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Shell of a party, shells and shills… (Updates) 5 September 2006

Posted by marisacat in DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, WAR!.

Sea Shells for sale... and commenting...

Well. I am shocked … ;).. to agree with Ezra over at TAPPED… but I do.

TALKING ABOUT TALKING ABOUT. I’m basically agnostic on whether Democrats should welcome a national security debate this fall. If the Democrats weren’t such a bunch of fools and knaves, a rollicking, high-intensity discussion over George W. Bush‘s failing war, bin Laden‘s surprisingly successful game of hide-and-seek, and the unpreparedness for disaster that Katrina exposed would be a welcome additive to the GOP’s anxieties. But the Democrats often are a bunch of fools and knaves, so who knows how it’ll wash out. [snip]

And having caught the Democratic leadership <paroxysm of coughing> and their noon presser on C-Span… let me say it was a pathetic endeavor.

Reid, Nancy, Steny, Durbin, Carper, Gen Clark… and The Third Way. They all prominently mentioned The Third Way and brandished, like a shield, the report they are touting. It was tired… the line that resonated came from the report’s author… that we can ”turn the numbers around in Iraq”.

God, help your lost children. Or take them away.

If the party cannot speak about Iraq, and over and over they prove they cannot and will not (Murtha came forward almost 11 months ago)… not a lot more to say.


From Garance at TAPPED [thanks JJB]:

[I] know for a fact that several active commenters on Daily Kos are either Capitol Hill press secretaries, who post comments defending their members, or campaign workers. That makes them sock puppets for their causes, even if they win praise, in some quarters, for defending their bosses. [snip]

Ah yes… the old ”pack the hall with shills”. A well known technique... and certainly Kos is loaded with that sort… Loaded to the ragged gills.

And: Yes I agree with a couple posters to the TAPPED thread: Name the names.

more to come… 😉


UPDATE, 10:30 pm

Well between computer collapse, or AOL collapse and what ever else (I still say Pluto is fighting back!) I did see this from Jane Mayer at The New Yorker and wanted to pop it up… in among the shells.. 😉

This snip, from the vagaries of dealing with an al Qaeda informant, gave me a laugh:

[F]adl’s older children spoke only Arabic, and they were provided with tutors for their schooling. Soon they were playing American sports and begging for trips to McDonald’s and water parks. But the process of assimilation was bumpy. At one point, when a supermarket-checkout person stared suspiciously at the agents and the Fadl family, the agents explained that they were “missionaries” and that the Fadls were converts. Cloonan recalled that the checkout person was overcome with admiration, offering to do anything she could to help the family.[snip]


UPDATE, 9:00 am Wednesday….

Going to plug along in this post for a bit, while i have a shakey computer connection…

Blogometer has a few things of interest today... Stoller, whose site assiduously kept away from the Cegelis Duckworth primary in Illinois 6… Bowers (think it was Bowers, “boyz” congeal) wrote a pretty silly “so shocked” at how close the race turned out to be. MY own take had been that the boyz dropped Cegelis – whom Kos had early on been sweet on – at a cue from DC. Bowers even admitted DC had assured them, Duckworth had it in the bag, possibly by 10 pts.

I smell Rahm.

But now Stoller has a post up on Duckworth’s mailer on amnesty in the immigration issues. Girl is running on hard core, some might say war porn hard core, anti amnesty. And let me add, Duckworth is another one with a spotty record of voting as a private person. They neatly said it was an issue of being in the military. Illinois Reserves. Whatever.

Hoist that helicopter…

IL 06: Maybe Pols Should Just Stay Out of Uniforms

Matt Stoller at MyDD has photos of Iraq war veteran Tammy Duckworth‘s (D) latest mail piece which he describes as “xenophobic and unpersuasive” and asks his readers: “Didn’t we learn in 2002 and 2004 that uniforms don’t convince people that Democrats make good Republicans?” Stoller takes some heat in the comment section for his attack on the piece, but argues in response that there are better ways for Dems to talk about immigration than the way Duckworth did in her mailing:

And a snip from the Stoller epistle on this… Hey boys, don’t cry now. You could have supported Cegelis. Or Winograd against Jane Harmon. We all have choices.

If the goal of this mail piece is to turn off Republican voters who are worried about Duckworth’s moderate stance on immigration, the right message is to attack Roskam and the Republican Party’s credibility on the issue. The conservative base is quite upset that the GOP hasn’t been able to get anything done on immigration, and if you are able to convince them that both parties are the same, you can drive down GOP turnout. Which is a more persuasive argument to a right-winger? Bush and the Republicans aren’t conservative enough and can’t get anything done, or Tammy Duckworth is a hardliner on immigration even though she backs McCain-Kennedy and will vote for Nancy Pelosi for Speaker.

Yes that vote for either Nancy or Reid (or if one believes the slop being pushed, Hillary) is what so many have hung themselves on.

Fine with me… 😉 We will look at the numbers in November.


In other news at Blogometer, Hamsher of FDL has hired a publicist who pushed Ykos to push her “stable”.

Natural Born Killers producer and progressive activist Jane Hamsher at firedoglake announced 9/2 that FDL hired Christina Siun O’Connell as Team FDL’s new press sec. Hamsher writes: “Many will know her as a valued member of the FDL community and also for her work handling press for Yearly Kos. She’s also a good friend and I’m really looking forward to having her on board.”

Gotta laugh. Might as well. It was my take, last winter, there were great plans at FDL to push a movie on PLame. My little beady eyes spied fluffers in threads to push that very thing…

America, the land of enterprise. Or a dollar.

I really regret these joints are called Liberal. Or left. Frankly by now they can have “progressive”… or as SMBIVA puts it: pwogwessives.

And Blogometer is entirely too facile… I am being kind… in how they characterise some early bloggers:

The Blogometer is much less distressed by this development. In fact, our feelings are quite the opposite. Looking at the top 10 most trafficked blogs, only DailyKos, Crooks and Liars, Michelle Malkin, and Instapundit started out as lone blogger-hobbyists. [what!! Mcat dropped her coffee mug]

The other 6 (including The Huffington Post, The Corner, and Think Progress) are either planned business enterprises, outgrowths of existing MSM pubs, or online presences of otherwise established orgs.



UPDATE: 10:45 am Wednesday…

Waiting for Lord Bush to read us the daily instructions… but wanted to mention that I caught Charilie Rose last night with David Sanger from the NYT.. and he spun hard for Iran war. Made it seem easy as pie. Apple pie. We could do it… we could even invade – said the pale and bland Mr Sanger… he admitted it would be a tad tough after initial invastion. And he was utterly blithe about taking out the hardened underground installations. It could be done.

