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Thread… 25 September 2007

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Iran, WAR!.
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    Bugsy - Toronto - Canada - anti-war graffito - 2004

by Bugsy – Toronto Canada – anti-war griffito – 2004 – link to larger version

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Pepe Escobar is up in Asia Times with a take on Mahmoud does NYC…

The new “Hitler”, at least for a while, has lodged in a prosaic midtown Manhattan hotel. Contrary to a plethora of demonizing myths, this Persian werewolf did not evade his abode to eat kids for breakfast in Central Park. Instead, he turned on a carefully calibrated public relations charm offensive. Whatever his polemical views, for a now-seasoned head of state like Ahmadinejad to turn astonishing US disinformation on Iran, the Middle East and US foreign policy for his own advantage ended up as a string of slam-dunks.

Articulate, evasive, manipulative, the Iranian president – even lost in translation – was especially skillful in turning US corporate media’s hysteria upside down consistently to paint those in the administration of President George W Bush as incorrigible warmongers. Both at the National Press Club, via video-conference, and live at Columbia University, Ahmadinejad even had the luxury of joking about fabled Western “freedom of information” – as so many are still “trying to prevent people from talking”.

And a reference to oft repeated myth, as well:

To put in perspective the Iranian hostage crisis in the early days of the Islamic Revolution in 1979, he said one would need to “go back to US intervention in Iran since 1953″. His hosts preferred to change the subject. Humming non-stop in the background noise was the “wipe Israel of the map” myth. No one had the intellectual decency to point out that what he really said, in Farsi, in a speech on October 2005 to an annual anti-Zionist conference in Iran, was that “the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time”. He was doing no more than quoting the late ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini – hoping that an unfair (toward Palestine) regime would be replaced by another one more equitable; he was not threatening to nuke Israel. Warmongers anyway don’t bother to check the facts.

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ATimes picks up on the latest Tom Englehardt with a painful look back at Tommy Franks, Tenet, Myers and Bremer.  This on Bremer is worth pulling out of the pain of reading again about thsoe horrible men, esp as Blackwater walks free in iraq, a week off for killing 11:

When it came to the freedoms of Western occupiers (or liberators, if you will), including armed mercenaries, however, Bremer achieved a true medal-snatching feat. He in essence turned that Baghdad clock back to the 19th century and made that “time” stick to this very day. On the eve of his departure, he issued a remarkable document of freedom – a declaration of foreign independence – that went by the name of “Order 17″ [1] and that, in the US mainstream media, is still often referred to as “the law” in Iraq.

Order 17 is a document well worth reading. It in essence granted to every foreigner in the country connected to the occupation enterprise the full freedom of the land, not to be interfered with in any way by Iraqis or any Iraqi political or legal institution. Foreigners – unless, of course, they were jihadis or Iranians – were to be “immune from any form of arrest or detention other than by persons acting on behalf of their Sending States”, even though US and coalition forces were to be allowed the freedom to arrest and detain in prisons and detention camps of their own any Iraqis they designated worthy of that honor. (The present prison population of American Iraq is reputed to be at least 24,500 and rising.) 

And then, of course, there was that “international zone”, now better known as the Green Zone, whose control was carefully placed in the hands of the Multinational Force or MNF (in essence, the Americans and their contractors) exactly as if it had been the international part of Shanghai, or Portuguese Macau, or British Hong Kong in the 19th century.

     Blackwater helicopter - Getty image - BW 9/06

Above all else, Bremer freed an already powerful shadow army run out of private security outfits like Blackwater USA that, by now, has grown, according to recent reports, into a force of 20,000-50,000 or more hired guns. [I just read Scahill use the figure 180,000 for over all mercs, private contractors in Iraq --- Mcat]   These private soldiers, largely in the employ of the Pentagon or the US State Department – and so operating on US taxpayer dollars – were granted the right to act as they pleased with utter impunity anywhere in the country.

More than three years later, the language of Order 17, written in high legalese, remains striking when it comes to the contractors.

Order 17 begins on private security firms with a stated need “to clarify the status of … certain international consultants, and certain contractors in respect of the government and the local courts.” But the key passage is this:

Contractors shall not be subject to Iraqi laws or regulations in matters relating to the terms and conditions of their contracts … Contractors shall be immune from Iraqi legal processes with respect to acts performed by them pursuant to the terms and conditions of a contract or any subcontract thereto … Certification by the Sending State that its contractor acted pursuant to the terms and conditions of the contract shall, in any Iraqi legal process, be conclusive evidence of the facts so certified …  

a longish snip, but more at the article…. 

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Comments»

1. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

For those who saw the doc makers that were on Democracy Now the other day, the doc premieres tonight in about a minute on HBO.

2. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

oops, can’t type … the Little Rock doc …

3. mattes - 25 September 2007

Sept. 2
defenseless women tasered repeatedly:

4. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

Thanks for the link to Escobar. He really should have a wider airing … and in a country less self-satisfied and self-deluding than this one, he would.

As for Bremer and the rest … I’m almost willing to give up on my atheism for a moment to bask in the though of them roasting in some hot flames of Gehenna, paying for their crimes against humanity. Alas, the only justice available is the justice created by humankind, and we seem to have given up on that idea, in this country, anyway.

5. marisacat - 25 September 2007

4 Madman

well they are all recipients of the Presidential Medal of Freedom. One of the benefits is reduced taxes for life. Because your service to your country has been so great.

I am actively working now on not caring. There is little I can do about any of it.

So, frankly, let the country burn. Or not.

6. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

I’m working on being like Elvis Costello.

7. Revisionist - 25 September 2007

elvis is my sad love music. he got me thru many a break up.

