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The Congealing Fuckball 24 February 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, Abortion Rights, California / Pacific Coast, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Sex / Reproductive Health.

   Pitt and Napoleon 

At politico.com, which has cheekily declared itself a “Anna Nicole-free news zone, unless the father is a politician” is a piece on our very own Arnold.  God help us.  Hardly news he will ‘likely possibly not ruling it out’ run for US Senate in 2011 (hell all he has to do is broker a deal wtih DiFi… maybe by then she will retire to the Villa d’Este in Como)…

Along the way tho is this:

Schwarzenegger said that he believes politicians should be honest about admitting their mistakes but that “people are too tied down with analyzing” whether Hillary Clinton’s vote to authorize the Iraq war was a mistake. 

“Is that what makes the country operate well, if she becomes president?” he asked. “How you twist that or spin that? We should look at what has she done as senator. What has Barack Obama done as a U.S. senator or [a state] senator. What has Rudy Giuliani done? What has McCain done? You’ve got to judge people not by this one little thing.” 

Forgive and forget.  RESPECT and civility is all about conceding to the skrewball mess we are in.  “this one little thing”… All it is is WAR.

Schwarzenegger also said candidates should not be judged on a single issue like abortion. No pro-life presidential candidate has carried California since George H.W. Bush did so in 1988. So I asked Schwarzenegger if he thought McCain, who is also pro-life, could possibly win the state in 2008.  [snip]

Of course he says McCain could win California… abortion being a “this little thing”…

I don’t know.  Recently in the face of Catholic private money (Sebastiani, the winemaker money and a Southland Catholic newspaper publisher) and backed by the Catholic Bishops an initiative made it to the ballot… we defeated the effort to insitute parental notification. 

However!… A very big difference here, the orgs from CA AMA to League of Women Voters to Planned Parenthood, NOW, lesser extent NARAL, had the partnership of the CA DP.  Massive phone banks, editorials and opinion pieces thruout the state, a concerted and sustained campaign against the measure…

Also a very smart (I never would have thought of this) TV ad campaign based on “Keeping Teens Safe”, very credible mothers and daughters across the color spectrum, with the Mother simply saying, if my daughter needed my help I want her to come to me… Vote against Prop __, to Keep Teens Safe.

It worked.  Just prior to election day in 2004, Field poll placed it to be defeated by as much as 9 pt.  I felt pretty good about that.  It was dicey early, but as the 9 Bay Area counties pulled in, esp Alameda co, it was defeated by over 5 pts.

Then again we have Arnold, and the CA DP has conceded to him all the way, from the days of the Recall to now.  So he can now slobber for Hillary.

More cheeky than politico.com  is a comment to the piece flat out wondering:   what did the Clintons do for Arnold to obtain that public endorsement, albeit the endorsement limited to the Great California Teutonic Populist’s excuse for “this little thing”. 

Money for influence, good write-ups and endorsements… well that IS the question, east side west side all around the town.. 😉

Loads of grease around, to grease the rails.  For the skid to hell.


As I am dissecting the congealing fuckball…. this from Bowers at MyDD:

This has not been a very fun week when it comes to writing about Democrats. We have had problems with Howard Dean on Fox, the Blue Dogs on Murtha’s plan to end the war, Senate Dems on Joe Lieberman, Jim Wallis on anti-Democratic stereotypes, Ellen Tauscher and a primary challenge, the idiotic Clinton-Obama kerfuffle, Harry Reid on the Nevada debate, Hillary Clinton attacking Dems with Republican language, and probably a bunch more stuff we didn’t write about on MyDD.

Right, not a great time for the 110th and the Dems.  Wonder why not!  That one little thing, War.  And the second thing?

Now, I don’t regret that our blog pointed out any of these negatives. I find complaints about the “circular firing squad” distasteful, as they imply progressive opinions don’t matter and that we should keep our mouths shut.

Not to get toooo excited… he then added this to excuse so  much outspokeness – emphasis is mine: 

I also feel like internal debate and pressure can be extremely healthy, especially when we are so far from an election.

My how loose lipped… because we know, from the politico.com piece of yesterday, that the 110th is already a tied up, shut down congealing fuckball over ’08… Yes the other little thing:

Both Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., are under pressure from anti-war lawmakers and outside groups to do more to end U.S. involvement in the Iraq.

But neither wants to take any step that risks exposing their party – and in Reid’s case, several Democratic presidential candidates – to a political barrage from Republicans.

Boyz!  Get with the program!  Instanter!  You are losing votes! 

The bulk of the rest of the post is All Time All Day Lieberman Central again.  That too is amusing… the close is this heart string pull  — after he approvingly quotes from the same politico.com article on the Dems ever fluid war strategy (emphasis is mine):

Good. This is what I have been looking for and hoping for. Combined with Murtha’s funding plan, Democrats now have an actual strategy to end the war. I intend to bring as much noise as I can to make sure Murtha’s plan passes both branches of Congress, and that Senate Dems reach the 60 votes they need to pass this bill. It won’t be an easy fight, but at least we have set the parameters of how we can end the war over the next eighteen months.

It is hard out there for a progressive. It is a constant two-front war, facing both the conservative movement and the DLC-nexus. Now, more than ever, it is clear that taking back Congress was just one step in the right direction. Our fight continues, but we are making progress

Meanwile,  the elected Democrats have retreated to Foxholes.  🙂  Those are official foxholes, with air conditioning, heat, catering and, with the bonus package, scheduled consultant appointments, so the Democrats are cosseted, happy and feel they are earning their pensions. 

What else is new.



1. Miss Devore - 24 February 2007

good morning, evils.

I couldn’t wait to see what pic would come up with the title of “Congealing Fuckballs.”

I’m still scatterbrained after a decnet amount of sleep. I took the dog for a walk and picked up a few things at Walgreen’s and when I got back home I pulled out my ATM to open the door.

Sunny & a bit chilly in the South Bay.

2. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

as to why they are stuck … the status quo is too lucrative, and if they aren’t on the take for campaign contributions they’re afraid that an opponent will be:

It is a simple fact of life these days that, owing to a deliberate decision to downsize government, Washington can operate only by paying private companies to perform a wide range of functions. To get some idea of the scale: contractors absorb the taxes paid by everyone in America with incomes under $100,000. In other words, more than 90 percent of all taxpayers might as well remit everything they owe directly to SAIC or some other contractor rather than to the IRS. In Washington these companies go by the generic name “body shops”—they supply flesh-and-blood human beings to do the specialized work that government agencies no longer can. Often they do this work outside the public eye, and with little official oversight—even if it involves the most sensitive matters of national security. The Founding Fathers may have argued eloquently for a government of laws, not of men, but what we’ve got instead is a government of body shops.

Business models must be protected. Profits must be maintained. We no longer have a functioning gov’t … we elect influence peddlers.

These and other SAIC activities would seem to be ripe targets for scrutiny by the new Democratic Congress. But don’t be surprised if you hear nothing at all: SAIC’s friends in Washington are everywhere, and play on all sides; the connections are tightly interlocked. To cite just one example: Robert M. Gates, the new secretary of defense, whose confirmation hearings lasted all of a day, is a former member of SAIC’s board of directors. In recent years the company has obviously made many missteps, and yet SAIC’s influence in Washington seems only to grow, impervious to business setbacks or even to a stunning breach of security.

Much to the embarrassment of a company entrusted with some of the nation’s most precious secrets, its San Diego offices were mysteriously burgled in January of 2005. A censored San Diego police-department report reveals the basic outline. The report notes that the building “is patrolled by DOD certified security” and that “the interior lights are on motion sensors and would have been activated by the suspects.” Nevertheless, burglars managed to break into SAIC’s headquarters, pry open 13 private offices, and walk out with one desktop-computer hard drive and four laptops. By SAIC’s account, the computers contained personal data on thousands of present and past employees, presumably including the company’s many former C.I.A. operatives, N.S.A. executives, and Pentagon officials. To date, the burglary remains unsolved.

SAIC has displayed an uncanny ability to thrive in every conceivable political climate. It is the invisible hand behind a huge portion of the national-security state—the one sector of the government whose funds are limitless and whose continued growth is assured every time a politician utters the word “terrorism.”

SAIC represents, in other words, a private business that has become a form of permanent government.

3. ms_xeno - 24 February 2007

We need to swap this “circular firing squad” bullshit for a better metaphor. Something akin to storming Versailles and trashing it. With Mcat’s foxholes being Versailles. 😉

I win the job-related trance award, Miss D. Dropped the computer on the floor a few days ago. New hard-drive, etc.: $150, approx. >:

4. ms_xeno - 24 February 2007

Scruggs sums up Hillary’s strategy.

