Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton set aside their cordiality and traded accusations in a contentious debate Tuesday evening.
Please make that the last debate…….. 26 February 2008
Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election.trackback
I fell sound asleep about half way thru… caught up reading the thread and now off to scan The Caucus blow by blow. Will put the transcript up if NYT has it…
Here, straight from the Front Page of the NYT (easy way of doing it!)
Democrats Clash on Health, Trade and Rival Tactics
I look forward to her moving on, and the focus changing.
********************************************************************
They make it sound as if it was exciting or something.
Catnip – I just read an article that I posted at pff that might be of interest to you – especially as I note the importance of lactobacilli in the glutathione and selenium metabolism. Might be of some dietary import to you.
well I think Judis is dumb as rocks at political analysis, so maybe not a big surprise he sees Obama as ADAM, as well as everyone else he is.
In about 18 months the come down is gonna be spectacular. Invest in popcorn futures.
After watching this, I’m pretty sure Obama is the anti-christ.
(Of course, I’d actually have to believe in a “christ” for there to be an anti-christ, but that’s beside the point!).
Indeed.
2. Thanks, lucid. I’ll check it out. I’ve found out recently that I shouldn’t eat beans, processed meat, tomatoes (which I knew about) or anything that promises to “boost” the immune system (since that would encourage more attacks on my healthy cells because lupus is an auto-immune disorder). I got that info from reputable lupus info sites so I’m going to make some adjustments.
I’m pretty sure I can still eat cheesecake though.
The article is on AIDS, but it applies. I draw a connection to ‘auto-immune’ diseases because one sees similar patterns in low glutathione and selenium levels that would suggest that they aren’t actually auto-immune, but their root cause lies in a distinct lack of intestinal flora that inhibits the natural metabolism of anti-oxidants in the body. I know with Lupus this is a long noted problem. Perhaps try adding some probiotics to your diet? Anyhow, just thought of you when I posted.
I thought the whole probiotics thing was under suspicion lately. Let me check…
It was the news about the lawsuit against Activia and DanActive probiotic claims that I
‘m referring to.
More on that lawsuit. Whatever happened to good old-fashioned yogurt and who knows what’s in these genetically-engineered strains of probiotics?
Madelaine Albright shilling for Hillary on TDS and Jon Stewart said he’s comfortable with “all 3 people that are in there”. I have to assume he included McCain in that bunch.
Clueless Candidates Make Osama’s Day
Thanks for that link on Activia, Catnip …. someone I know buys it all the time ….
Re the debate, Hillary uses the Rightwing claim that those without Insurance coverage are just too selfish to buy one for themselves. So, her program will force everyone to buy a policy. This system has gone into effect in Mass, it was Mitch Romney’s idea, afaik. People are now being fined BECAUSE they can’t afford to buy a policy. Iow, she punishes people for being too poor to buy a health insurance policy.
I can’t say how much this upsets me …. how often many of us have had to fight against this claim with rightwingers who claim that anyone who is sick will get treatment in the US. Not true, they have to wait until their condition is an emergency, then they cannot be turned away from the ER, however the bills will come later. Rightwingers like to pretend it is free to those who have to go to emergency because they have no coverage.
Hillary helps with this fairy tale by claiming that at least 20% of those without coverage, could if they were not so selfish and she’s going to make them pay, either fines or buy a policy.
Easy to tell who she’s getting donations from for her campaign … what a little rightwinger she is ….
Glad Obama slammed her on that point ….. he didn’t go far enough, he should have pointed out how rightwing her claims are …
well Kennedy was a big mover/backer as well on the MA system.
In 40 years he has done shit for the nation but appease R presidents and be a conservative who bleats to feed the poor while shafting people from the cloakroom.
Sad to say nothing we get will be good. The entire move to do ANYTHING about helth care is to relieve businesses long term, as more and more have signaled they wish to dispense with providing health care AND philanthropy is more and more unable to cover the huge gaps for the worst catastrphic illnesses, Cancer for one.
And to long term bail out insurance companies, in dire straits due to decades of fiduciary malfeasance. Serial bad investors, unable to protect a critical support system/business, always an eye on the profit… and how best to lose the farm.
How shameful.
Shame on them ALL.
A diminishing, authoritarian accusation they BOTH have used.
