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hmmm might be shaping up to be a ……… 22 April 2008

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.
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soo tired of the lecturing finger.  maybe he could lop it off, make it the monica memorial finger

Former President Bill Clinton talks to media while next to his wife, U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton, as they visit the damage of the Radisson SAS hotel, one of the three hotels bombed last Wednesday [November 2005], in Amman Jordan. (AP Photo)

really bad day for these two escape artists……………..

I caught an odd snip earlier (too early I would think for exits), just a drift off KGO radio with Ron Owens that she had opened with a big lead that shrank and shrank. Last night apparently some media felt they would be able to call it by 9 pm… hmmm

Look at this way, no matter what, Bill will keep his Lecturing Political Finger.

Can you imagine how they will whine with a small small win?

And then Barack, kleig lights on you fella… LOL all the way…

(Brian Williams indicates it is news she ”has taken the lead”. Do they hear themselves?)

***************************************************************

Flagrant thief UPDATE, 5:47 pm

Taken straight from Marc Ambinder at Atlantic blogs:

Obama And White Men

22 Apr 2008 08:25 pm

Clinton won white men 53% to 46% in Pennsylvania, according to the exit polls. That’s down a bit from Ohio, where she won 58% of that vote to Obama’s 42%. So the margin has narrowed…

<!– –>

Exits Suggest Obama Did Better In PA Than Ohio

22 Apr 2008 08:18 pm

From an Obama adviser:

Significant improvements over Ohio, especially among white men and seniors overall. In OH, for example, Clinton got 58% of white men, Obama got 39%. Exits now showing that Obama earned 45% in PA, and Clinton 55%. A 16 point gap narrowed to 10. With voters over 60 in OH, Clinton won 69%, Obama got 28%. In PA, Obama earned 41% of the vote among voters over 60, and Clinton won 59%. The gap among seniors was cut by more than half, from 41 to 19.

***********************

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Comments»

1. liberalcatnip - 22 April 2008

Scarborough seems to hang out in a lot of cloak rooms.

2. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

1 – where he still talks out his ass.

I love to watch Rachel Maddow slap his and Buchanan’s silly bullshit around.

3. liberalcatnip - 22 April 2008

Projected winner: Hillary (MSNBC)

4. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

NBC is call it for Clinton already.

5. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

god, another month (and likely more) of her bitching and lecturing and that fucking laugh.

6. melvin - 22 April 2008

Another month of the goddamned Crown Royal-fuelled anecdotes. “Did I ever tell ya about the time me and my grandpa . . . . . . ” I’m sicker of her fucking grandpa than I ever was of Johnny’s mill.

7. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008
8. marisacat - 22 April 2008

oh she was bound to win, by some margin. But he shaved off percentages in certain demographics.

9. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

What Do Christian Fundamentalists Listen to on Their iPods?

Murdered abortion doctors and organized attempts to fulfill prophecy through U.S. foreign policy are not things to take lightly, but there’s also no getting around the fact that much about evangelical culture is, among other things, very funny. At least it is to the kind of people these books are written for and marketed to. Christian culture is as funny to seculars as secular culture is horrifying to Christians. No one writing on this stuff should pretend it isn’t.

Often the humor is mixed with pathos. As Radosh demonstrates in a chapter on the Christian publishing industry, evangelical culture constantly strives to create G-rated oases in an increasingly X-rated dominant culture. Consider this list of diction do’s and don’ts prepared by Steeple Hill, the Christian division of Harlequin, America’s leading publisher of romance fiction. The list taboo words include “Gosh,” “Golly,” “Gee,” “Dang” and “Heck.” Also blacklisted is mention of “undergarments of any kind.” The word “poop” is excused in Christian mommy-lit, but only as a literal noun; the expression “Oh, poop” is verboten.

No comment is necessary in relaying this sort of thing, in which adults are infantilized by Christian culture keepers. But Radosh picks this low-hanging fruit sparingly. He is aware that spending 300 pages pointing and laughing at evangelicals would get old fast, not to mention make him look like an asshole. He avoids this trap by highlighting members of the Christian culture industry who themselves chafe against the current boundaries of commercial Christian endeavors. Radosh sympathetically profiles several younger evangelical figures attempting to redefine the politics of the acceptable in Christian culture. Early on, Radosh introduces Jay Bakker, son of Jim and Tammy Faye, now the face of a gay-friendly hipster evangelist church called Revolution. Bakker’s early outreach program included T-shirts that said “Religion kills” and stickers that read “As Christians, we’re sorry for being self-righteous bastards.” (As a secular humanist, I forgive you.)

The same schism can be found in the small world of New Testament Techno. In one of the book’s most fascinating and touching scenes, Radosh attends a sparsely attended night of “DJ-led worship” at a rented ballroom in West Reading, Pa. The organizer of the event, a Brit named Andy Hunter, is the genre’s biggest crossover success (ranked the world’s 117th best DJ by DJ Magazine). Hunter describes DJ equipment as a “way of entering the throne room and meeting Jesus.” But his enthusiasm for dancing only goes so far. The frozen poses in break dancing, he tells Radosh, are Satanic, as they are done for the benefit of spectators. “Heaven is going to be great,” says another of the party’s DJ’s. “It’s like the ultimate in intelligent lighting!”

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

8 – Rationally I knew she would, but emotionally I just want this thing to end. I’m sick of both of them. The longer this drags out, considering the states ahead, the more to the right the pandering will get.

Ugh, make it stop.

11. wilfred - 22 April 2008

Ugh, make it stop.