…Senator Clinton’s chances at this point rest on diminishing other candidates and outspending them. It’s attrition. If she gets the nomination, she doesn’t want any more votes than are necessary to win the presidency. Mouthing those outrageous idiocies is an effective way to get sensible people tuned out and apathetic, and attract cretinized supporters. Authoritarians of any ideological bent need a core group of wingnuts, who will swallow any nonsense for the team and grind down objectors with bellowed talking points. She’s off to a good start in finding them.

5. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

Wonderful rant:

But then there are the sad-sack Democrats, who voters across the country in a fit of rage gave the keys to Congress and were rewarded with half-assed nonbinding resolutions that couldn’t even make it past the Senate. And that’s after they crowed about all they were going to do in 100 hours. After that? You’re on your own suckers!

Why? Well for starters, Clinton and Obama have another whiny bitchfest on the docket, an election to plan for, and other non-essential extracurricular activities to attend to, all while those same soldiers rot away inside Walter Reed because of the war their sorry ilk rubber-stamped. Meanwhile, the jackass Joe Lieberman they thought would help Gore win the 2000 election ended up turning heel and finally becoming the worthless Republican we all knew he was. And they say Nader cost us the 2000 election. The fucking gall.

Is it any wonder the Bush administration steamrolled right over these pussies while implementing a PNAC plan for energy domination disguised as a urgent need to disarm a country we already knew had no WMD? Is it any wonder that these same losers now look back in anger at their 2002 War Authorization red carpet, not because it was wrong or stupid or easily damned, but because it might cost them an election in 2008?

And so it is without a hint of irony whatsoever that John Kerry, a grandfather clock on its last pendulum swing, recently complained in the Washington Post that he has “had enough of nonbinding” resolutions, or that the Democrats next chowderheaded chess move is to repeal that 2002 megablunder, five years and thousands of corpses too late. And sure, better late than never, but never is really what you get with the Democrats in this barely born new millennium. All it takes is one scan near the bottom of the Post’s piece on the repeal to smack the optimists upside the head with a hyperreality check:

“More important, the legislation may include a waiver that the president or defense secretary could invoke to deploy troops who are not fully combat-ready, Democratic aides said. That way, the commander in chief’s hands would not be tied.”

And so another day passes, and the sea levels rise higher than expected. Exponology goes into overdrive, and the grift goes on. Meanwhile, the Democrats decide to use what precious time we have left on this planet to revisit a monumental fuck-up that happened years ago, in another lifetime practially, when they decided to rely on the national intelligence rather than their own.

I may be relatively young, but I’ve been a political animal since I could talk. And I have never been as ashamed of my country, my party or my politicians in my entire life. And you should be too, whether you’re in on the grift or not. So I’m asking you to do something about it. Go Howard Beale on these mutherfuckers. Prank them, spank them, Sherman tank them, but do not sit idly by anymore while they ruin what wondrous possibility is left in this country as climate change encroaches and liars breed like roaches. This country talks the talk, but will it walk the walk? Is it truly for the people, by the people? Or is it another Rome, whose spectacular fall is mere seconds away, lost in a soup of hyperreal distraction? You decide.

Go read the whole thing.

6. ms_xeno - 24 February 2007

Yeah, whatever, Madman. When will you and your pals learn to stop denigrating my pussy ?

No French Roast and no blueberry waffles for you this morning. Go stand in the corner.

7. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

No French Roast?!?! Evil, evil woman!

Also stumbled across this ranty goodness … Matt Taibbi on Obama:

Obama knows this, and so his entire political persona is an ingeniously crafted human cipher, a man without race, ideology, geographic allegiances, or, indeed, sharp edges of any kind. You can’t run against him on the issues because you can’t even find him on the ideological spectrum. Obama’s “Man for all seasons” act is so perfect in its particulars that just about anyone can find a bit of himself somewhere in the candidate’s background, whether in his genes or his upbringing. You can be white, you can be black, you can be Christian, you can be Muslim, you can be from the American heartland or from Africa… you can even, according to his book The Audacity of Hope, worship Norse Gods or bury your relatives according to Hawaiian rituals:

Here’s the thing about Obama, the reason they call him a “natural” and a “rare talent.” When Hillary Clinton spouts a cliché, it’s four words long, she’s reading it off a teleprompter, and it hits the ear like the fat part of a wooden oar. Even when Hillary announced she was running for president, she sounded like she was ordering coffee. Obama on the other hand can close his eyes and the clichés just pour out of his mouth in huge polysyllabic paragraphs, like Rachmaninoff improvisations. In this sense he’s exactly like Bill Clinton, who had the same gift. He is exactly what is meant by the term bullshit artist.

My usual instinct when presented with this type of Zelig-esque, Eddie Haskell, non-stick personality is to violently reject it. But over the course of the last few weeks I’ve found myself increasingly amused by the Obama phenomenon. For one thing, he clearly pisses off Hillary to no end. Same with Biden and all of those other windbag jerk-off assholes in that revolting “national security Democrats” clan in the Senate. There is something subtly racist (in Biden’s case, not so subtle) in the way these more entrenched Democrats are riding Obama’s lack of credentials and acting like the ’08 nomination is their birthright, like he hasn’t “waited his turn” or something, paid his dues. As if any of these clowns would wait ten seconds to declare for the White House if they had the same odds that Obama has now.

I have no idea who Obama really is, but he is against the war now (and at least never voted for it) and he seems to infuriate the right people. He has people bitching now that he’s not black enough, and there are obviously going to be plenty of people for whom he’s too black. And both of those groups of people, frankly, deserve whatever’s coming to them. So for the time being I’m going to enjoy his rise to the top, the same way I enjoyed reading The Red and The Black — like another great phony, Julien Sorel, Obama is a perfect mirror of the society he was born to conquer, and his journey upward throws everyone he passes into stark, humorous relief. Whether I’ll vote for him is another story. But he’s certainly helping make it clear who shouldn’t get my vote.

8. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

I’m one out-of-control blockquote after another!!!

9. ms_xeno - 24 February 2007

Taibbi makes comedy look easy, much like Perrin at Red State. I’ll give him that. The part about the absudity of the stuffed-shirt legion whining about whether Obama has yet “earned” the right to run is truly five-star material. Like fine brandy.

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

An ex-patriot American Anglican Priest living in New Zealand speaks out on calls there to declare New Zealand a “Christian Nation”:

If my resistance to deem New Zealand to be a Christian nation makes me a traitor, as Brian Tamaki suggests, take me to the Tower, or the New Zealand equivalent, for it would be greatly preferable to living in such a country.

You might think, then, that I am one of the 48.8 per cent of non-Christian New Zealanders.

I am not. I am an Anglican priest serving an Auckland church. And no, I’m not Bishop Richard Randerson under a nom de plume.

As an immigrant from America I know what it means to live in a Christian nation. That’s why I left. New Zealand’s respect for human rights is why I chose to live here as a permanent resident.

It could be argued fairly that New Zealand has a different religious history, so it wouldn’t be an American version of a Christian nation. Maybe. But I suggest that only Christians who see the world like American evangelical fundamentalists think that declaring ourselves a Christian nation is a good thing.

The rest of us welcome the proposed National Statement on Religious Diversity. We only hope it will become law and not merely an aspiration.

Our only reservation is that it promotes tolerating all beliefs.

That sounds noble, but not all beliefs are created equal.

As we see in America, some work against the common good.

11. Tuston - 24 February 2007

IIRC, NZ “whites” have a really nasty eliminationist history wrt the Maori, paralell and kith and kin to what happened here with the NA’s.

“They” are takening their christian jihad world wide, and it seems like joe schmoe kiwi is on the list of converts to be.

RI has a disturbing post up today that seems relevant, if in a tangential way.

12. Tuston - 24 February 2007

Here’s some tasty graf’s from the RI linked story above.

When Oppenheimer said “Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds,” I wonder whether he could have imagined how right and how wrong he was, and that he was speaking for more than himself and his bomb, because no force in the world today – and arguably any day – is a more efficient instrument of Will to Death than the United States of America.

George Bush is not the architect of his wars, but rather another cowboy advocate, and like Dollard he can still delight in them even as he fulfills his job on the team by lying them into being. A couple of weeks ago Washington Life Magazine’s Soroush Shehabi, a grandson of a Pahlavi-era minister of Iran, used a presidential reception to warn, Bush, as though he didn’t already know, that “one US bomb on Iran and the regime will remain in power for another 20 or 30 years and 70 million Iranians will become radicalized.” Bush answered, “I know,” to which Soroush responded, “But does Vice President Cheney know?” Bush walked away, chuckling.

