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Washing to shore… 27 August 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2004 Election, 2008 Election, DC Politics, Lie Down Fall Down Dems.
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       Exploding whale - Tainan Taiwan – 2004

Stand back.  They are using “electability” again.  Democrats will be hearing that one for decades.  It failed miserably in ’04, so keep rolling it out. Poor Democrats, always on cruise control..

New York Magazine on Obama:

The effect on the Clinton-Obama dynamic has been appreciable. According to a recent CBS News poll, fully 82 percent of Democrats now say she has “the right kind of experience to be a good president”—compared to just 41 percent who say the same about him.

And while Democrats on average still find Obama more likable than they do Clinton, she leads him by sixteen points on the question of electability.

“Look, I find it hard to get behind her. She’s the worst of both worlds: too conventional and too divisive at the same time,” says a former Clinton White House official uncommitted to any candidate. “But Obama has been a disappointment. Playing the same card over and over, that he was against the war from the beginning, just is not enough. And it’s not just on foreign policy. Across the board, his campaign has been way too cautious, way too safe. I find myself wanting to support him, but there’s not enough there.”

   

 

the last pic of the tryptich, on the right, always looks like a pol on the hustings to me…

And, while washing to shore, use what you have

And they treated an interviewer the way politicians surely wish they could at times, refusing at first to remove their iPod earphones for a discussion of life on the trail.

“I don’t want to do this,” Jack protested to his father, John Edwards, the Democratic presidential candidate and former North Carolina senator.

“I don’t care whether you want to do this,” Mr. Edwards replied.

A moment later, Jack hid his face in his hands.

“Mr. Jack, do we need to go in the back and have a conversation?” asked Mr. Edwards, lifting his son’s head.

The boy sat for a few more minutes, fidgety but obedient, before being freed and happily bounding with his sister to the fort they were building in the back of the bus.

No criticism from me, not the first, not the last to shove the family into a perambulator and tour the country.  

Hell, wandering thru photo galleries in the local Ohio print media during the vaunted Hackett run  –  Jesus was at Fallujah too, on the side of the angels, you know –  I landed on some bizarre, surreal photos of the militarist, the Jr League (black linen, really big sunglasses) wif and the small kids, out on the Cincinnatti suburb hustings. 

Folding tables set up with war paraphernalia. His helmuts, camo gear, flak jacket, firing clips – I am not kidding…  It oozed, between bake sale and legal murder display.   Blood cupcakes anyone?

Oh yes I am so supposed to vote for that.  Not in this lifetime.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Here is a bit of a glance back, from TAPPED:

Here’s one: At the Democratic forum today, Edwards spent some time — as he often does — lamenting the fact of medical bankruptcies. This is no surprise: Elizabeth Warren, who’s done the seminal work in this area, informally advises him.

But when the Bankruptcy Bill — which Edwards voted for — came up in 2001, then-Senator Paul Wellstone offered an amendment to “create an exemption for certain debtors that can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the court that the reason for the filing was a result of debts incurred through medical expenses.” In other words, to prevent medical bankruptcies. The amendment failed, 65-34. Edwards was one of the 65 voting against it (as was BidenClinton and Dodd both voted for, and Obama wasn’t yet in the Senate). In doing, he broke with just about every liberal in the Senate. At times, votes like this can be out-of-context, as Senators kill good liberal amendments to get an important progressive bill to the floor. But the Bankruptcy Bill was hardly that. It’s a hard vote to explain. But I’d still like to hear what the Edwards camp has to say.

 

Clean-up in the hot sun had to be scrumptious

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I landed on this little tidbitat a conservative site:

Transportation officials have closed Interstate 40 in both directions in West Memphis near the Mississippi River. Officials say an inspector discovered that a bridge pier on the approach bridge west of the river had settled overnight. The bridge on the Arkansas side is being retrofitted to make keep it stable during an earthquake. Officials say the closure is precautionary. Tennessee Department of Transportation Chief Engineer Paul Degges says the bridge is being inspected to make sure it has “not been compromised by the settlement in any way.” Degges says all lanes are blocked so inspectors can take a thorough look at the span. Motorists are being diverted to the Interstate 55 bridge over the Mississippi until further notice. Tennessee is doing the bridge work, even though it is on the Arkansas side. (WREG)

But not to worry about the I-35 in Minneapolis.  The Republicans plan their convention there next year.  New Orleans will languish, but the bridge over the Mississippi up north, at Minneapolis will be fixed.

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Couple of comments from the previous thread, from D Throat

D. Throat | |

Finally someone is “whispering” about Clinton’s Banking Reform failure… “the revocation that dare not speak it’s name”:

________

Fed bends rules to help two big banks

If the Federal Reserve is waiving a fundamental principle in banking regulation, the credit crunch must still be sapping the strength of America’s biggest banks. Fortune’s Peter Eavis documents an unusual Fed move.

FORTUNE Magazine
By Peter Eavis, Fortune writer
August 24 2007: 5:09 PM EDT

NEW YORK (Fortune) — In a clear sign that the credit crunch is still affecting the nation’s largest financial institutions, the Federal Reserve agreed this week to bend key banking regulations to help out Citigroup (Charts, Fortune 500) and Bank of America (Charts, Fortune 500), according to documents posted Friday on the Fed’s web site. (aka Friends of Bill Clinton)

The Aug. 20 letters from the Fed to Citigroup and Bank of America state that the Fed, which regulates large parts of the U.S. financial system, has agreed to exempt both banks from rules that effectively limit the amount of lending that their federally-insured banks can do with their brokerage affiliates. (Just smell what that Rock is cooking… gee kinda smells like 1929) The exemption, which is temporary, means, for example, that Citigroup’s Citibank entity can substantially increase funding to Citigroup Global Markets, its brokerage subsidiary. Citigroup and Bank of America requested the exemptions, according to the letters, to provide liquidity to those holding mortgage loans, mortgage-backed securities, and other securities.

This unusual move by the Fed shows that the largest Wall Street firms are continuing to have problems funding operations during the current market difficulties, according to banking industry skeptics. The Fed’s move appears to support the view that even the biggest brokerages have been caught off guard by the credit crunch and don’t have financing to deal with the resulting dislocation in the markets. The opposing, less negative view is that the Fed has taken this step merely to increase the speed with which the funds recently borrowed at the Fed’s discount window can flow through to the bond markets, where the mortgage mess has caused a drying up of liquidity.

On Wednesday, Citibank and Bank of America said that they and two other banks accessed $500 million in 30-day financing at the discount window. A Citigroup spokesperson declined to comment. Bank of America dismissed the notion that Banc of America Securities is not well positioned to fund operations without help from the federally insured bank. “This is just a technicality to allow us to use our regular channels of business with funds from the Fed’s discount window,” says Bob Stickler, spokesperson for Bank of America. “We have no current plans to use the discount window beyond the $500 million announced earlier this week.”

There is a good chance that other large banks, like J.P. Morgan (Charts, Fortune 500), have been granted similar exemptions. The Federal Reserve and J.P. Morgan didn’t immediately comment.

