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Sunday Open Thread… 24 September 2006

Posted by marisacat in Bolivia - Evo Morales, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Iran, Iraq War, South America, Viva La Revolucion!.

Budapest protests this past week. Protestor stands against the
water volleys from the police.
[AP photo via BBC]

Full text [English version] of the Evo Morales speech at the UNWe Need Partners, Not Bosses.  The last few grafs:

[F]inally president, the indigenous peoples, the poor come especially from a culture of life and not a culture of war, and this millennium will really have to be to defend live, to save humanity and if we want to save humanity we have the obligation to save the planet. The indigenous peoples live in harmony with mother earth, and not only in reciprocity, in solidarity, with human beings.

We feel greatly that the politics of hegemonist competitions are destroying the planet. I feel that all countries, social forces, international organisms are important, let us begin to debate truthfully, in order to save the planet, to save humanity.

This new millennium, the millennium that we find ourselves in needs to be a millennium of life, not of war, a millennium of people and not of empire, a millennium of justice and equality and that any economic policy needs to be orientated towards ending, of at least lessening these so-called asymmetric differences between one country and another country, those social inequalities.

We are not trying to implement policies that allow the economic humiliation or economic looting; when they cannot loot according to the norms, they use troops.

I want to ask with great respect, that it is important to withdraw troops from Iraq if we want to respect human rights, it is important to withdraw economic policies that allow the concentration of capital in only a few hands.

And for this, I feel president, that these events should be historical in order to change the world and to change economic models, interventionalist policies. Above all else we want them to be times that allow us to defend and save humanity

Full text of speech of Mahmoud Ahmadinedjad:  No Nation Should Have Superiority Over Another.

And I will pull some info forward from the last thread… NYCee mentioned that C-Span 2 is re running – at 12 Noon ET today – Chomsky on his now NO. 1 of the top 100 books at Amazon book, Hegemony or Survival… 😉

Other than that… Bloomberg says economy is fading as an election issue for the Dems.  Cannot be all true (and who are they dialing to get these answers?)… but my!! those gas prices are speeding downward. The article is peppered with poll numbers run 9/16 – 19.

Luckily the Dems can run against Chavez. Or Ahmadinedjad. 

That should work.  And Bill can still be Bar and Poppy Bush’s 5th son.  Dorr’s extra brother.  I know i am repetitious but the glued together aspect of the Bushes and the Clintons drives me bats.

On the other hand, California could be a leading indicator.  During the week I caught sight of the percentages that real estate is falling in the Bay Area counties.  Stunning.  Double digits everywhere.

   Code Pink on the Golden Gate Bridge this week...

The anti-war group Code Pink marches from both ends of the Golden Gate Bridge Thursday morning in protest against the war in Iraq, fouling the morning commute. At right, Kat McNulty, one of about 100 peaceful demonstrators, flashes a peace sign to passers-by.

I have no idea how they “fouled” the commute.  Not from the films I saw of the march.  They did have “No War” signs, smallish ones, pinned to themselves, and those were removed by troupers.  I suppose fear drivers would be reading.  And phoning.  And multitasking inside the car.  And whatever else…



1. TustonDAZ - 24 September 2006


I’m sorry to bitch, but goddam it sucks to live near the border sometimes. fucking morning BP helicopter buzzing my house like clockwork at 6:45 every morning, just went by…it sooo peaceful here and i”m having some coffee and a “smoke” looking out over the valley and river to the Santa Rita and San Cayatano mountains and WHUMP!WHUMP!WHUMP!WHUMP!etc. and wave to the fucking copilot as they head south 40 ft over head

At least they can see my white skin so they don’t decide to stop for a closer look…

2. NYCee - 24 September 2006

Ugh… Are you in Arizona? Ca? Texas? NM? I am intrigued by that dusty desertish landscape in those areas. I find it beautiful in its own way.

It’s probably tons more quiet here, in my back apt (not facing street) in Manhattan. I hear birds chirping in the morning. I used to hear a flute and a strong soprano voice practicing once in a while. A baby babbling beautifully and magnified into the courtyard every morning. When a drug dealer lived here, eons ago, it was Muthafucka, you aint my fathah, muthafucka…Shut the fuck up! Dont you touch me, Dont you touch me! (He and girlfriend FOUGHT LOUD and OFTEN, with 4 poor captive little kids all penned into the smaller, studio sized unit… all of us, really, just about all of us in 20 units, had been victims of his thievery at least once). When the squatters lived near it was bands practicing. But when the folks arent doing their various loud things – post 911 we did have LOUD CLOSE choppers – it is pretty peaceful. Of course, there is that muffled undersound of life in the city, like blood thru veins, but it gets to me in a blanketed way. Just heard a mild horn toot toot because I am paying attention. When my boyfriend began coming here he used to point out the sound of the train passing underground periodically, which I had never even noticed.

