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I have no fucking clue… 2 January 2008

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, Afghanistan War, Iran, Iraq War, WAR!.
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IMO it’s a passel of DLCers running. Senate level. They drew lots for who should be whom to the hapless electorate:  You be Mary Mary Quite Contrary, and I will be Little Miss Muffet…thank goodness it’s easy to remember that the Republicans are the Big Bad Wolf….   

Well, all but.

But, in the spirit that someone will win, some last minute interviews that Obama and Edwards gave to the NYT (guess Hillary fended them off).  The preamble states it is edited, so …

Interview with John Edwards…

and this appears at the close… sigh.  I’d feel a lot better [not that I care, mind you] if he did not so clearly need Elizabeth with him as much as possible.

Q. Thank you for your time.

A. Thank you for making the trip here.

Elizabeth Edwards: My only criticism is that you did not talk about training outside of Iraq, the training of security forces.

Q. Basically what you seem to be implying is that we are out of the training business for training the Iraqi soldiers.

Mr. Edwards: Oh No. I think we can do training outside of Iraq.

Q. Well, go ahead. So your point is that you would continue it outside.

Mrs. Edwards: You’re looking at me. It’s the one thing you forgot.

Q. Well, you’re the one who made the point. It’s not in the White Book; I looked.

Mr. Edwards: I have talked about this in the past. I think we can do some ongoing training outside of Iraq. I think the problem of doing the training inside of Iraq is the troop level that is required.

Q. What you can do outside Iraq is limited.

Mr. Edwards: Of course, it is limited.

Q. You have to take the forces there away from the fight, and you can’t do unit training. There’s not very much you can do outside Iraq but you can do some.

A. You can do some. You can do some.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Interview with Barack Obama…

Q. In your plan presented in September, you mentioned if there was widespread sectarian killing, you said you would reserve the right to send American forces back into Iraq as part of an international effort to stem the sectarian killings and to protect the population. So there are some circumstances that even after the pullout of combat forces, you would envision a population security mission. Would you be prepared to do this unilaterally? How bad would it have to be before you would contemplate going back into Iraq?

A. I don’t think this is something that you can perfectly calibrate. You have to look at the situation on the ground. As I’ve already noted, I believe that there will be a spike in violence as we make a transition. Keep in mind that I think that there’s going to be more violence over the long haul by us not changing the course, so I’m weighing – again – bad options.

It is conceivable that there comes a point where things descend into the mayhem that shocks the conscience and we say to ourselves, this is not acceptable, anymore that what happened in Darfur is not acceptable. At that point, my strong, strong preference would be to work in concert with the international community. Now I think there are some things that we can do to prevent some of that, that are non-military. I think it’s important, and I mentioned this in the speech in September, for us to start setting up an international commission that is tracking some of the activities that are going on in Iraq and allow for the perpetrators of mass violence to be held accountable.

Now, obviously, we’re not in a very strong footing right now to do that, when we just provide immunity to Blackwater Security Forces. That undercuts that message. Part of what we want to have is a structure in place that says, ‘We’re starting to keep track of what’s going on and there’s an international mandate to insure that crimes against humanity are not taking place.”

Oh it’s a nice thought, vaguely stated, the capitulation already embedded.  So typical.  And if you read it carefully, he does not mean violence, “things that descend into mayhem” or “crimes against humanity” as perpetrated by US forces.  Not at all.

Such a valiant opponent of the war.  And for all I know he had Michelle AND Samantha in attendance and they just did not pipe up.

Q. Presumably, the purpose would be to discourage the sectarian acts that would compel you to go back into Iraq. In terms of enforcement, would you then try to apprehend the war criminals, the way it’s done in the Balkans, taken into custody? Or would it be to simply put them on a list?

A. If you’ve got a red line and that red line is crossed, part of what you want to see is the international community taking action. This is not going to happen smoothly, but it hasn’t happened smoothly in the Balkans. It hasn’t happened smoothly in Africa. But it begins to create a norm that people understand the international community may enforce and it offers not a perfect, but a modest prophylactic to the kind of activities that not just the United States, but all people around the world want to prevent.

Another meddler and quite anxious to be one. 

No one else really applies for the job, by now it advertises quite openly that it is blood work, making sure the gutters in the abattoir are filled.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just for ridiculous, poor Larry Johnson (and his sidekick Susan Hu)… it is impossible to open a diary based site that does not carry one of their pro-Hillary shill works.  How appalling. 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

The Washington Note, in support of the distasteful and lying parade of nearly elderly, center-right, congealing fuckball of pols past any prime they ever had (and the thread is a hoot, the commenters just lined up Gatling guns and shot at all those failed and passe pols), Clemons did, however, get off a good graf or two on the national situation:

[T]his kind of effort reminds me of former Council on Foreign Relations Vice President Nancy Roman’s “Both Sides of the Aisle,” a well-intended but policy-lite treatment on what it would take to rebuild common cause across party lines and foster more bipartisanship. One of her core recommendations was that Republican and Democratic Members of Congress travel together on Congressional Delegations (CODELs) more frequently.  [I'd support this if the trips are one way!  No Return!  Sans Retour, bar the borders against THEM!!--- Mcat]

Traveling together does not remedy the fact that Republicans and Democrats were complicit in the Iraq War. Both parties have been complicit in the appropriations corruption that came with obscene Homeland Security spending around the nation. Both parties have been complicit in refusing to solidly challenge the most aggressive expansion of Executive Branch authority in more than a century. Both parties have been complicit in failing to shore up investment in the American economy and its workforce. Both parties have been complicit in allowing Americans to be spied on. Both parties have been complicit in allowing low level soldiers to take the hit for Abu Ghraib and allowing the decision-makers in the White House and Pentagon to get a complete pass.

The situation we have today was produced by aggressive, high-fear tactics of minority political operations within both the Republican and Democratic parties — that then cowed a party membership that passively followed.

Mooo… 

What I see, still, is a passel of DLCers who want the really big Mcjob. Top of the greasy heap, flipping the world on the griddle.  And collecting  the perks.  I do think EE had some version of a Murtha moment (best I could ever figure he began to weep one day at a bedside at Walter Reed, it lasted for two years, almost to the day, and was all about him, so typical)  – EE, probably genuinely, wants to help people, in some missionary, welfare from above sense.  It is not enough.

 

       from Common Ills by isaiah

Christ, can they get nothing straight?  You know they all were thinking, 2063, or ’73 or…

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1. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 January 2008

A thought before I get out the door …

WHY do people think it’s better to compromise BEFORE THE DEBATE? Do they NOT understand what was intended by the founders when they set up all of those pesky checks and balances? Answers are found THROUGH intellectual (and not so) combat, NOT by a bunch of simps enjoying the benefits of the status quo trying to make the status quo a little NICER.

The system only works if people are launching verbal and written brickbats at each other. If the last seven (and more) years prove anything, it’s that too much consensus is DEADLY. Loud shouting of bs opinions is NOT the same as having a debate. THERE IS NO DEBATE IN THIS COUNTRY.