8. dkosser - 25 September 2007

Rev…7

re:got me thru _many_ a break up.

no shock there….

jesus, you prolly’ anti-Israel’d them to death!!!!!

date…”oh hi rev, nice to meet you”

rev: you too, Israel sucks right?

date: “uh, well, if I say yes will you suck my dick later”

rev: for sure!

alternate..

date…”oh hi rev, nice to meet you”

rev: you too, Israel sucks right?

date: “well, I’m for a two state solution”

rev: “get the fuck away, be gone!”

rev slams door, pops on elvis costello disc, feels sad, boo hoo

9. marisacat - 25 September 2007

I had just finished reading the Scott Horton piece in Harper’s (big snips of it in the Silber article) when I saw this, new, over at Silber’s…

A small snip from Silber’s own text, that fits the post above…

The Bush administration has “turned the Defense Department over to private contractors” — thus enriching certain huge and hugely influential nominally private companies in amounts of many billions of dollars. Not so coincidentally, the same private companies have numerous and intricate connections to many of those in government. The privatization of national defense also means that certain individuals in government have the ability to deploy not just one private army, but an entire series of private armies, to do their bidding, as may be required and for purposes those individuals will determine.

10. marisacat - 25 September 2007

dkosser

so how is the crush on your 7th grade teacher?

Seems to be your level.

11. marisacat - 25 September 2007

mattes has a diary up at PFF, on the tasering comment (YouTubes) from the last thread.

12. dkosser - 25 September 2007

yeah, mcat, all you “erudite” blowhards sure are makin waves in yer little pond here!

what’s that 7th grade expression? big fish in small pond…

ah marisa, “my level”, shit that’s funny …..

Headlines!!!!!

marisa pronounces herself “Judger of Levels” on these here internetz y’all. so it is decreed!

yer silly

aw eye like you anyways

befamscambutterscotchsundaesbaby!

haha!

13. Revisionist - 25 September 2007

What do yall know about Eric Massa?

14. marisacat - 25 September 2007

the leash is getting short dkosser.

You’re boring.

15. marisacat - 25 September 2007

Rev

massa is a former Republican. Run twice I think in NY-29, this will be third run (iirc), Military… he was early on endorsed by Clark and by Gene Taylor of MS, who has a high rating with the Chrstian coaltion.

Massa got heavy play at Dkos in 04/05.

Gee I wonder why he lost, he was such a favorite. He had permanent fluffers at Dkos.

16. dkosser - 25 September 2007

what leash?

what does that mean marisa?

yer not tryin to discourage me from posting here now are ya m?

you know,cause I blow a few holes in your standard warped version of reality which you spew here endlessly to noone but a few nuts on this negligible minor incarnation of a site

one question: is there only one mcat who runs this thing day and night?

17. outofwater - 25 September 2007

MC-Boring sums it up. If DK said something disagreeable but substantive it would be one thing, but this is another.

18. Revisionist - 25 September 2007

keep an eye on Tikrit…

U.S. forces killed three relatives of a tribal chief in eastern Tikrit, a source from the Joint Coordination Center in the city, said on Tuesday, VOI writes.

19. dkosser - 25 September 2007

outofwater,,,17

re: MC-Boring sums it up. If DK said something disagreeable but substantive it would be one thing, but this is another.

that was scintillating, fantastic, overwhelming, audacious and craptacular!

20. marisacat - 25 September 2007

16

is there only one mcat who runs this thing day and night?

that’s right, just one. Not like it is a big operation.

21. dkosser - 25 September 2007

alright,

I like how you leap to the defense of your loyal posters,,,

see ya mcat

22. Revisionist - 25 September 2007

just read his bio — he’s perfect ex republican career military. served under clark as his aid.

are they just trying to make the party less wimpy with all the daddies. because the manlyness of the men is not why the party is wimpy.

23. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

Massa is one of the trojan Republicans. the sort that I was banned from Little Orange Footballs for pointing out. He will sel out, sell out minorities, sell out GBLTerd folks … he’s all about the military and death and destruction. He’s Webb with even less integrity.

24. marisacat - 25 September 2007

Rev imo they are crafting a New Dem/Bloooo dog congress for selling all the wars of the future. Gonna outBush Bush, imo.

The Patrick Kennedys and Massas and Hacketts (who was too much trouble in the end, LOL) and so on, are quite important for that plan.

Webb and a few others. Sestak. And they have the non mil wimps on board, from McNerney to Hodes… and so on.

Onward Baby Blue Christian Soldiers.

As Howard told Land, ”Democrats are pro life”.

25. BooHooHooMan - 25 September 2007

#23LOL MadBANNED!
I had never seen that particular piece of petulance.

Ah yes, Markos and the power of the majority

have fun wielding it

26. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

New LSF piece up

Little to Celebrate

27. Revisionist - 25 September 2007

You should post about him at PFF. We should do a Dont ActBlue series when they start swiping the credit cards

28. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

BHHM … wow, I’m not as infamous as I thought I was …

*** sulk ***

It was a long time coming, frankly, and I’m not sure why I kept pushing. It was pretty clear that the site was in the party’s pocket pretty early into the ’04 contest. I guess I still believed that this country could debate itself out of the coming meltdown.

I don’t anymore.

29. Miss Devore - 25 September 2007

ah “Cuban Heel” was one of the great ones at dk, where kos climbed down from his lofty fp to eat the prepared carcass.

30. supervixen - 25 September 2007

dkosser:

you know,cause I blow a few holes in your standard warped version of reality which you spew here endlessly to noone but a few nuts on this negligible minor incarnation of a site

Oh yes. They all bash this site in the same terms (nobody wants to read it, it means nothing, it’s irrelevant, etc.) but they can’t stay away. They are compelled to read it and they can’t stop talking about it.

31. Revisionist - 25 September 2007

I’ve resisted entreaties to ban you from a lot of people, not just Armando. But seriously, calling Tester and Kaine “Republican Trojan Horses” is my last straw.

wow. just wow. dude you were really banned. this is my favorite banning. ever.

32. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

thanks miss devore … as I read it again, I think I was largely proved right by the behavior of both dkos AND the donklephant party since.

I just wish that I hadn’t been.

33. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

thanks, revisionist.

34. marisacat - 25 September 2007

I know wee kos dirtied his hands with madman.

