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Occupation 25 July 2006

Posted by marisacat in Beirut, Big Box Blogs, DC Politics, Democrats, Israel/AIPAC, WAR!.

Israeli Military Outpost

Not to be too flip (considering some of what I read around BlogSnot Land, not to worry!) but read a certain way in the middle of the night, this from the NYT gave me some of the few laughs in days.

The United States has ruled out its soldiers’ participating, NATO says it is overstretched, Britain feels its troops are overcommitted and Germany says it is willing to participate only if Hezbollah, the Lebanese militia that it would police, agrees to it, a highly unlikely development.

“All the politicians are saying, ‘Great, great’ to the idea of a force, but no one is saying whose soldiers will be on the ground,” said one senior European official.

“Everyone will volunteer to be in charge of the logistics in Cyprus.”

Support, strong support, words of praise for the collective punishment baby juggernaut Israel has sent into Southern Lebanon (as they shell into the north as well) but Noooo!… don’t ask us – any of us! -to share a war theatre, battle space, nor a cease-fire (there won’t be any) nor an occupation of southern Lebanon with Israel.

Last grafs:

The challenge of creating a viable international force to secure Israel’s border with Lebanon was captured by Nahum Barnea, a columnist for the Israeli daily newspaper Yediot Aharonot. The European foreign ministers were enthusiastic, he said.

O very.

“They only had one small condition — for the force to be made up of soldiers from another country,” Mr. Barnea wrote.

“The Germans recommended France; the French recommended Egypt, and so on. It is doubtful whether there is a single country in the West currently volunteering to lay down its soldiers on Hezbollah’s fence.”

hmm. “Hezbollah’s fence?”  NO. I think that they don’t want to occupy Arab, insurgent land with ISRAEL.  Israel’s fence.  Let’s be clear.

I’m sure we will send Cash.

Via Danny Schechter who is UP!, this from the JPost… Occupation, Baby!

OC Northern Command Maj.-Gen. Udi Adam acknowledged in a briefing at Northern Command headquarters in Safed on Sunday afternoon that the commander of the IDF’s civil administration unit had already begun preparations toward the possibility of instituting a military administration in areas captured by the IDF over the last week.

According to Adam, “Certain units who will give us breathing space have been called up, including the commander of that unit.” The unit’s activation, however, would only take place following comprehensive consultations, he said.

Comprehensive. One of those words “leaders” toss out, to seem in charge, awake, aware. Rather than merely in place.

And, [thanks to observer] Kos was on Nightline last night with Jake Tapper…

I say Kos should keep talking. Ab-so-lute-ly. Makes so little sense and is so easily pleased to speak of lui-meme (well they do ask him, I realise that) or to offer gibberish as [non]sense. Lots of tired homilies and retreads. Keep it up fella.

And he seems so fond of Bush 1. Why did he bother to change parties? Rather like the little clutch of … [confused??] partisans I ran into in a diary once at Dkos, calling Nixon charming.  Really.  And much sloberation for Reagan.

I mean, you have to wonder.

Especially as it was a diary chock-a-block with Clark supporters… and the little Nixon afficianado was an oppo researcher (not a good one, he said in Feb of ’04 that the Republicans would be able to do “nothing” with Kerry’s service.  Oh ye of very little faith…) at the Clark HQ in LR.

Here, have a Trojan.  No no. Nothing to unroll!  What ever are you thinking?

Feed it some hay, keep the game going.

MOULITSAS: Well, it wasn’t — it wasn’t me. I mean, that’s …

TAPPER: Well, it’s called the YearlyKos.

MOULITSAS: Well, unfortunately. The organizers wanted that name.

TAPPER: Well, they wanted it for a reason.

Tapper is a smart man.  I’d suggest Kos read that interview again.

TAPPER: What’s the lesson for Joe Lieberman from this, no matter what happens, whether he wins this primary or whether he wins the general election? What’s the lesson you want Joe Lieberman to have learned?

MOULITSAS: Well, no matter how much I would write about the race — and remember, all I can do is blog about it. All I can do is write about a race …

TAPPER: And tell people to send money.

MOULITSAS: A couple, you know, a couple of tens of thousands of dollars, Lieberman is going …

TAPPER: And do a campaign commercial for his primary opponent.

MOULITSAS: Well, nobody knows who Markos Moulitsas …

TAPPER: Well, if that were true, then he wouldn’t have done a campaign commercial with you — Ned Lamont — right?

MOULITSAS: It was fun. It was a fun …

TAPPER: I’m just saying you’ve done more than just write about it.

There will be more….


Update, 11:30 am

Dahr Jamail is UP at TO, he has retained his same translator, an Iraqi, tho in Demascus now for two weeks.  Thru conversations with Abu Talat, a look at surviving, day by day, in Baghdad.

I know this is not what CSTAR mentioned wanting, a map tracking the fighting… I am guessing he/she would like what I would like to find, something as defined as a grid of the areas.  But for now, from the BBC, link to the page with a bgger map and some updates…

   bbc 6/25/06

Foreign Policy in Focus, link [thanks Madman} to Stephen Zunes article, Congress and the Israeli Attack on Lebanon: A Critical Reading, taking text from the lovely piece of scheisse that the House voted on recently (July 20, 410 – 8, endorses Israel’s continuing operations in Lebanon and Gaza), and replies to selected grafs…

Whereas the House of Representatives has repeatedly called for full implementation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1559;

The House of Representatives never called for the full implementation of UN Security Council resolution 425 and nine subsequent resolutions calling for Israel’s withdrawal from Lebanon during Israel’s 22-year occupation of the southern part of that country.

