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Red in the ice storm… 19 December 2008

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, Abortion Rights, Divertissements, Sex / Reproductive Health.
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Mickey Patel sent us this photograph from Hanover, New Hampshire. “The storm made everything plenty depressing, but the trees and plants looked stunning”, he says. [BBC]

If the Warren story is worn out for you or was always boring and one dimensional… employ the eyelids or allow the seasonal haze to insert itself and scroll on by…

None other than Sully’s nookery served up this remarkable email (among his 25 or so posts on Warren) from a reader of his… who, as a young and confused pastor at a church near Warren’s,  put himself thru the Warren ministry that seeks to heal the gay (bold is mine)…

[S]o when I send emails to my otherwise liberal friends telling them to send an email expressing their disapproval of the choice of Warren, and they send me emails back acknowledging the political symbolism of why Obama did what he did, please understand my frustration.

It’s obvious what Obama is trying to do by having Warren give the convocation at his inauguration, and it is understandable – but for me as a human being who was personally damaged by Warren’s theology and his church specifically, it is unforgivable. 

And to cover it over with vague rhetoric about a politics of inclusion and unity is similarly unforgivable.

Some friends have told me that my “personal issues” make me too emotionally involved with this issue, and of course they do – but perhaps that is precisely what gives me the right to be upset about this decision.  [...]

Why is it so few care when the so called religious do great harm?

It affected Sully for a bit, but soon he was back to:

Dish readers will know my own conflicted feelings about the selection of Rick Warren for the Inaugural Invocation. But feelings must at some point cede to reason. And I sense an understandable but, the more I think about it, misjudged response on the part of my fellow gays and lesbians. In our hurt, we may be pushing away from a real opportunity to engage and win hearts and minds. [...]

I think the earnestness and sincerity of his campaign, and its generational force, have given us a chance for something new, and I fear that in responding too viscerally to the Warren choice, we may be throwing something very valuable away far too prematurely.

He ends up referring to the selection of Warren as nothing more than a  “symbolic slight”

But we should also understand Obama’s attempt to bridge some gaps in America that the Clintons, with their boomer baggage and Dick Morris cynicism, couldn’t and didn’t. This is what matters. Do gays and lesbians want to be a part of this – or sit fuming on the sidelines at symbolic slights?

And lobs this whopper – someone inform him he is ONE GAY, he does not speak for all, no more than I speak for all women (italics are mine)…

The greatest distortion of our politics in this respect is the notion that gays are in some way opposed to faith and in some way that our cause is a function solely of the left. Neither is true.

****

Malcolm Gladwell goes rather too ga-ga (imo) for Warren’s “cellular” approach… who effing cares?  I am as interested in the way all manner of  things sort themselves out and arrange themselves as most are… but that is NOT really what Warren is up to… some cellular building block launch pad to Jesus (fly me to the moon!)…  In light of another article today in the Guardian, this from the 2005 Gladwell New Yorker piece is revealing:

[W]arren has made repeated trips to Africa. He has sent out volunteers to forty-seven countries around the world, test-piloting experiments in microfinance and H.I.V. prevention and medical education. He decided to take the same networks he had built to train pastors and spread the purpose-driven life and put them to work on social problems.

“There is only one thing big enough to handle the world’s problems, and that is the millions and millions of churches spread out around the world,” he says. “I can take you to thousands of villages where they don’t have a school. They don’t have a grocery store, don’t have a fire department. But they have a church. They have a pastor. They have volunteers. The problem today is distribution. In the tsunami, millions of dollars of foodstuffs piled up on the shores and people couldn’t get it into the places that needed it, because they didn’t have a network. Well, the biggest distribution network in the world is local churches. There are millions of them, far more than all the franchises in the world. Put together, they could be a force for good.”  …snip…

Spare me.

[A]t the Anaheim stadium service, Warren laid out his plan for attacking poverty and disease. He didn’t talk about governments, though, or the United Nations, or structures, or laws. He talked about the pastors he had met in his travels around the world. He brought out the President of Rwanda, who stood up at the microphone—a short, slender man in an immaculate black suit—and spoke in halting English about how Warren was helping him rebuild his country. When he was finished, the crowd erupted in applause, and Rick Warren walked across the stage and enfolded him in his long arms.

Have a  hug from Jesus…

Reminds me of how Bill C trots out his usual mouthpieces at his annual CGI in Manhattan.. one of which is Sirleaf, the woman president from Liberia.  The Johnsons, together or apart, of BET fame, Rania of Lebanon… and so on.  Mannequins.

Gladwell was utterly uncritical.  Again I think, The New Yorker is all too often the Sears Roebuck catalogue of this century.  Hang it in the outhouse.

Madman sent me this today, from the Guardianand I think in this passage the author, Michelle Goldberg, gets to the nut of what should be happening, if a different party than the national Dems were to reach out to organised religious leaders (bold is mine)…

Recently, Democrats have been much concerned with wooing religious voters, and with pushing back against the conservative calumny that they are a party hostile to faith.

But the way for a progressive party to do that should be to enlarge the scope of discussion about morality in American life, not to pander to the same prejudices as the religious right. Democrats could foreground religious leaders who articulate the moral imperative of fighting poverty, torture and inequality.

They don’t need to get religion by becoming more hostile to gay people and to reproductive rights. Rather, they need to empower the many religious voices who support both.

There’ s a thought!

