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For some reason this photo made me laugh… 23 May 2008

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, Cuba, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, South America, Venezuela - Chavez, Viva La Revolucion!, WAR!.
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Supporters of Democratic presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama wait before a town hall meeting at the B’Nai Tora Congregation in Boca Raton, Florida, May 22, 2008. (Carlos Barria/Reuters)

Just for context, a report on his appearance before the B’nai Tora, in the Palm Beach Post.

And… Obama’s remarks ”as prepared” for the Cubans, the Cuban American National Foundation… Renewing US Leadership in the Americas

Since the Bush Administration launched a misguided war in Iraq, its policy in the Americas has been negligent toward our friends, ineffective with our adversaries, disinterested in the challenges that matter in peoples’ lives, and incapable of advancing our interests in the region.

No wonder, then, that demagogues like Hugo Chavez have stepped into this vacuum. His predictable yet perilous mix of anti-American rhetoric, authoritarian government, and checkbook diplomacy offers the same false promise as the tried and failed ideologies of the past. But the United States is so alienated from the rest of the Americas that this stale vision has gone unchallenged, and has even made inroads from Bolivia to Nicaragua. And Chavez and his allies are not the only ones filling the vacuum. While the United States fails to address the changing realities in the Americas, others from Europe and Asia – notably China – have stepped up their own engagement. Iran has drawn closer to Venezuela, and just the other day Tehran and Caracas launched a joint bank with their windfall oil profits.

It’s still Norte as Daddy… I cannot wait to hear what Chavez has to say to President Obama OR McCain. At least I will be amused.

Catch this…

I will maintain the embargo. It provides us with the leverage to present the regime with a clear choice: if you take significant steps toward democracy, beginning with the freeing of all political prisoners, we will take steps to begin normalizing relations. That’s the way to bring about real change in Cuba – through strong, smart and principled diplomacy.

And this…

And we know that freedom across our hemisphere must go beyond elections. In Venezuela, Hugo Chavez is a democratically elected leader. But we also know that he does not govern democratically. He talks of the people, but his actions just serve his own power. Yet the Bush Administration’s blustery condemnations and clumsy attempts to undermine Chavez have only strengthened his hand.

He goes on and on… he gets to Haiti, to Colombia, Mexico, the Drug war, lards the speech with talk of the poor (always with us: we never free them, we make certain)… he even quotes Jose Marti Waging democracy abroad is nothing new. It’s just the way it is.

Jesus of the Americas. We are so blessed.

Jose Marti once wrote. “It is not enough to come to the defense of freedom with epic and intermittent efforts when it is threatened at moments that appear critical. Every moment is critical for the defense of freedom.”

Every moment is critical. And this must be our moment. Freedom. Opportunity. Dignity. These are not just the values of the United States – they are the values of the Americas. They were the cause of Washington’s infantry and Bolivar’s cavalry; of Marti’s pen and Hidalgo’s church bells.

That legacy is our inheritance. That must be our cause. And now must be the time that we turn the page to a new chapter in the story of the Americas.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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Comments»

1. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

Kos is wetting himself with glee at this moment, no doubt, over the Chavez-bashing.

I, OTOH, and giving the screen my Official Bad Jew’s Middle Finger at the moment. The left finger, of course.

Barack, you are such an asshole. >:

2. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

In other Florida news, Project Orange Crush.

From the Moonie Times:

The 30 members of the Democratic Party panel deciding the fate of Florida and Michigan’s delegates to the nominating convention are being inundated with letters — and messages written on oranges — from party faithful eager for a resolution favorable to their presidential candidate or state.

Florida Demands Representation (FDR) is organizing the orange effort, and estimates more than 1,000 of the citrus fruits have been sent as part of “Project Orange Crush, Put the Squeeze on.” The citizen effort — which has its own petition of more than 200,000 signatures, is not affiliated with a campaign.

Meanwhile, Obama also did an interview with the Palm Beach Post, assuring Floridians their delegates will be seated.

And I guess HBO’s movie, Recount, airs on Sunday.

3. marisacat - 23 May 2008

Ob interview with the Orlando Sentinel. Apparently the RNC is using it (Chavez comments) … I snagged it off Geraghty at The Campaign Spot. BTW, The Corner got itself in a froth over the Argus comment.

Maybe they and Kos/whacks can weep together. That would be appropriate.

Send lilies.

4. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 May 2008

no way in hell I could be persuaded to vote for that America uber alles imperialist fraud. Fuck him.

5. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 May 2008
6. marisacat - 23 May 2008

I just cannot see light between them. Maybe I am missing a herd of donkeys and parade of elephants…

7. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 May 2008

NOW this week: Rape in the Military. It updates a story they did last year.

8. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

Someone sent me this link in the morning, and somehow it’s seemed appropriate to the news all day.

Animator vs. Animation.

9. bayprairie - 23 May 2008

Get Out.
by Delaware Dem

It is now obvious that you and your campaign are in fact staying in this race, knowing that you cannot possibly win the nomination, in some sort of hope that something horrible befalls Senator Obama.

15 yard penalty due to technical foul! piling on while rome burns!

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 May 2008

The Uphill Battle By Cindy Sheehan

I could choose not to challenge The Queen of the System and live in my own world at the base of the mountain where my newborn grandson, Jonah, may face the same untimely and needless death as his Uncle Casey if I choose the easy path. It would be easier in the short run, but the cost in the long run is a price that is too steep to pay. The cost for our apathy and laziness will be paid by all of our children and grandchildren.

The best thing at the Summit of my mountain is Hope. I know if The System is challenged and defeated, the healing that begins with the death of The System will proceed and we can all be integrated into a society that cares for what Jesus of Nazareth called the “Least of These” and does not exist to perpetuate itself ad (destructive) nauseum.

When I was climbing out of the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I did not do it alone. I had plenty of help. Some people voluntarily came into the Valley to help rescue me, others were there for the same reason I was: The System tossed them there like garbage. We climbed out together.

I need your help to climb the mountain ahead.

Next to watching my son’s coffin being lowered into his too-early grave, this is the most difficult challenge I have ever faced and I cannot do it, and I must not even be allowed to, do it alone.

If we face it together, bonded by the “fierce urgency of now” and our mutual love for all humankind then the ascent will be smoother and the victory much more sweet. We will achieve.

Please go to http://www.CindyforCongress.org to join us in the struggle against The System.

To reach the Summit of Hope, we need money and volunteers!

11. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

Thanks for the Ross photos, Madman. Great concept for a series. From the links at his home page, it appears he did a project at the Federal Bank at some point. Wonder if that credential helped him with the access to death chambers, Gitmo, etc?

9 – Ol’ Bossy from Delaware loves the imperative more than he loves life itself.

Someone should send him Sirhan Sirhan’s take on the situation.

Yes, we all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated Hillary. We all remember how I killed him in California where I’m serving my sentence. We all know my crime Hillary. We all know I unleashed dark right wing forces on the world when I killed RFK. Nixon, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush Jr…..all took power because of my heinous act, and ran the world into the ground. In addition ,I have cursed my Palestinian people for a thousand years because of it!

Have mercy on my soul!

Seems it’s causing a big brouhaha among Obamas supporters, but to me it’s no biggie. I forgive her.

12. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

Sirhan squared in moderation, I think.

13. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 May 2008
14. NYCO - 23 May 2008

I think Hillary Clinton does, and always did, stand a bigger chance of “buying the big one” than Barack Obama ever would. And it’s not for any particularly noble reason: just that violence against women is a good old American tradition.

Maybe it’s time for women to get out of the democracy business and back to the old ways of influence: as witches, courtesans and virgins, with the occasional Amazon excursion. Better spells, better sex appeal and more holiness; that should leave all the bases covered. There’s a reason why women needed the vote, and that’s because (in the West) the Church(es) left them so powerless that they had just become babymaking machines. It became particularly worse for women after the Reformation, I think.

Anyhow, the first female president of the U.S. will be a Republican, just as it has unfolded in countless lesser municipalities across the country. The enlightened Democratic Party would never let a woman lead, and that’s why Clinton did her end run; and well, she got pretty far with it all things considered. But maybe now it’s time for the professional end-runners to resume their duties.

15. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 May 2008

Anyhow, the first female president of the U.S. will be a Republican

Yup.

16. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

Cindy’s doing Hope and Jesus now too?

Anyhow, the first female president of the U.S. will be a Republican

Yeah, that’s been my speculation for years.

Speakin’ of speculation . . . enjoyed reading about this installation, part of the 125th birthday party for the Brooklyn Bridge.

A window on a different world – or is it?

IT LOOKS like some sort of fantastic device Jules Verne might have dreamed up to transport the Victorians into another dimension.
Emerging from the ground near Tower Bridge in London, the enormous brass and wood “telectroscope” offers a real-time view of New Yorkers going about their daily business.

Across the Atlantic, curious Americans line up to peer into the mirrored do
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me and wave and mouth messages to their English cousins.

