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Mediocre Romanovs 27 September 2006

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, DC Politics, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.

    This toy is made from Rubberwood, with the figure on the top made from segments strung together on a strong nylon cord and small metal loops.

And Condi Rice doesn’t like to muck anything up.  – Katie Couric, Couric & co

What is left to say?  I have managed to miss the Couric splash on CBS.  I caught a few minutes of the first two shows.  Under-under-whelmed.

Basically the money is just too big today. IIRC her contract is for 50 million.  Or 150 million.  And, there are no constraints on the excesses of media…  Well, no, there are some.  I saw the PBS program Monday night on Marie Antoinette.  It was so-so.  We do seem to be in our own era of 3 ft high wigs, utter ignorance of the world beyond the manicured gardens and the Petits Trianons.  I think often of Fitzgerald’s Diamond as Big as the Ritz

However, PBS and the government did censor the depiction of 215 year old political cartoons, due to graphic sexual nature.

Some things, it seems, are not for us. 

Charles Pierce takes a good swipe at what is considered acceptable fare:

WHAT WOULD MURROW THINK? Are they trying to make Edward R. Murrow rise from the earth and bite off their faces? The Couric Experiment at CBS is a transparent nightly disaster, but Katie’s interview with Condoleeza Rice on 60 Minutes last night makes her newscast look like See It Now.

And just when you thought there were no depths of sycophancy and general fluffitude to which she could not dive, Couric suits up, climbs into the bathysphere, and descends into the realm of sightless fish on her new blog. They should just leave this stuff off the Internets and let Katie scrawl it on the cover of her History notebook during study hall.

–Charles P. Pierce

What is good for one side of the pond is fine fine fine for the other. We are outdoor circusso trans-Atlantique, so global!  I swear, this makes the old time charity balls in NY look trim and ship shape.  And to think, Bill still had time for the little people.  The Harlem 20…  and they bought bought bought that he reads blogs.  ROTF, but not  laughing…  And then several of them wrote wrote wrote about the CGI effluvia.  Dog whistles, by the gross, cheap.  Next to the Bible.

That CGI slobber did peak for me when I caught a panel moderated by Brokaw with some Wal-Mart persona, Rupert (FOB, Friend of Billary) and another global thief … the panel was on poverty.

Someone find a god, we need help.  Or, find a Spartacus.  We need a rallying point of sanity and resistance. I’ve long said the Black Power Salute at the Olympic Games was a sad (and yet still wonderful) moment.  We saw something passing. 

We are literally drowning in global feudalism. And then, led by our political leaders, we celebrate our masters. Worse, we call them “good”.

I think the difference now is that we drive to the plantation (throw light rail and a transportation infrastructure on the pyre with nationalised health care) and they let us buy appurtenances for the hovel.  On which we are allowed a mortgage.  It all feels more than shakey.  And no one “scary smart” is on view. Plenty of scary, tho. 

To support our mirages rising from quicksand, we demand that much of the world starve.  And be pushed off the land. [link from Arcturus]

Hucksters, high and low, and the fools they need to survive.  It’s a partnership.

The Associated Press/LONDON

Dow just 53.59 from all-time high close

SEP. 27 7:10 A.M. ET The Dow Jones industrial average is just 53.59 points away from its all-time high close, going into today’s trading. In pre-market trading, Dow Jones futures are up 3 points, S&P 500 futures rose 0.5 of a point, and Nasdaq futures rose 2.8 points.

On Tuesday, the Dow industrials closed at its highest level of the year, as investors reacted to a consumer confidence survey that appeared to show an economy not floundering as some had feared, but not growing too much to spur inflationary pressure. The Dow climbed 93 points, the S&P 500 rose by nearly 10 points and the Nasdaq Composite rose 12.3 points



This November, will the public demand more from Congress, the first branch of government and the linchpin of American democracy?

Boy.  I have no idea.  Never could see a majority, no way no how… I don’t necessarily see a lot on offer to bring out the Independent voter.  Some of the Dem base has to be peeling away.  Few issues are being delineated, the leadership say little to rally the troops.

I caught Curran of The Roll Call on C-Span the other morning – the only big GOTV operation is Ickes’ the September Group.  I suppose MoveOn will do some, DFA will do some.  But ACT and others working the ’04 election disbanded.  I remembered that after ’04 Andy Stern of SEIU said they would never work the elections again in the same way.  They wanted to concentrate efforts to build union membership.  It was their assessment that the 75K margin in OR for Kerry could be traced back to union households.

hmmm.  Possibly a good chance that ’04 will be seen as a watershed.  

