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Transition 30 July 2006

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, WAR!.

  Troop withdrawal from Hebron

Casting around for photos I landed on this article (7/26) from Palestine Chronicle.  I don’t embrace all of it, but certain points are salient.  Certainly the transition of “Bismarkian” warfare and the further references to “4th generation warfare”, (which is not new – and the article does refer to Lind)….   I don’t presume to know much… but clearly – the US has been a fool in Iraq and Israel met itself coming in Bint Jbeil on Wednesday. 

My own private guess, Qana paid for that humiliation (and for it’s own 1996 history).  By this afternoon, Israel is claiming it was a “mistake”.  That is not what they said this morning – and I listened to all the usual suspects, including Ayalon who called it a Hezbollah war crime.

    Red Cross in Qana, screen capture [le figaro]

One of the longstanding scenarios has always been that we were being drawn in.  However it came about, we are mired.  And now with our buddy, mired as well.

Bismarckian warfare seems to have become ineffective in the Arab-Israeli context, because Israel no longer poses the threat that it once did to the Arab regimes, and the Arab regimes much prefer Israel to the rising non-state actors growing within their own borders.

William Lind has also argued that non-state actors such as Hamas and Hizballah can checkmate the Israelis as long as these Muslim parties never formally assume power. If Muslim parties were to assume the power of states, then they would immediately become targets for traditional Bismarckian warfare. However, as long as Muslim movements retain theirnon-state identity, they are strategically unconquerable.

 The commentary on the various media is worth a glance as well:

Time and space, as we experience them, are contracting because the global diffusion of technical and scientific knowledge is permitting events in one part of the world to increasingly influence events in other parts of the world, and events that once took years or even decades to unfold can now occur within mere months or weeks.

As a consequence, the disenfranchised peoples of the world are developing the ability to affect the lives of the more privileged members of humanity, which means that anything that Israel does to the Palestinians or Lebanese will have effects upon Israel that are more direct and more negative than ever before, and that further, these effects will occur in an accelerated time scale.

And I agree with the close, this is where we have been headed, having to deal with a cornered animal, Bush and all the war mongers:

In the end however, Israel’s loss of power will make it even more dangerous, because the more threatened the Israelis feel, the more likely they will launch destructive wars against the Palestinians and Israel’s other adversaries.

Finally, the same can be said of the U.S., with respect to its loss of global power. Instead of becoming more careful with its use of force, the erosion of America’s global dominance will likely make the U.S. government more aggressive, as it attempts to re-assert its former position relative to its adversaries and competitors.

And it is precisely because America and Israel are losing influence over global events, that an American attack upon Iran in 2007 becomes more likely.

God help us all.


Oh yes.  How could I forget… on the Flip Side:   

the small prickless wonder [that would be the Dkos campaign operatives] wars:  Richard Silverstein appears to have been banned… from Dkos[thanks to observer]

Pop that campagne!  Rejoice Richard! [I left a comment which awaits moderation].

Dkos, and its related satellites, exists as a campaign operative’s tabloid sheet.  They have ZERO interest in real people, actual voters, and certainly NO INTEREST in liberals. 

They are interested in fluffers, campaign workers, Hill staffers, congressional aides, and other interested and paid parties to flesh out the threads.  And, they persist in using “liberal” to sell their wares.

”Banning” at Kos is activating a hunting license.


Via ABC News… a 48 hour cessation in the aerial bombardment.

JERUSALEM Jul 30, 2006 (AP)— Israel has agreed to a 48-hour suspension of aerial activity in south Lebanon while it investigates an attack on a Lebanese village that killed a number of children, U.S. State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said Sunday. […]

The stunning bloodshed pushed American peace efforts to a crucial juncture, as fury at the United States flared in Lebanon, which said it no longer would negotiate a U.S. peace package without an unconditional cease-fire. U.N. chief Kofi Annan sharply criticized world leaders implicitly Washington for ignoring his previous calls to stop the violence.

The attack in the village of Qana brought Lebanon’s confirmed death toll to more than 510.

In frankness, I think what happened at the UN offices in Beirut scared them just a little, not as a single incident, but should it spread from city to city, to US Missions and Embassies around the Muslim world…. Then, the stunning demand from the IDF for the UN to clear more Lebanese villages. 

Blood thirsty?  Just a little.

   Tyre ... Saturday

 And while i have not put up any pictures (other than mild stuff) from the many demonstrations against the war, against Israel and against the US, it is getting uglier. 

And no one should be surprised.  But it seems Olmert and Rice and a few others are surprised. 