(WSWK: Wall Street Welfare Kings… It is sickening to see that the only reason Reagan and Clinton have gotten this far is because the tapped Americans hatred towards poor Black people… Reforming Welfare as we know it…. yeah by give 100 times as much welfare to the rich)

The regulations in question effectively limit a bank’s funding exposure to an affiliate to 10% of the bank’s capital. But the Fed has allowed Citibank and Bank of America to blow through that level. Citigroup and Bank of America are able to lend up to $25 billion apiece under this exemption, according to the Fed. If Citibank used the full amount, “that represents about 30% of Citibank’s total regulatory capital, which is no small exemption,” says Charlie Peabody, banks analyst at Portales Partners.

The Fed says that it made the exemption in the public interest, because it allows Citibank to get liquidity to the brokerage in “the most rapid and cost-effective manner possible.”

SO, HOW SERIOUS IS THIS RULE-BENDING? VERY. ONE OF THE CENTRAL TENETS OF BANKING REGULATION IS THAT BANKS WITH FEDERALLY INSURED DEPOSITS SHOULD NEVER BE OVER-EXPOSED TO BROKERAGE SUBSIDIARIES; INDEED, FOR DECADES FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS WERE LEGALLY REQUIRED TO KEEP THE TWO UNITS COMPLETELY SEPARATE. THIS MOVE BY THE FED EATS AWAY AT THE PRINCIPLE.

Aug 27, 11:02 AM —

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And Part Two:

D. Throat | |

Seems like Word press is now limiting text… here is the second part of the above:


(Gee… I think he is talking about Clinton revoking the Glass Steagall Act… yunno the one that made it impossible to “accidentally have another Depression because companies like…. well like the very ones mentioned in this article Citicorp and JP Morgan (a do over) to mix brokerages and banking… which may lead to over extension…. yeah… like what the Fed just did giving them 500 million A PIECE with no assets to back it up….. The economy goes boom… no wonder Sarkozy is distancing himself… and instead of stockbroker jumping out of window… the inner cabinet is resigning… probably heading out to the “homestead” in South America…)

Sure, the temporary nature of the move makes it look slightly less serious, but the Fed didn’t give a date in the letter for when this exemption will end. In addition, the sheer size of the potential lending capacity at Citigroup and Bank of America – $25 billion each – is a cause for unease.

Indeed, this move to exempt Citigroup casts a whole new light on the discount window borrowing that was revealed earlier this week. At the time, the gloss put on the discount window advances was that they were orderly and almost symbolic in nature. But if that were the case, why the need to use these exemptions to rush the funds to the brokerages?

Expect the discount window borrowings to become a key part of the Fed’s recovery strategy for the financial system. The Fed’s exemption will almost certainly force its regulatory arm to sharpen its oversight of banks’ balance sheets, which means banks will almost certainly have to mark down asset values to appropriate levels a lot faster now. That’s because there is no way that the Fed is going to allow easier funding to lead to a further propping up of asset prices.

Don’t forget: The Federal Reserve is in crisis management at the moment. However, it doesn’t want to show any signs of panic. That means no rushed cuts in interest rates. It also means that it wants banks to quickly take the big charges that will inevitably come from holding toxic debt securities. And it will do all it can behind the scenes to work with the banks to help them get through this upheaval. But waiving one of the most important banking regulations can only add nervousness to the market. And that’s what the Fed did Monday in these disturbing letters to the nation’s two largest banks. Top of page

Find this article at:  money.cnn.com…

Aug 27, 11:03 AM —

********* close of D Throat comments *********

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Apologies about Word PRess.  It is a mess.  The Spam Filter is still blocked (nothing in it for three hours, I get over 800 spam a day)… and sometimes comments take minutes to appear.  Pages are slow, the comment form is slow.  ”Back pages” seem to be on a dying mule.

They need Liquid Plummer. Badly.

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One more from the previous thread:

D. Throat |

Marie EXCELLENT diary

  |

Marie there is a very interesting comment in your diary:

I was at the Fed in 1987 (0+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Marie

and I remember the events of October very clearly. Most of my colleagues had been working much longer than I had and they were all worried about the values of their mutual funds and pension schemes. I had nothing but student loans to pay, so nothing to lose.

Anyone who thinks that the Federal Reserve is above being interested in the price of markets so long as there is adequate transparency and price discovery is stupid. Everyone who has savings in bonds and stocks will be watching the charts as a market crashes – including the lawyers and economists at the Fed.

I was part of the team that dissassembled Glass-Steagall, and part of the team that dissassembled the McFadden Act (the other depression era law that banned interstate banking to “keep Wall Street bankers from spreading speculation to Main Street”. In retrospect I think we probably got it wrong to let the banks have their way because there is no doubt that they have leveraged the economy into a very dangerous state. Any little problem in the credit markets could now tip a large proportion of the economy into a spiral of decline. And Bush only knows how to create problems . . .

“It ain’t what people don’t know that hurts `em – it’s what they do know that ain’t true.” – Will Rogers

by LondonYank on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 02:16:49 PM PDT

Please do tell more!!!

Aug 27, 2:37 PM

*********** close of comment *************

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Comments»

1. Marie - 27 August 2007

I’m so sick and tired of the “in retrospect we got it wrong” — just like the WMD and Baghdad streets strewn with flowers. Jumped all over London Yank (wonder if she knows Dr. Laura? – the Clinton admin economist)

2. D. Throat - 27 August 2007

PARIS (Thomson Financial) – French President Nicolas Sarkozy called for a clear timetable to be set for the withdrawal of foreign troops from Iraq in his first major foreign policy address.

‘The Iraq tragedy cannot leave us indifferent. France was, thanks to Jacques Chirac, and remains hostile to this war,’ which was triggered by the US invasion in 2003, he said at the fifteenth Conference of Ambassadors in Paris.

‘The political solution includes the marginalisation of extremist groups and a sincere process of national reconciliation, which must include every segment of Iraqi society — and God knows there are a lot — and every Iraqi being assured of fair access to the institutions and resources of their country,’ Sarkozy said

‘It also includes a clear horizon concerning the retreat of foreign troops,’ he added. ‘It is then and only then the international community, starting with the countries in the region, will be able to act most usefully. France, for its part, will be prepared to help.’

During the conference, Sarkozy also said France supported a policy of openness to Iran as long as it respected its obligations in the nuclear domain, and reaffirmed it was unacceptable for Iran to arm itself with nuclear weapons.

He also said France will not block negotiations between the European Union and Turkey, but he reiterated his opposition to Turkish membership in the 27-nation bloc.

During the conference, Sarkozy also told ambassadors he hopes the G8 could become the G13.

‘As well as economic cooperation, the need for strong political cooperation between the most industrialised countries and the large emerging economies to fight against climate change justifies the evolution,’ he said.

3. lucid - 27 August 2007

Marie – the ‘in retrospect we went to far’ line was quite telling. It surprised me actually, as I’d always liked her ME diaries. I’ll have to go check out your response.

4. marisacat - 27 August 2007

DT

Not to worry. Elsewhere today Sarko is saying top of the list is Iran.

They must not be allowed to go nuclear.

He is on board.

Bow wow. Ship him a tricouleur leash.

5. lucid - 27 August 2007

Marie – NPK recced your diary… working both sides of the table as usual.

6. D. Throat - 27 August 2007

Marie: Good response

At least London Yank is being honest. Bonddad was all over Huff Post drooling over a Rubin comeback with Hilary Why Clinton’s Economy Was Better

I agree that it is not good to go into too much detail… but painting with such broad strokes… as Bonddad does here absolves the Clintons of these shenanigans.

