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Thread Thread Thread: not much of a post.. ;) 9 June 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election.

  Circus performance, the Nerveless Socks.

It’s a circus performance, from a troup called the Nerveless Socks.  But, when searching for circus imagery a year or so ago and saw it, it looked like an election to me.

They are up there teetering, the nose growing ever longer.  And of course now, nothing new, we elect our Rocket’s Red Glare leader.  All is terror, all is war.

My tip for the day, the new line of cat food from Sheba is very much liked in this house.  Yes, on sale at Safeway this week… but if anyone has a cat who is bored bored bored out of its furry skull… give it a try.



1. Kevin Lynch - 9 June 2007

sorry Marissa, it just looks like a guy balancing on a chair to me. must be a gender difference type thing. my two cats enjoy their “indoor formula” food, plus it cuts down on the Persian’s hairballs. funny, but the “crabby gray tabby” will fight like a demon against any other male (there’s a semi-stray orange tabby who will come in to get away from bad weather). Mischief and Pretty Boy get along just fine. maybe it’s because they’re both neutered? mom and I often joke that we’d need a small tranq gun to get Orange Julius into the vet for shots and a snip job! he’s a fierce one

it doesn’t look like we’re going to get much choice, no matter who gets selected to be preziding next. righteous war and holy religion is the law of the world. pope o’ democracy has proclaimed it and noone will deny it’s infallibility. we need a Bloomberg or Gore to enter as independents. things need to be shaken to their very cores. PTB need to get very frightened before they’ll even notice the writing on the wall. so much corporate $$$ covering their eyes


2. marisacat - 9 June 2007

Gore will never enter as a Ind. Bloomberg would, imo.

As for the pic, it’s just a metaphore..

I had a little stray years ago (Elsie de Wolf, for the great decorator), when I would take her to the vet (she blew out of the carrier the first time and nearly hit the ceiling) they would call a technician from the back to get her out of the carrier or from the cages to be brought to me, he would wear big heavy utility gloves.


3. AlanSmithee - 9 June 2007

Gore’s tied to closely to the Washington establishment for an independent run. Bloomberg might, but to me it sounds, so far at least, like some much hot air. Fortunately, Ralph might run again when Hillary gets the dem nom. So at least there will be someone to vote for.

4. missdevore - 9 June 2007

catnip! abdt also speaks Swahili:

” Revolutuons are a moment in time (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 05:28:56 PM EST “

5. ms_xeno - 9 June 2007

TBH, I would not trust anyone who’d previously been an entrenched Democrat to run as an Indy and NOT throw it all to HillEdBama at the last minute. I would consider McKinney only because she was never treated as anything but the proverbial “bastard at the family reunion” by her esteemed colleagues. And she was booted to the curb long before she could belly up for all the perks and bootlicking that come from a long career on The Hill.

Even so, I would vote for her with that fear of a last-minute bailout.

As for the Greens, if they go with some tapioca-souled twit like Cobb again, they can bite me. Hell, I know Americans love weasels and connivers, but Cobb wasn’t even a SMART weasel or a CHARISMATIC conniver. What on Earth was the point ?

6. missdevore - 9 June 2007

hilariously ignorant diary at dk now:

“I Don’t Care About the Dead Contractors in Iraq”

I guess that person must support Blackwater suing the families.

7. colleen - 9 June 2007

Mr Jones would like me to convey his appreciation for the Sheba tip.

And wishes to recommend this catnip http://www.mtlioncatnip.com/. Particularly the buddage

8. marisacat - 9 June 2007

Baby had tuna and shrimp in aspic… yesterday – and now is trying the chicken and duck in sauce. Cans are small (2.8 oz) but really satisfying. In between LOL as a palate toxifyer she got Nine Lives turkey with cheese, a fave rave as well…

9. missdevore - 9 June 2007

I’m shocked you couldn’t find some Pheasant under glass for her.

That said, I just proposed to the dog that we sleep out on the porch tonight, as if we lived in the ME or the Rudolph Schindler beach house designed for Dr. Lovell. Sadly, reality bitch slaps imagination in the face again.

