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Bamboozled in the boondoggle. 20 November 2008

Posted by marisacat in California / Pacific Coast, DC Politics, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.
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A lot at the Port of Long Beach may be used to park cars. Jamie Rector for The New York Times

For a while today, this was the most emailed article at the NYT…

And for the first time, Mercedes-Benz, Toyota, and Nissan have each asked to lease space from the port for these orphan vehicles. They are turning dozens of acres of the nation’s second-largest container port into a parking lot, creating a vivid picture of a paralyzed auto business and an economy in peril.

“This is one way to look at the economy,” Art Wong, a spokesman for the port, said of the cars. “And it scares you to death.”

Just listening to Shelby and Barney Frank go at it (on Charle R).  The Democrats have certainly looked like fools the past few weeks.. all of them have.  I notice nobody is whining about “call it a Rescue!” anymore.  It is just a big fat fucking boondoggle of a failed Bail Out.  Bleeding massively.

Kurt Golledge, 48, was one of just two truckers loading his green, 75-foot-long hauler with cars last week. Mr. Golledge said eight of his colleagues were laid off this month because Toyota dealers did not want more deliveries.

“I was dropping cars in Henderson, Nev., about a month ago and the dealer told me: ‘Take ’em somewhere else and dump ’em,’ ” said Mr. Golledge, who works for a company called Allied Systems. “All the dealers are telling us the same thing.”

Auto dealers typically place orders with manufacturers months in advance, but they can modify their orders to receive fewer vehicles.

“The ships keep coming, but there’s nowhere for the cars to go,” Mr. Golledge said. He said he believed the vehicles he was loading would be his last before he was laid off, and he was already considering where he might find a new job.

Then, this dicey tidbit:

The mothballing of cars is nothing new for Detroit, where thousands of unwanted American-made cars have been parked over the last two years at Michigan’s state fairground and in lots at its airports.

The report also informs that China does not want our garbage any more… not much demand for the items they produced from the recyclables.  Guess what?  Loads of trash are still getting dropped at the transit sites, the stations before being shipped to China.  And there they sit.

Not a problem! About to get it ALL cleaned up in a jiffy… and then on to ending wars (Iraq), winning wars (Afghanistan, the regional bleed – and any new ones!) and delivering on some boondoggle of health care (just think! Czar Daschle *, Liberal Lion Kennedy and Baucus, I am so excited they will be working on it!).  Not to worry! Immigration, when Ob&co get to it, will be a snap of the fingers!  Gitmo? Consider it shut!  Not a problem.  Preventive detention, a little sticky, but Not To Worry!

I will keep breathing.

* At issue is Mr. Daschle’s work since leaving the Senate four years ago as a board member of the Mayo Clinic and a highly paid adviser to health care clients at the law and lobbying firm Alston & Bird.

In a detailed list of campaign promises, Mr. Obama pledged that “no political appointees in an Obama administration will be permitted to work on regulations or contracts directly and substantially related to their prior employer for two years.”

Although Mr. Daschle’s work might not preclude his appointment, it could raise the possibility that the administration could require him to recuse himself from any matter related to either the Mayo Clinic or some of the clients he advised at Alston & Bird — a potentially broad swath of the health secretary’s portfolio.

Obama promised, in an a ever cascading shift of words that finally landed, iirc, at “no federal lobbyists will be running my WH” (the version above is just recently extruded from the Ob camp).

Anyone seen a Czar around?  What do they do?  Run things?

Although not a registered lobbyist, Mr. Daschle, a South Dakota Democrat who was party leader in the Senate, provides strategic advice to the firm’s clients about how to influence government policy or actions. The firm’s Web site declares,

“Our health care legislative and policy team has the significant advantage of including two former U.S. Senate majority leaders — Senators Bob Dole and Tom Daschle — both resident in our Washington office and champions of many health care issues in their Senate Finance Committee and leadership roles.”

Champions.

As examples of the firm’s achievements the Web site lists matters involving Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements, approvals of federally regulated drugs and medical products, fraud investigations, medical waste disposal, privacy and other compliance issues. [could he be more involved?  do you think?  --Mcat]

The Mayo Clinic, where Mr. Daschle is on the board, is itself a major health care provider, research institution, and recipient of grants from the National Institutes of Health.

Mr. Daschle’s wife, Linda Daschle, is a prominent lobbyist for aerospace and military concerns. She does not, however, represent any health care clients. Nor did Mr. Obama make specific campaign promises related to the occupation of a spouse.

If Mr. Daschle is required to recuse himself from certain areas involving his former clients or corporate affiliations, other Obama campaign pledges might require the administration to disclose the areas of recusal.

Be interesting to see how soon the Obs whine. Legalistic rewording soon to come down the chute…

I remember reading, soon after he shot himself, that Vince Foster simply could not cope with reading quite specific criticism of himself in what had been the most vaunted publication in his world, the WSJ.  I remember being bored and irritated when I read that….  These chumps WANT to come to Washington, stay in Washington, they want to lead the whirled, they want the pay off and the groveling…  As awe filled and horror filled (let’s not forget petty back biting, as well) leading the nation and leading the world is, it’s also the Big Leagues.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

UPDATE, 2:34 AM

Betsy Aron on ABC World News Overnight just said that Wall St is “losing faith in Washington’s ability to find the way out of this mess”.

Nothing to add to that!

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Comments»

1. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2008

Wall St is “losing faith in Washington’s ability to find the way out of this mess”.

You know you’re in serious trouble when the mobsters start worrying about the cops they’ve been paying off.

2. marisacat - 20 November 2008

I thought it was hilarious. She said it with a perfectly straight face too.

3. aemd - 20 November 2008

Oil falls below $50 a barrel.

Washington ain’t gonna fix this mess. Jebus, too many of them think all they got is a sub-prime problem. All they think they gotta do is stop the foreclosures and boom, it’s good times again. Someday those idiots will figure out they’ve been confusing a symptom for the cause.

4. marisacat - 20 November 2008

Yes well.. we all know that B16 opposes torture. Sure. Really. And we know absolutely he opposes women.

* Vatican Threatens to Excommunicate Catholic Priest for Supporting Ordination of Women into Priesthood *

We speak with Roy Bourgeois, a Maryknoll priest. He took part in a ceremony this summer to ordain a member of the group called Roman Catholic Womenpriests. For the past two decades, he has organized the annual protest against the US Army’s School of the Americas at Fort Benning, Georgia.