Nor has the House ever called for the full implementation of UN Security Council resolutions 446, 451, 465, and 472 calling on Israel to withdraw its illegal settlements from the occupied West Bank and Golan Heights or dozens of other UN Security Council resolutions currently being violated by Israel, Morocco, Turkey, Pakistan, or other U.S. allies.

As in the Bush administration, there appears to be a strong bipartisan sense in Congress that UN Security Council resolutions should only apply to governments and movements the United States does not like.

Good to go!   And should things go really badly, they can claim, (see IWR, October 11, 2002) that they “authorised” only judicious use, to threaten, they can say they did not understand that Bush, er, well, that would be Israel this go round!, would crash the god damned fucking car. 

And of course here they can all smile and nod and say they authorised support.  They did not see the car, nor the driver.  They did not see the road.  Nor the bodies.  They saw nothin’.

They miss a lot, those elected people.


UPDATE: 1:00 pm

Speaking of elected.  Or those who were once elected.  I got an email this am from the DSCC, apparently signing up at the blog a couple of years ago means I get these emails…. 

The title is “Craven”.  I did wonder what that crowd would consider craven.  Won’t spend too much time on this as I could not find the text at their web site… but here is a snip (emphasis is mine):

This fall, Republicans will impugn the patriotism of our candidates because they fear us.

They fear Democrats because we speak the truth and because we refuse to sit by idly while George W. Bush makes a blatant power grab under the auspices of “Executive Privilege.”

With only 100 days left until the elections, Republican incumbents are already using their huge cash reserves to unleash baseless attack ads against our Democratic challengers. If Democrats don’t have the money to hit the airwaves and respond, we cannot win.

The signature?  Tom Daschle.  Lordy, they don’t fear Democrats.  Not in the least.


UPDATE:  1:30 pm

AP via Truth Out, on the use of White Phosphorous in the Israeli war on Southern lebanon.

Jawad Najem, a surgeon at the hospital, said patients admitted Sunday had burns from phosphorous incendiary weapons used by Israel. The Geneva Conventions ban using white phosphorus as an incendiary weapon against civilian populations and in air attacks against military forces in civilian areas. Israel said its weapons comply with international law.

    “Mahmoud Sarour, 14, was admitted to the hospital yesterday and treated for phosphorous burns to his face,” Najem said. Mahmoud’s 8-month-old sister, Maryam, suffered similar burns on her neck and hands when an Israeli rocket hit the family car.

    The children were with their father, mother and other relatives when the car was hit by an Israeli missile. Their father died instantly.

    The Sarour family was evacuated from Tyre to Cyprus on Monday aboard a ferry chartered by Germany.

    The Sarours had to go to the port by taxi because the Lebanese Red Cross suspended operations outside Tyre after Israeli jets blasted two ambulances with rockets, said Ali Deebe, a Red Cross spokesman in Tyre.


Diplomacy faltering looms in Rome.  Who had thought otherwise?  From TimesOnline:

But Mr Olmert pledged to carry on the offensive against Hezbollah guerrillas and a senior Israeli army officer said later that Israeli forces might have to move as far as 70km (40 miles) into Lebanon to destroy Hezbollah positions.

The US Secretary of State then moved on to Ramallah for a meeting with Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian President, to discuss that month-long Israeli offensive in the Gaza Strip.

Shopkeepers in the West Bank city shut their doors to protest against the visit, accusing her of siding with Israel. … A crowd of thousands gathered to chant:

“Rice, Rice, you are a crow, what misery you bring with you.”

“She is persona non grata in Palestine,” said Khaled Rajab, a taxi-driver, of the US Secretary of State. “We have nothing personal against her, but against the blind bias towards Israel.”


Billmon tracks what the House of Saud is saying.  [thanks D Throat]   Wish they believed anything!

And he adds a yummy tidbit (I had decided not to even fuss in that direction… but happy to piggy-back!):

Those who thought it might turn out otherwise (I’m looking in your direction Booman) probably should have remembered the old Arab proverb: My brother and me against my cousins, my cousins and me against my village, my village and me against my tribe, my tribe and me against the world.

And also a snip, via Billmon from Angry Arab:

The Angry Arab notes, correctly, that one of the sickest/funniest aspects of this whole farce has been watching the neocons and the pro-Israel bloggers fellate the House of Saud — that feudal hotbed of Islamofascism that miraculously transformed itself into the best Sunni friend Israel never had.

Presumably it will now be allowed to revert to its good old Islamofascist self again.

Ever flexible under those robes!




1. D. Throat - 25 July 2006

Tasini … Hilliary’s nemesis had a good diary up earlier in Blogsnotopia in regards the the usual banalities seeping out of the DLC… or course the usual suspects attacked it immdiately..

The Democratic Leadership Council has, once again, shown why it cannot be trusted with the future of America’s workers. It has rolled out yet another poll-tested, slogan-filled program/manifesto that is neither bold, visionary, and, more important, simply perpetuates a massive fraud on hard-working Americans.

Yesterday, the DLC unveiled “Saving the American Dream,” which claims to be a plan to save the middle-class. And to deal with the economy we face today, what does the DLC propose as its key solution? College. Yes, apparently, the main reason Americans are struggling with anemic wage hikes, no pensions, dwindling health care coverage, record-high debt and poor, secure and decent-paying job opportunities is that we are too dumb.

