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“The next thing I heard was the shotguns” 3 May 2007

Posted by marisacat in Border Issues, California / Pacific Coast.

Police used batons and fired rubber bullets to control a crowd gathered at the end of an immigrant rights march in MacArthur Park.  (Rick Loomis / LAT)

I wanted to repost the link to Xicano Power’s May Day violence post at Para Justicia Y Libertad, he has three videos up and links to more at Chicano Forums.


“I was dumbfounded,” said the KPCC reporter, Patricia Nazario. “I’ve covered riots. I’ve covered chaos. I was never hit or struck or humiliated the way the LAPD violated me yesterday.”

Nazario said she was walking away from riot police when she was hit in the back.

Wearing a press pass and holding a microphone, she turned around and told the officer, “Why did you hit me? I’m moving. I’m a reporter,” Nazario recalled.

Then the officer hit her on the left leg, she said, knocking her to the ground and sending her cellphone flying.

“I was shocked, trying to scramble to my feet,” she said. “At that point, I just started crying…. I just felt totally vulnerable.”

Pedro Sevcec was anchoring the evening news for Telemundo when he saw the riot police moving slowly toward the news crews.

A few dozen people had gathered to watch Sevcec do his live broadcast.

“The next thing I heard was the shotguns,” he said.

Police knocked over monitors and lights and hit reporters and camera operators with batons, he said.

Sevcec said police hit him three times and pointed a riot gun at his face before pushing him out of the park.

 A police officer takes aim at crowds gathered in MacArthur Park Tuesday afternoon. (Rick Loomis LAT)

And, well, fine, but that [police going after reporters and crew] is not all that happened.  I think Bratton is attempting a little diversion:

Police Chief William J. Bratton, who promised an investigation, said at a news conference Wednesday that a key part of the inquiry into the officers’ actions would focus on why they used force against members of the media.

“We should never be engaged in attacking anyone in the media,” Bratton said.

… yes, let’s give another of Rudy’s finest (Bratton and Guiliani did not get along, but perhaps too much was made of that) the benefit of the doubt.  We can always endure another blue ribbon commission.

LAT has several pieces up on the events in MacArthur Park… link to officials, activists commentary and eyewitness recollections:

Maritza Alvarez, 36, a filmmaker who was at the northwest corner of MacArthur Park:

“I had a long lens and was able to see a rush of people running into the park. I can tell you [the police] were just shooting indiscriminately. I saw them beat up an elderly man, they knocked his knees down, children were crying. … I’m telling you, it was military-style, there was a commander there saying, ‘One, two, shoot,’ and we were trying to duck behind trees, running. We had to hide behind the stage at one point, we couldn’t even turn our backs. They’re lying when they said they warned us. There was no warning at all.”

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who is traveling in El Salvador:

“Yesterday, across the country, we witnessed a day of overwhelmingly peaceful speeches and assemblies in the best American tradition. … Any time that our law enforcement officials employ force, the public has an absolute and unqualified right to expect and demand an aggressive review of the facts. This review is already underway.”

LAPD Chief William J. Bratton:

“Police use of force in any context is always visibly and emotionally upsetting, even when necessary and lawful. Our challenge in reviewing and investigating the actions of the department and its officers and that of the public is to determine if that use of force was an appropriate response to the level of threat, disturbance and danger that they are encountering.”

Blue ribboned commissions headed our way… as I poke around and find other posts on the May Day will throw them up on the page…

Demonstrators stand their ground during a confrontation with police at the end of an immigrant rights march in MacArthur Park. (Rick Loomis / LAT)


I also wanted to pull a comment of Madman’s forward, with a link to a report on the AL militia men who were arrested recently…

Madman in the Marketplace:

before I head to work:

Ala. 5 accused of planning to machine-gun latinos

Five members of a self-styled militia were denied bail Tuesday after a federal agent testified they planned a machine gun attack on Mexicans, but a judge approved bail for a sixth man.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Robert Armstrong said he could not grant bail to the five because of the agent’s testimony and the amount of weapons — including about 200 homemade hand grenades — that were seized in raids Friday in northeast Alabama.

“I’m going to be worried if I let these individuals go at this time,” he said.

Adam Nesmith, an agent with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified that the five — Raymond Kirk Dillard, 46; Adam Lynn Cunningham, 41; Bonnell Hughes, 57; Randall Garrett Cole, 22; and James Ray McElroy, 20 — planned a machine-gun attack on Mexicans in Remlap, a town just north of Birmingham, and went there on a reconnaissance mission April 20. The agent provided no further details.

During the raids last week, agents recovered 130 homemade hand grenades, a grenade launcher, about 70 hand grenades rigged to be fired from a rifle, a machine gun, a short-barrel shotgun and 2,500 rounds of ammunition, authorities said. [snip]

The judge approved $10,000 bail for the sixth defendant, 30-year-old Michael Wayne Bobo, at a later hearing. Bobo, who is being kept in custody until at least Wednesday, was charged with being a drug user in possession of a firearm. The other five were charged with conspiring to make a firearm.

ATF agent Larry Alt testified that investigators who searched Bobo’s home found two rooms loaded with guns and possible explosives components, including fireworks, ball bearings, primers, mouse traps, light bulbs and fertilizer. The man lived in two upstairs rooms in his parents’ home in Trusville, Alt testified.

If they weren’t righties they’d be in a navy brig right now in solitary cells, naked and freezing. This was a terrorist cell, plain and simple, and should be treated as more serious than a bunch of rednecks with a hobby of making homemade weapons.


*** end of text of Madman comment ***


last, something a little lighthearted, aemd had posted a link to the scheme for smileys in WordPress… you know times are desperado when we are down to smileys:


Emoticons in wordpress. Don’t know if they all will work as shown but it gives me a good excuse to play around.


8-O -D -P -| -?


UPDATE,   1:14 pm

Basically everyone is out of the park, and they are still firing.—Narrator of video taken at May Day 2007 police action

Unapologetic Mexican weighs in:

[T]hey have done what they wanted, made their mark, instilled fear. And despite what they say, they didn’t do this because some people stepped off the sidewalk, bullshit. We know why the cops were there and in such gear, and with such attitudes and agendas. The government fears the numbers they saw last year on 2006. In 2006 we actually showed, lived out, demonstrated the Power of the People, and it scared the living shit out of our keepers. Because America is only about the Power of the People in word. That’s advertising to keep us defending our jailers, paying our taxes, and joining the grinder military. America is really about the Power of the Few. And the Power of the Gun. And the Power of the Dollar. And the Power of the Lie.  [snip]

He has photos from the day as he was at the Southern corner of the park… and videos up as well…

Wonderful, strong writing:

A naked display of violence acted out upon the powerless by the power-holders in violation with the bedrock of our codified “rights,” and today the blogs and news sites discuss Republican debates, TV-shapes, and one of the many wars we started overseas. Wars started in the name of preserving our Freedoms and Laws. Which were, yesterday, mocked and made irrelevant. They will excuse endangering lives and causing blind panic to break out and military type formations of tear gassing, rubber bullet firing battallions because people “stepped off the sidewalk.” We know what this means. It’s like when someone walks into a bar or a gathering of other people and insults and pushes around people until he gets them to glare or raise a hand or stand up. Then the bully gleefully engages in the fight they wanted so badly the whole time. The one they lacked the courage to outright state was their goal. It’s what I call the “Rio Grande” method of beat-down, for my own reasons.




1. wilfred - 3 May 2007

Considering how violent America has been on so many fronts in the winter and spring of ’07, i’m almost afraid to think about how bad this summer is going to be.

2. marisacat - 3 May 2007

Scammed this link from TChris at TalkLeft, from LA City Beat:

The videotape is disturbing to watch: Protesters and media are seen shoved and beaten by police. While many officers are indeed shown calmly moving the crowd back, others caught on-camera were clearly agitated, taking cover behind palm trees, firing rubber bullets, and swinging batons at will.

Incredibly, among the targets were diminutive Fox 11 reporter Christina Gonzalez and her female camera operator, who were shoved, threatened, knocked down, and even laughed at by police.

I saw film tape of the incident with the local FOX News reporter.. Looked bad. No question.

3. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

“We should never be engaged in attacking anyone in the media,” Bratton said.

Huh? ‘We’ (the police) should never be involved in attacking anyone, period!

But maybe he spent too long as Rudi’s Police Chief. I hadn’t realized he was the same guy. Although, as you said, he did not get along with Giuliani (who did other than Kerik) and quit, airc. I think he’s originally from Boston, but could be mistaken.

