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On and on it goes… 28 September 2007

Posted by marisacat in Iran, Iraq War, Israel/AIPAC, la vie en rose.
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In Baquba, 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, American soldiers of Alpha Company of 1/38 Infantry Regiment ran along a street where they were carrying out a mop-up operation to search and secure the neighborhood. The American military is blaming Al Qaeda for the recent series of bombings.   [Photo: Alexander Nemenov/Agence France-Presse -- Getty Images]

How you get up in the morning in Iraq, at the close of another – the fifth – American summer of fire, blood, sandstorm and whatever else, and put rosy-hued clothing on a child you’ve managed to keep out of the line of fire… well, it boggles the mind.

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Landed on this link, following “iridescent cuttlefish’s” comment links in the thread  at Rigorous Intuition:

A war and its aftermath

A war with Iran, irrespective of how it started, would stretch well beyond a couple of days of strikes by US air-force and navy planes, and missiles against Iranian nuclear facilities (see ” The next Iran war“, 16 February 2006). There would also be attacks against four other sets of Iranian targets: air defences, air bases, missiles and command- and-control systems. Some of these would be targeted even before nuclear facilities were hit, partly to reduce the risk of US aircrew casualties (and hostages, a recurrent American nightmare in relation to Iran).

The US requirement to counter Iranian retaliation, especially by Revolutionary Guard units against Iraq and oil facilities in the western Gulf, means that its forces would have to attack numerous “forward bases” of the guard. This will involve a strenuous effort to severely damage transport and communications nodes, especially in western Iran; there could even be attempts to destroy the Iranian political leadership.

All these plans make operational sense from a strictly military standpoint, but two of their aspects are immediately apparent. The first is that the scale of the assault is such that it could not be completed within a few days. The combined US air force and navy might be formidable, but even this degree of force would be stretched to undertake hundreds of sorties stretching over many days; repeated reconnaissance, including bomb-damage assessments in between the raids; many repeat operations; and improvised reactions to setbacks, accidents or unexpected events. It would be clear, almost from the start, that this would not be over within a week.

The second aspect is the mismatch that would soon appear between early appearance and underlying reality. It is highly likely that the early indications from a sustained US military operation against Iran would be of a crippling of Iranian military power and of serious damage to its nuclear programme. America, in other words, would appear to have “won” this brief war.

This, however, would be an even greater illusion than the three-week race to Baghdad in March-April 2003. It is highly unlikely that, however much wishful thinking there might be to this effect in Washington, the governance of Iran will fall apart at the seams – let alone evacuate the scene to social collapse and implosion, as happened in Iraq.

What is far more probable on the Iranian side is that the Revolutionary Guards would be revitalised to spearhead a vigorous campaign in Iraq, and to back retaliation against US allies in the western Gulf (including strikes against their oil facilities). This strategy might evolve over many weeks or even months – just as in Iraq four months passed between the termination of the Saddam Hussein regime and the first big indication of the war that was unfolding, the bombing of the United Nations headquarters in Baghdad in August 2003.

It is also as certain as can be that the Iranians would seek every means possible to speed the development of nuclear weapons. These two processes – Iran’s deepening involvement in Iraq and its intensified nuclear programme – would in turn provoke further US military action, involving both the deployment of ground forces across the border from Iraq and repeated air-raids.

On and on it goes, where it ends, nobody knows……….

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Despite the Israeli army ban on nearly all Palestinians entering Jerusalem, Palestinian worshipers still lined up along the Israeli-built separation barrier waiting to cross from the West Bank town of Bethlehem for Friday prayers.   [Photo: Musa Al-Shaer/Agence France-Presse -- Getty Images]

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The Jonathan Cook article on the Syrian strike earlier this month… It has been at the various sites for a couple days, so not news, but want to put it in here…

[S]o what did Israel hope to achieve with its aerial strike?

The stories emerging from the less gagged American media suggest two scenarios. The first is that Israel targeted Iranian supplies passing through Syria on their way to Hizballah; the second that Israel struck at a fledgling Syrian nuclear plant where materials from North Korea were being offloaded, possibly as part of a joint nuclear effort by Damascus and Tehran.

(Speculation that Israel was testing Syria’s anti-aircraft defenses in preparation for an attack on Iran ignores the fact that the Israeli air force would almost certainly choose a flight path through friendlier Jordanian airspace.)

How credible are these two scenarios?

The nuclear claims against Damascus were discounted so quickly by experts of the region that Washington was soon downgrading the accusation to claims that Syria was only hiding the material on North Korea’s behalf. But why would Syria, already hounded by Israel and the US, provide such a readymade pretext for still harsher treatment? Why, equally, would North Korea undermine its hard-won disarmament deal with the US? And why, if Syria were covertly engaging in nuclear mischief, did it alert the world to the fact by revealing the Israeli air strike?

The other justification for the attack was at least based in a more credible reality: Damascus, Hizballah and Iran undoubtedly do share some military resources. But their alliance should be seen as the kind of defensive pact needed by vulnerable actors in a Sunni-dominated region where the US wants unlimited control of Gulf oil and supports only those repressive regimes that cooperate on its terms. All three are keenly aware that it is Israel’s job to threaten and punish any regimes that fail to toe the line.

Contrary to the impression being created in the West, genocidal hatred of Israel and Jews, however often Ahmadinejad’s speeches are mistranslated, is not the engine of these countries’ alliance.

Nonetheless, the political significance of the justifications for the the Israeli air strike is that both neatly tie together various strands of an argument needed by the neocons and Israel in making their case for an attack on Iran before Bush leaves office in early 2009. Each scenario suggests a Shia “axis of evil,” coordinated by Iran, that is actively plotting Israel’s destruction. And each story offers the pretext for an attack on Syria as a prelude to a pre-emptive strike against Tehran — launched either by Washington or Tel Aviv — to save Israel.

That these stories appear to have been planted in the American media by neocon masters of spin like John Bolton is warning enough — as is the admission that the only evidence for Syrian malfeasance is Israeli “intelligence,” the basis of which cannot be questioned as Israel is not officially admitting the attack.

It should hardly need pointing out that we are again in a hall of mirrors, as we were during the period leading up to America’s invasion of Iraq and have been during its subsequent occupation [snip]

I happened to catch Tzipi Livni on with Charlie Rose this week, he asked her repeatedly about the strike.  She would give up nothing, but kept laughing. 

One point that none of the pundits and analysts have noted was that, in attacking Syria, Israel committed a blatant act of aggression against its northern neighbor of the kind denounced as the “supreme international crime” by the Nuremberg war crimes tribunal.

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Oh right.  Lame Duck.  So they say….

  

President Bush spoke at the Major Economies Meeting on Energy Security and Climate Change at the State Department in Washington.    [Photo: Stephen Crowley/The New York Times]

Australia’s Herald Sun (full text):

A US air raid early today killed at least 10 people, including women and children, in a building in a mainly Sunni area of Baghdad, Iraqi officials said.

The raid targeted a building in the Al-Saha neighbourhood in southwestern Baghdad where families were sleeping, the Iraqi officials said.

Bodies were pulled out of the rubble of the building, which was destroyed.

“Ten people were killed and seven wounded when American helicopters attacked Building No 139 at 2am. We have no idea of the reason for the attack,” said an Interior Ministry official.

An official at Baghdad’s Al-Yarmuk hospital said 13 people – seven men, two women and four children – were killed and 10 men and a women were wounded. He said all the casualties were civilians.

The survivors said their building had been attacked by US helicopters early in the morning, the hospital official said.

There was no immediate comment from the US military.

The reported attack came after the US military said the bodies of five women and four children were found in a central Iraqi village after American soldiers raided houses believed used by al-Qaeda earlier in the week.

A military statement yesterday said a raid by ground and air forces had been carried out on Tuesday on a building in Babahani village near the town of Musayyib, about 50 kilometres south of Baghdad.

“According to Iraqi police, the bodies of five adult women and four children were taken to a local hospital in Musayyib Wednesday,” the statement said.

“Structures in the area have historically been found to be used as safe houses for Al-Qaeda,” it added.

“Coalition Forces searching a nearby house located (bomb)-making material including command wire, batteries and timers.

Why believe them.  Why bother.  NYT report of very probably the same air attack.  Or not.  So much more information in the AU press.

Fog of war, no doubt.  Something.  Eyes on the next prize, every attack a warning. Send a message. Take them out, take them down.

Something like that…

… and where it stops nobody knows…

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Comments»

1. liberalcatnip - 28 September 2007

Security Council to Wait Two Months on Iran Sanctions. Condi is pissed off:

The U.S., China, France, Britain, Russia, Germany and the EU expressed “full support” for the IAEA in the Iran matter, the statement from the governments says.

Rice had criticized the IAEA for overstepping its bounds in making the deal with Iran. “The IAEA is not in the business of diplomacy,” Rice said earlier this month, according to a transcript of remarks she made on a flight to Jerusalem. “The IAEA is a technical agency that has a board of governors, of which the United States is a member.”

Well, when America’s top diplomat isn’t doing her damn job (and prefers to fearmonger with overblown rhetoric including visions of “mushroom clouds”, obviously SOME adult needs to step in and do it for her. Suck it up, Condi. You’re useless.

2. liberalcatnip - 28 September 2007

I don’t know if you caught Cuomo on Hardball on Friday, but he trashed Hillary and the Dems on the Lieberman/Kyl amendment. (video – the transcript isn’t up yet)

3. liberalcatnip - 28 September 2007

The Independent: Burma: Hundreds may be dead, as junta tries to keep brutality unseen:

A Burmese journalist who gave her account to The Independent, said: “The police were shooting everything – houses, trees, anything. The bullets were flying over our heads. It was as if they were on drugs and were crazy.” Seven young people ran from the protest in Thanwe and tried to hide in long grass, the 23-year-old journalist said. “Informers were pointing to the grass, people got up and ran, but the police just fired into their backs. Four were gunned down straight away. Shot dead.”

4. Marie - 29 September 2007

lc #1 – This is odd. Reading (iirc correctly) Ritter (or was it Floyd?) today, the IAEA has given Iran a clean bill of health on the nuke question. So, why is the Sec Council considering sanctions? The article is also oddly written because that quote from Condi is a couple of weeks old and wasn’t issued in response to the Sec Council decision today. Why does the report say that the US and France agreed to the delay.

Further thought: Could the Kyl-Lieberman amendment have been rushed through the Senate in an attempt to influence the Sec Council to issue sanctions. Could those Senators have been persuaded once again that what they were approving was only to be used to pressure the UN? Could they really have fallen for the same ploy a second time? Did Bu$hCo really think the Russia and China would fall for this?

In light of the Bush-Aznar-Rice 2003 meeting transcript, it doesn’t really matter what happens at the UN. The two month delay suggests that Russia-China expect the US to attack Iran in tht time period. If we don’t, the next most logical time-frame would be late Feb or early March. Interesting.

5. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

Home again.

Traveler’s Tip: WiFi is free in Pittsburgh’s airport, but in SLC it’ll run you 7.99 (US).

I guess Joseph Smith passed down some law about free internet only being for those approved by the brethren.

Must sleep now. Carry on. :/

6. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

Condi should do a kind of reverse Sally Struthers schtick where she goes on TV and explains how urgent it is for Iranian kids to start starving and dying off RIGHT NOW.

“You donation to our campaign can get those fatal sanctions rolling TODAY !!! For just the price of a cup of DU-laced coffee !! Help us starve the children, TODAY !!”

I suggest that she wears the lemony chiffon pie suit that Miss D. liked.

7. marisacat - 29 September 2007

She is such a Peter principle girl. Provost at Stanford. Should have been the end for her.

If only she’d crawl off to Pepperdine. Or somewhere.

8. liberalcatnip - 29 September 2007

3. Well, the US clearly wanted another round of tougher sanctions imposed immediately but Russia and China refuse to go along with that and Bushco isn’t buying what ElBaradei is saying about Tehran’s cooperation. There are still some open questions that ElBaradei has expressed but he’s been clear in saying that there’s no cause for immediate alarm. My guess is that the US is just trying to appease the rest of the security council by making it appear (as it did with Iraq) that it’s not in a big rush to attack. That doesn’t take that option off the table though since, as it’s been noted, if Bushco manufactures some “proof” that Iran is a more direct threat (in Iraq against US soldiers), it could justify an attack anyway.

