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Fire fight 10 March 2007

Posted by marisacat in Europe, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Spain, WAR!.
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  FireinBaghdadMarch9′07

This was Photo of the Day yesterday at IraqSlogger… “Fire in Baghdad” March 9 ’07.  Fire fight on the ground, between unidentified groups…

Fire on the ground.. the Atocha bombs in Spain,  11 Marzo.  A still coherent people pulled together in less than 3 days, knew Aznar was lying to them that the bombs had been ETA separatists, voted Zapatero in… and the benefits, rooted in the democracy that followed Franco, broadened… Immediately Zapatero had a short date for withdrawal of Spanish forces from Iraq.  Within a brief few weeks Abu Ghraib broke, the country rose up in the spring with insurgents, native fighters, it does not matter who it was, the fighting was intense, in 80 towns and cities across Iraq (Martha Raddatz / ABC News). 

HuffPo

[R]eligion in Spain is mostly becoming tradition. People marry in churches because they are beautiful and full of history, not because they actually practice. Sunday church attendance is in the single digits. In this country, they still teach religion in most schools, but to most it is as if they were teaching Spanish history, the history of a country that used to be religious but it is not anymore. Paradoxically, the only religious group in Spain now are Muslim immigrants, whose views on society are similar to those of the Franco. Nudity for example was a big no no at that time and it continues to be so for Spanish Muslims. For others nudity is accepted. Spain´s leading newspapers and magazines frequently show nudity in a way that would not be acceptable in US publications. Nudist beaches and regular beaches are mostly mixed, and most people don´t mind.

In the meantime, Spain´s abandonment of religion has been accompanied by decades of tremendous economic and social development. Spain is now 10 times richer per capita than it was 3 decades ago. Cultural production is thriving and science which was mostly non existence after centuries of a tough ban on scientific research by the Catholic Church is now beginning to develop with the number of papers written and patents filed growing every year. During the last decade Spain has been the growth engine of the large countries in Europe. Indeed the economy grew so fast that Spain accepted 6% of its population in the form of immigrants in the last 5 years in order to cope with the labor shortages. [snip]

For horror – and counterpoint, this from Madman:

Here in America, a “Christian” land … you know, the faith that preaches about forgiveness and love … we have one of the most brutal and large, highly populated prison systems on the planet. We cram them in, provide minimal security, maybe use them to pick vegetables after we tire of exploiting migrant workers and lock THEM up. Hell, maybe even using convicted sex offenders to pick fruit (madman: and who, I ask, knows more about picking it when it’s ripe? Shame on me!).

With this snip from the extracted text from WRAL.com for Raleigh – Durham – Fayettevile NC:

The proposal approved by the Senate Corrections and Penology Subcommittee would set up a volunteer donor program in prisons to teach inmates about the need for donors. But lawmakers want legal advice before acting on a bill that would shave up to 180 days off a prison sentence for inmates who donate.

South Carolina advocates for organ donations said the incentive policy would be the first of its kind in the nation.

Federal law makes it illegal to give organ donors “valuable consideration.” Lawmakers want to know whether the term could apply to time off of prison sentences.

“We want to make this work, we really do,” said Republican Sen. John Hawkins. “But I want to make sure no one goes to jail for good intentions.”

Mary Jo Cagle, chief medical officer of Bon Secours St. Francis Health System in Greenville, urged senators to find an allowable incentive.

“We have a huge need for organs and bone marrow,” Cagle said. [snip]

hmmm when Madman sent his post to me, I stared at the name of Cagle’s hospital.  Surely a Catholic facility?

Why yes!  Indeedy! From an update Madman posted… I am thinking perhaps some free person, not incarcerated, not under desperate distress, can leave Dr Cagle a heart in the will… maybe some good Catholic could oblige…

Dr. Cagle WORKS AT A CATHOLIC HOSPITAL!!!

“At Bon Secours St. Francis Health System, our mission as a community of caregivers is to bring compassion to health care and to be good help to those in need, especially the poor and dying. We commit ourselves to bringing people and communities to health and wholeness through the healing ministry of Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church.

Good thing that inmates aren’t fetuses supplying stem cells, hmmmmmm?

Fuckers.

The organ donation scheme, worthy as it is for recipients, is an often ruthless, cut throat, for-profit-business.  Link is to a recent program on California Connected, carried on PBS here…

Just the two comments from viewers are a horror snapshot… then factor in the plan above proposes to use prisoners:

2 Responses to “The Wait for Life”

  1. Robert F. Hickey, Ph.D. says:
    September 30th, 2006 at 8:43 am

The present system for cadaver organ donation is unethical, corrupt, and unfair. Organs coming from deceased “donors” are donated to no one. They are sold. See the Denver Post expose`, 10/19/04. Organ Procurement Organizations (OPO) such as OneLegacy, Lifesharing, and Golden State Donor Services sell those organs. The United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS) operates the OPO system. The UNOS – Organ Procurement Transplantation Network make more than $700 million annually selling “DONATED ORGANS”. UNOS/OPTN is a private government contractor with a national monopoly. This group has blocked every major effort to increase other legal alternative forms of organ donation. They run a sham non-profit which makes hundreds of millions of dollars each year.

In April, 2004 a new law was signed into effect by George W. Bush which mandated national distribution of available cadaver organs to the patients most in need across the US. UNOS/OPTN and transplant centers have ignored this hence the unfair organ distribution of organs in California. Organ transplant centers make huge amounts of money doing organ transplant surgery. The do not want that Golden Goose to slip away. Some centers will lie, cheat, and steal to maintain that cah flow. Just look at UC – Irvine and St. Vincent’s in L.A. for the most recent examples.

I am the first person to have received a kidney transplant from a living donor I met via the Internet. UNOS/OPTN attempted to stop my transplant because this unethical, immoral, and corrupt organization received no payment due to the fact my organ came from a living donor.

There are other ways to get a needed organ transplant legally here in the U.S. Go to www.matchingdonors.com or www.lifesharers.org.

  1. Marie Avery says:
    February 11th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
  2. That was a terrific story on Liver Transplants.There was an important omission and that was the after-care of those with Liver Transplants. The cost of anti-rejection medication, which must be taken by the individuals entire life, costs approximately $35,000/year. Of course, if someone has insurance, they only need to pay a deductable for 4-5 medications. Who pays for the surgery and the medication for those who do not have Health Insurance? Universal Health Care may be able to address this and make transplants and the required mediccations available / appropriate for all those who need it.

Meanwhile, back in Spain:

Presently other than euthanasia there´s nothing left for the Catholic Church to oppose.

All battles were lost including the one for the hearts and minds of the Spanish people. While 95% of the Spanish youth declared in the 60’s that religion played some role in their life now only a third do. And that is only “some” role.

****************************************

UPDATE, 5:53 am on the Pacific Ocean…

Stand back!  Take prophylactic penicillin!  Have Cipro at the ready!  Hazmat suit!  Goggles!  I slapped my wrists before and after I read IOZ who spears the political not-so-secret sauce, Hunter, of “Daily Dross”.  Those are IOZ’s words… not mine!

However, nowhere is Martin’s attorney mentioned in the IOZ post, so perhaps I can avoid the threat of sackcloth, ashes and public thumb screw in the square routine.  Not that I ever knuckled under for the bullshit.

A World of Pert

Over at DailyDross, something called Hunter inveighs mightily against congressional do-nothingism on Iraq:

Let me try and make something clear to the Democratic members of the House and Senate. There’s a world of hurt coming your way, and time is running out.

You’ll pardon me while I remove my soiled culottes.

What “world of hurt” this could be is beyond my ken. Here you have a Democratic partisan on a Democratic party blog dedicated to electing Democrats at all levels of government. Come, children, let us remember together:

This is a Democratic blog, a partisan blog. One that recognizes that Democrats run from left to right on the ideological spectrum, and yet we’re all still in this fight together.  [snip – and aren’t you just flat out relieved?]

Oh have a laugh at the small island where they all went fucking bonkers.  The Blahg Mutaween, they travel in packs hunting the slightest bit of dissent

The religious police, known as the Muttawa, have the role of enforcing Saudi Arabia’s strict Islamic code. Its members prowl streets and malls, ensuring unmarried men and women do not mix, confronting women they feel are not properly covered or urging men to go to prayers.

But the government also gives the Muttawa wide leeway to enforce any rules they deem necessary to uphold the social order

Lest some fucking Bloo Dog (or worse, a Bloo Dog supporter!  Fundraiser!) be openly discussed…

Did I mention Martin’s atty?  Surely not!

To go back to IOZ’S post there are some excellent comments as well… 😉  One from Alan Smithee… 😉

*****************************************************

Comments»

1. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 March 2007

Thanks for the link my friend.