7. Marie - 27 August 2007

lucid – as Marisa can attest to, I score low on dKos name recognition and even lower at any point in time of having sense of the individuals behind those names. That ignorance got me into a lot of stupid battles that Marisa was smart enough to avoid.

8. marisacat - 27 August 2007

d’Andrea Tyson is back from London, I think, from someting I just read. Think she might be back in CA. Again.

Bill will be ahppy to campaign in CA, I guess.

*********

will see if this goes thru. An earlier comment did not

9. marisacat - 27 August 2007

Now that I have a minute will go read the diary

10. Marie - 27 August 2007

D. Throat, I think Bonddad is too far into the professional finacial bubble (pun intended) to be of much use to laypersons. Thirty years ago, senior people in the finanicial services had more common sense that they acquired from years of working their way up the ranks instead of going out and grabbing an MBA based on a lot of unreality. The most useless people I ever worked with were some consultants from McKinsey & Co — and one of them was a senior partner.

11. marisacat - 27 August 2007

“honest people don’t expect fraud”.

LondonYank reply to Marie…

I have a head ache from the line, a head ache the size of TX.

12. D. Throat - 27 August 2007

Interesting that London Yanks responds with “It wasn’t me” excuse. What was the problem then…. instead of making millions they wanted to make BILLIONS.

I could see if there had not been precedent… yunno in 1929… but there was… so how can one claim… the “No one could have predicted that the levies would break”????

13. marisacat - 27 August 2007

well bonddad saw fit to partner with Bowers and one of the Atkins idiots (thereisnospoon), so smarts is not in the equation with him.

A couple years ago someone identified for me the industry news and releases that he pilfers. The names of the publications did not mean much, so I did not retain them.

14. Revisionist - 27 August 2007

Sen Craig in bathroom sex scandal.

15. marisacat - 27 August 2007

When the Craig thing first floated to the surface, think the story was he was offering cash to men, for him to service them.

16. D. Throat - 27 August 2007

These days, Mr. Weill and many of the nation’s very wealthy chief executives, entrepreneurs and financiers echo an earlier era — the Gilded Age before World War I — when powerful enterprises, dominated by men who grew immensely rich, ushered in the industrialization of the United States. The new titans often see themselves as pillars of a similarly prosperous and expansive age, one in which their successes and their philanthropy have made government less important than it once was.

“People can look at the last 25 years and say this is an incredibly unique period of time,” Mr. Weill said. “We didn’t rely on somebody else to build what we built, and we shouldn’t rely on somebody else to provide all the services our society needs.”

Those earlier barons disappeared by the 1920s and, constrained by the Depression and by the greater government oversight and high income tax rates that followed, no one really took their place. Then, starting in the late 1970s, as the constraints receded, new tycoons gradually emerged, and now their concentrated wealth has made the early years of the 21st century truly another Gilded Age.

Only twice before over the last century has 5 percent of the national income gone to families in the upper one-one-hundredth of a percent of the income distribution — currently, the almost 15,000 families with incomes of $9.5 million or more a year, according to an analysis of tax returns by the economists Emmanuel Saez at the University of California, Berkeley and Thomas Piketty at the Paris School of Economics.

Such concentration at the very top occurred in 1915 and 1916, as the Gilded Age was ending, and again briefly in the late 1920s, before the stock market crash. Now it is back, and Mr. Weill is prominent among the new titans. His net worth exceeds $1 billion, not counting the $500 million he says he has already given away, in the open-handed style of Andrew Carnegie and the other great philanthropists of the earlier age.

….

17. D. Throat - 27 August 2007

Revisionist History

The new tycoons describe a history that gives them a heroic role. The American economy, they acknowledge, did grow more rapidly on average in the decades immediately after World War II than it is growing today. Incomes rose faster than inflation for most Americans and the spread between rich and poor was much less. But the United States was far and away the dominant economy, and government played a strong supporting role. In such a world, the new tycoons argue, business leaders needed only to be good managers.

Then, with globalization, with America competing once again for first place as strenuously as it had in the first Gilded Age, the need grew for a different type of business leader — one more entrepreneurial, more daring, more willing to take risks, more like the rough and tumble tycoons of the first Gilded Age. Lew Frankfort, chairman and chief executive of Coach, the manufacturer and retailer of trendy upscale handbags, who was among the nation’s highest paid chief executives last year, recaps the argument.

“The professional class that developed in business in the ’50s and ’60s,” he said, “was able as America grew at very steady rates to become industry leaders and move their organizations forward in most categories: steel, autos, housing, roads.”

That changed with the arrival of “the technological age,” in Mr. Frankfort’s view. Innovation became a requirement, in addition to good management skills — and innovation has played a role in Coach’s marketing success. “To be successful,” Mr. Frankfort said, “you now needed vision, lateral thinking, courage and an ability to see things, not the way they were but how they might be.”

Mr. Weill’s vision was to create a financial institution in the style of those that flourished in the last Gilded Age. Although insurance is gone, Citigroup still houses commercial and investment banking and stock brokerage.

The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 outlawed the mix, blaming conflicts of interest inherent in such a combination for helping to bring on the 1929 crash and the Depression. The pen displayed in Mr. Weill’s hallway is one of those Mr. Clinton used to revoke Glass-Steagall in 1999. He did so partly to accommodate the newly formed Citigroup, whose heft was necessary, Mr. Weill said, if the United States was to be a powerhouse in global financial markets.

“The whole world is moving to the American model of free enterprise and capital markets,” Mr. Weill said, arguing that Wall Street cannot be a big player in China or India without giants like Citigroup. “Not having American financial institutions that really are at the fulcrum of how these countries are converting to a free-enterprise system,” he said, “would really be a shame.”

Such talk alarms Arthur Levitt Jr., a former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, who started on Wall Street years ago as a partner with Mr. Weill in a stock brokerage firm. Mr. Levitt has publicly lamented the end of Glass-Steagall, but Mr. Weill argues that its repeal “created the opportunities to keep people still moving forward.”

Mr. Levitt is skeptical. “I view a gilded age as an age in which warning flags are flying and are seen by very few people,” he said, referring to the potential for a Wall Street firm to fail or markets to crash in a world of too much deregulation. “I think this is a time of great prosperity and a time of great danger.”

…..

Nothing but greed motivated these people to repeal the Depression Era safety net.

18. D. Throat - 27 August 2007

These days, Mr. Weill and many of the nation’s very wealthy chief executives, entrepreneurs and financiers echo an earlier era — the Gilded Age before World War I — when powerful enterprises, dominated by men who grew immensely rich, ushered in the industrialization of the United States. The new titans often see themselves as pillars of a similarly prosperous and expansive age, one in which their successes and their philanthropy have made government less important than it once was.

Crooks see themselves more important than the government…. pure DLC ideology.

19. Revisionist - 27 August 2007

a policeman crashed in bush’s motercade in New Mex. Second time in a year some cop in his entourage has died.

20. marisacat - 27 August 2007

Such talk alarms Arthur Levitt Jr., a former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, who started on Wall Street years ago as a partner with Mr. Weill in a stock brokerage firm.

Mr. Levitt has publicly lamented the end of Glass-Steagall, but Mr. Weill argues that its repeal “created the opportunities to keep people still moving forward.”