It’s infuriating to look at those cops in their military-style riot gear. And frightening. And how dumb were they to beat up members of the press? While it’s upsetting that Bratton focuses on the press, it’s fortunate for the other victims, that the press themselves did become targets, or we’d be told that the cops were just defending themselves.

Maybe the press will one day wake up. For all their capitulation over the past several years, how many of their colleagues were murdered in Iraq? Several reports claimed reporters were deliberately targeted by the US military. Certainly Italy is claiming that and Spain, and also the US press itself has made such claims.

Then there is the report by a British insider (currently on trial I think) that Bush and Blair discussed bombing the offices of Al Jazeera. And one of their offices was bombed, as well as the BBC I think.

This administration despises the press. Wish I could find it, but I remember a photo of Jenna Bush sticking her tongue out at the press a few years ago. In a way, they deserve the treatment they are getting.

The press here reminds of DK sychophants. No matter how they suck up to the administration, they still despise them, just as kos despises the sucker-uppers at his site. Most likely while they may hate those who do stand up to them, they have more respect for them.

Those photos are such an indictment of this so-called free, democratic country. It’s becoming more and more difficult to distinguish it from some third world dictatorship.

I wish from now on, dissenters would stay home and not give the police these opportunities. GO ON STRIKE. Crash the market. Boycott their propaganda machine and their advertisers. Take their money! It’s the only way to hurt them.

Sickening, all of it – we’ve stopped nothing, accomplished nothing – it just gets worse. Those boyz are delusional if they think otherwise.

4. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

But irony is not dead! Bush at a prayer meeting somewhere just said:

‘And America Welcomes people of all nationalities’! Sure, with the riot police!

5. liberalcatnip - 3 May 2007

MacArthur Park – someone left the cake out in the rain and then the cops shot it with a rubber bullet.

This struck me:

“We should never be engaged in attacking anyone in the media,” Bratton said.

Well no because they actually then report about it. Can’t have that!

6. marisacat - 3 May 2007

Well it would be amusing if it were not tragic.. making a quick round of Blahgsnottery, greater and lesser, they seem flummoxed as to what to say about Dem Cave In w/r/t Iraq.

Horrors, the Dems may field a bill with no timelines. yank those pink poodle chains.

Why be surprised after all these years? Many Many years, from before sanctioning then invading Iraq was a gleam in the Eternal Government’s eye.

Thank God Glenn Greenwald (very fast salon ad to enter, one screen) took on the fearsome, fearful and feared (they quake at night that a blogger might take them on) job of slamming MSM, so Blahg Boyz can feel all better now. Kiss the booboo. Kiss the boob.

Well why should Blahggery be different than much of America (and that includes MSM, to be sure), iow: A great white lump.

The high points from Glenn — and what group does this sound like if you replace a word or two with “Dem Party” or “Reid” or often by silencio (they prefer often not to discuss him), “Rahm”:

(1) Mainstream journalists pompously spout claims that are factually, objectively, demonstrably false — and then, in their pomposity, refuse to acknowledge or correct their error…

(2) Journalists mindlessly pass on government statements without bothering to investigate if they are true. And they grant anonymity to government sources to do nothing but spew false government propaganda with impunity…

(3) National journalists wallow endlessly in vacuous, vapid, empty-headed, petty gossip, obsessed with meaningless chatter and snide, personality-based assaults more appropriate for a junior high clique than anything else.

And they do so while ignoring the most substantive and consequential political matters.

yes Kiss the Blahggers’ Booboos.

PS BTW, the GG really is a laugh, it functions as an advertisement for politico.com in the Salon pages. I thought politico might be a bit (just a little, not a lot!) sharp and edgey when it when it opened. It sagged so fast it was just plain sad.

7. DreamOfPeace - 3 May 2007

While the victimizing members of the media along with the rest of the crowd is a surprise, I hate the way their “pain” is somehow more valid than the pain of the crying children or the old man that was beaten or anyone of the protesters!

8. marisacat - 3 May 2007

I just heard Bratton on the 10 am local news… he seems stressed that “240 rounds” were shot off, with “no arrests”.

They just cannot reconcile the paperwork, that is my take.

9. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

Well, I have a question for Glenn re his, correct, statement that reporters mindlessly pass on government statements.

I’m wondering what he thinks about this from a Recommeded Diary at Dkos, one of the first of many I’m sure, although a little more subtle than, say, Luscious Vagina’s, STFU diaries:


Daily Kos is a site dedicated to the election of Democratic Party candidates and is now focussed on ensuring that a Democratic President sits in the Oval Office as a result of the 2008 elections. Anything that distracts from that purpose, that undermines the enthusiasm of those who will make this happen, that discourages those that will be needed to get out the vote, I would suggest have no place on here. Those who use Dkos as a medium to develop a reputation and express these views should properly place value on the purpose of this site and not abuse it by the creation of controversy for its own sake or for the greater enhancement of the name of the diarist.

In the months that are to follow, we should build up, and not drag down, all Democratic candidates. We should be up front about the candidate that we support when discussing others and we should have integrity in our reason for posting diaries. Put simply, we should respect Dkos and its purpose. Especially those who have gained reputations and past accolades for their work.

The diary is a not-so-subtle attack on Jerome a Paris, who posted a diary on the backing of Obama by Neocons. Must stop reporting such truths before the masses start believing them.

Jermome responds:

As to my writing here, I’m fighting for some ideas, and if a big political site full of experienced political junkies meant to make the Democrats win cannot handle debate on actually what ideas need to be fought for, that would be big news to me. In the meantime, I’ll continue.

He must have been sleeping if he really thinks that site cannot handle criticism of even the worst Dems (excluding the liberal ones of course, like McKinney or Kucinich, they are fair game).

So, what does Glenn Greenwald think of dk only passing on positive talking points about presidential candidates to their readers, and telling anyone who reports anything, no matter how truthful, negative about them? Because this is going to happen a lot.

As to Jerome, he’s another one I don’t understand. Kos has outright insulted him, yet he continues to supply free content to the site and to suck up to kos.

And he can deny it all he wants, but I still believe that is why Armando was banned from the site. His criticisms of Obama and the Democrats’ failures re the war in Iraq. Incivility! Lol! As long as DHinMi et al, that excuse is simply laughable.

10. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

Well no because they actually then report about it. Can’t have that! Catnip

Exactly – lol! A freudian slip on Bratton’s part, imo.

While the victimizing members of the media along with the rest of the crowd is a surprise, I hate the way their “pain” is somehow more valid than the pain of the crying children or the old man that was beaten or anyone of the protesters! dreamofpeace

Yes, it is despicable, same as never mentioning the horrors we have subjected the Iraqi people to.

But those victims would have been blamed for attacking the police, if they had not been so stupid as to attack the press.

11. marisacat - 3 May 2007

The problem is that last time Jerome was under some much smaller attack he groveled. Said he hoped to be worthy to write for Dkos.

Showed his neck.

I have enjoyed a lot of what Jerome writes, esp what he writes on his own Just JaP diaries… but …

I have never understood why he venerates Dkos… and why he and Martin fought so hard over at BMT that no one co mingle issues of Soj (a contributer at ET and at BMT and who is a controversial entity) publicly while h e was under supposed consideration.

They browbeat people. Asked for oaths that they understood that jerome was not compromised by issues of Soj. In particular SallyCat (who cleves compeletly to the Dkos model these days or did as a of a couple months ago – ugh I read more of Kos in Feb due to DD then I had in 8 – 10 months) and “RecordKeeper” who refused the oath and left BMT the next month.

It was ugly. I am pretty sure i can find those threads.

12. liberalcatnip - 3 May 2007

#9. That sent a chill up my spine. It’s May ’07 and they’re already pushing SYFPH? Geez.

Those who use Dkos as a medium to develop a reputation and express these views should properly place value on the purpose of this site and not abuse it by the creation of controversy for its own sake or for the greater enhancement of the name of the diarist.

Does that include kos? Just sayin’…

13. marisacat - 3 May 2007

that would be big news to me. _Jerome a Paris

Should not be a surprise.

14. marisacat - 3 May 2007

In case wu ming stops by,

Spiegel has a blow by blow of the debate between Sego and Sarko the other night…

They spend the evening iwth a mostly leftischer group and write on the debate and the reactions of the gathering…

Royal and Sarkozy Go to the Mat

By Stefan Simons in Paris

From trenchant to gallant, venomous to polite, Nicolas Sarkozy and Ségolène Royal slogged through a two-hour TV duel on Wednesday. So who won?

A handful of guests have joined a Parisian advertising executive in his apartment to watch the TV debate between presidential candidates Nicolas Sarkozy and Ségolène Royal — lawyers, a salesman, a diplomat. It is certainly not a demographically representative cross section, the group is politically left-leaning, reflective of the area between the St. Lazare train station and the nightclub district Montmartre. Expectations are running high: “Royal has to convince the audience with substance,” the group agrees, “Sarkozy with his personality.”

