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Have a laugh at the clowns thread… 30 April 2007

Posted by marisacat in DC Politics, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.


I am running slow, gatos need feed and watering and I need coffee… 8)

So, Enjoy!




1. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

Afternoon vipes. Just catching up on the last two threads. I guess I missed some drama this weekend.

Ya’ll amuse & inform, as always.

2. missdevore - 30 April 2007

lucid–I think the proverbial fat ladies haven’t even started rehearsing.–I’ve asked BHHM to translate the Passion Play into a form of vagalese we can all understand.

3. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

Yes – I noticed he got a start on it in the last thread. It looks promising. Maybe when there is more of the passion ferreted out, I could sit down and transform it into a musical – hey maybe we could even get a reality show to allow tv viewers to choose the cast! We could stage at yearly vags and sell cd’s in our tented boutique.

The last refuge of the damned indeed [sorry forgot who said that last thread].

4. marisacat - 30 April 2007

well originally was said by NonPartisan… when he dropped in jan 2 and got vewy vewy upset at me/with me/whatever.

Corner of corners, last refuge of the damned. he claimed to be weeping. raged across two threads.

they get pissed I am harsh about Democrats and Blahgers.



Speaking of the damned … Tony Snow back at the helm.

5. aemd - 30 April 2007

A bit late, sorry, life kinda hit the fan…

Ms Cat, happy blog birthday and thanks for providing a place to rant, swap information and get a so needed laugh. Good readin’, good popcorn and good drinks. Doesn’t get better than that. 😎

Better put on a pot, got some catchin’ up to do.

6. jam.fuse - 30 April 2007

oh my godesss it is soooo beautiful out now 2.21pm tri-state area must be like that left coast is all the time I heard

out to the film lab asta later

7. missdevore - 30 April 2007

“BBBs-The Musical” ms_xeno, catnip, Tuston et al. can do set design (I do envision a lot of blow-up dolls on stage–And pallets of canned cat food.) you can do the score. the paine would also be a good writer. it would all be so very far off-broadway. could even be virtual.

8. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

jam.fuse – know what you’re sayin’. Just stepped out of the office to get some lunch & really didn’t want to come back inside. I missed the lovely weekend because of a long recording session… 😦

MissD – we’d definitely have to put a pole somewhere prominently on the set & get some Bob Fosse-esque choreography going [I’m thinking something along the lines of the ‘musical’ put together in “All That Jazz”].

Any ideas on casting?

Mcat – I seem to recall that. It was right around the time I started reading here regularly.

9. marisacat - 30 April 2007

hmm there is a multi-pager profile of Obama up in The New Yorker.

Some disturbing takes on his mother (page 4), he appears to think her life was disjointed due to secular humanism.

Then this on page 5:

Later, rejecting the agnosticism of his parents and his own skeptical instincts, he became a Christian and joined a church.

“I came to realize,” he wrote in his second book, “The Audacity of Hope,” that “without an unequivocal commitment to a particular community of faith, I would be consigned at some level to always remain apart, free in the way that my mother was free, but also alone in the same ways that she was ultimately alone.”

They are gonna shove it down our throats, from their own fears and limitations.


Then this, also on page 5. No surprise he won’t be fighting for anything other than fitting in fully in the white world:

The victory of freedom over history is not just, of course, an American story about individuals but also a story that America tells about itself. Obama rejects this story even in one of its most persuasive incarnations, the civil-rights movement.

He calls the “spirit that would grip the nation for that fleeting period between Kennedy’s election and the passage of the Voting Rights Act: the seeming triumph of universalism over parochialism and narrow-mindedness” a “useful fiction, one that haunts me . . . evoking as it does some lost Eden.” When it seems that history has been defeated, that is only an illusion produced by charisma and rhetoric.

PROFOUND ignorance of the post war legislation that TRIED to move the nation forward. Nor did that legislation happen in some “charisma and rhetoric” charged bubble….

What an asshole.

10. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 April 2007

Would it be too vague to call this ‘way, way off-Broadway’ production ‘Deliverance’? Mmm, or maybe ‘When they began the begones’

I’ll have to wait for Bhhm to answer this, but isn’t there a wise old saying warning about letting camels get their noses inside big tents?

Lucid, modern jazz (dancing) ala Bob Fosse is the best – and a pole is absolutely a must. Tuston has already been informed.

Casting? I wouldn’t be surprised if the originals might volunteer to play themselves!

11. missdevore - 30 April 2007

“YKos is not affiliated with DKos — banned users ARE welcome at YKos.

I checked.

And I’ll be there.

-9.63, -7.03 If I can’t rant, I don’t want to be part of your revolution.
by: Maryscott O’Connor ”

just call out her name…..

12. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

I wouldn’t be surprised if the originals might volunteer to play themselves!


I don’t think I would ever want to suffer through listening to DHinMI and LOA attempt singing a duet [then again MSOC was an actress, so she might be able to pull it off]… I’m sure, however, their egos would demand that they play themselves.

13. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

Mcat – Obama is increasingly showing himself to be a jackass – too weak kneed to stand by the secular humanism of his parents & too mired in the political establishment to understand that history is changed by individuals – and do I hear a distinct backhanded slap of MLK in that second paragraph as a charismatic charlattan? If only Imus had said something like that I’m sure the sensitive folk at Dkos would be calling for his head.

14. marisacat - 30 April 2007

Rank asshole. Appalling.

page 5 is riddled with sink holes. I have to take a break before surging on to page 6.

A pat the children on the head dismissal of single payer.

What a wannabe overseer for the white man.

We have enough of those. No wonder the Big Bush Supporters are split between Goldwater Girl and Someone Embarrassed by MLK but willing to shill in Selma. with Hillary.

15. missdevore - 30 April 2007

from aljazerra in english:

“The sound of sirens coming from the Green Zone could be heard across the city after the blasts after nightfall on Monday, which sounded like mortar bombs or rockets.

Smoke was seen rising from the government compound at the Green Zone which houses the US and British embassies as well as Iraqi government buildings. “

16. marisacat - 30 April 2007

hmmm. We’re safe from genital mutilation with Obama. But just because he says it is not culturally appropriate NOW. What if some religionist changes his christian mind? being so respectful and all.

Lord spare me the fakers (page 7)

“To go in the face of people with religious convictions—that’s something he’d be very reluctant to do.” This is not, Sunstein believes, due only to pragmatism;

it also stems from a sense that there is something worthy of respect in a strong and widespread moral feeling, even if it’s wrong.

“Rawls talks about civic toleration as a modus vivendi, a way that we can live together, and some liberals think that way,” Sunstein says. “But I think with Obama it’s more like Learned Hand when he said, ‘The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right.’ Obama takes that really seriously. I think the reason that conservatives are O.K. with him is both that he might agree with them on some issues and that even if he comes down on a different side, he knows he might be wrong. I can’t think of an American politician who has thought in that way, ever.”

[oh please! conservatives especially the reactionary model about in the land, sense whom they can manipulate. WHo will FRONT for them – Mcat]

Obama is, in fact, committed to respecting the opinions or cultures of others even when religious beliefs aren’t involved. “There are universal values that I will fight for,” he says.

“I think there may have been a time and a place in which genital mutilation was culturally appropriate, but those times are over.

I’m not somebody who believes that our foreign policy has to be driven by moral relativism. What I do believe is that we have to apply judgment and a sense of proportion to how change happens in any society—to promote our ideals and our values with some sense of humility.”

17. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

“I think there may have been a time and a place in which genital mutilation was culturally appropriate

Ah, when exactly was it ever appropriate? And how is freedom from genital mutilation not a “universal value” that you would fight for? Because universal means, you know, that gential mutilation is universally wrong.

18. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 April 2007

I think we should start taking bets on who these ‘we didn’t have sex with those women’ witnesses/clients of the DC Madame, might be?

DC Madame

So who’s up next? ABC News — where Brian Ross and TPM alum Justin Rood are on the case — has Palfrey’s phone records for the past four years. This morning, they report that “also on Palfrey’s list of customers who could be potential witnesses are a Bush administration economist, the head of a conservative think tank, a prominent CEO, several lobbyists and a handful of military officials.”

Expect some of that to come out this Friday, during Palfrey’s star turn on 20/20.

Imagine, a whole chorus of Republican hypocrites chanting and waving their fingers ‘I did NOT have sex with those women’! Lol! What a great cartoon someone could create out of this.

I think this DC Madame has a sense of humor. She does have a legal background. Just heard on the radio. She apologized to ‘Randy’ Tobias but explained that it was the government’s fault that she needs witnesses to help defend herself from criminal charges. Meantime Randy is ordering from a Central American service now, as far as we know.

Btw, shouldn’t the FBI be looking into this? Because when he said that, I remembered some of the evidence in the Hookergate/Cunningham/Foggo/Wilkes/Wade/Limo/Homeland Security scandal, that Wade was known to hire prostitutes for his clients when they went to Central America. He was also said to have performed with the prostitutes in public. Your tax dollars and money for the troops at work!

So far, the connection between the DC Madame and ‘Hookergate’ has not been made, if there is one. There were hookers, according to the evidence, although people like Chertoff (who admits to being at some of the parties thrown by Wilkes) deny seeing any prostitutes at the parties. Just poker and cigars! Again, money for the troops!

When will a Democrat ask just how that money has been spent? We know how the other ‘Randy’ (Cunningham) spent some of it.

19. marisacat - 30 April 2007

The deep knee bend from them all to religion is just appalling. The Edwards don’t invoke “jesus” or overt religiosity but they invoke hidebound tradition and a lot of the certified code words for “the poor must be responsible”..

Bad line up.

20. marisacat - 30 April 2007

LOL whereever there are pols there are working men and women. Never fails. Sounds like Palfrey has a lot of ammunition.



Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:




Big Lying Boyz to the Center Ring. Top Card fight.


21. JJB - 30 April 2007

Sounds to me like ABC News is going full-speed ahead into sweeps season with this stuff.

22. Marie - 30 April 2007

So far, the connection between the DC Madame and ‘Hookergate’ has not been made, if there is one.

If not (?), then there should be at least one more DC Madame, unless the hookers were flown in from somewhere else which only means that they should be looking at the xx Madame.

If Bu$hCo weren’t so pathetically bad at connecting dots (along with everything else), they never would have let the right hand at the FBI look into DC Madame. On this one the GOP is being hoisted on Ashcroft’s and Abu’s relentless search for hookers.

23. earth to meg - 30 April 2007

Obama is turning out to be much worse than anybody could have imagined. Talk about a religionist, reminding us of our “moral obligations” blah blah blah. Family does a better job than government. If that isn’t code for “I don’t give a shit about the poor,” I don’t know what is.

They all make me ill.

24. marisacat - 30 April 2007

And this decision ws 8/1… Stevens the lone dissenter. via Bloomberg

Police Can Force Fleeing Suspects to Crash, Top U.S. Court Says

By Greg Stohr

April 30 (Bloomberg) — Police officers can end a high- speed chase that threatens innocent bystanders by forcing a fleeing suspect’s car to crash, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled.

The justices, voting 8-1, said a Georgia police officer didn’t violate the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment by bumping a car that was traveling as fast as 90 miles an hour on a two-lane highway. The car’s driver, Victor Harris, crashed and was rendered a quadriplegic.

Writing for the court, Justice Antonin Scalia said Harris had put officers and bystanders at “great risk of serious injury.” He called the pursuit “a Hollywood-style car chase of the most frightening sort.”

Police began pursuing Harris, then 19, after clocking him driving 73 miles per hour in a 55-mile-per hour zone in March 2001. A videotape shows that police pursued Harris for six minutes. During that time he averaged more than 80 miles an hour, crossed the double yellow line to pass other cars and may have run two red lights.

The court took the unprecedented step of posting the videotape on its Web site along with the opinion.

I suppose they are shipping a white bronco to the border with Iran…

25. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 April 2007

If Bu$hCo weren’t so pathetically bad at connecting dots (along with everything else), they never would have let the right hand at the FBI look into DC Madame. On this one the GOP is being hoisted on Ashcroft’s and Abu’s relentless search for hookers.

Lol, Marie, I think you nailed it. Their blind, religious fanaticism may have blinded them to the danger of going after any DC madame.

I have a feeling also that some in the DOJ wanted to nail them, because despite party affiliation, there were decent people there trying to do their jobs and as several have said, the environment was ‘toxic’ as Bush and his minions stacked the Justice Dept. with religious fanatics and drove out anyone who did not fit their taliban-like requirements.

For the record though, most of those who have been following the Hookergate/Defense contractor scandal, do believe that this is, at least one of the agencies used by the debauched, sleazy men who took over our government

It’s interesting that some of the women from the agency were Scientists, College Professors eg, you have to wonder why they would have felt the need to entertain these men for money. I’m sure they could have met them socially, at least some of them.

Maybe this was a trap? A way to blackmail people. Not that the Madame would have known, but there could have been plants who answered her ads. Just wondering.

26. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

SB – I’ve long been suspicious that it was through shite like this that party insiders have been able to keep anyone from talking. You know – a ‘Rove knows you’ve been sleeping with prostitutes, so don’t step out of line or political career is over’ sort of a thing.

27. marisacat - 30 April 2007

Rove is quintessentially a blackmailer. IMO.

And frankly this, so much of the “this” that is happening, ws put in deep freeze in 04.

There were small burbles early on, but then scandal, leaks dried up hard as it moved from Spring to Summer. Another reason Kerry was not going to win, hook or crook.

The parties, both of thm imo, are on a roll to 08.

28. marisacat - 30 April 2007


thanks… 8)

29. marisacat - 30 April 2007

Michael Wolff unblocked in Vanity Fair on Crazy Rudy.

Reminds me that… maybe 20 years ago? (New Yorkers will remember the Rudi timeline better than I) when he was a… prosecutor? DA? not sure but in that wretched prosecutorial slot where “white ethnic” parochial school boys with a mean streak often end up… he was on the TOnight Show.

Sublimely entertaining. Very amusing, witty, smart and engrossing on opera… but, gee!, I was not taken in.

Always been a shite.

30. marisacat - 30 April 2007

wellllll… listening to Boren (Dem of OK, former chair of the Intel Committee that Tenet worked on as an aide) defend defend defend Tenet on Lehrer. It ain’t pretty.

Such sell outs.

Larry Johnson chewing his teeth off.

And over at leftischer swamp… Armando is in full peacock. What a hoot.

Soooo entertaining…

NOW they all wanna call Dkos out. Too late too late. And too late.

What a gathering of those who felt treats and sweets were to be theirs.

31. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 April 2007

Always been a shite.

Yeah, and that’s why I was shocked to see him elevated the way he was after 9/11 with no one daring to speak out and tell the truth. He is and always was a thug. His insistence on building a command center in the WTC complex was so controversial, but he stubbornly refused to listen to anyone. Not to mention his insisting that NYC was the safest city in the world so ‘come shop’ etc. He did nothing either to prevent a terrorist attack (despite warnings and uncovered plots) or afterwards to protect the rescue workers as we now know.

The only good thing about him running for president is that the myth they created (like the Pat Tillman/Jessica Lynch myths) will be revealed.

Lucid, I agree re blackmail – and I’m sure there are Dems on the DC Madam’s list which might explain why they did not push the Hookergate investigation either.

Just heard that Ms Palfrey will have her ‘black book’ with her on 20/20 on Friday night. I hope she has protection. As Ed Rollins said to Charlie Rose last summer, DC is quaking in their boots in fear of what might be revealed from the Defense Contractor Scandal.

This might be one way to clean out the government – and start all over again.

Oh, and re Kos’ ‘Rules’ claims wrt copyright issues. Airc, he posted a diary after the Opol copyright debacle (started by Major Danby) saying that he had permission to use material from several media sources on his FP. But that diarists and commenters were responsible for anything they posted that might be a copyright violation. He was not responsible for what they did once he covered himself, he said. Basically, airc, he said he was no one’s daddy and that they were ‘on their own’ and could take whatever risks they wanted.

I would search for the diary, but don’t want to waste time right now. Iow, his claims this weekend, and those of his supporters (re the reason for banning msoc) were a direct contradiction of what he said in that diary. But what else is new? The ever-shifting rules of DK.

32. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 April 2007

Boren is also the president of Oklahoma U. I remember that from the Nick Berg case (he went to Oklama). The college seems to have had a few direct connections to 9/11. We found out that a few colleges (Nick Berg attended four altogether) have CIA connections. Pretty spooky (pun intended) imo.

Tenet was a protege of Boren, airc, so it’s no surprise he would defend him. They think we are all as stupidly ignorant as we were before 9/11. Who knows what they are and have been up to, but I’m sure none of it is for our benefit.

33. marisacat - 30 April 2007

Yes Boren is a classic authoritarian. Pro Life too iirc.

34. Kevin Lynch - 30 April 2007

Hey, better late than never. Right? Unfortunately, I wasn’t banned at dKos. Never felt that I had enough to say to warrant diarying and my comments weren’t often enough to irritate anyone. Was it a lack of courage? Maybe. Glad I decided to leave the place and poke my head in here, though.

Boy, I’m glad it wasn’t the woman of my dreams! Just the latest dreamy woman. The shame of it all is that there are several women on the staff at school who would go out with me, and one who did, but it’s against school policy. I almost got one very sweet woman fired! Pity that most of the student ladies are mercurial of temperment. But, I ramble. If you need a pop-psychology profile or a tasty meal cooked, call me. If you need dating advice? Better not..


35. marisacat - 30 April 2007

Sorry! it does not get much more DLC than the head of the DLC in SOUTH CAROLINA:

April 30, 2007

Inbox, Outbox, 4/30

The latest Charlie Cook/RT Strategies poll shows a statistically significant narrowing of Hlilary Clinton’s lead, and decline in Rudy Giuliani’s margin over John McCain.

Barack Obama released more than a dozen South Carolina endorsement today,

including Phil Noble, the pres of the SC branch of the DLC,

ex-Senate candidate Inez Tennenbaum, and ex-SC Dem chair Dick Harpootlian. Remember that Mr. Harpootlian was a fan of Mark Warner’s before it was cool to be a fan of Mark Warner’s.

From Hotline on Call at the National Journal.

36. D. Throat - 30 April 2007

Ahhhh… the lovely Dick Harpootlian.

Why am I not surprised Obama would weasel up to some one like this. Remember he is the guy that once said in mixed company..“I don’t want to buy the Black vote, I just want to rent it for one day”…

Hahahaha…. what a funny guy….like Black people don’t know that the Democratic party is only interested in them one day every four years….

A comment like this on Dkos would bring a torrent of verbage exclaiming that I was politically naive… as if it is politically astute to give cover to people and institutions that hate your guts.

37. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 April 2007

“I came to realize,” he wrote in his second book, “The Audacity of Hope,” that “without an unequivocal commitment to a particular community of faith, I would be consigned at some level to always remain apart, free in the way that my mother was free, but also alone in the same ways that she was ultimately alone.”

That’s exactly WHY I’m happy I’m an atheist & humanist. My connections, my friends, my commitments, are MINE, chosen BY ME, not a byproduct of some ready-made commitment factory. Life is mine to make, or to fail to make, as I see fit. My choices, my values, my triumphs and my mistakes … ALL of it. Human beings are HUMAN because they’re adaptable, because they can choose their connections, because they aren’t limited by their genetics or environment, because they can REMAKE themselves, remake their world, remake their values … an endless joyous ongoing experiment, performance art for an audience that you choose. WHY, WHY, WHY do people shy away from the beauty and fear and wonder of surrendering to possibility?

