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Have a triple espresso open thread… ;) 24 February 2007

Posted by marisacat in France, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Paris.

  Cafe de Flore, Paris, 1971

If I run into anything, will pop it up… Enjoy!



1. missdevore - 24 February 2007

oh, how about a little Leonard Cohen?

“A Thousand Kisses Deep”

The ponies run, the girls are young,
The odds are there to beat.
You win a while, and then it’s done –
Your little winning streak.
And summoned now to deal
With your invincible defeat,
You live your life as if it’s real,
A Thousand Kisses Deep.

I’m turning tricks, I’m getting fixed,
I’m back on Boogie Street.
You lose your grip, and then you slip
Into the Masterpiece.
And maybe I had miles to drive,
And promises to keep:
You ditch it all to stay alive,
A Thousand Kisses Deep.

And sometimes when the night is slow,
The wretched and the meek,
We gather up our hearts and go,
A Thousand Kisses Deep.

Confined to sex, we pressed against
The limits of the sea:
I saw there were no oceans left
For scavengers like me.
I made it to the forward deck.
I blessed our remnant fleet –
And then consented to be wrecked,
A Thousand Kisses Deep.

I’m turning tricks, I’m getting fixed,
I’m back on Boogie Street.
I guess they won’t exchange the gifts
That you were meant to keep.
And quiet is the thought of you,
The file on you complete,
Except what we forgot to do,
A Thousand Kisses Deep.

And sometimes when the night is slow,
The wretched and the meek,
We gather up our hearts and go,
A Thousand Kisses Deep.

The ponies run, the girls are young,
The odds are there to beat . . .

[ http://www.azlyrics.com ]

2. missdevore - 24 February 2007

Oh, and as far as David Geffen. He was the late Laura Nyro’s manager. Who’d want to bother with politician’s after that?

3. marisacat - 24 February 2007

welll according to the NYT (don’t have the link handy) ina follow up [iece, he was cosy with the Clintons til recently… donated heavily to both of her senate campaigns…(rather like Lamont, who donated to Lieberman wll after his vote for war and lot of nsty commentary) wilfred told me the print edition had a pic of Bill hugging the tiny Geffen. And Geffen wtih a look of ecstasy…

I am glad for the hoopla (feeds my inner Imus Cat!, LOL) but really, a congealing fuckball of the very wealthy.

4. missdevore - 24 February 2007

Hillary’s “in to win” She’s going to kill everyone with talking points.

5. musing graze - 24 February 2007

Greetings, all.
Here’s Leonard ruminating:


One by one, the guests arrive
The guests are coming through
The open-hearted many
The broken-hearted few

And no one knows where the night is going
And no one knows why the wine is flowing
Oh love I need you
I need you
I need you
I need you
Oh . . . I need you now

And those who dance, begin to dance
Those who weep begin
And “Welcome, welcome” cries a voice
“Let all my guests come in.”

And no one knows where the night is going …

And all go stumbling through that house
in lonely secrecy
Saying “Do reveal yourself”
or “Why has thou forsaken me?”

And no one knows where the night is going …

All at once the torches flare
The inner door flies open
One by one they enter there
In every style of passion

And no one knows where the night is going …

And here they take their sweet repast
While house and grounds dissolve
And one by one the guests are cast
Beyond the garden wall

And no one knows where the night is going …

Those who dance, begin to dance
Those who weep begin
Those who earnestly are lost
Are lost and lost again

And no one knows where the night is going …

One by the guests arrive
The guests are coming through
The broken-hearted many
The open-hearted few

And no one knows where the night is going …


P.S.: Excellent poem at Iraq War Grief Daily Witness today.

6. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007


SOME of America’s most senior military commanders are prepared to resign if the White House orders a military strike against Iran, according to highly placed defence and intelligence sources.

Tension in the Gulf region has raised fears that an attack on Iran is becoming increasingly likely before President George Bush leaves office. The Sunday Times has learnt that up to five generals and admirals are willing to resign rather than approve what they consider would be a reckless attack.

“There are four or five generals and admirals we know of who would resign if Bush ordered an attack on Iran,” a source with close ties to British intelligence said. “There is simply no stomach for it in the Pentagon, and a lot of people question whether such an attack would be effective or even possible.”

A British defence source confirmed that there were deep misgivings inside the Pentagon about a military strike. “All the generals are perfectly clear that they don’t have the military capacity to take Iran on in any meaningful fashion. Nobody wants to do it and it would be a matter of conscience for them.

“There are enough people who feel this would be an error of judgment too far for there to be resignations.”

A generals’ revolt on such a scale would be unprecedented. “American generals usually stay and fight until they get fired,” said a Pentagon source. Robert Gates, the defence secretary, has repeatedly warned against striking Iran and is believed to represent the view of his senior commanders.

The threat of a wave of resignations coincided with a warning by Vice-President Dick Cheney that all options, including military action, remained on the table. He was responding to a comment by Tony Blair that it would not “be right to take military action against Iran”.

Wonder if they’d actually have the stones to do it this time.

7. marisacat - 24 February 2007

I doubt it… look at Petreaus… did not believe in a surge a few months ago, but off to be a new raj in Mess O’Potamia.

Maybe Schoonmaker might fuss publically.

My own guess, the AF would still carry out an air campaign over selected sites in IRan. Maybe even a long campaign of flying over, bombing on certain days.

8. liberalcatnip - 24 February 2007


I’m not quite ready to give that Times story much weight since it’s based on anonymous sources. I had just written a post earlier today about minding press sources once again when it comes to Iran/US/UK/Israel propaganda. There’s no way to verify the claims in the Times story and it could just be a plant by someone who wants to send a message to Bushco.

9. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

The article put a pretty strong emphasis on General Pace being one of the dissenters.

10. liberalcatnip - 24 February 2007

Btw, these dkos militarist/pacifist wars are completely out of control. I was going to write a meta post about them but I can’t even keep up to the slough of diaries popping up. The main question in all of this is the same as it ever was though: why are they so afraid of dissent? Some of them have morphed into Bush on that front. I hope they’re proud of themselves. May they all sleep well as people continue to die in their wars.