LINK

Wandering around in Whispers in the Loggia the other night, I noticed that the blogger there, a young Philadelphian Catholic called Rocco, refers to Ratz as “Papa Bear”. Took me a while to figure out who he was referring to… AND he reports that around Rome Ratz is referred to as “His Fluffiness”.

But, yes, let’s excommunicate the priest. And of course the Maryknoll know absolutely and completely what our school for torture did to S and C America.

5. marisacat - 20 November 2008

3

Two oil wells in every pot!

6. marisacat - 20 November 2008

keeping the theme going, IOZ on il papa and just who is and who is not a child predator. Great pic!

Huzzah.

Another from IOZ that i had planned to use before i landed on, LOL, the traffic news update of Massive Multi-Car Pile Up at Long Beach, News at 11!…

[T]o believe it, you have to conceptualize the Democrats as being historically something like the party of labor interests, the Republicans as being historically something like the party of business interests, and the crazy minority ID-politics types and the oogedy-boogedy faith-healing millenarian types being respectively the infestations that ruined them. Whereas in reality you have two corporate imperialist factions who differ on how best to keep hoi polloi in line, with the Democrats dangling the carrot of redistributive economic justice and the Republicans offering the illusion of social and moral harmony. Republicans never actually deliver a fag-free, abortionless, desexualized, post-Hollywood culture, and Democrats never do much for the downtrodden, but we live in an era of marketing, whatever, forever and ever, shantih, amen. ::snipsnappy!::

7. marisacat - 20 November 2008

Talk Left on Holder as Drug War warrior. Good thread too… I am part way thru

8. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2008

6 – Get that poor girl away from that creepy old man!

oh, and RFLMAO!!!!

Inkberrow said…

Amen, IOZ—since these residential limitations for sex offenders can’t hope to alleviate more than part of the problem—that of the neighborhood groomer-predator—they should be scrapped altogether. By the same powerful logic we can safely dispense with HeadStart, food banks, and recycling efforts as well.

IOZ said…

Well, we can safely dispense with Head Start, food banks, and recycling. You may have made a wrong turn somewhere. To get to Hullabaloo, you’re going to want to go down three lights, hang a right, hand a left, go past the elementary school, click your heels together three times, and loiter suspiciously beside a playground.

Hahahahahahahahahaha

9. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2008

From the talk left link:

“The truth of the matter is that marijuana is a significant problem for the city,” said Mr. Holder in an interview. “Crack cocaine still drives most of the violence in this city, but marijuana violence is increasing. We need to nip it in the bud.”

MARIJUANA VIOLENCE?!?!

Who ARE these people? I guess all those shootouts during prohibition were RUM VIOLENCE.

moron.

10. marisacat - 20 November 2008

and use Toto as a diversion as you take that circuitous path…
;)

11. marisacat - 20 November 2008

Reefer Madness!

yeah we got ourselves a bunch of law ‘n order enforcers.

FWIW business woman and top fundraiser (iirc she was a Finance Chair) Pritzker dropped. She herself sent an email to Sweet of the Sun-Times.

12. NYCO - 20 November 2008

What if they threw a music festival and nobody came?

Seriously — NOBODY?

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/11/18/1118smmusicfest.html

Mike Morgan’s band, Flounders Without Eyes, played at 6 p.m. Friday to a crowd of exactly zero.

13. marisacat - 20 November 2008

wow… kind of stunning. The day the music died, for real, in one spot anyway…

14. NYCO - 20 November 2008

13. I think it was bad promotion more than the economy, though.

This other story made me laugh:

Catrina Allan, owner of Children of the Kettle Corn said she lost $3,000 this weekend.

Children of the Kettle Corn! hee.

That’s not even bad compared to Ryon Weber’s pizza stand. Weber said he had to drive his business from California, and lost close to $10,000 in the process.

Why would someone drive from California to Texas to sell pizza? Yeesh.

15. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2008

More layoffs at Focus on the Family

Focus on the Family is poised to announce major layoffs to its Colorado Springs-based ministry and media empire today. The cutbacks come just weeks after the group pumped more than half a million dollars into the successful effort to pass a gay-marriage ban in California.

Critics are holding up the layoffs, which come just two months after the organization’s last round of dismissals, as a sad commentary on the true priorities of the ministry.

“If I were their membership I would be appalled,” said Mark Lewis, a longtime Colorado Springs activist who helped organize a Proposition 8 protest in Colorado Springs on Saturday. “That [Focus on the Family] would spend any money on anything that’s obviously going to get blocked in the courts is just sad. [Prop. 8] is guaranteed to lose, in the long run it doesn’t have a chance — it’s just a waste of money.”

In all, Focus pumped $539,000 in cash and another $83,000 worth of non-monetary support into the measure to overturn a California Supreme Court ruling that allowed gays and lesbians to marry in that state. The group was the seventh-largest donor to the effort in the country. The cash contributions are equal to the salaries of 19 Coloradans earning the 2008 per capita income of $29,133.

In addition Elsa Prince, the auto parts heiress and longtime funder of conservative social causes who sits on the Focus on the Family board, contributed another $450,000 to Prop. 8.

“They should do more with their half-million dollars than spending it to collect signatures to take the rights away from a class of people,” said Fred Karger, the founder of the anti-Prop 8 group Californians Against Hate. “I think it’s wrong and it’s hurtful to so many Americans.”

16. marisacat - 20 November 2008

I think prop 8 has a chance of going all the way to the SCOTUS

part of the issue that has arisen is whether Prop 8 was an amendment, capable of passing by simple majority or a revision to the state const… in which case it must garner 2/3.

One report today said the state SC has never really tied down what is an amendment and what is a revision. So, it could go all the way, depending.

17. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2008

I’ve always loved No Depression magazine for their interesting takes on the music I love. Like this …:

On an album full of guest stars (Charlie Louvin, Matthew Sweet, Susanna Hoffs) and stellar band performances, “Plan To Marry” is the only song performed solely by Williams, just voice and acoustic guitar. She opens by painting this picture: “When leaders can’t be trusted/Our heroes have let us down/And innocence lies rusted/And frozen beneath the ground.” That grim litany – a stark contrast to the optimism pervading Little Honey – escalates over another three verses, before she finally asks, in a weary tone, “Why do we marry?”

