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Debate, debate, debate…. 21 February 2008

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, Afghanistan War, AFRICOM, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Iran, Iraq War, Israel/AIPAC, U.S. Senate, WAR!.
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well, that is what they call it.

Obama, Clinton primed for Texas showdown
With the Democratic presidential nomination in the balance, Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama will face off during a CNN debate in Austin, Texas, tonight at 8 p.m. ET. The debate is being held in partnership with Univision and the Texas Democratic Party. Full story

If the past few days are any indication, we have a wingding of an eight plus months ahead…

Ready, aim, fire!  Bring it on!  Let’s Roll!

Howard Zinn pops up:

   In 1934, early in the Roosevelt Presidency, strikes broke out all over the country, including a general strike in Minneapolis, a general strike in San Francisco, hundreds of thousands on strike in the textile mills of the South. Unemployed councils formed all over the country. Desperate people were taking action on their own, defying the police to put back the furniture of evicted tenants, and creating self-help organizations with hundreds of thousands of members.

    Without a national crisis-economic destitution and rebellion-it is not likely the Roosevelt Administration would have instituted the bold reforms that it did.

    Today, we can be sure that the Democratic Party, unless it faces a popular upsurge, will not move off center. The two leading Presidential candidates have made it clear that if elected, they will not bring an immediate end to the Iraq War, or institute a system of free health care for all.

    They offer no radical change from the status quo.

    They do not propose what the present desperation of people cries out for: a government guarantee of jobs to everyone who needs one, a minimum income for every household, housing relief to everyone who faces eviction or foreclosure.

    They do not suggest the deep cuts in the military budget or the radical changes in the tax system that would free billions, even trillions, for social programs to transform the way we live.

    None of this should surprise us. The Democratic Party has broken with its historic conservatism, its pandering to the rich, its predilection for war, only when it has encountered rebellion from below, as in the Thirties and the Sixties. We should not expect that a victory at the ballot box in November will even begin to budge the nation from its twin fundamental illnesses: capitalist greed and militarism.

    So we need to free ourselves from the election madness engulfing the entire society, including the left.  ::spin::

No, it is empire that matters:

[W]ith all eyes on the number of troops physically stationed in Iraq, one of the ways in which further reductions will be allowed is by shifting missions to other Persian Gulf countries, a process that is already underway. In Kuwait, for instance, the Army is completing the finishing touches on a permanent ground forces command for Iraq and the region, one that it describes as being capable of being a platform for “full spectrum operations” in 27 countries around southwest Asia and the Middle East.

Permanently deployed with the new regional headquarters in Kuwait will be a theater-level logistical command, a communications command, a military intelligence brigade, a “civil affairs” group and a medical command. “These commands now have a permanent responsibility to this theater,” Lt. Gen. James J. Lovelace told the Mideast edition of Stars and Stripes. “They’ll have a permanent presence here.”

The Air Force and Navy, meanwhile, have set up additional permanent bases in Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Oman. By permanent I mean large and continuing American headquarters and presences, most of which are maintained through a combination of coalition activities, long-standing bilateral agreements and official secrecy. Tens of billions have been plowed into the American infrastructure. Admiral William J. Fallon, the overall commander of the region, was just in Oman this week after a trip to Iraq to secure continuing American military bases in that country.

When a war with Iran loomed and World War III seemed to be gaining traction in the Bush administration, this entire base structure was seen as the “build-up” for the next war. The build-up of course began decades ago, but since 9/11, the focus has been almost exclusively “supporting” U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. Iran is there, but to interpret the planting of the American flags and the moving of chess pieces as being focused on Tehran is to miss what is really going on.

Regardless of who is elected, in the coming year U.S. combat forces in Iraq will undoubtedly continue to contract to a fewer number of combat brigades and special operations forces focused on counter-terrorism and the mission of continuing to train and mentor the Iraqi Army and police forces. Much of the “war” that is already being fought is being supported from Kuwait and other locations, and the ongoing shifts seem to point to an intent to increasingly pull additional functions and people out of harm’s way.

Of course they will not be out of harm’s way at all, because a permanent American military presence in the region brings with it its own dangers and provocations. But most important what it brings for the next president is a fait accompli: a pause that facilitates a drawdown that begins to look a lot like a continuation of the same military and strategic policy, even at a time when there is broad questioning as to whether this is the most effective way to fight “terrorism.”

And that is Arkin in the Wapo, really just a dulled down check lister.  No live drama, no flowing blood. 

************************************************

UPDATE, 2:24 pm

IOZ is on target today… beneath a picture bearing the SPQR of the Roman Empire, here is a snip:

[I]f any doubts remained that Democrats are principally interested in wielding the aggregated powers of the “unitary executive” to their own purposes and ends, it should be dispelled by the ongoing primary fight over which Democrat will be ready on “day one” to step in as the “commander in chief.” Clinton and her advisors specifically use the term in its neologistic glory, but both she and Obama discuss their presidential ambitions in dictatorial terms.

I use the word here in its Roman sense: one person, “temporarily” empowered through some democratic or parliamentary process, to wield what is essentially total control over the mechanisms of the state. The Commander in Chief of the United States of America, military, citizens, and all. In large part, Democratic partisans share this desire, as their barely-concealed envy at the subordinate relationship of the Republican congress to our Lord Protector reveals.

Let me put it to you straight: I am not looking forward to the next four years.