Could those Senators have been persuaded once again that what they were approving was only to be used to pressure the UN? Could they really have fallen for the same ploy a second time?

Afaic they’re fools playing a very dangerous game by implying that they haven’t given Bush the authorization to strike Iran but, as we all know, Bush will use ANY show of support to justify his decisions. Having labeled the Revolutionary Guard a terrorist entity gives him carte blanche to go after them anywhere according to the GWOT doctrine.

9. Marie - 29 September 2007

lc – what I’m trying to understand is the weird rush on the Kyl-Lie. The Senate previously passed something on Iran, but the Bush Admin didn’t need either to go after Iran. The AUMF is enough. And neither the House nor Senate is inclined to make it difficult for GWB to do whatever he wants – that is clear from the rhetoric of all the Senators including Hillary that continue to demonize Iran. But since Wed. I’ve been sensing that we were missing the full story on the Kyl-Lie thing (and I don’t mean that it paves the way for attacking Iran which it does, but again that was redundent/superfluous.)

10. wu ming - 29 September 2007

from the people i’ve talked to, the stanford faculty who had worked under her were ecstatic to be rid of her after 2000.

and i totally sympathize with ms xeno about SLC’s sucktitude, although las vegas airport takes the cake for overall worst airport i’ve been in. trying to choose which was less irritating, clustering up with all the other steerage in front of the blaring cable news TV, or slumping down next to the constant dingdingding of the slot machines. oh, and no free wireless either.

11. marisacat - 29 September 2007

The truly vile Krauthammer… he is delighted with Sarko – and Kouchner. We at last have a partner!! Thoroughly pleased with the congress and recent votes… and much impressed with Hillary.

Things can hardly go more wrong.

12. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

Could they really have fallen for the same ploy a second time?

That’s a rhetorical question, right?

The pic of Bush w/ the globes is straight ouf of some straight-to-dvd sci-fi dystopia flick.

13. Hair Club for Men - 29 September 2007

The truly vile Krauthammer

Krauthammer photo behind that link.

Please warn people. I got slightly singed when I clicked and now I feel like crawling under my bed in a fetal position and weeping.

14. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

wu ming, through some miracle, we were positioned in SLC far, far away from any damn television sets. Or they were turned off. It was Friday 7 PM Mountain time, so the place was nearly empty anyway. There was also a bar with some decent beer, which only fueled my annoyance at the wifi gouge ? Look, we spent cash in your damn state, Godheads !!! Gimmee’ my free wifi !!

I’m still reflecting how to help Condi with her little problem. Maybe she and Toby Keith could put their heads together and do their own take on “We Are The World” to raise money for the cause.

…we are the ones who drink the blood of kids
So let’s start bombin’
There’s a choice we’re makin’
We’re savin’ our own oil
It’s true we make a brighter day
Just you and me…

15. Saint Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Anonymous sources in certain European intelligence agencies (how’s THAT for verifiable, on-the-record sourcing of material!) say it is “certain” that the United States will order massive airstrikes on Iranian targets during the winter.

Tehran has fairly cold winters, so knocking out the electrical grid to that city will increase the people’s suffering. The attack is likely to be timed for some time between late December and early February, when the winter weather is at its coldest.

The same intelligence sources also report that the US Special Forces will lead Iranian dissidents already living in Iran in acts of terror in cities and town outside Tehran, which is the classic definition of terrorism.

The idea is to hit the Iranians hard and from multiple directions simultaneously, to knock them off balance and weaken the government’s hold on areas outlying Tehran, where its grip is strongest.

Based on these reports, the Iranian government has already made preparations for the airstrikes, and is stockpiling medical supplies and other emergency equipment in various locations.

Eh, all of this could just be a rumour, since there’s been an “imminent attack” on Iran for a couple of yearse now, but my gut tells me it’s right…either that, or my breakfast didn’t agree with me.

Maybe the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future will visit Dick Cheney this Yuletide and show him how wonderful life will be once World War III gets started (he gets to live the rest of his life secluded in an underground bunker to protect him from Moslem assassins and squat on a pile of gold and jewels like Smaug the Dragon). Or perhaps a replay of “It’s A Wonderful Life”, in which Cheney is given the gift of seeing how marvellous the world would have been if he had never been born.

“So you see, Dick, without you, everybody really DID have a wonderful life after all!”

We need to resurrect Frank Capra and meld him with Quentin Tarantino for THAT film, I think.

16. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

Madman:

…That’s a rhetorical question, right?…

As is the one regarding whether the average BBB resident will fall for it again come Election Day.

Hey !! The Democrats only SORT OF gave permission to bomb !! They didn’t give Bush an ENGRAVED INVITATION to bomb !! Say that there IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES !! It matters !! SAY IT, SCUMBAG !! Now EMPTY YOUR WALLETS !!

Surely Armando and the rest will be in their element. ;)

17. Saint Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

From today’s New York Times:

September 29, 2007
Jenna Bush Begins Book Tour and Media Blitz
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG

WASHINGTON, Sept. 28 — Just a few short years ago, she was a party-loving college girl, sticking her tongue out at Secret Service agents and giving her parents heartburn. Now Jenna Bush, 25, is sporting a diamond-and-sapphire ring, engaged to be married — though probably not at the White House, her mother says — and heading out on a book tour.

America is meeting this new, grown-up Jenna — twin sister of Barbara, daughter of George W. and Laura — this weekend with the publication of her book, “Ana’s Story.” It is a chronicle of Ana, 17, an H.I.V.-positive single mother in Panama whom Ms. Bush encountered while an intern there for Unicef, the international children’s advocacy group.

The book is being accompanied by the kind of news media and marketing blitz — a first run of 500,000 copies and a 25-city cross-country publicity swing that begins Saturday with an appearance at a Borders bookstore in Annapolis, Md. — that few other twenty-something first-time authors could command.

The rollout is being orchestrated by the high-powered Washington lawyer Robert Barnett, whose author clientele includes a who’s who of Washington, from Alan Greenspan to Lynne Cheney. It began Friday evening, with Ms. Bush’s first-ever television interview, an hour-long sit-down with Diane Sawyer of the ABC News program “20/20.”

In it, the previously publicity-shy first daughter held forth on a range of topics, from her father (“He’s doing a great job, and he’s hanging in there”), the war in Iraq (“obviously a very complicated subject,” she said, deftly ducking a question about whether she agrees with her father) and her future husband, Henry Hager, who proposed last month during a crack-of-dawn hike on Cadillac Mountain in Acadia National Park in Maine. (“He’s very outdoorsy.”)

In roughly 300 pages, including a “How You Can Make a Difference” section in the back, the book is aimed at teenagers. It is written in short chapters and simple prose, accompanied by color photographs taken by a college friend of Ms. Bush’s, Mia Baxter. “He stank of alcohol and cigarettes,” Ms. Bush writes, in one typical passage, describing how Ana was molested by her grandmother’s boyfriend. “His eyes were wild, like those of pumas that lived in the jungles.”

Ms. Bush’s editors say her aim is to use her platform as a presidential daughter to raise awareness of what she calls “children of exclusion,” those neglected and living in poverty. She will donate her profits, including an advance that has been reported to be several hundred thousand dollars, to Unicef. She declined a request to be interviewed by The New York Times.

“I think she’s bothered that people have made judgments about her without knowing much about her,” said Ms. Bush’s editor, Kate Jackson. “But that is not her reason for doing this. She has continually said, ‘This is not about me; this is about Ana.’ I think if she wanted people to know anything about her, it is that she’s a very capable writer, and a teacher.”

18. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 September 2007

Marie #9 The AUMF is enough

Is it enough? I’ve forgotten all the research that was done on that bill at the time, but was that not restricted to Iraq?

Did it contain language about terrorism? I don’t remember that. I do remember the original UN Resolution that Iraq was supposed to have violated which the US was basing its claims on. But that resolution (can’t remember the # right now) also included language that no single signatory could take action alone against Iraq.

Otoh, even if the AUMF is restricted to Iraq, isn’t there a ‘terorism’ bill somewhere that basically gives Bush a free hand to attack any country based on that pretext?

As for the two latest efforts , the one in the Senate – the Iran equivalent of the AUMF, that should have been enough for them. Like you, I don’t see the necessity for the Lieberman bill. But no doubt they’ve consulted the attorneys and are attempting to cover all objections should they arise.

I’m sure they believe it was very clever to call Iran’s army a terrorist group.

Not that any of it matters since they will all go along with more war, regardless of laws, bills or anything else.

19. brinn - 29 September 2007

re: #17 — a teacher?! a teacher???!???! Is that why not one single school would hire your sorry drunken ass, Jenna? Because you are such an excellent teacher?

And ” a capable writer”?!?!? LOLOLOL!!! Who the fuck does she think she’s kidding….

His eyes were wild, like those of pumas that lived in the jungles.” Give me a huge fucking break. The reason the damned book is “is written in short chapters and simple prose,” is because Miss fall-on-her-ass-drunk couldn’t write anything more than that. I’d say that at least 80% of teenagers are more intelligent than brain-dead-party-girl could ever hope to be…simple prose. What a joke.

20. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

“I think she’s bothered that people have made judgments about her without knowing much about her,”

Like Daddy’s Bible-thumping base does to every one of us she-infidels in this country whenever we try and score a couple of lousy birth control bills at the pharmacy.

FOAD, Babbette Bush. FOAD. And take your worthless literary pretensions with you. Go get all pious with your “real American” friends out there in fucking rural Kansas or wherever. Swear off alcohol and drugs, get married, become a prisoner at home of your equally pious husband, help him sell Amway and breed babies until you fall over dead at fifty. Then he can replace you with a docile eighteen year old who still has her figure.

God wills it.

21. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

Mcat, DK Tosser has decided that I’m his/her new fwiend over at you-know-where. But I’m not fooled. In his/her heart of hearts, it’s still you that he/she really lurves.

You mean mistreater, you. ;)

22. marisacat - 29 September 2007

ms xeno… LOL

he is an odd one. beware the music lyrics… ;)

23. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

Mcat, I can only hope to someday plumb the depths of eeeevil reached by Sabrina in her relatively short career over there. :D

24. bayprairie - 29 September 2007

Mcat, DK Tosser has decided that I’m his/her new fwiend over at you-know-where. But I’m not fooled. In his/her heart of hearts, it’s still you that he/she really lurves.

he and miss devore’s jeans have more than a little something in common.

and he does seem to value the brand.

25. marisacat - 29 September 2007

the depths of eeeevil

ek hornbeck is a special, special guy.

26. Hair Club for Men - 29 September 2007

Getting back to writing in a blog again, this time a review of a photo book of gun owners.

http://www.rogouski.com/2007/09/a-cat-lover-among-the-armed-an.html

27. Saint Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

What irks me is that the Bush spawn gets an initial printing of HALF A MILLION COPIES, while true literary geniuses live and die in the gutter.

HALF A MILLION COPIES FOR A PIECE OF SHIT PILE OF TYPING.

My friend Richard has published two science fiction novels, both of which got glowing reviews, and sold about 10,000 copies between the two of them. Imaginative, brilliant works–and his third, even better novel, got rejected by his publisher because the first two sold so poorly (the publisher put absolutely no promotion budget behind the novels).

And Jenna Bush gets a guaranteed instant best-seller. “Best-selling author and First Daughter Jenna Bush” will be on all the talk programmes, getting verbal cunnilingus from the likes of Meredith Viera and Oprah Winfrey.

The very thought nauseates me.

Shouldn’t Jenna Bush have to read a book before she writes one? I don’t even think she “wrote” this book; I’m sure it was ghost-written.

I used to say that, as an agnostic, I was unsure whether or not there was a God. Now I know there is not, because a Deity existed with any sort of moral sense whatsoever, the entire Bush family would be struck by a bolt of lighting and burnt into cinders.

28. Hair Club for Men - 29 September 2007

Any way God can take the Clintons too?

Do you really want to see Chelsea vs. one of the Bush Klan for president in 2020?

29. marisacat - 29 September 2007

I wuz gonna say… Chelsea unleashed is a tiresome daddy hound.

As in, really boring. And embarrassing.

30. Saint Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Well, Hair Club, that’s what’s happening, and one of the reasons I’m so worked up about Jenna Bush, Best Selling Author and Humanitarian.

