Just a thread… 27 April 2007
Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, Afghanistan War, AFRICOM, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Iran, Iraq War, Israel/AIPAC, WAR!.trackback
Mother and Children. Iraq house sweep, 2004.
A long time ago… and yet, to 6 out of 8 Democrats on that stage in SC, Iraq – and Afghanistan, Iran, Mogadishu, any number of places to say nothing of Abu Graib, Guantanamo, Habaes Corpus and on and on – is nothing, nothing more that is, than a political chew toy.
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Marisacat 
I hate being stuck at work when all the juicy stuff is being thrown on the grill, but just to follow up from the last thread:
I have myriad problems with Kucinich, but none of them relate to his presence on the stump. Frankly, I always find it strange when people who I consider smart lament that such-and-such a politician doesn’t speak snappy enough, takes too long, etc. At some point it dawned on me that the very slickness we claim to prize in our news-as-entertainment may be the problem. Maybe we need to learn to prize the clumsy, the pedantic, the homely, the geeky, the anti-slick, if we want change. Maybe we need to accept that the ability to boil complex issues into a 90-second soundbite is itself the problem. Those who do it on autopilot are showing an unwillingness to wade into the messiness and awkwardness of everyday life. At the time when admission that there IS a mess is what we need the most. Worse, their obsession with getting to the point before the station break makes it likely that they will get the point totally wrong.
Amanda fell head over heels for Johnny because he just sounded so damn charismatic up there and all. And Johnny, when one tiny little chip was a little bit down, proved to have all the emotional depth and sincerity of a convenience store snack cake. Proved to have no clue about what his priorities should have been. The rush was entirely in the wrong direction: To prove to a bunch of tightassed religious busybodies who wouldn’t vote for the cowardly fuck anyway no matter what he did that he would jump when they snapped their fingers. Jump with a smile.
I submit that slickness and polish is the exact opposite of what we need. And there a million examples out there that prove it.
SB, have you got your own blog yet ? If not, you should have one. I had not heard until today about the mysterious deaths on the AG’s watch.
Oh, and apropos of nothing, I hereby commit a deportable offense in my city of residence by proclaiming that Cat Power now and forever sucks eggs, and that I’d rather listen to Beth Orton any fucking day of the week.
And now back, literally, to the drawing board. 😉
I scammed this from Danny Schechter’s News Dissector… he indicates via al Jazeera, but no link:
hmmm it s been reported elsewhere but all are picking up on the al Rawi story.
I’m not asking for slick, I’m asking for the ability to articulate, to communicate, to be able to rally people around ideas and a common cause. That is, after all, what a politician should be able to do, if they’re not going to be just another deal maker, gladhanding version. There are pedantic geeks who can do that.
as for the “neutron bomb” story, Danger Room has a theory about what happened.
I remember reading somewhere that they were using a lot of thermobarics there … sounds like a reasonable explanation.
That’s an excellent post, ms xeno, #1 – you are so right about appearances v substance. There’s an old movie called a ‘Patch of Blue’, I think that’s the title, which deals with exactly that. It’s a story about a poor blind girl and a black doctor who befriends her (played by Sidney Poitier). If you haven’t seen it, you should rent it ms xeno, I think you’d really like it.
She comes from a very poor family. Her grandfather walks her to the park every day and leaves her there. Her mother is a witch who yells most of the time. It is at the park that the doctor first notices her. They become friends. She is white, he is black. I think the point of the movie was that if we were all blind there would be no prejudice (hardly true, but I don’t think it was meant literally). When her mother finds out about the relationship (just friends) she freaks out because he is black.
In the end, the doctor pays for her to go to school. Your post reminded me of the movie – and how sad it is that what is on the surface so distracts from what is really important. Nice post.
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As for having a blog, no, and I would be a terrible blogger – lol! Credit for the dead women attorneys story goes to the little blog Iinked to in my post. I found a link to it, I think, originally on DU, but then forgot where I had seen the story so I had to search for it again today.
I like that little blog, it is full of information. He did a good job of presenting that story. He said he is ‘working hard’ to get the story out.
There is an update on his blog re the story, btw. He had apparently asked Samual Lipari for an email interview. His update says that Lipari has agreed to do it tonight.
Email Interview With Samuel Lipari
I noticed that some of the commenters on DU asked Lipari to join their discussion. He did respond, saying he is too busy to join in the discussion but is reading the threads on this story.
The Hooker story is getting better by the minute. To begin with, apparently Randy was considered for the job Wolfowitz now holds at the World Bank. He was also a CEO at Eli Lilli.
But that’s not all. Randy is, apparently, the second ‘client’ named by the Madame. The other client was Harlan K. Ullman who is responsible for the phrase ‘Shock and Awe’. Looks like he was prescient in his choice of words, after all. We are surely awed if beyond shocked by now.
Apparently Ullman was named over a week ago:
DC Madame tosses out a name
A cruel, disgusting man, no surprise he would be a hypocrite as well. But if Ed Rollins is correct, there will be Democrats on her list also. So Dems ought to refrain from being too excited about these revelations. However, it’s they utter hypocrisy of the right that makes this, and all the other stories (Foley, Haggard, Gingrich et al) so disgustingly hypocritical.
isn’t it weird that we didn’t hear about Israel using thermobaric weapons against Hezbollah? they do seem to be our official weapons testing ally. maybe we refused to share the secret formula? cola formulas and super-shady-secret weapons are the only secrets Murka won’t sell!
Kevin
hmm well I can expand on what did not work for me iwth Kucinich… and I did not bother to post on it – as, so what?
I think if you have a single issue, or a platform you want to further or a series of issues you want aired but you know you cannot win… you OWE the electorate to go every wehre you are invited, to the extent possible, show up and elucidate. Talk. Engage.