I have raised this exact question many times. And not just because, as a gay man, I am currently prohibited from marrying the person I love in all but two states in this country. But also because, for many years, I honestly saw little to no appeal in wedlock.

snip

And then, in my mid-30s, I fell for a guy who made me think otherwise. His HIV+ status meant our resolve to soldier on through sickness and health, for richer or poorer, would be well-tested over the next six-plus years. And now that it has been, I want the other privileges that come with marriage. Straight couples are allowed to tie the knot before confronting such rigors. Why are my partner and I prohibited from enjoying the same legal rights and freedoms after we’ve proven, time and again, the depth of our commitment?

Why do we marry? Because, as Lucinda concludes, “love is a mighty sword…and we are the conquerors.” Marriage is a shared badge of honor. It shows our peers and neighbors that we will work hard, together, to make our lives – and the lives of all around us – better. My parents celebrate their 50th anniversary next year, and after all I have witnessed them go through, I appreciate that a couple united in matrimony is greater than the sum of its individual parts.

When I first heard “Plan To Marry”, late this past summer, same-sex marriage was legal in California. There is nothing gender-specific in Lucinda’s lyrics, and in my review of Little Honey for GLBT news magazine The Advocate, I concluded, “Expect to hear this modest masterpiece as a first dance at weddings – gay and straight alike – for years to come.”

Then, on November 4, California voters passed Proposition 8, the same that day Florida, Arizona and Arkansas also approved anti-gay legislation.

Understand that I am a patient man. It took years for me to appreciate the value of marriage, and I respect that progress in granting all people the right to it may be slow in coming. But stripping citizens of a civil right they already enjoy is unacceptable. How dare someone else tell my friends in Los Angeles and San Francisco that their newly-minted union may be invalid? Or tell the ones who have a ceremony pending that instead of “save the date” cards, they now have to send out cancellation notices?

There is a short clip of part of the song at the link.

18. marisacat - 20 November 2008

LOL Written in the sand before high tide

Retired Four-Stars Leading Candidates for Obama’s National Security Team

November 20, 2008 6:22 PM

FROM JAKE TAPPER AND MARTHA RADDATZ:

Democratic sources tell ABC News that President-elect Obama appears to be turning to two retired four-stars for his National Security Adviser and his Director of National Intelligence.

Marine Gen. James L. Jones (Ret.), the former head of NATO and U.S. forces in Europe, has emerged as the leading candidate to serve as the National Security Adviser for President-elect Obama.

Admiral Dennis C. Blair (Ret.), former Commander-in-Chief of U.S. Pacific Command and a 6th-generation naval officer, has emerged as the top candidate to be President-elect Obama’s Director of National Intelligence. He recently met in Chicago with the president-elect.

Neither job has been officially offered or accepted, and the Obama Transition Team would not confirm or deny either man’s front-runner status.
::snap!::

19. marisacat - 20 November 2008

Gee, even Sully can read. Sometimes:

“And Obama wants an apologist for this [Gitmo] – John Brennan – at CIA? Has he lost his mind?”

20. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2008

How Detroit Drove Into a Ditch

In all this lies a tale of hubris, missed opportunities, disastrous decisions and flawed leadership of almost biblical proportions. In fact, for the last 30 years Detroit has gone astray, repented, gone astray and repented again in a cycle not unlike the Israelites in the Book of Exodus.

It wasn’t that American auto executives were always malicious and stupid while the Japanese were always enlightened and smart. Japanese car companies have made plenty of mistakes, most recently Toyota’s ill-timed move into full-sized pickup trucks and SUVs. But just as America didn’t understand the depth of ethnic and religious divisions in Iraq, Detroit failed to grasp — or at least to address — the fundamental nature of its Japanese competition. Japan’s car companies, and more recently the Germans and Koreans, gained a competitive advantage largely by forging an alliance with American workers.

Detroit, meanwhile, has remained mired in mutual mistrust with the United Auto Workers union. While the suspicion has abated somewhat in recent years, it never has disappeared — which is why Detroit’s factories remain vastly more cumbersome to manage than the factories of foreign car companies in the U.S.

Wow, an article in the Journal that doesn’t blame the workers. Who’d a thunk it?

For all the Pinto’s infamy, perhaps no car better captured America’s decade-long haplessness than the pug-ugly AMC Gremlin, which debuted in 1970 and died — mercifully — in 1980. The Gremlin’s shape, fittingly, was first sketched out by an American Motors designer on the back of a Northwest Airlines air-sickness bag. On Aug. 20, 1979, 18-year-old Brad Alty, fresh out of high school in Mechanicsburg, Ohio, was driving his Gremlin to work when the car broke down. He was two-and-a-half hours late to his first day on the job at a new motorcycle factory that Honda Motor was opening in central Ohio.

For the next few weeks, Mr. Alty and his 63 co-workers did little but sweep floors and paint them with yellow lines. Then they started building three to five motorcycles a day. And at the end of each day they would disassemble each bike, piece by piece, to evaluate the workmanship. Mr. Alty hated it, and he kept getting grief from his older brother for working for a Japanese company. “I thought I had made a mistake by going to work there,” he recalled recently. “It was like, ‘What the heck am I doing here?’ ”

But Mr. Alty stuck with it, and Honda stuck with him. Honda’s real goal was to build cars in America, but the motorcycle plant allowed it to test the mettle of American workers for a modest investment. The workers passed the test. Honda started building Accords in Ohio in November 1982. Ironically, some U.S. Honda dealers actually protested that they wanted to sell only Accords made in Japan. But the quality of the Ohio-made cars was soon confirmed.

Nissan, Toyota and other Japanese car companies soon started building factories in America, followed by German and Korean auto makers. There are now 16 foreign-owned assembly plants in the U.S., and many more that build engines, transmissions and other components. The UAW hasn’t organized many of them, the main exceptions being plants that began as partnerships between a U.S. and Japanese auto maker, where the union was “grandfathered” in. As Detroit’s oligopoly was broken, so was the UAW’s labor monopoly in the auto industry. The big winner was the car-buying public.

Meanwhile, in the same year that Honda started building cars in Ohio, General Motors asked the UAW for wage concessions to help ease the company’s financial straits. But on the same day that UAW members voted approval, GM Chairman Roger B. Smith unveiled a new formula that made it easier for him and other executives to earn bonuses. It was a historic blunder.