Mr. Levitt is skeptical. “I view a gilded age as an age in which warning flags are flying and are seen by very few people,” he said, referring to the potential for a Wall Street firm to fail or markets to crash in a world of too much deregulation. “I think this is a time of great prosperity and a time of great danger.”

I remember when leavitt spoke out against it. Not forcibly enough.

he also seemed really anxious to catch young underage traders on the fmaily computer.

21. brinn - 27 August 2007

*sigh*

I was just remarking to the spouse on the way home from the bus stop that the $2.59/gallon gas [and dropping like a stone] portends nothing but doom for the US economy — if gas falls below $2/gal. by the end of the year, we are well and neatly screwed. Most Americans will not make the connection until it is far far too late.

$7 broccoli, anyone?

22. Marie - 27 August 2007

Weill has always been a nasty piece of work. Would guess that the number of workers who have been screwed by that man over the years is at least if not much larger than the victims of Ken Lay.

23. BooHooHooMan - 27 August 2007

“Why men’s rooms? Knock it off in the men’s room.”

Tucker Carlson on Craig inmbroglio.

24. D. Throat - 27 August 2007

Brinn my mother nearly fainted in the store when she saw a sack of potatoes for over $7… she ended up just buying 3 individual ones.

25. Shadowthief - 27 August 2007

I can’t believe Senator Craig didn’t enlist the services of a male prostitute. They’re all over Washington, D.C. Soliciting men for oral sex in the loo? That’s just tacky.

26. brinn - 27 August 2007

D. Throat — while I’ve got you here, Citigroup is mostly owned by Saudi interests, is it not?

Something about the past 24-48 hours has all of my neurons firing in a most tin-foil-y way, but I’ve been too busy with school starting for the boys to actually do any research….

Food and water. Water and food. Stagnant wages, hyper-inflation….I got two hours of sleep last night, things running ’round in my head.

27. brinn - 27 August 2007

PS Re: the nearly fainting at the grocery store? The husband has done the shopping for the past 4 years, so this I am spared… ;)

28. wilfred - 27 August 2007

#19 Bush is toxic, people seem to die around both he and Laura. That is when he is not directly responsible, like when he starts a war based on lies. The rest just do horrendous things for him and pay the price with their public reputations.

He’s the real-life embodiment of Damien in “The Omen”.

29. Revisionist - 27 August 2007

Its a good question really BHHM.

Notice all these guys are over 50. Its the old closeted gay culture. They could easily get a private hustler or go to some vdeo shop or go online but they get turned on by the bathroom thing I think. They like bveing bad. Unfortunatly the behavior of all these old closeted fucks taints the entire gay community.

Personally I think Tucker and Willy Gist are bumping nasties. Tucker glows whenever he si on

30. Shadowthief - 27 August 2007

Citigroup is the world’s largest corporation and has an estimated of $2.2 trillion in assets. Saudi stockholders such as Prince al-Waleed might own a lot of stock (al-Waleed’s worth about $10 billion and half of that is in Citigroup stock), but the company’s too damned big for any one person to “own” it.

Al-Waleed Bin Talal is the largest individual stockholder in Citigroup according to the company’s financial disclosures and according to Weill himself.

31. Revisionist - 27 August 2007

Shadow thief… do a search for George Michaels interview with SKY after he was busted with that old ugly dude. he starts saying “its our culture”. he is a celeb an could get young buff guys for free.

Its the bathhouse culture that spread AIDS so quickly.

32. brinn - 27 August 2007

Thanks Shadowthief — 2.2 trillion, there’s a number to keep me awake again tonight….

more beer.

33. BooHooHooMan - 27 August 2007

It’s clear some shit is about to surface (hello???) re voter caging .Rove and Gonzo roll as this lower profile story surfaces….

Link to NYT

Civil Rights Division Head Resigning at Justice Dept.

By PHILIP SHENON
Published: August 24, 2007

WASHINGTON, Aug. 23 — The head of the Justice Department’s civil rights division announced Thursday that he was resigning, the latest in a long string of departures from the department in the midst of a furor over the leadership of Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales.

The department said that the resignation of the official, Assistant Attorney General Wan J. Kim, had nothing to do with the recent controversies over Mr. Gonzales’s performance, and that Mr. Kim had been planning his departure for months.

His departure was announced on the same day that department officials confirmed that a senior official who preceded Mr. Kim in running the civil rights division, Bradley J. Schlozman, had also resigned.

34. ms_xeno - 27 August 2007

Well, if there’s going to be a crash, I’m going to use my ample free time to make everyone the appropriate custom-lettered “Clintonville” signs to hang up– er, you know where… everywhere…

35. Marie - 27 August 2007

Shadowthief, the net tangible assets of Citigroup are only $70 million. Banks count loans to customers as assets and customer deposits as liabilities. – Citigroup financials don’t lend themselves to a quick analysis — too complicated because of the insurance and brokerage components. So, assets alone can be very misleading for companies like this. Inflating assets isn’t as difficult to do as some people think — part of the Enron and S&L stories. Anyway, if Citigroup has a large portfolio of non-perfoming loans, they could have problems.

Weill owns over 16 million shares – no other direct owners close to that amount and no Talal on the list. Will pull up the 10K and see if it has anything.

36. wilfred - 27 August 2007

Regarding Sen. Craig: Living on the down-lo is a very sad life. They are in big denial and it manifests itself in these very pathetic ways. I don’t blame him fully, society who judges gay men as evil, bad, dirty etc. ad nauseum has to take some of the blame too. They take a very natural human urge and pervert it into this by their vehement rejection of it.

#31 It wasn’t so much the bathhouse culture that spread AIDS, it was that for the first 4 years of the epidemic (1979-83), men didn’t even know there was such a thing as AIDS. Therefore they didn’t know to wear condoms, they never had a reason to before as they weren’t dealing with pregnancy so they passed the disease unknowingly and it increased exponentially in those years.

Only those of us who were openly gay even knew about the ‘gay cancer’ in the early ’80’s when it was starting to be discussed. The public in general never heard of it before 1983 to ’84.

37. marisacat - 27 August 2007

argh

I will hang a Clintonville sign over the toilet, commode, WC, john,

hell we will be living in abandoned port-a-potties soon.

I am just pulling up the standard staples pages from Safeway, last month things had gone up .50 – 1.00.

38. JJB - 27 August 2007

This is totally out of left field w/r/t what’s being discussed here, but I just decided to tell Matthew Yglesias what a pompous little jackass he is, and felt like sharing. Details here.

One of the very nice things about traveling abroad is that people like him, Josh Marshall, Kosolini, Duncan Black, Martin BooBooMan, etc., are nowhere to be seen or heard. Another is driving on roads that have no 4x4s, minivans, and virtually no SUVs. The most difficult adjustment I’ve had to make today as far as driving is not changing from using the left lane to the right (that’s amazingly easy), but dealing with the fact that those ludicrous oversized vehicles have to be slowed down to a crawl every time the drivers make a turn, or negotiate a sharp curve in the road.

Back home only 24 hours and already a BushCo. member has quit in disgrace and a prominent GOP politician has plead guilty to doing the sort of thing good GOPeratives condemn in others. Can’t wait to see what tomorrow brings.