I smell some panic in this.  It sure gets old. Seems Delaware Dem did not deliver with his knock out thug punches.  Maybe he does not finger his rosary beads enough.

If you cannot rally the troops with ideas and vision, brow beat them.  They moved machine politics online.  I used to think it was just very, very bad news… I am beginning to think it has done actual damage.  It certainly has been degrading, and is itself degraded.

Kos shoves and pushes, but he really does not say anything.  More vicious rhetoric.


UPDATE, 4:15

Madman emailed this, pdf (loaded fast, and I am on dial up) of the Clarke memo to Condi, dated Jan 25, 2001.  On al Qaeda.

Make something of it Democrats.



1. bayprairie - 27 September 2006

I saw this in a front page post by Kos last evening:

Notice how Republicans seem to suddenly be on the defensive on national security issues? That’s what happens when Democrats go on the offensive.

Democratiks on offense?

Deal Is Likely on Detainees but Not on Eavesdropping

Democrats, who have found themselves on the losing end of the national security debate the past two national elections, said the changes to the bill had not yet reached a level that would cause them to try to block it altogether.

“We want to do this,” said Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the Democratic leader. “And we want to do it in compliance with the direction from the Supreme Court. We want to do it in compliance with the Constitution.”

Great Job on”offense” Senator Reid. Nice to know what you’ll be hiding behind, also. Brings to mind:

Douglas “Wrong Way” Corrigan (January 22, 1907–December 9, 1995) was an American aviator born in Galveston, Texas. In 1938, after a transcontinental flight from Long Beach, California, to New York, he flew from Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn, New York, to Ireland, even though he was supposed to be returning to Long Beach. He claimed that his unauthorized flight was due to a navigational error, caused by heavy cloud cover that obscured landmarks and low-light conditions, causing him to misread his compass.


He also (later) endorsed ‘wrong-way’ products including a watch that ran backwards.

I imagine Senator Reid still treasures his. And I just bet he has the matching compass.

2. D. Throat - 27 September 2006

Stop whining. Stop bitching. And keep working to build a Democratic Party with backbone. The guys currently in DC don’t have it? Yeah, we know that. That’s why we’re supporting a new breed of Democrat that isn’t afraid of Rove’s shadow. That will fight when the DC Dems would rather cower in fear.

…and who might that be???


Who the fuck is Kos kidding…??? He is adament about electing the same worthless spinless shit… as long as it pays his mortgage.

3. D. Throat - 27 September 2006
4. Arcturus - 27 September 2006

In Brazil, Lula’s Disappointed Supporters Find an End to Absolutes:

It was more than the lesser of two evils. It was about consciously deromanticizing both politicians and elections. They no longer see a leader like Lula as a savior, but as just one part of the effort to alter society. The election is only a starting point, the thing that opens more hospitable political space in which independent activists can do the essential work.

5. cactus ed - 27 September 2006

Spastic is right. They used the torture issue to rev things up during the Gonzales hearing, but look what happens when the followers take it to its logical conclusion. Oops.

6. TustonDAZ - 27 September 2006

Spastic? These guys are absolutely convulsive…


Careful! The sugar will rot your teeth, and then “no popcorn for you”

7. marisacat - 27 September 2006

Tuston .. thanks for posting that link. I think the Kool Aid is a drip feed. IV.


November will be blood in the streets of Blahgdom.

Speaking of torture. I have been searching for what I remembered as a Blogometer report that laid bare a bit of Blahhg daring-do over Durbin.

Who, IMO, was right about the FBI declassified cables wrt Gitmo and torture. Right about what he said, and should have been supported.

But Blogometer (iirc) published that his aides arranged a Blogger Conf Call asking for support. He was assaulted UNMERCIFULLY on the senate floor.

Bloggers WITHHELD support. I mean other than a few rather weak comments, anti right wingers, anti Bush and sorta OK with Durbin. But not deep support. Not a big rally the troops.

Annat*pia who had live-blogged the conf call later ERASED it (all of this was in the Blogometer report) and then post apology, across the tied in BlogSnots, they, supposed Democratic party bloggers, viciously bashed Durbin for the apology. I remember that it was UGLY. Gilliard Kos others.

I have searched all of June, also Hotline On Call and the few days of June that Beltway BLogroll was there. Cannot find it.

