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Friday Post Torture Vote Open Thread… 28 September 2006

Posted by marisacat in 2006 Mid Terms, 2008 Election, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, U.S. House, U.S. Senate, Viva La Revolucion!.


I landed on an exchange in the post vote reaction thread at MyDD that sums up the next few days. 

I say, why suffer thru the Big Box Blahg Owners, operatives and thugs working to ‘splain away this one.  Oh yes, and of course, chastise people for their very human, very disgusted reactions. 

If you are not at the end of your tether, or long off the threadbare nub of it, then you are not sane.

Re: Final Tally on the McCain Torture Act, 65-34 (none / 0)

You know what, Democrats are too weak to fight the War on Terror effectively.  If they can’t stand up to President Bush for American principles, then how the hell can they stand up to Osama bin Laden?  Goddamn cowards. . .

by Jim Treglio on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 07:56:31 PM EST

     Re: Final Tally on the McCain Torture Act, 65-34 (none / 0)

That’s right.  Spread the word.  We are all better off with the GOP in power.

You may be mad, but this really, really isn’t helpful in trying to change the country.

by Mimikatz on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 08:37:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And yes, he did come back at that rude and dismissive slapwa. [btw, stuff it Mimi.  Sit and think what you wrote to a VOTER after Congress gave free rein to a dictator during war time…]

Re: Final Tally on the McCain Torture Act, 65-34 (none / 0)

Would it really matter so long as these twelve cowards remain in the Senate.  They voted to give Bush dictorial powers because they were afraid of Rove.  They gave up the Republic without a fight.

Don’t get me wrong, the GOP are cowards as well.  Every single one of these Senators realized what they were doing, and they did it anyway.  No one who voted for this monstrosity should ever have a statue or school or anything other than an open sewer named after them.

But it is our Party, the Democrat Party that should be the most angry.  When we stand ready to fight for each one of our officeholders, they run in fear.  When we pledge and give our time and money, they cower in fear.  You’re damn right I’m angry.  Worst of all, several of these Senators aren’t even up for election.  They just caved because it was their nature.

I will never, ever support any one of these bastards.  They won’t get my money or my time or any effort, because when I needed them, when we needed them, they weren’t there.  This wasn’t a fucking tax cut, it was everything.  From here on out, Bush can jail anyone he wants, torture anyone he wants, and it has full Congressional consent.  And no one can bring a habeus motion to challenge the law in court.  Now Bush is a fucking Dictator.  And they GAVE IT TO HIM!!!!  

by Jim Treglio on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 09:14:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Tristero has a very, very good column up over at Digby. [thanks to Madman].  The ONLY thing I would add is it is wholly unimportant what John Kerry says (tristero links at the tag end to part of the Kerry statement today.  Sorry John, so very late). 

Since the day after the 2000 election, Bush and his goons have been playing chicken with the very structure of the United States Government, double-daring anyone to try and stop them. If Congress does try – and I’m not talking little things like wrecking Social Security, that’ll happen and a dictator can afford to let things like that wait a while, I’m talking atomic bang bang and thumbscrews – he will force the private Constitutional crisis into the open. And there is no guarantee that Bush will lose.

I keep saying:  Post Coup and Post Collapse.

They never fought back.  Never.


From Jonathan Turley on the just past Constitution Day:

Professor Turley also lamented: “We have a two-party system, which isn’t enough. They have a monopoly on power. We have one party running on: ‘We’re the lesser of two evils.’ No other ideas beyond that. And, the Republicans are running on: ‘Vote for me, or die!’ And, it isn’t just the Republicans…

The Democrats have the same flaws. Hillary Clinton [U.S. Senator, NY-Democrat], voted for the Patriot Act and for most of this [anti-civil libertarian] stuff. She has only rediscovered civil liberties when it became popular to do so, as did the rest of them.”  […]

Finally, Professor Turley summed up his insightful and compelling presentation by saying:

“The Republic has within it the seeds of its own destruction…If [the people] look the other way, do nothing, then we will be redefined. We will no longer be the people we were…One of my biggest fears is that my generation will give away the legacy that we got from the generation that came before us. And that we will untether our civil liberties from the system that was created in the brilliance of the 18th century…

We have to stop being a country of chumps…We need another political party. We’re certainly choosing between the lesser of two evils, and as the saying goes–’You are guaranteed evil!’”


If I land on good editorials or commentary will post it… Things are very very bad, but best to know what we are dealing with.  And now even fools and knaves should step aside.

soccerdad at The Left Coaster has a good one.  And he links to the torture film that Neiwert has up.  I did not watch it… cannot bear to.  I remember when the first reports came thru of two deaths at Bagram.  And that the Army ME had certified “homicide”.

And here we are.  Years later.  From soccerdad:

[H]e then accuses the Dems of being spineless. I think this is where he and others go wrong. They are not spineless, they just agree with the Repubs. I think the Dems would have preferred that Iraq not be invaded, but given that it has they are behind it. Their only complaint appears to be that it’s not being run well.

The Democrats time and time again have been handed clubs by the Repubs (torture being the largest) and instead of beating them over the head with them they just yawn and do nothing. The bottom line is that they are for the war and don’t want to do anything to interfere with its progress. One only has to listen to H. Clinton or read the New Republic to see that this is true. The leadership of both parties support the right of the US to do anything it wants, to anyone it chooses, and should not incur any consequences. American Exceptionalism run way amok.

A real feeling of helplessness has settled in as there seems to be little anywhere someone who is against these wars of conquest can turn. The truth of the matter is that neither party cares. They would be happy if only 3 people in the entire country voted as long as their party got 2 of the votes.

Now its time to sit back and watch the war on Iran unfold just as scheduled with the US employing tactical nukes. The US and the world is changing and it certainly is not for the better. My children and their children will bear the brunt of the nasty consequences that are sure to come.

The time for dissent will be limited.

I particularly remember that Jan Shakowsky who has been forcefully against the war in Iraq, was right there with all the other Democrats in denouncing al Maliki’s comments.  And certainly the display over Chavez… you nearly have to laugh.  A “teaching moment” for any Democratic voters who know anything at all about the history of the USA and So and C America.

 Truly, we have a bi partisan dictatorship.  I think the Dems hang around for what falls off the table…


UPDATE, 2:20 am

Suellentrop has a post up at the Opinon Times Select,  drawn from Balkin the day before the vote.  A snip just to get his link on the page… the real point is a comment below.

The Democrats who are abetting President Bush with their silence are moral cowards who deserve to remain in the minority in Congress, he writes on his group legal blog Balkinization. “Far worse than a misguided zealot is the moral coward who says nothing and allows that zealotry to do real harm,” Balkin writes.