People refuse, absolutely refuse to see how far gone we are – or they gratuitously point to online apparatchik businesses as “movement politics” – that will Save America.

What the NY Times misses is that it is the progressive blogosphere that has consistently insisted that there is still hope for America and has insisted on fighting back. The press sees this as nasty, as strident, as radical, and yet you can see in psifighter’s latest call to arms the best of the blogosphere.

(Send that boy back to the baby bottle, a soupy commercial product in the bottle.)

It is not enough to point fingers at a FP reporter (not just Sanger, many) for the NYT. Just the newest Judy Miller – a stay at home sort of Judy Miller. And Pinch is still Pinch. Son of Punch… More articulate than Bush… no cow boy boots that are easy to point fingers at and make fun of… but hardly different. A very embarrassing Legacy Boychick.

… everyone knows what I think of the Big Box Blahgs… and their tied-in Box Car Sites. BlahgSnots…BlahgKnots.


UPDATE, 11:10 am

– Israel –

Happened to see this at Electronic Intifada. An interesting look inside the workings of what the author calls “Post Zionist Israel”…

The closing grafs:

If there’s a single ray of light from this war, it is that it has sharpened the alternatives before which Israel stands. Unilateral solutions, based on military superiority, are no longer viable. In the end, the country will have to decide on a direction. A peace treaty with Syria and Lebanon will not solve the conflict at its root. The question of questions, on which Israel has stumbled time and again, remains that of the Palestinians. Nor is this just a matter of occupied territory. It is a matter of long-term economic occupation and the effects thereof. The per capita GDP in Israel today is $24,600. In the West Bank it is $1000, in Gaza $600.

In Egypt it is $3900, in Jordan $4700. These countries are nominally at peace with Israel, but their populations have become increasingly hostile to it and the West. A lasting solution can hardly be expected from within the Middle East, which swings between corrupt dictators and religious fundamentalism.

As long as the gaps remain so large, no peace can hold. A solution depends on the demise of the global system that maintains these gaps and its replacement by a system that can vanquish them.

Amen to that…


UPDATE, 12:30 pm…

– The Hemispheric Left –

I heard Lehrer, The News Hour yesterday… covering the aftermath, analysis of the declaring Calderon President-elect.

Very interesting, very cool to the touch analysis – and certain comments resonate for the Left in the USA!! USA!! The sports stadium, political rallying, war mongering nation that is enveloping us…

Some snips from the conversation between Suarez, Dresser and Starr:

RAY SUAREZ: Well, Pamela Starr, contest in what way? There’s that 30 percent the professor mentions, but what channels do they have to — to make their unhappiness known?

PAMELA STARR, Eurasia Group: Well, their — their contestment now is not focused on the election outcome, per se. Their concern now is to try to change the political system in Mexico, so that it will allow for an election of the left.

The left in Mexico is convinced that the political system in Mexico will never allow them to win the presidency.

So, what they want to do is see a radical reform of that political order. They’re going to use their power, both in the legislature and on the streets, to try to force the government to make those dramatic changes.

… from Dresser:

DENISE DRESSER: Absolutely. And the tribunal reprimanded President Fox for intervening in the election and stretching the limits of the law, pushing those limits.

And that gave Lopez Obrador leeway to declare that the level — the playing field had not been level for him. And, therefore, whatever he is doing is justified, in so far as Vicente Fox did not behave as he should have.

And, unfortunately, that has fed into the perceptions of many Mexicans that the system is always corrupt, always unfair, and that the only way to deal with this new injustice is to topple the whole building down, and as Manuel Lopez Obrador on Friday gave a fiery speech, in which he said, to hell with the institutions.

So, he is positioning himself as an anti-institutional player, who no longer wants to play within the rules of the game, but actually change them in a way that will benefit his political movement in the future. But that won’t be a — a movement that seeks power through elections or through the legal — the legal path that Mexico has used in the past to evolve.

It will be a very confrontational, very divisive, very polarizing approach to political change in Mexico in the future.

Either people are let in to share in power, or they seize power. One way or the other…

PAMELA STARR: I think, in some ways, he has been his own enemy, when we talk about that moderate left that Denise was referring to.

But I think he has also been a very clever strategist, when we talk about how he goes about positioning himself for what he sees as the best shot for reaching the presidency in the longer term. What he’s trying to do, above all else, is to hold his political alliance together.

And that alliance is based on politicians who felt that the election was stolen from them in 1988. That’s when Cuauhtemoc Cardenas lost the election to Carlos Salinas. But the difference is, at that time, Cardenas chose not to threaten political stability in Mexico by challenging the outcome of the election.

That has left a scar in the Mexican left. Lopez Obrador is very cleverly playing to that sensibility in the left to try to strengthen his position as the leader of the left, saying: I am the individual who will challenge this outcome, and thereby make it possible for the — the left to come to power at some point in the future.

And, up until now, it has worked beautifully for him. It’s difficult to find a left-leaning politician in Mexico who will openly oppose Lopez Obrador at this point.


UPDATE, 2:30 pm

– La Di Da –

Too too, too too funny. What preceeds the game of selling it to the movies??, optioning a … BOOK. [thanks Nanette]

Years ago, I was all for pushing on the outing of Valerie Plame. And I hung in quite a while with it. His perfect right to do so, but when Wilson, who iirc voted for Bush 1 (at the moment I just cannot recall his 2000 vote) campaigned for, appeared on TV quite a few times… in a mix of Kerry and Plame issues, I was stepping off the bus. OTB.
And when the Merry Band of Plamologists all conferred and all agreed (incestuous amplification) that “Condi had flipped on Bush”… oh do GMAFB. No she did not … she went in and cooperated with Fitzpatrick. End. No flip.

I decided then this was hyperbole beyond hyperbole… and this was a poor place for the party to think it could get traction. Or anything else.

And the “revelation” from Corn is sad. Just sad. Recall that Fitz did not find reason to charge under the issue of the outing of a NOC. But FDL has the spin-a-roo on that. Remember, a book and a movie to sell, sell, sell, sell. Many links in the piece… all the Box Car Sites are joining in, to recycle the cycles. As in, the administration ramped up to the war. Quel News.
Talk about wash rinse repeat. Ditto.

Amazing how the party, with so many chances to stand up, just gets WEAKER.



1. NYCee - 5 September 2006

Ahhh… ha! HahaHA!

In case anybody missed this (tried to post it a couple days ago but the computer I was using … fucked up), I give you the NY Times’ endorsement of Hillary.

(Surprise, surprise.)

Within, the Grey Lady gives an oh-so-classic Timesian performance.