I used to joke about “Jenna Bush v. Chelsea Clinton for President”, but it’s no longer a joke. Jenna is 25 years old and her “political rehabilitation” is under way so that she can run for office. The governorship of Florida or Texas is hers for the taking when the time comes in 10-15 years, and then it’s on to the White House. The Clintons have been preparing Chelsea since she was in swaddling clothes, I’m sure.

That’s after Uncle Jeb is the third Bush in the White House, of course. Jeb was supposed to be first in the queue, but his older brother turned out to have a few tricks up his sleeve.

And let’s not forget “the little brown one”, George Prescott Bush, son of Jeb–who has already worked on George W.’s 2000 campaign and is in law school, preparing himself for his own seat in Congress and governorship. I reckon Jenna will take Texas and George P. will take Florida.

Yes, if there was a just and merciful God who wanted to make His/Her presence known, the Clinton and Bush clans would be swept away in a thunderclap of fire, leaving nothing but ashes and the foul yet welcome scent of brimstone in their wake. I’m sick of the sight of all of them, and tho’ I always swore I would do my duty as a citizen and vote, I will NOT vote for another Clinton or Bush, EVER. Enough of these two clans, enough.

31. marisacat - 29 September 2007

Lenin’s Tomb has a post up on the motives and moves behind western coopting the monks revolt.

I had already seen use of “saffron revolution”. Wish we’d keep our mitts to ourselves.

Got onto the Lenin Tomb post thru Human Beams, a round-up post there… from Nanette, who caught several UK Guardian reports I missed entirely..

8)

32. Arthur Silber - 29 September 2007

Re the AUMFs, Iran, etc.: see The Worsening Nightmare, where I analyzed all that in detail. BOTH AUMFS must be rescinded, as they would be if anyone in Congress actually gave a damn about preventing a widening war. WIth two or three exceptions, they don’t give a damn — in fact, they all want a broader war, as I discussed in my articles this week.

My writing may be (more) erratic until further notice, since my computer seems to be dying. Just lost a new essay in its entirety, after spending about five hours writing it (in addition to days of research and thinking about it). Oh, joy.

33. marisacat - 29 September 2007

Here is the pertinent snip from Silber’s link (at the blog are the embedded links)… it is the 2001 AUMF that, to me, gets Bush off the hook for everything – unless anyone thinks this nation has the strength to STRING THEM ALL UP… which is what is needed. All are, imo, traitors. Both parties..

The final introductory paragraph of the 2001 AUMF states:

Whereas, the President has authority under the Constitution to take action to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States…

And Congress underscored its approval of this view of Executive warmaking authority in the 2002 AUMF:

Whereas Congress has taken steps to pursue vigorously the war on terrorism through the provision of authorities and funding requested by the President to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001 or harbored such persons or organizations;

Whereas the President and Congress are determined to continue to take all appropriate actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;

Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States, as Congress recognized in the joint resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40); and

Whereas it is in the national security of the United States to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf region…

34. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 September 2007

Arthur, thanks for that. I couldn’t remember. They planned ahead, that’s for sure.

But your are right, the AUMF should be recinded, not least because the stated reasons for going to war turned out to be false. So, none of them apply, not that they ever did.

This terrorism excuse is so transparent. But no one was minding the store so here we are with a bunch of lunatics in charge and no way to stop them.

Sorry about your computer, that really is frustrating. Just losing a comment drives me crazy, to lose a whole article is beyond frustrating.

*********

Ms x, I have discovered that a simple comment on a blog made to someone who cannot adequately defend themselves, can lead to such persons losing their cool. I suppose we have to handle these tough guys from DK very gently. I will try to do so in the future. They are very sensitive, coddled little bullies. Playing the role of ‘tough, macho guy’ means you have an image to protect. And what better way than to ‘joke’ about killing someone. Sigh, if only they were original, it might be more fun.

35. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 September 2007

Re Chelsea, Jenna and not-Jenna, this is our future leadership the way things are going.

It makes you wonder what people who knew Bush when he was their age must feel like having him in the WH. Bad as it is for the rest of us, they deserve special sympathy imo. I once heard a former college professor of his say that he was ‘sneaky’ and would ‘lie’ when cornered. Also vengeful etc. Nothing that you might not have guessed about him. Still, nice to have it confirmed.

36. Arcturus - 29 September 2007

if you haven’t seen it yet, a good piece @ CP on Hunter’s Point:

Ethnic Cleansing in San Francisco

37. Arcturus - 29 September 2007

the 2001 AUMF will NOT be revoked, under any administration or congressional majority – bunker down

38. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

Shadow, what are the titles of your friend’s books? I’m always on the lookout for some good speculative fiction (both of the literary and the page turner variety) . I’m currently enjoying the third Takeshi Kovacs novel by Richard Morgan.

39. marisacat - 29 September 2007

From the Counterpunch article…on SF racial cleansing…

The campaign for the “Care Not Cash” proposition, known to homeless advocates as “Neither Care Nor Cash,” was funded by a shadowy group called [SFSOS] who are they? use whole name not initials], which was founded by Warren Hellman, heir to the Wells Fargo fortune, Donald Fisher, the sweatshop king of the Gap/Banana Republic/Old Navy clothing empire, and Senator Diane Feinstein. Other original supporters included financial heavy hitters like Charles Schwab, William Hume, Feinstein’s husband–the war profiteer, Richard Blum–and socialites like Dede Wilsey. In addition to its outright attack on the homeless, SFSOS also opposed the living wage campaign, affordable housing and tenant protection and supported re-segregation of the public schools system through charterization.

SFSOS and the AWDG won big in the ensuing election.

somehow they found me, I get the emails from SFSOS.

40. outofwater - 29 September 2007

Why it’s too much trouble to educate girls past the 5th grade

Oh, you know some asshole is thinking it.

A school in New York is having problems because their absolute “no bag” policy is a bit anti-female, surprise surprise. As any woman reading this is immediately thinking, the problem with not letting students carry even small bags to school is that female students have a very real need to carry pads and tampons. The danger of bleeding through your pants is statistically much higher than the danger that you’re going to turn out to be a school shooter, but that fact didn’t give the assholes who passed this policy pause.

Realizing that it’s a bit problematic to leave female students bleeding from between their legs with no way to plug it up, the school has tried to compensate by allowing students who are currently on their period to bring small bags to school during their period, but no other time. Anyone who was ever a teenage girl and remembers the high percentages of creepy men—many who work in schools—who enjoy humiliating you by prying into your privacy can see the immediate problems with this policy.

Updated: ‘The Question’ causes furor at local high school

Did security gaurd violate girls’ privacy? 1 of 2 A student was charged with a misdemeanor after police say he streaked through the school wearing only this bag on his head.Photo provided By Heather Yakin

Grahamsville — Several television news crews from New York City are camped outside the Tri-Valley Central School following the story in today’s Times Herald-Record about what question a school security guard asked a 14-year-old female student.

The girl was called out of class by a security guard during a school sweep last week to make sure no kids had backpacks or other banned bags.

Samantha Martin had a small purse with her that day.

That’s why the security guard, ex-Monticello cop Mike Bunce, asked her The Question.

She says he told her she couldn’t have a purse unless she had her period. Then he asked, “Do you have your period?”

Samantha was mortified.

41. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Arthur, if I may divert into techno geekdom for a moment: What do you mean when you say your computer is “dying”? Do you know how much RAM it has? Many computer problems can be solved quickly and cheaply by adding on more RAM. We had some “dying” computers at work (that were only 3-4 years old!) and “revived” them merely by upgrading them from 512 megabytes of RAM to 1 gigabytes of RAM. The machines became instantly more reliable and speedy, and the cost for upgrading the RAM was a mere $30 per computer. You can actually install the RAM yourself, or have it done by one of the computer shops for as little as $29 labour. I’m not exactly Mr. Science, but I followed the instructions provided by the RAM vendor and had the new memory installed in each computer in just a few minutes per device.

It’s also possible to set certain programmes, such as Microsoft Word, to “auto save” as you type, thereby reducing your potential losses if saving the entire essay doesn’t work.

Learn from one who has lost much labour and learned, as they say, the hard way.

42. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Madman:

My friend’s name is Richard Cox and he lives in Tulsa, Oklahoma (and yes, he’s very liberal and feels a bit out of place in Tulsa!)

Very nice chap, highly intelligent, good golfer, lots of fun, and married to a gorgeous woman–and a damned good writer. His two books are:

The God Particle (that’s my favourite)
Rift (most people agree that he did a bit better in The God Particle)

His author’s website is:

http://www.richardcox.net/

If you’re only going to read, I recommend The God Particle. Richard’s working on his fourth novel, after being forced to put the third one in a drawer, and will publish it next spring.

43. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Marisacat:

I think SFSOS is the acronym for “San Francisco Society Of Sadists”.

Actually, it stands for “San Francisco SOS”–their mission is to “save the City”! Oh my oh my, I had no idea it was in peril. I thought that nice chap Jack Bauer defused the nuclear device that was going to blow up the Golden Gate Bridge and all was well. Well, that was before he did his latest drink-drive. Can’t fight the terrorists if your operator’s licence is suspended, Jacko.

I dug up an article that you may wish to read on SFSOS, Marisacat:

PANTS, POWER, AND POLITICS
SFSOS guilty of behavior its members claim to despise
SFSOS President fails to disclose
personal financial benefit from group

An excerpt:

Consider the case of Don Fisher, founder of Gap Inc. If you’re wearing a pocket t-shirt you probably already know that he and his wife were fortunate to sell enough casual clothing to make quite a few billions of dollars.

. . . Fisher seemingly seeks to control the city of San Francisco itself. His instrument of domination is SFSOS, a group he started back in 2001 to “save” the city. At the time, Wells Fargo scion Warren Hellman (originally of Crocker Bank lineage) and Senator Dianne Feinstein were partners in the SOS project. All three had plenty of cash and star power galore.

Paul Melbostad takes a dim view of SFSOS. He is the former chair of the Ethics Commission, and these sorts of activities moved him to sponsor legislation in 2000 for contribution limits to independent expenditure committees. That led to the city’s public financing for campaigns, to try to level the playing field for all candidates, wealthy or not.

“SFSOS is going against the concept of one person, one vote,” says Melbostad. “Do they believe they can control City Hall because they’re wealthy?” A little cursory investigating on his part – calling registered phone numbers, and checking billing statements – revealed that Randlett is acting as front man, calling many of the shots. And it looks like he is spending Fisher’s money.

It’s all local SF politics, but it’s really American politics writ large: wealthy people using their fortunes to subvert democracy. I’m not that observant of politics in the City, but I still found the article most interesting.

44. outofwater - 29 September 2007

I definitely don’t think this is hilarious.

It was rude. It was intended to be.

Recommended by: enough already, annefrank, keefer55, TomP, okamichan13, dewley notid
Trollrated by: clonecone, Plutonium Page, Caldonia, Elise, someone else

But obviously we have a different definition of sexist.

Comparing someone to a schoolteacher I don’t find sexist.

Now if I were to say that someone was a miserable bitch who couldn’t get laid in the middle of a prison full of construction workers, that would have been sexist, both to women and to men.

But I didn’t say that…

The meek shall inherit nothing. -F.Zappa

by cometman on Fri Sep 28, 2007 at 04:28:04 PM PDT

[ Parent | Reply to This |Recommend Troll ]

45. marisacat - 29 September 2007

why don’t they just ban women. It would be so much easier. Stop with baning the bags, jsut BAN THE WOMEN.

I caught some report “from the war” this week, on how all the big fancy stuff for war is not IN the war.

One of which is the much touted battlefield bandages that had medication in them to staunch blood flow. Many soldiers and mil in Iraq “have never seen one”.

They asked a big burly American soldier what is done on the battlefield… without the wonderful invention that all news reports touted as so great in 2003…

He had no problem with what they use (tho they wish they had the bandages), but he paused a bit to get it said delicately for cameras.

They get family and friends to send tampons. You put it inside the wound,it, or several, expand and staunch the blood.

46. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Same as it ever was, only a bit worse, Marisacat. The Ministry of Defence, in its infinite wisdom, originally threw us over to Iraq (GW1) with woolen trousers and other winter gear. And no knickers. We were without knickers for three weeks.