3. TustonDAZ - 24 September 2006

I live 19 miles north of the AZ-Sonora border, cercita al Nogales. Le conoces?

I just tried to find a link to a LSF slide show of the area around my home but I’m getting a “cannot find server” message…

Here’s a link to the Tumacacori Wilderness.
That literally is my back yard….I’m the last house on a dead end road perched on the foothills to Mt. Tumacacori itself (named for a bench where Imitator sat down)

People have lived and traveled by here along the banks of the Santa Cruz River (which flows North like the nile!) continuously for 12K+ years. Goods and People and Water from the south to the north un-interuppted since the times of Mastadon’s. Until now.

The largest and oldest medicine wheel I’ve ever seen (and I’ve been blessed to see a few good ones) is here. Pictograms and Jaguars and Eagles and “gossip rocks” for the acorns.

This is Azlan.

BTW I have no problem with crime here eventhough I live in a “high trafficking” area and I see migrantes y burros siempre (burros are the name for the young mestizos con las mochillas de la griefa) and they don’t bother me for anything but water (they ask for food, phone and rides too)

It sucks that I can’t give food, but its problematic because then you get known as a “way station” and I don’t need that to happen to my home…

4. TustonDAZ - 24 September 2006

For the benefit of the NSA data spiders out there I don’t give rides either…but water is life and I don’t care if that puts me in jeopardy with the Feddies, I won’t deny anyone water in the desert (it is also State law)

5. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 September 2006

I’m sorry about that slideshow link … we’re having some problems w/ links to parts of the database on LSF. We’ve got a guy trying to work on it, but we’ve moved hosts a couple of times, had a couple of different people code things and EE has been updated a couple of times, and the updates seem to have broken things.

Or maybe not … I’m clueless beyond simple html tags.

6. TustonDAZ - 24 September 2006

Oh MitM don’t sweat it…. I’m totally psyched its still there at all…

BTW I can’t stand Bill, but I am totally enjoying this Faux shit!

7. NYCee - 24 September 2006

I realize I said the Chomsky was on Saturday… Glad you put it fp, Marisa. I knew it was Sunday, but my fingers went with Saturday.

Just caught a last snip of Stephanopoulis quizzing Frist on TORTURE. Here is what I heard:

George S: Okay, Im going to try one LAST time: Do you or do you not think water boarding is torture?

Frist (or Mr Undertaker, to me): I … I … like I said, Im not going to get into the particulars of what is very sensitive … we have to protect Americans from very dangerous threats… (smile, smile)…

I really paraphrased on the Frist, but it was the gist. Ducking for cover under national security (blanket)… Again and again, apparently. Is it safe to come up now and spit some more pablum, George?

Oh, we are in trouble. These deals suck. Bush and his signing statements, the wording of that deal. Serious substituted for severe, was one thing the senators “won.” Not prolonged. How long then? Habeus Corpus? I am sure Amy will have something in depth on this deal in the coming days and I suspect a good look at Chavez, in light of all the current MSM attention, most of it negative. I bet she will feel compelled to show the other side to counteract the Dem/MSM bs.

Charlie Rangel – Word. Of course FOREIGNERS can, should, and MUST criticize this president in harsh and clear language and they are free to joke too, buddy. They live under threat of death and regime change by this sociopath and friends, or havent you noticed? They are free to do so and they are urged to do so by many AMERICANS because you and yours have NOT said what you must say as this nation is burning us and others. Someone has to say it! Clinton doesnt. He sees AIDS, he does not see America burning itself and others. He is in the rarified air up there. (Then what would wifey say about her role? Her stances. On the issues?) Take a fucking leaf, bro.

Today I heard on Cspan, from a caller, that some survey identified that 70% of those who can but do not vote would vote for the liberal or Democrat, as he put it.

Sad. Speaking of Clinton, they are triangulating to the right… yet, the public is further left. I do not give the public a pass, either. Others are dying (figuratively and literally) for the vote… Yeah, the media is shit and a lot of pols are too and so is the system, but get a fucking minute or two to do your fucking homework on the issues for a few days and hand in your assignment every few years… Damn. A lot of people just dont connect political life to their lives. They are part of the problem. If more people voted Dem or Green or Socialist, whatever, from the Left labelled offerings, the Dems would most likely feel more emboldened to contrast more leftward from the Repubs. (Whoa! The masses are mighty and the memo is move left!) Of course, if more Dems contrasted themselves from the Repubs, more people might vote … Both may be true.