Lol. It is to laugh. So utterly classic. A tangle of two steps that all boil down to the immovable establishmentitus of the Times.

From this mash of mush (or shades of greyed out lady) it seems, according to the NYT, that Hillary does have principles but is willing to triangulate them. (Does the NYTimes have principles? Oh, maybe so… maybe it’s just willing to triangulate them… That’s okay then. Carry on. And, as they say, it takes one to know one…) We are informed that in so doing, like in her positioning on Iraq (which the Times makes one mess of ‘splainin, or renovating, I should say), she is worrisome for ’08 as prez, but just great for ’06 and New York. She’s done supergreat things for New York, doncha know! That asserted, no examples are forthcoming. (Do I detect a pattern here? This is reminiscent of pro-Hillary bloggers, such as those Ive encountered on DK and whereever else they roam… no need to explain why she’s so good for us… she just IS!) Now go vote for her, or in GL vernacular, “We urge Democrats to vote for her…”

The NYT believes Tasini has “lots of spunk” and has no actual criticisms to offer on his positions or of him at all, which is rather odd, given that they are saying she is better for us than he is. Oh, except for this, which tells us whatsamattawitTasini and what’s good about Hillz. For me it was the biggest larf nugget in the piece:

~ […] Mr. Tasini deserves credit for making the run and we are sorry that Mrs. Clinton did not respond to his demands for a debate. But it is hard to imagine him working well in a large body of egotistic and generally conservative politicians.

2. gong - 5 September 2006

That is pretty funny, NYCee.

This also gave me a laugh. (Obviously I’m behind on my billmon.)

3. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2006

Jesus, the Times EDITORS need editors, or some remedial classes in logic, or some FUCKING SHAME.


Just in time for the primary, the Hillary camp floats the idea that she might not run for President, supposedly to take over as majority leader.

4. marisacat - 5 September 2006

I am having considerable computer (AOL it seems) problems… Just in case there is not much more to come… I have several more things I want to put in this post, but with AOL and IE in trouble.. of some sort… and Firefox acting like it is half dead… well…

Going to unplug and see what I can do to improve it. LOL then going on line to begin to change everything.

I have held off smushing it all together, getting rid of the land line that is used for this computer, and linking digitial cable and computer. We have comcast in SF.

ugh. I have only put it off for a year. But AOL is hurtling down hill.


5. marisacat - 5 September 2006

I have to say that Maj Leader shit… (and shit it is) strikes me, always has, as very odd. And that they report that Reid floats this. To her…

I am sure HillPAC regards Reid as a tired jockey. And never thinks of him, much at all. This pantomime that he would suggest this to her…

They REALLY think we are stupid. As in, Effing Dumb.

6. JJB - 5 September 2006


Mr. Tasini deserves credit for making the run and we are sorry that Mrs. Clinton did not respond to his demands for a debate. But it is hard to imagine him working well in a large body of egotistic and generally conservative politicians.

is without question the most idiotic thing I have ever seen on the editorial page of a newspaper not owned by Rupert Murdoch. And I’m old enough to have read (on occasion) the late, unlamented New York Journal-American (Hearst paper, died 1965).

I’m sure there was something very much like that in Pravda in mid-1989, just before the whole Eastern Bloc came crashing down. This country is about to experience traumas probably even worse than those of 30-40 years ago, and here’s the mightiest loudspeaker of the MSM telling us we can’t listen to any voices that suggest an alternative course might be a better way to go. Then after the degringolade, they’ll haul out, say, Tom Friedman to lecture everybody about how nobody could have seen it coming. Speaking of him, anybody catch his bit with Katie Couric on her new fangled CBS Evening News debut? They sounded like a pair of school girls talking about how they wouldn’t go to the big dance with so-and-so no matter how much he begged them because he was such a conceited jerk! Pathetic. I actually thought Bob Schieffer had done a good job with the program, it was much better than it was with Rather the last 10 years (at least!). Now we’ve got another version of Romper Room in place of a real news program, however flawed. Sickening.

7. marisacat - 5 September 2006

oh gong. Too funny. What a hoot.

BTW.. george was very big on the threat to Zionism today, from Aminedinejah and from Nasrullah. Onward from Zarqawi!!

Forget Moqtadr! Onward, Christian Soldiers… !! Mush, Doggies of War!!

I better bite the bullet and try to poke around with the computer…

8. gong - 5 September 2006

Hmm, I’ve had my own issues with Verizon finally resolved today. It seems the key is to call tech support twice. The second person will be able to sort things out.

9. Madman in the Marketplace - 5 September 2006

Friedman should be run out of town to write obits for the East Bumblefuck Times & Leader, Sunday edition. Hack.

10. marisacat - 5 September 2006

whew. The Japanese princess had a boy. LOL. I cast my eye over to the RSS feed from the UK Tmes / World.

11. Nanette - 6 September 2006

Gotta laugh. Might as well. It was my take, last winter, there were great plans at FDL to push a movie on PLame.

Heh… well you were close. I imagine the movie is next!

12. NYCee - 6 September 2006

Good writing of yours here, Marisa. Fun to read. (Not the first time!) I never liked Sanger, btw. Bloodless, status quo fellah, has been my take. Flat, flat, flat affect… Your report comes as no surprise but adds more. Gels the bloodless establishment potato, the valium reportage … to reveal some toxic spud nubs and more than just a droning go-along (bad enough), but also urges along to war (Iran) … the wan hearted warmonger. Nevertheless, the boys will do it and die, not he. Ugh. What was Charlie’s reaction mode like… hope not as giddily enabling as when he’s with, oh, say, Tom Friedman.

And thanks for posting the Rocky speech a few posts back, too. I had just settled for the sound bite. Wowzer. Salt Lake and who’d a thunk it?!

13. NYCee - 6 September 2006

Movin’ on to some pitiful writing and a decidedly nonRocky attitude, to boot…

On that pathetic NYT endorsement: Damn… but that was BAD! On so many levels. We – many here – are in agreement, it seems, that it hit a new low. Like a wearying Pravda, doesnt even bother to make sense any more… just a rubber stamp will do… Ick.

And yes, ditto to the gang (Madman, et al) on that miserable op-ednik, Friedman. I despise that man. Did I say I loathe him? (For too gaggable to swallow, see Friedman with #1 fan Charlie Rose practically swooning – between giddy giggles – over his every word…) In fact, I was just thinking of how much I despise him again today, for some reason.

And yet, the red carpet is so often rolled out for him.

