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Have an Open Thread… 4 May 2007

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.


A few things going on, will clear out Moderation and Spam late today…  Enjoy!




1. acmn27 - 4 May 2007

I posted my first comment on the last thread. Just wanted to add that I have enjoyed every moment I’ve spent reading here. Lotta’ laughs, and the information content is excellent. Thanks.

I’m new to commenting on blogs, so I don’t know all the ins and outs, rules, etc., but I’ll try to add something once in a while.

2. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

Hi acmn27 – glad you’re here and you’re doing great so far –

I know it’s mean, but I’m getting lots of laughs out of the DC Madame story – how can you not laugh at a guy who advocated ‘abstinence and faithfulness’ whose name shows up as a client of the DC Madame? You can’t make that stuff up.

Or Mr. Shock and Awe who seems a little shocked himself these days, while we watch and wait in awe to see which of the hypocrites will be next?

D.C. Lawyer Demands ABC News Keep His Client Secret

The lawyer for a “government witness” in the federal prosecution of Jeane Palfrey, the accused D.C. Madam, is demanding his client’s name not be broadcast by ABC News.

In a letter to ABC News, Steven Salky of Zuckerman Spaeder in Washington, D.C., said he has “reason to believe” that his client might be named in this Friday’s “20/20” report about the alleged prostitution ring.

But Salky did not identify who his client is.

ABC News has made contact with an extensive list of men traced to phone records of Palfrey’s escort service business.

In his letter to ABC News, Salky claimed broadcasting his client’s name would violate a court order preventing “Ms. Palfrey from engaging in acts or actions against Government witnesses.”

Lol, ‘government witness’! Very clever of Ms Palfry to get around the order not to release the names of her clients.

Wonder if that might be Grover Norquist? His bathtub runneth over!

3. Miss Devore - 4 May 2007

welcome acmn27! It is a great blog; you might get called a viper by those outside the den, or be declared dead by self-appointed high-priestesses of the blahgosphere, but we just slough those scales off.

4. Miss Devore - 4 May 2007

Harlan Ullman contemplates title for tell-all book: “From Schock and Awe to cock and jaw….?”

5. lucidculture - 4 May 2007

Hi acmn27. Welcome to the ‘last bastion of the damned’ as one of our ‘admirers’ has called us. We’re a funny bunch & to grasp the humor, you might need to hang around a bit – there are a fair number of inside jokes at this joint.

Anyhow – just a note on the last thread.I certainly respect all the opinions put forth on this issue, but I really find myself with Mcat on this one – I never give cops the benefit of a doubt – for a whole host of reasons. For one, the people who take such positions more often than not do so because they psychologically need power over others – inherent bullies. For two, our ‘justice system’ is an oxymoron. It is increasingly a system of social control and conformity – and those who do not conform are simply punished. There is not a hint of the intrisic sense of balance that defines the very word justice. Justice is no longer even simply retributive [also a misnomer] – it punishes because of difference alone. We are watched at all times – the Bentham model of the prison system extrapolated upon the social milieu at large… and there are a host of other issues here, but I ramble.

Then of course, I’m also an anarchist, so I have my utopianism to blame here as well.

6. acmn27 - 4 May 2007

Sabrina and Miss D – Thanks for the welcome! Alas, no worries. I AM a viper. And declared dead? I can resuscitate by the magic of sheer feminine will!

Off now to feed my tribe of kitties. They’re becoming rambunctious.

7. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

From Schock and Awe to cock and jaw….?” Rotfl!

8. wozzle - 4 May 2007

Yo, LucidC, I understand you’re about to try ending your association with nicotine? I smoked pipes and cigars foe about thirty years – not as bad as cigarettes, I suspect, but still nicco – and my spouse and kinder put me on notice that they’d like to have me around longer than that would allow, so I took the big step recently. There’s a new marshal in town, a drug (gasp!) called chantix. It worked extremely well for me; I’ve been off for two weeks now and no cravings. Don’t know how you feel about chemistry, but just a tip.

And BTW, I agree w/those who think the cop was well outta bounds. I’ve known some good cops and can’t imagine them accounting themselves that way in that situation. Someone talked about training – many cops are former military, and I suspect that the military training takes over for some of these cops. Military training is far less forgiving than police academy.

9. acmn27 - 4 May 2007

Oops. Hi lucidculture; ‘last bastion of the damned’ sounds soooo exciting!

I’m in full agreement with ‘never give cops the benefit of a doubt. We’re paying them to increasingly up their level of abuse of power and authoritarianism? I can’t accept that philosophy. The power of the ‘law and order’ system is already enough stacked against those of us who aren’t part of it.

Bye for now. I’m being encircled by kitties who think they’re starving!

10. lucidculture - 4 May 2007

Wozzle – Congrats. I don’t begrudge anyone what works for them. I’ve actually quit many times in the past and quit at least twice a year. I don’t have a problem with the nicotene withdrawl at all – just a day or two of feeling alternately sleepy & slightly agitated. My problem is that a week or two out, I decide it’s OK for me to have a smoke – or I face a situation in which I break down and have one – it’s all psychological in my case.

Anyhow. I must simply steel my resolve. Cold turkey is definitely the best way for me… Not to mention, I only do ‘illegal’ drugs – not even any aspirin for me. 🙂


We’re paying them to increasingly up their level of abuse of power and authoritarianism?

And have been since the ’70’s. We have culturally accepted it under the pretense that ‘cops make us safe’ – that middle class ideal of the perfect house in the perfect housing development protected from the yucky messiness of the world…

11. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

A viper who loves kitties, acmn27, you BELONG here! Lol!

Lucid, very well said and you made me think more about the whole subject. I do try to be fair when a cop is accused because as I said in the last thread, I believe that there are those who want to do a good job. And it’s true that the job does attract authoritarian types. Funny you mentioned that experiment. We were talking about that the other day. I think there’s a new book out about it or something.

I wonder if that experiment really should be taken as gospel as to how people would always react in such circumstances. I really cannot imagine ever being capable of that kind of bullying. There are other examples of people, in real life, who have resisted joining in and even trying to stop those who do.

