Fish in a barrel… 11 August 2007
Posted by marisacat in 2004 Election, 2006 Mid Terms, 2008 Election, Lie Down Fall Down Dems, WAR!.trackback

I’ve come to the conclusion that we are not going to get the votes in September to force a wind-down of the war in Iraq. This is mainly because Gen. Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker are going to give an upbeat report that will assert that the surge is working well enough to justify its continuance. But it is also because the Democrats have powerful disincentives to making a big enough stink to force a change.
or give the appearance of catching on…
The Democrats are enjoying a huge surge in fundraising and party-identification. The election of ’08 is setting up to be an historical blowout. I just doubt they are willing to rock the boat while they have such smooth sailing.
If they are going to do anything crazy it will be related to Gonzales and the Department of Justice. The war? I am not seeing it.
The Democrats plan to use the likes of Murphy, Joe Sestak, Webb and others to sell war continuation… furtherance of war. War forever. Pity the little retail politickers cannot see themselves selling war as they sell the Democrats.
Frankly, willful blind ignorance is heinous. Despicable too.
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I made it to Asia Times yesterday, for the first time in a couple weeks. It is packed…
One thing I landed on was part three of an extended look at how Germany is being brought around, albeit slowly, to the USA! USA! War Agenda.
PART 1: Readiness for endless war
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PART 2: Everything is broken
PART 3: Hail to the chief, or else
Here is a snip from Part 1:
[S]ince Angela Merkel’s visit to Washington (as the conservative opposition leader) on the eve of the US invasion of Iraq, to denounce then-chancellor Gerhard Schroeder’s decision to oppose the war, the return to US good graces was not only the main conservative foreign-policy project; it turned rapidly into the supreme project of the German political class – including the Social Democrats.
Merkel became the chancellor-to-go-to, the most trusted European interlocutor for the US political class to work jointly and determinedly to harden US global hegemony against the consequences of America’s Iraq-inflicted weakness – this not only in the wider Middle East but also, and especially, with regard to Russia and China, the Bush administration’s original enemy of choice before the “birth pangs of a new Middle East” consumed so much of its political capital.
Overcoming the domestic constraints on its ability to use the German army more extensively for “humanitarian interventions”, for the defense of “Western civilization” against Islamist terrorism, is an important, though not the most important, part of the Merkel government’s “the West united behind the US” policy. Notwithstanding the absence of public debate on its strategic implications – eg, of the US (and Israeli) doctrine of preventive war, the abolition of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s geographical restrictions, the mission of “securing access to raw materials” – the rejection on general principles of a more activist military role by a majority of Germans has not (yet) been overcome.
This has far-reaching consequences: it has, in a significant way, rebooted German elite attitudes and expectations toward the EU, and toward Germany’s relationship with France. The public discourse about foreign policy as well as the underlying elite mindset is changing – from “responsibly conservative” to the channeling of the demons Hannah Arendt dealt with in her search for the origins of 20th-century disorder: (British) imperialism, Western militarism and racism. And since the majority of Germans is (again) far behind the curve of elite opinion, the efforts of “re-educating” them (as Der Spiegel recently demanded again) are as consistently strident as they are mythologizing.
There is that glib line, read it and weep. Hard to avoid reading it with anything but dread. Eye and knocking heart, as Auden said…
Do I know how it turns out? I surely do not. But little feels good or right.
Nothing feels decent, I know that much.
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As a momentary diversion from the endless buffoonery of one Markos Moulitsas, Esquire, here’s a disturbing story from The Guardian about how anti-terror laws are being used to squash domestic dissent in the UK. A harbinger of things to come for the United States? Well, Reagan copied Thatcher in her demolition of labour unions and the deindustrialisation of the nation in order to help the capitalists increase their profits (those Chinese prisoners work for surprisingly little!), so why won’t the next President follow-the-leader, as well.
Read and weep:
More police than protestors? These climate change protestors must be some toughies: armed police have to outnumber them just to keep them under control.
But the rights of the protestors will be respected…oh wait, come to find out, they haven’t got any:
But there were some who resisted:
It should also be noted that the police are utilising these anti-terror laws even though law lords have ruled that an identical use in 2003 was patently unlawful:
There’s more, but I’ve given you the best bits from The Guardian story, found here:
http://tinyurl.com/yq6jjv
Oh, and JFTR: I’ve always mistrusted Jim Webb. Reagan’s Secretary of the Navy? A “former” Reaganite? Webb is as much a former Reaganite as Kos: he changed party labels but not his political agenda. The GOP shifted so far to the Right that it left Webb and Moulitsas behind.
But as wrong as Webb is on the FISA vote, he’s not a “coward”. I don’t believe for a second that he was intimidated or stampeded into his vote. Webb just so happens to not care much about civil liberties; he’s a Defence of the Realm sort of chap and always has been.
And didn’t Kos praise Webb to the skies as a “fighting Dem” or some such bollocks not all that long ago? The naivete of Moulitsas (if he really is surprised at Webb’s vote to suspended the Constitution for six months and is not just feigning disappointment for the benefit of the rubes) is truly jaw-dropping. What did he expect?
The best comment in response to Kos’ accusation that Webb is a “coward” was this one:
No question Webb is and was a militarist. And a reactionary. All laid out in his writings, for decades.
The Republcans laughed at VA Dems donating to Webb and calling themselves “liberals”… and loving his war monger pitter patter.
The other people laughing ar Rahm and Bill C, and Schumer.
Fish in a barrel..
Well, many of Webb’s apologists are now saying that he’s a freshman senator and “will learn”.
Hah!
Webb is so deeply embedded into the congressional-military-industrial complex, and has been for his adult life, that he cannot use the “it’s my first day on the job” excuse.
For those who think that Webb may learn the error of his ways, I caution you that he seems to be a remarkably slow learner:
Vietnam War? A good thing.
Iraq War? Not up to the scale of Vietnam quite yet and already a reluctant public have lost their taste for it.
But Webb is there to give the reluctant sheep a sharp prod and run them into the shearing pens.
I much prefer the sheep metaphor to the fish in a barrel. Sheep can be fleeced again and again and again; fish can only be shot once.
well.. the fish die.
shearing is pretty benign. Relatively…
I’ll meet you halfway on this one.
What do you say to sheep in a barrel?
This is a nation of fucking cowards:
really, what else is there to say? Cowards.
LOL My mother had a line, which may come from literature, not claiming it was original… she used to call the American people, “sheep fatted for sacrifice to the moon”.
Not being dismissive of peoples’ lives here, but seems most are persuadable. One way or the other.. Hillary is this, Edwards is that, or Obama, etc.
I am keeping to the idea of ‘going to the slaughter’.
Not that this (the title) was devised to make sense with a cartoon of Roadrunner and Wily E Coyote.
But then…
6-bah-bah?
Actually, Wile E. Coyote and the Roadrunner is the perfect pop culture reference for Democrats v. Republicans. The Democrats cook up some Rube Goldberg scheme and this time they’re absolutely certain that they’ll get that Roadrunner. And of course the ridiculously complicated, half-baked plan blows up in their faces.
I always did wonder why the coyote didn’t hire an attorney to file a product liability suit against Acme. Their products are quite clearly defective and the coyote has suffered multiple injuries as a result. The coyote could have reaped millions in the lawsuit and retired to a roadrunner ranch where he could have his pick from amongst many fatted birds.
Or maybe the coyote DID file suit and hired Jason Melrath, Esq., as his attorney. That would explain why he’s still living in a cave in the desert.
Coyote vs. Acme
yes, there was one cartoon of them I almost used … with WEC setting light to a bomb (that he is sitting on) under water, some harebrained idea to catch up to RR on the ground.
All variations on a theme. Looney Toons.
Same end, all the time: That’s All Folks!!
Democrats Say Leaving Iraq May Take Years
So we’ll be intervening against ourselves ?
I thought that good Baptists didn’t believe in self-intervention because it leads to hairy palms and blindness. For shame, Johnny. :/
Everything you wanted to know about the lure of the red herring, from a British word guru.
Atlantic herring harvest and processing, courtesy of the Gulf of Maine.
Extremely funky website of a Dutch “online experience designer” named Pep Zuijderwijk:Salted Herring. (Recent clients include a snowboard company, BBC Radio, the Van Gogh Museum, and the New Zealand Ministry of Education.) If you open the site, be sure and turn on the radio or click on the blackboard drawing.
speaking of “good” Baptists, Billy Graham has some strange priorities:
Nope, not the fatherless and motherless children, both American, Iraqi and “coalition”. Not the mangled bodies, not the destruction of a nation, not the shredding of civil liberties … NO, it’s GEORGE FUCKING BUSH’S feelings that are important!!!
Man of God my ass.
Oh, and he’s a bi-partisan idiot:
holy shit.
How odd that Martin completely failed to mention Casey Jr’s vote. Particularly since so many of Jr’s ardent supporters (several of whom are Martins drinking buddies) lied repeatedly about Casey Jr and assured everyone that, except for reproductive rights (which, after all, only affect women) Casey Jr was great on everything else, a Real Democrat. Even after his ardent and unnecessary support of Sam Alito (who most definitely is not ‘great on everything else’ ) they refused to admit error or acknowledge their part in electing that asshole. Casey and Webb aren’t cowards, they’re voting precisely as most people here predicted they would despite verbal abuse and harassment from the ‘elite’ and their dittoheads. The folks who are cowardly are those like Martin and his lawyer buddies who refuse to acknowledge they are stupid, wrong and/or deliberately misleading. How fortunate that I’ve archived most of those conversations; I intend to remind them for the next 6 years.
ms xeno – the Baptists may disapprove, but apparently the Lutherans are loosening up.
Catching up:
MCat, hope you’re feeling better! Great to see another post from you.
- wowee, that snit fit by thereisnopoint was one for the ages. I nearly fell off my chair laughing. Thank you Brinn/5hearts for keeping after the idiot! By the way, have you heard from your mother yet? I’m praying for good news.
- re: Shadowthief’s comments on Webb: I absolutely loathe Webb, mainly because of his asinine attitude toward women in the military. Not even most Republicans were as sexist, even back in the ’70s. He’s a “war lover” as well. The worst thing about his “Women Can’t Fight” article wasn’t his sexism, but his eroticization of warfare and killing. That was truly creepy. I was a loudly anti-Webb poster at DKos and told everyone he was a Republican – and a conservative one – at heart. This was instrumental in my transformation into “troll”.
- mattes – nice to see you here! What did you get banned for? DKos is down right now so I can’t check it out. Anyway, join the ranks of the fun people who know where it’s at
13-This is why the dems are not going to pull anything over the repubs on Iraq. What determines “genocide”, “terrorism” “conflict spilling into other countries” right now, in Iraq? A case can be made that they all exist there now, in one form or another. If you look at it in those terms, biden’s plan is more realistic–because some of the ethnic cleansing has already advanced.Still, it leaves the oil deal to be negotiated, and the consent of the Iraqi people, of course.
I also wouldn’t rule out a pseudo-withdrawal in sept of 2008 so whatever rethug in the race–they are all for the supersize-surge, except Paul–will be rewarded for staying the course.
oopsies… there was a voting machine malfunction in Ames. 4500 votes are being “rerun”.