2. missdevore - 10 March 2007

ah-Zealot Miller (from Raw Story):

“Miller claimed that 45 million babies have been ‘killed’ since the Supreme Court decision on Roe v. Wade in 1973.

“If those 45 million children had lived, today they would be defending our country, they would be filling our jobs, they would be paying into Social Security,” he asserted.”

they could have been part of the surge! we have a cannon fodder deficit!

3. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 March 2007

Bitch Ph.D has the video of wackjob Zell.

4. Ezekiel - 10 March 2007

The Obey thing really has the pols upset. There was this push-back diary where it gets to the point in the comments where those two citizens are being accused of being Republican operatives.

On the other hand, DocGonzo has this to say:

We are Obey’s bosses, not his servants. His job is what we tell him it is. Not just those people, representing on their own initiative the overwhelming majority of Americans, including those who reelected Obey. But all of us. If he’s “leading” by taking a sometimes contrary path supporting a strategy in our mutual interest, he has to explain that. That’s what leadership is. And after decades in Congress, Obey should know that. His failure to act that way is a measure of just how much even a longtime minority can feel like public masters, contemptuous of those outside his DC bubble who just want simple actions to end a stupid war. Our job as citizens is not to trust our politicians, but to hold them accountable. In the media, in the ballot box, in the hallway with a camera if necessary.

5. marisacat - 10 March 2007

The obey incident is completely revealing and is not going away. The whole of the tape is pretty revolting. THEN Mrs Richards held up and made her points on Hardball….

They don’t “have the votes” as they need a wedge for 08 rather than for NOW, and they are not that interested in action NOW (I’d add if at all interested, ever!) and further as Richards said, obey and Pelosi and others use Republican TPs.

Also before you see the tape you expect to see a hallway filled with fractious youth (which would not bother me, but would fulfill the stereotypes). Then you see 3 plain regular people. And Obey losing it.

So Pelosi has been busy supplying what sound like rational, hard working “we’re on it, we swear! Our noses are being ground down by the stone! Fingers to the bone!!” quotes.

But in a few weeks?

piffle.

6. arcturus1 - 10 March 2007

interesting wording of this Guardian title, eh?

Angry crowds hunt Bush in Brazil

& if you missed it yesterday, a look at Brazil’s ethanol industry: Brazil’s ethanol slaves: 200,000 migrant sugar cutters who prop up renewable energy boom

7. ms_xeno - 10 March 2007

[J. Swift] I for one think it’s a disgrace that we’re slaughtering all those surplus people in Iraq and just throwing the organs away, unused. Think of the body armor money we could raise harvesting and selling the parts that aren’t ruined by DU or bullets !! [/J Swift]

As a PKD carrier (bad kidneys, usually requiring a transplant at some point) I am sitting here practically shuddering with revulsion. Maybe I’ll go rent the dvd of The Descent or something similar to cheer myself up again…

8. BooHooHooMan - 10 March 2007

So many lawyers so much time and so little talent.

Jerralyn at Talk Left after a quick cut and paster off NYT re google perqs:

In my fantasy world, I considered how much fun it would be to relocate to San Francisco and never have to write another brief. Then I checked the job offers at Google, and concluded there was not a single one I was even remotely qualified for..

Great. Log off then. Someone’s sittin’ in jail. Get your lazy, unqualified- to- work- at – google ass focused back on your job.

So who is qualified for these jobs? Shut up damn it. I love what I do but there are some days I can’t help but wonder what it would be like to have a job that had set start and stop times – where when you leave for the day, you’re done until the next one. Law is never like that. You get home and still work. You go to sleep worrying about if someone is going to get off or get five years or twenty years. It never stops.

Real comforting to know if you’re lookin’ at five to twenty, good ole Jeralyn will be up nights worryin about your ass. Real comforting to know she didn’t spend the billable daytime hours on your case snoozin away after last evenings sleepless night. Oh no. Those hours were spent blogging and daydreaming the day away about being young again, her hip, new career a mere hip replacement away from hoppin on the commuter bus with the trendi-razzi at Google.

I KNOW,: … ass cheese:

Alas, there is still nothing I can find in Google’s job database that I am qualified for. What a shame. I’d so be there in a minute. At least I would on a day like today when I spent 8 hours writing and submitting a brief the outcome of which will either get my client five or twenty years. It’s midnight on a Friday night and I’m still worrying.

Right, its all about you jerry. Try the Ass Cheese Department at Google. They have over two million entries just under “ass cheese’ … they probably have something they could have you do, or maybe find you something in “narcissistic bourgeois fart bags”

These people have no idea what it is like to work, really work 80-100+ hours a week. They no doubt miss the exhaustion on the waitress face when they think they are being gracious in leaving a tip. I just so want to club the shit out of these people with my CV I really, really do, but then I’d have to put them back together. The Republicans strike a chord in the hinterlands when they say lawyers are killing us. kos’ page, his bio, his crowd, jerylyn’s piece, its all the same bullshit. all narrative fluff. These people are pampered candy asses who, as adults, are pampered still. I have more in common with the clueless stone Republicans who work than clueless Dem lawyers who don’t.
I have more in common with clued in anarchists whether they work or not than I do with the clueless Democrats who mindlessly punch the clock..

9. BooHooHooMan - 10 March 2007

and thanks Mcat and all from yesterday.

10. missdevore - 10 March 2007

Our lady of perpetually odd questions finds herself musing on this-should one investigate the condition of their organs before offering them up for donation? I’d like to be a good citizen, but there is no way to qualify which organs might be worth a try if you elect on your driver’s license, say, to be a donor. Am I just suppose to scrawl in “don’t bother with the lungs, but help yourself to whatever looks good.”

I used to work in an intensive care unit and we worked with a group called ROPA-regional organ-procurement association. The coordinating nurse gifted me with a little lidded glass jar with the association’s name and logo. I keep polenta in it.

11. marisacat - 10 March 2007

well we used to have a little pink card (think it was pink) to fill out and keep with your driver’s license that indicated whether you wanted your organs donated or not.

So I took the little card filled it out NO…then put about 20 rubberbands around it and the CA ID. LOL

No aversion to donation.. but I just don’t really trust everyone in a hospital. Let there be no profit off my accessories.

A friend was shot in the head, the person with him at the time was shot as well (home break-in) and i knew he would be taken to SF General… so quick as a wink I called for his condition saying he was my brother. They wanted to know if he had agreed to donate his organs. First thing, right off.

Not blaming anyone, but LOL pays to be cautious.

12. missdevore - 10 March 2007

since we incarcerate so many people on drug offenses, I wonder how many bad livers there are in a prison population.

13. marisacat - 10 March 2007

So, more power to you, Zell. This will only encourage scores of woman who’ve had abortions, and their families and friends,

to vote Democratic in 2008.

Keep blaming the women of America for our failure in Iraq, for illegal immigration and for every other problem we face. I dare you.

link.

And that would be a mistaken assumption. The Democrats sent 6 to the House, so hard core pro-life that Democrats for Life claim them. Elected one backed by Ohio for Life… Shuler and 3 others new to the House could not even vote for the recent stem cell bill, specifically crafted to use existing in vitro material… all of that quite aside from Casey.

There, the Dems made the 9 Democratic women – and that would include Barbara Boxer and Feinstein, both nominally for abortion rights – to sign a letter that they supported Casey.

It’s my own belief the parties, that smush of rotting flesh, have agreed that abortion should be returned to the states.

Lott has said they RELY on the red state Dems to vote with them on abortion. Same day, Biden said he did not care if it returned ot the states. It was not as important as clean air laws. The old “either or” fake gambit.

link

MATTHEWS: Is the abortion rights issue what drives all the passion about this issue of the judgeships?

BIDEN: Well, it does on the extremes. It doesn‘t for guys like me. It doesn‘t for the vast majority of us, who are worried about the loss of the right for extended debate.

But, I mean, I‘m—look, I‘m going to get in trouble for saying this. If you asked me to list the 10 most important issues facing us in America, I would not list abortion as in the top 10. There‘s a lot of other changes that can take place in the court that will radically alter our lives in a fundamental way, without any state recourse or without any congressional recourse.

I do not want to see the decision changed. But if it is changed, you would find 35 states tomorrow providing for the same kind of protection Roe v. Wade does.

But if you change this thing called the nondelegation doctrine to say the EPA can‘t determine what is clean air and clean water, then what you‘ve done is, you‘ve condemned my kids to an environment where the powerful will determine the outcome of their health, fundamentally different issues.

One is able to be partially rectified, at least. The other can‘t be rectified at all.

