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Sanctity of life… 22 January 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, Abortion Rights, Iraq War, Sex / Reproductive Health, WAR!.

  Harry's 1968 journey from Kuwait to London, photo of the road from Basra to Khoramshahr

Harry’s 1968 car trip from Kuwait to London, here the road from Basra to Khoramshahr

The road from Basra in Iraq runs south-west following the Shatt al Arab to the Iraq-Iran border near Khorramshahr.

The traditional and most direct route from Kuwait to Europe was to follow the road from Basra to Baghdad, then to Mosul in northern Iraq, and then into South-East Turkey. However we had been advised against that route due to what the British Foreign Office called “bandit activities” around the Kurdish town of Mosul.

Instead we diverted westwards at Basra, heading to the Iraq-Iran border near Khorramshar  with the intention of travellling north through Iran to reach Turkey from the North-East. We welcomed the opportunity to see Iran, but it meant we no longer had the opportunity to see Baghdad, the capital of Iraq.


Back, it seems a long time ago, at the beginning of the war, Paper Tigress posted the link to this lovely rambling essay of Sinan Antoon, published in Al Ahram, the Eqyptian weekly.

Of Bridges and Birds

[B]aghdad was for many years the enchanting “mother of the world”, as the city was once called. It was so sophisticated and elegant in its golden age that an Arabic verb, yatabaghdadu, was derived from its name to signify how people used to emulate the coveted styles and ways of Baghdad’s elites.

Thousands of invisible umbilical chords still bind the city to many a soul. With every bomb, missile and fire that has erupted over the last three weeks in Baghdad, I have felt the pain of those chords being violently severed in my heart. Now, alas, even some of those who are still in the city’s womb are unleashing decades of pain, violence and war upon its body and scarring its memory, together with their own collective history, in a masochistic or matricidal orgy. […]

   Atlas Tours, Baghdad 1997

Reuters reported that these annual migration routes could be disrupted when the war erupted. In the period between mid-March and mid-April, one finds the greatest number of birds in Iraq. Since many of these birds cannot make it to their breeding grounds in one flight, they stop and “refuel” on the banks of the Tigris and Euphrates and in the southern marshes drained by Saddam.

Every year around this time I would look for the one or two white storks that used to nest on the dome of the old church in Bab Al- Mu’azzam. I wonder if they have made it to Baghdad this year? I doubt it. I clipped that Reuters article from Al-Hayat and left it lying around. When I read the article again on the second day of the war, American B-52 bombers were taking off from Fairfield Airbase in England and heading towards the skies over Baghdad. Someone on Fox News described them as “beautiful birds”, and Rumsfeld spoke of “the humanity which went into the making of these weapons”.

If they don’t perish first, the storks will try to return next year. […]

  Baghdadi checkpoint

I felt pangs of pain a week ago as I watched an American tank crawling across Al- Jumhuriyya Bridge in the heart of Baghdad. I have crossed that bridge hundreds of times, and I used to linger a bit half way along, especially when walking alone, and look down at the river. The Tigris splits Baghdad into two sections: Al-Karkh, on the western bank, and Al-Rusafah on the eastern. I used to recite Ali Ibn Al- Jahm’s famous line about the enchanting, almond-shaped eyes of the Baghdadi women who used to cross from one bank to the other in the nineth century. On a lucky day, I would encounter a descendent or two of those women. Now the moon-like faces celebrated in thousands of verses are hiding in houses on both banks, white voyeuristic satellites are hovering above and scrutinising every inch of the city’s body. […]


Now, tanks spit their fire towards a row of houses on the eastern bank of the Tigris, and blazes go up. A correspondent announces that Apaches are hovering over Baghdad for the first time, but, alas, this is a familiar species in our part of the world. They have come to make sure that Baghdad’s residents join the Palestinians as the fortunate recipients of the latest form of lethal “liberation”.

Rivers of blood are flowing along the Tigris as America tattoos its imperial insignia into the bodies of Iraqi children, stamping their futures with its corporate logos in order to “safeguard” it. There is an abyss in and around Iraq, and it is widening by the moment. But one must look for, and cling to, a bridge. And so I try. A few bridges north of Al- Jumhuriyya Bridge lies Jisr Al-Shuhada’ (Martyrs’ Bridge). Throngs of Iraqis burst onto the streets in January 1948 to express their rejection of the Portsmouth Treaty signed between the despicable Iraqi government of the time and Great Britain. Some of them were killed by the regime’s bullets on that bridge …

  134 bridges bombed in 1991

Allied war planes destroyed 134 bridges in the 1991 war.