However, more interesting is this, Tanya Reinhardt, a link found at Danny Schechter News Dissector:

Lebanon’s people know what every Israeli old enough to remember knows: that, in the vision of Ben Gurion, Israel’s founding leader, Israel’s border should be “natural”, that is, the Jordan River in the East, and the Litani River of Lebanon in the north. In 1967, Israel gained control over the Jordan River, in the occupied Palestinian land, but all its attempts to establish the Litani border have failed so far.

As I argued in Israel/Palestine, already when the Israeli army left southern Lebanon in 2000, the plans to return were ready.(12)

But, in Israel’s military vision, in the next round, the land should be first “cleaned” of its residents, as Israel did when it occupied the Syrian Golan Heights in 1967, and as it is doing now in southern Lebanon. To enable Israel’s eventual realization of Ben Gurion’s vision, it is necessary to establish a “friendly regime” in Lebanon, one that will collaborate in crushing any resistance. To do this, it is necessary first to destroy the country, as in the US model of Iraq. These were precisely Sharon’s declared aims in the first Lebanon war. Israel and the US believe that now conditions have ripened enough that these aims can finally be realized.

Sorry.  Not a post-holocaust nation, not anymore… not at all.  Clear, cleanse, even blitzkrieg they have used.  Amazing.


Riverbend is back:

Is this whole debacle the fine line between terrorism and protecting ones nation? If it’s a militia, insurgent or military resistance- then it’s terrorism (unless of course the militia, insurgent(s) and/or resistance are being funded exclusively by the CIA).

If it’s the Israeli, American or British army, then it’s a pre-emptive strike, or a ‘war on terror’. No matter the loss of hundreds of innocent lives. No matter the children who died last night- they’re only Arabs, after all, right?



HRC at the NY Pro Israel rally last week.On the Flip SIde, Hillary is on C-Span, yes what else?  Road to the White House….  God help her.  Her speech at the DLC Denver Conversation of a few days ago. 

Viewed a certain way, it’s a scream.  She has clearly been sent to some sort of speech-making tutorial class.  Smile as you speak and moderate the voice and facial gesticulation (what she is doing is beyond mere “expression”), depending on content.  It did not really work.  But she thinks it has.

She and Bill… shallow as can be.


UPDATE:  4:30 pm, PT

A snip from a post at Angry Arab:

The question now is whether this tragedy will be enough to prevent others.”

In reply, I wrote this:

“Today is a day when we Arabs really should be spared the language and terminology of the American press. “Accidents” and “tragedy” are not the words. Not today, Mr. Dickey. Not any day, Mr. Dickey.


posted by As’ad @ 4:17 PM link


Update, 7:30 pm, PT

Old Boss, New Boss, American Boss, Iraqi Boss

“For sure there are cases of children who have committed serious crimes and even terrorism that promoted the killing of innocent people – but they are in special jails,” Obaid said.

He said there were no children among the prisoners released by the government last month. Local groups such as the Prisoners’ Association for Justice (PAJ), Relief for Innocent Children Victims of War (RICVW) and Campaign for Innocent Victims In Conflict (CIVIC) say differently.

“They do not want the issue to have international repercussions, so they release the adults in front of the cameras and the children behind it,” said Farouk Saleh, spokesperson for RICVW.

“We have received information that seven children were among the prisoners released, five from Anbar governorate and two from the capital, Baghdad, but we have reached only three of them,” added Saleh. 

And of course, because we know very well what we are producing:

Dr Emaad Abdul-Hassan, a psychiatrist in Baghdad, has offered his services to the PAJ especially for child prisoners. He’s found serious psychological problems and an increase in aggression and brutality among these patients – in particular, a desire for revenge.

      mondodisotto photo, 2003 Irak


UPDATE, 7:40 pm

I caught John Roberts from S Lebanon (or maybe he was over the border in israel) on CNN.  Speaking with an IDF spokesman – Spigelman was the name, with an Australian accent.  The 48 hour cessation of aerial bombardment, at least from that officer, is so the Lebanese clear out of the villages the IAF plan to bomb.

And much talk about the Katyusha rockets.

Roberts also gave the count of dead children at Qana as 19, out of “nearly 60”.  They have to obfuscate.

And somehow this is related… I heard both Vilsack and Hillary at the DLC Conversation.  It was MIND NUMBING.  And can be summed up, Platitudes are us.  And, George Bush, alone in 5 years, wrecked the nation.  And, we do wars neater.

Then caught Dodd at some flapdoodle in Florida.  Typical Irish pol bombast.  Not enoough.  And he lauded Israel.  Said Bill Nelson is a great fighter for Israel.

Not enough – and in fact wrong.  Hillary’s refrain is, ”Democrats did it once, and we can do it again”….  seems to me that invites jokes. 