The remarkable contraption is based on Victorian technology, using a long-forgotten transatlantic tunnel – or so its “inventor” would have us believe.

Paul St George, a renowned British artist famous for his tiny replicas of artworks, claims the telectroscope was the brainchild of his great-grandfather, Alexander Stanhope St George, an eccentric Victorian engineer who envisaged a giant visual amplifier allowing people to see through a tunnel of immense length from one side of the world to the other.

He claims he found his great-grandfather’s papers in a trunk in his grandmother’s attic and brought the project to fruition using modern technology.

Last night St George, who is also a principal lecturer in multimedia and mathematics at London Metropolitan University, would not confirm how the 6ft-wide telectroscope worked, but admitted it might use the modern-day version of the telegraph – broadband internet cable – to transmit video images via satellite between the two venues at high speed.

Silly BBC story, but with photo/video of same: ‘Tunnel’ links New York to London.

Says he wants to make the next one link Scotland and Australia, but I’d love to see someone fund him for a Baghdad-DC connection instead.

17. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

“Telectroscope” in moderation. Sorry!

18. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

So is Hillary saying she’s really Hubert Humphrey?

19. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

And who’s going to be Richard Daley in all this?

20. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

HCFM – What did St. Paul have to say about it?

(Smiley-face with devil fangs right here.)

21. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

Devil dancers in moderation. Sorry squared!

22. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

HCFM – What did St. Paul have to say about it?

Dunno. Maybe you should ask Cindy Sheehan. She kind of broke the Jesus meter today.

The best thing at the Summit of my mountain is Hope. I know if The System is challenged and defeated, the healing that begins with the death of The System will proceed and we can all be integrated into a society that cares for what Jesus of Nazareth called the “Least of These” and does not exist to perpetuate itself ad (destructive) nauseum.

When I was climbing out of the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I did not do it alone. I had plenty of help. Some people voluntarily came into the Valley to help rescue me, others were there for the same reason I was: The System tossed them there like garbage. We climbed out together.

I need your help to climb the mountain ahead.

23. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 May 2008

Cindy’s doing Hope and Jesus now too?

She always has. She’s been in that leftist/Catholic tradition all along.

I don’t mind if people tell me how their religion motivates them. I object when they tell me how their religion must motivate ME. She walks pretty close to that line, but I’m certainly not going to hold it against her.

24. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

I don’t mind if people tell me how their religion motivates them. I object when they tell me how their religion must motivate ME. She walks pretty close to that line, but I’m certainly not going to hold it against her.

Of course the vast majority of American politicians aren’t religious. But they pretend to be religious in public.

Remember Charles Laughton’s character in Spartacus.

“In public, I believe in all of the gods. In private, I believe in none.”

25. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Olbermann is pissed.

26. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

This year the service was brought outside for the first time, as the town’s church was too small to accommodate the crowds.

The bishop of the state of Miranda, Freddy Fuenmayor, presides over the Mass in front of a throng of worshippers.

The Devils, having danced through town, now kneel below him as a sign of respect.

27. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

Thousands of tourists went to Yare for the celebrations. The state government has embraced the tradition, encouraging its growth.

It’s part of a drive by Venezuela’s socialist government to make more of indigenous history and folk culture.

Apart from many red T-shirts emblazoned with the governor’s name, the event remained fairly free of politics.

28. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Nice African American candidate you’ve got there. It would be a shame if something happened to him.

29. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

The next generation seems ready to continue the traditions.

Boys can become Devils. Girls, on the other hand, like women, have to ask permission for a little dance.

As Corpus Christi Day came to an end, the church bell chimed, and the brotherhood dispersed for another year.

30. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Keith Olbermann walks into Hillary campaign headquarters.

31. bayprairie - 23 May 2008

riding directly atop the rec list at dkos.

Unforgivable
by Keith Olbermann
1090 comments

Get Out.
by Delaware Dem
454 comments

woo. that olbermann guy has platinum cred now.

32. marisacat - 23 May 2008

riding the frat house ladder.

33. bayprairie - 23 May 2008

wonder which one will be the first to let loose with the C-B-W?

34. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Hillary fires a campaign aid.

35. marisacat - 23 May 2008

LOL someone will have to let me know.

Frankly Olberman is sitting there in a pin stripe boa and DD in a pink boa.

Not too much difference.

36. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

33 – Edward R. Murrow! Never!

37. NYCO - 23 May 2008

This whole “assassination” thing makes me really queasy because it’s clear that there are some people out there who seem to want to see their favorite candidate become a martyr. I think some of them denounce the idea but secretly love it at the same time.