All of Edwards fine talk means nothing until he goes after the Military Industrial and Police Prison Law complexes. There can be no healthcare reform unless removing private insurance from the system is at least DISCUSSED.

A friend sent me this NY Times piece, which talks mostly about business, but it’s true for politics as well:

Andrew S. Grove, the co-founder of Intel, put it well in 2005 when he told an interviewer from Fortune, “When everybody knows that something is so, it means that nobody knows nothin’.” In other words, it becomes nearly impossible to look beyond what you know and think outside the box you’ve built around yourself.

This so-called curse of knowledge, a phrase used in a 1989 paper in The Journal of Political Economy, means that once you’ve become an expert in a particular subject, it’s hard to imagine not knowing what you do. Your conversations with others in the field are peppered with catch phrases and jargon that are foreign to the uninitiated. When it’s time to accomplish a task — open a store, build a house, buy new cash registers, sell insurance — those in the know get it done the way it has always been done, stifling innovation as they barrel along the well-worn path.

See you all later.

2. Miss Devore - 2 January 2008

I was surprised to see Susan Hu back posting at dk; more surprised when the diary I read was written to calm the waters from a previous diary she had written & that they both were hillshillaries.

3. marisacat - 2 January 2008

Hitchens slaps around the corrupt Iowa system

LOL

I was in Des Moines and Ames in the early fall, and I must say that, as small and landlocked and white and rural as Iowa is, I would be happy to give an opening bid in our electoral process to its warm and generous and serious people. But this is not what the caucus racket actually does. What it does is give the whip hand to the moneyed political professionals, to the full-time party hacks and manipulators, to the shady pollsters and the cynical media boosters, and to the supporters of fringe and crackpot candidates. It is impossible that the Republican Party could be saddled with a clown like Huckabee if there were a serious primary in Iowa, let alone if the process were kicked off in Chicago or Los Angeles or Atlanta. (Remember that not Iowa but its “caucuses” put Pat Robertson ahead of George H.W. Bush in the race for the GOP nomination in 1988.) The process might be a good way for Iowa to pick its party convention delegates, though I frankly doubt even that. It is an absolutely terrible way in which to select candidates for the presidency, and it makes the United States look and feel like a banana republic both at home and overseas.

4. marisacat - 2 January 2008

2

couple of weeks ago, LJohnson used his space at TPMCafe for a post of Susan’s.

I did enjoy the thread that just slapped them around, big time.

He tried to claim that neither he nor Susan was a supporter of any one candidate… then a commenter found her comments at the Hillary site.

Full of slobber and even a special “hello” to Daou from Susan Hu.

Spare us!

5. cad - 2 January 2008

Just enjoying the clueless, angry DK faithful spinning round their dolt leader, Markos. I feel safer just knowing he’s writing for Newsweek.

6. ms_xeno - 2 January 2008

We Mean You No Harm. Please Come Home.

The Grannies back in action on my fair side of the fair city. Always a good thing to see.

I’ve been very busy and also had wayyyyyyy too much rum punch yesterday, but I did want to wish you all the best for ’08.

Later.

7. aemd - 2 January 2008

I, too, have no fucking clue but I’ve taken to viewing the whole process, as IOZ remarked, through the lens of intrigue and “intrique within old royal and imperial courts”. Outwardly and mostly, staying within the bounds of accepted protocol but behind the scenes, stomping, shiv’ing, simpering and sucking their way to the top of the pile. Helped along by vain and venal couriers and toadies, who constantly shift alliances for their own benefit. All lusting for the power, money, sex, status, fame and luxury that running empire brings. (In this day and age, steady employment, alone, is a big lure. LOL)

This view doesn’t help in understanding the loons but it sure, as fuck, ups the entertainment value… 8-)

More, from IOZ, on our little empire.

http://whoisioz.blogspot.com/2008/01/he-doesnt-hate-me-he-lurves-me.html

8. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

Come along with me…

On January 1, 2008 – 6:07pm ljohnson said:

Nixon was a conniving, manipulative guy, but he knew what he was doing. I’m not touting his Vietnam policy, my point is he did not make amateur mistakes. Perhaps you remember a thing called the opening to China?
How about arms talks with the Soviets?
Helping Israel in the seven day war?
C’mon, wake up.

Now, following Johnson’s logic that Hillary has lots of foreign policy experience via osmosis since she was first lady and considering Johnson’s gushing endorsement of Nixon’s foreign policy, one must then conclude that Pat Nixon’s foreign policy experience equaled Hillary’s – right?

Johnson – once a Republican, always a Republican. Btw, what foreign policy experience does Larry have?

On January 1, 2008 – 8:30pm moat said:

I remember Cambodia, Chile, and El Salvador.
I will take your word that Nixon knew what he was doing.

On January 1, 2008 – 10:19pm tlees2 said:

“… he did not make amateur mistakes.”

Well, in domestic policy he made an amateurish mistake called Watergate. In foreign policy, read Anthony Summer’s Arrogance of Power (p 372). “The CIA’s top Vietnam specialist, George Carver, reportedly said that in 1969, when the North Koreans shot down a U.S. spy plane, Nixon became incensed and ordered a tactical nuclear strike.”. Kissinger called the Joint Chiefs and told them to do nothing until Nixon sobered up in the morning.

The man was a drunken kook, experienced or not.

9. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

I feel safer just knowing he’s writing for Newsweek.

Do you think his Newsweek editors would have let him get away with the tabloid headline “Obama Slams Gore”? No, neither do I.

10. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

Jan. 2 (Bloomberg) — Crude oil rose to $100 a barrel for the first time in New York as record global fuel consumption threatens to outpace production.

I’ll let you know when the rioting in the streets begins.

Yeah, right.

11. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008
12. marisacat - 2 January 2008

Nixon became incensed and ordered a tactical nuclear strike.”. Kissinger called the Joint Chiefs and told them to do nothing until Nixon sobered up in the morning.
commenter at TPM Cafe, via catnip

yup if they don’t go into the Oval as full on nutters, they soon are.

I’d love to think there was someone in the line up who can handle the Situation Room (the real one, at the WH) but a field of primped yahooos is what I see.

Very mindful of the coterie, for instance (and it is not just him) that danced around JE at the time of the vote for war… Shrum said to vote for it, EE said no.

…and the rest is history. Mrs Bill will always need Mr Bill I fear and when she does nto want or need him he will still push in… and Obama will answer to white faces.

The Clintons are their own crazed ‘if they lived in a Kentucky trailer court the cops would be out every week’ team and the others have no personal power, none.

Thanks, no.

***************

hmm just heard that Lantos will not run, he has cancer.

**************

aemd LOL

thanks for the link.

13. marisacat - 2 January 2008

just saw this in the Mike Allen/Politco email:

ZEITGEIST – The political press corps thinks (at least at this second):

1) Romney will beat Huck;

2) McCain and Edwards will surprise;

3) the Clinton-Obama outcome is unknowable, and will be a bigger story Friday morning than the Rs;

4) Ron Paul will beat a serious candidate.

We’ll see how close that is come Friday. It all sounds very logical and do-able.