BTW, there was a drive-by shooting in Liverpool last Wednesday that claimed the life of an 11 year-old boy. This sort of thing is so routine in our country that it barely gets any notice, but the MSM in Britain and Ireland devoted huge amounts of air time and ink to the story. Sky News at one point was reporting on virtually nothing else. There were the sort of talking head panels re this, and one very interesting thing, there were various spokespersons condemning what was described as an alarming large gun culture (remarkably puny by our standards) and there was not a single person making the sort of “guns don’t kill people, people do, if only there’d been other 11 year-olds packing heat this wouldn’t have happened, we need more guns in our society” argument we always hear whenever something like this happens.

I guess by the end of the week I’ll have forgotten how abnormal this country always seems after I spend any time somewhere else, just as the memory of how pleasant it was to fly in a large airliner that didn’t have ever single seat occupied (it was only 60-65% full, I’d reckon) will fade the next time I’m jammed like a sardine into an airliner. Could have sworn it was 20 years ago, when that was typical of the flights I used to take.

39. brinn - 27 August 2007

ah, JJB welcome back — every time I seem to be in danger of forgetting how abnormal this country is [haven't been out of it in quite some time] I just yank out pix, letters, emails and etc. from when I lived elsewhere….here’s hoping I can someday give my kids that option.

40. marisacat - 27 August 2007

JJB

made it over to little Mattie’s place. Good one!

gah. I remember when Negroponte was sent to either the UN or Iraq or … (the list is long, and Democrats are complicit, Clinton made him amb to the Phillipines, as I recall) Yglesias was in a tizzy that there was no organised opposition.

Quite upset he was.

Someone reminded him, we had all opposed the war(s) he did not. He had more energy for the “mopping up” killers like Negroponte than the rest of us.

All those who supported the war got the promotions and elevations (I mean to paid blogger status-schmattus). At the least they were what I call ‘eazy-squeezy on the war’. They’d prattle nonsense.

41. marisacat - 27 August 2007

This just in (email) from wilfred:

Olbermann reporting that Chertoff may go to interim AG.

If he does Bush may appoint Terry Johnson, his frat buddy from Yale and roommate at Philips Andover to head Homeland Security.

He has no legal or counterterrorism experience. He worked for Frito Lay. He also has a Bush doll on his desk at work.

42. lucid - 27 August 2007

Rev – HIV has never spread like a sexually transmitted disease in its 26 year history [as the first 18 'cases' occurred in 1981 when they invented the suveillance category GRID - renamed AIDS as the former was deemed offensive (as if the grouping of those 18 cases based on sexual preference wasn't offensive enough to begin with)]. It was not widely discussed much because by Dec. 31, 1984 [the year the HIV hypothesis was put out by press release - prior to any peer reviewed research had been published] there were a total of 3,665 deaths, 2,900 of which were from either PC Pneumonia or KS. PC Pneumonia was not new, we’d just invented the test for the fungus in 1980. KS is not a cancer [as originally thought - hence all the 'cancer virus' specialists like Gallo who got involved in the first place] it is a disease of the blood vessles that as of 1996 was no longer regarded as an AIDS defining disease [though some 21 other diseases that had nothing to do with AIDS originally had since been added].

The large scale death of AIDS patients began in 1987 coinciding with the introduction of high dosage AZT monotherapy & continued until 1993 when that practice ended. 2/3 of all US AIDS deaths are in that period. [Just look at the other CDC surveillance reports at the above link].

What explains AIDS deaths in the ’81-’84 period I think is five fold: the serial abuse of amyl and butyl nitrates [now known to cause KS & PCP], the prophylatic use of antibiotics to ward of other STD’s, the use of extremely harmful benzene based lubes that were marketed exclusively to the gay community and severely reduce immune function when entering the bloodstream, the widespread abuse of other inhalant drugs like cocaine, and powerful psychological factors that emerged as more men became ill.

The needless deaths since then – poison by prescription… In fact by the year 2000 the CDC stopped breaking down deaths by illness because 60% of all deaths are now from liver failure. I fail to see how that is an AIDS death.

There are thousands of healthy HIV positives living around the world that have never been ill, many for upwards of 25 years – the one thing they all have in common? They never took the ‘life saving medicines’.

Just my 2 cents on the issue.

43. Marie - 27 August 2007

lucid – nobody dies directly from HIV -all the early hypotheses about poppers has been debunked. The virus has a long incubation period and it does spread through blood to blood contact. A reason why women are so vulnerable when their partner is infected. We now know why gay men were so vulnerable in the years before it was identified. There are millions living with HIV and are ill, and the current cocktail of drugs does work. We don’t know how long they will work for any given patient because it’s too soon to evaluate. Of course long-term use of most drugs compromise the liver. A good reason why the HIV drug therapy shouldn’t be given to those who are asymptomatic.

The spread of AIDS conformed to public health models of invectious diseases. This one is preventable but that’s not so easy in many parts of the world.

———–

What I want to know is why two motorcycle cops serving on GWB presidential motorcades had accidents died within a year. Is this one of those occupational hazards that we never noticed before? Or is it new because the security procedures adopted for the fraidy cat are more dangerous for his detail?

44. Revisionist - 27 August 2007

There is an AIDS researcher on Coast to Coast tonite taht I think is in line with Lucid.

We orginally heard that poppers caused AIDS not that it was sexually transmitted. (Haitans were also in the first wave of victims) IIRC. They were very popular with several groups in the early 80’s. The smell today still takes me back to 1982 or 3.

45. Revisionist - 27 August 2007
46. liberalcatnip - 27 August 2007

Just popping in to drop this off: Clinton Wrong on Cancer Stat

Summary

Sen. Hillary Clinton used the wrong statistic in talking about cervical cancer today. She said that 500,000 women die from the disease worldwide each year. Only 250,000 do.

Anyway, I’m still having connection problems and kind of feel like crap (physically) on top of that. Someone SAY A PRAYER for me!!

(just kidding) :)

Carry on.

47. liberalcatnip - 27 August 2007

What I want to know is why two motorcycle cops serving on GWB presidential motorcades had accidents died within a year.

Their heads exploded when they found out who they were escorting.

48. marisacat - 27 August 2007

Candle Lighting and Novenas for catnip, at 10 PM in the Mary, Mother of God Chapel.

Overflow to Holy Redeemer Holy Water bar.

49. marisacat - 27 August 2007

Actually the site of today’s accident looked AWFUL, they showed it on local news.

He drove his motorcycle straight into a tree. Full Splat. Blood impression and stripped the bark off.

The news said the cars were going at a high rate of speed.

50. liberalcatnip - 27 August 2007

#48. must.get.back.into.coffin.

51. Revisionist - 27 August 2007

From DListed.

What Oprah Wants, Oprah Gets

Oprah Winfrey is hosting a fundraiser for Barack Obama on September 8th at her ginormous $64 million compound in Santa Barbara, CA. Oprah tried to arrange that her celebrity guests including George Clooney, Halle Berry, Beyonce, Jamie Foxx and David Geffen stay at the San Ysidro Ranch. The problem is the place was pretty much booked for a wedding.

Page Six reports that Oprah had her minions contact the bride to try and get her to move her guests to another joint. Sources say the bride and her attorney have not been budging even though Oprah’s bitches keep bothering the hell out of them.