In 1987, when I was this newspaper’s Detroit bureau chief, Mr. Smith asked me to tour several GM factories to view first-hand how the company’s relationship with its workers had improved. At the GM engine plant in Tonawanda, N.Y., near Buffalo, I got glowing reports about the dawn of a new spirit of cooperation. Then I asked to visit the men’s room, and was stunned to see that there were two: one for hourly workers, and a separate one for management. I used the hourly men’s loo.

21. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2008

A friend sent me this.

Brazil targets illegal abortions

The authorities only became aware of the clinic following a television interview, which led to a police investigation that could eventually involve more than 1,200 women and some of their partners, as well as medical staff.

To gather evidence, Judge Aluizio Pereira dos Santos is said to have interviewed husbands, ex-boyfriends and relatives of some of the women accused of having abortions.

Human rights and women’s organisations have complained that the process has been humiliating for those involved, and has included demands for intimate medical examinations.

At least 30 women have already been sentenced to community work in creches or schools for disabled children.

The judge was reported by the newspaper O Estado de Sao Paulo as saying that other women who had to work to support their children, or who helped them deal with physical or mental disability, would act as a role model for those found to have had illegal abortions.

22. bayprairie - 20 November 2008

Funniest thing ive read in months.

LAS VEGAS—Nevada Sen. Harry Reid says he plans to be a “softer majority leader” once fellow Democrat Barack Obama holds the White House and the number of Democrats in the Senate swells.

softer? heehee. what a scream. is that possible?

Reid has had many public battles with Republicans and the Bush administration in his first two years as majority leader. He has described the Iraq War as “the worst foreign policy blunder in the history of our country” and President Bush as “the worst president we ever had.

He told the paper his fights helped draw distinctions between the parties and helped Democrats win the presidency and new majorities in Congress.

“Even though my fighting for two years at times was not very photogenic, at the end of it is a pretty good picture,” Reid said.

ROTFLOL

he’s already positioning himself for a 2010 re-election campaign where Republicans have indicated he will be a target for defeat.

Reid, who has been in Congress since 1983 and in the Senate since 1987, plans to tell Nevadans he has accomplished more for the state than any of his predecessors.

“As I look back on the years of knowing something about Nevada history, I know what others have been able to accomplish and no one has been able to do what I have done,” Reid said. “That includes Pat McCarran, Howard Cannon, Alan Bible, Paul Laxalt, you name them. If that is boasting I don’t mean it to be that way, but I am trying to be as factual as I can.”

:::snip:::

And he compared his soon-to-end combative relationship with President George W. Bush to that of bighorn sheep that seek to establish dominance by running at each other and ramming their horns together.

“That is what George Bush and I have been doing, and we won’t do that anymore,” Reid said. “I will have nobody to butt heads with.”

“fighting” harry reid, the lambkin of nevada.

23. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2008
24. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2008
25. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2008

Plus ça change: “Progressive” Leaders Ride War Machine Deeper Into Darkness

For this is the hard truth – the blood-and-iron truth – that our age has taught us so well: war is always a win-win proposition for the corporate-militarist state that has devoured the American Republic. Even if the particular conflict itself ends badly or inconclusively, it always engenders vast profits and increased power and privilege for the corporate-militarist elite — and the temporary managers they graciously allow the American people to “choose” from a rigorously sifted, highly circumscribed menu of “viable” candidates. So it doesn’t matter if this war or that war is “ill-conceived” or “badly managed” or a “serious mistake” or “the wrong war at the wrong time,” or if its public justifications are based on lies or ignorance or arrogance, or if it bankrupts the treasury, beggars the citizenry, and destabilizes the world. The small, golden, coddled circle still reaps dividends of profit and dominance.

Naturally, this kind of thing can’t go on forever; history is replete with examples of imperial elites who eventually bled their nations dry and saw them fall into ruin or curdle into a fearful insignificance. But I think that those who believe – either hopefully or in despair – that the American empire will shrivel away anytime soon are badly mistaken. The war machine and the security apparatus are not shrinking; they are growing by leaps and bounds, and Obama has promised to make them even larger. The economic disaster doesn’t threaten the position of the imperial elites at all. On the contrary, as we have seen in the last few weeks, the Obama-backed “bailout” plan has enriched the already rich and powerful to a staggering degree. As CNBC reports, the government has spent more on saving the rich from the consequences of their greed than it spent in winning World War II: more than $4 trillion so far, with much more to come. This astonishing theft – the largest gobbling of public loot by a rapacious elite in the history of the world – will only further cement the powerful in their entrenchments on the commanding heights of society. The nation may rot beneath them, may be roiled by storms of blowback; but that is not their concern, it is no defeat for them. You can lose; they do not.

26. marisacat - 20 November 2008

bay (1) and Madman (2)

out of moderation! sorry for the delay… I was dead asleep

27. marisacat - 20 November 2008

he’s already positioning himself for a 2010 re-election campaign where Republicans have indicated he will be a target for defeat.

He and Ensign had a deal… they split power in NV (following the election that Ensign won over Reid that is)… Reid and Democrats were on Ensign stump stages during his last run… and for Reid there was no counter campaiging… the party discouraged a couple of R from running against him.

Maybe the deal is off. I had read in the LV press that R in NV were nto happy with the deal. Movement R do not like Ensign who is a Business R… what the state of the NV Dem party is I have no idea.

I personally think Reid is addled. but able to not drool his soup in public so he gets by. His “toughness” is just that he pops off, little impulse control. and then there is that signature demeanor of his “Thank you for ALLOWING me to … ”

Be great to be rid of him.

28. marisacat - 20 November 2008

SF Gate:

The court agreed Wednesday to review two arguments by opponents of Prop. 8: that the measure exceeds the legal scope of a ballot initiative by allowing a majority to restrict a minority group’s rights, and that it violates the constitutional separation of powers by limiting judicial authority.

The justices also asked for arguments on whether Prop. 8, if constitutional, would nullify 18,000 same-sex weddings performed between when the court’s marriage ruling took effect in mid-June and Nov. 4. Attorney General Jerry Brown, who will defend Prop. 8 as the state’s chief lawyer, contends those marriages are legal, but sponsors of the initiative disagree.