The caller made the point that just as all Americans must pay taxes, for the common good, why not make voting mandatory, for the public good… Interesting take…

8. Deepest Throat - 24 September 2006

Looks like BooMan has gotten into the SYFPH gig too by citing a article from the NYT:

Since the president’s re-election, loathers of George W. Bush have had no shortage of cudgels with which to club him: a distressingly belated response to Hurricane Katrina; an experiment in warrantless wiretapping; a modest parade of indictments; a nation-building project so distant from its original intent that our troops are now caught in a proto-civil war. One can certainly understand how these developments — and Bush’s correspondingly rotten approval ratings — have emboldened the opposition. The problem is that these developments have also made the president’s critics more susceptible to rhetorical excess, and Bush, like his predecessor, already has an impressive gift for bringing out the yawping worst in those who disagree with him. Otherwise reasonable people go slightly berserk on the subject of his motives; on the subject of his morality, the hinged fall off their door frames and even the stable become unglued. This is both an aesthetic problem and a substantive one. Substantively, it means gerrymandering evidence so that inconvenient facts don’t make it onto the map. And aesthetically, it means speaking in a compromising and not wholly credible tone.

Which Boo then says “I guess I’ll just shut my pie hole.”

There you have it, an KosKlone following the lead since DD’s and Psi’s attempt failed. So now it will be done in a softer tone.

9. marisacat - 24 September 2006

Apparently Delaware Dem thinks I started MCat due to hating him.

LOL. No.

I started it as the thugs are everywhere. I needed somewhere to post. And, Madman pushed me a little. I did not yet see that Word Press would act as a shell and it would be harder for them to run DOS attacks.

And what I Feel for the thugs… multiple!, it is all of them, is revulsion. They are anti-democratic. And just tired sick dogs running around to beat up on p eople and support a tired sick party..

Honestly NYCee, I think even with cover, the Dems WANT to be moving rightward. And I think it comes from the very top. And further, I think being tongue tied, many of them NEVER available for TV spots (tho they are always “working on that”) and so on comes from the top.

It always leaks out over this or that issue that they have decided to say nothing ”now”, or will roll out that issue strategy ”later”.

Eventually it is a mix of what they want (go right young man!) and some hodge podge plan… and I DO think that her run is the triangulation that determines much in the day to day.

10. NYCee - 24 September 2006

Ahhh… nice, Tuston. That pic is beautiful. I could see your description, too… of life. Happenings, decisions to make, vistas…

Unfortunately, Arizona, while beautiful, is also plagued with … McCain. As is the nation.

And, uh, ugh…. Speaking of torture and the tortured (in more ways than one) just caught Senator McMumbles/McCain on Face the Nation.

That he is called a friend of Democrats, too Democrat-leaning, blah blah… a moderate… is such a shame. The Kos hordes, about 2/3 (you could count the comments, but there was a poll, possibly by moi, cant recall) were all tingly for him in 2004 till he HUGGED Bush. (I get down on my knees and pray: May every rightwinger from the Dem tent or embraced by tent fans either hug or kiss Bush – please, please, please get intimate, publicly, with the fucker – because, apparently, that is the hug/kiss o death to your weasly and/or clueless Dem fans… Not issues, just kisses for Bush. And hugs.)

Anyway, McCain was fucking awful, as Ive seen him before, like last week and last year and forever. He was confronted by a WaPo reporter and Scheiffer on the catastrophe of Iraq, the war he loves, in light of the recent NIE report on terrorism increasing due to WoT/Iraq. (From the Guardian: Iraq war created a terrorist flood, American spymasters warn Bush) And he was confronted on torture, and his dancing with BushCo…

All very tortured, his performance.

On both issues the “moderate maverick” was a miserable mess of a mistaken man made to mumble (aliteration is mine, mine, MINE!) and stutter and pause and cast his eyes down because of the miserable hawk hypocrite he is, who, try as he might, cannot make right from the wrong he endorses and nips and tucks at the edges of … he is a dissembler. He is a playuh. He is so not a fucking maverick for human rights. He is so not rational moderate. He says the most horrible things. Does anyone fucking listen, “moderates”? If so, are head and heart engaged? Thank god the motherfucker knows how to hug… a sociopath. Thank god for that, is all I can say.