But, not to worry, ’06 should be a blow-out and ’08 a piece of cake.


UPDATE:  9:00 pm

Almost have to laugh, it is so clear that America and her friend, Israel, thought there would be no blow back. 

We may be at the early edges of blowback.  Real blowback.  Not just a single, spectacular, killing tragedy… but a global response, thru-out the Arab and Muslim nations.  Fools that we are…

GAZA, July 30 (Reuters) – Palestinian protesters stormed the main U.N. compound in Gaza City on Sunday during a demonstration against Israel’s bombing of southern Lebanon that killed around 60 civilians, witnesses and U.N. staff said.

Hundreds of members of the Islamic Jihad militant group, some throwing stones and others firing assault rifles, attacked the compound at the end of a rally, witnesses said.

At least five people were wounded, police said. […]

Witnesses in Gaza said extensive damage had been caused to the U.N. compound, from where the world body directs its relief and aid operations for the Gaza Strip’s 1.4 million people.

The attack came hours after thousands of Lebanese demonstrators attacked the U.N. headquarters in Beirut, smashing windows and ransacking offices.


UPDATE:  10:00 pm, PT

Took three DLCers to produce this sludge.  Clinton, Vilsack and Carper… their imprimatur at the least.

Leaves out a lot, but for a 99 cent Hallmark card, you too can have the American Dream.  Even as NAFTA, CAFTA and the Wars Without End (just for starters) kill any hope of it.



 palestina 2004 [mondodisotto.it]



1. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2006

It’s stunning to me that they think this course will actually WORK. They will only cause a widespread conflagration that will kill countless numbers of people, and will likely lead eventually to the destruction of Israel.

That photo of the line of coffins is heartbreaking … but sadly there will be more to come.

2. marisacat - 30 July 2006

…but sadly there will be more to come.

oh yes, that line up was SATURDAY at Tyre. That is not even Qana.

Well I agree, over a few years, continued exodus, continued engineered influx from hard right former Iron Curtain countries… and it may not matter much… it certainly is not a post-Holocaust homeland or refuge …

Basically a war-making,land acquisition increasingly isolated (clearly by choice, as is America) tribe of people.

3. observer - 30 July 2006

A perfect illustration of Jonathan Schell’s thesis is over at Riehl World View (www.riehlworldview.com). (I purposely didn’t create a direct link–up to you, Marisacat.)

He’s had some interesting stuff about Kos, some nasty invective against Greenwald that’s gone undefended by his fellow BBBs, and rah-rah commentary on Israel. I was curious about how he would handle the almost universal admission that Israel is losing. What I found was no questioning of his initial enthusiasm for the war, no analysis of whether other options must be considered. Instead, there was this:

Recently the term disproportion has been in the news as regards fighting a war. Think about proportionality as regards the current debate of the Iraq War. Young men and women, good young American men and women are off in a foreign land fighting for what America defined as her cause when she went to war. They are fighting, being severely and often permanently injured and even dying everyday.

Yet, as purveyors of what some might call pro-war rhetoric, how do we respond to the people we see daily undermining the very effort required to fight that war and adequately support our troops?

Isn’t the tendency to go soft on them? To not actually say what we believe to be true in our hearts – that, ultimately, their short-sighted reasoning, or lack of resolve weakens America’s prospects in what is an increasingly dangerous world as a result of the rise of radical Islam?

Isn’t it disproportionate to give anti-war folks like that a pass when they sit safe and protected pumping out un-war-supportive prose, while better men and women than all of us fight and die? I’m starting to think that it is.

What I do know is that, if we are to defeat Islamofascism, many more innocents will die. And even more innocents will die if we don’t defeat it. With stakes that high, is it really such a crime to call certain individuals cowards, or traitors, or somehow un-American, or dangerously misguided Americans, at best?

If America and perhaps now Israel find themselves in a position where they can no longer effectively let slip the dogs of war for just cause, isn’t it, at least in part, because the rhetoric of war has been ceded to those who will always oppose it, no matter how right the cause?

Qana was a tantrum born of the frustration of defeat. The examples of such behavior in Iraq have become too numerous to catalogue.

But the brown “Others” will not be the only targets. As Schell points out with excellent historical examples, America does not lose wars–it only finds itself hamstrung by a traitorous fifth column on occasion.

This is going to get very nasty. Cheney, Rumsfeld and their ilk have no intention of letting the mid-70s–with their legal process, self-examination and reform–be repeated in this century. They have the “guts” to do what Nixon didn’t. And they have the laws, the supine opposition, the compliant courts and the complicit media to pull it off.

4. marisacat - 30 July 2006


agree… and! lack of an opposition party.