Kuc did not do that. Several forums that he disdained (hardball was one a series of one hour shows that Tweety did, one per primary candidate, SORRY! show up, do well, engage) and in another that I had thought was very suited to him he ws sulky. That was on Cspan with Steve Scully. One on one, an hour. He was like a young shy child. He refused to answer several questions about his childhood. SImple straightforward stuff that is not prying. In fact he claims to have a special take on poverty and HAS talked about the homelessness of his family. SO TALK.
Oh PUHLEEZE. he comes out of a jungle of politics, the Ohio leg and Cleveland city mayor.
Show up. And engage. He often took the fey route.
I am glad for all voices and Kucinich has done wome worthwhile stuff… but basically in the presidential primaries, he is too much of a dilletante.
i also urge people to catch his duet show piece this time, when he is with the wife. It so does not work for me. I think she is a self styled “spiritual healer cum guru cum whatever”. It falls flat for me. But what I see is a good game. They ladle out a fake new age routine, a spin, and avoid the hard political questions.
The only thing I ever heard about Kucinich’s TV appearance was that he wasn’t funny enough on The Daily Show. I remember hearing a friend telling me this and wondering what being suitably clever on The Daily Show had to do with being a worthwhile candidate. [shrug] Part of the problem is that there’s no cable TV here and I tend to avoid the “news” like the plague. Such as it is. The TV-readiness of candidates isn’t a big deal to me.
The religious schtick I probably would also find off-putting, but that’s true of any religious practice used in public. I always feel the urge to make sure my wallet is still there when they bring out religion, be it New Age or Old Time or some combo thereof…
Well she ladles the new age and he drops the chapter and verse.
Now I don’t care that this is a third wife. meaningless to me. But they sure do lecture and use religion.
And LOL I really suspect his conversion on abortion. But three marriages is OK.
It all falls apart.
I tend to believe the conversion, if only because the general trend is the other way. A more solid career move would be to jump on board the Reid bandwagon. Rather than jump off.
kucinich can’t communicate, and he can’t be botehred to really campaign.
granted, this doesn’t really set him apart from a whole party of dems who won’t really campaign worth a damn, or say much of anything of substance when the cameras are rolling.
one of these days, someone with kucinich’s positions is going to run like the world depended on it.
not yet, though.
and so, pathetic grasping for straws optimist that i am, i hope that gore v. 2.0 makes a run of it.
someone, for god’s sake, has got to speak the truth, and speak it in uncomfortable places. the american peple are not unlike the press corps; if they are not given the permission to get fired up, they tend to assume that they’re the weird, out of touch ones, and doubt their gut feelings about this handbasketa nd where it’s going.
i liked that gravel disdained the frontrunners.
i wish a lefty got in it to win it. and by that, i don’t mean moderation, i mean determination, stumping and a sense of theatre.
as you can see, i fight madman’s worldview tooth and nail, even when he’s probably right. hope dies last.
Well, I don’t think that it will be Kucinich. However, I remain confused at how often I see candidates who seemingly have the stances that progressives say they want. But the candidates are scorned and blacked out of the blogosphere, or dismissed as hopeless for what appear to me to be very peculiar and capricious reasons.
A candidate may very well be running somewhere as if his/her life depended on it. But if nobody wants to show up for the press conference, or if everyone wants to make fun of the candidate for being rough around the edges or having not gone through the proper channels first, it makes no difference.
I always think it’s funny when somebody on some DP stronghold snickers that I’m a “purist,” when it fact it seems to me that they are far more obsessed with rigid standards and dress codes than I could be in a million years. I just have a very different notion of what’s negotiable than they do. Substance is less negotiable than style.
But it’s late, and I’m getting fuzzy. Any less general point will have to wait.
yeah you know i remember reading about this a while back too. i still have the links too. weapons like these will be on black markets in a short while, probably are already.
Thermobarics All Over
Explosive Threat
hezbollah might have been using them against israel.
Hezbollah`s Thermobaric Arsenal (maybe)
OK, before reading the rest of the thread, I must respond to this [& I also can’t read the rest of the thread tonight because I’ve got a shotgun recording session that is starting in 8 hours and I need to get the fuck to bed].
Anyhow, I know Chan. I used to hang out at Max Fish with her. Her early albums are the most sublime thing you’ll ever hear.
She sucks live. Miss X, I don’t know if your response is to one of her live shows, or what, but don’t dismiss Chan, and don’t say she now and forever sucks.
Before you say that, go back and listen to Moon Pics.
Chan takes every sorrow in the world & spits it back with a voice that mimics the aching in your bones.
Metal Heart, copyright Chan Marshall, 1998.
I’m rather fond of Cat Power, when I’m in the right mood for her. The latest has a nice post-modern Dusty Springfield thing goin’ on.
happy impeachment day, vipes!
The Donks are speaking at the Donk convention in SC today. I’m going out, but if you’re inclined, C-SPAN is covering it live today starting at 10 EDT.
MOB on his FP sure seems the expert on massage parlors.
hey wu ming, someone has to do it. I’d rather be wrong. Don’t think I am, though.
(from rawstory):
“I’m sad today,” said one person close to Tobias, according to Saturday’s Washington Post. “The president loves him and Condi absolutely loves him.”
no “women who don’t love enough” jokes!
shorthand for the Tobias revelations:
“The medium is the massage”
(apologies to M. Mcluhan)
Now I don’t care that this is a third wife. meaningless to me. But they sure do lecture and use religion.
And LOL I really suspect his conversion on abortion. But three marriages is OK.
The third wife is a full 31 years younger than him. There’s something wrong with people who marry those who are easily young enough to be their children.