11. liberalcatnip - 24 February 2007

The article put a pretty strong emphasis on General Pace being one of the dissenters.

Well, Pace has been a little “uppity” lately – since Rummy left – what with coming out and dissing the Baghdad briefing. It wouldn’t surprise me if he “retires to be with his family” soon.

12. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 February 2007

Thanks for the Leonard Cohen, Miss D. I hope you get your ATM and keys straightened out – I never lock anything. The doors are always open and I leave the keys in the car. This way I can’t lose them.

After reading all those links from Arcturus and Mitm on the torture policies of this country, it is just so depressing. It’s clear it is policy. And that explains why there is no outrage from our Representatives. Each day I lose a little more faith in this country.

Waving to SV – have fun!

Ms xeno, you guys are a riot – I hope those leotards will be star-spangled! Lol!

It’s true, Mcat, LV is definitely your biggest fan. He’s in love! rotfl

Another US Attorney resigns.

Michigan’s first female U.S. attorney says she is stepping down, prompting speculation that she is the latest in a wave of resignations forced by the Bush administration.

Margaret M. Chiara, 63, said Friday she would resign her position effective March 16, but did not say why. She said in a statement issued by her office that she intends to remain in public service.

Seven other U.S. attorneys have been forced to resign in recent months. Democrats have accused the Bush administration of forcing the resignations to make way for political allies.

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said Chiara’s resignation “could well be one of them. Now that this shoe has dropped, we’ll be continuing to seek better explanations than those we’ve been given.”

Michigan US Attorney Resigns

13. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 February 2007

Musing Grace #5, that is an extraordinary poem on Rub’s Daily Grief blog. And that picture – tears and sadness is all the world has had from this administration.

14. musing graze - 24 February 2007

Schoonmaker did an interview at NPR the other day. Can’t get the audio to work now, but he talked about wanting to “grow the army,” while delicately alluding to the difficulties of doing so under the current C-in-C. Pressures on “dwell time” (home leave for combat soldiers) for “reintegration” and all.

15. marisacat - 24 February 2007

the purge of the US attys… but remember! Roberts says that the low pay at the fed level for judges is the constitutional crisis…

LOL… And Olshansky and Lindorff, working for the inmates at Gitmo (and somehow it was from them that I first heard of Camp Iguana, the facility on Guantanamo for juveniles) have said that Dems know it is dicey about Habeas Corpus, but they did not want to say much publicly (as of last summer) so I don’t hold a lot of hope for the slight, weak, whispery bellows from Leahy, Shumer and the like.

Everything will get “Reid-ed” or “Pelosi’d”… Like Chalmers said, if she says impeachment is off the table, then the republic is “off the table”.

Craven power, all they care about. Any of them…

as for DD/LV. ewwwww. He is just a misbegotten mess…

16. musing graze - 24 February 2007

Sabrina – Grace is my actual middle name (and a handy straight line!) but I use the “z” online. 🙂

I agree the photo is extraordinary too.

17. marisacat - 24 February 2007

musing graze thanks for the npr link… 😉

18. musing graze - 24 February 2007

Thanks for hanging tough with blog(cough)topia, Marisacat.

19. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 February 2007

Oops, apologies, musing graze. I didn’t notice the ‘z’.

Well, the plight of the detainees in Gitmo is beyond horrible, Marisacat. I believe Congress could put an end to all of this by passing laws forbidding any kind of torture. Instead they introduce a bill saying that ‘information obtained by torture will not be admissable’. That really bothered me.

20. marisacat - 24 February 2007

all of it, it just goes on.

21. liberalcatnip - 24 February 2007

I don’t know if you all know this yet (or even care!) but the new blog Everybody Comes From Somewhere (ECFS) has moved to a new domain. Please update your bookmarks. We’re a bunch of kooky, liberal nutbars over there who are actually getting along with each other. It’s quite, dare I say it, “peaceful” and we will keep it that way because that’s the kind of crazy, loony, peace-lovin’ people we are. (Well, there at least…) 😉

22. marisacat - 25 February 2007

ooo thanks for posting that catnip, I got the email and was going to post it somewhere.. so thanks.

Will update the blogroll too.

23. musing graze - 25 February 2007
24. musing graze - 25 February 2007
25. arcturus1 - 25 February 2007

my wife reminded today of this story about doj & lindh which my addled memory had totally forgotten:


Radack had been working full time in the ethics unit for 10 months when, in December 2001, she received an email from John De Pue, a lawyer in the terrorism unit, asking if it would be appropriate for an FBI agent to interview Walker Lindh in Afghanistan without a lawyer, even though his father had hired one for him. After consulting with a senior ethics staffer, she emailed him no, but a few days later, De Pue informed her that the agent had done it anyway. Radack responded that the interview “may have to be sealed or only used for national security purposes.” “Ugh,” De Pue retorted.

26. marisacat - 25 February 2007

ooo right! I had forgotten about Radack.. thanks for the reminder…

27. musing graze - 25 February 2007

SB – No apology necessary, but thanks. Reckon I’m just feeling the need to clarify matters of identity, lately.

FYI arcturus amd MC:
Radack at DKos.

28. marisacat - 25 February 2007

what an interesting sub thread. yes I see that poor macdust mistook the name “Musing 85” for “musing graze”.


musing85 was part of the Catholic cabal and certainly a minion of DHinMI’s.

What a bunch!

29. musing graze - 25 February 2007

Nothing a href=”http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2007/2/1/202934/9065/200#c200″>poor about macdust. (Check parent comment for full effect.)

30. musing graze - 25 February 2007

Shit. Link intended, tagged “poor.”

31. Ezekiel - 25 February 2007

Kevin Lynch’s chiding ignores both the fun aspect of this site and the way that BBB maneuvers might say something about more important forces in the body politic.

Having read Peeder’s critique of dKos and its proprietor, these latest moves seem contrary to the purpose of building readership and ad revenue. As anger and frustration explode when the Dems prove unable/unwilling to head off another war and economic disaster, who will come and read Dem puff pieces from Kos & Co.?

The Party must be willing to more than make up the difference in order to use dKos to stifle and misdirect dissent. Or Kos’s longing to be part of the in crowd is blinding his vaunted business vision.