I thought the Schell piece was excellent.

I try to drop in on Riehl about twice a week, but had not been back to see how he is handling the unfolding horror.

Certainly IDF spokes people are tacking to a hard line. We shall see. I agree, it will get uglier. And again NO OPPOSITION in the official “other party”. None.

5. observer - 30 July 2006

Another example from Mark Steyn in the MSM who takes off from the Podhoretz Post piece linked here earlier:

So even the most powerful military in the world is subject to broader cultural constraints. When Kathryn Lopez’s e-mailer sneers that “your contribution to this war is limited solely to your ability to exercise the skillset provided by your liberal arts education,” he’s accidentally put his finger on the great imponderable: whether the skill set provided by the typical American, British and European education these last 30 years is now one of the biggest obstacles to civilizational self-preservation. A nation that psychologically outsources war to a small career soldiery risks losing its ability even to grasp concepts like “the enemy”: The professionalization of war is also the ghettoization of war. As John Podhoretz wondered in the New York Post the other day: “What if liberal democracies have now evolved to a point where they can no longer wage war effectively because they have achieved a level of humanitarian concern for others that dwarfs any really cold-eyed pursuit of their own national interests?”

I see. It will be necessary for the U. S. to get rid of that weakening democracy and “freedom” in order to spread those wonderful values abroad. Or maybe it’s just a mis-educated generation that must be eliminated.

Anything rather than admit that their dream of America as a 21st century Rome was ridiculous.

6. marisacat - 30 July 2006

I say, send Podhoretz to war. Several to choose from… no need to feel pressured into one war. And do itPronto.

Gets that nasty critter out of the country, at least… LOL.

7. observer - 30 July 2006

One more bit about the impotence of the Left, not in the U. S. but in Israel.

From Gideon Levy in Haaretz today:

The people want victory, and nobody knows what that is and what its price will be.

The Zionist left has also been made irrelevant. As in every difficult test in the past – the two intifadas for example – this time too the left has failed just when its voice was so necessary as a counterweight to the stridency of the beating tom-toms of war. Why have a left if at every real test it joins the national chorus?

Peace Now stands silently, so does Meretz, except for brave Zehava Gal-On. A few days of a war of choice and already Yehoshua Sobol is admitting he was wrong all along. Peace Now is suddenly an “infantile slogan” for him. His colleagues are silent and their silence is no less resounding. Only the extreme left makes its voice heard, but it is a voice nobody listens to.

Should we be turning the Right’s argument on its head? Is it possible that in a world filled with “fourth generation warfare,” it has become impossible for democracies to stay at peace? Given the ability of the ubiquitous “Fox News” type media, warmongers find it quite easy to stir enough of the population to support war abroad and repression at home that Israel and the U. S. have become former democracies.

Can Europe escape this fate? Maybe, if they’re not stupid enough to send troops to some peace-keeping force.

8. marisacat - 31 July 2006

thanks for the link to the Gideon Levy… I was poking around at Ha’aretz and just getting depressed. Quite ugly commentary (threads).


9. bayprairie - 31 July 2006

yes, ugly comment threads at Ha’aretz. i recommend not reading them, although I have been doing exactly that this evening also. Best not to.

10. marisacat - 31 July 2006

agree bay…

11. D. Throat - 31 July 2006

Fuck ’em!!!

I refuse to even read this shit… the title is pukeworthy as it stands.

Roberts and Alito Misled Us

Edward M. Kennedy

That shit worked the first time for WWD in Iraq… now this shit is just plain tired. Fuck you Kennedy, if you had just listened to your base…. you know those people who vote and fund your campaigns… then perhaps… you wouldn’t be trying to cover yours and the entire pathetic democratic party’s ass, right now.

What the fuck are they up to that they are sending out the “librul” clown Kennedy to make pre-emptive ammends and excuses? … Over turning Roe….????

… the GOP is going to need a hell of a whammy to get elected in November… they will need something “BIG”.. just in case the Democrats decide to pretend that they are still alive.

14 Democrats including the Dem Senate Leader Reid crossed over to vote with the republicans on yet another anti abortion measure… of course not a work on the FP’s of the “Progressive” blogshits… still no word from FDL…. I guess Jane is too busy declaring Lieberman is bad for women even though he voted in favor and the Blogshits “favorites” Reid and Nelson voted with the Republicans.

Oh… M. Cat I skimmed through Armstrong’s “plea”…. why am I not surprised that he wa/is a fundalmentalist christian… looking in the stars ….”I see a new book in partnershit with King Blogshit and the “left’s” answer to evangelicals megachurches”

They are all GOP …

12. marisacat - 31 July 2006

I agree. I read the title hours ago at Real Clear Politics. I did not open it.