And tho I know it is CW – at Dkos_ to say hrh was autobanned, I do think Kos banned her as well.

wilfred and I were banned by DH, I think. He and Hunter were on duty that weekend, it seemed.

The big question over there had been “how to deal with the LSF problem”…

LOL… you HAVE to laugh.

35. Revisionist - 25 September 2007

i lost my post earlier.

hrh’s was like an elizabethan execution. they toyed with her in the tower hoping she would beg for her life. very mary queen of scotts.
it was long and drawn out.

36. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

I still find it funny that there was an “LSF problem”.

Geez, we just asked questions, raised issues, pushed against the common narrative. Why is that so threatening?

Not very pwogwessive of them …

37. Miss Devore - 25 September 2007

goddess, it was a depressing day today–there will be no oversight whatsoever, the vaunted subpoena power of the congressional “party in power” means nothing. somehow Blackwater will be covered under executive privelege. but the inside Dems must be hopping up and down like chickens over their big winnin’s in ’08. completely blind to the depth to which this country has sunk.

you’d think with the push to coronate Hillary, at least her competitors could chart out an opposition. Instead, they are all her “best men”

38. supervixen - 25 September 2007

MitM, I guess you didn’t get the official memo: “DON’T Question Authority”.

39. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

Blackwater wouldn’t be covered under a REAL party’s questioning … but we have only one party, and it loves its imperial war.

It ‘s all falling apart, and everyone is fine with it, and that goes for the economy too.

40. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

SV … as I’m sure you’ve noticed, I don’t play well with authority.

41. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

Send the Democrats a Message: Join Cynthia McKinney and Me and Be a Quitter!

So all Bush has to do to promote a Republican victory in the 2008 elections is keep putting forward outrageous bills, keep expanding the war, perhaps to include Iran, and keep undermining the Constitution. The Democrats will enable or sign on to each horrible act in turn. And with each such shameless action taken by the Democratic Congress, they further enrage 2008 voters.

The Democrats, under Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (surely two of the sorriest excuses for leaders that Congress has had in modern history), simply don’t get it. They don’t realize they’re being played for suckers and losers. And they don’t even realize that they are alienating their base.

Which brings us to what needs to be done.

The Democrats in Congress, and at the head of the party, need to receive a serious wake-up call. Since they’re clearly too dumb or too out of touch to realize what’s happening, we need to send them a message they can’t ignore—the political equivalent of a car bomb.

I’m talking about mass resignations from the Democratic Party, with every person who resigns and becomes an independent or who changes their registration to a third party sending a message to the DNC explaining why he or she is quitting.

It starts small with a few people here and a few people there, but as Arlo Guthrie once put it, pretty soon we’re talking about a movement, and you can join it right here!

A couple of months back, I set up an email address for people to register at, and listed it on my website. To date, over 600 people have mailed in saying they are quitting the Democratic Party until Democrats in Congress begin impeachment proceedings against Bush and Cheney, and until they cut of all funding for the Iraq War.

Now it’s time to really kick this campaign into high gear.

A few days ago, Cynthia McKinney, the gutsy and outspoken former congresswoman from Georgia who filed the first and so far only bill of impeachment against George W. Bush in the waning days of the last Congress, called me at home to say she wants to sign on. That’s a nice start to the campaign!

You read it first here: Former Rep. McKinney Quits the Democratic Party!

42. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

Mystery surrounds deaths of Minot airmen

Six members of the US Air Force who were involved in the Minot AFB incident, have died mysteriously, an anti-Bush activist group says.

43. marisacat - 25 September 2007

ABC on the fundraising spin from Obama and Clinton camps. They have to report Q3 on Oct 15

44. marisacat - 25 September 2007

IOZ…

know the feeling…

8)

45. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

President Evo Morales is on Daily Show tonight.

Oh, if only we’d open ourselves up to the possibilities … we might save ourselves from our coming humiliation.

President Morales: I understand that we all have rights. It’s not just professionals and intellectuals who can become President. People who have other experiences, who have a working life as well, can also become President. Therefore indigenous persons can become President

Jon Stewart: In Bolivia

everyone laughs (madman sobs)

Jon Stewart: In America, it’s a little rigged.

President Morales: So if it’s rigged, something needs to be done to change that!

Maybe some American politicians should take some lessons from a Bolivian farmer.

46. marisacat - 25 September 2007

well Mahmoud gets on my nerfs… bt he summed it up for Charlie [Rose] last night,

we have a dictatorship of the parties.

BINGO! Thank you, Mahmoud!

I though Bollinger was shameful… and so was Rose.

God damned fucking rubes. I was ashamed of both of them.

47. BooHooHooMan - 25 September 2007

Bowers contacts must be made from Coke Bottles.
This is hillarious. from
“Governor Bill Richardson’s Online Ops Team”

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/25/19531/9816

Bowers apparently was impaled with a sofa spring up his ass, delivering a fourth grade Mr Magoo reading of the cue cards..
Richardson’s people should at least be told Bowers and Stoller have no juice online….Bowers looked absolutely ridiculous though and will be eaten alive on Youtube

48. marisacat - 25 September 2007

Bowers looks like a beady eye’d lunatic. And Stoller and Armstrong look like, geesh, CON MEN.

Duncan Black looks like a vagrant teacher… and Kos looks like a sci fi changeling, lost in space. Or mesmerised by the luggage carrousel.

What a tawdry bunch.

not even starting on the third string, the FDLs and so on.

49. dkosser - 25 September 2007

Madman:

from dkos link

“I was in a job once where I had some influence on where products were placed. Part of the job was being wined and dined by the producers of that product. Free product, meals, events … part of the job.”

peanut butter and jelly?

jesus the stories you could tell huh? god what a “boring” existence that must have been, unless you had talent like say ,Miller, Mamet, then maybe you could turn it into something innaresting?

50. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

I am, like so many Americans, a mixture of peoples, in my case German, English, French and Lakota. To see this man on the Daily Show, a truly indigenous leader, offer real leadership, to live the idea that we are all in this together, it gives me hope.