Here  Goldberg gets to what is happening in Uganda in the wake of Rick Warren (and Bush and PEPFAR and all the movie stars and Democrats and religious who slobber for the great good Bush has done…):

Warren is sometimes credited with broadening evangelical activism to transcend religious right preoccupations, but that’s a bit deceptive. Much has been made of his work on HIV/Aids in Africa. In fact, though, Warren has taken the standard Christian conservative approach to the epidemic, which favours abstinence and prayer over condoms and sex education.

I once attended Sunday services at the church of Martin Ssempa, one of Warren’s protégés in Uganda and a major force in that country’s devastating move away from safe-sex campaigns. It is a heartbreaking thing to watch a tongue-speaking faith-healer promise a room full of sobbing people – many of them poor, many infected with HIV – that Jesus can cure them, if only they believe in him unconditionally (belief demonstrated, of course, in part by tithing generously).

Obster and Warren, imo, are marketeers – and whatever else…  And, as Moss who followed Wright at  TUCC refers to the business, pulpiteers.  What a shame.

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Comments»

1. NYCO - 19 December 2008

Am I the only one who was unaware that Fafblog has returned?

And it was back during the election too. And I missed it.

2. marisacat - 19 December 2008

I did not know it hd returned… thanks for posting that NYCO….

3. NYCO - 19 December 2008

“Well back in the ol days we didn’t have your fancy Senatrons and Congressbots,” says me. “We hadda pick our presidents the ol fashioned way, with a money-eating contest. The first candidate to swallow half a billion dollars without throwin up would be King of all Florida!”

I’ve got a lot of catching up to do…

4. Hair Club for Men - 19 December 2008

Patti Smith moved back to New York in the 1990s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patti_smith

And she no longer seems to be a Green.

She supported Barack Obama in the 2008 U.S. presidential election.

But I think she just might get as unwelcome in the Democratic Party as Jimmy Carter. Obama might have to toss her under the bus.

Smith premiered two new protest songs in London in September 2006. Louise Jury, writing in The Independent, characterized them as “an emotional indictment of American and Israeli foreign policy”. Song “Qana” (available at official website) was about the Israeli airstrike on the Lebanese village of Qana. “Without Chains” (available at official website) is about Murat Kurnaz, a Turkish citizen who was born and raised in Germany, held at Guantanamo Bay detainment camp for four years. Jury’s article quotes Smith as saying:

I wrote both these songs directly in response to events that I felt outraged about. These are injustices against children and the young men and women who are being incarcerated. I’m an American, I pay taxes in my name and they are giving millions and millions of dollars to a country such as Israel and cluster bombs and defense technology and those bombs were dropped on common citizens in Qana. It’s terrible. It’s a human rights violation.

5. CSTAR - 19 December 2008

Re: Obama and Warren are Marketeers.

They’re selling some Kingdom. Or other.

No gracias. No soy monarquista.

6. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008

John Cloud was on w/ Schuster just a little bit ago … Schuster was giving him shit for calling Obama a “bigot” in the column. Cloud asks, “okay, give me a BETTER word.”

He did okay considering that Schuster kept interupting him and wouldn’t let him complete a thought.

7. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008

IB, regarding the snowy hell that is Milwaukee … very cold, very wet clumpy snow, blown around by 20 mph winds, in a city that doesn’t seem able to get caught up w/ it. It’s a mess.

8. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008

symbolic slights?

So it would be okay if Obama invited some white supremacist preacher who fed the poor, it being just symbolic and all. There are plenty of them around … I think Palin attended a church run by one, and if not there are several down south and out in Idaho. They are Americans, too, and it would be okay to just LISTEN to them, right?

Sully is such a moron.

9. Intermittent Bystander - 19 December 2008

7- Sympathies. Montreal has some pretty impressive machinery and parade protocols to deal with major dumpings. The nighttime operations in particular look like a sci-fi/industrial occupation.

I decided to call it a snow day after all, and ran errands before the storm came in.

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008

They don’t have a grocery store, don’t have a fire department. But they have a church.

I would argue that’s WHY they have so many fucking problems.

11. Intermittent Bystander - 19 December 2008

Fear not, unmerry ladies and gents. Advent continues. . . .
Obama’s top science posts should be announced Saturday.

John Holdren is a noted Harvard physicist who went from battling the spread of nuclear weapons to tackling the threat of global warming. He won a “genius” grant from the MacArthur Foundation. Some colleagues call Holdren one of the smartest people in the world.

As of Friday, he also was the leading contender to serve as top science adviser to President-elect Barack Obama.

While not confirmed by Obama officials, the scientific community was abuzz with the news. The American Association for the Advancement of Science said on its Science Insider website that Obama was expected to name Holdren to the post on Saturday.

::snip::

Obama also was expected to soon tap Oregon State University professor Jane Lubchenco, a marine biologist and expert on overfishing and climate change, as head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). Colleagues at the university described her as a leading contender for the post and said she was traveling to Chicago, where Obama has been making his Cabinet announcements.

12. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008

9- the city took a hit from last year’s record dumping, and the relentless drive by the suburban and upstate wingnuts to defund and cripple the city because of the usual post-white-flight bigotry and hatred.

Don’t even get me started on how a decimated bus system falls apart during one of these things.

13. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008

Pastor Ted

Haggard is the subject of an upcoming documentary by Alexandra Pelosi, which is why he’s back in the news a bit. He reveals that praying away the gay didn’t really work for him.

“The reason I kept my personal struggle a secret is because I feared that my friends would reject me, abandon me and kick me out, and the church would exile and excommunicate me. And that happened and more,” he says.
Yeah, it did, Mr. Haggard, and it happened (and will continue to happen) to a lot more people because you pushed the same message at the front of your church.