So sick to death of Teddy – and ALL OF THEM.

13. Madman in the Marketplace - 31 July 2006

Fuck Teddy and the car-he-drove-off-a-bridge in …

14. NYCO - 31 July 2006

LOL, Madman!!!

15. marisacat - 31 July 2006


16. Deepest Troat - 31 July 2006

Kos to all, Get past your single issue myopia

That’s one of the big ironies of this race. As much as the traditional media and the status quo establishment want to make this about a “single issue” (that pesky little flare up in Iraq), fact is that we are looking to build a party that goes beyond the myopic single-issue groups and works to build — as Schmitt says — a “just society”.

Who was looking out for the middle and lower class during the bankruptcy debate? No one, except the bloggers. The women groups were AWOL, as were the environmentalists, the gay groups, labor, and just about every other progressive issue or constituency group.

Our lack of single-issue focus divorces us from the politics of the progressive movement, the check-list mentality to running campaigns. We can see beyond ANWAR, choice, and affirmative action (important, but not exclusively so) to other important progressive causes that don’t neatly slot into the traditional and formerly all-powerful groups. Things like bankruptcy, net neutrality, health care, and earmarks (pork) reform. What if, like Schmitt asks, women are no longer satisfied with hearing the right thing on choice, and demand progress on pay equality, mothering rights, and a rational health care system for them and their families?

It sort of complicates things, doesn’t it?

What the hell is he yappying about?

17. marisacat - 31 July 2006

He supports and reinforces Reid. Frankly if anything they/Blahhgers seem largely run from that end of the party: conservative, anti woman, pro war, pro biz, anti populism (yeah really, as if “online” = “populism”).

They want to make their party ”power” bones off Lieberman moves, but are closer to Lieberman (and a weakling, Lamont) than to progressive left efforts. The odd bit of CYA.

Reid who defends earmarks to his dying breath (he and his lobbyist sons luv earmarks). Reid who never met a SC nom from Bush he did not smile over.


Nothing else.

18. CSTAR - 31 July 2006

Somebody someday please explain to me all this banning business at dKos. I always thought MarisaCat was one of the more sensible posters there. It still read dKos from time to time, but I find it’s too noisy and too much concerned for the nitty-gritty of politics. About the only thing I could contribute was the occasional snarky comment (sometimes in Spanish, intended as a reminder that Latinos are still largely disenfranchised) I do find it disheartening that there is so little discussion about the crisis in Lebanon. I am not that naive to fail to understand the reason for this. Nevertheless, it is still painful.

As a side note, the battles at dKos are nowhere near as bitter as those at wikipedia over major articles. See the talk pages on Juan Cole for instance. He was being eviscerated.

19. marisacat - 31 July 2006

I think all the bannings, whether individuals (meaning we were banned as individuals) as with wilfred, myself and madman or the mass purges, are all about sculpting the site as an elections promoting tabloid.

Also the site is used, imo, for the exercising of various “hits” on this or that Democrat at the behest of other Democrats.

Tabloid journalism with an extortion whiff, IMO.

It is a party operative site. If you are not part of the party game, or you have an individual voice – and they do allow a small number who will shut up and kow-tow at the right moments to stay – then you are marked.

I wish them all good luck and good fortune.

Wikipedia, imo and I have not followed it all minutely, was greatly complicted by Siegenthaler involving himself and using that incident to self aggrandise. I had also heard, but do not know, that left impulses were discouraged and “centrist” voices were elevated. But I don’t know.

Cole, well I am sorry for him, but he is a part of the Kos game (see his blogroll, it used to be individual, reflective of his site and his interests – now it is just what is requested as a minimum if you are part of BlogAds/Advertising Liberally) and frankly he is a Democratic Party consultant. I tend to lose interest, to some degree.

I still read his site, but not in the same way I did years ago. It can be useful as a well trimmed aggregator.

most things, in fact IMO all things, that relate to Kos/Dkos operate as choke points. Dkos is a business and operative arm of the party, nothing more.

20. Deepest Troat - 31 July 2006

I really haven’t read anything except if someone points to a diary or it comes up in a google search, I just recently started monitoring dkos because of what is happening south of the border, there are two or three posters who are from Mexico and they are providing some good information on the developments that are not being covered by the MSM. I would probably stop monitoring it once the court makes it decision.

It becomes too time consuming when you try to sort through truth and lies in well covered up propaganda. IMO, a person who is trying to get the truth out will cross-post it, the propagandist is too busy trying to spread disinformation in areas that is heavily populated, which I so far have found to be true. There is a difference between discussion and distorting information. I feel those who are being too combative are trying to cover-up and have people detour from the main story and it seems it works way too much over at dKos.