They Came to Baghdad

945 Buwayhids; 1055 Seljuks; 1258 Mongols led by Hulagu; 1340 Jalayrs; 1393 & 1401 Mongols led by Tamerlane; 1411 Turkoman Black Sheep; 1469 Turkoman White Sheep ; 1508 Safavids ; 1534 Ottomans under Sultan Sulayman the Magnificent; 1623 Safavids; 1638 Ottomans under Sultan Murad IV; 1917 British; 1941 British again to depose pro-German government; 2003 Anglo-American invasion


In a more prosaic reading of whatever it is that Bush and others mean by “sanctity of life”, Scott Lemieux has up a post in TAPPED that includes links to the 1988 Canadian court case,  R. v. Morgentaler, that broke open abortion prohibitions and restrictions there… and some commentary on Roe v Wade and Doe v Bolton.

If I happen on other articles or essays that don’t tread endlessly over old ground will post them… 😉


UPDATE, 4:15 pm

Well… this will be lovely.  Why bother to “reply” to Bush when you are in some “mean” race with him…  as if there was ever much on the ground cash for real reconstruction

WASHINGTON — The Democratic senator who will deliver his party’s formal response to President Bush’s State of the Union address Tuesday says he favors cutting off funding for Iraq reconstruction in order to pay for Hurricane Katrina recovery instead.

“How can we keep sending billions of dollars over to Iraq and not fund a really energetic effort to help places like New Orleans?” Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., asked in an interview Friday. Webb said that Iraq and what he sees as the precarious state of the nation’s economy and infrastructure are two of the topics he’ll tackle in his speech.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., chose Webb, an iconoclastic freshman, to deliver the prime-time rebuttal to the president.

Reid said Webb personifies the “spirit of bipartisanship,” and the call for “a new direction for working families and an end to the war in Iraq.”

Webb also highlights the Democrats’ effort to move beyond their traditional political base. A senator for less than a month, Webb is a combat veteran who says,

“I can still justify the war in Vietnam.” His eldest son is a Marine stationed in Iraq.  [snip]

We owe the city of New Orleans (and the Gulf Coast) rebuilding, protection and fairness.  We owe Iraq reconstruction, reparation monies and re-establishment of services.  And removal of the occupying forces.

Neither Iraq nor New Orleans will get what it needs from the US government.

Not that I expected much else from Webb.  All this is is pitting people, one against the other.  Of course Americans decry the cost of, the financial losses to foreign war.  This proposed speech from Webb is different… nasty opportunism.   So like Edwards in NO, not a word about the government, insurance companies, abuse, abandonment, every sort of usury, in every way… utter, flagrant abuse of the public faith.  Allowing people to die. Not caring to properly rebuild the levee system…  I am guessing there will be nothing from Webb about war profiteers. Certainly nothing about the horrors of an occupying army.  Don’t want to offend that bi-partisan base.

Fuck them.

Amazing how the party just works so fucking hard to be appalling.

Webb, who served as secretary of the Navy in the Reagan administration, intends to do some horn-tooting for his new party: “I think the Democratic leadership really deserves some kudos.”


UPDATE, 6:20 pm

Well, this fits in with fucked and fake “sanctity of life”…

The Atlantic has pushed their recent profile of Hillary out from behind the sub firewall.  I had used excerpts of it before, it is most horrifying in her deep alignment with Congressional evangelicals.  And with The Fellowship.

Years ago I read that when they realised they’d be making a real run for the WH and not a trial run in 92/3, she extracted a promise from Bill:  No More Bimbos.  I had to laugh.  Maybe the trade off is she thinks Jesus (and evangelicals) won’t let her down.  Whatever, it explains so much of the past few years.  She’s got her Jesus, battery included. The rest of us can sink.

You’re not supposed to think about lofty spiritual affairs in terms so temporal as their political importance. But among the prayer groups, one holds special status: a tight-knit gathering of about a dozen senators which still meets every Wednesday morning for prayer and discussion, led by Douglas Coe himself. Each week, someone starts the meeting by giving personal testimony, secure in the support of the audience. Once, Senator Dan Coats stood before the group and sang “Jesus Loves Me, This I Know.”