So very fucked on the Healthcare , because (If it wouldn’t kill people within what we ridiculously call our health care ‘System” ****never mind those dying without it…***) …But I’d say either Nationalize it paid wholly out of the federal budget or let them chuck off any pretense of employment or gov provided care WITHOUT mandates, tear up all the State Hack-laden Hospital, Health, and Insurance Commissions that lock down competition and You damn sure would see smaller co-ops of 10,000 member groups forming springing for the services of primary care and a handful of surgeons…
Right now we have the WORST of opposing paradigms…neither social nor market based…The benefits accrue inordinately to a political class whether wearing white coats, suit and tie, or are the presently valuable economic functionaries actually laying in the bed…
The majority of individuals we used to see as “people” and once called “patients” are now viewed as little more than billable gastrointesinal tubes from mouth to ass which just happens to sustain the particular anatomical niche market where one plies ones trade…… Some Customerization. Hardly a laudable life.
Fuck it, issue everyone a box of bandaids, a manual on how to build your own defibrillator out of jumper cables and a car battery, and outsource the Administration of advanced care to Canada and the UK….Seriously, get some people involved who actually know what the fuck they’re doing…And I’m only half joking about it…Christ if you can sign international treaties on Trade and Defense, why not?
Right now we have the WORST of opposing paradigms…neither social nor market based…
Bingo.
Phillip Weiss (a Jewish anti-zionist liberal) seems to think that Obama is subtly critical of AIPAC and Likud.
http://www.philipweiss.org/
I’m not buying it. He and Justin Raimondo are engaging in wishful thinking.
Better link.
http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/02/obama-reminds-j.html#comments
He could be right but I’m still not buying it. Obama needed to denounce anti-Islamic bigotry (which he’s been subject to) right along with anti-semitism last night. He didn’t.
I’m a Protestant with a Catholic sounding name. 100 years ago in Boston I would have been subject to anti-Catholic bigotry even if I wasn’t Catholic.
If I would have denounced Irish Catholic WASP bashing without denouncing Catholic bashing, what would that have made me?
Obama came across like Kerry. He couldn’t defend himself against Swiftboating for fear of sounding “unelectable”.
Not a good sign for this fall.
Good question… and why can’t one get raw milk yogurt in the states.
One can find quality live a-acidophilus supplements though.
well both Howard and George McGovern have put forth (not that Howard speaks of his anymore) simple plans to cover everyone.
McGovern’s is to fold Medicaid into Medicare so every one is the same and then incrementally extend Medicare to everyone.
Of course they don’t want to do that.
And as I pointed out it was Southern WHite Boy who first poke of mandates and wage garnishment (YOu Tube Debate, I posted the link when it all blew up over her Mandates).
People are just not cued to hate him, so they missed it and media did not bother.
Ph yes, Screw them all.
It’s easy to make yogourt… I used to do it all the time. A lebanese taught me.
There are all sorts of [silly] regulations against raw milk in the US but possibly not in Western Canada.
From the DSCC email that just loped into my in-box:
Here’s to BIG MAJORITIES. We know they will get so much done. Don’t be frustrated hapless little voter: Better days are coming.
unlinked headline on TPM says Wm. F. Buckley, jr. is dead.
23 Yeah the bastard is dead all right.
Party at your joint Miss D?
He did inhale, however.( Albeit on his yacht in International waters.)
There are all sorts of [silly] regulations against raw milk in the US but possibly not in Western Canada.
It’s illegal to buy raw milk here. Only the cows’ actual owners can drink it, apparently.
Thanks for that link on Activia, Catnip
You’re welcome!
Stuff White People Like: Threatening to Move to Canada.
raw milk…
well because we still have small dairies around here, some people are quietly buying it directly from the producers.
Probably soon to be the focus of congressional hearings with Waxman and Conyers bearing down. Both shaking their facial waggles over it… Funny how it is never about Bush (the big news today is Did Clemens LIE!!!!?????)
The raw milk prohibition is ridiculous and affects cheese importation as well.
Stupid country.
And I forgot to mention that I’m lactose intolerant anyway, so raw milk wouldn’t be an option.
the big news today is Did Clemens LIE!!!!?????
Does the moon shine in Miami?
I used to buy raw milk in Pike Place Market in Seattle in the 70′s. Had no idea it was forbidden since. Raw cream, too. This was pre (or nascent) Starbucks days, so I put it in my Medaglia d’Oro coffee, which Franny Glass turned me onto.
