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Evening Open Thread… 28 February 2007

Posted by marisacat in Blonde Sense, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.

La Louche... still here!

Oh my!… any issues, addenda, gossip, etc., regarding anything, drop me a line:  Marisacat … at … AOL … dot …  com.



1. arcturus1 - 28 February 2007


The journalistic point is clear. Journalists and political leaders should not talk about an “attack.” They should use the words that describe what is really at stake: nuclear war — in boldface.

much as he often annoys me anymore (& I’m al ong-time reader of his work – Women Fire & Dangerous Things a near bible for years), this is the kind of plain-speak the American public does understand – & fear – a useful point for anyone still writing letters to t he Ed

2. marisacat - 28 February 2007

yes… IF ONLY the Democrats had taken some very simple lessons from him. (Had they cared to… that is)

I read that Dorgan, who is very direct and plain spoken, was part of the group that asked him to come talk to Democrats in 2002/03.

I agree, I don’t see eye to eye with Lakoff necessarily.. but the Dems just passed on simple instructions.

They always fall to versions of silencio or obfuscation. Since their real desires align too closely with the Republicans.

The elections jigs and gigs would be up then, if that were REALLY clear.

3. arcturus1 - 28 February 2007
4. liberalcatnip - 28 February 2007

Prodi remains Italian PM.

ROME (Reuters) – Romano Prodi won a confidence vote in Italy’s upper house on Wednesday to stay on as prime minister, but an opinion poll suggested his grip on power would remain weak.

5. D. Throat - 28 February 2007

Re Stock market…. I am reading all of these breathless headlines of the DOW REBOUNDING 52 pts…. after losing 400 pts yesterday… is this what they are calling a “rebound”.

Reading thru some threads I came across a few comments that China may be in effect shooting the preverbial bow across the US bow…if they do not pull bak on Iran. Incidentally that after months of begging this adminstration to sit down with Iran and Syria it was coincidentally agreed to yesterday.

My question is this … way back in my memory databanks I remember reading something about Rubin under Clinton “effecting” many Latin Ameriacn stock markets (badly)… does any one know about this or am I just misremembering or read someone that was way off the mark?

6. marisacat - 28 February 2007

oh you know… LOL all a computer glitch.
What a hoot.

One born every few seconds.

7. outofwater - 28 February 2007

That is how they try to control the netroots. Money plays no part in it. It’s no more corrupt that the relationship between the news reporters and the government.

Now, I don’t have a dog in this hunt, but that is about the most intentionally stupid comment ever made. Blogs are no more corrupt than the very definition of corruption? Their shit doesn’t stink more than any other shit? Why bother?

The core corruption of the on-line world came as a recent cold. awakening to me, I hadn’t changed over the years, so imagine my surprise to learn that it had, and how. Now the Democrats have “power” and everyone’s learning the jokes on them. If this wasn’t about money the BBB would be screaming bloody murder for an end to the war, universal health care etc. etc. instead they desperately beg, then scream, for the followers who remain (the most gullible of the most gullible) to stay the path, we don’t want the Republicans in charge again, after all.

Not about money my ass. Who is still fooled by such crap?

8. Revisionist - 28 February 2007

D Throat — that was my intial reaction yesterday before I read any of the stories. I just knew there was a big drop and thought I bet China is sending a signal.

9. D. Throat - 28 February 2007

Blogmaid cleaning up Aisle 9

The Blue Dog Dems are kidding themselves if they think they are on the vanguard of the new Democratic party–the Democrats didn’t so much win in many of these districts as the Republicans lost, and the Republicans lost in large part because of the absolutely disastrous Iraq war. A war which the American people expect a new Democratic Congress to do its utmost to get us out of. And how do they repay that trust the American people have given them? They work actively to derail the Murtha plan, a plan which, btw, a majority of the American public supports!

The Blue Dogs have led the way on some important fiscal issues, taking the lead on pay-as-you-go funding limitations being passed in the first 100 hours. They should stick with the fiscal issues, those core issues for them. And stay the hell out of the Iraq debate if they can do nothing more than splinter the caucus.

Blue seems to be the color of the day… Below was just posted hours before the above… this is on the same FP!

For what it’s worth, Murphy opposes using the supplemental Iraq budget to restrict administration war options (the Murtha plan), stating, “I want to make sure you can’t get money from a different pot, shift it over. Strategically, I want to make sure we don’t get an end around by the White House.” Instead, along with Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) and Rep. Mike Thompson (D-CA), he is a sponsor of the Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007,

Who do they think they are kidding??? No really …who?

10. Kevin Lynch - 28 February 2007

Let’s hope the signal was paid attention to! Man! To come to the realization that the CHINESE COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT is saner than our own. What a shocker


11. outofwater - 28 February 2007

KL-There is a rabid fox wandering through my neighborhood, it is more sane than the current US government. Not only that, but the frothing fox is more trustworthy.

In China we Trust

12. D. Throat - 28 February 2007

Iran’s New Alliance With China Could Cost U.S. Leverage

An oil exporter until 1993, China now produces only for domestic use. Its proven oil reserves could be depleted in 14 years, oil analysts say, so the country is aggressively trying to secure future suppliers. Iran is now China’s second-largest source of imported oil.

The economic ties between two of Asia’s oldest civilizations, which were both stops on the ancient Silk Road trade route, have broad political implications.

Holding a veto at the U.N. Security Council, China has become the key obstacle to putting international pressure on Iran. During a visit to Tehran this month, Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing signaled that China did not want the Bush administration to press the council to debate Iran’s nuclear program. U.S. officials have expressed fear that China’s veto power could make Iran more stubborn in the face of U.S. pressure.

The burgeoning relationship is reflected in two huge new oil and gas deals between the two countries that will deepen the relationship for at least the next 25 years, analysts here say.

Last month, the two countries signed a preliminary accord worth $70 billion to $100 billion by which China will purchase Iranian oil and gas and help develop Iran’s Yadavaran oil field, near the Iraqi border. Earlier this year, China agreed to buy $20 billion in liquefied natural gas from Iran over a quarter-century.

Iran wants trade to grow even further. “Japan is our number one energy importer for historical reasons . . . but we would like to give preference to exports to China,” Iranian Oil Minister Bijan Zanganeh said this month, according to China Business Weekly.

In turn, China has become a major exporter of manufactured goods to Iran, including computer systems, household appliances and cars. “We mutually complement each other. They have industry and we have energy resources,” said Ali Akbar Salehi, Iran’s former representative to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

China’s trade with Iran is weakening the impact on Iranian policy of various U.S. economic embargoes, analysts here say. “Sanctions are not effective nowadays because we have many options in secondary markets, like China,” said Hossein Shariatmadari, a leading conservative theorist and editor of the Kayhan newspapers.

This I didn’t know…

The countries also share concerns over radical Sunni Muslims. Most Iranians follow the rival Shiite strain of Islam; China has more than 20 million Muslims, and the government has been facing Muslim unrest in some of its western cities. The dissidents receive support from Islamic groups in Afghanistan and the countries of former Soviet Central Asia — the region that straddles both Iran and China.

Islam has historically been a link between the two civilizations. It made its way to China via Persia, the ancient state that was based in present-day Iran, Iranians note. Many Chinese Muslims pray in Persian, not Arabic. Their everyday language is Turkic, but their alphabet is Persian.

But in recent times, ties betw

13. D. Throat - 28 February 2007

Who Owns the Equity in Chinese Listed Companies?

The Chinese stock markets are queer creatures, if only because of massive state involvement. With nationalization in the 1950s, the Chinese state became the nominal and functional owner of all commerce and industry. The reverse function – privatization – has proved to be a greater difficulty.

Roughly 1,200 state-owned enterprises (SOE) listed on these markets, ostensibly becoming firms owned by shareholders, instead of the state. Closer inspection reveals that the state remains the greatest shareholder in these firms, and they are not easily or readily divested of their interests.

About one-third of the equity in these firms are held in the form of Legal Person (LP) shares, very often owned by state-controlled entities.

Approximately a further one-third is held by the state (guojia gu), which may not be traded. Indeed, they aren’t even listed. For somewhat more detail on shareholding, see this article by Wang Jiangyu.

In other words, only about one-third of the market actually trades (as “geren gu”) over the various exchanges. Professor Stephen Green:

The large proportion of non-tradable equity means that China’s liquid stock market is relatively small, worth just RMB 1,317.9 bn (USD 158.8 bn), less than 17% of GDP, at the end of 2003. This is small in comparison to other markets, even other emerging markets. The markets of Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand were all more developed, with only the likes of Argentina and Poland behind.”

Which means that China could take a dump on its market… without major damage to it’s economy.

This is all coming from a diary on DK… I took notice when the usual suspect showed up to try and ridicule the diarist… figured that he must ahve been on to something… since none of the protagonist could give a good reason besides calling him a conspiracy theorist….

14. D. Throat - 28 February 2007

China’s economy is increasingly intertwined with the United States, with two-way trade of more than $260 billion last year.