Also I would like to add that the reason that an increasing number of people can not longer afford college is because of the tax cuts that Democrats are so proud to be in “bi partisanship” with the GOP. Cutting back on taxes means that the states have had to make up for the shortcomes…where ever…. like RAISING PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITY FEES… but Al From doesn’t see that part…

Go to college Americans and save yourselves… and while you are there… EAT CAKE.

2. D. Throat - 25 July 2006

Okay I could only look at the video for 1 minute before I had to turn it off (the boy makes me ill… same reaction as watching Bush or Cheney…I geuss I am allegic to liars)… but I see Kos is finding his “Latino” rutz… does he really live in the middle of a bodega in Berkley???

3. marisacat - 25 July 2006

hmmm not sure where he lives in the E Bay since they bought. LOL Not like any of the many realities of Berkeley penetrated when he rented the much talked about little cottage.

Have to laugh.

The more I catch his messy language, that boy is heading back to all but re-register.

”Libertarian” is code for ”Not a Democrat”.

And I see still trading on ”Liberal”.

The Republican market was choking on over utilisation, most sub markets were staked out, is my guess. And the usually disorganised, fracturing from “out of power” and Bill and McAuliffe using the DNC for their private games… Dems and frittering “liberals” were ripe for some ram it at them ”messaging”.

It is a flat pancake. However many fluffers and operatives man the threads.

4. D. Throat - 25 July 2006

Via Billmon

Revolt of the Puppets

The Cheney administration’s Arab “allies” appear to have had enough of Condi’s natural childbirth method. They’re screaming for an epidural:

Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah warned on Tuesday of war in the Middle East if Israel continues attacking Lebanon and the Palestinians, in an apparent appeal to key ally the United States to end the fighting.

Saudi Arabia warns everybody that if the peace option fails because of Israeli arrogance, there will be no other option but war,” state-owned media quoted the king as saying.

5. marisacat - 25 July 2006

let me read Billmon, but doesn’t that strike you as words for the domestic (Arabia) market. And whatever they nod over as we talk is the reality.

I think S Lebanon has been more or less abandoned. Egelund says things, the UN is tracking IDF in Gaza and Lebanon, but … nobody stops Israel. The mean bully has the Big Mean BUlly behind him.

6. NYCO - 25 July 2006

So did anyone see The Daily Show last night? Jon Stewart on Condi’s “natural birth pangs” … “And that last contraction took out an entire city block!”

7. NYCee - 25 July 2006

You said it, Sistuh.

However, the revised Saudi message is at least coordinating the palace droning with the town square, or “Arab street,” which have been terribly at odds since several leaders (Jordan, Egypty, SA) decided to “sensibly” side with Bush and focus most of their finger wagging at Hezbollah. But it was always more like, fucking Hezbollah, why did you go and stir up the bully! Not, there is no bully. That is for the US and Israel to say. That is for the bullies to say. (Who you callin bully, fuckah?!)

Who is buying it anymore? Well, they can say it to each other, cant they, on that ever-eroding little island theyve staked out, all by their two-as-onesome lonesomes.

Never mind “under God.” It’s shit like this that made me swear off the pledge when I was just a young ‘un. But burn the flag? Oh no, Hillary. I would never do that! Goodness gracious, burning bodies can be ignored, it’s okay you approve of hundreds of thousands of those. But the precious stars and stripes! Dont. Even. Go. There.

8. NYCee - 25 July 2006

God, that Kos klip is a fucking mess.

“We’re talking about some of the two biggest issues.”

“Some” of the two biggest issues: Social Security and Iraq.

Yeah, Iraq is so big to the Kos Krew that they cant say “Its not just about Iraq” enough when it comes to Lamont. (So then… as Tapper asked, WHAT? What else?)


Oh. Yes! That is what I think of when I think of DK. Crystallized values, comin at you like a Mac Truck between the eyes.

Kos often brings tears to my eyes as he demonstrates such deep values on one of the “some of the two biggest issues,” that of preventive, illegal, bloody WAR. His continual posts about the suffering of Iraqis, the deaths, the maimings – the numbers killed…. how he ties it in with prior US interventions, overthrows, coups … he really is quite the voice! I wonder why he doesnt contribute to antiwar.com? I mean, it would tie in well with his libertarian strain, no? And wasnt he was the FIRST ONE to speak out publicly against the war? Im sure they would be honored to have their new libertarian friend join them. (Lol, DHinMI wrote a diary warning everyone to steer clear of that site … I think it was an antisemitism 5-alarmer.)

I know I and many others were shaking in our boots till he came out and made it possible to speak out. Since then: May a hundred antiwar groups bloom. Actually, I think he’s been sold short on his absence on Lebanon. I imagine he doesnt speak to the suffering of the thousands of Lebanese victims (displaced, dismembered, dead) because he is too choked up, dont you?

And Joe was the reason we went to war on Iraq. That’s why Bush kissed him, you know. Without Joe, Saddam would be picnicking on the banks of the Tigris and Bush would be one frustrated man. Cheney probably would be a goner, wouldve suffered fatal heart failure. Damn you, Lieberman!!! (Forget the others who went along… Dont you just know that but for Joe they wouldve stood up and NAYed that damn resolution! Pssst… Joe is the ANTIchrist.)