15. brinn - 3 May 2007

That whole Welshman diary and the comments after have me laughing my fucking ass OFF!

How amazingly hilarious!

Mcat — I can find those threads as well if you need them. Recordkeeper was one of my faves — still get emails from her from time to time — Sally Cat is a crazed individual as far as I can tell — no real grasp of anything substantive, including her self-importance.

And Soj?? He/she/it of the “go out and shoot people” fame? The Soj who proudly posted about the grand new business of pimping Romainian women? That Soj? Fuck him/her/it.

16. marisacat - 3 May 2007

brinn exactly, the same soj of the many entities from Great Crime Fighter in AR (chum of the Asa Hutchison family, if one were to believe the drivel) to street child in Mexico City.

One gets whiplash reading himherit.

17. marisacat - 3 May 2007

YUM! Madam madam, who’s got a madam:

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:

A legal secretary at Akin Gump, one of Washington’s most prominent law firms, has been suspended after telling her bosses she secretly worked for, and at times helped run, the escort service run by the “D.C. Madam,” Jeane Palfrey.

Read the full story at ABCNEWS.com and watch Friday on “20/20.”

ABC News Report on Akin Gump secretary, part time madam!

18. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

The Republican Debate takes place tonight. I don’t understand why we should be focusing on 2008 right now. There must be tons of money at stake, is the only reason I can think of.

True, liberalcatnip – nearly two years to go and they’re already shutting people up. How can you make a decision as important as choosing a Presidential candidate if you are not allowed to hear anything negatove about them?

All it says is that DK is just a big campaign headquarters and if you want to know about candidates, they are the last place to look if you want to make an informed decision. They may as well drape it in red, white and blue and hand out buttons and literature.

Which is why I’d like to know what Glenn Greenwald thinks of blogs playing this role. He is critical of the press doing it, handing out talking points.


US Acting Attorney Gen. James Comey testified before Congress today. Finally!

Comey Testifies

Comey also praised Paul K. Charlton, former chief prosecutor in Arizona. He was “a very strong U.S. attorney, one of the best. I respected him a great deal and would always listen to what he had to say,” Comey said.

He disputed Justice Department assertions that Charlton’s resistance to seeking the death penalty should have been a basis to dismiss him.


Comey e-mailed Cummins on March 8 to say that the controversy “causes me great pain.” He promised to defend the dismissed prosecutors.

“I will not sit by and watch good people smeared,” he wrote in the e-mail turned over to Congress. “What’s the quotation about all that’s necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to remain silent?”

I really like Comey – he is reasonable and fair and like a breath of fresh air in his testimony, compared to the pack of liars we’ve been exposed to so far. The DOJ was destroyed under this administration. All those fired should be re-instated. Especially Carol Lam who was just honored by they Bar Association.

19. lucidculture - 3 May 2007

From what I recall Jerome is really tight with PP – there was a whole photo diary once posted when he visited her in Amsterdam. I think he is safely within the fold – though he has occassionally gotten pissed off about not being asked to be a FPer.

I often enjoy what he writes as well, but am very suspicious of his alliances… Then again he also once wrote a terrible diary chastising smokers as being subhuman – something that really pisses me off even though I plan on being an ex-smoker sometime this month.

20. JJB - 3 May 2007


Yep, that Soj, the bigender former Romanian and small town Georgia, USA cop (or was ItSheHe just a stenographer who sat in on interrogations?) who got into the email order bride business, and who has apparently never been seen or spoken to by any of the people who allow ItHerHim such a wide lattitude on the blogs they rigidly police for any sign of deviance from the approved house opinions. Most of the people here have been banned at Little Orange Footballs and Froggy’s Bottoms, but Soj is still a welcome, often honored, guest at both places, as well as Jerome a P’s site.

Makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

21. liberalcatnip - 3 May 2007

Ha. I knew the name Akin Gump was familiar.

Considered one of the most powerful firms in Washington, Akin Gump partners make up a who’s who of Washington insiders, including Vernon Jordan, former Speaker of the House Tom Foley, former Secretary of Health and Human Services Tommy Thompson, former Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman and co-founder Robert Strauss, an adviser to numerous presidents.

Interesting clients:

* CNOOC Ltd (Chinese National Oil Corpooration)

“President Bush’s top independent intelligence adviser met last winter with investment bankers in China to help secure his law firm’s role in lobbying for a state-run Chinese energy firm and its bid for the U.S. oil company Unocal Corp., according to his law firm, Akin Gump.

The involvement of James C. Langdon Jr., chairman of the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board and a major Bush fundraiser, underscores the tangled Washington connections beneath CNOOC Ltd.’s bid…

Langdon’s involvement, given his dual role as Bush intelligence adviser and energy lawyer at the law firm Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP, may prove politically problematic, some security experts said. Members of the intelligence board, known as PFIAB, are granted the highest security clearance and develop top-secret advisories and reports for the president, most of which are not even available to members of Congress.”

22. marisacat - 3 May 2007

oh lucid.. you can smoke around me anytime… 😉

So many people told me to take Mother’s cigarettes away from her… last thing on earth I would do.

She made it a lot longer (91) than all the nay sayers.

Which is not to say if you feel unwell smoking that you should continue. Just that it became religion in thsi country to issue dicta to others about their lives.

Jerome also did a nasty diary about prostitutes as well. Pretty ugly and ignorant.

23. liberalcatnip - 3 May 2007

True, liberalcatnip – nearly two years to go and they’re already shutting people up. How can you make a decision as important as choosing a Presidential candidate if you are not allowed to hear anything negatove about them?

It’s kind of ironic that, as much as Greenwald excoriates the MSM for its use of talking points, kossacks who actually do want a fuller perspective of the candidates will have to turn to them for the negative stuff (except for what comes down from the almighty kos who, unlike the rest of the “community”, can bash any candidate he wants to without any complaints).

24. lucidculture - 3 May 2007

As for Bratton – he was of ‘broken windows’ fame – zero tolerance policies on ‘vandalism’ and other ‘quality of life’ issues as the means to reduce crime. It is that sentiment that in my opinion destroyed this city. They began enforcing archaic cabaret laws to shut down the music scene. They enacted ‘quality of life’ initiatives to outlaw drinking in parks, etc. They initiated a zero tolerance pot policy which not only got a lot of my friends arrested, but ended of getting some of them fired as well. They cleared out the legal residents of squats to turn public land over to developers. Oh – and the ‘street crime unit’ that shot Diallo and tortured Luima, Bratton’s baby… Thanks Bill.

It really doesn’t surprise me that he presided over Tuesday’s bloodshed.

25. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

So it looks like the Madame’s attorney was right, regarding the professions of the women who worked for her! Too funny, and Randy Tobias described the whole process as ‘like ordering pizza’. Sort of a clue as to their opinion of women in general, even educated ones!

This is going to be lots of fun for the summer –

Lucid, I never liked Jerome much after he sucked up to kos. I see Opol doing the same thing now. Both have created a lot of controversy which got many people banned. Yet, they go on and suck up forgetting those who fought for their right to post there. Not a word about them, like a ‘thank you’ maybe. That’s what I liked about Comey. He did that. He acknowledged, in a much more dangerous environment, the people who had stood up for what was right, when he gave his own farewell speech in 2005. That could have affected his career.

It’s sad that so few have the guts or the Independent spirit any movement requires if it’s going to be successful. Less and less I’m blaming kos – seems like people don’t mind being used so long as they can have an audience – yeah, I know, that’s not ‘pragmatic’ of me. But to me, they are enablers and that interferes with changing things that are wrong. I have no respect for them, and think their ‘pragmatism’ claims are just to excuse their less-than-honorable behavior.


MC – ‘loyalty oaths’? It gets scarier and scarier the more I learn about these people.

26. marisacat - 3 May 2007

well then there is the soft version. Less DD but still a finger shake. Bite that metaphorical finger off!

I guess what I am trying to say is that we need to respect each other, our knowledge, our intelligence, and the candidates because once the nominee is chosen we will all have to work together to get a Democrat elected to the Oval Office. Can we all call a truce and work together to promote our candidates without being negative about others or insulting to the supporters of each candidate? That will make it much easier for the camps to meld and support whoever wins the nomination and get the Republicans out of the White House.

All very well and good to couch it in not insulting one another, but it never stays there. These things always become a roadblock.

Earlier he/she references the 2003/04 primary run. Missed a lot. FWIW Dean supporters were browbeaten. Just politics, but let’s not pretend it did not happen.