He’s obviously a smart and talented man, yet he hides his potential under a moldy old sack woven by a never-there god and His syphalitic self-loathing pharisees. Sad, so much potential lost to the yearning to run with a dumb herd morality.

38. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 April 2007

This is funny. I haven’t clicked all the links, but it seems the DC Madam needs our help to identify some of her former clients. Here’s a link to a DU thread where they are working on it:

DC Madam Wants Public/Press’ help Identifying client

I think there are phone #s that need to be connected to names. Looks like a few of them found some names already.

It’s really sad though, that it is this story the media is covering, after all the crimes committed that they refused to cover. I know we used to joke that if only there was some sex involved, then they would be interested. I never thought Repubs would be this stupid, Foley, Haggard et al, and now this.

Sad that we care more about what people do in their private lives than the crimes they commit publicly. But their hypocrisy does need to be exposed. Their sanctimonious preaching about ‘morals’ is being revealed for what it is.

39. marisacat - 30 April 2007

They bitch, they moan, they never leave home… catch the slobber for “calitics”…why it almost sounds INDEPENDENT.

[T]here is an instructive contrast here.

Over at Calitics there is a fine young crew of progressives who are trying to work their way into the halls of Democratic power. Over the weekend they all attended the state Democratic convention in San Diego. Their coverage was utterly fascinating.

You could see them full of progressive energy and dedication, and recoiling in anger at some of the bullshit moves pulled by the establishment to block progressive resolutions on Iraq and Net Neutrality. You can watch them working out their relationship with the system, trying to figure out how to make their very progressive and small-d democratic goals into reality within the existing system. Maybe they’ll succeed, maybe they’ll be demobilized and frustrated, who knows. But they strike me as much more an authentic representation of the movement we all thought we were starting in 2003-04.

by: eugene @ Mon Apr 30, 2007 at 08:19:12 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

Oh puhleeeze.

But its a sponsored site by Kos (180 a year) and blogswarm (eugene still says DH outed him, LOL) and hekebolos and others participate there.

And catch how quoted Calitics is at Blogometer. LOL Cannot be the only CA blog at the CA DP convention.. but it is heavily quoted. Blue Hampshire should be jealous. LOL.

They never leave home, always working the Treats and Sweets route.

40. marisacat - 30 April 2007

well Democrats knew they needed to pop the zit that was Foley in the run up. I mean people swung to attention (just long enough) over Foley in a way they had not, not really, for the war.

And they never really dealt with the massive hypcrisy of his positions in congress, his pivotal power on child abuse, child exploitation, child stranger abduction, etc., laws.

That was allowed to wither. And frankly, even iwth great problems, the man, the Republican, who ran in his place who had to ask people to pull the lever FOR Foley, did very well. more than 48%.

I am not expecting the Dem who did win, Mohoney to make it next time. Not aht it matters, a former Republican, self funder.

So the networks get a sex scandal again, in time for sweeps, the Dems get a push off toward 08… one that may keep giving… and probably scrambling around to make deals to protect thsi or that known Dem name.


41. D. Throat - 30 April 2007

Why is Eugene talking in the third person… about himself? Isn’t he Calitics…and wasn’t it him that was at the CA Dem convention.

They are dreaming of he day that they too can have a piano….

42. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 April 2007

Funny, is eugene part of it all or just unaware? But I would never take advice from anyone associated with DK anyway. And thanks for the warning about hekebolos, a particularly clueless poster along with his brother, although ambitious and self-serving beyond belief, as the clueless often are. Wasn’t planning to click there anyway.

Down, down, down go kos ratings. The rankiings are especially interesting when compared to HuffPost. DK is now = 4306, HP = 2699. If the Blogging Curmudgeon is right, kos better sell fast!

Alexa Rankins DK

And it’s all his own fault – he doesn’t get that what drew people there in the first place, were the individual writers, most of whom are gone, or banned now. What’s left is dry, boring analyses of elections and thuggery, rules and yawn-inducing front page posts. DU is far more interesting imo. And way ahead on getting out breaking news fast. Along with several other blogs most of whom have some simple rules which everyone understands and don’t need the constant diaries ominously warning everyone about rules, rules and more rules.

‘An overlawed society is a failed society’ – I forget who said that.

All that’s left of dk is a few bullies with zero power, which they crave, outside of their ever-shrinking ‘community’. And I am glad because of the harm they have done.

43. marisacat - 30 April 2007

I dunno. I thought eugene was farther north, in the NW somewhere. Or, maybe he is back in CA. LOL I don’t keep track tho they think I do.

I drop in once in a great while at Calitics. And not at all since they took the buy-in.

thanks DT, I will swing by.

44. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 April 2007

Sadly, not a surprise:

WASHINGTON — Black, Hispanic and white drivers are equally likely to be pulled over by police, but blacks and Hispanics are much more likely to be searched and arrested, a federal study found.

Police were much more likely to threaten or use force against blacks and Hispanics than against whites in any encounter, whether at a traffic stop or elsewhere, according to the Justice Department.

The study, released Sunday by the department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, covered police contacts with the public during 2005 and was based on interviews by the Census Bureau with nearly 64,000 people age 16 or over.

“The numbers are very consistent” with those found in a similar study of police-public contacts in 2002, bureau statistician Matthew R. Durose, the report’s co-author, said in an interview. “There’s some stability in the findings over these three years.”

45. marisacat - 30 April 2007


Oh I don’t think eugene is unaware at all. Long time side kick for Armando.

It’s my take that the [cough choke strangle] high profile bannings are due to DH being in the ascendant.

Poeple who played along iwth the Boyz ended up having to choose sides. Not recently either, quite some time agao… DH stood apart from quite a few of the Boyz. It’s my understanding that Stoller and Armstrong kept him off the TownHouse email list, as example.

nasty bullies all. One reason so many people are dirtied by the games, they wanted things and as divisions occured between DH and others, people had to choose sides.

Msock does not allude to that at all. She claims to be a victim at Dkos for her Great Lefty Self. For her LOL principles.

Such tired bullshit.

One reason a lot of the moaning at MLW is just rank loser whining. The game at Kos shifted against them. Nothing more. (IMO)

46. missdevore - 30 April 2007

just finished the new yorker article on Obama. the stuff about genital mutilation perhaps being ok at one time, seemed dumb. otherwise, I do not think he wants to shove religion down people’s throats.

I’m not wowed, but I don’t think he’s frightening.

47. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 April 2007

An audio recording made when National Guard troops killed four Kent State University students during an anti-war demonstration could resolve the mystery of whether a command to fire was issued and may offer a chance for healing for victims and shooters, a survivor said Monday.

“We’re not seeking revenge; we’re not seeking punishment for the Guardsmen at this late date,” said Alan Canfora, wounded in the wrist during the confrontation 37 years ago.

“All we want is the truth because we seek healing at Kent State for the student victims, as well as the triggermen who were ordered to fire. And healing can only result from the truth, and that’s all we want.”

He wants the government to reopen the case.[snip]

Canfora said he recently requested a copy of the nearly 30-minute tape from Yale University, where a government copy has been stored in an archive.

He says that just before the 13-second volley of gunfire, a voice on the tape is heard yelling, “Right here! Get Set! Point! Fire!”

Canfora said he was convinced from his research _ including other tapes and photos _ that the command was issued by one of three Guard officers at the shooting site.

“The time has now come to where it’s impossible to deny the verbal command to fire,” Canfora said.

48. marisacat - 30 April 2007

well nobody other than Gravel and Kucinich of the slouches running for president will say a word about Kent State.

So long ago, people died. War issues. Protestors.. Run, and run fast from it.

49. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

Well you know mcat, in the eyes of so-called ‘progressive’ dems, those dirty hippies got what was coming to them…

I’m glad to see that justice might finally be served in this case.

50. ms_xeno - 30 April 2007

See Amanda spin like a pro, almost totally side-stepping NZ Anarchist Maia’s points in this thread about Pollit:

Spin Amanda !! SPIN !!!

She’ll get back in Eddie’s gold-bestowing graces yet, at this rate.

Yes, let’s fund family planning in parts of the 3rd World while our manly male candidates bomb the fuck out of families in some less-favored part of it. Beautiful.


51. ms_xeno - 30 April 2007

Miss D: (#7)

You did know that they make sex dolls for male dogs nowadays, right ? I think the poodle-sized edition should also be an integral part of our musical extravaganza. I visualize them dipped in electric blue glitter and tossed into the audience just as they get up for Intermission.

52. marisacat - 30 April 2007

hmm my what a stern lecturer she is of people pointing out the truth.

And thanks for this link as it is the most concise and succinct grasp, giving nothing up to the brevity of it, on 76 and the Henry Hyde Amendment that I have read. Nasty old fraud.

To me the game gets greasy when they take party / candidate / campaign money.

Then it is just about CASH and Treats and Sweets.

LOL She will keep supporting the party as they recruit more and more hard core pro lifers.

53. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

Miss X, btw – a couple of threads ago on Chan. I guess I can see how she’s not everyone’s cup of tea. I just remember in my mid 20’s when Moon Pix came out, I had found something to fall asleep to every night that pretty closely expressed the jaded depression of that period in my life. It still resonates with me very deeply – particularly the song I quoted. I also like the one previous & the “I Am Free” one. I really don’t like the Nashville one from a year or so back… then again, she’s sober now which is probably why I think it sounds way too polished.

54. ms_xeno - 30 April 2007

Amp goes on about the same thing. I will vote DP so long as one woman overseas needs free condoms and infant careblah fucking blah.