14. JJB - 2 January 2008

liberalcatnip, no. 8,

Nixon was a conniving, manipulative guy, but he knew what he was doing.. . . Helping Israel in the seven day war?

That was The Six-Day War, Larry, and Nixon was a private citizen at the time, one who was given just about no chance to win the White House the following year. The French were Israel’s prime arms supplier, and they attacked one of our ships, the USS Liberty, and killed a lot of our sailors, an incident that is still shrouded in controversy.

I also remember Nixon launching secret bombing campaigns against Laos and Cambodia, as well as invading both of them, and turning them into charnel houses. And a coup he engineered in Chile that replaced one of the few bona fide democracies in South America (perhaps the only one) with a murderous dictatorship.

If Anthony Summers is to be believed, Nixon (in additional to being a serial liar and a heavy drinker who was prone to hit the sauce at times of stress) was under the care of a NY psychiatrist for many years, and took the most powerful psychotropic drugs then available while he was VP and POTUS. Hell, even Hitler was capable of acting rationally in international affairs, brilliantly manipulating the various great and small European powers against each other to get what he wanted until he finally went too far in his threats with Poland. And even then he pulled off an extraordinary coup with the Hitler/Stalin pact on the eve of WWII. Lunatics are quite capable of acting sane, the trouble is they inevitably revert to type.

15. BooHooHooMan - 2 January 2008

Kos trying to remain relevant:

This is WRT his site traffic
via Dr. Tight as a Tick* in Connecticut

The so-called drop in traffic seems somewhat exaggerated; traffic is driven by the news and events as much as anything else. Time will tell where the numbers go, but that, too, is likely driven by news and events, and (see RSS) technology.

Yep. The political news climate isn’t favorable for sustained interest in Dailykos. What they need is maybe a really big story involving Democratic Politics going on somewhere. That might do it…
How very Butt-Holacious. LOL. :D

http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&s=sm8dailykos&r=36

*”Tight as a Tick” re: DemFromCT (c) Marisacat 2007

16. marisacat - 2 January 2008

“It is only in the United States that a penniless survivor of the Holocaust and a fighter in the anti-Nazi underground could have received an education, raised a family, and had the privilege of serving the last three decades of his life as a member of Congress,” Lantos said in a press release. “I will never be able to express fully my profoundly felt gratitude to this great country.”

sigh, just go home, WE will be thankful.

17. BooHooHooMan - 2 January 2008

Here I thought Lantos was dead all this time.
You mean that corpse was actually alive in Congress?

18. marisacat - 2 January 2008

btw, paradox did a FP at TLC the other day on general traffic across the Blahgs… down he said.

But it has been down generally, or mostly down, since Fall of 2005. Kos even admitted it at the time…Bowers had a post up about it at the time and Kos commented in the thread.

I mean WHERE IS THE DEM PARTY FAITHFUL?? [LOL] Most important election evah!

19. marisacat - 2 January 2008

17

they wound him up and he ranted. 8) Somwehre between dead and alive, is my guess.

20. marisacat - 2 January 2008

it rides at the top of Marc Ambinder, apparently Obama has ads at Drudge.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/

wooo hoo. grist for the baby blahger mill.

a little farther down a synopsis of the Obama closing with a bit of a tape of it. SOunds like it is on to nonsense time..

21. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

It’s always the most important election ever. If kos actually believed that, he wouldn’t have booted all of the activists who are actually out there doing something to change things. The other day someone on the FP posted a list of kossacks who would be on the ground during the Iowa and NH caucuses – a pittance – a handful. You’d think that out of those (imaginary) 145,000+ kossacks, more than Elise and her fan club would be in Iowa. Absolutely pathetic. Yes, they’re all so “involved”, it’s just flipping amazing, isn’t it?

22. cad - 2 January 2008

Maybe traffic has droppd after the purging of actual progressives and others tire of being reminded of their TU status. Kos’s lame-brained opines most likely don’t pull people in. But it makes sense that Kos would rush to be embraced by the MSM, especially after he bragged about hanging up on requests to be on TV.

23. marisacat - 2 January 2008

from Ben Smith at politico (full text):

January 02, 2008
Read More: Hillary Clinton

Hillary on the press bus

Hillary stepped onto the parked press bus in Indianola for about 90 seconds to deliver bagels and coffee, and I’m not sure what this says about Clinton and the press — the chill, I think, comes from both sides — but it was a strange moment. She expressed her sympathies that we’re away from our families and “significant others,” tried a joke at the expense of her press secretary, and paused. Nobody even shouted a question, whether because of the surprise, the assumption that she wouldn’t actually answer, or the sheer desire to end the encounter.

One reporter compared the awkwardness to running unexpectedly into an ex-girlfriend.

“Maybe we should go outside and warm up,” said another, as Clinton exited into the freezing air.

If she stumbles badly in Iowaaaahhhhhhhhhh it could get brutal.

Families vs “significant others”

Why can’t people just say, “away from the people you love”.

24. JJB - 2 January 2008

MCat, no. 16,

“It is only in the United States that a penniless survivor of the Holocaust and a fighter in the anti-Nazi underground could have received an education, raised a family, and had the privilege of serving the last three decades of his life as a member of Congress.

True, but only because if he’d done it in, say, the UK, Canada, South Africa, etc., their legislative bodies are known by other names.

Looking past that little bit of word mongering, it’s a ludicrous comment. Did no Holocaust survivor manage to get an education and raise a family in Israel?

Henry Kissinger has occasionally run variations on this theme, once when Nixon named him Secretary of State, and HK said something like “it is only in the United States that a penniless refugee could be standing next to its President as his S of S.” Yeah, Henry, it’s not too likely Your Beloved Dick would have traveled to (say) New Zealand to find his top diplomat, funny how that works, isn’t it?

25. marisacat - 2 January 2008

JJB

oh I am so tired of their shit, from Lantos to Nancy to Feinstein to obama to Hillary to Edwards to all of the spouses and children.

This mongering that “only in America” can anyone make it. Lantos is always a fucking creep… I will be glad to be rid of him… I wonder if Jackie Spiers (who had said she will mount a run) gave him the willies. She works the hustings hard, from what I have seen over the years since Jonestown (she was with Leo Ryan on the tarmac).

GMAFB: only in America….

In fact these days people SHOULD go where there is health care, above all else.

26. marisacat - 2 January 2008

Happy New Year… they seem so intent on killing us all. From their blast proof bunkers, I would assume…

[P]erhaps the monumental destruction that would accompany any nuclear exchange helps explain people’s reluctance to discuss that scenario. Yet during the Cold War people not only discussed it but a veritable industry was built around parsing the literal fallout if deterrence should fail. Indeed, it was Herman Kahn, who founded the Hudson Institute, who in 1965 wrote the book On Escalation, which included an escalation ladder, whose final and 44th step was “spasm or insensate war”.

In a somewhat similar spirit, a recently released briefing has been making waves. Compiled by the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), it explored a series of conflict scenarios, such as Iran vs Israel, Iran vs the United States and Syria vs Israel. The conflicts are assumed to take place between 2010 and 2020.