Oh, did anyone feel the impact of all Starbucks closing for 3 hours yesterday? I have always thought the current coffee business a bunch of nonsense. Just from a practical POV. There are plenty of excellent whole beans, of which you can buy a pound, for just double for what you pay for a single cup at a coffee shop. It’s easy to stay under $5/lb. and have great coffee. And you don’t have to call yourself a barrista, either.
30 I’ve been using the same little Bialetti stovetop coffee maker for thirty years, just replacing the gasket every so often.
31. I’m a cone/cupper.
I still have the pink Melitta pot with matching cone that I bought when I was 20.
And a series of plastic Melitta cones to travel wtih. People have such a range of complicated coffee makers now that I just make my own.
An old stove top Italian aluminum espresso maker…
Raw cream, too.
Fond childhood memories of farm cream – the absolute best. Mmmm…
I’m not a coffee drinker but I buy free trade beans from a local Ten Thousand Villages store as xmas gifts when I can afford it. – a habit I started back in the day before other stores finally added fair trade products to their shelves.
Best coffee I ever had though (when I did drink the stuff for about 5 years) was in Jamaica – Blue Mountain with sweet cream. What a way to start the day.
33. I am officially jealous. Pink, even.
All sorts of odd thoughts are popping in my head today, in addition to an inexpicable replay of the “Bonanza” theme song. Apropos of nothing, I remembered the little plastic “meals” that one served as a girl child on one’s homemaker-training dish sets. There is an existing photograph of myself, pouring tea, at a fake tea-party, for my younger brother.
oh FFS:
I am more and more removing myself from national level discussion topics, but, for the moment, what an expedient way to attempt to diminish the Selma Montgomery march and equate it with an ELECTION.
hmm We are so post-racial. Saying it is so makes it real.
Cost Plus had a big big shipment of pottery Melitta manual coffee sets. Pink Yellow and Blue…
LOL works really well………….
8)
When a friend stayed here for 15 months during the 00/01 dot com housing crunch, she just could nto stand the little systems, Melitta and or stove top.
She bought a 110.00 electric Melitta cofee grinder and coffee maker thing. After she left I wrapped it in plastic and stored it. I did get it out a couple of years ago for some reason. It had stopped working…
what a hoot!
35. “FFS” is right.
38–sorry, don’t understand FFS.
FFS – For Fucks Sake
Whoa. Scary. Vote for Huck or croak like Buck??
Bill Buckley: The Papist with the Rapists.
To be frank I wish Buckley had gone first and NOT John Kenneth. Really pissed me off. Buckley lording it over the memorials.
Dominick Dunnesque, I know, but extensive coverage with victim impact statements today in Ohio for killer Bobby Cutts….( black cop, ~clean cut/assimilated~ was much of his defense in the murder of pregnant white girlfriend to duck the child suppport) …
44. death by impregnator seems to be quite a common cause of mortality by pregnant women.
just as child abuse by step-father.
do some men tend to feel ownership over women?
Miss D #45- death by impregnator seems to be quite a common cause of mortality by pregnant women.
Yes. Maryland Study published in JAMA 2001
46. so you understand why some women get a bit squeamish about the whole mommyhood thang. The paradox of life-giving sometimes being a death sentence.
I am looking forward to Gore Vidal’s eulogy of Buckley.
the bacteria eats all the lactose, so yogurt ought to be OK, catnip. i’m mildly lactose intolerant myself, but manage the yoghurt and most harder cheeses well enough (the harder the cheese, the lower the lactose level).
interestingly enough, my dad, who is also lactose intolerant, found that strauss milk (a local grass fed organic creamery in marin IIRC) didn’t give him any digestive trouble. which has him wondering out loud whether it’s even the lactose that upsets his stomach, or all the other evil crap byproducts of industrial dairies.
the italian espresso makers are great, too (although the smell of burning coffee grounds and rubber is awful if one forgets that it’s boiling on the stove, and boils off all the water). i’m happiest with a plain old coffee press, tho.
Heres the JAMA abstract …
i’m happiest with a plain old coffee press, tho.