Well, fuck it. Pehaps it’s the nefarious influence of people like IOZ, but frankly I’m sick of this shit whether spouted by friend or virtual stranger. Who the fuck made us God, capriciously deciding that today we’ll blow up some families but tomorrow we’ll give them free medical care ?

I hate to say it, but those mothers and infants we save are nothing in numbers compared to how many we end up murdering in places like Iraq. I’d say the condoms and the bombs are two sides of the same coin, except that there’s no such thing as a coin where one side in a hundred times bigger in diameter than the other.

“We can’t afford to play around,” quoth the Almighty Marcotte. No, we’ll just sit in a corner and diddle ourselves into oblivion a la’ Pollit, pretending that it doesn’t matter what the party affiliations of anti-choicers are until we get permission to say that it matters (ie– Whenever the prospect of 3rd Party challenges rears its ugly head.)

And tell me again why anyone should expect the DP to stop the rollbacks of rights overseas, when they cannot even be stirred on their own watch to stop them here ?

I feel ill.

55. marisacat - 30 April 2007

hmm I just remembered that in the 108th Congress, the one that saw the S 3 “PBA” bill… ws also (among 5 pro life votes) the bill banning abortion access in overseas mil hospitals.

Reid voted for it. WIll hunt for the roll call on that one. And the story that has emerged about abortion for instance in Iraq for women in the mil is not pretty. Will google and see if I can find it all again. Oh it’s available, off base.

Myself, the Dems go in, I expect a big showy version of 6 in 100 hours again. A little here and there on global gag rule but nothing like what it should be and further, I surely do nto expect the religious offices in the West Wing to be emptied and filled iwth rights groups access.

IMO both parties are pro life, the Dems mouth what they have to, to snow the elctorate not interested in poking around.

56. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

Further thoughts on costume design for “The Blahgue” musical – I recall seeing a short running musical about 8 years ago called ‘The Green Bird’ – it was a rather paltry Jungian psychoanalytic look at something – but the way in which it was expressed was by have all of the characters where these elaborate Janus faced masks, representing their splintered personalities. I think this might be a good design motif in the costume department, as it is rather spot on with blog personalities.

57. ms_xeno - 30 April 2007

Lucid, Aiko Shimada serves that function for me, or Lisa Germano. 😉

Oh, and thanks for your earlier response about NYC. I was at work and couldn’t reply. But, yeah, the plague is everywhere now. Every time I think about last week and the reaction of my so-called neighbors to this shit, I start fuming all over again.

58. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

Has Pollit changed her views? I seem to recall her Nation columns in the ’90’s on abortion as being pretty spot on. What I’ve seen in links lately seems like a pale facsimile of what she used to write.

59. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

Lisa Germano’s dad taught me how to play violin. And her aunt was my Senior year Enlish teacher… and she played in the high school orchestra with my brother…

“Love Circus” is one of my favorite albums of all time [and very apt for this site given the cat motif in places]. 🙂

I’ll have to check out Aiko Shimada – if it’s in the same vein, I’m sure I’ll love it.

60. ms_xeno - 30 April 2007

She’s still pro-choice, lucid. Trouble is she’s also pro-DP and seemingly immune to any cognitive dissonance at all.

It’s the barefaced dishonesty that gets me. She doesn’t mention Hyde or Casey. Amanda mentions Hyde but haughtily informs that back in those mist-shrouded days, it didn’t matter that Democrats masterminded that shit.

Bullshit spans generations.

61. marisacat - 30 April 2007

See this is where it all breaks down. I don’t see that the party has changed that much at all over the years. YES the white flight in the south to the R… I do know aoubt htat.

But now the party wants them back and will purge the party of pro choicers (Rahm was very effective in his recruiting, real emphasis on pro life and pro war… and he and Bill Clinton owrked on a couple of the worst together, they recruited HARD CORE pro lifers, one a card carrying member of the Ohio Right to life).

Frankly, and any l iberal, progressive lefty .. KNOWS that in the face of Bush, if the Democratic party was at all interested in moving forward rather than square dancing with the Republicans THIS was the time to push for progressive candidates and voices.

but the party does not.

Oh the odd “liberal” gets in, Loebsack, Ellison, Cohen in Memphis… and so on. But the party does not push them at all. They love their righties, Blooo Dogs and New Dems.

The party is still speeding ot the right. I just don;t see much difference across 35 + years from the seventies.

Plus an older strain of more liberal Democrat is dying off – it is my understanding that Buddy Roemer was one who felt the party had to be pro choice and was very strong about recruiting… you could personally oppose abortion but you were not to actively campaign with the pro lifers.

All of that is gone. IMO.

That era is dying off.

62. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

All of that is gone. IMO.

That era is dying off.

That was my assessment of the situation in the first presidential election I voted in – 1992. I was already working for a third party in 1994. Like many I flirted again with the dems in 2004, but probably no longer [save the one’s that are worth my vote].

As much as I would hate to say it, the last 30 odd years of corporate deregulation has put all power in the hands of monied interests: they control the agenda; they control the information. We live in an outright fascist state, even if the majority cannot yet see it.

I don’t know the solution, but even if we can’t provide one, I think the earth itself will in short order.

63. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 April 2007

I take some small hope in the increasing number of confrontational hecklers, and I’m not feeling as lonely in my Naderism as I was. Spreading disgust w/ the faux centrism is around, and yes a lot of people want still to believe that the system now can be re-aimed, but the Donks prove over and over again that it can’t, they won’t …

It will take years, it will have to start locally, and a lot of people are going to be swept under the new Gilded Age and the collapse to follow. It will be the mothers and the disgusted vets, spiritual descendents of Smedley Butler, and us Nader cranks who keep reminding people of the scam, of the protection racket … it will take time, but maybe we can remake something out of the police state and the rubble of the inpractical suburbs when the petro & cornsyrup spigots run dry. I take some hope from those protesters at places like the Tacoma, in the flash mobs and you-tube posters of police brutality.

Gonna be ugly, but maybe if it’s lots of people (I figure it would take about 20% of the population supporting a smaller number of direct activists) instead of another easily assassinated savior like MLK or RFK or Malcolm, to maybe rebuild something from the ashes.

Gonna take the ashes first, though.

64. marisacat - 30 April 2007

I take hope in the rise of global resistance. The WTO conferences, Seattle, Tacoma protests at the Strykers being shipped out… and so on. The hard core christian groups that oppose war, like the St Patrick 4 in Binghampton (last I heard they served time for pouring cow’s blood in a rest room at a recruiting center near Binghampton NY, they are peaceful anti war laity, Catholic I think)

South America. With all its stumbles, there is real hope there…

And I have long believed that the whole “GWoT” is staged to put down the global rise of indigenous peoples and other insurgencies.

Sure there is an issue of, for want of a better name, Islamist terror groups.. I am not a fool but it does not have to be the kind of war we have waged for years. And we show no intention of stopping that war.. and it is a war on people.

Being waged at home too.

65. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

Gonna be ugly, but maybe if it’s lots of people (I figure it would take about 20% of the population supporting a smaller number of direct activists) instead of another easily assassinated savior like MLK or RFK or Malcolm, to maybe rebuild something from the ashes.

The days of oratory are definitely done. For one, most people don’t trust the idea of ‘a leader’ anymore. I think that this is actually a positive development. Any movement that will thwart this will most definitely be based in a more anarchist sensibility – the self-effacing, non-demogogic, community based movements which start from the recognition of egalitarianism as the organizing principle. The anti-globalization movement & [real] internet organizing have this as their basic sentiment.

I agree though – between then and now, there’s going to be a lot of hell, and undoubtedly the accompanying violence. It will also be accentuated by environmental catasrophe as we face both peak oil and the effects of global warming. Farming and food commerce will collapse, famine and disease will return in a scale not seen since before the industrial revolution – and because of the abuse of anti-biotics by the current medical regime, we aren’t gonna have defenses against disease.

Somewhere, I still have hope that this won’t happen, but I see increasing indications of it everywhere now – down to the police state policy of our government and the clear free-for-all grab at any capital anyone can get their hands on – as if their money will save them.

66. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 April 2007

Amp goes on about the same thing. I will vote DP so long as one woman overseas needs free condoms and infant careblah fucking blah.

Well, fuck it. Pehaps it’s the nefarious influence of people like IOZ, but frankly I’m sick of this shit whether spouted by friend or virtual stranger. Who the fuck made us God, capriciously deciding that today we’ll blow up some families but tomorrow we’ll give them free medical care ?

I couldn’t agree more, ms xeno –

This is the attitude that makes the world hate America. The first thing that needs to be done is for the Western nations to stop stealing the resources of other nations. Now we are in Africa grabbing their oil. And no doubt, dealing with the worst dictator types, since those are the kind who will sell their own countries to the highest bidder.

Many African countries have refused to accept genetically engineered foods, eg, smart enough to do so, while Americans don’t even question their government’s refusal to lable foods so that they can choose what they are eating. Big corporations are ruining the farming industries in many third world countries creating poverty.

The Marianas Islands scandal is a perfect example of what Americans turn a blind eye to. Slave labor, forced abortions in places where we actually have jurisidiction and we can’t do anything about it.

We need to fix our own house before we try to fix anyone else’s.

That kind of propaganda talk, designed to emotionally manipulate voters, just turns me off completely. I’ve never been to that blog, other than to follow a link once in a while.


I read somewhere today, that the money is pouring into the Dem. Party now that they are in power and that there is a presidential election coming up. The BBBs must be salivating – this is their big chance to cash in. But personally, I think they’ve blown it.

It disgusts me that this all they are in it for. And that they used the sincere concerns (and no, that is NOT a bad word, despite the attempt by those jerks to make it so) about their country of honest people to try to enrich themselves.