Oh, the glories of war….

By the by, anybody want to join my investment club? I’m throwing all my savings into a company that manufactures chadors. Seems like it will be a growth industry in the United States in future.

47. marisacat - 29 September 2007

well shadowthief

I am here in the City, opposed Care not Cash from minute one tho Newsom rode it to City Hall… and I have not voted for Feinstein since 76, when she was my supervixor, as was Newsom.

It is a very good article, the one from Counterpunch that Arcturus links to, but what is happening in Hunter’s Point, Bayview and parts of Ingleside is years old. I watched the destruction of the Fillmore District and the 20 years the many blocks were left empty. It never came back, there was no rebuilding. It is a travesty of cheap nothingness and a wretched, now decaying mixed use set of highrises.

I posted the just the other day, I live in a segregated city with segregated schools.

48. aemd - 29 September 2007

Mr. Silber,

A very good site for spy/ad ware removal information is Major Geeks. I have used info from their site to clean up a couple of machines. They also provide good clean download links to removal tools. Here’s a link to their Malware removal guide.

http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=35407

49. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

The last time I was in San Francisco, Marisacat, I was enchanted with the natural setting of the City, but I did notice that it all seemed a bit…touristy. Of course, perhaps I only saw the touristy bits?

But it seems that San Francisco was long ago made into a city of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich. If this has been a decades-long occurrence, why is it only now that people are bringing attention to it?

I never understood how Feinstein could be elected mayor of a “liberal” city. Either I don’t understand what the label “liberal” means in the United States or else San Franciscans only pretend to be “liberal”. But then again, Pelosi is supposed to be “liberal” and Moulitsas lives in Berkeley, so one can’t tell much by a person’s residence. I have friends living in the hinterlands (Tulsa and Kansas City) who are far more politically progressive than many of the coastal Californians I’ve encountered.

Feel free to correct me if I’ve misperceived the situation. I speak as an outsider, rather than as a long-time citizen of the City.

50. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

On the issue of the homeless:

First, I don’t call them “homeless”, but rather “nomadic”. They have a home. Everybody does. Theirs is just not indoors.

I honestly don’t mind the nomads, aka the homeless, either in Santa Monica, where I once lived, nor in San Francisco. Yes, I realise they can be scary, but so can billionaire capitalists who live on San Francisco’s Gold Coast and want to play God with my life.

My perspective, of course, may be different from others who say they feel “threatened” by the nomadic (homeless) men, since I’m a big, physically capable guy and not someone people feel comfortable threatening. I also grew up in a very rough working class neighbourhood and have lived/worked in some hard places, so being importuned for spare change by somebody who sleeps on a sidewalk doesn’t cause me to turn a hair.

I read the San Francisco Chronicle almost daily, and when I see people saying they want to “clean up” Golden Gate Park, I am appalled. They talk about the human beings there as if they are rubbish to be picked up and disposed of, not human beings who have needs. We mustn’t discourage the tourists and the Yuppies from using the park because they have to look upon the face of the desperately poor, must we? That’s how I feel about it, anyway.

51. marisacat - 29 September 2007

ST

You are welcome to go back and count all the times I have said that SF is not a liberal city.

BTW, Feinstein’s original ascension to the mayor’s office was thru assassination.

BTW< Blair was happy to traipse up and down CA during a very bad time in Iraq a couple summers ago, he interviewed extensively out here. WIth George Shultz (and as I have pointed out for years, Newsom is very close with the Hoover Institution, in fact I called him a REPBULCAN at Dkos and Kos himself censored my words). Blair also interviewed with Arnold.

There is nothing new about what is happening in SF and if you are just learning of it, about it… well…

That article hardly named names. One they should name is the supervixor for Hunter’s Point, who is lie down fall down bitch, as best I can tell. She SERVES the Downtown group.

Also the black ministers, about whom I have written as well… Amos Brown who, before he falls in with any gut wrenching thing to come down the pike, tells us how he marched iwth Martin. And he did. Well so did Andy Young.

I could go on, but really, the story is old and not limited to San Francisco.

52. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

Aside from the wealthy, the folks I know who have the hardest time with homeless people are the ones who have to deal with them on a daily basis. Of course, usually the difficult ones are mentally ill, and those not hung up on Kos-ian Reagan worship are well aware as to how so many mentally ill people ended up on the streets. But then we got the “Comic Relief” series on HBO, which of course proves that celebs and the “free market” can fix everything. Hooray.

I still remember buying a burger and fries one day for a woman in her fifties who was crying on the street because two business “girls” had berated her viciously for asking them for spare change. Well, I agree that big homeless guys who take it in their heads to follow a woman can be scary. But that’s happened to me maybe half a dozen times and I’ve been living here for almost twenty years. I’m sure those two women did feel threatened by the ex-computer tech (we were talking while she ate her burger and I drank my coffee. I couldn’t get her to take any extra food with her) whose roommate got sick and couldn’t work at a time when the tech had been out of work for a year and couldn’t make the rent for them both on her own.

But that threat wasn’t physical. It was something else. Cough.

53. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Hm, most interesting. Well, there goes the myth of San Francisco as America’s last bastion of commie pinkos…Newsom is the only San Francisco politician whom I’ve followed at all, other than Pelosi, because he seems marked for higher things. Alongside his many personal scandals (already forgiven and forgotten by the city’s voters, it seems), Newsom has pursued Republican Yuppified policies that don’t really surprise me. GN is one whose true politics are quite transparent. I was rooting for that Gonzalez fellow to win the last mayoral election, but he seems to have vanished off the face of the earth. Did Newsom have him whacked?

54. Marie - 29 September 2007

Shadow – a pol’s early reputation dies very slowly. In the ’70s there were many women who seemed to be liberal and it was very difficult to recognize that it was only veneer of feminism that made them look like liberals. For many it wasn’t even really feminism but an opportunity to unlock doors for themselves. Di-Fi was one of the greatest beneficiaries of this – liberal women perceived her as one of their own and didn’t listen or watch too closely to what she said and did. Conservative DEMs (who like to think of themselves as moderates) and liberal GOP look and listen and were satisifed with her. Sandra Day O’Connor is another high profile woman who benefitted from this not to careful look at her record. She was a very conservative SC justice but didn’t have a tin ear on sexual and racial equality and justice, both by products of feminism and western republicanism before it took a harder turn right (but always more conservative than the east coast Rockefeller Republicans).

IMHO many women today are backing Hillary because they retain their initial perception of her from 1992. She was probably more conservative at the time than her public image suggested, but if not, she has become more conservative over the years. A not infrequent phenomenon and far less rare than the opposite trajectory for an individual’s life story. I’m not including those social trends that come along and make a larger portion of the public more tolerant – same-sex marriage may still be a no-no but gays and lesbians are more accepted for who they are by more people today than they were only a couple of decades ago.

Anyway as long as we’re rewarded or not punished for whatever track we’re on (more conservative or more liberal) we seem to stay pretty much on that one. Joe Lieberman was on the conservative train long before many noticed. As was Di-Fi except for the perceptive ones like Marisa. (I did have a moment of clarity in 1990 when I couldn’t bring myself to vote for her for governor; left it blank. But did vote for her in 1992.)

55. marisacat - 29 September 2007

The Counterpunch article left out a lot, esp about that mayoralty election in ’03.

It scared the City and scared the Dems. But betwen that election and the one for mayor last year in SJ, between two Democrats (you don’t run on party there either for the mayor’s office) where the Big Dems pulled out all stops (including Bill)… and their guy (who was a woman) DID NOT WIN…

their hold is not as strong as they wish it were. Unfortunately ti is strong enough.

SF has long been an oligarch’s preserve – if one knows the history of mining, for one and our financial district for another… but it is also a CITY, albeit a provincial city.

the hard core homeless here are at Civic Center, near and adjacent to City Hall…. The only area where i was careful, when I used to be around there…

other than that I am a city person, not jsut of SF but frankly of all cities. I lvoe them. Good bad and indifferent.

This one is an old harridan and with a long love hate relationship, I can usually rip this city up pretty good.

Oh yes we all had hopes for Gonzales. Seems it was rather quixotic.

OH WELLLLLLLLLLLLLL.

56. marisacat - 29 September 2007

53

LOL well Newsom comes from what I call Storefront Irish (Garvey and Brennan here, on the paternal side, so I may speak). Whetehr priest or pol or lawyer or whatever.

His father, retired now, was Judge Newsom here in town.

Gavin was not news, he is band box DLC, they don’t publish online lsits of who is who anymroe at ndonline… but he was one of their up and comers… . LOL No surprise the ex-wife is hawking for FOx. No surprise at all.

57. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

SB: …I suppose we have to handle these tough guys from DK very gently. I will try to do so in the future. They are very sensitive, coddled little bullies…

I predict that peeder’s hands-off policy will affect that phenomena in the following way: Eventually the board, big as it is, will not be big enough for these domineering types and they will start battling it out with one another, until there is only one dick-waver or dick-waver’s clique remaining.

You can see that happening over and over again in Mr. Stomach Flu’s interactions with every board he arrives on. Even the other woman-haters can’t stomach him for long because his tone is so combative in its very special passive-aggressive way.

I’m sure that some of the stuff these guys bring up is worth discussing. Just as I’m sure that if I blew 5,000,000 playing roulette I would probably win some of it back. But that much of a gambler I am not. I prefer to keep them at a distance and let others do most of the tweezer jabbing. The better part of valor, etc… :/

58. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

brinn’s exerpt of Babbette’s anti-prose reminds me that the latter is also a plagerist. Check it out.

59. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Marie, your analysis (post #54) is excellent: people see what they want to see, and an early reputation (of a place or a person) lingers after the reasons for that reputation have long since vanished.

On the masculine side of the equation, John Conyers is one who is resting on his own liberal laurels: he’s one of the biggest disappointments in Congress because of his refusal to lead the charge on impeachment. Pelosi’s a lesser disappointment, but a disappointment nonetheless.

Ms. Xeno, I don’t see all that many Kossackianwhackian bullies on PFF. They seem most discouraged by the level playing field, in which their only weapons are their own wits.

Notice that Armando is staying away, of course. I think I’ll call him out and invite him to a duel. Anybody want to volunteer to be my second? Armando gets choice of weapons: Windows Vista or Mac OS X Tiger. I’m so confident in my ability to outmatch him that I’ll even fight him at a time of day when he’s most likely to be sober…if anyone has ever determined what time of the day that is, of course.

60. mattes - 29 September 2007

So is Jenna goinf to share the proceeds of that book with Anna?

61. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

Shadow, I don’t think that it’s a particularly Kossian thing. Though the way the bully squads operate(d) over there made the whole, er, endgame play out differently than I’ll wager it will at Peeder’s place. I’m guessing that ultimately all but one misogynist/misogynist gang will be left. The rest will have tantrums and ban themselves, since they can’t count on Peeder to do it. So long as most of the women don’t respond in any signifigant way to their baiting, they will end up turning on each other since it’s the only way they can alieviate their boredom: By feeding on each other.

To me, the worst part of these morons filling thread after thread with their dopey penis-size-anxiety boilerplate is that my computer has a hard time loading any thread bigger than a couple of hundred posts. So it’s doubly hard to sort the wheat from the chaff if I miss a day’s worth of entries on a particular thread.

Perhaps we should take up a collection to buy these guys each their very own Hummer or similar death wagon, so they can deal with their anxieties in a more socially acceptable (and economically helpful) manner. Armando, too. I’m nothing if not generous.

62. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

60. mattes – 29 September 2007

So is Jenna goinf to share the proceeds of that book with Anna?

About the same time that the Ice Capades perform in Hell.

63. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 September 2007

aemd # 48 – thanks for that site for cleaning up computers. I use adware and so far it’s been okay. But not always, it doesn’t stop spyware, just cleans it out. Don’t know if there’s anything that stops it. I hope that’s all that’s wrong with Arthur’s computer. Mine slowed down to where I couldn’t work with it and thought the hard drive was shot, until someone told me to try adware. It seemed like a miracle!

Congrats on the new place Miss D. Great it has a pool, no more little rubber pool on the porch!

Re the homeless, this country should not have a single person living on the street, unless they are doing it by choice, as I’m sure some are. But considering the wealth of this country, it really is a disgrace that there is so much poverty here.