I have one of those too… but hard to get the cofee really strong enough for me… a friend who uses that method and makes very strong cofee said the secret is just massively packing in the coffe grinds…
everybody’s got a method… 8)
i just grind way more beans than suggested, and brew it until i remember that i was brewing it in the first place. absentmindedness as a strategy, i guess we all have to work with what we’ve got…
LOL
absentmindedness as a strategy
I claim celestial navigation… in the way the birds fly…
8)
Oh – my gawd!
so yogurt ought to be OK, catnip
I can eat yogurt. I just wonder if raw milk would make any difference? (which is kind of a moot point since I can’t get raw milk here anyway)
54.I looked in pooties eyes and saw its soul.
you have to laugh…
Turkey says no Timetable for withdrawing from Iraq/Kurdistan (all but).
Merry go round!
Blessed be Jesus!
Budkley died at his desk, boots on, working on a new book on Reagan.
God has spared us yet ANOTHER book on Reagan!
Praise the Lord!
Oh, such rich poetic justice:
Ugh – but we’ll be hearing all about Ronnie again while conservatives mourn.
The Lewis thing about Selma is depressing/disgusting.
Oh, and on Buckley, according to the tribute on All Things Considered this afternoon, he was a giant among men and saved the Republican party from the “fringe”. I shit you not … they actually said that.
The only thing I will say for that vile racist homophobe is that he was at least willing to have actual leftists and liberals on his show to debate. That’s about the only nice thing I have to say about him. I hope that he had to confront the knowledge that all of those sacraments didn’t mean shit and he was just ENDED. No pearly gates, no forgiveness, no cashing in the chips of all of those Hail Mary’s and Our Fathers. Just worms and dirt.
Gaze upon the abyss, asshole.
“He drove out the kooks of the movement,” Christopher Buckley said. “He separated it from the anti-Semites, the isolationists, the John Birchers. He conducted, if you will, a kind of purging of the movement.”
THIS IS THE PARTY LINE…
I swear as the undertaking staff were taping Buckley’s ankles together so he did not flop over the gurney, they were devising this…
Paul Gigot prattled the same scheisse thisafternoon on Lehrer.
******
And yes right… any Greatest Election of Our Lives (which is all of them) is the same as the Selma, Edmund Pettus Bridge “incident”.
Threats to the Dems over renegotiating NAFTA from Canada’s trade minister. So, just how much do you guys like our oil down there anyway?
And yes right… any Greatest Election of Our Lives (which is all of them) is the same as the Selma, Edmund Pettus Bridge “incident”.
I think he meant it was an easier decision to make, not that it was “easier”.
Marching across the bridge in Selma wasn’t a tough choice for Lewis 43 years ago. He had already been through more beatings and jailings than you could count. Now in Selma you had national attention. So it was “easy” to do it.
On the other hand, he had to make the choice to withdraw his support for Hillary and as a southerner Lewis is being gallant about it. He’s trying not to hurt Hillary’s feelings.
Seems admirable to me. The same guy who could go to jail in the redneck south and risked getting killed finds it hard to be rude to a woman who’s also his friend.
That’s why Lewis isn’t David Byron.
And that’s also what makes him different from Al Gore.
It’s just a way of kissing Hillary’s ass. Lieberman might not have gone off the deep end had Gore just layed out some flattery before he endorsed Dean.
it devalues real change, real resistance in favor of bullshit intraparty ass kissing.
My state licenses dairies for raw milk, maybe your state does too. There aren’t many of them, and the license is for on premise sale, not retail, (although that doesn’t exclude mail-orders on cheese and the one local to me delivers frozen milk to a local farmers market, have to pick up the fresh at the farm). Some of them use a form of community supported agriculture, contractual ageements between the purchaser and the dairy. time share on a goat!
Where can I find real milk products?
Just to prove that we have moronic politicians here too.
Bloomberg: Nader Should Run if He Wants
“I’ve got one of these incontinence products — albeit a new one, not the ones that tend to appear at committee — on my desk and I’m really giving this matter very serious contemplation,” Smitherman told a group of wide-eyed reporters.
I’m trying to think of a witty comment on this but it’s really impossible to top just quoting it
No the comment from JLewis is in on camera interview with Mitchell. I just heard it on the evening news. There likely is a transcript form some multiple run o fit on MSNBC today.
it is the march vs the endorsement.
But it is his life, he can invoke what he wishes in comparison.
As I posted earlier, I bother less and less with national level events.
Such a relief to be post racial. Less to worry about. Let Obama handle it… LOL.