We cant even run a small straw poll right.
{waves hello to all newcomers from the past week}
Was this pledge week?
Man of God by Eliza Gilkyson (Shawn Colvin, Marcia Ball, and many others on backup vocals.)
pseudo-withdrawal in sept of 2008
That’s about the level of subterfuge required, when fainting goats and kippers are your only pseudo-impediment? Why switch herrings in mid-spawn?
Extra question mark there, accidentally.
My public service announcement for thereisnoclue.
I DEMAND a recount. Based on Revisonist’s post
Zesty lemon Pledge.
Pssst . . . Hunter Thompsonesque musings melt the spoon. . . pass it on!
Rigorous Intuition thread re: alleged DK/CIA connections.
Endless war, with Men of God giving their blessing. Those Asia Times pieces are scary.
Holy Fucking Shit …
Surprise, surprise.
Actually, that should be “more complicated than starting one,” and is there a single instance in history in which this was not the case? It’s why war should always be the last resort.
Madman, no. 16,
That’s echt Graham, after Nixon resigned, he said that (approximate quote) “perhaps the problem is that we did not pray enough for Richard Nixon.”
catnip – quit trying to fix that guy up. You’re probably starting to piss off his girlfriend.
Thanks for the Merkel article, can’t believe no one is commenting about this in the thread so far. It’s very powerful stuff.
For me, it shows that what it is coming down to is this: white christians vs. everyone else. They’re assuming (and not acting quickly and therefore facilitating) that we aren’t going to change and save the planet in the years we have to turn it around so it will be about who survives on the beleaguered Earth. It’s (a wetter and greener) Mad Max sooner than later and the wealthy white nations are banding together so they survive what is headed our way. I’m sure the powers-that-be even spin it to each other as a good thing, a planetary ethnic cleansing. Ugh.
Too bad Chavez is throwing a wrench in their plan, guess he’ll have to be dealt with.
jam.fuse
Thanks for that.
Anyone following the link to the RigInt discussion board, don’t miss the comment from
NavnDansk, he also reprints an itneresting diary from Dkos that was a rescue Ranger item…
#1 on the dk hit chart:
“Reaction Shot
by pastordan
Sat Aug 11, 2007 at 01:57:10 PM PDT
So I’m, uh, in the New York Times this morning. You may have heard about it?
I’d like to offer some reaction for people who don’t already know me. It basically boils down to three points:
1. I’m normal.
2. I’m normal.
3. The people around me are normal.”
Normally, I might make a joke.
Herring: I LOVE herring! Unfortunately it doesn’t seem possible to find fresh herring in the US. In Finland, one of my hosts brought home a big batch of fresh herring, tossed them in rye flour, panfried them in butter, and served them with new potatoes. Heavenly! And in Scotland, the best breakfast to be had is Loch Fyne kippers – which are quite unlike the canned “kipper snacks” you get here – heated under the broiler with a pat of butter.
A very good novel about Scottish herring fishermen is Neil Gunn’s The Silver Darlings.
As for pickled herring, it’s OK as long as it’s being chased down your throat with a shot of ice-cold vodka.
I’m on pins and needles waiting for the Great Debate between those two luminaries of the age: Markos Moulitsas and Harold Ford.
The clash will be fierce on Meet the Press tomorrow, because the two men’s views are as different as day and…a few hours later that day.
I’m predicting tears, laughter, a group hug…and surprise guest stars!
I do hope that Ford turns to Moulitsas and says:
“Are the current economic, political, social and demographic trends going to vindicate me?” Well…we’re just gonna have to wait and see how those trends develop over the next ten years, won’t we?…punk.”
Then, of course, Ford will turn Moulitsas upside down and shake the milk money out of the little fellow’s pockets.
What I find disheartening is that this matchup is being sold as a “debate” (it won’t be anything of the sort) and that Moulitsas is allegedly the representative of the “far left” whilst Ford represents the centre.
Not a bit of it. They’re both right-winger Reagan Democrats whose respective NDN and DLC political views are virtually indistinguishable. The NDN is the DLC “re-branded” to use one of Kos’ favourite “buzzwords”. A pile of shit by any other name…a REAL leftist, an articulate one who doesn’t resemble Barney Fife, would shred Ford. Which is why Moulitsas is being “sold” to us by the mainstream media as the “far left”. If Moulitsas is “far left”, then by definition genuine lefties are raving loons who want things like single-payer health care and money to repair bridges.
More from Eliza Gilkyson’s mighty song quoted upthread by I.B.
For my money “Sheep in a Barrel” is just as good as “Fainting Goats”, Shadowthief.
Question regarding the Kos frontpagers, especially MissLaura, BarbinMD, and the worst offender of all, Mcjoan:
Is it considered “blogging” if 50%-95% of your writing is actually copied and pasted from mainstream media sources?
Re: Pastor Dan. A “genuine” Christian would have, for example, confronted the sociopathic hostility of his friend, DHinMi, a long time ago. But so far as I know, never a word of condemnation uttered for Dana Houle’s reprehensible behaviour, not even the mildest of rebukes.
I see that DHinMI is bullying an atheist who dared to speak up on DHinMI’s frontpage paean to the glory and goodness of Pastor Dan, and of course to Pastor Dan’s servant on this earth, God (nope, I didn’t get the order mixed up….)
PD is also “friend” to Del Dem and to Martin of BMT.
I put friend in quotes as I hve no idea what it means to them. Cohorts in cheap politicking… for certain. Other than that. Who knows.
********$$$$$$$*********
At this point Kos and HFjr would ahve to publicly and physically, not just metaphorically, fellate each other, for this to be other than predictable.
Democrats were always problematical. But now they have embraced being plastic dolls. Wind up toys.
I don’t think anyone in the game is really alive.
Kos and CIA make good wifitti.
pinche tejano thought thing were getting bad enough to bring FLH’s oeuvre to the community’s attention: Francis Holland jumps the shark to smear Markos.
In an update:
24, IB: Fainting Goats and Kippers go out in the noonday sun.
How interesting – wasn’t pinche tejano recently deemed a troll by someone at DKos? Perhaps this is his scramble to get back in the good graces of the admins.
44- Insert British Navy joke here.
Ok, I have not made the nytimes, but I came up with the name of Dood’s website (Dudehisattva), a preferable accomplishment, IMO.
taking ron cox (who?) out of the poll, mccain came in dead last with 100 votes. 100.
if I recall correctly pinche was not on the “correct” side of the Ron Paul candidacy. Many of his other diaries are marvelous pieces of, um, semi-fictional surrealism.
Didn’t somebody file an FEC complaint against DKos, alleging that it’s a PAC because it raises and disburses more than $1,000 a year for political candidates? Doesn’t seem to me that will succeed, since the FEC ruled in favour of DailyKos, Red State, et al, in something similar last year (sorry, bit fuzzy on the details). Well, if a PAC is defined as it is in Wikipedia, perhaps the complaint is valid:
But the complaint, even if it goes forward, seems likely to go nowhere. Ah, well, it’s what’s legal in the US that’s most often the biggest crime.
From maverick to desperado, in the blink of a weasely (not, this time, measly) war.
Who’d a thunk it?
48-it was john cox, who no one ever heard of until today. there was a gilmore that dropped out of the race (not Gary) some time back.
Gilmore? Was it Rory or Lorelei?
Recent public portrait of the pastor.
I have this image of Fred the LawAndOrderActor skulking around in the cornfields, polling straw.
i read that the gop makes the campaigns by a minimum of 800 tickets. anyone below that is on sad shape. also heard that romney bought bewteen 7-10K tix…some of those guys spent a lot of money to be 3rd and 4th
Not to worry, Revisionist, Romney will recoup his losses with t-shirt sales and his line of Mormon Action figures. If you buy one male action figure, you get three female figures at no cost.
(Reuters)
Bit of attrition, for a free ticket.
Spelling Dood wrong implies ignorance of limericks.
First they came for the karaoke singers, and I did nothing, because I could sing in tune…
Three or four of them? If it weren’t for the woman’s age, I’d swear that was Mcjoan.
after all of the overplay, I’ve often wanted to attack Coldplay themselves for singing that song … though not as much as I’d like to beat James Blunt.
regarding turn out… appox 26K tix actually bought. approx 14K votes
conservatives are starting to catch on too.
Romney will recoup his losses with t-shirt sales and his line of Mormon Action figures. If you buy one male action figure, you get three female figures at no cost.
LOL!
mcjoan lived up to her critics’ worst expectations, in my humble estimation.
A ranch-raised thinker, she started out as an academic chronicler of Lewis and Clark’s western expedition, and got lured into dkos by a rad brother-in-law who subsequently died, way young, with cancer. (Nice guy who blogged under various pseudonyms in the old days, including My Little Cheney.)
Goddess only knows the truth about Armando, his ex-wife, and their supersecret internet mess (brutally, banningly hushed, despite a private e-mail list explosion) which implicated joan, and was left uncorrected (at least publically) by Armando. (Personally, I never bought the romance. Thought mcjoan played the stoic, as a favor to Aravia. This was all just before Ykos1.)
Cut-and-pastes notwithstanding – pertinent, reliable, and productive, like DemfromCT, fair enough, fill the barrels, feed the sheep – there’s no comparison with MissL. The latter’s a fundie of the cult.
I’ve been sorry to see mcjoan’s trajectory.
Universal and particular mileage may vary.
ugh.
mcjoan and armando / fernando / big tent dem / poyunick / whoeverelse go back a ways. Quite sometime befor Ykos1. em dash the erstwhile editor at LSF was ‘wing woman’ for the romance, such as it is.
Frankly I found mcjoan’s stuff canned, from the get go. And when LSF opened, and I found her onboard (her name had never been mentioned to me) I ws not pleased.
I am sure they (Romeo and Juliet) talk of themselves incessantly and yet are nothing to write home about.
64-iirc-there’s a pic of aravia & mcjoan , arms around each other, in front of columbia law school in the winter (snow). and I did remember him saying prior to that particular season, that he only knew her from the blog.
If i cared enough I would hook up the old computer and look at the email dates, but at the time I was satisfied that he pulled a clenis.
Canned, ok. Americana. No shortage of that.
And I’m not ruling out a fling, or what-have-you.
But am I losing track of chronology? Didn’t Aravia’s marital meltdown barely precede his so-called outing (and conveniently prevent a meatspace appearance at the first convention)? While hogging mystery-man buzz away, in a sulk?
nytimes.com “news” right now:
“How a ‘Good War’ in Afghanistan Went Bad
By DAVID ROHDE and DAVID E. SANGER
At key moments in the fight for Afghanistan, the Bush administration diverted scarce resources to Iraq.”
yes well I am not trying to quantify or assess their relationship (oo aw ew: no). I am just saying it existed, to the best of my observation of the nuance they just could nto keep off the page, in 2005. I thought it was a very going thang for instance during PIe.