It looks like they budged, a little. The hotel said, “The wedding party did cancel a few rooms – but we didn’t charge them a cancellation fee because there was such a demand for the rooms that weekend.”

Oprah wins again!!!! Her camp denied all of this.

You would think Oprah has like 100 rooms in her crib and could easily set some of those hos up. The thing is the party is being held outside and the rules state nobody can enter her home. Not even Clooney? Bitch isn’t kidding.

Don’t eff with Oprah. That bride is probably sleeping with the fishes!

52. marisacat - 27 August 2007

just a leeetle place with a BIG VIEW, is what Oprah has I guess.

No bedroom cottages….?

53. Miss Devore - 27 August 2007

50-sigh, I really did have a cool rosary once. the beads were lavender glass, rather elongated elliptical things. when my granny gave it to me for my first communion, I was slightly embarassed about it, because most of my class had gotten the goods–some gaudy blue rosary sold by the church and so I was an anomaly at the Moonie wedding that the First Communion was. Can’t remember when I lost it.

Anyway, that’s my excuse for saying a rosary for you. though was just overcome by this suspicion that there is an online rosary site.

let me czech….

I knew it, place the cursor over the bead, etc:

http://wordbytes.org/prayers/Rosary/index.html#begin

54. marisacat - 27 August 2007

Rosary at 11:00 pm

Processional afterwards to the Holy Redeemer Holy Water bar.

55. marisacat - 27 August 2007

Silber has a new one up

the last gasp:

[S]orry. I had to collapse to the floor in helpless laughter for a few minutes, and then slowly pull myself back up so I could get to the keyboard.

The attack on Iran will now almost certainly happen, probably in the next six months or so. All the rest, no.

Time for dinner and a drink!

56. Madman in the Marketplace - 27 August 2007

my little paeon to the nearly departed clown and the other clowns in the “OTHER” party pretending they caused it.

57. Revisionist - 27 August 2007
58. Sabrina Ballerina - 27 August 2007

I’m here for the rosary for Catnip.

I had rosary beads two, white, I think. My favorite Holy Communion photo is with a pet rooster I had. He was white so he matched everything. Although everyone was afraid of him because he was pretty vicious.

Revisionist, they’ve been begging for two days. Don’t know much about Darcy Burner.

59. Madman in the Marketplace - 27 August 2007

I used to like those little candy beads on a string, does that count?

60. Madman in the Marketplace - 27 August 2007

ACLU Challenges Prison-Like Conditions at Hutto Detention Center

On August 27, the ACLU announced a landmark settlement with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) that greatly improves conditions for immigrant children and their families in the T. Don Hutto detention center in Taylor, Texas.

The settlement was the result of lawsuits brought earlier this year on behalf of 26 immigrant children detained with their parents at Hutto. The lawsuits contend that the conditions inside the detention center violate numerous provisions of Flores v. Meese, a 1997 court settlement that established minimum standards and conditions for the housing and release of all minors in federal immigration custody.

Since the original lawsuits were filed, all 26 children represented by the ACLU have been released. The last six children were released days before the settlement was finalized and are now living with family members who are U.S. citizens and/or legal permanent residents while pursuing their asylum claims.

61. Revisionist - 27 August 2007

SB – That doesnt matter. In fact its unimportant. You can still give. at 7:34 p.m. PT, we’re 2,818 contributors, or 182 shy of the goal. Come on. Slacker time is now over! Darcy needs you. Next up is Celine Dion.

62. Sabrina Ballerina - 27 August 2007

Lol, Revisionist, I think I’ll pass!

Mitm, you probably could use those little candy beads so long as you don’t eat them in the middle of the rosary.

Btw, I can’t get over that prison – that anyone would treat children that way is abhorrent. It’s as though everyone became a monster since Bush took over this country. It’s just so disturbing.

*******

I think this will be happening more and more

A 30-year-old former Marine featured in a 1999 news photo from a refugee camp in Macedonia that circulated worldwide was responsible for killing himself and two others in a double murder-suicide, authorities said Monday.

Jason Robert Drake, 30, had several potential motives, witnesses reportedly told the Orange County Sheriff’s Office. He allegedly killed Ralph Gonzalez, a well-known 39-year-old GOP political consultant, and David Abrami, a 36-year-old attorney also active for the Republican Party.

Drake’s image was seen everywhere in a photo distributed by The Associated Press featuring him with two Albanian children in a NATO refugee camp, one tousling his short hair.

The shootings happened in Gonzalez’s house, where Abrami had been living since moving within the past year from Atlanta, a friend said.

Drake was allegedly carrying a firearm and backpack full of ammunition.”

http://www.macon.com/220/story/122586.html

I’m sure after five or six tours, when these guys come home, it will be so hard for them to adjust. I am so angry today about these criminals. The greed is beyond belief and they will not spend any of it on the troops they send to fight their wars.

63. Sabrina Ballerina - 27 August 2007

Cynthia McKinney was at the peace march in Maine near Bush’s home there.

McKinney Dismisses Pelosi; Embraces Sheehan Challenge

Cynthia McKinney, who served six terms as an often-dissenting Democratic congresswoman from Georgia, is as disenchanted with the cautious course of her old party as the millions of Americans who — through their low approval rating for the current Congress — are registering frustration at the failure of Democratic leaders in the House and Senate to aggressively oppose the war in Iraq and to confront the high crimes and misdemeanors of the Bush-Cheney administration.

McKinney confirmed the depth of her disenchantment at a rally Saturday in Kennebunkport, Maine, where thousands of activists gathered to protest at one of the president’s several vacation homes.

McKinney denounced both Bush and what she referred to as “an exhaustively complicit Democratic Party”

She does something other than talk. I hope she runs again, even if it’s only to annoy the McKinney haters on DK, especially Mia Dolan.

********

Oh, meant to say to Lucid regarding his info on the HIV virus. Choice Joyce agrees with him, I think. Last week she was assaulted by Musings, Dadanation and a few others and troll-rated into hidden comments. The histrionics were amazing. Not even willing to discuss it.

Today she was in hidden comments again. Don’t know why she bothered. Those people are rabid!

64. marisacat - 27 August 2007

I just remembered in 2005 and 6 that people would exhort for tips for Act Blue…commenting that they sent so and so 50.00 with ‘a 5 or 10 dollar tip for Act Blue’.

WTF?

65. Madman in the Marketplace - 27 August 2007

Sabrina, can I dip the candy beads into grape juice, pretend their unleavened wafers and take care of the mother AND the Son?

66. Revisionist - 27 August 2007

SB – I swear there was an entire diary on the subject… Thats AIDS deniers should be treated like and banned like “holocaust deniers”..

67. marisacat - 27 August 2007

hmm Hugh Hewitt is calling for Craig to resign. And RCP is running a link to a video of Craig from ’82. Earlier denials of some sort…

If anyone cares both links are at RCP, left column near the top. They have run the Craig related links all day at the top.

**************

Gee… in other news Sarko is threatening Iran. Full Stop. Not some pinky shake either. WIll post a link (iht), I was in the process when the computer crashed.

68. msxeno - 27 August 2007

No candy for me, sacred or secular. I’m holding out for take ‘n bake pizza. What can I say ? Life is glamorous beyond belief in the construction biz. [preen] But if it makes you all feel better, just think of it as a really big ornate communion wafer.

