the convention (the local rag didn’t even cover it), there was A LOT of pressure from the convention floor for the party to do something, and a lot of pushback from the “leadership” of the state party to tamp it down.

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107. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007: Leahy: AG Has One Week To Fix Testimony: Senate Judiciary Chairman Gives Alberto Gonzales A Chance To Clarify (CBS/AP/Face the Nation).

In other news, pigs have been given an additional week to complete flight training in a bipartisan compromise also granting an extension of time for Hell to cool.

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108. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 July 2007: What pathetic man said this? He should probably be barred from holding any future office based on this statement. Paul

Paul, that is a quote from one of Daily Kos’ favorite, rightwing, narrow-minded ignorant snots, Thereisnospoon. Today, he made himself the laughing stock of the Internet. It has been hilarious watching him dig himself deeper with every comment. I do believe that if he ever had any political ambitions, these comments of his today can and will be used against him.

Somewhere he apparently discovered the incredible news that has been a big dark secret until now, that ‘women are sexy, they like to feel sexy, they like sexy clothes, etc etc. Oh, and he knows all this because – wait – he studies it!! Rotfl! Stop the presses! Women like sexy clothes and they like sex!! Words fail me, seriously.

If only they realized how appallingly stupid they appear to all but the little circle of fellow ditzes that make up the ‘inner circle’ of the increasingly regressive Daily Kos …. today, thereisnospine made Lusccious Vagina look good! That was a tough record to beat.

They are cartoon figures now …..

Otoh, looking at his attempt to insult and undermine women in general, it was obvious, and I said before knowing his background, (taught by a lazy, unemployed, wingnut father) that his talking points are Rush Limbaugh/Bill O’Reilly talking points. They were meant to undermine women. And they were calculated to strike at women as attractive and sexy. It’s old, long past even Limbaugh’s usefulness, but Spineless seems locked in his father’s past hatreds.

He is officially the Archie Bunker of the blogosphere, that is how I will forever think of him now …

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109. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: Flag-defiling charge ends in fight, arrests

A couple who said they were protesting the state of the country by flying the U.S. flag upside down with signs pinned to it found themselves in jail following a scuffle with a deputy Wednesday morning.

Mark and Deborah Kuhn were arrested on two counts of assault on a government employee, resisting arrest and a rarely used charge, desecrating an American flag, all misdemeanors. The Kuhns were released from custody Wednesday afternoon.

“This is surreal,” Deborah Kuhn, 52, said moments after her son Mark Stidham paid $1,500 bond to get the couple out of jail.

Arrest reports show Buncombe County Sheriff’s deputy Brian Scarborough went to the Kuhns’ home on 68 Brevard Road about 8:45 a.m. Wednesday to investigate a complaint of an American flag on display after being desecrated.

State law prohibits anyone from knowingly mutilating, defiling, defacing or trampling the U.S. or North Carolina flags. Lt. Randy Sorrells of the Buncombe County Sheriff’s Office said the Kuhns desecrated the flag by pinning signs to it, not by flying it upside down.

An upside-down flag typically is flown as a distress signal. The Kuhns said they flew it this way not out of disrespect but to symbolize the state of the country.

Deborah Kuhn said the signs pinned to the flag included an explanation on the meaning of an upside-down flag and asked to “help our country.” One of the signs was a photo of President Bush with “Out Now” written on it, they said.

The couple flew the flag for about a week before Wednesday.

According to the Sheriff’s Office, Scarborough went to the Kuhns’ home and gave Mark Kuhn a copy of the flag desecration statute. Scarborough told the Kuhns the flag was being displayed illegally.

Although the Kuhns live within the Asheville city limits, Sorrells said the complaint was made to a deputy.

“We have jurisdiction throughout the whole county of Buncombe,” Sorrells said. “We have a citizen that complains to us about a violation of law, we’re bound by oath to act on it.”

Scarborough told Mark Kuhn he was going to be issued a citation and asked for identification. Kuhn refused, slammed the door on the deputy’s hand, breaking the glass pane out of the door and cutting Scarborough’s hand, the Sheriff’s Office said.