Then we can’t hear McCain sing “Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran” and Hillary pull out her Uzzi and threaten it too :)

12. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

VA Debated PR Plan on Vets’ Suicides

Senior officials at the Veterans Administration debated internally how to downplay evidence of a stunning number of suicides and suicide attempts among veterans who were treated or had sought help at VA hospitals around the country, according to newly disclosed internal VA e-mails.

My apologies if someone already posted that and I missed it.

13. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

all hale the holy blue collar white man, people who demonstrate their superiority by being unable to adapt to a changing world while stubbornly clinging to a world that never existed.

14. NYCO - 22 April 2008

So Madman, what did YOUR father do for a living?

15. Intermittent Bystander - 22 April 2008

Edwards on the courting of white male voters on Colbert, for anyone who missed it last Thursday.

Scroll down for the Edwards link (or you’ll get Ben Franklin, HIllary, and Patrick Murphy first).

Jet skis are involved.

16. Hair Club for Men - 22 April 2008

all hale the holy blue collar white man, people who demonstrate their superiority by being unable to adapt to a changing world while stubbornly clinging to a world that never existed.

Oh they just do what the media tells them like everybody else.

Personally I’d like to make some kind of scrambling program for Rush/Fox that causes all white ethnic men to put on drag, leave the house, and skip down the street singing showtunes.

Then go in and vote for Gravel.

17. marisacat - 22 April 2008

Just let 4 out of Spam File…

think it ws 3 from Intermittent Bystander…

and one from madman. All to this thread.

18. marisacat - 22 April 2008

Fp of the NYT

ELECTION RESULTS
Pennsylvania »

Democrats Vote %

Clinton 351,704 55%
Obama 291,305 45

31% reporting

19. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

So Madman, what did YOUR father do for a living?

After growing up very poor on a farm, he joined the Navy. When h got out, he went to school w/ the GI bill and got a Associates degree as an Electronics Tech. He took business classes at night while he fixed radios. He eventually moved into management. He worked hard as a manager and in the local town council, where he was often the one guy trying to fight back against a mayor who was a bit of a megalomaniac. He was a staunch supporter of Ducks Unlimited who thought there was nothing better than floating in a rowboat casting toward shore or tromping through the woods with a dog and a shotgun looking for grouse or pheasant.

He moved to the right as he got older (though as a Wallace supporter he was arguably already there). We had enormous fights about it, based on his idea that college had filled my head full of commie nonsense and my disappointment that a smart man who I admired so much fell for Ronald Reagans bullshit. He clung to some made-up idea that everyone like him had pulled himself up by his bootstraps while everyone else was suckling at the gov’t teat, despite the fact that our house was paid for with a gov’t supported mortgage, that all of his schooling was paid for by the gov’t and that we lived in an exurb that was made possible by the gov’t subsidizing of oil and sprawl. Our family had so much more than my aunts’ and uncles’ families because my dad worked hard AND took advantage of the programs that were available.

He still voted against the best interests of himself and his children because he believed all of this bullshit about how America was going to hell because of the liberals.

Is that authentic enuff for you to think that I know where of I speak?

20. Intermittent Bystander - 22 April 2008

Thanks, MCat.

21. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008
22. marisacat - 22 April 2008

NYT

ELECTION RESULTS

Pennsylvania »
Democrats Vote %

Clinton 504,584 54%
Obama 427,789 46

46% reporting

23. NYCO - 22 April 2008

Madman: you might want to read Limbo: Blue Collar Roots, White Collar Dreams, by Alfred Lubrano, if you haven’t already. It’s a really good book for people in the in-between generation transitioning between blue-collar backgrounds and white-collar careers.

As for me, I was always pretty disappointed that my father (former auto worker, and a passionate Reagan and GOP despiser to this day) was such an admirer of Bill Clinton. That said, I don’t know who I could have suggested to fill the gap. He’s not for Obama, BTW, although he would dutifully pull the lever if he was in a state that mattered in the general election. He would probably prefer Hillary, but only because of his love for all things Bill.

Actually my dad was an Edwards man, but, well.

24. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

That sounds like an interesting book.

25. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

IOZ

A coworker asked me who I voted for today, and I said that I didn’t vote. She asked me why not, her disapproval being frankly palpable, and I told her I didn’t vote for the same reason I don’t always come to complete stops at stop signs: the act reeks of undue deference to constituted authority. The presumptive obligation of each citizen to vote is one of those goofy tenets of the democratic civic religion. Like most religious precepts and practices, we continue to valorize it even as we abandon it. Well over half of us now abstain. Even Catholicism is in better shape. I actually will haul myself into a booth if there’s a seat on the city council at stake, because, fuck, man, the potholes.

26. liberalcatnip - 22 April 2008

Looks like my 7% prediction may happen yet. I’ve been doing a pretty good job on these predictions if I must say so myself. :)

27. Intermittent Bystander - 22 April 2008

26 – an electoral telepath like you should be on television, and better rewarded..

(Apparently it pays really, really, really well.)

28. marisacat - 22 April 2008

LECTION RESULTS
Pennsylvania »

Democrats Vote %
Clinton 896,941 54%
Obama 754,489 46

76% reporting

******************

Obama giving a loooong speech. he just claimed the mantle of JFK and FDR, he is “running to restore their legacy”.

Now I KNOW he and his and the Dems will fully cave on Social Security. Unless held back, as the game was under Bush, by old time R,.

What a shitfest

29. marisacat - 22 April 2008

LECTION RESULTS
Pennsylvania »

Democrats Vote %
Clinton 896,941 54%
Obama 754,489 46

76% reporting

******************

Obama giving a loooong speech. he just claimed the mantle of JFK and FDR, he is “running to restore their legacy”.