Hail.

    snitched from IOZ

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Comments»

1. wilfred - 21 February 2008

Glad the debate is on CNN, that way I can still get my Olbermann fix tonight if I get home in time. Dueling Dembots…..

2. marisacat - 21 February 2008

oh btw, wilfred, thanks for the arkin link… I had meant to mention that…

AND I also left out this… via Tom Dispatch (less wordy than usual), Greenburg on waterboarding, torture, the Torture Museum in Prague…and the general horror.

3. NYCO - 21 February 2008

So what is the deal with Edwards anyway? Dare I hope that he will endorse neither Clinton nor Obama?

Although his silence makes me worry more about the state of his wife’s health…

4. mattes - 21 February 2008

Even as Obama surges in primaries,
he faces new Israel-related criticism

Soros, the billionaire philanthropist, has donated to Obama’s campaign. He has also been critical of Israel and of pro-Israel orthodoxies, but the Holocaust survivor has cast his criticisms as mindful of Israel’s security.

Recently, he considered funding an alternative pro-Israel lobby, one that would more aggressively advocate for a two-state solution, while also maintaining Israel’s security needs. Lasky links to a Soros article last year in the New York Review of Books to show that the financier is a “fierce foe” of Israel. In it, Soros describes his thesis as follows: “Military superiority is necessary for Israel’s national security, but it is not sufficient.”

Despite what Obama supporters and some observers say are distortions and falsehoods, there’s enough that would worry parts of the pro-Israel community, particularly the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and its allies.
more:

http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/article/2008022020080220brzezinskipower.html

5. marisacat - 21 February 2008

well she was visible in the overhead shots of the drive, as Obama departed the meet.

She was missing for stretches on the campaign trail, it usually was not mentioned. A full month across October into November, back in December…

She came out here several times, to SF, for various meets and greets and I assume fundraising… and more than once looked very unwell.

But who knows.

6. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

Question for the typical Daily Kosnik:

“If Obama chose Lieberaman as his running mate would he still get your vote?”

7. NYCO - 21 February 2008

Zinn says, Without a national crisis-economic destitution and rebellion-it is not likely the Roosevelt Administration would have instituted the bold reforms that it did.

Let’s cut to the chase! Roosevelt wouldn’t have instituted reforms if it weren’t for the red menace.

I understand that commies don’t even rise to the level of a joke today, but they were considered a serious threat to America in the 1920s and even into the ’30s.

8. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

I understand that commies don’t even rise to the level of a joke today, but they were considered a serious threat to America in the 1920s and even into the ’30s

It wasn’t just Communists. It was a populist tradition that ran from the far left to the far right and that Roosevelt needed to coopt and neutralize.

This is a great book descrbing the Bonus Marchers (of whom the Communists were only one faction).

http://www.amazon.com/Bonus-Army-American-Epic/dp/0802777384/ref=pd_bxgy_d_img_b

Part of it demonstrates how Roosevelt took a lot of the programs suggested by the Bonus Marchers and neutered them (as well as racially segregated them).

The angriest thing that Hemingway ever wroter (an essay called “Who Killed the Vets”) is an attack on Roosevelt for betraying the bonus marchers and sending them down to horrific labor camps in Florida (where they were killed in the Key Largo Hurricane).

9. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

one of the sorta liberal pundits, I think it was Conason, told a story on some presentation I watched on C-Span in ’04. He said that some labor leaders confronted FDR complaining that he needed to do more for the unions and workers. FDR said, “make me,” which Conason explained as FDR pushing them to put him in a position where he could do what he wanted politically w/o going down for it.

Sounds about right for me.

Oh, and speaking of commies:

To Recruit Conservatives Into Academia We Need Socialism!

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

oops, what THEY wanted politically … et cetera.

11. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

one of the sorta liberal pundits, I think it was Conason, told a story on some presentation I watched on C-Span in ‘04. He said that some labor leaders confronted FDR complaining that he needed to do more for the unions and workers. FDR said, “make me,” which Conason explained as FDR pushing them to put him in a position where he could do what he wanted politically w/o going down for it.

I’m sure that was part of it but I think it was more the general atmosphere of crisis and the consensus among the liberal elites that capitalism simply wasn’t working.

(the Soviet Union was experiencing tremendous economic growth exactly at the same time the economies in the west were collapsing)

So Roosevelt reached into the pot and started dishing out the stew of progressivism that he inherited from both parties, from Jennings Bryan all the way down to Al Smith (Roosevelt’s mentor in New York).

Unfortunately the need to placate the southern Democrats (as well as Roosvelt’s own racism) led him to segregate a lot of these programs.

The US Communist party was never quite the force its supporters (and detracters) make it out to be.

Huey Long’s populism was a much bigger influence.

12. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

Black Agenda Report has a bunch of new stuff up. The latest Freedom Rider:

It was bad enough that a representative of our legal system insulted foreign governments, but Scalia spoke for Bush when he said that world opinion was of no importance. “I don’t look to their law, why do they look to mine?” In other words, shut up, assume the position and let Uncle Sam have his way. Why shouldn’t Scalia speak those words? They have worked so well for his president.

The lack of movement politics and dependence on the hapless Democratic party have made the Bush winning streak possible and guarantee that it will continue after he leaves office. John McCain proudly asserts that the occupation of Iraq might go on for 100 years. Clinton and Obama claim they will draw down troops but with so many conditions attached that the occupation will never end. The Iraqi death toll will continue to mount in a Clinton or Obama administration.