10. marisacat - 9 June 2007

oh I love sleeping porches, sun rooms, Florida rooms, sleeping on the roof, the balcony.. etc.

Just the best.

Did she look at you like you were a nut?

11. Kevin Lynch - 9 June 2007

Ah, well…

it’s all just a fantasy at this point. Gore wouldn’t do it, so who would? there has got to be a better choice than what we’re being given. how could we really incite a voter revolt? that’s what it’s going to take. and we need to do it without $7 gasoline or a financial meltdown. if it comes to that it’ll be riots in the streets. not good for anyone

this country needs an enema. I’ll be public enema number 1!


12. marisacat - 9 June 2007

LOL I feel pretty sure Sheba is planning quail and pheasant– and yes offered under a tiny can, a miniature of a glass dome… . Perhaps a terrine of wild boar. Crab in champagne sauce.

The cat needed a change and a little perk up tho – as she craters off into that good night…

13. ms_xeno - 9 June 2007

Hah. Here we’re just the opposite, Mcat. I buy the mega-huge cans of food because Walter will suck down anything from a can and cares not one whit if he eats the same thing three days in a row. Poor Callie is a nibbler, which means she’s lucky to get in about three bites of food before he shoves her out of the way and commandeers her dinner, too. Once his own is gone.

Walter should be in politics.

14. ms_xeno - 9 June 2007

Kevin, I can think of several DK stalwarts in desperate need of that public enema. Preferably one involving crushed ice.

15. Sabrina Ballerina - 9 June 2007

Lol, Walter should be in politics Walter is a star, ms x! I remember his photo! If I were a female cat I would have a serious crush on him!

Miss D, there was an ad on tv with a very fluffy white cat, very elegant, who sat on a red velvet cushion and was served food in a champaigne glass. Can’t remember what the food was though!

Marisacat, Baby is a very lucky cat – I am still thinking of replacing Mouse, who we found outside. She was not a beautiful cat having been outside for so long, but she had such a beautiful personality. I still miss her. They Guide Dog Ass. is looking for volunteers to take in puppies for a year to socialize them, and I’m thinking about it – maybe a kitten as well. The puppies are so adorable, it is tempting but then, having to give them up after a year might be hard.

Whenever I hear the ‘Cats’ song, ‘Memories’ I think of Mouse …. she must have had an interesting life before we found her – I saw the Broadway play and the Cat who sang the song was very scraggly, sort of like Mouse. I brushed her a lot, but it didn’t help much … didn’t matter though, everyone loved her anyway.

16. Sabrina Ballerina - 9 June 2007

Speaking of cats – I read catnip’s post on her blog yesterday, tried to comment but the commenting feature was not working. She had a really bad day, a lot of pain she said and a not very helpful doctor. I hope she is okay. I wish she had seen a good doctor, I’m worried about her.

I want to ask her also about the cancellation of the ‘Homeland Security’ passport requirements to cross the border. Lol! They’ve had to cancel that requirement. I guess people from Canada just said ‘FU’ who needs to go to such a country?’ That’s what my Canadian friends have decided. They used to travel here regularly, but haven’t been here now for two years and don’t plan on coming until ‘Bush and his cabal are behind bars’! We had great fun two summers ago, so I’m sad that they won’t be here again for a while. But I don’t blame them!

Same thing with my cousin and his friends, and new wife in Ireland, they were supposed to come here also, but have decided that the stupidity of the ‘security’ nonsense isn’t worth it! They go to other European countries instead where people are still free.

I wonder how much longer they can keep up this pretense that treating the entire world as if they were all terrorists will somehow make us safer. I think tourism is down, as is foreign student registrations. Coming here now is a risk to most people. We are a pretty frightening place to anyone who doesn’t have to be here!

Kevin, how can we incite voter revolt? I think only $10.00 gas will do it. Wish it were otherwise because I will not be driving nor will many others, if that happens, but it might be worth it if it stimulates people out of their apathy. I imagine the price of gas would go down pretty fast if the entire population rose up against them. So, I’m willing to put up with it for a while, if there is no other way.