I was able to get behind the campaign because I was always treated nicely by the Kerry camp even when I was working on getting the nomination for Dean. I am not sure I would have devoted the time if I had seen consistent attacks on Dean or been insulted by people from the Kerry camp.

“duranta”, who works in one of the projects in NO, an organiser, has a good quote in the thread.

27. JJB - 3 May 2007

So the Madame had someone working inside at Akin, Gump! This woman had access to all kinds of useful information, and the notion that she wouldn’t (for example) have peddled some inside dope to the other side in some big deal or other is too naive for words. She would have all sorts of business and personal information on all sorts of subjects about all sorts of powerful people. And tell me that she didn’t arrange for some of the firm’s clients and some of its partners to utilize the services of her other place of employment, I can always use a good laugh, and that would have me gasping for breath and going incontinent.

28. XP - 3 May 2007

Thanks Marisa for posting about this. This has become a major juggernaut against the “Others.” Here in TX, our state legislature is about to pass a couple of bills that would suppress the vote of thousands of Latinos.

29. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

Oh, great catch, Catnip! I remember reading about that law firm also. What a tangled web it is with both parties. Vernon Jordan who got Monica Lewinsky a job, airc. Many people speculated whether she was a plant, a temptation to Clinton, to keep him in line, knowing his ‘weaknesses’. I never thought so, at least not consciously, but is it beyond belief now?

And this:

Langdon’s involvement, given his dual role as Bush intelligence adviser and energy lawyer at the law firm Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP, may prove politically problematic, some security experts said.

Lol, more and more I’m thinking that ‘Escort Service’ is not what it seems. Spying on top government officials, using prostitutes as bait and then keeping them in line by bribing them. That would explain so many of them backing down on important issues. Damn, if it turns out to be true! We are screwed, if these idiots are so stupid as to fall into such traps.

30. marisacat - 3 May 2007

oh lucid… the Disneyfication of Manhattan. Broke my heart.

CNN happened to cover the day the Metropolitan Diner closed in Times Square, their last day after 50 years in one family. Nice old fashioned, lots of aluminum in view, diner. Stood in my kitchen with tears on my cheeks.

For what? For Rudy and Disney and bullshit.

All the top cops that fanned out from the Guiliani regime are a horror, from Timoney to Bratton. Kerik, an dout and out criminal.
… and Kelly too.

I think that McBride, the old San Jose top cop who has been at the Hoover Inst was a mollifying factor in some of the early years of Bratton in LA… but I think McBride is off the scene.

All those men are effing mean. Vicious.

31. marisacat - 3 May 2007


if you write on what is in the TX leg w/r/t the Latino vote, drop me an email, i will post it…

Thanks for having those videos at your post.. I think more than a few viewed them last night.

32. lucidculture - 3 May 2007

Exactly JJB. The madame would be wise to hire some body guards. With all the political and corporate dirt she likely has I wouldn’t be surprised if there aren’t backroom discussions going on about taking her out.

33. marisacat - 3 May 2007


Here you go. Just a sub thread with Recordkeeper indicating to leave her alone. The post and the whole thread is around 220 comments, link to the whole post/thread is there, if you want it.. BMT had a very tumultuous late fall in 2005. IMO his site never really recovered.

34. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

Here in TX, our state legislature is about to pass a couple of bills that would suppress the vote of thousands of Latinos. XP

I wonder if any of the US As from Pat Roberson’s law school were involved in any way. This is one of the issues that has come up in the US A scandals. Maybe you should check out who the US As were if there are any prosecution issues, ie, felony claims being used to push those bills. Just a thought.

It was in Texas also that the entire corporate fraud unit was eradicated and replaced by more corporate friendly US As. The two women attorneys ending up dead. Nothing is beyond imagination with these criminals.

Lucid, thanks for the reminder about Bratton. I had forgotten much of what he did, since Kerik was so much worse. I wonder will anyone attack Giuliani tonight on his record? The only one likely to do that would be Ron Paul, and I’m not sure he’s going to be there.

35. outofwater - 3 May 2007

To her credit, MSOC is allowing ABTD’s cage to be rattled:

WHY did you axe Madman? (0.00 / 0)

Which rule did he break?

-9.63, -7.03 If I can’t rant, I don’t want to be part of your revolution.


by: Maryscott O’Connor @ Wed May 02, 2007 at 22:24:55 PM PDT

Libelled me and Markos (0.00 / 0)

He continually lied and said we were on the take from the Democratic Party.
That was the rule he broke. the libel rule.

BTW, I know this place hasa no rules, except for me to not be toooo mean to people.
Only one I ever saw you invoke was to tell me to cool it. And take a break. And then ask me back. And then forget you did.


by: Armando @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 10:54:24 AM PDT

Two questions (0.00 / 0)

1. You and Markos aren’t on the Democratic Party’s payroll? Who knew that?
2. Even if false, why is the suggestion libelous? It’s not as if you’d act any differently if you were on the payroll.


by: sometime @ Thu May 03, 2007 at 11:39:43 AM PDT

[ Parent | Reply ]

She must be willing to finally cut him lose. Good for her.

36. marisacat - 3 May 2007

well I don’t think so, cut him loose, I mean.

She jsut needs to fight and can’t run over to Dkos and know a line up of “made men” enemies will appear. And the match can commence.

37. marisacat - 3 May 2007

And her latest schtick is that Madman was a source of enlightenment for her.

She forgets all her invitations to him to FP at MLW. He never even bothered to register.

She simply wanted then, and now, to use Madman to poke at Armando – and whomever else.

38. ms_xeno - 3 May 2007

Speaking of Timony, is it just my imagination or does the New Yorker run some in-depth[sic] slobber piece on some super-cop or another about every damn month now ?

For more fun stuff about Bratton’s Bullies, there’s always the 5/2 post from Five Before Midnight‘s blog. Lots of good quotes and links there.

39. outofwater - 3 May 2007

Oh. It looked good on paper at any rate.

40. ms_xeno - 3 May 2007

Armando uses the word “libel” the same way that D*v*d B*r*n and a jackass or two at Mo Betta whose eyes I caught as the resident “nobody” use the word “authoritarian.” No bearing on reality, no relation to the actual definition. It just means whatever they want it to mean, and they pull it out like a magic charm whenever cornered.

41. marisacat - 3 May 2007


well you never know. She could find some sense under a rock. LOL Stranger things have happened.

But i think she is wedded to the idea that these Boyz, even a partial set, can help her.

I think that is what it is all about.

You’d think she;d notice the downward trajectory of depending on them…

42. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

Thanks for the link to the Jerome thread, MC. I just glanced at it and it’s mind-numbing, the number of internal controversies that have gone on. Welshman and Jerome, eg – fighting over soj with Booman siding with Jerome, who are both defending soj, someone no one knows anything about and is totally scary, airc.

My head is spinning. Who can you trust of these kossacks, from kos all the way down through the ranks? Not even worth trying to figure out. All you could do is throw up your hands and get the hell away from them! They all seem crazy to me. This comment from the thread says it perfectly:

I sometimes wonder if the bigwigs in the liberal blogosphere realise that their interpersonal relationships/business arrangements have taken on the complexity (not to mention the absurdity) of a Marx Brothers film?

And this from Glenn Greenwald describes them perfectly also, except he’s not talking about them:

(3) National journalists wallow endlessly in vacuous, vapid, empty-headed, petty gossip, obsessed with meaningless chatter and snide, personality-based assaults more appropriate for a junior high clique than anything else.

And they do so while ignoring the most substantive and consequential political matters.

Vapid, has he checked out the feminnnissssmss stuff I wonder? Glenn Greenwald may be right about the media, but he needs to spend more time on the blahhhgs. In a contest, I think they’d win hands down as to who is more vapid or jr. high clique oriented. Maybe I’ll send him a few threads since he’s apparently oblivious about it all. Which is fine, so long as he doesn’t write stuff like this in defense of the blogs.

As for the latest flamefest, I still think armando is a very poor judge of people. I don’t think he would need money, for one thing, he seems to be one of the few of them that actually had a real job. And for him to still believe that kos can afford his near millionaire lifestyle based on his ads is either extremely naive, or a deliberate lie which I doubt. The truth probably will come out, it would be foolish for him, or anyone else to participate in any deception re who’s funding that site.

But when Madman asked the questions, he so looked up to kos (which discredits his judgement totally imo) it never occurred to him that kos might not be telling him everything. And apparently still doesn’t. Anyway, it’s more likely that Kos may be funded by a private individual or organization. If it was the DP there have to be disclosure wouldn’t there? So I suppose he could call it a lie to say it was the DP.