But China’s stock market is walled off from the rest of the world, making cross-border reverberations less likely. Rules limit foreigners’ purchases of the yuan-denominated stocks that make up the biggest share of China’s markets, and capital controls bar them from moving money quickly between China and other markets.

“I don’t see a direct link between the markets” in China and abroad, said Qu Hongbin, chief China economist for HSBC Corp. in Hong Kong.

However, experts in the U.S. contend there are a number of connections in which a slide in Chinese stocks would impact Wall Street. Even though it is difficult for foreign investors to penetrate the Chinese markets, there are still 295 stocks from the greater China region that trade on the New York Stock Exchange.

Further, China’s growing economy may eventually become the world’s largest. The CIA’s World Factbook has estimated that China’s economy in 2006 ranked third, behind No. 1 U.S., and No. 2 European Union. Any kind of recession in China would have a very real impact on U.S. companies that do business there, or depend on China for goods and services.

15. earth to meg - 28 February 2007

“Let’s hope the signal was paid attention to! Man! To come to the realization that the CHINESE COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT is saner than our own. What a shocker”

Kevin, I think China is now capitalist. (economic). Politically, they are totalitarian.

Yeah, let’s hope somebody is listening. China has all the leverage.

16. marisacat - 28 February 2007

I was just emailed a link to this diary… with an accompanying note alluding to this is why the Chicago Kossies don’t like unions..

fwiw. Interesting diary tho.

I know the Boyz think I read Dkos obsessively. LOL I don’t but I get sent enough… reading it would be same as eating rancid mayonnaise.

17. marisacat - 28 February 2007

via TO:

[U]niversity of Illinois Law Professor Francis Boyle described this Democratic maneuver as an attempt to act and sound like the Senate is taking action, without putting their political futures in jeopardy.

“The Senate has two options to end this war: cut funding or impeach Bush and Cheney,” Boyle said. Boyle also pointed to the precedent set by Nixon during Vietnam.

“Revoking the [Iraq] authorization would do nothing. Senator Biden knows this, he is a lawyer, he was around back then [referring to the Vietnam era].” According to Boyle, the Supreme Court ruled that Nixon’s insolence was not a violation of the law.

Over the weekend, Speaker Pelosi and Sen. Levin made statements that effectively assured that they are not going to attempt to cut funding for the war in Iraq, as Senator Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) had proposed earlier. Because the Senate Democrats cling to a razor-thin one vote majority, the threat of Senator Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) switching sides and caucusing with Republicans could hamper any attempt to cut funding. Lieberman told The New Yorker that a move by Democrats to cut funding for the Iraq occupation would be “very hurtful,” and that he’d be “deeply affected by it.”

weak weak weak.

18. marisacat - 28 February 2007


louisianagirl is going to be fun to watch. (This would be a match up to the Dkos diary on Daley, linked up thread.)

You go girl!

19. ms_xeno - 28 February 2007

Apropos of (mostly) nothing: I unearthed and posted the English translation for the Iva Bittova’ song I mentioned about three threads ago, because I was inspired by Tuston’s link to Archduke Dick and his narrow escape from death in Afghanistan:


There was hail and freezing rain waiting for me when I left work today. Oh, to be a WA employee, now that Spring is here !! :p Mcat, I hope your hill is still stable and all…. :/

20. marisacat - 28 February 2007

oh ms_xeno… i read that translation earlier… I saw an incoming linkage from your LJ site…

Grreat post!!

We are bitter cold, and off and on a very cold damp wind. Cuts right thru!

21. ms_xeno - 28 February 2007

8) Yeah, Bittova’ is amazing. Her stuff is generally expensive in the U.S., but I do have the Nonsuch CD that produced that song, and have downloaded some tracks from White Inferno.

It was sad reading that thread on Booman. Obama’s track resembles far too many others of his stripe: Ride the anti-war activist wing to success, then repudiate them soon after you get in. But repudiate them in a nice way. How long before he’s emulating Dean’s trajectory and appearing on the 700 Club ?

If I’d ever liked him to begin with, I’d be pretty damn crushed reading that thread.

22. marisacat - 28 February 2007

LOL I only opened this, as I thought it might be a snippet of a hint about the Libby jury.

Might as well laugh:

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:



23. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 February 2007

Ms xeno, I had to leave for work earlier, but have read your posts. Thanks for the link to SMBIV. Lol!

I think Paine may have a solution re with-holding the vote. I’d like to know more about that and how it might work.

I see Booman was here for a visit. I though he came over to apologize for falsely accusing Marisacat of outing DD. But, alas, it was not to be. Better to attribute some more imaginary, thought crimes to someone over whom the boyz have no control. They really do make stuff up as they go along!

No verdict in the Libby trial yet. Don’t know what that means but I think they have several counts to conside so it’s to be expected it would take time, I suppose. There are only eleven jurors now. I wonder if that would be grounds for an appeal should there be guilty verdicts?

Interesting posts about China and the sudden willingness of the Bush administration to sit down and talk to the ‘enemy’.

24. liberalcatnip - 28 February 2007

China is very heavily invested in our oil sands here in Alberta as well while the US government has been pushing to have the oil sands producing 5 times what they are now – environmental standards be damned.

Here’s our boneheaded new premier:

Last week, Mr. Stelmach said in a Calgary speech that “green politics are as much about emotion as they are about science.”

Looks like Bushco will get what it wants because Stelmach has absolutely no plans to slow down the development.

/oil politics

25. the paine - 28 February 2007

boy do i love this shit

mcat why can’t i have a piece of this grapes of wrathbone
happen against me??

i only get taunts because i line brake dance
but you get these boiler makers

chugging over here
its so perfect i hesitate to believe its really the boo boos
they claim to be

there id’s are wailing
thru this denial resistence back churn

“out me mcat out me “

26. marisacat - 28 February 2007

LOL.. oh that made me laugh.

Faster Pussy Cat! OUt me! I beg you!

I laughed so hard I woke the real cat…

27. liberalcatnip - 28 February 2007


With a mixture of pride and remorse, I have a confession: I am the author of the Democratic Party’s “slow-bleed strategy” for ending the war in Iraq.
I had nothing to do with the details of the plan that Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) floated two weeks ago. His plan was crafted to use the appropriations process to limit President Bush’s options for mobilizing more forces in Iraq, while trying to protect Democrats from the accusation that they were abandoning troops in the field. As it happens, Murtha’s idea is itself bleeding support, hit by a barrage of denunciations from people who say it does indeed amount to abandoning the troops.

In retrospect, it probably has already occurred to Murtha and his supporters that from a public relations perspective, “slow-bleed” was not the most winning description. How could they have been so stupid?

That’s where I come in. “Slow bleed” is my phrase. Murtha had nothing to do with it. Neither did John Bresnahan, the reporter whose name was on the Politico story in which the “slow-bleed strategy” made its debut…

28. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 February 2007

Lol, the paine, but if we’re not talking about them, they feel unloved! Didn’t you know that they want to be ‘bad asses’? They give lessons on how to be thugs, on how to use ‘fuck’ and ‘asshole’ (well, unless you’re Opol of course lol) ’cause that means you’re ‘tough’. Insulting people, the big boys have concluded, means they are people to be reckoned with! – rotlf! Well, at least they are entertaining, but having seen ‘bad-ass’ kos on tv being eviscerated by, of all people, arch-wimp and woman abuser, John Fund, well, I’m not impressed, is all I can say.

Catnip, but we have a Democratic majority. Surely there is something we can do about this?

This story is getting hardly any mention in the msm but should be raising red flags all over the place.

Political interference alleged in sacking of a U.S. attorney

Democrats in both the House of Representatives and the Senate vowed to hold a new round of hearings to determine if partisan politics played a role in the firings of eight U.S. attorneys across the country. The House is set to vote Thursday on whether to issue subpoenas to four of the prosecutors. The Senate Judiciary Committee plans to ask the U.S. attorneys to testify voluntarily before it decides whether to subpoena them.

The controversy flared up early Wednesday afternoon after David Iglesias, the departing U.S. attorney from New Mexico, told McClatchy Newspapers that he believes he was forced out because he refused to speed up an indictment of local Democrats a month before November’s congressional elections.

Iglesias said that two members of Congress called separately in mid-October to inquire about the timing of a federal probe of a kickback scheme. They appeared eager, he said, for an indictment to be issued before the elections in order to benefit the Republicans. He refused to name the members of Congress because, he said, he feared retaliation.

Two months later, on Dec. 7, Iglesias became one of six U.S. attorneys who’ve been ordered to step down for what administration officials have called “performance-related issues.” Two other U.S. attorneys also were asked to resign.

Little by little the Bush administration is completing its political coup d’etat of the US. The vile Patriot Act, another bi-partisan sell-out of the Constitution, apparently has a clause that allows the Unitary Executive to appoint US Attorneys without Congressional approval.

Rep. Conyers is holding hearings in March to look into this slow ‘Saturday Night Massacre’.

I read the link above regarding the only two possible means of ending the Iraq War which are Impeachment and/or defunding, neither of which are ‘on the table’ for this Congress. And both of which have been advocated by the ‘people’ but not the ‘liberal blogs’. And they wonder why Reid’s numbers have dropped so dramatically.