Evo Morales: I know that we are different, not only within nations but among nations as well, those differences between the various nations must be respected as well, but what better among political leaders, Presidents, or with social movement leaders, than coming together to think about how we can support life and humankind? And it’s my sense, in this new millenium, it should be the millenium of life. And, from here, from Cuba, Venezuela, Europe, Africa … we need to create together to save lives and humankind. In recent days, at the United Nations, I’ve heard a lot of talk about global warming, climate change, they don’t say “why, where is all that coming from?” There appear to be few political leaders or movements who say, “where is all of this coming from?” Perhaps from a western culture? Perhaps excesses in industry, or perhaps because of excessive luxury or excessive consumption, and if we all think about humankind, then we need to think about how we can change that situation. And I personally know that there are Presidents and countries who send troops abroad to save lives, but there are also countries and Presidents who send troops abroad to take away lives. If we compare these two things, and the weigh these two things, we come to the conclusion that these policies must change and in this millenium the key guideline must be to save human lives. And please, don’t consider me to be part of the axis of evil!

I’m so ashamed by this man … so gracious in his condemnation of our country’s foreign policy. We don’t deserve such grace.

I hope my transcript on the fly caught it all.

51. marisacat - 25 September 2007

Koswhack.

had it with the tiny weenie rub down you give yourself here.

IT”S BORING.

Pulling the cord on you for a while.

And no you don’t get to say Good Night.

Bye.

52. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2007

LOL … missing the point, dkoswacker, but that isn’t a surprise.

53. lucid - 25 September 2007

But Mcat – MitM will miss the mentally challenged banter of Dkosser so much! ;)

54. BooHooHooMan - 25 September 2007

Just LMAO.

55. Revisionist - 25 September 2007

anyway…

watching he burns thing. i saw something once about how the war changed us culturally. You had guys who would never have left the middle of nowhere getting out into the world. many of them went thru ny and sf and got a taste of the city.

anyway. my favorite part was the japanese guy. talking about not knowing if he was colored or not when he was shipped to the south and had to deal with all the signs.

but he was white they told him.

56. marisacat - 25 September 2007

Rev

well that WAS the aspect of that war that was of interest… much of the world, for whatever reason appeared to be the motivation at hand, threw itself up in the air, chancing to fall differently than if the war/s had not happened.

I cuaght an hour again tonight. UNFORGIVEABLE, Burns editing is SLOPPY.

And he has such a sweetheart deal with the progaganda arm of CPBS that I am sure he does not come cheap.

Godammit. So sick of what dreck passes for something in this country.

57. Saint Shadowthief - 25 September 2007

I am an atheist.

I do not believe in the Autoban.

There is no proof of the Autoban.

Saint Armando, patron saint of Banishment, says there is an Autoban, and that we should praise Its wisdom.

I say there is no Autoban, only the hand of man.

As for the Iranian President: Oh, Mahmoud, your country is SO bombed. He came here to save his people from an American bombing run, but the die is cast. There is nothing he can do or say. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad could prostrate himself at the feet of Dick Cheney and weep for mercy and it would do nothing; he could swear fealty to Israel for this life and all subsequent incarnations and it would do nothing; Iran must be bombed, and bombed it will shall be.

The only question now is nukes or no nukes? Hmmmm…

I, for one, will not miss dkosser. He never got housebroken and was always peeing on the rug. And that rug really tied the room together.

58. Marie - 25 September 2007

wilfred – thanks for recommending “The Valley of Elah” – and will add a second recommendation for it.

59. Saint Shadowthief - 25 September 2007

Hm, English is my first language, but you wouldn’t know it from #57.

Mental edits will aid in comprehension.

60. CSTAR - 25 September 2007

Good links. Pepe Escobar insightful as always.

The presence of mercs in US military expeditionary forces should be no surprise; it’s the Milton Friedman/Donald Rumsfeld army. No rules.

61. CSTAR - 25 September 2007

Re the Burns thing. I watched about an hour on Sunday. Don’t we have enough of these ww2 docs? I think I’ve seen enough Victory at Sea episodes in my life.

62. Saint Shadowthief - 25 September 2007

PBS encourages discourages diversity in television:

PBS Supports Ken Burns Against Latinos’ Complaints

From New York Times, May 5, 2007
By Elizabeth Jensen

Public broadcasting executives are defending the right of the filmmaker Ken Burns to tell the history of World War II as he sees fit, in the face of escalating complaints and veiled threats of a boycott from Latinos who say his coming PBS documentary “The War” slights Hispanics’ contributions to the war effort.

At what participants described as an emotional meeting on Thursday in Washington, members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus asked corporate sponsors of the 14 ½-hour film — General Motors, Anheuser-Busch and Bank of America — for help in putting pressure on Mr. Burns to re-edit the film, which has been finished, to add stories of Latino contributions to the war effort.

Representative Joe Baca, the California Democrat who is chairman of the caucus, said in an interview yesterday, “We will not settle for separate but equal treatment in this documentary.” He said caucus members had told the sponsors, “We just hate to see what happened with national boycotts in the past.”

Noting that the film would not be shown until September, Mr. Baca said: “What happens between now and then will determine. If we don’t see anything, it could be a reaction.”

While many Latino groups have been active in asking for changes to the film, which Mr. Baca said he had not seen, the participation of members of Congress has raised some concerns among public broadcasters worried about improper federal interference in content. Yesterday the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, the entity that administers federal funds for public broadcasting and is charged with insulating stations and programmers from outside pressure, released a statement signed by the heads of PBS, National Public Radio, the Association of Public Television Stations and the corporation. It reminded Congress of the editorial independence that was guaranteed in the Public Broadcasting Act of 1967.

Mr. Baca countered that “the law does not prohibit Ken Burns from re-editing” his film, adding that the filmmaker should “get off of his own personal ego and say, ‘I will do it.’ ” He added, “All we are asking for is an accurate reflection of history.”