32. arcturus1 - 25 February 2007

t/y mg -it was indeed “Targeting Lawyers” that had me drawing blanks on her name

33. D. Throat - 25 February 2007

This is why this blog is has value… because so much writing on DKos doesn’t:

My friend, the socialist

by Bob Johnson
Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 03:32:13 PM PST

Mt friend was an excellent pastry chef. He worked at a very high end restaurant as the head pastry chef until he finally decided to quit and open his own little bakery.

He was a leftist — a socialist, really. So he hired these other young socialists to work in his bakery. Younger than my friend. He paid them well over the minimum wage (almost triple). But he did not offer healthcare. He didn’t have the money.

After a couple of years, the workers told him they wanted to unionize. He told them, “If you do that, I’ll probably have to close the shop. My margins just won’t support the costs involved.”

They went to the union and the union guy asked them what they were being paid and when they told him, he said, “Are you sure you want to unionize? This is a single, small shop.”

They said yes, so he had to represent them.

In the first negotiation, my friend told the union guy, “I’d have to close if they do this.” And the union guy said, “Yes, I told them.”

The workers insisted on moving forward, so one day, my friend came in to the bakery, handed the keys to his employees and said, “Here. It’s yours.”

They started shouting, “We don’t want to run the bakery!”

But that was it.

The bakery closed.

A few years later, he opened a restaurant. A very simple place that serves really good food for very reasonable prices. (He is a socialist, after all.)

Yes, he is still a socialist. But he doesn’t hire socialists anymore. (Though he still pays very well.)

This reads if it came straight from the website of Focus on Families or some other nonsense right wing rag… sad and pathetic. Not one varifiable fact in this whole right wing slop. This shit doesn’t even make sense legally as many pointed out in the thread also I thought Bob’s family were union people…he should know the facts and the law… instead of dragging out old GOP anti union memes.

Gee kids what is the moral of this story… that’s right dont’ hire Socialist (or Purists or Unionists as a matter of fact)…

Considering that Kos is directly connected to the Dem powers that be… this new purge of “Pacifist”… is coming from DC… I guess they are prepping the ground for the “Long War”.

34. Miss Devore - 25 February 2007

musing graze-longtime!

35. Sabrina Ballerina - 25 February 2007

musing graze, thanks for the link. Why don’t they just STOP! I mean, they have pretty much been exposed over the past six months and all they are doing now is proving what once was only suspected. Musings85 trying to excuse an outing by dhinmi while condemning McDust for simply posting evidence to prove there was no outing of DD? It demonstrates some kind of illness of the mind, which would make the behavior excusable, or else they outright lie.

Q: ‘When is an outing not an outing?’
A: ‘When DhinMi does it!’

Kevin Lynch asks why focus on the blogs instead of using the energy on more worthwhile efforts? Well, first of all we can do both. And to assume people are not doing anything worthwhile unless they yell about it on DK (Carnaki’s ridiculous assertion) is just funny, really! I mean, is making phone calls really ‘heavy lifting’? Or would, say, volunteering ones services as an attorney to the cause of restoring Habeas Corpus be considered ‘heavy lifting’? I would say the latter is certainly at least equal to making calls, but maybe it’s something that can or should not be talked about publicly on a blog.

Which is why Carnaki’s ridiculous diary made no sense. He has no idea what people are doing, including Opol and basically made false accusations against thousands of people without any evidence at all and was applauded for his faulty reasoning in the so-called ‘fact-based’ community’, The hypocrisy of the site was again evident in that Carnaki received not a single call-out to provide evidence of his assertions, from the very same people who insist that ‘back-up and proof’ is necessary in a ‘reality-based community’.

People should beware of organizations that have a specific ‘lingo’. First thing I noticed about rightwing boards was the repeated jingo-ism/propaganda in the form of talking points. At first it puzzled me that so many people were saying the same things, ie, ‘cheese-eating surrender-monkey’ – (now, apparently adapted by ‘kossacks’). Those not on the right spoke from the heart and from logic with no need for talking points.

On DK, I noticed it also. The use of labels such as ‘purity troll’ eg. The cliches repeated continually such as ‘we live in the reality-based community’ etc. This should set off alarm bells and did for me after I saw so many repeat the jingoistic phrases like sheep. It is cult-like behavior. Facts do not require talking points. The jingoism there is creepy.

The mainstream media should have been exposed a long time ago. Had it been, people would not have been led so easily into this war. I hope the exposure of compromised online media will happen far more quickly. A ‘mediamatters’ type org. would be good to watch out for blogs that are mis-representing themselves. I regret the time I wasted on blogs that were not what they claimed to be.

As for Hunter’s cry-baby act. This, all because Jerome criticized him? The same Hunter who lectures that if you write on dk, you damn well better be able to take criticism! Lol! (well, if you’re Opol, that is)

It’s embarrassing really, that these thin-skinned, cry-babies have set themselves up as representatives of Progressives. Especially at a time when it’s so important to counter the rightwing-created image of the left as ‘wimps’. The behavior of a/btd, Hunter, DD et al, crying drama-queens all, pouting and threatening to quit (but never doing it) attention-seeking wimps is embarrassing. It’s very important that they be rejected as any kind of representatives of progressives.

Certainly they do NOT represent the left and that needs to be made very clear, imo. And maybe that’s a good place to begin. By writing letters to media outlets where they have been characterized as ‘liberal blogs’ or ‘leaders of the progressive movement’ to let it be known they most certainly are none of those things, but are in fact, businesses.

There are enough people now to sign onto something like that, enough reputable bloggers and writers who have been banned by DK etc. They themselves have created a growing movement outside of their restrictive, authoritarian ‘big tent’. It never pays to bully and mistreat people. Especially the kind of people who will not stand for it.

36. Sabrina Ballerina - 25 February 2007

Lol, D. Throat, that sounds like one of those ‘urban legends’ my rightwing friends send me through email! Did anyone ask him for names, dates, places? If he cannot provide any of that, it is a fairy-tale. The make stuff up there, just like the rightwing when they cannot argue against facts.

Propagandists is what they are. Not even worth responding to, really.