Now I KNOW he and his and the Dems will fully cave on Social Security. Unless held back, as the game was under Bush, by old time R,.

What a shitfest

30. marisacat - 22 April 2008

stem winder ended………………………

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

wait, wasn’t she supposed to be dead if she didn’t win by double digits?

They make this shit up as they go along.

32. marisacat - 22 April 2008

ELECTION RESULTS
Pennsylvania »
Democrats Vote %

Clinton 1,041,442 55%
Obama 850,195 45

85% reporting

***********

Geraghty at NROnline (he is pretty straightforward with this kind of stuff) has some breakdown in county returns.

Honestly I thought he might be able to hold her to between 4-6 pts.

Does not look that way.

33. marisacat - 22 April 2008

31

Madman, she may be headed for double digits.

34. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

oops … yup.

ugh, it’s never going to end.

35. liberalcatnip - 22 April 2008

Oops…there goes my close prediction.

KO sure was whiny and PO’ed after Obama’s speech. That big bad Hillary mocked him by stealing his slogan! Well I never!

I don’t get why candidates jump to the next state the nite of a primary. I know they want to kick off the next phase but it seems awfully ungrateful of them not to stick around and thank their team.

36. NYCO - 22 April 2008

Bill Clinton was (and still is, amazingly) my dad’s absolute hero. He was the anti-Reagan, in his eyes… so, I can only guess that Reagan was the anti-someone-else in the eyes of some working class people. All winning presidential candidates win because they embodied hope to someone… even if it was false hope… which it always seems to be in the end… it just seems to bounce back and forth between the parties.

The dilemma I am having, is that if you don’t like Hillary (or McCain), that means you’re not a flag lapel pin wearing person and hence are un-American (what is more American than boundless assurance of the eternal life through flag waving Jeeeeeezus-war?); but, if you’re not turned on by Obama, that means you’re a “hope rejector” and therefore also un-American (because what is more American than boundless hope for eternal life through high-priced college edumacations, green-collar jobs -all of which will be totally cool and never demeaning or poorly paid, apparently- and universal globality brought to you by those who can afford overseas tourism?)

It’s a catch-22. No one can win, except maybe the recovering American.

37. liberalcatnip - 22 April 2008

ugh, it’s never going to end.

Nope. Never. Not in this lifetime.

38. marisacat - 22 April 2008

She stole his slogan several battles ago. Considering that is classic politics, KO can get over it.

Pretty dumb.

****

My father hated Reagan. Any reactionary, winger was up to be pilloried… Of course we were out here, we watched his rise. Goldwater too… same thing. That whole Wm F Buckley conservatism.

***

And not to worry, Liberal SF based radio is charging forward. Listneing now. Any caller raises an issue about Obama, in one form or another and often very directly, they are called racist.

I not only left the Dems, I damn well left the Liberals. Spineless and tongueless and eyeless as they are.

39. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

#36

I accepted some time ago that I’m not an American.

Just found this via Boing Boing: New Amnesty International ad

40. marisacat - 22 April 2008

Lead editorial in the NYT for tomorrow. Apparenlly the Obama camp is sending it out.

41. liberalcatnip - 22 April 2008

An interesting find behind an unfortunate tragedy: Oil painting ‘originated in East’

42. marisacat - 22 April 2008

LOL then liberal talk radio gets a real racist. And he is getting treated with kid gloves. he let off some jaw dropping sentences too.

I will say what the Dem party connected radio out here hates, if anyone dare call in and say they are just dissatisfied. All around, up and down. Sideways too… Nobody is acceptable they may give it all a miss. Buzzzt on to the next caller so fast.

43. liberalcatnip - 22 April 2008

The “racist” spin is in full bloom again at dkos.

44. diane - 22 April 2008

Thanks a helluva lot Madman, I’m still trying to recover from the Laptop Ruling you linked to in the last thread, the Bush shrine pic was quite enough for me in one day.

I really want to watch them investigate the laptops of the Fortune 500 CEOs….especially in the defense, oil and communications industries…oh silly me, they have their own jets and are beyond suspicion anyway.

45. liberalcatnip - 22 April 2008

Just watching a Frontline rerun here: Hot Politics (about climate change)

46. marisacat - 22 April 2008

ELECTION RESULTS
Pennsylvania »
Democrats Vote %

Clinton 1,167,563 55%
Obama 962,136 45

94% reporting

47. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 April 2008

sorry diane!

who needs freedom, anyway?

48. diane - 22 April 2008

47

I’ll accept the apology hon. Of course I’m glad you posted it, such a blizzard of shit…….

49. marisacat - 22 April 2008

well there is always hope. A 5 year old American Grizzly rose up today and bit into one of the trainers (at a movie stunt animal training camp). Went for the jugular. The trainer died.

We could take a lesson, frankly.

50. marisacat - 22 April 2008

they are playing lines from Obama speech. “I can do what I did in Illinois and Washington, bringing the two parties together to rein in their power”.

I am sorry, it is laughable.

51. marisacat - 22 April 2008

here is the graf ( full text “as prepared” ):

Or this time, we can recognize that you can’t be the champion of working Americans if you’re funded by the lobbyists who drown out their voices. We can do what we’ve done in this campaign, and say that we won’t take a dime of their money. We can do what I did in Illinois, and in Washington, and bring both parties together to rein in their power so we can take our government back. It’s our choice.

52. moiv - 22 April 2008

Booman is bumfuzzled.