13. earth to meg - 24 February 2007

One of the “heavies” starts to question dkos:


Here’s rserven on the the anti-pacifism diary putting her over the top:

“The attack on pacifists here has pushed me to my limits. I would be sad, but perhaps it is time for me to go as well. I will be examining that over the next couple of weeks, if only because I would like to say goodbye to Bill in Portland Maine before I go. I’d also like to find someone who would keep Teacher’s Lounge going, if at all possible. We all like to see our children have a chance to grow and prosper. No one wants to see their “child” die.
But I would really like someone to give me a meaningful reason to stay.”
Dkos hit a new low with that “let’s-all-bash-the-pacifists diary.” Sometimes I wonder if these asshats are being paid by kos to write this stuff. What’s even scarier is that he probabl doesn’t have to do that. So many people buying into this shit. He doesn’t even have to try to bring these cockroaches out, they just come out.

14. marisacat - 24 February 2007

Well I think it is a little like the “Daou effect” on The Blahhhgers…

The wannabe-but-not-yet-illuminati at Kos know which way is sunshine and love… and the Blahggers know that Daou will have significant positions in campaigns to come, having been favored by losers, but Top Losers! like Kerry and now Hillary.

So they want love and sunshine from Peter Daou… later on he can say, good guy, you helped with thus and so….

Same as money.

15. cad - 24 February 2007

kos’s newest hit piece on kucinich is getting a lot o’ comments. most support kucinich or question the little libertarian boy prince of berkeley.

kos is determined to cut his own throat. there’s a plan afoot.

or his sociopathology is at full bloom.

16. marisacat - 24 February 2007

earth to meg,

I clicked on the rserven diary.. I see “cookiebear” is in there, as tugboat. Also a recent “new name” at BMT is doing some mild tugboat work.

Had no idea that Hunter is pulling a Armando BTD drama queen ”threaten departure”… how silly!

It is probably arguable he is getting the most $$ out of the Starship KosWhack… between Fellowing and being a worker on Kos 4.0 or whatever it is..

LOL I doubt he’d go far…

17. D. Throat - 24 February 2007

WHOA wait a minute…. BREAKING:

I remember one of of your very early posts… (4+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
taylormattd, Militarytracy, Dauphin, WarCriminalGeorge

… from December 8, 1941 where you begged that we “hug Hirohito.”

Look, you can set up all the strawmen you like. That’s your prerogative, of course. But life isn’t balck-and-white. It’s a long gradation from the black darkness to the brightest light. And it seems ridiculous that has to be pointed out to you.

But, then, that’s you.

My example of your earliest diary is just as inane as this diary.

Your “holier-than-thou” act is a great schtick.

Please show me when and where anyone here has been arguing for Democrats to be the party of war.


Tag your Hillary diary with the appropriate Hillary Diary Archetype Number

by Bob Johnson on Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 09:08:35 AM PST

What the hell is this then???

Hmm. (55+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Radiowalla, taylormattd, Cali Scribe, David in Burbank, RunawayRose, Coldblue Steele, Fishgrease, StevenJoseph, Plutonium Page, sobermom, SallyCat, shpilk, Carnacki, Ahianne, bumblebums, cosmic debris, jenifera, cookiebear, javelina, standingup, georgia10, Eddie C, BarbinMD, TiaRachel, Caldonia, hopscotch1997, Frankenoid, Eddie Haskell, ChiGirl88, Sam Loomis, Hardhat Democrat, Irish Patti, vcmvo2, Elise, Militarytracy, panicbean, marathon, Joes Steven, sbdenmon, world traveler, begone, Prof Dave, rserven, dannyinla, New Deal democrat, emeraldmaiden, Irishkorean, Darrell J Gahm, BeninSC, FresnoKossack, Eric Cartman, gloriana, jhritz, NotGeorgeWill, Lucius Vorenus

I’ve read all the comments above. I could argue that the entire meaning of my argument could be found in the part of it that the diarist all-to-conveniently edited down to three dots. I could argue that there is nuance to be had where “consequences” do not have to exclusively mean violence, and where “disproportional” merely means that an attack on an American city will be met with something more substantial and strategic than a single in-kind retaliatory strike.

But I won’t, because I find the comments more interesting. And there, too, I could argue that actions of a nation taken in demonstrable self defense do not, by any stretch of sanity, in and of themselves constitute attempts at hegemony, and that thus conflating them in any comparisons of an Afghanistan sponsored attack against American cities and the entirely separate issue of intervention in Iraq is an act of willfully nurtured ignorance. But I will not debate that point either.

Because after reading all the comments, I have come to a different conclusion. If it is the honest contention of the majority of commenters on this site that America should not have responded militarily against the Taliban when they refused to take unequivocal action against al Qaeda, after two substantial and murderous attacks on the American cities of New York and Washington D.C. — which, from the tone of the debate and the lack of contrary supposition seems every bit as reasonable a distillation of this thread as the diarist’s distillation of mine was presumed to be — than I honestly am not comfortable being a part of a site that thinks that.

I am tired of months of fights in which every diarist tries to out-top the purity of the last, and where every fight is dominated by clownish, overpainted rhetoric that cannot distinguish between the most vile of neocons and some guy three diaries up or down that might have a procedural objection, strategic disagreement or, terror of terrors, different phrasing of the points of an issue.

I think at long last I finally may just be done with this. Have a ball, and I sincerely hope that the new Daily Kos plan of concocting diaried slide shows for each other about your own inherent genius has the world impact you presume it will have.

by Hunter on Fri Feb 23, 2007 at 04:15:32 PM PST

Don’t let the cheese eating surrender monkeys (20+ / 2-)

Recommended by:
taylormattd, Lahdee, Coldblue Steele, Plutonium Page, SallyCat, shpilk, Jerome a Paris, cardinal, Mary Julia, cosmic debris, cookiebear, vcmvo2, Elise, Militarytracy, world traveler, Irishkorean, retriever, FresnoKossack, Eric Cartman, NotGeorgeWill
Trollrated by:
essexgreen, Salo

get to you! Hunter … the French aren’t used to winning, after all — hehe!

— from the hastily reactive to the serenely reflective —

by PhillyGal on Fri Feb 23, 2007 at 05:46:48 PM PST

18. D. Throat - 24 February 2007

there’s a plan afoot.

Yeah the plan is Hilliary is trying to get rid of the stragglers who might interupt her narrative.

19. D. Throat - 24 February 2007

Hunter should give Shea-Porter a call… she has the Army recruiters numbers on speed dial….

20. anonym - 24 February 2007

Divide and conquer. Markos is in a bubble, surrounded by bad advise. Wonder who suggested the purging of blogrolls?

….I agree, Hilary, inc.

21. marisacat - 24 February 2007

well ya know… Hunter made his corporal’s stripes with many many many diaries on the whole fake dox mess over Bush and the TANG, his time in AL and so on. Diaries for weeks, every tiny thing you ever did not know (and who knew?) about 1972 Selectric IBM typewriters.

LOL… I would just slide by them … fine, go ahead. But in the end… sad to say, Republican operative mice did better.

I used to say: I wanna rematch!

Republicans: Dan Rather/Maples/CBS (both for AG as much as for TANG issues), Eason Jordan/CNN and Saved Bush’s Ass Once Again!

Dems: Gannon/WH press room and DOmenech/RedState. TOTALLY ineffective against SBVfT. Not even able to penetrate the market share.

22. arcturus1 - 24 February 2007

a new party slogan?


(you dirty peace-niks . . .

23. James - 24 February 2007

Shorter Hunter:

“Those of you who refuse to be good little American Exceptionalists make me want to take my toys and go home.”

24. marisacat - 24 February 2007

Army Files New Charges in Watada Court-Martial
By Christian Hill
The Olympian

Saturday 24 February 2007

The Army has filed a new round of charges against a Fort Lewis officer who refused to deploy to Iraq and spoke out publicly against the war, resurrecting a high-profile case aborted by a mistrial two weeks ago.

In a widely expected move, the Army on Friday filed the same charges against Lt. Ehren Watada that were brought against him in the wake of his refusal to board a plane bound for the Middle East on June 22.

Watada is charged with missing troop movement and conduct unbecoming an officer for statements critical of the Bush administration and the war that he made in speeches and to journalists.

Link via TO

25. supervixen - 24 February 2007

Jeezus, I have missed a lot. Next Hunter will be asking people to sign antipacifist loyalty oaths???