37. marisacat - 25 February 2007

Reuters via Truthout… sounds like Hersh will be in the coming New Yorker:

US Developing Contingency Plan to Bomb Iran: Report


Saturday 24 February 2007

New York – Despite the Bush administration’s insistence it has no plans to go to war with Iran, a Pentagon panel has been created to plan a bombing attack that could be implemented within 24 hours of getting the go-ahead from President George W. Bush, The New Yorker magazine reported in its latest issue.

The special planning group was established within the office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in recent months, according to an unidentified former U.S. intelligence official cited in the article by investigative reporter Seymour Hersh in the March 4 issue.

The panel initially focused on destroying Iran’s nuclear facilities and on regime change but has more recently been directed to identify targets in Iran that may be involved in supplying or aiding militants in Iraq, according to an Air Force adviser and a Pentagon consultant, who were not identified. [snip]

38. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 February 2007

Speaking of Gitmo & “coercive techniques” (oh, gotta love me some Orwellian locutions!), the the Navy has worked out how to destroy you in the brig … Padilla was just a practice run, I guess:

Officials at the Navy’s brig in Hanahan developed elaborate plans to dodge public scrutiny of its operations to detain enemy combatants, plans that include destroying “critical info,” scrubbing public Web sites, and warning brig staff about the temptations of “high priced offers from news agencies,” a Navy report shows.

The 17-page document also describes how, with relatively short notice, the Naval Consolidated Brig created an expensive prison-within-a-prison, in part to prevent regular inmates from retaliating against the detainees. In this separate facility, a brig official said detainees are accorded protections under the U.S. Constitution, “except where curtailed by higher guidance.” […]

“Emotional responses by the prisoner population to the events of September 11th made it clear that criminals can be patriots, too,” his report said. “We concluded that it was likely, given the opportunity, an inmate might attempt to harm an enemy combatant out of patriotic sentiment.” Brig officials paid close attention to such “crossover” contact, making sure, for instance, that staff, instead of regular inmates, prepare and serve detainees’ meals.

See, psychological torture is done FOR THEIR OWN GOOD! Of course, this isn’t all that different from our regular prisons, where solitary confinement is used to “protect” defenseless inmates on violent prison wards.

The report said brig officials scrubbed public access documents and Web sites and destroyed “critical info,” including information about rosters and internal operations. “Staff training to counter media probes paid dividends on several occasions,” Seymour said without further explanation.

The presentation eventually took on the tone of a primer for corrections colleagues on how to dodge reporters and prepare their institutions for enemy combatant missions.

“Defeat surprise queries by preparing standard answers and keep them near common phone access points and available to all staff … Focus on where the vulnerabilities are for camera footage by interested parties and look for unconventional access to your operation.” Doing so will “starve the query.”

ugh …

onathan Hafetz, an attorney for the lone detainee in the facility, Ali Saleh al-Marri, said the document shows how the Bush administration is trying to build a separate detention system unbound by the Constitution. “They’re saying, ‘We’ll follow the Constitution, unless the president tells us not to.’ That’s very significant.”

Jacob Hornberger, president of The Future of Freedom, a libertarian think tank near Washington, D.C., added that “the brig officer has it all wrong. The rights enumerated in the Constitution are not privileges bestowed by federal officials subject to discretionary curtailment. Instead, they are inherent, fundamental rights and guarantees that the Constitution expressly prohibits federal officials, including those in the military, from infringing.”

Plexico said the term “higher guidance” refers to “guidance higher in the military chain of command than the brig and alludes to rights” that are commonly restricted in detention facilities to ensure order. He added that “even active duty military members in good standing do not have the full benefit of the Constitution, i.e., the First Amendment.”

39. ms_xeno - 25 February 2007

catnip: (#10)

…these dkos militarist/pacifist wars are completely out of control…

So there’s no one to raise a hand for “militarism” of the type IOZ and the like advocate. A standing army exists to defend a nation’s own borders from invaders. That’s it. No imperial crusades abroad. Self-defense takes place on one’s own turf. Period.

No, if you don’t wanna’ bomb, rape, and shoot everything and everyone everywhere Bush and Bush, Jr. (Reid) sez, your only other option is pacifism. What the fuck ever…

40. ms_xeno - 25 February 2007

D. Throat: (#33)

Well, then, I hope Bobbin’ Dick’s little fable ends all the fury at Nader that’s supposedly about him forbidding any Unionization of the PIRGs. Hey, if it’s okay for Mr. Pastry Chef to avoid organized labor to keep the business going at a profit which pleases him, I think it must be okay for Nader to do the same.

There was a parallel story here at a joint called Calendula Cafe. Except the employees claimed that they wanted to organize because their one-time Anarcho-Veggie boss started acting too much like a traditional boss. They felt they were being screwed, overworked, and not getting a share of the spoils toward which they had worked. But in Dicksville, I guess the Socialist rabble have no real complaints about anything, and just roam from business to business, selfishly shutting ’em down Just Because.

Go fuck yourself, Bobbin’ Dickhead.

41. Sabrina Ballerina - 25 February 2007

It’s hard to know what the point of that story was, ms xeno. He doesn’t seem to be able to articulate his reason for posting it. But since he said that the ‘socialists wanted more rights, but when the boss offered them the business they didn’t want the responsibility’, I think he had Opol and his ‘evil, socialist followers’ in mind. He’s pretty obsessed with Opol.

You know, they’re ‘dirty, leftist, socialist hippies who yell and scream about rights, but as Carnacki so cleverly pointed out, they are completely useless and do nothing worthwhile and want no responsibility at all, just like his friend’s employees’ (snark of course, although actually what he and other ‘kossacks’ believe.) That’s how I read it.

42. marisacat - 25 February 2007

Poor Bob. Best friend is the Thug Class and his dog Rex. Best get a back up dog now to learn the ropes from Rex. Dogs have a propensity for dying and leaving you high and dry for sefless love.

I remember when Bob was, or appeared to be, sane.

43. ms_xeno - 25 February 2007

Oh, S.B., judging by the dirty little games played in my home state and elsewhere when it’s time to count those tricky little petition signatures and such, I think I know who doesn’t want the stragglers to have any responsibility. But it ain’t the Socialists, or Greens, or other assorted EEEVIL people.

