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And what of Terror’s base? 16 November 2006

Posted by marisacat in DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Iraq War, Russ Feingold.

   Graffiti.org:  Iraq 2003 

On our way in, summer of 2002,  I would think… 20 years?… no too short.  30? hmmm the same as 20.  Fifty?  Old news, Japan and Germany, the DMZ in Korea, were surpassing that marker… no it seemed that Iraq (and Afghanistan) was part of some terrible hundred year plan for imperialism.  That seemed much more likely from the world that is Washington DC…

Of course, until they push us out…   Mostly I just think, God knows what is coming. 

From Tom Dispatch:

Permanent Facts on the Ground

[A]s the New York Times revealed in a front-page piece by Thom Shanker and Eric Schmitt on April 19, 2003, just after Baghdad fell, the Pentagon arrived in the Iraqi capital with plans already on the drawing board to build four massive military bases (that no official, then or now, will ever call “permanent”). Today, according to our former Secretary of Defense, we have 55 bases of every size in Iraq (down from over 100); five or six of these, including Balad Airbase, north of Baghdad, the huge base first named Camp Victory adjacent to Baghdad International Airport, and al-Asad Airbase in western Anbar province, are enormous — big enough to be reasonable-sized American towns with multiple bus routes, neighborhoods, a range of fast-food restaurants, multiple PX’s, pools, mini-golf courses and the like.

Though among the safest places in Iraq for American reporters, these bases have, with rare exceptions, gone completely undescribed and undiscussed in our press (or on the television news). From an engineering journal, we know that before the end of 2003, several billion dollars had already been sunk into them. We know that in early 2006, the major ones, already mega-structures, were still being built up into a state of advanced permanency. Balad, for instance, already handled the levels of daily air traffic you would normally see at Chicago’s ultra-busy O’Hare and in February its facilities were still being ramped up. We know, from the reliable Ed Harriman, in the latest of his devastating accounts of corruption in Iraq in the London Review of Books, that, as you read, the four mega-bases always imagined as our permanent jumping-off spots in what Bush administration officials once liked to call “the arc of instability” were still undergoing improvement.

Englehardt includes a tidbit on Gates:

Here, for instance, is Robert Gates’ thinking eighteen months ago in a seminar at the Panetta Institute at California State University in Monterey on “phased troop withdrawals” from Iraq:

“But Mr. Gates qualified his comments, noting it sometimes takes time to accomplish your goals. Sixty years after the end of the Second World War, ‘there are still American troops in Germany,’ he noted. ‘We’ve had troops in Korea for over 50 years. The British have had troops in Cyprus for 40 years… If you want to change history, you have to be prepared to stay as long as it takes to do the job.”

So hold onto your hats. Tragedy and more tragedy seems almost guaranteed, and the Pentagon has just submitted to Congress a staggering $160 billion supplemental appropriation request in order to continue its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

   Lebanon, Beirut - Demascus - Sofar - Bekaa road [afp]


More to come, I am sure… I see that Murtha lost his bid.. by a wide margin.  Blue Dogs yesterday were happy to say most of them were for Steny… as was Maxine Waters and Barney Frank.  Tauscher was out front for Steny, another CA Blue Dog, Anna Eshoo was for Murtha…

Off to the races it seems… 😉


UPDATE, 1:10 pm, rainy day in San Francisco…

Feingold is up via TruthOut, on Iraq:

   [O]n Tuesday, I introduced legislation requiring U.S. forces to redeploy from Iraq by July 1, 2007. My legislation recognizes that a target date for the redeployment of U.S. troops from Iraq will help pressure the Iraqis to get their political house in order. Simply announcing when we will begin redeployment, without any end date, is unlikely to put adequate pressure on the Iraqis.