It was a very revealing incident. And Blogometer definitely had the full tick tock.

But not there now.

Honestly, and i am not the first to raise it by any means… but you have t wonder the real objectives of the BlahhgSnots.

Their biggest deal all year is L v L. Oh and The Book, Crashing Bore.
Big Whup.

8. Deepest Throat - 27 September 2006

Kos: There’s a reason this is a “long-term movement”

Update: Rereading this, I don’t think I was clear on this point — please do put pressure on Democrats to do the right thing. On torture or whatever. Please get angry when they fail us and core American values. And as Stoller notes, this battle isn’t over.

What annoys me is when people threaten to leave the party. As though that will somehow make things better.

Bush – Tries To Win Over A War Weary Nation

In his speeches, Bush has advanced several arguments, starting with the proposition that the United States is engaged in a long-term ideological struggle between forces of freedom and Islamic radicals who want to destroy freedom. Although U.S. adversaries come from different backgrounds – ranging from radical Sunnis in al-Qaeda to Shiite militants such as Hezbollah – Bush has characterized the opposition as forming a single movement, “a worldwide network of radicals that use terror to kill those that stand in the way of their totalitarian ideology.”

I think somebody has been looking into the Rovian playbook. I guess that explains why Kos said that the a “new breed of Democrat that isn’t afraid of Rove’s shadow.” Why would the new breed be afraid is they are one in the same.

9. TustonDAZ - 27 September 2006

Genuflect and be grateful for all the utter shyte we spoon feed you daily…
(warning: Misogynistic Catholic Operative at end of link…)
I’m sure it will make the rec list
en nomini Patrus
en nomini Penis

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 27 September 2006

fuckers, all of them. Not interested in change, not interested in social justice, not interested in freedom, not interested in ANYTHING … anything but power and access.

11. Deepest Throat - 27 September 2006

Tuston – scary thing is, it is very Opus Dei like. Sad thing is, in the US, people refuse to believe Opus Dei is dangerous, unlike real countries. Calderon is part of the Opus Dei, cabal.

12. Madman in the Marketplace - 27 September 2006

Olbermann has put his response to the attack upon him in NY Post up on Countdown’s website.

And one of the reasons I offered no comment, was obvious: the authorities asked me not to.

Also, a New York Post reporter attempted to gain access to me by falsely identifying herself as a friend of mine.

And, most relevantly, the New York Post never called NBC News or MSNBC seeking any comment. They would have been told that the FBI had requested we try to keep this quiet.

But of course that would have interfered with the New York Post making fun of a terror threat.

It’s almost melodramatic to ask why the New York Post would choose the side of domestic terrorism, rather than choose the side of the FBI.

It’s interesting too that Murdoch’s paper was able to get a jump on this story so quickly — nearly as quickly, as if they’d known it was coming.

Lastly, it’s remarkable that this was actually printed by any newspaper, even in the current political climate, even in the wake of my editorial stance here, even with Rupert Murdoch’s international reputation.

A month ago when reporter Steve Centanni of Murdoch’s Fox News was kidnapped in Gaza — along with his camera-man — that network reached out to the others, this one included.

They relayed that the authorities there had urged everyone to keep reporting of the kidnapping low-key, and to a minimum, because it was believed the kidnappers did not know they had gotten hold of some one ‘recognizable.’

We — and every other major news organization — immediately and thoroughly cooperated with Murdoch’s request.

Now, in a return case, Murdoch’s newspaper did not even make the single phone call that could’ve told it the potential damage it was doing.

So, next time a Fox or a New York Post employee is in distress — or the government is investigating something endangering them — and Murdoch’s people ask us to hold a story?

Of course we will do so.

On this end, we’re still human beings.

And Americans.

And we’d never have any problem choosing whether to support the terrorist, or the FBI.

Yup, Murdoch’s post, who Bill will hobnob with, who’s money Hillary will take. One of the odious owners of the self-same Right Wing Noise Machine that is destroying this country and which did their best to destroy Clinton’s presidency. The kind of people who will JOKE about another journalist being terrorized, PROBABLY by someone who shares their ideological perspective. YET THE CLINTON WHORES STILL TAKE THEIR MONEY.