This is a tough blog post to write, because I really do want to feel sorry for the man–I don’t like seeing anyone unhappy, especially over something as core as their sexuality–and it’s clear that he still beats himself up over being gay. He’s not being honest with himself, and its causing not only him but his entire family great emotional pain. And yet I also feel a great deal of anger at him, because he’s visited that sort of pain on so many other young men and women in his life, and because he continues to perpetuate the stereotype of homosexuality as not only a choice, but as a sinful one that deserves the shunning and rejection he preached for so long.

14. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008

:oops:

I dropped an html tag, and I can’t get up!

:cry:

15. Intermittent Bystander - 19 December 2008

Oh boy. This’ll help.
Prop 8 proponents seek to nullify all same-sex marriages

The sponsors have filed three lawsuits with the state Supreme Court seeking to nullify those marriages. In addition to seeking the nullifications, the sponsors also filed responses to lawsuits seeking to strike down the ballot initiative.

The briefs defend Proposition 8 against opponents’ legal challenges, such as the argument that the amendment needs a constitutional convention to be added to the state’s constitution.

“We are confident that the will of the voters and Proposition 8 will ultimately be upheld,” said Andrew Pugno, general counsel for ProtectMarriage.com and the Proposition 8 Legal Defense Fund.

::snip::

Proposition 8 supporters also announced the addition of Kenneth Starr to their legal team. Starr will serve as lead counsel and argue their case to the Supreme Court.

16. Intermittent Bystander - 19 December 2008

Sarah Chayes on Afghanistan and Gov Paterson on the fiscal difficulties of the states will be on Moyers tonight

17. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008

oh, and was it just me, or was Blago’s choice of words …

“I will fight. I will fight. I will fight until I take my last breath,” he said

… reminiscent of THIS:

Jim Jones: Shit. bullshit. Martin Luther died talking about some kind of generalized love and he never even backed it up. Bullshit, love is the only weapon with which I got to fight. I got a hell of a lot of weapons to fight. I got my claws, I got cutlasses, I got guns. I got dynamite. I’ve got a hell of a lot to fight. I’ll fight. I’ll fight, Ahhhhhh, Ahhhhhh, I will fight. I will fight, I will fight, I will fight.

18. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008

Rick Warren Can Either Come Out of His Closet, or Go Take a Hike

2. Warren has ALL the earmarks in his behavior that we saw with Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, Bob Allen, David Vitter, Jimmy Swaggart, et al. Look at his history… where have you heard ALL this before?

If this dude isn’t found in a bathroom with a wide stance and a hooker in the next year, someone’s not doing their job. Paging Jeff Gannon!

I have a different nomination, if Obama would like to take a second look.

Of course, my first choice would be an The Giant Spaghetti Monster. But if you have to go X-tian for the inauguration, how about Reverend Angela Denise Davis, a black Southern pastor, graduate of Vanderbilt divinity school, who belongs to CLOUT: Christian Lesbians OUT: “proudly progressive, actively anti-racist, creatively spiritual, milagro-bound.”

I’d go to one of her services in a minute!

19. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008

the latest Perrin piece inspired me to go lookin':

Has anyone seen Candy Slice?

20. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008
21. Intermittent Bystander - 19 December 2008

19 and 20 – Very interesting . . . I was away for those years and missed most of that the first time around.

22. Intermittent Bystander - 19 December 2008

PS: Please forgive me but I think I’ll click on Jim Jones’ suicide tape some other time.

::Searches for appropriate smiley, and reverts to basics::
:)

I have to decide whether to go to a church this very weekend . . . some friends are involved in a special concert. If I’m not mistaken, avoiding the sermon or whatever would be impossible.

23. marisacat - 19 December 2008

15

not good news

24. Intermittent Bystander - 19 December 2008

I forget the denomination. Nothing too flashy, thank goodness.

25. Intermittent Bystander - 19 December 2008

23 – No. Nauseating, really.

26. bayprairie - 19 December 2008

Brown asks state high court to overturn Prop. 8

(12-19) 19:43 PST SAN FRANCISCO — State Attorney General Jerry Brown, in a surprise turnabout, asked the California Supreme Court on Friday to overturn Proposition 8, saying the voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage violates basic rights guaranteed in the state Constitution.

:::snip:::

Fundamental rights in the state Constitution, including the right to marry that the state’s high court has recognized, “become a dead letter if they can just be amended” by popular vote, Brown said.

fucking A!!!!!!

people taking to the streets made CA justice refocus? if so losing the defeatist democratic party bought-off leadership might have just gotten some results.

27. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008

I decided to put something up to say goodbye to that fucker Paul Weyrich over at Breakfast in the Ruins. Beware … I have to surrender my “liberal” membership card because I’m not respectful or tolerant of the aformentioned dead motherfucker.

I have to decide whether to go to a church this very weekend . . . some friends are involved in a special concert.

I love churches and gospel music (bluegrass, country and African American versions thereof) … though I always find it sad that people don’t realize that they’re celebrating the goodness in themselves, that they hate human beings so much that they can only find that transcendent good in some outside force to be worshipped. So much joy and beauty directed at Someone who doesn’t exist … so I enjoy the spaces and absorb the music knowing that it was the actual human creators of it who are really the source of the good captured therein, NOT some hoary imaginary daddy.