I´m going on record to say that I was against attacking the Taliban in Afghanistan, and I still say it was a bad idea. Gained us absolutely NOTHING. Hunter is a warmongering dipshit and so are his supporters.

Now I´m going back to the beach. Back home in a few days. I miss you guys!! 😉

26. marisacat - 24 February 2007

oh against bombing Afghanistan as well. We simply bombed humans. Less than a month (Oct 7) we picked on a poverty ridden, defenseless country. Moved against the Taliban, about whom we cared nothing, dealt back in the Northern Alliance/their warlords… picked up our very expensive Army field binoculars and looked to the Caspian Sea… and plotted again for oil – and drugs.

When the Pakistani ISI and elements within House of Saud/S Arabia are the issue.

27. anonym - 24 February 2007

Ten star comment!

28. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 February 2007

I don’t know why anyone is surprised by Hunter really. I have always seen him to be a nasty, snide and not very talented writer. But mostly he has paper-thin skin for someone who wants to be involved in politics. They all do

Hunter, eg, starting months ago, has periodically gone into Opol’s diaries, thronw fits, threatened to ban Opol for merely alluding to another ‘kossack’ and generally acted like a jealous, jr high school student. His diatribes about ‘rules’ have all been pretzel-twisting type monoloques attempting to target the undesirables while protecting the desirables from the very same rules. It’s a hard job trying to twist and squirm like that. And the problem, most people see right through it, except for the usual clique of about, total maybe, 100 followers.

They keep claiming that ‘it’s because we won the election’ etc. that all this fighting is going on. This started before that. Hunter’s and DhinMi and MzzzL, Plupage, Bob Johnson et al, (there are many more, including the wannabees like screleeeeech, npk et al, all acting disgracefully, like nasty, aging ‘jr high schoolers’. And kos himself acting like a mean-spirited, nasty backer of the worst kind of behavior, showing that this is site policy.

They have been unable to stay away from those diaries. Why? They seem to feel under attack for some reason. If the shoe doesn’t fit, then don’t wear it. What’s been going on in those diaries is pathological. And I think has driven many, many people away from the site. Opol raises questions about the Dem. Party and who it really represents. DK doesn’t like those questions.

They make their own problems – the constant push-back would not be necessary if the site truly was what it claims to be. After reading all that stuff on Jerome A. yesterday, wow! And Warner chose him as a consultant? And he accepted, knowing how compromised he was! The left-blogging world surely is getting a very bad rep because of these characters.

‘Something is afoot’ ~ yes, I think there may be division in the ranks as more and more of the best people leave. So Hunter says he’ll leave. The fact is if he did, most people would not even notice. They really do over-estimate their importance. He’s been out-ranted and it looks like he can’t take it.

Otoh, I kind of feel sorry for them. They want the spotlight so badly, which requires more members, but they also want ‘the good old days’ when who was a good writer and who was not was decided by just a few of them. That’s hard, especially when you are finally exposed to a larger audience and your opinions are no longer the most popular. And what you advertise yourself to be, is not what you are and you are constantly trying to defend it.

29. Kevin Lynch - 24 February 2007

isn’t it about time we start looking past Koslandia and start getting down to our own work? look, we all know that the system is corrupt. but simply sitting here and pointing at dooky throwing monkeys will soon get as boring as reading all the Kossian hit pieces. can we come up with a plan to reign in the monsters-of-corruption? or should we just start making our plans to move to other places on the surface of the earth and get disappointed there all over again?

on the cusp of the next great depression

30. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 February 2007

Just read Hunter’s post I was completely against the ‘war’ in Afghanistan. Maybe he could tell us what it accomplished?? Like where’s OBL? He’s not very bright, is he? Very rightwing thinking. He’s feeling threatened that his ideas simply don’t hold up. They are in the minority.

And this:

Don’t let the cheese eating surrender monkeys

From Phillygal. Unbelievable that that was rec’d by so many. It is a Rush Limbaugh/Freeper favorite. But now defunct since the original freedom fries guy has admitted how wrong he was. She is a ‘former’ Freeper. There are so many on that site. And I think it is becoming pretty obvious. No rightwinger will ever be banned there. Only progressives.

31. arcturus1 - 24 February 2007

still don’t understand how teh gov’t thinks it can get around the double jeopardy issue – the defense was willing to continue, the judge made hasty decision – I understand that “manifest necessity” is the term-of-art standrd here – really hard to see, but i’ve been worng before . . .

& significantly:

The refiled charges mean journalists could be subpoenaed to testify in Watada’s second court-martial.

The Army and defense team had subpoenaed two journalists to verify the accuracy of the statements they attributed to Watada during interviews. But their testimony wasn’t needed because in the pretrial agreement, Watada admitted to making those and other statements that served as the basis for the misconduct charge.

Without another agreement, which was the source of the mistrial, “it is a possibility that the reporters will be called,” Kaye said. She reiterated that the Army would not ask for notes, tapes or the identity of anonymous sources.

Still, one of the subpoenaed journalists, Sarah Olson, a radio producer and independent journalist based in Oakland, Calif., has raised public concerns about her ability to gain the trust of sources if she participates in the prosecution of one of them.

(was there really an e-quake? we were at pt reyes then 🙂

re: 8 wd that be blokequote MM?

32. D. Throat - 24 February 2007

isn’t it about time we start looking past Koslandia and start getting down to our own work?

In a word … NO

I happen think looking behind the curtain… is “work” and essential to progressive activism.

33. marisacat - 24 February 2007

arcturus… yes there was a quake… I felt it very strongly as I was still, lying on a day bed on a back bedroom, that has the computer and a TV. It was the sharp jolt! type and not the roll type…

It was not reported on the local news that I listened to.. and I forgot to google for a news report. WIll now.


Kevin L

Under your MO, can I still observe the Dems? Or must I only be a beaver building a dam to block the flow of the river?

When I laid down my Non Rulz.. I said, The Boyz persist in being squirelly and it just sets me off. I would not be stopping.

it’s a fairness issue for me.

34. New Fake Name - 24 February 2007


You might be interested in this Hunter hit and run comment in today’s OPOL diary, with Luscious Vagina tag-teaming along, and who strangely takes another spontaneous shot at you from out of the blue.

Hmm. So, actually, (5+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
byteb, amitxjoshi, cookiebear, AnnArborBlue, Lucius Vorenus

you’re not anti-war at all. You have the same position as nearly everyone else in the room, but using the dishonesty of hyperbolized rhetoric as club against people on the exact same side of the fence as you are: avoid all wars when possible, but engage both in self-defense and in other defensive actions when absolutely compelled.

But thank you for helping to continue the leftist tradition here of engaging in widespread hunts to find and murder the nuance of real world thought in whatever corner it my lurk. I don’t have the slightest problem with pacificm or pacifists, but the new Daily Kos emphasis on constructing elaborate homages to the purity of intellectual simpletonism, a legion of individuals for whom a strawman argument is the only clothes their positions ever need wear, is too much to bear.

Have no fear, this will be my only comment. Arguing will only demonstrate the purity of the assuredly pure, and the ignorance of the assuredly ignorant, and everyone will go back in their corners at the end of the day and praise themselves at the nobility of their mock battles. Same as every other day.

by Hunter on Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 11:32:34 AM PST


Hunter…it is not the new Daily Kos emphasis (0 / 0)

The emphasis belongs only to the Purists here, and they do not represent Daily Kos, but rather hate-filled sites like Marisacat and the like.

Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc
I support Barack Obama for President.

by Lucius Vorenus on Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 12:11:16 PM PST

I think you really have the Kos-operatives frazzled.

35. marisacat - 24 February 2007


Minor earthquake shakes Bay Area

Joshua Sabatini, The Examiner

Feb 24, 2007 6:00 AM (9 hrs ago)

SAN FRANCISCO – A 3.4-magnitude earthquake about two miles east of Berkeley briefly shook the Bay Area late Friday afternoon, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.

The earthquake, which rumbled at 3:46 p.m., apparently caused no damage in The City but was felt there. Both the San Francisco Fire and Police departments said no emergency calls came in following the quake.

BART followed usual protocol and stopped trains for five minutes to make sure there was no damage, which there wasn’t, and then resumed service.

The quake originated from the active Hayward Fault, which was responsible for a series of other quakes felt in the Bay Area in December.

Stephanie Hanna, spokeswoman for the USGS, said it was a “little quake,” but should remind people of the need to prepare for larger ones. She said experts predict the Hayward Fault will result in a major quake about every 150 years and the last one was in 1876. The fault is often described these days as “locked and loaded,” she said.