Without impeachment, Bush will continue his awful policies without opposition. The goal of securing a Democratic victory will by pyrrhic. A Democratic president will not undo what Bush has wrought. Whether John McCain or a Democrat wins in November 2008, Bush will have stolen yet another election.

And the Amiri Baraka piece:

Poet, playwright and longtime activist Amiri Baraka has a different take on the Obama candidacy, and the responsibility of the politically conscious. In this speech he cautions those who imagine Obama will make a difference without a strong left movement pressuring and pushing him further and faster than he and his corporate backers really want to go.

“Even if there’s gonna be a black president,” said Baraka in Newark early this month, “if we don’t do nothin’ he won’t do nothin’… the less we do, the less we can expect Obama to respond to us…”

Baraka took to task those who criticize Obama without actually organizing anything on the ground in their communities.

“The question,” he said, “is what will you do, where will you go with the one opening that they leave you which they claim is democracy.”

13. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

oops, messed up blockquoting the Baraka quote. Sorry.

14. marisacat - 21 February 2008

Move America Forward is running ads locally – think it will start tonight or tomorrow, agsint the Berkeley City Council for the whole marine/recruiter flap.

The ad demands an apology (The council rescinded the letter but has declined to apologise)

Then the ad goes national via cable.

This should be fun.

15. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Oooo…Univision’s Jorge….prrrr

16. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

“If Obama chose Lieberaman as his running mate would he still get your vote?”

hehe…or even better…what if he chose someone with an R beside their name? All in the name of bipartisanship. Woohoo.

17. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

I’m not saying I’d be in favor of seeing Move America Forward get their asses kicked in Berkeley by some teenage anarchists with baseball bats.

I’m not even saying I’d enjoy seeing them get pelted with eggs and stink bombs.

And I’m certainly not suggesting that anybody fill up balloons with red paint.

They might record it on a video camera and post it on the intertubes which is why I’d really be against strolling by Freepers with video cams and “accidentally” flashing a Nikon SB-800 or some high powered flash right into the lens.

Because all that stuff would be wrong.

18. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008
19. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

Obama’s not getting my vote now.

20. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

It’s wonkish Obama. He fell off the Hopemobile.

21. melvin - 21 February 2008

I am sorry to be so shallow, but watching the debate online, I have spent all the HRC time so far trying to figure out the wierd effect of the necklace running into the yellow piping on the collar. It is just wacko.

22. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

He just stole Napolitano’s line again. Drink!

23. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

the wierd effect of the necklace running into the yellow piping on the collar.

It does rather look like a bridle.

24. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Mention Canada…c’mon…”Canada”…hello?

25. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

Question I’d like to hear:

Mrs. Clinton. As we’ve recently seen, Castro’s successor in Cuba, his brother, demonstrates the undemocratic nature of dynastic politics.

Do you see any similarity between Fidel Castro choosing his brother to succeed him and Bill Clinton chosing you his wife to help circumvent the two term limit for the White House?

26. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Oh give it a rest, you two. Make the first move and get on with it. What are you so afraid of? You both know you’ll be headed off to China in no time flat so don’t give me that “human rights” crap.

27. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Obama’s drawing horns on the little pic of Hillary he has there,

28. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

Hillary’s sucking off the Miami lobby so hard she’s turning into Monica right in front of our eyes.

29. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Is Obamalama wearing eyeliner?

30. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

“We stand above the rest of the world at this moment in time.”

Jeebus H Christ.

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

Brad Blog — Note to Daily Kos Gatekeepers: Ban Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Immediately!!!.

WARNING: Markos Moulitsas and the other front-pagers and gatekeeping denialists at Daily Kos should not watch the above interview! If Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has a user record over there, you should go ahead and ban him right now! Make sure he’s never allowed to write at dKos! In this interview, he has the temerity to talk about concerns with the way the New Hampshire Primary Election was conducted! Can you believe it?! And he’s even a Hillary Clinton supporter! Clearly, he, like The BRAD BLOG, is “doing far more harm than good”, as you like to say, for the Election Integrity movement! What will the Democratic Party and the Mainstream Corporate Media say about your site if that “nutter” Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is allowed to post over there?! Quickly — before he damages the credibility of your site — you better go ahead and ban RFK Jr. in advance! As you know, better safe than sorry, boys!

32. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

We stand above the rest of the world at this moment in time

Didn’t he say that was Bush’s attitude and he disagreed with it?

33. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

Hillary’s sucking off the Miami lobby so hard she’s turning into Monica right in front of our eyes.

She’s just fantasizing that it’s Barry Goldwater standing in front of her.

34. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

“We stand above the rest of the world at this moment in time.”

“And we’re pinching a big, corn-filled loaf off on it’s head.”

35. marisacat - 21 February 2008

She’s just fantasizing that it’s Barry Goldwater standing in front of her.

ain’t it the truth…

36. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

32. Did he? I was sure he said and was applauded for it.

lol@BradBlog

37. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Obama’s doodling.

38. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Well, Canada kind of got a mention there. applause

39. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Hillary’s winning this one so far. Obama’s like one of those bobble-headed dogs nodding along.

40. wilfred - 21 February 2008

Olbermann doing a great Timeline of Bushco’s Terra shit, so jaw-dropping to see their awfulness all run together.

41. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Why do politicians always talk about “the American people” like they’re not part of them?

42. marisacat - 21 February 2008

Can’t we just seize the rest of the Great Lakes… and set up little non permanent emcampments on the OTHER shore? And maybe move inland, a nice small base near Niagra Falls. Just to fully protect the border, you know.

I mean, what’s to worry. We’re friends, right?

Right?

43. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

I’ve never quite gotten this panic about how English is under threat. It’s one of the two most spoken languages in the world. It’s not like its going anywhere.

Jeez. It sounds like these people are talking about some obscure native American or East European language.

44. marisacat - 21 February 2008

… and you know us, we are the The Great and The Good. OUr big interest is Democracy for all, we are sticklers for Human Rights… we WILL bring China around. And then … for its own good split it up. The Yugoslavia Model which is working so very well.

It’s better to be our friend. Remember, we can shoot you down frm the heavens. We just proved it.

45. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Commercial time: bring on the dancing hot dogs

46. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

that timeline on Countdown is kinda stunning, even though I know all of it.

Not that the donks will ever do anything about it.

47. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Can’t we just seize the rest of the Great Lakes

TRY IT. lol

Quite the mess over there in the Balkans. I was listening to a retired Canadian general today talking about the situation with disgust about intervening in conflicts like that. He basically said “just let them shoot it out and we’ll come in and help clean it up later”.

48. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

All hat, no cattle. Drink!

49. wilfred - 21 February 2008

Lots of people have been coming to Olbermann over the past year and I’m just so happy he keeps educating people who came to this awareness later than the rest of us here.

50. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

Wisconsin Senator Feingold Prepares to Endorse Presidential Candidate

Feingold tells the Leader-Telegram newspaper in Eau Claire that he’s — quote — “highly inclined” to vote for Obama.

The Illinois senator beat Clinton in Tuesday’s state primary, 58 percent to 41 percent.

Feingold says that’s a very impressive margin. He points out the inspiration and energy that seem to follow Obama’s campaign, and adds that Obama is as sharp as anyone he’s met.

51. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

OOOO…she went there…she brought up the clueless Kirk Watson moment. lol

52. marisacat - 21 February 2008

yes the editor of the last edition of the OED declared it the “most alive language” on earth.

It is flexible language, everyone who speaks it enlarges it and changes it… and it is very alive.

53. wilfred - 21 February 2008

Switched over to the debate, Hillpac looks like Count Chocula, is this her attempt at getting back the black vote or is she just appealing to cereal lovers? :)

54. marisacat - 21 February 2008

51

Kirk should be happy … a second 15 mnutes of fame.

55. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

lol wilfred…I actually thought this was her best-looking pantsuit so far, but you make a good point. ;)

56. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

And what about that Napolitano line you stole (oops “borrowed”), Obama? Huh?

57. melvin - 21 February 2008

On the plagiarism question, I’ll take the center square to block.

Where’s Paul Lynde when we need him?

58. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

What a pompous ass. “And I gotta admit. Some of them [my speeches] are pretty good.”

59. wilfred - 21 February 2008

I’m staying with the debate now that Olbermann is over as it’s funnier than Dan Abrahms.

Is it me or is Campbell Brown channeling Mary Catherine Gallagher from Saturday Night Live? I keep expected her to smell her armpits.

60. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

rofl melvin…you know you’re old when…

61. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

#52

which language? Chinese?

I get lost easily these days.

62. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

Didn’t Lloyd Bentson steal that “you’re no Jack Kennedy” line from Paul Begala?

63. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Woohoo! “Change you can xerox.” lol

64. wilfred - 21 February 2008

if you look at “The You Tube”…. has Hillary been on the Internets again?

65. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

“borrowed”, HcfM, “borrowed”…

66. melvin - 21 February 2008

Claws out at last!

Look at that youtube, Barack!

67. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

Mandarin still beats English by almost 2 to 1

http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html

Spanish and Hindi take 3rd and 4th.

68. marisacat - 21 February 2008

Madman sorry, English.

I was replying to HC up thread at, I think … 43.

All thsi manufactured stress over preserving English agaisnt the invading immigrant hordes.

69. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Obama’s paper is rising up from the table now. It’s a miracle!

No…wait…maybe it’s the air conditioning.

70. marisacat - 21 February 2008

as I recall the OED guy was not counting heads mouthing English… he meant it is constantly changing. Absorbing and going on…

71. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

All thsi manufactured stress over preserving English agaisnt the invading immigrant hordes

I think that maybe the “protect our borders” crowd is so worried about English dying out because they rarely hear it spoken well.

Yeah, there are some fairly literate people in the “protect our borders” crowd but they’re pretty much just playing on rube anxiety.

72. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

he meant it is constantly changing

Kudos to dubya for that.

73. marisacat - 21 February 2008

ohhh Berkeley City Council is now supposed to apologise to the marines and TO ALL services.

LOL.

Good Luck.

74. melvin - 21 February 2008

Oh screw this. Just give them each a broken whiskey bottle and let em have at it.

I realize this would give HRC the advantage.

75. wilfred - 21 February 2008

#69 LOL Catnip…. maybe Barack is just breaking wind like crazy.

76. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

Oh screw this. Just give them each a broken whiskey bottle and let em have at it.

Pistols man. Can’t you liberals ever support the Second Amendment?