A Helpful Flashback from Dan Meek.

Just in case Swinging Bobdick drops in. May he choke on his morning glass of Pink Bismuth and ruin his best hairshirt.

Oh, and is it just me, or is this snippet too, too perfect for words:

…Did the partisans of either the Dems or the GOP ever get the message that the Cold War ended, and that there are plenty of others on this planet who don’t wish a repeat performance? Never mind, we already know the answer to that one, eh? After all, what can we expect when our country is saddled with two right-wing parties? At least we can console ourselves with the notion that the next genocidal war perpetrated by a Democratic-controlled White House and Congress will be much more “humanitarian.” There’ll be smiley faces on the depleted uranium bombs, and new age music blaring from the loudspeakers during military parades. — James Benjamin at Left End

Well, if it’s not perfect, I blame catnip. She led me to it. :p

44. ms_xeno - 25 February 2007

Sorry. LINK.

45. Miss Devore - 25 February 2007

US is bombing southeast Baghdad. (Juan Cole)

46. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 February 2007

good on James … well typed!

Bombing cities that we supposedly “control” … our love of death from above is one of the most horrifying aspects of criminal imperial wars. It was telling in the TImes story I linked above that the Air Force is all-but enthusiastically behind bombing Iran. Ever since Curtis Lemay those fuckers have been increasingly monstrous. It’s no coincidence that the fundi dominionists have gone most agressively after the Air Force Acadamy in their prosteletizing.

47. ms_xeno - 25 February 2007

But– but, Madman, that’s why Gore/Kerry/Whoever would have been Better Than Bush. Bombing is so much better than ground troops, because aerial bombing means no messy AMERICAN deaths !! Well, almost none.

48. marisacat - 25 February 2007

“bombing” is/was just the Clinton/NATO plan for Kosovo. Ntohing else. 10, 12 years we are still htere. Will be there forever.

49. aemd - 25 February 2007

“I guess they are prepping the ground for the ‘Long War’.”

Since that they are an online mouthpiece/testbed for the Democratic Party, I thought the same thing. It is very, very worrisome.

50. ms_xeno - 25 February 2007

But Mcat ! That’s different. Halliburton wasn’t involved in Kosovo and– oops.

2001 *Guardian* excerpt on the subject, via those icky, icky Commies.

I will always fondly remember the overwhelming sound of crickets that greeted this news when I posted it on Alas a few years ago, including silence from a Euro poster who insisted on the Yugoslavia carnage as an example of how a good selfless humanitarian liberal war is run. Not that I knew any better when it was actually happening, but you know what they say about a little knowledge…

51. New Fake Name - 25 February 2007

Musing graze (#30): Great job there of standing up to DHinMi and M-85, two of Moulitsas’ most “blessed” warrriors/pet trolls. I noticed that the now banned thistime also called them on their BS and hypocrisy in that thread. (PS: everything I recall reading from Macdust suggests he/she is a decent and sincere poster).

D.T. (#33) Re: BJ’s timely lefty/socialist/purist-Bashing diary response to OPOLs “lefty/socialist/purist” antiwar diary earlier iin the day.

In the same vein as the case of the Luscious Vagina anti-[OPOL]purity rapid-response diary LV 15:12 PST posted yesterday, here is an even more clearcut example suggesting dishonest ghost-writing and multiple helpers posting under the same KosKidz Warrior username

BJ’s Anti-leftie-purist themed diary was posted at 14:32 pst. in response to OPOL’s diary which was posted at 8:31 pst. BJ’s comment history shows that BJ started house-trolling OPOL at at 9:08 pst, and pooped out a phenomenal ~29 attack comments in both OPOL’s and Jerome aP’s antiwar diaries [not to mention an uncounted number of kos warrior upratings] between 9:08-15:09.

And then BJ’s “My friend, the socialist” diary popped out of the Kos Chocolate Factory at 13:32?

Is this possible/likely for one real person to do alone and in thematic coordination with other Kos thought-molders/warpers (like LV), without a swarm of secretarial helpers and posting-bots?

52. New Fake Name - 25 February 2007

correction: BJ’s diary was posted at 15:32 pst.

53. marisacat - 25 February 2007

Just caught Sy Hersh on with wolf/CNN. About 20 mins, just Hersh. Will put up the transcript as soon as CNN posts it…

54. Tuston - 25 February 2007

“If the United States continues to be bogged down in a protracted bloody involvement in Iraq, the final destination on this downhill track is likely to be a head-on conflict with Iran and with much of the world of Islam at large. A plausible scenario for a military collision with Iran involves Iraqi failure to meet the benchmarks; followed by accusations of Iranian responsibility for the failure; then by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the U.S. blamed on Iran; culminating in a ‘defensive’ U.S. military action against Iran that plunges a lonely America into a spreading and deepening quagmire eventually ranging across Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.”

Zbigniew Brzezinski warning: .pdf link

I’m sorry if I’m repeating myself from a few days past with this post, but when the genius behind the mujahedeen warns about blowback (or a psy-op for the domestic audience) triggering wider war I pay attention and have to wonder why he would lay down such a unambiguous marker.

I find it doubly interesting that the so-called Democratic leaders like Levin are talking about benchmarks again and over in the house Murtha seems to have lost out on the “readiness restrictions.”

I think no one sane doubts that Bushco is burning with desire for the Long War and the chickenhawk vichy dumbocrats seem to be creating a great smokescreen. As if that were not disturbing enough, in the shadows of the frightening flames we can see that some of the war profiteers long-time enablers, like Brzezinski, are trying to dump water on the fire.

…there’s a dragon with matches, that’s loose on the town
gonna take a whole pail of water, just to cool him down…

55. marisacat - 25 February 2007

Via TO

Critics: Army Holding Down Disability Ratings

By Kelly Kennedy
Army Times

Saturday 24 February 2007

The Army is deliberately shortchanging troops on their disability retirement ratings to hold down costs, according to veterans’ advocates, lawyers and services members, and the Inspector General has identified 87 problems in the system that need fixing.