Steve Sarver, owner of San Francisco Soup Company, said employees and customers at their location in the Westfield San Francisco Centre never knew a quake occurred. “We didn’t feel it.

There was business as usual,” Sarver said.

Leilani Lynch, who was eating a sandwich at Café Corbis on Hayes Street at the time of the quake, said the shaking was barely detectable. “It was only a couple of seconds. A small rumble and that was it. I wasn’t even sure it was an earthquake,” Lynch said.

36. arcturus1 - 24 February 2007


Human Rights Post-9/11: Detention, Torture, and Rendition

Please join us at a presentation and Q&A session with CCR Staff Attorney Rachel Meeropol on February 27th in downtown San Francisco. Rachel will cover the current work being done by CCR and our allies to counter the tactics used by the Bush Administration in their “War on Terror.” She will give an update on the current conditions at Guantanamo for the detainees; the issues being litigated; and the recently passed Military Commissions Act. You will also hear the stories of our clients in the Turkman case dealing with the dragnet sweeps and detention of immigrants post 9-11 and of work being done to stop torture and rendition (including recent developments in the case of Maher Arar the Canadian citizen sent by the U.S. government to be tortured in Syria) by holding those who use or condone these tactics accountable in U.S. courts.

When: Tuesday, February 27, 5:00-6:15 in Room 2201

Where: Golden Gate University Law School

536 Mission Street (btwn 1st and 2nd Street downtown

37. earth to meg - 24 February 2007

Yes, I felt the quake too, marisacat. 23rd floor on Nob Hill. Didn’t make me feel good. 😦

38. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

The US psychological torture system is finally on trial – Naomi Klein:

Now that Padilla’s mental state is the central issue in the case, the government prosecutors are presented with a problem. The CIA and the military have known since the early 1960s that extreme sensory deprivation and sensory overload cause personality disintegration – that’s the whole point. “The deprivation of stimuli induces regression by depriving the subject’s mind of contact with an outer world and thus forcing it in upon itself. At the same time, the calculated provision of stimuli during interrogation tends to make the regressed subject view the interrogator as a father-figure.” That comes from Kubark Counterintelligence Interrogation, a declassified 1963 CIA manual for interrogating “resistant sources”.

The manual was based on the findings of the agency’s notorious MK-ULTRA programme, which in the 1950s funnelled about $25m to scientists to carry out research into “unusual techniques of interrogation”. One of the psychiatrists who received CIA funding was the infamous Ewen Cameron, of Montreal’s McGill University. Cameron subjected hundreds of psychiatric patients to large doses of electroshock and total sensory isolation, and drugged them with LSD and PCP. In 1960 Cameron gave a lecture at the Brooks air force base in Texas, in which he stated that sensory deprivation “produces the primary symptoms of schizophrenia”.

There is no need to go so far back to prove that the US military knew full well that it was driving Padilla mad. The army’s field manual, reissued just last year, states: “Sensory deprivation may result in extreme anxiety, hallucinations, bizarre thoughts, depression, and antisocial behaviour” – as well as “significant psychological distress”.

If these techniques drove Padilla insane, that means the US government has been deliberately driving hundreds, possibly thousands, of prisoners insane around the world. What is on trial in Florida is not one man’s mental state. It is the whole system of US psychological torture.

Yup, MK-ULTRA, that program that used to get written off as a “conspiracy theory”. Makes you wonder what is being developed today for tomorrow’s crimes against humanity.

39. arcturus1 - 24 February 2007

hayward, nt san andreas wd explain why we didn’t notice – didn’t even get an xtra big wave (McClure’s beach, one of the most spectacular of the BA)

experts predict the Hayward Fault will result in a major quake about every 150 years and the last one was in 1876. The fault is often described these days as “locked and loaded”

now take a deep breath & spell




40. marisacat - 24 February 2007

earth to meg…

I was in Honolulu for the Loma Prieta… ’89… but for the two pre quakes in August of 89, I was about 30 floors up in the Embarcadero Center. Not good. WIth one we lost lights for a little bit. Those were around 5.2 on the Richter.

I like quakes myself… just NOT 30 floors up…

41. marisacat - 24 February 2007


exactly! Livermore

and depending on where when, all the weak levees and dams

42. marisacat - 24 February 2007

New Fake Name

what a hoot! My greatest fan, he is.

LOL… so “pure”. That is all they have to lob. aside from body parts and repetitious epithets… 😉

43. arcturus1 - 24 February 2007

lives 1 mile from the second most vulnerable levee system in the country (after, of course, NO)

I was delivering papers to my boss’ lawyer in one of the EC towers (circa 82-85) – small roller, but those fuckers are designed to sway – mind gets the concept, but inner primal fear didn’t much care

we felt LP up here as a looooooong gentle rolling motion lasting several minutes – knowing how waves travel, it was clear something bad was happening somewhere

44. marisacat - 24 February 2007

well this wood frame 1903 house did not budge – too much.. a little (interior) plaster crack on a couple of outside walls… and when we got thru to a neighbor who was feeding the cat, at round 10 pm, he said not even the water in her bowl spilled. Lucky…

But being in Honolulu and looking at the pics on CNN well I just steeled myself the cat was dead. LOL. What a hoot!

I had been making my way back from Waikiki to wehre we were nr Diamond Head and as I shopped my way home I would hear these curious conversations… a shop was stressed they could not reach the SF branch.. a cabbie pulled up by another cabbie and said, “can you raise the Bay Area” and I thought, wow the Series is really pulling attention!

Then I get home… wow.

A friend of mine had been on the Bay Bridge, in a smallish car, she was jsut ahead of the big break, cars behind her fell from the span to the lower part of the bridge. She never felt a thing… knew nothing til she reached her East Bay destination…

45. marisacat - 24 February 2007

oh btw, the city FIRST red tagged EC 1 (the one farthest from the water)… LOL… the building managers simply went out early in the morning and REMOVED the red tag.

Honestly, I’d never want those buildings to go thru antoher. All of the so called emergency stairwells had BIG cracks.

Yeah they rolled but they also did some heavy swaying, from reports on the ground. Plus they line up. SOmehow it just does not inspire that much confidence..

46. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

No way I’m ever gonna live in a place where the earth moves … nosiree.

47. Miss Devore - 24 February 2007

Mitm-thanks for the Naomi Klein.

Svix–my baseball writer, Nuzorro, just emailed me his first article. I told him to post the fucker.

Mcat-too funny about your hate-filled site. It is more like Popcorn and opera glasses with hot tubs and champagne, too.

All-I have a new MacBook (from work), just came back from the apple store where I got my external modem, and hopefully, within the next hour will have switched over to the new computer. I do realize the irony of having a MacBook with dial-up.

48. New Fake Name - 24 February 2007


Naomi Klein’s piece on Padilla torture matter is excellent.

A year ago Democracy Now interviewed Alfred McCoy, who went into depth about the historical development of the ‘no-hands’ torture methods, KUBARK, and the McGill Univ psychological torture research that led to the standardized techniques now being applied by the US govmt at military facilities and the secret CIA prisons.

49. ms_xeno - 24 February 2007

Arrgh. Quakes. This town is SO not prepared.

I propose that we have a round of rasslin’ matches here, in order to dispell the notion that we’re a cult full of “purists.”

I’ll start by going up against D. Throat in a battle to the death over whether or not Al Gore is running/should run. Everyone wait here about half an hour while I zip myself into my spangled leotard-body-armor whatsis…

Hey, anything to entertain the folks back home.

50. D. Throat - 24 February 2007

Wait a minute….

I don’t step into the ring unless I am surrounded by my flock of admiring sicophants… shall we start with singing the Star Spangle Banner followed a blessing from the Street Profits. Perhaps we can get Luscious Vagina to referee… as to the “purity” and “chasteness” of our ideologies.

51. ms_xeno - 24 February 2007

You’re just jealous, D. Throat, because I am nearly 200 lbs. of balletic grace in the ring– plus I have more spangles than you.

Once I whip your butt six ways from Sunday, I’ll take on Miss D. over the always-pressing issue of whether her chihuahua or my calico cat is cuter.

Seriously, though. I wonder how some folks get it into their head that if a disagreement doesn’t generate 4,000,000,000,000 posts every time it comes up, there must be some kind of “cult” mentality at work. On the level, for any Kozzies who might be listening in: The reason I don’t feel compelled to mix it up with D. Throat about Gore every fifteen minutes is because it’s not necessary. We know each other’s opinions on the matter. We will not change one another’s minds by wasting another billion posts on the issue. We can move on to other things. End of story. I don’t think that’s a “cult mentality.” I like to think it’s a sign of maturity. Dare I hope…

52. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

wow, NFN, that McCoy interview is full of all kinds of horrifying stuff.