17. missdevore - 9 June 2007

I must live by a major body of water or have a swimming pool. Am going into the 8th year without either, and I feel a bit cranky about it.

18. jam.fuse - 9 June 2007

Btw a twenty minute (minimum) jog in the park also does wonders for anxiety attacks and such, (vis-a-vis a couple threads back).

In the interest of transparency and the awful truth, (also referring back to threads of yore) I confess to shamefully ‘showing neck’ to one of the k.o.s. ‘heavies’ when I got slammed for intimating one of the fraud diaries were full of operatives, shortly after the election of ought four. I’m just not really into arguing with people, I tend to let ’em have their way if its so goddamn important to them to ‘be right’, etc. Also I’m pretty ignant about politricks, anyhoo. Although I did get said thread gestapo dude to write ‘well in that case RonKinSeattle and kos are trolls” which is arguably the case in some sense I suppose.

19. marisacat - 9 June 2007

LOL jam.fuse

sounds like you won that round… 😉

20. Miss Devore - 9 June 2007

well I set the yoga mat out in front of the open porch doors, grabbed a pillow and blanket. Not entirely dark, but Venus was apparent in the sky. A nice breeze.

But frankly: the smell of pigeon shit.

In a summer when I was twelve, I had insisted in wanting to sleep outside in the backyard (in the burbs) and finally got my way. About 2 AM I woke up and noticed by father, in his 7th & final year of dying had taken up guard on one of those plastic-webbed lawn chairs.

I felt just as silly tonight, when the dog, who cuddled up beside me for awhile, decided it was much better to sleep in the bed.

I’ll be joining him shortly.

21. wu ming - 9 June 2007

i just don’t see what bloomberg would add to the race. we’ve already got corporate millionares covered, several times over.

22. supervixen - 9 June 2007

Kevin – “Orange Julius”! LOL, what a great name for a cat.

All this talk about shrimp cat food is making me hungry. I love shrimp, even though they have such a strange name.

shrimp shrimp shrimp shrimp shrimp.

Jean Shrimpton.

Miss D:

I must live by a major body of water or have a swimming pool. Am going into the 8th year without either, and I feel a bit cranky about it.

I had a similar feeling when I lived in Minnesota, though it was about salt water. I loved the Mississippi, but there was something claustrophobic about living so far inland, away from the oceans. Now we’re about an hour and a half from the Atlantic. Ah, much better. Even though I haven’t actually BEEN to the beach since we moved, I know it’s there.

Having said that – have you tried a small indoor fountain? You can make one with a pump from the hardware store and some of your favorite rocks. It works wonders for “watery” people. It’s not only the sound of the trickling water, but the feeling of what moving water does to the air around you.

SB quotes Kevin: how can we incite voter revolt?

Oh shit, sorry, I forgot this was a political blog!! Well, at least I didn’t mention my big boobs, my sexy boots or my insane obsession with Armando.

23. ms_xeno - 9 June 2007

The biggest boobs in Elise G. Harding’s life are, sadly, not the ones attached to her frame but rather the ones that instruct her on her vacuous “reframing” exercises.

…Walter is a star, ms x! I remember his photo! If I were a female cat I would have a serious crush on him!…

Don’t encourage him, SB ! He’s vain and attention-hungry enough as it is.

I would love an indoor fountain, but all that would do is give Butterscotch the Evil a greater range of floor-damaging water splashing to engage in. She has outwitted every attempt to have a “splash ‘n push”-proof watering system. Including one bowl that was supposed to be heavy enough to stay stable while Mastiffs the size of ponies were drinking from it.


24. ms_xeno - 10 June 2007

I just had another brilliant inspiration. Brought on by a) euphoria produced by a really killer slice of ripe melon, b) a fabulous Bois Sec Ardoin cd and c) knawing on the giant comment thread at the Digby link Madman mentioned in the last thread.

Can we find a volunteer who’ll persuade the Sainted Nancy P that impeachment is a gift from God ?