“These people are being systematically underrated,” said Ron Smith, deputy general counsel for Disabled American Veterans. “It’s a bureaucratic game to preserve the budget, and it’s having an adverse affect on service members.”

The numbers of people approved for permanent or temporary disability retirement in the Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force have stayed relatively stable since 2001.

But in the Army – in the midst of a war – the number of soldiers approved for permanent disability retirement has plunged by more than two-thirds, from 642 in 2001 to 209 in 2005, according to a Government Accountability Office report last year. That decline has come even as the war in Iraq has intensified and the total number of soldiers wounded or injured there has soared above 15,000. [snip]

56. marisacat - 25 February 2007

Actually… I think that 15 k figure is way way too conservative. I have read in the past as high as 25K (and everyone has to guess, so muhc is classified) as injured.

Just a bloodbath.

De la Vega is on Cspan 1 with Garrison Keillor from a meeting/book conversation at Swedenborgian Church in St Paul MN.

57. New Fake Name - 25 February 2007

Re: Dangers of US/Israel ratcheting up the ‘Bomb Iran’ head-fake/psyops provokganda

Interesting and novel Essay w/lots of history background, from a Saudi/British POV:

Iran ponders aims of Saudi mediation as US ratchets up ‘psy-ops’ against Tehran

58. D. Throat - 25 February 2007

Why Martin Luther King would be banned from Daily Kos:

“When Peace Becomes Obnoxious”

Preaching from Dexter’s pulpit the morning before facing trial, King condemns the false, “obnoxious” peace that was restored to the University of Alabama campus after it barred Autherine Lucy from attending classes. Quoting Jesus–“I come not to bring peace but a sword”–King insists that peace “is not merely the absence of some negative force–war, tension, confusion, but it is the presence of some positive force–justice, goodwill, the power of the kingdom of God.”

However, this is a type of war that every Christian is involved in. It is a spiritual war. It is a war of ideas. Every true Christian is a fighting pacifist.

In a very profound passage which has been often misunderstood, Jesus utters this: He says, “Think not that I am come to bring peace. I come not to bring peace but a sword.” Certainly, He is not saying that he comes not to bring peace in the higher sense. What He is saying is: “I come not to bring this peace of escapism, this peace that fails to confront the real issues of life, the peace that makes for stagnant complacency.” Then He says, “I come to bring a sword” not a physical sword. Whenever I come, a conflict is precipitated between the old and the new, between justice and injustice, between the forces of light and the forces of darkness. I come to declare war over injustice. I come to declare war on evil. Peace is not merely the absence of some negative force–war, tension, confusion, but it is the presence of some positive force–justice, goodwill, the power of the kingdom of God.

I had a long talk with a man the other day about this bus situation. He discussed the peace being destroyed in the community, the destroying of good race relations. I agree that it is more tension now. But peace is not merely the absence of this tension, but the presence of justice. And even if we didn’t have this tension, we still wouldn’t have positive peace. Yes, it is true that if the Negro accepts his place, accepts exploitation and injustice, there will be peace. But it would be a peace boiled down to stagnant complacency, deadening passivity, and if peace means this, I don’t want peace.

1) If peace means accepting second-class citizenship, I don’t want it.

2) If peace means keeping my mouth shut in the midst of injustice and evil, I don’t want it.

3) If peace means being complacently adjusted to a deadening status quo, I don’t want peace.

4) If peace means a willingness to be exploited economically, dominated politically, humiliated and segregated, I don’t want peace. So in a passive, non-violent manner, we must revolt against this peace.

Jesus says in substance, I will not be content until justice, goodwill, brotherhood, love, yes, the Kingdom of God are established upon the earth. This is real peace–a peace embodied with the presence of positive good. The inner peace that comes as a result of doing God’s will.


59. marisacat - 25 February 2007

Christ… well they ban almsot any THINKER.

If you are not a rote, rank and file, “Fish and Wildlife”, ‘on the party dole’ type, you get fingered early and then targetted.

Frankly a pretty accurate face of the party. just a gang.

60. ms_xeno - 25 February 2007

I’m sorry, but I must request that this “King” character be banned. For you see, as an Atheist Lefty Somethingorother, I cannot TOLERATE religion.

Willis (or whatever his name is) said so. It must be true. 😉

61. D. Throat - 25 February 2007

Wallis is just another fundie shit hijacking the religious debate away from freedom and justice to religious pandering with this “Seckulur” bullshit.

62. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 February 2007

oh, fuck Willis. I embrace believers who use their faith to inspire THEMSELVES, believers who often fight those weaker “believers” who use their faith as a club to control others. American so-called Christians almost NEVER quote their supposed savior, relying almost entirely on that nutjob former Manichean priest who fell of his damned horse and crazed Old Testament profits. Willis is one of those second sort, a Pharisee, a hater of women.

63. New Fake Name - 25 February 2007
64. New Fake Name - 25 February 2007
65. D. Throat - 25 February 2007

When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative.

Martin Luther King Jr.

66. arcturus1 - 25 February 2007

take a look at the fortress, err embassy they built – leaving Kosovo was never ‘on the table’

67. marisacat - 25 February 2007

New Thread: Sy Hersh is up in The New Yorker

The transcript of his appearance on Late Edition with Wolf is not up. Will post to the next thread as soon as it is up.

Ooops link should be fixed! Sorry!

68. New Fake Name - 25 February 2007

Arcturus 1: I have a hard time understanding that the Kosovo/Yugo fighting was done for much beyond humanitarian reasons.

What is the geostrategic/resource value in US “occupying” Kosovo?

69. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 February 2007


More room and political backing for this.