Honestly, there are some real flakes out there.

38. liberalcatnip - 23 May 2008

I haven’t watched the KO clip (headache still) yet but from reading his preview at dkos it looks like blowhard wankertude has struck again. So he doesn’t want her – or anybody else, apparently – to say “assassination” out loud? They call that censorship where I come from.

You cannot say this!

One of these days his head really will explode – and it will be on tape.

39. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

Hold the phone . . . Jake Tapper has a Kennedy on the line . . . RFK Jr. Says No One Should Be Offended.

(Hat tip to Sirhan Squared for follow-up!)

40. marisacat - 23 May 2008

well months ago I caught a tape of Obama standing with a very intense little group of supporters.. asking them to pray for him and then he held his hands together as though an A frame covering — and again said to protect him with their prayers.

I did not miss the point he clearly intended to make.

41. liberalcatnip - 23 May 2008

Anyhow, the first female president of the U.S. will be a Republican

Good point. Thatcher in GB, Campbell in Canada – both right-wingers.

42. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Good point. Thatcher in GB, Campbell in Canada – both right-wingers.

Bachelet in Chile. Fernández de Kirchner in Argentina.

Both left wingers.

43. liberalcatnip - 23 May 2008

39. RFK Jr. Says No One Should Be Offended.

Ha! Top that, Obamakins.

I feel my own special comment coming on about all of this.

44. liberalcatnip - 23 May 2008

42. Not gonna play dueling female leaders with you, HcfM. If you missed the point, c’est la vie.

45. NYCO - 23 May 2008

Re women being installed by Republicans… this happens all the time all over America — mayors, county executives, and so on. Why should it be any different nationally? In fact I’d bet it’s more common for women to be allowed to win as Republicans, than as Democrats. It’s safe, it’s nice, they’re contained.

That said, eventually you’ll get Republican women who forget the script and rebel.

Hair Club: Yes, and in the Southern Hemisphere everyone lives upside down and the toilets flush backwards. Your point?

46. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

42 – And just think. . . both were voted in by hard-working ethnic Americans!

47. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Yes, and in the Southern Hemisphere everyone lives upside down and the toilets flush backwards. Your point?

Latin women are smarter than Anglo Saxon women?

48. NYCO - 23 May 2008

No, maybe the Latin left is actually a real left? (unlike the Western “left”?)

49. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

I do know Bachelet is way smarter than Hillary. Speaks better English too.

But I don’t think even in the USA a woman has to be a reactionary to get elected.

Look at Washington State.

50. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

What’s the matter, HC ? Did you want Sheehan to phone your family beforehand so they could add their creative touches to her script, or what ?

[rolleyes]

51. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Did you want Sheehan to phone your family beforehand so they could add their creative touches to her script, or what ?

You know, I’ve been thinking. If Paul would be the perfect organizer for the Obama campaign, who would be the perfect organizer for the Nader campaign.

Then it came to me.

Simeon Stylites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_Stylites

52. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Simeon Stylites in spam.

53. NYCO - 23 May 2008

HC, nobody said a woman has to be a reactionary to get elected; I just said they seem to have more success with the Republican party. Unless you think all Republicans are reactionaries, I don’t understand what you mean.

54. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

But I don’t think even in the USA a woman has to be a reactionary to get elected.

HC, your logic suffers at high speeds.

55. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

I just said they seem to have more success with the Republican party.

Is that really true?

I can think of Ann Richards and Pelosi.

Pelosi’s the most powerful woman in American history, isn’t she?

56. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Ann Richards
Pelosi
Diane Feinstein
Barbara Boxer
Patti Murray
Maria Cantwell

57. liberalcatnip - 23 May 2008

I don’t see “president” behind any of those names.

58. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

I guess Samantha Power could have followed Condi as Secretary of State. Too bad she told the truth.

59. NYCO - 23 May 2008

Nevertheless, my hunch is that the Democratic party will never let a strong woman through to the top (or “top” since the presidency increasingly has been trashed as an office). There’s a reason why Hillary Clinton had to Evita her way to wherever she is now; it’s because Democratic women have been passed over for decades after they should have been achieving parity in the party’s upper echelons. Clinton is just an end product of that, a creature of that.

60. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Clinton is just an end product of that, a creature of that.

You REALLY don’t think it has ANYTHING to do with the fact that she voted to execute a million Iraqis?

61. marisacat - 23 May 2008

25 years since the Dems picked a womn for the VP spot. Never a black. Not even considered.

Rise just so high.