77. marisacat - 21 February 2008

oh English only is a form of Whites Only.

Anyone wants to do well in mainstream America, they learn English. Passable spoken english.

78. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

I still don’t see the fuss about Obama using Deval Patrick’s lines.

Kennedy wrote very little of his speeches. Ted Sorenson wrote most of the famous lines.

I’m no huge Obama fan but I’m just not getting this.

79. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Pistols man. Can’t you liberals ever support the Second Amendment?

Where’s Zell Miller when you need him?

80. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

Thanks Marisa. I get lost easily.

English is, in many ways, a pidgen language. It’s a big garbage dump of other languages.

Of course, the Chinese are gonna eat our lunch. I’m gonna pick up whatever scraps of Mandarin that I can cram into my little pea-brain.

81. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

ABC/WP Poll: Obama Closing Gap in Texas, Ohio

for what little it is worth, and I still don’t think the polls come anywhere near to counting a huge chunk of Obama’s supporters.

82. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

78. I think it’s different when you employ a speechwriter. You can claim the words are yours then (in that quasi-universe). But when you use someone else’s words while writing your own speech and don’t attribute them to someone who used them in an earlier speech, that’s a different kettle of fish.

83. Miss Devore - 21 February 2008

Hillary ignores the question on commander in chief readiness. I thought the strategy was for her to bring her commander in chiefness out.

84. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Would she be the commandress-in-chief or just Emperor Hillary?

85. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

But when you use someone else’s words while writing your own speech and don’t attribute them to someone who used them in an earlier speech, that’s a different kettle of fish.

That means Kennedy should have said “Cicero in Ancient Rome once said that you shouldn’t ask what Rome can do for you. You should ask what you can do for Rome?”

86. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Oops! Faux pas. Emperess Hillary.

87. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

85. Right! (Are you sure it was Cicero?)

88. NYCO - 21 February 2008

I am learning Hindi right now. I am looking forward to using it on call center employees and listening to them sputter (‘cuz they’re probably not allowed to speak it on the job and spoil the illusion that they’re not in Poona).

89. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Iirc, Khalil Gibran said it before Kennedy/Sorenson too.

90. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

I think it was Cicero.

I also think Bush should have cited Darth Vader when he said “you’re either with us or against us”.

It is on film.

91. marisacat - 21 February 2008

the so called “words” debate is about AXELROD.

Does he puff up his clients with the same words, same lines, same calls. Or not.

Will Obama deflate as Deval [arguably] has.

Time will tell.

I am sick to death of puffed up political clients. Decades of them.

It is one of the things wrong with US politics… and then we send, and foreign candidates so want, our “winning” consultants all over the world. To puff up globally, from the UK to Poland to S America.

Then they deflate and cannot cope in office.

And I’ll add th standard that Angry Arab now posts when he says something about Obama, “Does not mean I support Hillary”.

BOTH are a roll of the dice. A bad one.

One ran on confused history and one is running on quasi religion.

UNACCEPTABLE.

92. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

How often has Hillary gotten physically grabbed by Prole women in Texas. Jesus. Her arm must hurt.

93. Miss Devore - 21 February 2008

Hillary is plaigarizing Obama’s response.

94. marisacat - 21 February 2008

Frankly

We are the people we have been waiting for..

sounds like Scientology. If anyone wants to claim that one.

It’s certainly as clearly political mind fuck as is antying out there.

95. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

We are the people we have been waiting for..sounds like
Scientology.

It’s been a Maoist slogan for awhile.

http://mikeely.wordpress.com/2008/02/21/steele-why-the-rcp-can%e2%80%99t-lead-a-revolution/

96. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

I also think Bush should have cited Darth Vader

lol @93 too.

97. melvin - 21 February 2008

What are the overhead shots supposed to accomplish?

Or am I watching a curling match?

This is by far BO’s best debate performance. imho.

98. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

This debate seems like draw to me. Hillary’s getting in some good nasty lines but stuff like the plagiarism charge is only going to work on someone who comes across like an idiot. Obama’s too quick on his feet to really get hurt by it too much. But I don’t see Hillary imploding the way I thought she would be considering how far she’s behind now.

99. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008
100. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

Would she be the commandress-in-chief or just Emperor Hillary?

Oh, the Emperor, definitely.

101. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

Here it says he stole it from Maria Shriver.

http://www.socialmedia.biz/2008/02/we-are-the-ones.html

102. Miss Devore - 21 February 2008

92.lol.

103. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008
104. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

I am looking forward to using it on call center employees and listening to them sputter

I said xiexie at the end of a chinese food order last weekend and the poor girl on the phone said … ‘oh … ummmmm … you’re welcome!’

105. Miss Devore - 21 February 2008

I thought Hillary was the big porkster of the 2.

106. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

And I stole it from someone.

107. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

I used the line two years ago.

Well, damn! Write him and let him know so he can credit you. ;)

108. melvin - 21 February 2008

Will somebody please tackle this earmark issue head on?

The fact is that Congress can’t be bothered to assess infrastructure needs, for instance, in any normal rational fashion. Like a five year plan, etc. So one off earmarks wind up the only way anything gets done at all in many areas, including absolutely necessary projects.

109. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

And I stole it from someone.

Ignore my last comment. :)

110. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

single mom. drink!

111. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Stop being rational, melvin. Sheesh.

112. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

Well, damn! Write him and let him know so he can credit you.