BUT, I noticed this in the comments….

Article precis from Wikipedia:“The Enabling Act (Ermächtigungsgesetz in German) was passed by Germany’s parliament (the Reichstag) on March 23, 1933. It was the second major step after the Reichstag Fire Decree through which the Nazis obtained dictatorial powers using largely legal means. The Act enabled Chancellor Adolf Hitler and his cabinet to enact laws without the participation of the Reichstag.

The formal name of the Enabling Act was Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich (”Law to Remedy the Distress of the People and the Reich”).”

If it walks like a duck…

Comment by St. Kitt — September 28, 2006 @ 3:25 pm


UPDATE, 11:05 am

Some links from the thread and email.

Near history from Madman, CJR timeline forward from Carlotta Gall, the NYT correspondent in Afghanistan who determined that two had died in custody at Bagram air base and the military ME certified “homicide”.

[G]all’s story, it turns out, had been at the center of an editorial fight. Her piece was “the real deal. It referred to a homicide. Detainees had been killed in custody. I mean, you can’t get much clearer than that,” remembers Roger Cohen, then the Times’s foreign editor. “I pitched it, I don’t know, four times at page-one meetings, with increasing urgency and frustration. I laid awake at night over this story. And I don’t fully understand to this day what happened. It was a really scarring thing. My single greatest frustration as foreign editor was my inability to get that story on page one.”

Doug Frantz, then the Times’s investigative editor and now the managing editor of the Los Angeles Times, says Howell Raines, then the Times’s top editor, and his underlings “insisted that it was improbable; it was just hard to get their mind around. They told Roger to send Carlotta out for more reporting, which she did. Then Roger came back and pitched the story repeatedly. It’s very unusual for an editor to continue to push a story after the powers that be make it clear they’re not interested. Roger, to his credit, pushed.” (Howell Raines declined requests for comment.)

“Compare Judy Miller’s WMD stories to Carlotta’s story,” says Frantz. “On a scale of one to ten, Carlotta’s story was nailed down to ten. And if it had run on the front page, it would have sent a strong signal not just to the Bush administration but to other news organizations.”  [snip]

Ashcroft is denied immunity in the al-Kidd case. [from Arcturus]

[R]obin Goldfaden, one of Kidd’s attorneys at the American Civil Liberties Union, said the case “could be the launching point for more fully documenting how the government is misusing the material witness statute.”

The law was intended to give authorities the power to detain witnesses they feared might flee before testifying. But after the Sept. 11 attacks, the government used it to hold 70 men, nearly half of whom were never called to testify in court, according to a study by the ACLU and Human Rights Watch.

Kidd — a Kansas native who was known as Lavoni T. Kidd before converting to Islam — was arrested in March 2003 as he prepared to board a flight to Saudi Arabia, where he was planning to pursue a doctorate in Islamic studies. Federal prosecutors claimed he was a flight risk crucial to the prosecution of a fellow University of Idaho student, Sami Omar al-Hussayen.

Kidd was imprisoned for 16 days in three states and then placed under restrictive court supervision for more than a year.

But Kidd was never called to testify against Hussayen, who was eventually acquitted of computer-related terrorism charges. [snip]

… an overview of the The State of Exception… It starts in 1791 in France and traverses several countries.  [from Arcturus]

The place—both logical and pragmatic—of a theory of the state of exception in the American constitution is in the dialectic between the powers of the president and those of Congress. This dialectic has taken shape historically (and in an exemplary way already beginning with the Civil War) as a conflict over supreme authority in an emergency situation; or, in Schmittian terms (and this is surely significant in a country considered to be the cradle of democracy), as a conflict over sovereign decision.

The textual basis of the conflict lies first of all in Article 1 of the constitution, which establishes that “the Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it” but does not specify which authority has the jurisdiction to decide on the suspension (even though prevailing opinion and the context of the passage itself lead one to assume that the clause is directed at Congress and not the president).

The second point of conflict lies in the relation between another passage of Article 1 (which declares that the power to declare war and to raise and support the army and navy rests with Congress) and Article 2, which states that “the President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.”

Fein was good on Lehrer yesterday … will see if the transcript is up…

The tired Democrats are on Cspan.  Levin, Reed, Reid (speaking now), Schumer, Durbin.  They should have walked out months ago. [C-Span moving to open phone lines as the senate votes on the Detainee bill]

last… I am so unimpressed by the months long burbles from the Generals … I have no faith that the military would do other than stand with the president in a crisis.  And stand resolutely against the American people.  To me that is what NOLA and the whole of the Gulf Coast under Katrina/Rita was all about.  Test it out.  The military did as ordered as did ICE and other entities.  Further, we had Mexican Marines who came across the border and were active on the Gulf Coast in Mississippi.  LAT reported it and had photos.  I read it was the first time since 1848 we allowed foreign military to operate on US soil.

Food for thought.



1. NYCee - 28 September 2006

Encountered a rec diary by good ole Psi, but this time he was naming out the 11+Joe=12(?) go-along Dems. With color photos, no less! My my, psi!


But then there was this:

Hopefully… (0+ / 0-)

Some of these people will retire, thus no need for an expensive primary…

Lieberman has SO MANY offenses, that’s why we were successful then. Aside from Ben Nelson, there aren’t really any infamous DINOs on this list.

by Mikesco on Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 08:39:39 PM EDT

Ye gads. So I just had to say this:

You have got to be kidding! (6+ / 0-)

Mary Landrieu is a DINO extraordinaire. She even went for Owens and drilling in ANWR, two GOP stinkers Ben N actually passed on. Otherwise, if you check their records, on major votes, appointees, etc, they are basically like most-evil male/female twins. A DINO set for your dinette.

Pryor also sucks quite badly in DINOland, so does Bill fucking Nelson. So do the whole lot of them, what the hell.

But maybe the tag DINO is a misnomer at this point.

DINO=Democrat In Name Only

As I understand it. But maybe they are not in name only. Maybe, with so many of them failing us so miserably, maybe this is what they have become.

Look, twelve senators for torture, tons for war, tons for bankruptcy, and medicare and class action kabosh… and now maybe Bolton? Chuckie likes him on Israel, probably the whole ME PNAC trip, cause Chuckie says he’d do Iraq again, even knowing what we know… just a few months ago.

No filibuster on Bolton in the cards. No filibuster on Alito. No filibuster on bankruptcy. No filibuster on torture.

Ever wonder why the Dems have such a hard time formulating a strong, winning message?