Re ludicrous Times’ editors or their smiley-faced 🙂 warmonger/mideast ‘experts’ (Friedman, but NOT): it is not so much that this major editorial board or that major (asshole) columnist rankles (and truly, Friedman does), but what is so appalling is that they are so indicative of what is so wrong with our media in general – and our nation overall. They encourage the mindset that it’s fine that the center line has been moved to the middle of the right lane; DEAL with it and pretend it really is the center, while youre at it. And no matter how much evidence we have of the rightwing’s inability to govern even marginally well, they show respect, provide them cover, keep them comfortable and unchallenged and let the public know, any which lame way they can, that lefties are not to be trusted. Especially the non-triangulating sorts.

In keeping with the NYT quote we are currently laughing/crying over, I saw UPI DoD pool reporter Pam Hess (a rah rah embed, like the rest, but with the oh-so-cool black-framed specs and unkempt hair) do that typical rightwing’s okay/leftwing’s waaay too out there thingie a while back, without a moment’s headcheck, didnt drop a stitch. She was on a reporters panel on WJ or Cspan, somewhere with callers, talking war, and to emphasize how a view in oppo to BushCo was a valid one, she said (paraphrase): “Now these are conservatives in the Pentagon saying this, we arent talking fringe elements on the far left (knowing chuckle).” … She said it without noticing how fucked it was. Is it any wonder when we can have Fallwell and Kristol and Perle, but not Chomsky or Zinn or Fisk swimming in our news mainstream?

I mean, here we are with nothing but rightwingers in charge the past 6 years, fucking up everything to hell on a fast track with their harebrained, scary-assed ideas and policies, and she uses the mythical Goldstein of the ‘far left’ – those who make dastardly mischief upon our political landscape – (as if you can even find them …) as an example of a source too dubious to use or trust. But the rightwing sourcing is validation to these incompetents.

I fear it is getting so bad that I urge you to….

Stop. Me. Before. I. Breathe. Again! 🙂

Yeah, yeah. But Im still voting, aint I? Speaking of which, just got a call to support xyz including Hillary in upcoming primary. Picked up the phone and got a real human. He had a chuckle over me doing a Tasini thing on him. You turned the tables on me, said he. I said yeah, now go tell your friends about him when youre off the clock.

The Couric-Friedman funfest, or whatever that was, sounds horrid, too, JJB.

14. NYCO - 6 September 2006

All that Blogometer prattling about Jane Hamsher hiring a press secretary seems worlds away from my little corner of the universe…


15. NYCee - 6 September 2006

I am not at all a frequenter of the FDL zone, have no interest, so I am really not aware of what goes on there, other than what Ive heard, mostly here. I take it Plame is/has been much on the brain. Is it like to the exclusion of all else, practically? What’s up with that?

A quick look and I see the ATMs are working overtime and smoking. Lots of willing donors with the sort of spirit found below…

Muzzy says:
September 6th, 2006 at 12:17 pm *

Hell Yes

I’ll gladly donate to get it off the ground

Then purchase extras as gifts !


16. marisacat - 6 September 2006

well FDL was hot and heavy on Plame for months. As was Wheeler (emptywheel) at TNH (The Next Hurrah), eriposte at TLC … and a few others.

FDL pushed Plame mostly in fall 05 and then into winter 05/06. When things more or less collpsed a few months ago (no Rove indictments… nothing beyong Libby..) well… There was L v L… and whatever else. To me it is the most flat, one dimensional and aggressive of the tabloid sites.

And is very very nasty, or so I have noticed, with even slight dissension. Don’t argue with mama jane or mama christie.

I am pretty disdainful of the ”party sites”. They strike me as cheap shoe stores. LOL. Easy to do better.

17. Nanette - 6 September 2006

I don’t frequent there either, NYCee, for most of the reasons marisacat lists above… I too have noticed, on the few occasions I’ve read through the comments, that they (well especially Hamsher) are very, very nasty regarding even the tiniest bit of dissent. And quite proud of it too.

I just thought it was hilarious to read that here, about the movie, and then surf by there today and see the ramp up for the book.

Oh, and I want to second (third, whatever) everyone.. excellent writing here, and making connections, putting things together, so on.

18. marisacat - 6 September 2006

NYCee.. well once or twice Charlie’s eyes bugged out a tad. Not too much tho, LOL He was such a shill for Iraq War… and seems fully captured over the past few years by some one of the rightie think tanks. Often you can see he just takes what they send him… ugh.

Even as recently as the ’92 election he was much more broad based. I still remember a big round table he had, with Sista Soldja as part of it. And he did not talk over her or rustle papers. His favorite tricks when he does not like what is being said.

And unlike some who broaden and open up after heart surgery it seemed to just shut him down and in and rightward…

LOL. He is really rather pathetic.

19. marisacat - 6 September 2006

Nanette, thanks… 😉

and I can add that I have read several of the threads over at MobettaMeta (I think spiderleaf had sent me the link to it)… the ones where BMT commented. I understand where the posters and commenters are coming from. And your comments stood out.

Transparency is the issue – which was one of hte points you made at MoBetta…. All of these site owners BLAME their commenters. LUNACY. Embrace your posters. IF, that is, all of this ”community” chat has any meaning at all.

I did used to comment at BMT… but certainly never felt a “part” of the site. And certainly never felt welcome. Odd place.

But the sites that are tied in to any of the Big Boyz or seek any sort of approval or even notice from Dkos… are sunk. And hanging by their pink rhinestone leashes. And it all leads back to the party.

And I had two windows open at one point DavidCorn.com and FDL and somebody’s site was sending me a huge pop up. Gotta laugh. And what David Corn is doing attached to Pajamas Media … and STILL attached to them, I saw when I was at his site, with a brand new logo from them at the very top of his site…. Pathetic. Just a repository for Right wing money.


20. gong - 6 September 2006

Hmm, seems to me that’s a pretty reasonable topic for a book, and that Marcy’s a good person to write it. Though I agree that publishing it through FDL is pretty weird. (Disclaimer: I’m another FDL-non-watcher. And I’ve never had a head for Plamology.)

21. marisacat - 6 September 2006


The sites are welcome to do as they please. be talbloids, be party mouths, be businesses.. it is the Holier Than Thou mixed with plain old fashioned never goes away Democratic Party Thugism. And sold over and over as populism. And concern. And and and…

The hypocrisy of it is breathtaking. And they sell themselves as movement politics for the Peepuhl.

Sorry, just not my thing.

22. D. Throat - 7 September 2006

Party of empty shills:

I am no rocket scientist but…

with all of the Democratic parties connections to yunno …LIBERAL Hollywood… you’d think they would have know about ABC’s 911 docudrama more than 10 days before it is suppose to go on air.

Just enough time to time to stir up some faux outrage but not enough time to do shit. What a fucking farce!