25. Kevin Lynch - 10 June 2007

he’s usually just referred to as “Juli” by my mom and “Orangey Orangey Cat Man” by me. of all the cats around, he was the only one I got to name. Mischief was named by an old GF. Pretty Boy was named by my mom. Loni, bless her kitty spirit, was named by my sister. Miko and Beej, neighbor’s cats who roam the neighborhood, came prenamed. I’d have to charge up the digital camera to show you, but Orange Julius is a stunning male. creamy light orange above. cream white below. blue-green eyes that almost look white from some angles. and he only has stripes on his tail. he would show up when I’d feed the neighborhood cats but would run if you got too close. I actually sang lullabies to him for 20 minutes one day, and he’s trusted me and mom ever since. true story, but unusual…

wish there were some way to avoid the doom involved with economic collapse and food riots to get the electorate to wake the hell up, but everyone seems to have made up their minds already


26. marisacat - 10 June 2007

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/08/AR2007060802260.html Elizabeth Drew has a counter to the Nixon nostalgia (something Dkos has perpetuated as well).

PS Fixed the link (sorry!) no matter what I did it would not accept HTML tags….

Listening to Colin Powell ONCE AGAIN bullshit his way thru this fucked war. NOW they worry for their place in history. Horrible man. May they all rot in hell. Pigs of war.

27. wozzle - 10 June 2007

Mcat, linkie to Drew’s article here.

28. wozzle - 10 June 2007

That one doesn’t work, either. Bad link day.

29. marisacat - 10 June 2007

We are getting MTP early here due to the French Open… Colin is just unraveling. We are still “liberators”.

Many more of these wars to come, pretty easy to see that one coming…

We just did not exercise “our legal responsiblity” as the “occupying authority”, which we were, as well as “liberators”.

Still justifies the war. Saddam would have rebuilt his stockpiles. At the start he even trotted out the heinous “pottery barn” scheisse.

Hope somewhere there is at least one “liberal hawk” that gags listening.

30. marisacat - 10 June 2007

Ricks has a post occupation occupying force scenario up, page 01 at the Wapo.

Talk about a sick war riddle.

31. NYCee - 10 June 2007

wu ming – Bloomberg isnt afraid of the gun lobby, that is one thing that distinguishes him, since you asked. He has been on something of a mission, rallying other mayors, going to the hill to do battle…

He is also on a big NYCgreening push.

Not that Im advocating for him, just contributing some info.

Now if only he would advocate as strongly for affordable housing and protections for small businesses. Not much on that front.

The gun control issue comes to mind because it really is astounding how many folks in this country prefer a piece to peace, yet the Dems cant seem to muster up the courage to make the case against easy access, lack of accountability in trafficking, ownership, etc.

Americans love to pack a PIECE more than practice peace, unfortunately. I was watching Court TV recently and they have a news break every hour that is simply jawdropping re daily gun violence. Far too many Americans are all too willing to pull out their PIECEs to solve their ‘problems. Disgruntled workers, disgruntled bus passengers (you looked at me wrong – BANG!), former main squeeze gets a trigger squeeze, etc and so on.

Saw an item recently where Brady group is handing out leaflets to incoming Florida tourists telling them of the latest nutwhackery passed in that state. Boils down to: You seem scary to me, I shoot. And the law allows it. Dovetails nicely with our preventive war tendency. So the pamphlet advises them to walk on eggshells during their visit. Treat the locals like mental patients, like the junkyard dog, in so many words. Because they have a license to KILL, literally. Without just cause.

32. missdevore - 10 June 2007

I took a late afternoon nap yesterday and couldn’t fall asleep last night. trying to decide if should give sleep a try or if I should start drinking coffee.

33. NYCee - 10 June 2007

Well, I am off in a few minutes to meet up with a friend and head out to The HILL, for the End the Occupation protest.

Take care and take action, all!

34. NYCee - 10 June 2007

Way to go, Cspan!