Obama simply got crushed in Bucks, giving up 29,000 votes. I think most people expected him to poll well in Bucks, perhaps even winning it. I also expected Obama to win Montgomery County easily. Instead he lost it 51-49. In Delaware and Chester Counties he won 55-45, but he wound up losing the suburbs decisively because of the lopsided result in Bucks. No one predicted this.

:::

The Wilkes-Barre/Scranton area was a kind of homebase for Clinton because her father grew up there, but I didn’t expect her to do anywhere near this well there.

In any case, we can try to find explanations for the results, but these are the areas where Obama underperformed. He did worse than the exit polls suggested he would do, and I have no easy answer for that either.

It doesn’t look like Bob Casey and Patrick Murphy’s endorsements helped at all, as they would have been most helpful in the Scranton and Bucks County areas. I didn’t expect those endorsements to work miracles, but I thought they would be at least somewhat helpful and there is no evidence that they were.

53. moiv - 22 April 2008

50-51

Ah yes, Obama’s comedy highlights. I heard him say that, and laughed out loud.

54. diane - 22 April 2008

Synchronicity (re last thread):

U.S. leads the world in producing prisoners

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world’s population. But it has almost a quarter of the world’s prisoners.

The United States leads the world in producing prisoners, a reflection of a relatively recent and now entirely distinctive American approach to crime and punishment. Americans are locked up for crimes — from writing bad checks to using drugs — that would rarely produce prison sentences in other countries. And in particular they are kept incarcerated far longer than prisoners in other nations.

Criminologists and legal scholars in other industrialized nations say they are mystified and appalled by the number and length of American prison sentences.
….

The United States comes in first, too, on a more meaningful list from the prison studies center, the one ranked in order of the incarceration rates. It has 751 people in prison or jail for every 100,000 in population. (If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up.)

55. marisacat - 23 April 2008

oh I have to go read Boober. I am usre he is stunned. Philadelphia came in significantly under waht obama needed…. as well did Catholics, despite Casey, Kerry, Kennedy, Shriver(s) and Kerry sibs. And the inner burbs around Phil.

I just read tonight that they held the exits back for sometime, the split shown in them was 4 pts. The pollsters worried that people who voted for HIllary tended not to say so.

Who knows.

I had htought it would be narrower.

Pundits are not really discussing some of the issues with his campainging style. LOL He so rejects Inner Evita. Wants to do it with “touring” and viewing the people… and massive air war. Somehow not enough.

56. liberalcatnip - 23 April 2008

George Galloway literally smacked upside the head by a stress ball.

My favourite paragraph:

Mr Galloway, who has survived expulsion from the Labour Party over his comments on the Iraq war as well as an appearance on Celebrity Big Brother, where he famously pretended to be a cat while wearing a leotard, resumed campaigning after a cup of tea.

57. liberalcatnip - 23 April 2008

I was reading boober’s disgruntled diary comments thinking “this looks like a job for kid oakland” and, quel surprise, look who’s on the rec list rallying the O troops with his message of hopeiness – right on cue. He’s like the dkos housemother. There there kids…group hug.

That place is entirely too predictable.

58. liberalcatnip - 23 April 2008
59. wu ming - 23 April 2008

i’m surprised foreigners are surprised at the draconian prison fetish in the states. they need only look at other banana republics, and then meditate on the consequences of imprisoned citizens being stripped of the franchise but counted (in the great tradition of the 3/5 compromise) in the apportionment process.

the legal system is a tool for racial and political gerrymandering. the drug war especially so.

60. NYCO - 23 April 2008

I hate to laugh — because really, this whole phenomenon is not funny — but Hillary sure is doing a bangup job of moving the goal posts.

Which I think is her primary intention… going long (2012)… although I can’t imagine why she thinks she’s going to personally profit from it.

61. NYCO - 23 April 2008

One more thought while I have the time…

Obama’s obviously going to be the nominee, but I can already sense more people daring to openly ask unfortunate after-the-fact questions, such as: Is he the best possible nominee? The best possible black nominee? The best possible black intellectual nominee?… Although, I don’t expect those questions will be much tolerated from here on out, if they ever were.

I do feel that any problems that some Democratic voters have with Obama run fundamentally deeper than his race or his college education. My guess is that his biography is just a really hard sell – if so, a tough hurdle, since his biography has been his central selling point. I have always thought that the perception that he is “foreign,” and disconnected from the mainstream “immigrant comes to America, works hard, makes good” narrative hurts him worse than any racism or classism. (His father wasn’t an immigrant who labored on the streets paved with gold… he was a foreign student who didn’t even stay in America. Ouch.)

If Obama had by some chance been touted as a nominee 20 years ago, this part of his biography would have been de-emphasized, if not actually suppressed, by party kingmakers. His experiences ministering to the less fortunate in Chicago would have been played up. But on the contrary, his family background has been emphasized and celebrated by his campaign — I think, with little grasp of what sort of narrative Americans expect to go with their American dream. And this is a narrative that is in fact color-blind.

62. JJB - 23 April 2008

MCat, no. 40,

Voters are getting tired of [negative campaigning]; it is demeaning the political process; and it does not work.

Do these people pay attention at all? Attack ads, negative campaigning, whatever you call it does work, extremely well, as a matter of fact. That’s why we keep seeing it over and over, year after year. People may get sick of it, but they allow it to influence their votes. Frankly, I’d be only too happy to see all political advertising banned, though I’m certain that will never happen, there’s far too much money to be made by all parties concerned.