Lott, referring to the 7 Democrats in the Gang of 14 (notice how Republicans get to threaten filibuster and filibuster just fine):

MATTHEWS: Do these seven Democrats have the fiber to stand up to the NARALs and the left-wing groups that say to them, oh, this is extraordinary; you can‘t—you‘ve got to filibuster this? The seven Democrats, will they stand up and say, we‘re sticking to the deal?

LOTT: I hope they will. You know, some of these Democrats are from red states, Louisiana or Arkansas.

MATTHEWS: Most of them are. I think that‘s interesting.

LOTT: Nebraska. So, they aren‘t—they don‘t answer to NARAL or People For the American Way, these left-wing extremist groups. They‘ve got a different constituency that they‘re thinking about.

And does anybody think Bob Byrd is influenced by any pressure group of any kind one way or the other? He may be, but that‘s not been his track record.

MATTHEWS: I wouldn‘t think that the pro-choice women are his constituency.

LOTT: No.

More Blue Dogs, more New Democrats… more DLC, in short. The Democrats with a majority are like a teenager you give the keys to the car to (remember the “story” about the vote for AUMF), and he walks. Then breaks his leg. Then falls in the gutter. And so on. Then drowns face down in 2 inches of pooling rainwater…

14. Miss Devore - 10 March 2007

Long ago, the New Yorker did an article on the first heart transplant patient (or the first “successful” one) in South Africa; the recipient was a white man, the donor, a black man. And the recipient felt a bit funny about it, if I recall. I just remember the article was discussing xenophobia.

A relative of mine worked in the ICU unit at Rush-Presbyterian Saint Luke’ s in Chicago in the early 70’s where they started doing heart transplants. She did tell me that the medical-ethical framework hadn’t yet been considered, and a nurse could be taking care of both a prospective recipient and a prospective donor, at the same time.

One of the weirdest experiences I encountered in the medical world was a directive to keep a patient “alive” until her head could be harvested for the Alcor cryonics institute. Husband had the law on his side to effect it-children were extremely opposed. I absolutely cannot comprehend anyone’s interest in cryonics. I want the goddessdamned period at the end of the sentence when I die. I’m not quite sure what’s so appealing about immortality.

But then, I was always puzzled when I watched Miss America pageants of old, and they’d ask the question of the contestants about whether, if it was possible, would they want to travel to the future or the past. And the contestants would always choose the future, as some sign of their being optimistic.

I always thought I’d rather travel to the past, to see what some Slavic slave maid experienced when the Medici’s had Botticelli over for dinner. Or chat up Jesus a bit only to discover he really wanted to create stand-up comedy.

One of the very worst spectacles in American medicine, was that guy they gave a mechanical heart, but who ended up with several strokes thereafter, yet they were still literally parading him around with his cardiac sidecar in his smalltown locale. It was like he was the first man who stepped on the moon, but tripped and broke his neck, but the band had to play on.

15. marisacat - 10 March 2007

I remember the mechanical heart recipient…if I recall they would pander to him in the press saying he had been selected as he was.. hmm a dentist I think, and thus could “assist” them in his own case. Or be articulate with medical terms…. Or something.

BTW, I noticed that Rove, at the ARK speech that I gave a miss to, also called Obama “articulate”
Biden is in such goooood company…

16. outofwater - 10 March 2007

This diary made it to the rec list with eight recommends and one comment.

Naw, it’s not rigged.

17. arcturus1 - 10 March 2007

o miss D – dontcha know we pamper those prisoners w/ medical care?

18. Miss Devore - 10 March 2007

outofwater-I have noticed that users can now opt out of their rec’s being shown. So I wonder if the recs you see (I can’t inhabit the system anymore, so I don’t know what it looks like) are only the ones that opted to have their choices exposed.

At any rate, it is one component in the dishonesty of this system. The fact that you couldn’t see users who troll-rated you was the first step.

19. earth to meg - 10 March 2007

#8 BooHooHooMan, I loved reading that. Thank you. Well put.

20. Miss Devore - 10 March 2007

well-arcturus-when I was last around the medical scene-1998, it was quite true that prisoners probably got more medical service than some uninsured.they came with guards, but they were taken care of.

tangentially, you have reminded me of an incident that finally broke the ice between this control-freak “charge nurse” when I was new in the ICU.

There was a dying patient who had a son in prison. The prison called, and explained the situation, and wanted permission for the son to visit his father. I took the call, but the charge nurse had to grant the permission. I summarised the call to her, and she asked me what the son was in prison for. I ad-libbed “attempted patricide” she cut me a bit more slack from that point on.

21. the paine - 10 March 2007

in a related story

tom lantos:
notrious munchausen of the holocaust
is donating his vital organs
for cluster bomb research

22. missdevore - 10 March 2007

the paine–your obscurity is one of the delights of this site.

23. marisacat - 10 March 2007

lantos: ugh.

ooops meant to add… lantos actually represents a part of SF… Pelosi is CD 8… and I think the part given over to Lantos (in addition to parts of San Mateo co) is CD 13. Most of what he represents is the “new” Chinatown, out in the avenues, the sunset District…

I think we are stuck with him til he agrees to go assist God.

24. Sabrina Ballerina - 10 March 2007

Outofwater, that’s been happening a lot. Diaries with 15 or 20 recs and few comments getting to the rec. list. But the whole thing is rigged, and was from the start, as is becoming more and more obvious. Btw, I hear that being banned from dk is going to become very fashionable and desirable, now that it has happened to btd! People will be working at it, it seems – lol. I predict a huge growth in AlanSmithee’s business!

There were some great posts in the last thread here, btw. Can’t address them all, but would like to say to Kevin and Mitm, not to give up. I would have remained single had I not fallen madly in love. I saw no point, as others have said in just pairing up for the sake of it. I confess to not having felt hopeless about this world until the past few years. Still, I know the world has been through darker periods, although not with the same potential we have today to totally destroy it.

I like to think though, that maybe the one benefit of the Bush administration is that they woke up those of us who were blissfully and shamefully unaware of the creeping fascism which was not apparent to the vast majority of Americans for far too long. I have faith that, as in previous dark periods of history, people will rise up against it. Not without huge consequences to many of course, but that’s the price that has always been paid for our willful blindness when these dark periods begin to manifest themselves.

Mitm’s post in the previous thread, the questions he asks, do have answers. But considering how long it took to get to this point, and they did it incrementally, it may be a while before it reaches a point where there is a turnaround. But do you not notice that there are many more who support you now Mitm, than one or two years ago? I know, maybe I am naive, but human beings do not react until they, themselves, are made uncomfortabl?. It is painful and frustrating to be among the few who have the ability to see what others do not until it is nearly too late.

I am laughing at Hunter’s ‘a world of pain coming your way’ threat to DC. It truly is laughable. DC is quaking in its boots now, I’m sure! Especially considering his nonsense from a week before. They really are irrelevant and becoming quite a laughing stock in their own very tiny corner of the universe.

We, the ones who ignored the ‘you are forbidden to criticize Dems’ garbage from the business known as dk, are responsible for any movement, no matter how slight, of the do-nothing Dems. Dk as I said before, is in the way! Now, that due pressure is being applied to each and every day one of their coddled, so-called ‘netroots’ (happy to take your money, but not your calls) candidates, we are at least getting some lip-service, and dk is attempting to jump on the bandwagon. It is too funny, really, their complete self-absorbtion and sense of self-importance.

All I can say to them is ‘go away’ while the rest of us work on takiing back this country.

Marisa, I hope you are feeling better, btw.

25. the paine - 10 March 2007

“obscure “…moi ??

why mademoiselle
i’ll have you know
my meaning is as plain as paste

just ask my friends here at bedlam junction

26. the paine - 10 March 2007

“the sunset District”

i’d say the after sunset district
is more his venue of choice

terrible tom

the corseted ghoul waltzing
nosferatu
of the bay area

27. missdevore - 10 March 2007

paine–are you one of those canadians with superior lyric powers in the english language?

thinkaboutit.

Joni Mitchell, L. Cohen,Bruce Cockburn, Gordon Lightfoot, and yes, even Alanis Morisette.

And well, Dylan was from Minnesota. Which might as well be Canada.

28. the paine - 10 March 2007

you forgot hank snow

29. colleen - 10 March 2007

Btw, I hear that being banned from dk is going to become very fashionable and desirable, now that it has happened to btd! People will be working at it, it seems – lol. I predict a huge growth in AlanSmithee’s business!

LOL!
I can’t begin to say how delighted I’d be were this true. It will make the task of writing a social history immeasurably more entertaining

Is anyone selling Banned from Daily Kos!!! bumper stickers?