Patricia DeStacy Harrison, the corporation’s president and chief executive, who attended the meeting, said: “No one is arguing with the premise that the story must be told. But from C.P.B.’s standpoint, we have to honor the firewall.” Asked about veiled boycott threats, she said, “I think the way it was expressed was that, as individuals and as a group, they are going to have a long memory.”

The film, which chronicles the war through the experiences of residents of four United States communities, was not intended to be a comprehensive history, Mr. Burns said. He called it “a sort of epic poem and not a textbook.”

When complaints were first raised, Mr. Burns offered to include Latino stories, produced by his team and a Latino filmmaker, Hector Galán, in supplemental material that will follow the broadcast of the film. The material, which is in production, will also be included in the official DVD and reruns. Latino groups at first praised the plan but then rejected it.

In an e-mail statement, a General Motors spokeswoman, Ryndee Carney, said, in part, that the company recognized “the sensitivity and seriousness of the concerns expressed by the Hispanic community to Mr. Burns and PBS,” adding that “we strongly encourage all parties to continue discussions.”

Mr. Burns, who was not at the meeting, said he found it painful that the controversy was erupting over a film in which he explores an episode of American history that brought citizens together. He said he had received support from historians who have seen the film.

Mr. Burns said there was no chance that the film would be re-edited. “It would be destructive, like trying to graft an arm onto your child,” he said. “It would destroy the film.”

From: The New York Times

http://freepress.net/news/22985

That’s “diversity”, alright. The longer I watch PBS, da vorse it gets (ouch, sorry). I stop contributing to PBS years ago–it’s long ago ceased to be the Public Broadcasting System and has become the Propaganda Broadcasting System.

So the contributions of Latinos, who also fought and died for their country, are to be “tacked on” as a “supplement” to the effort of the Greatest Generation.

Oh, let’s just be honest for once, shall we, and say that it’s the Greatest Generation of White People, and have done with it. Racism is bad enough, but it’s especially bitter when washed down the throat with a big slug of hypocrisy.

63. marisacat - 25 September 2007

Burmese riot police use batons to try to break up crowds, including monks, at Rangoon’s holiest site, used as a rally point for protests.

For more details: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

64. marisacat - 25 September 2007

the whole thing is a joke. And IIRC it is Baca who barely has an Hispanic Cuacus due to being such a fucking shit, to the Sanchez sisters, among others.

Throw them all out. The Burnses and the Bacas.

Oh corporations moved in PBS decades ago. It ws a done deal but for the death throes, flapping about like a dying fish on the dock, in San Francisco, by 1970. And we moved into 2 decades of Brit crinolines.

More than 35 years ago.

65. marisacat - 25 September 2007
66. CSTAR - 25 September 2007

#42 Unbelievable! Is there some other source for this?

67. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

I just can’t watch another rehashing of WW2. Just how many times and in how many ways does it have to be portrayed? I wasn’t aware of the controversy with the PBS version but I did see the show listed and passed it by. Couldn’t be bothered. It’s not like the world has learned a helluva lot since then anyway. Maybe that’s the problem: people still need to watch the clips over and over again so they can finally figure out what the lessons about war actually were. Some people are incredibly dense, I guess.

68. moiv - 26 September 2007

#66

I ran across this the other night: Air Force Personnel Involved With Nuke Mishap In Minot Being Murdered?

As evidence of the conspiracy, the Citizens for Legit Government cite six news stories. The problem is that those stories don’t support their conclusions at all.

Keep in mind, as I go along, that the mishap happened some time the week before September 5th.

First up is this news story about Airman Todd Blue who died on September 10th while on leave in Virginia. The story doesn’t indicate how Blue died, or even if he was actually involved in the nuke mishap. It does say he was a “response force member” in the 5th Security Forces Squadron.

Second is this article from The Shreveport Times about an unnamed couple from the Barksdale Airforce Base dying in a traffic accident while riding their Harley. Their connection, I guess, is that the plane with the nukes on it went from Minot to Louisiana. There is no indication here, however, what the couple does on the Barksdale base. How the folks at Citizes for Legit. Government can use this as proof is beyond me.

The third story is from the KXMC website (my hometown television station and a website where I’m syndicated, just throwing that out there for full disclosure) and is about Airman Blue again. No mention of whether or not Blue had anything to do with the nuke mishap.

The fourth story is again from KXMC and is about an Airman named Adam Barrs who was killed in a vehicle accident on the outskirts of Minot. The problem is that this Airman was killed in July, months before the Nuke mishap which occurred around the end of August or beginning of September. Unless we’re going to also claim that the Air Force has the ability to see the future, I doubt Barrs was bumped off because of his involvement in the blunder with the nukes.

The fifth story is from the Bismarck Tribune and is about 1st Lt. Weston Kissel who was a bomber pilot at Minot Air Force Base. Again, however, the problem is that Lt. Kissel died in July. The nuke mishap took place in August or September.

The last story is about a Captain John Frueh who was stationed in Florida and was actually on leave in the Oregon/Washington area attending a friend’s wedding (he last spoke to his family on August 30th) when the nuke mishap in North Dakota. The dates are close, but Frueh could have conceivably been on some top-secret mission he couldn’t tell his family about, but that seems doubtful. As one who knows many people from the Minot Air Force Base who have worked with the nukes, it’s secret stuff…but not that secret.

This is what we have to sum up:

1. Two Air Force members who died shortly after the nuke mishap, one from Minot and one from Louisiana. One died in Louisiana, one died on leave in Virginia.
2. Two Air Force members who died before the accident, thus making it unlikely that they were killed in any sort of a cover-up conspiracy.
3. One Air Force member stationed in Florida disappeared in Washington/Oregon around the same time as the nuke mishap. His connection to the mishap is unknown.

Now compare those facts to what the Citizens for Legit. Government are claiming. There were five people in their articles, not six. Not all of them were from the Minot Air Force Base. Nothing in the articles substantiates that any of them were directly involved with the nukes in question (outside of two of them being stationed at bases which were involved). And while all five (again, not six) are dead, two of them died before the mishap even happened and one went missing around the same time it happened in an area 1,000 or so miles away from where it happened.