Here’s your clue. Lean in close and get this loud and clear:
Too many fucking conservatives/hawks/rightwing fuckers in that much lauded “big diverse tent!”

See, there is no diversity, tolerance, beauty in the bigness of this tent. That is a scam, a con. It is diverse only in that it has a bunch of rightwingers in it. That is it.

And once again, Lincoln Fucking Chafee makes a joke of them. You gotta love that guy. A lot more than a bunch of our dems. Really. I cant hate him. He voted against the war and the tax cuts and partial birth abortion. You cannot say the same of Landrieu or Nelson or a bunch of other Dems.


2. NYCee - 28 September 2006

Whoops. Chafee voted against the partial birth abortion BAN. Ban, I did so mean to say.

Oh, and there is a godawful quote from Sherrod Brown (supposedly a more reliable liberal) excusing his vote for torture with a godawful excuse, and here we go:

(I got it from that silly Biminicat’s diary, has no link)

Apparently, Sherrod said:

“I supported a compromise because I think John McCain, a former prisoner of war, understands what we need to do to ensure our soldiers are safe.”

He added, “Some people just don’t want me to agree with George Bush on anything.”

Oh nice. Nice place to decide to agree with Bush, Sherrod. And good pick for good judgement, that McCain. Oh, he was tortured, he must know, let’s go where he goes. He is such a man of integrity. And a maverick. So brave! So he must be speaking truth to power. Blah, blah…


3. marisacat - 28 September 2006

wow. That from Sherrod. They are absolutely shameless.

Like BIll Nelson who I think is about 12 pts ahead of that lune in FL.


And they expect people to knuckle under. And of course some will.

I even read tonight someone patting themselves that soon Brown would be a senator and he would have voted NO.

LOL. And people assuming that Webb or Casey would vote NO.


Casey came out for ALITO. Get a grip people.

4. NYCee - 28 September 2006

Shameless, clueless…

I checked the House roll call and good ole Harold Ford was reliably on the bad side, the side for torture. Also, Stephanie Herseth… Remember how she was supposed to be our brave new gyrl? Kos so loved her. She so loved Kossacks’ change purses. And credit cards. No sooner was she ensconced in Congress and she votes for the hideous bankruptcy bill. Actually signs letter with 20 other New Dems to get it out on the floor. Like Harold Ford. Oh, I really dislike that man, Ford. He is so plastic. And callous. And simple. And self centered and CAREER oriented. Calculating to the max. I cannot listen to him. Really. Something really in-your-face about his phoniness to me.

5. marisacat - 29 September 2006

ooo Ford upsets me. He always has… makes me think we are in 1865.. Post Civil War Reconstruction Era.

And of course we are. We barely moved on but for a few years there.

I HAVE to catch Imus tomorrow morning. See who calls in. I caught Kerry earlier this week. he so needs to hang it up. Not like he NEEDS the money… lol.

6. NYCee - 29 September 2006

I know. One diary has a list of people to fight for, like Casey, as if that were the antidote.

But Stabenow and Menendez voted for torture! And they are more liberal than Casey. And they, esp Stabenow, who voted against the war and usually voted liberal, should be the safest bets among the 12 – maybe Lautenberg, too – to vote against the nasty GOP on something like Torture. But there they were, for it. So why have confidence in these others?

I actually just guesstimate that Webb would not have voted for it, but I could be wrong. Still, I know what you mean about those who keep bleating about how Dems in power will be the magic saving wand. Salvation. Even when these inexplicable sell outs are selling out on torture right before their eyes. Damn.

Btw, very very good photo choice, marisa.

7. bayprairie - 29 September 2006

today’s most abusive netROT george w. bush collaborator diary award goes to spoonless.

Calm the Fuck Down Already (Updated)
by thereisnospoon
Thu Sep 28, 2006 at 04:38:36 PM PDT

I swear to freaking God. Everybody needs to take a freaking chill pill on this torture legislation.

Yes, torture is awful. Yes, the bill purports to eliminate the right of habeas corpus. Yes, American citizens are included. Yes, these are fundamental American values. Yes, Democrats should stand up for those values.

Yes, yes, yes. Yada yada yada.

But please end the incessant hand-wringing, and try to remember how government–even under this administration–works.

This bill doesn’t change SHIT. Not today. Not yesterday. Not tomorrow. Nothing.

And all you hand-wringers out there are just playing right into their hands by obsessing about this.

actions such as these futher george bush’s agenda. this person is a base collaborator in the attempted overthrow of a section of the united states constitution. by trying to silence american citizens’ finding fault with the democratic party’s complicity in the passage of an obscene anti-human rights bill this poster gives bush an assist by attempting to stifle well warranted outrage. no right thinking person should calm down about this and anyone suggesting others should do so is worthly of the greatest contempt.

8. D. Throat - 29 September 2006

The BBB’s knew it was coming… hence Deleware Dems feathering of the rats nest with threats.

I think the reason the Kos and his crew just don’t give a shit about these bills is because they think it will never be applied to them personally. A typical GOP mentality… like GOPer women who are against abortion rights before and after their own abortions. There is a feeling that even with these bills inacted that they and their families will some how be priviledged enough to not be affected… I guess that is the payback for herding the restless natives.

The more I think about Lakoff the more I think he is really on to something about how people see values. Kos and the GOP really do believe that poor “Welfare Queens” deserve to be poor because of some godly intervention and those that can afford new house and pianos earned by unscrupulous means deserve their riches. This is why Kos found absolutely nothing wrong with Jerome Armstrong ripping off stock buyers… it is all part of God’s plan for the survival of the fittest.

Democratic Libertarians = Selfish Democrats

Kos is of the group “I got mine (by hook or crook)… and I really don’t give a shit if you get yours or not… Lakoff says that part of the “Traditional” Democratic values was fairness and making sure that the weakest in society was cared for. Selfish Democrats look out for themselves and only themselves which is why thay can rationalized Ried capitulations…

Abortion has nothing to do with me so I can let abortion rights go

I am rich so the bankruptcy bill has nothing to do with me I can let it go

I play the game and most of my best friends are conservative republicans so I will never be tortured I can let habeas corpus go

I am not a poor single parent woman so I don’t need welfare and it was her fault in the first place that she had children with no income so I can let welfare go

I am not African American so I know that MY vote counts so I can let verified elections it go

This is the same mentality of the poor redneck GOPer sitting with no healthcare voting for the GOP… because they have been told that they are “CHOSEN” and (dumbly think) that none of these horrible bills will apply to them… just poor black people.