67. marisacat - 30 April 2007


there were several articles about the flow of money to the Dems. WSJ Online and politico.com and maybe Wapo too.

Lotta corporate money.

The cash will flow to shut anyone down, outshout anyone, that is not party line.

Oh sure BBB are salivating. I feel one reason Kos does housekeeping for Rahm and Schumer (posts scolds that Dems in congress need to get their contributions in, both senate and house members) is that Kos and other sites are tied to the DSCC and DCCC.

Probably “product enhancement” or some such.

yeah campaign reform did so much, LOL.

The Marcotte comments were so tranparent. Shaking her finger because shutting down dissent is where the cash is. Oh yes very blunt..

Someone should bite that metaphorical finger off.

68. Tuston - 30 April 2007

Buenas Nachos Viboras,

Well the strip club strip down is nearly done and only the sandblasting of the concrete floor (to make it ready for the dyes) is left of the destruction phase and then I get to build, whahoo!

Unfortunately not everything is great in my little corner of the sonoran thorn scrub (we ain’t really a desert in most parts):

Nine high-tech towers will soon loom over the desert southwest of Tucson in the first stage of an effort to put up a virtual border wall.
The 98-foot towers, to be equipped with cameras, radars and sensors, represent a long-overdue and much-needed tool to Border Patrol officials, who say the structures will slow illegal border crossings in the nation’s busiest corridor.
But to residents of Arivaca, the towers are million-dollar eyesores that will blemish their countryside and infringe on their freedom and privacy. They scoff at the government’s notion of a “virtual wall” and say it’s more likely the towers will have virtually no impact.

AZ Daily Star

Fuckers. My buddy’s ranch is right next to the reten and his wife complains about the BP staring out her and her friends when they sunbathe. Imagine the possibilites for peeping toms with these new towers.

BTW Arivaca, the little town mentioned in the article was famous for growing the best cannabis bud in AZ for years but they haven’t grown anything outdoors for years because the BP presence is so oppresive. I

69. marisacat - 30 April 2007

God. that is depressing. HUNDRED foot towers.

70. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

I’ll have to ask my parents about these. I’m sure it will impact their area as well. Eyesores indeed – on such beautiful country no less.

71. bayprairie - 30 April 2007

See Amanda spin like a pro, almost totally side-stepping NZ Anarchist Maia’s points in this thread about Pollit:

she speaks of the hyde amendment as if it occured in some long-distant past. its a FUCKING BUDGET AMENDMENT. and budgets expire. and then the new budget needs a fresh hyde amendment and of course its added, and approved again, year after year.

The Hyde Amendment is reauthorized each year under appropriations bills for the Department of Labor and the Department of Health and Human Services.

“reauthorized yearly” is as current as can be. certainly not “ahistorical”, or even something from america’s misty past.

the democratic party bears a rather large measure of responsibility for the hyde amendment’s passage and the diarist is absolutely correct. the fact remains that members of both parties have participated in the assault on women’s rights.

democrats don’t get a pass just because they would like one.

72. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 April 2007

I actually watched a great ep of Anthony Bourdain’s “No Reservations” last weekend, where he traveled through the Texas/Mexico border regions. Some GREAT stuff about how stupid our border paranoia is, some shots of some of those towers already erected in Texas. Even had a segment where he had a Mexican American contractor hire 6 illegals to build a replica of the wall the Minute”men” want to build. After they built it, he asked them to demonstrate how they could go through, over or under it. Took them a minute or so.

Anyway, a loving depiction of how cultures have no use for borders, how people learn from each other, and how important family and food are for helping us all understand each other.

Did my heart glad (and made me really hungry for real mexican food, and texas border cuisine.

Signs of hope, even in silly food shows.

73. Tuston - 30 April 2007

I wouldn’t expect any towers in Green Valley soon, lucid. Too many affluent white folks there. Same as Tubac. We both got the 15 foot wi-vod towers but those aren’t the same thing by any stretch of the imagination…

74. bayprairie - 30 April 2007

stuck in moderation! help!

75. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 April 2007

Secret Order By Gonzales Delegated Extraordinary Powers To Aides

In the order, Gonzales delegated to his then-chief of staff, D. Kyle Sampson, and his White House liaison “the authority, with the approval of the Attorney General, to take final action in matters pertaining to the appointment, employment, pay, separation, and general administration” of virtually all non-civil-service employees of the Justice Department, including all of the department’s political appointees who do not require Senate confirmation. Monica Goodling became White House liaison in April 2006, the month after Gonzales signed the order.

The existence of the order suggests that a broad effort was under way by the White House to place politically and ideologically loyal appointees throughout the Justice Department, not just at the U.S.-attorney level. Department records show that the personnel authority was delegated to the two aides at about the same time they were working with the White House in planning the firings of a dozen U.S. attorneys, eight of whom were, in fact, later dismissed.

A senior executive branch official familiar with the delegation of authority said in an interview that — as was the case with the firings of the U.S. attorneys and the selection of their replacements — the two aides intended to work closely with White House political aides and the White House counsel’s office in deciding which senior Justice Department officials to dismiss and whom to appoint to their posts. “It was an attempt to make the department more responsive to the political side of the White House and to do it in such a way that people would not know it was going on,” the official said.

Gov’t by politboro.

76. marisacat - 30 April 2007

Biden on Sunday reiterated he opposes federal funds. Cannot ask the religious or those with conscience clause to support abortion. I will find the transcript. he did quite a dance over abortion.

All they want to do is the save the money and shaft the women and they use religion.

77. marisacat - 30 April 2007

bay .. sorry! I was making coffee…

Just let it out.

78. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 April 2007

Tuston, if we didn’t hear from you, I would have no idea what is going on there. That is depressing, more war on more brown people.

Marisacat, someone should bite that metaphorical finger off

We have to do it. You are so right and it’s clearer and clearer each day to me what their role has been. Take Impeachment. I couldn’t believe how DK tried to shut down that debate. They went wild when it was brought up.

HOW DARE THEY! This administration has committed horrific crimes and the so-called biggest liberal blog on the interenet refused to allow any discussion of abiding by the law. I was shocked really, and the stupid, idiotic women who do the bidding of these frauds! Many people were banned during that period also.

So I checked out the blogs today, and here is a clear example of what you just said. DK compared to other blogs which are populated by real citizens who actually care about this country.

Okay, this weekend, all across the country people who have had ENOUGH of the crime, let it be known they want these criminals removed from office.

The media actually covered it – Murtha made some impeachment threats as Bush again, arrogantly refused to consider ending this war.

Now look at what is happening on the blogs. Take DU eg. Someone claimed that Nancy Pelosi is ‘taking calls’ about impeachment in this thread:

Speaker is taking tally for impeachment

Nearly 200 posts on that thread with real activists calling, using their email lists and letting their reps know they better start listening. Before the end of the thread the message boxes are full. And that’s just one thread on DU. No one told them to stop. Someone suggests posting it on other blogs, like (big laugh here) DK. So they do.

Here’s the DK thread and see the pushback from a couple of people, either trying to show that they are in the ‘reality based community’ (I hate that ridiculous phrase) or they are attempting to stop people from ‘bothering’ the speaker. Only 39 posts in that thread because ‘Kossacks’ are afraid. They remember the impeachment wars.

Daily Kos/Speaker taking tally for impeachment

Other blogs are doing the same thing. I will call tomorrow and send the info to my email list. There are crooks in charge of this country and DK has silenced people for far too long. They have contributed nothing, not a thing of value, to stop what caused most of us to get involved in the first place.

Someone on the DU thread noticed the reception on DK. Most people still haven’t caught on to DK, but I have an account on DU, and I think I’m going to start using it and the first thing I will ask DU is why they still have DK on their blogroll, since DK removed them from theirs.

They put down other blogs, like DU – and now I know why. They cannot control those people –

Miss D made an impeachment banner this weekend. Btw, saw it on your blog, Miss D. It looked great. If she had posted that at DK, the usual mob would have told her that she was being politically naive. It is they who are naive. Anyone who wants to call their reps, the phone numbers are listed on both linked threads.

Oh, and btw, lol, no one knows whether Nancy wanted these calls or not, but as some posters on DU said, ‘who cares, she’s getting them anyway even if the info was not true, we should have been doing this all along’. And why weren’t we? Because of operatives telling us not to!


1 (800) 828 – 0498

1 (800) 459 – 1887

1 (800) 614 – 2803

1 (866) 340 – 9281

1 (866) 338 – 1015

1 (877) 851 – 6437

79. colleen - 30 April 2007

And over at leftischer swamp… Armando is in full peacock. What a hoot.
Soooo entertaining…

Fucking hilarious is what it is. I started laughing at the grim reaper graphic and continued to laugh to the end of the thread. . My face is wet, my stomach sore from laughter. Poor emsock, she never did and still does not understand how DK works.

It’s my take that the [cough choke strangle] high profile bannings are due to DH being in the ascendant.

I’ll say. He’s been in ‘the ascendant’ for quite some years now. It’s more his blog than Kos’s by this time. It’s a wonder he has time for his duties as Chief of Staff for Rep. Hodes (D) NH.
Damn, that jackass is going to fall hard when he finally goes, he’s the most disliked individual on the BBB’s.

80. marisacat - 30 April 2007

LOL colleen.. I agree.. what an uninformed thread.

They live in dream land.

Or as SV said, stupid as a box of rocks.



may I cut and paste part of your comment, the part detailing the budget aspect of Hyde Amendment and the yearly renewal, and post it to the thread at Amptoons.