62. NYCO - 23 May 2008

Samantha Power didn’t understand the irony of her own words. This is a woman who made her fame by talking about genocide, particularly the Rwandan genocide, where they called their political enemies (and victims) cockroaches. Power had no business calling any political adversary a similarly dehumanizing playground name. What the fuck was she thinking?

Or, she did understand what she’d done and that’s why she resigned. I hope. For her sake. Not that many of Obama’s followers apparently understand why it was so wrong for her to say that.

63. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Power had no business calling any political adversary a similarly dehumanizing playground name. What the fuck was she thinking?

So if Godzilla calls Magalon a monster, does that mean it’s wrong?

64. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

Can Obama say “defund” or “ceasefire” without stammering ?

Holy Hell. All that Right-wing saber rattling in his most recent speech and you’re still clutching at that ever-shrinking bundle of straws, HC ?

[shakes head]

As for HRC, I haven’t spent more than two minutes in a so-called “feminist” blog in the last year or so, and I’m sure as Hell not going to look at the carnage now.

Yeah, like Hillary was really going to loft you on her shoulders and lead you to a promised land of cheap birth control, safe abortions, and generous family leave, “Sisters.”

[snerk] What-the-fuck-ever.

65. NYCO - 23 May 2008

HC, I’m talking about her entire career. People hate her because she’s a political wife who, well, didn’t bake cookies. Was it the right way for her to climb? I couldn’t tell you. She gained fans and foes for doing it that way (I’m talking, among other political women). But if she has any fans at all, it’s probably among long serving Dem women who got sick of waiting their turn. That seems like a failure; I’m just saying Clinton as a political force is an end product of that exasperation.

66. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Right-wing saber rattling in his most recent speech and you’re still clutching at that ever-shrinking bundle of straws, HC ?

You mean Chavez?

Yeah, Kerry did the same thing in 2004. But Obama’s attitude seems to be “yeah he sucks but let’s negotiate” as opposed to “yeah he sucks but let’s bomb him.”

Not much but something I guess.

67. NYCO - 23 May 2008

HC, I don’t know: If Tutsi were really cockroaches (so say the Hutu) was it so wrong for them to say so on RTLM?

68. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

People hate her because she’s a political wife who, well, didn’t bake cookies.

Dunno. Personally I just hate the Clintons, male and female.

Whos’ a female, Jewish, pro-Israel hawk Obama can chose for his VP.

Feinstein?

I’ve got no problem with that.

Boxer. Even better. She voted no on the Iraq resolution.

69. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

“Not Much But Something.”

It rings, it sings, it’ll look great in the ads and on lawn signs.

Watch me brush away a tear now.

70. NYCO - 23 May 2008

Dunno. Personally I just hate the Clintons, male and female.

Compelling. And honest. Thanks.

71. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

If Tutsi were really cockroaches (so say the Hutu) was it so wrong for them to say so on RTLM?

Ever read The Taylor Report?

Canadian radio show. Sort of a left wing alternative view on Rwanda.

Who REALLY brought down that plane and assassinated the president?

72. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Compelling. And honest. Thanks.

Bushes and Clintons. Bleh.

73. NYCO - 23 May 2008

Daleys. Bleh.

74. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

As for Obama, yeah I wish that 40 million dollas flushed into campaign ads would have gone to alternative media or anti-war groups.

But come on, he’s not the anti-christ. He’s another centrist Dem politician.

And getting past the African American president milestone might not be a bad idea.

75. marisacat - 23 May 2008

LOL he’s not going ot pick DIFi or Boxer.

He will pick a white male who can help with a big swing state. IMO.

76. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

He will pick a white male who can help with a big swing state. IMO.

We all know how that worked out with Edwards.

77. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Why do people even believe a VP candidate matters?

Did Dan Quayle hurt Bush?

78. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

We also know how well the donkey suppressing Nader voters worked for sweeping Kerry to victory, and yet in Chicago a few months ago the machine still kept ballots from Green voters.

These people don’t learn from their mistakes because they’re not mistakes, to them.

79. marisacat - 23 May 2008

Do you have to be stupid? Or do you work at it? I think you work at it as a hobby.

Edwards was a dud then and a dud now.

He could not carry his state nor even his home district.

He wasn’t even an accomplished retail pol, he had no machine. He could deliver NOTHING He did not even bother to aggressively campaign.

That does not fit: “white male who can help with a big swing state”.

80. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

We also know how well the donkey suppressing Nader voters worked for sweeping Kerry to victory, and yet in Chicago a few months ago the machine still kept ballots from Green voters.