To say that these charges are patently bogus is an understatement. Still, it’s amazing what people will believe when they see stuff like this on the internet.

69. Marie - 26 September 2007

CSTAR #66 From what I’ve gathered this seems to be a rapidly spreading urban legend. Would be very cautious about repeating until a lot more facts are available. Right now they’re including a death that predated the missile shipment by weeks. FWIW in my opinion it’s crap.

70. marisacat - 26 September 2007

CSTAR

the deaths have been trickling in. First two, then one. Then anothre.

Now six.

Think it should be google-able as more than one link has been posted here, in the past few days…

71. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

Caught the Bolivian prez on TDS as well. I thought it was interesting that both he and Ahmadenijad carried the same basic message of human rights, peace and justice (despite Ahmad…’s other crazed rhetoric, theological references and the stark reality for some of his countrymen). At least those two are talking about actual solutions that don’t involve killing other people – which seems to be Bush’s preferred method of discourse. Bush uses his theology to push war and aggression – this “God is on our side” bullshit – while at least Ahmad… chose passages of peace. And he was also spot on with what he said about necessary UN reform. The security council is nothing but an arm of the US government.

72. moiv - 26 September 2007

Marie, a poster at Snopes agrees with you.

A1C Todd Blue was security forces, not a weapons loader. He may have been guarding the aircraft at the time of loading, but would have nothing directly to do with the load itself.

Capt John Frueh was weather – again, nothing to do with the loading of weapons.

Lt. Kissel died in JULY, before the incident even happened.

Sra Adam Barrs was a Communications and Navigation systems maintainer – he deffinately would have had absolutely nothing to do with a weapons load (conventional or nuke). He wouldn’t even be allowed in the area when weapons are being loaded!

And here is some info on the couple from Barksdale. SRA Clint Huff was also weather. Once again, he would have had nothing whatsoever to do with weapons loading.

A string of incidents with the only (very) tenuous connection being that all involved Air Force members. And six accidental deaths over a 3 month period is also not that outlandish, considering that there are roughly 300,000 active duty Air Force members.

ETA: Apparently, wearing a tin foil hat causes weak google-fu. IT only took me about 30 minutes to find the above info.

73. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

I’m concerned about the monks in Burma. Apparently, outside communication with the capitol has been virtually cut off although there are some underground communications channels open.

Police fire warning shots as monks defy protest ban

74. marisacat - 26 September 2007

The speeches at the UN lst year were wonderful as well. I ran the full text …of Morales think it was, and some of Chavez.

75. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

And the fainiting goat, fraidy cat, warmongering Dems are at it again I see – encouraging Bush and Cheney to go after Iran. Didn’t they learn ANYTHING from the Iraq experience? My Dog these Democrats are incompetent morons. And did they ever get that intel report they were promised on Iran? I still haven’t heard anything about that.

76. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

mcat,

I’ll have to catch up on the speeches since my intertubes connection has been spotty. I missed Bush’s (well, I didn’t actually “miss” it in that sense). His pronunciation cheat sheet was mistakenly posted online. lol

77. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

Ha. Waxman has accused Rice of interfering with the Blackwater inquiry. Get her under oath there, Henry. She’s always good for a few laughs.

78. marisacat - 26 September 2007

not sure my blood pressure can take CRose…

LOL Saud al Faisal and Tzipi Livni.

aggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh.

79. BooHooHooMan - 26 September 2007

I thought this was good

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2007/9/26/03242/1943/2#c2

Ahmadinijad ended up… (0 / 0)

looking like the smartest guy in the room at Columbia.

Bollinger blew his chance to really say something by opening hus fat yap and spewing hot air and vilification.

The crowds outside merely reinforced every view that the US is in thrall of Israel, and it’s powerful US lobby.

Mahmoud even garnered applause!

Mindless shouting over bombs and Busjost talking points literally stopped any talk about Iran’s human rights record which is frankly, terrible.

Cons will scream and spilk will jump on me, but I don’t care! We had every opportunity to corner Mahmoud on human rights and we pissed it away looking like fools!!!

Just like Bush…stupid to the last!

Today, 9/25/07, 3800 Americans, and untold Iraqis are dead, tens of thousands more maimed. What are YOU going to do today to help end the Bush/Republican war?

by boilerman10 on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 10:22:42 PM PDT

80. BooHooHooMan - 26 September 2007

It was close but no cigar. Bollinger was thinking endowent.
The unexamined presumption to righteousness is bothersomme, too….

81. marisacat - 26 September 2007

AFP report on Myanmar, monks, crack down… it does nto mention what one report I caught said, that Aung San Suu Kyi was removed from her home to prison – as part of the crack down.

So no idea if there is confrimation of that or not.

82. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

lol…thereisnoclue: electing Hillary will make David Brooks happy and we can’t have that! fear David Brooks. Fear him! (As if there aren’t a hundred other reasons not to elect her.)

What’s with these guys (like him and boober) and their obsession with what David Brooks writes??

83. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

#81. I heard that about her on CNN too, mcat, Maybe they’ll have something posted.

84. BooHooHooMan - 26 September 2007

Catnip while you here -did I offend you re the crocheted jock ref at pff??
I was joking, referring back to a thread at the end of last winter….

85. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

I can’t get the whole WSJ article because I’m not a subscriber but here’s a clip:

Wall Street Journal – 53 minutes ago

In another possible sign of a looming clash, a well-placed source said detained democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi had been moved to the notorious Insein …

86. BooHooHooMan - 26 September 2007

I’m sorry if it was hurtful…

87. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

Umm…no BHHM. I actually didn’t even see it. ;) And it definitely wouldn’t have offended me. Were you still waiting for me to send you one?

88. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

Well, gee, maybe I should see it now! (just kidding) lol

Don’t worry about it!