The roster of regular participants has included such notable conservative names as Brownback, Santorum, Nickles, Enzi, and Inhofe. Then, in 2001, just after the new class of senators was sworn in, another name was added to the list: Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Well…. I’d be gagging.  Esp with Coats singing about Jesus.

Oh by the way, there is an exhortation going on at TAPPED to refer to Hillary as Senator Clinton.

It’s about respect, not just for her stature, but for her accomplishments.

Won’t be happening here.


UPDATE, 10:01 pm… practically balmy here in San Francisco… 😉

Danny Schechter shares a few good ones from his mail, on Hillary:

Sam Smith writes:

”Let’s talk about how to bring the right end to the war in Iraq and to restore respect for America around the world. How to make us energy independent and free of foreign oil. How to end the deficits that threaten Social Security and Medicare. And let’s definitely talk about how every American can have quality affordable health care.”

Well, we actually have been talking about these things for some time; it’s just hard to get Clinton into the conversation. This is a classic piece of Clinton rhetoric. To the casual listener she is supporting an
end to the war, energy independence and universal healthcare. Far from it. She just wants us to talk about it. A neat semiotic slide, sort of like Barack Obama wanting us to come together. . . so he doesn’t have to choose between us.

Bingo on that.  They all greased themselves up for this run.  Slip sliding away...

… from Jayne Stahl:

”What she lacks is credibility. Not only did Clinton vote in favor of the war, but she watered down her pro-choice statements, so they’d be more palatable to centrist Democrats and Republicans making one wonder just how far the Senator is prepared to bend with respect to Roe v. Wade, an important question in light of the current composition of the Supreme Court, and the tenuousness of a constitutional amendment that guarantees a woman’s right to choose”.

”One would also like to hear Clinton speak out against the Military Commissions Act, the USA Patriot Act, the NSA electronic surveillance program, and challenges to a free pres instead of trying to look commander-in-chiefish’ during her Internet appearances”.

Many a chat to come.  She is sure to clear all of that up.  Pronto... 😉


Last but hardly least catch who was present via satellite at a big israeli US get together…

 Read Gideon’s good piece. The conference sounds a lot like a war party — and if not that at least a cheerleading party for the idea of militarily confronting Iran.

Johnny!  We don’t know you it seems?  Johnny?  Call us, let’s chat… I mean it, really.  Air kiss.  Two.


UPDATE, 8:20 am

hmmm.  Blue Dogs?  Bad Dogs? …?  No! They are BOLL WEEVILS!

The Blue Dogs will not speak out as a group on whether or not to call for an end to the Iraq war. “They will not draft a resolution or course regarding the troops other than one of support for our soldiers in harm’s way,” said Jon Niven, Communications Director for Rep. Mike Ross (D-AR), who co-chairs the caucus.

And that would include ‘beloved by the netteries and the Blahgs’, Patrick Murphy.  And others.  The BlueBollDogWeevils swelled from 37 to 44 with the past election.

Be Proud.




1. supervixen - 22 January 2007

yes, note that Webb wants to cut off funding for Iraq reconstruction, but says nothing about funding for the war and the troops that are there now and projected to be there in the future. It’s like stalwartly refusing to clean up after the party. The big fun militarist party.

Webb is a dumbass. And a mean one. You can see it in his beady little eyes.

2. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 January 2007

everytime I read about what Baghdad was before, I want to cry, to scream.

I’m not even going to touch that Webb thing. I’m past even working up disgust with the people running this country, and the courtiers that help maintain their mismanagement.

3. Miss Devore - 22 January 2007

goddessdammit! I’ve been working on a post about that atlantic article, and you scooped the best part.

for what it’s worth, I was calling it “One Methodist’s methods”

I was impressed with her drive to succeed, and her internal discipline with which she has even convinced herself that she is beyond normal human responses to events.

In a way her failed co-presidency is like the Iraq war.She should have been the first Clinton president, but she’s left with a Clinton “surge” at this point.

4. marisacat - 22 January 2007

oh no please Miss D, don’t let me stop you… not at all.

I really linked to it so epople would read all 11 pages (if they can stand it!). Esp the Dem orgs she has her claws into. DISGUSTING!!

I also know that I used more extensive quotes back before Xmas, about the prayer group… and I thought i took them from there. She has been itno this for a while. After “Monica” she was “counseled” by a right wing wife of a senator, who is a lay minister. But I cannot remember the name of the wife. ugh.