    A target date isn’t just critical to our Iraq policy, it is essential for our national security policy. We cannot adequately focus on the pressing national security challenges we face around the globe when so many of our brave troops are in Iraq, and so many billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars are being spent there. A timetable ensures that we can refocus our resources on fighting terrorist networks and on addressing trouble spots around the world that threaten our national security. [snip]


Norman Solomon on how NYT and other Big MSM is screwing with the narrative (what else is new):

[I]n the latest media assault, right-wing outfits like Fox News and the Wall Street Journal editorial page are secondary. The heaviest firepower is now coming from the most valuable square inches of media real estate in the USA — the front page of the New York Times.

The present situation is grimly instructive for anyone who might wonder how the Vietnam War could continue for years while opinion polls showed that most Americans were against it. Now, in the wake of midterm elections widely seen as a rebuke to the Iraq war, powerful media institutions are feverishly spinning against a pullout of U.S. troops.

Under the headline “Get Out of Iraq Now? Not So Fast, Experts Say,” the Nov. 15 front page of the New York Times prominently featured a “Military Analysis” by Michael Gordon. The piece reported that — while some congressional Democrats are saying withdrawal of U.S. troops “should begin within four to six months” — “this argument is being challenged by a number of military officers, experts and former generals, including some who have been among the most vehement critics of the Bush administration’s Iraq policies.” [snip]

ugh.  Gordon was impossible in the run up to and early days of the war… it seemed entirely possible he lived in Wolfowitz’s jacket pocket.


UPDATE, 3:30 pm

I am late landing on this at Rigorous Intuition:

[W]hat kind of world would greet Robert Gates’ appointment as Secretary of Defense as a happy news item? Regrettably, this one. That’s the true Bush legacy: diminished expectation, and delight and surprise at achieving debased, small victories that have to be handed to us.

I don’t mean that we shouldn’t take the good with the bad when we find it. But the good we can find is not as satisfying, enduring or as just as the good we should be able to make for ourselves. So yes, we’ll accept the gift of Donald’s Rumsfeld’s overdue resignation, yet Rumsfeld instead deserves to receive the revolt of our conscience and the judgement of the dead. American and international law ought to deliver humanity’s verdict, and that they won’t or they can’t is why we’re expected to dance in the streets when heads are made to roll for our pleasure  […]

For five years there have been worries that the Bush crowd would do more than merely steal elections; they would do away with them altogether. But this is to misunderestimate the nature of late American fascism, which still needs the sustaining fantasies of liberty and representative democracy. Gains by the gentler, junior partners of the Washington Consensus serve this end, and present the impression of change while changing nothing. (I anticipate more tragicomic found-humour in the spectacle of “yellow-dog” Democrats justifying a now uncloseted bipartisan agenda.)

The neocons have served their purpose, and probably outlived their usefulness, which is why men like Perle and Ledeen are doing a shameless volte-face on Iraq. They have been a shock to the system of America, and to Americans who hadn’t realize what kind of system America had. It’s been a five-year plan of radicalism, and perhaps now comes two years of something like stability. But not a rollback. Most Democrats don’t have the interest in or the stomach for the fight, and many of them voted with the Republicans for tyrannical and bloody-minded measures that are not going anywhere, except burrowing deeper into the American routine.  [snip]

Interesting thread to the post at RI… ruminations on Gates all thru it…


UPDATE, 5:20 pm…

“Werther” drops in with insights on the ISG… I love slams like these, except I see no reason to give SDO’C a free ticket out of town:

A run-down of its other principals should give us a strong indication where this operation is heading. Aside from Baker, there is as co-chairman once again Lee Hamilton, a past master at these performances. As the éminence beige of the Democratic foreign policy apparatus, Hamilton has been participating in high-level cover-ups of government shenanigans stretching back to the Iran-Contra affair.