The briefing is turning heads because it was written by Anthony Cordesman, who was a former director of intelligence assessment in the US Secretary of Defense office. He also holds the Arleigh A Burke chair in strategy at CSIS and has done numerous assessments of the Persian Gulf and the Middle East.

Despite all the concern over Iran’s ability to make nuclear weapons in the future, its hypothetical forces are not that formidable, as nuclear arsenals go. In the briefing it is assumed to have less than 50 nuclear weapons, most of them fission, possible some of them boosted, ie, fusion weapons. Most of them range in the 20 to 30 kiloton (KT)yield, with some having a 100 KT yield. For delivery it has 100 Shahab 3 missiles, as well as various planes and some cruise missiles. It is also assumed to have some chemical weapons. ::snip::

27. marisacat - 2 January 2008
28. BooHooHooMan - 2 January 2008

WOW! CHuck Todd must’ve just gotten a briefcase of Cashfrom the Clintons.
His lead off of Matthews pitch on Hardball was pure gush…

Holy shit.

29. marisacat - 2 January 2008

centrist boy… iirc his wife worked on the Kaine campaign.

But hell they are all centrists… just a matter of who gets powerrrrrr……….

30. marisacat - 2 January 2008

They reached out to us yesterday and we agreed to do it,” a Clinton aide said.

At an event in Cedar Rapids, Iowa Wednesday morning, Clinton taped a few lines — “a cameo,” as the aide put it — for use at the beginning of the show.

The campaign kept the taping a secret but word of it leaked this afternoon.

31. marisacat - 2 January 2008

Ambinder (full text):

Afternoon Update: The Democrats

02 Jan 2008 05:07 pm

** Barack Obama called Sec. Condi Rice last night to speak about the post-election chaos in Kenya, CBS’s Dean Reynolds reports. He later recorded a call for calm that the Voice of America station in the country will broadcast.

** Barack Obama joins Hillary Clinton in airing a two-minute closing argument on Iowa television stations during the 6pm news tonight.

** During those same newscasts, John Edwards will air a one-minute version of his latest television ad,

** Edwards claimed the endorsement today of 30 “leading” economists as his anti-corporate greed op-ed is published in the Wall Street Journal. Among the economists endorsing Edwards: James K. Galbraith from the University of Texas at Austin; and U Chicago’s Deirdre McCloskey.

** Jacqueline Jackson, wife of Rev. Jesse Jackson, endorses HRC and tapes a South Carolina radio ad on her behalf. The Rev. himself is supporting, somewhat tepidly, Barack Obama.

** Bob Novak predicts that Mitt Romney and Barack Obama will win their parties’ Iowa caucuses.

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32. BooHooHooMan - 2 January 2008

Dana Milbank has a good look at the Shitegeist in Iowa

33. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

But hell they are all centrists… just a matter of who gets powerrrrrr……….

Oh c’mon now. Everybody knows, now that kos has shared his Wise Thoughts™ on the subject, that there is no such thing as a “centrist”. There is no “centre”. Repeat after me while you click your heels together.

34. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

What a snotty little boy:

Half the country
by kos
Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 03:08:25 PM PST

No matter what some candidates may say (and I’m not referring to Obama since apparently you have to specifically mention a person’s name to refer to them these days), pretty much every candidate will start with half the country disliking him or her:

35. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

More from the boy blogger – pot meet kettle:

Obama has made a cottage industry out of attacking the dirty fucking hippies on the left, from labor unions, to Paul Krugman, to Gore and Kerry, to social security, and so on. People think I was being ticky tack with the Gore thing, and in isolation it would’ve been but a minor non-event. But it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back for me, yet another in a pattern of attacks against Democrats and their constituencies.
link

Look in the mirror, kos.

(What the hell is “ticky tack”?)

36. Hair Club for Men - 2 January 2008

Vintage Dennis Kucinich on Tucker Carlson. He (quite correctly) argues that the Democratic Party’s tried to rig the Iowa caucuses (and I’m assuming he’s talking about Tom Harkin) but he just doens’t make it clear enough to let anybody who isn’t already in the know understand it.

That’s the problem with Dennis. He’s not an elder statesmen people hang on for his every word. He’s an insurgent. He has to SHOUT out what he wants. He needs to say “THIS PROCESS IS CORRUPT STAY OUT OF IT” not “oh it sucks but vote for Obama”.

That’s the appeal of Gravel and Paul. They’re both your basic crazy old men who shout out the truth and embarass everybody.

37. Hair Club for Men - 2 January 2008

You know, if Edwards does crappy in Iowa and drops out, he could destroy Hillary. It’s clear that Edwards + Obama to a certain extent is the anti-Hillary vote. United, it could beat her.

38. melvin - 2 January 2008

Amnesty?