We really have become a blight upon the world.

53. ms_xeno - 24 February 2007

Well, Madman, it’s good to have a second career to fall back on when you can’t figure out how to build fuel-efficient cars. I mean, that’s how I look at it. Plus, I hear that Blackpool has a really generous 401K plan…

54. outofwater - 24 February 2007

What point is there in posting at Kos if you’re not a Klone? I’m serious, who is left there? Before I was banned I barely posted at all anymore, and when I did it was something untenably disruptive, like Hillary is running as a Republican or there is no point in supporting a Democrat if the candidate is indistinguishable from the Republican. Thoughts too radical to go uncensored in Kosword. I also had the nasty habit of uprating hidden comments with like views.

MC-Luscious Vagina is in love. There is no other possible explanation, you would be wise to hire security.

55. arcturus1 - 24 February 2007

not “become,” MM (#52):

have been & are

56. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007
57. New Fake Name - 24 February 2007

MitM, yeah its sickening what our govmt is doing.

The other frequent technique seemingly being used system-wide in the US and Iraqi run facilities with suspected insurgent detainees, both males and females, is filmed sexual humiliation/rape, which the US/US proxies then use as blackmail to try to make the detainees become informants.

It happened with those two recent Iraq National Police gang-rapes of the Sunni women who claimed they were being filmed, and according to Sy Hersh, the same technique, code-named “copper green” was likely the real reason behind many of those Abu Ghraib sexual degradation photos being taken and existing:

This suggests that the photos are not ‘really’ trophy pictures and nor are they ‘really’ pictures of torture in the normal sense of the word. Certainly they capture images of the degradation of prisoners. But the question is what were the photos produced for? The answer it seems is that they were part of a psychological warfare strategy. Seymour Hersh revealed that this ran by the name of ‘copper green’. Hersh writes: ‘The government consultant said that there may have been a serious goal, in the beginning, behind the sexual humiliation and the posed photographs. It was thought that some prisoners would do anything–including spying on their associates–to avoid dissemination of the shameful photos to family and friends. The government consultant said, “I was told that the purpose of the photographs was to create an army of informants, people you could insert back in the population.” The idea was that they would be motivated by fear of exposure, and gather information about pending insurgency action… If so, it wasn’t effective; the insurgency continued to grow.’ Jon Ronson has traced more of this story in his book The Men Who Stare at Goats. He quotes an interview with Lyndie England, who was in the photos:

England : I was instructed by persons in higher rank to “stand there, hold this leash and look at the camera”. And they took a picture for PsyOps and that’s all I know … I was told to stand there, give the thumbs-up, smile, stand behind all of the naked Iraqis in the pyramid [have my picture taken].

Q: Who told you to do that?

England : Persons in my higher chain of command … They were for PsyOps reasons and the reasons worked. So to us, we were doing our job, which meant we were doing what we were told, and the outcome was what they wanted. They’d come back and they’d look at the pictures and they’d state, “Oh, that’s a good tactic, keep it up. That’s working. This is working. Keep doing it, it’s getting what we need.”

So the question is, what would it mean to say that the Abu Ghraib photos were ‘genuine’? They do show abuse and humiliation and perhaps torture, but they are not just a record of torture, but an active part in the process of torture.’

58. missdevore - 24 February 2007


I somehow can’t see LV singing “Sexual Healing” to Mcat as LOA was doing to elise. (I didn’t copy or bother to cite–a waste of copy and paste)

I’m in gadget heaven-just accessed my work emails and deleted tons of crap.

59. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

hey, Arcturus, apparently the latest issue of Science features a piece on some of the latest work being done on dating the Clovis migrations, as we were discussing at LSF earlier this week.

Off topic, sorry.

60. outofwater - 24 February 2007

MD-Please waste the link. I’m on death’s door and could use a laugh. Is LOA Armando? If so, how does McJoan feel about this philandering, or is that the point? These are the icons of the place!

What will happen to cause good change in our government? It seems so hopeless

61. D. Throat - 24 February 2007

Watch out !!!!

Luscious Vagina just squeezed himself into a pair ofred white and blue star spangled leotards

62. arcturus1 - 24 February 2007

thx, MM

that Guardian article about the Japanaese – o man! (seem to recall A McCoy talked about a Japanese Dr/surgeon/torturer who cia shielded) – I’m surprised Bush hasn’t just shut down FOIA altogether

63. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

He has shut/slowed down much of FOIA for recent gov’t actions and records, but some of the older stuff that was ordered release by statutes would require Congressional action, I think. I don’t expect to see records for the last four presidents to come out in my lifetime unless there is a paradigm shift in the way politics works in this country.

64. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

wow, Lucious Vagina is a serious moron, and has NO understanding of the real history and process of political change. So called “purists” are the battery that powers politics, and a party without them isn’t a functioning party (which sums up the difference in effectiveness of our “two” parties).


65. missdevore - 24 February 2007

lunatic article of the week:

“Illegal aliens are killing more Americans than the Iraq war, says a new report from Family Security Matters that estimates some 2,158 murders are committed every year by illegal aliens in the U.S. The group says that number is more than 15 percent of all the murders reported by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the U.S. and about three times the representation of illegal aliens in the general population.”

cuz it’s not the iraq war that’s a problem–it’s those illegals.

outofwater–ok, as an act of charity and, of course, purity, I will look for the link.

66. marisacat - 24 February 2007

And it’s the party that passed the Civil Rights Act in 1964 and the Voting Rights Act in 1965 and the Great Society and the New Deal. This is not of interest? I don’t understand that. – From LV diary, excerpted from an interview with Tony Kushner of Angels in America

Welll….. that was 45 years ago. And to push that one needed a strong congress, a strong independent DoJ, a half way honest Chief Executive… and a Dem party that wanted to build its popular vote by including poor blacks, poor whites and championing minorities, women and CHILDREN..

They don’t … they talk that game but they poor mouth on what they can deliver. And they abandoned and then they abandoned AGAIN.

The Democrats are the party that supports the Republican agenda.

I think a lot about all the deaths of the 60s, all of them, from the nearly unknown, such as Viola Liuzzo – shot in the face while providing transportation during Freedom Summer – to the famous.

The Democratic party has not kept the implied compact.

Pity Kushner will not see that. Maybe he needs to call David Mixner… who supported Kerry but very very quietly. After being arrested outside the WH demonstrating for gay rights – and there being no support from the Clinton WH.

Cybil Shepard -and Bill Clinton – supporting Harold Ford jr is NOT advancement. It is just party politics.

67. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

and the party only got there after decades of “purists” agitating OUTSIDE the party. So sick of the willful ignorance.

68. marisacat - 24 February 2007

Quick, swaddle the baby, protect the new born from the night air!

I’m encouraged to read that you encourage debate. (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:mkrell, suicide blonde, Diaries

But trying to reconcile that with the number of times over the past years that you’ve said what voices and what debates you deem as acceptable here… well… I can’t keep track of what you really want.

But hey, keep on rockin’.

jotter’s Lists of High Impact Diaries: daily and weekly archives (bring your own bendy straws)

by sele on Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 04:08:50 PM PST

Um, Lucius is new. (0 / 0)

Whoever you might be talking about, they’re certainly not in this discussion.

I, personally, will regard any further speculation on this or related matters to constitute attempted outing and will troll-rate it with great force.

Not to be nasty – just to hide the comment, ok?

Compromise on Personnel – Never on Principle. Street Prophets – “Ani Adonai Eloheichem” He says.

by mkrell on Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 04:11:15 PM PST

[ Parent ]

Do not troll rate. (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:mkrell, suicide blonde

Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc

I support Barack Obama for President.

by Lucius Vorenus on Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 04:12:23 PM PST

[ Parent ]

Fair enough. Thanks. n/t (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:mkrell

jotter’s Lists of High Impact Diaries: daily and weekly archives (bring your own bendy straws)

by sele on Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 04:12:59 PM PST

[ Parent ]

Thanks for being understanding. (0 / 0)

That’s the sort of comment that could start flame wars, if you decided to get your hackles up – but I take outing VERY seriously.

Thanks again.