You mistake me. I WANT to see a strong third party candidate from the left. My problem with Nader isn’t that he’d get too many votes. It’s that he’s not campaigning. I liked his article on Google but come on, he’s not running a real campaign.

81. NYCO - 23 May 2008

Who REALLY brought down that plane and assassinated the president?

That’s irrelevant to the fact that Hutu were inciting hatred against Tutsi for years before the plane ever crashed. If the president hadn’t died they would have come up with another pretext. The Tutsi genocide was planned in advance for a long time and the Tutsi were being called cockroaches for a long time. It was all part of softening up the Hutu rank and file for picking up their machetes when the time came.

It’s called “coarsening the discourse” and Samantha Power was playing right into the process. She should have known better.

Genocidal craziness or other destructive politically motivated violence has a funny way of finding an excuse to happen. It’s almost a self-fulfilling process. Just before all hell breaks loose, it’s as if both “sides” (I assume you are referring to the Tutsi rebels with your insinuation above) act in concert in a way that ultimately produces violence (or, if not violence, increased disorder).

And sadly you will see this play out here, in the last Democratic primary ever.

82. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

That does not fit: “white male who can help with a big swing state”.

Well I’m not a multimillionare Senator/Vietnam Vet who got picked as the Democratic nominee.

So I can’t quite understand why Kerry picked him if it wasn’t about picking up a state in the south or two.

83. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

That’s irrelevant to the fact that Hutu were inciting hatred against Tutsi for years before the plane ever crashed.

Read this book.

http://www.taylor-report.com/Rwanda_1994/

84. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

That’s not the point, HC. The point is that Democrats suppress votes on the Left because they are SCARED SHITLESS of a real fight from their Left flank. They have their cozy little niche market keeping people like you bound and prostrate and they will NEVER share power with anyone but their god friends across the aisle unless a critical mass of people develops the will to starve them.

I gave you a link to Ballot Access News not long ago. One of these days you should spend an hour roaming around there, when you can take a break from pitching Bible Studies at the crowd here.

This is about so much more than Nader, which you’d realize if you’d just pull your head out for a few minutes.

85. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

Good friends. God friends.

Guess it works either way, no ? :p

86. NYCO - 23 May 2008

HC, thanks, but not relevant to the plain fact that the word “cockroach” was being used to dehumanize a political enemy and that Samantha Power gleefully played that same sort of game. It doesn’t matter who was behind what; we’re talking about tactics that are used to create situations where people willingly slaughter their neighbors.

87. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

They have their cozy little niche market keeping people like you bound and prostrate and they will NEVER share power with anyone but their god friends across the aisle unless a critical mass of people develops the will to starve them.

And HOW is this going to happen?

Nader was the story in 2000. The story in 2008 would be Obama getting robbed of the nomination and runnign as a third party candidate.

Or it would have been Jesse Jackson breaking away from the Dems in 1988 and running as an independent.

Until African Americans are willling to break away from the Dems, there won’t be a credible third party.

And how much African American support did Nader have, even in 2000?

88. NYCO - 23 May 2008

and, thanks, but I don’t have time to read that book right now, could you summarize the main points?

(what is it with Obama supporters always handing you a book that explains everything?)

89. marisacat - 23 May 2008

This is pretty much the end for me… I am sick of your chapter and verse games. And games they are.

I ahve no idea why Edwards was selected. If one looks at the Newsweek spread taken at the Heinz PA property, it sure gets shakey.

He was never selected to deliver his state as it was known at the onset he could not. Perhaps you missed that he was too chicken to endorse before NC voted.

90. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

HC, thanks, but not relevant to the plain fact that the word “cockroach” was being used to dehumanize a political enemy and that Samantha Power gleefully played that same sort of game.

I’m not familiar with the Power reference you’re referencing and I’m not really a fan.

I was merely pointing out that you would have had two consecutive female secretaries of state and that Power got ditched for a bullshit reason.

91. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

and, thanks, but I don’t have time to read that book right now, could you summarize the main points?

The USA and the British supported the Rwandan Patriotic Front and organized the assassination of the President of Rwanda.

Things got out of hand, WAY out of hand, but, in the end, they got what they wanted.

92. liberalcatnip - 23 May 2008

87. And HOW is this going to happen?

Stop voting for the big 2 and work for a third party. Don’t sit back and wait for the AA community or anybody else to do it for you.

93. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

Until African Americans are willling to break away from the Dems, there won’t be a credible third party.

Have you ever managed to get through five minutes without moving a dozen goal posts ?