John Dean suggested impeaching the lower echelons first, ie, Gonzales, Cheney and others. This should not be difficult to do considering the evidence and the unpopularity of both of these criminals. Yet, so far, there seems to be no inclination to do so among our Democratic Majority.

29. liberalcatnip - 28 February 2007

Catnip, but we have a Democratic majority. Surely there is something we can do about this?

Get right over here and clean off my keyboard! lol

And stop calling me “surely”.

30. marisacat - 28 February 2007

I have, for some years, been saying we are “post coup” (that would be the Republicans) and “post collapse” (yup, those are the Democrats).

31. ms_xeno - 28 February 2007

Oh, c’mon, catnip. The U.S. can’t have all the jaggoffs elected in our own borders. It’s your duty as World Citizens to keep at least a few of them for yourselves. Hey, you’ve weathered Conrad Black all right, haven’t you ? :p

Seriously, am I having a denser-than-average evening, or is the Premier sitting on a huge surplus of funds while the social programs in the province are on the verge of “collapse.” That has a familiar ring to it, somehow… :/

32. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 February 2007

Lol, sorry about the keyboard, catnip – couldn’t resist.

But reading comments re these various crimes, on blogs all over the Internet, it’s clear that the people are not buying the excuses as to why we cannot Impeach these criminals. Only the big blogs are left, trying to excuse the removal of the only tool there is to stop them. They were brutal on dk in attempting to stop all talk of impeachment.

Check out the comments here on TPM on the purging of US Attorneys:

Purged Prosecutor: “I Didn’t Play Ball”

Wow, McClatchy drops a bomb today with their interview of U.S. Attorney for New Mexico David Iglesias.

Iglesias, whose last day on the job is today, says that two members of Congress called shortly before the 2006 election to push him on details related to his investigation of a state Democrat. Because he refused to be pressured to indict the Dem before the election, Iglesias says, he got the axe: “I believe that because I didn’t play ball, so to speak, I was asked to resign.” Iglesias told McClatchy that “the two members of Congress not only contacted him directly but also proceeded to try to wrest details about the case from him.”

A member of Congress directly contacting a U.S. Attorney is a no-no, especially in cases as sensitive as the one at hand. ” Congressional questions about ongoing cases are supposed to go through a special office within the Justice Department to avoid the appearance of impropriety,” McClatchy reports. Iglesias says that he was “appalled by the inappropriateness of those contacts.”

So, finally one of the ousted US Attorneys tells the public his firing was politically motivated and also reveals what amounts to a crime. The two Repubs who contacted him need to be identified. And Schumer, for once, seems to be really pushing this. Unless it’s just more bluster on his part.

Catnip, on that Politico story, I don’t believe the American people see Murtha’s plan as ‘not supporting the troops’. This is from the usual inside DC crowd. They people want this war ended by a huge margin. The only people concerned about semantics are those who support this war. More distraction.

33. marisacat - 28 February 2007

b-b-b-b-b-but… DifI was supposed to be “taking care of the” US Attys issues. I am sure when the Judiciary had a hearing last month (Jan.) that i Read that on the blahgs!

34. arcturus1 - 28 February 2007

no url handy (distant cuz of john):

Ousted U.S. attorney blames policy disputes with bosses
Billy House and Dennis Wagner
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 10, 2007 12:00 AM

Former U.S. Attorney for Arizona Paul Charlton said Friday that he left office in January for “principled reasons, not performance issues,” as a deputy attorney general suggested this week.

Charlton, who was one of six top federal prosecutors across the country forced to resign, said there had been “policy disputes” with his Justice Department higher-ups. Charlton spoke to The Arizona Republic on Friday in his first public comments since being asked to step down.

Although Charlton declined to elaborate, two sources said a main disagreement between Charlton and officials in Washington centered on when to seek the death penalty in federal murder cases.

As a U.S attorney, Charlton has pursed the death penalty in some cases. But his insistence on determining whether to push for capital punishment on a case-by-case basis clashed on at least two instances with a Justice Department effort to centralize decisions nationally and to seek the death penalty in a uniform way.

….. Wyn Hornbuckle, a spokesman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Arizona, said there has been only one person sentenced under the Federal Death Penalty Act in Arizona. Lezmond Charles Mitchell, 25, is being held at the Special Confinement Unit in Terre Haute, Ind., one of 44 inmates there facing execution.

….. Mitchell is reportedly the first and only Native American facing federal execution. The Navajo Nation has criticized his sentence, which is scheduled for appeal Thursday in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Hornbuckle said federal prosecutors are seeking the death penalty against Jose Rios Rico, who faces trial for murder during a drug-trafficking crime, as well as numerous other felony offenses related to meth deals.

In one case, four members of the New Mexican Mafia, or New Eme, faced execution for murder and other crimes. The defendants, including brothers Luis and Felipe Cisneros, accepted last-minute plea bargains. Three received life sentences; the fourth got 16 years.

Larry Hammond, a Phoenix attorney who represented Felipe Cisneros, said Charlton was an “honest broker” in the case, deciding to give up capital punishment because the government would have faced an expensive six-month trial with severe effect on victims and an unknown verdict.

“It was true that, for a long time, main Justice was not prepared to go along” with the plea deal, Hammond said, adding that authorities in Washington, D.C., finally relented.

Under Charlton’s administration, several other death-penalty actions were initiated but later dropped.

35. ms_xeno - 28 February 2007

“Forced to resign” is probably not, in the technical sense, an Orwellian term. But it should be. :/

36. supervixen - 28 February 2007

Hi everyone, I’m back from vacation and catching up on stuff. I missed you guys. Thanks for keeping it real. Literally. Reading through the past several days worth of Marisa’s posts and the commentary thereon filled me in on world news far more than any other news outlet has. I never watch Fox News or CNN, but when we were waiting in airport lounges I was exposed to quite a lot of it. I can’t BELIEVE how horrible it is. On the day we left, the Anna Nicole thing was pumping at full throttle, so that’s all we saw, except for one woman “newscaster” saying something like “An 80-year-old woman has sex with a 10-year-old boy. How will she be punished? We’ll tell you more after this!” With a nasty smirk on her face. I have no idea what she was talking about.

Holy Jesus, what are these goddamn animals.

And Britney Spears shaved her head.


37. ms_xeno - 28 February 2007

I have the same feeling whenever I travel, SV. The “news” just… isn’t. Watching it is like knawing on a wax apple and trying to convince yourself that it’s a piece of fruit. >:

Welcome back.

38. ms_xeno - 28 February 2007
39. outofwater - 28 February 2007

Around 2003-4 we were in Mexico and it reminded me of our honeymoon in the late ‘80s when we were cautioned to say we were Canadian in Columbia. Really, how many Canadians can their be anyway?

I want another passport.

40. bayprairie - 28 February 2007

interesting series of comments by peeder on blogpac grants. here’s the beginning.

Congratulations (0.00 / 0)
on losing your independence.

(I think this is an even worse development for the “blogosphere” than Townhouse.)
by: peeder @ Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 18:16:18 PM PST

And for those out of the in group
“Townhouse” is a private backchannel established by the “Big Boys of Blogging” where they get to coordinate strategy and message or gossip or who knows what (Think they’d let me near such a thing?). There is an absolute code of silence about what is posted there.

It is the very antithesis of everything that makes the blogs powerful: everything being out in the open, free for all to independently examine and comment upon.

Now they’re being so crass as to hand out little stacks of $20’s to their acceptable aldermen. The “machine” accusations are getting further from canards hourly.

This is just typical self-indulgent myopia on the part of the people responsible, those more equal than others. They don’t see what makes this medium vital and are now folding it back into existing apparat.
by: peeder @ Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 18:23:54 PM PST


::Zzzzzz:: I’m sorry. I nodded off. Did you get to the part where I’m evil?
by: Carnacki @ Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 18:40:09 PM PST

41. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 February 2007

hey all, my latest variation on one of my usual themes includes some thoughts about Hedge’s latest Truthdig about the unreasonable Mr. N.

42. marisacat - 28 February 2007

on our local news tonight it was reported that San Francisco …international tourism is down. WE lost ELEVEN percent of German tourists… and THIRTY percent of French tourists.

They (ABC affiliate) took camera crews downtown to Union Sq, to the Stockton St shops (some of the highest retail rents in the nation, it competes with a few blocks of Madison Ave) and people (Swiss, German and hmm I think a French man) said,

well, we came one more time, but we don’t feel welcomed at customs amd immigration. It is very unpleasant. The photos, the questions, the examination… we might not bother again.

43. marisacat - 28 February 2007

yes they handed out their blogpac grants today.

And some grants are so the blogs chosen can step right up to……………


A COMMUNITY PLATFORM. the 180 bucks being exactly what a one year of hosting is at SOAPBLOX!!


Scream for joy! check for blood letting!

44. missdevore - 28 February 2007

welcome back svix!

all-I was unwittingly introduced to a new word yesterday: a young woman described her self, in writing, as “velumptuous”

I believe it is a trailer version of voluptuous.