70. arcturus1 - 25 February 2007

transit lines for caspian oil wd be kinda high on the list, i.e. control of the trans-blakan pipeline- & the break-up of Y into mini statelets was clearly part of the master plan – as to “humanitarian intervention,’ i don’t recall where at the moment (Fisk is pro’lly one), but believe it’s been documented that most of the ethnic cleansing took place AFTER teh bombs started to drop – that’s the 1 cuppa minicliffnotes version

check out Ammiel Alaclay’s writings – his parents were from Yugoslavia, of Jweish-Muslim ethnicity – his translations were some of teh first from that war-torn region

Peter dale scott as well

71. arcturus1 - 25 February 2007

dammit, dyslexic typing fingers:

Ammiel Alcalay

(pretty sure alexander cockburn wrote about it as well

72. marisacat - 25 February 2007

oh we allowed, we assisted the former Yugoslavia to disintegrate. hedges is very careful in his owording in War is a force, but it you understand how we work… we were a major player. Early, appropriate mediation and diplomacy might have helped. Not years of letting it go wild. hedges writes that it took almost 5 years of hard owrk to break it down, however much it pleases the West to say the various peoples could not get along. They had lived in forms of harmony (not unlike the much intermarried Iraqis) for a long time. They did not destabilise just because Tito died…

Also I am unsrue if I can find links online, but there was a US policy/planning model (solidi/isfied in the early 90s) to “ring the heart of Europe” meaning Old Europe. Being based in the divided )defeated) former Yugoslavia was a part of that.

Look at the map of who supported us in IRaq. They ring the heart of Old Europe.

The UK, Denmark, Poland, Spain, Italy. In a sense isolating Germany and France.

There is also this from the new Hersh… another model for breakdown, ringing Israel with broken defeated nations:

Nasrallah said he believed that President Bush’s goal was “the drawing of a new map for the region. They want the partition of Iraq. Iraq is not on the edge of a civil war—there is a civil war. There is ethnic and sectarian cleansing. The daily killing and displacement which is taking place in Iraq aims at achieving three Iraqi parts, which will be sectarian and ethnically pure as a prelude to the partition of Iraq. Within one or two years at the most, there will be total Sunni areas, total Shiite areas, and total Kurdish areas. Even in Baghdad, there is a fear that it might be divided into two areas, one Sunni and one Shiite.”

He went on, “I can say that President Bush is lying when he says he does not want Iraq to be partitioned. All the facts occurring now on the ground make you swear he is dragging Iraq to partition. And a day will come when he will say, ‘I cannot do anything, since the Iraqis want the partition of their country and I honor the wishes of the people of Iraq.’ ”

Nasrallah said he believed that America also wanted to bring about the partition of Lebanon and of Syria. In Syria, he said, the result would be to push the country “into chaos and internal battles like in Iraq.” In Lebanon, “There will be a Sunni state, an Alawi state, a Christian state, and a Druze state.” But, he said, “I do not know if there will be a Shiite state.” Nasrallah told me that he suspected that one aim of the Israeli bombing of Lebanon last summer was “the destruction of Shiite areas and the displacement of Shiites from Lebanon. The idea was to have the Shiites of Lebanon and Syria flee to southern Iraq,” which is dominated by Shiites. “I am not sure, but I smell this,” he told me.

Partition would leave Israel surrounded by “small tranquil states,” he said. “I can assure you that the Saudi kingdom will also be divided, and the issue will reach to North African states. There will be small ethnic and confessional states,” he said. “In other words, Israel will be the most important and the strongest state in a region that has been partitioned into ethnic and confessional states that are in agreement with each other. This is the new Middle East.”

Tho ringing France and Germany with our “allies” was for a different reason.

73. arcturus1 - 25 February 2007

pssst .. hersh link isn’t working

74. New Fake Name - 25 February 2007

I might accept that US’s ‘humanitarian’ reasons at the time we bombed Yugo to save mostly muslim Kosovites and Bosnians from the Serbs could have been misguided, but recalling the post-Soviet collapse environment and Clinton’s frowning attitude toward the star wars 2 missile defense boondoggle program, I don’t think Clinton’s admin were thinking of the Yugo bombing as step toward putting missile/military bases there (we already had them turkey, Italy, Israel, jordan and probably a few other places more strategically relevant than )

Secondly, looking at a globe with Kosovo/Yugo just a stone-skip across Adriatic from boot heel of Italy, it seems a terribly long and circuituous pathway for an oil-gas pipeline from the Caspian Sea to follow. And a much more expensive way for shipping Caspian oil than just tankering it out thru the Black sea.

Now maybe you are right that Bushco has such machinations for the Kosovo-Yugo area NOW. But I don’t recall seeing much evidence to support the position that this was a major motivation for Clinton getting US miltitarily involved there in the first place.

75. marisacat - 25 February 2007

thanks arcturus… fixed it above and here it is again:

Sy Hersh is UP in The New Yorker

76. marisacat - 25 February 2007

Well Bushco is rabid. But much of what he has done is merely extension of planning. And to go from destabilising the Fomer Y to maybe 15 years later inducting it into the “Us bases” as our means of controlling the global empire, well that is not much.

After all it was Clinton and the whole 98 cycle that put regime change on the map. The bombing of Basra at that same cycle was very intnse. Congress, r and d alike, were slobbing for what Zinni called the Gucci/London/Iraqi expats.

Dana Priest in Mission has said that during that period Clinton basically had a gag rule on Zinni with regard to the congress. he was a tad too honest.

Let’s nto forget that bitch (ugh we are strangling from those people) Hillary.. and her smug, What I know From When I was a pillow away from the King bullscheisse.

I mean how dare she.

And all of Bill’s soft slobber int he UK press for war, for his “friend” Blair.

77. arcturus1 - 25 February 2007

since his is likely an unfamiliar name to many, here, Ammiel A, w/ yet another take to consider:

I would begin from a very different premise than is usually invoked. At the risk of lapsing into a reliance on the very essences that I have spent so much energy fighting against, I would say that the creation of the independent state of Bosnia-Hercegovina as a multiethnic, multinational, secular democratic country with a clearly Muslim president, in the person of the former political prisoner Alijia Izetbegovic, presented a grave thereat – absurd as this may sound – to Western Europe, Russia, and many Arab states. This is whay the media has consistently turned the Bosnians into Muslims, why the army of Bosnia-Hercegovina is referred to as the Muslim-led army while nowhere do we hear of the Milosevic regime as a Christian fundamentalist regime or the army of Karadzic as a Christian led army. Such concerns may seem to be out of place when the issue is fascism but fascism and purity go hand in hand and I am convinced that while the French are prepared to award the Prix Goncourt to a Morroccan writer like Tahar Ben Jelloun, they are clearly unprepared to allow Tahar Ben Jelloun’s daughter or son to become the prime minister of France. Although the English may be prepared to protect Salman Rushdie, they are also quite unprepared to allow the son or daughter of a Jamaican or Pakistani immigrant to rule their country. . . .