Don’t know much about SF other than what I read here. I’ve never been out west. Don’t know why, I guess I hate travelling and especially now. I’d rather drive across the country if I had the time.

Ms x, it doesn’t take much to get them all excited. I see that Docudrama has removed Pff from its blogroll! Lol! I’m sure that will put Pff out of business. We are ‘undesirables’ those who frequent the site. So elitist they are.

Not sure who Mr. Stomach Flu is but interesting predictions. Actually a lot of them, the biggest mouths, will never come to Pff and fight it out. They prefer to bully people where no one has any recourse.

Oow, thanks for the link. Haven’t been checking on DK lately. Looks like nothings changed.

64. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Who are the ones you have in mind, Ms. Xeno? Because if we’re thinking of the same mob, they’re already getting disenchanted: Ze troll-ratings! Ze done nuzzink! They can’t even organise a proper gang because unless you can troll-rate somebody’s comment out of existence, or get the admin to ban the person for you–well, what have you got to use against someone except the power of your words and your ideas?

Not exactly their strong point. They’ve tried all their old tricks and their quivers are empty. There will always be a few about, but I think their interest and participation will taper off as time goes on.

So far, I’ve not been overly disappointed in PFF. It’s not the most intelligent discourse, but at least there haven’t been mass bullyings and bannings, and Arthur Gilroy’s latest temper tantrum about how people said mean things to him at MyLeftDrama isn’t get quite the audience feedback he anticipated. Poor Arthur seems most distressed, about what I can’t imagine :)

65. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

SB: Mr. Stomach Flu = D*v*d B*r*n, because I thought about it and decided that it would be more fun spending a week with the stomach flu than a week with him. :D

66. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

Shadow, mostly I was thinking of the predictable fan club that seems to “rally ’round” the women like sv, MissD, Sabrina, and some other women whom I don’t know as well but whom often have interesting things to say. One or two of the goobers are on my tail, but they must see that there’s not much capital in it. Because I don’t have the cred that would come from a public exile off one of the BBBs. Most pffers don’t even know me, which suits me fine, since I spend more time reading than posting anyway.

But the poor boys, you can almost hear the sound of their unmentionables shrinking each and every time a woman shows up with one of her unsanctioned opinions about… well, anything.

67. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Oh him. You’ll never get rid of him. Once he’s stuck on a blog, he stays stuck there unless blasted out by lots of dynamite. I deal with him on a comment-by-comment basis. We at least have a shared cultural heritage of sorts, which helps bridge the gap, but for the most part I just pass him by.

68. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

speaking of the whole anti-woman thing that is newly resurgent, there was a funny/true saying in the Richard Morgan book I’m reading. On the planet that the story is set on, there was a sort of anarchist/commutarian revolutionary named Quellcrist Falconer that people quote … the corporations that run everything hate her, have outlawed people following her movement, though it was centuries in the past. Anyway, one of the characters quotes one of her observations:

“Religion. Has it occurred to anybody that every human sacrament is a cheap evasion, that the whole of human history might just be come fucking excuse for the inability to provide a decent female orgasm?”

Seems about it to me.

69. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

Oh, and thanks for letting me know about his books shadow. I’ll keep an eye out for them.

70. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

I’m going to register over at PFF as “Miss Take” and see how my treatment differs. I recall during during the Pie Wars at DailyKos that some Kossackatonian knuckle dragger was lecturing me about how I needed to get over being upset about the misogyny, etcetera, and then when he found out I was a male…and a military veteran (who wore combat boots, and actually got scuffs on them)…he changed ’round 180 degrees and became VERY respectful.

But for those half-dozen comments where he assumed I was a woman, he treated me like dirt. So I got a very small taste of what women on the blogs have to put up with all the time. I must say, I didn’t like it, but it was a bit of a revelation.

71. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

They’re getting a bit hard to find, Madman–but cheapish through Powells and Amazon and Barnes and Noble. I think both may be out of print now, but The God Particle is a little easier to find. I’m actually doing a bit of research to help Richard out on the current book, and learning some things about free will from both a philosophical and neurological standpoint.

72. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 September 2007

Lol, ms x, can’t disagree with that … never experienced it until Pff and I see what you mean.

ST, there are some good, serious diaries there if you avoid the meta which I try to do except for today, couldn’t let them get away with the hypocrisy in the EclecticFlorian thread. It’s the teacher in me, I guess, and they are more like little boys than grown men, so I can’t help doing what you do with a child who is acting out.

DianeL has had two excellent diaries, both on the reclist, and Kraant’s diary on Blackwater has some excellent links, and in the comments.

Can’t wait to see what Congress does with a company that has killed so many innocent people in Iraq. The founder of Blackwater is supposed to appear before Congress next week, I think. There’s some good info on him in Kraant’s diary. He’s a Christian Fundie, from a rightwing Repub. very wealthy family and I suppose believes killing non-Christians is his Christian duty, or do they do it for sport?

If this was a sane country, they would be all prosecuted for murder and all contractors would be pulled out of there immediately. But then, if we were a sane country a mercenary army would not exist.

The whole thing is so sick it’s hard to find words to describe it – it’s a horror story. And the Dems in Congress have said nothing about these mercenaries. It’s all so hopeless. So many in this country who think it is all so glamorous. Violence is worshipped here.

73. Marie - 29 September 2007

Shadow #59 – Conyers is simply too old to lead the charge. He’s still a good vote to keep around. Sort of like Sen Byrd who’s not as good or reliable as Conyers, but better than anything else that would have come out of WV in the past couple of decades.

I’ll have to pass on being back-up in the rumble with Armando. I’ve done my time sparring with him even if he admitted that I kicked his butt. He’s just another creepy militarist trying to pass for being a progressive.

74. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 September 2007

Ms x, I must say I never had a ‘fan club’ and would probably have remained fairly low key on Pff if it had not been for Mr. Hornbeak’s nasty comment, which I am so used to to be honest, I ignored. But understandably a lot of other people were upset by it, as I used to be when I first came across people like him.

ST, that’s interesting, the different treatment. What I used to like about the internet was that early on many people had names that did not reveal their gender so you were focused only on the comments, and not the personality. At least on some of the boards I was on.

75. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Ouch. Consider the tables turned (this is the international relations versin of “I know you are, but what am I?”):

Iran To U.S.: No, You’re The Terrorists
TEHRAN, Iran, Sept. 29, 2007(AP) Iran’s parliament on Saturday approved a nonbinding resolution labeling the CIA and the U.S. Army “terrorist organizations,” in apparent response to a Senate resolution seeking to give a similar designation to Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.

The hard-line dominated parliament cited U.S. involvement in dropping nuclear bombs in Japan in World War II; using depleted uranium munitions in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq; supporting the killings of Palestinians by Israel; bombing and killing Iraqi civilians; and torturing terror suspects in prisons.

“The aggressor U.S. Army and the Central Intelligence Agency are terrorists and also nurture terror,” said a statement by the 215 lawmakers who signed the resolution at an open session of the Iranian parliament. The session was broadcast live on state-run radio.

The resolution, which is seen as a diplomatic offensive against the U.S., urges Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s government to treat the two as terrorist organizations. It also paves the way for the resolution to become legislation that – if ratified by the country’s hardline constitutional watchdog – would become law. The government is expected to wait for U.S. reaction before making its decision.

On Wednesday, the Senate voted 76-22 in favor of a resolution urging the State Department to designate Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps a terrorist organization. While the proposal attracted overwhelming bipartisan support, a small group of Democrats said they feared labeling the state-sponsored organization a terrorist group could be interpreted as a congressional authorization of military force against Iran.

The Bush administration had already been considering whether to blacklist an elite unit within the Revolutionary Guard, subjecting part of the vast military operation to financial sanctions.

The U.S. legislative push came a day after Ahmadinejad told world leaders at the U.N. General Assembly that his country would defy attempts to impose new sanctions by “arrogant powers” seeking to curb its nuclear program, accusing them of lying and imposing illegal penalties on his country.

He said the nuclear issue was now “closed” as a political issue and Iran would pursue the monitoring of its nuclear program “through its appropriate legal path,” the International Atomic Energy Agency, which is the U.N.’s nuclear watchdog.

Tensions between the U.S. and Iran have escalated over Washington’s accusations that Iran is secretly trying to develop nuclear weapons and has been supplying Shiite militias in Iraq with deadly weapons used to kill U.S. troops. Iran denies both of the allegations.

From CBS News

76. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Sabrina wrote: Violence is worshipped here.

Yeah, I know. I got respect from that guy at DKos because I was a combat veteran. Which means he “respects” me because I was a manly man doing manly things…you know, like shooting people? How wrong is that? We should respect people who figure out a way to NOT shoot people as a way of resolving disputes. But the fetishisation of the military, while not a uniquely American phenomenon, has been taken to extreme penis-worshipping lengths (sorry for the bad pun) in the States. I never saw so many soldiers with so many medals as the Americans; the US military practically toss the pie tins at them on a daily basis. I think they even award a medal for “soldier who already has the most medals for other stuff”.

77. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

Well, SB, as you can see… I have my weak moments, too.

Shameful, I know.

My feeling is that in the old days it was considered, by default, “manly” to be online. So “male” was default gender assumed by nearly everyone until proved otherwise. Frankly, if everyone was following the notion of some genderless ideal, I bet things would be pretty different.

I don’t think most Dems can say anything about the likes of Blackwater. Wasn’t that particular can of worms largely opened up in the heyday of Clinton/Gore’s “reinventing government” schtick ? This idea that privatization of public services would give the illusion that expenses would be cut when in reality the extraction process would really be more vicious, and more below the radar of the people who might give a damn about something other than money ? I would have to do some digging on that, though.

78. Marie - 29 September 2007

Wonder if there are more people like me that would hang out more often at PFF if the banner and profanity weren’t such turn-offs? I like my expletives to have meaning and impact which is hard to do when everybody is always an “asshole.” Also, I don’t find the site as easy to navigate through as dKos is – of course part of the problem is me because by habit I don’t look at the dKos FP and must remind myself to do so at PFF.

79. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Well, Peeder is still tweaking PFF, I suppose. He threw it together in a bit of a hurry.

The profanity slides right by me. Asshole? I’ve been called much worse by much better :D

80. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

A-ha !!

…But the recent contracting boom had its origins in the “reinventing government” effort of the Clinton administration, which slashed the federal work force to the lowest level since 1960 and streamlined outsourcing. Limits on what is “inherently governmental” and therefore off-limits to contractors have grown fuzzy, as the General Services Administration’s use of CACI International personnel shows…

Via CorpWatch.

Another reason to hate Gore’s stinking guts. I never run out, but I still have to watch his stupid movie this weekend because I promised mr_xeno that I would. Pass the ipecac, somebody. Anybody. >:

81. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

I can’t stand Gore’s soporific voice. He drones on and on and on…as does Kerry. Really, it’s called INFLECTION. No wonder he’s called “Gorebot”.

82. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Bush has vowed that the US will “do its part” on global warming.

Erm…Mr. President…when the rest of the world asked you to your part…they didn’t mean that you should cause MORE of it…oh, never mind, planet’s doomed one way or the other, may as well get it over with.

83. Hair Club for Men - 29 September 2007

I can’t stand Gore’s soporific voice. He drones on and on and on…as does Kerry. Really, it’s called INFLECTION. No wonder he’s called “Gorebot”.

You know, in the end, I don’t think Gore’s an entirely negative figure in American politics. He and Jimmy Carter both have some positive qualities to go with their negative ones.

But Gore’s not going to ride in on a horse and save the Democrats from Hillary. That’s just silly.

Interesting. On a purely anecdotal note, I talked to a lot of those 20, 21 year old kids at the Obama rally.

1.) Every single one had heard of Ron Paul
2.) None had heard of the Daily Kos

The attitude was “I admire Ron Paul even though I disagree with most of what he says”. And it makes sense. He’s a bit wingnutty but he’s still the parent figure who will give you straight answers to your questions.

The Kos Cops are just silly banning debate about his candidacy.