There is one party in the US and Clinton is once again happily aiding and abetting the GOP… the strongest comment he can come up with is:

Clinton spokesman Jay Carson emailed us a statement questioning the film’s depiction of Clinton’s record and suggesting that it wasn’t a “serious treatment” of the facts.

Gee.. that must have given the GOP a bloody nose…


23. D. Throat - 7 September 2006

This is becoming the Dem leaderships MO…. send the fools on wild goose chases… to distract them from the facts right under their noses…

Everyone is looking under rocks at Disney and ABC relationships… and bringing out the traditional Rove boogey man. All bullshit…

all it shows is that once again the Democrats are WILLFULLY UNPREPARED for the most basic attacks from the GOP.

All year that fucking ballerina dickhead Rham Emmanuel ran to the media with every single hurt feeling he had with Dean… but the shithead did not see a fucking miniseries being cast, filmed and editted in Hollywood when his brother is one of the biggest Hollywood agents around….I say BULLSHIT.

The fucking Dems threw in the towels years ago…

24. D. Throat - 7 September 2006

The Dems have become experts at taking “a dive” right under the noses of their constituency.

While other people collect polling data this electorial season… like it means shit… I have decided to collect “Dem dives”…

This one above from Clinton was a Double back flip ending in a pike … I’ll give it an 9.

The whole “We don’t know nuttin ’bout birthin no miniseries” is a Classic Dem Backwards Triple from a handstand… gotta give it a 10

25. D. Throat - 7 September 2006

BTW it was Ari Emmanual (brother of the ballerina) who organized the Hollywood boycott of Mel Gibson on Huff Post… hmmmm…. he seems to know a hell of a lot of people in Hollywood… unless this entire miniseries was filmed and editted in a bunker in an undisclosed location… then the Dem leadership is full of shit and they once again have absolutely NO INTENTION on winning…

I was wondering why Kos made his little prediction a few weeks back that the GOP always pulls out a win right before the finish line. He says that both house will remain GOP… well since he is up Rham’s ass all the time… I am tending to believe him. Kos also conveniently forgot to mention anything about voting fraud…pathetic booking selling shill… I can’t believe he and the Conman Armstrong are going round two in paperback… believe me once was enough for anybody.

26. marisacat - 7 September 2006

D Throat… did you catch all the whining on FDL about the series… with hmm Nix I think it was struggling to work thru her old Variety contacts.

or so the tale of woe was told…


LOL there is transparency – and there is ‘just transparently BAD’.

27. Madman in the Marketplace - 7 September 2006

congrats on the write-up NYCO. It sounds like you guys might be building something good up your way.

28. Nanette - 7 September 2006

Thanks, marisacat. And yes, MoBettaMETA is a fun site, although we don’t seem to be able to sustain rants for long.

I’m not much of a commenter anywhere, but the only scoop type blog I’ve really participated in is BooTrib, and that not much. It is an odd site, mostly because of the really big disconnect between the front page and the diarists/users, in my opinion.

I find it odd, though, that those sites seeking a sort of independent power (political or otherwise) think that the best way to get it is to tie themselves firmly to dailykos…. that sort of business plan makes no sense at all. Instead of branching out into other venues to get users, they all stick close by in an (apparent) attempt to encourage traffic from the same pool of users (at kos), so that there is little or no chance of building up a vibrant, independent community that has its own unique power, instead of what is essentially borrowing kos’s power base for a time. Except for a few who stick exclusively to one blog or another, even if they visit it is still kos’s power base, not that of the individual blogs. If that makes any sense.

There are only so many times the same exact people can perform the same exact political or social action (sending letters, signing petitions, and so on) no matter how many different blogs all saying the same things they cycle through.

Sort of like what the Dems are doing, come to think of it, in seeking to be just a kinder, softer spoken (while executing many of the same policies) version of the GOP.

29. marisacat - 7 September 2006

I agree.

People should have the strength – and the very real desire – to strike out on their own.

And all the so-called “box car sites” – and I call them that as I had heard the plan was to ”box us in”, so that for a large vigorous forum such as could exist from the scoop platform, the plan was that we should be boxed in. “have nowhere to go”.

I believe it, somewhat conditionally (never buy all that is on offer, LOL) , because it is what I have seen in operation.

The other thing is that the thug aspect is so clearly the party, or shards of, factions within.

It is a nasty period. And a new medium was “boxed up” fast.

Without the Dkos model — and all the tangential little sites are wishing every day for his ad revenue… and to me BlogAds, his/Bower’s/whoever’s Advertising Liberally is part of the ”Box Em up”… and also part of shutting down criticism of DKos/Kos/etc — it would not be so tight a lock down.

And we are not talking ”Macy’s versus Gimbels” here. We are talking about political thought, political discussion at a critical turning point.

Kos went to Thugdom (of a “bleeding” sort that migrated as well)… other sites went to coffee klatches and soap operas. In some ways it suffers from issues in the nation, issues of “personality” and, however minor, celebrity-hood.

The Dkos model relied, absolutely relied on the lemming model. So many good people, strong voices, moved on. Make a site inhospitible ot political thought but USE the “Liberal” label you got by promising a liberal forum (which Kos did in the beginning). Pity. Only a business model, retail elections sites tied to the party, nothing more. Nothing at all liberal about any of the BBB and the tied in Box Cars.

30. NYCO - 7 September 2006

Here’s the funny thing I’ve discovered, and maybe you can pick that up from the article I linked to.

There is absolutely no reason why bloggers and journalists can’t have cordial, even symbiotic relationships within the context of the work they do, but there has to be a community context. The farther up you go in the power-and-influence scale, the more the community context dies. That’s what’s missing from all this stuff nationally. In most places, this potential symbiosis has been yanked from its context of community service (as has politics generally), which grows out of love and familiarity with a specific community.

I have read or looked at hundreds of blogs and very very rarely do you get even the slightest hint of where the writers are from. I mean, Markos Moulitsas could be from Miami, he could be from New York, you’d never guess he was from San Francisco because he never refers to his community in any way shape or form. Community-wise, he’s a blank. If Washington, DC, disappeared tomorrow, he’d have nothing left to talk about. Basically with the blogosphere now you’ve got a bunch of disconnected people yapping at other disconnected people. All of them rich (either upper middle class, or working for the elite media) or hoping to GET rich. It’s such a vacuum, it’s no wonder people are now worshiping the High Priest of Quaoar or whoever.

And it’s no use to huff and say “I’m national. Community is not what I do.” The farther you get from the community-service (or at least, community-appreciation) element, the more pointless it gets. Kos’ pretensions to journalism-cum-politics are just that as long as he orbits Washington’s shiny but dead star. Garbage in, garbage out.