Although friends in the Middle East find much of this self-evident, I have never encountered anyone here [in the US] who speaks of such issues.

1995 (from “All the time in the world . . .” in memories of our future (City Lights, 1999)

well, you have to go looking for it, NFN, cuz it ain’t much in the corpporate media & the left wing of the Washington Consensus (our beloved ‘liberal progressives’) were way to in love with the mission to be honest about it. but the facts are available for those who care to look at it.

of course mr chomsky has written on the subject, quite eloquently & persuasively to this fool’s ears

78. New Fake Name - 25 February 2007

Yep. Bill Clinton was far from perfect, but he is a damn-sight better than what we have had for the past 6.5 years,

I have to think that if someone like him had stayed as president instead of it being stolen by GWB, a lot of the messes we now are in would not have been allowed to happen, or fester to the point they are now.

79. marisacat - 25 February 2007

we would have carpet bombed Iraq. LEss ground forces. More like bombing Basra in 98.

Why did she vote for it? She did she REFUSES now to renounce that vote. They believed in the war, supported the war… and they carefully hid Bill’s soft slop for the war in The Guardian and in the Times.

80. Madman in the Marketplace - 25 February 2007

they just would have been different messes, but messes none the less. The starving of Iraq would have continued, and I’m fairly convinced that the sabre-rattling toward Iran would have been much the same. The only real difference w/ Clinton would have been a more even-handed attitude on the Palestinian slow genocide, and perhaps a willingness to work w/ Syria. Hard to say, though … CACI and Halliburton and all the rest really need & want their wars.

81. marisacat - 25 February 2007

I have to think that if someone like him had stayed as president instead of it being stolen by GWB, a lot of the messes we now are in would not have been allowed to happen, or fester to the point they are now.

But then there should be NO trouble voting for her. In fact she would be the best, the most reliable, the most known of the candidates. And Bill will be there every step of the way, already is…

82. arcturus1 - 25 February 2007

& that speculation has what to do w/ Bosnia, NFN?

83. ms_xeno - 25 February 2007

I think it’s time to re-examine the true meaning of “better,” NFN. We are better because we killed other countries’ citizens for the most venal of reasons. (All that “humanitarian” shit was a smokescreen of the most obvious kind. Or haven’t you noticed our lack of “humanitarian” intervention in countries such as Tibet or Haiti.) It was “better” because Americans didn’t die.

Call me crazy, a “purist,” whatvever. But we’re supposed to be citizens of the world and not knee-jerk patriots in the FOX mold. Therefore it’s time for us to consider that citizens elsewhere have the right to be free from imperialist terror just as we do. Otherwise, frankly, all these little games about which moneygrubbing, hypocritical shitheel in the White House is “better,” doesn’t mean a damn thing.

And frankly, when you look at what these “humanitarian” missions cost our own impoverished citizens and infrastructure, even the notion that they don’t threaten and kill Americans on the ground swiftly goes by the wayside.

If that scumbag Clinton I had poured the money that he used to bomb the former Yugoslavs into the levies of NOLA, where do you think all those dispersed, dead, and robbed U.S. citizens of that city would be today ?

84. Kevin Lynch - 25 February 2007


seems like it’s my time to be the boogyman. oh, activism is SO easy! we can call our friends on cellphones and contribute over the internets, why not nip at the BBB’s heels? good for the soul, I guess. why is it so hard to notice that I like y’all? you write entertaining rants and make good points. the whole Yugo situation needn’t have happened. but why wouldn’t anybody in Europe tackle the situation diplomatically? were both they and the Russians sitting there staring into their belly buttons for no good reason? so much we don’t know.

anyway, have fun

85. ms_xeno - 25 February 2007

…so much we don’t know…

Well, er– I think there are foreign oil companies as well as domestic ones, and oil companies spread a lot of money around Europe, as well as the U.S. Even if those countries are nowhere near as oil-dependent as the U.S.

There were doubtless reasonable people who wanted a diplomatic solution, and they were shouted down, paid off, or otherwise manipulated off the chessboard.

Not all that unusual, is it ?

I am sorry for what happened in Yugoslavia, but we had no business there. We owe our own citizens, on our own soil, a better life, before we run around like brain-damaged cowboys lecturing the rest of the world about how it should behave and pounding them to a pulp if they disagree about it.

86. liberalcatnip - 25 February 2007

#35. Sabrina: Amen!

ms xeno,
I admit it – everything is my fault. 😉

And another amen to whoever posted that King quote, she typed as she was too lazy to scroll back through the comments.

How can one be a Christian and ignore the teachings of Christ about issues of peace? (Full disclosure: I was a Christian until age 16 and after many years in the wilderness, so to speak, I’m now an atheist buddhist. I have always been antiwar.)

And screw those who rail against “purists”. Every single person at dkos is a purist in their own way. It’s just rank hypocrisy to claim otherwise and it’s black and white thinking to claim that anyone is 100% “purist” or “pragmatist”. You simply can’t survive as a human being if you’re that limited. That discussion has become severely distorted in that so-called reality-based community.

87. marisacat - 25 February 2007

I admit I have grown to the really hate the so-called surplus. Better to have spent it. Since it got gobbled up! All thru the 90s the issue – one of the big issues – was the failing aging infrstructure, not just NO levees, but so damned much. Did not happen.

SF for whatever reason did a few things. new water pipes (and a long grueling siege that was), electric buses when we were flush in the late 90s, before 9/11 sent a chill… but really just what was needed. Other things we neglected…

88. ms_xeno - 25 February 2007

Oh, yeah. The hypocrisy of bragging about “the surplus,” and all the while guilt-tripping and exploiting the citizens who either

Can’t afford to assume major debt (houses, college, and the like)


Assumed major debt and got monkey-wrenched in the game of Capitalism Gone Wild, and now can’t get out.

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