The Baha’i temple north of Chicago and St. Patrick’s in NYC are awash in transcendent beauty, and in both it is in spite of the silly superstitions that built them.

28. bayprairie - 19 December 2008

IB said

I have to decide whether to go to a church this very weekend . . . some friends are involved in a special concert. If I’m not mistaken, avoiding the sermon or whatever would be impossible.

best way to handle the sermon is to do what 45% of the regular christians do.

nod off!

29. bayprairie - 19 December 2008

of course i like to drink, then watch pat robertson for the entertainment value.

30. marisacat - 19 December 2008

wow… thanks for that bay… I hd a very disjointed day… and missed almost all the daily news………………

Fundamental rights in the state Constitution, including the right to marry that the state’s high court has recognized, “become a dead letter if they can just be amended” by popular vote, Brown said.

because with regard to what IB posted, none of the gay leadership in CA has changed at all. (Nor are they responsive t all to issues and criticism over the mess) To get it on the ballot in 2010, whcih the gay groups are talking about, I fear would be a loser, either naturally or contrived. earlier today I dropped in at Queerty for an interview iwth Geoff Kors who was one of the big whatevers at Equality CA… dull messy interview and thread full of “supporters”, etc. Very dispiriting.

It will need Jerry Brown, Herrera the city Atty here in SF and the CA SC to overturn it. the ballot route, imo limited and partially informed as it is… is just too sticky and messy.

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 December 2008

Good on Jerry Brown for doing that …

32. marisacat - 19 December 2008

This Week: Biden. Roundtable with Donna Brazile, Sam Donaldson, Cokie Roberts and George Will.

Fox News Sunday: Cheney.

Meet the Press: Condoleezza Rice. Roundtable with CNBC’s Erin Burnett, Chicago Sun-Times’ Carol Marin, NBC’s Andrea Mitchell and NPR’s Michele Norris.

Late Edition: Reps. Frank, Cantor, former Clinton economic adviser Tyson, Carly Fiorina.

Face the Nation hosts Kerry Kennedy, Reps. Reynolds, Ackerman, King, and NYC Dept. of Education Chancellor Joel Klein

33. catnip - 19 December 2008

Yikes. (Just about.) Went shopping with the roomie and the bambino this evening to a nearby town (~20 km away). Got to the parking lot and found one of the back tires flat. No spare. Went shopping anyway and hobbled with the flashers on to a nearby garage to fill it up on the way out. It held on the highway all the way home, thankfully.

I had just been telling her when we pulled up to that store how I used to carry a lot of emerg supplies in my car when I lived in the country – a shovel, blankets, chocolates, candles, food etc. We laughed. But see? You just never know! Especially in this ridiculous kind of weather.

34. catnip - 19 December 2008

Just watching Blago. Didn’t some lower peon already plead guilty?

35. catnip - 19 December 2008

Blago + Yikes = this

36. marisacat - 19 December 2008

Good idea in what to keep in teh car. Esp in a place with tough winters. Esp if one might be broken down, in a car, with a small child.

Hot tea! Bundle up! It’s cold outside! Etc.!

37. catnip - 19 December 2008

I’m all bundled up and worn out now. Thanks. :)

***

With what’s happening with Warren and that Puritanic Prop 8, I hope to see one massive protest in DC on inauguration day against the new emporer and the rest of these bigots. This is really just unconscionable. As for Sully, stuff him in a closet somewhere until he comes to his senses. (Don’t hold your breath on that ever happening.)

38. bayprairie - 19 December 2008

I hope to see one massive protest in DC on inauguration day against the new emporer and the rest of these bigots.

i’ll settle for one well-aimed shoe

39. marisacat - 19 December 2008

Yeah I am sorry to reference Sully… but everyone has some writer, easily accessible on the netteries that drives them NUTS… and Sully is one that does that to me. he stands at a perfect nexus of thinking he is a Great Conservative (I have heard him say he can calm himself by thinking of Ronald Reagan, Holy Cow!) is somehow sent here to lecture us… will always defaut to organised christian religion but is whacko on muslims and “Islamofascism”… ONLY cares about HIS marriage and HIS HIV+ citizenship status AND still has breath to fucking lecture on abortion.

Sad to say the whole line up over at the Atlantic makes me NUTZ.

whew.

40. BooHooHooMan - 19 December 2008

for HC – responding from before,

CP is Code Pink, not the overt factional circlejerkery of CPUSA.
Why would 04 and 08 retread Candi “Emissaries” deal with them?
Thus the assortment of Umbrella orgs, Avakianites or otherwise,
you have your WCW here,
another BiG Huge Recently Coined Alliance there…etc…

You can come to your own conclusions about things

Again, Medea, CP as an Org, Cindy CERTAINLY, Yearwood, Swanson, Kokesh, Debra Sweet, these are all People and Orgs who should be up for a Nobel Peace Prize .

But more of this is in store,
tho more diffuse , less predictable, less sacrificial.

The prob becomes complicated as radicalization will come from the Right as well, e.g. the next McVeigh, the militia types too are working on their brew, and frankly aren’t given to ethical considerations since their rationale lacks ethos to begin with…

There’s only so many digital beers one can have about it tho…

41. catnip - 19 December 2008

38. i’ll settle for one well-aimed shoe

Ha! :)

42. marisacat - 19 December 2008

Stiletto… tho I’d ssettle for a plain old high heel.

43. BooHooHooMan - 19 December 2008

So would il Papa

44. catnip - 19 December 2008

So, is this like Pie Wars: GLTB Edition?