The prime time for the rally and then march is being covered on Cspan as follows:

02:02 PM EDT
1:43 (est.)
Billy Graham Library Dedication
Billy Graham Evangelistic Assn.
Jimmy Carter , United States
Billy Graham

03:47 PM EDT
1:45 (est.)
Richardson Campaign Announcement
Richardson Presidential Campaign
Bill Richardson , D, New Mexico
Barbara Richardson

05:32 PM EDT
0:29 (est.)
Six-Party Talks on North Korea
C-SPAN, Newsmakers
David Sanger , New York Times
Christopher R. Hill , Department of State

06:04 PM EDT
1:22 (est.)
Video Magazine
Road to the White House

Oh well, I guess it doesnt matter. Would be rather redundant, as I am sure the End the Occupation protest will be covered abundantly on all the networks, cable stations… Uh huh.

35. marisacat - 10 June 2007

From the Ricks piece. Colby said of Vietnam we don’t do empire well. Be nice if we just hung it the fuck up. And spared the world.

Officials now dismiss the 2004-06 years — when Gen. George W. Casey Jr. was in command — as a fruitless “rush to transition,” as one senior defense official here put it.

“The idea was, ‘As they stand up, we’ll stand down,’ ” he said. That phrase has been all but banished from the Green Zone, as has the notion of measuring U.S. progress in Iraq by the number of Iraqi troops trained or by changes in U.S. casualty counts.

“We had previously ‘transitioned’ ourselves into irrelevance, and the whole thing was going to hell in a handbasket,” a senior official commented in an e-mail.

Top military officials even say that Iraq’s elections in December 2005 only deepened sectarian divides and contributed to the outbreak of a low-grade civil war in Baghdad last year. “We wanted an election in the worst way, and we got one in the worst way,” one U.S. general here said.

36. marisacat - 10 June 2007

Big Tent Democrat wears an enormous cartoon dialogue bubble as well as a big cartoon light bulb over his head.

What utter bullshit.

It really does bring into question whether a progressive Netroots that wants to Crash the Gates truly exists.

It was always my impression that primaries were always central to the battle of ideas that we want waged in the Democratic Party.

If the Netroots want to speak for that idea, if it wants to speak for Crashing the Gates, it simply can not EVER be against primaries.

I would have thought this obvious. Apparently it is not. Apparently, a topdown progressive grassroots movement, talk about an oxymoron, is what is envisioned by some. that some version of a “people powered” movement all right. NOT. Well, include me out of that one.

Oh honeee! There, there. You’ll feel better soon.

37. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007
38. Sabrina Ballerina - 10 June 2007

NYCee, good for you, I wonder will the media cover that protest? About time Americans got to hear the other side of that story.

SV, I love those indoor water fountains – I like the garden ones also. Great idea for Miss D until she can get closer to some water!

Marisacat, I don’t think they let BTD in on the real plans for the netroots. Better to use him until he was not needed anymore. Too bad he didn’t listen to those who did see through the scam.

Lol, as if this were news to anyone with half a brain:

Military envisions longer stay in Iraq

Such a long-term presence would have four major components. The centerpiece would be a reinforced mechanized infantry division of around 20,000 soldiers assigned to guarantee the security of the Iraqi government and to assist Iraqi forces or their U.S. advisers if they get into fights they can’t handle.

Second, a training and advisory force of close to 10,000 troops would work with Iraqi military and police units. “I think it would be very helpful to have a force here for a period of time to continue to help the Iraqis train and continue to build their capabilities,” Odierno said.

In addition, officials envision a small but significant Special Operations unit focused on fighting the Sunni insurgent group al-Qaida in Iraq. “I think you’ll retain a very robust counterterror capability in this country for a long, long time,” a Pentagon official in Iraq said.

Lol, why don’t they just tell the truth. They’re going to stay to protect their oil interests there. And why no mention of the enormous Embassy and military bases?

They’re going to start pulling out (drawing down) in the middle of next year, the article says. Right before the election! By Spring of next year, Repubs will start talking about ‘getting out of Iraq’ and when the plan starts going into effect, Repub Presidential candidates will claim it was their idea. No doubt a pre-prepared bill will be introduced by Repubs – ‘a more intelligent bill than the Dems’, thinking of the troops, withdrawing safely over time, etc. etc.