30. missdevore - 10 March 2007

I will have to be honest, that in the obey case, I do find myself on the side of llorens of aravia and david sclerota to some degree.

there was no revolution in 2006, and so, we have to endure with the power-brokers that be. yes, it’s fine someone introduces some tension, but as a practical matter, isn’t there a more clever way to go about it to actually exercise some power?

I’m not very sophisticated regarding the mechanics of our government, but I am really not clear on what some posters here characterize as Obey’s failure. And I know quite well that I soured on Cindy Sheehan, who many here regard as authentic. And I acknowledge her place in the anti-war effort, but think she spun out on notoriety and became less effective.

Grrrrr. What is the most effective way we can end this war? Yes I have been disappointed with how the Dems have handled electoral victory. But I really would like to know how you think the whole thang could be handled more constructively. sincerely.

31. missdevore - 10 March 2007

paine-you edumcated me.

I’ll have to throw out the Marie Bryant challenge.

32. marisacat - 10 March 2007

well because I agree with Mrs Richards comments on Tweety (and her son faces a possible third tour AND has been seekign treatment here after his second tour, IIRC for PTSD)…I see no reason that AMERICAN CITIZENS cannot go into the hallways and state their case.

If Obey cannot hack it he should collect his pension. How dare he.

When the transcript is up (I forgot yesteday was Friday) I will post it.

Obey apologised because he is was on film. FOr no other reason.

i can promise one thing, this war will never end without military grunts, their families, mothers fathers, spouses actively turning on the war and the war purveyors. AND the people of Iraq, whoever is there, fighting back.

One of the problems is that we mere citizens are counted as less than the vaunted military. We, all of us, are not even 3/5ths.

It will require mil (whole people, 5/5th) and the support class (counted at 4/5th of a man) to fight back.

Til then they get to go on dying.

This is the 100 year war, the forever occupation. And America, both parties and Israel, other interested parties, means it to be that.

33. missdevore - 10 March 2007

Mcat-I can understand the aspect of raising a voice, but I’m asking how can that voice make progress sooner rather than later?

ok, I see I have already answered my own question. the citizen should not be chided for asking the rep to make sure his actions reflect the will of the electors.

ok. mea culpa maxima. i get it. to address Obey’s generally positive record will not make a difference. If a politician falls in the woods…..

34. marisacat - 10 March 2007

why should Obey be given a pass OVER WAR? If he gets a pass then what Mrs Richards observed in her hours on the Hill is obviouisly very very mistaken.

And let me add, I am significantly less impressed iwth the votes against war then I once was. I long ago decided a good portion of those votes, including from Pelosi and Boxer were deals.

Why is Mrs Richards and her concerns and her son’s concerns not a legitimate issue to present to Obey. Why is he allowed to be a shit? To citizens?

She was veyr clear, he brushed her off. Would not speak to her but to CHIDE her and lose it.

She spent an hour with Murtha, she said they disagree strongly about how to exit… (and he is deep in the MIC, as well as his brother, he is just McNamara tears… tho his bit of this bit of that plan the Dems should at least have been able to mass behind year and a half ago, it is a PLAN, imo, that they do not) but he listened. At least.

Probably went out for few shots after he got rid of her and had a big lobbyist meal of Irish stew paid for by Raytheon.

Why must citizens in the midst of war tip toe.

It is 6 years. Which is only the tip of the beginning of what is planned.

Look at the bases. Look at the Embassy. Not leaving soon.

35. missdevore - 10 March 2007

like I said, i get it. I made the mistake of pondering from the pov of the politician. this whole crew of folks who consistently raised their wages while asking others to sacrifice lives and rights.

I repeat: mea culpa.

and i’ll throw an organ in.

36. outofwater - 10 March 2007

I’m watching the rerun of the USA firings hearing on C-SPAN, God I am an addict. Anyway, there isn’t one of the fired AG’s who I wouldn’t enthusiastically support for any elected office.

Who knew there were such people in government? Oh, yeah, they aren’t in government anymore.

37. marisacat - 10 March 2007

Patraeus had a sit down with Brian Williams… last Thursday at one of the hardened bases inside Iraq. When the weak little benchmarks and dates roll around that the Dems think they can lay down, it will be this again… wash iron and roll it out.

Petraeus: I absolutely see what you mean, but the fact is there are way over 100,000 great young Americans who give you energy and inspiration and encouragement everyday and darn near every hour of the week. And it’s a privilege to soldier with them in this endeavor.

This is my fourth year, a longer deployment since 2001, so my family knows what sacrifice is about and I wouldn’t do it if I didn’t have the feelings that you’ve expressed yourself actually.

This is worth doing, it’s hugely important for our country, for Iraq, for the region and really for the entire world. we’re going to give it everything we have.

Williams: Just in the days I’ve been over here I’ve had families and friends say I get that you’re showing us these victories, able to walk around Ramadi where you couldn’t a couple of weeks ago,

but understand everyday folks back home are saying it’s time to get out of this.

Petraeus: Well, again, military folks just have a mission and it’s a fairly consuming mission. We’re actually not sitting watching the TV all day long or anything like that. We do certainly try and get the news clips that are pulled out. We’re focused on the mission and again, doing everything that we can to try and bring success and the accomplishments of that mission.

And that’s what America wants it’s military to do, I think. I know, that’s our job and that’s what we have to do and we are doing it.

Williams: Have you been forced into or do you see yourself having to tell your men and women “look, if it comes to this, at the end of your tour you must visit a place lie Walter Reed, everything’s going to be OK.” With four stars on your chest, do you have some responsibility to call home to make sure everything is going to be OK at Wlater Reed and all these VA hospitals because this has come up since you’ve been here?

Petraeus: In fact, they’ve reassured us. The Vice Chief of Staff and the Chief of Staff in fact, they’ve preempted that question literally and have communicated to us that they are absolutely committed to ensuring the best care of soldiers who end up in places back home like Walter Reed and really the entire medical system out there. I’ve been to Walter Reed on a number of occasions. I’ve walked through the wards, I’ve visited wives and soldiers and so forth. They’re the true heroes, they’re the ones who in many cases have suffered the absolute most, they and their families. The care that I saw there was first class, it was phenomenal. It starts at the point of injury right here and again, moves through these hospitals and again it makes it’s way back there and if we’re not doing all that we can there with the outpatient as well as the inpatient then we absolutely must and again that’s what the Chief of Staff and the Vice Chief of Staff communicated to us.

Everthing is OK.

Except that it is not.

By the way I read in some article that got away from me, that the VA is cutting back on the array of services for the amputee wounded. I am unsure what MSNBC will do, as everytime there is a big blow up, big loss of life in Iraq, 11 in one day they run film of the great prosthetics designs and the rehab out at WRH. Been doing it for years.

I really doubt congress will fight too hard on those medical cut backs.

38. Sabrina Ballerina - 10 March 2007

Outofwater, we did know there were such in government a while ago, but it got zero mainstream coverage, despite the fact that it should have been a top story on the news. It was alluded to in the speech made by Acting AG, Comey, when he resigend. There was one article in one mainstream publication (sorry I can’t remember it now, although I posted it many times back then on various blogs). He stated then that there were many good people in the DOJ who were ‘no longer with us tonight’ but ‘you know who you are’. And he said, it was plain what he was saying if anyone had wanted to follow up, that they had suffered for standing up for what was right.

Iow, this story that is only breaking now, thanks to one man, Iglesius, who would not go quietly, has been going on for a very long time. The DOJ has been rotting since the Ashcroft was approved as AG. Even he in the end, refused to go along with some of the more egregious demands made on him by Gonzales and Cheney et al. And shortly thereafter ‘resigned’. But no investigative journalist took up the challenge and tried to dig out the details. So we continued to lose our rights and eventually got the vile MCA voted FOR by 25% of Democrats. They threw away the Constitution.

On Daily Kos, Impeachment, a Constitutional remedy for those who break the law in elected office, is called ‘Impeachment Porn’. Biggest progressive blog on the internet? What a joke.

Now that the story is out and it looks like it’s even worse than we thought, Daily Kos only today, (and it took a commenter to do so) has finally reported on what is now a two day old story.

I remember having hope when Comey made his comments, that there were some real patriots somewhere, after all, but they were forced to resign. There are way more than the most prominent ones, if he is correct.

Just like Daily Kos, the most real, truthful citizens were banned from that site. Opol was right!! I do love saying that as it angers them so over there. You are not supposed to say ‘I was right’ the self-vaunted foolish ‘administration’ of DK told their ‘community’. Laughable but understandable as they have been so wrong about so much.

Btw, marisacat, I made an error and posted on a thread that is old yesterday about this story. Don’t know what I was thinking, but followed a link of yours blindly and assumed it was new thread (blushing from embarrassment). Feel free to delete it.