I mean look at dk! The vast majority of people who witness the bullying there do not participate in it. Many tried to stop it and didn’t care about being banned or troll-rated for doing so. I think there is a basic flaw in the character of people who are so easily dragged into that kind of mob behavior. Either they have such weak egos and need the ‘rewards’ of pats on the head, which kos gives to his most eager bullies, or they get a sick thrill out of it, or maybe both. But most people do not get involved so that gives me hope that that experiment really doesn’t reflect society as a whole.

12. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

Well, I just lost a post to spam – will have to wait for Marisacat to rescue it.

Lucid, it was response to your post – I have to run out for a few minutes so will try to reconstruct it when I get back.

Congrats, wozzle – I’m not ready to quit yet but have before. I wish they’d make nicotine-less cigarettes. I really only do it out of habit and (pleeease don’t laugh, because it’s true) I do not inhale!

acmn27 – as I said in my lost post, anyone who is a viper and loves kitties, BELONGS here!

13. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

Okay, I give up (lol, I guess not) now I’ve lost two posts to spam. Will try to reconstruct when I get back – running out for a few minutes!

14. missdevore - 4 May 2007

from mangolorean.com via raw story:

“Internet video shows 17-year-old Iraqi Kurd Dua Khalil Aswad being stoned by a group of men until she dies, all because she fell in love with a boy of a different religion

Baghdad, May 4: A 17-year-old girl has been stoned to death in Iraq because she loved a teenage boy of the wrong religion.

As a horrifying video of the stoning went out on the Internet, the British arm of Amnesty International condemned the death of Dua Khalil Aswad as an abhorrent murder and demanded that her killers be brought to justice.

Reports from Iraq said a local security force witnessed the incident, but did nothing to try to stop it. Now her boyfriend is in hiding in fear for his life. “

15. jam.fuse - 4 May 2007

shadewhile interviews “Nero”, a “contractor” in Afghanistan.

Combat Pay is ridiculous. The other night I was out drinking and ran into this guy who makes $15,000 every two weeks setting up IT systems. Some are making $400,000 a year working security or supervision.

I am making six figures doing a job that is one of the easiest I have ever had. I had a supervisor in Camp Taji who couldn’t read or spell or speak or really do anything productive besides breathe and smoke cigarettes. She labeled our Supply Manual with “Suppy Manula” and she was making six figures.


It does not take an insane person to want to go to the most fucked-up places on the planet because, to me, the most fucked-up places on the planet are in little neighborhoods, behind little fences, under little roofs. A little world that stretches as far as the little sedan will go. Working in the little office with the little lunch break and the little retirement fund as you lose a little more hair and a little more hope. The little dreams fade, the little bible makes little promises and then one day they might chisel some good words on the little tombstone. To me, that is hell on earth.

16. lucidculture - 4 May 2007

SB – I can sympathize. Dammit isn’t it Mcat’s job to attend to the viper’s nest!!! 😉

17. jam.fuse - 4 May 2007

Should I kiss the Viper’s fang
or herald loud the death of Man?

— Bowie

Might look good on the masthead

18. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 May 2007

oh, new voices! welcome!

I’m going to weigh in on this militarization of cops, and that’s exactly what that incident represents.

When I was a kid, police were called simply “police” or even “peace officers”. Now, I know that I was in lily-white areas of IL, but that nomenclature really does represent a different state of mind.

A “police” or “peace” officer indicates the idea that their job is to find peace, to find a middle ground btwn the rules and people acting out under stress or greed or anger or hate. There is built into that way of looking at things the idea of steps, that there is a PROCESS to be followed to assess a situation.

Then came Nixon’s war on drugs, war on protesters … and police forces became LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. They moved inexorably toward a military model, as TV shows like S.W.A.T. and others glorified paramilitary units within police departments. (Compare this with Andy Griffith and other shows that had neighborhood cops on the beat not long before that).

The focus changed … no more cop walking a beat, but a cold and inflexible man behind a windshield or reflective aviator sunglasses or a riot helmet. This idea of “policing” as “enforcement” has only grown, and whenever an incident happens where a citizen (and yes, even criminals are citizens, are human beings) is mistreated, beaten or killed, the first justification given by his/her superiors is “FIRST HE HAD TO SECURE THE SCENE.”

This POV is so ingrained in us now that people don’t realize how radically policing has changed in the last 30 – 40 years (and yes, I understand that the rules we live under now ALWAYS prevailed in minority areas … which only goes to my point).

“Secure the scene” is a MILITARY TACTIC, and that woman was treated the way a soldier would treat a potential combatant or occupied citizen at a checkpoint. When she disobeyed, out of stress and fear, his rules “securing his scene”, he escalated the situation.

This is a growing problem in this country, and when the police increasingly feel free to act this way even toward the race and economic strata that is at the top of the national food chain, that is an indication that our empowerment of law enforcement has gotten out of hand.

HE IS SUPPOSED TO SUPPORT CITIZENS, not just control or punish them. THAT IS HIS JOB, or at least it should be.

19. supervixen - 4 May 2007

Hey jam.fuse, that’s a great Bowie quote.
Yes MCat, do consider putting it on the masthead.

It would look great on t-shirts too. And lanyards.


SB, thanks for the link to the Lavin website. This line is funny:

“Moulitsas’ brash, probing and accessible writing”

That is euphemism-speak for “abrasive, simple-minded and dull”.


acmn27, do I know you from DKos? In any case, welcome! Yes, this is a wonderful place.

Your comment about the changes in the way police are trained is very interesting. I’d never heard of that. All the big-city cops I know are “old school”, that is, the youngest was trained in the ’80s and they are all retired now. So that tells you something. They were about street-smarts more than bullying and violence.

20. supervixen - 4 May 2007

A band name inspired by an article in the London Review of Books:

Edith Wharton’s Domestic Arrangements

21. wozzle - 4 May 2007

Lan Yards: Well, I know a Lan is a local area (network, if one has to be precise) and a yard is something one grows up playing in. So a lanyard is a local area one plays in?

Works for me – where do I sign up for a lan-yard?

22. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

Should I kiss the Viper’s fang
or herald loud the death of Man?

‘Dead to me, dead to me
Why won’t they stay dead to me
I bannished them to their vipers’ den
But they tempt me back again and again

Oh, they don’t know that I’m peeking in
To see what gossip they’re engaging in
About the big boyzzzz’ shenanegins
And I love it, I do much to my chagrin.

So I lurk and I burp and I laugh out loud,
I wallow in that orange cloud
I’m obsessed, I despair I tear out my hair
Why can I not stay away, it’s not fair?

I’m a man of my word, I say what I mean
If you’re on my list, there’ll be no reprieve
But those Vags and those vipers are weaving a spell
It’s a plot to defame me, they’re evil as hell.

I’ll lurk one more time, and tomorrow I’ll quit
I’ll go back to my own blog, get over this shit
I told them already, I’ll say it again.
They ARE dead to me, or at least they will be!

by the originator of the proclamation ‘they are dead to me’

Best to just give in and kiss the vipers’ fangs! Lol!

Lucid, Marisa needs FUNDS! Lol! Just like the Big Boyz!

23. Miss Devore - 4 May 2007

svix–good ones. and goddess I love Edith Wharton.

kos can give commencement speeches at rip-off tech school. “Rules Matter” the seminal piece of his oeuvre. and present the grads with lanyards.

maybe he’ll set up his own blogging school–like those costly places that train you to be a nursing assistant to work at minimum wage. (In all my years in the medical sphere, I never met a nursing assistant who took that sort of training. Because the prized qualification to be employed as a nursing assistant is Willingness to be a Nursing Assistant and do most of the medical dirty work for not much money)
Maybe the “fellows” will teach there. “Beginning blogging: Professor mcjoan teaches strategy of endlessly wanking about joe lieberman. Analyze the victories of ned lamont.”

“Blog Esthetics: Taught by markos himself. Orange=fast food=BBB. Special attention in using amberwavesofgrain as candidate photo backdrop”

“Koskraft: A fun class! LOL!!!! elise will show you how to make a g-string from a lanyard……while she’s hungover! This is a required class for feminists.”

24. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

Okay, now back to the real news. I am laughing so hard, I cannot believe this country. The Onion has become our reality: From Dana Millbank at the WaPo:

Dozens of Heads Were Bowed

Let us pray.

Let us pray that, on next year’s National Day of Prayer, there is better attendance at the “Bible Reading Marathon” on the West Front of the Capitol.

Organizers put out 600 folding chairs on the lawn — the spot where presidents are inaugurated — and set up a huge stage with powerful amplifiers. But at 9:30 a.m. yesterday, not one of the 600 seats was occupied. By 11 a.m., as a woman read a passage from Revelations, attendance had grown — to four people. Finally, at 1 p.m., 37 of the 600 seats were occupied, though many of those people were tourists eating lunch.

Where was everybody?

“This isn’t that kind of event,” explained Jeff Gannon, spokesman for the host, the International Bible Reading Association. Gannon, actually a pseudonym for James Guckert, had earned fame in 2005 representing a conservative Web site at White House briefings until it was revealed that he posted nude pictures of himself on the Web to offer his services as a $200-an-hour gay escort.

Let us pray for the power to understand how Gannon made his way from HotMilitaryStud.com to the International Bible Reading Association.

Well, Dana, you’re the reporter, wasn’t that your job? To find out how a Republican shill became a member of the WH Press Corps? And remained there for two years?

It’s a riot – Dobson and his wife were there – (see pic in link). Since when did Dobson approve of gays? It’s a miracle!

I thought this was a joke, but apparently it’s not.

25. Miss Devore - 4 May 2007

Sabrina–I take it that’s to the tune of “All of Me?”

Lucid–everytime I think of quitting smoking, my resolve is stolen.

26. missdevore - 4 May 2007

Sabrina–what sort of heads were they referring to?

27. missdevore - 4 May 2007

a headline from raw story:

“White House spokesman’s husband jailed for leashless dog”

oh come on, Perino’s pretty good-looking.

28. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

BREAKING NEWS: Paris Hilton Sentenced to 45 Days in Prison!

I hope she looks good in orange.

This is a required class for feminists.” Rotfl! So true, Miss D!

And there has to be a class on ‘Enforcement – how to earn your brown shirt’ –

29. missdevore - 4 May 2007

tip to TPM–rightwingers have thier own youtube now:


30. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

Sabrina–I take it that’s to the tune of “All of Me?”

No, Miss D, I couldn’t do it to that song as I don’t really know it. So, it’s just a plain old ‘one, two, three, four’ beat! Don’t know what you call that, maybe Lucid can help! He’s the resident musician.

Sabrina–what sort of heads were they referring to?

Heads? Lol, don’t really know where the heads are?


“White House spokesman’s husband jailed for leashless dog”
oh come on, Perino’s pretty good-looking.

Rotfl – stop it you’re keeping me from doing things I need to do!

31. lucidculture - 4 May 2007

it’s just a plain old ‘one, two, three, four’ beat! Don’t know what you call that, maybe Lucid can help!

In rock, with a kick hit on every beat, that’d be called ‘four on the floor’.

Can anyone tell me why the hell there is a Bible study going on anywhere on public land?

Miss D you never cease to amaze me. Though I must say, Elise must be pretty talented if she can make a G string out of a lanyard while hung over…

32. missdevore - 4 May 2007

Sabrina–do you need to vacuum your house for a viper invasion? We can make it BYOVCB.

33. jam.fuse - 4 May 2007

Hey I sing and play some guitar too

Just not always crowing about it

Maybe Sabrina’s rhyme would work as a rap song
kick off a funky beat anyone?

34. missdevore - 4 May 2007

hey. I’m taking elementary Arabic this summer. I’m sure the class roster goes right to the TSA.

35. colleen - 4 May 2007

do you need to vacuum your house for a viper invasion?

Not with a Roomba.

36. missdevore - 4 May 2007

{snif} ok, I’ll just go back to watching The Revenge of the Pink Panther.

37. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

Miss D, I didn’t want to mention the word ‘vacuum’ – but yes, there will have to be a lot of vacuuming before the big Vag invasion! Lol! Unless they want to sleep outside in ‘big tents’!

Lucid, In rock, with a kick hit on every beat, that’d be called ‘four on the floor’ Oh, that sounds good! I like it! 🙂 especially the ‘kick hit’ part!

Jam.fuse, a rap song, yes! That’s kind of how it sounded in my head after I read your quote about kissing the viper’s fang! I was thinking of a certain blogger who shall not be named! It was he who first gave instructions that we were to be ‘dead’! But I bet he lurks every once in a while! Lol!

I didn’t know you were a musician also, how fantastic! I love guitar –

Lucid, did you read that whole article? It’s scary, aside from the Jeff Gannon part, which I was sure had to be a joke. These people are crazy but they’re so involved in this government. I mean, how does Jimmy/Jeff read the bible and find himself condemned there, and participate in his own condemnation? Split personality maybe!

38. supervixen - 4 May 2007

This militarization-of-the-police discussion is reminding me of Magnum Force, the movie in which Dirty Harry tangles with a band of vigilante motorcycle cops including David Soul, Tim Matheson, and Robert Urich (and very good-looking bad guys they were, too). As I recall, the point was made that they were Vietnam vets – Special Forces, Navy SEALS or something similar.

Engrossing movie with much to recommend it.

39. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

A Roomba? Okay, isn’t that a robot, Colleen? Sounds good to me.

Jam.fuse, you get to start the funky beat –

Miss D, they just found this thread – you should have said ala Kos’ instructions ‘I am taking A**b*c! Now we are ALL in trouble!

Did you click on the link from ms xeno to the site that made fun of the ‘No bad words in diary titles’ rule, but you can say ‘F**king A**h*le! Lol, it was very good, It’s a few threads back, forget where now.

40. missdevore - 4 May 2007

hey, speaking of Nonparticle–he’s in the mlw top click thread here today, wherein MEsock is pitying kos. it’s bizarre-peeder starts talking about how he wouldn’t have banned aravia. LOA shows up to tersely call peeder an ass or a liar. and apparently they are trying to fashion themselves as “the banned”.

acmn27–there is complete freedom here to rename anyone–even a VAG.

sabrina–anything but the big tent!!!!

41. missdevore - 4 May 2007

who’s they??

I’m ready to roomba…

42. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

apparently they are trying to fashion themselves as “the banned”.

How dare they!! WE are the Banned! Oh no, another song is coming!

We are the Ba anned of the Blogosphere
And we’ll keep on fighting … ’til we’re drunk on beer.
We are the bah anned, we are the bah anned and
We are not losers
But we are the masters – of the universe!


sabrina–anything but the big tent!!!!

Okay, then send me the roomba!

43. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 May 2007
44. missdevore - 4 May 2007

madman-that’s hilarious.

sabrina–yes we began the begone! fuck those jilted-come-latelys.

45. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

That is very funny, Madman –

And Impeachment was put on the table at a dinner in honor of Nancy Pelosi last night. Activists managed to put place-cards at every table setting:

Impeachment back on the table

Nice cards too …


Paris Hilton is all over tv and the DC Madam interview revealed no new names. ABC must have caved. Brian Ross says there are no ‘newsworthy’ names on the list. So, the head of a Conservative think tank is not newsworthy? Military Generals? Looks like someone got to ABC! West-Coasters, don’t waste your time watching. They hyped this all week and there was nothing.


Meantime Bush is ordering Nancy around again … he’s warning Democrats not to introduce any abortion legislation! When Democrats finally take a stand against this bully, he will back down, as bullies always do. But why will they not do it?

46. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 May 2007

I love those placecards. Very cool.

of course, Nancy will pay no attention. Suffering thru Harold Ford Jr. on Maher … he makes me want to puke.

47. marisacat - 4 May 2007

hmm ABC hyped tht names would be forthcoming as late as this evening, literally 2 hours ago on the West coast.. The local ABC news affiliate here carried extended clips of her at her quite charming, looked to be turn of the century, house in Vallejo, an old street with gentle front gardens and lawns, not a new development. Clips iwth Brian Ross at her house and a voice over mentioning names to be named on 20/20.

LOL all you can do is laugh.

48. missdevore - 4 May 2007

Americans support second-term abortion!

49. missdevore - 4 May 2007

Marisacat! We left the place a mess while you were out. Please don’t think you have to uphold your rep for integrity by going out and hauling 2 tons of canned cat food yourself.

50. lucidculture - 4 May 2007

Yes SB – the religious assholes are everywhere. What scares me is the number of Moonies in government. I remember a few years back I came across a whole slew of articles on Moon’s relationship to the Bush family & an article where a journalist infiltrated “The House” – some Moon front dwelling in DC that housed a shitload of Republican Congressmen… frightening.

51. lucidculture - 4 May 2007

Yeah Miss D, I was wondering if the supermarket stopped delivering or something. Was starting to organize an airlift. 🙂

52. ms_xeno - 4 May 2007


But why will they not do it?…

If you give the lower orders control of their own reproductive organs, they’ll get into all kinds of mischief. Like democracy and stuff.

GODDAMNIT !! First THIS ONE wants freedom ! Then the WHOLE DAMN WORLD wants freedom !!! — Gil-Scott Heron

53. Kevin Lynch - 4 May 2007

All new voices are welcome, especially if they come with cat stories >^–^

54. Kevin Lynch - 4 May 2007

hmm, about 90% of my last post just disappeared

strange, that my anti-police brutality rant and bring the troops home speech got booted *sigh*


55. marisacat - 4 May 2007


sorry! it was the little arrow. It caused everything following it to drop.

it has somthing to do with accepting HTML for coding links.

56. missdevore - 4 May 2007

“It all started when my aunt was kidnapped by an unlicensed Armenian phrenologist..”

goddess, I love all those old pink panther movies.

Kevin-snap out of it! Or write a John Prine song about it. Or “I’ve got those VAGNABBIT blues….”

Have a pina colada.

And happy Cinco de Mayo!

57. bayprairie - 4 May 2007

i’m always late.