The more I hear from SB and others about this bullshit where people get “trollrated into hidden comments,” the better I feel about my ignominious banning from That Other Board years ago. Hell, if people hate you, they should be honest enough to say it. This ratings warfare shit is for cowards and goons.

69. marisacat - 27 August 2007

a red wine wash will clean old beads, btw.

70. msxeno - 27 August 2007

I get the distinct impression that in France the anti-war folk would call for a general strike and millions would actually do it. But perhaps I’m mistaken. :/

71. Madman in the Marketplace - 27 August 2007

well, they say the blood washes away so much …

72. msxeno - 27 August 2007

After reading Madman’s most excellent column, all I can visualize is hordes of Democratic hopefuls standing on the convention stage shouting, “FREUNLEIVEN !!”

(Sorry. It helps if you liked the Animaniacs.)

73. marisacat - 27 August 2007

Sarko on Iran in the IHT

PARIS: In his first major foreign policy speech as president of France, Nicolas Sarkozy said Monday that Iran could be attacked militarily if it did not live up to its international obligations to curb its nuclear program.

Addressing France’s ambassadorial corps, Sarkozy stressed that such an outcome would be a disaster. He did not say that France would ever participate in military action against Iran or even tacitly support such an approach.

But the mere fact that he raised the specter of the use of force is likely to be perceived by Iran as a warning of the consequences of its continuing course of action and by the Bush administration as acceptance of its line that no option, including the use of force, can be excluded

Calling the Iranian nuclear crisis “the most serious that weighs on the international order today,” Sarkozy also reiterated his position that a nuclear-armed Iran was “unacceptable” for France.

Although Sarkozy’s aides said that French policy had not changed, some foreign policy experts were stunned by the blunt, if brief remark.

“This came out of the blue,” said François Heisbourg, special adviser to the Foundation for Strategic Research in Paris and author of a forthcoming book on Iran’s nuclear program.

“To actually say that if diplomacy fails the choice will be to accept a nuclear Iran or bomb Iran, this is a diplomatic blockbuster.”

74. Madman in the Marketplace - 27 August 2007

god, I’d forgotten that bit on animaniacs.

loved that show.

75. Ezekiel - 27 August 2007

How times have changed. In the late 20’s, American agriculture was already in a depression. Small farm town bankers were playing the market trying to cover their losses and avoid foreclosing on their neighbors. When the crash came, a lot of these bankers killed themselves because of the shame, even though at least some of them had probably put humanity above business.

Won’t be much shame this time around.

76. Ezekiel - 27 August 2007

And I hope the French people do what they have historically done quite well. Maybe they can show Americans how it’s done.

77. lucid - 27 August 2007

all the early hypotheses about poppers has been debunked.

Where? After it was determined that KS wasn’t caused by ‘HIV’ the medical establishment scrambled to claim it was caused by HPV8 – a ‘camel herpes virus’ which has no remote basis in scientific fact. On the other hand there is clear evidence that serial popper use causes KS. Where exactly is it shown that serial popper use doesn’t cause KS? Given the biological action of poppers, I honestly can’t see how they don’t cause KS.

The virus has a long incubation period and it does spread through blood to blood contact.

Which has extended from 2 to 5 to 10 to 15 to 20 years. I would also love to see a study in which this supposed virus has been isolated in cell free form [which would be necessary for transmission] in blood and fluid. It hasn’t. In fact, if it had, we would have ‘gold standard’ tests for the virus, while to this day we stick with the Gallo ELISA and derived Western Blot, which are both antibody tests, testing for proteins that are ubiquitous in all human beings. If the blood wasn’t diluted about 400 times, everyone would test positive for HIV.

Furthermore, if you believe in virus infection, you should know that that viremia is required – in which the virus is active and easily isolated from blood and fluid. This never exists within AIDS patients. In fact, there is no evidence in most HIV positives of anything viral. And this was true of the original sample upon Gallo did his remarkable science fiction. 34%… 34% of clinically diagnosed AIDS patients in the study showed any evidence of a supposed retroviral particle that he stole from Luc Montagnier.

To this date, there has been no pathongenisis confirmed for this supposed retrovirus, after spending more money than on any disease pervious. And yet the people who live, stay completely out of the system, and the people who die buy into it.

And if you want to see how ‘good’ the epidemiological models are, just look back a couple of months where I linked both the 2005 mortality report from the South African government [which has the best mortality statistics in all of Africa] and the accompanying UN report. 14,500 AIDS deaths on the former, 360,000 AIDS deaths on the latter [which actually outstripped the number of people dead in the country that year].

Furthermore, if this was a sexually transmitted disease, it would not discriminate agianst women. However, over 80% of all AIDS deaths in this country are still among MSM’s & IV drug users. Gonerrhea doesn’t disrciminate like that. Chlamydia doesn’t dioscriminate like that. In fact those numbers consistently increase in the US, while HIV doesn’t. While AIDS deaths continue to diminish. How is it that a sexually transmitted virus remains at estimated constant levels for 20 years [or reduced as the case may be], while all other incidence of sexually transmitted diseases increases?

Sorry, ranting.

78. marisacat - 27 August 2007

In the run up to war… I mean what could we do. The Clay Theatre now a Landmark Theatre on Fillmore, which has been a refuge all my life, well they ran midnight shows of Dr Strangelove.

These days maybe they better run midnight shows of that Gordon Gekko character, Greed is Good, I forget the title.

the last year I worked, we had had a good very conservative partner handling ERISA (covers 401K regs) the best sort … conservative Mormon, but a caretaker. We were in Vanguard, offers conservative to moderate risk mutual funds. Low fees, a good choice…. he got up and walked out one day, left everything, his penny stashes his contact lenses, everything. they moved to some mountain state and he taught law.

We got in a reject from several law firms to replace him. They got him cheap. what a fucking blowhard. I had to match his office walls to the Hillsborough house main room, a house I knew he could not afford.

In a few months (this was winter to spring 99- 00) we were moved to charles Schwab for our 401K accoutns, who was a client (I mean both firm and the person) of the firm. Schwab is an asshole.

And it was access to wide open accts. You could play the field iwth your retirement funds.

Some people did, big time.

Some of us were pretty sure money had changed hands for the firm’s 401K accts to be switched over. Money was going to go down the drain…

79. lucid - 27 August 2007

Mcat – Defined benefit plans aren’t much better today. Although they are insured by PBGC, that hasn’t stopped most major defined benefit plans from going ostrich & leaving either employees or the federal government with the bag…

These are people that are ‘guaranteed’ 70-90 percent on their salary once retired.

I ostensibly run one of those. And we get shafted more and more, as the mega-corps fold. It’s not just the people shafted out of their pensions, it’s the small businesses shafted out of offering one.

80. lucid - 27 August 2007

I should have said ‘once vested and retired’.