Compromise on Personnel – Never on Principle. Street Prophets – “Ani Adonai Eloheichem” He says.

by mkrell on Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 04:14:27 PM PST

[ Parent ]

69. arcturus1 - 24 February 2007

none of whom would have done much if not for that PUSH – which came from a grassroots movement that made DEMANDS, not requests, & was not worried about who might be alienated

something I haven’t yet gotten around to writing about is the federal gov’t’s take over of the CA prison medical system – & I mean take-over; it’s under the total control right now of a man appointed by & answerable only to a federal judge (you can imagine how that goes down in certain quarters)

which is a roundabout intro to judge thelton henderson – fired from his first job as a lawyer in the JFK DoJ – for giving MLK a ride out of hostile redneck terrain – google shd turn up an interesting documentary on his life made ago

i don’t think they write those profiles in courage anymore . . .

70. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

Robert Perry on the Clintons’ problems with truth:

Yet, even if Clinton didn’t want to spend the political capital that creation of a grand truth commission might have required, he still could have cooperated with three key investigations that were underway at the end of 1992.

Special prosecutor Lawrence Walsh was still battling the cover-up that had surrounded the Iran-Contra scandal of the 1980s; Democratic congressmen were digging into the “Iraqgate” scandal, the covert supplying of dangerous weapons to Iraq’s Saddam Hussein in the 1980s; and a House task force was suddenly inundated with evidence pointing to Republican guilt in the “October Surprise” case, alleged interference by the Reagan-Bush campaign in 1980 to undermine President Jimmy Carter’s efforts to free 52 American hostages then held in Iran.

Combined, those three investigations could have rewritten the history of the 1980s, exposing serious wrongdoing by Republicans who had held the White House for a dozen years. The full story also would likely have terminated the presidential ambitions of the powerful Bush family, since George H.W. Bush was implicated in all three scandals.

After winning in November 1992, however, Bill Clinton and the leaders of the Democratic majorities in Congress didn’t care enough about the truth to fight for it. Heeding advice from influential fixers like Vernon Jordan, Clinton and the congressional Democrats turned their backs on those investigations.

Easy Exit

Clinton agreed to let George H.W. Bush retreat gracefully into retirement despite Bush’s brazen attempt to destroy Walsh’s criminal investigation by issuing six pardons to Iran-Contra defendants on Christmas Eve 1992.

In his 2004 memoirs, My Life, Clinton wrote that he “disagreed with the pardons and could have made more of them but didn’t.” Clinton cited several reasons for giving his predecessor a pass.

“I wanted the country to be more united, not more divided, even if that split would be to my political advantage,” Clinton wrote. “Finally, President Bush had given decades of service to our country, and I thought we should allow him to retire in peace, leaving the matter between him and his conscience.”

By his choice of words, Clinton revealed how he saw information – not something that belonged to the American people and that had intrinsic value to the democratic process – but as a potential weapon that could be put to “political advantage.”

On the Iran-Contra pardons, Clinton saw himself as magnanimously passing up this club that he could have wielded to bludgeon an adversary. He chose instead to join in a cover-up in the name of national unity, presumably with the hope of some reciprocity from the Republicans when his own secrets might need sweeping under the rug.

71. New Fake Name - 24 February 2007

[second posting attempt]

Username Lucious Vagina just produced ( in a 2500 word, copy-edited “Purity is Bad” response diary to try to beat down the anti-war wildfire of acclaim to OPOL’s kosoperative-so-labelled “antiwar Purity” diary.

During the same period Luscious Vagina was researching and crafting said rebuttal diary, LV (or LV bots/clones?) also served attack-dog/operative uprating duties in two ‘problematic’ off-message diaries, uprating numerous KosKidz’ baiting comments.and making a total of 7 snitty comments him(them)self during that time in the OPOL and Jerome a Paris diaries.

Something seems phony to me about this, as it would seem hard for any single person to do all the above tasks in that timeframe . A non-transparent rapid response operation with multiple helpers using the same username, seems more likely to be in play there.

Which is why I can’t help thinking that this Kos stuff is a dishonest rigged operation.

72. marisacat - 24 February 2007

well I am not crediting the party, but with RESPONSE to decades of push. Much like FDR. Tho both (LBJ, FDR) did some good and some great good, both circumnavigated the deep rooted conservatism amongst the business serving elected class that RULES the country (as fixers for their backers).

But “they”, the parties, various entities, the LVs of the earth, massive fakers… worked to unravel much, rather quickly. I mean, DD is the classic snotwipe ethnic white Catholic who helps every day keep the country in a regressive gutter.

Some remain dedicated to a better AMerica, but too few.

73. marisacat - 24 February 2007

arcturus when you write on the CA prison medical system, let me know, will post it here…

74. arcturus1 - 24 February 2007

2 parties:

good cop | bad cop

’nuff said

75. marisacat - 24 February 2007

New Fake name,

sorry you got trapped in “spam” I pulled out the second version of the post and released it.


76. colleen - 24 February 2007


wow, Lucious Vagina is a serious moron>/s>

I just read his essay and was prepared to spend a considerable amount of time explaining exactly why this was so. I applaud your brevity. Thank you.

77. New Fake Name - 24 February 2007

I messed up on some of the html coding and did not review it well enough before posting. (you know I don’t have a copy-editor, at least)

A couple of the links and phrases were lost as a result, but I think the main idea got accross anyway that LV generated that 2500 word rebuttal diary in just 2-3 hrs while LV was also ‘multitasking’ on thought police/uprating patrol.

78. earth to meg - 24 February 2007

That diary made the rec list with 8 comments. I don’t know how many recommends it had at the time, but … 8 comments, and it’s on the rec list? Tell me the game isn’t rigged.

I think it’s a carpet bomb, of sorts. They are flooding the site with anti-liberal bias to take down the cred of the leftists and hope a lot of the shit will stick. Hunter professing to “leave” (yeah, right) is a way to draw in empathy for the centrists. The nerve of those lefties! Making Hunter leave!

Kos is probably getting desperate. That OPOL guy’s popularity is swelling with all of this anti-60s anti-lefty bullshit, and kos is probably in panic mode. Maybe Reid’s on his case about it. LOL. If anybody knows about doing kneecaps, that would be “Casino State” Reid. I can hear it now: “WTF, Kos? You said you’d sweep out the libs? How’s that going?” Oh, the pressure.

79. marisacat - 24 February 2007

yes it is a wonderment, the Big Thugs who post every few seconds. Quite literally.

SOmeone posited to me that Kos purposefully fosters addicts, people addicted to massive commenting (aside from Thug WOrk) on the internet.

Makes sense…

Certainly a lot of work place computers get used and in fact the one at his Firm was used for cunt, bitch, whore work.


80. marisacat - 24 February 2007

LOL Reid the “Mirage”…

what a hoot.. and they love to say he still lives in the same smallish house in Searchlight. Hardly… as he uses his PAC for Christmas tips at his condo bldg. what a scam!

Rther like Warren Buffet still owns the family two storey in what is it, Iowa… ???

when he lives in a 4.5 million (a several years out of day evaluation) in Newport Beach CA.

81. ms_xeno - 24 February 2007

Yeah, the Democrats “gave” the POC their freedom, out of the goodness of their hearts. Shit. I can barely find a Democrat who knows who Fannie Lou Hamer was. Or what a “Dixiecrat” was. Fuckin’ morons. The “Great Man” complex strikes again.

Madman, our main hope at this point is that someday the rest of the world’s nations will find a way to try us for our crimes against humanity. Certainly relying on such an impetus from inside the country isn’t working out too well. One of the reasons Dems were so anxious to rubber-stamp Bush’s Supreme God Powers was because they wanted a chance to play with them, too– Once they could get their own top dog. Does anyone really doubt that Hillary would hesitate to use Bush’s methods against their common enemies, or her own idealogical enemies ? I certainly have no doubts.

82. ms_xeno - 24 February 2007

And you know, I hate to be petty and low-minded to Mr. Star-Spangled Leotards, but you know, TONY KUSHNER IS FUCKING RICH !! Is it really such a surprise that people tend to become more complacent and enamored with “working within” when they’re rich ? Especially when their riches and continued status depend on not pissing off other rich, status-obsessed people ?

Christ on a cracker…

83. marisacat - 24 February 2007

I think Tony needs to talk to Larry (Kramer). Or really! Give Mixner a call, see what he thinks of all the Clinton promises and why 12 years later he was not ‘out there’ with his support of kerry. As kerry double stepped over gay rights. Such cute talk… between a federal DoM act or did I mean MA Defense of Marriage Act… LOL.

84. ms_xeno - 24 February 2007

Well, who needs their civil rights actually written into law when they’ve got lots and lots of money to buy freedom and/or safety with ? For themselves. I mean, it’s a popular mentality at the top. Just ask Mary Cheney.