I listened to Kucinich try to intellectually justify his abrupt change of heart in regard to abortion 4 years ago in an interview on a Seattle radio station. To say that I share your scepticism is an understatement. I believe him as much as I believe LV, which is to say, not at all. What I want to know is why this guy is chair of the Progressive caucus.
I couldn’t believe this TPM post so I checked:
Fox::
Not unusual?
Elsewhere:
BOY SCOUTS KILL DOG!
I’m in spam.
I couldn’t believe this TPM post so I checked:
My next post has more:
Fox’s take:
Not unusual?
Elsewhere:
BOY SCOUTS KILL DOG!
Fox::
Not unusual?
The next post finishes it. The spam filter doesn’t like too many links, I guess.
Nope, the spam filter won’t let the story about the torture of the dog out.
out of water…I got 3 out of Spam. SORRY!
If there are dupes will sort it out once all are in the thread.
outofwater–it sure looks like it’s out of spam.
a happy impeachment day post at Je blague..
wow. The REAL story of how the dog was killed is more than a little disturbing.
Huckabee is a classic case of the American Mask. God knows what is under that small town shuck and jive.
Yeah I don’t care who Kucinich marries but it is the old pattern, slap the women around (lord it over people w/r/t abortion) but don’t inhibit the sacrosanct actions of the lord.
His “conversion” had to do making a national run, so I disbelieve it, no matter what. He still spouts the soft “Dorothy Day” version of Catholic Good Works. Very Marcy Kaptur style. And she is really hard core. No Stem Cell for her, no way… LOL. And no abortion.
If one listened to Biden’s answer in the debate about intact d&e and the SC, one would think he supports abortion. Understand the federal ban of a medical procedure and [cough strangle choke] cares… LOL
I have a link to a Hardball interview in whihc he dismisses it’s (abortion, at all) importance. “The Clean Air Act” is of greater importance. He laughed, even.
Notice how the SC ruled, clean air vs human life.
Biden plays the old political game of “either or”. Working a game to tell the electorate you “can’t have both”.
And of course you can, if the politicians cared.
ugh… colleen I thought Woolsey and Barbara Lee were co chairs.
No really he should not be chair.
I do believe here, presented as a PSA by Mcat from NYO/Jason Horowitz, is The Official Democratic Position on Iraq. One could call it the extended Democratic Hand Job (I find it very funny that the massage parlour HJ is being explained elsewhere)… Or a mean screw presented as the missionary position.
I think that is American foreign policy in a nutshell.
Not very different from Bush, imo.
LOL
Obama… very acceptable to the Editorial Page at the Wapo. Esp his awful speech in Chicago this week.
He musta bagged another Pioneer or two.
Outofwater, that is a horrendous story about the dog killing. It is sickening. I thought there were laws about cruelty to animals? Not to mention that fact that it is a clear sign of mental disturbance.
As for his loaded gun, if it’s not unusual for people to ‘forget’ they are carrying loaded weapons on airplanes why the hysteria over nail files and perfume bottles etc.? We are living in an insane country.
I just finished reading back on Hookergate since I think that scandal is beginning to unfold finally, and it’s mind-boggling what was going on, at Homeland Security eg.
The irony and insanity of setting up a whole agency supposedly dedicated to security and then handing out a multi-million dollar contract to a felon with a long rap sheet (Shirlington Limo) to supposedly be available to safely transport top officials in the event of a terror attack, is beyond belief. Not to mention that his license was restricted twice in the recent past.
The characters involved in this scandal are shady, crooked, slimy, sleazebag crooks yet managed to operate in DC even before the Bush administration took over the government. Dusty Foggo, Nine Fingers, Porter Goss, Chertoff, Brent Wilkes, Wade, Cunningham and under suspicion, several members of Congress eg, Jerry Lewis, Doolittle and others, all had a scheme going on (and the war in Iraq was a bonanza for them all) that makes the Mafia look like amateurs.
Prostitutes, cigars, poker games, trips abroad where more sex, expensive food and entertainment was provided for these criminals with hard-earned tax-payer money, was par for the course, going back years it seems. And then there were the threats, actually death threats, against anyone who had reservations or questions about what was going on.
9/11, the War in Iraq and the so-called WOT, keeps them going – pays for a lifestyle that only royalty could dream of. And for so long because it goes all the way to the top of our government and into every government Dept., no one could stop it. It incenses me to think that those of us who objected to their wars and fabricated scare tactics were called traitors and that so many went along.
I keep thinking I’m beyond shock but that story about the dog, well, it’s just really disturbing because it makes you realize that this kid will one day be at the top of our government if things don’t change, because he is exactly the kind of person they want working for them. Maybe he is already. We are, without question, being ruled by insane men and women capable of murder (see the Gus Boulis trial eg) if it serves their purpose.
I’m going to the beach to get some air –
katrina federal funds have been a bonanza as well. As recently as a few months ago, it was documented (NAACP, Facing South, Talk Left, and others), much federal cash went to INLAND MS and NONE to coastal victims.
Blatant, all of what has happened for years. and Democrats were where? In the cloakroom making deals.
Ugh. I hated Moon Pix. Everyone at this obscure art rag I used to do stuff for was going crazy for it the year it came out. It almost put me in a damn coma.
Its horrible what happened to that poor dog, but sad to say animals are tortured by the millions horrendously every second in factory farms, I’d venture. And I am not a vegetarian anymore since embarking on a punishing regimen of chinese martial arts about ten years back; learning the alleged chi enhancing nutrition of beef tendons and such. I do try not to eat pork though, having met at least one intelligent, affectionate little piggy, at the legendary Frank Frazetta’s spread out in PA a few years ago.
MC-Please clean up my mess.