Lemme know. or by email where.is.the.cat@gmail.com

81. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 April 2007

he’s the most disliked individual on the BBB’s

Colleen that’s for sure. Like Bush, he’s a uniter! Just about everyone agrees about that. Even if they are not united about anything else. A hateful individual along with his gloomy sidekick misslaura. I hope SV gets to talk to Hodes.

I’m laughing now. Just checked the FP of Dk and word must be out about the push for impeachment. Right on cue, McJoan has a FP put down of the idea. Well, I think it’s no longer up to Murtha, Democrats, Nancy or anyone else. It’s now up the American people! They must be getting plenty of calls, and sent the memo out to the operatives on the few blogs that are still willing to do their dirty work for them.

Greg Sargent chases down and puts to rest the “Murtha is for impeachment!” story by doing, gasp, reporting. He called Murtha’s office and spoke with his spokesman, Matt Mazonkey. Here’s what Mazonkey said:

“The Congressman was asked about the ways to influence a President. He did list impeachment as one of four ways. He listed public opinion, the election, impeachment, and the power of the purse. But he doesn’t believe that impeachment is appropriate at this time.”

We had an election, public opinion has already turned against the president, impeachment at this point in time is a pipe dream. For Congressional leadership right now the focus is, as it should rightly be, ending this war before the 2008 election.

Nice try. DK doing the Dems dirty work as usual. Shut up those (gasp) citizens.

I’m even more incensed and more motivated to bother them all now. And Dems will pay a price in 2008 if they continue to ignore the people this way. I can’t wait to get them on the phone. Glad she put that up because now I’ll add Murtha to the list.

82. ms_xeno - 30 April 2007

Thank You, bay, SB, and all. You have no idea how much I needed to read all this.

And I’ll take all the links related to Hyde and the rest that anyone cares to post. I’d still like to try writing again for the Smith-Paine collective in a few days, once my show is up and I can finally take a deep breath.

83. ms_xeno - 30 April 2007

Somebody needs to brandish that bullshit DFL-sponsored bill that she was oh-so-in-love with at Ms. Shaking Finger as well. Yes, abortion is so important to her that she’ll shill for the goddamn DFL. And the invulnerability of the two-party wall is so important to her that she’ll cut pro-choice women who despise it dead– or she’ll just sit back in smug silence while her flunkies do it. She’ll just play dumb, treating us like we’re morons with no long-term memory to speak of. Same difference. >:

84. marisacat - 30 April 2007

hmm I posted all of that here at the time. Not sure that I can find it tho. It was whenever she was being party apparatchik for Edwards (that lasted so long… LOL then he “forgave” them, hahahah)

It might be easier to find it at her site… Reid’s ‘Prevention First’ is what it is called, iirc.

Here is Biden on MTP. A real effing mess. Page 4. Link is to page 4.

he goes on for a while, first thru the recent SC (a REAL mess from him) then he goes on to federal funds…

85. bayprairie - 30 April 2007

may I cut and paste part of your comment, the part detailing the budget aspect of Hyde Amendment and the yearly renewal, and post it to the thread at Amptoons.

of course!

86. bayprairie - 30 April 2007

lots of stuff on hyde and related matters at this link. NNAF. there’s even a hyde amendement learning tool that takes the form of a bingo game. some BBB “A” listers might wish to practice their gaming skills before speaking.

some of the “bingo” questions are

Knows how often the Hyde Amendment is renewed

Yearly, with the budget.

Knows the year of the last “known” debate of the Hyde Amendment in Congress

In 1994, at which point the rape and incest exceptions were added.

Knows the connection between TANF and the Hyde Amendment

A woman on public assistance can be caught between getting no funding for abortion (because of the Hyde Amendment) and receiving no additional public assistance if she has another child (because of welfare reform family cap laws)

Knows what similarity is shared by the South Dakota abortion ban and the original (since revised) Hyde Amendment as passed in 1976

The only exception is for the life of the woman. In both cases legislators did so deliberately, debated exceptions for rape and health and rejected them.

Can name the three exemptions under the Hyde Amendment

Life of the woman, rape and incest.

Knows which political party supports restrictions on federal funding for abortion.

Members of both the Democrat and Republican Party have supported restrictions on federal funding, including Jimmy Carter and Al Gore

Can name the first national effort to bring attention to the inequality of the Hyde Amendment

The Campaign for Abortion & Reproductive Equity (C.A.R.E.), spearheaded by the National Black Women’s Health Project in 1993.

87. marisacat - 30 April 2007

thanks bay…


ms xeno..

my computer froze and I had to shut down and reboot. Trying to find the Marcotte foolishness on Prevention First. For some reason it is being elusive… I know i linked to it and in fact cut and pasted a section from her site, as it was going down a lot in the aftermath of Donohue/edwards/etc

88. marisacat - 30 April 2007

ms xeno

here you go, via mcat.

89. moiv - 30 April 2007

bay —

Another question for the list:

In states that ban state funding for abortion, how often does Medicaid pay for abortions performed even when Hyde Amendment exceptions for rape, incest or the life of the woman apply?


We had a patient with highly aggressive breast cancer whose oncologist sent a letter saying that her eight-week pregnancy was a direct and imediate threat to her life, and who included 21 pages of medical records to sustantiate that certification.

Forget about it. Several NNAF funds contributed toward the cost of her abortion, and we wrote off the rest.

No enforcement and no accountability. There were about 77,000 abortion procedures performed in Texas in 2003. And according to my Austin source, Medicaid covered eight of them.

90. moiv - 30 April 2007

Mcat —

You’re having trouble with the search because it was even worse than you remember. Marcotte was supporting not Prevention First, but the DFL’s 95-10 — which she seemed to think included access to birth control..

91. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 April 2007

Someone above mentioned that there is some hope in what is happening in South America. Sorry, I can’t remember if it was this thread or the previous one. But I agree with that.

Today, Chavez announced that Venezuela is with-drawing from the World Bank (they have paid off all their debts, a while ago airc).

Venezuela to quit IMF and World Bank

CARACAS (Reuters) – Venezuela will withdraw from the Washington-based lending organizations, the IMF and World Bank, in a symbolic move that distances leftist President Hugo Chavez from much of the international economic community.

Chavez, who plans to create an alternative lending bank run by South American nations and funded in part with his OPEC nation’s high oil revenue, said on Monday Venezuela no longer needed the institutions dominated by U.S. “imperialism.”

“I want to formalize our exit from the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund,” he said.

Chavez blames the organizations’ decades-old economic recipes of tight budget control, privatizations and open markets for continued poverty across Latin America.

And Paul Wolfowitz is still clinging to his position at the World Bank. According to reports, he is trying get a $400,000 bonus before he leaves.

I like the addition of ‘leftist’ in the article.

92. D. Throat - 30 April 2007

Obama is being shaped into the Democrats dream version of Colin Powell “.

God Fearing (check)
Ultra Nationalistic (check)
Personable (check)
Blindly taking orders (check)

Why Obama is more dangerous than Hilliary is that basically he is more able to continue and reinforce ALL of Bushes ideologies… than Hilliary. Of course, Hilliary would like nothing more than to be the next Thatcher Democrat… but unfortunately for her… she is really hated on both sides.

This reminds me of the “Godfather”… it ain’t personal Sonny… it just business.

I think that the powers that be are not looking at the person but the vehicle that can bring their policies and ideologies to fruition… and frankly, Hilliary has too much baggage.

Carter was the last “independently thinking” president, since then they have all been packaged, marketed and controlled 100% by their “sponsors”. That is how Reagan suffering from Altsheimers … could “lead” for two terms… Clinton was just the DLC talking head he pulled it off with the puppet strings barely showing….and this one never even pretended that he was going to be the visionary.

So, Obama is well tuned… “blessed” with good looks, and is far more personable and BELIEVABLE than Hilliary or Edwards. At least he knows how to best lead his people around him to promoe himself in the best possible way…something Kerry never learned how to do.

Obama will not change a thing on the fundie front… and before even announcing to run… he stated clearly that Dems should continue these “Faith Based Bribes” from the government.

I think that the most frighten aspect of an Obama win… is that he has the ability to “happily” lead the young people into a Draft.

There is no doubt about it… the only way for him to continue the PNAC plan (which he endorses FULLY)… is to have a draft. The GOP will never do this…. that is what the Democrats are for… and which is why the Democrats are being “allowed” to win the next Presidential election. As it will be paid for with the wombs of our women and the bodies of our children being sent off to war … for ever.

Jerome a Paris has a very good diary on this… the thread thugs caught on too late before it was recommended.

93. marisacat - 30 April 2007

OK think I got the comment in, it is waiting for moderation at Alas a Blog.

94. marisacat - 30 April 2007


that was the problem… once I dropped “Reid” and “Prevention First” then I found her posts thru mcat.

I just posted the link to the comment at Alas.

I used both Bay and your comment.

Took me forever…. but at least i got it done. And I linked back to her sales job posts on 95/10

95. marisacat - 30 April 2007


IOZ links to a post today from one of the retired CIA/mil guys.. his name slipped away. he links Obama’s speech last week in Chicago directly to neocon thought for foreign policy.

Such bad news.

I got overwhelmed iwth several things or woul dhave posted on the IOZ post.

Ooops the CIA mil guy is Pat Lang.

96. marisacat - 30 April 2007

SB, that was such good news today for Venzuela. Free, Free at last…


97. D. Throat - 30 April 2007

BTW…I think Gravel is suspect… to be such a populist but coincidentally have the same economic position as the DLC… I don’t think so…

Flat tax rates comes straight out of Rham’s new book “The Plan”

Kucinich… is there just to show what the “looney left” looks like… I wrote him off when he made his Iowa delegates vote for Edwards… another fraud.

98. D. Throat - 30 April 2007

It is now longer the Presidential election but the Puppetential election….may the best talking head puppet win…

99. lucidculture - 30 April 2007

SB – I have been a Chavez fan for some time [as is interestingly enough the person who brought me to Dkos in the first place, Al Giordano, editor of Narco News.