45. liberalcatnip - 28 February 2007

yes, welcome back vixenwoman!

Seriously, am I having a denser-than-average evening, or is the Premier sitting on a huge surplus of funds while the social programs in the province are on the verge of “collapse.”

I live in fucking conservative hell as one of the “have-nots” due to illness. This gov’t functions for one reason only: to make money. Last year’s budget surplus: $8.7 billion. This year’s: $7 billion. You’d think that people wouldn’t be sleeping out in the streets here, right? Or that people wouldn’t have to rely on food banks. Nope. We’re just the very model of Bush-style compassionate conservatism – all talk, no action. These oil booms literally kill people off. It’s survival of the fittest and richest.

Don’t even get me started…

46. liberalcatnip - 28 February 2007

I guess Carnacki was rewarded for all of that so-called heavy lifting.

I’d already forgotten about Townhouse… or should we call it Penthouse?

47. marisacat - 28 February 2007

a west va blog was selected (the announce diary at Mydd has slipped away, but htere is this notice at the WV blog a month ago, by the way, I notice flipping thru their Jan postings that Carnacki posts there… LOL)

they are renamed, “WV Blue” (what else!) to become community blog with diaries, etc., etc.

oh and they went from around 70 a day to around traffic of 100 a day, they say in the january posting.

Soon to be much much more with the franchise… LOL

48. liberalcatnip - 28 February 2007

Okay. Can someone explain to me now why Carnacki’s site is getting money for hosting costs(?) when it’s parked on Blogger which is free? Or is that just Dorito money they’re getting?

49. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 February 2007

Ms xeno, you are a FREEPER!! signed, cookiecrumbler, a loyal Kossack Lol!

Welcome back, SV – I haven’t watched news on tv since last year. That’s what the Internet is supposed to be, the alternative media.

I was thinking of how much people accomplished, using it as a means of communication, before the advent of the big blogs like DK. It was incredible really, the coordination of groups across the globe. It was the biggest ever world-wide, anti-war demonstration before the Iraq war.

I was asked to live-blog events in different countries that day (we were in touch with people in countries who reported on their activities). It was amazing, the cooperation, the lack of any personal ambitions, or cult-like personalities. Millions of people came together from as far away as African, to try to stop this war.

It didn’t succeed in stopping the war, but the next step was to try to organize national strikes, boycotts etc which could have been done, imo. But then things seemed to change. Still, we could get back to using it for that type of organization again – we got diverted (and fooled) temporarily by the emergence of the ‘for-profit’ blogs’.

Peeder is right – I’ve taken the Ohio blogs off my list of blogs to check re election fraud news. Can’t trust them anymore now. We could have our own Secret List. Lol, not that there’s anything we would need to hide. I wonder what they are hiding. Why the need for secrecy –

There are more of us than there are of them. And although they totally disrespect members of these blogs (if you’re foolish enough to stay around) they need us way more than we need them. It’s a big internet out there.

I’m trying to think of one positive result of these ‘big blogs’ other than to protect politicians from criticism. I can’t think of a thing. The shredding of the constitution goes on unabated, both wars are escalating, while a third is in the works. Congress is sitting on its hands and blahhhgers are busy talking about, well, themselves!

‘velumptous’ – is that the female version of ‘luscious vagina’?

Marisacat, I have read that tourism is down by 17% nationally. I know people in Europe and Canada who will not travel to the US anymore. For the reasons those tourists just gave. Maybe in the end, we will be saved by tourists. When it really begins to cost them money, they’ll leave little old ladies alone again.

50. missdevore - 28 February 2007

I dunno. I think Carnacki is coming from a far different place than peeder. Geographically and otherwise.

And I don’t sense either of them complicit in a BBB way.

at any rate, I’m glad to have a painting class that sucks a lot of things out of my mind. and replaces them with considerations that are novel and wherein no species is harmed.

51. liberalcatnip - 28 February 2007

You don’t know about our secret list?



52. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 February 2007

Made a mess of that post, sorry.

So, that explains why Carnacki suddenly turned on Opol! Now it all makes sense – they sell out for so little!

53. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 February 2007

I don’t think Americans, outside of NYC and SF and FL, give a fuck about tourists. I think they hate tourists, don’t want to deal with them. I think we like our ignorance and xenophobia and fortress “merikkka.

54. marisacat - 28 February 2007

oh my German Godmother made her last trip the year prior to 9/11. She had hated the rudenss at Customs and Immigration fro years. Married to an American for 40 years, holding a Green Card, receiving cheques fr both Soc Security systems, Germany and USA.. and always asked why she had not become a citizen.

LOL a five ft tall white German woman. We have heard enough stories about what they do to the “lesser mortals” …

except for our friends the bin laden family. And the other assorted “friends”.


catnip, well it sounds like WV Blue is going to Soapblox… whihc is the fit for the grant. Hosting is 180 a year.

And I noticed otnight that Swing St Project (SSP) is a soapblox site.


55. marisacat - 28 February 2007

oh Carnacki is a long time denizen of the Pastor Dan collection plate homilies.

That is a very self serving thread to his whining diary.

56. liberalcatnip - 28 February 2007

catnip, well it sounds like WV Blue is going to Soapblox… whihc is the fit for the grant. Hosting is 180 a year.

I see. I’m with peeder on this one though. You’d think they could ask for donations, take in their beer cans or go panhandling for that amount. In politics, appearances are everything and although they claim “no strings attached”, it doesn’t look that way.

On the other hand, maybe I should find a Pac Pimp too so I can redecorate at my place.

57. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 February 2007

Okay, I knew it! What do I have to do to get on the list? Who do I have to suck up to? lol!

Mitm, that is a great post! I regret that I did go along with the ABB mantra in 2004 an compromised in 2006 also. But Nader is right, it’s becoming more and more apparent. I would like to see that movie. I never did understand the vitriol towards him. But I didn’t understand a lot over the past few years.

This may be the twilight of American democracy.
And it is better to stand up and fight, even in vain, than not to fight at all.

Yes, no more ‘pragmatism’ for me –

58. missdevore - 28 February 2007

as usual, I am coming from my own mental leotard place.

59. marisacat - 28 February 2007

oh catnip, I was clear over the internal (tho public) debate that Buckeye State Blog went thru:

Pass the hat, if it means staying in dependent. Which the bulk of BSB thread commemters also supported.

LOL these blogs want a daddy. And they are willing for it to be Kos. Well Kos + The Boyz.

60. liberalcatnip - 28 February 2007

Okay, I knew it! What do I have to do to get on the list? Who do I have to suck up to? lol!

The first rule about the list is that we don’t talk about the list.

I’m being extraordinarily rendered to some shady bar in the Bronx as we speak…

61. Ezekiel - 28 February 2007

This from a Scott Ritter interview on Antiwar Radio:

Congress, idiots that they are, have abrogated any constitutional responsibility when they passed these ridiculous war powers resolutions in 2001 – 2002. Instead of keeping the verbiage in these resolutions specific to the task at hand, they, in their patriotic fervor, have pretty much given the President a blank check to do whatever he wishes. Today, having rubber stamped the President’s statements regarding the threat posed by Iran, who in Congress is standing up to challenge the President’s assertions about Iran’s nuclear weapons program? Hardly anybody. Practically nobody of stature. Not a single one of the would be Presidential candidates. In fact, they’ve all been going overboard to embrace Iran as a threat worthy of all options remaining on the table, to paraphrase Hillary Rodham Clinton. Congress is trapped. The international community is trapped and now it’s just a matter of the Bush administration picking the time and place of the fight.

What I find most upsetting about Ritter’s read is that it’s not just the U. S. Congress that is accompany this reprise of “Let’s Go to War,” but the international community, especially the Permanent Five. Viewed this way, Russia and China are playing the same game as the Dems in Congress, merely pretending to oppose the American game plan.

Their long run plan? Hasten the U. S.’s self-destruction?

What’s your phrase, Mcat? Suicide by President?

62. ms_xeno - 28 February 2007

catnip, I’m sorry. 😦

Also, SB, I’m very worried about the Kozzies having found me out. Do you think they’ll tell mr_xeno (aka Varro on Kos) that he’s mated to a Freeper ? I keep MEANING to tell him, but…

[crawls under the coffee table to hide]

63. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 February 2007

thanx sabrina

I went along in ’04, as there wasn’t an alternative that year, Cobb kinda sucked and WI could have gone either way. I’m not going to do it again, even if I have to write in Hunter S. Thompson’s corpse.

64. marisacat - 28 February 2007

LOL yeah suicide by president.

And agree on The Permanent 5. Plus inertia and passive aggressive is good at times, I am sure they think that.

Let us just dissolve in a hail of fire and brimstone.

Jesus Saves! In neon… with the face of W.

Something like that.

65. liberalcatnip - 28 February 2007

That’s okay, ms xeno. I always wanted to see the Big Apple. 😉

66. bayprairie - 28 February 2007

catnippe said

You’d think they could ask for donations, take in their beer cans or go panhandling for that amount.

does PA do the nickel deposit thingie on bottle returns? i bet those PA boys could do some serious blaagh funding if they’d collect all those empties.

oh, what am i thinking. they prolly drink canned beer.

unless someone else is paying!