Merle Haggard, for christ’s sake.

“Look at the past 25 years — we went downhill, and if people don’t realize it, they don’t have their fucking eyes on,” says Haggard. “In 1960, when I came out of prison as an ex-convict, I had more freedom under parolee supervision than there’s available to an average citizen in America right now. I mean, there was nobody going to throw you down on the side of the road spread-eagled, and look up your butt for a fucking marijuana cigarette. God almighty, what have we done to each other?”

as far as the cop thing goes if a policeman is informed by a citizen of a potential life-threatening emergency occuring at a distant, but known, location the correct reponse of a peace officer will always be to first send aide to the life alledged to be threatened. isn’t that what the whole radio thing is about? how hard can it be to inform the dispatcher?

i won’t comment on brutality aspects of the event, as i haven’t read the story, except as a headline i blew by. nor have i seen the video (nor will i!), with that said this is your self-appointed, drive-by ethicist for the evening signing out, but leaving an anecdote behind.

i have an old friend who had a somewhat similar situation to this occur. same deal, traffic stop for speeding on the way to the hospital due to someone else’s emergency. after the cop got the story at the pullover, he had my friend follow him to the hospital behind his car, with emergency lights going.

58. moiv - 4 May 2007

lucid —

You might be remembering Jeff Sharlet’s Harper’s story, Jesus Plus Nothing. The Congressmen were mostly Republicans, but not all.

Ivanwald, which sits at the end of Twenty-fourth Street North in Arlington, Virginia, is known only to its residents and to the members and friends of the organization that sponsors it, a group of believers who refer to themselves as “the Family.”

The Family is, in its own words, an “invisible” association, though its membership has always consisted mostly of public men. Senators Don Nickles (R., Okla.), Charles Grassley (R., Iowa), Pete Domenici (R., N.Mex.), John Ensign (R., Nev.), James Inhofe (R., Okla.), Bill Nelson (D., Fla.), and Conrad Burns (R., Mont.) are referred to as “members,” as are Representatives Jim DeMint (R., S.C.), Frank Wolf (R., Va.), Joseph Pitts (R., Pa.), Zach Wamp (R., Tenn.), and Bart Stupak (D., Mich.)


The mansion is white and pillared and surrounded by magnolias, and by red trees that do not so much tower above it as whisper. The mansion is named for these trees; it is called The Cedars, and Family members speak of it as a person. “The Cedars has a heart for the poor,” they like to say. By “poor” they mean not the thousands of literal poor living barely a mile away but rather the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom: the senators, generals, and prime ministers who coast to the end of Twenty-fourth Street in Arlington in black limousines and town cars and hulking S.U.V.’s to meet one another, to meet Jesus, to pay homage to the god of The Cedars.

There they forge “relationships” beyond the din of vox populi (the Family’s leaders consider democracy a manifestation of ungodly pride) and “throw away religion” in favor of the truths of the Family. Declaring God’s covenant with the Jews broken, the group’s core members call themselves “the new chosen.”

59. lucidculture - 4 May 2007

Viper Nest
Where the damned go to Tango
VAGs unwind
With some wine and smoke

Mops a spill in the corner
While we toil away on our book.

[First stanza of something – sung to ‘Summertime’]

60. missdevore - 4 May 2007

I need an emergency craniotomy. Luscious Vagina is trying to make comedic (as in comedome) points on a diary about supporting rights:

“The Pro-Rights Party
by Lucius Vorenus
Fri May 04, 2007 at 07:28:33 PM PDT

It was another long day of traveling for me, which has become too much of a norm for me, someone who loves to travel. And since I travel a lot of the times at the last minute, booking flights either the day before or the day of, I am always “randomly” selected for the TSA Anal Probe, or what they call “Intensive Screening.”

They put you in this General Electric machine, which looks like it costs at least a million dollars, and whose sole purpose, as far as I can tell, is to shoot pressurized air at you in every direction, and then they swab with cloth everything you own, after they frisk you. It has become so commonplace for me that I feel I have been intimate with thousands of TSA employees across this land.”

He can barely suppress the reality of blow-up dolls within his “fiction.”

they dragged in pastor damning to do some cheerleading for yk2.

someone is doing testimony on the rec list on how dkos got him a job. (rumor is they cure cancer, too) and mcjoan is doing diary rescue tonight. I think they even had a fake GBCW diary. they couldn’t decide if they should pile on the person or if it was snark. and the ole Friday “Got a happy story?” dropped down the list like prozac thru the alimentary canal.

61. colleen - 4 May 2007

A Roomba? Okay, isn’t that a robot, Colleen? Sounds good to me.

Yes, a roomba is a robot one can program to vacumn the floors. We’re going to take up a collection to send one to Miss D for Xmas. (Although I would rather send her one of these because they are way cuter)
I’ll admit I would like one of each for myself but the Maine Coon (who is very large and decorative and dominant) would be terrified of the first and would eat the 2nd for lunch

62. lucidculture - 4 May 2007

Moiv – yes that is exactly the article I was thinking of. Thanks for posting the link. I’d forgotten where I came across it [like so many things – I tend to be a rather voracious reader online, but I never bookmark anything…]

63. lucidculture - 4 May 2007

I’d love to get a roomba Colleen I just think my alpha kitty [who also happens to be the biggest wimp in the world when it comes to noisy moving things] would never forgive me. I swear, this cat could kill me with one swipe, but turn on the vacuum – he’s leaping eight feet up to the ceiling of my bathroom [I live in an industrial space with 13 foot ceilings] and hiding there until at least 15 minutes after the vacuum is off.

64. missdevore - 4 May 2007

I don’t know how many teacup chihuahuas I’ve pulled out of vacuum cleaner bags…..oh thanks for the reminder–there’s an earring I have to find in the current bag.

65. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

Thanks for that link, Moiv – this is really bizarre.

Lucid, the Moon/Bush connection has been in the news, well, the independent news, this week. Moon’s tax returns, or one of his thousands of business’s tax returns, shows a huge donation to a Barbara Bush educational project. There is something very spooky about the Bush family and their circle of friends. DC has been turned into some kind of cult and it’s evil. I have read many strange stories about them, but took most of it with a grain of salt. But the Rev. Moon connection is real. So, maybe there is some truth to the rest of it also.