After hearing how bad it all is, he offered:

Must increase troop levels, oh, he, the great tactician, was urging that five years ago…. Yes, difficult, Iraq, but worse if we dont see this thru to a win… two steps forward …one back. That last is a direct quote. You know he has these pat sayings stored up… great save. End on that. Next?

Was told the guard is stretched out…

In response, he just marvelled at how great these guys are, just a rarin to serve and how well they do serve! (Diversionary move – a big bright gold star for the marvelous grist the guard has become will save McMumbles on this one … bright shiny object, that star…) Yes, and the NG say: stretch me to breaking, I shall gladly serve in this misbegotten mess! He indicates this is their sentiment. Refry me and send me back, Senator McMumbles! Ah live and die for your motherfucking gold star. And kill for it too.

On to torture…

I am so sickened by his performance on this, I cant conjure up the words… Okay, it was like:

WaPo Reporter: What is serious v severe? Why couldnt you get the language in for, eg, no waterboarding, etc…? What is prolonged v not prolonged? How much time is okay? Is standing for two days okay, like you had to do in Vietnam? How can you trust the president … he did a signing statement on your previous bill, what makes you think he wont on this? Why couldnt you put specifics IN the legislation? Isnt the intell no good from torture, yet the president says he has gotten good intell from it. Do you agree with him? In what cases, then?

McCain sputtered and grasped … tremors noted under the surface. He shucked and jived. It was miserable. Utterances I recall, paraphrased, for the most part:

McMumbles: Uh, well, we culled things out, we couldnt put things in…The president, I believe, spoke to us in good faith… dealt in good faith, we can find out how they have defined what theyve done and challenge it in Congress or court, if they go too far… well, uh, uh, like hypothermia or these, uh, stress positions… if they have done that (duh! They have fucking killed people, asshole!) … Um, uh, well, I only know what the president said in his speeches regarding good intel gotten from their, uh, tactics… look, we do not want to end the program, there are some very BAD people, but we kept the Geneva Conventions intact, yes, yes, we did, we DID that! (very proud, solid footing again when he says that. No, solid cover… for now). Look, (No, lookee out, here comes a big RW save) I know the New York Times and the ACLU doesnt like what we did, but we have done a great thing here, we saved the Geneva Conventions, if we didnt do this, then, say, IRAN (Uh oh, he used the IRAN EXAMPLE last week, too!) could capture our troops and then say they too dont need to abide by the Geneva Conventions…

Oh fuck. Ahmadinejad could fucking do a signing statement, you twit! No? Oh right, we are exceptional. Only we can be hypocrites in bright plummage display.

I loathe this man. He is a sick fuck. Period.

Oh, ps – The obligatory dissing of Chavez. Likes Schumer’s word: despicable. McCain says Hugo wants to be next Castro, and Venezuelans should do a reality check and look at how the poor Cubans live, rethink their support of Chavez and where he is taking them… hell in a handbasket.

I checked Face the Nation for transcipts (not too familiar with the show…) but they dont give them. However, Schieffer waxes in awe of US and anti ANTI Chavez. “Blowhard.” “Villain” We ARE better. If you want, read his commentary here. Oh, and be sure to note, luckily, thankfully, Bob speaks for ALL of us!

It irritated all of us last week when two of the world’s leading blowhards — President of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and the leader of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, insulted America and its leaders.

But it was probably a good thing for us because the more the world sees and hears these two, the quicker they will understand just how awful they — and what they represent — are.

Hmmm, how to title the link?

Bob Shieffer Sucks.

11. NYCee - 24 September 2006

God. That last post was loooong. Blame it on Schieffer/Face the Nation – No transcripts. And McCain… for all my ranting excesses. 🙂

12. CSTAR - 24 September 2006

Re: “because the more the world sees and hears these two, the quicker they will understand just how awful they — and what they represent — are.”

In fact almost the opposite is true. Most of the world is in agreement with what they actually said, regardless of what they may actually “represent.” And what they actually represent most of the world doesn’t care anyway. My guess as to what they represent as seen from the “rest of the world” is something like this: In the case of Chavez, it’s a massive redistribution of (oil) wealth with a somewhat archaic latin american caudillismo and in the case of Ahmedinjedad it’s Iran’s reaction to Israeli expansionism. “Oye hijito, esto no es problema mio.”

13. NYCee - 24 September 2006

Honestly NYCee, I think even with cover, the Dems WANT to be moving rightward. And I think it comes from the very top. And further, I think being tongue tied, many of them NEVER available for TV spots (tho they are always “working on that”) and so on comes from the top.