Deborah Kuhn said they removed the flag from their front porch after Scarborough threatened to cite them, but they objected to showing Scarborough their IDs, which he needed to write the tickets. Scarborough then broke into their house and came after them, they said.

“He tried to keep us from closing the door, but we managed to get it closed,” Deborah Kuhn said. “We locked the door and he broke the glass to our front door and proceeded to assault my husband, saying, ‘You’re under arrest.’”

The Sheriff’s Office said a struggle ensued when Scarborough followed Kuhn back into the house. At that time, Deborah Kuhn also struck Scarborough in the face, authorities said in arrest reports.

Scarborough called for backup and five squad cars responded, Sorrells said.

Deborah Kuhn said she called 911 and ran into the street screaming for help.

Mark Kuhn said he did not attack Scarborough.

“He came after me, and I fought him back,” Kuhn, 43, said. “After I got out of his hold, I ran outside.”

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110. Intermittent Bystander - 29 July 2007: SB – he claims dad was a libertarian Democratic voter.

Okey-donkey?

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111. Revisionist - 29 July 2007: #108 – thats the couple i was referring to earlier. they had offical Paul signs in their home in the news photo. the placemnet looked they they were trying t make sure it got in but it ended up cropped mostly out.

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112. Hair Club for Men - 29 July 2007: Paris goes political

Paris Hilton’s obviously not responsible for her family or their political contributions. But the Hiltons were major contributors to Pete Wilson’s Proposition 21.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/0227243

The Hilton corporation was one of the sponsors of California Proposition 21, which was passed overwhelmingly on Super Tuesday. It will impose sweeping changes in the juvenile justice system – giving prosecutors the power to decide whether children as young as 14 are tried and jailed as adults, and limiting judges’ authority to refer children to treatment or probation rather than prison.

It seems odd to me that the Hilton family’s publicists aren’t better at keeping Paris out of the headlines (or jail). Maybe her tabloid celebrity status is a form of rebellion against “the family”? I don’t know.

But there has to be something going on there that most of us don’t know about.

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113. marisacat - 29 July 2007: Scarborough called for backup and five squad cars responded, Sorrells said.

HELP! An unarmed couple is wrapping themselves in a desecrated US [not confederate] Flag.

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114. Hair Club for Men - 29 July 2007: So the wingnuts who are outraged about the Pace University Student’s being charged with a hate crime for flushing a Koran, are they as outraged as the charges against flag burning in North Carolina?

They seem pretty similar to me.

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115. D. Throat - 29 July 2007: today, thereisnospine made Lusccious Vagina look good! That was a tough record to beat.

This must be a record of some kind.

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116. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: PUMMELING MAMA

It is open season on females, the only hunting season that begins each January first and concludes six days after Christmas. This ancient blood sport is a global phenomenon that transcends ethnic and religious differences. Jamaican law does not prohibit marital rape, incest or sexual harassment. In Hungary and Nigeria, rape is ostensibly illegal but rarely prosecuted. Women of India who report being sexually assaulted are often killed for having scandalized society. In England, more than a thousand women are annually maimed or slain when they reject arranged marriages. Across the Islamic world, one hundred million females have been genitally mutilated. Throughout China, countless newborn girls are drowned so that the one child quota can be filled by boys.

And then there is the Land of the Free, where the Justice Department has documented that an American woman is raped every two minutes. Fewer than half of victims report the crime because they anticipate being raped again, this time figuratively (but no less painfully) by a legal system that assumes women must have been “asking for it”. DOJ also reports that every five hours a woman is murdered by her husband or boyfriend. According to a study by the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, the average prison sentence for men who kill their female partners is less than six years. By contrast, the average sentence for committing armed robbery is twelve years. The implicit rationale is that men should receive twice as much time for stealing other people’s property as they get for killing their own.