I mean get help where you need it, use things as a crutch ot get thru the bad times… but the RIGHT WINGEDNESS of it all combined with the Fellowship is deadly.

No please don’t let my linking to it stop you.

5. Miss Devore - 22 January 2007

Post-Monica, she was counseled by the wife of a right-wing senator…..and he was counseled by Jesse Jackson. Oh we all remember the little jpeg joke where bill is telling jesse: Use rubbers, man!

I finished the very last pages of the article today and, naturally, she completely fell apart, if you didn’t get trapped in her sticky web, in discussing how she was distinct from lieberman and bush positions on Iraq. Parsing “is” again.

I saw her initial announcing webcast on Olbermann tonight. Yes, we are going to have a good time discussing it all with you.

It’s all so very wash-your-jeans-before-you-wear-them. And no, we don’t turn the cuffs us these days.

6. Miss Devore - 22 January 2007

Post-Monica, she was counseled by the wife of a right-wing senator…..and he was counseled by Jesse Jackson. Oh we all remember the little jpeg joke where bill is telling jesse: Use rubbers, man!

I finished the very last pages of the article today and, naturally, she completely fell apart, if you didn’t get trapped in her sticky web, in discussing how she was distinct from lieberman and bush positions on Iraq. Parsing “is” again.

I saw her initial announcing webcast on Olbermann tonight. Yes, we are going to have a good time discussing it all with you.

It’s all so very wash-your-jeans-before-you-wear-them. And no, we don’t turn the cuffs us these days.

whoops. dated myself.

go baggy, Hill!

7. marisacat - 22 January 2007

well they also had Billy Graham in. I do believe he claimed some FAMILY counseling. LOL. They all grabbed a leg and pulled! And some one of the Big Positivism Gurus.

Ugh. Not my way.

8. Suburban Guerrilla » Nasty Piece of Work - 22 January 2007

[…] in some very fucked up ways, I’m going to have to agree with every word Marisacat has to say here – We owe the city of New Orleans (and the Gulf Coast) rebuilding, protection and fairness. We owe […]

9. bayprairie - 23 January 2007

there’s a diary up at Dkos, Why I Escort, thats been on the rec list most of the day (at least since I’ve been up :), written by a volunteer abortion clinic escort in kentucky.

Today on the anniversary of Roe v Wade, I encourage all pro-choice advocates to visit a local clinic simply to bear witness to the insanity, that in the 21st century, in America, women are being subjected to such barbaric conduct merely because they seek legal medical treatment. As escorts we are always outnumbered but at least our presence and words hopefully convey the message that these women are not alone.

more guys like him please. i see moiv commenting in the thread too. that’s one of my favorite texans.

10. marisacat - 23 January 2007

ooo thanks for that bay Off to read.

11. marisacat - 23 January 2007

wonderful thread so far. The photos he posted have been pulled … the bandwidth was expended. I hope he reposts them.

The comments from Jonathanonymous are amazing.

Such a shame… still good people there. hanging in.

12. supervixen - 23 January 2007

yeah, but inevitably, the same crap comes up:

It is very disturbing for me to read your diary, because I am a liberal, I believe in women’s rights, gay rights, protecting the enviroment, I’m pro-union, I go to peace marches, I guess on the issues I pretty much adhere to the progressive agenda.

But on abortion I must say I am clearly uncomfortable with it.
[…] Who can resist the smile of a newborn baby?


13. JJB - 23 January 2007

“Who can resist the smile of a newborn baby?” Well, how often do we see and hear news reports of babies being abandoned in places where they are likely to die from exposure? And what newborn baby smiles? That’s just kitschy rubbish.

I saw a number of the Pro-Life As Long As It’s In The Womb, After That, You’re On Your Own crowd in the DC Metro yesterday. Fortunately, none of them were going my way. I did get a good look at several dozen changing from one platform to another, and was struck by the fact that most of them (90% or more) were either young men or teenager boys. Most of them were from some group that dressed in identical black jackets with some identifying red logo on them, didn’t catch the name, it was only one word. The only females among them were a handful of teenage girls.

As one of my former girlfriends (Irish-American, Catholic) used to say, if men had babies, abortion would be a sacrament.

14. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 January 2007

fantastic diary and thread bay. Thanks.