9. marisacat - 29 September 2006

I did not have a chance to post it but Reuters did a kind of prep piece on the big social issues that are coming up before the SC this fall. Not just the 2003 later term abortion “PBA” vote in congress but several things.

Chemerinisky who argued the CA Three Strikes law before the SC a couple years ago said it has the makings of a big year before the court.

Will hunt up the piece. There is a feeling of on coming Gotterdamerung about the timing. Social issues, Iran, military in a big blood splatter… I imagine as often happens the economy will tank fast after election.


Edges of oncoming doom. Sorry to be down…

10. marisacat - 29 September 2006

Reuters via Truthout

Washington – The US Supreme Court’s new term has cases on abortion, the environment and racial diversity in schools, some of the country’s most contentious social issues for a court primed to shift sharply to the right by President George W. Bush’s conservative appointees.

The nation’s highest court, with Bush’s two appointees, could decide to limit or overturn recent precedents upholding abortion rights for women and programs to foster a racially diverse student body, legal experts said.

“The term is going to be a bellwether on the shift in the court’s ideology. The court is revisiting a series of profound issues,” said Tom Goldstein, a Washington lawyer who closely follows the court.

In the cases on hot-button issues, the Bush administration has urged the high court to uphold a federal law that bans some abortion procedures and to strike down race-based student assignment plans for public elementary and secondary schools.

In considering the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003 and the use of student assignment plans to achieve racial diversity, the court could revisit issues it addressed only a few years ago, the experts said.

The court by a 5-4 vote in 2000 struck down a similar Nebraska abortion law. The experts said they will be watching closely whether the court follows that precedent and strikes down the federal law involving a late-term abortion procedure.

In 2003, the court by a 5-4 vote upheld the use of race as a factor in admissions at a public university. The experts said they will be watching if that precedent is extended to the use of race as a factor for elementary and secondary school assignments.

O’Connor voted in the majority in both cases.[snip]

ugh. Plenty of potential to rile the nation up. Torque the tension.

11. D. Throat - 29 September 2006

Well it is clear that Kos and Krew are making sure that they personally have reservations on the lifeboats… and damn the rest. So mighty “Liberatarian (selfish)” of him…

I think it was two years ago at a meeting in Davos McCain and Biden clearly agreed that they did not see the US economy surviving more than 15 years … if that. So not only are the rats abandoning ship making sure that in the ensuing chaos order can be maintained (torture, fences, stripping of rights) and the protection of wealth (bankruptcy bill, tax cuts) and they are also stealing the chandeliers and cutlery (gas prices, healthcare gouging) on their way to the lifeboats.

12. D. Throat - 29 September 2006

Ha… I thought the blog wardens argument was that the Supreme Court would never stand for the Torture Bill…

This is nothing more than a laundry list of talking points for the GOP 2008 election campaigns.

Timing is right… right after the midterms and before the presidential. Hilliary will never fight it because she thinks the more she is like the GOP she will win.

13. D. Throat - 29 September 2006

Perhaps KNOWING that this major Democratic capitulation was coming was the motivation for Bills “show” of standing up to a journalist last week.

All of this is way too orchestrated to still believe that the GOP is doing this without the concerted help of the Democratic party…

14. marisacat - 29 September 2006

I could not watch the vote… tho usually I do. SOmeone posted seeing her talking to both menendez and Lautenberg before they entered their votes. The poster said it had the aura of marching orders.

And Stabenow… I will check at RCP but last I looked her polling numbers were pretty good I thought.

Really bad. The whole world sees this… knows we are just part of whatever Bush does. Fully a partner.

god. what to say.

And Islamic fundies are spreading thru Somalia, Taliban is fully rising. Bush somehow is happy. He looked it at his last presser wtih Musharraf and Karzai.

Very odd time.

15. marisacat - 29 September 2006

”Perhaps KNOWING that this major Democratic capitulation was coming was the motivation for Bills “show” of standing up to a journalist last week.”

I agree. Charlie Rose was STILL on it this evening. The whole damned hour. With that nothing, Remnick of the NYer… Harris and ugh forget the other reporter’s name (Woodruff’s husband). And also with Laurence Wright. Who for some reason gets on my nerves. ”The looming Tower” author.

All about Bill.


16. marisacat - 29 September 2006

I looked at RCP, Stabenow’s last poll she was +13.

SurveyUSA 09/15 – 09/17 749 LV 41% 54% Stabenow +13%

And she has constituents that are ME.

OK did AIPAC pull her chain? She agrees with the damned bill?

Something weird is up.

Disgusting. Should hve been a line vote.

17. D. Throat - 29 September 2006

This is an old trick getting the dems to “mix it up” so that a line can not be drawn between DLC (Not Dems) and Dems

I thought it was a bit telling when Kos compared this Torture bill to the establishment of the EPA….perhaps he meant the desegration of schools and the Civil Rights Act…

18. marisacat - 29 September 2006

Jesus Christ.

What is up. I went wandering to see if I could find a decent editorial on the vote. I am speechless again.

HALIFAX — The U.S. Coast Guard’s plans to arm boats on the Great Lakes with machine-guns — a measure that has drawn fire from Canadian residents — were sanctioned by Ottawa three years ago, officials from both countries confirmed today. …

But the commandant of the U.S. Coast Guard said it’s become necessary to protect the border that runs through the lakes, and he said the treaty no longer applies.

“There has been an agreement since 1814 that those types of weapons would not be used in the Great Lakes,” Admiral Thad Allen said today after three days of meetings with Canadian Coast Guard officials in Halifax.

But both countries signed an agreement in 2003 that allows armed boats on the Great Lakes “in the wake of the events of September 11, 2001,” but forbids such activity in Canadian waters.

“(The weapons) are needed to secure nuclear power plants, security zones and the missions that we need to conduct on the Great Lakes,” Allen said.

The U.S. Coast Guard wants to establish 34 permanent zones in the Great Lakes, where crew members would fire at floating targets. It’s part of a broader American campaign to protect its borders from threats such as terrorism.

19. D. Throat - 29 September 2006

Does Kos even know what he is talking about???

Those donors hate Dean with a passion because he doesn’t kiss their rings. They hate him because he’s building a national party. They hate him because Dean doesn’t see them as the center of the universe. These are the same jokers who funded Bloomberg. Who are raising money for Lieberman. And they are a corrosive force inside the party.

There is no political advantage for Democrats to hold the convention in New York. None. Sure, it’s convenient for those Big Dollar Donors who wouldn’t have to get in their private jets to fly to Denver, but this isn’t about them. They think everything is about them, but it isn’t. It’s about building a national party, about expanding our reach into parts of the country that haven’t seen the Democratic message but are receptive to it.