And so monstrously big is what Lieberman did or said on SS that every day I wake up and say, thank you, sweet Jesus, that Joe didnt get to single handedly destroy my golden years. Im glad Kos has brought this to my attention, because, as I recall, Ben Nelson was the last one standing ready to whore for the GOP on SS. Right there on a Sunday show, he was showcased as the lone Mr. LetsMakeA-Deal Democrat. This was when the Bush plan was already seriously gasping its last breath. Glad Ive been set straight, because other than that, Ben Nelson is my idol. The man knows how to vote like a pig and shut up about it.

Harry Reid was so awe-inspiring too, saving SS like he did. Getting UNITY. He really established the fightin Dems’ liberal bona fides. What a Nuevo FDR, saving a program that was freshly progressive, oh, almost 3/4 of a century past when Viejo FDR initiated it. How fucking forward of him. Renewed my faith in the party, it did. What will they do next! The Centrists must be going ballistic over these fringe Reid lefties gone wild in Congress. How will they rein them in?

By the way, what do his new best buds, the LIBERTARIANS, say about this “some of the two biggest issues” – Social Security? Oh yeah, you bet they just love it. Very big to them, the social safety net.

Like I said, what a fucking mess.

9. marisacat - 25 July 2006

One thing I have noticed, after much nasty disdain for protest and demonstrations, Kos and Whackians seem fine with the anti-Joe protests and have nothing but luv luv luv for the papier mache puppets of the Greatest Kiss Ever.

Depends on the day and the cash up front I guess.

Roll that Trojan right on in.. ! Kaine Casey Webb, Massa, Clark, roll them on in!

Call them ”Libertarian”! Call them ”Kennedy era” Dems! Before Civil Rights! Before Roe v Wade. (BTW, Kos, just don’t get an abortion yourself… that is all you need do).

Why little Kos. You Republican. And not a liberal one either.

10. D. Throat - 25 July 2006

the revised Saudi message is at least coordinating the palace droning with the town square, or “Arab street,” which have been terribly at odds since several leaders (Jordan, Egypty, SA) decided to “sensibly” side with Bush and focus most of their finger wagging at Hezbollah.

Remember these statements by Jordan, Egypt and SA were said at the beginning of the fighting… Israel then decided to be greedy and bomb everything in sight… backing the first ever friendly Arab allies (in an Israeli conflict with Arabs) into a corner… leaving them no option but the retract their initial dismay at Hizbollah and return to their usual anti-Israel rhetoric. Israel is totally to blame for this.

BBC had an ADULT interview on Hardtalk with four speakers an American, Jordanian, British Lord and M. Brown of the UN… the Jordanian came right out and said that it was Isreal and the US’s actions and talk that have caused them the most damage at trying to be moderate and that the only thing Israel suceeded in was radicalizing more arabs and conjoining Sunnis and Shias against Israel. They also mentioned the lack of reality the Bush administration has on the situation that has come about due to their lack of engagement for the past 5 years on a real peace plan for Palestine. It is not yet up on the website but should be up soon.(BBC Hardtalk) for M. Brown and this Lord dude to be on this means that it was sanctioned by Blair…

Egeland… is abrupt and always was… he is right… but I do not see it as abandoning S Lebanon.

11. NYCee - 25 July 2006

Yes, Marisacat, the disdain for protest (and all other things not approved and prescribed) is quite unfortunate. It takes a toll. It is like water smoothing-smoothing-smoothing down the rough edges. Incrementally. Bit by bit. You know those rough edges — the ones that actually disturb the politicians into taking meaningful action, into bucking the godawful status quo and thus changing it…?

It is especially unfortunate in this country, where people seriously need a kick in the populist ass, not a dampening of it.

Poor Chirac and de Villepin v their masses. They didnt stand a chance getting that jobs’ law change thru. The French havent yet been Kossified. Thank goodness.

They dont empty their wallets for Candidate X on a hope and a prayer… they fill the streets with outrage and relentless determination. And they get their benefits. And they get their pass on Coalition of the Unwilling. They dont idolize politicians. They look at issues.

They would never have tolerated that electoral hijacking and absolute mess in Florida or in Ohio, etc, either.

Merde alors!

12. NYCee - 25 July 2006

Yes, but there was dissent at the Arab League’s meeting over exactly this point – on how to frame the blame. I think it was pretty clear Israel was going to go full blast and, due to that, the other members diverged in the tack to take, publicly, from those we have mentioned. The Gaza behavior alone was a clue that Israel was on a stomp. Now, they (SA, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco) may not have actually anticipated that it would be this bad, but I think they should/might have had a clue. The US and Israel in partnership under Bush and Sharon/Olmert have not exactly been confidence-inspiring.

13. marisacat - 25 July 2006

It was a given that Olmert had to prove himself. I think that dictated things would go very hard and rough.

I saw too that the Israelis are denying that they are constructing a prison for Lebanese and Hizbollah detainees.

More bargaining chips.

I DO feel in real practicable ways that S lebanon has been abondoned. And HAD been abondoned by the [weak] lebanese government.

Shadid had a human interest piece last night in the Wapo but inside he recorded that in all of S lebanon, except for what Hizbollah provides, the billions spent in rebuilding did not construct a SINGLE air raid shelter in S Lebanon.