The point of blogging is not “What is a blogger?” or “What sort of respect can I get” or “What sort of journalistic credentials do you owe me” but rather, “Where do I fit in in this community” and, if there is someone else doing good work (particularly if they are a journalist), “What can I do for you?”

31. CSTAR - 7 September 2006


I appreciate your analysis in the last comment (29). It does put some things in perspective for me. When I came across Kos a few years ago (late 2003, a few months after it scoopified: my UID is about 1750) I found it frustrating because though it seemed to genuinely encourage participation, it was far too noisy to participate in any meaningful way. There can’t be community without conversation. Moreover, it quickly became clear to me that there were definite boundaries to what was acceptable to be part of any conversation there. However, that particular fact, was, then just an unpleasant fact of political life. In particular, I was willing to visit the site, because it provided some commentary on the electoral and political events of 2004-2005. Moreover, I did take an interest for a while in dKosopedia (having had some experience with Wikipedia)

There were several annoying posters that for my own personal taste were more than I could handle. One example is a certain pastor. I don’t want to impugn his honesty, nor the sincerity of his followers: But for me personally, I cannot participate in a political movement based on religion. Alliances are fine, and said individual should open up his own online church and maybe post a link to it. But this gratuitous immersion of religious faith into politics is in fact one of the conceptual foundations of the one party state which we are living under.

The last straw for me was the almost total silence on the Israel Lebanon war. There was a diary entry by Meteor Blades, while though heartfelt really addressed the wrong problem; I don’t judge anybody’s claim to a piece of territory: I do judge there willingness to engage in a war which destroys people’s homes, livilehoods based on casuistic arguments of intentions.

32. D. Throat - 7 September 2006

What Kos blackballs on his front page is more telling than the paid for commentary he pushes every day.

Not only did he refuse to say a peep about Lebanon and Israel… there is a longer list:

Nada sobre las elecciones mexicanas
Nada sobre la inmigración
Nada sobre el acto de los derechos al voto
Nada sobre fraude de votación

Kos is a paid shill nothing less nothing more. The powers that be Rosenberg et al have cleared the path for Kos to be “successful”… it is the easiest way to keep all the Kos wanabees in line… in vain hopes that they to will strike it rich.

I see Kos has thrown in the towel on the ABC affair proclaiming “VICTORY” that Scholastic has delinked their site... big whoop. The damn thing is still going to air with no edits… just like everyone has known it would for months now. No that that is over Rham can go whine to the press some more of how Dean is being mean to him… yunno IMPORTANT SHIT.

33. marisacat - 7 September 2006

Well.. Hillareee gave ABC an exclusive, Day with Hillary, that has been rolled out in snips and snaps as of yesterday. Started on the early AM World News Overnight.

What I caught of it… and I assume there are snips in other ABC Mews/Entertainment/Magazine products, is very White Woman Junior League. Which is her slot in life. And hard core pol of a certain stripe. And so on.

They (Clintons, aides) have known this was in the making… if she is a desirable product, as in for years now she has limited exposure/availability (and this was conscious, to enhance her as a product right about “Now”), then GOD DAMIT DO NOT GIVE ABC AN EXCLUSIVE “On the Girl Scout Trail with Hillareee”. IF you are really pissed aobut hte docu drahma.

My take is they are not very upset. They could care less. About truth, the country or terrorism. They show little interest beyond themselves. In anything. Bill DID at times operate from common sense (as in swift use of FISA, regular meetings of all principals necessary for a free flowing routine) but it is my sense he was bouyed a bit by being President and now is bouyed by money, association (The Bushes) and so on.

And million dollar condos in Ireland… and the REAL Girlfriend thru the Monica_Gate being close at hand (London, last I checked).

Perhaps she (Hillaree) could visit Aruba. Find Nataleeeee.

Whip out those Opera Glasses and Buckets, many Buckets of Popcorn.

34. D. Throat - 7 September 2006

Yeah, I heard Wolf Blizter heartily proclaim that Bill was “hopping mad” that is when I knew for sure… that the whole outrage bit was faux faux faux… any more crediblity for the sham-ness they’ll trot out Lieberman to authenticate that Bill is really miffed.

Something told me that things were not quite right in Denmark when they trotted out the usual rabble rouser B Team congresscritter suspects Slaughter, Conyers etc… if the Clintons were really miffed it would have been Lantos, Biden and Schumer… at minimum… at least ONE senator to give it some wieght.

Frankly, I am getting sick of this fire brigade mentality… it does not show the Democratic party in a strong light if it can even swat away an attack that has been in preparation for minimum two years… they all just end up looking like chickens with their heads cut off. The only people I blame are the Dem establishments WILLFULL UNPREPAREDNESS for every god damn election… and we are just suppose to believe that they were caught unawares ONCE AGAIN.

35. D. Throat - 7 September 2006

HA!!! I see someone finally woke up Ried and Schumer….

36. NYCee - 8 September 2006

True, gong. Neither can I criticize the Plame Affair as a topic. I dont know what the angle of the intense Plame focus is over there at FDL. Maybe it’s a many-sided thing and takes a positive (deep and comprehensive) focus, maybe not.

I am pretty ignorant of how the author treats the topic, as it is something I paid attention to at various points, but not something I remained engaged in – it gets swallowed up in the bigger picture of related and neverending Bushshite. I was amazed by the gushing forth of immediate donations for the book, sight unseen, with many wallets opening without pause – even the promise to buy it as gifts.

37. marisacat - 8 September 2006

oh i have no problem with Plame as a topic, but reading the online obsession for many months, well, I used the ”Condi flipped” as an example. That ignores reality. And they all parroted it, and more.

And the breathless belief that Rove would be nabbed was sheer ignorance, willful or therwise, of how government works.

I admit, I had thought Libby (stand in for Cheney) and Hadley (stnd in for Condi, in her position as NSA) so even I had expected the smallest bit more than was gotten. But no indictment for criminally outing a NOC.

I think Fitzgerald is honest and hardworking, but also part of the classic prosecutorial mind. And surely considers himself a “patriotic American”. I will leave it at that.

And my own guess is the Wheeler book was shopped around, no interest. The WIlson book will be the one grabbing the sales, the slice that exists – and Wilson has the deep ruts into media for years now. A recognisable face.. His book will garner the leftischer sales, that is.

Now FDL is collecting cash to publish and then will sell the book, back to their own readership..

Her perfect right to fleece the marks. But that is what it is….

Over and over I see that the BlahgSnots

1. grease their own skids so to speak,

2. have no respect for their own commenters, posters (that is really like a cult) and infact there are indications the the Major Snots, Kos, Bowers, Stoller, David NYC and the main top Blahhgs Atrios FDL and the chorus

3.SELL the netroots as effing dumb. To pols, to the party and so on.