The government sent Iraq’s parliament speaker a draft bill on Tuesday for an amnesty for some detainees being held in Iraqi prisons . . .
~~~
The bill excludes those held in U.S. custody and those imprisoned for a variety of crimes ranging from terrorism, kidnapping and rape to antiquities smuggling, adultery and homosexuality.

Related, from Proceed at your own risk:

And yes, I know that it’s New Year’s Day and a time for light fare; but are the death squads targeting gay men in Iraq and Afghanistan taking the day off? How about the police officers and soldiers pulling gay men out of their beds in Saudi Arabia, Dubai and Iran? Are they kicking back and throwing down a few beers on this holiday?

The New York Times headline proclaims: Gay Muslims Pack a Dance Floor of Their Own. Amusing, light, perhaps slightly intriguing to some straight readers.

Gay Muslims Slaughtered Under the Watchful Eye of US Troops would have been a better headline.

39. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

I will never endorse (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
RevJoe

the whole concept of “endorsement” is ridiculous. I trust you all can make up your own minds without my input.

by kos on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 02:52:02 PM PST

Does that mean he’s going on vacation til December? (One can only hope.)

Didn’t he endorse Dean, Kerry, Warner, Webb etc etc or were my eyes deceiving me at the time?

40. Hair Club for Men - 2 January 2008

Didn’t he endorse Dean, Kerry, Warner, Webb etc etc or were my eyes deceiving me at the time?

Mark Who? Who was that immensely popular governer of a large borderline red state with a huge bankroll and organizations in 50 states that Kos as supporting again then suddenly dropped out?

What was his name again?

And what was he doing in those pictures Hillary has in that safe deposit box?

41. Hair Club for Men - 2 January 2008

I will never endorse

Definitely the party line for Big Box Bloggers. But then why have they consciously turned their sites over to inane chit chat about the primary horse race by discouraging debate on impeachment, the war, the Patriot Act, and other real issues?

42. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

41. They endorse The Establishment.

43. Hair Club for Men - 2 January 2008

They ditched their own traffic for THE PARTY. Had they been yelling bloody murder about impeachment and civil liberties all that traffic that went to Ron Paul would be going to them.

Instead, their traffic is static the week before the Iowa primaries.

44. melvin - 2 January 2008

I picture Iowans sitting around their dinner tables tonight, suddenly realizing that they need to read the last 800 dailykos diaries, each diarist solemnly issuing his/her important endorsement, in order to make a decision about whom to caucus for.

45. Hair Club for Men - 2 January 2008

I’ve only seen Iowa from the window of a Greyhound Bus.

Nebraska has better rest stops.

46. wilfred - 2 January 2008

LOL, Kos endorses the entire Democratic Party, he gets more ads that way. It’s all about $$ now that he jumped on the big Dem gravy train and made his site for Dem loyalists only and not about progressive politics.

47. ms_xeno - 2 January 2008

#42. But never fear, later they’ll find a way to blame it all on the feminists, the undocumented laborers, etc.

#43. melvin, I can’t believe my earthworm bin recommended you as a landscaping consultant. You’re a bad person.

48. marisacat - 2 January 2008

ooops got catnip out of Moderation, up at

commment 35

sorry for the delay!

49. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

kos pissed in clonecone’s Corn Flakes™, apparently. Shouldn’t the troll hunter be giving himself a troll rating for dissing The Master? Those people (and I use that term lightly) confuse me.

50. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

Yes, catnip desperately wants to break out of moderation. I think I’ll dye my hair purple.

51. melvin - 2 January 2008

49 Recced by Elise! The world is turned upside down.

52. Hair Club for Men - 2 January 2008

Olbermann on Huckabee. I Have to admit Keith has a good sense of comic timing. How many ways can you call Huckabee a moron in 5 minutes and not quite admit you’re saying it. Brilliant.

53. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008
54. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

P.S.: People who are that fucking attached to a presidential candidate need therapy.

55. Miss Devore - 2 January 2008

aw, so the whole troll-hunting crew that grew themselves on top comments is disillusioned. may they all wrestle in muddy meringue.

56. outofwater - 2 January 2008

Banned from dk, again. Is there a record?

57. liberalcatnip - 2 January 2008

may they all wrestle in muddy meringue.

That’s a waste of muddy meringue. I’m sure Elise could find a pile of pig manure in Iowa that would do the trick.

58. outofwater - 2 January 2008

Eventually even the most naive will realize that dk is not there to further their positions. Elise is late, but by no means the last.

59. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 January 2008

inspired by Marisacat above, I have something up at LSF: Shuttering the Window.

60. ms_xeno - 2 January 2008

Is the muddy meringue like a mud pie with meringues added ? Because I would much rather endorse that than anybody running for Mayor of Orangeville.

61. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 January 2008

Paul and Kucinich on Bill Moyers Friday.

62. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 January 2008
63. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 January 2008

OBAMA AND ROMNEY IOWA CAMPAIGN OFFICES OCCUPIED BY PEACE ACTIVISTS:

Des Moines – Opponents of the occupation of Iraq today occupied the Iowa campaign headquarters of presidential candidates U.S. Senator Barak Obama and former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, waiting for a response to a letter requesting them to oppose any more spending for the war or occupation and foreswear an attack on Iran.

Eight people were arrested at Obama’s Iowa campaign headquarters and four at Romney’s, in this, the third day of such nonviolent “direct actions” organized by “Seasons Of Discontent: A Presidential Occupation Project” (SODAPOP) since the presidential primary season began in Iowa late last year.

Explaining why Senator Obama’s office was targeted, Voices for Creative Nonviolence co-director, Dan Pearson, pointed to the Illinois Senator’s consistent support for war funding until a May, 2007 supplemental funding vote “which everyone knew was going to fail anyway. Even his proposed Iraq De-Escalation Act of 2007 wasn’t really anti-war. It allows for thousands of U.S. troops to stay in Iraq and others to be deployed to Afghanistan and other countries in the region when the only place they belong is back here.”

Asked what kind of welcome the demonstrators received at each office, independent photographer Mauro Heck said, “The Romney people were friendlier than at Obama’s actually. They received the demonstrators about as warmly as one could expect, but at Obama’s office they blocked the door at first.”

Independent journalist, Michael Gillespie reported that while he was covering the occupations he saw only one U.S. news outlet, a Des Moines TV station. “German, British, Italian and Japanese press were there, but no others from the U.S.”

64. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 January 2008
65. marisacat - 2 January 2008

Glen Ford at BAR finally lets it rip on Obama.

Barack Obama’s corporate-made and -financed presidential campaign is the product of three distinct factors, all mitigating against Black self-determination and political cohesion:

1) corporate decisions, made a decade ago, to provide media and financial support to pliant Black Democrats that can be trusted to carry Wall Street’s water;

2) a widespread desire among whites to prove through the safe and simple act of voting that they are not personally racist, and/or to dismiss Black claims of pervasive racism in society, once and for all;

3) a huge reservoir of Jim Crow era, atavistic Black thinking that refuses to evaluate Black candidates’ actual political stances, but instead revels in the prospect of Black faces in high places. A President Obama would, of course, be the zenith of such narrow, non-substantive, objectively self-defeating visions.

66. Hair Club for Men - 2 January 2008

But Francis Holland says I’m racist if I don’t vote for Obama.

67. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 January 2008

OOOO-Boy! We sure are in proud company:

Privacy International, a UK privacy group, and the U.S.-based Electronic Privacy Information Center have put together a world map of surveillance societies, rating various nations for their civil liberties records.

Both the U.S. and the UK are colored black for “endemic surveillance,” as are Thailand, Taiwan, Singapore, Russia, China and Malaysia.

68. marisacat - 2 January 2008

to be honest I think FLH runs a scam.

Like most he is really for Hillary. The rest is salad dressing. And he gets a charge out of some of the crap he pushes…

69. Madman in the Marketplace - 2 January 2008

found this via Chris Floyd, John Pilger goes after Labour:

As events have demonstrated, Blair and the cult of New Labour have destroyed the very liberalism millions of Britons thought they were voting for. This truth is like a taboo and was missing almost entirely from last week’s Guardian debate about civil liberties. Gone is the bourgeoisie that in good times would extend a few rungs of the ladder to those below. From Blair’s pseudo-moralising assault on single parents a decade ago to Peter Hain’s recent attacks on the disabled, the “project” has completed the work of Thatcher and all but abolished the premises of tolerance and decency, however amorphous, on which much of British public life was based. The trade-off has been mostly superficial “social liberalism” and the highest personal indebtedness on earth. In 2007, reported the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, the United Kingdom faced the highest levels of inequality for 40 years, with the rich getting richer and the poor poorer and more and more segregated from society. The International Monetary Fund has designated Britain a tax haven, and corruption and fraud in British business are almost twice the global average, while Unicef reports that British children are the most neglected and unhappiest in the “rich” world.

Abroad, behind a facade of liberal concern for the world’s “disadvantaged”, such as waffle about millennium goals and anti-poverty stunts with the likes of Google and Vodafone, the Brown government, together with its EU partners, is demanding vicious and punitive free-trade agreements that will devastate the economies of scores of impoverished African, Caribbean and Pacific nations. In Iraq, the blood-letting of a “liberal intervention” may well have surpassed that of the Rwanda genocide, while the British occupiers have made no real attempt to help the victims of their lawlessness. And putting out more flags will not cover the shame. “The mortality of children in Basra has increased by nearly 30% compared to the Saddam Hussein era,” says Dr Haydar Salah, a paediatrician at Basra children’s hospital. In January nearly 100 leading British doctors wrote to Hilary Benn, then international development secretary, describing how children were dying because Britain had not fulfilled its obligations under UN security resolution 1483. He refused to see them.

70. marisacat - 2 January 2008

it is just so hard to keep up with all those rules…

MSNBC’s First Read:

From NBC/NJ’s Aswini Anburajan and NBC’s Mark Hudspeth

Obama’s campaign proudly announced today the endorsement of former South Carolina Gov. Jim Hodges who will join his campaign as a national co-chair.

But the endorsement of Hodges may raise eyebrows among those who support Obama because he strongly decries lobbyists on the stump, frequently saying that he will not let them work in his White House or set the agenda in Washington.

Hodges is the founder of Hodges Consulting Group, a state-based lobbying firm he started in 2003. The firm is a subsidiary of Kennedy Covington Lobdell & Hickman, L.L.P, a law firm that represents clients in North Carolina and South Carolina.

*** UPDATE *** NBC’s Domenico Montanaro adds that Hodges is, in fact, a registered federal lobbyist, a search of the Senate Office of Public Records Lobbying Disclosure Act Database shows. He registered as such on June 1, 2007.

71. marisacat - 3 January 2008

Zogby final, from TPM Election Central:

Today’s Zogby tracking poll in Iowa, the final daily Zogby poll for the caucus, makes for an astounding outcome if it turns out to be true. Here are the numbers, as compared to yesterday’s tracking poll:

Democrats:

Obama 31% (+3)
Edwards 27% (+1)
Clinton 24% (-4)
Richardson 7% (+0)
Biden 5% (+1)

Republicans:

Huckabee 31% (+3)
Romney 25% (+1)
Thompson 11% (-1)
McCain 10% (-2)
Paul 10% (+1)
Giuliani 6% (-1)

72. BooHooHooMan - 3 January 2008

Sorry for the horserace rubbernecking. Here in Jersey unless you’re of the Saddle River set it’snot like you can expect to ride anyone of them anywhere,not even for a trot out by one of our SuperFund sites…

Anyways, Tweety on Morning Joe sees Obama by a good margin.
Says the son of Kenya especially with the country in such turmoil will send a message around the world, says it will be the international story that U.S. does a 180 from Bush….. the military bands by this logic I suppose will be “Firin’ UP” Kumbaya instead of Hail to The Chief”from here on out…

Yet Matthews had an interesting frame, an old saw really, that Hill, after all of her media saturation, the familiarity of D’s, “the people who know her best, then say No” — “rejected by 2/3 of the Democratic Party” will be the narrative…

Not exactly the higher math, cliche for ALL of the also-rans
Bronzed on the Prairie, but…………..WORKS FOR ME!!! :D…LOL

73. BooHooHooMan - 3 January 2008

FWIW, I see a thin JE, BO, then HRC…Edwards claiming a mandate while looking for bus fare, Obama bitching about winter break and college football, & Hillary closed-circuit-teleconferencing with AIPAC…

74. BooHooHooMan - 3 January 2008

Whoops double clutchI typed a conclusion about the spin on the second one.

75. marisacat - 3 January 2008

LOL a slash and burn between JE and BO is fine with me.

And I am sure the R have a couple operatives en route to Kenya (or back and debriefing) for a reprise of that visit BO made to the old homestake. The Dem party plumped it, very Fitzmas, but there were trickles the real story was a tad more non plussed.

76. marisacat - 3 January 2008

hmm both Biden and Dodd have said no deals.

and, per Ben Smith, Kucinich is not even out and about hawking his book. Earlier on I thought had sharpened his message over 4 years ago, but it all really deflated.

LOL Not that it, like, you know, [gum pop] matters.

77. Miss Devore - 3 January 2008

BHHM-your Jeanne Dixon moment is today. “Before the polls, before Bob Novak..BooHooHooMan.”

funny diary up at dk:

“Jerome Armstrong On Suicide Watch As His Poll Shows Obama Up
by alexm
Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 06:47:26 AM PST

I know that its been a bit confusing to the blogosphere to keep track of the constant moving of goal posts that is Jerome Armstrong trying to pretend he is not shilling for Edwards and using mydd as the official Edwards campaign blog but I think at this point I hope someone is keeping sharp objects and prescription drugs away from him as his last straw (The laughable Zogby poll) has just abandoned him.”

78. marisacat - 3 January 2008

fwiw

ARG last poll Iowahhhhhhhhhh

IOWA
Democrats Dec
16-19 Dec
20-23 Dec
26-28

Dec 31-
Jan 2

Biden 8% 8% 5% 8%
Clinton 29% 34% 31% 34%
Dodd 3% 2% 3% 2%
Edwards 18% 20% 24% 21%
Gravel – - – 1%
Kucinich 2% 2% 1% 1%
Obama 25% 19% 24% 25%
Richardson 7% 5% 5% 6%
Undecided 8% 10% 7% 3%

79. liberalcatnip - 3 January 2008

According to Martin, the entire blogosphere is backing Edwards.

That is, if you think “the blogosphere” consists of him, kos, Jerome Armstrong and whoever else is on the Townhouse list.

(Put that beverage down):

We’re fighters. Fighting is pretty much all we do.

With people on your blogs who disagree with your so-called “wisdom”, right?

80. liberalcatnip - 3 January 2008

Btw, when is the last time a senator won the presidency again?

81. BooHooHooMan - 3 January 2008

From the Dauphin:

Iowa prediction thread
by kos
Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 09:48:00 AM PST

Entrance poll:

Obama 29.5
Clinton 27
Edwards 26

Final results:

Obama 36
Edwards 31
Clinton 28

I’m pulling these numbers out of you know where, just like anyone else venturing predictions. This thing is so tight that anyone can win it. But bragging rights are important, so go for it — not just the order the top-three candidates will end up in, but the percentages they will get.

+

Please Delete DickWeed….(0 /-654)

There is a thread already up at marisacat’s…

BooHooHooMan Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 09:48:45 AM PST

82. BooHooHooMan - 3 January 2008