89. wu ming - 26 September 2007

the nterestin thing about the monk protests is that they have the ability to march, 20,000 strong, in defiance of martial law, precisely because they hold the key to legitimacy in that culture. this is the same reason why students have been involved in several protest movements, both in china historically and in america in the 60s, because governments were, at points in time, reluctant to beat the hell out of them or shoot them for fear that such actions would undermine the regime’s legitimacy.

even dictatorships depend to large degree on the passive support of the populace, the military or the professional or elite classes, to be able to function. if those people lose faith, the likelihood of being overthrown or undercut in some critical way is not insignificant, no matter how badly you can torture the political prisoners in your gulags or beat the proles with impunity.

that’s why the 2002-3 round of protests didn’t make a dent, because students and protestors just don’t carry the same cultural legitimacy than they once did. by kent state, white students were expendable.

so, the question goes, what groups would symbolically rob our own regime of legitimacy if it beat/tased/shot/teargassed them? where does our culture place the roots of legitimacy now? who are our buddhist monks?

i’m inclined to answer with military veterans, we’ve sunk that deeply into militarism of late. which leads pretty quickly into partisan violence and civil war, once both sides mobilize their vets for direct action.

lovely.

i hope the monks come out of this alive.

90. marisacat - 26 September 2007

I saw that Brooksie did a column on Hilarius today… and I just could not bear to read it. I probably voted for some asshole Democrats over 30+ years, but I sure will NOT vote for a Goldwater Girl.

Not not not.

BTW, sabrina has a diary at PFF, think she is pulling together various reports of the Minot related (or not) deaths. Peeder FPed it, so I won’t bother with a link, rides at the top

91. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

so, the question goes, what groups would symbolically rob our own regime of legitimacy if it beat/tased/shot/teargassed them? where does our culture place the roots of legitimacy now? who are our buddhist monks?

Sad to say but I think the only group left that fits that job description in America is children.

92. marisacat - 26 September 2007

wu ming

I have said from the beginning that it must rise FROM THE GRUNTS, from military families, spouses, widows.

The officer class cannot be trusted. IMO. They would surround and protect a coup and some of them would BOMB US. Esp the AF.

Citizenship was devalued as we moved to eternal war.

It must rise from the military families. No one elses’ voice matters in thsi god damned shit pile of a fucked trash heap of a fucked country.

I am so done.

93. marisacat - 26 September 2007

I don’t think children have any value in thsi culture. NONE.

The ultimate pawn. used at every level.

94. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

I don’t think children have any value in thsi culture. NONE.

Well, not to Bush and his ilk but any action taken against them is a protest-type of environment would most definitely draw the ire of the majority of Americans.

And for every military member or family member who speaks out, there’s another “loyal” Bush supporter right on cue to drown them out.

95. liberalcatnip - 26 September 2007

And it’s not just the Bush supporters, as we’ve seen with the demonization of activists like Sheehan over at dkos. So-called “progressives” are more than willing to shill for the war machine.

96. BooHooHooMan - 26 September 2007

LOL … Well since it’ IS cool …

97. marisacat - 26 September 2007

And for every military member or family member who speaks out, there’s another “loyal” Bush supporter right on cue to drown them out.

I agree with that…

And then there is silence.

The dirty secret is the 400K death benefit. Did not exist in Vietnam era… last I heard there was talk of extending it to grandparents. Also families of the maimed, some of them, seem to be getting hard cash help (jobs and whatever else) from the Defense industries that are raking in the bucks on the war.

Also overseas pay is not taxed for the mil in this war. 20K sign up bonuses the past 4 months. That has helped.

It will take years.

But ordinary citizenship post 9/11 has no value. Age of Terror, Age of security.

LOL we are all suspects.

so, good luck to those who re-up. The other problem is that America always fosters a growing underclass, of all colors.

I think we are stuck for decades.

98. marisacat - 26 September 2007

oh too funny…. because I would not read Brooks today, thinking it was on Hillary… I missed all that he wrote about Dkos.

Silly me.

99. marisacat - 26 September 2007
100. BooHooHooMan - 26 September 2007

I think Rangal was right from a tactical sense in the short term. Have a god damn draft. Have the whole fuckin country in uniform. The armchair Defense “Hawks” like Jason Melrath who don’t get the proverbial shit clubbed out of em will surely be disabused of their notions of the “nobility” of it all. I can think of a million ways to create esprit de corps or unity in a country that doesn’t involve killing people. Land a woman on the moon – (hell leave her there if it’s Hillary) build houses, levees parks, Museums.

In such peaceful civilian Progress’ absence though, you’d See attitudes change accompanied by a national military chorus as legions of puckering assholes react in unison upon hearing the “viability” of “limited nuclear engagement” coming to a theater of combat near YOU..

I have to say, I met some world class intelligent people in the service, well “bought in” to the theoretical underpinnings of armed forces in a democracy. Outside of those exceptions to the rule just scads of dumb-as-stumps crewcuts – Commissioned, NCOs didn’t make a difference. .

When you get to an Elephantine- sized headcount in uniform, you’ll see it dawn on people that mil worship for most has very little benefit except for a few…You mobilize a country on -(take your pick)- a war footing or Defense posture and you’ll see the placation over honorifics quickly give way to “Show me the money” and “where’s the fucking percs”. …

Which leads us to the reality that the generationally wealthy and the corporate class titans aren’t willing to pay for it. Wherein we meet the downside lost in the send off parties before shipping out….. Much Like the crimeless small town cop writing traffic tickets for his supper, a large standing Army must inevitably become a conquering Army to justify its existence. Smedley Butler DID have it nailed….

101. marisacat - 26 September 2007

I have an awful feeling they have it just the way they want it.

They, the great eternal they, get to bleat: Volunteer army…

much of the country goes on its way… and they will eventually have a military force bolstered with paras and militias, a recruitment stepped up in the colonies and vassal states… look at the Peshmergas we pretty much forced to fight in Anbar. not a lot, but enough to sully and strain what is already asunder.

al Faisal told Charlie Rose that the US had a ”moral obligation to put Iraq back together”. Charlie blanched, said it was ”a tall order”.