I can’t do anything to make African Americans desert the DP, other than try to support candidates that I think would improve the country, state, municipality, what have you. And in fact, it wouldn’t have to be a block of bolter composed solely of any group comprised of POC. A critical percentage is what it takes, starting at the local level and building from there.

But keep hiding behind Nader as if he was the be-all and end-all of possibilities, because I realize how scary and lonely it is outside the fold. Believe me I know, but I’m still not going back.

94. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Stop voting for the big 2 and work for a third party.

I did the first two presidential elections I voted in.

It will still be nice if Nader had a few non white supporters though.

95. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

He can’t work for it, catnip. donkeytale and the others will point at him and laugh. Oh, and voting for McKinney instead of Obama would be racist. Or something.

96. NYCO - 23 May 2008

’m not familiar with the Power reference you’re referencing

Um, the fact that she called a political opponent a “Monster.”

Which is what this conversation started with.

97. liberalcatnip - 23 May 2008

Sometimes, I don’t mind banging my head against the wall if it’s for a good cause. I think I’ll take a pass tonite.

98. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

I can’t do anything to make African Americans desert the DP, other than try to support candidates that I think would improve the country, state, municipality, what have you.

Well tell me. I live in NJ 10. The Republicans haven’t run a candidate in my district since before I was born. A third party wouldn’t even be a spoiler.

But NO third party candidate could even get on the ballot because it’s a majority minority district. There’s just NO popular support for it. Not even Amiri Baraka’s son will run as a third party candidate.

I think the Green candidate got like 30 votes last election.

99. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Um, the fact that she called a political opponent a “Monster.”

You’ve got to be kidding.

100. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

Well, HC, I guess you’d better stick your head back in that Bible and pray then. We all know that’s how change happens;MLK, Eugene Debs, and the like. All of them just stayed at home on their knees praying, going along to get along, etc. Obviously that’s the way to go.

If you’d lived in WA in the last election, you actually could have voted for Dixon when he ran against Cantwell on the Green ticket. I saw his homepage and unless you want to argue that they were all hired actors, he seemed to have had many fans who weren’t White. Imagine.

But, I’m guessing you quickly would have found a reason to reject him and snuggle up safely with Cantwell again.

Gevalt. Tell me something I DON’T know, for once.

101. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

But, I’m guessing you quickly would have found a reason to reject him and snuggle up safely with Cantwell again.

NO. I’m saying a third party movement without working class or black support is not going to be credible, period.

And I’m asking you. How do you get black and working class support for a third party?

Have you even thought about this?

102. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 May 2008

They have their cozy little niche market keeping people like you bound and prostrate and they will NEVER share power with anyone but their god friends across the aisle unless a critical mass of people develops the will to starve them.

Yup. They are running a protection racket.

Well tell me. I live in NJ 10. The Republicans haven’t run a candidate in my district since before I was born. A third party wouldn’t even be a spoiler.

Are you stupid or obtuse? The point is a LEFTIST OPPOSITION. Why does it always devolve back to PARTIES with you? The parties are instruments of control, ways of cutting off debate. The donks don’t want debate … they want the controlled scam.

Really, are you just really dumb, or just playing games b/c you really do understand this? Hell, why are we all wasting time w/ him? Just a variation on the Del Dem routine.

103. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

Why don’t you fuck off with your patronizing bullshit and read some fucking pages by POC involved in political reform, you pain in the ass.

Google “Aaron Dixon.” Or research proportional representation. Or visit the California Greening blog, or– oh, fuck it.

I’m so done with your worthless ass.

104. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

That wasn’t directed at you, Madman. Just in case it was hard to tell.

Holy Fuck. Like I needed another reason to be embarrassed to be from NJ. [shakes head]

catnip, I’ll take that cheesecake now. Top it with Bailey’s and Amaretto and a blowtorch so I can throw myself on it and end this torment once and for all.

105. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

The point is a LEFTIST OPPOSITION.

There is a “leftist opposition” in my distict, a real one, not some white NPR listeners who vote for Nader.

And there’s no chance they’ll go third party.

Because it’s a majority minority district and they don’t vote third party.

Remember “class” and “race”, those two dirty little factors that really mean something in American politics?

I guess not.

But I’m not going to be able to sway the majority of African Americans to leave the Dems. That MIGHT happen if Hillary takes the nomination from Obama.

But I doubt you’ve even discussed this with anybody.

106. liberalcatnip - 23 May 2008

100. Have you even thought about this?

Now there’s a slap in the face if I ever saw one.

Clue: stop being an asshole. It doesn’t enhance your conversation skills.

107. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 May 2008

oh no, I could tell. No prob.