Who did what where to whom and who screamed loudest… LOL…
Squirrels on the WH lawn all look alike. All cats are grey in the dark, and so on.
mcjoan is a snot and a snob who makes much of her Mayflower Society background and how “lily white” she is. The relevant DKos quotes were posted here a while ago. I couldn’t care less about whom she’s fucking or when he was outed. She’s a poor writer too, like the majority of the Kossack FPers. I already heard about her poor BIL dying of cancer. She tried to use that as an excuse for why she didn’t write about the feminist forum at YK1. Oh woe is me. Fuck that shit.
Industrious squirrels unite, I guess. Even on the WH lawn.
(Eat your heart, out. Barneycam.)
ahem
The clench/unclench is only of passing interest (and talk about mediocre) in that mcjoan’s job, day in and day out at the site, is to run interference for the boyos. Job it is…
Probably very convenient that one was in flagrante with her.
You know politics, the beast iwth many backs.
LOL leaving this where it is…
I think I’m having a bad punctuation day.
mcat before i forget, i was reading about the design contest for the new transit center/ skyscraper there in sf. are they letting the people have a say or is it just some developers. its a pretty ambitious project. which design do most of the people like.
Guess I just give her some credit for guts, after gilas girl’s feinting spell as female front-pager (talk about romance – Armando waxed lyrical on her prole-esque platitudes) . Following melanie’s shunning, PP’s wedding planning, etcetera.
All very calculated, it’s true.
Revisionist…
I have only seen a sort of ‘incorporates all plans “idea”‘… I’m certain tho that what the City wants and what BOMA (building owners and managers association) wants is what we will get.
I also suspect a looooooooong construction horizon… so many entities are involved.
Good luck to them. If I come across anything of interest, will post it.
We are known in architecture circles as a bitch of a city to deal with, much infighting among entities, much scale down and back and so on. I know that is standard, but apparently we are the Gold Standard for that.
All the people with guts on DKos have been banned.
what guts?
Kid O kissed up to DH and mcjoan kissed up to Armando.
AGG seemed to hit on or off both.. then crumpled.
Same diff. Some worked the plumbing in as well.
The level on exhibit there was just so damned low. IMO.
Well, except for moiv and a few others. A very few.
The level on exhibit there was just so damned low.
In the comfy seats, no argument.
(About that punctuation. . . add HTML.)
Thanks for listening, soap opera fans.
The state of the planet remains dire, as the world turns.
G’night.
Revisionist
here is a little squib that the SF Bay Guardian (alternative press) ran today on the overall cost and where LOL they will steal from to build the damned thing… and it links to another more detailed SFBG article on the politics of it.
I used to go up to a half empty floor my law firm had optioned, picked up and leased – then let sit and yes iwth little opera glasses look out at all the empty floors and floors of commercial space, in the early 90s. Miles of it.
The next few years should be interesting, lately they built some very tall buildings iwth million and up condos… we shall see.
what, you werent on the mailing list?
::snickering:::
i had new herring in eindhoven. it was sliced fish fillet, raw.
had it in june, so a summer thing, newborns in the north sea i suppose. very tiny fillets, about six inches long.
i ate it. but yellowfin is so much better!
catnip – quit trying to fix that guy up. You’re probably starting to piss off his girlfriend.
Surely, you jest. (And no, I won’t stop calling your Surely). I imagine any such creature would require a bicycle pump.
blah blah blah…elitist food…blan blah blah whine. (No I didn’t read it all. Are you kidding me??)
I’ll tell you what, Ms Whole Foods, get back to me when you can’t even afford to eat that regular “contaminated” shit that your local grocery store sells. Then we’ll talk. Oh – and have you ever heard of taking a taxi or is that just too low class as well?
See here, I’ve watched the entire first year’s episodes of Big Love and I own every single Osmond album ever recorded (yes, including Jimmy Osmond’s solo stuff). I think that qualifies me as an expert on the Mormon religion.
Three year waiting list for bludgeoning James Blunt..
#87 -
Lol LC. i nearly commented on that this morning. Whole foods is a scam in many ways and getting scamier. i go the low end grocery near me and they have far better produce. Carrots the size of a dildo. all the grocery stores carry local or state grown produce. often the same supplier as the WF. yet the WF charges $2-3 more just because they are WF. I have scenes every time i go over something. No one can explain to me why their store brand chedder cost $5 for a tiny piece when i can get a pound for the same price anywhere. The 7-11 is cheaper. The cheese isnt “organic” or special in any way.
See, I never quite understood the snobbery of folk whose ancestors arrived on American shores less than 400 years ago (in a leaky boat, no less). The Native Americans were already here and had been for at least 11,000 years prior (some archaeologists say 20,000, others 50,000)–and they walked (across the then-landfilled Bering Strait). Point is, they beat the Pilgrims here by at least 11 millennia and probably much more.
Point is, the Natives should have asked Mcjoan’s ancestors for her papers. Oh, and the Pilgrims? Insufferable prigs, and we were glad to see them go.
Seriously, nobody’s family is older than anybody else’s. Trace our lineages back far enough and we all originate in a common group of ancestors. It’s not what your family did in the past, but what you do with your present that matters. I’m sure Mcjoan and her likes would look down on me, the humble son of farmers, sailors, and miners, but my people did the bloody hard work for her kind and weren’t afraid to get our hands dirty. And we showed up for every war, too, and my sort did most of the fighting and dying.
I had to be a dime store psychologist, but I’ve always thought that snobbery was just a manifestation of a deep-seated insecurity. Sorry to go on, I’m not really attacking Mcjoan, just the idea of snobbery and class snobbery in particular.
#89 Revisionist:
People go to Whole Foods for a sense of self-satisfaction. Best way to clear a queue in Whole Foods? Public announcement: “There’s a Lexus in the parking lot with its lights on.” I found the quality of the food at WF quite dreadful, actually, and particularly so in light of the premium prices.
Give me Trader Joe’s every time. I’m always surprised by the heft of my (washable and eco-friendly) canvas bags when I do my marketing there. I always think that their hummus tastes better than any other I’ve found, the TJ employees are always chipper and friendly (and genuinely friendly, not in that insincere McDonald’s sort of way), and their store brands are real bargains. Oh, and I think TJ’s has laced their Colby Jack cheese with some sort of crack: I’m addicted to it and buy tonnes.
Brinn says I should start commenting substantively again here since I lurk all the time anyway. I know there are some (many?) here who would disagree. Anyhow, here goes.
Mcat at #42: PD is also “friend” to me.
IB at #64: I agree, but McJoan remains the best FP writer at dKos, while SusanG is the nicest person on the FP. Except for Kos himself, whose flip writing style I admire, they’re the only two current FPers I’d give a fig for.
SV at #77: Does that mean Armando has guts too? Because I’d argue that, at least, is indisputable. Whatever you think of him, I’ve never once seen the man kiss up to anybody.
Whatever you think of him, I’ve never once seen the man kiss up to anybody.
No he just kicks people. Making him a brute.
Yes, but IMO a highly intelligent, deeply loyal brute who is absolutely devastating when directed at Republican hypocrisy.
There’s a place in this world for the Armandos as there is for the Mcats. Both are useful.
He kicked ordinary posters at Dkos black and blue.
If they have not been erased acquaint yourself with his massive threads on the Larry Summers hoopla. He kicked anyone and everyone. Those threads were stunningly offensive. And abusive
Merely ONE example.
Further he is, as clear as it can be from observation, a user and abuser of some sort — and one has to conclude after years of evidence of posting marathons round the clock for days, an addict of some sort.
Not a brute I value.
And if you think the job at that site is to oppose Republicans (and that he is some warrior in that battle), you have not been reading closely.
The little saw toothed Blahgs and baby blahgs exist to mesmerise the less than astute and to elect very conservative Democrats, former R if at all possible.
Believe me, I’m no longer under the thrall of the dKos mystique. I’ve basically stopped posting there because all I can get is mindless Stepfordization when I post on substance, and equally mindless pushback when I post on meta.
I think it is ARMANDO’s goal to oppose Republicans, as he is beholden to no one and is an equal-opportunity basher. Ironically enough, I view him as an odd counterpoint to you — both fiery bullhorns who take no prisoners and accept no favors.
And I was trollrated by him during the Summers wars, for backing Summers. So I know whereof I speak.
As the proprietor of one of the “baby blahgs” (maybe we should call it a “preemie blahg” in honor of its tiny size) I can attest that I do not exist to help elect anyone (or almost anyone; I’ve only made one endorsement through the site ever and don’t plan to make any this coming election season); my focus lies elsewhere. And I’ve become increasingly radicalized over the past six months owing to developments at Daily Kos; as I remarked to Brinn the other day, when I first came here I could do little but rage incoherently at you (as you well remember), but now I find myself nodding in agreement more often than not.
You can say I’m coming to it late, very late, but you can’t say I’m not coming to it at all. I am actually beginning to get that the problem is beyond a small group of people at Daily Kos, and is a more systemic problem.
Marisacat’s assessment of Armando is spot-on: the man’s a brute, a bully, and a thug.
Armando attempted to bully me at DailyKos when he was in the throes of one of his periodic fits of dementia or drunken/drugging sprees or whatever it is that obviously afflicts him. I was most reasonable (I’m always careful when dealing with those who are evidently suffering some impairment), but Armando would have none of it. When Armando discovered he could not intimidate me with his vile insults (“fucking piece of fucking shit” was his favourite), nor out-argue me, he simply banned me–then lied like a mangy dog about the entire incident (or else honestly could not remember, which also seems a likely occurrence, given his mental state at the time).
I don’t find Armando an especially insightful writer nor a particularly deep thinker. What’s worse when publishing on a blog, Armando’s penchant is to descend into personal insult rather than defend his positions.
As to the other Kossackatonianvites: I can’t think of a single current frontpage writer at DailyKos who has more than a bare grasp of the mechanics of writing. Kos himself is a stultifyingly dull writer and no one to emulate, unless one aspires to glaring mediocrity. The others are all cut-and-paste hacks with the occasional exception of Kagro X, who at least has a go at writing more than he copies. Meteor Blades is far more creative in his plagiarism, re-writing sidebar diaries written by far more clever people than he.
Certainly there are still reasons to visit DailyKos, but reading the diaries on the frontpage, stuffed with copied-and-pasted blockquotes, recycled conventional wisdom and empty cliches, not to mention a generous helping of party propaganda, is not one of them, unless one is in the mood for some sort of comedy. Anyone who finds the the frontpage diaries intellectually deep or at any time quite obviously hasn’t read any political essays by Chomsky or by Vidal, nor any journalism by Pilger or Hersh.
My primary objection to the frontpage of DailyKos is that, like all propaganda, it is avowedly ahistorical. Kagro X sometimes incorporates an historical perspective into his diaries, as does Meteor Blades, but the rest of the Kos Krew hasn’t got a klue. Kos himself is an historical illiterate whose combination of a deficit of historical knowledge and a near-total misunderstanding of what little he does know shows up again and again in his inability to understand how government and politics in the United States really works. The past is our roadmap: it shows us not only where we are at present, but also where we might go in future. Kos is navigating without a map, or one that’s at best a cartoon sketch, like those “find the end of the maze” puzzles some restaurants have on their paper placemats for the amusement of young children.