Thieves and murderers.

I think they have what they want. I say recruit harder with the god damned fucking xtians. Send the pro life off. More so than now.

Pretty much at the end, the country is not resusitatable for me. Finished.

102. BooHooHooMan - 26 September 2007

So what you have is the intentional polarization between soldier and citizen that Citizen Cat clearly points out. It must not ever be turned into the type of “one off” social compact that existed for 10, maybe 15 years after WWll. The craven use of ads and $$$$ directed at family influentials is DISGUSTING. Simply the systemic paying of “replacements” during the Civil War.

To keep our exploitive economy from slamming to a halt, it is a two pronged fight: This is a war fought for oil and the domestic platform to continue doing so…This perpetually divisive strategy of mil worship, cop worship, $$$ worship, Flag and lawdy Lawdy worship is crucial sustenance….

Astounding that a huge, secular, work-for-a living nation is just terrified of and terrorized by Jesus Freaks, Zionist Jews and Capitalists, the Johnny One Note Trio with their Chart Topping Hit: : Divide and Conquer.

So very simple we are as a people. So fat with the pork rinds come football season…

103. Sabrina Ballerina - 26 September 2007

Re the Minot deaths, I did discover almost right away that the article I used included statements from Citizens for Legit Gov. that were completely wrong.

They should have checked the dates of the deaths, as two of them occurred in July, before the incident. Still, there was preparation I’m sure, and I did find a link that said there was simulation in Aug. Not sure what was involved in that. But probably preparation for that also.

I think those two deaths were probably just tragic accidents. Then there was a married couple, nothing is really known about them yet either. So can’t really speculate on them.

But the other two, Blue, a 20 year old, his death is still under investigation. Rumors of suicide of course. But he was at Minot during the time of the ‘incident’. Lots of Internet rumors saying he might have been the whistle-blower, but that’s about it, just rumors.

I think Capt. John Frueh’s death is worth looking at, imo. I know he was not a pilot. But he was in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He was reported missing on Aug. 29, not found until several days later after his rented car was found.

His cell phone was last used on Aug. 30. Couldn’t find info on who he called. No info on when he actually died. I think he was found around Setp. 8 or 9 and the death is still ‘under investigation.

Interesting coincidence, his last call was on Aug 30, same day as the Nuked missile flight. So who knows, he could have been undercover, or it may be nothing.

Still, nothing is impossible – some of what has happened already I would never have imagined five years ago.

Not sure I’d call it all ‘tinfoil’ just yet. But then, we’ll probably never know the truth about anything.

Anyway, the more I looked, the more that original article became irrelevant. You would think they would at least have checked the dates of the deaths before making the claim they all occurred within 7 days of each other. So much for journalism.

Re Brooks, he really hates the ‘netroots’. As do many others, but often for different reasons.

Called them ‘bullies’ – lol! Well, they are. And he was right about them having no influence, but what else is new.

I would not be surprised if the Party does hate them. But imo, they bought them, just to keep then in line.

Edwards surely could not have forgotten Yrly Kos. He is a favorite on DK. Can’t remember now, but was it Brooks who wrote a scathing article about the ‘netroots’ after they slammed him for some interview he wrote about with a Dem politician without knowing that the Pol. had changed her mind after the interview. Accused him of lying, airc. Maybe it was someone else. They all seem the same to me, as I rarely read them.

Anyway, XT wrote about it on his blog at the time, about the nastiness of the blogs in general. They will do themselves in with their bullying sooner or later.

104. BooHooHooMan - 26 September 2007

Well Blackwater is sure a scary bunch. The founder, Eric prince, is SFSO, from Michigan Gooper biz winger royalty, via sisters marriage , in law relationship to DeVos Amway fortune.

The only difference is how we transport the campaign chests for these Fortune and Adventure seeking expeditionaries these multi level marketing marksmen… We effectively are giving these people royal grants and titles within the Crown’s realm…

.

105. Pancho Villa's Ghost - 26 September 2007

Let’s not forget that Blackwater is also wanting to build their Brownshits training camp on the US-Mexico border. Blackwater camp is another attempt to re-institute its black ops but this time it will be to militarize the border without going through congressional oversight or public debate. This so-called “training camp” will probably also function as an operational base. Don’t be surprised if Blackwater obtains government contracts to patrol the border, gradually edging out US agents and putting border security into the hands of a private army away from public scrutiny, which would mean, they get to run the immigration concentration camps.

106. marisacat - 26 September 2007

Sabrina

I saw that Stupid Asshole picked up the Marie and moiv comments here. At least you were gathering reports and notices, which is why I linked it.

I never see any harm in LOOKING at things. The so called activist group seems like a disinformation group frankly.

But that does not mean that among the six, or five or four, one is not of interest.

I leave it at that…. ;)

Armando warned Paper Tigress and I off a genuinely breaking story one n ight at Dkos (shots fired, people wounded at a prison in Bosnia under our control, but also with NATO forces, there was a whiff it was a gun fight over IRAQ war, we were in our element! Different reporters from AP, AFP and Reuters were at the hospitals and filing first reports…).

He told us to “be careful”.

LOL I nearly blew a gasket… ;)

107. marisacat - 26 September 2007

PV’sG

I agree. Paramilitaries all the way.

Time to get a gun. I took it VERY seriously when the NO cops took peoples’s guns away from them after Katrina.

108. marisacat - 26 September 2007

103

candidates moving to the center. I still say MoveOn and Dkos assisting in setting themselves up to be jettisoned in the GE. Fake coddling for a few weeks. OVer fast.

Edwards comment is very revealing. They want to please Brooks.

I am so done.

109. marisacat - 26 September 2007
110. Madman in the Marketplace - 26 September 2007

well, it is a FUN urban legend.

Sad about the monks … not a word about it on CNN this morning. Too much time talking about a fuzzy pic that might be the missing/dead english girl.


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