If it all turns out to be true and armando did not know, he will owe a lot of people an apology.

43. wu ming - 3 May 2007

thanks for the recap on the debate. it certainly sounds a lot more substantive and less scripted than what passes for political discussion over here.

while i generally like jerome’s stuff esp. his site, the soj business was a main reason for welshman breaking off from eurotrib and starting new international times, which is as brit liberal democratic a place as eurotrib is continental socialist.

so many factions and fallings-out. every time a fight bubbles up, i end up having to add another site to my reading list. ah well, human nature, i suppose.

44. wu ming - 3 May 2007

as for maryscott’s bringing madman up, i think she’s being honest here. often an argument that you don’t “get” in one context will resurface when you’re in a different spot down the road, and can see what you missed before. as people run afoul of the blogheelers (thx to madman for the term IIRC), they tend to take the longstanding critics of the blogheelers’ arguments more seriously, and often internalize them.

i tend to think that there is a lot of grey area and complexity in between the consensus here and the bully corps at daily kos (and no, that is not intended to suggest an equivalency, to be clear). not that anyone should be beyond criticism, but just that i don’t think people are as black and white as they are sometimes portrayed. then again, i’m in a rather unique position of being on talking terms with a lot of folks that are dead to one another, so perhaps i’m unintentionally glossing things over.

not passing judgement or carrying anyone’s water but my own, but that’s how i see it.

45. missdevore - 3 May 2007

only wu ming understands everyone.

46. liberalcatnip - 3 May 2007

BMT had a very tumultuous late fall in 2005. IMO his site never really recovered.

That’s because I left. [insert appropriate snarky smiley here]

47. liberalcatnip - 3 May 2007

I see our queen is in Virginia. Do you guys want to keep her? We’ve had more than enough of her here.

48. wu ming - 3 May 2007

ha! miss d, that old line again.

49. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

Sen. Reid’s STFU Diary? Shades of DK:

Reid Defends His ‘presidentials,’ takes a jab at Edwards

As former Sen. John Edwards’s (D-N.C.) TV ad on the Iraq supplemental continues to cause friction in the Democratic presidential field, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) heaped praise Thursday upon “the presidentials” in his caucus for keeping their rivalry out of caucus business.

“They’ve caused me no concern, caused the caucus no concern,” Reid told reporters, referring to his four “presidentials” — Democratic Sens. Joseph Biden (Del.), Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.), Chris Dodd (Conn.) and Barack Obama (Ill.).

That quartet is grappling with intense pressure to craft a strategy on the supplemental bill that satisfies the party’s anti-war base while not alienating centrist 2008 voters or their majority leader.

The pressure boiled over on Wednesday, when Dodd’s camp jabbed at Edwards’s new ad, airing in Washington, D.C., and likely expanding to Iowa markets, which urges Democratic lawmakers to send President Bush the same supplemental “again and again” until Bush signs the bill. But Reid pointed out that none of the four presidential hopefuls have missed votes that hurt the caucus, calling the foursome “respectful” and “constructive” in their approach to issues.

They can’t ban him, because he’s no longer in the Senate – kos will probably get a memo if he hasn’t already – and Edwards supporters are likely to be furious. It’s going to be a fun two years.

50. marisacat - 3 May 2007

wu ming

sorry for the delay on the comment.. I hd a hot meal and long hot shower…


If Reid is pushing at Edwards iwth a barely concealed slapwa, they are trying to consolidate the one two punch of Hillary and OBama.

Oh well politics. And I had long suspected Edwards only got that “win” in NC as the local machines did a deal with Helms. Nothing else makes sense, But only guessing.

Reid can hit back with how little Edwards showed up for the Intell committee when he did serve.


51. marisacat - 3 May 2007

well wu ming I will add one thing.

Loyalty oaths – they were blogswarmed thru the site from spring of 2003 onward, directed at Dean supporters… later there was a regime to run Dean Supporters off (Democrats and Democrat voting Ind.) I take those things seriously – aside from what was done, all along to Green and Nader supporters — then the STFU tirades (still going).

There was not mere influence and encouragement / discouragement at the site, there ws full on bullying.

And working hand in hand with Delaware Dem, who hates women, wants abortion criminalised after 10 weeks or so, operates as a Dem party organiser, (low level without a doubt) would fellate the pope before he’d touch a woman (just my opinion) doing all of that when you purport to be for women and womens rights…

Some things are clear cut, in my book. Esp wanting, endlessly, things, tangibles from the very people carrying out the ward heelers regime.

These are merely my opinions. But I don’t take any of that lightly. Nor did I take Voyeurs lightly.

52. wu ming - 3 May 2007

fair enough.

and given the choice between responding to me immediately and having a hot meal and shower, that’s a no brainer. i wouldn’t respond to me if a meal was in the way. the online obsession with immediacy is a flaw IMO, there’s more than enough time to let things percolate a bit or get real life stuff done. it’s one of the advantages of text, noone has to respond right this minute.

53. marisacat - 3 May 2007

wu ming

btw while i was eating NPR carried a great blow by blow of a rally (Sego) today in Paris, it ws via a correspondent for the BBC.

They may have audio at the NPR site.

54. colleen - 3 May 2007

That sent a chill up my spine. It’s May ‘07 and they’re already pushing SYFPH? Geez.

Markos loves authoritarian assholes, control freaks, bullies and thugs. He adores the pseudo-religious, the reflexively dishonest and little men like Jason who are more interested in power (and gluttony) than anything else.

55. brinn - 3 May 2007

Hey ya’ll! This is a hoot! At politico they have a page of member submitted questions that you can vote on to be asked of the repub candidates tonight!

I just voted that Tom Tancredo should be asked:

“Other than xenophobia, for what reason should Americans vote for you?”

Tons of fun for everyone!

56. Radfem - 3 May 2007

This was so seven years ago, DNC2000, which was before Bratton got here. Of course, that chief was Bernard Parks who is now on the city council and will be finger wagging at Bratton about it as he’s the lone opponant to Bratton’s upcoming reappointment as chief. Fine, but Parks, look inward at two demonstrations at least during your tenure that mirrored this one.

A reporter said that officers were laughing and saying, “double time, it’s time to tussle” while they were assaulting people.

They blamed it on the “instigators” but if that’s so, why did they shoot 240 foam bullets(which feel like anything but that when they hit you)at a much larger crowd some distance away?

Why are you shooting a “less lethal” shotgun in a way where it can cause lethal results if it hits someone in the face or head?

Also, they have middle management people in the LAPD running off to the Los Angeles Timesand telling its reporters that they don’t even know where these officers’ supervisors were or what they were doing when this was all going on.

The latest is that Bratton is getting the FBI involved. The mayor, Antonio Villaraigosa is still in El Salvador answering questions there about what happened at home and the police union is defending its members. The reporters might sue because for one thing, the officers violated an agreement between the two in place since 2002.

57. liberalcatnip - 3 May 2007

That quartet is grappling with intense pressure to craft a strategy on the supplemental bill that satisfies the party’s anti-war base while not alienating centrist 2008 voters or their majority leader.

They have one. It’s called the Twiddling Your Thumbs While More People Die (HR 666) bill.

58. liberalcatnip - 3 May 2007

Markos loves authoritarian assholes, control freaks, bullies and thugs. He adores the pseudo-religious, the reflexively dishonest and little men like Jason who are more interested in power (and gluttony) than anything else.

That description used to apply mainly to Republicans.

59. marisacat - 3 May 2007


voted for the same one you did.. thanks for the hoot..



Thanks for the update! Bratton hs had supportive quotes today for his cops. I am expecting little, tho they LAPD is, as I understand it, under Federal Watch. But so was the entire Fucking RNC (for obstruction of voting rights) when ’00 happened.

I think MacArthur Park was done to send a signal.

Hard to see it any other way.
Pity they kept Bernard Parks around, an asshole as well.



well with Kos DD DH and a few others leading the pack, and the former members of the pack now whiners on the sidelines… how is it not Republican.

it most certainly is reactionary! And conservative. And repressive. And regressive.

And so on.. 8)

60. supervixen - 3 May 2007

I used to like Jerome a Paris, because generally I like French people and his diaries were mostly interesting. We had many friendly exchanges in the comments and regularly rated each other’s contributions highly. When his son’s illness recurred, I offered in email to give him long-distance Reiki. Jerome sent me photos of him. Etc. But after this comment of his, as far as I’m concerned, Jerome can go fuck himself.

I recommended on other than the hrh saga (18+ / 0-)

I went to look at that (after recommending the diary), and spent quite a bit of time delving through that sad episode, and cannot deny that whatever point hrh may have had was totally annihilated by her behavior and other comments. She was not a troll but became one at some point, which I’m not in a position to determine.