The justices asked for written arguments to be submitted through Jan. 21. The court could hold a hearing as early as March, and a ruling would be due 90 days later.

Without the quick agreement to take the issues up and an expedited schedule this process would have taken 2 – 3 years, apparently.

29. marisacat - 20 November 2008

While I was there I saw this:

MEXICO CITY, Mexico (AP) –

Mexican emigration has dropped 42 percent over the last two years, a government study released Thursday showed, confirming that America has become less appealing amid an economic downturn and stepped up raids against illegal migrants.

About eight of every 1,000 Mexicans emigrated between February and May of this year, according to the survey conducted by the National Statistics and Geography Institute. That’s a 42 percent drop from the same period in 2006.

In all of 2007, an estimated 814,000 Mexicans emigrated, compared to 1.2 million in 2006. The figure — which was reached through household surveys — includes all Mexicans who left the country, and did not break down legal and illegal migration. ::snip::

30. marisacat - 21 November 2008

EXCLUSIVE:

President-elect Barack Obama will not move for months, and perhaps not until 2010, to ask Congress to end the military’s decades-old ban on open homosexuals in the ranks, two people who have advised the Obama transition team on this issue say.

Repealing the ban was an Obama campaign promise. However, Mr. Obama first wants to confer with the Joint Chiefs of Staff and his new political appointees at the Pentagon to reach a consensus and then present legislation to Congress, the advisers said.

“I think 2009 is about foundation building and reaching consensus,” said Aubrey Sarvis, executive director of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. The group supports military personnel targeted under the ban.

Mr. Sarvis said not to look for the debate to begin until late next year or 2010.

“What’s the reality for the new administration?” he said. “Financial crisis. Economic upheaval. Health care reform. Environmental challenges. Where does ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ fall in all this? I would say it is not in the top five priorities of national issues.”

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

“I think 2009 is about foundation building and reaching consensus,” said Aubrey Sarvis, executive director of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. The group supports military personnel targeted under the ban.

NOTHING will change in a political system where the so-called left ties it’s own hands by locking what it does to the strategic calculations of the politicians.

Stupid, and sad, and a fucking waste.

32. marisacat - 21 November 2008

yeah I thought he seemed especially servile.

33. wu ming - 21 November 2008

Why would someone drive from California to Texas to sell pizza? Yeesh.

because california’s unemployment rate is nearly 8% and rising, using the government’s already-suppressed unemployment numbers. depending on where that guy is, his customers may well have been foreclosed on and moved out of state themselves. we’re hurting badly right now, and it will get a whole lot worse as we go into next year.

34. NYCO - 21 November 2008

Actually I read up a little on this guy out of curiosity… He used to run a popular pizza joint in Seattle called Zagi’s. Then apparently he got into the festival circuit and shut his restaurant. So I guess there is money in dragging your arse around the West selling pizza at festivals. Must be really special pizza.

35. marisacat - 21 November 2008

LOL This is actually funny…

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:

General Motors to Give Up Two Corporate Jets After Execs Were Blasted on Capitol Hill [12:28 p.m. ET]

36. marisacat - 21 November 2008

hmm sully is stressed. Over Brennan, 3 posts – and Brennan is just a possibility at this point …. and the apparent indications that Ob will “go slow” on DADT (and whatever else).

Kind of amusing, frankly.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/

37. marisacat - 21 November 2008

Hillary accepted… NYT.

Then again, it is coming from “two confidants”.

Hillary Rodham Clinton has decided to give up her Senate seat and accept the position of secretary of state, making her the public face around the world for the administration of the man who beat her for the Democratic presidential nomination, two confidants said Friday.

Mrs. Clinton came to her decision after additional discussion with President-elect Barack Obama about the nature of her role and his plans for foreign policy, said one of the confidants, who insisted on anonymity to discuss the situation. Mr. Obama’s office told reporters Thursday that the nomination is “on track” but Clinton associates only confirmed Friday afternoon that she has decided.

“She’s ready,” said the confidant. Mrs. Clinton was reassured after talking again with Mr. Obama because their first meeting in Chicago last week “was so general,” the confidant said. The purpose of the follow-up talk, he added, was not to extract particular concessions but “just getting comfortable” with the idea of working together.

A second Clinton associate confirmed that her camp believes they have a done deal. Senior Obama advisers said Friday morning that the offer had not been formally accepted and no announcement will be made until after Thanksgiving. But they said they were convinced that the nascent alliance was now ready to be sealed.

38. lucid - 21 November 2008

What if they threw a music festival and nobody came?

Seriously — NOBODY?

I played a festival this summer in DE that was kinda like that… Promised 10,000 people. About 200 showed up – headlined by the Fixx. When we contacted the local paper, they hadn’t heard about the festival at all, but decided to do a brief article on it with the info we supplied them, featuring a photo of us… funny, funny.

Immediately prior to our set, I watched The Fixx play to 50 people.

39. marisacat - 21 November 2008

The power of the locally distributed flyer….
;)

40. marisacat - 21 November 2008

William Pfaff on bracing for disappointment. He indicates he voted for Ob… well fine…not like there was a CHOICE, but I sure as hell hope PFAFF of all people did not buy in.

Are there no significant differences of view on war and peace between the two of them? Why did the American (and international) public have to endure a year and a half of Democratic Party primaries in addition to the national election contest if the Democratic race could have been settled by the flip of a coin between people who believed in the same policies and thought the same thoughts?

[I dunno, why did we? It was fucking nightmare to live thru... -- Mcat]

Where is the sweeping change Barack Obama was promising the electorate? Looking back, he was rarely specific about the changes he intended to make. He constantly invoked the principle of change, without going much into the messy details, for which—admittedly—he was criticized at the time.

Many who voted for him, as did this writer, relied upon his evident qualities, in comparison with his predecessor and most of his competitors, which were that he clearly was very intelligent, as well as balanced and mature: He was an adult, who spoke to his audiences as fellow adults. This was his great difference from Hillary Clinton. Personally very intelligent, she has spent too long in the shady political precincts of ambition and calculation. She could never have made the speech Obama made on race. (Possibly he will never again be able to make such a speech. He has himself said that we must settle down now to being disappointed by Obama.)