Kos did at one time have some absolutely wonderful writers operating in the sidebar diaries–contributing for free, no less!–but of course he ran most of those folk off. Those who did not leave voluntarily were banned, or were banned before they had the opportunity to withdraw. I registered at DailyKos to interact with those writers, and to make a contribution of my own, but I knew that something was amiss when I deviated from the party line on only my third comment on the site and got attacked by the odious DHinMI (who never won an encounter he had with me–the man makes Armando look like Mr. Rogers). I am not sorry to be banned from there, and would have removed myself voluntarily a long time ago, as have many here, had I not been banned.
NP–systemic problem no doubt. A lilywhite systemic problem.
You came late. Well as I have always said about coming late or coming early: its better than not coming at all, especially if you are a male action figure.
Historians always come late. Thats why you are an historian and not an action figure.
Hee hee, I would make an awful action figure!
Kagro X isn’t properly a historian — he incorporates legal precedent into his analysis of Congressional issues, but that’s the job of a lawyer, not a historian. MB I would argue is an excellent historian when he wants to be.
DH does indeed make Armando look like Mr. Rogers, and I would never argue that Armando is Mr. Rogers, lol.
Who cares ??? They are ALL FRAUDS and operatives trying to make a buck off of the fears of progressives and liberals.
Like ST said Kos will be debating Harold Ford the same Harold Ford that he happily campaigned for in Tennessee and remarked that HF had good looking interns (non gender specific)… it is a farce.
Looks like Kos has been taking Kabuki lessons and we will see HF and Kos dancing the two step on Meet the Press. It was bad enough that we had to endure the false bravado of Dems towards the GOP …. now it looks like we will have to suffer thru this pint sized moron battling on behalf of progressives the mighty DLC.
How much you wanna bet no one mentions that the NDN for which Kos is a fellow is a direct off shoot of the DLC and was created by Lieberman and Rosenberg…. both funded by Scaif and Koch Industries leading funders of the religious right and neocons. I doubt watermelon head will have one of his handy dandy power point slides with an organigram of the links between the DLC- NDN- Democratic Alliance.
Looking at the pic of YK… and it made me think… how clueless and delusional can these people be thinking that they are “crashing the gates” and having a revolution over Mojitos and Amstel Lite….
Oh… and while Tim is at it… he should ask Kos about the missing chapter in Crashing the Gates regarding the DLC.
Nonparticle…. you are boring.
If you can not see for yourself that these people are complete frauds then that is your problem. But to come over here and debate endlessly … is uninteresting.
Hmmm…. already lowering expectations:
Oh really MILLIONS???? I could have sworn less than 500 registered bloggers actually attended YK.
ST-As a glaringly mediocre author, I must take umbrage at your description of Markos’s writing style. For future reference, a group which might not be insulted by a comparison to Markos’s style is in the third grade at a Christian fundamentalist school in Mississippi.
Svix and bayprairie – Wouldn’t mind a nice kipper with scramblers, fried tomato, and toast, this morning.
catnip – LOL re bicycle pump. I am surely surly, but I jest not. Spoon’s friend flickred. Must be that Nouveau Brut aftershave.
MTP started here. Ford and kos even look like two peas in a pod. Both just jumped to agree that “winning the war on terror” is a priority.
FYI, a quite abridged version of the Armando/McJoan soap: They became romantically involved while Armando still lived with his 5th wife (just a guess on the wife number, no one knows for sure). According to the story published on the internets, Armando was in near contact contact with his new love, locking himself in the bathroom to communicate, never sleeping, and generally acting as a cad to his wife who was physically injured at the time, and to his preschool-aged daughter.
But the wife got her revenge. She opened a blog, then sent an email to Armando’s entire email address book revealing the sordid details, including a link with to the blog. DK went nuts, screams of privacy violation caused bannings of anyone who hinted they knew, it was hilarious. Armando managed to have the internets scrubbed, so little public record is still available. Some people do have it saved for their personal enjoyment.
The wife was never heard from again.
BTW – It’s David Gregory, not Timmeh, tossing the pingpong balls.
I well as my mother always says there is someone for everyone. I find it interesting that so many of the Blog maids are smitten by psychopathical cruel men. Miss Laura/PP and DhinMI, McJoan/MSOC/Elise and Armando, Thereisnorape and some fool
A few elbows thrown at the table.
kos: If it was only George W. Bush [driving voters to elect Dems], you would be senator today. Blah, blah, muscular Democrats, etcetera.
Ford: Tries to sneak in a dig re anti-Semites, Cindy Sheehan, at DK.
kos: It’s called democracy. Can’t control thousands of voices, etcetera.
Ford: Don’t question my allegiance, etcetera.
But all’s well and they both promise attend each other’s conventions next year.
meta FYI – kos refers to next year’s Yearly Kos, oops, then auto-corrects re its nickname, Netroots Nation.
Ford: Tries to sneak in a dig re anti-Semites, Cindy Sheehan, at DK.
kos: It’s called democracy. Can’t control thousands of voices, etcetera.
Probably accounts for all the bannings. They probably have Moulitsos on a very short leash when it comes to the debate parameters for the Middle East.
I’m guessing its:
1.) No front page criticism of Israel
2.) No front page discussion of Jimmy Carter’s “Peace not Apartheid”
3.) No front page criticism of the morality (as opposed to the execution) of the war in Iraq
Armando managed to have the internets scrubbed, so little public record is still available. Some people do have it saved for their personal enjoyment.
Data storage is so inexpensive and easy these days.
You can say I’m coming to it late, very late, but you can’t say I’m not coming to it at all. I am actually beginning to get that the problem is beyond a small group of people at Daily Kos, and is a more systemic problem.
NP,
On the contrary, aren’t you the guy who, within the past two weeks, referred to thereisnospoon as “internet royalty”?
he is the risen christ!:
“About Markos: I think he was born with a special (7+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
MoDem, Miss Blue, lilnubber, bobnbob, boofdah, funluvn1, blitz boy
mission to be here at this time of chaos and confusion. He is no ordinary guy, in my opinion. I kept looking for some flaw or for him to pull some trick (like politicians do), but he continues to be who he really is. It’s refreshing to see a guy with a big brain and the courage to say what he thinks. We are fortunate that he is humble and just built a website!
by victoria2dc on Sun Aug 12, 2007 “
mission to be here at this time of chaos and confusion. He is no ordinary guy, in my opinion. I kept looking for some flaw or for him to pull some trick (like politicians do), but he continues to be who he really is.
Some people really need to turn off the computer and go outside for a few days.
It’s refreshing to see a guy with a big brain and the courage to say what he thinks. We are fortunate that he is humble and just built a website!
oh dear
Has anybody been keeping track of the “liberal” view of the war in Iraq (for example Steve Gilliard’s post last year)?
Their argument went something like:
“It would be stupid for the Democrats to hurt themselves politically actively opposing it because it’s inevitable that the occupation will be forced to an end sooner rather than later”.
That was last year.
It was also a troll rateable offense at the DK to say something like “no. The USA is a superpower. They can keep this stalemate going for years if they want”.
I’m not sure what’s going to happen over the next few months in Iraq. Who knows, the whole thing could collapse. But I doubt it. I think they’re going to keep inching the number of troops up (and this obviously includes mercenaries) in a way that’s really too small to notice. The press will go along and talk about how “surge just might be working”. In 2008, you’ll have the same stalemate.
What they can’t bring themselves to say is “sure the USA can keep the stalemate going forever and if they get sick of it they can just destroy the country. But it’s still wrong to occupy a sovereign country and steal their oil”.
And now they’re caught flatfooted in the face of the media onslaught about how the “surge is working”.
Spoon’s friend flickred.
Yes but how much had she had to drink before that pic?
I still can’t get my mind around the idea that Bush will not be impeached.
I just can’t accept that the outcome is already determined.
I’ll be demanding impeachment until Bush’s last day in office. I guess then I’ll probably have to start demanding the impeachment of the next president.
Damn those politicians!
Jeebus – what’s his name said kos called himself a “liberal partisan” twice and he did not deny being liberal. I really wish he’d stop claiming the liberal mantle. In his own damn words he’s a libertarian Democrat – whatever the hell that is.
Thereisnospoon is obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, but wouldn’t it serve our goals better to focus more on impeachment?
Isn’t the lack of support for impeachment the worst thing happening on DailyKos and in the media?
Oh, point 4. Don’t talk about the embargo in the 1990s, Dennis Halliday or the infamous Madeline Albright statement.
I remember when I was trying to discuss this in one thread. Kestrel, Elise and the rest of the troll patrol had used up all their troll ratings suppressing Ron Paul diaries so they couldn’t troll rate me but it was amazing seeing them all in the same thread uprating people who were trying not to discuss the embargo.
That’s the big black spot in “liberal” history about Iraq. Don’t talk about the emargo. Even though Dennis Halliday and Hans Von Sponach both resigned, don’t talk about it. Never mention “Voices in the Wilderness” or all the attempts to break the emargo back in the 90s. Never talk about “Desert Fox”. Never talk about the medical holocaust that was going on under Clinton. Don’t quote Robert Fisk or Kathy Kelly.
Because remember, it all started with Bush.
kos sure loves his “muscular Democrats”. Reminds me of what I wrote about Romney last nite:
“90,000 committed, hard-core activists” on dkos? Bullshit. Wow kos is full of it.
DT at 107 – It’s a [Yul Brynneresque] puzzlement, for sure.
lc at 115 – Dunno, but that pic was YK1, and the birds (I suspect, of an ambitious feather) were still still flickring together at YK2.
the birds (I suspect, of an ambitious feather) were still still flickring together at YK2
Yes but note all of the empty glasses.
Kucinich handled himself pretty well on This Week. Georgie S was pretty confrontational with him.
Kucinich handled himself pretty well on This Week.
Good to know. I get to watch that next hour.
Such a stubborn Canadian!
OK, you’re right, she’s got beer.
I believe Mr. Matrix has bragged on teetotaling, himself. The better to hatch his clever plans for taking over blogworld, and collecting whatever perks his market research will bear.
Miss Devore at 112: he is the risen christ! reminds one of David Levine‘s take on said tin jeeziz.
Such a stubborn Canadian!
How do you think we survive the frozen tundra up here? Toques are not enough.
The better to hatch his clever plans for taking over blogworld,
mwahahaha…I, for one, anxiously await his royal highness’ “progressive revolution” with baited breath – costarring Bowers, of course. They will bore the netroots into submission and have their way with them, no doubt.
On Fleeing the Country.
Well, well, well … DIEBOLD machines were used for the straw poll in Iowa, and there are reports of irregularities such as malfunctioning machines and the longer-than-expected time needed for the hand recounts.
More from Brad Blog
Merv has died
Merv has died
Sad to hear. I used to enjoy watching his talk show many moons ago.
lc – I need to head north (with or without hang glider) to renew my own passport, before winter. (It’s a long story. Tale of three countries, etc.)
Thereisnospoon is obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed, but wouldn’t it serve our goals better to focus more on impeachment?
who is ‘we’?
Bush gives cover to Mugabe
IB, the passport application/renewal situation up here has been a nightmare this year since the US mandated passport requirements for canucks to travel to the US. The backlog has been enormous.