I read, eg, in old copies of the Washington Times, about a children’s sex ring that ended up with a connection to Bush Sr. (court records on this) and even in the Reagan WH. Only the Washington Times, the moonie paper, covered the whole strange story, published the court records etc. I’ll try to find the links when I have a chance, and you’ll be shocked. Only one Dem was involved, Barney Frank, because of the gay prostitute angle. And we did hear about that. But the rest were all Republicans. One went to jail, a top Repub. and there was lots of testimony from the children. One of them said she saw Bush Sr at one of the parties.

There was a mysterious suicide of one of the more colorful people in the saga and a plane crash (always plane crashes and suicides) in which important documentation was destroyed. A TV documentary was made but it was never aired. In the Times articles, many top Republicans were interviewed about it. Libby Dole, I remember. These are all very, very strange people.


Marisacat, I think the lawyers who were frantically calling ABC, prevailed … probably threatened lawsuits. She should slip the names to other people and she should be very, very careful or next we’ll hear she was ‘despondent over the charges and finally committed suicide’.

66. moiv - 4 May 2007

lucid —

I bookmark everything, then forget which folder I put it in.

All same-same.

67. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 May 2007

Merle’s come a long way from Okie From Muskogee … I like to think that all that time hanging out with Johnny Cash and Waylon Jennings and Kris Kristofferson and Willie Nelson had a good effect on him.

Especially Willie.

I’ve always admired that cadre b/c they seemed so much more open than the rest of the Nashville mob. If there is one thing my father and I shared, it was Johnny Cash, and the rest of them as I got older. When I was young and stupid, people used to ask me what kind of music I liked, and I said “everything but country and opera”, then I met wonderful people, and learned, and heard what my father heard through fresh ears … and other things through other people smarter and more travelled than myself.

Merle’s learned too, and bless him for it. I always found Merle’s acceptance of Poncho’s part, the part of the betrayer, the sellout … the traitor.

And More Willie, just because I can.

68. colleen - 4 May 2007

oh thanks for the reminder–

I’m pretty sure you reminded yourself that time. How did you like the House of Tiny Toes?

69. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 May 2007

oooo, didn’t finish the sentence … I always found Merle’s acceptance of Poncho’s part interesting … when you listen to his performance in the original, you can tell he FEELS the weight of Poncho’s betrayal.

70. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

Well, I lost another post to spam – it was about the link Moiv posted and some other bizzarre DC goings on I have read about. Yikes, we are ruled by very, very scary people!

Lucid, this was in my lost post, but the Bush/Moon connection was recently in the news because of a tax return by one of Moon’s businesses. It showed a huge donation to one of Barbara Bush’s educational projects, probably for Neilsie, as she calls her felonious son.

And since I travel a lot of the times at the last minute, booking flights either the day before or the day of, I am always “randomly” selected for the TSA Anal Probe, or what they call “Intensive Screening.” Luscious Vagina Via Miss D

Ewww, that is barf-inducing – the visuals are extremely disturbing even if it is fiction.

Miss D Kos’s FP ad yesterday where he assured everyone (advertisers mostly) that the site is growing, makes me think Yrly kos is not going so well.

Colleen, sounds like a good idea for Miss D. I look forward to many hilarious stories from chez Devore after the arrival of the Roomba!

71. missdevore - 4 May 2007

colleen–I could be totally blasphemous and say-I swear I saw the same headpiece on kos’ daughter today.

{LIGHTNING} ….cool, it corrected my vision.

72. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

Hey, Lucid, nice ‘Summertime’ poem …. we really need to get going on that book …. before someone else does it.

Madman, I never liked country either until I met this guy from Texas who turned me on to some great country music – glad he did, I was missing a lot. I love Johhny Cash too.

73. lucidculture - 4 May 2007

Moiv – funny thing about me. Because I have somewhat of a photographic memory, I never learned how to orgnaize myself through college & grad school – I didn’t have to. If I was writing a paper [even my Master’s Thesis], I could usually effectively sort through up to 20 books remembering what quotes I wanted to use & was able to find them because I could remember the page from the page layout.

Since I’ve moved from book to internet media I haven’t bothered to change my ways… It’s a little more difficult to remember thousands of web addresses.

74. moiv - 4 May 2007

SB —

“Bizarre” only scratches the surface with these people. Talk to Action has a Moon archive with lots more.

Here’s the Washington Times coverage on the child prostitution ring.

75. lucidculture - 4 May 2007

MitM – I used to eschew all things country as well. It wasn’t until I was in my 20’s that I got really into Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson & others [Willie by the way is one of the most underated guitarists of all time]. I think part of it was that so many of the musical traditions I did love [like Piedmont Blues and Bluegrass] are so fundamentally related to country that once I could see past the ‘country music’ name and really listen to it, I found I loved it.

Then again, I’ve been one known to find guilty pleasure in ‘Oops I Did it Again’, so it’s pretty hard to alienate me… though for the most part the last 6-7 years of mainstream music has successfully done so. Go record labels – if you can turn me off you’re definitely doing a piss poor job.

76. Revisionist - 4 May 2007

re Sabrina 65 —

hey just popped in and saw your comment a few up. i dont know how far that discussion has gone but just wanted to chime in. There is A LOT more to that if you start looking into it . Supposably thats what Hunter Thompson was lookng into when he “shot himself”.

I was trying to find a link but there is some woman who has been looking for her kid since the 80’s. Similar to Jeff Gannon. She was in the news again the past few months for something. The CT crowd suggests that there is a ring that abducts young boys and they end up basically being sex slaves. Gannon was supposed to have been one of these boys and involved in the Bush Sr thing.

77. lucidculture - 4 May 2007

I think I first came across the child prostute thing in an unauthorized biography of Bush published by a couple of Laruchites – which is why I pretty swiftly dismissed it. But hell, it wouldn’t surprise me. They after all, as very real family history has shown, Nazi’s.

78. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 May 2007

My brain works like yours, Lucid, w/ the same bad habits.