Colorado Democrats are about to build on their 2004 successes (which we write about in CTG) with even more dramatic victories this year — at least the governor’s race and one House seat, and potentially three additional House seats. By the end of this year, we should have Democratic governors in much of the Mountain West — Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Arizona, and New Mexico. Republicans are down to Nevada (maybe) and their two lonely outposts in Idaho and Utah.

their 2004 successes….

What like both of the Salazar voting for torture (and anything else the GOP puts under their noses….and who are both proteges of LIEBERMAN.

Aha… now I know why the GOP snagged Mn…. it forces the Dems to hold their convention either in a GOP mayorial city… or even better in a state whose pathetic Dem nominee for Governor is a fundmentalist creep… Ritter “Just say no to abortion”….

Yeah really successful Kos ….Colorado 2 Salazars and a Ritter…. if that is success what the hell is losing????

…again because Ritter and the Salazars don’t effect him personally … so they are okay and he covers his deceit by saying it is all about winning yet refuses to acknowledge the damage these people are doing…. by the end of 2008 Kos will have secured a big enough reservation ticket for the lifeboat to bring his piano onboard.

BTW: I love how Kos always hides his real message under Dean’s name… like if he uses Dean’s name no one will read the real text of the passage.

Ah… the mighty and conniving shall inherit the earth.

20. marisacat - 29 September 2006

Hillary was an early backer of at least Ken if not both Salazars. She gave the max very early in the primary to Ken. And gave a gain after the primary was over. I am sure he owes his allegiance at least partly to her. And someone from CO tonight posted that the Salazars make it clear they owe the constituencey NOTHING.

Oh yes the Dems should have been in MN.

And you know Kos… loves him some SW or MT states that are reddish. And if he cn make them redder, or give it a push he will.

These are very conservative Democrats on line. LOL.

Really over all it is hilarious. What a con they have run.

I hope it bites all the way thru to bone. On them.

21. TustonDAZ - 29 September 2006

And the hits just keep commin’

The Senate’s 800 mile Border Fence Fiasco Bill will likely pass today…no more migragtory jaguars in my back yard, but I’m willing to bet it wont stop the undocumented migrants or burros.

And the National Gaurd seems to have taken up the local red-necks’ favorite sport, taking pot shots at mexicans

Three soldiers from North Texas, at least one of whom had served in Iraq, were arrested the evening of Sept. 6 on felony deadly-conduct charges after several shots were fired from their private vehicle as it passed a family cookout in a modest Maverick County subdivision, officials said.

Several adults and children “hit the dirt” fearing a drive-by attack, Sheriff Tomas S. Herrera said, but no one was targeted or injured by the gunshots and no property damage was reported.

“Apparently the family was having a carne asada outside and they saw this vehicle drive by, stop in front of the residence and shoot several times. Then they took off and made a U-turn and came back and did the same thing,” Herrera said.

fuckin’ beaners had it commin’ to them, how dare they be brown and culturally Mexican on this side of the Rio Brava…er, the Reo Grand.

22. JJB - 29 September 2006

With regards to the Enabling Act of March 1933 that brought democracy in Germany to an end, this website has a very good short summary of what happened. Please note that the Social Democrats actually had the guts to cast the only “NO” votes in this odious ballot, and did so with mobs of rabid storm troopers both inside and outside the Reichstage chamber.

What is really frightening about that chapter in this story is how the Nazis began their usurption of power even before this vote by illegally arresting large numbers of known leftists, and throwing bona fide police and civil servants out of their offices and replacing them with their own goons with no one in a position of power doing anything to stop them. As much as everyone remembers the Reichstag Fire as the event that brought Hitler to power, the Nazis still came nowhere near to getting a majority in the Reichstag in the election that was held in the Fire’s aftermath. They simply decided to act with brute force to take over the apparatus of the state, then once they’d done this, bully the Reichstag into retroactively making their power grab legal.

The parallels between what happened then and what’s happening in our country are too obvious to mention. If you don’t see it, you’re a fool.

23. CSTAR - 29 September 2006

I woke up this morning and read this op/ed piece in my local paper. I am not sure quite what emotion to express and who to express it against. Against the Democrats who refused to fight (or even voted for this), there apologists at DKos and the likes or monsters such as Goldberg who advocate this stuff.

I consider myself a logical, critical person but what I don’t have is the lack of human emotion to write a line by line analysis of what Goldberg wrote.

What comes to my mind are decrees such as the infamous AI 5 passed by the Brazilian military in 1968, which effectively began the odious years of repression in that country. Many brazilians fled, to Europe, US Canada, other parts of Latin America, including Chile. Those that fled to Chile were soon greeted with even more violence when Pinochet overthrew the (by then tottering) ALlende government. As a young, US educated latin american academic in Chile at the time, I witnessed a contingent of armed carabinieri march into my apartment building to get these “foreign terrorists from Brazil” and heard them trash their apartment upstairs apparently in frustration since its occupants had already left.

Today is a sad day. Not hopeless of course, but very sad.

24. spiderleaf - 29 September 2006

spoon and his fucking ‘netroots’ consultancy can kiss my ass. Uh, honey, you having a hard time herding those cats your clients way are you? So just tell everybody to shut up and get with the program and the checks will keep flowing in.


And he doesn’t even present shit correctly and makes stuff up about Roberts having to recuse himself. Straw grasping at its most pathetic.

So… where are the street protests? Where is the general strike? Where is ANY goddamn action by Americans? Whining on the blogs about how things will be different come November. Whatever. Sorry, but at this point, all American’s are culpable and are enemies of world peace. You need to be stopped.

25. mjb - 29 September 2006

This is what is currently on the home page for the Senate’s website:

Celebrating the Constitution
Written in 1787, ratified in 1788, and in operation since 1789, the United States Constitution remains a vital and living document. Having been strengthened by amendments, the Constitution serves as both guide and protector of U.S. citizens and their elected officials. To encourage all Americans to learn more about the Constitution, Congress in 2005 established Constitution Day, to be celebrated each year on or near September 17th, the date in 1789 when delegates to the Convention signed the Constitution.

The United States Senate is proud to commemorate this day with several articles on this Web site, including a feature on a new painting depicting Roger Sherman and Oliver Ellsworth composing the Connecticut Compromise , the decision which led to the creation of the Senate and House of Representatives.

Really, I am speechless.