The rest of the cast consists of: Vernon Jordan, one of Bill Clinton’s money men and obviously intended to slap the Wahabbite insurgents of the Black Caucus into line; Ed Meese, faithful purveyor of balderdash for countless decades and a link to the Reaganites; Lawrence Eagleburger, a saturnine Bush family wheel horse and Kissinger liegeman known mainly for his staggeringly immense girth and ability to balance on a cane while juggling a cigarette and an asthma inhaler; Leon Panetta, a professional ward heeler and thief of a 1986 Indiana Congressional election, tasked to corral a spectrum of Democrats roughly bounded by Rahm Emanuel and Steny Hoyer; former Defense Secretary William Perry, representing the interests of the merchants of death; Charles Robb, who began his career as a White House doorman and who symbolically remains one four decades later; ex-Senator Alan Simpson, wise-cracking cowpoke (and member of a disastrous Congressional delegation to Iraq in 1990, whose purpose was to ply Saddam with U.S. taxpayer loot via the Commodity Credit Corporation); and former Associate Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, the lone member of the commission with no obvious ties to Beltway monkey business and presumably tapped for the sheer novelty value.

Probably the only reason Baker and Hamilton didn’t select Clark Clifford or Paul Nitze to serve on the commission is that these two quintessential Establishmentarians are legally dead. But the leaden predictability of its membership preordains its conclusions.

Given that the rules governing these types of commissions are as ritualized as Noh drama, we believe it is safe to roll out our own projection of what its findings will be. Here, in capsule form, are the Baker-Hamilton report’s major findings: [snip]

Werther zips thru a synopsis of the likely advisories… and then lands this:

There will be more in the report, but it will amount to cotton-wool packing, filigree, and cathedral gargoyles.

The politicians will rush to praise the report’s sagacity, and heed it, more or less. For the Establishment, which stretches back through Clifford and Nitze, through Henry Stimson, Colonel House, Albert Beveridge, back through the Morgans and the Astors, through the founding of Skull & Bones, and finally alighting on Alexander Hamilton, the prototypical oligarch of the new North American republic, it will be a Bromo-Seltzer after the nightmarish hangover of a failed scion’s rebellion against his illustrious father. It will be an assurance, like a bank vault slamming shut, that in Washington, everything will be fundamentally the same for all eternity.

Unless you heard the sound of some Great Un-Screwing?  … I did not…




1. TustonDAZ - 16 November 2006

The whole Hoyer ascension is surely a signal that the “new” boyz in town aren’t fomenting for any “peciptous” withdrawl and massive policy change, and certainly no real trouble (now or later) for George’s eldest…

I think its also a shot across Pelosi’s bow: may be Speaker, but that doesn’t seem to mean very much when she decides to try to sail out of the armada…

2. Ezekiel - 16 November 2006

Spoonful has a popular diary up that argues that the authoritarianism problem is so bad in the U. S. that it cannot be risked to try impeachment, or perhaps even prosecute the UCLA cops who tazered the Muslim student.

Putting these bad cops in jail will do nothing to stop that culture from producing more where those came from–any more than killing more “terrorists” in Iraq will stop THAT culture from producing more where THOSE came from. It’s the same problem in a different place.

And the same thing goes for impeaching Bush and Cheney. It may be gratifying. It is certainly necessary. But it doesn’t solve the problem that brought them and their ideology to power in the first place. The “Freeper” problem.

And as scared as I am of letting people like these cops get away with their behavior, I am MORE scared of allowing authoritarians like these commenters and their Republican blogger friends, to dictate public policy by putting cops–and Presidents–who are beholden to them in power.

In fact, prosecuting those who have committed these types of offenses to common sense, human rights, and basic decency, while certainly a matter of duty, honor and justice, can even backfire temporarily by making these authoritarian types feel even more persecuted.

What was it that was written in your excerpt from Rigorous Intuition–“fantasies of liberty and representative democracy?”

3. marisacat - 17 November 2006


I really wonder what is coming. Slow slumber, the continuation of it, requires that the electorate, who this time really DO seem to want something done… decide to renig on their own feelings when they voted.

Be interesting to watch.

I found this interesting over at Counterpunch, from Susan Smith.

The angry electorate

According to the New York Times’ exit polls, six in ten voters said their vote was based on national, not local, issues. The same percentage disapproved of the war in Iraq and said the war had not increased the security of the United States. Six in ten voters also disapproved of the way Congress was handling its job. Six in ten voters who described themselves as “independents” voted Democrat, while two-thirds said they were dissatisfied or angry with Republican leaders.