13. CSTAR - 27 September 2006

FWIW, there are two things which concern me. They fall roughly into
case A) and case not A):

Case A). Democrats win in November. With regard to Iraq in particular, what are they going to do? Pull out (in whatever manner or speed)? Do they intend to anything about the mess that will be left behind? The main issue is not withdrawal of troops (or a timetable), but payment of reparations (even if the payments don’t have that name which would be admittedly a humiliation to the superpower). And a reparations program under any name (ME Marshall plan?) is impossible without a regional ageement to administer the program, itself part of a larger regional security pact. This pact which has to involve regional powers such as Iran. Gimme a break, is that ever going to happen, with Democrats? If they can’t now restrain themselves from referring to Chavez as a thug, the answer to this is pretty obvious. And unless this is discussed now, specifically a repolitization and demilitarization of american foreign policy, it won’t happen later.

Case not A). The much expected takeover of congress does not happen (October surprise? who knows). This will lead to cynicism and demoralization of the left. Basically the political machine blogs have channelled the discussion into an area the options are limited and there are no fall-back positions.

The only way out of this impasse is to encourage real political discussion. I am not even suggesting the blogs don’t support their Lamonts and whatevers; However, the “channeling” which is now evident even to a casual observer is really destroying this discussion. SYFPH (did I get it right?) is no way to build a political movement.

14. Nanette - 27 September 2006

On that kos attempt to corral thing, isn’t he um… manipulating history a bit? Conservatives never gave up and all that stuff? While they may not have left the party, my recollection is what they did was… stay home on voting day.

I don’t believe they gained power by going along to get along.

15. Madman in the Marketplace - 27 September 2006

actually, many did leave the party. Voting for Liberatarians, the Constitution Party and, of course, Perot, dooming Bush Sr. After that, the theofascists and far right started getting pretty much everything they wanted.

16. marisacat - 27 September 2006

Well the Big Blogs have all been about bonding (between them, the 9 or so plus little blogs that are tied to them, or feel they are “friends”) and about purging.

FOr 3 years they have purged. Relentlessly.

So, really, the conversation, debate, discussion will not be on line.

Interesting things will be posted online, but it iwll not be a discussion.

And anyway there has been so much of this… that hard to know who to talk to. That is a penis pump. It is just DUMB. And these people hold themselves up as gateways, and arbiters and Chief Pundit. Ugh.

I just don’t get it. It is DUMB above all else.

AND Lamont just tossed another 750K into his race. (I think he is closing in on 7 Mil. Entirely his right.) IMO, the money just was not there for this challenge. Maybe it all makes sense later, but sure open for debate as to what it was all about..

And of course, his right to run, their right to push him.

17. Nanette - 27 September 2006

Apparently the penis pump was because the guy had some sort of ailment.. prostate cancer or something like that. This, at least, from a commenter knowledgeable about the issue (or said they were, anyway). Not that the guy sounds like a prize anyway, but it definitely seems just a bit of gratuitous nastiness to highlight that, if that is indeed the case.

madman, yes, many of them did and because of that they gained power. Dunno if it would work with Dems or not, but obviously voting in ones even more far to the right (not to mention war hardened) won’t have much good effect, just because they carry a D by their names.

And these people hold themselves up as gateways, and arbiters and Chief Pundit. Ugh.

In one of the mydd threads on the Clinton blogger thing, pachawhatever said something like (basically) holding FDL to account for their posts and actions was attempting to derail the “progressive movement”.

The guy used to have sense, from what I can remember… but to think that a website, no matter how many hundreds of thousands of dollars it raises for politicians, is the “progressive movement”, well… I think some things have gone to some people’s heads.

18. Deepest Throat - 27 September 2006

Time Mag takes a swing at the Netroots.

The Netroots Hit Their Limits

After they relentlessly derided Senator Hillary Clinton as calculating, overly cautious and lacking true liberal bona fides, she hired an adviser just to deal with them and even demanded that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld resign. Coincidence? Moderate Democrats say it with remorse, conservatives with glee, but the conventional wisdom is bipartisan: progressive bloggers are pushing the Democratic Party so far to the left that it will have no chance of capturing the presidency in 2008.

Even their most ardent players now recognize that you can’t create a true movement using nothing but modems and instant messaging. “The Netroots cannot elect someone alone,” says Matt Stoller, a blogger at the popular group site MyDD. [is this defeat I smell?]

…they’re adopting the old-school tools of electoral politics, like canvassing their neighborhoods and calling their member of Congress. They’re getting nitty-gritty in their focus too. The liberal online fund-raising group ActBlue, for instance, is trying to get activists to donate serious money to state-legislature campaigns that bloggers once considered too unsexy to care about. The goal is to put Democrats in control of state governments, where many key decisions are made.