26. D. Throat - 29 September 2006

Isn’t “thereisnospoon” a partner in the newly minted consultancy firm that was conceived in a casino in Las Vegas with Bowers…. enuf said

27. marisacat - 29 September 2006

Madman emailed this. Time line of the slow unravel by the media of the torture. Starts with Carlotta Gall, the Afghanistan correspondent for the NYT who discovered two had died at Bagram and certified as “homicide”.

Gall filed a story, on February 5, 2003, about the deaths of Dilawar and another detainee. It sat for a month, finally appearing two weeks before the U.S. invasion of Iraq. “I very rarely have to wait long for a story to run,” says Gall. “If it’s an investigation, occasionally as long as a week.”

Gall’s story, it turns out, had been at the center of an editorial fight. Her piece was “the real deal. It referred to a homicide. Detainees had been killed in custody. I mean, you can’t get much clearer than that,” remembers Roger Cohen, then the Times’s foreign editor. “I pitched it, I don’t know, four times at page-one meetings, with increasing urgency and frustration. I laid awake at night over this story. And I don’t fully understand to this day what happened. It was a really scarring thing. My single greatest frustration as foreign editor was my inability to get that story on page one.”

Considering I just heard Sensenbrenner live on Cspan say that the torture bill is extremely important as it gives cover “to the interrogators” and the “interrogations must start up again”.

For our safety you know. Duncan Hunter is up now.

Maybe little Stephanie Herseth would like to chime in on behalf of her constituents and all who blindly donated to her thanks to the exhortations from some guy named Kos.

28. Arcturus - 29 September 2006
29. marisacat - 29 September 2006

“thereisnospoon” is the one that posted that Democrats number communists among those who vote for them.

Really such appalling people. ahistorical.

30. Arcturus - 29 September 2006
31. bayprairie - 29 September 2006

D. Throat says upthread:

Isn’t “thereisnospoon” a partner in the newly minted consultancy firm that was conceived in a casino in Las Vegas with Bowers…. enuf said

im not sure Dthroat, i haven’t heard anything about it.

but i didnt see any FUCKING DISCLAIMER alerting readers to the fact that the poster is a paid political consultant. wouldn’t ethical behavoir sort of require something like that?

curiouser and curiouser.

32. marisacat - 29 September 2006

yes he is… I don’t have the link at hand. but Bowers. there is no spoon and one other. They announced it at Kos and at MyDD.


Shiny and Bright.

33. marisacat - 29 September 2006

just remembered, the third is bonddad.

LOL no disclaimers there either.

34. bayprairie - 29 September 2006

well that would explain the complete senselessness of the post then.

its the PARTAY’S OPINION. that’s why its irrational.

35. NYCee - 29 September 2006

Yes, I agree with you, spiderleaf – The American public is culpable, too. A big, boneheaded swath. There are scant teachers or leaders squeezing through the media-political mainstream to educate them out of ignorance, true, but really, the coffee, or toxic brew, has been burning for quite some time, and still far too many refuse to smell it and/or take action. It really doesnt take much “ingenuity” (Americans are self-described famous for it) to get to the source of what ails us, without the use of the useless establishment… if one is even halfway awake and cares to give a shit.

JJB – Your historical example from Germany, circa 1930s, is a great one. I will add that the comparison you cite is even more troubling considering that things have not yet gotten as dangerous for dissenters here as they were there, yet the oppo has no balls. Neither the Nazis’ strongarm measures against dissent nor the strength of dissent itself by the oppo is as evident here. What is evident is that this slow march to fascism, oligarchy, whatever, is basically unimpeded due to caving and enabling and collusion by just enough, always just enough, of the so-called opposition.

Really fucking troubling.

36. marisacat - 29 September 2006

oh we are all culpable. We always had been. One reason I always use “we”.

I just heard on MSNBC that Zawahiri has a new tape out. I almost feel like saying Check Amazon.com.

Anyway, on cue! He says what Cheney and others need, Zawahiri called Bush a “liar” and a “failure at the WoT”.

Time to roast a Democrat (they say the same!)… who will in turn roast some supposed member of the left.

MM does not have a current documentary… so who will they find.

Or they will vote even MORE conservativly…

37. NYCee - 29 September 2006

Our media, damn them. Right – middle – left. Pieces of toxic flotsam and jetsom, a motley collection of media blurts bubbling up to the surface.

Just commenting on the glaring lack of media antidote to the bloc of blockheaded Americans, nay, the encouragement to those who poll for wiretapping and torture and war war war… and USA USA USA… because we ARE better. We are. (Even Bill Maher says so… Even? … No, wait, he’s a warmonger too, who justifies the unjustifiable under the fig leaf of American exceptionalism. He is not a journalist or even pundit, I know. More a coMEDIAn)

(Part One of 2)

Starting from the “neutral middle.” From a recent Countdown – Subject: Iraq/torture and is the torture discussion taking the ball off Iraq, a nice diversion for Bush? (Odd concern, really.)

MILBANK: Well, it‘s sort of tricky, because you do expect these detainees to say just about anything. So, you know, unless you actually have the Red Cross workers being waterboarded while they‘re there, you don‘t have anything ironclad here.

What we‘ve seen is, it‘s very hard for these particulars to break through. We have this case of this innocent Canadian man confessing while he‘s being tortured in Syria to training with al Qaeda in Afghanistan, when in fact he was never there. [Oh right, Dana… this ONE case…]

So—but even that story doesn‘t necessarily break through in terms of shifting the debate. I think Americans are really paying attention to the fact that we‘re talking about the war or terror and not that we‘re having this sort of arcane dispute about the Geneva Conventions.

OLBERMANN: Yes, I think some might think of it as other than arcane.

Yeah, I think so. Really, he had to say that, having some conscience. Milbank’s attitude wrapped around those words was really… ugh.

AND, speaking of Nazi Germany…

Marisa, saw you mention Imus, re congressional callers post torture vote, so I took a spin to a place I have only happened upon on rare occasion – MSNBC’s Imus in the morning. Alas, I was too late for the pols, so I got a Nazi princess instead – Monica Crowley, spinning like the daughter Hitler might’ve wished he’d had, a Nazi princess bar none, spinning on Gitmo and torture. I was fascinated. Monica, her glittering antiTHEM blue eyes full of outrage, her sparkling whitened teeth biting out truths, framed by her unassailable bleached blondeness. WORD. I mean, she was THERE. On a special “manicured” guided tour.

According to Monica we should start making torture plainly, clearly what we do (as opposed to this faux “we do not torture torture” we do now, which she believes we do not, of course, she says…) because you can see the utter meanness in the detainees eyes, you know they would slice off your head or your daughter’s (or Hitler’s daughter’s!) and yet, horrors, we treat them so well, give them lazyboys and love seats for interrogation, and a fridge in case they want refreshment (in not on them).