A good piece that ties that odious robber baron in CO (think of the way he talks about the United Mine Workers, the vitriol, when you read this piece).
Wally World is in trouble:
Yikes. I’d be extremely offended if I showed up on opening day to find that kind of display going on.
Deepthroat @ #102:
“Millions of people” are behind Markos? He’s either deluded or a liar. DailyKos has 550,000 VISITS per day. Assuming that each reader “visits” DailyKos 10 times per day, and that means possibly 40,000-50,000 people read the site daily.
Pardon me, 50,000 readers is the circulation of the newspaper in the small town where I grew up.
What’s more, not everybody who reads DailyKos is “behind” Moulitsas. Quite a few of the DailyKos readers oppose his conservative, Reaganite political views: some are bold enough to speak up, but most don’t do so because they have seen how quickly the troll patrol deals with such people (either through harassment or banishment). Nonpartisan has admitted he doesn’t dare air his own disagreements for fear of being banned and thus losing the access to DailyKos readers for his own small blog.
Millions of supporters, bah. Moulitsas’ hardcore followers number in the hundreds at best. The mainstream press have elevated him to the status of “leftist leader” because they want a Reagan Democrat to represent “the Left”, thereby making the TRUE lefties and progressives in the United States look like fringe lunatics by comparison. If I have to explain why the mainstream press would wish to do that, then you simply haven’t been paying attention.
shadow – my understanding from a while back is that those hits are generated by diary clicks as well and are not unique. one person shows up, clicks on 5 diaries and gives them 5 ratings bumps.
an excellent slapdown to thereisnodecency and miz laura.
The whole rant is righteous.
BlackAmazon also does a nice takedown on the latest AP scare story about the diminishing white race.
#115 Hair Club for Men:
Exactly so. The United States cannot be forced militarily out of Iraq and can remain there for decades if it so desires. That is the hard truth. Another hard truth is that the Iraqis have at least $8 trillion worth of commercially viable crude oil and the United States government is simply not going to walk away from that. Or rather, I should say that the ruling class of the United States is not simply going to walk away from Iraq until they’ve drained it dry.
This is what Gitmo has done to a child soldier, Canadian Omar Khadr who was picked up in Afghanistan when he was 15 and who the Canadian Conservative government has abandoned – deciding instead to trust the process
Well, some of us do care and have all along. This case is an absolute tragedy and a travesty of justice and it, along with what happened to Maher Arar at the hands of the US government, are symbols of all that is wrong with Bush’s so-called war on terrorism.
At least the Canadian Bar Association has finally stood up – literally. That might help.
His lawyer feels he’s in need of protection. How wrong is that??
And this is the bottom line:
Just another Bush administration legacy. I’m containing the outrage I once again feel about all of this because I swear my head would explode if I didn’t. It’s just beyond unbelievable that this would be happening in the 21st century
says it all
Here is another great link from that piece
heh
spam
Regarding “diversity” talk: I could not resist contributing to a thread on dKos the other day.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/11/01238/3465
I tried a little experiment. What would happen if I didn’t provide the link?
I mean, hey. If certain Bloggers of Note are too busy pontificating on “diversity” to actually, y’know, link to a minority progressive website (this is the conversation on Open Left I referred to here the other day)… if they’re too busy WRITING about blacks, Asians, women, gays, et al to actually seek them out and link to them… why don’t I just be like them, and TALK about the Big Boys without linking to them? If it’s good enough for the Big Boys, it’s good enough for me.
BarbinMD just didn’t seem to get it, though. (“What I’d like is a link to the exchange NYCO is talking about…”)
Lazy twits.
Rising in the current power structure as an anonymous, genderless voice? You’ve come a long way baby!
I don’t read Digby, but as long as you aren’t interested in rising in the power structure, and just interested in furthering the conversation, I don’t see anything that questionable about not being forthcoming with one’s gender.
But yeah, if you get a lot of readers and then whip off the cap in front of everyone and let your shiny silken hair toss free… and then claim you’re a “leading feminist blogger”? Ummm… no.
“90,000 hardcore activists…” Ok, Moulitsas, that number is duly noted. What makes me think it will change (as do all of your “facts”) over the next few weeks?
Marisacat was right: this “debate” between Moulitsas and Ford wasn’t a debate, it was a disagreement over which side one should butter the toast, and scarely worth the time it took to watch.
Moulitsas made a transparent pitch to Clinton with this “90,000 activists” lie (transparent to anybody who knows much about him, that is, which excludes most of MTP’s audience): Give me money and I’ll give you the illusion that you have tens of thousands of hardcore Democratic Party activists behind you.
madman, great link in 141.
bump 143
Madman, you didn’t quote the best part:
YOU DESERVE TO STRUGGLE.
The fact that our focus isn’t maintaining certain power structures, media dominance, or ATTENTION , or money beyond you know basic fucking survival that we aren’t being
“smart”
or
“adult”
about it.
We aren’t networking properly
so we can’t be serious.
We aren’t trying hard enough so why pay us attention?
I thought the whole thing was wonderful.
Jim Kuntsler on Cramer’s rant and the market declines.
The only words that should be on every ones lips is: Glass-Steagall Act
Following the Great Crash of 1929, one of every five banks in America fails. Many people, especially politicians, see market speculation engaged in by banks during the 1920s as a cause of the crash.
What hath Clinton wrought : Banking reform
Secret Iraqi/Italian arms deals?:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/35k3gn
129. liberalcatnip – 12 August 2007
Such a stubborn Canadian!
How do you think we survive the frozen tundra up here? Toques are not enough.
I don’t know if going to Canada will work. What came out of the Maher Arar case was the fact that the USA, Canada and the UK have pretty much integrated their security arrangements.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/10/142241
So I’m assuming if the US government wants an American citizen picked up and “harsly interrogated” Steven Harper et al would be more than willing to comply.
So what country?
Cuba? I don’t know. When Castro dies things are going to get pretty uncertain. Venezuala? Maybe. I’m not sure if they have an extradition treaty or not. New Zealand? Maybe. They’ve been pretty independent of the US over the years. They actually broke diplmoatic reliations with Israel for a few years, not something you can imagine a government doing if they were under the thumb of the USA. One of the Scandinavian countries? I dunno. They seem to be veering more and more to the right. France? Forget about it.
How about Greece? They hate the US government in Greece.
Colleen at #111: yes, that was I. It was also I who called for him to be banned from MLW two days ago.
Again, I came late, after giving him every chance (even to his face). I’ve liked some of his diaries in past, plus I saw him as a draw for MSOC, so I wanted to give him a shot at keeping his opinions to himself. He didn’t take it, so I saw no recourse left but to ban him.
The United States cannot be forced militarily out of Iraq and can remain there for decades if it so desires. That is the hard truth. Another hard truth is that the Iraqis have at least $8 trillion worth of commercially viable crude oil and the United States government is simply not going to walk away from that.
I pretty much buiy Chomsky’s analysis that the real prize in Southeast Asia in the 1960s was Indonesia. Once Suharto took over and they massacred the Communists, Vietnam was important but not crucial. I think he quotes McGeorge Bundy as saying something like “we won in 1965.” Vietnam also had two Communist superpowers more or less on its side. The Russians had captured an NSA code machine off the Pueblo in 1967 and were feeding the VC US sigint (they had the codes themselves from Walker). The North Vietnames had Migs, anti-aircraft batteries and a border with a country which was far more remote than Syria.
Iraq, on the other hand, is a small, weak country that had been softened up by ten years of sanctions with no friendly superpower on its side. It’s not a war. It’s a slaughter. Yes, the US will never be able to succeede in turning it into a compliant pro Israel puppet state but their more than capable of maintaining an occupation as long as the American people stay docile (ie forever).
Supervixen–”How I got Banned at Dailykos” ….I will give the short version, but for the long one you have to buy the book!
Misrz wrote a daily calling out who she thought were anti-semitics at dk and sneakily blaming them for the Oriely expose. She obviously agreed with Oriely, that the anti-semitics had infiltrated dk. Any critic of Israel is an anti-semite to her.
Yet, in another diary, as she was losing an argument with another Israeli critic she claimed her father was dying that day. Since she had lied so many times before I called her a liar. A friend of mine knows her family and was told that miszit’s father had not died.
….her friends came to her rescue, and berated me for calling her a liar. And several others that were familiar with her operating mofo, (myword), also called her a liar. We then were all banned.
Since then, her father has died, and I wish I had not mentioned her father at all, but I really thought she was lying at the time. The reason she came to dk (per her second diary) was to rat out critics of Israel, and so she has accomplished that. What I find ironic is that protecting Israel at all costs will eventually hurt Jews worldwide, but that’s just an opinion. The Jewish culture is so much more than apartheid Israel.
Lucid–nice to know someone was reading my diaries! Thanks.
Revisionist—
<<>>
After watching Markos on MTP, it solidifies my opinion that Markos was under tremendous pressure to clear out critics of Israel from the website. And admittance into the MSM— is to mold the liberal platform on Israel to be the same of the rethug’s platform and the DLC platform….that is, cover Israel’s back no matter what. That is the one ticket into the club….all connected at the roots. He has sold his baby. And I wish I was wrong, as I have been a big support of Markos. Not financially, since being chronically ill for over 14 years has lower my standard of living, but as an advocate for the site. I have mailed hundreds of dk diaries to Congress people over the last almost 3 years. I bugged the shit out of cspan to carry the first convention live, I’ve invited many friends to the site…I now feel like a schmuck.
After watching Markos on MTP, it solidifies my opinion that Markos was under tremendous pressure to clear out critics of Israel from the website.
It makes no sense. In fact, with websites like Counterpunch and Antiwar.com both in the top 25 of political websites, it just makes the Daily Kos look like a laughing stock. It just further removes the Democratic party from the real debate on the Middle East, cedes futher territory to the Republicans, gettoizes them even further into the role as “mommy party or domestic affairs party”.
141. Shadowthief – 12 August 2007
Notice how Markos avoided labeling himself a liberal, though I did like that he made Ford a tad uncomfortable.
…oh and:
They are really panicing since the 30 billion Israeli foreign aid package has not passed.
I think that there are no more sacred cows at DK…. I think the next on the chopping block of Fabooj…. she is just a bit too vocal in her displeasure about the non diversity of the blogosphere. And she is breaking the cardinal rule…. not being loyal and telling their secrets as in she did try to diversify the conferences and was met with hostility all the way…. I’d say her days are numbered. Where did TheresainPa go… I bet she must have thought that they would have never banned her.
Funny thing happens to people who are banned they realize that those that have been banned previously were in fact not the hideous trolls that the thread cops make them out to be… since they themselves are now “One of us”.
What exactly is Ford saying about Cindy Sheehan. The first part is clear. There are “anti-semites” on the Daily Kos. But then he mumbles something about Cindy Sheehan. It’s unclear if Ford is saying that Sheehan is behind the “anti-semitism” at the Daily Kor or if he’s attacking Sheehan for running against Pelosi.
Another I noticed looking at Moulitsos and Ford. “The Man” can always find token ethnics to push his point of view. Race means nothing. I’d rather see Craig Murray and Ray McGovern.