No the comment from JLewis is in on camera interview with Mitchell
Yeah. I was just watching it on MSNBC. I got the sense that he was struggling to spare Hillary’s feelings by being hyperbolic.
Anyway, it must be pretty weird to see the first black man on the verge of becoming president when only 40 years ago they set a bus on fire just because you were sitting next to a couple of white people.
McCain is a jackass. No Islamic terrorist calls himself “Al Qaeda”. They write press releases that go like this.
“We the Mujahadeen of yada yada, the people you would call Al Qaeda, demand you crusaders get out yada yada”.
There’s no group called “Al Qaeda in Iraq”.
I’m trying to think of a witty comment on this but it’s really impossible to top just quoting it
You and me both. What a bonehead.
Al Quaeda uses “yada yada”? Interesting.
A middling rant up at LSF.
Actually many people who have been diagnosed lactose intolerant are only allergic to pasteurization. You should maybe try it. In the US one can usually get raw milk products directly from organic farms, or ‘buy in’ to a cow and have the products delivered within the same state. Dunno if that’s possible in Canada.
Chomsky, on the killing of Imad Moughniyeh and the different meanings of “terror”:
sure would be nice if hillary hangs on a little while longer, gratis texas hispanics. a few more weeks of the interBBB warz sure would be a hoot.
Honestly, it feels a lot like Feb 2004.
I love reading all the thread dwellers’ protestatons. All so familiar.
Disturbing New Photos From Abu Ghraib
Speaking of terror …
What I like about Wm F Buckley is that he actually read books and played the harpsichord. Also, he wrote a few amusing trashy novels, such as Saving the Queen.
I also like the story I heard from a woman who was apartment-sitting in a posh NYC building in the 1970s. Unbeknownst to her, she was on Buckley’s floor and he had seen her going in and out. One evening she heard a buzz at the door, and she opened the door to see Buckley in a dressing gown, bearing a shaker full of martinis. He was mellifluously charming and she invited him in. She said he was a wonderful conversationalist and his martinis were fantastic.
When his martinis were done, he went back to his apartment.
Tales of NYC.
Charming as he may have been, though, Buckley was a certfiable Catholic Whacko.
I see kos is still not through ragging on Kucinich, who must have run over the mamz family dog. Of all the Dem turkeys in congress, why is it so vitally important for kos to see Kucinich purged?
LOL Kucinich never auditioned for Great White Father to Kos.
Soemthing like that… Del Dem never called Kucinich “Congressman McDreamy”…
Who else is on mamz’ list to primary out? Barbara Lee? Jim McDermott?
WaPo round up piece for tomorrow’s paper. on the issues with Jewish voters, for Obama.
They do cut Rabbi Foxman’s quote short, he has one out there today that the issue of Farrakahn is resolved but not ht eissue of Rev Wright. Wapo leaves off the Wright part.
Margaret Kimberley at Black Agenda Report made some good points today about the death of the progressive movement and Obamamania
Juicy brrrreaking news: NAFTA: What the Obama Campaign Secretly Told Canada’s Government
Hot Kitty Scoops du Jour!! And de Jure…
8)
I’d post it on dkos but I’d be banned immediately. Then again, that is a badge of honour.
There’s actually a lot of Dem candidate bashing going on in the thread to that news story.
[fixed the link --- Mcat]
oops: link and it isn’t even THAT late yet for me to be making my predictable html mistakes.
I have to share a city with these people.
Just a brief reminder (the overall thread ran about 103 comments) as to why I’ll be packing it all up and moving to rural Alabama or something in the next month. Might as well cut to the chase, don’t you think ?
Is anyone besides me hesitant about going to an anti-war march next time for fear of being unwittingly drafted into the Obama Adoration League ? Because I have to say that I really, really fucking don’t want that. [scowl]
I think I know what I will be posting tomorrow, thanks for that piece of juicy news.
I must admit, that Obama Kool Aid is one powerful concoction, I doubt anybody would care.
Hi XP! It’s been a while.
yes it has. I was working on an immigration project which took up a large chuck of my time, until the primary fever struck my partners, especially the Obama bug. You know how it is with bloggers, if the issue is not sexy, move on. So now the immigration project is on hold.
Hi XP….
and hi to heather rose (SV/HRH)
A middling rant up at LSF.
I tried to comment, but I’m not registered. That pic says it all.