14. D. Throat - 25 July 2006

Oh also IMHO… the delay in what people already know (Israel lost) and what is happening now …. is to weave and spin a story so that Israel can pull out and save face…

There are already some sad little weavers popping up in Orange Square:

Like everyone else, I’ve been scratching my head about what Israel hope to accomplish with the current campaign in Lebanon. Israel knows that air strikes won’t work, that a ground offensive could hurt but not destroy Hezbollah, that the occupation of southern Lebanon would only lead to the drawn out misery of the first occupation of southern Lebanon (to say nothing about the West Bank and Gaza). Israel knows this. It knows this! Its military strategy makes no sense — militarily.

But that is not Israel’s objective. Israel, quite simply, wants to scare the shit out of everybody. Everybody. And not just scared, but scared shitless. The ultimate goal is nothing less than peace in the region – if not real peace, than at least secure borders.

Seen from that light, the campaign is working brilliantly.

It is quite sad when the ideologies finally run head long into reality. I am interested in seeing how many versions of spin these idiots are going to come up with…

Well we all know that what ever the final outcome is… Kos will sure take credit for it… leading his people powered (yet corporate funded) netrootz…

15. D. Throat - 25 July 2006

the billions spent in rebuilding did not construct a SINGLE air raid shelter in S Lebanon.

Ah… but that is a given if the foreign aid came from the US… otherwise the shelters could be used to house the turrists… who would most likely be fighting against Israel. Keep ’em in plain sight…easier to kill that way.

16. pyrrho - 25 July 2006

that interview is funny as hell.

I wish I saw the video.

I asked a question at yearlykos meta panel, “do community blogs serve as models for the type of communities we want to build in the real world?”

anyone that knows my answer knows my answer is absolutely NO, they don’t serve as such models, but THEY SHOULD. We need to invent model communities, we have only organizations built on ownership hierarchies and elitism. We have to use ownership at an infrastructural level to create a distributed political system for an organization. That is, like phone companies that stay out of the issue of what you talk about on the phone and just own/operate the physical infrastructure. That’s behind my “obsession” with failed lefty organizations. I fully expected the dkos coop to degrade this way. Not-for-profit is not much better, just the same form but an unpaid board supposedly selflessly does the ultimate “owning”.

Bowers answered: A: from CHRIS: That would be a very dark world. The answer is no. Someone says something that makes people laugh, and then a mob starts chasing them. I think Drinking Liberally is a very good offline community, and they’re very good. Give them a shot. I can’t possibly imagine a real community structured that way. That would be scary.

Then moments later Kos likened dkos to a city… but it didn’t make the hand done transcript. Kos again likened dkos to a city, and himself the mayor in that nightline interview.

This is where framing as in frameworks comes in, where metaphorical reasoning (which is the only kind of reasoning about abstract things according to theory)… if it like a city. This metaphor of online discussion being “community” asserts itself over and over because relationship networks online share features with relationship networks in the rest of human experience. Dkos is a city… but how could kos be mayor? Mayors are elected… he’s an owner. There is no pretense of it being a government at all, even a royalist where traditional duty of the monarch to the people is presumed (if rarely present).

So what kind of city is it then?

BTW, I believe our online communities model what sort of community we will create automatically, whether we like it or not. I don’t think it matters what positions a virtual community professes, what they will really work for if given power, is to recreate their own form in whatever they have power over. If kos gets power over the Democratic party, it would take on more of the structure of the model community. That’s not happening, the opposite is happening, the Democratic Party has gained control over Dkos and it’s borrowing the Democratic Party’s shape. If kos gets power of the United States Government… he would transfer his model to it… which is not much of a worry because, one, we already have top down ownership elitisms running everything, and two, the Democratic Party is not going to let kos get that far in the end.

My travelmate to dkos thinks kos is not relevant… I say he’s wasting a lot of energy that was gathered together from the desire to make progress, but she doesn’t think even that. He’s merely working toward his own inevitable irrelevance, and especially insofar as he’s outgamed by the political operatives surrounding him.

People forget that political operatives in the Dem party are good at things, not winning elections for Democrats, not winning elections for Progressives, not making progressive legislation, not not not a million things, but left over are some things they are good at. Coopting you using your ego and $-money, they’re very good at.

In the end Kos will say, “LOOK! I did it, I remade the Democratic Party in my image, look at dkos and you can see! It is in the same image as the Democratic Party, and that proves it.”

The physical laws of networking will sort it out one way or another, because one thing is true… dkos and the lefty blogs rose from the feeling that you could not say what must be said, and the more dkos is content controlled, the more something will arise to present that content.

Dkos was originally controlled in terms of general intent… if you were not “liberal” you could be booted rather easily. If you were liberal, your content could face light of day at dkos, you might get flamed (it’s the internets), but the determining factor was affiliation as a liberal.

As content is controlled, the beast will not suffer the limitations… it will break up and dissolve. Ironically, I doubt it will ever cease to be profitable for markos, however. But he might overplan and drain it’s profit that way (i.e. sportsblogs, etc etc)

17. CSTAR - 25 July 2006

Re The Map of Beirut

It’s a start. I think if we had a street map of Beirut it could gradually be annotated with information on the level of destruction for each block. There are several reasons for doing this:

The accumulation of cold facts is an anecdote to the of feeling utterly powerless rage in the face of hypocrisy and state terror.