Yet a coarse estimate of the Netroots’ numbers shows them to be something less than a groundswell. The readership of the largest liberal blogs and the membership of MoveOn suggest that the Netroots could total 6 million people, and that assumes blog audiences don’t overlap, which they do. That’s only a small fraction of even the Democrats in the U.S., who number more than 70 million. While 5 million people can elect the Governor of California, the Netroots are dispersed all over the country. Even in Connecticut, one of the most liberal states, Ned Lamont, Lieberman’s primary nemesis, couldn’t rely on just the Netroots to get him elected.

When it comes to money, the bloggers are still playing with Monopoly dollars compared with groups like Emily’s List and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

No one recognizes the Netroots’ limits more than the activists themselves, which is why they are changing their tactics. First of all, they’re becoming pragmatic about policy goals. There’s little demand from the Netroots for Democrats to support gay marriage, for example, even though 91% of the people who gave money to or worked on Dean’s campaign back it, according to a 2005 Pew poll. “We’re not asking anyone to commit political suicide,” says Eli Pariser, executive director of MoveOn. If the Democrats win the House, it will be on the strength of moderate candidates in places like Indiana, many of whom don’t support one of MoveOn’s top priorities, a timetable for withdrawal of troops from Iraq. And the bloggers are actively supporting and giving money to many of these more centrist candidates. Virginia Senate candidate Jim Webb was encouraged to run and has received more than $280,000 from the Netroots, even though he served in the Reagan Administration as Navy Secretary and was a Republican until recently.

Even with these changes, the Netroots won’t be kingmakers. The fact is, day-to-day campaigning in 2006 is not very different from how it was in 1996: candidates call a few very rich people to ask them to give money so the campaign can run ads on television and hope soccer moms catch them between cooking dinner and driving to practice. If the Democrats win in the fall elections, the roots of that victory will not be on the Net.

And what a bunch of suckas who think they are the Kingmakers…. maybe in the land of neverland.

19. marisacat - 27 September 2006

yeah. Pachacutec.

He says he is gay and yet specifically pushed Webb early on, saying the standard, with Dems in majority some things will never reach the floor (no guarantees) and in any case, we have to wait for anything for gays. Meanwhile vote for Webb. And Casey. And Ritter. And and and.

Be interesting to see how others in the senate vote on the Torture bill. LIke Bill Nelson of FL, whom the Dems protect protect protect. Supposedly their silence on Schiavo was so Nelson would not be slammed in his election with, “You killed Terri”.

Gets old.

So sick of the elctions gambit, It is always exactly the same.

oh yes these people are all bloated… they only have value if they are surgically attached to the selected asses. hmmm the money is middling. There was a piece in … some MSM that did make some salient points that online operatives, tabloids may have a saturation point. IN terms of what can actually be accomplished.
Hard to say…

It will drive people away, the tone of some of this stuff..

20. marisacat - 27 September 2006


That is the article I meant. It does make some very logical common sense points.

Thanks, GRREAT timing… 😉

21. bayprairie - 28 September 2006

The Ghost of hunter speaks:

The torture bill is pernicious. That much is true; that much is undeniable. But we should not make the mistake of presuming it more than it is. It is not a Reichstag Fire. It is not.

any light that ghost once possessed has obviously been self-extinguished.

the online “elites” :::cough cough::: are out in battalion force today at least one of the BBBs, possibly others (i do try not to read them), trying to quieten the outraged netroots. they could be leading the charge against the rapidly unfolding travesty of justice, and in a truly progressive america they would be. but no, they’re not. i personally feel that with these actions this week some of them have crossed a line and are now enabling george w. bush’s agenda to a degree. it seems that instead of opposing the bush agenda they are acquiescing to it’s anti-human rights desires in a gamble for potential november gains. some of them seem to me today to be collaborators rather than any type of political opposition. basic human rights, which is what this potential law will be throwing away, should never be chess pieces for some fucking political party’s gaming board.

i agree with you, marisa, when you say upthread:

If you cannot rally the troops with ideas and vision, brow beat them. They moved machine politics online. I used to think it was just very, very bad news… I am beginning to think it has done actual damage.

“The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.” (Article One, section nine, United States Constitution).

these people are the netROT.