84. Marie - 29 September 2007

ms_xeno – the whole outsourcing movement either began with or got it’s first boost with Reagan when he was gov. of CA. Then who took that happy little delusion with him to DC. Neither Clinton nor Gore seemed to have a solid grasp of what it was that they were streamlining and they aggravated the downside of the outsourcing trend. Wrote a diary a couple of weeks ago about one of the unintended consequences of their “streamlining” which essentially increased the opportunity for fraud and that costs us more than the governmental oversight did. It’s the people at the bottom and those in the next two to three rungs above them that know where most of the waste, fraud, abuse and stupidity are, but they are never empowered to speak and participate in effective and functional changes.

Years ago I worked at what was then a mid-sized corporation. At the end of a five year growth spurt, it was obvious that the employee count grew more rapidly than revenues and bottom line profits (a frequent outcome of poorly managed and planned growth). So, they hired McKinsey & Co. to manage a company-wide review of every job. McK&C delegated the actual review to those in fairly senior positions. The one handling it for the dept that I was in was, to be charitable, clueless about most things. When he got around to me, I recommended that they eliminate my job (not me; just the job) because it was a waste of money. His response was, “We don’t want to do that.” Anyway at the end of the whole exercise, only one hand was needed to count the the number of positions that were axed out of a few thousand. It would have been cheaper to keep those people around until they retired than it was to hire McK&Co for the review.

85. wu ming - 29 September 2007

several people mistook me for being female during the pie wars, and without exception apologized profusely when i mentioned that while a feminist, i was not a women. the apology was telling about how such things are valued.

86. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

Speaking of the aforementioned worthless Pelosi:

Pelosi Schedules Vote on GOP-Backed Iraq Measure

The House will vote Tuesday on an Iraq withdrawal measure that has Republican support but has split the Democratic Caucus, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Friday.

The bill, authored by Reps. Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii) and John Tanner (D-Tenn.), would require President Bush to report regularly on his administration’s withdrawal plans.

“In the House, we’ll always strive for bipartisanship,” on the Iraq issue, Pelosi told reporters at what was billed as the first of a series of weekly news conferences.

But the Speaker said she is frustrated that the Senate has failed to allow votes on measures like requiring the Pentagon to provide more training and time at home for troops repeatedly deployed to Iraq.

“No longer will we confine our aspirations to what can get past the 60-vote margin in the Senate,” Pelosi said.

House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) said this week he saw no reason for Republicans to vote against the Tanner-Abercrombie legislation. But liberal Democrats such as Rep. Lynn Woolsey (Calif.) have fought against bringing the bill to the floor, saying it will give political cover to Republicans.

Really, why do they bother to pretend that they are a separate party?

87. colleen - 29 September 2007

Wonder if there are more people like me that would hang out more often at PFF if the banner and profanity weren’t such turn-offs?

It’s probably just you.

88. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007
89. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

wu ming, I got profuse apologies too, as if being mistaken for a woman was some deadly insult. Sorry dude, if I’d known you had testicles, I would have treated you like a human being.

It was funny but sad at the same time, as are most things.

The Democrats pretend they are a separate party because if they didn’t, they could keep up the illusion of a democracy. That’s why the Democrats pick meaningless fights that are really just shadow-boxing.

90. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Nice stuff, Madman.

91. Shadowthief - 29 September 2007

Ok, enough for me. Time to join the Saturday Night festivities, as superannuated as I am. I always feel like a chaperone at parties nowadays; everybody seems younger than me. I need to start hanging out with an older crowd. I was at a friends of the public library sale earlier in the week and was the only one under 65. They kept calling me “young”. I need to hang out there more often :)

Oh, by the by, I snagged a signed first edition, first printing of “The Adventures of Augie March” by Saul Bellow at that sale, in hardcover, in very good condition, for $1 (American). Damned thing’s worth $400 at least, tho’ I have no plans of selling. I’m having pangs of conscience, though, as I didn’t realise the book’s monetary value until after I got home and checked on Abebooks and Alibris. I think I ought to offer to return it to the library so they can sell it and get some much-needed funds. I do expect them to return my dollar, however :)

92. Marie - 29 September 2007

Shadow #81 I can’t stand Gore’s soporific voice. He drones on and on and on… How many presidents have had good voices? After 2003, I couldn’t listen to Clinton – for me he was the one that went on and on. Reagan’s old guy, patronizing schtick was another snooze. FDR had a good voice. Can’t recall if I’ve ever having heard Truman and Ike. The bottom line is that from 2009-2013 we’re going to continuously assualted by some voice and shudder at the thought of hearing Hillary’s for all those years.

HC #83 – IMHO Clinton is the one that did lasting damage to the DEM party. Carter wasn’t bad considering that the party has been broken since 1968. What IMHO differentiates him and Gore from Clinton and many of the others is that they are basically decent and honorable men. It’s just that there are so few like that in DC and getting elected is such a corrupting process that the best we seem able to hope for from them is that they do less harm. Gore had no power as VP; so, I have trouble assigning much blame to him for what was done during that admin. Hope that one day Gore will tell us when the rift between those two began and why.

93. marisacat - 29 September 2007

Gore’s 4 speeches tho, against the war, from September 2002 (given here in SF, that one) to 2004 were very very good.

High rhetoric, Southern populist fire. The R screamed and yelled. Called him crazy. they want that firey language left to the fucked churches – and to the Republicans.

Conversationally he is very dull. And works to say little.

So now we get the cackle.

Enh, if the R promise to take her down, I am not going to mind so much what comes about in 08.

Not that it matters. it doesn’t.

94. Marie - 29 September 2007

HC #83 The Kos Cops are just silly banning debate about his candidacy. That’s because it would force them to talk about libertarianism. And that would force many readers to confront the fact that Kos and other who love to bandy about that they are self-styled variants of libertarianism are really bozos. IMHO anyone fascinated with the libertarians should be forced to read Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman and those other economic theorists they love.

95. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

Bias crimes: At the heart of the divide

Bias-crime laws are a way for society to make clear its condemnation of such acts, recognizing them as more heinous than simple crimes because they cause greater harm. Indeed, pretending as opponents do that a cross burned on the lawn is the same as being egged and toilet-papered, or that a gay-bashing rampage by young thugs is the same thing as a bar fight, simply tries to pretend away the truly hateful and terroristic element of the former of these, as though it doesn’t exist. But it does exist, and its effects poison our society and make a joke out of our self-belief in ourselves as an “equal opportunity” society.

This, in the end, is the single clearest reason why progressives should avidly support a federal hate-crimes law: These are crimes whose primary purpose is to disenfranchise, to expel, to deny the most basic rights of association and opportunity to millions of Americans of all stripes. Civil libertarians need to come to grips with the fact that these crimes are real, their effects are real, and they represent, as Donald Green argues, a real “massive dead-weight loss of freedom” for those millions of Americans.

Americans lose their freedoms not just through government oppression; an honest appraisal of our history forces us to recognize that there is a substantial track record of Americans losing their freedoms (up to and including their lives) through the actions of their fellow citizens: the genocide of Native Americans; the long reign of terror of the “lynching era” and associated “sundown towns” that infected the entire nation; the expulsion and incarceration of Asian Americans; the long-running campaign of vicious hatred directed against gays and lesbians.

Hate crimes are an integral part of that history, and laws intended to punish their perpetrators with stiffer sentences are an important blow for the cause of very real and substantial freedoms for millions of Americans. Trying to argue that, in some esoteric sense, they constitute “thought crimes” that somehow deprive us of our freedoms (to what? commit crimes?) turns this reality on its head.

Yet progressives haven’t yet figured out that framing hate-crime laws as a defense of people’s civil liberties is precisely the argument that will instantly deflate the long-running “thought crime” argument. In all the debate over the legislation, I haven’t seen the point raised once.

96. Marie - 29 September 2007

Marisa #93 – yes, those were good. As was his acceptance speech if it couldn’t have been tightened up and shortened a bit. Have oftened wondered if a good acting/speech coach could do something about making him appear less uncomfortable in his own skin. My guess is that it has more to do with his carriage and presentation style he developed long ago and not any internal feelings of insecurity, etc. He’s best when his words are the most authentic for him that have the most echoes from his heritage.

97. Hair Club for Men - 29 September 2007

IMHO Clinton is the one that did lasting damage to the DEM party. Carter wasn’t bad considering that the party has been broken since 1968

Maybe it’s because I was in high school at the time and just coming to political consciousness but the key year for me feels like 1988.

This is the year the Democrats took a dive so as not to let Jesse Jackson and the Rainbow Coalition get stonger.

Anybody who thinks Dukakis was the best candidate that year is crazy.

They took a dive to wait for the DLC to put up a candidate in 1992.

Thankfully I voted for Perot that year, and Nader in 1996. Too bad I backslid in 2000 and voted for Gore and 2004 and voted for that Frankenstein Monster what’s his name.

98. Revisionist - 29 September 2007

re shadows earlier post… thats why i was so fucking ready to get out of colllege. because they are getting younger. you get older but then everyone else is fresh and 18.

99. VAGreen - 29 September 2007

96. Hair Club for Men – 29 September 2007

“Thankfully I voted for Perot that year, and Nader in 1996. Too bad I backslid in 2000 and voted for Gore and 2004 and voted for that Frankenstein Monster what’s his name.”

I voted for Clinton in 1992 and 1996, Nader in 2000, and Cobb in 2004. I wish that I could have my 1992 and 1996 votes back. I would have given them to Perot.

100. Revisionist - 29 September 2007

HcfM — jackson spoke at my college that year.. hart would have been the nom if not for donna. thats what fucked up 88

101. Hair Club for Men - 29 September 2007

Paul, Kucinich or Gravel in the primaries. Don’t vote or third party in the general election.

Go to the Democratic Convention in Denver and do civil disobedience.

102. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

found this thru a link at After Downing Street. Went looking … nothing at WaPo. Couldn’t find anything through Google News. Only thing I found was this at Indymedia, DC.

BREAKING: Const Ave occupied as of 7PM by antiwar students

As of 7PM Sep 29, almost 100 antiwar students are still occupying Constitution Ave/Penn Ave where they come together around 4th st NW near the Capitol.

103. Hair Club for Men - 29 September 2007

BREAKING: Const Ave occupied as of 7PM by antiwar students

I was all set to go but I got brutally sick last night. Right now I’ve on half a bottle of Peach brandy with a 102 fever. Not the state you want to be in for the three hour drive to DC.

But the International Answer march on the 15th was great, not huge but militant and passionate.

104. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

Catholics initiate call to refuse, to support GI resisters

By Jonah House and Dorothy Day Catholic Worker. September 28, 2007

Brothers and sisters in the military: “Refuse to fight! Refuse to kill!”

You are being ordered to war in the footsteps of veterans, who, more than 10 years ago, were sent to fight the first Gulf War. Many of those vets returned with severe and unacknowledged illnesses. Many gave birth to severely deformed children. All were abandoned by the Veterans Administration.

You are being ordered to war by the most powerful nation on earth. You are being ordered to war by a nation with the most destructive weapons ever conceived, developed, deployed or used.

You are being ordered to war by a nation whose self-acknowledged posture is that of world domination, mastery, control. This nation can have no moral justification for war.

We, the undersigned, are convinced that war is the greatest evil on earth. We believe that humankind must end war, or war will end humankind, and, in fact, all of creation.

Our convictions have driven us time and again to the Pentagon, White House and Congress in acts of civil resistance to war.

Now, we bring our plea to you, sisters and brothers, in the armed forces.
Refuse to kill.
Refuse the order to go to war.
Leave the military before it is too late.

We know your resistance to war will be difficult and require great courage.

But please reflect:
Is it more difficult than fighting in war?
Is it more difficult than being a pawn of corporate greed?
Is it more difficult than living with a violated conscience?
Is it more difficult than living with the poisons of war in your body and spirit?

Wrong is easy. Right is difficult and long. Do what your heart says is right.

We knowingly and willingly make this plea to you in violation of 18 USC Sec. 1381 and 2387 (see below). We knowingly and willingly embrace some of your risk by urging you to refuse duty in the U.S. military.

We plead with you, as Bishop Oscar Romero pleaded with Salvadoran troops: “When you hear the words of a man telling you to kill, remember instead the words of God: ‘Thou shalt not kill!’ No soldier is obliged to obey an order contrary to the law of God?In the name of God, in the name of our tormented people who have suffered so much and whose laments cry out to heaven, I beseech you, I beg you, I order you in the name of God, stop the repression!’”