I haven’t checked for any GBCW diaries yet.

45. catnip - 19 December 2008

One digital beer for Boo HooHoo there, waiter.

46. marisacat - 19 December 2008

Bigots have no place in our progressive community. — Dkos diary linked by catnip.

DKos diarists need to stop lying.

A WHOLE diary to say “some of my very best friends are were and always will be gay”. It sounds so Friday night at the Markos Ranchh

47. Hair Club for Men - 19 December 2008

CP is Code Pink, not the overt factional circlejerkery of CPUSA.

Ah. That makes sense, although, once again, the CPUSA is behind UFPJ.

Hillary doesn’t get protested that much, although I don’t think Code Pink is keeping the lid on it and I don’t think it has much to do with Obama. I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that the far right’s stalking of the Clintons in the 1990s has still left them with a bit of a shield against the “left’s” hostility.

Debra Sweet and Sunsara Taylor continuing to shill for Bob Avakian just seems bizarre to me since I know both of them fairly well and neither of them has a cultist personality. Avakian should go on tour and speak for his own Hitchensesque anti-religious rants. The whole schtick about being afraid the government is going to kill him gets even weirder.

The RCP is dead though. It’s come apart at the seems.

There’s a lot going on in New York right now and a lot of it seems to have been inspired by the uprising in Greece.

There was a three day takeover at the New School.

There’s the ongoing protest against Lev Leviev (which have been remarkably successful in spite of the MSM blackout).

And last night about 100 people tried to march from Tompkins Square Park to the New School without a permit.

None of it’s being organized by Code Pink or UFPJ or International Answer. In fact, most of the organizers seem like people in their early 20s who are actively hostile to the big, top down anti-war organizations.

48. Hair Club for Men - 19 December 2008

BTW, has any journalist had the guts to call Obama on the “I’m only letting Rick Warren speak to be inclusive” line.

He wasn’t very inclusive when it came to Muslims.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91658107

Two Muslim women who attended Barack Obama’s event Monday in Detroit were told they couldn’t stand behind the candidate, Politico reported. One was told her head covering was an issue, and another was told by an Obama volunteer that for political reasons they didn’t want Muslims appearing with him on TV.

49. marisacat - 19 December 2008

I found Obama to be a passive racist w/r/t muslims. There was no mistaking his very clear desire, nearly frantic worry, that no one dare call him muslim and that it came close to calling him unclean.

Frankly like a lot of things, he muddled [his later selective] reality a lot by his early interviews about his childhood in Jakarta, as did his direct and forthright half sister.

He’s nto a muslim but there are several stories of his childhood in Jakarta and they don’t conform to the story line hewed to later.

Not that it matters.

50. catnip - 19 December 2008

Note her cognitive dissonance. In another diary about bigotry, noweasels wrote:

I am appalled that Barack Obama, for whom I gave up so many weekends knocking on doors, has decided to have Rick Warren deliver a prayer at his inauguration.

I do not like Rick Warren. I do not care that he gives up a bunch of his salary for charities (although this is a good thing to do). And I do not care that he has “gay friends” or helps those suffering from the ravages of the AIDS virus.

Rick Warren is a bigot. Anyone who believes that our gay or Lesbian brothers and sisters should be denied the right to marry is a bigot. Plain and simple. And there is no place in the Christianity that I practice and believe in for bigots.

But in the comments:

Let’s not lose focus on why 53% of Americans (12+ / 0-)

voted for change on Nov. 4.

http://www.yahoo.com/

I think President-elect Obama will have a his work cut out for him. I want to give the man the benefit of the doubt, at least until he proves that he is not worthy of my trust.

After all, you could be saying “Vice President-elect Palin today.

by good aint it vern on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 12:52:11 AM PST

*
Oh, I agree (11+ / 0-)

I am very excited about President-elect Barack Obama . . . I am not happy about Rick Warren, but I am sure not giving up on our President-elect by any means.

Thank you, Feeding America bloggers!

by noweasels on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 12:54:48 AM PST

51. catnip - 19 December 2008

47. UFPJ.

The United Farmers of PunJab?

52. Hair Club for Men - 19 December 2008

So I guess now that Obama’s cabinet is mostly filled out, you can make comparisons between him and Clinton.

He seems to be to the right of Clinton 92.

For the most part they’re similar, but Clinton did put a few token liberals in his cabinet (like Robert Reich) and Hillary did have Michael Lerner, not Rick Warren as her spirtual adviser.

I don’t know if Reich would get anywhere near Obama’s White House and Lerner certainly wouldn’t.

53. Hair Club for Men - 19 December 2008

The United Farmers of PunJab?

United for Peace and Justice. It’s one of the big anti-war umbrella oranizations (the other is International Answer). It’s considered “mainstream” but it’s also a front for the Communist Party USA (which is far, far to the right of Dennis Kucinich or Ralph Nader and is thoroughly embedded in the Democratic Party).

54. Hair Club for Men - 19 December 2008

There was no mistaking his very clear desire, nearly frantic worry, that no one dare call him muslim and that it came close to calling him unclean.

Well Muslims and gays are the two groups it’s acceptable to hate these days and sadly Obama doesn’t seem to have the same inclination as even (gag) Colin Powell does to challenge it.

55. marisacat - 19 December 2008

Please. Bill was a traingulating asshole… but there is not and will not be anyone like Jocelyn Elders – as we all know Bill and Hill turned on her, withdrew their support with not even a phone call (Dick M got a phone call) — NOR will there be anyone nominated to even approach Lani Guinier. Another that Bill and hill pulled the plug on with no phone call.