I am just watching this on MTP…. THIS IS HORRIBLE!!!!
The tiny clips that C&L have Kos is promoting Blue Dogs…. WTF!!!!
Is the whole thing online somewhere… because if those are the best clips…. it must have been a disaster.
Right on the MSNBC front page
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/
Little good it did Moulitsos. The gang at LGF still think he’s Adolf Eichmann ready to send all the Jews to the gas chambers.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=26630#c0019
Kos looks extremely creepy with those eyes of his. I felt the same way, like the Nazi Party is alive and well….those are the ones who would send us to the Gas Chambers if they got a chance….Thank God we’re armed!
Shadowthief at 141 speaks for me.
I have something new up.
Isn’t this:
I don’t know that Americans are any better or worse, but we certainly don’t live up to our fine words, our espoused ideals. In some ways, that makes our crimes worse, for they have betrayal and lies laddled on top of the blood and torn flesh.
Just the tradition of British (and European) imperialism. Let’s bring civilization to the savages by killing them, taking their shit, raping their women, starving their kids, destroying their culture and tradition and then jumping up on a stool like an elephant afraid of a mouse when they get mad about it.
Just substitute” democracy” for “civilization”.
D. Throat – 12 August 2007
There is a poster mb nyc, who is out to get all I/P diaries banned. He has attacked many of us, unrelentingly. When we finally fight back….he runs to Hunter. Quite the wimp. Seems to me he is getting paid.
US doles out millions for street cameras
“Since then, her father has died, and I wish I had not mentioned her father at all, but I really thought she was lying at the time.”
a good reason to avoid that kind of debate.
They don’t get it:
http://dailykos.com/story/2007/8/12/11225/6343
If you back down when you’re called “anti-semitic” for criticizing Israel’s horrific human rights record, then don’t expect the charges to stop because you back down.
Ironically the Daily Kos’s and LGFs of the world (by making it appear that every Jew backs Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, by denying that the Noam Chomskys of the world exist) make it look as if all Jews are fanatically lock step in agreement on one political issue.
That’s absurd. That’s like saying I back everything the USA does because I’m an American.
I think Chomsky actually said it best:
The charges are interesting. Those who know the Bible know their origins. The charges trace back to King Ahab, who was the epitome of evil in the Bible. King Ahab condemned the Prophet Elijah as a hater of Israel. The flatterers at King Ahab’s court agreed. Elijah was a “self-hating Jew,” to borrow the terminology of the contemporary flatterers at the court, because he was criticizing the policies of the King and calling for justice and respect for human rights. Similar charges were familiar in the old Soviet Union: dissidents were condemned for hating Russia. And there are other examples in military dictatorships and totalitarian states. Such criticisms reflect deeply held totalitarian values.
DK is Pro Israel just like the way Rahm and Steny and Pelosi want it.
In the end, Kos got owned by Harold Ford. I’m sure Ford still remembers when Kos dissed him right before the election. Now Ford tags Kos with the anti-semite label. Payback’s a bitch.
Mattes- I didn’t realize you’d been banned over the whole jhritz affair. I thought it was just npbeachfun [who I e-mailed shortly thereafter to find out if s'he had any infor on whether jhritz was an op, which I've long suspected].
I left Dkos in Feb – the takeover of the troll cops by the zionist lobby was the last straw. After dhonig posted that callout diary stating that the site was overrun by anti-semites & quoting you a& Litho as examples, I blew a gasket. I had always tried to be polite while at Dkos & realized that I could no longer be polite to assholes like dcoronata, dhonig, keith moon, jhritz, mbnyc, jay elias, plu page, etc. etc. They read like those ‘Facts & Lies about Israel’ ads in the Nation [which prompted me to end my subscription to them back in 2001].
I cannot tolerate apologists for fascism & genocide…
I don’t remember kos as being specifically pro-Israel; I do recall both him and aravia suggesting it was just not worth discussing. too messy. I think that’s why the I/P diaries became notoriously uncivil–there was no interest in the subject for the majority and little interest in moderating.
NP,
I do not believe you have come to anything late.
I guess it doesnt bother any of them that many congress peeps are in Israel at this very moment. The recess was justified las week on the FP because the congress peeps had to go home and be with their constituants. It wasnt a vacation blah, blah blah.
Do any other countries give guided tours while asking for billions of dollars? Do all new congress peeps HAVE TO visit South Korea for instance or even go to freaking Afghanistan?
177-the bus system in the city where I live has surveillance cameras. There is almost 8 years of film of me reading, sketching other bus riders and brushing my hair.
there’s also an annoucement that comes on periodically asking the riders to report unattended packages.
Cad—thing is I knew better than to get personal, that’s their operating mofo.
Lucid—I could have been warned, or ratings taken away, but the goal was banning me from writing weekly diaries. Goal accomplished.
I’m with you on apologists & genocide, no one gets a pass.
I don’t remember kos as being specifically pro-Israel; I do recall both him and aravia suggesting it was just not worth discussing. too messy. I think that’s why the I/P diaries became notoriously uncivil–there was no interest in the subject for the majority and little interest in moderating.
The charges of “anti-semitism” are hazing, exactly the way the charges against Obama for being “inexperienced” for wanting to talk to Chavez and Iran were hazing.
It’s the price of admission to the club. In Obama’s case, the price is affirming you’re willing to go out and kill some ragheads. In Kos’s case, the price is that you’re willing to kill some pro-raghead diaries on your website.
When Kos actually had an anti-Israel frontpager (Billmon) he was never called “anti-semitic” because at the time he wasn’t being auditioned for membership in the club.
Thats what nearly every website says. But it isnt really. The issues are pretty cut and dry IMO. Its not messy for anyone except a handful of pro-israel people who monitor the net and go ape shit. They are always the nasty people in any discussions I have ever seen.
The fact people arent allowed to discuss a specific foreign country in nearly any medium should tell us something.
Thats what nearly every website says. But it isnt really. The issues are pretty cut and dry IMO.
It’s just like global warming and the idea that smoking causes cancer. You have a powerful lobby ready to fog up the issue and say its complex when it’s really not.
There was nothing complex about the destruction of Lebanon and the cluster bombs in the South of Lebanon.
2 + 2 = 4
That was a warcrime
The Earth is getting warmer
Smoking causes cancer
I still say that we should send a few refusiks (or links thereof) over to Orangeville and see if we can make the universe explode.
It’s funny how there’s a much wider range of opinion regarding contested territories IN SAID TERRITORIES THEMSELVES than there are here in the land of the f(r)ee. :p
God how I miss Billmon.
He could take them all on, and expose them for what they are. But look what happened to him after contemporaneously writing about the Lebanon/Israel war. He fell into a black whole.
I suspect Markos is now tightly surrounded by zionists.
No offense, but Billmon always seemed a little twitchy. How many GBCW diaries did he write, anyway?
LOL
Rev – I don’t see what could me more cut and dry. A bunch of ultra-nationalist Europeans steal some land, kick out or kill the inhabitants & then use the misguided attempts of some of the descendents of those inhabitants to fight back as further excuse to engage in human rights abuses…
and this.
He could take them all on, and expose them for what they are. But look what happened to him after contemporaneously writing about the Lebanon/Israel war.
I didn’t read Kos when Billmon was a front pager so I’m not sure if he wrote any pro-Palestinian diaries. But I do remember that he was highly critical of Israel on his own site.
But I think the point still stands. Kos is like any other dotcom/pump and dump scam. Before the election of 2006, when the Democrats were trying to ride Iraq to control of Congress, you wanted as many leftists and radicals on your site as possible. It was far better to have them skirting around Kos and maybe getting pulled into the Democratic party than for them to be supporting Answer or World Can’t Wait or (name your anarchist group). The huge anti-war protests in 2002 and 2003 put a scare into the Democarts. They needed to run Dean as an anti-war candidate in 2003 (before pulling the plug on him with the masking microphone and the scream) then they needed to keep anti-war people near the party in 2005 and 2006. So Kos was friendly to Cindy Sheehan and the anti-war movement.
But once they took congress,hmm, what to do with all those anti-war people? What you now wanted was a “Kos Premium” and the price of admission would be loyalty to Israel, no criticism of the Democratic Party on the *morality* (as opposed to the execution) of the Iraq war and impeachment.
They can’t control the impeachment diaries. So they won’t even try (now). But they can control debate on the Middle East and keeping pruning all those nasty anti-American, Israel hating radicals.
Madman: Yes, and she’ll inherit everyone’s hatred of Cheney, too.
Billmon was brilliant.
He was the only person I read who correctly predicted the outcome of the war in Lebanon last year only four days after it started. It was so startling, yet he was 100% accurate… he called it for Hezobolla when Condi was still attempting to deliver the baby.
What ever about the GBCW diaries… he was on target whereas, these FP idiots on DK have yet to be accurate or even on the right side of anything.
Wait a second!!!
Weren’t the White Boyz just starting to promote Breaux for Gov before he decided to not run????
DT at #167: Yes, Markos is creating a community of the banned and disillusioned that is growing into a real threat to him, simply because he is too shortsighted to be tolerant.
Colleen at #184: Well, of course you may believe anything you wish.
Actually, I don’t think it’s a “threat” to him. Mainly I just see a big dispersal of people going back and working on local/specialty coalitions. The “netroots” is mainly just a missed opportunity (or rather, a hijacked one).
A thought I had the other day: The revolution will not be linked. In sum, these people running this “mainstream netroots” scam seem very sure (why, I can’t fathom) that eventually, serious activists and people with actual organizing experience (ie the “diverse” groups they claim to be seeking), will come running to them. But as I saw actually happen in front of me that day at Open Left, what they’re getting instead is a “Fuck this shit, who needs it?” from the smaller coalitions.
I am thinking back as well to Alinsky’s rules, one of which is “Whenever possible, go outside the experience of your adversary.” If the blogoisie that has hijacked the political Internet is “the adversary” here, it would totally go outside their experience and expectation if you just stopped linking to them. Their model is a “social networking” model… where links just pour in and where an elite manages a hierarchy… but networking is not organizing!!!!
That’s another reason why I didn’t provide BarbinMD with the link she requested. (“Link, please?”) To put it bluntly, it’s time to start saying “Fuck it — you find this information yourself.” Nope, the age of “networking” is over… let the age of organizing begin. These guys had their chance.
I didn’t read Kos when Billmon was a front pager so I’m not sure if he wrote any pro-Palestinian diaries. But I do remember that he was highly critical of Israel on his own site.
One of Kos’s and Armando’s friends, a nasty conservative who called himself Tacitus, used to celebrate the death by Israeli bulldozer of a young and highly idealistic young woman named Rachel Corrie. (and by celebrate I mean that the anniversary of her death was an opportunity for public celebration for this fine specimen of conservative manhood. I do recall that Billmon ripped him an new asshole. The thing I most liked about Billmon is that, unlike Miss Laura, Dana Houle and thereisnobrain, he recognised racism in himself and other white folks and wrote about it clearly and honestly in a manner devoid of sentimentality.