39. arcturus1 - 10 March 2007

. . .chat up Jesus a bit only to discover he really wanted to create stand-up comedy

that may well have been a part of the package, given some of the preacherly shenanigans & ‘revelations’ going on nowadays

40. arcturus1 - 10 March 2007

ms D – I was being sarcastic about the prison med svcs

society supposedly has a constitutional duty to little items like food, water & adequate medical care when they lock someone up for months, years or life

the CA system has been taken over by a federal judge (Thelton Henderson, very interesting man) & complete control (hiring, spending, everything) placed in a receivership – absolutely, systemically (their words) inadeqaute, substandard, out of control, err: horrific – people literally dying for lack of adequate care at a rate of something like one/week – & the receiver’s 1st report back to Henderson last summer sd: ‘it’s worse than you thought’

41. moiv - 10 March 2007

I know, maybe I am naive, but human beings do not react until they, themselves, are made uncomfortabl?. It is painful and frustrating to be among the few who have the ability to see what others do not until it is nearly too late.

It’s the same everywhere, a universal phenomenon.

Q: “So you used to be ‘pro-life’ and thought abortion was always wrong, the same thing as killing a baby?”

A: “Yes, I’ve never believed in it.”

Q: “But today you want an abortion, and are sure it’s the right thing for you to do?”

A: “Yes, ma’am, I’m sure.”

Q: “When did you change your mind?”

A: “When I saw my pregnancy test come up positive.”

We call it the EPT Conversion.

42. outofwater - 10 March 2007

SB-It is so frustrating to learn just how the Kos Kingdom bamboozled the “membership.” On the other hand, no one registered the hard cold reality, the factual truth, that he Democratic Party was not an opposition party, until the Democrats gained the majority.

Denial ruled during the minority years. We’d tell ourselves that if only Democrats had the majority then we’d stop the insanity. The last few months have been a frigid shower for many, our worst fears are realized, the truth is a painfully bright light. The reason the Democrats didn’t fight had nothing to do with their minority status, it was because too many of them had no objection to the catastrophe underway. The worst fear, which was barely below the surface anyway, is realized. Denial is impossible now.

For that reason, the Krash isn’t entirely due to the propagandistic manipulations of the site. Rather, the crash is a symptom of the awakening of the masses of naive slobs who didn’t release their hope is truly lost until now. The crash was inevitable, but accelerated by the authoritarian nature of the site.

On Hunter- He simply understands that no one buys the Party line. Just like Gonzales, they need a new story, the old one doesn’t pass the laugh test. Anyway the wind blows.

43. boran2 - 10 March 2007

Being ineffective has now become a time-honored tradition for Democrats, minority/majority status having long since become irrelevant. Consistency as virtue raised to absurd levels.

44. outofwater - 10 March 2007

make that any way…

45. marisacat - 10 March 2007

well Boyz are scraping the bottom of the barrel. MyDD is selling their readership that Dem Establishment is “low information elites”… the sell job being that netroots are … well they are something.

Pretty funny read.

Other than that I have on the NH Dem Party get together (C-Span 1). With Hillary. Who is promising to help and feel pain. For everyone.

Oops she is on to Selma now…

46. arcturus1 - 10 March 2007

tomorrow’s news already sounds so yesteryear:

The US army is lagging behind Iraq’s insurgents tactically in a war that senior officers say is the biggest challenge since Korea 50 years ago.
. . .
In a bleak analysis, senior officers described the fighters they were facing in Iraq and Afghanistan ‘as smart, agile and cunning’.

more troops for however many millions, anyone?

47. the paine - 10 March 2007

i shouldn’t bother you all with this

but as some may know dkos is not my scoff site
that’s prolly some economics blog or other
in rotation

at any rate

what are you by implication refering to

has there be the long predicted melt down over there

have the bees begun leaving in droves ?????

48. missdevore - 10 March 2007

moiv-good one. It used to frustrate the hell out of me when friends would take these abstract positions-and inevitably when they wound up pregnant, they didn’t hesitate to opt for abortion.

let’s say we take miller at his stats, and try to imagine what things would be like today if 45 million women had been subjected to forced childbirth. no doubt there would have been a bigger underclass. and we would have never heard from some characters–like that wealthy SoCal woman who lectured against abortion, though she had one in college–Susan what’s her face. A good chance she wouldn’t have made it thru college, nor married into her economic class.

49. missdevore - 10 March 2007

does anyone else see elephant profile in the smoke from the fire fight–the second tier of the cloud.

50. outofwater - 10 March 2007

paine-Nothing particular, just allll the bannings. The echo chamber is so loud there now it is deafining, it can’t continue, so it won’t.

KosKo didn’t understand that those expelled were not fungible, quite the contrary, they were what made the place unique. The ones left are too boring to draw the hits they need for mass market survival.

It’s funny. Kos could have hired someone for $20 an hour to police the place logically. Instead he did it on the cheap and lost it all.

51. NYCee - 10 March 2007

Ah yes, Spain (Top of thread). Recognizes same sex marriage now. Has come a long, long way. I was there as a kid – Mom, sis and I didnt pack pants or shorts because Franco was still in power, though fading out, and women wore dresses. Period. (They were always lovely though, with matching shoes – purple flowered dress, purple shoes; yellow dress, yellow shoes… sitting in the sidecar, literally, attached to the man driving the motorcycle. There were many of those …)

I dated an Argentinian on the lam from Argentinian fascists (who had disappeared a bunch of people he knew) when I lived in Mexico. He had bounced around England, France, Spain, then Mexico. Oh, and the States. (He loved City Lights SF, and, in fact, introduced me to Kerouac…spoke fluent English and French as well as Spanish…) I recall his delight in telling stories about his experiences in Spain after the dictator died the crowd went wild. I envisioned the country as a giant champagne bottle – shaken, popped, exploding and coursing thru the streets. He spoke of people taking to the streets in “wild costumes” night after night… an endless celebration… drugs, orgies, etc…

Well, they needed to pop. And now, how they have grown, it seems, as a nation.

In CONTRAST to Our Regression… (15 minutes drive from the big city)

Today after work, I traveled with my boyfriend to Kearny, NJ, a town only a hop skip from Manhattan, known for its Scottish heritage, its superb soccer teams. Very blue collar. We went to visit his grandma, who has lived there for decades since emigrating from Scotland. We went out for Fish n Chips dinner (de rigeur). We had tea and Empire biscuits in her kitchen. And she gave us a handful of local papers filled with the tale (articles, letters to the editor) of a boy who has become infamous in that town (and famous – NY Times, Good Morning America, etc) for standing up to his baptist minister high school teacher (and much of the townfolk who have weighed in against him) in a public school, which is what most Kearnyites must attend, because this is not a well heeled town. The ACLU and People for the American Way are joining his lawsuit.

52. NYCee - 10 March 2007

Cont. from #51 (and please excuse my editing faux pas)

Take a gander at the brouhaha that has turned the town of Kearny, NJ upside down.

Public school teacher gives lesson in right-wing Christian Tolerance

A history teacher at the local public high school [in Kearny, New Jersey] may have bitten off more than he cares to chew this fall. Self-described conservative Baptist David Paszkiewicz used his history class to proselytize biblical fundamentalism over the course of several days at the beginning of this school year.

Among his remarks in open class were statements that a being must have created the universe, that the Christian Bible is the word of God, and that dinosaurs were aboard Noah’s ark. If you do not accept Jesus, he flatly proclaimed to his class, “you belong in hell.” Referring to a Muslim student who had been mentioned by name, he lamented what he saw as her inevitable fate should she not convert. In an attempt to promote biblical creationism, he also dismissed evolution and the Big Bang as non-scientific, arguing by contrast that the Bible is supported by what he calls confirmed biblical prophecies.

After taking the matter to the school administration, one of Paszkiewicz’s students, junior Matthew LaClair, requested a meeting with the teacher and the school principal. LaClair, a non-Christian, was requesting an apology and correction of false and anti-scientific statements. After two weeks, a meeting took place in the principal’s office, wherein Paszkiewicz denied making many of these comments, claiming that LaClair had taken his remarks out of context. Paszkiewicz specifically denied using the phrase, “you belong in hell.” He also asserted that he did nothing different in this class than he has been doing in fifteen years of teaching.

Here’s the sweet part…

At the end of the meeting, LaClair revealed that he had recorded the remarks, and presented the principal with two compact discs.

Curses! Foiled by modern science!

The teacher then declined to comment further without his union representative. However, he fired one last shot at the student, saying, “You got the big fish … you got the big Christian guy who is a teacher…!”