21. CSTAR - 31 July 2006

Try reading Folha de Sao Paulo (not the same country of course, not even the same language) but you’ll get a different perspective on world news. This might even be more reliable than the mexican press.
Esquerda mexicana endurece protestos por suposta fraude eleitoral. This particular item is from Agence France Presse.

I’m not from mexico myself, so I can’t help out on mexican politics.

22. NYCee - 31 July 2006

Hey ever’ body!

Dropping off a few tidbits, but first, oh what a larf that Kos toots his horn by saying it was the netroots who banged the bankruptcy bill outrage drum, ie, lui-meme, as Marisacat would say. (Hey, je parle francais, aussi!)

He really ought not praise himself too highly, because a movement that has a leader who feels great passion for an issue, (ie, his claim re the bankruptcy leg debacle) simply does NOT let that battle end with a whimper and a command to let it go, forgive and forget, which is exactly what he did when it was defeated, with the help of all those Dem traitors on board. His babe, Herseth, was, in fact, one of the major sell outs in Congress, I think a New Dem, or whatever they call themselves now, who signed onto a letter to push it out for a vote along with 20 other Dems, like the odious Harold Ford.

What Kos did was come out with a wan, nay, bloodless post to turn down the heat that had been generated.. that basically counseled everyone to let it go… hey, we have to get money out of politics first! That was the excuse … with money in politics, of course we must expect this to happen. Now take your lumps, Kossacks, forget that a big bunch of Dems were traitors, including Harry Reid, minority leader) and get back to loving all Dems but for Joe.

That was IT.

So NOT a mover and shaker on that count. Can you imagine the leaders of the “narrow interest groups” he harrangues making a statement like that after a horrible outcome such as that on an issue they fought for?

Like I said, a larf.

And, of course, he continues to avoid Lebanon like the plague, while LamontMania grips the nation.

There has been a lot of rebelling on Kos re Israel/Lebanon, and that is a good thing. Of course, still all quiet on the Tasini front. He’s scary scary progressive, ya know.

For real.

23. NYCee - 31 July 2006

Here is a piece from Counterpunch, which excoriates the Dems on Maliki, Israel, and in which the author offers his take as to how the Dems and the playuhs, overall, play the Israel/ME game. IE, lock on control.

There is emphasis on Dean’s role at this point and time… and the restless natives/base problemo … base dont necessarily play that! (They have no base with me. I have stated I will never pull the lever for Hillary or Schumer again. Never.)

Why Howard Dean Denounced Our Puppet in Iraq

For starters:

Keeping the American Street in Line


A moderate Arab politician (and for “moderate” read “pro-American) engages in a complex dance with both the American government and what is commonly known as “the Arab Street. For the Western media, you talk about “democracy” and “pluralism”. Behind closed doors with American power brokers, you give them assurances you won’t threaten the state of Israel and that you’ll continue to keep the supply of oil flowing west. For your own people and for the Arab media, you give fiery speeches denouncing the Israelis and the American imperialists.


24. marisacat - 31 July 2006

oh I recognise ‘S Rogouski’… iirc, he comments over at hmmm ‘Stop me before I vote again’…

In fact when I went to look for a link to that site, one of the FP posters has up a Good Slam at Dkos


25. marisacat - 31 July 2006

oops that did not work… let me try again.


26. NYCee - 31 July 2006

Follow with this chaser:

Then there is this re a poll on Americans and the Dem elected officials’ FIRSTER support for Israel – That abundant crop of perennially Green Lit Dems, to their everlasting shame.

It is beginning to be noticed and stated that this does not entirely sync up with the American public. Schumer must be confusing us with Israel. (It looks like he is planning on voting for Bolton! Hillary too? He excuses his past neoncon excesses – Bolton’s, not his own. Those, he very much flaunts, with pride! — by saying the guy is a GOOD GUY when it comes to Israel! Slate wiped clean. Magic words – Good on Israel. In reality, that means bad for it and bad for us, of course, coming from the Schumer/neoconned bouche. (More French!) Maybe Hillary will introduce a bill making it a crime to burn an Israeli flag? Hey ho!

Anyway, here’s the piece: (Ugh!)

Congressional Democrats echo Bush’s defense of Israel

WASHINGTON -While President Bush routinely faces criticism from congressional Democrats over the Iraq war and his domestic policies, there’s been little criticism over his stance on Israel’s campaign against Hezbollah in southern Lebanon.

That has freed him to stand firm against growing international pressure for an immediate cease-fire.

Even as much of the world expressed outrage Sunday over an Israeli airstrike that killed more than three dozen Lebanese children, a leading Democrat echoed Bush’s defense of Israel.