Clearly the establishment blogs have regressed since then and now take their talking points directly from the Heritage Foundation. Indeed the last time I ‘spoke’ directly to Dana Houle he was stridently claiming, two or three weeks after the levees broke, that more white folks had died in NOLA than blacks. seriously.
spam again
NYCO—missed his GBCW diaries, when I first started reading dk, it was spotty, mostly read Salon and just occasionally dk. I really got hooked into him on his site.
IMO, Markos should dump his hired guns (bubble syndrome). If he doesn’t it will ultimately weaken the site, though it might pad his pockets.
One good site could steal all his readers overnight. Being kool changes quickly. As does being relevant. The diversity was his strength, monarchy it’s downfall.
Wish someone serious would start another scoop site….i.e. NOT one of the boys.
Oh, and to clarify my above post:
By “find this information yourself” I mean… let’s face it, the netroots is full of people who don’t know the first thing about true coalition-building. They don’t know how to search out other voices themselves, they don’t even KNOW what they themselves want out of their political activities (except “Elect More and Better Democrats”)… it’s just the whole “Link, please?” expectation that makes me see red. No wonder they’ve been so co-opted.
Time to hit the road, kids. Time to go out into the big wild world and organize.
Scoop only seems to work when (a) there’s a smaller population of contributors who actually are FOCUSED on certain issues, and (b) the website isn’t being run by a megalomaniac.
The Albany Project seems to me to be an example of a Scoop site that is actually functional and useful.
Katha Politt: Cindy, you can’t win, so don’t even bother trying to run against Nancy Pelosi. You’ll only make the left look weak to the Democrats.
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/anotherthing/allcomments?pid=222380
I think that Politt would be as pleased as punch if Sheehan were running against a Republican.
Orcinus has an interesting piece about the hard turn toward serious extremism happening on the right:
the whole piece is quite good, and the one yesterday that it builds on.
Bottomline, US foreign aid to the middle east::
oohhh, and I forgot the conclusion:
I dont know if that would be good. There is a state related I had decided to move to as my “political” blog. Last winter several psuesdo-ex -kosnics started getting pretty involved and it just ruined it for me. The had more or less left the site but didnt leave their mindset behind.
I expected pony and cat photos at any moment
The whole idea that you have to declare you religion or ethnicity to take part in a political debate is ridiculous.
http://dailykos.com/story/2007/8/12/125648/699
You don’t have to be a protestant to criticize Christian fundamentalist attacks on the teaching of evolution. You don’t have to be a Catholic to criticize pedophile priests and the Catholic church’s aiding and abetting said pedophile priests.
In fact, if you’re a Jew or a Protestant and you become aware of a Catholic priest abusing children, it’s your duty, not your right to blow the whistle on it.
Not criticizing Israel for the bombing of Lebanon or for the mistreatment of Palestinians is anti-semitic. It implies that you think Jews are by their nature morally inferior and you have to cover up for them lest you hurt American interests in the Middle East. And it goes the same for criticizing Muslims. If I don’t criticize Muslims for their mistreatment of women, if I cover for the Taliban (the way mainstream Republicans and Democrats did before 9/11) what does that make me? Do I have to be a Muslim to criticize the Taliban.
What a disgrace Harold Ford is.
Well, of course you may believe anything you wish.
I believe that I’ve watched you try to pull this crap many times on several blogs.
In fact, if you’re a Jew or a Protestant and you become aware of a Catholic priest abusing children, it’s your duty, not your right to blow the whistle on it.
of course it is. It’s a strong human instinct to protect children from monsters who prey on them and, in this case, it’s a felony.
I’ve watched the DK catholics dismiss any mention of the INSTITUTIONALIZED, generations long policy of enabling pedophilia as anti-Catholic bigotry and besides, why should anyone else care, they were, after all, Catholic children. It was breathtaking.
I’ve no interest in attacking NonPartisan particularly, but since he has written something here that I think requires refutation, here it is:
Curious phrase: “Keeping his opinions to himself.” So your preferred way of salvaging TINS on MyLeftWing is that he should keep his racist, rape-enabling opinions to himself so that he can be a sort of “undercover agent” amongst the Left. His views are not progressive, not Left, and are abhorrent even to many on the Right. Yet you would rather he concealed those views rather than have theme exposed.
I’m not well-versed in the language of the psychologists, but I do believe that’s called “enabling”. I prefer “collaboration”.
I think that those who helped draw out TINS views–as I did on Booman Tribune when I got him to spout his nonsense about Commie influence in the Democrat Party, or as Brinn did the other day on MLW on why minorities don’t blog (they aren’t educated and don’t have decent jobs and free time), etcetera–did the blogging world a huge favour. You would have TINS cover up so that you can continue to praise him as “royalty” (the Duke of Dumb, I say) and continue your pretence that Thereisnoliberal is something he is not.
And you say that the scales have fallen from your eyes and you’re now seeing everything afresh? You might want to rub those eyes a bit more.
Anybody want to know where Thereisnospoon’s reasoning–i.e., drunk men can’t rape drunk women–leads in the real world?
It leads to a young woman in the military being pressured to recant her rape allegations against three fellow servicemembers, and then being charged with a crime herself.
From the Sunday Los Angeles Times [http://tinyurl.com/2w48f9]:
There’s more, but a lump developed in my throat and my heart started beating faster after reading just those few introductory paragraphs. The three airmen who had been accused of rape make it clear that they share Thereisnospoon’s views on drunk women and rape: if an unaccompanied woman gets drunk in the presence of horny men, she has no standing to complain about being raped:
And the “alleged” rapists practically admit that they did, in fact, force Ms. Hernandez to have sex with them:
These three bastards now have immunity and are being used to further torment Ms. Hernandez. I wonder if Ms. Hernandez will be forced to apologise to the three men she sees as her rapists?
Well, according to Thereisnorape, Hernandez can’t complain because, well, she was drinking:
That’s what Thereisnorape calls “ex post facto regret”, and damned if any young man’s life is going to be ruined just because he forced a crying, protesting young woman to have sexual intercourse with him. I mean, really, crying and pleading while someone rapes you can be interpreted so many different ways.
Sorry, I can’t write any more about this. My heart is beating fast again and my hands are making fists.
I’ve watched the DK catholics dismiss any mention of the INSTITUTIONALIZED, generations long policy of enabling pedophilia as anti-Catholic bigotry
Interestingly enough some of the best critiques of the capitalist exploitation of workers in the USA were Southern slaveowners trying to justify slavery.
Are there Muslims who fixate on Israel to cover up their own repressive governments, sure. Are there critics of Israel who are anti-semitic, sure.
But they’re two seperate issues.
Kos is so hostile to pro-Palestinian arguments that people who write pro-Palestinian diaries tend to bend over backwards not to be anti-semitic. Are some of the people writing these diaries anti-semites? Maybe so but I’m not a mind reader.
It tends to go like “well, I realize that the Jewish people have made important contributions to history and there are people in Israel who have helped the Palestinians but….”
Doesn’t this seems a bit strange to you.
How would it sound if I changed the religions.
“Well, I realize that the Catholic church has done a lot to help the poor and I’m well aware of the fact that 8 Jesuit priests were murdered in San Salvador in 1989 but I still think it was wrong for the Pope to bring Bernard Cardinal Law to the Vatican to help him avoid prosecution”.
And what was the original sin here? Cindy Sheehan coupled the invasion of Iraq with Israel, said she didn’t want her son to die for Israel. Big fucking deal. Maybe it was clumsily phrased but to talk about American policy in the Middle East without talking about Israel is absurd. It would get you laughed at in most of the world.
I’ve been drunk many times and it never turns me into an irrepressible sexual manaic. In fact, it tends to reduce my sex drive. But even more than that, I’d have to be pretty fucking drunk to have my perceptions of sexual consent changed, so drunk in fact I wouldn’t have the energy to go through with it. When I’m only mildly drunk, my perception of the world stays pretty much the same as it is when I’m sober.
Re: 208. Madman in the Marketplace on the Dominionists…
One of my staff–very nice lady but clearly one of the Dominionists–has told me with a sweet smile that she’s very sorry, but that I’m going to hell. She has a very Manichean worldview and thinks that it’s inevitable that there will be a war within the United States twixt the good folk and the bad folk. And these bad folk–of which I am one–either repent or they must be destroyed.
When I asked her what percentage of the population must be purged, she said that the preacher at her fundie church had already claimed that only 5% of the population was already Saved and another 15% could be Redeemed if they repent.
The other 80% of Americans (240 million at last count) have to be sent to Satan. When I pointed out that we wicked ones outnumber the children of the Light, her smug reply was: “That’s why we’re getting the military on our side. You can’t fight a nuke.”
And yes, day to day she’s a nice person, and appears perfectly normal, but if you pry off her lid all these serpents jump out.
If you want to know these people’s blueprint for a future society, read Margaret Atwood’s “A Handmaid’s Tale”. I’m not saying these Dominionists will succeed, but the damage they can do, especially if they can get the generals and admirals on their side (especially the Air Force, since they control most of the nukes), is incalculable.
I believe you’re right.
Re: 217. Hair Club for Men–
Thereisnospoon’s point about rape is that the WOMAN shouldn’t get drunk if she doesn’t want to get raped.
His answer to people who protest that a drunk person cannot consent is a smug, “Well, then, what if the man is also drunk. Are the man and the woman raping each other?”
In other words, a drunk man, or three drunk men, cannot rape a drunk woman. The men are not responsible for their actions, you see.
Thereisnospoon avoids the key issue: the drunken men are NOT claiming that THEY were forced; the drunken woman IS claiming that she was forced, and even the men admit that, at the time, Ms. Hernandez cried and protested. But Thereisnospoon and his equally vile brother, Hekebolos, breezily dismiss that as “ex post facto regret”.
Their is the most appalling, twisted logic that justifies the horrible, soul-killing crime of rape. And now this young woman, who has already been through a traumatising experience, is going to be publicly humiliated and punished.
To twist the knife further, we have people like NonPartisan praising Thereisnospoon and his brother as “royalty” and many others rushing to the defence of these two indefencible buffoons. My small solace in all of this is that Thereisnobrain promptly repaid his defenders on MyLeftWing by engaging in yet another rampage, this one combining ageism, sexism, AND racism in all in one slimy package. Of course, the exact same person has got himself frontpaged on DailyKos, no doubt fuelling his ego and also revealing everything you need to know about the standards that Moulitsas sets for his blog.
The military dropped the rape prosecution and instead charged Hernandez with committing an indecent act. The Air Force granted the three male airmen immunity for their testimony against her.
Our tax dollars at work; pardon me while I puke.
That will teach her and every other woman in the military to report when they’ve been gang raped.
But even more than that, I’d have to be pretty fucking drunk to have my perceptions of sexual consent changed
I know and thank you for saying this. For grownups sexual consent issues aren’t that complicated or difficult. When I read spoonless’s argument to several of my men friends they all said the same thing. They certainly wouldn’t have milked his apologia for felony rape for it’s imagined benefit to a sewer blog either.
In other words, a drunk man, or three drunk men, cannot rape a drunk woman. The men are not responsible for their actions, you see.
Yeah. I understand that. I’m just wondering why people seem to have such different perceptions of alcohol than I do. Judging by the photos of thereisnospoon he seems to be in his 30s. So I’m guessing drinking isn’t something new to him.