He has been running an online journal about Latin American affairs, specifically focusing on drug trade issues since around 2000 or so. It has grown to the place that he actually has a lot of real journalists reporting – and he made his fame by winning the first case on record giving internet journalism the same protections as print journalism [against Citibank no less]. I started following him right around the first election of Chavez & the passing of the Bolivarian Constitution.

Like Mcat says above, I have a lot of hope for South America as well. But while I politically and economically support just about everything Chavez has done, my question is if he will leave office when the constitution he brought to be dictates. If he does, he is a hero, if not, well, he is not.

I wait with baited breath.

But this move kicks ass. That’s for damn sure.

100. marisacat - 30 April 2007

yeah but Gravel gets the spotlight for his anti war.. they ignore his flat tax stuff. Which strikes me as very ‘Alaska”…. extreme libertarianism. Def not my thing.. plus he has no chance and they are trying to dump him.

And as long as he pops off with lines that make the others look like fools, works for me…

101. lucidculture - 1 May 2007

The Gravel flat tax… I have to say, from what I’ve seen he actually looks like a traditional conservative. He’s for government accountability, he goes back to a pre-FDR stance on US military involvement in he world, he’s pro democracy – but in a way that is also very pre-FDR, very states rights…

In short, he is typical frontier politics, classic Goldwater [sans the cold war baggage – like his later years].

Why can’t the Dems put forward anyone who is actually a leftist; anyone who believes in progressive taxation; anyone who believes in government regulation of industry; anyone who beleives that the purpose of government is to protect the weak against the strong; anyone who believes in peace for the right reasons; anyone who believes in fostering economic justice at home and economic equilibrium abroad?

Why? It’s a simple question. Why?

102. D. Throat - 1 May 2007

Next debate they will sic Kucinich on Gravel… just like with Dean. Not once did Kucinich ever attack Lieberman…. the biggest backer of the war…not once.

103. marisacat - 1 May 2007

well lucid… LOL we all know there is a silent ban on left thought.

I mean, it is just so obvious.

Instead we get happy little Dept of Peace people. And their new age wives who spout soft slop with Kuc adding in chapter and verse. Such a fucking SCAM.

And I DO appreciate this or that that Kucinich gets done (like the panel with the lancet authors on Iraqi deaths… and so on)… but we all know what the game is.

104. moiv - 1 May 2007

Mcat #94

Good show.

We have some great stand-up Dems in our Texas Lege, but too damned many, both here and in DC, have gotten away with too damned much bamboozling for too damned long.

105. D. Throat - 1 May 2007

Agreed… it is not that Gravel’s war stance is unimpressive…it is .. but I think the real reason he is in the mix is to open the Overton window on Democratic acceptance of regressive tax legislation… and what better means to slip the message in than to have it riding in on the coat tails of anti war rhetoric… instant credibility.

Since Clinton, the Democrats have become experts in pulling the wool over the eyes of its constituency… too bad the Dem leadership never thought to actually oppose the GOP. You see this mimic in the DK threads… the long knives come out for the true progressives and liberals…. while GOP creeps like Jiacinto and Luscious Vagina…roam freely.

106. marisacat - 1 May 2007

The Democrats run a really narrow propaganda line. And all sorts of people with good ideas get shafted. They get left with no political partner.

A few months ago on Cpsan I saw a great guy at a panel in WI, think the group [his group] was Wisconsin One iirc. A policy group… He was a local poli sci prof, but a really smart alive person. And everything he brought up he would then state the Dem party shut down.

madman sent me links to the WI One people at the time, lots of good ideas. NO political aprtner.

107. marisacat - 1 May 2007

thanks moiv.

NOTHING will ever shake my belief that the so called A [B and C] listers get paid for their smack downs.

People just are not in this shit for free.

Disgusting people. And their fingers should get bitten off.

108. Sabrina Ballerina - 1 May 2007

D. Throat, I did not read Jerome’s diary, but looking around the ‘net today, a consensus re Obama seems to be forming, that he is a neocon, so many others agree with your assessment, from what I read today.

What I think the goal is, Hillary for president, Obama for VP. Those who arrange these things will sell the team as being supremely progressive, a woman and a black man. As Gonzales was sold as a minority (the focus on his ethnicity during the nomination process was sickening) and Condi and Colin Powell, as proof of the Repubs being even better than Dems on promoting Blacks.

What has been revealed as a result of the appointments of those three, is that it doesn’t matter, woman, minority or anything else. It’s still about integrity. And there’s not much of that around.

Note: It was marisacat in post #64 who said there was hope in South America –

109. marisacat - 1 May 2007

Glen Ford at BAR has said all along the plan is for Hillary + Obama.

And he is in Chicago… close to a lot. Known Obama for years.

110. lucidculture - 1 May 2007

And like I appreciate Gravel for what he is – he’s not some paleo-con like Buchanan – I also appreciate Kucinich for what he is [I actually gave money to him in 2004]. They represent sensible parts of our national politics that have been almost irretrievably lost.

But neither of them would be anything more than a cut-rate, generic bandaid on a wound needing some serious gauze and tape, a wound that is by all reasonable estimates a mortal one. Neither populism nor veganism get us out of this one. It is septic. The kairos is past.

We must speciate anew.

111. D. Throat - 1 May 2007

all along the plan is for Hillary + Obama.

This has been my feeling since day one of the sudden Obama media frenzy from out of the blue… instigated by the corporate media.

Obama will be Hilliary’s “Colin”. If you have noticed this is suppose to be a primary and there are NO ATTACKS between the candidates. It was telling how Obama distanced himself from an errant independent supporter who made the Apple-like Big Brother attack ad on Hilliary…. any untethered candidate wold have enjoyed that and sparked more… but he firmly stomped that out.

The problem is now …how is Obama going to graciously… step aside?

112. missdevore - 1 May 2007

call me a nap head. asleep since abt. 730 p, with a plan to go into the second phase-1A-5:30A in abt. 15 minutes.

yeah, I will be disappointed if the strategy is a Hillary/Obama ticket. I can also think of other ways to be disappointed, but would rather not.

Can’t find any reports following up on Green Zone bombings from earlier today.

Can’t get no satisfaction.

And now, lucid says “we must speciate anew”

As if the fucking “to-do” list didn’t threaten to crush me already.

113. Sabrina Ballerina - 1 May 2007

Lucid, I am very familiar with Al Giordano. I probably discovered him around the same time you did, or a little later. He is a real journalist, imo. Imagine if our media allowed real journalists like him to report the news. What a different country it would be.

I also had an online Venezuelan friend at the time of the election and he blogged to us as he stood in line with his girlfriend, waiting to vote for Chavez. He said he had originally been against Chavez, but after seeing what he accomplished for the Venezuelan people, he became a real supporter. It was a very exciting time. I asked if I could go visit, in fact for a while, I thought about going there, and he said ‘you are most welcome to my country’.

Really, one of my best online memories as we were getting unfiltered news directly from Venezuela, and he posted links to their newspapers also. Comparing that to the US coverage, I felt like I was reading about two totally different events.

Oh, and one more thing. Vino told us that there was an older woman ahead of him in line. He said ‘guess what she is doing?’ He told us ‘she is reading a book and she is crying’. She said she had never learned to read, but that Chavez had provided money to teach all Venezuelans and she was so proud that she had learned. He also said that Chavez had promised that if he won, he would give away free books. And apparently, he did.

But yes, I hope he does not remain in office when his time is up. He has accomplished a lot, and educated the people, given them back their country. He could play a role, but I too, would be disappointed if he remained in office against the constitution. Fingers crossed. I think he’s smart enough to realize the consequences of such a decision. I hope so.


D.Throat, You see this mimic in the DK threads… the long knives come out for the true progressives and liberals…. while GOP creeps like Jiacinto and Luscious Vagina…roam freely.

Oh, absolutely, it was one of the first things I noticed, being that I was still battling rightwingers on that other forum at the time. So I could easily recognize them when I saw them.

Funny you should mention Jiacinto, someone posted a link to a diary related to Mitm yesterday, I followed it and from that followed another link to a MB diary about Memorial Day. This was back in 2005. Jiacinto derailed that thread and several people asked that he be banned. He called MB anti-American – lol, a dead give-away especially then, being that this is a rightwing tactic.

He was troll-rated, I believe. Funny, Armando was in that thread and attacked him also, and said something about rec’ing him for banning if he did that again. Ironic since that was when he recommended that Mitm be banned, which happened almost immediately, but Jiacinto is still there! Very revealing.

Apparently asking kos if he was receiving calls from the DP was deserving of banning (kos could have denied it if true and ended the debate. I didn’t see that. Armando did, but not kos airc) while a rightwing abuser, even of MB, remained. On any other progressive blog I have been on, there is no doubt who would have been banned if there was a choice. The signs were there early. Too bad so many missed them and went on to help build that site.

114. marisacat - 1 May 2007

I saw mention at IraqSlogger of GZ under shelling.

Will check there… think I read it in their midnight email…

115. Sabrina Ballerina - 1 May 2007

Miss Devore, I read that report early today, about ‘smoke rising from the Green Zone’ – but you’re right, I heard nothing more about it. I did also read that the government in Iraq is falling apart. The Sunnis are threatening to quit, and the rest of the government is planning to take a two month vacation (easy to see they have a lot in common with their puppeteers).

Lol, we must speciate! Okay! And we have a musical to get finished. We have a Big Tent Boutique to stock and a Yrly Vag to plan. We have a party to attend which will require a fund-raiser. There is also the copyright issue, still under investigation.

There is no no rest for the wicked!