There was also a class component to the Democrats’ victories. About half of all voters said they had just enough money to continue at their present standard of living (otherwise known as living a paycheck or two away from poverty), while one-fifth said they were falling behind financially.

The Wall Street Journal reported that exit polls showed that of the 31 percent of voters who said they are “getting ahead financially,” 63 percent voted Republican; among the 51 percent who reported they are “maintaining their living standard,” 39 percent voted Republican; and among the 17 percent who said they are “falling behind financially,” only 21 percent voted Republican.

Indeed, 66 percent of those who hadn’t completed high school voted Democrat.

Race also played a key role in voting patterns, although a higher percentage of whites also voted Democrat. The percentage of white voters going for Democrats was 48 percent in 2006, compared with 41 percent in 2004. African-Americans continued their long-standing loyalty to the Democrats, by an 88 percent margin (identical to 2004). Asian voters voted by a margin of 67 percent for Democrats in 2006, compared to 56 percent in 2004.

But Latino voters showed the greatest increase in Democratic voting: 73 percent in 2006, compared with 53 percent in 2004. Only 27 percent of Latinos supported Republicans, in contrast to the more than 40 percent of Latinos who voted for Bush in 2004.

The 2006 election also drew the highest percentage of young voters (under age 30) in a mid-term election in 20 years-up by more than 4 percent since 2002. According to exit polls, 61 percent voted Democratic in House elections, playing a key role in close races that pushed Democrats over the top.

4. D. Throat - 17 November 2006

BTW the “Netroots Inc. progressives” are pushing for anti choice “netroots favorite and thirty-something Representative Tim Ryan” for DCCC chair.

…and sent out missionaries to stump for a Mr. “Democrats are trying to take political advantege of Katrine” Breaux acolyte in La…. notice how they can only support far right wing African Americans… kinda like the GOP supporting Steele, Blackwell and Swann…

Also I noticed no “PURITY” cards have been pulled on the Democratic Corporate special interests groups…for the past years Kos has been whining that it was the “special interests groups” that was tearing the party aparty… well in Kos’s mind that only applied to women’s issues and civil rights.

Some special interest groups are MORE special than others.

Who was the first and loudest special interest group that shat all over this victory and is trying to pull the party apart for their own personal interests?

Pro-Choice: NO
Gay rights advocates: NO
Environmentalists: NO
Anti War advocates: NO
Spotted owl protectors: NO
Wefare Queens: NO

Let me give you a hint:

Asked by a reporter whether Dean should be dumped, Carville replied, “In a word, do I think? Yes.”

He added, “I think he should be held accountable.” He added, “I would describe his leadership as Rumsfeldian in its competence.”

The epitome of DLC.

The only special interest group that refuses to “get along” with the rest of the Democratic party is the corporate raiders of the DLC… to which Kos and Conman Armstrong will repeat their Cheney-esque mantra that “The DLC is in it’s final throes”... meanwhile so far every single Dem presidential candidate is or has been the chairperson/committee chair of the DLC.

But the Boyos will once again ingnore the facts and promote the fact-esques…. because it really is the spotted owl folks and welfare queens that are destroying the Dem party… no need to look behind the curtain… and that won’t get you a free bus trip to New Orleans.

5. marisacat - 17 November 2006

LOL… someone unconcerned about CA iniatives but to be pissed at them and thus vote a blanket NO while taking Chevron ad money… (all put aside for the prog cafes I am sure) is very unconcerned about K Street politics.

Basically he just “wants some”…

The other day MyDD had an entire FP entry thanking their advertisers (and listing each, with links) and exhorting people to support them. Geesh.

The thing about the BlogSnots is the grubbiness. meanwhile wrapping themselves in bleached, pure white swaddling clothes…

6. AlanSmithee - 17 November 2006

The DLC is in it’s “last throes?” Really? So have all the real money sewn up in the democrat party is called “last throes?” No kidding? That’s possibly the dumbest bit of pwoggie-bloggie puffery I’ve heard today.