Actually many people who have been diagnosed lactose intolerant are only allergic to pasteurization
I had no idea you could be allergic to pasteurization. Canadian law is pretty explicit on the issue of raw milk though. Via wiki:
Did I mention that I saw a woman offering lacteal secretions her baby the other day?
“We shall drink no milk before its time.”
“Got pasteurization?”
“mellifluously”
Praise the intertube overlords for dictionary.com.
86. On pandering to the Repubs and Independents – Canada’s current minority gov’t is led by the Conservative party which definitely doesn’t want to see NAFTA renegotiated – thus Obama’s secret reassurances.
This is also the same gov’t that gave away $1 billion to the US as a consolation prize for finally ending the years of fights over the softwood lumber dispute. Our lumber industry has been decimated as a result of that conflict and that giveaway.
Our trade deals are serious business up here to those in power so, no doubt, that story was leaked as a warning to the Democrats after what we witnessed last nite at the debate.
Obama Adoration League
I think it’s actually called the Adore Obama League – in deference to AOL and its millions of “me too” posts.
lol
hilarious too
KO on the mellifluous, martini-drinking Buckley.
oh FFS… Charlie says that his round table, the table itself, is “weeping tonight” at news of Buckley’s death.
Boy, Charlie was in luv.
purchase a goat from a goatherder, he/she agrees to raise it and both of you share the milk/cheese/yogurt. the milk isn’t prohibited, only the sale.
dairy farms, the new speakeasies.
Hilarious. DD writes a diary about the Clintons’ narcissism (and finally admits he’s just a tool) and the first comments (that seem to go on forever) are all about whether or not those commenters are boomers. Ummm…”narcissism”, anyone?
dairy farms, the new speakeasies.
lol…I used to live down the road from Alpaca farmers. I wonder if that milk’s any good. (kidding)
Oh I always love these exchanges…
In which I actually link to shit that links to shit that makes a scientifically valid point, that really can’t be refuted… and, no – not silence – indignation and pretend elitism. ‘You’re an idiot’!!!!!!
How can I make that bigger !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey dude, you want to back that up?
NO!!!!!!! YOU SUCK!!!!
I asked politely, twice.
Seriously, I can google a zillion articles disputing myself on the thread, but all of them are seriously flawed – and precisely ripped to threads by the two things I linked to.
So is it laziness?
Or is it self righteousness?
And should I even give a shit?
sorry, fucked the formatting… prolly a slash or a ” or a< somewhere…
And should I even give a shit?
It’s pff. There’s your answer.
peeder needs to add a disclaimer: “This site is for entertainment purposes only.”
This is the link.
peeder needs to add a disclaimer: “This site is for entertainment purposes only.”
I”m beginning to see that the main problem at PFF (as opposed to Dkos which is censorship) is the fact that it’s just bogged down by single issue obsessives.
Byron of course in his hatred of women.
Ormond Otvos in his ability to relate anything (however unrelated) to “cognitive science”.
Noom in his hatred of Muslims.
“Your Momma” in his hatred of one or two people who came over from MLW.
It’s like a ship full of Captain Ahabs without a crew.
bayprairie – i remember coming across a “milk bar” in india once, just a building with a counter, some chairs, and a bunch of cows out back.
i like the idea of bootlegging raw milk.
Whoops. Looks like DD doesn’t quite see himself as the tool he made himself out to be in his diary after all.
After writing that the Clintons are the “worst narcissists this country has ever seen”, he’ll still lick Hillary’s boots:
lol…like his not doing anything for her campaign would make such a HUGE difference. The man (and I use that term lightly) is such a bloody hypocrite. What a drama queen.
As always, when in a bizarre, alienated mood, my first instinct is to clean the bathroom sink…
go figure.
People love Buckley because he made it okay to be a rabid asshole and racist.
sorry about the commenting thing, catnip. Someday I’m going to get my shit together and do something about that.
lots of the bullshit Buckley revisionism on Morning Joe w/ the editor of Time. Joe is insisting that he’s a “Buckley conservative”. The Time editor also said that Buckley was “socially moderate”.
Except for blacks and women, of course, but why bring that up?
… and if you love the 110th… just wait:
Waxman’s staff posted an 18-page analysis of the Clemens testimony.
More and better Democrats means more of the above.
rah. rah. oh, and, rah.
MITM, no. 120,
It will no doubt be conveniently forgotten that Buckley wanted everyone with AIDS to be given a tatoo identifying them as having the disease. Some “social moderate.”