Sorry
BTW, Mcat’s comment about Obama chasing after Bush Pioneers is another piece of the mystery to me. We want a candidate who “runs as if his life depended on it ?” But Obama’s actions are exactly what such candidates do. Everything is for sale and nothing is off-limits if it gives you a leg up on somebody. Then, as with the ability to finesse everything and boil it all down to sound bites (which may or may not bear any relation to the real issues at hand) we wonder why they turn out to be toadies and wind-twisters. When the need to be a toady and a wind-twister goes hand in hand with the very actions so many smart people equate with “viability.” So-called. (Seems to me that term should be shelved forever post-Kerry.) It makes no sense to me.
Well you can run a broad based campaign talking aobut issues and going out to the electorate without chasing big money Bush supporters.
Frankly, I think that is clear.
Obama is a comfortable apologist, as tho slavery never existed in this country. It is a several decades old pattern of prefering the “foreign” black to the native black.
He’s a toady. Hillary wants to visibly piggy back off Bush (once a Goldwater Girl, etc., but mouths she supported MLK, what a laugh) and Edwards is – still – the barely middle of the road white Southern Christian welfare office Manager. “Ending poverty” is a business. And a schtick.
IMO, of course. None of that is running like your life depended on it and caring one whit about the people.. It is just old time sell outs. I don’t care the party or the political position. Same, across the board.
On the other hand, it is a real shame when an alternative candidate gets elected, as wu ming pointed out in the mayor of Davis and does not reach out to the full spectrum in the district (several comments a few threads back). Talk about no eyes on the prize.
Too much disconnect in the country and aided and abetted by a rigid political system.
42-Mcat–you can borrow my vacuum cleaner.
speaking of appliances..I needed to iron this piece of canvas for my impeachment banner today, and looked under the sink, and found a completely new iron. It has been so long since I ironed that I completely forgot I purchased a new one. And it took me awhile to figure out how to get the ironing board down–it’s one of those you hang on the back of a door.
LOL… well I am paring oow down to I think # 25 which I htink has everything.
Sorry about spam: I have tried to increase the number of links allowed (I have tried 8, 6 and, recently, 4) the system overrides me.
Sabrina Ballerina – last thread awesome stuff on USA’s and Medicare Fraud. Medical Money is crucial to the facists in this country. We have a society that perpetuates illness physically and emotionally and have elites that feed off the misery. It can’t even be called a protection racket, really, because from top Docs to Administration in allegedly world class research institutions , they are all too willing to split the lucre.
While not precisely a Medicare Issue tough there is plenty of insurance fraud involved, Reconstructive Plastic surgery is a classic example with whats happening in our fucked up society.It’s much greater than strictly a medical issue. The yuppo-matics who enter med school and eventually get coveted slots in plastics fellowships are quickly out the door in the endless quest for money and the perfect breast. ..and I’m not talking about post mastectomy revision, or truly patient initiated/ patient centered requests for help. Surgicenter marketeers are promoting this “keep up with the Smith’s” approach, preying on the body image vulnerabilities of the youngest of females. It’s all ultimately about penile augmentation and ass enhancement for these characters and the wallets one packs on the backside. Meanwhile we have wholly underserviced populations here in the states for services.
reaching for barf bag:
Meanwhile in the Near East, the Subcontinents, there is a particular dearth of facial reconstructive services despite the morbid but not uncommon practice by men of slashing and acid disfigurements of women in the name of male honor.
We need to nationalize Health Care. The only way I see that happening is driving a wedge between small to mid sized business interests and the vulturous medical goombata. I’m not holding my breath and would refuse the oxygen anyways — as I’m still willing to shell out for my fix now and then of the occasional cigar. I know – sorry it’s my only vice, but I think it’s my only bad choice in putting my money where my mouth is.
Not all bad some say?. Granted. There is still a smidgeon of principled rogues practicing, trying their best to practice what might have been an enlightened monastic life. On the business side, there is the example of the Stryker Medical fortune heirs who have plowed tons of money in fighting the fundies in Colorado, grandson John is bankrolling gay Marriage initiatives.
It’s all still a drop in the bucket. A bucket that is ultimately filled with blood.
Hey – thanks for the link. I hope to post the questions and responses from Lipari today sometime – but I’m busy and and busier. Tomorrow at the latest.
Thanks again. And nice place you’ve got here.
LT
yeah the Strykers are quite a family. The dark secret, that Dems decline to tell as much as Republicans, there is enormous money made in the Federal and state subsidies for medical care. For nursing home care.
But we force a division of welfare / not welfare. the State, the over riding push from above, is to maintain that division.
We can and should expand Medicare, merge Medicaid and the various state versions (TENNCare was veyr good til Bredesen slashed it, at the same time the MS R governor slashed Medicaid in MS) eliminate the division of welfare vs other care, expand to 0 – 18 immediately, also immediate for catastrophic care and keep expanding.
They won’t do it.
I am catching up slowly. Went over to Je blague and saw this, back a few days. Just amazing.
A TOTAL FUCKING MESS.
The “po’ mouth” line about Health Care and Money is such bullshit.
It is the cell saver, the blood recycler that redistributes wealth to the same set of folks when the other sectors of the economy go cold.
We can land on the moon, transplant organs limbs, something as delicate as the human hand, ….can’t we create a society that prevents the cycle of gross wealth and privilege accumulation followed by “throw a bone” philanthropy?
Thom
thanks for stopping by.. and thanks to Sabrina for linking back to your site and the unfolding drama.
😉
Well, BHHM, my theory is that the main reason –beyond the dollars– behind our current system is that it’s an ingeneous form of class stratification. Hell, let’s just say imprisonment. How many people stay in jobs or living situations they detest because it’s the only way they can keep even the plywood armor that passes for “covered” these days.