7. marisacat - 17 November 2006

LOL… good diary at BMT. Catch the tense push back.

Poor Blahgs and Box Cars. Struggling not to face what the party is – they have embraced so much and called it progressive… or something… ;).

8. cactus ed - 17 November 2006

Typical smokescreen from BooMan in that diary. When he gets uncomfortable with the subject, he attempts to confuse things with semantic and epistemological questions. I consider that type of response to be a concession.

9. marisacat - 18 November 2006

LOL… Love it.. embraced by Netroots, reported on by Ttagaris and yet DLC for years and years.

So cute. So progressive.

LOL what was that about the DLC being nearly, almost, just about… close to …. GONE?

Somebody clapped and begged for Tinkerbell!!

Oh sure “Jefferson is a bad man”… no doubt.

10. D. Throat - 18 November 2006

You gotta check out this… these are the “progressive” netroots… pushing back on the idea of “heavens forbid” a diversified FP…. nah it’s better to send a white Northern kid to NOLA to report back on Black voters and a predominantly Black race… who is backing a the Black fron DLC candidate … never mind that the DLC was instituted specifially to curb the Black voices within the Dem Party…and if there has to be a Black voice then they will “create” one.

11. D. Throat - 18 November 2006

Reading the Carter post on MyDD you would think they were GOP talking about how the negroes are too dumb to have the vote.

Step back for a quick second. We’re in the South, and Karen Carter is pro-gay marriage. That’s a courageous position to take.

I guess he should tell that to the Black lesbian that won a state senate seat in GA…. they are just full of stereotypes trying to enforce their world view onto whatever community they go.

Like CT. did they ever stop once to ask Dems WHY they liked Lieberman,,, no they just called them idiots.

These little boys should go home back to their toys.

Remember these are also the same little boys that saw nothing wrong in excluding minorities from the Clinton lunch… they speak for all people… so they say… but to me it seems like they speak for the DLC and the Clintons…. who in the hell sent them to NOLA????
Al From?

They couldn’t stand the uppity nigra in GA… so suddenly a DLC backed nigra is acceptable…go way back to another nigra that was running against the turn coat Alexander … I remember Kos calling her a housewife and saying she was not worth the time or bother. Now they are going to swing into town like the little white knights that they are to tell the negros that they are too stupid to understand who they are voting for…

Carter got 4% of the vote…30% of the registered voters come from Jefferson Parish (that is not the whites who are against her) 70% come from Orleans and they can’t stand her… 4% is just counting family member… it means that Black folk don’t like her or trust her…. period… bullshit about prochoice and pro gay marriage… and having white boys from the north to ride into town… ain’t gonna help matters much…

who are the real idiots????

12. marisacat - 18 November 2006


13. James - 18 November 2006

I’ve been following that BMT thread, and it really is a shame – louisianagirl tried to have a discussion and instead was rewarded with dick waving ad nauseum. The classic was this psyfighter kid trying that old “pulling rank” move, which just made him look like a junior Armando.

14. marisacat - 18 November 2006

Hi James… I had just caught up on it… about 14 new posts since last I read it.

Well I am sorry for the boobs and rubes, but louisanagirl is right… it is an issue. One of selling imo. They sell these candidates to the BlogoPeople, knowing they are more likely to get interest and plain old cash if they call the candidates “progressive”.

I sure do not see any straightforward acknowledgement at MyDD that Karen Carter is DLC. Oooo nooooooooo.

16 joining the New Dems… Blue Dogs are claiming 10 [and iirc Progressive Caucus was expecting abut 6 – 8]. Democrats for Life are screaming with joy over 6. Few of these are progressive.

Christ, hard core christians who sport “pro life” were using “progressive”.

Plain old advertising.