A new medium, or so they called it once.

38. marisacat - 8 September 2006

This is what I wrote in October 2005 and in hmm April of 2006.

39. aemd - 8 September 2006

“but also part of the classic prosecutorial mind”

An unease with the people they work for. Sometimes I feel they fear the US citizens more than ANY foreign influence. An influence which they never stop harping on..LOL

“SELL the netroots as effing dumb”

Hey now, everyone has gotta make a living… a BIG living. 😉

40. Nanette - 8 September 2006

from your comment on the April 2006 posting:

I have not bothered to write much about the investigation, tho I have followed it. I consider “Fitzmas” hype to be a rather frenzied side show from the Democrats. Anything to try to fire up a base – any base, when they themselves are in supine decline.

That’s exactly it, I think. Firing up the base, getting them involved in every itsy, bitsy aspect, collecting factoids and rumour, keeping on top of every jot and tittle of news and in general, giving people an illusion of being a part of something BIG, of being players. .. when in reality each is far more powerless over anything here than even in a political campaign or election. We’re dealing with a federal prosecutor who, no matter how much integrity he might have, has his own agenda, follows his own rules (or laws) and is not affected by letter writing campaigns, blog posts that follow his every move, or political considerations (all this as a very broad generalization, pretty much meaning that no matter how many times someone types “Fitzmas!”, they have no real affect on the actual process).

One thing that has come out of the intense interest in the Plame issue though, that is pretty freaky… a CIA operative and a professional government blahblaher are now heroes to people on the Left. And we have former spooks (Johnson, Lang, probably others I don’t know about or have forgotten) – who make no claim to being liberal or leftish at all, but who oppose the Bush admin- posting on “liberal” blogs, becoming familiar names and faces and settling in, quite comfortably welcome right in the midst of what some might consider their natural adversaries.

I don’t know any of these people personally, of course, but when you consider them and the years they’ve spent in disinformation, part of an organization (one that kos considered joining, no?) that specializes in destroying “leftist” movements and governments around the world (and here in the US), and then also the very visible (though possibly unrelated) push among mostly the bigger blahgs to marginalize and in fact demonize progressive and leftist positions, as well as those advocating for them, and more besides, well… one just has to wonder about things.

I don’t actually think that there is any big conspiracy going on or anything – maybe- , but I do think that because of opposition to Iraq (and much of that being opposition to how badly the occupation is going, not to the invasion and occupation itself), too many people are willing to make “common cause” with, or completely ignore the histories of or current actions of, too many people and, as a result, are being herded, sort of, into accepting right wing “democrats” and others just because they speak against Iraq.

Sorry, one of my pet peeves..lol. I am anti war.. I am anti all wars, but I really, really hate that everything is coalescing around “end Iraq war now!” I think that, far from being scared of or trying to dampen down anti war sentiment, that there are those who are instead taking advantage of it to direct it to where they want it to go. Which is to ignore everything else, and vote for people who will end the occupation -at least this particular one, and that only maybe- , no matter what else they also might have plans to do.

41. gong - 8 September 2006

Yeah, I remember some of that Fitzmas sugar-rush, marisacat. Sorry to say I fell for it a bit myself.

Nanette, great comment.

42. NYCee - 8 September 2006

Marisa –

Read your response on FDL from yesterday. I know, through your critiques and links, that you take a pretty deep look at the Dem party tie-ins and the $elling out of certain popular and sometimes not so progressive “progressive” blogs … and the resultant chill to and choking off of effective opposition to damaging RW policies, or the non-promotion of needed change that results from being too embedded to that unfortunate DLCed/GOPped big “Dem” tent.

You take the time to look at this scene pretty thoroughly. I dont, really, but I do have, and have had for some time, an increasing sense, with a few specifics, of this unifying party line at Kos and other blogs, a connecting overlay, that is troubling, due to how chilling/numbing and stultifying it can be. And all of a same piece. Dull. I recognize some of the worst thugs in this mix from DK, from my own experiences, such as DHinMi. And there are others. So I view your observations with interest and often can find agreement.

I still cant say for myself what FDL does right or wrong, but maybe the fact that it doesnt interest me speaks to it being a part of what I have just described above. I am so disinterested I wont even bother to go find out why I dont bother to go there! Har.

43. marisacat - 8 September 2006

Nanette — agree all points.

gong… Plame issues and the too likely inference to draw that it was, on one level, intimidation against a group (Intel officers and operatives who might come forward) had great resonance… tho of course it would be with a small group. But it needed to be pursued.

“Fitzmas” as driven by Dkos, Atrios, FDL, Raw Story, Americablog (hmm talk about a jaundiced operative, the guy at A-Blog) and TNH was shameful. Because the party is just shreds. Now a week of flap over a Disney movie. Next week all the cables will paint the Clintons and the Dems as censors, scared of a movie.

They, Blahgs, rolled in their own excess. And I think that the Wilsons did as well. They made themselves into a Dem party product. Eww. Esp as they mean to do no favors for the American people. I bet anything Joe laughed on the phone to Valerie at night from Vegas. At the rubes. LOl Lightly politely, but he did laugh.

Of some mild interest was the weekend that it seemed to me Cheney and Rove were madly planting stories, against each other. Fun… but really: Strains of the violins and the smell of a burning city…

44. gong - 8 September 2006

It certainly does feed into the preference for partisanship rather than issues, with both Plame and the Disney thing.

45. NYCee - 8 September 2006

I think the CIA ex-ers who speak out, like Johnson, et al, who are even Republicans, or were, perhaps feel a certain freedom and need now to speak out after absorbing and perhaps/most likely enabling some of the deep shit the CIA does and has done. At times Larry Johnson seems to be more on a crusade as #1 fan of Valerie though.

The CIA has done a lot of damage to us as the tool for undeclared wars all over. Puts our hypocrisy meter way up there. Just look at Iran and Guatemala, two coups that Ike did with his shiny new CIA with terrible consequences, yet these are rarely, barely mentioned in the Ike legacy. In fact, kind of along the lines of what Nanette is saying, it is largely his fine line in parting, about the military industrial complex boogeyman (mighta shoulda cautioned on the CIA, too, eh?) that some on the Left now use so readily along with displaying a kind of special warm fuzziness for this much “better” GOPper of days gone by. There is a tendency to be too embracing and uncritical. But as far as using the info or engaging with these CIA Bush critics against the Iraq war, I dont so much mind it when they have something relevant to contribute informationwise. But as for the big smiley embrace of the right that tosses a bone and the ignoring of sane voices on the Left, some who have long been there, it is a shame and is indicative of the sorry state of Dem “moderate” lovin’ and the blogs that love them.