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117. Paul - 29 July 2007: Revisionist: “from what I can tell the young girls really like those olsen twins even though one is a complete junkie. eating disorder is code for meth or heroin addiction”

I wish them well. I remember when they were Bob Saget, John Stamos, (And the other guy’s) babies on Full House.

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118. colleen - 29 July 2007: But there has to be something going on there that most of us don’t know about.

Perhaps it’s because I’m an Old School Feminist interested in politics but I cannot begin to say how vast my indifference is to the fate of Paris Hilton and how boring she and the ‘New Feminists’ (who, according to thereisnobrainwaves are so feminist they don’t even call themselves feminist.)
Spoon and Markos and Dana Houle are welcome to try to redefine feminism into ‘bimbos willing to serve my interests’ if they like but
except for the ones innoculated against distemper (as Dana so delicately defined McJoan once…and he was right. She has so little self respect she did not even take him to task) but I think they’ll get as much political leverage out of it as the thrice divorced Limbaugh has. Indeed their collective understanding of women’s issues is right in there with that of BillO of and Limbaugh.

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119. Paul - 29 July 2007: Sabrina Ballerina: “Somewhere he apparently discovered the incredible news that has been a big dark secret until now, that ‘women are sexy, they like to feel sexy, they like sexy clothes, etc etc. Oh, and he knows all this because – wait – he studies it!! Rotfl! Stop the presses! Women like sexy clothes and they like sex!! Words fail me, seriously.”

That’s a classic example of psychological gender-alienation. It sounds like he’s a scientist studying insects.

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120. Hair Club for Men - 29 July 2007: Perhaps it’s because I’m an Old School Feminist interested in politics but I cannot begin to say how vast my indifference is to the fate of Paris Hilton and how boring she and the ‘New Feminists’ (who, according to thereisnobrainwaves are so feminist they don’t even call themselves feminist.)

It feels more like a class issue to me.

Hilton family donates money to a California law that vastly increases jail time for black and Latino youth.

Paris Hilton becomes a tabloid star, more famous for being a “wild youth” than for anything else. She winds up doing some time for a trivial drunk driving charge because of some strange “populist” attempt to show that the law is impartial when it comes to class.

No connection ever seems to be made between Hilton and the Hilton Hotel “brand”. OK. She has nothing to do with the management of the hotel chain but she’s still part of that family. These kinds of people don’t do time for trivial drunk driving charges. If Jenna Bush got caught drinking and driving, it would be hushed up. People would be paid off, intimidated. There would be no jail time and that would be that.

Hilton’s family could have easily made that drunk driving charge or that porno movie go away. It’s odd to me that they didn’t.

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121. Revisionist - 29 July 2007: #117 -

They have been really busy over the years. They made a fortune in the direct to DVD market for kids vids. They became fashionistas and now have an online clothing business.

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122. marisacat - 29 July 2007: well it came out at the time (when she was re-incarcerated) that the wife of a LA County DA had been picked up for driving while her license was suspended. It was reduced to a fine, no time to b served, none demanded…. IIRC (and this is just memory) no probation either.

All sorts of deals for all sorts.

Not sure the Hilton family could make this go away, with the pack of media that follows Paris.

Did they need to expose the scenario? That seems possible too. It has been suggested here (think by jam.fuse) that PH sought the whole thing for “street cred”…

And now her bud Nicole Richie is to spend 96 hours in jail, again iirc.

Frankly I wish the whole family would blow up, and do so about 40 years ago. That would work for me. LOL Really well…

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123. Revisionist - 29 July 2007: #122 — You have some againts Aunties Zsa Zsa and Liz?

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124. marisacat - 29 July 2007: New Thread

LINK

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125. marisacat - 29 July 2007: Well I was kind of bored with the Hilton sisters of a few decades ago. Can’t remember their names. Or maybe they were sisters-in-law.

Hard to remember now…

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126. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 July 2007: And then there is the Land of the Free, where the Justice Department has documented that an American woman is raped every two minutes. Fewer than half of victims report the crime because they anticipate being raped again, this time figuratively (but no less painfully) by a legal system that assumes women must have been “asking for it”. DOJ also reports that every five hours a woman is murdered by her husband or boyfriend.