15. D. Throat - 19 November 2006

LOL looks like little MyDD got some NOLA push back:

MyDD: Moral Ghostbusters

Looking over their “selected” blogroll … why is it NOT surprising that MyDD could not find one African Amerian blogger in all of New Orleans and it’s diaspora…. [hint: there is one writing up a storm on a BrotherBigBoxBlog …oh but she is Black and against Carter]

Does MyDD think by selecting to listen to no African American NOLA bloggers with that they will have a more positive reception for Carter, who even Taggaris admits is considered the “white candidate

…is MyDD perpetuating the “Southern Strategy” [dividing by race to win elections] in the blogoshpere???

or are all the Black bloggers hiding in the same place they were when the “progressives” went looking for them to attend YearlyKos and the Clinton Harlem lunch… How can the “progressives” be held accountable… when Black folk won’t cooperate and just appear without being summoned.

16. NYCee - 19 November 2006

11. JJB – 15 November 2006

Thought I would push this reply up to the newer thread, JBB. Re our exchange on Webb, just noticed a Billmon where he says something along the lines I did. As I said, Im wholly wait and see, but there have been, thus far, some encouraging signs of change in Webb’s rhetoric, and the promise of some fresh air from him re the obscene state of affairs for the American worker, middle and lower income folks.

Comrade Webb

He’s on MTP right now, Tester too. Watching, waiting to see.

17. NYCee - 19 November 2006

Also, JJB, re your concern about Webb, as voiced here…

Just checked out that piece on Webb you mention, it is good to hear someone other than John Edwards make this argument. Of course, many a populist was also a racist and nativist, so the political tradition is not without its negative aspects. I notice that Webb doesn’t pass up a chance to blame the poor economic standing of many Americans on “a vast underground labor pool from illegal immigration” in the same sentence in which he condemns globalization and outsourcing. That’s like putting cancer and AIDS in the same sentence with the common cold as life-threatening health scourges.

I dont know exactly what he would propose on immigration, but I assume he is not a hardliner, as I have never heard that tacked onto him.

Another angle on that line of his about immigration could be that there is a very real problem American workers face regarding the Chamber of Commerce element behind illegal immigration – ie, keep them desperate and laying low, keep their wages and benefits pauvre -and therefore, for the general citizenry as well – keep the masses impoverished, treading water, going under. Ergo, keep them coming! The more the merrier… for the ever more enriched cadre of elites who rule the roost in this country.

Whether it is the ability to pay piss poor wages and thus lower wages overall or have an ever larger bloc of workers who will not step up and fight for rights (unionize) and cannot VOTE, illegal immigrants are a wet dream for big business interests. I think this is part of the problem for American workers and liberals … that the Chamber of Commerce is the strongest hand fighting against the Tancredo/Sensennbrenner other hand, ie, the fist that smacks down hard on illegal immigrants. Two ugly hands of America, but one has the “appearance” of being more humane, ie, the Chamber of Commerce wing.

Maybe his statement is more aimed at that aspect of the problem we face – with globalization contributing – than the racist anti immigrant stance of the nativist, jingoistic types.

18. TustonDAZ - 19 November 2006

buenas donas!

Let me share a little USCOC member (i think) and “illegal immigration story”…a family I know in Magdalena has a son who worked al norte for a company building “Family Dollar” stores all across the country. They were shipped in worked 70 hrs a week for 10 $/hr and no overtime pay, when the contract ended the hotel they were dormed in was conviently raided by immigration…

19. marisacat - 19 November 2006

The immigration issue is bad all around. They are held in an illegal, vulnerable state where the employer has all the power.

Conversely, or inversely, I believe immigration, since Civil Rights, has been used to socially re-engineer the US. I wish I could meet an immigratn group that did not disdain American blacks. And in many cases “disdain” is a mild word. And American blacks have only been here 400+ years.

Frankly I could support a decent, if one could ever exist, guest worker program but also cessation of all immigration for a few years.

Because it has been pell mell for decades without a chance for a real breath.

20. gong - 19 November 2006

marisacat, what would make for a decent guest worker program? If I’m right to think that guest workers (unlike people on ordinary work visas) cannot become citizens no matter how long they stay, then it’s hard for me to imagine that status serving any purpose other than exploitation. (Which I assume is why you seem to doubt that there could be a decent guest worker program. Still curious what you think a decent one would look like.)