Didn’t Michael Franti use it in a song ten years ago? I’m pretty sure people held up signs in Seattle during the WTO with the line.

113. melvin - 21 February 2008

Single mom, grandparents, zzzzzzzzz, blow like you wouldn’t believe baby!, working in the mill, woops guess I borrowed that one, southsideachicago, etc. etc etc.

114. marisacat - 21 February 2008

They aren’t interestedin tackling infrstructure as every mayor, regional leader will clamor for light rail.

The USA ain’t interested.

115. melvin - 21 February 2008

114 Portland OR, struggling to do light rail on its own, and doing a damn good job too.

116. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Hillary’s stealing the show. sniff

117. Miss Devore - 21 February 2008

personally, I think the debates should go back to being monitored by the women’s league of voters.

I do have something to offer for comic relief. There was a video today of the bush couples visit to Liberia. The Liberians were clapping and dancing, and then dubya & laura decide to start “dancing” . Laura appeared to be doing The Jerk. With the Jerk beside her!

118. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Wow. A standing ovation.

119. melvin - 21 February 2008

Nice grace note from Hillary.

120. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

Hillary’s stealing the show. sniff

She had better watch out for maurading hair dressers and waitresses trying to grab her.

121. melvin - 21 February 2008

117 Thanks for clarifying. I saw some of that; thought they had conracted some terrible tropical nervous disorder.

122. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Well, I’m glad this wasn’t a tea party like the last one. Gawd that was boring.

123. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

every mayor, regional leader will clamor for light rail.

Meanwhile:

Monorail to hit Delhi streets by 2010

NEW DELHI: It’s official now. You can expect to take a monorail through the congested lanes of the Walled City or hop onto a tram running at road level to catch an event at Jawaharlal Nehru Stadium during the Commonwealth Games.

The technical feasibility reports for Light Rail Transit (LRT) and monorail are in and both the modes have been found “suitable” for Delhi conditions on the routes identified, after making some minor changes.

“The technical feasibility reports for both LRT and monorail on the identified corridors have been studied in detail and the Build Operate Transfer (BOT) model of finance has been suggested for implementation. Both the projects have a 2010 deadline,” said a senior government official.

As per the plan, three monorail corridors spanning over 45 km will come up between Delhi University and Pul Bangash (via Shakti Nagar, Anand Parbat, Ajmeri Gate, Delhi Gate, Red Fort, SPM Marg), Daryaganj and Kondli (via Yamuna river crossing, Geeta Colony, Scope Tower, Vikas Marg, Patparganj, Kondli Road) and Budh Vihar to Shakti Nagar.

The Indians and Chinese are so gonna kick our asses.

124. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Bush is such an embarrassment – and he isn’t even my president. I cringe.

125. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

Calgary’s LRT is wind-powered – the first one in N America.

126. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

I hate when Bush travels overseas. ALWAYS a series of gaffs, always. Sadly, the media constantly gives him a pass on it, and when they do show what a boob he is it never seems to stick.

127. Miss Devore - 21 February 2008

christ, the first thing CNN does in its post-debate analysis, is go to the “plaigiarism” issue.

I hunger for Triumph the Insult Comic Dog.

128. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

Hillary’s going to talk about releasing political prisoners in Cuba.

Hmm. Like in, um, Gitmo?

129. melvin - 21 February 2008

The Indians and Chinese are so gonna kick our asses

Not to worry, it will self correct; when they start importing American economists for advice and opening business schools they’ll fuck it all up in a just a few years.

130. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 February 2008

it will self correct; when they start importing American economists for advice

I don’t see that happening. They would have allowed their currencies to “float” by now if they were even leaning that way.

131. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

TPM:

9:46 PM … That was an interesting final moment to end on for Hillary. Candy Crowley is on CNN now saying how it was a good connect moment for HIllary, which I suspect it may have been. But we all do remember that those words were borrowed from Bill Clinton’s 1992 campaign, right?

And we’re off!

132. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

In Politics, Inspiration or Plagiarism Is a Fine Line wherein Bubba’s accused of plagiarism too.

133. Miss Devore - 21 February 2008

Hillary appealing to the “lived through adultery” population. Could be larger than latino population.

And she says she hasn’t suffered more than veterans who have been disfigured from IED’s.

Well, no kidding.

134. Hair Club for Men - 21 February 2008

And she says she hasn’t suffered more than veterans who have been disfigured from IED’s.

Who would have never been disfigured in the first place had she and a lot of people like her not voted yes on the war in 2002.

135. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008
136. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

For you mcat, since you’ve lost your audio:

Geoff Montgomery: It’s worse than horrible because a zombie has no will of his own. You see them sometimes walking around blindly with dead eyes, following orders, not knowing what they do, not caring.

Larry Lawrence: You mean like Democrats?

137. marisacat - 21 February 2008

that’s hilarious.

yes I have to do soemthing about the audio on the computer… I sort of looked at as the first step of collapse, Death Of CPU.. but maybe worth dealing with it…

138. Miss Devore - 21 February 2008

Hillary invoking memories of Jerry Jeff Walker in Austin.

Hey, I have a soft spot for JJW.

Why do I still not crave her?

She gets a 5 point bump?

139. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

I don’t think it’s PC to be talking about her bumps.

140. marisacat - 21 February 2008

NYT has the debate transcript up.