Like I needed another reason to be embarrassed to be from NJ.

Like NJ isn’t reason enough all on its own.

108. bayprairie - 23 May 2008

all he’s doing in these threads is playing verbal pingpong with the express intention of irritating. it doesn’t matter what one says, he’ll say the opposite. red, NO GREEN, blue NO YELLOW. he’s not looking for answers. he already has them all.

best not to feed the obsession. its past being a discussion anyway.

109. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 May 2008

Because it’s a majority minority district and they don’t vote third party.

Okay Kipling. Thanks for telling us how the wogs think.

110. marisacat - 23 May 2008

HA!

A TU sent me this from the hidden files… from DD’s imperial diary:

i bow before your (0+ / 6-)

Hidden by:
Delaware Dem, oslo, Cat Servant, R Rhino from CT4, Hope08, badger1968

great and powerful dick

by bumblebeeflorida on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:23:29 PM CDT

And from the Olberman Slobberification Diary…

How far is Keith’s tongue up Obmaa’s ass... (0+ / 10-)

Hidden by:
barnowl, Ramar, nicolemm, oslo, badlands, boji, Tamifah, Jeff Y, HoosierDeb, TribeApologist

I’d say about three feet.

by mansman on Fri May 23, 2008 at 09:53:20 PM CDT

Full time job hiding stuff….

111. Hair Club for Men - 23 May 2008

Like NJ isn’t reason enough all on its own.

Whatever. NJ 10 is a majority black district. It’s also pretty blue collar. Not too many Nader voters here. PLENTY of left wing voters.

See the problem?

Jeez. You play this snippy Naderite routine on me and I just scratch my head. Try it on an African Amerian voter and you’ll just get tuned out altogether.

Gilliard was right about Nader voters. And on that note, I’m done with you.

Goodnight.

112. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

Madman, for the win.

I have to go read sit on my Shaker furniture in my meticulously refurbished Craftsman bungalow and go over my trust fund prospectus and listen to NPR now. Oh, and has anyone seen my bound copy of the Land’s End catalogue ?

113. liberalcatnip - 23 May 2008

One torched cheesecake coming right up.

114. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

Sorry, bayprairie. But I’m impressed that catnip apparently managed to vote for Nader. That must be some killer fake ID she was toting across the border that time.

115. liberalcatnip - 23 May 2008

And on that note, I’m done with you.

Goodnight.

Begone!

(I love that word.)

116. liberalcatnip - 23 May 2008

113. Sssshhhh…

117. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 May 2008

Gilliard was right about Nader voters.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

118. liberalcatnip - 23 May 2008

Full time job hiding stuff….

lol

What will the neighbours think?!

119. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

Oh, Madman. Next you’ll scoff when I tell you that Eric Alterman and Todd Gitlin are actually African Americans.

120. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 May 2008

And on that note, I’m done with you.

Promise, oh great white hunter? Gonna take your pith helmet and monicle and go back to the safe environs of pfft?

119 – scoff? MOI?!?!

I’m all about the wide-eyed wonder and credulity of being a good ‘merikan.

121. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

Land’s End catalogue? Amaretto?

Hey – that reminds me . . .I’m still waiting for sangria, from the last thread!

And on the topic of blowtorches . . . roll over, Tupperware, and tell the Avon Lady the news.

122. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

Me, too, Madman. But at least we’re not VAMPIRE SPHINCTERS !! As made famous by an old friend of mine who prefers anonymity for now:

No one is going to hand you a viable third party. You can work to make a third party viable, if you want to. If you vote for someone with a track record of fucking you over, you have all the moral authority of a drunkard bitching at the liquor store owner, which is why people ridicule you. Playing stupid at great length isn’t working. Try something else. Have a nice day.

123. ms_xeno - 23 May 2008

IB, I took your advice and left the pitcher with bayprairie, in hopes that she’ll favor us with some music later on. I’ve about had my fill of broken records, that’s for sure.

Meanwhile, maybe a little Afghan dutar and (I think) squeeze box music would tide me over. Enjoy, if you wanna’.

124. Intermittent Bystander - 23 May 2008

Nice! Thanks.

That thing looks like a converted briefcase, don’t it? bay and lucid both should check it out.

125. CSTAR - 23 May 2008

Checkbook diplomacy? Is that supposed to be bad?

126. marisacat - 23 May 2008

Just a pic……….

LINK

…………. 8)

127. marisacat - 23 May 2008

so.. now that Gilliard is dead he likes him?

LOL.

128. bayprairie - 24 May 2008

free reeds in spam


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