I found the speech a rather tired construct. Two grafs, one on blacks and one on white, of mild retail politics interest on limited race issues, tacked onto stump verities. GeezLoueez.

Supposedly Richardson to Commerce and Geithner to Treasury… leaks. Not confirmed. dontcha love it.

oops Phillipe Reines says Hillary still ”in discussion”.
Bad confidants! Down confidants!
hmmmmmmmmmmm.

41. marisacat - 21 November 2008

Market likes the Geithner float. Or so they tell us… 8O

”The Dow Jones booms nearly 500 points following news that New York Fed President Timothy Geithner is likely to be named treasury secretary on Monday.” — The Page

42. marisacat - 21 November 2008

LOL i think retread Richardson should be sent packing to NM, but BFF Pritzker was a bag of problems. 2001 was not a good year for her, her family, Superior Bank NOR for the promises she put on paper.

In May 2001, Ms. Pritzker wrote a letter to bank employees assuring them that her family would put more cash in to save the bank, and declaring that “our commitment to subprime lending has never been stronger.” But the Pritzker family did not carry out the plan, and the bank was shut down in July 2001.

So far I am happy about Waxman. And if Pelosi helped shove Dingell aside, well, she did one thing. About it.

43. NYCO - 21 November 2008

But they said they were convinced that the nascent alliance was now ready to be sealed.

Or… consummated. Commence the heavy breathing.

44. Intermittent Bystander - 21 November 2008

Commence the heavy breathing.

Those galloping herds left the barn days ago, and are pawing and snorting all over the ranch!

Will Sec. Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (by RH Reality Check).

Best comment so far:

she will be far too busy (0+ / 0-)

eating the babies of kossacks to do this surely.

by Zain on Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 02:40:43 PM PST

Speaking of the little people: Obama Kids To Attend Private D.C. School: Obamas Choose Sidwell Friends For Sasha And Malia; Same School That Joe Biden’s Grandkids Attend

Sidwell is a private Quaker school with a campus in northwest Washington for grades 5-12 and another in suburban Bethesda, Md., for kindergarten through fourth grade.

45. Intermittent Bystander - 21 November 2008

Little creatures in spam?

More good news like Waxman would be welcome. Nice to see Stevens fucking off, too, despite the disgraceful and debauched grand farewell.

Hey NYCO – Lily very purty! A real watercolor storybook cat.

46. marisacat - 21 November 2008

IB

is there still a comment missing? As there is nothing in moderation nor in Spam… (Sorry fro the delay, grocery delivery)

Looks like they split the two girls between the campuses… I had nto expected them to pick Sidwell, it has a very lax policy on dress and personal presentation. They have a [good imo] idea to let children express themselves…

47. aemd - 21 November 2008

Ok, I admit it. I don’t get the grift. What’s with St Hill as SOS? Just to pull her out of the Senate?

Waxman too? I’m missing something here…..

Maybe things have gotten so unstable that The One is throwing everything to the wind… Maybe he didn’t truly think he would take the throne.

48. Intermittent Bystander - 21 November 2008

Nothing missing now . . . thanks! WordPress musta just burped it up.

49. marisacat - 21 November 2008

well I don’t know what Waxman will do… but from all I have read Dingell was BFF to Detroit and the motor industry, to the extreme degree… pushing Dems back (as they fluttered like dying birds, I would guess) about demanding better mileage, etc.. Also he was the BFF to the NRA, hobbling the Dems (as they continued to beat against the glass walls, like dying birds)…

Not that Waxman is a spring chick but some of the old guys need to do or, imo, quickly die.

I don;t like the Hillary pick nor any of the “excuses” for it. One pundit right off said it violates “don’t hire anyone you can’t fire”. She’d be hard to fire or a big showy fire.

But then I never bought the “no drama” part of the Obama legend.
So Dingell getting moved is at least some small shift.

50. Intermittent Bystander - 21 November 2008

Waxman wasn’t an Obama cabinet pick – he just beat out Dingell to chair the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

From the LAT today Waxman expected to advance Obama’s climate agenda as new energy committee chairman.

As for Hillary, who knows? Maybe just to yew-ni-fye the country with diverse constituencies?

51. Intermittent Bystander - 21 November 2008

From the LAT piece:

It [the committee] will also consider proposals to make health insurance more available. But despite their differences on environmental regulation, Dingell and Waxman are both longtime champions of universal access to healthcare.

The committee chairmanship will also give Waxman a louder voice in legislation affecting his hometown industry, entertainment. As chairman, he will have oversight of the Federal Communications Commission, which in recent years has cracked down on indecent language on broadcast television. The committee also oversees telecommunications issues related to cable TV and the Internet.

But Waxman’s new role could be a double-edged sword for Hollywood, as he has a history of conducting hard-hitting hearings on issues and controversies under his jurisdiction.

Waxman will assume the chairmanship with close ties to the White House, as his former chief of staff, Phil Schiliro, has been named Obama’s liaison to Congress.

52. NYCO - 21 November 2008

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/56233.html

WASHINGTON — President-elect Barack Obama’s 3 million campaign volunteers got re-enlistment notices this week.

Campaign manager David Plouffe, in a mass e-mail sent Wednesday to former workers, asked how much time they can spare for four missions integral to Obama’s effort to transform his victory into a broader political movement.

The volunteers’ options are, Plouffe wrote:

* Campaign for progressive state and local candidates

* Undertake grassroots local efforts to advance Obama’s agenda

* Train others in Obama’s organizing techniques

* Focus on local political issues.

They’ll never take me alive.

53. marisacat - 21 November 2008

They’ll never take me alive.

Oh that made me laugh so hard. Thank you… :)

54. Intermittent Bystander - 21 November 2008

Undertake grassroots local efforts to advance Obama’s agenda

Memos on agenda to follow!

55. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

(Sorry fro the delay, grocery delivery)

I hope you didn’t order too much … we all must tighten our belts, batten down the hatches, genuflect to Teh One, cut corners, reduce expectations, put a chicken in only every other pot etc.

56. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

I’ve had a thought about how Teddy could do some good to make up for his years of worthlessness and NCLB …

1) Put forward a bill with a robust single payer healthcare system.

2) Quickly succomb to his brain tumor when the Republicans filibuster it, providing the needed Kennedy martyr to get it passed.

Evil of me, I know, but there it is.