22. bayprairie - 28 September 2006


The Ghost of hunter speaks:

The torture bill is pernicious. That much is true; that much is undeniable. But we should not make the mistake of presuming it more than it is. It is not a Reichstag Fire. It is not.

any light that ghost once possessed has obviously been self-extinguished.

23. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 September 2006

wow, the Time thing is funny. The “netroots” (cough) is pushing the Dems too far to the left, they state, then only paragraphs later state that the “netroots” doesn’t support liberal policies. WHICH IS IT?

Obviously the second point, as the leading Blahggs ARE LIBERAL.

Sick of how broken this country is.

Oh, and Hunter can kiss my ass. We don’t need a Reichstag fire, as he and others like him are willing to capitulate without one.

24. JJB - 28 September 2006

Just read that post from Mr. Zuniga in the update. He really isn’t very bright, is he? I don’t think Boston University’s law school is all that prestigious, still, you’d think they’d have trained him better than to leave himself open to accusations of either condoning torture, or feeling that it isn’t such a big deal, certainly no reason to take a principled stand. “Hey, there’s a chance Dems might actually get razor-thin majorities in at least one house of Congress that still won’t be anywhere near enough to prevent Bush from bullying the legislative branch into compliance, what are you, SOME KIND OF PURIST???!!!???”

I live in Virginia. I’ll vote for Webb, but I have not and will not give him any money, or do any volunteer work for him, and it isn’t just because I’ve taken on some responsibilities recently that are chewing up all of my leisure time. I wouldn’t do it even if I had the time. He’s a confederate nostalgist of at least mild enthusiasm, has a record of decidedly anti-feminist activism, and while I won’t call him a bigot, people who, like Webb, boast “we’re the Scotch-Irish, and we built this wonderful country!” very often are, however good they may be at hiding it. Given that Allen’s unapologetic and very public racism remained a secret to the general public this long, it’s not hard to believe that Webb is simply intelligent enough to keep certain thoughts to himself and a small circle of trusted friends and relatives.

25. marisacat - 28 September 2006

To be honest… there was a whiff off how the so called Liberal Blahgs called Allen “Felix” from the get go.

I looked over the wording of the question about his back ground very carefully. I foundit abhorent, more than a whiff. And Allen frankly deserves whatever he gets. Awful man.

And I just read reference that Forward has sat on the story for a year. waiting.

Myself… I smell a coalition to dirty Allen for the ’08 run. Matthews has been hot to push this hard. Matthews had a sliver of insight into the war, ONLY due to smidgens of memories of the death and horror of vietnam. Other than that his chain is jerked by the Republicans.

What am I saying? I am saying the boyz are doing a job for McCain. Or Huckabee. Or whichever of the hopefuls. Webb was a soft racist vehicle to run, there was no buzz, not really, to his run. And little to no money coming in. He did OK on MTP, better than I expected.

Allen is still ahead in the polls… I have no idea how verbal racism plays in VA, probably not all that badly in parts.

Can Allen win, I am too far away. Can he still run in 08. Hell this is America. Plenty of space for the likes of Allen.

26. NYCee - 28 September 2006

Hmmm… a 2¢ or two.

I find the Carnacki diary, the one which got Kos upset enough to post his FP response, interesting in several ways.

The Democratic Party Is at Risk of Losing Me

Hasnt Carnacki pretty much been on board re DK’s front line and core messaging from early on? I was surprised to see him drawing a line in the way he did – ie, threatening to leave the party over the torture bargaining. Such a threat from a well known site name and supporter like him should come as a major upset, a major transgression to the true blue at DK. (Funny – not so much a dire transgression to play snip and fuck with BushCo on torture, but oh my goodness, YES on deserting those who snip and fuck!)

Also interesting is that he garnered 456 4s in his tip jar, a big fat number, yet, in the initial string of posts that follow, the tendency is not to echo or add to his main message – the Dems are selling out again and I am not sticking with them this time, not on torture – as one might expect from all those 4s right off the top. Instead there is that irritatingly common pattern that one often sees on DK in response to such ‘discomfitting’ diaries: Shift the focus away from the (upsetting, dangerous) main point. Natter on about how bad Bush is (as if… ) and those hypocritical so-called Christians who endorse torture; talk about how wrong torture is, how right WE must be, but skitter and scatter away from the meat of the matter, which is that his diary puts the Dem party itelf, the very thing Kos has pledged to maintain and expand, on the hot seat for failing to provide opposition to this madness we all know is BushCo. And that there comes a time to draw the line.