However they did indeed know them personally.. were FRIENDS.. and in Lani’s case for 20 + years.

obster does nto even have these sorts of people in his rolodex, imo. And I am sorry, years past, long ago days near fictional characters like Ayers and Wright and so on do not count. Talk about dilletants.

56. BooHooHooMan - 19 December 2008

Omigad I’m in love.
“..a shovel, blankets, chocolates, candles, food etc

Honey? I was just thinking…maybe we could
go out for the afternoon……

Can you make room for the bookcase, grille, Rototiller,
Barco-Lounger, Generator, Inflatable Football Player and Television? LOL.

57. marisacat - 19 December 2008

54

and women. As long as you dismiss them properly, restricting their sexuality.

Ob is good at dissing and distancing from all three. Over and over when he would list priest, minister, rabbi… IMAN was missing.

Such a fragile ”church going” black, at the end of the day.

58. marisacat - 19 December 2008

IMAM

I canot type.

59. marisacat - 19 December 2008

Reich maintains that NAFTA did not affect US jobs. He said it here in SF on Labor Day in 2006. EVEN our very DLC mayor, Gavin, nearly lost his jaw to the floor. He said, NAFTA affected jobs in SAN FRANCISCO. Reich again demurred.

And Lerner was a fuckign society gadfly. He was cut off, from what i heard, as he got too familiar. both in print (his newsletter) and in personal anecdotal representations of his closeness to Hillary.

60. Hair Club for Men - 19 December 2008

Ob is good at dissing and distancing from all three. Over and over when he would list priest, minister, rabbi… IMAN was missing.

Yes.

Obama is claiming to be “inclusive” by including a representative of the dominent religious and ethnic group in his inauguration.

By saying “oh there’s a place for people like Rick Warren in America too” he’s buying into the line that right wing White Anglo Saxon evangelical protests are “oppressed” in America. He’s parroting the religious right’s propaganda.

And the religious group that is genuinely shut out (Muslims), he has no place for.

61. Hair Club for Men - 19 December 2008

right wing White Anglo Saxon evangelical protests are “oppressed” in America

That’s “Protestants” not “protests.”

62. marisacat - 19 December 2008

54

Colin just wants the reinstatement to write another book. But i hink his advances of 6 mil and so on, those days are over. he has no desire to include muslims. In anything.

Fortunately it appears, so far, he is left out of the mittel mittel mittel brow line up Obster sees fit to throw up on the pretzel Etch a Sketch.

63. catnip - 20 December 2008

53. The United Farmers of PunJab?

United for Peace and Justice.
;)
:D

64. marisacat - 20 December 2008

right on cue… Charlie Rose has Gladwelll on……………………… he’ll get around to Obster… any minute now. he’s on expertise. and practise.

Etc. Well that leads to Obster. After you nod to Tiger.

65. catnip - 20 December 2008

56. Inflatable Football Player

Umm…?

66. Hair Club for Men - 20 December 2008

United for Peace and Justice.

United for Signs Behind Police Barricades

United for Permitted Marching in Circles

67. Hair Club for Men - 20 December 2008

BTW, did anybody else think it was just bizarre that Caroline Kennedy made one of her first big media appearances with Al Sharpton.

I’m not really a big Sharpton hater (I’m not a fan either) but he’s not that popular in New York state, especially in upstate New York.

I just don’t really see the point.

68. marisacat - 20 December 2008

Sharpton.. at some point during the Kerry run he got put on the payroll. The Dem party payroll. They seem happy to have him as a gate keeper, supermarket checker, what ever the job is.

He let some edgey comments fly in the press during the 2004 GE run and within a couple days they hired him on. Fee based service. I assume he still is. MSNBC hs for years now intro’d him using ‘Democratic” in the descriptive intro.

My guess, no need to go see him… but then he would bad mouth her in NYC. Would it matter? they seem to want to play this dumb game.

As I said the other day, they seem to like the asshole asp at their bosom.

69. Hair Club for Men - 20 December 2008

My guess, no need to go see him… but then he would bad mouth her in NYC. Would it matter? they seem to want to play this dumb game.

It still makes no sense. She doesn’t have to win over the African American vote. Patterson just has to appoint her. NYC blacks aren’t going to vote Republican in 2010. And this will hurt Kennedy with upstate white conservatives. It just seems odd that Al would pop up now in this of all places.

BTW, Tweety asked Kerry Kennedy if Caroline were pro-choice and Kerry tried to weasel out of the question.

70. marisacat - 20 December 2008

I don’t think Al ever went away. I think it is unneeded and a mistake. Somebody does not. Ishay maybe? WHo knows. May she fall flat on her face, frankly.

71. catnip - 20 December 2008

Wherever there’s a mic, there’s Al Sharpton.

72. marisacat - 20 December 2008

I would be REALLY surprised if CKS can even articulate the “safe” version, “pro choice” and say as little as possible beyond that.

She’s Catholic. And it’s nto like the Kennedys are liberal. They are a big wall to getting stuff done.

There was a NY NARAL person who blew her top when they endorsed Ob when the primary was still running. Really angry and reactive, she got roundly laughed at a dismissed. maria Pappas was the name as I recall. I put her quotes here, as she literally spoke out of school. Aoubt what a mess Teddy is for womens’ issues and rights and so on and ticked off a list of stuff he waffled on, had to be cajoled over.. etc. Long lsit of basics.