Though war crimes have been committed by both parties in this conflict, it is absurd to claim (as for example William Kristol, Alan Dershowitz and other apologists do) that Israel’s behavior in this matter is exemplary, since it warns residents to leave before bombing. Regardless of whether it is true or not whether such timely warnings are always given (it certainly is not true in all instances) are we to believe that it is humane or even legal to ask residents to leave their homes so a foreign power can destroy these homes, along with most of the residents belongings? Are we for a minute going to believe that it is perfectly legitimate for a state to cause hundreds of thousands of civilians to become homeless and impoverished, in effect ghettoizing them?

If we conclude that this destruction of neighborhoods is a crime, the extent of that crime needs to be documented.

18. marisacat - 25 July 2006

Seen from that light, the campaign is working brilliantly. Dkos “weaver” from D Throat comment 14.

CLASSIC! Every big mess is always “brilliant”.

19. NYCee - 25 July 2006

D. Throat:

Re your Post #1 –

That is very aligned with what I just saw. I checked the Jim Webb-site to see how he (says) he falls on the issues

It was very minimalist. And very general on economy, education, healthcare. And telling in what it lacks, such as anything on choice, gay rights…

For example, Webb supports “access” of every American to healthcare. Many say that. That’s easy to say. A Tasini worker pointed out to me that Hillary talks about “access” whereas Tasini comes out for universal healthcare, direct and simple. I was quite impressed with Tasini’s issues section, and he goes into a lot more detail in many posts he’s written on HuffingtonPost, which I hope/assume are on his blog. He even addresses Israel/Palestine.

In other words, this Tasin is a dangerous freak. Lol. ie, do NOT let this one crash the gates! :=) Translation: too sane and advanced for us. Further translation: up to speed with this century, not back pedaling on a fast track to centuries past. I always felt that was true of Kucinich. Too advanced for the plebes and their lords and ladies en masse.

The issues section, I am finding, is one that many pols like to smudge and short change. It is really quite telling, this section, re what kind of person this candidate X is who wants your support/vote/money. I have found they are often poorly fleshed out. Have been amazed at what they get away with not saying or saying so nebulously… kind of like going to a restaurant and having most of the menu blurred out … but do order from all columns, do patronize my ESTABLISHMENT. Lol.

Freddy Ferrar, for example, who challenged Bloomberg on the Dem ticket for NYC mayor, had a piss poor website. Really pathetic. No there there. I supported him, but he deserved the weak support he got, really. It wasnt just the Bloomberg dough and ‘record’, it was Ferrar’s lack of clear cut stances on a multitude of issues. It was sorely lacking. He really didnt have much to say… ie, much planned re what he would do differently, it turned out. Not that it would have made him win, but I would have been left with a far better impression than what I got, and it would have given his volunteers something to go on.

20. marisacat - 25 July 2006

LOL re websites, that is what it is like iwth the majority of these ‘candidates” tho there are notable exceptions.

As for Freddie Ferrer… Armando tried to hide they are friends. Lordy. Some hack our of a Dem machine. But a couple threads of die hard tough NYers sorted it out.

Freddie seems to be an accepted jester for, or of, this shitty fake “progressive” crowd.

Schumer and Reid on Cspan aobut Al Maliki speech. What did they expect? they demand he renounce Hizbollah. Gee I don’t think they can “demand” much. LOL.

War Dems. Love them some Bush, in a round about way.

21. NYCee - 25 July 2006

Also, there is that idea floated that the leaders who were more allowing of the Bush-Olmert action were concerned/fearful about rising Shi’ite power, such as in Iraq, going to Iran, going back to Iraq, going to Hezbollah, etc. And Syria. Hitching their own interests onto this military atrocity, with a wish and a prayer?

I dont know how much truth there is to this. I do know that no matter what the crisis, all of them always do emphasize, although no one in our MSM picks up on it and hammers it home, that the lack of EVENhanded brokering and participation by Israel and the US toward a viable, fair 2 state resolution (like the AL, all of them, proposed in 2002, which was left to languish by Bush-Sharon), is the most crucial issue to resolve, if there is ever to be a chance for peace with Israel and greater stability.

How true. I couldnt agree more.

I keep harkening back to how Hamas kept its ceasefire in place and then agreed to the 2 state idea. Next thing you know, weve got thousands of Hamas/Palestinians held hostage and the bombing of Gaza’s power plant … and all hell is breaking loose over Gaza and now Lebanon. I think Israel is simply off its rocker. It (and this includes many of its people, who support the unilateral moves and the bombing of Lebanon), I think, it has truly internalized the blind spots that made it GRAB more more more out of fear or hubris or greed… and it cannot access the ‘place’ anymore where it needs to go, psychologically, to tap into necessary concessions. It cant SEE it.

A former Speaker of the Knesset, Avraham Burg, wrote this stunning essay, which someone turned me onto on the Guardian several years ago. It speaks to what I just said. And note the message, framed ever so delicately, to “friends” of Israel at the end.

Take a peek: A Failed Israeli Society Collapses While Its Leaders Remain Silent


It turns out that the 2,000-year struggle for Jewish survival comes down to a state of settlements, run by an amoral clique of corrupt lawbreakers who are deaf both to their citizens and to their enemies. A state lacking justice cannot survive. More and more Israelis are coming to understand this as they ask their children where they expect to live in 25 years. Children who are honest admit, to their parents’ shock, that they do not know. The countdown to the end of Israeli society has begun.