IMHO, Buckley’s feat was to take the opinions normally expressed by the gansterish, radical right and give them a patina of intellectual respectability by couching them in a baroque, fey prose style that utilized words no one knew the meaning of (himself occasionally included, I suspect). He also liked to coin clunky neologisms that, fortunately, never made it into the public realm. I’ve always suspected that National Review (which someone who had worked there once described as the only prominent magazine never to have had a heyday) was an operation the CIA funded in violation of its charter (no operations to be conducted in the United States). They gave money to keep magazines like Partisan Review going, so it’s hard to believe they didn’t also do this with one founded and run by an alumnus. It was from its inception a sleazy rag that placed itself on the side of the worst elements in American society (pro-Joe McCarthy/HUAC/segregation), and once the civil rights movement got going became an apologist for the various White Citizens Councils (think the KKK with suits and ties). Buckley himself leaves behind a small amount of only occastionally clever, insubstantial writings that can barely be discerned in the oceans of dreck he would simply dictate into a tape recorder and have published without reworking.
On the positive side, GORE VIDAL LIVES!!!!
…which someone who had worked there once described as the only prominent magazine never to have had a heyday… — JJB
what a deliciously subtle put down.
It always rankled that the Galbraiths maintained, year after year, such close familial relationships with the Buckleys. Even the annual, joint, decampment to Switzerland in February.
Go figure.
Buckley’s feat was to take the opinions normally expressed by the gansterish, radical right and give them a patina of intellectual respectability by couching them in a baroque, fey prose style that utilized words no one knew the meaning of (himself occasionally included, I suspect).
And his son is following in his footsteps with a pro social security privitization “novel”.
http://www.amazon.com/Boomsday-Christopher-Buckley/dp/0446579815/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204208511&sr=8-1
This, from Glenn Greenwald today:
I never saw the Buckley v. Vidal contretemps, which took place at the party conventions and on Election Night 1968, but I do remember seeing some of the highlights quoted in news stories. At the GOP convention (held a few weeks before the disastrous Dem convention in Chicago), Buckley referred to Vidal as “an author of perverted Hollywood prose,” while GV called Buckley “the Marie Antoinette of the right wing” (all quotes are from memory). During the Great Chicago Police Riot, Buckley apparently made some statement comparing the victims of this assault to the Nazis, whereupon Vidal said “as far as I’m concerned, the only pro- or crypto-Nazi is yourself.” Whereupon Buckley said “listen, you g-damned queer, stop calling me a crypto-Nazi or I’ll punch you in the g-damned mouth.”
I saw the Buckley/Galbraith Traveling Show on a number of occasions. Henry Fairlie, one of the old New Republic hands who predated the Martin Peretz takeover, wrote a devastating takedown of Buckley sometime back in the early-mid 80s for TNR, and in referencing this tired act by JKG and WFB said “why don’t they just go out in the schoolyard and pull each others’ braids?” A more apt comparison could not have been made.
Re the Buckley/Galbraith friendship, he was also great pals with Murray Kempton. Dwight Macdonald was also charmed by Buckley. Being genial and disarming people with his wit and generosity was doubtless part of his job.
oh Greenwald is – yet again – a pissant.
The wonderful thing about the on air trashings was that they were NOT civil.
I just saw the “crypto Nazi/punch in the mouth” one again.
Blesssed relief from the Rolaids in a suit. Or whatever is running on the Dem side.
And sick whack job on the right.
I remember one Firing Line when Jerry Brown corrected Buckley’s pronouncemnt of Nausicaa
A high point.
MCat, no. 62,
Buckley’s alleged Cleaning Out The Temple re the conservative movement was always bogus. He wouldn’t have truck with the Birchers and the KKK simply because they were such obvious louts. He advocated substantially the same policies they did, he just did it in a less obnoxious manner. And for over 20 years he gave Joseph Sobran a home in the National Review, in spite of the man’s scabrous, anti-Semitism (he did eventually fire him). This wikipedia entry on Sobran gives some details, and is also useful for its portrayal of the sort of nutcase Buckley so frequently associated with and/or mentored througout they years. I don’t use the word “nutcase” lightly either, Buckley’s magazine was home to a number of writers of dubious sanity, including his late brother-in-law L. Brent Bozell, Jr.
liberalcatnip, no. 105,
Thanks for that clip. Nice to see someone emphasize some of WFB’s more obnoxious views. Re the martinis, I’ve also seen it suggested over the years that Buckley was known to imbibe tee many martoonis, as well as multiple bottles of wine at dinner. Some of the photos that are being used today suggest someone very well oiled.