“I have no criticism of the president on this issue because I think he is doing the right thing,” Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., told CNN. “I know some in the world have called for an immediate cease-fire. But that says Hezbollah has a gun to Israel’s head; let’s let them continue to keep the gun there, which they can use at will. It’s just not fair to Israel.”

Snip to the divide (but decent MSM summary of the PanderPalooza within, although I think Chuck is, a la former Mayor Koch, a dyed in the wool true believer … Israel first! Koch, I had the pleasure of seeing on TV telling an assembled Jewish group they must vote Bush out of “gratitude” for all he has done for “us” ie, war on Iraq for Israel, was the only message one could take from it. Koch, big openly DemproBushIraqWar supporter)

Israel’s political clout is nothing new. Many Americans feel a close connection to Israel, and pro-Israel activists are renowned for their ability to influence foreign policy. Still, polls indicate that Israel’s supporters in Washington may be out of step with public opinion in the conflict with Hezbollah.

A recent Gallup poll found that 65 percent of Americans thought that the United States “should not take either side” in Israel’s war with Hezbollah. About 31 percent sided with Israel, while 4 percent had no opinion. Support for Hezbollah was negligible.

27. marisacat - 31 July 2006

I am expecting a good turn out to vote for Bolton. Which reminds me I have nto checked into The Washington Note… I followed that site for the 4 months of the Bolton push back. In the end the Dems just were angered at personal issues of pique, imo.

They all read the Voinovich piece… and hell, they all voted for Negroponte, 98/2. Wyden and one other voted against Negroponte (cannot remember who it was).

The jig is pretty well up, imnsho.

Republicrat Party, screw over women on your way to war and be sure to enrich business. Children and old people – ooops fresh outta life boats! whOOOPS1

When that authoritarian lump, Hillary, can – with a straight face – call “affordable health care” the same as “still supporting universal health care”… welllllllll.

Line up of Jokes.

28. NYCee - 31 July 2006

They are quite awful in quite a few ways… quite a few of them… Phew!

Well, someone called me about an ad hoc demo at UN re Lebanon ceasefire, moving on to Times Square. May just make it.


29. Deepest Troat - 31 July 2006

I think this is a good mini view of the standard for maintaining the group think mentality, and this mentality occurs at both BMT and MLW and most likely imported from dkos.

It is all about your respect your elders, no matter how wrong you are, period.

” It’s not a matter of your views, per se, or even your manner of expression of them, regarding the subject at hand. It’s the lack of respect for long time members. You gave the opinion it was meaningless, that new members deserved the same respect, no more, no less. I think it’s a little more nuanced than that.”

“My suggestion, FWIW, is to show some consideration to the people who have spent a lot of time establishing a reputation on which they stand, instead of condemning them for what you see in front of you. All of that is without comment as to whether your assessment of the facts is right or wrong.”

So it is all about the senority, so how can a disscussion occur?

30. bayprairie - 31 July 2006

wow.. great link to stop me before i vote again, marisa.

did you see the comment in the thread on


what a wit!

“Purity” is a lame strawman not-so-progressives use on progressives, to imply that said latters agree with the formers on all but one issue (whatever that issue might be), and that the latters are willing to destroy any and all possible political coalitions for the sake of that one single issue (again, whatever that issue may be).

When I whip out the 15 issues (read: far more than 1) in which the Democratic Party’s platform fails progressives, the “purity” strawman goes away for, like, two seconds, and then quickly returns as though the previous conversation never occurred.

It’s like playing permanent whack-a-mole, and it sets my teeth on edge.


there HAS to be at least one other reader who’ll love it as much as i do!


31. pyrrho - 31 July 2006


Interesting. I don’t demand respect on that basis or any other. I believe in respecting others and respecting myself, others can respect me or not.

There is no seniority.

There is, of course, a broad brush. We want to trust who we like and like who we trust.

Here is a case to separate a message from the messager… GOOGLE EARTH is designed to do what you want in Beirut… to place markers anywhere on earth. The satelite of Beirut is pretty detailed, you could easily create markers, then they are easilly uploaded to google earth servers where people could get them and have a read map of the devestation.

There is no benefit to me if you check out Google Earth, but it is a tool for exactly what several expressed they wanted to do…. Google does not know the streets of Beirut, but they are easily visible. To place the marks one would need another map to find what is what in the satelite photo (or alternately, the exact latitude and longitude).

32. gong - 31 July 2006

I think wikipedia trends libertarian. Admittedly I rarely consult it for anything political, so I’m going entirely by reputation. I’ve read (I think on Slashdot, of all places) that its coverage of central America is very skewed by this. (But it did have the clearest explanation I could find of Hong Kong’s weird electoral system.)