My local experience showed me that Labor (at least at the state level and upward) cynically buys into it as well. They, too, want the pigeons to stay where they are and not fly too far afield, which only proves that the DP’s general air of short-sighted bottom feeding has gotten in their blood as well.
Assholes. May they all get what’s coming to them while I’m still alive to see it.
On a related note, the asshole who was railing last month at fat people for “ruining” the medical system on PDX Indy was back again yesterday. Only this time, s/he added smokers and drug users to the hate list as well.
Join us two weeks from now. Perhaps those who ruin their health with eating disorders, coal mining and falling off mountains on hikes will also make the list.
Celebrate diversity, I always say.
well unions have wanted to keep health care a worker tied benefit. For their negotiating.
hard to underestimate the capacity for humans to sell out one another.
The ONLY reason we hear from fake burbles now, NOW is that increasingly business wants OUT of providing benefits.
but all the plans allowed to advance are sops to the insurance scams.
And god knows the Movement BlogShotosphere says NOTHING about nationalised single payer health care.
LOL Jerk those poodle chains… 😉
people like that decline to discuss large particle pollution. And other things…
It is always ingestion, or a habit of choice, etc.
I still say what I have said for decades, Clean up the Rio Grande river and I will listen about blaming the population. Get high fructose and corn syrup out of the food production (it’s in everything!) and I will listen about blaming the population.
It’s a scam.
My pleasure. Q & A with Lipari is up. Let me know what glaringly pbvious questions I missed if you’re so inclined.
here is the link to the Little Thom’s Blog interview with Lipari.
that is a horrendous story about the dog killing. It is sickening. I thought there were laws about cruelty to animals?
All the ones I can think of are state laws.
Not to mention that fact that it is a clear sign of mental disturbance.
Cruelty to animals is a serious manifestation of psychopathology. The links have been well established for at least 40 years.
This should have been a HUGE red flag to the State and to his parents.
I realise dead is dead… but it seems to me the cover story is a seemingly ill, stray dog that the enterprising scouts shot. Inappropriate and troubling and merits a close look (and obviusly a cover story) but a far cry from:
And instead it is a highly personalised, time extended (in it for the blood and the death of something living) killing AND they caught the dog. Strung it up, slit it’s throat and then beat it to death.
I feel pretty sure they will or have escalated.
Hey ms xeno! You nail it. The class strata is the universal recipient, perpetuating itself with blood and money from all “donors”, if you will. Every one of the (now quaintly termed) “Professions” are now slaves to the Corporate Dauphins of Defense, Oil, Finance, Consumer Poisons, etc.
The DP is a beneficiary of SEIU’s push to organize “nurses” and other health care workers. You know what? It’s not going to do shit for “nurses” . The reason I italicize “nurses” is that anyone who is honest in health care will tell you, the very term ” Nurse” invokes “maid”.
Until the AMA has a stake driven through its heart, nurses will be perform most of the tasks supposed to be done by doctors and be paid shit to do it. I would suggest a National health care service with three major classifications of workers Physicians, Surgeons, and Technicians.
Medical MD’s are vey touchy about their status, are intimidated by surgeons, referring to them variously as Plumbers, Carpenters or Upholsterers. Surgeons, in turn, refer to medical practitioners as “fleas” — the first on a case and the last to leave.
We could build substantially more medical schools, and train “Physicians” that would merge and supplant nursing and diagnostic Medicine. Surgeons would continue sewing, Technicians would be recruited in requisite numbers and trained beyond the level of “push a button”. Reclassify job tasks, redefine wage scales, and most importantly of all cap disparity between the income levels between the top and the bottom.
Regarding Surgeons, frankly the length of training is entirely too long, perpetuating an indentured servitude, followed in most cases by a sense of entitlement that never entirely dissipates burn me at the stake, but if an aspiring young surgeon can’t get the hang of it within seven years of total training, there’s always Law School.
The problem is not division of labor itself, it’s who controls it. Outrageously involved barriers to medical education, the province of monopolistic licensure, further featherbedding regarding house priveliges in regional health systems, THEY All still lead to division of labor with most of the work being down by exploited staff. It all leads to poor distribution of the health care provided, the quality of which is diminished as well.
Division of labor is as much a fact of health care as it is in a factory. That said, let it serve the many rather than the few.
In such a National Health Care scheme, it would allow ambitious clinicians to build their careers like miltary careerists looking for “the action” -really put some money and muscle serving communities in crisis. The only perks and prestige granted would come from serving the national interest.
I could on, but now I need a cigar.
Sorry for the Large Particle pollution, Mcat.
Stern SEIU is way too comfortable iwth the NDN Rosenberg nook.
A real shame, it seemed in 2002 – 04 that there might be something, someone there. Clear the last years, same old same old.
Agreed. Any union who gets national leverage on Health Care could ultimately make old man Hoffa’s Teamsters look like a bunch of tiddlywinkers. (The Boy Scout analogy now forever lost to the general lexicon).
On a lighter note, mcat
Miss D:
Bones of Prehistoric Camel Found at Wal Mart Site.
ancestors of BHHM found nearby?
Except for Obama, who might have matured into an interesting pol in a decade or so, I can’t stand any of them. At least in the past there was usually someone that I could support — not that they got the nomination. Not this time.
Maybe the Camel WAS my ancestor
I do think market based health care is a class issue in the U.S. There is no way they want to improve the quality of life for the poor and working classes. No way. Nationalized health care represents a step towards more equality, higher standard of living for all. They don’t want to go there. Better for them that thousands, if not millions, of folks have to choose between taking their kid to the doctor and paying the rent.
I wouldn’t want any stipulations in nationalized health care. Anybody – anybody – who is on American soil for any reason deserves health care for free. Whatever they need. Citizens, not citizens, visitors, travelers, students, undocumented, documented – who cares? No stipulations about “these people” or “those people” – I hate that divisive shit, it’s being done in California with undocumented workers and the like.