I always like it when someone breaks ranks, speaks outside of the locked classroom.

73. Hair Club for Men - 20 December 2008

Really angry and reactive, she got roundly laughed at a dismissed. maria Pappas was the name as I recall.

This one?

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/phoebe_fay/2008/05/11-week/

74. marisacat - 20 December 2008

maria pappas:

Maria Pappas, Head of New York NOW, On Ted Kennedy:

“Women have just experienced the ultimate betrayal. Senator Kennedy’s endorsement of Hillary Clinton’s opponent in the Democratic presidential primary campaign has really hit women hard.”

She said a lot more than that … she hit a fax machine late at night (as I recall).

75. Hair Club for Men - 20 December 2008
76. BooHooHooMan - 20 December 2008

Yep, a whole lot of coordinated SYFPH, Gays
on DK today….90 % of the Rec List and Diary roll…
That coddled POS Dana Houle shat something like
“These Are The RULZ Folks.”
FFS, the dailykossers have that misogynististic shyster Pastor Dan for regular autorecommended “online” services Every.Sunday.,
real ones at their meetups……

Before it was pushed off the roll by pieces by DH, Jeff Lieber,
and other Toadies,
I caught a piece Entitled , aptly, Vomitting up the Kool-Aid
@ 150 comments last I checked..RecList? No.

Too bad whoever wrote it is just another shnoob.
He ended his piece with

I look forward to the day when
Barack Obama starts reaching out to his base.

Oh but HE IS, precious. THE GULLIBLE.
Those who confuse “the Base” or Ob as True Master.
These idiots envisioned themselves in leisurely
69 with THE ONE, a mutually satisfying experience,
He as their Master, yet they as His…

WRONGO.

In the diary, That dry blowjob
and short of a half wit “homogenius” was kluck-klucking around,
so surprised he got Ob-poked in the eye…
A stonewaller is he, brave Stonewaller he is NOT.

77. marisacat - 20 December 2008

It’s a little clearer now.. I guess she flipped out when Teddy and assorted Kennedys endorsed Obster.

I had remembered it that when one of the big orgs flipped to Obster when the primaries were not over yet.

Yes well, blacks were allowed to go for Ob at up at 96% but women were to be ecumenical. Or some such shit.

So much pandering and owning and slap downs and send ups and and and.

78. Hair Club for Men - 20 December 2008

http://www.observer.com/2008/politics/nys-n-o-w-chairwoman-look-issues-not-gender

Pappas said Palin’s nomination “is an obvious play for the support that Hillary Clinton got in the primaries. Unfortunately, Republicans are capitalizing on it. If Hillary Clinton was on the Democratic ticket, this probably would not have happened.”

79. marisacat - 20 December 2008

75

Ok that is her:

MARCIA A. PAPPAS

President NOW-NYS

Albany

As for Kathleen Parker.. (Pappas is responding to KP criticism of her in the linked item) … LOL… her sort (Buckley progeny) imo carefully played their cable TV talk show bookings futures in switching to Ob. And trashing Palin.

I have no idea what KP really thinks. She also did the now famous “oogedy boogedy” assessment of religion in the R party.

LOL… she should have whiplash — in a fair world. Or jsut a good old neck snap. Snap right off.

80. Hair Club for Men - 20 December 2008

Profile of Pappas and Jessica Valenti.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/nyregion/01bigcity.html

81. marisacat - 20 December 2008

78

well I happen not to agree with that. I DID agree iwth and find interesting her full lash out at TK.

Sorry too far back and not googling tonight to fill out the blanks.

82. Hair Club for Men - 20 December 2008

Hmm. And the name Jessica Valenti unfortunately caused me to Google up the silliest fake controversy in the history of the “netroots”.

I was wondering why it sounded familiar.

The lunch with Bill Clinton.

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2006/09/bill-clinton-lunching-with-bloggers.html

83. marisacat - 20 December 2008

oh yes Valenti. Another one like Amanda. One for all and all for the Dems.

Yes, front and center at the class picture at the all whtie luncheon in Harlem.

84. BooHooHooMan - 20 December 2008

Catnip,
56. Inflatable Football Player……. Umm…?

LOL. ….LINK.

LOL. I was wondering if you ever heard of them, whether they have ‘em up your way. They’re these really tacky yard monstrosities you put up outside or on your deck etc during football games. Some nuts leave ‘em up inflated all year long till they wear out..

Look, It wasn’t like I was asking to have it inflated INSIDE the car..
I just figured if you had an errand to do , while you were doing whatever, I could be set up outside, with the grille, the Barco-lounger, the generator and TV.

I just figured The bookcase
and The Inflatable would add a touch of class.

And you wanna pass this all up? LOL.

85. Hair Club for Men - 20 December 2008

Yes, front and center at the class picture at the all whtie luncheon in Harlem.

Which is why there was such a well coordinated little bitchfest with Ann Althouse.

Althouse gave them the opportunity to kick up sand, blow smoke, and in general distract people from the real issue, the connection of the “netroots” with the Democratic Party.

86. marisacat - 20 December 2008

the connection of the “netroots” with the Democratic Party.

anyone missing that is not alive. If they are trolling the political sites and online that is. Keyboarding from the coffin, or soemthing. It is very evident and hardly denied.

87. Hair Club for Men - 20 December 2008

Jessica Valenti went to the Peter Daou lunch with Bill and Peter Daou was Hillary’s lacky.

By the time you get to the NY Times article on her and Pappas, she’s definitely on the Obama side.

The photo editing is pretty interesting at the NY Times article.