More here at NYTimes

Student, 16, Finds Allies in His Fight Over Religion

And ACLU: School’s Inaction Subjects Student to Continued Harassment

53. missdevore - 10 March 2007

outofwater–not to overstate my role–but I did come up as one of the top readers or commenters at dk in the jotter survey of 2006. so by banning me, he has also eliminated support for the people I supported. and goddess knows I never much rec’d the star crowd–unless I thought it was deserved. I think I only rec’d MSOC twice (and I bear no ill feelings toward her). She once wrote a diary on some fascinating neurological phenomena that I rec’d. And the diary where she brought up the group-think phenomena at dk. which unfortunately she rather retracted after intense brutality from…..uh, guess who?

54. NYCee - 10 March 2007

(Continued from #51)

Take a gander at the brouhaha that has turned the town of Kearny, NJ upside down.

Public school teacher gives lesson in right-wing Christian Tolerance

A history teacher at the local public high school [in Kearny, New Jersey] may have bitten off more than he cares to chew this fall. Self-described conservative Baptist David Paszkiewicz used his history class to proselytize biblical fundamentalism over the course of several days at the beginning of this school year.

Among his remarks in open class were statements that a being must have created the universe, that the Christian Bible is the word of God, and that dinosaurs were aboard Noah’s ark. If you do not accept Jesus, he flatly proclaimed to his class, “you belong in hell.” Referring to a Muslim student who had been mentioned by name, he lamented what he saw as her inevitable fate should she not convert. In an attempt to promote biblical creationism, he also dismissed evolution and the Big Bang as non-scientific, arguing by contrast that the Bible is supported by what he calls confirmed biblical prophecies.

After taking the matter to the school administration, one of Paszkiewicz’s students, junior Matthew LaClair, requested a meeting with the teacher and the school principal. LaClair, a non-Christian, was requesting an apology and correction of false and anti-scientific statements. After two weeks, a meeting took place in the principal’s office, wherein Paszkiewicz denied making many of these comments, claiming that LaClair had taken his remarks out of context. Paszkiewicz specifically denied using the phrase, “you belong in hell.” He also asserted that he did nothing different in this class than he has been doing in fifteen years of teaching.

Here’s the sweet part…

At the end of the meeting, LaClair revealed that he had recorded the remarks, and presented the principal with two compact discs.

Curses! Foiled by modern science!

The teacher then declined to comment further without his union representative. However, he fired one last shot at the student, saying, “You got the big fish … you got the big Christian guy who is a teacher…!”

More here at NYTimes

Student, 16, Finds Allies in His Fight Over Religion

And ACLU: School’s Inaction Subjects Student to Continued Harassment

55. NYCee - 10 March 2007

Oooh… I posted a continuation of #51 and it got caught in your spamolator, Marisa. Heeeelp.

56. NYCee - 10 March 2007

As I wait for you to snatch my continuation post from the jaws of the monster behind the curtain (if possible, and thanks in advance), here is an extra little tidbit on the kid in the middle of the maelstrom.

Matthew La Claire doth protest (rather than pledge allegiance to the flag…)

~snipple~

When I sit out the McCarthy-era version of the Pledge

When I sit out the McCarthy-era version of the Pledge, it is not because I do not care about, respect or love my country. Just the opposite, it is because I do.

Our country has taken many dangerous turns lately. We have given away many of our freedoms through the so-called Patriot Act. Radical elements threaten to turn our democracy into a theocracy. Groups the majority does not understand, like homosexuals, intellectuals and liberals, are regularly treated with scorn, contempt and disrespect.

America has become the world’s only superpower, but instead of acting like a strong, confident nation, we are acting like children. I am sickened and appalled, and therefore it is not just my right, but my duty as a citizen to speak out. I do not do this for myself. I have nothing personally to gain and much to lose. I do it for my country because it is right., it is not because I do not care about, respect or love my country. Just the opposite, it is because I do.

Our country has taken many dangerous turns lately. We have given away many of our freedoms through the so-called Patriot Act. Radical elements threaten to turn our democracy into a theocracy. Groups the majority does not understand, like homosexuals, intellectuals and liberals, are regularly treated with scorn, contempt and disrespect.

America has become the world’s only superpower, but instead of acting like a strong, confident nation, we are acting like children. I am sickened and appalled, and therefore it is not just my right, but my duty as a citizen to speak out. I do not do this for myself. I have nothing personally to gain and much to lose. I do it for my country because it is right.

Damn. And that’s not all he says.

57. marisacat - 10 March 2007

think I got the continuation … or at least right now there is nothing more in Spam nor in Moderation..

58. outofwater - 10 March 2007

MD-Certainly you were one of the unpaid secrets to Kos’s success. It is nothing short of insane to fire the free help, but no one has accused him of sound business judgment. Perhaps when the next payment on that piano is due he’ll have second thoughts about his lack of intuition so far.

59. NYCee - 10 March 2007

marisa:

This is off theme, but not really. I had read up on some of the past posts I missed a while back and saw you highlight Pasolini’s Salo.

I know Salo… my ex and I went to see it back when NYC was still funky and then some. We had a theater in the e village, quintessential e village (2nd Ave Theater? St Marks Theater?) owned by a dwarf, who used to hang out in front shooting the breeze as the patrons filed in. Inside it was filled to the rafters with pot smoke on any given night. Themz wuz the days. (Just heard how there were 730 or so pot arrests in NYC the year before Giuliani got to Gracie Mansion and like 50,000 – I swear I heard that – by the year he left. Maher cited it on RealTime last night. We are NOT the same.) So he did a short run of Salo at his theater.

I couldnt stick out the flick, though, Marisa. I was too young and tender and my boyfriend wasnt treating me as tenderly as I liked, so I conflated his callousness (repressed expression of feelings) with the film’s callousness … it was at the point when they were going to cut off nipples – or breasts en toto? – that I abruptly took my leave…

But yes, it was a mindblowing view of fascism. I would watch it again, ripened enough now to view it without flying for the door….

60. earth to meg - 10 March 2007

MissDevore, I don’t see the elephant in the fire photo, but I do see Kokopelli lying on his back.

61. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 March 2007

Thanks Sabrina … I never set out to be popular, just to engage in a conversation … it frustrates me when people don’t or won’t converse.

As for Obey … well, political calculation comes AFTER you determine what your political goals are. Ending the war plainly ISN’T the Donk office holders’ goal, keeping their seats and increasing their caucus so they can cash in more is. Obey and the rest, and the synchoblogophants both pro and amature, they don’t share our goals. They don’t share the goals of an increasing number of American citizens. The ONLY way to make them do what is needed is to threaten what matters to them. THREATEN THEIR SEATS. They want the “stupid liberals” to go away, to quit protesting and bothering them … then they will have to listen, or they will be hounded until their precious seats are gone, gone, gone, gone. It’s time to break this party, break their cozy little world, their joy at being the fake opponents for the big, grand show with their fat checks and campaign war chests and speaking fees.

I say every constituent who is sick of this shit bring a friend w/ a camera or cameraphone. Push them, prod them, bait them, shame them.

Fuck them. They need to do their fucking jobs, end American imperialism, or go home to their juicy pensions that the rest of us could only DREAM of.

62. NYCee - 10 March 2007

Sorry – I double posted. I always think the second (or 3rd) time is the charm when the first doesnt go thru, but I should be more p-a-t-i-e-n-t.

63. Miss Devore - 10 March 2007

now he’s Big Time Disclaimer:

“Impeach Alberto Gonzales
By Big Tent Democrat, Section Law Related
Posted on Sat Mar 10, 2007 at 09:16:16 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)

(Again, just speaking for me, not Talk Left.)”

earth to meg-made me google, but I don’t see kokopelli lying on his back and I think you might be pulling my leggings.

look at the second from the top cloud-thangy on the right–see the elephant trunk poised in a teapot spout manner.

I’m not crazy. I’m a human being!

64. marisacat - 10 March 2007

Salo.. yes people were shocked I could stand it. One gay friend called it “one more white bathrobe movie”. There was a gay scene with both in white robes.

I confess I did shut my eyes quite a bit in John Water’s Pink Flamingos… and… not sure I spoke for a day or so after Clockwork Orange.

Of course we live in a country that wants all of that sort of thing to be banned…

Oh GUiliani destroyed integral realities of NYC… I try not to think about it. Apparently he is polling very well.. people are shocked !! shocked! that the evangelicals seem not too upset with his liberal tendencies in his private life.

I just figure he is making some very ugly deals.

65. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 March 2007

Michael Moorcock wrote a great story about a man going back in time in the hope of speaking to Jesus, “Behold the Man”. Poor Karl learns, when he gets there, that Jesus is profoundly retarded and a hunchback. Karl decides to reenact the stories he can remember from the Bible, feeling that the Bible is too important to western history to be wrong, up to and including ordering Judas to betray him.