I wouldn’t want any stipulations in nationalized health care. Anybody – anybody – who is on American soil for any reason deserves health care for free. – earth to meg
Bingo. The UK does it. I am usure the current status for health care for non resident in France Germany Italy etc.
healthcare is a human rights issue, period.
Remember when the right went nuts over Rosie saying that Building Seven at the Trade Center was purposely brought down?
Well, John Kerry just said so too:
So, once again, is a Democrat cognizant of info that our gov’t lied to us about, only to finally reveal it when they feel safe to do so. Again, if the Senator knew this when it happened, WHY DIDN’T HE SAY ANYTHING?
They sanction lies over and over.
My SEIU redux and the split within the Labor Movement
SEIU by far is the best of Big Labor. Of course, you can go down the smartest chimp in the zoo award path, there. You are absolutely correct regarding the rest of Big Labor’s dullardry towards nationalizing Health Care.
It is the industrial and craft unions who oppose healthcare unionization in regional heath systems that are killing SEIU present action– For a number of reasons. Regional manufacturing transport and municipal services unions are scared off by health systems who put out the word to their customer’s bargaining units [ at the plan,t the trucking co, the local government etc.,] that if they stand with SEUI, their premiums will go up, affecting contract negotiations.
Then there is the competitiveness factor amongst unions themselves regarding who can organize on the same Health Care Turf. They sell out for a few bargaining unit perks in the Hospital Basement, until Management kills them off later. They leave the Doctors and Nurses alone. Labor is selling each other down the river, to the port, up the crane, then on the boat.At leeast the medical Center Cops are unionized that are posted outside an O.R. door after a drive by shooting.
I have to hand it to Stern in the sense that if you are going to go for the brass ring, organize health care. The temptations and inducements that surely come out of the woodwork to coopt SEIU actions are undoubtedly powerful… But if they got to critical mass in health systems nationwide, not just State Institutions that are relatively easy pickens , nor in welcome wagon parts of the country, SEIU and Big Labor would be on a “put through all calls” list at the White House once again. Of course, the question of whether they would truly serve the workers would remain to be seen. If Labor could purge their own deadwood, resolve their own turf battles, and not settle for merely protecting paltry legacy unions in consolidated health systems, Organized Labor in Health Care could bring this nation to its feet rather than letting so many of us die on our knees.
I think organised labor is too marginalised. And while they made some murmurings around 2003, 04 and into 05, they just cave to the Democrats. They appeared angry over CAFTA vote, but then lined up to help for instance Melissa Bean.
I don’t expect much. The day of industry manufacturing, even service industries are passing. So unions are just m arginalised. And Stern to me looks weak. Pretty sure he was on e of the “unions” that advised CNA to cave into Arnold several years ago. Instead they pushed and he dropped 20 pts in the polls.
LOL Just so Democrats out here could support him and get him re-elected.
You can’t win for losing. Or the reverse.
This piece made me smile …
Nothing fills my heart with gladness more than kids saying “fuck you” to restrictive religion and culture.
Hats off to Earth to Meg and Madman
Someone just popped me this…
so much of this about. Basically she whines. And posits that ONLY Democrats can save us. Fortunately I never cared for her.. I cringed whenever she showed up. Very much like Eleanor Smeal and a few others…
Still cringing.
LOVE the Kerry thing. Was ti Counterpunch that lectured thw WHOLE of the left (wrong, all sorts of people questioned the collapse of WTC 7) for questioning …
Geeesh.
Amazing isn’t it, Mcat?
The day of industry manufacturing, even service industries are passing.
The commoditization cycle of our society accelerates and now bullshit, our media, is the last remaining valuable coin of the realm.
media and politics. sad to say. And media will ensure we never have sane public financed elections. Ever.
Gary Hart – An Open Letter to Mayor Giuliani.
Speaking of a society sustained by bullshit…
I hope kos’ archives aren’t the nations breadbasket of the future.
This evening’s Meal? A hefty serving of Delaware Dumbass followed by a vintage Armando circa 2006.. Your servers? Waitress Maryscott OConnor who will be lighting herself on fire… At the buffet, Meteor Blades will be at the carving station, Hunter will be working the Ice Cream Machine, and in the private dining room, Mcjoan and Elise will be serving up–you guessed it – THEMSELVES. Martin the “Philly Boy Booman” will be busin’ tables, diswashers Chris Bowers & Matt Stoller will be lickin plates clean….
Ah, the vanguard of the nation’s progressives.The wave of the future.
camels in arizona??–oh that’s right, shortly after Noah cruised the Grand Canyon……
llama,llama,llama. as they say.
damn, I had such a nice day. went to the local open studios, saw some friends, bought 2 small works–because I couldn’t decide between the 2. When I set them together at someone’s suggestion, it only made it worse–they were a perfect pair. Visited with brother & SIL, got slobberated by their pug.
Then went to Safeway and got fixin’s for a pomegranate martini.(Very hot here–finally got to turn window a/c unit on after dog baked in the sun on the porch.)
Impeach banner is still up–landlord was here today, but said nothing. Started wondering if it just looked like part of the scene–it’s on the porch of an ivory-colored stucco building with terracotta roof tiles–the banner is on yellowed canvas in cadmium red. Perhaps a subliminal effect!
“Whiner” is too polite for Pollitt or anyone else in La Nation’‘s veal pen to stay.
Cockburn had their number in ’04, I’m convinced. They are as much obsessed with treats and strokes as the most slavish of DP in-house bloggers. The lot of them can kiss my fat Crank ass.