Well, Marisa, some of them do naturally move rightward, but what I am saying is not “cover” but push. IF there was a huge mandate from a huge massive bloc of voters to go leftward, they would be pushed that way. For some, it would simply be to keep their jobs. Those are the rightward leaning or non-principled. Some would more naturally go with the current anyway. Overall, I do think, regardless of each pols motivations, it would push the Democrats, and even Republicans to the left. And if there was that much of a public push, some of those righties would probably be replaced with new blood challengers. The public is terribly absent from the process, and therefore, also responsible for the mess we are in.

I do so agree with you that there is a lot of absence too from Dems where there should not be. They are either okay with the rw frame, or too inept or timid to show up and speak out. And yes, it must often come from the top. Harry Reid is definitely rightward and a lay low sort of guy.

This is also a media problem; the media encourages this absenteeism. They should force them to answer to the public. They could invite on UNafraid, Left leaning voices – experts, professionals, scholars, workers’ organizers, etc to speak out on the issues, have reps from the public itself to have exchanges. And so, now that we have exposed these issues, on these points, what say the Dems? That would have to follow. And the Dems would have to start showing up.

In other words, if the Dems wont use the public square and use it well, then fucking use it, media, on the issues they have run from but are essential to we, the people. Let others frame the debate cogently, meaningfully, if the Dems wont. The Dems would be left looking ridiculous and irresponsible. It would, again, push them.

Of course, the media is corporatized. Until such a time as it would be normal to have a show like DN on prime time network/cable TV, we likely will not have this much saner use of the public square or behavior from the Dems.

14. marisacat - 24 September 2006

oh I agree on push. I mean, that is how we ever got anything. Across decades. FDR had Socialist, CPUSA, anarchists, rising union movements, rising issues of apartheid/race and so on…

But currently even when there is clear evidence of a desperate yearning for populism, clear evidence of liberal left (until systematically crushed over and over, online at the BBB was ALWAYS more liberal that the capos… LOL) the party runs herd on all of that.

One reason I say, it is up to “the people”. But I think it will take starvation. Food riots.

Currently they can still be bought off with lower gas. FOr a few critical months.

And the Dems still chase elusive Indies. I just don’t see motivation from either side to draw those people to the polls in big numbers. But “there they go again”… Because they KNOW it will not work = imo. They have not been interested in gaining a growing popular vote, not for decades. These are crucial differences.

Democrats see independent voters, who continue to register disapproval of Bush and Congress, as the key to victory. Republicans, citing low turnout in many primaries this year, believe many of those independents will not vote in November and are focused on mobilizing their own base.

Oddly enough in that article there is some fool at some university who admits to have been thinking a pick up of up to 25 seats in the House. What a scream! Never gonna happen.

The decline in gas prices has diminished the significance of an issue that has the power to move voters to the Democrats.

In May, when average gasoline prices were $2.95 a gallon, 15 percent of Americans in a Washington Post-ABC News survey cited the issue as the single most important in determining their vote.

An ABC News poll in early September, when the average price of a gallon was $2.73, showed that just 5 percent of those surveyed cited it as their most important issue. Gasoline prices have fallen even further since then.

15. NYCee - 24 September 2006

Yes, but let us preventively attack them. Just IMAGINE what Chavez/Ahmadinejad MIGHT do! That is the beauty of preventive attacks. You just imagine and make it so… justifiable. IF you are American.

It worked so well with Saddam, no?

16. Arcturus - 24 September 2006

Evo on Democracy Now!

. . . I want to take advantage of this opportunity to call on the people of the United States to help us in our efforts to extradite two [inaudible] people who practiced genocide, who were corrupt under previous administrations and who today are free here in the United States. . . . Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada, former president, who in 2003 was responsible for the death of over a hundred people killed by gunfire, along with his minister, Carlos Sanchez Berzain. We’re trying now to use all of the instruments at our disposal to extradite him, but it’s not moving forward. It’s running into some resistance here in the United States. A government that says it fights against terrorism, for human rights, against corruption, it’s not conceivable that this person would still be here. So we ask the people, the government and all the institutions of human rights to help with this.

did you see they tried to strip search the Venezuelan foreign miminister at JFK?

habeas under attack

17. marisacat - 24 September 2006

I think we have moved on to a claim of “apology” for detaining the FM of Venzuela and prattle about ”terrorism”.

We just sent a little message is my take. Nasty little message…

A Bi Partisan message. 😉

18. Arcturus - 24 September 2006

yea .. vewy vewy sowwy, no doubt

(please, if you can, look at the Justice Project plea .. this crap of restricting habeas under “Terror” legislation started w/ Clinton — & now they’re attaching it to Dod appropriations — you know, ‘support the troops, fuck the Constitution’

19. marisacat - 24 September 2006

oh I did!.. when you linked to your site, what? two days ago I went and read… thanks so much for linking to both.