I actually really gave country a chance after hearing an interview w/ Koko Taylor … she was asked what she listened to, and she said “country”, including many of the artists I linked. Lyle Lovett’s Large Band helped open my mind a lot too (I was a huge blues fan at the time).

79. marisacat - 4 May 2007

Rigorous Intuition, Jeff Wells covers the DC child sex ring, several times. Also issues of child abduction that may or may not play into something similar.


You have to plow thru the archives on the right side bar.

80. moiv - 4 May 2007

Lots and lots of links on the hypothesis that Jeff Gannon could be the long-missing Johnny Gosch.

But probably not.

81. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

Moiv, thanks for the link to the child sex story.

Lucid, that part of the story, the Washington Times linked by Moiv, is true. On a rainy day off, it’s fascinating stuff to read and to find out what our top government officials are involved in sometimes. Most is on the record, via a trial that took place and there was a conviction.

I used to dismiss the Moon/Bush stuff also but it’s true. It just all sounds like it could not be.

Look at the other link Moiv posted, about the ‘Family’ and the names of those involved. All well-known. We have cult leaders in DC, it seems.

Revisionist, I followed the Jeff Gannon story and he was too old to have been that boy. But there were kidnapped children who were never found, and I know the mother you are talking about. You’re right about Hunter Thompson, he had talked a lot about (maybe written) some place where politicians all go, something Grove. Again, it sounds so unreal yet it’s not. Too bad he died, he probably knew more than he talked about.

82. ms_xeno - 4 May 2007

Hey, Vipes. Now working on draft 3,761 of the piece I promised Smith-Paine at SMBIVA.

Curse that wretched collective and Mcat, too, for leading me into temptation. I’m actually putting off the collage-coffee party until next week because I want to finish this up. 😮

If anyone wants to plug a particularly cogent piece (their own or another’s) regarding choice (one that ISN’T of the Pollitt-Marcotte VOTE DEM OR DIE variety), now’s the time to make with a link. I’d love it.


83. ms_xeno - 4 May 2007

Bohemian Grove, SB.

Did you ever hear from Smith, BTW ?

84. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 May 2007

Lost another post – moiv, Jeff Gannon is too old to be Johnny Gosch, airc. But the kidnapping of that little boy and others were never solved. I think Hunter Thompson was somehow inovolved in that story.

85. marisacat - 4 May 2007


the posts are there. I pulled two out of Spam, think both were yours…

86. moiv - 4 May 2007

ms-x —

If anyone wants to plug a particularly cogent piece (their own or another’s) regarding choice (one that ISN’T of the Pollitt-Marcotte VOTE DEM OR DIE variety), now’s the time to make with a link. I’d love it.M

You’re calling my name.

Willfully Blind

Trojan Donkey

The Moral Terms of Jim Wallis

Zero Degrees of Separation

What Do You Call A Woman Who Has an Abortion?

Brothers Under the Skin

Life and Death? Just Don’t Think About It

87. moiv - 4 May 2007

SB —

Wouldn’t be a bit surprised.

Mcat —

I posted story links for ms-xeno, prolly went into spam because there were so many of them.

88. ms_xeno - 4 May 2007

Bless your heart, moiv. I went digging but this blasted computer keeps hiding my own damn bookmarks from me. And the other computer freezes like a popsicle if I open more than three windows.

[blush] I’ll wait.

89. marisacat - 4 May 2007


I will look.

90. moiv - 4 May 2007

It was just some stuff I’ve done at TTA, some of it blasting the Dem collaborators with the religious right.

91. wu ming - 4 May 2007

wow, congrats on starting arabic, miss dee. from what i’ve heard, it’s pretty damn tough.

92. acmn27 - 4 May 2007


“A viper who loves kitties” – That’s me. I couldn’t live without them. All eight (and counting) of em! I do need to be filled in on where the “vipers” comes from. Not that it matters, as it wouldn’t change my nature anyway (insert wicked laugh here).


I laughed out loud when you asked me if you knew me from DKos. In a word – NO. Too much DP-apologia, and waaaay too much nasty sniping in the comment threads. Actually I’m what you might call a rookie at this.


PEACE officers! Yes, I remember when they were actually called that! Things have certainly changed.

Democracy Now had a good segment on the LAPD’s war-on-people Thursday. They interviewed Ernesto Arce of Pacifica Radio, and Gerardo Gomez, a homeless rights activist. Arce described the police as “relentless” and “merciless”. I have lived in SCal and it appears that the LAPD believes they have a reputation to protect. If so, they’re doing a bang-up job of it.

I’m off to check the rest of the thread.

93. Kevin Lynch - 5 May 2007

once again, you all find shocking information I’ve never seen before. It’s been awhile since I’ve been sickened this often

and I mean that in a good way. there’s no way you can ever have too much information. knowing what the kind of people you need to work against are capable of is invaluable. and they need to be thrown into the darkest of cells and spend the longest of times within them


94. Kevin Lynch - 5 May 2007

Happy Cinco de Mayo everyone! Cervezas all around 😉

95. acmn27 - 5 May 2007

On the child-sex ring story involving the Bohemian Grove, you can google Franklin cover-up + Lawrence E. King and find lots of information about it. The missing boy’s mother really believed Jeff Gannon was her son for a while.

96. lucidculture - 5 May 2007

A clink of my wine glass to you too Kev!

The funny thing about any stuff I randomly bring up… All comes prior to 2003, before me becoming a BBB addict – my lost years as an online being… Since I finally quit those behemoths, I’m now independently scouring the internet once again – no filter, just lookin’, reading & processing – like I was before the blahgue age.

97. acmn27 - 5 May 2007

Thanks to all for the warm welcome, and to marisacat for a most enjoyable place. My eight little ones and I are off to bed. I would say “off to sleep” if not for the fact that I’m an incurable insomniac, and must first do battle with the sheets.

Happy Cinco de Mayo!

98. bayprairie - 5 May 2007

hey VIPES, who can guess who john stossel is channeling?

john stossel, ABC’s 20/20.