Frankly, you all are too smart for me. Thom, BHHM, SB, etc. I am giving up blogging anything but pictures and the occasional obnoxious music rant forever. The competition around here is just too good.
And all this reminds me: I know my job is precarious without a Union, and that there are a lot of treats and strokes that went when I left the public sector. I did learn a lot being there for five-odd years, however. It’s just too bad that a lot of what I learned I’d be happier forgetting all about.
Orcinus, writing about a man beat to death by some thugs merely because they thought he was gay:
gonna head out to see Robbie Fulks … hopefully I’m not going to kick myself for not buying tickets ahead of time.
check ya’ later!
I still don’t like “hate crime” too close to “thought crime”.
I jsut don’t understand why it cannot be within the realm of “with special circumstances” rather like cop killing.
And bringing killing people for race, sexual orientation, perceived orientation for how a person “looks” ie cross dressers and so on, why all of that cannot be under a “civil rights” special circumstance.
the distinction is useful b/c hate or identity crimes are targeted not just at the individual that gets attacked, but also symbolically at a community. in a sense, it’s an added assault to a battery case. ie. terrorism, if that term wasn’t pounded beyond meaning.
well infringing on civil rights is inherently against a group, as symbolised by a single person.
vipeout–where is everybody? enjoying spring nights?
I’m just about to coil up in my overstuffed den and finish the small Helen Thomas book and then go on to Bernard-Henri Levy’s “American Vertigo”. Can’t find the novel about the Tourettes narrator from Brooklyn. Might be excavated under housecleaning-as-archeology tomorrow.
but I’m around if anyone wants to talk.
Caught up on your site today… loved all the pieces plus the new one. But I linked up thread to the Boris Yeltsin one. The writing WITH the photos was stellar.
did give myself a feather for finding that boa pic at some Australian academic site.
The boa pic was amazing. Loved the chihuahua and the cabana boy too… 😉
I did have to post The Model in complete nudity. She was a bit miffed about her mistaken identity as a pig.
from rawstory:
“Protesters demand impeachment as President Bush speaks at Miami-Dade College
Larisa Alexandrovna
Published: Saturday April 28, 2007
Miami – Hundreds of protesters gathered at the Kendell Miami-Dade College campus where President George W. Bush spoke on Saturday afternoon. Roughly 200 protesters were clustered near temporary fences and an estimated 600 altogether spent the better part of the afternoon marching and holding signs alongside a main road near the college campus.
The protesters were commemorating “National Impeachment Day” with a peaceful march while Miami police looked on. The president was escorted in and out of the campus through an entrance on the far side of the campus, where he could not see the protests. Two pro-Bush supporters rode their bicycles in front of the protesters screaming “Commies,” but by and large, the rally drew few administration supporters.”
somebody tell nancy…
LOL
hey–I was reading Allen Smithee today and he seems to have vacated his invisible blog.
And of, course, my comments still won’t post on SMBIVA.
what’s a girl to do?
last I saw, Alan was on haitus to think about blogging. Has there been a update?
My mistake at Stop me was I thought their Hillary thing was a JOKE. Then I found out it was real, you really DO have to fill in her name.
LOL. I left a comment a few days ago and meant to check back to see if it “took” then forgot to round back by there.
SO many blogs… 😉
Might be excavated under housecleaning-as-archeology tomorrow. Miss Devore
Lol – ‘everybody ought to have a maid’ – I think that song if from Monty Python.
********
On a related note, the asshole who was railing last month at fat people for “ruining” the medical system on PDX Indy was back again yesterday. Only this time, s/he added smokers and drug users to the hate list as well. Ms xeno
This must be one of those people who have no vices and who plans on living forever without ever seeing a doctor.
Btw, ms xeno. you better NOT mean it about not blogging anymore. I absolutely love your posts – and besides, we have a party to start (well two parties, the political kind of course, and I hope you’re planning to attend the summer fun pre-Yrly Vag party here on the fabulous east end of LI where all attendees may indulge in whatever their particular vice may be.
I’m hoping to persuade Lucid to provide live music, and if we can find a benefactor with a private jet (actually I have a friend who flies a private jet for some obscenely wealthy individual, I just remembered) maybe it can pick up all West Coast Vags and others who live in various parts of the country, eg Tuston, BHHM et al! Canadians, like Catnip might have to get across the border before we can pick them up.
It won’t be all fun and games of course, we do have serious business to attend to – (snicker) – our country needs us. But a little fun in the sun shouldn’t interfere with our work! So stop that nonsense about not blogging anymore – you’re making me nervous, ms xeno! And I’m NOT smart! I’m a complete air-head at time and had George Bush and his band of criminals not exposed the rot that is our government, I would still be airily going about the business of just having a good time. I’ll never forgive him for that
what Sabrina said-ms_xeno, catnip, Alan Smithee–never stop your blogs. Lots of us met at Mcat, but that doesn’t mean any VAGs or NABs should fold.
besides–I want to go womano a womano with ms_x on some collage thangs.
Wow, Thom, thank you for stopping by and thanks to Marisacat for the link to the interview with Mr. Lipari. I just skimmed it and have to go back and read it again. There is a lot to absorb –
You did a great job of covering that story and kudos to Mr. Lipari for his willingness to answer your excellent questions.
And look at the great discussion your story sparked here re the Healthcare system. Bhhm great posts and everyone else. I know very little about it, but am learning fast.
Hey, Miss Devore, congrats on your Impeachment banner – I have to catch up on how it all went today, re Impeachment.
Off to read Thom’s interview with Samuel Lipari again – bbl.
Oh, all right, S.B. Anything for a comped or tax-deductable trip to LI. If I bring my harmonica, some hardtack and a canteen of potable water, we can hop on the LIRR and *really* make me relive one of the more colorless yet poignant (or is it the other way around) episodes of my lost youth.