I do think, however, that MaryScott makes a valid point in her diary. There ARE groups of self-appointed enforcers and they do end up being self-righteous and intimidating a lot of people around. There is a very real need for enforcement, and it can be a thankless task, but there is a fine line not to step over, and some do, I think.

All contrarians are not shit-stirrers.

by Jerome a Paris on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 09:41:41 AM PDT

He’s like the other gutless egomaniacs who are attracted to DKos like ants to Pepsi. He’ll do and say pretty much anything to keep his access to the Big Microphone.

His kid is still on my Reiki list, however.

61. supervixen - 3 May 2007

colleen: Markos loves authoritarian assholes, control freaks, bullies and thugs. He adores the pseudo-religious, the reflexively dishonest and little men like Jason who are more interested in power (and gluttony) than anything else.

That’s about the size of it.


re: rubber bullets – this is good paper from Harvard’s Kennedy School of Gov’t regarding “less-lethal” weapons for crowd control, with info on the tragic death of Victoria Snelgrove after the Red Sox won the World Series.

I don’t know if the quotes will come out OK, but here goes….

If there is any single incident that clearly demonstrated the need for stricter controls on the use of less-lethal weapons for crowd control, it was the fatal shooting of Victoria Snelgrove by the Boston Police Department in October 2004. What made this incident potentially pivotal on a national scale was the decision by Boston Police Commissioner Kathleen O’Toole within hours of the death to take full public responsibility and to promise a full, independent, unfettered inquiry into the shooting. It was a decisive moment, requiring its own kind of bravery. As a major city police chief, who asked not to named, told one of the authors during the subsequent inquiry, “She did the right thing, but frankly I’m not sure if I—or any of the rest of us—would have done the same.”

Ms. Snelgrove—a college sophomore—had been standing on the sidewalk across the street from Fenway Park the night that the Boston Red Sox defeated their archrival, the New York Yankees, in the seventh game of the 2004 American League Championship Series (ALCS). She was talking calmly with her friends outside of the garage where her car was parked while police, about 50 feet away, were trying to clear the crowded street of celebratory Red Sox fans, many of whom were drunk and boisterous. A Boston police officer, using an FN303 projectile launcher, fired a pepper ball round that hit Ms. Snelgrove in her left eye. That officer later explained that he was aiming at someone else moving through the crowd: an unidentified man whom he had earlier seen throwing bottles at police. The round missed its apparent target, hit Victoria Snelgrove in the eye, and fragmented as it entered her brain, killing her.

Victoria Snelgrove was not the only member of the crowd struck with less-lethal impact rounds that night. About 15 minutes earlier and less than 100 feet away, Boston police officers trying to stop celebrants who were climbing on the girders of Fenway Park’s back wall had fired multiple rounds from FN303 projectile launchers at other celebrants who were climbing on the girders of Fenway Park’s back wall. The impact rounds injured at least two of these celebrants in the face and caused multiple body injuries to a third. The manufacturer of the FN303 warns users never to fire the weapon at a target’s neck or head, but on this night the Boston police officers had injured four civilians, three of them in the face, killing one of them.

The Stern Commission’s Findings

Boston Police Commissioner O’Toole fulfilled her pledge to appoint an independent commission to investigate the incident. Chaired by Donald K. Stern, former U.S. Attorney for Massachusetts, the independent commission issued its report in May 2005. The Stern Commission noted how little the Boston Police Department apparently knew about the less lethal weapons it had recently brought into its arsenal. Even among the officers responsible for the purchase, maintenance, and deployment of the FN303s, which the police department had bought (but not used) for crowd control at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. Although senior BPD officials had studied the weapon, spoken with others who used it, tested it, and trained with it, the commission found there was confusion and disagreement about how the weapons should be issued, who was authorized to fire them, which policies governed their use, and what the rounds would actually do if they struck a person. In light of this confusion, it is not surprising that the commission concluded that the training available to officers in the use of the FN303 had been inadequate—specifically in its lack of attention to questions of when to use the weapon rather than how to use it.

The commission’s report also described how poorly the police had planned for the event, and how the planning failures contributed to the situation where the FN303 launchers were improperly deployed. Despite having distilled a series of crucial lessons from their own experience with a fatality during the celebration after the New England Patriots won the Super Bowl in January 2004, the leaders of the Boston Police Department did not incorporate the recommendations from that review into their plans for the 2004 ALCS with the Yankees. They had not developed a specific set of policies and tactics for “celebratory rioting”; they had not planned in advance to place officers above the street (e.g., on rooftops) in the area around Fenway Park; they had not established and maintained clear lines of command; they had not established explicit rules of engagement and communicated these to commanders and supervisors; and they had not developed and discussed strategies to deal with each of a series of alternative scenarios for how the celebration might unfold. All of these had been explicit recommendations following a similarly tragic celebration after the 2004 Super Bowl, yet the planning for the 2004 ALCS ignored them all.

Finally, the Stern Commission also faulted the performance of the Deputy Superintendent Robert O’Toole (no relation to Commissioner Kathleen O’Toole) who served as overall operational chief on the night of the final game of the series. While serving as operations chief, Deputy Superintendent O’Toole was simultaneously, by his own choice, commanding specific police units in the streets alongside Fenway Park. This fundamental role confusion was exacerbated as the scene around Fenway Park became more disorderly, eroding the department’s command and control systems. Although not trained in the use of the FN303, he personally led the assault on revelers climbing on the girders of the ballpark, firing an FN303 himself, and failed to observe how subordinate officers immediately around him were using their weapons only minutes before Ms. Snelgrove was shot.

The City of Boston agreed to pay a record $5 million to settle all claims by the Snelgrove family. In addition, Commissioner O’Toole demoted the Superintendent James M. Claiborne, who had been in charge of the planning for the event and who had served as incident commander that night. In addition, two officers who fired FN303s, including the officer who shot Ms. Snelgrove, were suspended.

The Boston Police are truly awful. They aren’t as bad as Philly police, but almost. I would take the NYPD over them any day.

62. Tuston - 3 May 2007

And Now for Something Completely different:

I don’t see that. But then, neither do I envision the Libertarian’s American nightmare of over-governance , martial law and mass detention. What I see instead is federal authority withdrawing from civilian oversight and replaced by for-profit contractors because it has better things to do than improve the lives of its subjects; things which usually make them worse. And maybe not incidentally so.

The occasional slaughter and ineffectual response of authorities presents portraits of order breaking itself down, and creates the impression We’re on our own. Such episodes provoke the purchase and the secreting of firearms by citizens, and not their removal by the state, however scary Dennis Kucinich may seem. So perhaps, as in New Orleans, the point is not a crackdown, but a crack-up.

Why? America is an unsustainable venture, but its ruling class means to survive well beyond the exhaustion of its public wealth, oil and water. This may now depend upon how well it induces and exploits the misery of its people, even as it extricates itself from the expectations of its alleviation.

From Jeff Wells latest post at RI.

BTW I was nearly run over today on I-19 as first a white DHS (can you say G-13?) truck came hurtling past me at over 95 mph (estimating, of course) followed by two run of the mill “chile verdes” trucks. A few miles down the road I saw that they had a car pulled over and two very large black duffels exposed in the trunk.

Just another moment en el paradiso, tortilla curtain stylee…

63. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 May 2007

Hi ya’ all!

Just discovered that one of the local public access channels shows “Democracy Now”, and with my new hours at the new position I’m actually home in time to watch (you wouldn’t know unless you go to the channel’s website to see their schedule … Time Warner doesn’t list it on their on-screen guide). Got to see a lot more footage of the police attack. It is plain that the press were specifically targeted, and it’s also, IMHO, no coincidence that the Mayor was far away and Bratton was too. One can’t help but feel that it was planned.

Gonna be an ugly summer.

64. marisacat - 3 May 2007

And Mahoney is staying out of it. Where as last year he made himself a broker, for god’s sake (quite literally)

Cute. Love those pontiffs in waiting.

65. supervixen - 3 May 2007

Sorry, I should have said AL playoffs, not the World Series. My bad.

police, about 50 feet away, were trying to clear the crowded street of celebratory Red Sox fans, many of whom were drunk and boisterous.

Celebratory Red Sox fans getting drunk and boisterous! Now that’s unexpected.

66. supervixen - 3 May 2007

Actually, this Reid “slapwa” may backfire on him. If Edwards manages to distance himself sufficiently from the lapdog Dems still in Congress, it can only be a good thing for his candidacy. I’ll go send him some money.