15. ms_xeno - 23 January 2007

I don’t know how many patriarch wannabees can resist the smile of a newborn baby, but I do know plenty of them who can resist the wail of a baby who needs changing, meds, food and attention.

Which is why some of us vow to stay out of the motherhood racket when our own ages are still in the single digits, no matter what it takes.

16. JJB - 23 January 2007

Speaking about the Sanctity Of Life (an empty phrase whose most frequent propounders are remarkably callous people who urge policies that result in mass death), it seems those that join the military live lives that are especially sancified, according to the general consensus (brutally enforced) over at Big Orange Slop. Check out this diary entry, written by someone who may or may not be an extremely clever troll. Mind you, I find nothing wrong with the sentiments expressed in the diary entry text itself, though I do have mild suspicions as to the sincerity of the author. Anyway, assuming the diarist is sincere, who could deem this comment troll-worthy?

It is remarkable to hear alleged liberals and people who claim to be anti-war blathering endlessly about supporting the troops and making sure they have sufficient tools to do their deadly trade.

I share the opinion held by many conservatives that such a view is either confused or plainly dishonest.

The troops themselves generally understand “support” to be supportive of their mission, whatever the hell that is supposed to be.

We should recall that the troops in large numbers supported George Bush and his wars. They are not merely victims of his policy errors, but have affirmed them, as have most Americans for far too long.

A look at several of the responses to this will say everything about how this diary is being received:

So (8+ / 0-)

you’re going to make a sweeping generalization based on what a GOP senator says a soldier told him?

I honestly can’t tell if you’re a completely classless troll or the most misguided simpleton I’ve read on this blog.

Either way, you should delete this diary for it’s utter ignorance and lack of relevance.

by Daaaaave on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 08:49:27 PM EST

Classless (9+ / 0-)

and clueless troll. This jerk is no “liberal”, nor is he “anti-war,” as he would pretend. The greatest victims of an unjust and evil war are those who are thrown into its midst, whether out of their sense of “duty”, “patriotism”, or simply having enlisted at the wrong time. This shithead understands nothing, cares nothing, about soldiers. He just wants to pretend to be self-righteous, when all he really is is an asshole.

by dnta on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 08:56:49 PM EST

He’s more like a Republican plant. (7+ / 0-)

He just comes here to mock our positions rather than engage in any real debate here.

Conservatism is Dead!

by Eternal Hope on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:13:11 PM EST

I think he is paid to do this, (4+ / 0-)

hopefully to fool some to go along, and feed Malkin and the other filthy swine with things they can wave around as ‘examples’ of how the ‘liberals hate our troops’.

by shpilk on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:21:52 PM EST

I usually edit out the ratings details and signature lines when I quote these, but I left Eternal Hope’s signature line there and italicized it for it’s unintentional comic effect.

Now, you can understand the furious reaction against the diarist, deplorable though it is. But look what happens to this perfectly sensible commenter (comment and response heavily edited for reasons of space):

Unruffled (0+ / 1-)

This diary doesn’t bother me. I have long refused to get into ridiculous arguments about who does and does not support the troops, and what that means. I feel about the troops the way I feel about them; what label someone wants to slap on my feelings doesn’t change them.

Many on the left strike me as more concerned with the moral correctness of their feelings about the troops than with the troops themselves.. . . If the troops are that concerned about what other people think, they made a serious mistake when they volunteered for military service in the first place. I think it is a grave error to rely on someone else’s opinion as your moral compass on anything, but especially when it comes to a decision to volunteer to kill other human beings.

The left has always struck me as suffering from “military guilt.” They seem to protest way too much. I’m not sure why, although I can think of a number of possible reasons.. . .

by Free Spirit on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 11:33:53 PM EST

It is difficult for me to know even where (0 / 0)

to begin to respond to this comment.

I realize that this is a troll diary and I am sorry to jump in, but, as the extremely proud daughter of a Navy pilot and granddaughter of a Marine pilot (WWI) and submariner (WWI) I am simply appalled by what you said.. . . I am furious and heartbroken that the country I love and respect has sent young men and women into a disastrous occupation without proper equipment, with no plans, without proper and appropriate medical/psychological/financial assistance either when they were there or when they got home. And HOW DARE you put the word “poor” into quotation marks when discussing the horrific circumstances the vast majority of innocent Iraqi citizens now find themselves in? Just HOW DARE YOU. Do you have friends there? I DO. They have bullet holes through their front doors. Their kids cannot go to school without going through checkpoints where they become targets and have to hide under cars. THERE ARE DEAD BODIES IN THEIR STREETS THAT NO ONE CAN PICK UP FOR FEAR OF BEING SHOT. And this is the case in formerly good neighborhoods.