And yet the idea that you somehow lose control when you’re drunk is something I find a bit odd. Maybe I just have a high tolerance for liquor but people seem to be talking about it as if it were acid or some kind of hard drug that totally takes you out of your senses. It really doesn’t.
I guess at some point you start acting like Mel Gibson (to bring the topics of alcohol and anti-semitism together) but Gibson was so drunk and so out of control that he could barely stand. You don’t usally have sex in that condition. You just rant for a awhile, throw up, then pass out.
I know I’ve also been drunk in different cultures. Ever get drunk in Madrid? There are very different standards for public drunkeness there than in Anglo Saxon countries. It’s just understood you drink, you get up, and you stagger home as best as possible without making an ass out of yourself. The idea that alcohol gives you the *right* to act like an out of control ass is very American/British. It’s not that the alcohol is doing it. It’s that the alcohol serves as your excuse for doing it.
I mean, come on. I can chase down a bottle of Jack Daniels with a 40 once bottle of beer and if I’m sitting at home alone feeling sorry for myself, I’m going to be pretty out of it.
But if my house caught on fire, I can guarantee you I’d get control of myself in no time and I’d get out of the house.
Re: Colleen @ 219–
I’m guessing that there is a strong connection between the massive infiltration of the US Air Force by Christian fundamentalists/Dominionists and the reprehensible treatment Ms. Hernandez has received. I would like an investigation into the religious views of the officers who made the decision not only to grant immunity to the three men she says raped her, but also made the decision to prosecute Ms. Hernandez. I will bet you that, to a man, they attend fundamentalist churches and are those “born again” types.
The misogyny of the Christian fundamentalists is something they don’t even try to mask. It’s the same misogyny that leads them to attempt to deny women control over their own bodies. The fundamentalists (thus far) have managed to conceal their racism, but I think that as they become more confident (or delusional), that they will rip off that mask, as well.
I know and thank you for saying this. For grownups sexual consent issues aren’t that complicated or difficult.
I keep thinking of that movie Reefer Madness, the one where one puff of marijana turns you into an insane lunatic.
Unless thereisnospoon’s beer is spiked with PCP his perceptions of sexual consent aren’t going to be very different. He’s just going to be a bit slower and less sharp witted.
It’s really a pretty transparent bit of misogyny so ingrained in our culture some people barely think about it. It’s like a built in excuse for people who want to do it anyway, kind of like in Islamic cultures where taking off your veil makes you open season for an attack. The idea that getting drunk makes you open season for rape seems just as ridiculous to me.
Of course the interesting thing is that if I were on PCP or something that really did make me lose control and I committed a crime like rape or murder, the fact that I was on PCP or crack wouldn’t get me off the hook.
In fact, it would make it even worse for the person who committed the crime.
Hair Club:
I’ve been drunk in 22 different countries (that I can remember). Drunk in the United States is NOT drunk in Mexico, Spain, or Italy, that’s for damn sure.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that we disagreed at all. Your point about being drunk is very well-taken: if a man is so drunk he’s not fit to take responsibility for his actions, he’s almost certainly not fit to take action.
Thereisnospoon and Hekebolos have manufactured that favourite creature of right-wingers everywhere, a hypothetical situation (the drunk man and drunk woman who are so far gone that neither can consent to sex, and yet they have it, anyway) that, like the unicorn, could exist but almost certainly never has. After creating this unicorn, they then populate the land with unicorns (Thereisnospoon claims that such drunken sex literally occurs thousands of times a day on college campuses, and we old fogeys just ain’t hip to it) and declare themselves irrefutable experts on all unicorn-related matters.
Btw, you haven’t really been drunk until you’ve been drunk in a Scandinavian country. Rip-roaring Viking drunk is the standard.
As for Thereisnospoon and Hekebolos, my understanding is that the brothers are in their late 20s.
I will bet you that, to a man, they attend fundamentalist churches and are those “born again” types.
I wouldn’t take that bet and good point. I was thinking how simular this judicial solution was to rape cases I’ve read about in Saudi Arabia, the UAE and other nations where Sharia law is the norm. I had forgotten about the fundie influence on the AF.
and, as an aside, Shadowthief, I am very pleased you’ve decided to join in the conversation here
Hair Club (#211), that would make a good quality stand-alone post. How long it would stand at DK, I don’t know. Probably not long. But maybe I could start a thread next week at Mo Betta, some kind of “open thread” specifically about the situation in Israel/Palestine, and you could put it over there.
Or have you got your own space, by any chance ?
As for Pollitt whining at Sheehan, fuck off, Katha. Just because you’ll keep your tail between your legs indefinitely for the sake of a buck and a little status doesn’t mean that everyone else has to. What a pathetic, willfully blind letdown you have turned out to be.
Billmon took a huge dislike to the Paine-Smith Collective at SMBIVA. I never understood why, really. But after reading his commentary over there, I made a point of avoiding any further perusals of his writings.
[...] Fish in a barrel… [image] s l o w l y they catch on…. I’ve come to the conclusion that we are not going to get the […] [...]
mattes,
I suspect Markos is now tightly surrounded by zionists.
There are a few people posting on that site who are probably Israeli operatives. Certainly, the site is lousy with AIPAC types. W/r/t your earlier post about how you got banned, you mention that it’s being claimed by wingnuts that dKos is infiltrated by anti-Semites. The poster calling himself Tacitus that colleen mentions earlier (real name Josh Trevino, who likes to describe himself as “the whitest Mexican you’ll ever meet”) used to engage in a tag-team act with fellow wingnuts to pollute the site with anti-Semitism. This is how it worked. Someone would post a really scabrous and brief anti-Semitic comment. Within minutes, Tacitus (who by the way once admitted to me he’d never read the Roman historian whose name he used for a handle) would appear in the thread with some variation on the following: “It’s no surprise to see trash like this posted by the people who frequent this website!” After I’d seen him do this a few times, I accused him of acting in tandem with someone to ruin the site’s reputation. He pretended to believe that I was accusing him of posting under two names (this was pre-Scoop days, and you could change your handle for every comment you posted if you wanted to). I very explicitly stated what I was accusing him of, he pretended to continue not to understand me, a typical tactic for him. Then he vanished for a while. Whether he was told to stay away, or just decided to chill out for a bit after being exposed, I don’t know. Perhaps he just ran like a coward.
He later got banned from dKos for trying to make hay out of Kos’ “screw ‘em” comment about the mercenaries whose bodies were desecrated in Fallujah 3 years ago. He remained great and good friends with Armando. I used to wonder why Kos allowed such a slander artist and fascist (the word is not too strong) to louse up the comment threads. At this point, I imagine they were collaborating behind the scenes on some level, though I don’t think the rupture between them was an act. Very similar temperaments, a pair of huge egos, and both of them arrogant, provincial types with very shallow grasps of history and limited perspectives. Also, IIRC, Tacitus’s site was the top political blog in terms of traffic and then Kos’s site got a lot bigger, which I’m sure drove the Trevino crazy.
Shadowthief at #218: first off, a factual correction: I never praised Hekobolos as “blogosphere royalty,” as I had in fact never encountered him directly online (and I didn’t even know he was TINS’ brother until someone said so on that thread).
As for TINS, I was trying to condemn his thoughts and words on the subject of rape (which I did pretty vehemently) while not condemning him in toto, both because I thought he had a history of excellent posts on other subjects and because I felt he brought in much-needed traffic for MSOC. Those bloggers who try to make their living at it (and I don’t go in that category, as I have another source of income) literally can’t be as choosy as they might like. Unfortunately, TINS promptly went, as you said, on another rampage, leading me to believe he needed to be banned.
Tacitus was never the top political blog in terms of traffic — before dKos and HuffPo, that was Instapundit, or maybe DU depending on how you define “political blog.”
Noor Khan
Yes of course, I think you mean the photo of trench warfare in the Iran Iraq war…
I found it somewhere myself, perhaps I forgot to label the resource.
**************************
I let several out of Moderation, 2 or three from
Shadowthief
also from:
Madman
D Throat
Mattes
ms xeno
and others…
So take a look at the thread again..
Off to check Spam.
New thread up in a minute or two…
New Thread:
LINK
Nonpartisan: Oh, so you only praised Thereisnospoon, not his brother Hekebolos, as “blogosphere royalty”.
Considering that it was Thereisnospoon, not Hekebolos, who made the vast majority of offensive comments (misogynistic, racist, ageist) and not Hekebolos, that’s rather a weak rejoinder.
I’m sorry I missed the coronation ceremony. Did His Spoonness receive a crown, sceptre, and ermine robes? I think it’s highly revealing of the attitude of the self-styled “blogosphere insiders” that they have proclaimed “royalty” among us. By process of exclusion, that would the rest of us commoners and peasants. I’m surprised that with my dimwitted brain, lack of money, and poor edumucation that I’m able to blog at all. My white skin and XX chrosomes must be compensating for my overall stupidity, poverty, and illiteracy.
I’m not a monarchist, but the blogosphere royalty do remind me of the British royal family: smug, supercilious, self-serving, and stupid.
I’d always rather hoped the blogosphere would be a model of the society we wished to create: democratic and open to people of all walks of life. Instead, certain people have attempted to create a stratified society ruled by “royalty” where being white, male, and wealthy mean that you rule.
Now, where have I seen such a society before….
that statement applies equally as well to prostitutes.
As for TINS, I was trying to condemn his thoughts and words on the subject of rape (which I did pretty vehemently) while not condemning him in toto, both because I thought he had a history of excellent posts on other subjects and because I felt he brought in much-needed traffic for MSOC.
Your ‘condemnation’ (and emsock’s) were hardly vehement and most of us are abundantly aware of why y’all allowed him to go on and on and on and as a front pager there too. We’re also aware of the timing and the pre-convention drama you were trying so hard to generate. Apparently ‘emsock needs the money’ is something you and she regard as sufficient justification for all manner of activities intended to generate controversy;. That you would come HERE and use emsocks financial troubles as an excuse is genuinely disgusting.
(and no, spoonless isn’t a particularly interesting analyst or good writer. Indeed, he sucks at both)
that statement applies equally as well to prostitutes.
Indeed. It’s precisely how prostitutes reason.
Ouch! Direct hit amidships!
lc re passports – way upthread.
I know, I’m dreading the process. But it can’t be any worse than the year I was told that my birth certificate had expired. Excuse me?! That involved a hot-rush maneuver with round-trip overnight couriers, many phone calls to a (helpful, thanks again, dearhearted competent ) provincial office clerk, and (finally, life-restoringly) lamination. Phew!
Last time around, post-9/11, was an adventure, too. But once again, a responsible human with a direct phone line saved the day (albeit, the day before departure, and after a phone interview). This time I have the luxcury of not immediately needing to catch a plane. What a novelty!
i really miss billmon. i only really started reading him regularly a couple of months before the israeli war on lebanon, but did a lot of reading in his archives after that summer. we could really use his voice right now.
neiwert has had these fascists’ number for years now. my only hope is that they manage to alienate themselves so effectively from the 80% of us damned that any revolution/coup attempt they make is abortive. they’re certainly moving the pieces into place.