It is very comfortable to be a Zionist in West Bank settlements such as Beit El and Ofra. The biblical landscape is charming. From the window you can gaze through the geraniums and bougainvilleas and not see the occupation. Traveling on the fast highway ›hat takes you from Ramot on Jerusalem’s northern edge to Gilo on the southern edge, a 12-minute trip that skirts barely a half-mile west of the Palestinian roadblocks, it’s hard to comprehend the humiliating experience of the despised Arab who must creep for hours along the pocked, blockaded roads assigned to him. One road for the occupier, one road for the occupied.

This cannot work. Even if the Arabs lower their heads and swallow their shame and anger forever, it won’t work. A structure built on human callousness will inevitably collapse in on itself. Note this moment well: Zionism’s superstructure is already collapsing like a cheap Jerusalem wedding hall. Only madmen continue dancing on the top floor while the pillars below are collapsing.

22. marisacat - 25 July 2006

CSTAR, googleing (and I am a lousy googler) I found a video that is made of overlaying maps… it is at Boing boing. I can only get the aggregator (partial text only) and not able to bring up hte actual post at Boing Boing.

Let me see if I can find the Boing Boing posting.

23. marisacat - 25 July 2006


ugh… when I got to it finally it was only done for scale, to show Americans how small the distances are in the Demascus – Beirut – Israel region

will search again in a bit.

24. NYCee - 25 July 2006

Overwhelmed with war images and unable to tolerate congressional clowns or whatnot, I have been turning to afternoon AAR the past few days. I tune out a lot of it but I have to say that Randi Rhodes has been pretty good on this war issue re Lebanon, mideast/Iraq. Digging back to the Netanyahu plan to smash the mideast and reshape into a neocon’s dream — without those pesky Palestinians. The wrongness of the bombing in Lebanon. The carnage and destruction serves no good purpose. The weapons. G-word. Genocide in Iraq. (A guy called up and called her an antiSemite. Good sign she’s doing something right. Sad to say. Another caller said she had a son killed in 9/11 and she hates what theyre doing in his name. She has been to Lebanon, is just sick .. she was in Tyre, met many wonderful people, Shi’ite, etc…) She’s reading Dahr Jamail and Fisk. She is going outside the Dem rah rah and prescribed safe zones.

She can be intolerable, I know. But she has a good strain and she’s pulling it out quite a bit.

25. marisacat - 25 July 2006

oh I like Randi.

I think the ONLY reason that Danny Goldberg et al (whiffs of NDN/NPI again) have not been able to run her off (they ran off tons of lefties and stiffed some for their back salaries, from what I hear) is that (again, what I hear) in the initial set up she sank some personal cash into the deal.

26. marisacat - 25 July 2006

ooo thanks for the Avrahim Burg essay. Will use that in the next post. I have been thumbing thru some photos from a site I landed on. Taken in Israel … they will match up well.


yeah I agree, how many children, other than extreme radicals (immigrants to the settlement movement for one) want to live in modern Israel, the product of Sharon and Olmert and others. I also can easily see why some Palestinians no longer embrace the Two State solution. They can wait. Birth rates and the never made public exodus numbers. Reverse Exodus.

27. marisacat - 25 July 2006

Four UN observers killed. There are charges it was DELIBERATE.

via BBC on PBS here.

28. NYCee - 25 July 2006

Marisa, just a heads up on your links that I meant to send your way but Ive been busy.

The Joe Bageant essay from a few days ago was a treat … and funny! Read part of it quite late, couldnt finish, but will get around to it. It rings true with me – where it was going re our culchuh. My sentiment. Very uniquely expressed.

Also I had promised self to do Tasini work, but it was your article-link on Hillary (I think NY Observer) that I do swear pushed me into immediate action. I think the MortZuckLOVEtoHill and the alignment with the lobbies is what did it … that speech on Monday, by the Israeli mission. That and all the deadly news.

PS – Oh, youre welcome on the Burg. Im glad you’re going to share it. Profound effect it had on me, the way it was written, what it said, in a way that things mostly arent said. Deep. The poster who posted it on GUT, (Jewish, maybe Israeli lass) and I were similarly in awe.

29. NYCee - 25 July 2006

When I said “intolerable” (Randi) I meant the part of her that makes people wait to speak and then rolls over them in mid sentence, first sentence! Or when she pounds on the same point for four hours. But she was smoking today and in the past few days. Very much opening up the dialogue against blind allegiance to Israel and keeping it interesting.

30. marisacat - 25 July 2006

Madman just sent this from Alternet… posting it to a commetn as it fits in with ”Hillary issues”. Really glad the NYO hit home. Playing off Rupert and Mort. Gah.

I figure the Clintons usually run a couple or three scams at once.

Very tricky people. I am very sorry they ever popped up:

Why is Bill Clinton campaigning for Lieberman?


31. pyrrho - 25 July 2006

marking up beirut maps.

google maps has pretty accurate satelite imagery of beirut.


google API allows putting one’s own marks… a little googling might find a place to do this.

or even using google earth, which I have not played around with in a while, but it allows marking maps with pins… might be a tool to put together a damage map of beirut.

I’ll look more later to see if I can find something using google maps api to help make this easier… but I figured I’d post right away after finding out how accurate the available satelite photos of beirut were.

32. NYCee - 25 July 2006

Holy fucking shit.

They are lost. Just lost. Remember that blind spot I spoke of re Israel on its actions? The disease the infects DC as well re Israel? Well, the Dems have it worse than the GOP, it seems. And boy do they have it BAD.