[a lot of screeching deleted]

by noweasels on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 02:28:27 AM EST

The only surprising thing about that exchange is that the responder was the only one to troll rate the comment, and she herself wasn’t showered with “4s” by her fellow thread thugs.

I’m sick of all the maudlin claptrap about “Our Brave Ujnivormed Men And Women Serving Us So Proudly,” blah, blah, blah. First, I think Lynndie England, Charles Graner and their loathsome ilk are a lot closer to the military norm than we dare admit. Among the more respectable elements of the military (of whom I see a great deal where I live in the DC suburbs), there are huge numbers of people living very comfortable, heavily taxpayer-subsidized lives in homes worth $350K and up to do whatever it is they do at Fort Belvoir and the Pentagon. In fact, my next-door neighbor (Air Force) lives with his wife, two kids, and two dogs in a home that would probably sell for $625-650K if it were to go on the market (they rent, owner lives elsewhere). Just as an aside, I cannot tell you how ludicrous it is to see dozens of briefcase wielding non-coms dressed in desert camouflage and combat boots every day as they commute to their jobs at the Pentagon, Crystal City, etc. The desert unis look a lot like pajamas, which only adds to the absurdity.

Anyway, I’ve come to the conclusion that if you want to serve your country, or more properly, your fellow citizens, the military is one of the least worthy methods of doing so. A competent school teacher does far more good than even the greatest soldier in their respective careers.

Anyway, to get back to BigOrangeSlop, only months after deciding that there was too much troll-rating abuse and too many unfairly hidden comments (resulting in a 5-zero per day limit), it seems that it’s been decided there aren’t enough hidden comments, and the thread thugs are on a rampage. Someone could do a very interesting psychological study along the lines of that one where some people were jailers and others prisoners for a few days, and the former turned extraordinarily abusive towards the latter.

17. marisacat - 23 January 2007

Well lately I have been using (in emails) “suicide by president”. I think the leadership of the military is appalling. You cannot agree to destroy the military twice in 40 years.

But of course the MIC is doing just fine. And I do believe in our crop of “macho Dems” we sent some tied veryclose to the MIC. Sold them as anti war, or anti war management.. or, if one read close, Anti Bush Failure War (had Kerry won all sorts of excuses would be trotted out). We can fail lighter better..

It sure was a cute op.

Further Ray McGovern and Silverstein in Harper’s Washington Babylon have made it clear, for months we are running in Iraq with no intell. the National Intel work up that is produced regularly is months overdue.

So many people have helped George. Colluded, cooperated. Just heard HilPAC on NBC… clear she does not think she should even be asked about her IWR/AUMF vote. She wants to move on.

Sorry hon. Stuck in the blood.

18. JJB - 23 January 2007

That’s sort of like demanding you be allowed to “move on” from the night you got drunk and killed 3 people in an auto collision.

19. ms_xeno - 23 January 2007

JJB: Excellent post.

What amazes me is that most careers come in for the whole range of mild ribbing to vicious ridicule. Who hasn’t heard that engineers are anal Vulcans, actors are spoiled narcissists, Gummint employees make tons of money while sleeping at their desks, lawyers are Satan’s envoys, etc. Sometimes the jokes are all in fun, and sometimes they are a gateway to rants that reveal major hostility and perhaps even legit criticism of the institutions built up around the jobholder in question. In any case, if every other occupation comes in for it, I don’t see any reason why the military should be spared.

20. Miss Devore - 23 January 2007

JJB, your old gf was quoting Florynce Kennedy.

Oh and as for myself, like senator brownback, I can never resist a smiling stem-cell. and when they start singing “Jesus loves me”…it’s too, too much.