I will pull it up into a post probably on Monday.

And I just heard some damned Democrats meuling about how THEY are the party of the Constitution.

Nein! They are NOT… LOL.

Clinton did enormous damage. In fact I hope some people ‘out there in the dark’… who caught on to Chomsky thru Chavez really do read him. I heard him again on Cspan today. ANd he mentions that in ’94 Clinton “militarised the border”. And I did watch it happen… as I went across the border twice a year for 5 years from ’93 – ’97. The change was immense.

20. TustonDAZ - 24 September 2006

Howdy Companeros!

I just took a drive to my sister’s cafe, the gathering grounds for brunch and passed through the Border Patrol checkpoint at the Palo Parado exit (which is really funny, when you consider Palo Pardo means “hard on” in spanish) and thought the supreme waste of tax payers money that these little “retenes” are

My local paper has a new series, starting today on the shibboleth of “securing the border”

AZ Daily Star

It stretches between two seas and slithers across four states. It climbs mountains, traverses canyons and slices through cities.
Most of it, including long stretches in Arizona, California and New Mexico, is vast and open, marked by wooden posts linked with sagging barbed wire, cement obelisks or nothing at all. In some cities, 10- to 15-foot-tall fences protect it. For 1,254 miles in Texas, it becomes a plodding, chocolate-colored river called the Rio Grande.
The line itself is midfield in the daily duel of brains and brawn between the thousands who cross it illegally and the uniformed men and women who patrol it.
The U.S. House of Representatives wants 700 miles of border fencing. The Senate decided last week to consider the same proposal, four months after passing a bill to build 370 miles of fence and nearly 500 miles of vehicle barriers. The president has pledged 6,000 new U.S. Border Patrol agents.
The varied solutions share a common element: They won’t stop illegal immigration

I gotta go, (princess katterfly is demanding equal access to the ‘puter and we’ve only got one in the house), but I’ll try to post some shyte I got on the SBI (secure border initiative) later

21. marisacat - 24 September 2006

DiFi was a big mover in militarising the CA/Sud border.

I really think they militarised, in a sense unconsciously, as it is a graphic illustration of imposing will on the real reality. There ain’t no border. Just land and people.

I just heard a phrase “rectal cranial inversion”. On a real estate show in So Cal of all things.

Bingo. The Border in the White US mind set.

22. Arcturus - 24 September 2006

I don’t have the links handy, but the Clinton admin made a conscious CHOICE to drive migrants away from the urabn routes & into the mountain & desert areas. Their own docs talk about how increased deaths from this policy would act as a deterrent. Guess that works as well as the death penalty . . .

rectal cranial inversion indeed!

23. NYCee - 24 September 2006

Yes, I think you may have a good point there, now that you point it out, Marisa. Never thought of it, but it makes sense. Probably true that there are a good number of Dems (like the GOP) who dont want to draw big numbers of the electorate. Scary what people power might unleash. They are cozier, some of them, with the corporate, rarified air up there, not populist rabble and demands … Better to fight the GOP, parsing over the slim pickins, the narrow mush meat in the Independent MIDDLE.

That what you mean?

Funny how Independent has come to mean that sort of “moderate.” Couldnt an Independent also be far to the left or right? But I guess it is being used more and more to mean the middle folk who vote.

But, again, I am not talking about what the Dems (DLCed) want, I am talking about what the people need to do. If there WERE (not “was” as I wrote before… I am getting sloppier all the time!) a huge mandate, they would have to get out of the way or change their tune. Out of their hands.

My ideaR for the media doing its job, acting as public square, was pure fantasy. I sometimes do that … just talk as I would like things to be, not as they are. Especially on a Sunday…;-)

It is funny that you can switch your channel and get Chomsky talking uncensored on Cspan or Democracy Now, ditto many other folks on the Left, and then switch to the sanitized corporate news of the networks and cable.

Its like eating fresh picked lettuce in a salad v eating salad from a can.

Salad from a can…

24. marisacat - 24 September 2006

well… even tho it is plain old Dem thugdom… kind of interesting how fast they boxed up a new medium.

Something will have to come along to get people PAST the bullshit. I think plenty are – but there is almost no one to vote for. And really the Dems re working their party around nationally declaring, thru Bob Casey, that they will now sell out women as well as everyone else… I mean who is left to sell out?