85. marisacat - 24 February 2007
86. Kevin Lynch - 24 February 2007

please, let’s leave my MO out of this (I live in MO., by the way 😉 you can look at my comments under KevinEarlLynch back at Koslandia. I am not any kind of worshiper when it came to that place. what gets my goat about all the hate here is that it seems to be about bad blood. revenge motivation. got my butt out of dKos because it really is all about to start disintergrating. soon it’ll be ‘all butt-kissing all the time’. everyone else will have decided they’re women’s studies/hippies/pacifists kind of people and figure out they’re not welcome. if this is all about your “Village of the Banned” experience, why not stop giving the ubernerds satisfaction? ignore them and their BBB world. they’re going to march into oblivion, sooner than later, whether you give the blow-by-blow or not. can’t we be bigger than the BBB people and really start trying to organize a real progressive network? just sayin’…

form the cusp of the next great depression

87. Madman in the Marketplace - 24 February 2007

It’s not about hate. It’s to highlight the way operatives derail the vital conversations that people in this country need to have.

Kos and his kronies market themselves as the leading “liberal” blog, and a lot of well-meaning, newly active people go there expecting a genuine leftist conversation. Many of the people here posted there pre-scoop, or right after, and know that there was once a vital ebb and flow of ideas that was, and is, systematically squashed. dKos is just one “place” where this happens, but those games are played out throughout this culture. It’s important that people recognize and confront the way operatives and scum derail political energy, political thought … we just happen to all share the experience of that place, but dKos is just one example.

Some of the people posting here ARE organizing things, doing things. Some of us are just observers and critics … but however a person’s interests and experiences inform their politics it’s important to have places to go where you can hash things out. If you don’t like the way we do it, then piss off, but don’t come in here lecturing us for not acting as you would like … if we wanted that we’d go hang out Luscious Vagina and the rest of the bullies.

88. marisacat - 24 February 2007

well there is the Ind Blogger Alliance I may have the name wrong…. But I received the link today…

I am sure they are looking for compatriots.

Sorry to displease you, I am happy as I am. If you think this is Village of the Banned, to say nothing of “hate” (you have me laughing) well… LOL.. that is Dkos talking points. In fact it is Delaware Dem talking points, an ARmando talking point… etc. A very tired and whiney Martin Longman tp. (I was happy to help with his numbers!)

The conversations here, the back and forth, hold several ideas at once. I don’t care that people only see what they want to see.

BTW, most of my ‘visitors’ have said the same, from Meteor Blades (“the cocoon”), to Non partisan (“corner of corners”), to pyrrho (a lot of drool, hard to remember) to Msock (recent enough you can find her tired invective back a thread or two)… I think I forgot a few others. As they are ALL THE SAME. Virtually the same person.

the world of online machine politics will not always be a “Dkos” production but it is not going away. Even the rubes and boobs over at Dkos and Box Car Sites know that. They want in on the next Daou campaign, that much they know….

You take care now…

89. bayprairie - 24 February 2007

what gets my goat about all the hate here is that it seems to be about bad blood.

kevin. i think colleen said it best. what this site represents in some respects is

the institutional memory of the scam that is dkos.

it’s clear to me you obviously know very little about this site, or its history, or the people who comment here, and (it gets worse) i rather suspect that much of what you do know are other people’s opinions. so you’re here with what i appear to be preconcieved opinions (we’ve seen before) founded on what i must assume is a rather superficial investation.

during the israeli invasion of lebanon this site was one of the best that i know of in linking to, and commenting on, an unpropaganized world-view of what was really occuring; the war crimes, the murders of civilians, the scattering of the hundreds of thouands of american and israeli clusterbombs. big box political blogs, you know the ones we allegedly “hate”, were much more hushed and silent because the democratic party controls them to a greater extent and the democratic party doesn’t approve of the truth in this case. the party wants any unpleasant truths about israel criminality and intrangience hushed up and silenced. there was no silence here.

that example didn’t involve your alleged “hate and bad blood” at all, it involved an attempt by the owner of this site, and people that post here to share, and broadcast, the truth about the outrageous criminality that was hushed up in this country, im proud of this blog, the reality is this blog represents what many of the party controlled sites should be. we aren’t the problem here, we’re the people. there is no party influence at this site, no organizations involved, its nothing but people. and frankly if strong resentments to blogs that could, and should, have done more, go hand in hand with the goddamn honest truth that appears here daily im fine with that. why wouldn’t you be? hell it ought to be encouraged. the anger of the people can motivate change.

on another matter, upthread in your first post you ask some questions that are important, and that a lot of us are asking ourselves too.

but the deal is, i’m sad to say, its that like the old blues song about death. the lyrics go

no body…

can go there…

for you…

you have to answer questions like that for yourself.

90. marisacat - 24 February 2007

oh on the Lebanon war… thanks for that bay.. I had almost forgotten.

Mcat ws picked up by several english language Middle East issues and topics aggregators. I was rather pleased with that..

btw, kevinearllynch… maybe your comments are hidden at Kos.. but using your ”comments” page and searching up to “5 years” back (scoop should go to Oct 2003), nada.

maybe you lurked…

91. ms_xeno - 25 February 2007

Hey, Kevin. I was never banned from Kos. I never posted there. As a long-standing Nader voter, I knew from the start that it was unlikely I would be welcome in such a space, unless I was willing to be “closeted,” so to speak.

My husband has posted to Kos for years. He’s one of the “born-again” Dems who voted for Nader in 2000 and then furiously repudiated the whole thing in 2004. I’ve told him that he’s off his gourd for thinking Kos and his cronies care about anything but themselves and glomming on to a piece of the campaign money pie. But he’s a big boy. Just as the DP itself cares for nothing and no one but its own soft, corrupt, useless “leaders,” and using the rank-and-file for a perpetually guillible (no-fee) ATM machine. But let him learn for himself.

What happens at Kos is sadly endemic of what is happening in the DP as a whole;All day, every day. That’s why it makes perfect sense for threads here to mesh routinely outraging current events with the latest Sermon on the Mount from Mr. Orange Demo-Libertarian Reaganite Wannabe. They are intimately connected. Hell, Kos himself can’t stop bragging about what an “insider” he is. Who am I to argue ?

92. Kevin Lynch - 25 February 2007

OK, I never meant for my comments to be seen as an insult. the writing here is excellent and that’s why I’m reading. but you can’t blame a boy for not reading what came before he got here. it’s good to know that you all were doing your best when the Isrealis invaded Lebanon. wish I could have read it then. unfotunately it was the whole sad DelDem affair that brought my attention to the site. read it, liked it, bookmarked it. I’ve probably made as many comments in this one thread as I would in one month at dKos. too bad you couldn’t find any of them back there. I registered pre-scoop and wasn’t afraid to give even Kos an earfull if my passions were stirred. but that’s all done with. I’m here and I’ll keep reading. just concerned that it was kinda ‘one-trick-pony’ish lately. definately will not be “pissing off”, but I ain’t no cheerleader

from the cusp of the next great depression

93. marisacat - 25 February 2007

LOL frankly whatever. You go from “hate” to “one trick pony”. Go ahead move the goalposts. I doubt you can keep up.

IF you did not notice during the DD events that it is impossible for that sort to insult me, well LOL read again. And surely you have figured out, what that sort and their supporters, etc., think of this site is not important to me.

As I said to poor tired emsock… unlike so many I never wanted anything from the Boyz. It does make a difference, I am not tethered to any of them..

The others have all declared their support, fealty, loyality and in fact out right LOVE for the Boyz, this one or that one, or Kos himself. They are so tense they constantly exclaim it over and over!

Much of endless war you s ee on other sites is the divisions in the ranks that form behind one or the other of the Boyz fight with each other.

Took YEARS for some to see that Armando and MB are part of it all. So many comforted themselves that they were not really inside the congealing fuckball.

Apparently you never commented post scoop tho you registered. SO why did you suggest I read your comments.

94. Kevin Lynch - 25 February 2007

because I did comment post scoop. I don’t know why they’re not there. it’s all moot now, shot of the mouth and there’s no proof that I’m not a Kos-kisser (comments were supposed to be proof *sigh*). dislike away. it’s your site and I’ll never more criticize what you want to do with it. I played nose tackle, not place kicker. goal posts won’t move again. sorry for the inconvenience, and I’ll be reading


95. marisacat - 25 February 2007

I don’t dislike you. But you arrived charging “hate”, among other things. Machine politics is not for hating, it is to be survived and slowly work for a better day. If one is possible…

LOL OF course I will have a reply to that (hate). It is just plain old ‘Boyz talking points’. They are not inventive, being wanna bes and operatives.

You are welcome to read and welcome to comment.

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