From Mitm’s post above.

Attention ‘New Feminist’ Thereisnoclue! I wonder if he can in any way connect the brutality and violance against women to their being seen by people like him as mere sexual ‘objects’ not entirely human! And maybe, since his ‘New Feminism’ is not so new at all, he might ask himself if it might be better not to ‘objectify’ human beings at all, male or female. Because when we do that, it makes it a little easier to abuse them. Is that too deep a thought for him?

********

That’s a classic example of psychological gender-alienation. Paul

Well, he thinks ‘feminists’, or as he puts it Limbaugh-style, ‘old feminists’ do not like sex. Clearly he must have some proof of this as he comes from the ‘reality based’ community, but sadly, we saw none other than his proclamation. He is typical of DK. A Conservative who hates liberals posing as a ‘progressive’. They have a knee-jerk reaction, like all ditto heads, to anything that seems even remotely ‘liberal’. It’s the reason why they reacted to Cindy Sheehan the way they did.

Anyway, he declared that ‘new feminists’ love sex! Wow! Up to now, accoring to him, and apparently he has studied this, women did not love sex. Rotfl! I think at least he gave everyone a good laugh today!

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127. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 July 2007: he’s too stupid and self-involved to make connections like that, Sabrina. It’s all about him, and nothing but him.

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128. colleen - 29 July 2007: I wonder if he can in any way connect the brutality and violance against women to their being seen by people like him as mere sexual ‘objects’ not entirely human!

Spoon (& his brother and Musing) think that any woman who gets drunk and passes out is fair game as a legitimate masturbatory object for….someone. When a man’s entire sense of ‘spirituality’ and ‘morality’ is dependant on seeing women as inferior objects he has dominion over that’s a difficult series of dots to connect and anyway I cannot believe that any of the DKos folks are concerned with ‘purity’ issues like violence directed towards women.

Is that too deep a thought for him?

uh, yes.

Well, he thinks ‘feminists’, or as he puts it Limbaugh-style, ‘old feminists’ do not like sex. Clearly he must have some proof of this as he comes from the ‘reality based’ community, but sadly, we saw none other than his proclamation.

Oh, spoons one of those guys who thinks that women who won’t fuck him have something wrong with them whereas (and this will be the story of his and his brother’s social life for the next 40 years) and ironically, the exact opposite is true.

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129. Paul - 29 July 2007: This issue of objectification is difficult. I am convinced that on a science fiction planet of women only, in which the women fertilized themselves with cloned embryos, that women would continue the objectification of women in the absence of men.

Why do I think so? Because you can see the same power-games in the lesbian relationships as exist in the heterosexual relationships.

I know “butch” lesbians and they’re rather man-like in their view of their feminine mates.

Yeah, I know that in many lesbian relationships, neither “wears the pants” in any definitive sense.

But my point is that the objectification issue is about power, not gender.

Furthermore, like narcissism, objectification is natural, and a certain amount does not make one into some kind of monster.

It’s a matter of not objectifying all the time, just as in the case of narcissism, it’s a matter of not being excessively and publicly narcissistic, or narcissistic to the complete exclusion of any recognition of others.

Sexual objectification is a fetish which healthy people can engage in, but it needs to be explicitly not ingrained in our public institutions.

Also, within a relationship, objectification needs to be compartmentalized and subordinated to a greater balance and equilibrium.

If objectification becomes the definitive feature of a relationship, it invariably leads to bad things.

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130. Paul - 29 July 2007: Sorry in advance for the generalization(s) in the post above.

I try not to think in generalizations, but sometimes I fail to adequately check myself for mistakes.

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131. colleen - 29 July 2007: But my point is that the objectification issue is about power, not gender.

Of course it’s about power. That does not mean it’s not also about gender.

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Marisacat

Sunday Thread … ;) 29 July 2007

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Sunday Thread … ;) 29 July 2007

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