Imagine had they BUILT on the 60s. Or really built on FDR. Or never let up with WPA and worked it thru out hte SOuth, developed a populist dialogue with the S. You may not win in states but you can build popular vote numbers (more easily than in some SW and Mt states, they keep thinking some “other” region will do it for them). You cannot win without the S. had they been invested, really invested in the New Deal post war changes… They would ahve a strong viable coalition.

They never were interested. Small pockets… the odd person here or there.

About it.

I still think it will take food riots. starvation.

I mean look at how invested in a broad based coaltion the harlem 20 are. Not at all. And nasty little shits they all are too, and displayed it. Or ignored it… But they want more soul food from Bill.

Pretty rancid stuff.

25. Deepest Throat - 24 September 2006

I take it only white people from foriegn countries can come here and criticize our President. Didn’t George Galloway who is an MP come here to the US and do a book tour and have a debate with Christopher Hitchens at CUNY one year ago, Sept 14 2005? That is ok, that was the past, so we all can forgot about that event, so lets move along and bash Chavez.

26. marisacat - 24 September 2006

well… we like to pretend that Britain is a partner in the Imperium – we let them pick the color of the poodle leash.

We are really really sure that S America to the Rio Grande is OURS.

So.. you know. The whole Spartacus thing.


27. Nanette - 24 September 2006

I don’t watch TV much but this morning my mom had on that CBS Sunday show.. you know the one that used to have Charles Karault?(sp). Well, it had some other old guy on there this morning whose name I don’t know but anyway…. I think they are really pushing for war with Iran (and maybe Venezuala too!), but in a more subtle… and if you ask me, effective… way than the shouters do.

I only caught pieces cuz I was in and out, but in one segment they had this big thing on WWII and the veterans and them finally getting a memorial – lots of stories, and glory and guts and patriotism and saving the world from evil and so on.

Nothing new with that, but the next time I came into the room the old guy was giving his sign off speech and talking about how Ahmadinedjad was like a Hitler mini-me, and how the Venezuala guy was like some other dictator and whatever else, I forget… but still, it was just chilling how they wove that all together, no doubt trying to get to the older crowd to gain support for war. To save the world, of course.


28. CSTAR - 24 September 2006

From “El Nacional” (Caracas)

In McCain’s opinion Chávez’, actions in New York is the perfect argument to accelerate Bolton’s confirmation. He characterized Bolton as someone ready and able to respond to situations such as those caused by Chavez at the UN.

Doesn’t Bolton claim that you can lop off some floors from the UN without much difference? Realistically, this is hyperpole at least as bad as calling Bush “Míster Diablo”. Actually I think Chavez should call him Míster Danger, which is the name of a character from the Venezuelan (and Latin American) classic Novel “Doña Bárbara.

29. TustonDAZ - 24 September 2006

Somos chingadoes, muy, muy chingadoes…

It looks like Boeing got the contract for the new secuirity system. They’re going to erect another 1200 useless surveillance towers;

From their Huntington Beach facility, Boeing Co. engineers crafted a plan to line the Mexican border with 1,800 towers equipped with sensors that can detect when a person steps onto American soil.

Infrared cameras will sense the body heat of possible intruders, and radars will track vehicles that may carry illegal immigrants and drugs into the United States. On Thursday, Boeing’s plan won a key contract, one that could lead to a virtual fence along 7,500 miles of the U.S.’ borders with Mexico and Canada.

Homeland Security officials said Thursday that the initial three-year contract was worth $67 million and called for Boeing to build its tower-based system along a 28-mile stretch of the border near Tucson. But analysts said the project could be expanded and total more than $2.5 billion.


When the project is completed, Boeing said, its towers would leave little of the now-porous borders undetected, creating a high-tech fence longer than the Great Wall of China.

LA Times

Ohhh boy I can’t wait!

Thank white jesus I’m on the non-mongol, country club side of the wall.

I’m sure those pesky mud bloods won’t bother me now.

Its gonna work, right?!
Bushco will protect me from insidious latin menace, right?!
I’m not just paying for snake oil right?


Given the Homeland Security Department’s history of waste and spiraling costs in past procurements, Congress plans to keep a close watch as the department brings the private sector in to help secure 7,500 miles of the nation’s borders.
Larry Halloran, deputy staff director for the House Government Reform Committee, said Chairman Tom Davis, R-Va., is concerned about the vagueness of the Secure Border Initiative solicitation and doubts the department’s ability to handle the $2 billion procurement.
“When you have a complex procurement under way to integrate fences, sensors, UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicles], and other technology, it takes a procurement capacity we haven’t seen yet,” Halloran said.