Buckley can roast in hell.
I once saw Giovanni Costigan, history prof at U of Washington, flay him alive in a debate. Hilarious and much needed in those dark day.
Sadly, Buddy Miles has died. A real human being, unlike Buckley, and unlike Buckley he will be missed.
reprehensible politics aside, i have to thank buckley for completely turning me off conservative politics in my sophomore year in college. that year, i decided to get political magazines from across the spectrum (or what i thought was the spectrum, at the time; i think time was my “liberal” mag, LOL) to work out for myself where i actually found myself on that spectrum.
after a couple months of reading buckley’s mag, refreshingly open about what conservatives thought about the world, i ran screaming the other way, and haven’t looked back.
so he helped me out in that regard, not-so-crypto-fascist that he was.
Free at Last–Ioz
It was Buckley who also vampd up the ‘we must run the leftists out of academia’ crap. In the early ’90′s his foundation was giving out serious dough to right wing campus groups to bring in prominant conservative speakers like Schlafly, D’Sousa and himself. Because of the money, these nutcases had a disproportionate voice on campus. In the case of my particular school, they got a Quaker institution to break with its own charter & start flying an American flag over the Administration building.
I guess about 20 years ago now, I was reading thru the current New Yorker and landed on a “thing” by Buckley, on sailing. I have no idea why I did not just steam on by… but instead read it.
As I got hotter and hotter at the tone of the damned piece… he was always such an asshole and in this piece there was no entertainment value, unlike Firing Line, just condescension… so I dropped a handwritten note to the New Yorker asking that if they keep him in the line up, to at least get something of value from him.
Something like that. And they actually wrote me back a slightly nasty note. Not the only time I wtote them and not the only time they had an attitude in reply.
Glad he is gone, wish he took the dmaned son with him.
************************
BTW, SF’s Matt Gonzales running iwth Nader.
lucid, 132,
Buckley actually started doing that back in the 1950s. In those days, the ability of a tenured professor to speak his or her mind came under attack from the McCarthyite lynch mob, of which Buckley was a enthusiastic member. His targets were pretty much limited to faculty members of Ivy League schools (all-male in those days), their sister women’s colleges like Smith, Barnard, Vassar, etc., and such toney smaller colleges as Bennington, Williams, Colgate, et al. What he and one of his odious sisters (I think the one who married Bozell) tried then was to organize a boycott wherein alumni would stop donating money until certain ideologically unpure professors were fired. The campaign was a resounding flop. I believe a number of the schools actually saw alumni donations increase appreciably in total dollar amounts (though there may have been a slight decrease in the actual number of donations). They abandoned it when they realized it was having the opposite effect that had been hoped for.
Some other things you won’t probably won’t be reading in the Buckley obits is that he didn’t admit to having been a CIA agent until the early 1970s, and only then because his former boss and very close friend E. Howard Hunt was so much in the news. WFB was Hunt’s right-hand man in Mexico City in the early 1950, and they were close enough for Buckley to have been godfather to a couple of Hunt’s children. Buckley has always been very slippery about when he left the agency, I believe when outed he claimed only to have worked there for about 18 months, but in recent years when writing about the Plame matter, he discussed still having been an agent in the late Eisenhower years, which of course means he would have been a spook at the time he published both his book on Joe McCarthy and God And Man At Yale, as well as the years when he got National Review up and running. I think it’s unlikely he ever left the agency, and like Stewart Alsop, Peter Matthiesson, and others, simply posed as a journalist and diplomat (he was some sort of US delegate to the UN in the late Nixon administration) for his undercover work. If this is true, and I think it highly likely, then his entire career may be seen at least in part as a CIA operation to purge the conservative wing of the GOP of its isolationist bloc (still very significant in the late 40s and early 50s) and make it more acceptable to the apparatuses of the National Security State (Pentagon, military industry, spook agencies, FBI).
BTW, more than 1% of the adult population of the US is now in prison (over 2.3 million people to be exact). The economy may be tanking, but at least that portion of it dedicated to the incarceration industry is in excellent shape.
nu thred…………………
LINK
8)