57. marisacat - 21 November 2008

well they did not deliver everything i ordered, so austerity was imposed one might say…., LOL… but I do notice that they have reduced their fuel surcharge, that appeared first about 4 months ago. It is down to about 40% of what it was at the height.

58. marisacat - 21 November 2008

Speaking of health care, I had meant to link to this tale of living under the French health care system

59. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

57 – they have reduced their fuel surcharge

Which you are now required to donate to the Obama Fund to Set Up a True College Football Championship.

Priorities people, priorities!

Oh, and onto other world-shaking solutions:

Obama might get rid of daylight saving time

60. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008
61. marisacat - 21 November 2008

59

those are real, I take it… fillers while we wait for Detroit to look better, smell less gamy, I guess…

62. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

You And What 44 Other Armies?

The United States is projected to spend more on defense in FY 2009 than the next 45 highest spending countries combined, yet a push by conservatives and the military, backed by arms companies, is trying to lock the defense budget at 4% of GDP.

The unholy triumvirate of Pentagon deskwarriors, arms manufacturers and conservative fans of defense pork are ramping up a pressure campaign right now designed to inflate the military’s budget requirements and thus provide a cushion for what they believe will be an Obama administration’s pullback from record defense spending levels under Bush. By January, that campaign will be in high gear, with lobbyists and pundits enlisted to push for money to fund everything from missile defense plans against non-existant threats to stealth jets as counter-terrorism platforms against small groups of men with improvised bombs.

The centerpiece of their pressure plan is “Four Percent for Freedom” – a notion that defense spending should be pegged at a baseline of four percent of national GDP, forever amen. It’s a dishonest and misleading slogan invented by the neoconservative Heritage Foundation but pushed by Dubya, John McCain, Republican lawmakers, CJCS Admiral Mullen and SecDef Bob Gates – one which if turned into policy will hamstring Obama’s budget options, perpetuate a massive world of pork and undermine civilian control of the military. In this quarter’s Parameters, the journal of the Army War College, Travis Sharp of the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation lays out the reasons why Obama and the nation should say “No” to the triumvirate’s lobbying.

The campaign is dishonest from the get-go. It’s based on a claim that even Bush’s profligate defense spending amounts to only 3.43% of GDP – but it neglects to account for $26 billion in non-DOD spending and $170 billion in supplementary spending on the misadventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. Taken all together, those amount to 4.73% of GDP and a staggering $711 billion dollars – a bailout a year or almost 50% of the governments budget. It’s a vastly higher sum, in real terms, than the U.S. has ever spent on defense before and it outstrips, by a wide margin, spending by the rest of the world.

Not that it matters, but sainted founding father, etc: “Standing armies [are] inconsistent with [a people's] freedom and subversive of their quiet.” –Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Lord North’s Proposition, 1775. Papers 1:231

63. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

61 – well, those are SERIOUS problems, unlike the increasingly unstable economy. OH, wait, the daylight savings thing is supposed to save power or something. TWO birds with one rhetorical device!

64. NYCO - 21 November 2008

Civic Literacy Test…

The average score for all 2,508 Americans taking the following test was 49%; college educators scored 55%. Can you do better? Questions were drawn from past ISI surveys, as well as other nationally recognized exams.

The test: http://americancivicliteracy.org/resources/quiz.aspx

My mother, who completed high school but did not go on to college, took this and scored an 88.

My father, who did not go any further than 8th grade, took this and scored a 90.

Average score for those 18-34 years old: 47.

“Uneducated, low-information voters.”

65. marisacat - 21 November 2008

I took the test and really had no idea how it might turn out, sometimes I get shaky on details… but, whew, mother and father paying tuition was not an abject failure:

You answered 31 out of 33 correctly — 93.94 %

Average score for this quiz during November: 77.7%
Average score: 77.7%

You can take the quiz as often as you like, however, your score will only count once toward the monthly average.

66. NYCO - 21 November 2008

Some of the economics questions seemed weird to me, as if they were somehow skewed…

…and as my dad would be fond of saying “Civic Literacy and three shillings will get you a beer at the pub.”

Here’s the thing: I doubt anyone “knows” all the answers to this test but the more you have read about American history and civics (either on your own or forced to in school), the firmer ground you have to make good guesses based on critical thinking.

The thing is I don’t really remember where I learned this stuff, but I’m pretty sure I did not learn it in college. So… what ARE kids learning in high school these days? What tests are they taking that I would fail?

67. marisacat - 21 November 2008

agree on the economics questions… I answered a couple of times with what I thought was the mainstream perception, as no answer offered was how I think things really are.

I don’t remember where I learned thngs either. probably a mix. I know at some point I got a relatively decent education in American history and I think it ws outside the country, along about sophomore junior HS level.

68. marisacat - 21 November 2008

I cuaght this on ABC evening news… just hope it pans out and is not Pickens generated PR.. it could save the mustangs, if she means it.

69. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

Some of the economics questions seemed weird to me, as if they were somehow skewed…

They’re heavily weighted toward the the low-tax, Chicago-school-of-economics-friendly view of the economy. The usual treatment of that point of view as some kind of scientific representation of an almost natural “system”. I found that aspect of it rather insidious, b/c it implies that that particular slant on setting up the economy is as sacrosanct as the founding documents.

I couldn’t find any real information on who that org is, who runs it, and what it’s mission is. That always makes me suspicious.

70. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

The Sucker Bait Called Hope – Making the best of a slow apocalypse

We just concluded an election in which both parties talked about hope, one more so than the other. Hope, that murky, undefined belief that some unknown force, perhaps Jesus, or modern science, or some great political leader, or other — as yet unknown force — will reverse our national or personal condition … will deliver us from what every bit of evidence indicates is irreversible, if not politically, then ecologically: Decline and eventual collapse. There is quite a difference between hope and understanding the facts, then holding justified optimism. Hope is magical thinking, a sucker’s game. Politicians the world ’round fully understand this.

Consequently, we go into a new year with millions of Americans still clinging to The Audacity of Hope. And we do so because we are victims of learned helplessness, learned from the cradle as it is rocked by the foot of the Capitalist consumer state. Sure we can hope for movement away from domination of the weak by the arrogant, away from ecocide and genocide toward a better world. What the hell, hope is one of the few free activities in this society. We don’t even have to put down the remote and get off our asses to do it. In fact, its delivered through television.