63. JJB - 23 April 2008

Much interesting material at Juan Cole’s site, including this that was posted yesterday morning:

Zogby: Clinton 10 Points ahead in Pennsylvania

Zogby is reporting as follows, that there is a late surge for Clinton in Pennsylvania and that her margin is being given to her by white, ethnic, Catholic men. It also seems clear that as undecided voters (which fell recently from 8% to 6%) and those who wanted “someone else” (fell from 4% to 3%) have made up their minds, they have tended to go for Clinton. Otherwise Obama’s percentages have been pretty stable though perhaps falling slightly. Clinton’s increases are beyond the margin of error.

Zogby was spectacularly wrong on a number of occasions earlier this year, so much so that I was wondering why anyone even bothered paying attention to his numbers. He nailed this one, apparently.

More from Informed Comment, this being from today’s post:

Hillary Clinton’s win in Pennsylvania just was not big enough to allow her to hope to win the elected delegate count. She is increasingly using dark and exaggerated rhetoric and 2/3s of Democrats complain that she has gone too negative (less than half say that about Obama). Her exaggerations yesterday extended into the realm of international politics in a most unfortunate way. It seems clear to me that she cannot win the nomination via elected delegates and that she is hoping to win by scaring the super delegates about Obama. This strategy is counterproductive for the Democratic Party and for the country. Clinton needed to win by well into the double digits in Pennsylvania (which is how she began in the polling there months ago) in order to remain credible. 10 points doesn’t do it. Obama actually won Texas, which will be a headline in June when all the counting is done there (don’t ask). It is over. She should stop before more damage is done.

The Israeli spy ring that penetrated the US Pentagon to steal high-tech secrets including nuclear ones was bigger than just Jonathan Pollard. It is an open secret in US security circles that no foreign country spies on the US more intensively than Israel. And, apparently, none has been more successful in actually prying loose top secret documents. Sy Hersh’s sources alleged to him that secrets that went to Israel were either in turn picked up by Soviet moles in Israel or were sold on the black market and ended up with the Soviet Union.

The damage that Israeli spying has done to US security is immense, not only because of such leaks but also because of Israeli reverse engineering of US technology and the pirating of it. Further, the nuclearization of the Middle East that the Israelis initiated has the potential to drag us all into Armageddon.

The Israeli Right is always going on about threats to Israel’s existence, even though it is the most powerful country in the Middle East. But no one ever brings up its strangulation of the Palestinian nation, its siege of Gaza, its dispossession of the West Bankers. The right makes an imagined future threat the basis for actual victimization of others in the present. America’s security is deeply threatened by the ongoing Israeli colonization projects in the Middle East, as should have been clear for some time.

He also takes Hillary to task for her threats to Iran.

64. JJB - 23 April 2008

BTW, Duncan Black exerted just about no effort to cover his home state’s primary last night, and the only post of any substance this morning is remarkably wishy-washy, reminiscent of a response by a college student who passed out at a frat mixer and didn’t get around to doing the required reading for the early morning class he barely managed to drag himself to. I think he just typed up a bunch of Conventional Wisdom nuggets he vaguely remembers from watching TV last night.

65. wilfred - 23 April 2008

#63 Just looked at Eschaton which I hadn’t been to in ages. What a boring FP that place is, hard to believe there are thousands of comments underneath those snippets.

66. marisacat - 23 April 2008

62

well I did not think it was a smart piece of political writiing. I have read at various of the sites that the editorial board at the NYT wanted to endorse obama and PinchPunch steered it to Hillary. Certainly their writing and their political page had indicated that to me prior to the endorsement.

I still laugh that their introductory larger report on Michelle (think it was following the SC win) left out her years (a few) in the Daley office. Geesh get real. Just as the ’92 election, almost MSM wide but for the odd limited comment, left out Hillary’s time on the Wal Mart board.

67. marisacat - 23 April 2008

I have to say I find Juan Cole silly on the big US elections. He went into a baby funk following Kerry’s loss and almost wept at hsi post. Saying the party should never elevate anyone but Southern White Males. And thus win.

Long term, is Bill lookin’ like a win?

The big shaft from Bill (and Hill) in office and poor Gore finding out well past middle age that he never wanted to be a pol ( you lose like that you come back and take the dmaned thing away from Bush 4 years later) CURED ME.

68. wilfred - 23 April 2008

Just got in and flipped on the TV, the View was on and Maria Shriver was the guest. Wow, another really bad case of plastic surgery, that eye-job is frightening. And of course the ladies say zippo to her about it and act like she hasn’t mutilated herself.

Guess she let go of dignity many years ago so why am i surprised.

69. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008
70. marisacat - 23 April 2008

why on earth would the ladies, who all creamed for Obama, ask a pillar of strength of his Catholic front (LOL) about her eyes?

She and Arnold have such a scam going. The bi partisan couple, thisclose to Green Socialists and yet hard core wingers under their nipped tucked shaved and lubricated skins.

I called their manufactured heads skulls when he “won” (after the Dems threw the Recall). I wasn’t wrong. Perfectly horrible people.

71. marisacat - 23 April 2008

One thing I am honestly delighted about – and it has to do with CASEY not Hillary (via Tapper at ABC/Political Punch):

Clinton won Lackawanna County, the home of Obama-backing Sen. Bob Casey, with 74% to Obama’s 26%.

Pretty pathetic.

And I am pleased about the waning dying ability of Kennedy as kingmaker. And the descendant ilk he drags with him from Kerry to Patrick Kennedy the chinless wonder out of RI.