33. marisacat - 31 July 2006

bay… I had not been at ”Stop me Before…” for about two weeks so poked around… MANY good entries.

And I wandered to some of their links. Other “banned” people… 😉 More to come.


I have only used Wikipedia very selectively. Libertarian would make sense… I think.

34. marisacat - 31 July 2006

If Hillary wants to introduce a bill about burning the Flag of ISrael… lordy… be running to all the Muslim countries to shake her finger at the world. Because burning that flag, the US flag and various effigies is what is happening all over.

And walking on the flags … that was a big one last Friday evening for muslim prayers.

Good Luck Hillary. She and Bill should be so proud. Never really opposed the Bushes, any of them, once they got to the WH. Chumps for the Republicans.

35. gong - 31 July 2006

Interesting comment from Mash, who’s been posting some good diaries at dkos:

Funny, a lot of my diaries usually make the Diary Rescue. None of my Israel-Lebanon diaries have made the rescue. Its taboo.

(Here, in the thread to his/her diary War Crime in Qana.)

36. marisacat - 31 July 2006

gong, thanks for those links.

BTW, BBC took cameras on foot thru Bint Jbeil.

Absolute devastation. Total destruction. Rubble. The reporters said the IAF pounded it for days.

Collective punishment. And Olmert is widening the war. NO surprise. I am sorry anyone thought tactically losing or losing the PR game would restrain the Israelis.

37. bayprairie - 31 July 2006

I’m painting today, the bathroom in my bedroom, a few hours ago, while the first coat dried, I read this thread while having a snack and then lay down for a short nap before finishing the task.

When I was sleeping I dreamed Hillary Clinton and Howard Dean were flying an israeli fighter/bomber mission over Beruit. Hillary was the pilot and Dean was her navigator.

Do you suppose that was a prescient dream?

38. marisacat - 31 July 2006

Maybe they went to a lamont sock hop (would that be their era?) in CT and found out they liked each other more today than in 2003/4.

gotta laugh…

39. NYCee - 31 July 2006

Jesus, bayprairie.

I wuld say the paint fumes were having an impact on your dreams, but I think not… too much making war… too little making sense from the party and its top players.

The photos have been particularly sad from Qana, as was Robert Fisk’s commentary on DN today, firsthand. Part 2 tomorrow.

I was around a bunch of beautiful little children today. They remind me of little flowers. Little treasures. Then I see those smashed Lebanese flowers. The victims in their pajamas. For no good reason. Such deep, deep misery their remaining loved ones have been dealt.

This is too twisted for words. And the Israelis talking about getting Lebanon on their side by eradicating Hezbollah (Not that that’s happening, anyway… but still), that they would say that, given their methods, is just stunning gall and … well, insane.

Now it seems the PM, Signiora, is openly embracing Hezbollah, whereas he once was very pro-west. I will never forget that man’s look of utter anguish, while Condi dealt in death in Rome (in a very mannered way, of course). No, Mr Signiora, you may not have an end to our mass murder, sir! It’s for our own good! Call me in a week or two. I’ll see what I can do. Until then, deal. Give us a diplomatic kiss, eh?


40. bayprairie - 1 August 2006


It was oil based paint, perhaps you’re right about the fumes having some mixing effect with what’s been more or less on my mind, or very close by, these past weeks.

I also made a decision to look at the images from Qana, yesterday, and have done so. I’m very upset by all of this. I feel personally betrayed, and my anger at, and the contempt that I hold for the government of my country, and the two political parties seems greater than it’s ever been. Our government isn’t just supporting either, or looking the other way. Our leadership is actively and intentionally prolonging the horror.

41. Richard Silverstein - 1 August 2006

Yup, I HAVE been banned at Dkos. But I’m going to create a new ID & post a diary savaging Kos for his absolutely stupid piece explaining why he wouldn’t’ post another word about the “clusterfuck” war in Lebanon. The title? “Why Has Kos Gone Stupid on the Lebanon Crisis?” (see link below). Then I’ll prob. have that ID banned as well.

Glad to know that despite our diff. backgrounds (I’m Jewish) that we share similar views of the miasma that is the Lebanon war.

42. marisacat - 1 August 2006

Richard, thanks for the post.

LOL I re-registered too, to rate (4s all the way!) and recommend diaries from actual liberal/left posters, real people. LOL They banned that one too, “StGermainCat”.

If you do that diary, give Mcat (marisacat at AOL dot com) a heads up.

They are absolutely delusional. Being Chums of Reid et al. has so gone to their tiny heads.

oh Lebanon, what an immense bleeding wound. Horror.

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