67. Miss Devore - 3 May 2007

svix–I love the dk party line how you “became a troll”. In view of some of MEsoc’s fans urging her to write a book about her blogging experiences, I think–when you have spare time from other writing should do a satirical work on your “evolution” as a “troll”. “Losing TU: One Banned Kosovarian’s Account”

fuck msnbc download adobe flashplayer 9 to get the video. I did. I refreshed page. it still doesn’t work, and EVERYTHING works on my new computer.

read thru the HRC (not to be confused with hrh, as they do at dk!) introduction of the reauthorization of war bill. however, looking into it, it seems that it is possible they can “reauthorize” on terms more appealing to the elected Dems.

In that Atlantic article we’ve often referred to here( the one that finds Hillary with the Seante prayer group), it also describes Hillary’s relationship with Byrd, and how she patiently she did her understudy duties with him.

68. supervixen - 3 May 2007

#42, SB:

And for him to still believe that kos can afford his near millionaire lifestyle based on his ads is either extremely naive, or a deliberate lie which I doubt. The truth probably will come out, it would be foolish for him, or anyone else to participate in any deception re who’s funding that site.

But when Madman asked the questions, he so looked up to kos (which discredits his judgement totally imo) it never occurred to him that kos might not be telling him everything. And apparently still doesn’t.

SB, Armando is a liar. He makes shit up, twists and spins, weasels, obfuscates, and then attempts to browbeat people into believing his lies. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it turned out he was well aware of all kinds of behind-the-scenes sleaziness at DKos, and that’s why he thought he was “safe” and could act as abusively as he liked.

He probably won’t say anything about the dirt because he’s hoping to get welcomed back into the fold sometime in the future, along with MSock.

69. liberalcatnip - 3 May 2007

So, Hillary announces she’s going to introduce a bill to withdraw the Iraq war authorization in October, 2007 – the anniversary date of the first AUMF. Whoop dee flipping doo. They just had their little symbolic showdown with “commander guy” by timing the veto with his mission accomplished stunt. What impact did they have? Zip.

Yet Hillary is now a political “genius” because of this move in the eyes of fawning centrist kossacks. You know what would be a genius flipping move? Impeaching the bastards and ending this fucked up war ASAP – not next year sometime when it will look good during the elections.

It’s ALL about political opportunism. Who cares about the dead bodies?

70. supervixen - 3 May 2007

#67, Miss D: Yes, good idea! “How I Became ‘An Enemy of the People'”

It’s all so Stalinist.

71. marisacat - 3 May 2007

Hillary is playing a form of scrabble. Shift the letters til she gets some way of moving on from that fucked vote.

And I am sorry to be cynical but the report coming out that Obama has very early SS protection and that it was Reid going to Chertoff… well color me sceptical. I smell PR. And again, separating Hillary and Obama from whoever else (I guess that is only really Edwards).

Tired line up.

72. Miss Devore - 3 May 2007

I do think of all the candidates, Obama would be the one most likely to be assassinated, because it’s a given there is some nutjob well-armed American that would itch to go after the pure symbolism of Obama.(and I mean “pure” in the sense of only as a symbol)

73. wu ming - 3 May 2007

any democratic president will be an assassination target. heck, any democrat that does anything but grovel to the right (and even then, milquetoast daschle got an anthrax letter, so noone’s safe).

if a dem manages to win the race in ’08, they had better do a thorough review of SS and capitol police. the reaction to anything but abslute victory is going to be ugly. i mean, clinton was basically the second coming of eisenhower, and even he had RW terrorists arming themselves from the day he took office.

74. marisacat - 3 May 2007

Well even ’92 as the second coming of Eisenhouwer looks liberal now. None of this crowd will be doing a bus tour the way the clintons did.. and accidentally got close to actual people. The kind who still breathe and don’t draw a government, campaign or national party pay check. that bus pulled into some chronically depressed areas of America. And even coming from AR, they were shocked at some of the desperation. Guess they never left the Hyatt in LR.

It dissipated fast as they assumed office and was barely more than veneer anyway.

3 months ago I was appalled at the self imposed restricted access for the primary candidates. Not that it matters, none of them is running on populist, liberal or human acknowledging issues. It makes 2002 – 04 look flaming liberal.

It is brutal how little they care. I read that a reporter was allowed to walk with Obama for a couple m inutes as he changed venues, but was not allowed to ask questions. It was an aside in a larger article on how the primary was shaping up.

If at all accurate, utterly disgusting.

They should simply nominate a Blackberry and be done with it.

75. Miss Devore - 3 May 2007

Hillary already has SS coverage seconday to former first lady status.

the question would be if jesse jackson or al sharpton were ever provided such coverage as presidential candidates. i.e.-were they ever considered “viable” enough to require it.

would be interesting to know the decision-making process behind it. guarding backers investments?

I am unexpectedly crabby due to some misfortune of someone I know. and am in a big bind cuz I have so much to do myself, but really want to give assist to this person.

makes me want to hit the sack now with a book (am reading Ricks’ “Fiasco” ) and fall asleep after 20 more pages.

knowing full well I’ll wake up again at some ungodessly hour…

76. Kevin Lynch - 3 May 2007

“Tin soldiers and Nixon’s coming

We’re finally on our own

This summer I here the drumming…”

this very well could be a bloody summer


77. marisacat - 3 May 2007

Jesse jackson racked up 7 million votes. And the party has never forgiven him. He ws def a challenger.

usually you have to emerge as the established frontrunner, or a second who is very close in numbers to the frontrunner to be assigned SS. A big transition. This is charatertised as 8 months early. Which seems about on track, tho with the early primaries and the squished sequence, maybe 6 months is closer to accurate for this schedule..

78. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 May 2007

hmmmm, throwing out some bucks for a babe in a tub, maybe?

HOT TIP: Grover Norquist on DC Madame Jeane Palfrey’s Client List.

79. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

Wu ming, I agree regarding the threat to any president, or candidate. This country has more than its share of seriously disturbed individuals.

SV, what a weasel Jerome was in that situation. How on earth could he, on the one hand, agree with Msoc about thugs, and on the other excuse one of the worst examples of mob thuggery I have ever seen? And to turn on someone who had been an ally! This is why I have no respect for him. He will grovel, and for what, to be able to post his diaries on a blog? Their priorities are pretty skewed. Pretty soon, he himself is likely to become a victim of the same mob. They have been after him for a while. I used to rec his diaries just to spite them, but I wouldn’t now. ‘First they came for hrh ……’ they should remember that little poem. It is very instructive.

There is a line in the movie, one of my fav. movies btw, A Man For All Seasons, when Thomas Moore confronts Richard Rich after he looks at the reward he got for betraying him, I can’t remember the quote exactly, but he expresses his dismay that he would have done it for so little. That’s how I feel about these people who throw their friends away for the privilege of posting on what is really in the scheme of things, a pretty obscure blog.

80. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

Rotfl, Madman I saw something about that earlier today, and I admit I was praying it was true. There were some great comments around the tubes about Grover and his bathtub.

81. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 May 2007

Brownfemipower reminds us:.

state brutality is not an anomaly.

82. Madman in the Marketplace - 3 May 2007

D.C. Housing Complex Cameras Tell Residents Not To Loiter

Residents of a recently renovated Columbia Heights apartment complex — many of them poor and using Section 8 housing benefits — are now live under the gaze of surveillance cameras, monitored from afar by employees of a private company who can bark instructions at residents via loudspeakers. Dave Jamieson’s story from Washington DC’s City Paper dates to July of last year, but I didn’t know this technology was in the States yet. I’m much relieved to learn we have imported it from England.

The tenants of Faircliff, a 112-unit low-income housing complex, are now enjoying the fruits of a recently completed $16 million city-financed rehabilitation project. Along with the fresh carpeting, modish playground equipment, and new community center came a state-of-the-art security system, aimed at helping Faircliff shed its reputation as an open-air drug market and better meld with the $400,000 condos sprouting up elsewhere on Clifton Street NW. The system includes not only cameras on all of the residential buildings but also what surveillance-industry types refer to as “one-way voice” intercoms, meaning tenants can be addressed by their watchers but cannot respond to them.

The powers that be just love the Clampdown.

83. Tuston - 3 May 2007

She should have had a commercial…

Two Limos stop in an el campo real setting. The dark tinted windows roll down slowly and GHWB extends a litch like leprous limb, with a lusty gesture to handcuffed Grover in the neighboring vehicle. The wrinkled wretch wears a silken set of flag festooned pj’s, but his fellow rider=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJZoai2HIeA”>Terri Hatcher only wears a ball gag and various genatlia crimping metal clips. Grover for his part is being sodomized by a black/filipino recent Yaley who is repeatedly reciting all of Iago’s lines in a loop.
“Pardon me,” intones the dusty supulchre creep of the Elder George’s voice, “but do you have any Jeane Palfrey?”