81. supervixen - 27 August 2007

Funny stuff emailed to me. Bold-face emphasis, and italics, mine:

Individual priests or nuns may be ignorant of the (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:marykk

RCC’s official stand on abstinence within marriage. You’d be surprised how many of them are ignorant of all sorts of doctrinal issues. Undoubtedly some have provided incorrect information to their students and parishioners. If the parish priest counsels a couple that it is the duty of each partner to comply with any demand for sex by the other or be guilty of committing sin, that priest is teaching error. Abstinence is never a sin. It can be a marital defect, but it is not a sin.

by Involuntary Exile on Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 04:21:14 PM PDT

Right on target (0 / 0)

In college, I took a class from one of the Vatican’s ghostwriters on this topic. He was, even then in nineteen seventy (cough mumble) aware of such possibilities as rape within a marriage, or the fact that one spouse might come home drunk and the other not be interested at that moment. He made it clear that there was no obligation for anyone to submit unwillingly. (Not that marital rape is anything new, mind you, but it wasn’t recognized as a crime until well after that)

[O, behold those incredibly advanced Vatican "Ghostwriters", even in the NINETEEN SEVENTIES one of them had figured this out]

by marykk on Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 08:11:17 PM PDT

You and I must be in the same age cohort and both (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:marykk

products of RC higher education. For me, it was RC women’s colleges run by Franciscans (an obscure order colloquially called “black Franciscans” for their black, as opposed to brown, habits) and BVM’s. Not to mention that the first great love of my life was a former Trapist monk [well, there's your problem] whose primary social group was composed of priests, nuns, former priests and former nuns. Discussions on Catholic doctrine was everyday fare, more common than discussion of politics or current events. I suppose that’s a bit unusual for someone not actively studying theology, and even more so for someone who was brought up in a fundamentalist Baptist household.

by Involuntary Exile on Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 02:20:42 PM PDT

LOL (0 / 0)
I was educated by Benedictines through high school, then on to Loyola and the Jesuits, back when men were men, and women wore habits.

by marykk on Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 09:09:14 PM PDT

Crazy fuckers.

82. marisacat - 27 August 2007

yes someone emailed some of that thread to me as well.

I stay away from the devout. They always bored me…

83. lucid - 27 August 2007

Sounds like my upbringing SV – but I don’t hink I turned out so bad… Despite my not really being ready to deal with sexuality until I was about 23…
;)

84. marisacat - 27 August 2007

I don’t know if anyone else needs a laugh… but … one more black suit, for the road.

85. marisacat - 27 August 2007

Just hearing Bush again:

Al-ber-TOE was impeded from doing his job.

Oh if only.

86. D. Throat - 27 August 2007

Interesting interpretations of Sarkozy:

NY Times is reporting that French President Nicolas Sarkozy has just said if diplomacy does not work that the choice would be between “the Iranian bomb or the bombing of Iran”

“A nuclear-armed Iran is for me unacceptable,” Mr. Sarkozy said in a speech to France’s ambassadorial corps, stressing the urgency of finding a negotiated solution. “This approach is the only one that would prevent a catastrophic alternative: the Iranian bomb or the bombing of Iran.”

Mr. Sarkozy stressed that such an outcome would be a disaster and did not say that France would ever participate in military action against Iran or even tacitly support such an approach. But the mere fact that he raised the specter of the use of force is likely to be perceived by Iran as a warning of the consequences of its continued course of action.

Although Mr. Sarkozy’s aides said that French policy had not changed, some foreign policy experts were stunned by the blunt, if brief remarks. “This came out of the blue,” said Francois Heisbourg, a special adviser to the Foundation for Strategic Research in Paris and the author of a forthcoming book on Iran’s nuclear program. “To actually say that if diplomacy fails the choice will be to accept a nuclear Iran or bomb Iran, this is a diplomatic blockbuster,” he said.

This link does not require registration: Le Monde (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
gnat

Nicolas Sarkozy : “Un Iran doté de l’arme nucléaire est inacceptable”

“An Iran equipped with nuclear arms is unacceptable”

A sample, including the key quote:

Le président français, qui s’est entretenu le 11 août aux Etats-Unis avec George Bush, réitère à propos de l’Iran “l’entière détermination de la France dans la démarche actuelle” des grandes puissances “alliant sanctions croissantes, mais aussi ouverture, si l’Iran fait le choix de respecter ses obligations” en suspendant ses activités d’enrichissement d’uranium. “Cette démarche est la seule qui puisse nous permettre d’échapper à une alternative catastrophique : la bombe iranienne ou le bombardement de l’Iran”.

The French President, who met with George Bush in the US on August 11, reiterated regarding Iran “the complete determination of France to the current initiative” of the great powers “uniting in increasing sanctions, but also opening, if Iran makes the choice to respect its obligations” in suspending its activities of uranium enrichment. “This initiative is the only one which can permit us to escape a catastrophic alternative: the Iranian bomb, or the bombardment of Iran.”

45% of Americans for impeachment of George Bush, 54% for Dick Cheney. ARG Poll

by dconrad on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 04:09:15 PM PDT

Germany:

es, you are! (0 / 0)

here is how german tv station ARD is quoting Sarkozy:

Das machte der französische Präsident am Beispiel Iran klar. In der Auseinandersetzung um die iranische Uran-Anreicherung stellte er sich deutlich hinter die EU-Strategie. Ein Iran mit Atomwaffen sei für ihn “unvorstellbar”. Deswegen unterstütze Frankreich die derzeitige Strategie von immer schärferen Sanktionen – “aber, sofern der Iran seinen Verpflichtungen nachkommt, auch die Strategie der Öffnung.” Es wäre eine Katastrophe, so der Präsident, sollten am Ende nur die Alternativen stehen: iranische Bombe oder Bombardierung des Iran.

Translation: It would be a catastrophy if [after following the european strategy of carrots and sticks] the alternative would be in the end between an Iranian bomb, or bombing Iran.

What is a man without his mobile phone? The answer is here:www.pdanews.de

by MarcTGFG on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 02:10:40 PM PDT

87. D. Throat - 27 August 2007

Spamikopita

88. lucid - 28 August 2007

I should addend that… My first real sexual experiences were with men, because the idea of sexual experience with women, despite my many years of separation from the church, were so over-conceptualized, that it was much easier to suck a dick than emotionally deal with a sexual relationship with a woman. This is why I always fell in love with lesbians as a teenager – a deferred sexual relationship.

I know that sounds exceptionally fucked up… but whatever. I realized at a certain point that I wasn’t remotely attracted to penises, and needed to overcome the inanity of my youth.

Oh christ… I’m still a brain with a body wondering what to do.

89. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

Told-ja they are a hell of a lot of lurkers here:

bonddad never posts tip jars (11+ / 0-)

You just have to wait until he posts a response to someone else and tip him then.

Who is a Nazi? -6.38, -6.00

by wiscmass on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 04:57:36 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

*
It’s a pity, too, because he always (18+ / 0-)

deserves a lot of love for making this stuff comprehensible.

“Fighting Fascism is Always Cool.” — Amsterdam Weekly, volume three, issue 18 (-8.50, -7.23)

by Noor B on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 06:19:28 PM PDT

[ Parent ]
o
rec his comments (3+ / 0-)

Bondad will leave at least a few comments. rec/tip every single one, if you want…

by MJ via Chicago on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 06:42:54 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

90. lucid - 28 August 2007

Sorry – I’m being Elise again. Nite vipes.

91. marisacat - 28 August 2007

new thread

LINK

92. msxeno - 28 August 2007

lucid, you didn’t brag nearly enough about your fabulous bod. Afraid there in 0% danger of anyone confusing you with the divine/terminally vapid Ms. Harding. Better luck next time. ;)


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