After the 1997 shooting of 16 kids in Dunblane, England, the United Kingdom passed one of the strictest gun-control laws in the world, banning its citizens from owning almost all types of handguns. Britain seemed to get safer by the minute, as 162,000 newly-illegal firearms were forked over to British officials by law-abiding citizens.

But this didn’t decrease the amount of gun-related crime in the U.K. In fact, gun-related crime has nearly doubled in the U.K. since the ban was enacted.

Might stricter gun laws result in more gun crime? It seems counterintuitive but makes sense if we consider one simple fact: Criminals don’t obey the law. Strict gun laws, like the ban in Britain, probably only affect the actions of people who wouldn’t commit crimes in the first place.

England’s ban didn’t magically cause all British handguns to disappear. Officials estimate that more than 250,000 illegal weapons are still in circulation in the country. Without the fear of retaliation from victims who might be packing heat, criminals in possession of these weapons now have a much easier job, and the incidence of gun-related crime has risen. As the saying goes, “If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.”

the rate of shootings in england, and gun crime in general, must be sky high.

Here and Here

Number of deaths from firearms injury – United Kingdom, 1999 = 210

In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States – over 80 deaths every day. (Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)

Patients admitted to hospital in England as a result of gunshot injuries, 2000–01 = 102

In 2000, 75,685 people (27/100,000) suffered non-fatal firearm gunshot injuries. (SOURCE: Federal Bureau of Investigation. Uniform Crime Reports for the United States: Crime in the United States 2000: Uniform Crime Reports. Washington, D.C: U.S. Department of Justice; 2001.)

the population of england and wales in 2001 was 52,041,916. population of the united states in 2001, approx 277,803,000. ratio works out to 5.33X

99. bayprairie - 5 May 2007

more guns!

fewer people!

100. bayprairie - 5 May 2007

too many links, stuck in moderation! unstick me please! the comment above this will make more sense, i promise!

101. supervixen - 5 May 2007

But this didn’t decrease the amount of gun-related crime in the U.K. In fact, gun-related crime has nearly doubled in the U.K. since the ban was enacted.

The phrase “gun-related crime” has the whiff of bullshit about it. Too vague. Why not “crimes committed with handguns”? I suspect that if Stossel’s “statistics” are investigated, it will turn out that he’s counting all possessions of- and attempts to buy/sell – illegal handguns as “gun-related crimes”. Naturally that figure would increase after it became a crime to own these handguns.

102. missdevore - 5 May 2007

‘morning vipes. Derby pie? Tamales?

from San Jose Mercury News:

” WASHINGTON – Congress already has run out of space on a memorial created last year to honor all of the U.S. service members killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In a grim sign of the times, the “Honoring the Fallen” wall, set up by House Republican leaders in June, is almost full. The mounting death toll from Iraq has forced U.S. House staffers to study how to reconfigure the display in the lobby of the Rayburn House Office Building – the largest office building for members of Congress – to squeeze in more names.”

yeah. no one could have ever predicted.

103. Sabrina Ballerina - 5 May 2007

The funny thing about any stuff I randomly bring up… All comes prior to 2003, before me becoming a BBB addict – my lost years as an online being… Since I finally quit those behemoths, I’m now independently scouring the internet once again – no filter, just lookin’, reading & processing – like I was before the blahgue age. Lucid

Lucid, that’s exactly how I feel. It was so great finding all kinds of information, then talking about it and investigating it with other people. I learned so much. But since I found and got absorbed in Daily Kos, that ended. I didn’t really notice either. It just happened, incrementally until I realized that all that was discussed was THEM and politicians.

As Kevin says, it is important to know the people who are in power and what and who they are.

Bayprairie, every time they compare the violence in the US to Britain, it makes me laugh. There is just no comparison at all.

104. Sabrina Ballerina - 5 May 2007

Another post lost to spam – lol! Will wait for MC to see if it can be rescued.

Ms xeno, my mind went blank on Bohemian Grove. Thanks – and yes, I did hear from Mr. Smith – a very nice email asking for permission to post the poem on his site. Thank you for promoting it, it was just a fun thing to do that day after reading JJB’s post on Hillary blabbing about how the next time we have to bomb, Iran this time, it would be better to have the world understand why we’re doing it. It made me sick.

Kinder, gentler bombing! ALiberal, kumbaya approach to bombing where the whole world understands the killing and the dying and, hopefully, will nod its head in sad understanding. That’s the difference between Dems and Repubs. Dems smile and explain why they’re killing, Repubs just do it.

105. supervixen - 5 May 2007

Country music: it was a later-in-life discovery for me as well, can’t remember exactly how, but probably through the folk-music back door. In college one of my favorite albums was an old LP of Uncle Dave Macon playing the banjo. A few of the songs were marvelously eerie, in weird keys. Very evocative. And he rocked like hell.

There are some interesting male voices in country music, e.g., Johnny Cash of course, Kristofferson, Randy Travis.

106. jam.fuse - 5 May 2007

riff from a comedian (can’t remember who; paraphrasing)—

“I heard ‘guns don’t kill people, people kill people’.

That’s why I have no friends and lots of guns.”

Must confess I am pro-2nd amendment, after reading Among the Thugs by Bill Buford, a US American who was socially accepted by a ‘firm’ i.e., a thousands-strong organization of football (soccer) goons in England, during the eighties. A horrifying account; if an army of these homicidal creeps ever descended on my happy home, praise the lord and pass the motherluvin’ ammunition…

My drinking buddy, originally from London, tells similar horror stories of english psychos who affix razors in their boots (outside not in), who brutalize and torture for fun, not like the US where in general violence between men is either personal or for profit.

I understand there is also a global plague of men brutalizing women.

On that happy note, top o’ the morning to all, 10.25am EST

ps — Country artists I dig: Roy Acuff, Wanda Jackson, Hank Williams, Hank Williams III, George Jones, the Man in Black…

107. jam.fuse - 5 May 2007

That’s EDT, not EST, to be precise…

Q. What has three teeth and sixty legs?

A. The front row at a Willie Nelson concert.

Just kidding Willie fans — ol’ Willie is a stand up dude if there ever was one, from what I’ve heard.

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