116. Sabrina Ballerina - 1 May 2007
117. Madman in the Marketplace - 1 May 2007

Chavez has done a lot … now he needs to be George Washington and step aside, get a tradition of transition of civilian leadership started. Not sure his ego will let him, though.

have a good day everyone.

118. ms_xeno - 1 May 2007

Thanks again, Mcat and the rest.

I note that Maia at Alas clarifies that she is not telling U.S. women how to vote. I like Maia. She’s a fine writer and as an Anarchist, has no love for any political party so far as I know. Not sure why she felt she had to put that in there, but….

I’ll be curious to see whether Amanda will come back to Alas to justify her astroturfing for the DFL. Should be fun. Too bad I’ll be at work most of the day, missing any ensuing fireworks.

119. colleen - 1 May 2007

Speaking of Democratic acceptance of regressive tax legislation I heard Ron Wyden aggressively supporting a flat tax on Ed Schultz’s repulsive show a couple of weeks ago. I suspect the fix is in and that a flat tax will be inevitable next term.
After all, someone has to pay for their wars, why not the poor….

120. marisacat - 1 May 2007

sounds like D Throat ws on target with that one. Bull’s eye.

Be interesting to see if they boot Gravel or if he starts to talk up flat tax.

What a mess we are in…

121. JJB - 1 May 2007

earth to meg,

Obama is turning out to be much worse than anybody could have imagined. Talk about a religionist, reminding us of our “moral obligations” blah blah blah.

Before long, you’re going to hear the Dems start blabbing about the “moral obligation” young Americans have to perform public service, and see them draw up legislation requiring it. The reward at the end of mandated time spent in this service will be some kind of assistance with a college education (I’m sure it will be far short of a free ride), and joining the military will be an option, needless to say. I also believe that the alternatives offered to the military will be so unnattractive as to make the wartime Armed Forces appear as enticing as Florida during spring break.

What’s really scary to me about this rhetoric is not what it says about the way Obama thinks, but the way he’s preparing the ground for practical policies meant to ensure a constant flow of fresh meat into the war machine.

122. marisacat - 1 May 2007

Everybody running in this cash game of Who’s YOur Pretzeldent is a sell out.

I am sure they wish they had instituted some form of the draft in the early days after 9/11. But no matter, not to worry, the Democrats swiftly crafted bills to reinstate the draft.

Only a mtter of time.

123. supervixen - 1 May 2007

Yesterday I went down to southern NH to see Kate Michelman and Elizabeth Edwards. They both spoke very well. I like Mrs. Edwards a lot. I wish we could get straightforward, sharp, articulate women like her running for President instead of Hillary. Regarding the Iraq funding bill, she said, “The Democrats have to stop caving in. We are negotiating with ourselves.” No shit!! Regarding Edwards’ focus on eradicating poverty, she said the issue “goes to the core of why we are Democrats” and noted that none of the other Dem contenders have said much about this issue.

Speaking of why we are Democrats – or perhaps former Democrats – this commentary by Miz L is interesting:

I’m against war. (3+ / 0-)

I won’t go so far as to say I’m against ever entering a war, but I can’t think of a situation in which I think starting one is acceptable and there hasn’t been one yet in my life I was in favor of.

But I, too, mock the “visualize peace” crowd and I think the department of peace idea is silly as Kucinich describes it – turning the US into one giant group therapy session.

One can hold many of the same positions as Kucinich and still not like his candidacy for president. Plenty of reasons for not liking that.

by MissLaura on Mon Apr 30, 2007 at 10:50:52 PM PDT

Then, later in the thread:

Not those with whom I disagree. (1+ / 0-)

There are many people – here and elsewhere – with whom I disagree deeply but for whom I have great respect. I trivialize people whose ideas seem to me trivial. A lesson I learned very early in life was that there are smart people I disagree with politically and very, very stupid people I agree with politically. I wish it wasn’t so – I wish all the smart people had ideals that I consider right and just – but it is what it is. So, being able to see both those axes, and more besides, I judge accordingly. And I’m not going to value stupid or self-serving or disingenuous people just because they share basic political ideas with me. Sorry.

Although actually, I doubt there are all that many people here whose circle of friends includes greater political range than mine, [ahem – did someone say “self-serving”??? – SV]which includes conservative Republicans who voted to keep anti-miscegenation laws on the books in Alabama on the right and socialists who believe that the Democratic party is too corporatist, racist, and sexist to participate in, as well as a large middle ground.

by MissLaura on Mon Apr 30, 2007 at 11:57:22 PM PDT

It’s difficult to interpret that incoherent blither-blather – Miz L is normally a clunky writer but in this Twister-like attempt to try to cover her own ass, justify her nastiness toward a Dem candidate, and at the same time trying to pump up her own ego, she outdoes even herself. But even a charitable read of those comments leads to the conclusion that she thinks it’s appropriate to mock and bash Kucinich for being a dweeby, stupid peacenik, but she wouldn’t do the same to her racist Republican friend who voted for anti-miscegenation laws. The implication is that the anti-miscegenation position is neither “silly” nor “trivial” and is more worthy of respect.

Further, she’s pulling the Fox News stunt of false equivalency: pretending that a “socialist” who doesn’t buy into the Dem Party is as “out there” as a virulently racist right-wing Republican.

I’ve long noted the stench of social conservatism that permeates Miz L’s posts – and those of so many other Kos apologists, e.g., Barb in MD. But I think she really tipped her hand here. I suspect that Miz L is one of the young heirs of the Dixiecrat mentality.

124. marisacat - 1 May 2007

what a hoot… GMA saying that Corzine’s car sped leaving the hospital as well. Going 70, 15 over the speed limit.

125. ms_xeno - 1 May 2007

Colleen, you have to vote Democrat and accept the Flat Tax. Otherwise all those dead babies in the developing world are your fault.

That’s about the level we’re operating at in terms of discourse nowadays. Hell, I should get a new pseudonym and write that one up for Blue Oregon. I’m sure they’d lick Wyden’s shoes live on KATU at 6 PM if he promised them it would save a few foreign babies.

Screwed, Blooed, and Tattooed. :p

126. ms_xeno - 1 May 2007

Oh, and now Amanda’s in the new Alas thread of Maia’s playing all dumb again. Using MLK’s legacy to prove that your only choices in this world are voting for assholes or staying home. That the only vehicle for change is ponying up to Democrats. Lips that touch the words ‘3rd Party’ shall never touch mine, saith Marcotte the Wise.

Shit. She really does think we’re all as cowed and corrupted as she is.

127. JJB - 1 May 2007

SB, no. 25,

It’s interesting that some of the women from the agency were Scientists, College Professors eg, you have to wonder why they would have felt the need to entertain these men for money. I’m sure they could have met them socially, at least some of them.

Maybe this was a trap? A way to blackmail people. Not that the Madame would have known, but there could have been plants who answered her ads. Just wondering.

This sort of thing can provide a very nice income supplement in a town as expensive as DC. But the blackmail aspect is probably the one to follow. Back in the early 1960s, Stephen Ward in London and Bobby Baker in DC were pimps whose stable included young women of modest means as well as aristocrats and stylish women from the Continent and Asia. Several of the women plied their trade in both capitals for both Ward and Baker, and it’s a certainty that the FBI, the CIA, MIs 5 & 6 were both privy to what went on, who was doing whom, etc. Interestingly enough, two then-young women known to have (at the very least) tangential connections to Baker’s stable at his Quorum Club were the future Mrs. John Dean, and Mary Jo Kopechne. The latter lived for a time with Nancy Carole Tyler, Baker’s secretary and intimate (in both the professional and personal senses of the term), in a house Baker owned. Mo Dean also was acquainted with Tyler, and her phone number appeared in Tyler’s address book. It’s been speculated that one reason the Watergate burglary took place is to find out how much Larry O’Brien knew about Mo Dean’s past.

BTW, if all this was some kind of entrapment/blackmail scheme, the Madame would most assuredly have known, and have contacts with someone at the FBI, CIA, or White House (BushCo. could be running its own blackmail operation here). That doesn’t mean she could count on them to stand up for her, far from it. It does mean that there’s probably a lot of Byzantine maneuvering going on in DC right now, and ugly things may end up happening. Nancy Tyler was killed in a plane crash in 1965. Nor should the fate of Mrs. E. Howard Hunt be ignored. She was killed in an airline crash in December 1972, while her husband was under considerable pressure to talk about details of the Watergate burglary, and she was pressuring Charles Colson for money. She was carrying over $10,000 in her purse, and had taken out a $250,000 flight insurance policy just prior to getting on the plane. Seated next to her was a reporter from CBS News, Michelle Clark. She died too.

128. marisacat - 1 May 2007

I think the Dems settled long ago on using the Global Gag Rule to slap epople, liberals and others, into line. Classic, what I call “Liberal Sugar”… they mainline it.

When ”stuff” became clear along about Feb of 2004 I was in a chat room a Dkos commenter used to set up… I mentioned that I would nto be voting for Kerry and DavidNYC (of Swing State Project, one of the 4 who pick the candidates for Dkos and the blahgs to support), quick as a wink said, Oh Marisa you must think of the Global Gag Rule.

LOL I promised I would think of it…. hahahaha.

the stuff that marcotte shoved out was very canned. They just cut and paste from party emails.

129. supervixen - 1 May 2007

The reasoning from Marcotte (and others of her stripe) is circular: “Don’t leave the Dems and vote for a Third Party candidate because voters don’t like Third Party candidates”.

It’s simple: if they’re so distressed about defections from the Party, they should change the Party.

130. It goes without saying... « Marisacat - 1 May 2007

[…] I think this thread needs a dose of reality. A commenter linked to this posting of maia’s at my site, Marisacat. […]

131. marisacat - 1 May 2007

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