21. marisacat - 19 November 2006

Well after 40+ years I have kind of given up. We seem to be into abuse in this country, or co-opting and killing from within and without what efforts do get started.

LAT had a 5 parter on the sad state of the UFW, United Farm Workers, the Cesar chavez organisation. It was heart breaking. And if that union, or cooperative or whatever the words that apply, were viable it could be a player now. Across a wide spectrum. It could enter into negotiations for a system of day owrker organising… soemthing the country desperately needs.
SEIU and aligned unions try… and have had some successes at getting groups able to unionise [home health care workers] and so on, because many of their members are legal residents and working at or near the bottom. It is pretty clear, tho skirted in public language, that SEIU wants to organise “workers” legal and otherwise… obviously anathema to the anti immigrant groups.

Supposedly Pence of Indiana, R and a strict/scary social right winger, did develop a guest worker program (I did not find it to read) becasue he is a Main St Republican… but Pat Buchanan and Phyllis Shafly took him on and beat him back. He has dropped the plan.

We would need some non discriminatory system or ability to process people and I don’t hold much hope. Issues of slavery and an underclass of color and now with issues of forced or legislated reduced access to services or now a desire to prohibit services for classes of people, in a new open way, openly spoken off.. Such as Hazeltine PA (think that is the name of the town) where all new residents must register at City Hall. Hispanics, LEGAL ONES and naturalised citizens, are moving out. US citizens, born here but with accents, are moving out.

and frankly people branded as “populists” like Webb (he has decades of writing that is wholly divisive and exclusionary about all sorts of people, aside from being a militarist who regards citizens as extraneous) being elevated complicate issues of race and exclusion.

It is very troubling as this war has two faces dying, small town white American and Hispanic/Latino/Latina, citizen and non citizen. It puts a lot of things into sharp focus frankly. Including abortion laws in South America. We know where we will find our official and unofficial armies of this century.

And any program would require vigilant, both sides of the border, oversight… I don’t see a lot of hope for that either.

And brown and black people would have to band together, in a worker movement. IN the protests here (as complicated as that all was by the Church) Asians (I saw Chinese faces) joined in, some OLDER ones. That was stunning! And heartening!

But frankly the Democrats are intent on racial division, just as the Republicans are. They just talk softer and have small sticks. And support a cheaper wall on the border.

So movements have to be, as always, outside the party.

The two big industries where immigrants, legal and otherwise work (other than construction which I see less of, tho I guess NOLA post katrina/flood/levees is a horrific model of abuse) is restaurant and farm. Both carry big sticks.

We passed a proposition in SF in this latest election (SF values LOL) to mandate “sick days” and immediately the GGRA, Golden Gate Restaurant Association is taking it to court. They oppose everything to do with health/safety, heath insurance coverage, raising minimum wages, all of it.

And immigratns,-legal resident iwth work permit, illegal, guest worker status – would be [are] at the bottom of the barrel of all of that. GGRA basically is opposed to Wage / hours laws in this country.

Just the contorted mess of drivers licenses in CA and the SW has been such a mess. Huge false issue. Just accept a legal Mexican drivers license and be done with it… or mandate that every driver, w/o being turned in, have a state license – for sheer safety.

And everything that is not ”white bread USA!” now is suspect as “terror”. Becasue it dovetails so neatly with racism and exclusion of “the other” … well, what can make it go away…

Plus we refuse to admit that NAFTA intensified a long difficult issue.

Sorry … long disjointed ramble.

It seems a given that at some point, a broad based worker movement does surface in this country… but hard to see the schedule for one…

22. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 November 2006

we abuse each other, why would we treat any outsiders any better?

oh, and on the immigrants re: American blacks … some of the most brutal and dismissive and HATEFUL things I’ve ever heard said were out of the mouths of immigrant blacks. I knew a very nice and hard-working Jamaican woman in NYC who could burn your ears off re: “hood rats” and how lazy they were. Even worse than hearing some Puerto Rican friends talk about Mexicans and Guatamalans.