Fantastic book. Think I first read it when I was about 15.

66. NYCee - 10 March 2007

I always thought, Do NOT let this fish (Rudy) into a big pond. Do NOT.

But 9/11 has wrought so much trouble for us, beyond the day itself. Like Giuliani -“America’s Mayor.”

Yes, I think the Christian Right and the Wall Street (MIC) Right are getting DNA on each other over Giuliani.

To think, finally, two northeasterners (horrors, what, no southerner? flash DANGER code!), New Yorkers no less, have a chance at the presidency, and I couldnt be more appalled.

67. NYCee - 10 March 2007

I just came upon Pink Flamingos again recently… on Sundance. The chicken scene was grotesque. That bothered me the most. But the penis hotdog flashing and the eggs eggs eggman! … You feel the dirt come thru the screen while watching Waters.

68. outofwater - 10 March 2007

Dare I suggest the thumpers don’t know Guil’s firs wife was his first cousin. If that didn’t put the P in perverted then moving your girlfriend into the home with the current wife and kids D in dysfunctional. Not to mention what Jesus thought about all this. AND the 9/11 firefighters hate him. Then there is Gulli in drag….

This just doesn’t seem a package the fundi’s will buy, unless they are bought. But with what currency?

69. missdevore - 10 March 2007

NYCee–Hillary killed me with her New York accent in Selma last week.

Hillary is from Park Ridge, Illinois. I know Park Ridge.I spent considerable time in Park Ridge. It’s no New York city.

70. NYCee - 10 March 2007

Yeah, Obey said “idiotic liberals,” Madman. That was quite a hiccup. I have to say, I gave him points for at least being honest. A whole horde of them seem to be saying that, much of the time, without actually coming out and saying it.

71. marisacat - 10 March 2007

Times Sq / 42nd Street and so on… made me very sad… I had CNN on the day the old Metropolitan Diner closed its doors. My mother was very loose she let me take the bus into NYC quite early alone… make my way from the Port Authority to downtown/uptown ..

Disneyfication. What a shame.

72. missdevore - 10 March 2007

Mitm-sounds fun.

I just missed a heartbeat. I’ve been loading some CD’s of mine onto the new laptop. And I just picked up a Sarah Vaughn one, and opened it, and the CD is gone. It felt like the theft of Munch’s “The Scream”,until I remembered I have the CD in my office at work.

73. NYCee - 10 March 2007

missdevore:

She had a NY accent in S-e-l-m-a? I thought it was southern twang… just a touch, but enough to notice. Do you mean while she was trying to put on a voice she put on the wrong one? She generally has a flattish, hard tang (not twang, tang) to her voice when she is just being – gawd, luvver – Hillary, which, I guess, is my perception of an Illinois accent. Or Park Ridge thereabouts. Obama… what is his? It sounds kind of southern even when he isnt doing Selma.

74. missdevore - 10 March 2007

NYCee-i was being sarcastic. Jon Stewart was conclusive on Hillary’s & Obama’s accents at Selma.

75. marisacat - 10 March 2007

outofwater, well my guess the purchase price of the fundies is to accept a lot of their input on issues of their choosing. One of which of course is abortion/related issues. Afterall he is up agaisnt Brownback who will broker his way into the sytem using the people he can mass behind him and up against the middle america elks lodge ugh whatever, Huckabee…

76. Sabrina Ballerina - 10 March 2007

Outofwater #42

SB-It is so frustrating to learn just how the Kos Kingdom bamboozled the “membership.” On the other hand, no one registered the hard cold reality, the factual truth, that he Democratic Party was not an opposition party, until the Democrats gained the majority.

Well, I agree that people rushed to sites like DK because things were so bad and placed their hopes in a Dem majority. But, it is not entirely true that questions didn’t arise about certain Democrats’ going along with, eg, the MCA along with many other issues, or with nominations like Gonzales etc. At DK when these questions were raised, the SYFPH diaries appeared and there were bannings of those who dared to question.

So, there was a silencing of those who raised the questions when really, if the sites themselves had been truly progressive they themselves would have encouraged the questions, raised them themselves and placed pressure on Democrats who ‘went along’ to take a stand. Instead they protected them. Especially after the MCA which was a last straw for many when 12 Senate Democrats went along and voted for that vile piece of legislation.

The Paine, what outofwater said. And they have banned BTD/Armando they say, (choking back laughter) because of ‘incivility’. But really, he was attacking Dems lately, pushing for an end to the war and fighting with some of the operatives on the site. So, no one believes the ridiculous ‘incivility’ excuse.

The most interesting people are gone – some banned, many having left in disgust. Now they are trying, as they often do when the screw up, to pretend they too are unhappy with Dems. They are way behind the people, as they always are, and since the site depended on progressives for revenue, and they clearly were by no means a progressive site, it is going to be interesting to see how they will bully their membership into voting for any of the current candidates, all of whom seem to be on board for forever war.

Things have changed since 2004. Many will no longer buy ‘the lesser evil’ excuse. Better to vote your conscience this time and let the chips fall where they may. We have had six devastating years of war and more war, so going along is no longer an optiion. It changed nothing.

77. missdevore - 10 March 2007

minor FAQ-true Chicagoans will have nothing to do with Illinois. It is merely a convenient host. Chicagoans are more comfortable with Michigan and Wisconsin, even Minnesota over Illinois. it’s a Great Lakes thang.

78. Sabrina Ballerina - 10 March 2007

Miss D. I don’t see an elephant in the smoke. I do see a duck though, on the righthand side – lol

Meant to say, I am becoming a real fan of IOZ – so many great writers around the internet on the independent blogs.

Marisa, I clicked into the link to Booman’s last visit here. I laughed at his question ‘are you planning to harm my lawyer’? Is he planning to beat his wife? What idiotic nonsense from him.

NYCee, re Giuliani, being from NY, I share your horror at the deification of a man who imo, would be worse than Bush were he ever to become president. What will do him in will not be his personal life, imo. The country is so full of hypocrites that only matters if you’re on the wrong side. It will be when the myth of the ‘9/11 Mayor’ is shattered. His record on terrorism is the worst and it was never questioned before. But it will be now, and for that reason alone, I’m glad he is running. The whole thing was such a lie.

His record on terrorism is dismal, and the NYC Firefighters have started the ball rolling regarding the deconstruction of that particular lie. I doubt he’ll be the nominee, he has many skeletons in his closet which will probably shock the rest of the country, although not NYers.

79. NYCee - 10 March 2007

Oh, you are right, Marisa. I despise it, the Disneyfication.

Here is one place I feel particularly sad about the snuffing of, not in Times Square but among those that Giuliani stamped out. Billy’s Topless Bar…

Topless Bars Threatened by ‘Quality of Life’ Drive

Now, a bagel fucking shop. It was a neighborhood institution! Chelsea when it was ungentrified. A blue collar and students and anyone welcome kinda place. Low key. So different from pole dancing razzle. It wasnt pole dancing… the girls would change in the cramped ladies room. I remember one, so friendly, saying, “I love your lip gloss, what is it?” They were just languid sort of writhers on a low bar with low stools facing it… wearing their own unique get ups… and then there was another bar, the drinking bar, where no one paid them any mind at all.

This place was near another den of iniquity, now that I recall, an adult S & M club called Paddles (lol) that was owned by this Queens couple. Big blonde Queens’ hausfraus milled about in leather with whips and shit. it was very playful. I used to see the doings because my ex (Salo companion) used to practice with his band in a studio on the floor above it. What a riot! We used to have to go retrieve the drummer during breaks. … the naked elderly and college bucks getting spanked downstairs … like I said, themz wuz the dayz.

80. bayprairie - 10 March 2007

since we incarcerate so many people on drug offenses, I wonder how many bad livers there are in a prison population.

shit! i dont know.

lets ask david crosby!

81. NYCee - 10 March 2007

Oh… I thought I detected a touch of sarcasm there, missdevore!

(Note to self: bring sarcas-o-meter in for tune up)

82. bayprairie - 10 March 2007

LOL!
I can’t begin to say how delighted I’d be were this true. It will make the task of writing a social history immeasurably more entertaining

Is anyone selling Banned from Daily Kos!!! bumper stickers?

marisa, do you drive?

83. NYCee - 10 March 2007

Sabrina B – I was heartened to hear the firefighters are pushing back on the myth. I am afraid though that Americans, GOPpers and even Independents of a stripe, will be so enamored of the perception that he fills the myth bill, their need, they will ignore the very people who know his deeds the best. Just disgruntled idiot New Yorkers… They dont ‘get’ him like we do. He’s a Real American. He’s one of us.

They are desperate and willing to overlook a lot… to WIN.

He will have to be hit hard and often.