And I just notcied a big Biz article from Uchitelle riding at the top. On possible bail outs for the mortgage crisis, for the homeowners.

141. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008
142. Miss Devore - 21 February 2008

I’m sitting here, eating cucumbers, thinking, I’m not sure what catnip is talking about.

bumps is code word for?? little breasts? a reference to a rap song?

I’m going to bed. The dog has an abcess tooth that is going to cost me about $400 total.

143. Miss Devore - 21 February 2008

141. thanks for the video. Wasn’t there something weird about the crowd arrangement? It was like people were allowed in, in small groups, after they were czeched or something.

144. bayprairie - 21 February 2008

Hillary invoking memories of Jerry Jeff Walker in Austin.

yeah how lame is that. i’m surprised she can remember. hell, jerry jeff walker doesn’t even remember himself in austin it was so long ago. if hill really wanted to get a little more up-to-date musically she’d be hanging at the continental with one of austin’s best (and best dressed :) guitarists, redd volkaert.

145. lucid - 21 February 2008

For a second there I thought GW was gonna pole dance… Good lord, I wish I could drink tonight so I could forget that image.

146. wu ming - 21 February 2008

the mandarin/english numbers are probably a bit off. while most people in china speak mandarin, a lot of the mandarin dialects are neraly their own languages, and so-called “dialects” like cantonese, shanghainese, and fujianese are as much dialects as portuguese and romanian are “dialects” of roman.

likewise, the english numbers look like a simple adding up of english speaking countries, missing out on the massive number of people who speak english globally, but who don’t necessarily live in english-majority countries, esp. in south asia and other english colonies.

my guess is that english is on top, slightly.

oh, and practice that mandarin, you get massive bonus points for speaking even just a few words, because it’s assumed that it’s impossible for people who aren’t chinese to actually speak the language, much less read it. a xiexie goes a long way.

as for importing american economists, that cat (be it black or white) was out of the bag back way in the early 80s. chinese new left intellectual wang hui wrote a brilliant book (translated into english) about the tian’anmen protests as being fundamentally against the effects of neoliberal reforms, and ties them – as naomi klein did in shock doctrine to the seattle WTO protests. they’re not developing along our lines, catching up; they’re on the same track, moving in parallel.

they just don’t have as much wiggle room between the status quo and widespread riots as the americans, so they have to be a bit more careful.

147. wu ming - 21 February 2008

oops, forgot to close those italics.

148. BooHooHooMan - 21 February 2008

A wise woman I correspond with, not too get too specific here – from San Francisco, writes political analysis and commentary , was banned from dailykos with a user id between 96 and 98, LOL, — indicated recently that Hillary is likely the toastest with the mostess as the money dries up…

They shoulda gone with Safeway

(From the NYT:)

Spending by Clinton Campaign Worries Supporters

Nearly $100,000 went for party platters and groceries before the Iowa caucuses, even though the partying mood evaporated quickly. Rooms at the Bellagio luxury hotel in Las Vegas consumed more than $25,000; the Four Seasons, another $5,000. And top consultants collected about $5 million in January, a month of crucial expenses and tough fund-raising.

[Snip]

The firm that includes Mark Penn, Mrs. Clinton’s chief strategist and pollster, and his team collected $3.8 million for fees and expenses in January; in total, including what the campaign still owes, the firm has billed more than $10 million for consulting, direct mail and other services, an amount other Democratic strategists who are not affiliated with either campaign called stunning.

Howard Wolfson, the communications director and a senior member of the advertising team, earned nearly $267,000 in January. His total, including the campaign’s debt to him, tops $730,000.

The advertising firm owned by Mandy Grunwald, the longtime media strategist for both Mrs. Clinton and Bill Clinton, the former president, has collected $2.3 million in fees and expenses, and is still owed another $240,000.

[Snip]

“The problem is she ran a campaign like they were staying at the Ritz-Carlton,” Mr. Trippi said. “Everything was the best. The most expensive draping at events. The biggest charter. It was like, ‘We’re going to show you how presidential we are by making our events look presidential.’ ”

For instance, during the week before the Jan. 19 caucuses in Nevada, the Clinton campaign spent more than $25,000 for rooms at the Bellagio in Las Vegas; nearly $5,000 was spent at the Four Seasons in Las Vegas that week. Some staff members also stayed at Planet Hollywood nearby.

[Snip]

Yet the Clinton campaign at times found itself spending money on items that were not ultimately helpful. As part of their get-out-the-vote effort in Iowa, the campaign came up with a plan to have a local supermarket deliver sandwich platters to pre-caucus parties. It spent more than $95,384 on Jan. 1 at Hy-Vee Inc., a local grocery chain in West Des Moines, Iowa, in addition to buying loads of snow shovels to clear the walks for caucusgoers. Mrs. Clinton came in third in the Jan. 3 caucus. It did not snow.

149. wu ming - 21 February 2008

actually, upon reading that chart closely, it looks like they counted cantonese and shanghainese (wu) separately.

nevermind

150. BooHooHooMan - 21 February 2008

Whoops on the redundancy in paragraphs…

My take is Hillary rehabbed her image a bit with that last clip

I didn’t see the debates ‘cept for the last clip//catching the rerun now..

Surely they agreed to drastically cut military spending, breaking the good news in Texas…Hello? Hello? Anybody?