67. marisacat - 28 February 2007

ms_xeno… not sure if you noticed, but Martin from BMT answered your questions about his opinions on voting/third party issues in the previous thread.


68. D. Throat - 28 February 2007

I have read that tourism is down by 17% nationally. I know people in Europe and Canada who will not travel to the US anymore.

It is not just tourist… many European businesses are refusing to meet in the US due to the brutal customs regulations and invasion of privacy. All bank account and credit card information must be given to US athorities if you enter the US. It was uncovered that the US was obtaining this information illegally… now the EC has now allowed for this and other information to be handed over.

The EU gave in to the American demand after intense pressure and threats that planes would be turned back if details were not available.

Under a deal agreed yesterday, the EU is to sweep away a series of bureaucratic hurdles US officials needed to clear before they could access “passenger name record” information, which includes credit card details, full names and e-mail addresses.

Washington had previously threatened to take away landing rights from European airlines that did not comply and to fine them thousands of pounds per passenger.

American authorities ask airlines for data including passengers’ names, birthdays, addresses, sex, phone numbers, e-mail addresses, credit card details, frequent flyer numbers, seat assignments, passport numbers, countries of issue and nationalities.

All data must be in US hands within 15 minutes of take-off. The scramble to draw up a new deal was triggered this summer by the European Parliament, which challenged the legal basis for an agreement reached in 2004.

69. supervixen - 28 February 2007

OK, so where are we having the Anti Yearly Kos “Convention”? My suggestion: In New Orleans.

70. marisacat - 28 February 2007

well we used to have two daily Air France direct flights from SFO to CGI… now it is one. Aside from United and feeder flights to the Delta flights from the South to Paris…

America has pushed every one away but their horror-friends. Their rendition partners, their coalition of the Billing. Or waht ever they are.

71. liberalcatnip - 28 February 2007

OK, so where are we having the Anti Yearly Kos “Convention”? My suggestion: In New Orleans.

OK, who’s paying for me to go? (Isn’t that how these things work?)

72. supervixen - 28 February 2007

I love peeder:


I can truly trust you to assess the hand that feeds you (11.00 / 1)

Send back the money. Put up your own donation box. If you can’t get $180 in donations over the course of a year, can you do anything?

Decentralize this shit. We already have centralized message management. We’re supposed to be the fucking antidote.

by: peeder @ Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 18:35:19 PM PST

73. D. Throat - 28 February 2007

A while back Carnacki came down hard on the BBB, he a brief moment of lucidity… then suddenly backtracked and started to carry their water AGAIN… same thing with Eugene… he wrote the best review of Crashing the Gates… but now he is in the “town house” and on a BlogPac BBB [Baby Box Blogs] and moderates his views depending in where his happens to be writing at that moment… same goes for nonpartisan and the other little BBB Baby Box Blogs wanabes

74. marisacat - 28 February 2007

well readers at Buckeye wanted to contribute, but Jerid still went with the ‘WHo’s YOur Daddy’ system.

75. D. Throat - 28 February 2007

SV… notice who is backing up this shit… someone is sucking up to get out of the dog house and back into the Townhouse….

I have had my own doubts about the BLogPac grants.

But they’ve made a wise and wonderful choice in Carnacki, on many levels.

I trust Carnacki implicitly; thus, I’ll be very interested to watch this play out over the months and possibly years to come. If it works out, fabulous. If it doesn’t, I believe Carnacki will not hesitate to be one who comes forward and declares it.

yeah right… he will be there right behind Eugene and nonpartisan…

76. D. Throat - 28 February 2007

Jerid still went with the ‘WHo’s YOur Daddy’ system

Yeah.. that was surprising since it looked like 90% of his readers where against it. Now he has up an “attack” peice on Jerome Armstrong… I guess in an effort to win back some of his street cred as being independent… looks like the typical Democratic Kabuki

77. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 February 2007

I’m being extraordinarily rendered to some shady bar in the Bronx as we speak…

Okay, catnip, so do I need kneepads? And what color are they? Please don’t say orange cos nothing, not even getting on a secret list, could make me suck up to the resident thug over there – I don’t have the fortitude of the orange blog maids ….. 🙂

Ms xeno, one post over there and you will be called out and condemned as an evil freeper! Women with your spirit will not be tolerated! Your husband will have to ask Pastor Dan to start a thread where the faithful will pray for your redemption assuming he too is not condemned for his association with such an uppity woman. And …. that’s only half kidding btw!

You know, that’s a great idea, Supervixen – NOLA would be a great place for real Progressives to meet – it could be later, like in Dec. maybe. I like that idea – seriously! What should we call it?

Mitm, you’re welcome, I really liked it –

D. Throat, thanks for that info. I remember reading about this – what the hell are they doing to this country? And how many ‘terrorists’ have we caught so far? How many convictions? It’s a nightmare.

78. Sabrina Ballerina - 1 March 2007

Karma for Kerry? And one more opportunity for Democrats (now in the majority, don’t laugh, Catnip), to take a fucking stand! But will they?

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee held a hearing on Tuesday to consider the nomination of Sam Fox, a wealthy St. Louis businessman, to be the new U.S. Ambassador to Belgium. While it is not unusual for big political donors to be rewarded with ambassadorships — and Fox is a huge donor to all things Republican — what made everyone take note of this guy is that Fox gave a whopping $50,000 to help fund the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth smear campaign against John Kerry in 2004.

And in being questioned by the Senate panel yesterday, Fox had to face one of the senior members of that committee in… Senator John Kerry.

Major Swiftboat Donor to Kerry: ‘You’re a hero.’

Found this on Demoraticunderground. The thread has some of the transcript of the hearing. Dems have 11 members on the Committee, Repubs 10. This man is a scumbag and in no way should he be an Ambassador. I think we ought to call the Dems and let them know we are watching. There is simply no excuse for this nomination to pass. These are the Dems:

Nelson (FL)

Hagel is on the Committee also. This is a no-brainer. But Biden will slam him, then vote for him, I’m sure.

79. liberalcatnip - 1 March 2007

Okay, catnip, so do I need kneepads? And what color are they?

No kneepads necessary. Just don’t publicize the codeword: pro-indy.



80. Revisionist - 1 March 2007

Baby Boxes……………………

That reminds me of Wal-marts “Neighboorhood Markets”.

Wiki describes them thusly:

Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market is chain of grocery stores launched by Wal-Mart in 1998. These stores are designed to be the opposite of vastly larger superstores. These smaller stores are meant to “woo shoppers with easier parking, less crowded aisles and quicker checkout.”

The funniest thing I read to today was Carniki tooting his own horn about being the 4th most impactful diariest. I dont know how that rating was arrived at. Do they consider posting quantity or getting their pointless mojo. (I am at the point now that I only take sites seriously if they dont have any of the BS ratings. MLW is starting to annoy me with people putting out tip jars.)

81. Sabrina Ballerina - 1 March 2007

Sorry meant to include phone numbers:

As one DUer said:

Sink This Ambassadorship

Biden 202-224-5042
Dodd 202-224-2823
Kerry 202-224-2742
Feingold 202-224-5323
Boxer 202-224-3553
Nelson (FL) 202-224-5274
Obama 202-224-2854
Menendez 202-224-4744
Cardin 202-224-4524
Casey 202-224-6324
Webb 202-224-4024

Hagel 202-224-4224.

82. Revisionist - 1 March 2007

But Biden will slam him, then vote for him, I’m sure.

That appears to be the Democratic MO on everything

83. D. Throat - 1 March 2007

Well that didn’t take long … BSB kabuki…. Jerid has a “thank you” note on MyDD…

I guess to people like Booman…
Observation = Intimidation

I call it putting 2 and 2 together….Do people not read…. I mean this ain’t rocket science….

84. marisacat - 1 March 2007

bitch and capitulate… !

The one thing they have down pat.

85. D. Throat - 1 March 2007

Sabrina… I really have a problem with this… not you personally… but why on earth do we as voting Democrats have to call our Senators over something that should be a no brainer.… this is the basis of why we elect these shits in the first place… to REPRESENT us in Washington DC.

If you hire someone then have to spend everyday begging them to do their job even the most menial tasks…then it seems to me that we “hired” the wrong people. And that is what people like Booman and the BBB and bBB choose to ignore… we are electing the wrong people to represent us… there is no such thing as purity in this matter. One does not hire a plumber to be a brain surgeon…. no matter how bi-partisan they happen to be…. nor even a lab technician.

Garbage in = Garbage out

We get the Congress we elect not the one we hope for…

86. supervixen - 1 March 2007

Who cares who’s the ambassador to Belgium?

Nice job, I’d take it in a heartbeat.

87. liberalcatnip - 1 March 2007

This is interesting:

When we combined voters’ answers to the 14 issue questions to form a liberal-conservative scale (answers were divided into five equivalent categories based on overall liberalism vs. conservatism), 86 percent of Democratic voters were on the liberal side of the scale while 80 percent of Republican voters were on the conservative side. Only 10 percent of all voters were in the center. The visual representation of the nation’s voters isn’t a nicely shaped bell, with most voters in the moderate middle. It’s a sharp V.