84. missdevore - 10 March 2007

and don’t forget guiliani in the culture wars and his assault on that african artist who dunged the Virgin Mary.

85. NYCee - 10 March 2007

I have another post stuck in spam city, about the demise, sad, so sad, of Billy’s Topless Bar. Another Giuliani casualty.

I’ll be patient. 🙂

86. marisacat - 10 March 2007

miss devore.. the dunged BVM and wsn’t the … crucifix in urine (or something like that!) at the same time, roughly. I just can never get excited by that sort of thing. I mean, as in a panic that the earth will reverse axis becasue art meant to blaspheme exists…

let it all rip.

87. moiv - 10 March 2007

Miss D, I absolutely have seen the elephant — Dumbo flying due east.

88. NYCee - 10 March 2007

Yes, the dung virgin was traumatizing. Thank GOD America’s Mayor alerted the churchgoing citizenry to that X-treme danger lurking in the Brooklyn Museum. I felt it, smelt it, we all did, but we were clueless and helpless till our Rudy sounded the alarm. Just like he did over the 9/11 “air is fine” swindle. Simply the best.

89. NYCee - 10 March 2007

I seem to have trouble with posts whenever they contain html /links. Could that be what’s snagging them? Never used to, just lately.

90. missdevore - 10 March 2007

I thought the “Piss Christ” was marvelous, and was surprised that many artists came very grudgingly to its defense.

I read it as “what does it take to turn you away from human suffering?” I saw it in the latimes and it was visually effective in portraying the Suffering Jesus.

because, at that time, the country could barely acknowledge AIDS.

Kitka’s “The Vine” just came up on my Itunes.

Chestita Baba Marta, btw.

91. moiv - 10 March 2007

MD, Giuliani didn’t like Alma López’s Our Lady, either — herself in a flower bikini.

I used that image in a piece called Atonement in Blood. It seemed only appropriate.

92. missdevore - 10 March 2007

moiv-you saw the elephant.

and then there’s ferlinghetti via billyS: I, too, have drunk and seen the spider.

93. marisacat - 10 March 2007

MIss Devore that ws it! Piss Christ.. now it all comes back!

NYCee

the spam file has been acting up for days. It used to snag people from time to time. Esp madman… often Tuston. but now it seems to scan anything with more than 1 link or with more than about 25 lines and whammo!

I have tried several times to loosen the defaults, going way back. To let say 60 lines iwth 4 links not be considered spam, but it overrides me…

94. NYCee - 10 March 2007

Rudy garnered a lot of XOs from The Lobby over his ejecting of Arafat from the heads of state shindig when he was mayor. And spurning SA’s offer of big bucks after 9/11. He dances their way, bigtime. (Not that SA is not shite and the timing makes it understandable, but he was also very cool to Chirac when he came to Ground Zero, as I recall. A grudge over no air space to bomb Libya? Who the fuck knows.) I fear he is the antiCarter for ME solutions. Nice thought for post-Bush times, eh?

I know Bratton couldnt stand him. Big falling out. Wonder if he will have anything to say about Rudy as Prez….

95. missdevore - 10 March 2007

moiv-thanks. never saw that image, and it’s perfect.

96. NYCee - 10 March 2007

mc – Thanks for your trouble. Do you think I should break it up into two shorter posts and try again?

97. Sabrina Ballerina - 10 March 2007

NYCee, it isn’t just what Giuliani did after 9/11 to the first responders, what they will surely be talking about soon, is how he refused to provide proper communications equipment for them, which many believed cost the lives of hundreds of firefighters and others that day. And it was another of his petty fights that caused him to refuse to have the cell phones checked ( a contract with a crony company I believe). He claimed the request to inspect the mal-functioning equipment was some sort of vendetta against him. That whole episode should have been investigated long ago. I’m hoping it will be brought up again soon.

Colleen, bumper stickers with ‘I was banned from Daily Kos’ sound like a great idea. I love it! I’m looking forward to a mass suicide GBCW diary, signed by dozens of ‘kossacks’! That would be fun, and is really not at all out of the question in the near future, imo.

MissD #53 – I completely agree with you. Your exchanges with LOA were among the most entertaining on that site. I think you were one of the first to identify the Heathers in TC and of course they were out to get you. I do believe that like him or not, LOA probably protected you from them for a while.

They also went after Monique Radevu, who dared to object to the viciousness of the formidable MissL. That is one scary woman, and boring beyond belief, not to mention a terrible writer. Monique was also banned. They were jealous of her it was clear as she gained in popularity. Thin-skinned is not the word to describe that little group of ‘administrators’ and wannabes.

Mitm #61 – well, you may not have wanted to be popular, but what you write resonates with a lot of people. I think that is the reason you too were banned from DK. They are afraid of anyone who speaks the truth. I do agree with you re the Demoratic Party – it needs a thorough cleansing. Or, we need a third party, maybe even a fourth so that the power is not consolidated in the pretend two-party system we now have.

98. marisacat - 10 March 2007

well there is nothing in spam now I released everything… sure it is not upthread?

When they come out of moderation or spam the comment goes to what would have been the sequential place, tho the comment arrives late in line. So to speak.

Hope that is clear.

99. missdevore - 10 March 2007

thanks Sabrina. And Madman was popular-with me, for instance. A rare feminist male.

Just read this:

“By Cheryl Wittenauer, Associated Press
ST. LOUIS — Former Sen. Thomas Eagleton had the last word at his own funeral Saturday, urging his friends and family in a farewell letter to “go forth in love and peace — be kind to dogs — and vote Democratic.”

you better believe I will be kind to dogs.

100. NYCee - 10 March 2007

Yes, Ive heard about the communications screw up by Giuliani, sabrina.

Im hoping they will be effective in publicizing this and whatever else they can find.

101. missdevore - 10 March 2007

Sabrina, I do believe LOA accused Monique of being the new miss devore. In fact, it may have been in the MSOC diary where she called out groupthink at dk. twas also the diary where peeder suggested exercise away from the keyboard for LOA, which devolved into the whole “peeder can’t get laid and he questions my mental health” drama.

Yo-DMV-harvest my memory glands. they are top notch.

102. Sabrina Ballerina - 11 March 2007

Lol, Miss Devore, Monique was unique in her own way. She really was very bright and might have survived had she not challenged the vitriol of the Dhinmi minions. He seems to operate in the background, coward that he is and is probably responsible for many of the bannings there, but does in a sneaky, behind the scenes way.

I can imagine LOA making that comparison – definitely a compliment to Monique, which he probably intended lol!

NYCee, it was brewing scandal because of the contracting company, even before 9/11, but was squelched, like everything else, afterwards. Now is the time to revive all these scandals. Giuliani’s huge ego may by his undoing in the end. Like all egomaniacs he believes in his own mythological persona, which was created for him by those who needed to sell their wars. All he ever was was a tool. As Sen. Byrd said long ago now it seems, that ‘when the American people learn the truth, this house of cards will fall’. The truth seems to be spilling out all over the place lately. Imo, Giuliani’s own house of cards will be a casualty, mainly due to his inability to remain in the background. He needs the spotlight, and most of all he thrives on power.

Speaking of the truth spilling out, it’s hard to keep up with the emerging scandals. From the US Attorney firings, now spiralling to include many that were not published, forced resignations etc. to the revelations coming from Hookergate and the tie-in of the Walter Reed scandal to the Hookergate Scandal. And now, the increasing demands for the impeachment of Alberto Gonzales, and today, the revelation that Bush himself may have ordered the torture of detainees.

I was going to post links to some of these breaking stories, will do so tomorrow. I think we’re beginning to reach that ‘critical mass’ everyone wondered about. It’s about time, and way too late for so many, many victims.

103. Sabrina Ballerina - 11 March 2007

Lol, oh, this is funny! Even in the US, Chavez beats Bush in popularity:

Who has the more positive message for Latin America?

George W. Bush – 47% 9770 votes

Hugo Chavez – 53% 10828 votes

Total: 20598 votes

CNN Poll

104. marisacat - 11 March 2007
105. lucid - 12 March 2007

They also went after Monique Radevu, who dared to object to the viciousness of the formidable MissL. That is one scary woman, and boring beyond belief, not to mention a terrible writer. Monique was also banned. They were jealous of her it was clear as she gained in popularity. Thin-skinned is not the word to describe that little group of ‘administrators’ and wannabes.

There is a lot more to that story. ‘She’ was banned for sock-puppetry. ‘She’ was also Prince Vogelfrei. That’s all I’ll say at this point, because that’s all I can definitely confirm. Not that MissL isn’t vicious and thin-skinned, but Monique was banned for a legitimate reason. E-mail me off site if you want the story in more complete detail.


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