Her eyes glittered bullets over this and more, like when she spat out her disgust that the Geneva Conventions are posted everywhere, in ALL necessary languages, and she only takes heart that the message is we dont WANT to give this info to you terrorist fuckers, we just do it cause we have to. She went on to say these Islamothugs (my word there, her thought, I am sure) have the audacity to attack guards, when they have it so good, and they fake mental illness to the psychiatrists, who, we so benevolently provide, she stresses, along with 24/7 medical benefits – dental too! Yet these thankless bastards spray the guards with “cocktails” of piss, feces, blood, spit… Still, our amazing guards stoically, heroically, do not beat the tar out of them… as they should! Some are in white, not orange, coveralls, the “medium” risk ones… although she doesnt know how a terrorist can be a medium risk, these people who believe in a religious ideology as the be all end all (no irony pierces her consciousness… Crusader Bush and his legions of base fans? Faith based, in End Times we trust…?)

A Nazi bitch if ever I saw one. But a rightwinger, we all know, so… not exactly “neutral.”

So let’s get “neutral”!

The channel segued into MSNBC’s regular, “neutral” news fare, and first thing I get is the “neutral” anchor, another glistening blonde with blinding white teeth whose name I cant recall, who opened with guest Senator Cornyn re the torture bill. She opened with these words, on the wings of a cheery smile:

“Congratulations on the passage of the bill [of right to torture], Senator!”

Congratulations? For legalizing torture? They are beyond…

38. NYCee - 29 September 2006

(Part 2, Media toxicity, right- middle -left)

Well, how about a sharp left turn then, to the LIBERAL Nation mag?

2 days ago I watched CUNY (City University of NY) channel, Ronnie Eldridge’s show (she is a liberal, married to Jimmy Breslin, btw) melded with a NY political commentator’s show, Muzzi or some such guy, and they had Katrina Vanden Heuvel and a Hispanic former Clinton speechwriter/NYTimes reporter (Clinton fan, “moderate”) to talk an hour’s worth of topics (Iraq, torture, NIE, Hugo, Dems, races, etc) Ronnie was cool. Katrina, I agreed with much of what she had to say, yet these two things were like, WHAT???

When asked who, I mean WHO is leadership material from the Dems, liberal leadership, Katrina offered up, approvingly, the names of Gov Bill Richardson and Mark Warner, along with Feingold and Obama. She also did that thing I hate where they say it’s not JUST the left saying xyz sensible point – I think Iraq has made us less safe – but these people who are dissenting with Bush are… Katrina put it this way, “these people are not the left, they are the REALISTS.”

Oh. Okay. The left cannot be real. Dreamers. Acid trippers. Hippie fantasia.

Oh, fucking give me a break. The realEST “realists” were that bunch of marchers, protesters, dissenters in the vanguard (ragtag or not) who preempted all the johnny-come-lately warship jumpers, those “realists” who were nowhere to be found when it mattered. It was the “unreal” left who tried to save the nation/world the pain and the problems. We were the fucking right ones, dammit. But no credit from even the Nation’s leading lady. She too falls into the pitfall. She too has some of that USA brand conditioner seeping into her brain, thru the hair follicles, making her utter unfortunate things.

This is the programming. Programming. This is a major source of our problem.

39. Deepest Throat - 29 September 2006

TustonDAZ – those three are gave a “we are above the law” attitude to the police.

Cano said the three guardsmen initially were uncooperative.

They gave us a bunch of yahoo military talk. We advised them we weren’t playing with them. Once they had spent a night here (in jail), they changed their attitude,” he said.

National Guard Capt. Dick Jinks, the public affairs officer for “Operation Jump Start,” declined to provide additional information about the three men.

“We don’t know exactly what happened. We know what the sheriff’s office is telling us,” he said. “Of course, once the civilian law enforcement is done with their investigation, we’ll take the matter under consideration. Our judge advocate general is involved.”

Shoot ’em boys, that “don’t not procescute soldiers” also includes crimes against beaners and wetbacks from here and the other side of the river.

40. NYCee - 29 September 2006

I meant to say, re Katrina citing the real “realists”

” -I think, in this case, it was re Iraq has made us less safe, increased, not decreased terrorism -”

RE the Monica Crowleys – et al et al et al – Would they ever put on someone as deep left as she is deep right? Lol. No. Part of the disease, that lack. A glaring aspect. The Crowleys abound. Imus snipes goodnaturedly at her blinding rightness. But they are pals. She is just another taste on the tray of offerings. Right to center. It’s sanctified because it’s offered. Sure, there are a few sanitized voices from the left as parsley decoration. But you are not expected to ingest or even remember their wan contributions.

41. marisacat - 29 September 2006

Milbank is Skull and Bones, himself. So there will nver be much coming from there.

Esp as we are torturers of old. I have days when our racist wars are just a continuation of the old slave patrollers.

It is that legitimising it, endless talk of it being fine fine fine and in fact all this talk for years of targeted kills — we are Israelis, fully, we glory in extra judicial killings… and I DO accept it is not an ordinary battlefield but they are feeding bloodlust in the nation – and I think that is partly the intention on BOTH SIDES —

but all this talk of torture being fine and parsing the severity… it slowly effectively removes inhibitions. And kills legal action against it. And Hamdan… all Bush had to do was make his moves to be “the sovereign”.

I mean in one of our early targetted kills, we hit a car in Yemen, 4 people iirc… there was a US Passport in the debris. We also killed somebody who was not bin laden as we bought the 6’4” reporst when he is really about 6’1”.

what a mess.

42. NYCee - 29 September 2006

Away from torture but on the same theme of our unfortunate press…

Watching Washington Journal I heard a WaPo “investigative” reporter, bland as prozac, like Sanger, NYT, respondng to a caller who called for public campaign funding to solve the corruption problems (as opposed to weakassed nip and tuck reforms and throw the bastards out come election time solutions). He didnt think much of it. He didnt think the public “would take kindly to their tax dollars being used to fund politicians’ campaigns.” Oh, I love the framing. This guy reports on corruption in govt, must certainly have a clue the system is rotten and sinking, and yet he dismisses a major cure to what ails us as if public financing is the same as me sending my money to George fucking Allen or George fucking Bush, sealed with a kiss.

Ooooh, noooo, you are sooo right, Mr Sage Reporter, I do NOT take kindly to that notion!