If you choose to leave the military, please know that our hearts and homes are open to you.

105. Hair Club for Men - 29 September 2007

Paul, Kucinich or Gravel in the primaries. Don’t vote or third party in the general election.

Jackson spoke at my high school in 1987. I was a 15 year old kid from a racist family with a big streak of racism myself but I just couldn’t believe they chose Dukakis over Jackson. It flabbergasted me.

106. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007
107. Marie - 29 September 2007

HC #97 – I refer to 1988 as “what were we thinking?” Recently saw a clip of the debate that year and Dukakis was even worse than I’d remembered and that was against the charisma challenged and very boring GHB. I loved Jesse in the ’80s but he was not qualified either. Never could stand Hart. Who else was running? Simon in ’88? Harkin in ’92? And the damn media focused on Tsongas?

Perot is a nutcase. Just as I wouldn’t want a med student performing neurosurgery on me, I don’t vote for novice pols for POTUS. If I could take back anyone of my votes it would be 1992. Better to leave GHB in there and not lose the House. Another four years of the GOP for a total of 24 and the country would have had enough of them for a while. Actually the country was tired of the GOP and Reagan by 1988 and almost anybody except “what were we thinking” and Jackson could have beat GHB. But doubt that liberals would have been any happier with Hart than they were with Clinton.

108. Hair Club for Men - 29 September 2007

Recently saw a clip of the debate that year and Dukakis was even worse than I’d remembered and that was against the charisma challenged and very boring GHB. I loved Jesse in the ’80s but he was not qualified either.

Losing with Jesse would have meant building the party in a populist direction. Losing with Dukakis meant Clinton.

They took a dive in 1988.

Call it what you want, conspiracy theory, nutty, uninformed but that’s what I thought in high school and I see nothing to prove my original insight wrong.

They took a dive.

109. Hair Club for Men - 29 September 2007

I also remember buying Gary Hart’s book New Democracy when I was 15 and thinking “Jesus Fuck this is Boring”.

Bradley or Cuomo might have won.

110. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007
111. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

Marie:

…Gore had no power as VP…

Debatable. And at any rate, he was the public face of Clinton’s bullshit policies. I might add that he is largely to blame for the elevation of that psycho-shitheel Lieberman as being some kind of cuddly public face of “moderate” Jewish voices in the U.S. That alone should earn him a couple of days in the stocks while it’s pouring down rain.

I’ve gone on record innumerable times as stating that I try to look at a candidate’s policies first and his/her stylistic attributes second. I have nothing against geeks, treehuggers, and the socially less than perfect– unless I think they’re opportunistic DLC fucks like Gore.

112. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

P.S.– We heard over and over again that these guys, Clinton and Gore, were intellectual heavy hitters. Sooooo much better for us than some idiot like Bush. Well, I don’t believe that Gore nor his boss really “didn’t understand” the consequences of privatising government. They came out of the DLC. They understood perfectly. Sacharine Social Darwinist shits that they were. Are. At any rate, implementing something you don’t understand isn’t actually a sign that you’re fit to rule anything larger than a tool shed in an empty lot. :p

113. marisacat - 29 September 2007

argh. Re: SILBER CRASH

I sent an email in case it is only the site, Once Upon a Time, and not his entire computer…

Any suggestions? Any idea what might have happened….

I realise we know nothing about his computer.

And i am beyond useless with anything tech, software, etc.

114. wu ming - 29 September 2007

i never got why people thought clinton was a good speaker. irritated the hell out of me, all forced charisma. always felt like he was talking down to me, although in a relatively more pleasant way than bush’s delivery as if he was addressing a retarded child or non-english speaker, ver-y slow-ly with the odd meter of separated syllables.

hillary has got to be the worst i’ve ever heard, though. nails-on-chalkboard bad.

but then, as someone born in 75, and who only really started paying real attention in 1992, i haven’t seen a decent presidential candidate come anywhere near the white house in my lifetime. i probably never will.

at this point, all i want is someone who isn’t going to be led by the nose by the experts and advisors. i’m still holding out hope that gore’s post-2000 conversion is substantive, but then i guess the desire for there to be some way out of this mess will tend to cloud one’s better judgement.

115. marisacat - 29 September 2007

The Clinton administration certainly understood what they did with privatising Medicare. It ocnitnued apace.

They brought in hard core adivsors from the private sector to work to destabilise Social Sec Disability systems.

They understood what they did with welfare.

They understood what they did with NAFTA. As did all who voted for it.

Clinotn militarised the CA border (that was my first email to Tuston – out of the blue from reading him at Dkos, in 2004, to ask about how ti came down in AZ), to prepare for the result of NAFTA. I watched it happen from 93 – 97

116. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007
117. marisacat - 29 September 2007

Oops

I got thru to Silber’s site… think Madman’s link is off… (and I will fix taht one)

Here is the Silber entry.

118. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007
119. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

oops, sorry about that!

120. marisacat - 29 September 2007

When I followed madman’s link to Silber’s site, I got just blogger, not the site.

Now that I got there and read, seems like it is the problem he mentined earlier. Nothing new.

Sorry for the confusion.

121. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

New Chris Floyd

On Thursday, the U.S. military admitted that it had killed five women and four children in a raid by fighter jets on a house in the small Iraqi village of Babahani on Tuesday. (The Pentagon had initially reported only that “seven suspected insurgents” had been killed in the airstrike on the civilian neighborhood.) [snip]

Thus let us properly appportion the guilt for the murder of these innocent people, especially the children. It belongs, first and foremost, to George W. Bush. Then, from this most rotten of heads, it flows down through all those in the Administration who planned, promoted and carried out the war crime, and to all those outside the Administration who championed it, and to all those who, like the majority of Democrats in Congress, countenanced it and funded it (and do so still), and so on and on, coursing through the natural gates and alleys of the whole body politic, barking it about, most lazar-like, with vile and loathsome crust.

NOTE: Two days after the Babahani raid, an attack by U.S. helicopter gunships on a Shiite neighborhood in Baghdad killed at least seven men taking part in a Ramadan game. The next day, on Friday, at least 10 civilians, including four children and two women, were killed in an attack by U.S. helicopter gunships on a Sunni neighborhood in Baghdad.

If it would not be too disrespectful to say so, one might almost note a trend at work here. Indeed, if we were not bound by the strictures of Senate-mandated civility, we could say that the rising number of indiscriminate attacks on civilian neighborhoods by U.S. airpower appears to be an integral element of the “counterinsurgency” doctrine at the heart of the vaunted “surge.” One might even go so far as to suggest – respectfully, of course – that we are witnessing a deliberate attempt to terrorize the civilian population into submission.

However, if such a suggestion is considered simply too far beyond the pale – especially as it could be seen as a criticism of the architect of the surge’s counterinsurgency doctrine, General David Petraeus, whose reputation is under special protection by the Senate – then one could say that these increased civilian deaths are simply the inevitable result of trying to maintain the occupation and control of another country while minimizing impolitic and unsettling losses to your ground forces.

Thus what we are seeing in this constant harvesting of “collateral damage” through airstrikes is a preview of what Iraq would look like under the “withdrawal” plans offered by “serious” Democrats, all of whom envision keeping a “residual force” in Iraq to deal with “terrorism,” maintain “peace in the region,” and staff the permanent U.S. bases being built there. The only way to protect such a diminished, isolated but still present force is, of course, through the increased use of airpower. So no matter which “serious” candidate of whatever party wins (or is given) the presidency next year, there will be many more Babahanis.

But isn’t it nice to see that the bipartisan unity that so many have sought to foster in Washington is now coming together at last? ***

122. marisacat - 29 September 2007

The next day, on Friday, at least 10 civilians, including four children and two women, were killed in an attack by U.S. helicopter gunships on a Sunni neighborhood in Baghdad.

think that is the air raid I mention in the post above, under the Bush photo.

Yeah right… lame duck. he has situated AQ in Iraq now, for years. There is no argument from Congress.

123. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

Glad to see that Silber’s site is still (mostly) standing.

After reading the link about mirthful Hilary, I don’t think that I’ll ever sleep again. What if I start hearing that in my dreams ? Yecch.

This is how the feminist movement has guttered out, I guess. Four billion feminist blogs will lick her shoes nonstop no matter what she does. I can’t even bear to look. There really is no shit that even supposedly educated people will shy away from swallowing– so long as the label looks all pretty and stuff they won’t even pay attention to the reek.

Holy Hell.

124. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

yup, I think it’s the same one too … so many war crimes to keep straight.

125. bayprairie - 29 September 2007

My friend’s name is Richard Cox and he lives in Tulsa, Oklahoma (and yes, he’s very liberal and feels a bit out of place in Tulsa!)

i know two wonderful wonderful people from tulsa. they manage to maintain in spite of their nearest neighbors. of course my friends are anglo. go figure.

your friend should look on the bright side. at least he’s not living in oklahoma city. but im sure there are even good people living there. by the way, this geographical demonization/blue state purity thing thing on OGP these past few weeks :::waving at marie and her bill::: is getting rather boRing.

i suggest every blue state purist ask any bagdad iraqi jury how cool your fucking state really is. do that on a weekly basis short answer is, its not.

oh, and when in tulsa? order the CFS&G. can’t go wrong there.

126. CSTAR - 29 September 2007

Re: Completly OT remark on software, motivated by Silber’s travails with his machine. Why oh why do people STILL use windows? For people with PC’s (even fairly old ones) there is a very nice alternative
ubuntu>, which is linux as it should have been 10 years ago. Or if you positively hate installing anything, trash your PC and get a Mac.

127. ms_xeno - 29 September 2007

Okay, bayprairie. I give. I shouldn’t have made fun of Kansas. It was the heat of anger at the twin evils of nepotism and bad writing that made me do it. I swear it won’t happen again. After all, I am the woman who freely concedes that if you alter the accents on King of the Hill, you get at least five or six towns in NJ barely a stone’s throw from where I grew up (even if I’m still waiting to achieve maturity).

Sorry sorry sorry.

Maybe this will make up for it a little:

Ron Vs. Chuck: The Armageddon

128. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

as much blood as our military is spilling to make a relatively small number of people very wealthy, it’s plain that there 50 red states … blood red.

129. marisacat - 29 September 2007

Well CSTAR I think I have Windows as I am challenged.

Still amazed I even managed the all thumbs are OK thing that a WP blog is.

***********************

As for Mr Silber… well I received a blistering email from him. I sent a quick email off to say “sorry if a suggestion here went amiss”.

Clearly no one here should be concerned about his computer issues.

Arthur, as I know you are reading and I certainly will not be emailing you again after that 50 caliber blast, if you need to direct fire at me or blast at me that no one here reads you, sadly you don’t have too many targets.

Some people here DO read you, as they comment here directly on your posts and they thank you. And I see the click thrus, as do you at your end.

But, you take care.

130. BooHooHooMan - 29 September 2007

We’re looking at what ? Four months to the lock for Hillary on the DP nom?

Perhaps it is a failure of imagination, but I can’t see her winning the General. I think the GOP would rather have a one term Rudy or Mitt than give up Executive Power no matter how co-opted. at this time. Just run the table in the Oil War…I don’t see them throwing a bone on a string to the DP.

A Hillary loss would just as easily result in Fya Can’t Beat Em, Join Em Exodus of the DP to the GOP as would some genuine progressive spark….
————
On a seperate note re FleshFeasters, Byron occassionally strikes me as insanely funny even though I got his number….

There are some seriously tweaked Likkudniks voices on board though…..

I thought Pyrrho posted a decent piece, and in my own stemwindedly way said so..

Miss D bowled me over with her “No, but I have a chihuahua” line to cops looking for guns.

131. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

Tucson-bound woman who died in police custody at Phoenix airport identified

PHOENIX — A 45-year-old woman who died in police custody at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport may have died after becoming tangled in her handcuffs while trying to free herself, authorities said Saturday.

Carol Ann Gotbaum died in a police holding room after being arrested for disorderly conduct Friday afternoon, said Sgt. Andy Hill, a Phoenix police spokesman. Hill said investigators told him Gotbaum was from New York, but he wasn’t positive of her city of residence.

Gotbaum was arrested after becoming irate with gate crews who refused to allow her to board a plane, Hill said. She began yelling and screaming, and officers handcuffed her and took her to the holding room, where she continued screaming.