I dont think the initial avoidance behavior is all deliberate operative diversion on the part of these under-the-carpet-sweepers. I think some of the lack of directly stated support for Carnacki’s main point, in contrast to that avalanche of fours (which are just fours, after all, and not words with which to argue), comes from fear of pissing off Kos and becoming vulnerable to attack, perhaps banning, by endorsing a threat to leave the Dems, like Carnacki made, or worse, threatening to join him.

Also, aside from that, or along with it, some former Dem party enthusiasts are probably just starting to disengage from unblinking/unthinking loyalty, and cant yet be so bold in their very thinking, as they are still grappling with cognitive dissonance btw what they have come to believe and what they are seeing with their own eyes. They were to believe that the Dems are wearing the white hats, (or at least off-white!) but now there is this sickening stain that wont wash off, very visable against whitish fabric.

Going a bit further down the thread, after the spate of indirectly supportive posts, some DK messengers soon pipe up and then you do start to see some more intensive criticism of blind loyalty to the Dems, some direct pushback. Didnt read it all, only about 40 posts down, maybe, but it is interesting. Someone observed a less prevalent tendency to cheerleading on site in the past couple of weeks as in the past. (Brings the Delaware Dem knuckle rapping failure to mind, and the PsiFighter silliness on its tail, that hardly got a readership nor more than a few pennies in the tip jar… I have also noticed that people are tending to support Chavez more on that site than I would have expected, which certainly isnt aligned with Kos nor the Dems.

I think Kos may be losing some of the hiss boom bah he was previously able to rally. Maybe he needs to pull out all the stops and bring back DHinMi as front pager? Lol.

27. NYCee - 28 September 2006

Here’s an example of the pushback that popped up in response to whippers and shapers who say that if you criticize the Dems on this you are playing by Karl Rove’s book, that this is yet another Rovian trap, (preOctober October Surprise) designed to get Dems to oppose torture! (Motherfucker!)

This is from a long string of pushback to that line, again from a longtime Dem loyalist/Kos poster, iirc.

* [new] Don’t fight against murder (11+ / 0-)

It’s what Karl Rove wants you to do, don’t you see?
If your mother is being hauled away to the Gulag, don’t raise a fuss. It’s what Karl Rove wants you to do. You’re falling into his trap. You’re going to look weak on terror. Let your mother die…for the good of the cause.

There is a limit to how many times we can avoid ‘rising to the bait’. When the bait is alive, and real, and important, sometimes we have to stand up and punch Karl Rove in the face.
For many of us, torture has so crossed the line, that any theoretical discussions about election strategy are crass and immoral.

by stephdray on Wed Sep 27, 2006 at 02:37:35 PM EDT
[ Parent | Reply to This |Recommend ]

PS – McJoan and Delaware Dem pop up and do their thing within the thread. Sad.

28. marisacat - 28 September 2006

Carnaki is a big Prophet – in your dreams – supporter. meaning Pastor Dan. I had not bothered to check on how that minor gatekeeper is tasking the torture beat.

Or is Carnaki now hanging more at some minor box car and throwing barbs.

It is such a muddle with the thugs and the minions.
Thanks for the link, will take a look at the diary.

29. NYCee - 28 September 2006

PastorDan bores me to tears…

No, I am being melodramatic…

He is so boring I could never stay with him to the point where tears would be drawn.

30. marisacat - 28 September 2006

ugh. The Blog Maid and the Rosary Beater.

Tired stuff.

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 September 2006

I think it’s Brownback taking Allen down, personally. They were going to fight it out for the evangelicals and racists. Now Brownback will have them all to his self.

32. marisacat - 28 September 2006

oh I think you are right. i caught a report today on… hmm Tweety I think. He had on a young guy from Weekly Standard and Fineman. Fineman said that Dobson’s people are very cool on Allen. HF had been at some function where 08 Rs were pitching to Dobson’s people.

I did get the impression from Matt Dowd (on Tweety yesterday, Tweety is pushing this every day) and from the Weekly Standard guy that there is a bit of a back lash with conservatives in VA. Also Tweety had on someone who works for Webb who remembers an incident from over 20 years ago.

Ugh. Allen is a creep, So is Webb. I did look at polls at RCP and lordy, Allen was still ahead, even in a poll taken 9/19 – 24

Who knows.

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