72. NYCO - 23 April 2008

I know who was responsible for Clinton winning Lackawanna County…

http://www.nbc.com/office

It was Angela and her superior organization skills. What a bitch!

73. melvin - 23 April 2008

Politics Break

The request liines are open at Radio MCAT. This request from melvin is dedicated to all our Bay area listeners:

California Dreaming, by 11-year-old Sungha Jung

74. diane - 23 April 2008

59

Furthering your point wu (the article is much longer than this excerpt):

War on drugs leads to explosion of female incarcerations.


By 1980, the number of drug-related arrests stood at 581,000. Just 10 years later, that number had nearly doubled to 1,090,000.

In 2005, the FBI reported that law enforcement officers made more arrests for drug-abuse violations (1.8 million) than for any other offense.

….Cannabis is classified as a Schedule I drug, which means that it is one of the most dangerous drugs imaginable.

Cocaine, on the other hand, a leading cause of overdose deaths, is classified as a Schedule II. So is PCP. Go figure.

In 2005, nearly 43 percent of all drug arrests were for cannabis possession (37.7 percent)….
….
…. Unintentional drug overdoses have become the second-most common form of accidental death after car crashes…[wonder why so many want to be numbed in this paradise, and don’t want, or can’t afford Doctors to legally assist them in this - diane]
….
… In the rest of the Western world, assistance with drug and alcohol problems is widely accessible. They predominantly view heavy drug use or full-blown addiction as public health issues, not behavioral issues subject to prosecution (except in cases involving other criminal activity)
….
One … woman… hooked on prescription drugs [vicodin] ……. is serving nearly three years in the sun-baked and dilapidated Arizona State Prison Complex in Perryville.

At this point, drug violations and property offenses account for a majority (59 percent) of females in state prison. By comparison, men in both of these offense categories add up to just 39.5 percent. Meanwhile, in federal prison, women and men convicted of drug offenses constitute nearly 60 percent of inmates.

Tina Thomas knows that she has a quadruple strike to overcome. She’s a black female with a former cocaine addiction, in a state that prefers to lock people up for substance abuse and that will deprive her of public assistance when she gets out. She now faces a lifetime ban on federal benefits, including contracts, licenses and grants.

As a drug offender, Thomas won’t be able to get Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) if she should ever need it. Food assistance, higher-education funding and even income tax deductions for pursuing a college degree are all yanked away from most felony drug offenders.

Yet nearly every other category of ex-offender-including sex offenders, murderers, arsonists and perpetrators of domestic violence-is eligible for these benefits. And, as if all this isn’t bad enough, Thomas will find that even getting a job will be difficult, because she must report herself as an ex-felon.
.…

75. marisacat - 23 April 2008

oh thanks for that melvin!

****

NYCO

well I figured she would win Lakawanna, Luzern etc, that is her stronghold. But it should have been much closer.

Casey is sheer rolling toxin. I have zero desire ot see him elevated more than Shumer forced on us. And women bought into a very deceitful campaign he ran. He is BELOVED at The Corner/NRO. By Perkins of Focus on the Family and so on.

76. marisacat - 23 April 2008

diane

I maintain that getting MJ off the Schedule I is going to be near impossible. Which is insanity.

77. diane - 23 April 2008

74

Yet, I could swear, listening to senate hearings in the Hallowed Halls of the US Congress, that a large percentage of our dear representatives are smashed on our dollar……….

78. diane - 23 April 2008

76

Marisa, what a perfect population for the new waiver increase…who needs a draft?

79. marisacat - 23 April 2008

well the lid was blown off (briefly) what state of inebriation “our leaders” operate under duing Bush 1, when it was revealed that as Baker jetted maniacally in criss cross diplomacy games… that AF1 was awash in Halcyon.

At the time my father had recently been on halcyon so I had osme idea what it could do… and in reading about it/Halcyon at the time, it was one drug where European dosing protocols were stronger than ours and they mandated much closer monitoring of that particular drug.

I think they are all flipped out, either on their own hype or whatever else they have access to.

80. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008

Via Boing Boing: It’s Just a Plant

81. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008

Make sure to click on “The Story” to read the book.

82. marisacat - 23 April 2008

LOL from the Mike Allen Politico email, I am so relieved they have a home!

SECONDS, from AP: ‘Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and wife Maria Shriver have purchased a 25-acre tract in an exclusive coastal enclave in Santa Barbara County for $4.7 million. The Santa Barbara area has long been a magnet for celebrities, from Oprah Winfrey to Michael Jackson. Schwarzenegger snapped up a parcel in the Rancho Monte Alegre project, a former ranch in Carpinteria dotted with waterfalls and lush canyons that is being transformed into privately owned estates ranging from 20 to 720 acres, the Los Angeles Times reported this month. It wasn’t clear when, or if, the governor plans to build on the site, although it allows a home up to 8,500 square feet. He flirted with buying a home in Sacramento after he was elected in 2003, but is still commuting from his sprawling compound in Los Angeles’ Brentwood area.’

83. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008

John Ashcroft Yelled at Me Tonight. No Joke.

ME: Actually, Mr. Ashcroft, my question was about this other document. (laughter and applause) This other document is a section from the judgment of the Tokyo War Tribunal. After WWII, the Tokyo Tribunal was basically the Nuremberg Trials for Japan. Many Japanese leaders were put on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity, including torture. And among the tortures listed was the “water treatment,” which we nowadays call waterboarding…

ASHCROFT: (interrupting) This is a speech, not a question. I don’t mind, but it’s not a question.