I kid of course, re my comment, only half the joke though where markos says “anyone can win it” ….Anyone that is who predicates their candidacy on protecting the baseline of an Imperial Military, while deferring to the Bemedaled to get a cut of the Budget…

83. liberalcatnip - 3 January 2008

The methodology of Martin. Meet “the blogosphere”:

Of course (4+ / 0-)

but the endorsements for Edwards over the last two weeks came in waves and even a couple of A-List Obama supporters changed their minds. In this case ‘the blogosphere’ is made up of the A and B list bloggers that endorsed late.

Booman Tribune

by BooMan23 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:14:31 PM PST

*
Who has endorsed Edwards? n/t (0 / 0)

Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool– how much worse lying lips to a ruler – Proverbs 17:7

by BarbinMD on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:18:55 PM PST

[ Parent ]
o
A few folks ay MyDD as far as I can tell. (1+ / 0-)

by RandySF on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:22:50 PM PST

[ Parent ]
o
you want a list? (3+ / 0-)

it’s 2:30 in the morning.

Bowers, Atrios, and Sean-Paul off the top of my head, as big namers. Among B-listers it’s been unanimous in my experience. I called for Dodd-Edwards in the Iowa caucus. I feel justified in this premise here.

Booman Tribune

by BooMan23 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:25:03 PM PST

84. liberalcatnip - 3 January 2008

Please Delete DickWeed….(0 /-654)

lol BHHM.

85. bayprairie - 3 January 2008

catnip!!!!

Why the Blogosphere Went for Edwards
by BooMan23
Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 10:48:26 PM PST

…We’re fighters…

LMAO!!!!!

The blogosphere did NOT go for Edwards (11+ / 0-)

when they had a chance to make a difference. They were too afraid of pissing off Her Majesty.

Now they’ve just discovered that the Democratic nominee will be either the DLC Establishment, or someone who doesn’t believe in the way the Netroots does politics. Either way, the next President won’t give a shit what Markos or Jerome or Chris or Jane or Duncan have to say.

They had their turn at the plate, and they just swung real late at strike three.

by Geekesque on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 10:57:10 PM PST

As someone (4+ / 0-)

has been very frustrated by my colleagues fear of Team Clinton, let me just say: I know what you’re saying.

by BooMan23 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:00:09 PM PST

This, by the way (5+ / 0-)

is the first time in print I have read what I have long suspected: Clinton neutralized the blogsphere leadership.

It’s a rather important comment if I understand it correctly.

by fladem on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:26:18 PM PST

You never wondered why Obama gets blasted (1+ / 0-)

about 100 times more often than Clinton does by the big blogs?

They’re afraid of her.

by Geekesque on Wed Jan 02, 2008 at 11:45:09 PM PST

Fighters! just like their MA’AN harry ried!!!

86. JJB - 3 January 2008

liberalcatnip, no. 79,

Martin has a genius for self-parody. You have to spend an awfully long time with your head in your lower intestines to be able to write something like this:

I don’t think the mainstream media or the people that work inside the Beltway really understand the blogosphere at all. We may not fully understand them either, but we have a better grasp of what makes them tick than they have of what makes us tick. We’re fighters. Fighting is pretty much all we do.

[snip]

We found a truth deficit and set out to provide the truth that was lacking. For those of us that have been doing this for years, we are steeped in this contrast between what is reported and what is true. We know who the liars are. We know who the lazy reporters are. And we know who has been battling with us (Russ Feingold, Chris Dodd) and who has not (Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford) [uhh, Martin, bubbala, you might want to rewrite that last sentence since as written it actually means that Messrs. Feingold and Dodd have been fighting against you and Holy Joe and Ford have not, and I don't think that's what you intended to say. - JJB]. We now have comrades-in-arms…people that we have been standing with day after day after day. And we have enemies that have undermined our mission at every opportunity.

[snip]

The policy differences between Edwards and Obama are minimal. But Obama’s tone deaf to the blogosphere. And, as a result, the blogosphere didn’t trust him. Take Armando:

…we do not criticize Obama’s political style on aesthetic grounds; we criticize his style because we think it will not work to actually EFFECT CHANGE. We believe that despite his being touted as the change candidate, his political style is the one LEAST likely to achieve progressive policy change.

His ‘style’ will be ineffective. Why did so many of us conclude this? It’s because we have watched Tom Daschle, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi try to negotiate with the Republicans (in the minority, the majority, no matter) and it does not work. We have watched the Dems talk tough and then back down time and time again. We’re done with conciliation and we don’t believe bipartisanship is possible without first crushing the Republican Party down to a stump.

So in other words, “I’m taking Style over Substance. Or something. And if you can’t figure out what I’m saying, I’ll quote somebody who actually says that we’re not opposed to Obama on ‘aesthetic grounds,’ but because we don’t like his political style, which means we’re opposed to him on . . . aesthetic grounds.”

I love that line about “crushing the Republican Party down to a stump.” These people couldn’t crush a paper cup.

Which for no reason reminds me of how irritated I was by that NY Times piece on Steve Gilliard. What a lot of notice for someone who was, at best, a marginal figure, even in the blogosphere, which is comprised of many marginal figures with delusions of grandeur (present company excepted, needless to say). Kind of a sad one too, from what I read, which was not surprising. I always thought that behind that swaggering bluster there lurked a shutaway with an active fantasy life, and after seeing of couple of pictures of him, my suspicions were confirmed (knowing what he looked like also made his writing about sexual matters even creepier than they first seemed).

87. JJB - 3 January 2008

Speaking of self parody, Reuters, the NY Times, George W. Bush, and Condi’s mouthpiece at the State Department have collaborated on what will someday be recognized as the defining masterpiece of the genre. If Postmodern explication is your thing (it’s not mine generally, but I don’t see how else you can deal with this piece), you can lose yourself for hours in this:

President George W. Bush urged Kenyans on Thursday to refrain from further violence and called on Kenya’s president and opposition leader to work together to resolve a bitter election dispute that has sparked bloody turmoil.

“It’s very important for the people of Kenya to not resort to violence,” Bush told Reuters in an interview at the White House.

Kenya, until now one of Africa’s most stable and prosperous countries, has been hit with a wave of violence that has killed at least 300 people over the disputed re-election of President Mwai Kibaki in a December 27 election.

Asked whether Kibaki and opposition leader Raila Odinga should share power, Bush said, “I believe that they have an opportunity to come together in some kind of arrangement that will help heal the wounds of a closely divided election.”

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has personally called on the rival leaders to work out a political solution and end the violence, the State Department said.

Rice telephoned Kibaki on Thursday morning and Odinga the previous night, urging them to “broker some political solution to the political crisis,” said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack.

“We’re urging them to come together and to have a political dialogue that leads to a political solution, whatever that may be, that puts an end to the crisis and an end to the violence,” McCormack told reporters.

The post-election turmoil has threatened Kenya’s reputation as one of Africa’s most promising democracies, strongest economies and favorite tourist destinations.

McCormack said the U.S. stance was to urge reconciliation and support a made-in-Kenya solution, without being “prescriptive” about any outcome in Nairobi.

If Bush and Rice had been senior crew members on the Titanic, they’d have spent the time between the iceberg collision and the ship’s final plunge to the ocean floor supervising their subordinates in keeping the furniture from smashing into the ship’s sides and picking up the china, cutlery, food, crystal, and beverages that fell on the floor.