I see it as deliberate or unconscious buy-in, programming, to dampen any sort of revolt that would reform our nation out of the stinking sinkhole its in. These dudes and dudettes are programmed for status quo. Till the last brick crumbles.

43. marisacat - 29 September 2006

Katrina offered up, approvingly, the names of Gov Bill Richardson and Mark Warner, along with Feingold and Obama

I have to admit. I have disliked Katrina for years.

She wore me out.

Richardson is fuck up par excellence. Still hunting for votes from 04 and I JUST READ he is staking elections on “my GOTV operation”.

he failed in 04. Bush won by several thousand votes in NM.

Warner. Nothing to add. DLC all the way. As is Richardson.

Obama. Shoulda been a minister. But more money as part of the Illinois Dem machine. End Of Story.

Feingold. Well, he is welcome to try. But time to start talking.

The Clintons have done nothing but strangle the party. And take all of the air. On earth.

44. NYCee - 29 September 2006

Yes, Katrina can be annoying to me, too – the way she tries to so softly and agreeably stroke in the liberal case in her MSM appearances. Soft soap. She often does not make the case well and doesnt come off well.

In this appearance she did get in some good digs re Clinton wrecking the party, in general, same as youre making. Specifically, she brought up his FCC dereg., as they were discussing the media’s rightwing attacks on Clinton, the Fox/Wallace thing. Yeah, rich, too rich – Who let the (rightwing media) dogs out? The Big Dawg!

Actually, overall, she was more digestible, relaxed, in that CUNY format where she was in a likeminded, liberal atmosphere, (thanks to Ronnie Eldridge). But those two things I cited were not cool.

45. marisacat - 29 September 2006

oh yeah Telecommunications Act of 1996. Thanks so much Bill. And Hillareeeeee.

Omnibus Crime Bill. I don’t even know its final name. Another one. And the Personal Responsibilty Act. Or whatever they called Welfare only for the Rich

Basically Bill was an errand boy. What a pity.

Ezra has a big long explanation of Bill up at TAPPED. some long rant about soemthing TNR Leon Wieseltier has written. Who cares. And of all people MimiKatz chimes in.

They have gone to seed. Embarrassing.

46. NYCee - 29 September 2006

Oh, I see soccerdad’s piece. Ive been saying the same. Some are just down with the Republican agenda. Spineless is overused. It is like the all-purpose, one size fits all tag that disgruntled folks, esp disappointed Dem supporters/loyalists use. To say more would be a bridge too far.

I was musing along this topic today. I was thinking how they just dont care, the Reids, et al – I mean, one would think the charges of spineless, and dont have a message/original plan/stance on major issues would irk, would rub, would spur them to … CHANGE for the better.

So why dont they?

They are part of the rarefied air up there. And the system as is keeps the air up there rare? It’s their identity? It’s their money? Security? They know its rotten, but they cant see making it less rotten for all. They see in that that they would lose the little sweet haven that’s preserved… for them. They are afraid of being ostracized by the big and ever increasing rw power structure. Well, that gets into spineless, really much of this does. But then, spineless and heartless combined must be what it means to be a rightwinger, no?

Anyway, it seems they have this gig going on where they keep enough of the Dems voting left and enough voting right. This deliberate musical chairs – Biden, you be a fucker on bankruptcy and war, Feinstein, you do war and tax cuts, etc and so on… Nelson, youre covered to be as right as you like. You too, Landrieu…Kennedy, stay just the way you are… Big tent, and all that.

There’s a game going on.

47. marisacat - 29 September 2006

oh yeah of course they agree. One reason they are so disinterested in the “base”. They share nothing with them.

Hell, they agreed with Bush v Gore.

Never fought for the vote. They don’t believe in it.

48. TustonDAZ - 29 September 2006

Jumping back up thread to my post and D.Throat’s selection, here’s another link, but this time to the Minutmeanies


It seems they’re going to patrol the Altar valley, a really desolate stretch, but one where there is neither indians nor economically empowered Mexicans around, and so it is just like when they were in Tombstone…

Which brings me back to the NG; even though they’re stationed closer to nogales (a mexican city, for all intents and purposes) they are no where evident in the grocery stores, restaurants, etc. there. However, they seem to not mind the extra 20 miles to go to the very white retirement community of Green Valley where uniformed troops from Kentucky are clogging the lines at McDonalds and Safeway…

Of course the Dems, including my very closeted govenor Janet Napolitano and neighboring nabob Richardson, are all for the militarization of the border…

I think I’m going to go back and read my Gibson (scifi reference; Cyberpunk and others) in his future distopic vision the next set of wars for the US after the ME is South America…I gotta get ready for the post Iran-phase (under a McCain Hillareee unity ticket, ofcourse)

49. Arcturus - 29 September 2006

beating the habeas drum again, add the 1996 AEDPA to the list of Clinton hod-carrier achievements

thanks for picking up those links. I went ahead & stictched together more on GA, sovreigns & citizens, nazis, totalitarianism & BushCo: Congress & Giorgio Agamben’s State of Exception

& dig this! Gingrich Urges Overriding Supreme Court

50. JJB - 30 September 2006

NYCee: Thanks. Call it the passive/aggressive approach to fascism. Obviously, the German public knew better than to vote the Nazis into power, yet they just stood by and allowed them to take over. Bush failed to get a majority of the popular vote twice, and stole the office the first time around, and public apathy has allowed him to seize more power than any previous chief executive ever has. Nixon must be turning green with envy in whatever corner of Hell he currently inhabits.

As to Katrina VandeH, for all her virtues, she’s just another MSM insider, with a lot of close friends of dubious morals and political beliefs (not to mention National Security State bona fides their journalistic and publishing careers are cover for). A few years ago, there was quite a dust-up over the WaPo Book World‘s editor-in-chief Maria Arana giving books by authors like Conason/Lyons, Alterman, etc. to be reviewed by right-wingers, including one or two instances where the reviewers were mentioned unfavorably in the books being reviewed (reviewers did not mention this in their scathing articles). KVdH got into a real snit about people suggesting her great and good friend was anything less than a brilliant editor of scrupulous nature. They’ll always look out for those in their clique, no matter how odious their behavior.

51. marisacat - 30 September 2006

Katrina is involved with the DMI Drum Major Institute. As was Andy Young (he was a director, not sure she has a title, she is just always “around”). A really tired (IMO) hang out for Dems. DMI slobbered all over Kos (awarded some honor, an entire evening that he flew back for… Freddie Ferrer was there, labeled a “progressive”) and DMI has slobbered over Gleen Greenwald as well.

KvdH… she just wore me out.

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