151. BooHooHooMan - 21 February 2008

Really, I am thinking about a taking up bowling career…
I’m watching a rerun of this debate? How fucked up is that?? LOL.

152. marisacat - 21 February 2008

The assessment seems to be that she did rehabbed in the last, and indicated she would nto stand in his way, in any critical way, tho she intends to go on, personally.

Kind of interesting.

I read yesterday that Penn possibly is not fired as he is owed 2 mil.

Frankly they should write up both campaigns. For the real picture.

BTW, Safeway has doubled their delivery price. Its hard out there for a grocery pimp… LOL

tra la.

153. BooHooHooMan - 21 February 2008

LMAO with monitor splorf

Its hard out there for a grocery pimp- mcat

154. BooHooHooMan - 21 February 2008


Even wiidda special on the flash frozen shrimp

155. marisacat - 21 February 2008

shudder… they have something on meat and fish called “Extreme Value”.

156. BooHooHooMan - 21 February 2008

In that NYT article, they have a pretty good graphics on the left side of their page where the money has been spent in both camps…..

The two are matched in salaries as a % of their budget, but differ markedly in “Other” vs Media/Polling/ Voter outreach

Aside from the conventional impression ( who knows?) that the bulk of Obama GOTV went into the streets than Hills vs their air-war spending, it is that “Other” category that is talling …the “What”, “to who”, “how much”, and when it was spent that, LMAO, has KILLED her…

The heavy hitters…they got theirs in both camps, but she has 8% of her overall budget that went where exactly ? LOL.. You know where I think alot of those eclairs and luncheons and shwag went? Shmoozing the union hacks and her core constituency to be sure , but also a good bit of yummy in the tummy, then trinkets for twits like the blogger lunches and photo ops with Bill …LOL…I wonder how much her participation in Yearlykos set her back?? I wonder how many paid ops she’s had online? They all do of course, but her flks seemed the least organic of all…

157. BooHooHooMan - 21 February 2008

mispelled *telling

158. BooHooHooMan - 21 February 2008

LOL if FLH got paid a penny a post, he was in for 900 Grand…

159. BooHooHooMan - 21 February 2008

I’m out…

160. marisacat - 21 February 2008

francis is repetitios… and boring

161. liberalcatnip - 21 February 2008

As part of their get-out-the-vote effort in Iowa, the campaign came up with a plan to have a local supermarket deliver sandwich platters to pre-caucus parties.

Baked goods! They should have had baked goods!

162. liberalcatnip - 22 February 2008

bumps is code word for?? little breasts? a reference to a rap song?

Like I would actually know a rap song?

163. liberalcatnip - 22 February 2008

More news from Serbia:

The British Embassy in Belgrade came under attack as protests against Kosovan independence swept the Serbian capital, Foreign Secretary David Miliband said.

Damage to the building was “limited” and embassy staff were safe, Mr Miliband said.

The United States Embassy was torched by Serb rioters and a charred body was found after the attack.

Reportedly one of the protesters. Not confirmed yet.

164. JJB - 22 February 2008

Turkey has invaded Iraqi Kurdistan:

Turkish troops have launched a ground incursion across the border into Iraq in pursuit of separatist Kurdish rebels, the military said Friday — a move that dramatically escalates Turkey’s conflict with the militants.

It is the first confirmed ground operation by the Turkish military into Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein. It also raised concerns that it could trigger a wider conflict with the U.S.-backed Iraqi Kurds, despite Turkish assurances that its only target was the Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK.

The ground operation started after Turkish warplanes and artillery bombed suspected rebel targets on Thursday, the military said on its Web site. The ground incursion was backed by the Air Force, the statement said.

Turkey has conducted air raids against the PKK guerrillas in northern Iraq since December, with the help of U.S. intelligence, and it has periodically carried out so-called ”hot pursuits” in which small units sometimes spend only a few hours inside Iraq.

The announcement of a cross-border, ground incursion of a type that Turkey carried out before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003 was a major development in the conflict, which started in 1984 and has claimed as many as 40,000 lives.

The Kurdish militants are fighting for autonomy in Turkey’s predominantly Kurdish southeast, and have carried out attacks on Turkish targets from bases in northern Iraq. The U.S. and the European Union consider the PKK a terrorist organization.

”The Turkish Armed Forces, which values Iraq’s territorial integrity and its stability, will return as soon as planned goals are achieved,” the military said. ”The executed operation will prevent the region from being a permanent and safe base for the terrorists and will contribute to Iraq’s stability and internal peace.”

Private NTV television said 10,000 troops were taking part in the offensive and had penetrated six miles into Iraq.

Of course, the MSM insists on using the Nixonian “incursion.”

Things seem to be spinning out of control.

165. Intermittent Bystander - 22 February 2008

Arizona (GOP) Congressman Rick Renzi indicted for conspiracy, money laundering, insurance fraud, wire fraud, and extortion. AP version here.

And here’s a freebie photo for Bowers the Googlebomber. (This one probably ain’t worth much anymore. . . .)

166. liberalcatnip - 22 February 2008

”The Turkish Armed Forces, which values Iraq’s territorial integrity and its stability,

Shades of Bush. “We just invaded to help you. Honest.”

167. liberalcatnip - 22 February 2008
168. marisacat - 22 February 2008

catnip!

there is a new thread…

LINK

169. marisacat - 22 February 2008

ugh… I did post a link to the new thread last night…

looks like WP ate it.

Sorry!


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