The evidence from this survey isn’t surprising; nor are the findings new. For the past three decades, the major parties and the electorate have grown more divided — in what they think, where they live and how they vote. It may be comforting to believe our problems could be solved if only those vile politicians in Washington would learn to get along. The source of the country’s division, however, is nestled much closer to home.

Then why the hell are the so-called “netroots” supporting centrist candidates?

88. Sabrina Ballerina - 1 March 2007

D. Throat, I couldn’t agree more – and until the past few years, I never called my Rep. I assumed, as you just said, that s/he was doing a good job. But after the IWR, when my Senator, Hillary Clinton, voted for Bush’s war, I was stunned.

Then vote after vote, Dems voted with Republicans on key issues. I know it does no good to call them. They already have their votes designated. This man should not be an Ambassador. And you’re right, and I said so in one of my previous posts, this is a no-brainer. It is a test because there is nothing at stake with this vote. They could deny Bush for once with virtually no consequences. And that we have to wonder what they’ll do is testimony to the fact that we are not able to trust them to do the right thing, even on something like this.

No matter how anyone feels about Kerry the SBV did great harm to our electoral process with the help of the media. This is a chance to show that there are consequences for destroying the right of the people to know the truth and has really nothing to do with Kerry, but with how elections are conducted in this country. Lies and smears should have no place in the process.

SV, this guy donated a huge amount of money to the SBV and Bush is rewarding him for contributing to his election which was based on nothing but lies. It’s a chance for the Democrats for once, to take a stand on behalf of the voters. To say that they will not reward people who corrupt the electoral system. But I have little faith that they will.

89. D. Throat - 1 March 2007

Hear hear!!!!

I agree wholeheartedly…but I am just sick to death of having to petition and call Washington… to remind our elected officials to flush everytime they take a shit.

Yes… this is more than just an Ambassadorship… it would be the Democrats sanctioning “pay to play” and spoils to the winner and ethic be damned (not that this already exist)…

I say let the Dem confirm the bastard… and show their true colors of how weak and ON BOARD they are with the GOP agenda. Maybe if people get sick enough of not being represented they will think twice before voting.

I like to see the BBB and the bBB spin that pile of crap…

90. D. Throat - 1 March 2007

Also strategically the Dems could seriously dampen these ridiculous contributions to GOP 527 if the donors know that an ambassadorship or other highlevel position… is not a given.

Also Belgium is a big deal… it is the seat of the European Commission Parliament after all… a US ambassador is strategic to international negotiations… it is not like an ambassadorship in Tuvalu

91. Sabrina Ballerina - 1 March 2007

Yes… this is more than just an Ambassadorship… it would be the Democrats sanctioning “pay to play” and spoils to the winner and ethic be damned (not that this already exist)…

Exactly!! And there is absolutely no excuse for them this time. They have the votes. They excuse I get all the time for Dems not holding Bush accountable is ‘they don’t have the votes’. Well, they can’t use that excuse this time. It’s a clear winner for them and a blow to those who would subvert the electoral process.

Maybe we should not call them. Let’s see what they do. As you say, there is simply no way they can spin caving in to Bush on this.

Catnip, that is interesting info. So yes, why all this talk of targeting the mythical ‘middle’? Oh, and I won’t tell anyone that the secret codeword is pro-indy

Revisionist – ‘baby boxes’ – that describes it perfectly. If I were a member of any blog that went along with this, I would leave. They can no longer be trusted. As for the hit piece on Jerome Armstrong? They do that all the time on DK, attack someone they are ‘friends’ with.

The problem now is, whether he is sincere or not, he can no longer be trusted. I knew he would cave. It was obvious he was flattered. Weak egos are the destruction of many people. Hope he doesn’t live to regret it. As for Carnacki, you can tell when they are sucking up for something. I thought he was working towards the FP a little early when he went out of his way to attack Opol who he previously supported. They are so transparent. No one gives away money for free. There are always strings attached.

92. lucid - 1 March 2007

Hey SV – hey guys..I’ve been sparse too… busy as a motherfucker for good or ill [tax season and all – and a bunch of unexpexted projects in the studio].

But as like SV, I always come here at least once a day to folow links and read threads to keep up…

…just as an aside that Martin exchange was priceless, not to mention the ‘I’m not Delaware Dem – let’s report Mcat to the powas that be’ post which so warmed my heart…


Well – hey – you’ve got some stalkers! Not that you needed them.

But that’s what I love about marisacat – you keep on keepin’ on.

93. lucid - 1 March 2007

If my cat gives you the belly,
you better be in it
for the long haul.

Smooth muscles,
cheek bones,
the tussles with the ears.

Suckling the last nipple,
the only nipple,
searching for that nipple
of a shortened youth.

And struggling to find home.

[As an aside – this is a poem about my cat Gizmo, who was taken from weaning too soon – 5 days – and believes me to be his Mother – and tries to wean from me daily… then again… oh lord.]

94. lucid - 1 March 2007

Just curious – two of my comments didn’t post…

95. Madman in the Marketplace - 1 March 2007

It’s more than the Soapblox hosting, and the few coins that trickle in … they sadly sell their souls for ACCESS, or the illusion of access. The contacts from congressional staffers, the emails, the conference calls.

Seems silly, but I think that’s what it is.

96. aemd - 1 March 2007

Not silly. Many people lust after power and influence. I think that drive is greater than the drive for money/material goods. The need to influence and control your environment runs deep.

97. marisacat - 1 March 2007



and SORRY!

Your comments were lost in the spam file. Not sure why… it is not that smart, and it scanned them and whammo!

It sends me to spam periodically as well… 😉

98. ms_xeno - 1 March 2007

Mcat (#67) :

Sorry for wasting your bandwidth like that. Yeah, I really believe that a guy who’s whining about how “you WANT the GOP to WIN” or whatever is a sincere champion of electoral reform and 3rd Party access. D. Throat is correct: Booman is no idiot, but he must think that stragglers are, owing to the way he (non-)addresses our issues.

99. ms_xeno - 1 March 2007

Also, I admit it. Since I refuse to vote for a Big Two candidate ever again, why should I call them up to plead and beg for anything ? People do that when they think somebody might listen to them, and I long ago stopped expecting the majority of my elected officials to listen to me. All they ever do is grind out some form email and then use it as a conduit to spam me with solicitations for their b.s. campaigns, or puff-piece newsletters that greatly exaggerate their supposed “progressive” leanings while glossing over their party machine’s corruption. Non-partisans at the local level I’ll deal with, but the rest ? They can just go play in traffic so far as I’m concerned.

100. marisacat - 1 March 2007

and then to prove me right the spam filter sent my Hello! to lucid to the spam file!


101. ms_xeno - 1 March 2007


Ms xeno, one post over there and you will be called out and condemned as an evil freeper! Women with your spirit will not be tolerated! Your husband will have to ask Pastor Dan to start a thread where the faithful will pray for your redemption assuming he too is not condemned for his association with such an uppity woman. And …. that’s only half kidding btw!

Oh, no ! Will they bring– THE COMFY CHAIR ?!?!

So if we were to meet in NOLA, would we look for a local community repair group (ie– not affiliated with Clinton-BushCo or the Red Cross) or co-op to visit with for a spell ? That would rock.

102. outofwater - 1 March 2007

The market is taking quite a drop this morning. I don’t understand, yesterday they said the plunge was just a computer glitch. That was the truth, wasn’t it?

103. marisacat - 1 March 2007

New Thread:

American Raj

Sorry this one got so long…

104. marisacat - 1 March 2007

Oh too funny! Yes I can see a PD vigil for the soul of the wayward sister… LOL.. Leading the Koswhacks in praying for her soul, as the collection plate wafts thru the huddled teeming masses… Etc.


out of water, thanks for the tip, I had not paid attention to the markets this am. All the scurrying around they did to say it all was nothing…

It is always something!

105. JJB - 1 March 2007

Madman, re #53

DC certainly cares about tourists, so much so that for a year or so after 9/11, downtown hotels were laying off huge numbers of workers and offering ridiculous bargain rates on their rooms, which normally are in very high demand (DC has very few hotel rooms for a city this size due to a law which prohibits building anything taller than the Capitol Dome, i.e., more than 13 stories). And if Canadians do stop coming here, that will be very bad news in Virginia Beach, which gets so many Francophones that there’s a French-language welcome sign when you reach the southern side of the Chesapeake Bridge/Tunnel on Route 13.

I’m sure there are plenty of other places where foreign tourists add lots of dollars to the local economy.

Of course, our immigration people are notoriously surly. I remember them being so in the late 60s, when I was a teenager coming home from a pair of trips to Montreal with my parents and younger siblings. Several other trips I’ve made the last 10 years have convinced me that things are even worse now. And one of the least pleasant experiences I’ve had was with some extraordinarily rude idiots at the customs desk at the Montreal airport in late August 2001. I can only imagine what they’re like now. My other Canadian trips since then have had me crossing the border by car, where they aren’t any more pleasant, but lazier about hassling you.