As usual, the only real news in that story is what wasn’t mentioned, i.e., Condi Rice, the top diplomat of the most powerful nation in the history of the human race, apparently is no longer willing to show her face in public as the world goes to hell around her (and us). She’s literally phoning it in, and having a subordinate relate her doings.

88. marisacat - 3 January 2008

catnip comment at 83 was rescued from Moderation…

sorry! for the delay..

8)

89. JJB - 3 January 2008

liberalcatnip, no. 80,

Btw, when is the last time a senator won the presidency again?

JFK, 1960. Prior to that, you have to go back to Warren Harding.

You’re much better off holding no office at all. Since 1950, it’s gone 4 times to men who were private citizens at the time of their election – Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, Jimmy Carter, and Ronald Reagan.

90. D. Throat - 3 January 2008

They are so full of shit they ALL are for Hilliary — every last one of these lying, bought and paid for “progressives”…. ever since Bubba’s Whites Only Fish Fry in Harlem.

What they are doing now is setting the stage for Hilliary to shift her caucus goers to Edwards… there is no way in hell she is going to walk away from Iowa with an Obama win.

91. D. Throat - 3 January 2008

Early Afternoon Iowa Quick Hits

by: Chris Bowers
Thu Jan 03, 2008 at 13:27:14 PM EST

Five quick hits on Iowa:

* There are roughly as many troops in Iraq as there are Iowa caucus-goers

* Thank you from the Dodd campaign.

* BooMan on why it seems like so many bloggers are backing Edwards. I think he has it about right.

92. marisacat - 3 January 2008

hey hey D Throat…

welcome back frm the deep….

8)

93. marisacat - 3 January 2008

It’s positivel;y balmy in Iowahhhh….

people will be skateboarding to caucus…

LOL

around 32 and sunny…
;)

94. D. Throat - 3 January 2008

Hilliary became vulnerable the second the Dems won both the House and the Senate back. She couldn’t use the “Boogey Man Defense” that had shuffled Kerry to the nomination… people are more at ease and now that the “house” is not on fire and flames somewhat under control…(even though the Dems in DC refuse to pick up the fire extinguishers)… PEOPLE WANT CHANGE…. Hilliary ain’t “change she is part and parcel of the problem.

Hilliary suffers from the same dillusion as Joe Trippi. They both think that they are smarter than the ones that brought them to the dance… only to find out that once they go “solo”… their egos where bigger than their talents.

Hilliary needs to sit thru CNN’s “True Believers” again… Joe Trippi was supposed to be the Pied Piper to leads away dean’s minions to more acceptable pastures… That didn’t go quite as he had planned…. now did it… he got a few white boys to follow him into the woods and play at being “movement leaders”…. then he went a took a big check from the networks.

It is sad and embarrassing that they insist that they are a progressive movement when they have ushered in some of the most extreme right wing Dems in decades, they tampered down dissent on ALL PROGRESSIVE ISSUES be it that they were too icky, retro and/or did not make good strategic sense for their pocket books.

Now they are whining that Obama didn’t reach out to them… YES, the same white boys who could not find more than 10 Black people in all of Chicago to come and fete Kos. If they were so blatantly dishonest it would be funny.

I hope and pray that this IS the end to this little “movement of White boyz”…. good riddance.

95. D. Throat - 3 January 2008

“Just when I thought I was out…. they pull me back in” ….by the massive lies and gross dishonesty of these “progressives”

96. D. Throat - 3 January 2008

Something is in moderation

97. cad - 3 January 2008

“They banned and took away ratings from “every” group of candidate supporters – not because it was necessary, but because they wanted to appear “fair”. They took ratings away from people who had never abused them because they don’t pay enough attention to what actually goes on. They banned people who were threatened and allowed people to stay who were doing the threatening.”

Elise, please provide proof of these outrageous smears against DK community admins and members. If people were banned, they probably brought it on themselves. Please delete this post. Read the FAQ.

And Kucinich just lost his brother two weeks ago, so you can’t blame the man for losing steam.

98. marisacat - 3 January 2008

oh I realise he lost his brother… but I would just suggest he not do this again in 2012.

To me both runs look highly quixotic. And I believe anyone who wants to should run, say what they want and with almost any viability be included in debates at least til Super Tuesday, certainly…. Nor did Nader in any way “lose” anything for the Dems, etc…

The overall trajectory has not been great. And what I see, both times he does a caucus deal that feeds the party – or this go round, at least a large faction within the party.

99. JJB - 3 January 2008

D. Throat, no. 94,

It is sad and embarrassing that they insist that they are a progressive movement when they have ushered in some of the most extreme right wing Dems in decades . . .

Haven’t you heard? “Extreme right wing” is the new Progressive!

And in a country where people to the far-right of an already very conservative political party like Gerald Ford, George H.W. Bush, and Barry Goldwater can be called “moderates,” or “libertarians” by people with no memory of what these people actually stood for, it will be ever thus.

100. D. Throat - 3 January 2008

Kucinich is what the establishment Dems want the left to be seen as: A kooky lune…. who rants and raves but at the end of the day gets in line.

Not ONCE in the 2004 election did Kucinich attack Lieberman… but saved all of his venom to do the establishments bidding by attacking the only other anti war candidate Dean. Kucinich is a fraud and will always be one. Yes, he says the right things… but only if he knows they are ineffective.

His true colors came out when he had his people caucus for a pre-unrepentant “I voted for the war” Edwards.

BTW did I mention I have no one in this race… if Obama wins all it means it that now the Daily machine will be “the Boss”… but act the same as the old “boss” ie Al From and the DLC.

Edwards went from a chicken hawk to Che overnight… they are all liars.

101. marisacat - 3 January 2008

its the old conservative pro war pro apartheid (oh they use soft language and install regression with a prog face) Dem party… with none of the liberal factions really viable.

Tho they, the much more liberal than they realise they are base, troops out and votes for the conservatives.

Basically it is a Christian Democrat party. Indentured as handmaiden to the Republican party.

IMO.

One reason I am gone, I know they are totally disinterested in my sort, but for my vote.

102. marisacat - 3 January 2008

Actually, rethink that… the party really should be called:

Christian Nationalist party.

Drop Democrat, small or large D

103. D. Throat - 3 January 2008

Well they are gearing up for something… why else would the majority of the so called “Democratic” bloggers now officially and PUBLICALLY classify themselves as “Libertarian

It is also no coincidence that Huckabees’s taking points mimic to the tee Rahm Emanuel’s “The Plan” for flat taxes…. makes a nice little segue way for all of these newly minted “libertarians” like Kos and “Conman” Armstrong

104. BooHooHooMan - 3 January 2008

Bing Freakin Oh Lawdy Hallelujah -

They are so full of shit they ALL are for Hilliary — every last one of these lying, bought and paid for “progressives”…. ever since Bubba’s Whites Only Fish Fry in Harlem. – D. Throat

105. Hair Club for Men - 3 January 2008

Basically it is a Christian Democrat party. Indentured as handmaiden to the Republican party.

Actually the Christian Democrats in Europe were handmaidens to the American Democratic (and Republican under Eisenhower) party.

Welfare state at home and complete deference to the USA in the Cold War.

So yes, if you substitute “Americans” for “Republicans” it’s a good analogy. But there’s one difference Adenauer and the Xtian Democrats were no fools. They knew that if they deferred to the USA they’d get a lot of American $$$ on reasonable terms.

The Democrats now on the other hand are deferring to the Republicans and they’re not getting shit.

106. marisacat - 3 January 2008

new thread…

LINK

107. marisacat - 3 January 2008

the old joke…

BOAC the old name for the UK airline.

Bring over American Cash.


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