What could be more telling than this:

Democrats decry Maliki’s comments on Israel

Oh, get a shitload of this Dem rage against the Iraq PM for very tame and sensible comments about the world must stop Israel in its war on Lebanon and Gaza.

I simply cannot excerpt from it because it is all so fucking parallel universe gagable, I cant choose just a paragraph or two. Read this and weep, laugh, spit, whatever. Senator Brownback comes off more fucking reasonable than Nancy Pelosi! (Her rage at Dean for evenhanded hath been reawakened. She sucks) All the Dems, even Durbin, are full of brown from AIPAC’s ass. The fucking Republicans are sounding better! Hastert better! Schumer, that shit, was right there in it, mouthing about all our sacrifices for HIS WOT, so how dare Maliki treat our dear Israel like this… All our treasure and lives… for his fucking neocon dream.

I remind or inform all that Schumer said a few months ago on a Sunday show he would still do the war on Iraq. He is a fucking TRUE believer. I loathe the man. (I saw the Schumer/Durbin/Reid trio on Hardball just now, which is where I found out about this. But let’s get back to our regularly scheduled Joementum.)

Check out what Maliki actually said. That I will excerpt:

Iraq’s U.S.-backed government denounced Israel’s raids on Lebanon and Gaza. Maliki last week called for “the world to take quick stands to stop the Israeli aggression.”

Who will be the last one standing to say these people havent fucking gone insane? The Democrats are fucking insane over Israel. I swear.

33. NYCee - 25 July 2006

Sorry that was so garbled in the first few lines (above). Too floored to edit. I had the double whammy of seeing how the Dems reacted to Maliki (hit another low re our political reality, and I am pretty far down there already) followed by this absolute lunatic on Hardball, this theocratic Endtimey nut rasping on about evil Maliki and Jewish blood spilling for Christian blood in “precious” Israel, and how dare (our puppet) Maliki not align himself with our govt’s (insane) view toward Israel. And dammit, we needed to conquer Iraq for the control space, to hell with their democracy, 9/11… God… Jesus…Jews…SAVE US. I think the gist is intact though.

Who the fuck is left to rescue us from these madmen and women?

34. marisacat - 25 July 2006

it has been boiling all day – the Dems I mean, over al Maliki…. All sorts of them, they even wanted to deny him to make the speech before the houses of Congress. dems wanted to deny him. Shakowsky for one.

I mean, get a grip people.

They are over the edge. Different edge than the R, but over the cliff… LOL.

Wave buh bye.

35. CSTAR - 25 July 2006

Parallel universes in collision it seems. Or different storylines getting mixed up by the scribbler.

36. pyrrho - 25 July 2006

well, blind spots in reason are far to common… I expect them.

but you’re right, it’s odd. During a war where we theoretically have learned that to oppose a war is not to oppose the nation fighting it, it’s to say, “don’t fight this war” including “because it won’t turn out good for you”.

Of course, no elected Dems have learned that lesson even theoretically… but the bloggers would like to say they have.

The call for cease fire and diplomacy to lead not to solutions but to more diplomacy seems pretty straight forward, it’s not rejected because of it’s complexity.

37. Deepest Troat - 25 July 2006

CSTAR, marisacat, pyrrho

I just wrote my friend and asked if he could give us the insider details of the neighborhood, so I guess if we can find some way to get a map of the nieghborhood and have it link it up so a dbase of the information, I think it will work great. If he says he can provide this for us, all we have to do is set up the system.

I am thinking something like this map. What do you think?

38. gong - 25 July 2006

Seems a good number of them want to keep him from speaking to Congress. Here’s Schumer: “Before he speaks before Congress and the American people, we ask him which side is he on in the war on terror?” (Link; a story in which McCain somehow comes across as the voice of reason.)

39. CSTAR - 25 July 2006

The Google maps have some areas which are apparently blacked out so we may have to assemble the map from various maps. Maybe a wiki approach might work (not however like wikipedia). The idea would be to break up the map into cells (each roughly of city block size, say between 1 to 5 hectares) and list information about each block.

40. bayprairie - 25 July 2006

mr. p says, referencing Dkos:

if you were not “liberal” you could be booted rather easily.

and also if you were.

— also, the knucklehead using the words “scared shitless” in:

Israel, quite simply, wants to scare the shit out of everybody. Everybody. And not just scared, but scared shitless.

should really use the correct word, which is terrorize. i think death on the scale that’s being dished out along the lebanese border to “send the messages” goes a little beyond trying to scare anyone “shitless”. simple, accurate words should be used.

on another issue it’s not suprising that DKos, or any of the other party© blog “leaders” :::cough cough:::: can’t speak out loud and often and publicly against murder this country empowers permits and funds when it interferes with possible meal tickets. IMHO it’s the meal ticket that’s the whole point. the Dkos front page should read like this one does. it doesn’t.


it is absurd to claim (as for example William Kristol, Alan Dershowitz and other apologists do) that Israel’s behavior in this matter is exemplary, since it warns residents to leave before bombing.

so true. warning people to leave their residences or be bombed and killed is ethnic cleansing, pure and simple.

lipstick on a pig, frankly.

america, S&M nation.

41. marisacat - 25 July 2006


Open Thread up ahead, if anyone wants a fresh one… 😉

42. gong - 25 July 2006

warning people to leave their residences or be bombed

of course that’s an inclusive or, if you leave your residence they might still bomb you.

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