ME: It will be, sir, just give me a moment. The judgment describes this water treatment, and I quote, “the victim was bound or otherwise secured in a prone position; and water was forced through his mouth and nostrils into his lungs and stomach.” One man, Yukio Asano, was sentenced to fifteen years hard labor by the allies for waterboarding American troops to obtain information. Since Yukio Asano was trying to get information to help defend his country–exactly what you, Mr. Ashcroft, say is acceptible for Americans to do–do you believe that his sentence was unjust? (boisterous applause and shouts of “Good question!”)

ASHCROFT: (angrily) Now, listen here. You’re comparing apples and oranges, apples and oranges. We don’t do anything like what you described.

ME: I’m sorry, I was under the impression that we still use the method of putting a cloth over someone’s face and pouring water down their throat…

ASHCROFT: (interrupting, red-faced, shouting) Pouring! Pouring! Did you hear what she said? “Putting a cloth over someone’s face and pouring water on them.” That’s not what you said before! Read that again, what you said before!

ME: Sir, other reports of the time say…

ASHCROFT: (shouting) Read what you said before! (cries of “Answer her fucking question!” from the audience) Read it!

ME: (firmly) Mr. Ashcroft, please answer the question.

ASHCROFT: (shouting) Read it back!

ME: “The victim was bound or otherwise secured in a prone position; and water was forced through his mouth and nostrils into his lungs and stomach.”

ASHCROFT: (shouting) You hear that? You hear it? “Forced!” If you can’t tell the difference between forcing and pouring…does this college have an anatomy class? If you can’t tell the difference between forcing and pouring…

Jeebus … fully over-the-rainbow, around-the-bend, head-over-heels nuts.

84. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008

oops, forgot to blockquote it.

85. cad - 23 April 2008

I just glanced at DK to see their spin on PA, and it was predictable and can be summed as so:

“She only won by 9.4 percent! Not a double digit! Damn MSM! But Obama did much better than expected. A victory for Obama!”

86. NYCO - 23 April 2008

85. I like the part where Kos is saying that it just doesn’t matter that Obama spent 3 times as much as Hillary on PA — “because he can!”

I wonder if Obama will put his wingtips up the desk in the Oval Office and smoke a cheroot made out of rolled $100 bills “because he can.” Somehow, I think he wouldn’t. (Hillary, ironically, just might… and well, as for Bill, let’s not go there.)

87. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008
88. marisacat - 23 April 2008

Temple elephant in India got the email from the CA Grizzly bear… the elephant charged a temple he hwere he was performing as part of temple ritual, killing three. Think he raised the ante considerably. The Grizzly got one jugular.

89. Arcturus - 23 April 2008

49. silly humans who thought to tame arctos

83. Was that the follow-up to Could you explain what the nature of your qualms were in discussing enhanced interrogation techniques in the White House?

(from an alt comp as my main scans endlessly for nasty malware infections – can he wipe the slate clean?

90. marisacat - 23 April 2008

From NYT The Caucus:

Edwards Backers Team Up With Obama

By Julie Bosman

No, John Edwards has not yet endorsed a candidate.

But nearly 50 of his most prominent backers lined up behind Senator Barack Obama today, in a gesture designed to give Mr. Obama a heavy boost of support less than two weeks before the North Carolina primary on May 6.

91. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008
92. Arcturus - 23 April 2008

play that funky music, big boyz

93. liberalcatnip - 23 April 2008

Kitty boxing

No more watching 24 for my cats! I was wondering where they were getting their techniques from…

94. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008

93 – What, the mice are showing signs of being roughed up when the kitties drop their bodies off as presents?

Oh, and protest is: ‘recklessly creating … a hazardous or physically dangerous condition by an act which serves no legitimate purpose.’

95. liberalcatnip - 23 April 2008

93. Not the mice – me!

96. liberalcatnip - 23 April 2008

Petraeus set for Central Command

He would replace Navy Adm William Fallon, who stepped down in March after a reported split with President George W Bush over his policy on Iran.
[...]
Mr Gates said Gen Petraeus would not leave Iraq until later summer or early autumn, if his appointment is confirmed, in order to ensure he had enough time for a proper handover.

October surprise, anyone?

97. liberalcatnip - 23 April 2008

This one should be titled, ‘Excuse me, but how did this diary get on the rec list?’ What a mess.

98. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008

Race To The White House: Buchanan Calls Rachel Maddow’s Arguments “Marxist”

LOL … they really repeat the same crap. It just baffles me that lefties (and center-left) can’t out argue guys like him. Maddow stands up better than most, I guess, but “marxist dialectic”?!?!

99. Arcturus - 23 April 2008

Levin – in a ‘terse’ letter to Gates, asks Pentagon to investigate its use of analysts

got get ‘em, tiger!

100. liberalcatnip - 23 April 2008

98. That was a hilarious moment last nite. You should have seen the look on Maddow’s face.

101. Arcturus - 23 April 2008

98. it’s the only retort left for good amurrikuns when fadec w/reasonable argument- whether it’s a dinosaur Buchanasaurus or a baffled Booman

102. liberalcatnip - 23 April 2008

Here’s the clip. I’m having problems getting YouTube videos to load so, hopefully that one loads for you.

103. liberalcatnip - 23 April 2008

Oops…should have followed your link first, MitM.

104. marisacat - 23 April 2008

98

that is because “marxist” is going ot be a big buzz word from the Right w/r/t Obama in the summer/fall.

105. Arcturus - 23 April 2008

does that mean they’ll be dissecting socialized banking/investment risks? ;)

106. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008
107. liberalcatnip - 23 April 2008
108. melvin - 23 April 2008

A few years ago I read an analysis of these “rogue” elephants that go on rampages. Of those that were later examined, quite a number were suffering from brain tumors.