21. JJB - 23 January 2007


Thanks. Yes, god forbid you should ever suggest that people might join the military for anything other than noble reasons. Another neighbor of mine used to be in charge of an entire flight squadron on one of the aircraft carriers now stationed in the Persian Gulf region (he retired about 6 years ago). Shortly around the time Saddam’s statue was pulled down, his wife through him a 50th birthday party. He was already full of spirits (mostly tequila) when my wife and I arrived, and he threw down a number of the largest, most potent drinks (about 60% booze) I’ve ever seen over the course of the next few hours, all the while going on about how we’d just won the greatest, fastest victory in the history of military conflict, and wasn’t that the greatest thing that ever happened. He really was nothing more than an overgrown high school jock who’d found a career that enabled him to experience his most intense adolescent thrills well into middle-age. As with, say, John McCain, I really don’t see what they ever did that was of service to their fellow citizens, nor do I believe for a moment they took the path they did for altruistic reasons.

Miss Devore,

I didn’t know old Flo was the author of that statement, and I assure you, my ex didn’t know it either. She’d never have heard of her. Those people I saw yesterday had a number of “Brownback for President” signs. Really creepy bunch.

22. supervixen - 23 January 2007

noweasels = huge supporter of Webb
Eternal Hope = dumb as a box of rocks

Looks like another episode of As the Orange Turns….

23. marisacat - 23 January 2007

Well Eternel Hope, iirc, is or appeared to be a DH minion. And trolls the sites looking for herding jobs.

All a congealing fuckball.

24. colleen - 23 January 2007

Well Eternel Hope, iirc, is or appeared to be a DH minion. And trolls the sites looking for herding jobs.

Yes. EH even defended and supported the sLouise sockpuppet’s efforts. One of Dana’s pathetic tools and a fine Christian too. kool aide subsistence dweller.

I’m noticing some fairly sophisticated HRC/DLC tools on the blogs.

25. marisacat - 23 January 2007

LOL speaking of tools. About what is around. either benefitting from the DLC (and NDN we can be sure) HRC monies… or baby trolls for Edwards Obamamamamama by churning out agaisnt anything Hillary does.

Taylor Marsh, as I posted, ws frantic over very good, but very critical, structured commentary at HuffPo about the Edwards announce in NO. But she is “on” anything Hillary does. Just churning it out. Not the only one…

Rooms stuffed full of operatives. Ka ching!! Ching !! Ching!!

26. NYCO - 23 January 2007

Amusing thread over at Big Orange…


It really is getting easier to argue with them now that the Democrats are “in control” and Hillary has thrown her hat in. whee.

27. JJB - 23 January 2007


One thing about Billary, they’re extraordinarily smart, and are amazingly quick studies. Of all the undercover campaign ops infiltrating Little Orange Footballs next year (hell, probably in just a few weeks if they aren’t already), theirs will undoubtedly be the most subtle and effective.

28. bayprairie - 23 January 2007

I’m noticing some fairly sophisticated HRC/DLC tools on the blogs.

yes and some of them have been around for longer than a year. i’m thinking of one in particular.

29. missdevore - 23 January 2007

and then there’s the Sanctity of Strife….a round of applause for aitchdee:

” I cannot believe you (2+ / 2-)

Recommended by:
Trollrated by:
Rick Oliver, Big Tent Democrat

I’ve passed by DOZENS of your nasty, bloated-ego comments in just the last week and a half alone. I’ve troll rated precisely NOTHING. I’ve held back, over and over and over AGAIN! And why? Why am I reluctant to troll rate the trolliest poster around? Because I felt bad for what you went through? I suppose! But you don’t deserve any forbearance, and I’m not going to hesitate anymore. You are chronically nasty and uncivil–you actually reserve your meanest shots for the random person who pokes his or her unassuming head into a thread to say something NICE to you. And in perfect passive-aggressive form (but ONE of your modes of aggression) you say that to troll rate you for being a dick is to violate one’s own civility code. O bullshit, you rigorous, sophistic, bilious little bully. You taunt and provoke and taunt and provoke until someone finally explodes – and then you say GOTCHA! Then you say: How DARE you react! Boy are we psychologically sophisticated around here. Why is anyone taking this? Why did I? I have no fucking idea.

And nothing ever changes. You just go on and on. You’re turning Daily Kos into a Usenet-like PIT all by yourself, Armando. Are you proud?

Calling for a measure of civility is not the same as acquiescing to dormatism, but I know you count on people conflating the two.

You still have so many fans on this site–folks who can’t witness enough of your abuse, apparently–that to cross you is tantamount to committing social suicide. There is something really screwy about that, but I don’t really give a damn anymore. I’m a breath away from abandoning daily kos altogether. It’s not fun anymore–too often I leave here feeling kinda mauled. Yes, it is absolutely clear that my leaving would be no loss to you. Who the sam hell am I to complain? This is daily kos where armando will do his nasty little armando thing – people can take him or effin’ leave.