I will say I am very keen on Ray McGovern. I met him in person, at a resistance cinema event, and I have the sense he has always tried to work against the RW, coup-happy CIA/executive branch bullshit, or never approved of it, and he is very progressive on more than the Iraq war. I also caught him on DN often, as one of the few who really spoke out strongly against the war on Iraq, early on. Against the “Crazies” when a lot of Dems were enabling them. Although still, it is odd, I know, that he could have been in the CIA all those years. Even for him, there may be a bit of penance (he is Catholic, liberal sort) in his being such a vociferous critic these days. But I think he truly has a conscience.

46. NYCee - 8 September 2006

They – CIA ex-ers like Johnson – also got burned bigtime after serving in the CIA, and serving the RW all those years only to have BushCo turn around and use them as the CIA as the blame-deflecting respository for the failures of 9/11. The Dems certainly didnt do much to take the wagging finger elsewhere, either.

Mustve burned. Bad. Plame gave them an outlet for the outrage, dont you think? A rather safe way to speak out without skeletons tumbling out. I think criticism of the war grew after that. Not with McGovern or Goodman, but Johnson and Lange (sp?) et al. Beers, wasnt he one, too? I remember a panel before Congress with Johnson and two others, all Republicans, they claimed, taking the first critical step due to the Iraq war blame game focus on the CIA. This was before the Wilson incident.

47. NYCee - 8 September 2006

Whoops – meant to say “only to have BushCo turn around and use the CIA …” in first paragraph.

48. marisacat - 8 September 2006

Stop me before I vote again has a post on the Corn breathlessness for Valerie. seems to fit here.

Well I could not follow the scheisse but that I read fast. And there started to be a funny sort of ”buzz” about FDL late summer of ’05. So I started to observe. Watched it ramp up on Plame, wathced Hamsher bring in ReddHedd (Christy) who had been a recent poster at Dkos (she arrived during the Kerry campaign, at least to post, she started at the time of the posed hunting photos) … watched it ramp and ramp. And then the other “campaigns” they participated in… the spring ’06 “pundit” class that Working Assets had out here in SF… and so on.

I don’t care that they, these several sites, are party mouthpieces…but, I really dislike the missionary zeal, the preaching, the nasty thugism (why then oppose George and the Republicans?) the hypocrisy… and that they actively sell themselves as movement politics and in fact Saviors! Of! The! Nation! – and all of it.

Sorry just tons of fake shit being offloaded – for business reasons.

And the beards that assist DHinMI at TNH are jokes.

Sorry to be rude about people around Greater Blogistan. However, either you care about politics and peoples’ lives or, if you blather at these sites then you are a party shill. And too likely a ”paid for” party shill.

I am really death on this sort of thing.

49. NYCee - 9 September 2006

Well, the shill thing is the thing. One of the main things.

Last night the campaign mngr said to me, “they dont like Jonathan on Kos.” (I had mentioned my diary about MoveOn) I agreed, that particular “they” is evident. It has that chilling effect. She mentioned the Daou factor again… Paid by Hllary, yet blogging for her… where?

Yomama seems to spring from that shop. Always there to smear whenever Tasini pops up… and creates ludicrous diaries out of nothing to smear him all on his own. The framing by him and cohorts seems to be Tasini=nutcase and variations on that theme. (Cant recall the exact sophomoric words used) YOU sir, are NO Ned Lamont, no sir. And HIllary is NO Lieberman! Then the chiming chorus … I was thinking of voting for him, but after he said Lamont was more moderate than progressive, well, that does it!

And of course, he doesnt exist to the front page. Nor in that world of linked-up big blogs. The unification church of blogs? All must sing from the same book of psalms.

That is a message in itself. The deafening silence. The big fat omission.

Like outrage over voting, bankruptcy, Lebanon… even Iraq, really, which Kos is supposed to be opposed to, but problem is, to show true opposition, one must be willing to rail against the many go-alongs on votes, message, etc. The enablers. Cant do that while singing praises to the beauty of the Big Tent, it seems. Or when one needs to play “smart” rather than ethical.

The front page often comes from the back room, it seems. No?

50. Madman in the Marketplace - 9 September 2006


51. marisacat - 9 September 2006

yes that is pretty much it.

And, here is heresy… I really don’t think Kos opposes the war. Not.. really.

For one he is too in love iwth the military. He raises it beyond the civilian life. And has said that only the military should criticise the military.

Now, things are fully falling apart in this country, but one thing we did have for years was civilian leadership of the military.

And it is sliding away, imo. And I think Kos, who while clever is not genuinely intelligent, but can easily grasp what will benefit him… I think he knows, and likes, that we are driting to an American Fascism.

I have said before, call it Kerry’s war or Hillary’s war, or Wes Clark’s war and watch the justifications for that war roll out fast and furious.

52. NYCee - 11 September 2006

Marisa: (I know this thread is old, but I wrote this in response to our Kos discussion and then lost the time… and my DSL, temporarily…)

Yeah, it is narrowed by his limitations, his “oppositional” content re the Iraq war. It is very troops-based, very political. The suffering of the Iraqis, their views, he puts them thru the small end of the binoculars, doesnt he? For a true progressive and a child of Salvador wars, one would think he might have something to say about the Reagan military meddling, the death squads, the treatment of Salvador similar to so many LA countries that has left such a wake of suffering and a bad taste for to bad neighbor, Uncle Sam, who they too often came to know (Moonlighting as Dean of the School of the Americas ). This linkage could be seen in Guatemala, Honduras and of course, Nicaragua at the time. But … nothing from Kos.

He has no over-arching view or message of American power in high hypocritcal and imperialist mode, the capitalist crush. Therefore he likely abhors Chavez, as he cannot fathom what makes a Chavez. Nor does he really care.

He is a cool operator. Funny to hear him sometimes, with that thin little voice. Sounds mousey. Wispy. Wimpy. Rather Peter Beinart. Atrios has such a mild voice too. And Josh Marshall. It was a funny thing I noticed about the new guard when I used to listen to the Majority Report. Bill Scheer was the other regular from a blogs, from the less-travelled Liberal Oasis… the only one who actually had a voice. And a hearty laugh.

53. marisacat - 11 September 2006

I like Bill Scher… I used to read LO a lot.

He also does quite good editorials from time to time in the Minneapolis paper… hmmm The Star Tribune.

Oh Kos is just a business plan. And a tool for the party, as are all the sites that are tied together an diwth him him. The chorus.

Kind of sad.

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