After all the hubbub about yesterday RALLY ON WALL STREET!!!, I wonder how this AM’s nosedive will be reported by the MSM. As of a few minutes ago, the Dow was down 192 points.

106. marisacat - 1 March 2007

well I watched the US Mexico border militarise under Good Daddy Clinton.

I went twice a year for 5 years to the Mexican pharmacies in the 90s. For some of my mother’s drugs we saved about 70%. But I watched it change.

Chomsky is very clear that this was done as a part of NAFTA. They knew what was coming.

When I first went in ’93, you walked thru a large open room and of course Anglos were waved thru. A couple border police and not a high tension event. I saw pretty perfunctory examination of Mexican papers..

By the time I stopped going, the “cop” presence on an ordinary day was beefed up, the room now had multiple turnstiles, multiple glassed in stations where customs and immigration examined each person, asked a few questions etc., and your hand bags, shopping bags etc were all put thru ex-ray type examination.

And by then the “crossers” were being forced to the desert.. a far more dangerous crossing.

Big difference.

107. Maryscott O'Connor - 1 March 2007

D. Throat, you must be delusional.

SV… notice who is backing up this shit… someone is sucking up to get out of the dog house and back into the Townhouse….

First, if you think I’m STUPID enough to think there’s even a snowball’s chance in hell of ever reconciling with the BBB, then you REALLY think little of me.

Second, that’s not sucking up to the BBB, that’s expressing my admiration of CARNACKI. Big fucking difference. The BBB will see me sucking up to them the day Anna Nicole rises from the dead and lays hands on Britney, healing the baldness and bringing forth a full head of healthy, naturally blonde tresses.

You’re fucking LIBELING me at this point.

108. marisacat - 1 March 2007


I am laughing too hard….

109. marisacat - 1 March 2007

You’re fucking LIBELING me at this point.

Oops I read to the last line…

I say: judge Blahgs and their Baby Blahgs by the bad legal advice they seem to think is – god help them – real.

Much less of any value.

Least worldly, least sophisticated, most easily impressed people I have ever encountered.

110. JJB - 1 March 2007


Not as loud as I am.

First, if you think I’m STUPID enough to think there’s even a snowball’s chance in hell of ever reconciling with the BBB, then you REALLY think little of me.

This, from someone who still doesn’t realize what a disaster that WaPo article was for her and how stupid it was to allow that writer into her home to watch her pound away at the keyboard.

BTW, here is a definition of libel:

(a) written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression
(b)(1): a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt
(2): defamation [i.e., “to harm the reputation of by libel or slander”] of a person by written or representational means
(3): the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures
(4): the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel

Please explain to us just where D. Throat or any other person on this site has libeled you.

111. supervixen - 1 March 2007

Maryscott – you certainly did some lovely sucking up to Armando. In public, yet. It was embarrassing to watch.

112. arcturus1 - 1 March 2007

“Booman is no idiot, but he must think that stragglers are, owing to the way he (non-)addresses our issues.” – Ms X

yet still able to write gems of wisdom like this

“”We’ll never have the really left-wing government that many desire so long as the Constitution is unamended and dictates a two-party system.”

wonder when the 110 will investigate all those unconstituional elections that have been held . . .

113. D. Throat - 1 March 2007

Oh but wait…Mcat… gee this sounds LIBELOUS to me

I would rather shut down My Left Wing than see it devolve into another hate-filled daily gathering of angry, vicious, unforgiving and unforgiven people taking out their frustrations on other people. I have had enough of it to last a lifetime, and while there is nothing I can do about people at other sites — like marisacat, for instance, who has stated unequivocally that she has NO INTEREST in making peace, that she will say whatever she likes regardless of how it makes anyone else feel, and if people don’t like it they can go fuck themselves with sharp unsanitary kitchen implements.

That sort of cruel, spiteful, self-important bullshit will not fly around here. I’ve made several attempts to affect a truce with marisacat, but she’s HAPPY being enemies. Me, I don’t like it one bit. But I can accept it from her — that’s her site, and al I have to do is stop frequenting it and stop trying to talk to her as if she were a sentient, decent human being. Problem solved.

Why do people think we can’t read???

Problem solved.

… so … go away…

Believe it or not I am not Armando… so if you are looking for some post-abuse copulation … look elsewhere.

114. marisacat - 1 March 2007

msock.. please read the thread where Martin attempted his tired version of instruction.

he did not learn from the extended Delaware Dem circus exposition.

We even had LIVE bad legal advice, in the thread itself…

I doubt it would go better for you, spreading bad advice and tired invective… but hey, you’re an adult. Bad legal advice and all.

115. Maryscott O'Connor - 1 March 2007

You people are something else.

Supervixen — that’s called friendship. I know it’s difficult for you to reconcile your poisonous views of the monster you imagine him to be with the actual human being he is, but for me, it’s not at all. He loses his shit on a regular basis online, and often I’m caught in his blast radius — I’ve been known to do the same to him; without fail, we apologise to each other.

In case you hadn’t noticed, Armando has no “power” to speak of; sucing up to someone implies that the suckee has some value in terms of a power structure.

Thank you, JJB, for highlighting the EXACTLY appropriate phrases in the definitions of “Libel.” There has been no “just cause” in the verbal vivisectioning that goes on here. The impressions given of me HAVE, indeed, been UNJUSTLY unfavourable.

But then, of course none of the people in question would see it that way; you have your set ideas and opinions of me, and manage easily to turn aything I say or do into verification and confirmation of your conclusions.

The fact that none of you can see clearly (and it is obvious it is to any dispassionate observer) that you GET OFF on your vicious gossip and character assassination is not surprising. You see things exactly the way you wish to see them. In your jaundiced view, you are the good guys and everyone you disparage are the bad guys; you collect data as evidence of their guilt, the better to gather here and gloat, basking in your superiority and smirking at the inferior, pathetic attempts of the rest of us to manage our way through the messiness of it all.

The last time I witnessed such an appalling instance of a group of people attempting to raise themselves up by constantly cutting others down was in high school. But I saw them all at our 20th reunion this past August and even theyhave outgrown that bathetic need to assuage their insecurities with petty gossip and incessantly thinking and talking about the very people they supposedly consider beneath them.

For people who purportedly find the rest of us out here so amusingly ignorant, pathetic, corrupt and beneath your contempt, you all spend an awful lot of time thinking and talking about us.

Now THAT is embarrassing to watch.

And yes, Marisacat, I know — I can stop watching — and I am about to. Right now.

Good luck to you all; I hope you can eventually find some other way to entertain and comfort yourselves.

116. Maryscott O'Connor - 1 March 2007

JJB, I wrote that knowing full well one or more of you would come along, trolling MLW for more ammunition.

And there you are. Like clockwork.

117. marisacat - 1 March 2007

Oh now you just must stop!
Please stop being fodder! but then life would be over for … well a lot of Koswhacks. Something i never was. But lord the lot of you have clasped that idiocy to your heaving bosoms.

Thank you, JJB, for highlighting the EXACTLY appropriate phrases in the definitions of “Libel.” There has been no “just cause” in the verbal vivisectioning that goes on here. The impressions given of me HAVE, indeed, been UNJUSTLY unfavourable.

Msock. A lot of people are laughing.

if you were not addicted to your own tired rants you would indeed go away.

Give it a whirl.

118. D. Throat - 1 March 2007

Speaking of LAWYERS and BBB… have you seen the shit that Adam B came up with… talk about moving the Overton Window… towards the bigoted far right …. it is a blatant joke to consider this asshole anywhere near progressive…

This is the jist of the diary:

The Christian Right is going to learn a hard lesson. When it’s legal to refuse treatment based on a Doctors beliefs, they themselves could be denied.

Meet Dr. Gary Merrill, a pediatrician who refused to treat a young patient because her mother had tattoos.

That’s right. Tattoos. They offend his Christian beliefs and he wants to make sure his practice has the right Christian atmosphere. He also won’t treat you, or your family, if you have body piercings or chew gum in his waiting room. And..this is all legal according to the AMA.

and how does the lawyer to the biggest LIBERAL blog in the whole wide world respond…?

Just to push you an inch (6+ / 0-)

What if mom’s tattoo were of a swastika, and the doctor, whose parents died in the Holocaust, refused to treat the patient?

this is my blog. Warning: 99% apolitical.

by Adam B on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:28:41 AM PST

Totally immaterial (19+ / 0-)

after all, it’s the child that needs treatment.