Hill said officers checked on her when she stopped screaming and found her unresponsive.

Hill said investigators told him it appeared that Gotbaum may have tried to get out of her handcuffs, became tangled in the process and the cuffs ended up around her neck. She was unconscious when officers discovered her.

words fail … she did WHAT? What kind of cuffs were those?

Love the stenography by the AP reporter … just swallow what the cops say, ask no questions.

132. BooHooHooMan - 29 September 2007

Eds:

A Hillary loss would just as easily result in Fya Can’t Beat Em, Join Em Exodus of the DP to the GOP as itwould bring some genuine progressive spark…

133. bayprairie - 29 September 2007

thanks xeno. you’re a trooper.

i think the thing is though. everyone who loves life loves their home. there are no evil places in the world. only evil people. it really hurts my feelings when i get lumped in with them.

fuck. ive been against the war since day one, fighting the fight down here all my waking hours since before the war began.

now whats the deal with silber? sounds on this end like a bill gates problem.

send all complaints to him!!

134. marisacat - 29 September 2007

just an image to hold up a thread…

LINK

8)

135. Madman in the Marketplace - 29 September 2007

Is Hillary Clinton the New Old Al Gore?

The Beltway’s narrative has it not only that the Democrats are shoo-ins, but also that the likely standard-bearer, Hillary Clinton, is running what Zagat shorthand might describe as a “flawless campaign” that is “tightly disciplined” and “doesn’t make mistakes.” This scenario was made official last weekend, when Senator Clinton appeared on all five major Sunday morning talk shows — a publicity coup, as it unfortunately happens, that is known as a “full Ginsburg” because it was first achieved by William Ginsburg, Monica Lewinsky’s lawyer, in 1998.

Mrs. Clinton was in complete control. Forsaking TV studios for a perfectly lighted set at her home in Chappaqua, she came off like a sitting head of state. The punditocracy raved. We are repeatedly told that with Barack Obama still trailing by double digits in most polls, the only way Mrs. Clinton could lose her tight hold on the nomination and, presumably, the White House would be if she were bruised in Iowa (where both John Edwards and Senator Obama remain competitive) or derailed by unforeseeable events like a scandal or a domestic terror attack.

If you buy into the Washington logic that a flawless campaign is one that doesn’t make gaffes, never goes off-message and never makes news, then this analysis makes sense. The Clinton machine runs as smoothly and efficiently as a Rolls. And like a fine car, it is just as likely to lull its driver into complacent coasting and its passengers to sleep. What I saw on television last Sunday was the incipient second coming of the can’t-miss 2000 campaign of Al Gore.

136. Marie - 29 September 2007

HC #108 The DEM party took a big dive in ’72. That was payback for what the old guard viewed as the left fracturing the party in late 67 early ’68. Had RFK not been assassinated, it might have healed itself that year, although the left was really ticked off that RFK swooped in after the McCarthyites had done the heavy lifting. By ’76 the squabbliing had still not been resolved and while this was going on, Carter simply walked into the vacuum and didn’t please either major faction until it was too late in ’80.

Compare that with the GOP that took a dive in ’64. They went long and exteme which set up the playing field in ’88 for the less extreme Nixon and in the long run the Goldwater twin Reagan (who stumped for Goldwater in ’64).

’84 was the year to go extreme and long. Mondale ended up being nothing but a place holder like HHH had been in ’68. Both decent enough moderates but moving up from VP in a prior troubled admin is practically a kiss of death. You could be right about ’88 but it was more complicated than that. Moderately informed voters had never heard of the DLC. But all three of their candidates – Babbitt, Gore, Gephardt – went no where. That left Dukakis, Jackson and Simon (after Hart took himself out). The results indicated that the party was far too the left of the DLC. This was all a recapitulation of the battle that began in 1968, only the DLC was in addition to being hawkish on defense was GOP-lite on the economy. IMHO, they weren’t powerful enough for the party to take a dive that year. We just got a lousy liberal candidate. Jackson wouldn’t have improved the future prospects either – he would have lost and he was no cleaner than Hart or Clinton on the philadering IQ.

If not for Perot articulating the deficit message in 1992 that Clinton appropriated, I doubt that he would have won. Not sure we can refer to the DLC as a single org. There’s the Clinton faction and the others and I’m not sure who is in which one. Dean is no longer a member but I don’t know when he withdrew. THIS list of DLC (or New DEM or whatever they call themselves today) is the only one I found. While still on the list Gore was dead to them in 2000 (probably dead before then to Clinton). IMO the decision to take a dive in 2004 was made early and the DLC was powerful eough by then. The only open question was who would be the sacrificial lamb. These guys are nasty and ruthless — perfectly content to throw one of their own under the bus.

137. BooHooHooMan - 29 September 2007

JackBoot Nation, Madman. I am over the Falls with the mythical CW of the American Dream. Still falling in a surreal nightmare more like it… what will save me when they come for me? What will happen if I ever lose my honorable DD214?

138. marisacat - 29 September 2007

frankly sounds like the cops strangled her with flex cuffs.

But lordy, I surely do not want to leap to a conclusion.

139. wu ming - 29 September 2007

that was my first reaction, marisa.

140. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 September 2007

RE Arthur Silber’s problems with Adware. Don’t know if he will this. But I read on his site what his problem is. He says he can’t delete after he scans. This is normal for adware. If you have over say, 200 ‘objects’ to delete, they won’t go when you press delete. The little tracking thingy just stops. He has 1000, that is his problem imo.

Here’s what I do, as I had over 1000 the first time I used adware and my computer was standing still.

First do the scan. Then Quarantine everything. You have to give the file or files if you do it a few at a time, names. Just use letters, like ‘M’ – ‘A’ eg.

This is important. Cancel the operation after everything is Quarantined. Then start again.

When the adware window is up, you should see that the Quarantine box indicates that it has ‘objects’ stored. Click on Quarantine. Then, since he has so many, click each little file and then ‘delete’. That should work.

I don’t think he needs a computer repair guy if that is the problem. It just takes a little time when you have that much spyware in there. And it sounds like that’s what he has. It moves your desktop around eg and almost operates the computer by itself.

141. marisacat - 29 September 2007

That is the problem, Bush empowered the bullies. The Securitat and police state and worship of mil and war and killing and “hunting them down” and and and and…

Clinton dropped ball after ball when he was not corporatising himself and the wif and the ungainly kidlet…

I get so tired of Monica and Donna referred to as fly / zipper problems.. or Jesse this or that.

POLITICAL problems. Unable to cope. Never enough. Bill knew the hard right was after him, he lulled himself it did not matter. Gee. What did he miss about Christmas card Gate that Waxman’s predessor – cananot think of his name -
issued ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY subpoeans over… and obtained expanded power for that committe chair, that Waxman now enjoys?

What did Bill miss? It was right in front of him. He is not a good politician. he is a coaster, coasting. Like most of them.

Watching the press the past two weeks, the treatment of Mahmoud and other things going on, listening to Bollinger and Rose with Mahmoud…

The god damned fucking nation bought into

BRING IT ON!

they all did. Even the so called wall flowers.

Hillary flies to an undisclosed location soon for a testicular transfer. I hear she specified Republican donation.

142. marisacat - 29 September 2007

Dan Burton, that is the name. He preceeded Waxman in that chair.

143. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 September 2007

Just heard that on the news. Maybe she had some health problems and the stress of the situation, being left alone like that, in handcuffs might have exacerbated them. Maybe asthma or some respiratory problems. They said she was panicing and screaming because she could not board the plane.

Doesn’t anyone try to calm people down anymore, talk to them, before treating them like criminals? Dumb question, I know.

Otoh, they may have done something to cause her death, but that would be hard to hide I imagine, after an autopsy.

********

From Hair Club:

1.) Every single one had heard of Ron Paul
2.) None had heard of the Daily Kos

I’ve said this so many times. No one I ever asked, no matter how politically aware they are, ever heard of Daily Kos. So it may as well be Pff as far as influence goes.

Btw, it didn’t long for Docudrama to put up the ActBlue ATM –

And reading the comments in Stan Goff’s column on HuffPo, nearly everyone agreed with him. Some saying it finally dawned on them just in the past few weeks, that they must give up on the Dems.

I think the Netroots strategy of telling Dems they hate they way they’re acting, but will vote them regardless, will go down in the history of Political Strategy, if there’s a section for ‘ Stupid Political Strategy’ (like stupid crooks stories) as the stupidest strategy ever.

Reading HuffPo’s comments, it’s finally downing on people, as Stan Goff said, that the only way to get their attention to desert them as they deserted us.

This comment is very revealing. I wasn’t aware how bad Sherrod Brown had turned out to be:

clevelandchick (See profile | I’m a fan of clevelandchick)
Thank you for this post Mr. Goff. I’m sharing this with everyone I know. To illustrate your point I have an anecdote:

A year ago, former Representative and current Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown told his potential constituency he was a progressive liberal that would work to get us out of Iraq and restore checks & balances. Many here, including myself and my friends, gave him money and our precious spare time to get him elected. He rewarded our committment by voting for the Military Commissions Act and continued funding of the US Iraq Occupation.

A friend of mine encountered him at a Dem event in town and confronted him on his MCA vote. Sherrod’s reply? ‘You vote how you want to and I’ll vote how I want to’. Quite the big middle-finger to a supporting constituent huh?

That is the attitude of the Democratic Party in a nutshell and as you’ve noted, it’s no different than the Republican Party’s.

Save for an unlikely Cinderella-Story with a Kucinich primary/general election victory, I’m afraid you are right about what needs to and hopefully will happen.

Sand in the gears, I like that. I hope you don’t mind if I use it sometime.

I am surprised that he voted for the MCA. And he was supposed to be one of the more Liberal Dems. What an attitude to have with a constituent who supported him.

144. wu ming - 29 September 2007

it certainly puts the lie to the progressive caucus, doesn’t it.

145. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 September 2007

Dan Burton, yes I remember that. Don’t remember the details but didn’t realize Waxman was his successor.

Ms x. lol! You certainly do have your moments. Many great ones, airc. That’s a funny exchange at Pff btw. And no one can rant the way you do. Poor Hunter, his rants pale by comparison.

I was thinking earlier about the ‘Nader phobia’ at many liberal blogs, but maybe now they’ll see that he was right, at least as far as the Dems not making a difference.

*******

Mitm above. Another murderous horror story from Iraq. And the Blackwater killings, the father whose son was shot and died in his arms. And the mother, a doctor, shot right next to her daughter. If there is just a slap on the wrist for this, someone in Iraq will pay, I’m sure. I suppose Condi and her ‘investigators’ think people (well, brown people anyway) will just ‘get over it’ in a few weeks or so.

146. Sabrina Ballerina - 29 September 2007

Wu Ming, yes it does …

Just read this about the military junta in Myanmar. I sure hope it’s true, it would give me hope for this country.

All eyes on the UN envoy

Will he find evidence of a split in the ruling junta – and a possible mutiny in the army?

Reports of a split in Burma’s ruling junta and a possible mutiny by troops in support of pro-democracy demonstrators continued to circulate in Burmese exile circles today, as the spotlight fell on urgent efforts by a UN special envoy to end the crisis, writes Edward Loxton.

The visit to Rangoon and Burma’s new capital, Naypyidaw, by the UN Secretary-General’s special rapporteur on Burma, Ibrahim Gambari, scheduled for today, will hopefully throw light on what is really happening in the country’s corridors of power.

And there’s this:

Around 1,000 monks are now being held, either at Rangoon’s notorious Insein prison or at a government ministry compound. Kangaroo courts have already been in session, handing out sentences of up to six years’ imprisonment, according to Burmese sources with prison contacts.

It transpires that when troops first raided Ngwe Kyar Yar on Thursday, they plundered the monastery, seizing valuable offertory objects and cutting off the jeweled head of an ancient statue of Buddha.

147. Paul - 30 September 2007

What a fright-fest. Congress must subdue Bush to restore order.

148. ms_xeno - 30 September 2007

SB, hunter is one of the die-hard Zionists, right ?

If I were posing as hunter, I’d have to hunt, trollrate, and ban myself.

Hmmm… with the right combo of coffee, rum, and macaroons, it could make for a fun afternoon of performance art. Too bad I have to go back to work on Monday. :D


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