People very easily fall into dividing up other people into groups, and then despising them.

23. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 November 2006

agreed re: the drivers licenses … hell, my immigration policy would be completely open borders btwn Mexico, Canada and the USA, with each country’s drivers licenses accepted as legal. Bring ALL three countries workplace safety and health rules into line w/ each other, as well as environmental laws (Mexico City DESPERATELY needs CA-like emissions rules). I think you’d create a vibrant and stabile market after a rough decade that would accomplish wonderful things, and god knows that an injection of the social movements and artistic movements into this country out of Mexico would give us a much needed shot of human feeling and soul.

Instead, the borders are only open to goods and capital, and people be damned.

24. marisacat - 19 November 2006


norn is suffering in his job at a very high end international design company, a Jamaican woman is now his boss (different than the boss who hired him) and is homophobic. He had been so happy htere, is still working almsot 7 – 11 and thru the miracles of computers and data, can track that his designs are more successful at every point in the pipeline than other people in his dept.

It is very high end childrens’ clothing design and his designs are sold globally depending on what divisions pick up his designs.

But there he suffers.

I read a very excellent article by Stanley Crouch… I oftn don’t agee with him, but read him, it is like hearing an oboe… he makes very sharp points about how divorced from the American black experience Obamammamama is. Wham! Bam!, Stanley has Obama in a corner. (will hunt for the link)

And I just got thru hearing Paul Robeson Jr at the Miami Book Fair (with Amy Goodman), spectacular!… but he talks truth and Bullshit Obamamama talks a white line of faith and family and, ultimately, of submitting. That is what I hear, the processed white message of “submit”.

25. marisacat - 19 November 2006
26. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 November 2006

I’ve always valued Stanley Crouch … too bad he’s yet another of those voices all-but removed from the public conversation in this country.

27. bayprairie - 19 November 2006

atrios runs another “thoughtful” piece

Paranoid Ideas


I wonder if it occurs to any of these people that maybe, just maybe, the repeated calls for regime change and bombing campaigns by prominent pundits and senior administration officials might you know, be perceived as a genuine threat by people in and around the Middle East.

what’s funny about this post is its a link to lawyers guns and money where the post finds serious fault with glenn beck. what’s even funnier is the fact that as atrios links to a post that bashes glenn beck he’s also running an ad in the upper left hand corner PROMOTING glenn beck.

who really owns who here?

pony up all you nutrootz progressives. no one’s really laughing at you on the way to make a deposit the bank.

28. bayprairie - 19 November 2006

thats AT the bank..


29. marisacat - 19 November 2006

who really owns who here?

pony up all you nutrootz progressives. no one’s really laughing at you on the way to make a deposit the bank.

LOL The Boyz are mum – on ownership that is… as for the ponies and the progs… I suspect the boyz DO laugh.

Here is a hoot!! that someone emailed in over the transom…

30. Madman in the Marketplace - 19 November 2006

ah, Duncan and his buddies …

they, like the winger pundits, refuse to face any sense of responsibility for the whole of their site … NONE … and they resent and strike back at anybody who points it out to them.

worn away by the corrosion of their righteous “compromises”.

Sad, silly, no idea of history or compromises, of how movements are bought off … willing and EAGER to be bought off.

OH, and in that thread Marisacat linked … I’m “crazy, insane”?!?!

LOL … silly boy.

31. bayprairie - 19 November 2006

getting into the spirit of things…waxing nostalgic about all the water under the bridge at la gran naranja…thinking back about the past at daily kos…i thinking the diarist whos absence left the hugest hole, and whom i miss the post, is pastor dan.

what’s that you say?

he never left??????

32. bayprairie - 19 November 2006

the post? i mean THE MOST!


33. marisacat - 19 November 2006

I soooooooooooo miss pastor dan’s COLLECTION PLATE.

What it’s all about… all that fake ”movement”. They wanna hear the jingle of the coins.

They will swear it is the sound of the Liberty Bell.

It ain’t.

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