And you’ll never stop, and evidently that’s the way of folks like it: you blowing your dyspeptic crud all over the damn place all the while hiding behind the flimsiest fig leaf of intellectual rigor. What a joke! You’re no voice of high cerebral functioning! On the contrary, in your relentless belligerence, you’ve become a portrait of intellectual insecurity.

by aitchdee on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 01:18:45 PM

Awesome. (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:

Best trollish comment EVER. I wish I could give you a donut and a recommend, despite the despicable assault.

by Rick Oliver on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 01:24:37

stand by your man n/t (0+ / 1-)

Trollrated by:
Big Tent Democrat

by aitchdee on Tue Jan 23, 2007

30. colleen - 23 January 2007


Yes, I quite agree. I just ran into one on Martin’s blog. The arguments were fairly sophisticated for a tool (far better than Dana’s puppies) but the stench is pure eau de DLC.

Had the C-Span cameras not been focused on her during part of Dean’s speech at the ’08 convention I might be tempted to vote for her in the general (although never in the primary) but her look of gloating triumph and sheer pleasure was so telling. What a loathesome woman.

31. marisacat - 23 January 2007

LOL well it was Chelsea who saw the camera and put her hand on Mum’s arm that holding a celebratory coupe de champagne for the tank that rolled over Howard.

Chelsea’s mother and father fully facilitated this war. If the wretched twins should wander Iraq in 130 lbs of “protection” so should she.

Awful peopele.

32. supervixen - 23 January 2007

Miss D: LOL, fun stuff from aitchdee. But she/he is an abusive “problem child” too, though. Joined the charge against nolalily during the Buffy fiasco, calling her an alcoholic, mentally-ill, etc. and then afterwards when the diaries were safely deleted pretended that she/he had said nothing of the sort.

DKos really seems to have attracted the human scum. I think it has to do with Armando and DH, et al. setting the tone early on.

it’s entertaining in a way to see Elise running around sucking up to Armando. She wants so badly to be in the Gang. She reminds me of “Anybodys” in West Side Story.

33. marisacat - 23 January 2007

E Howard Hunt has died. At 88.

34. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 January 2007

Richard Perle reassures the psycho right in Israel that Dubya has their nuclear back:

Perle hypothesized a nightmare scenario, saying: “In possession of nuclear weapons, or even in possession of nuclear material, Iran is perfectly capable of using its terrorist networks to enable others to inflict grievous damage.”

“At some point, those of us who believe that the current policy will not lead to an abandonment of nuclear weapons (by Iran)… have to begin to face the question of when is the point of no return,” Perle added.

Perle expressed astonishment at the lack of support granted by the West to Iranian opposition movements who wish to overthrow the regime of the Ayatollahs.

“I’m not convinced that we have a lot of time. Given the peril that would result, its astonishing to me that we do not now have a serious political strategy with Iran,” he said, adding he thought regime change is “the only significant effective way” to deal with the Iranian threat.

“If we continue on our current course, we have only a military option. So what I’m urging, and this should have happened a very long time ago, is that we make a serious effort to work with the internal (Iranian) opposition,” Perle said.

35. marisacat - 23 January 2007

why are these people still allowed commerce in the public square?

Tells you how sunk our sub is. Run aground. On the shoals. We fell off the ice floe of life and drowned.

These people should be run out of town.


I keep hoping the French will “Malkovich” him. Turn him out of his cosy South of France home.

36. ms_xeno - 23 January 2007


god forbid you should ever suggest that people might join the military for anything other than noble reasons

Funny you should mention that. A pal of mine who grew up in the heartland of conservatism (the working poor variety) said that everyone she knew who joined was quite blunt about joining so they could make some money and get out of town. At least they were blunt about it to those whom they perceived to be their own.

The flip side of the syndrome you describe are those on the Left who say that it’s unfair to pick on the troops for precisely that reason. This has led to huge brawls in some spaces I’ve been in, with a number of lower class folks saying that they’ve never had any family in the military and plan to keep it that way no matter what.

Some debates just don’t fit neatly into little boxes. :/

37. marisacat - 23 January 2007

Well The State is happy to limit choices. And make higher ed more and more expensive. Very convenient that the mil becomes a ”savior” of first and last choice.

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