My only major vice these days is refined sugar. I bet if I gave up coffee, the sugar would go, too. Much as smokers often can’t quit for good until they forgo their ritual morning coffee. One habit hinging on another. But fuck it. Who wants to give up coffee ? [scowl]
Oh, and new collage up. Probably will not impress anyone’s pastor or whichever Virtuecrat whose campaign they might be pseudonymously blogging for this month. So don’t click, unless you’re really really bored…
Good night, my beloved malcontents.
Oh, and MissD: swivel knives, moldering back issues of LHJ and polymer-based guck at twenty paces. This could be the reality show that puts all others to shame…
ms-xeno–I love your work. tis the wickedly simplistic 50’s and 60’s that keep giving us hangovers.
LHJ did contribute some towards modern American domestic architecture. As did Sunset on the west coast.Clifford May, etc.
Rotfl, ms xeno, imo you are priceless – and so is everyone else here. Same message to Alan Smithee, the man is a genius and will go down in blogtotopia (yes, I know, Skippy coined that phrase) history for his ‘Banned by Daily Kos’ decals or whatever they are. Btw, they would make a good product to sell in our Big Tent Boutique.
A harmonica would be great. We can make a campfire and sing and get drunk or whatever. And I will never give up coffee either. I’ll stack up on refined sugar.
I noticed on Thom’s blog he has this as a banner:
Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It’s hot in the summer and cold in the winter. Its round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you’ve got about a hundred years here. There’s only one rule that I know of, babies–: God damn it, you’ve got to be kind.” —Kurt Vonnegut, God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater
See? Life is short, at the outside as K.Vonnegut says, we have only 100 years. Why not enjoy them once in a while? Since we all die in the end anyway no matter what we do! 🙂
Robbie Fulks was great.
Life blesses us w/ artists … I’m glad that somewhere along the way I learned to appreciate them.
Oh, and now some Freddie Mercury that I recorded on Logo while I was out. This straight white suburban boy learned that it was okay to NOT fit in listening to Queen. I’m not much for celebrity, but I cried when Freddie died.
life is short.
and so am I.
Oh, all right, S.B. Anything for a comped or tax-deductable trip to LI.
Oooh, we could form a ‘pack’ – well, a ‘pac’ would be better for tax-deduction purposes – lol! Now definitely off to read Thom’s email exchange with Samuel Lipari –
A military wife tells off William “the Bloody” Kristol.
Okay, one more thing, well two now that I read Mitm’s post. Glad you got in and had a good time, Mitm – I’m not familiar with Robbie Fulks though.
I meant to say that Bhhm’s latest tableau of the fading stars (and wannabe stars) of Daily Kos was hillarious as usual. They are waning, for sure. WE are the future of the blogosphere! The zzzzz listers, the banned, the Independents, the malcontents! They blew it when they cast off the real stars of the blogosphere in favor of the mediocre, the sychophants, the sucker-uppers!
And Miss D, there are ‘good goods in small packages’ btw – now back to work, again.
LOL someone just popped me this.
Speaking of fading stars and table service in questionable restaurants (a la BHHM)
I’ll get back to blogging eventually. Lost my inspiration due to several factors, including silly ones like getting dumped by a tender flower (who wore hobnail boots while dancing on my emotions). Depression sux, and I guess only about three VAGs read the thing anyway. Be prepared for a Slice o’ Life topic where my misplaced trust in the female half of the species, at least the part that of which I’m attracted to, is discussed. Please try to look kindly upon my stupidity.
Saw a piece on ABC online about the Danes being the happiest people in the world. Had to do with their less competitive nature and lowered expectations. Eat your salt cod and be happy it’s on your plate! My kind of people
Kevin
I saw some coverage last month on a few news sites about Kos banning some internationaly famous author because of that rule. Of course it was really about the author upsetting the AIPAC overlords and not really about copyright.
LOL!!!!
It its so f’ing inmportant to Kos trhat there be no copyright viloations why didnt they edit the stupid diary instead of leaving it stand for days waiting for MSOC to get around to it.
they deserve each other. Sorry to be blunt. Maybe the use he got out of her wore out.
Re: health care.
Here’s how it’s done in Croatia, a country with a per capita income of $13,000.
Everyone is covered under the national health plan. If you’re working, you pay into the system depending upon your income, but for everyone, it’s around 50 Euros a month. If you’re unemployed or retired, it costs nothing.
For us immigrants, the same rule applies, except that we each must pay 50 Euros a month. It’s part of the process of obtaining residency: you register and they bill you. If you’re employed, the company pays.
What’s covered? Doctor visits, major medical, dental and prescriptions. They even pay partial on eyeglasses (not contacts) and orthodontic work. There are occasionally some small co-pays. My spouse requires a regular test that costs $400 back in the States and always fell in our deductible. Here, there’s a co-pay of 7 Euros.
What’s the quality of the care? The medical professionals are well-trained, and most speak English. They have up-to-date equipment (the machine used for my spouse’s test is more advanced than what was used in the U. S.). The hospital where we live is out of the 1950’s though. It’s very clean, but the wards are large with no privacy. But construction is about to start on a new hospital.
My spouse’s care has been better. The doctor has done a much better job explaining her illness and the effects of her medication. A British friend of ours had a stroke here, and the quality of the care was good, but he did find the communication issues to be frustrating with such a serious illness.
But single payer health care can be done, and it need not bankrupt the nation.
BTW, talking about national health and economic fairness, look at the Gini coefficients of countries, and then consider which ones have national health care. Croatia is not nearly as rich as Germany or Finland, but it has about the same Gini co (29). The U. S. number (41) puts it in same ballpark with developing countries in South America, Africa and Asia.
New Thread:
YUM!