They shot Pappas in very harsh outdoor lighting and didn’t lighten up the shadows around her neck.

They shot Valenti inside in softer lighting with her holding a glass of wine.

Anybody’s going to look better in softer lighting.

So the article was a hit piece on Pappas with Valenti used as the (probably unwitting) prop.

I don’t know if it was a pro-Obama piece so much as an older feminist bad younger feminist good piece.

88. Hair Club for Men - 20 December 2008

I guess that photographer just said “you just pose right in front of that big ugly try.” Fill Flash? Ah. Who needs it?

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/02/01/nyregion/01bigcity_CA0.ready.html

89. marisacat - 20 December 2008

I don’t know if it was a pro-Obama piece so much as an older feminist bad younger feminist good piece.

Which def played out in the media toward the end of the primaries. (And has played out at blogs and I assume other fora)

IMO women got shafted. Not that I supported, as I have put it, EITHER of the pieces of merch that the Dem party dragged out to the curb forcibly presented to the assembled, and said, PICK.

Mugs game all of it.

90. Hair Club for Men - 20 December 2008

That’s “pose in front of that big ugly TREE”

91. BooHooHooMan - 20 December 2008

IMO women got shafted. Not that I supported, as I have put it, EITHER of the pieces of merch that the Dem party dragged out to the curb forcibly presented to the assembled, and said, PICK.

Mugs game all of it.

True. But Pappas is a Broker,and .misread the popular trend as much as Penn or Wolfson. When she said Hillary’s treatment “the equivalent of psychological gang bang” ., Ka-Blooey. Dumb. She Should have gone with water torture on Chicago Pols headed straight to the Heart of Obs credibility Myth…

LOL, as if THAT tell all on Chicago wouldn’t blow the whole Democratic scam…that they’re all just MIC-ConAllds franchisees competing for a better cut..

92. BooHooHooMan - 20 December 2008

As it turned out Hillary has fared quite well…

93. marisacat - 20 December 2008

All I agreed with Pappas on was the list of stuff that Teddy Kennedy has stalled on, been a problem on, where he could nto be relied on. (I will find it tomorrow, too late tonight)

That was it.

The women were on their own with Hillary. And it’s not like the orgs are innocent.

I have posted several things in the just past few days indicating they have caved ahead of time to the Obster. A long long list of things they will nto seek overturn on, from Hyde Amendment onward.

94. BooHooHooMan - 20 December 2008

93 Oh definitely. My tangent is wading thru the mugs game such as it is.

95. BooHooHooMan - 20 December 2008

heres a head scratcher..
In retrospect why didn’t he put Hillary on the ticket?.
Go with the “Good game” “Tough Fight” “Let’s GoGet Em ” Bullshit up front, and all that.

Seriously, it’s not like they didn’t have the votes….Frankly, from what I can tell, it would have netted them as many in the Prezzy … the Obsters are so pliable,where would they have gone? … Swing vote was going D anyways ..

I dunno , not in a position to know, but it seems to be Two concerns…Not knowing if the Bill Found Money could be kept out , pending the Financial “Surprises” {Riiiight}to come, and/or the downticket dynamics would have shifted significantly…
Not like they are going to use said Majority on the Hill other than a bigger cut of their MIC Masters Bonus Plan. Moreso the latter I’d think , cause it’s certainly not like Ob or Teh Clinton have a problem with striking the untenable position..I don’t think they really would have had as much problem rationalizing animosity from the Primary.

96. Light from above… « Marisacat - 20 December 2008

[...] Pappas (raised in classic disjointed fashion, by me, in the previous thread): That’s a far cry from what Pappas said about Kennedy, in [...]

97. marisacat - 20 December 2008

gnu thred…………………..

LINK

………….. :lol: ……………….

98. marisacat - 20 December 2008

95

what I think it was was issues with the donor list. ONE, getting to it fast enough. They would need it by August, roughly. And things were much rougher (I am guessing) with Clinton camp at that point…

AND I think when Goergia broke, elements in the party (he is so not personally powerful) forced Biden on teh ticket. I don’t much like Obster, but I think he has an idea that Biden is a fucked mess. But again, no real personal power. party, elements in it, ruled.

I do know one rather charming story about Ob… he dragged in characteristically late to the Foreign Affairs committe hearing one day, soon after he got to DC, took his seat… and Biden was droning on. Drone, drone………….. he passed a note to two young aides seated behind him… as Biden droned and (I guess they were young, the version I read indicated they were thrilled to be asked to do something for ObBaby) the note read:

Shoot. me. now.

99. marisacat - 20 December 2008

oh and remember they did not even bother to vet HIllary for VPer. Not even to chin chuck her followers… Interesting. I mean all you do is forward the forms, ask for them back hand them off to whomever, esp if the invite is not serious…

100. Intermittent Bystander - 20 December 2008

Madman and bayprairie – Appreciate the words of wisdom on churchgoing. (Haha! File that under “unexpected sentences typed on a blog”!) Agree it’s possible to find one’s own path to appreciation of these things, when circumstances require.

But now it appears I had the date wrong, and the service will indeed be Sunday morning, smack dab in the middle of our NEXT major snow emergency, which starts after midnight tonight. (Meanwhile, the last one is still finishing its flurries this am.) Suspect that will decide it, for me.

Things look pretty hairy weatherwise, right through Christmas here, with just about every type of frozen/unfrozen precip expected to ice the holiday cake.

Aargh! Be careful out there, frosty travelers!


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