Why do you ask? Would that be acceptable to you?

by xyz on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:32:55 AM PST

[ Parent ]

Dunno what medical ethics are (0 / 0)

Let’s suppose the patient himself had a swastika. I’d like to believe the line is “if it’s an emergency, you treat”, but if not…

this is my blog. Warning: 99% apolitical.

by Adam B on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:39:12 AM PST

[ Parent ]
All I can hope is (5+ / 0-)

that you are not a doctor, since you don’t know the meaning of the Hippocratic oath.

by xyz on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:40:33 AM PST

[ Parent ]
I’m not. (0 / 0)

Show me where the Oath requires treating all non-emergency patients.

this is my blog. Warning: 99% apolitical.

by Adam B on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:49:10 AM PST

[ Parent ]


well, let’s push it further. what if the child (8+ / 0-)

then died on the sidewalk right in front of this shallow fool’s office? that is more relevant.

by stodghie on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:36:05 AM PST

[ Parent ]

It appears that Adam (0 / 0)

believes in collective punishment.

by xyz on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:38:47 AM PST

[ Parent ]
Geez. I asked a question. (2+ / 0-)

That doesn’t mean you can assume how I’d answer it, though it is ironic that you’d accuse of “collective punishment” someone who invoked a hypo involving someone who believed that Jews, homosexuals, et al deserved collective punishment.

this is my blog. Warning: 99% apolitical.

by Adam B on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:40:50 AM PST

[ Parent ]
Well, your (0 / 0)

answer to my question above appears to prove my assumption, doesn’t it?

Irony abounds.

by xyz on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:43:34 AM PST

[ Parent ]
no, it doesn’t (2+ / 0-)

I’m not really offering any opinion here; I’m just asking questions to suss out the principles underlying your instincts.

this is my blog. Warning: 99% apolitical.

by Adam B on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:50:14 AM PST

[ Parent ]
Sure ya did (0 / 0)

with your ‘well, if it wasn’t an emergency…..’

by xyz on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 07:09:51 AM PST

[ Parent ]

How is this related to the health of the child? (5+ / 0-)

Because that kid sure as hell didn’t choose to be sick. Since when did collective punishment become apropos in the doctor’s office?

…individual doubt…is just one thing i’ve found…

by Diaries on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:38:50 AM PST

[ Parent ]

I think there may be degrees (1+ / 0-)

Again, not knowing anything about medical ethics, but can’t we distinguish emergency care needs from cases in which other treatment is readily available? As an attorney, I can refuse a client for all sorts of reasons.

this is my blog. Warning: 99% apolitical.

by Adam B on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:44:21 AM PST

[ Parent ]
But Adam… (10+ / 0-)

Look at the little boy who died from a toothache. Without even looking at the child how can they tell if it’s an emergency or not?

by MsLibrarian on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:46:23 AM PST

[ Parent ]
to be sure (1+ / 0-)

I don’t believe one should be able to decline treatment unless one can confirm that another doctor will treat the patient.

this is my blog. Warning: 99% apolitical.

by Adam B on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 06:51:08 AM PST

[ Parent ]

BTW… if you read the actual article (most Kossie’s never click thru).. you will see that:

Childress’ insurance company, Health Net of California, who referred her to Merrill, said in a statement: “We provide our customers with a wide breadth of doctors that meet certain medical quality standards … If a customer doesn’t feel comfortable with a particular physician, it is our responsibility to provide that customer with access to another doctor who does meet their needs.”

So the real argument is not spreading social bigotry which Adam B is “okay with”… but ruling that insurance companies can not refer their clients to bigoted doctors. If there is list of prequalified doctors then those doctors are obligated to serve all patients or be removed from the insurance company referral lists.

119. marisacat - 1 March 2007

Jesus. has any of them ever met a REAL, live, functioning atty? Paid the fees charged by a real live functioning atty?

One who does more than troll for the big mainland cases to get a local timestamp in the Carib? OR troll for DWI/DUI cases having failed a critical bar (DE)??

Apaprently not. Always in the gutter wtih the political operatives scrabbling around to make a third tier law school matter… or on their third law firm in 10 years.. (that was hoot off one bio)…. or drunk and pasted to their keyboard..

A sad life.

I don’t care whether you read here or not Msock.

120. Maryscott O'Connor - 1 March 2007

OKay, MArisacat. that was supposed to be my last post, but THIS one is definitely it.

You are a seriously cruel person; I don’t know what it is that you get out of mocking me and causing me pain, but it’s cruel, whatever it is.

I’d advise you to get some help, but my suspicion is that you’re a sociopath. The only adult people I’ve ever known who got off on being deliberately, viciously cruel were sociopaths. You fit the bill.

As do a few of your more regular minions.


121. D. Throat - 1 March 2007

Truth hurts sweetie.

122. marisacat - 1 March 2007

oh please. Go get ready for your next self inflicted close-up.

Some emotional skin rip is just around the corner, some pathetic beg to be put back together.

It was tired years ago… but I suspect it is what you have to offer.

As I said, I am disinterested in your opinions. Of me or anything else. Wapo got you right. Even if you could not see it..

Try and focus that I never even bothered to register for your site.

123. D. Throat - 1 March 2007

Mcat remind me never to muss up your fur 😉

124. outofwater - 1 March 2007

msoc-Trust me on this, Armando is not your, or anyone’s, friend he lacks the capacity for such a relationship. It is a sad indictment about you that you’ve mistaken your pathological interaction with the man as a friendship.

It’s also a little strange that you went off the way you did about d.Throat’s comment. If the Boyz said they’d take you back if you’d only jump higher, you’d buy a trampoline. You must know that about yourself.

125. supervixen - 1 March 2007

No, Maryscott, I believe Armando is a human being. An abusive, lying, malicious, pathologically self-obsessed wretch of a human being.

The last time I witnessed such an appalling instance of a group of people attempting to raise themselves up by constantly cutting others down was in high school.

Not paying much attention at Daily Kos, are you?

I actually like you, Maryscott. I don’t believe you’re a mean person. But you’re seriously confused.

126. JJB - 1 March 2007


I can count the number of times I’ve been to My Left Whine in the last year on my fingers, and still have enough left over to send you the Universally Recognized Perform An Impossible Physical Act Gesture with both hands at once. It just so happens I live in Northern Virginia, get the WaPo delivered to my house, and was able to see the disastrous results of your encounter with that journalist without having to read about it on the Internet.

Speaking of said Universally Recognized Gesture, considered it given you.

127. supervixen - 1 March 2007

outofwater –

If the Boyz said they’d take you back if you’d only jump higher, you’d buy a trampoline. You must know that about yourself.

LOL!!! Nailed it.

MSOC isn’t the only one. Koslandia is alive with asskissers. O to touch the hem of His garment! O to bask in the warmth of the Big Orange Frathouse!

128. JJB - 1 March 2007


The last time I witnessed such an appalling instance of a group of people attempting to raise themselves up by constantly cutting others down was in high school. But I saw them all at our 20th reunion this past August and even theyhave outgrown that bathetic need to assuage their insecurities with petty gossip and incessantly thinking and talking about the very people they supposedly consider beneath them.

I think the word you’re looking for there is “pathetic.” Because the only thing “bathetic” (“insincere or overdone pathos”) in this comment thread are your own entries.

I think it’s long past time you got off the Internet and dealt with the myriad problems you obviously have.

129. marisacat - 1 March 2007

Well I just got an email, from a non-Caucasian, non-BBB, non Baby Blahgers – but a blogger!.. questioning, in part, why MLW stays in the [so wrongly named] Advertising Liberally. If the ruptures are so big, so deep, so real.

The email detailed the various prices for various ads.

Get real. Tied to them. As Kos planned it.. And tied to the abuse she regularly shows up for at Dkos.

Really, best not to volunteer to be a pinata.

If so, why doesn’t she drop out of the ad liberally group.

This is just her site:

Middle left right columns $150 (1 ad running)
Premium Upper Right, Lower Left $175 (1 ad running)
Middle right left columns (reserved through 2007/03/06) $150 (2 ads running)
Premium Upper Left, Lower Right $175 (1 ad running)

130. marisacat - 1 March 2007

Notice to DavidByron:

Go post at MLW. Or where ever.

131. JJB - 1 March 2007


I followed the link in #109 and found this gem:

[F]or reasons which frankly escape me, the blogger known as Shockwave is producing a documentary about me. He hired my husband to operate the camera, which worked out well for me AND him, because I got to have my spousal unit with me in Vegas — and because I couldn’t intimidate Adam the way I probably could have anyone else… Suffice to say there is some footage of me I’d rather not have been shot.

Can’t wait to see the end result of that experiment in cinema verite at my local multiplex. Of course, never letting it see the light of day would be a laudable act of cinema charite.

Speaking of which, I think what the world really needs is a Bloggers Live Together In A Sumptious Dwelling They Could Never Afford Reality TV Show (“The Real World, Kosotopia”). You wouldn’t have to come up with phony, make-work jobs for them, they’ll just sit around the place, pound their laptops, and Go Postal on each other, link up/break up often enough to keep Bunim/Murray productions in marketable video for the next three centuries. I would guess that Armando will end up being even more notorious than Puck from the SF Real World. And what a great opportunity for LV to inflict his equally lovely personality and person on women condemned by contract to spend quality time with him!

132. marisacat - 1 March 2007

Some woman has to volunteer t be his “energetic girl”… LOL Banish the vision!

i watched a few episodes of an early one of those, as it was set in SF, in a building not far from where I lived on Russian Hill.

And then a later one, set in a passable mini-mansion out side of Paris.

But it has to ahve descended. Most things do…

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