But the fact is that when we encounter in-the-flesh examples of any merciful movement — even through television — we blanch and erect a wall of denial and excuses for our refusal to support that thing. Consider how the American public and the media (is there a difference?) responded to Rachel Corrie, who willingly died under the Israeli bulldozer protecting the home of a non-partisan Palestinian village doctor. The U.S. media all but ignored her. What few of the public knew of Cory’s sacrifice were at first nonplussed, then deemed it a bizarre and stupid act. But even most Americans who did know joined the Larry Kings of the world in backhandedly mocking her. Moral conviction scares the hell out of us. Hope is effortless.

71. wu ming - 21 November 2008

definite neoliberal bent on the economic questions.

72. marisacat - 21 November 2008

well, “hope” in this culture, when meshed with retail politics is simply enforced denial mixed with enforced cheery positivism.

And positivism especially when baseless is something I disdained decades ago.

73. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

71 – that quiz feels a little bit like a Bloomish attack on economics, like he pulled on literary academia.

The whole slant is “strong central gov’t BAD” and some weird slant toward a Judeo-Xtian slant GOOD. Like this question … what the hell does it have to do w/ American civics?

13) Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Aquinas would concur that:

A. all moral and political truth is relative to one’s time and place
B. moral ideas are best explained as material accidents or byproducts of evolution
C. values originating in one’s conscience cannot be judged by others
D. Christianity is the only true religion and should rule the state
E. certain permanent moral and political truths are accessible to human reason

The answer is E, of course, and that POV informed much of the Deism that informed our founders, but it’s not really a part of American civics, and it’s certainly debatable, especially the idea that there are permanent “moral and political truths”.

There is also this one:

16) In his “I Have a Dream” speech, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.:

A. argued for the abolition of slavery
B. advocated black separatism
C. morally defended affirmative action
D. expressed his hopes for racial justice and brotherhood
E. proposed that several of America’s founding ideas were discriminatory

The acceptable answer is D, but there is an undercurrent that E is also part of that speech, and it runs through all of Dr. King’s work. To say that such a complicated man can be summed up in a simple multple-choice diminishes his protests.

Questions 25 – 33 are pure neo-liberalism.

27) Free markets typically secure more economic prosperity than government’s centralized planning because:

A. the price system utilizes more local knowledge of means and ends
B. markets rely upon coercion, whereas government relies upon voluntary compliance with the law
C. more tax revenue can be generated from free enterprise
D. property rights and contracts are best enforced by the market system
E. government planners are too cautious in spending taxpayers’ money

That is a purely debatable question. Hell, one of the big debates going on now is valuation of assets and how the worth of things is defined, who benefits. How do you define “prosperity”? Property rights and contracts are creations of legal systems, of the gov’t … the market system doesn’t “enforce” anything.

Or this one:

30) Which of the following fiscal policy combinations would a government most likely follow to stimulate economic activity when the economy is in a severe recession?

A. increasing both taxes and spending
B. increasing taxes and decreasing spending
C. decreasing taxes and increasing spending
D. decreasing both taxes and spending

Well, that’s the debate going on right now, isn’t it? How can there be a “right” answer?

This one is just silly:

31) International trade and specialization most often lead to which of the following?

A. an increase in a nation’s productivity
B. a decrease in a nation’s economic growth in the long term
C. an increase in a nation’s import tariffs
D. a decrease in a nation’s standard of living

74. marisacat - 21 November 2008

I picked E …

well reemmber that stupid questionaire that every nut in blogsnottery had as a tag line, I mean their numerical score? It looked t me to be propagandistically skewed toward Libertarianism, of a certain kind. Some of the questions were just looney.

75. marisacat - 21 November 2008

for 30 I picked C, I thought it was the “formulaic” answer. A sort of baseline teaching, or something.

76. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

I still find these sorts of quizzes to be interesting exercises … for some strange reason.

77. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

75 – I think that is the answer the quiz accepts. IIRC, FDR increased both … of course, one can argue whether his program was working before the war got things cooking.

78. lucid - 21 November 2008

87.88% – missed 7,27, 29, 33. 33 is just dead wrong, because apportionment has nothing to do with ‘individuals’. 29 is dead wrong because individuals are paying for it [taxes]. I answered C to 27 because the thing seemed to have a ridiculous capitalist bent I thought C was what they wanted, though, actually B [markets rely upon coercion, whereas government relies upon voluntary compliance with the law] is the most accurate. As for 7 – thought the quote was earlier than Lincoln and knew it wasn’t in the Declaration… so I thought… preamble?

That quiz has no business being a ‘civics quiz’.

79. marisacat - 21 November 2008

I thought it was earlier than Lincoln as well. And can’t remember what i picked.

Just to quell wondering they should give you at least what you missed… LOL.

80. lucid - 21 November 2008

Mitm – 73

Question 13 – you know how I seethe at this. The ‘correct answer’ [which I knew from reading countless worthless American classicists] is

E. certain permanent moral and political truths are accessible to human reason

Of course not only is lumping those 4 into the same question ridiculous, but quite frankly, ‘reason’, as a concept, really wasn’t invented until the Enlightenment. For Plato, it was ontos, being. And he had his conception of how that was manifest in human affairs. Aristotle had a completely different conception that actually lead to the idea of the historicity of knowledge – far from ontos. Socrates, by most accounts [save Plato], was a borderline Sophist, meaning he had a least one solid foot in humanism. Aquinas? Christ…

When I read questions like that, I must seriously question the intelligence of the questioner, and conclude that they have an agenda that they don’t even understand, because they obviously don’t understand the history of western thought.

81. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

they obviously don’t understand the history of western thought.

Well, they understand the history of western thought as an agitprop tool. That’s all.

82. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2008

oh, and I meant “of course” as “this is the ‘right’ answer”, not that I agreed with it.

83. lucid - 21 November 2008

I didn’t mean to imply otherwise.

84. marisacat - 22 November 2008

gnu thred……..

LINK

…………….. 8O ………………

85. bayprairie - 22 November 2008

madman said

I couldn’t find any real information on who that org is, who runs it, and what it’s mission is. That always makes me suspicious.

the organization below is domain registrant.

Intercollegiate Studies Institute

86. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 November 2008

thanks bay … I guess I was assuming they were a front org, not some long-existing Bircher style group.


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