84. Tuston - 3 May 2007

Sorry, broken link=

Terri Hatcher

85. wu ming - 3 May 2007

i don’t know how long or where he stayed, but edwards did spend some time down in fresno a month or so ago talking with UFW members and citrus farmers about the freeze damage. only democrat that i’m aware of that’s ventured beyond sacramento in the valley (well, dodd spoke at a longshoreman’s hall in west sac yesterday, but he’s lucky if he even ends up a cabinet member, he’s so far back). whole lot of grinding poverty down there, not sure if it was more than a quick photo op, but i credit him for even noticing they exist.

86. Tuston - 3 May 2007

Edwards was in Tucson today…

Amazingly, I missed his brief appearance (/not)

87. marisacat - 3 May 2007

I saw Norquist dabate at Oxford once. He appeared in a state of thrill.

Whata bunch.

88. marisacat - 3 May 2007
89. colleen - 3 May 2007

HOT TIP: Grover Norquist on DC Madame Jeane Palfrey’s Client List.

Delicious, Matt Stoller’s hero and role model. Of course Norquist is much, much more than the head of a conservative think tank. He’s the guy who wanted to drown the federal government6 in a bath tub and destroy the NARP and Planned Parenthood, the guy whose offices were busted by the treasury Dept after 9/11 because Wahabi ‘charities’ were operating out of them, he’s the GOP’s money launderer, their go-to guy and so much else.


That description used to apply mainly to Republicans.

It does not matter what they call themselves, they’re still the same bastards.

90. Tuston - 3 May 2007

I’m off tomorrow to celebrate my b-day and the incredible Princess Katterfly and mine’s sixth anniversary of unwedded bliss (we met at a hemp rally on mi cumpleaños, dontcha know!) this cinco de mayo weekend so forgive me for my earliness, but just a little reminder about what this kinda marginal to mexicans, but sooo important for tequila and corona sales to nostoros pinche gringos, holiday is really commemorating:

Cinco de Mayo

One day I’ll get my thoughts together on Maximillian, a somewhat sympathetic figure IMnotsoHO, and Cinco de Mayo and write an essay or something about it. Its deep and I think I need to re read Conrad’s Lord Jim before I deluded myself enough to endeavor to write it.

I live that hell, myself. At least a little bit, and in my own genetically recessive mind.

An excerpt from the link above:

Maximilian of Habsburg was named Emperor of Mexico attending the invitation of the conservative “Club de Notables” led by Miguel Gutierrez Estrada and Father Francisco Javier Miranda. Although in intention Maximilian was not a monster and acted in ways that the conservatives and clergy criticised (declared free press, proclaimed general amnesty for political prisoners, donned regional costumes, ate local food, and suggested that many priests he met could profit from some basic lessons in Christian charity), he signed the October decree in 1865 by which the death penalty was made mandatory for all captured Juaristas still bearing arms and was to be carried out without appeal within 24 hours of capture

BTW and in case I don’t get the chance to contribute a comment to this groovalicious salon tomorrow (yeah, so what if I’ve gotten into the Anejo ya! Si, tenga crudo, yo pagare):

Forever remember Kent State! (/bows to Kevin)

My mom was hopped up on scopolamine and in horrific “twilight sleep” shortly after it happened and 17 hours later I was here, cyanotic and technically dead… somehow I knew they were using live rounds and my abiku nature damnanded a regotiation.

I lost.

And so here I sit in the middle of the Kali yuga, wishin’ somehow that people could just really realize we are all one family (depraved, and thrice damned cousins included)

Ay! ya me voy…my querida princessa me desea…

91. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

So sad – this post from a member of Democraticunderground who opposed the war:

My Brother Died In Iraq Today

maggiegault (355 posts) Thu May-03-07 04:37 PM
Original message

My brother was killed in Iraq today. His vehicle took an IED hit.

Refresh | 278 Recommendations

That’s all she said. Many Iraqis died today also.

Sad that the whole thing is just a big political game to so many, the politicians, the blahgers, the media et al. Too bad that they don’t seem to grasp the reality of what this war does every day to the lives of millions of human beings. Maybe if they really could empathize, on a human rather than a political level with the victims of their wars, they would be less willing to support them.

It isn’t that this one death is more important than others, but his sister is a blogger. She’s not one of the BBB, but she does have her own blog. Her brother left a wife and a baby. And this will happen each and every day to other victims of the lies they told. The troops, the Iraqi people – and there is no sign of it ending. And the blahgers say we have to give the Dems time, as if there was time!

92. marisacat - 3 May 2007

It’s not going to end.

I want the media to find a family that was destroyed by Vietnam AND now has been destroyed, again, by Iraq.

Because you know they are out there.

93. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

There is one I know of, Marisacat. Well, not in the sense that anyone died yet, but the diary I posted that was troll-rated on DK a few threads back. The diarist is a Vietnam Vet, totally opposed to this war, his two sons (and now a third) are in the military. One has just been redeployed to Iraq, the other just returned from Afghanistan.

He tried to dissuade his third son (18) from joining the military, but couldn’t. He hoped the military would reject him, for reasons that he believes they should have. But they didn’t. I think he himself may be disabled, either physically or mentally, not sure. And his diary was given a troll tag on dk.

Great post, Tuston – happy 6th anniversary – those trucks, btw, were they US drivers, or Mexican? I read that the Truckers here are planning to block the highways to protest Mexican trucks being allowed to drive here in the US and threaten their jobs. Haven’t heard any more about it.

94. Tuston - 3 May 2007

SB….interesting I scanned a spanish language paper in Nogales el martes pasado that said “TRAILEROS Causan Caus en el Reten” …the truckers had decided to occupy both lanes of the two lane highway at the checkpoint just south of Santa Anna and about 100K north of Hermosillo…folks in cars (gringo turistas included) get to zip thru but the trucks wait in line for hours on end to get thru…pretty brave of the truckers to face down soldiers with full autos (of course los soldados son indios pobres, and I don’t think they’d fire on more than rabbits without serious provocation)… ya know whole trailer of mota “confiscated” there once…

I really gotta go now…PK is patient, but she ain’t no saint (shhhh! she’s not reading my drivel right now, so I ‘ve got enough leash to hang myself….upside down, and by the foot of course!)

95. Tuston - 3 May 2007

OKay this is really it, (hey I like ya’ll but I luv PK) gonna run

but I realize I didn’t answer:
were they US drivers, or Mexican

US Feds drove the trucks and busted mules (mexicans or not, I couldn’t see)

Gotta go and grab some chocolate before I go (she’s callin

96. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

Lol, I’d wave to PK but that might get you in trouble! Just kidding.

Re the truckers, thanks – I hadn’t heard any more about that. A hemp convention! Anyway, have a great birthday!

97. marisacat - 3 May 2007


I remember that people posted here about that diary. The treatment of him was awful.

Anyone truly opposed to the war, to occupation and invasion to aerial bombing, to destroying a society — really could not tolerate Dkos as it has become.

I have long since realised that opposition to the war early on from Kos was two fold, Dem propaganda as fake opposition to Bush and that the early blogs in 2001/2/3 were the ‘War Blogs”. To get traction you needed to be for or against.

Anyone worth anything would be grinding their teeth over the weeks — hell MONTHS and years if we go all the way back — of fake positioning from the Democrats. So clear at the outset that is all it was, ever.

I caught a lovely bit of sneak in the Jake Tapper column. Early version referred to the Dem weasels today as “A serene lump of Democrats” then it was changed to “A serene group of Democrats”.

Lumps with no spine. An asshole and some vestigial feet-like (4 of those) appendages. Fluff of hair here and there and a mouth.

About it.


98. Sabrina Ballerina - 3 May 2007

Fluff of hair here and there and a mouth.

Rotfl! So true! And teeth, don’t forget Biden!

Dk does not want to talk about the war ending – or about impeaching the criminals who started it. Or election fraud (btw, Florida has gone to paper ballots, with a Republican Gov!) And Feeney really is in trouble. Bradblog kept up the fight and is probably persona non grata at dk. He did some great reporting on Feeney’s role in election fraud a few years ago.

I’ve never seen a link to his site there. Or to Rawstory. They denigrate everyone. These were the fighters, never dk. They have never stopped pushing to get things done. I keep asking, what has DK accomplished? I know what some of the other sites have done, like Bradblog, eg. Getting Paper ballots into Florida is success! While Dk could not care less about issues, ‘ideas’ others have gone forward without them. And accomplished things.

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