The April 11 request for proposals included few details about how the program should work, other than requiring the contractor to “determine the optimum mix of personnel, technology and infrastructure.” The indefinite-delivery, indefinite-quantity contract will be for at least three years with three possible one-year extensions.
A highly critical July 27 report from the Government Reform Committee on Homeland Security’s contracting practices said SBInet is so poorly defined the department risks repeating the same mistakes — waste, abuse, overcharges and mismanagement — it has made on past procurements. The report cited a warning from Homeland Security’s inspector general that programs started without strict requirements often see their costs balloon.


No lawmakers are calling on Homeland Security to abandon or change the solicitation this late in the process…
Robert Lee Maril, an East Carolina University sociology professor who studies border security issues, is also worried that contractors will cut corners and put their bottom line before the nation’s security. Without enough oversight, Maril fears SBInet will end up just like the Integrated Surveillance Intelligence System (ISIS), a $429 million program begun in 1997 to install cameras and sensors on the border. A 2004 General Services Administration report found that its components often were improperly installed, not installed at all, or detecting numerous false alarms.
“The end result [will be] another ISIS, with cameras rotting in the wind,” Maril said. “I don’t see anything that indicates that won’t happen again.”


“Homeland Security is abdicating its responsibility,” Maril said. “Where is the vision and leadership? They’re tossing it to contractors and saying, ‘You come up with the solutions.’ It’s unheard of.”
Homeland Security officials were unavailable to comment by press time.

federal times

Oh yeah baby, its on.

Right now I’m the only one here with checkpoints and national guardsmen from kentucky showing up in uniform, en masse at the local grocery store, but just wait you guys can get to enjoy it soon too….

On that cheery note, I’ll say toodle-loo for now; PK want’s to spend some “quality time” (rrrwrrrR!)

Al rato, vatos

30. bayprairie - 25 September 2006

TustonDAZ cited:

…Given the Homeland Security Department’s history of waste and spiraling costs in past procurements, Congress plans to keep a close watch



this explains why Harry Reid has been keeping his powder dry!


31. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 September 2006

they’ll keep a close watch on how much they can siphon off for their own cronies.

Especially that hack Reid.

32. Deepest Throat - 25 September 2006

TustonDAZ, I know what you are talking about. I have been through those check points and I can tell ya, what used to be nothing, has now turned into a nightmare. I was half alseep in the backseat as I was leaving Laredo and when we got to checkpoint, I didn’t here the question, so my father answered for me, but when I looked at the migra, he gave me one dirty look.

I like the old days, they asked are you a US citizen, you say and your on your way, unless the dog finds goes wild finding drugs. Now you find surveillance cameras on the highway aimed at your car (4 on each side) when you drive into the border town and soilders with their big guns at checkpoints and people with control issues. I had to go to Laredo in a rush to visit a family member who was in the hospital. See, if I don’t trim my beard, I start looking like your sterotypical “mojado.” There have been plenty of times people thought I was a bus boy, a gardner, etc, so when I when I was leaving Laredo, I didn’t have a chance to shave, and that is why I got that dirty look from that “migra.” He must have thought I was holding my parents as hostages because they were driving a Lexus. You know, there are no such thing as an upper middle class Hispanic, if they are, they are all drug dealers.

I can no longer call Laredo home, it is not my town, not a town that now resembles one metropolitan detention center. Sad thing is, I don’t think the people there realize they are voluntarily allowing themselves to be detained. When SBI fully takes effect and the walls that will kill off the border towns, it will be at that time they will realize they are the detainees.

Tuston, you might be interested in this series – For Whom “The Wall” Profits: I

For Whom “The Wall” Profits: II

For Whom “The Wall” Profits III: The Deepwater Model

33. Who survives? « Marisacat - 25 September 2006

[…] A snip from a comment of Deepest Throat: I can no longer call Laredo home, it is not my town, not a town that now resembles one metropolitan detention center. Sad thing is, I don’t think the people there realize they are voluntarily allowing themselves to be detained. When SBI fully takes effect and the walls that will kill off the border towns, it will be at that time they will realize they are the detainees. […]

34. IMPEACH! - they won’t - DE FUND THE WARS! - they won’t - Then: WITHHOLD THE VOTE! « Marisacat - 16 July 2007

[…] Beirut, DC Politics, 2008 Election, Lie Down Fall Down Dems, Iraq War. trackback A partial repost from September 24, 2006, the week Morales, Chavez, Lula, Bachelet and Ahmadinejad spoke at the […]

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