That’s not to discount the possibility that some just finally say “Oh screw this,” and commit suicide by cop.

109. marisacat - 23 April 2008

99 oops scratch that, should be 105

I don’t theenk so….

For my sins I drop in on the most readable of the righties … pick up some idea of what is coming.

110. marisacat - 23 April 2008

108

I agree, most likely illness plays a part…

111. marisacat - 23 April 2008

105

Just thought again on that… and had a hearty laugh.

LOL if they bothered to look at banking they have to admit (and the little Dems would cringe cuz they really want to push the bathos of his mother on Food Stamps – BUT also not work to strengthen the program) … but they’d have to discuss that his mother, an anthropologist consulted as an expert with the Ford Foundation, World Bank, USAID and her speciality was microloans, esp to women. Just a few decades ahead of Gummeen and I bet at less than usorious rates.

So sick of the propaganda on BOTH sides.

112. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008

don’t know if anybody linked to this already: PA Progressive is shutting down his blog

113. Arcturus - 23 April 2008

the propaganda:

Like A Kiss That Never Ends (David Murray)

(I did not know that about momma O, thnx

114. marisacat - 23 April 2008

aha!

McCain has been receiving and pocketing tax free medical disability pension. Geraghty at The Campaign Spot at NRO

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/ it is a couple entries down.

I think the trade off is that Cindy outta release, at the very least, what TH-K released in 04, the most recent two years, the front pages of her 1040. No attachments, nothing about her childrens trust funds, but the minimum. Not enough, but probably impossible to get more.

LOLL I watched Cindy proudly say that McCain plans to hike the full perimeter of the Grand Canyon iwht their kids.

115. marisacat - 23 April 2008

1112

I had not linked to it, but i emailed John Morgan a few days ago. I had been following the mess thru his site.

116. marisacat - 23 April 2008

113

the truth is a lot more interesting than the ‘no chicken in any pot, and in fact no pot’ version the Dems tell.

I also got damned sick of the ObamaRamas poor mouthing. Sick to death of it in fact. This is a lot more detailed than their versions.

117. cad - 23 April 2008

They’re fucking Looney Tunes at DK:

“It wasn’t 10! It was 9.4!”

“It’s a MSM conspiracy! Help us Kos!”

“Obama won even though he lost!”

“Clinton has to drop out now after this latest win debacle!”

“According to my slide ruler, she actually only won by two/fifths of a an almost nine percent spread which means Obama really won!”

“Waaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!”

118. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008
119. wu ming - 23 April 2008

LOLL I watched Cindy proudly say that McCain plans to hike the full perimeter of the Grand Canyon iwht their kids.

i can’t wait to see him swim across the mississippi.

120. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008

War crimes next October surprise?

Suddenly, something happens overseas that throws the presidential campaigns off the TV screens entirely: Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, on vacation in Italy, is arrested and brought to The Hague to face war crimes charges.

Presidential campaigns try to prepare for these “October surprises,” late-breaking events and crises that can radically alter the race for the White House, such as the attack on the USS Cole in October 2000.
But now there’s a new element in the mix, something presidential campaigns have never had to plan for.
What if the October surprise is the greatest legal conflict between America and Europe since the creation of the Atlantic alliance?

Don’t think it can’t happen. I think the arrest abroad of an American is only a matter of time and, between now and November, is at least as likely as another terrorist attack on U.S. soil. As a former Marine Corps Commandant, Gen. Paul X. Kelley, reminded the nation in a July 2007 Washington Post op-ed, written with a University of Virginia law professor: “Violations of Common Article 3 are ‘war crimes’ for which everyone involved — potentially up to and including the president of the United States — may be tried in any of the other 193 countries that are parties to the conventions.”

Courts in Italy and Germany already have issued warrants demanding the arrest of CIA operatives for illegally kidnapping and allegedly torturing citizens and residents of their nations. More than 30 U.S. citizens have been named, their CIA covers blown. These warrants have not been executed, primarily for diplomatic reasons. But they could be acted upon rapidly with a simple decision by either government.
And other names — of those directly involved in “enhanced interrogation techniques” — are starting to emerge overseas.

Former high-ranking government officials might want to also think twice about traveling to Europe this summer. Just this week, new evidence emerged that waterboarding and other blatant methods of torture were specifically and directly authorized in White House meetings. Anyone present is now potentially culpable before an international court.

121. marisacat - 23 April 2008

well in the case of Rumsfeld Obama already has a “isn’t he nice” on the record from when Rummy was nominated.

I don’t expect much in the way of supporting commentary, despite his diversionary slither in the PA press about having his AG look into criminal/other issues w/r/t Bush admin.

If you cannot be clear on Rummy when he is nominated for the post…

122. melvin - 23 April 2008

117 The Looney Tunes . . .

I love dkos logic. Obama lost by ten points, therefore every man, woman, and child in PA is a racist hick.

123. marisacat - 23 April 2008

119

well yeah the problem is his arms…

But iirc a senators’ pay is about 170K now. I am more interested in who pays for the valet who dresses him. Is that a courtesy provided to him from the Navy? At least in DC… my guess would be yes.

We have these lousy second raters running, all from the senate and yet they are elevated as ancient landed aristocrats. A vaguely ducal level.

124. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 April 2008
125. marisacat - 23 April 2008

nu thred

LINK

8)

126. marisacat - 23 April 2008

how do you even FIND a birthday celebration for Adolph?


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