Except they won’t be leaving … and Dems have facilitated this scheme to let Republicans take credit for any semblance of a with-drawal.

Lol, if I were a Republican, that’s what I would do. They most likely have calculated that by then, the Iraqi government will have handed over its oil. Headlines will claim ‘Republicans introduce Bill to begin withdrawal of troops from Iraq’. ‘Bush signs Republican Bill. Troops to begin arriving home in July’.

They’ll probably start withdrawing a few thousand troops starting in the summer for show. ‘3000 troops going home, Iraq War scales down’. Leading up the election we’ll probably see lots of troops arriving home to big celebrations and Repub candidates calling the war a ‘victory’ etc etc. On MTP, Repubs will claim that ‘the surge was very successful’ and that ‘Dems did not understand the danger of withdrawing too early’.

Too funny that the netroots thought that Republicans were finished. I may be wrong, but that’s how it looks to me. Repubs get the credit for ending the war, (even though it will not end) and Dems look idiots for being unable to do so.

39. ms_xeno - 10 June 2007

[snerk] You go, BTD !! Keep ’em all trying the same old tired shit, and joyously stomping on the same old outsiders. Y’know, the ones that have the potential to actually do something, as opposed to the would-be Prince Lamont.

That fucking piece of shit book should have been called “Cashing In The Gates.” That’s all you and your friends really care about. Squeal and bury that snout deeper in the trough like a good little hog, Kozzie !! Bare those rotted teeth at anyone who threatens to take your meal ticket away !! Yeah, that’s democracy in action, all right !!!

40. marisacat - 10 June 2007


Armando is or was a corporate atty (I have no idea what he does now). I think part of tactical discussions with clients was a given of shafting the population.

If Kos did not have those discussions with Armando, I feel certain that Krempasky (RedState, Krempasky’s back ground shaped by direct lines from Viguerie and Blackwell) openly discussed such hard realities of both the left and right nutroots.

Krempasky is by far the smarter operative by comparison to the bumbler Kos.

Kos personal reality is that he is a prideful little boaster. I don’t think he could hide the reality.

41. marisacat - 10 June 2007

Abortion diary takes on “safe legal rare”

42. Sabrina Ballerina - 10 June 2007

Marisacat, I’m not familiar with Krempasky. Will look him up though.

Btw, regarding the WaPo story on withdrawal of the troops, they say that a ‘small force of about 10,000’ will remain. What they don’t mention is the huge army of mercenaries which supposedly is almost as big as the US Military presence there right now. Any bill that does not include that is just a cover-up, imo. None of those introduced so far has said a word about with-drawing them.

43. ms_xeno - 10 June 2007

On the front page of Pandagon, you will find nothing this morning about Edwards latest weaselry regarding queers. I masochistically felt compelled to have a look after Scruggs brought said weaselry to my attention.

Chris Clarke, who I like a lot, is pissed at Alexander Cockburn for poo-poohing global warming. Which is all well and good under normal circumstances. Except that countless lefties of Cockburn’s own stripe, including a few in his own rag, have been arguing against his attitude for at least a month now. It’s not as though the guy Clarke links to has been the first all this time to tell Cockburn that he’s being a dumbass. But the now the primary prism through which the average resident of Marcotte’s blog will view lefties of Cockburn’s stripe is as comical, freakish neo-Luddite wannabees who don’t grok global warming. Tee hee !! I bet Nader doesn’t believe in global warming, either, and that Camejo wears a loincloth made of fur and howls at the moon !! Tee hee !!

My head hurts.

44. marisacat - 10 June 2007

Sabrina… google garance+krempasky+viguerie — you should get an article she did for Am Prospect in about 2005.

Very revealing and detailed on Krempasky — and the republican winger ratlines. What I think she (Garance) was trying to state was, same on the left, tho of course different in ways.. I have used the article a few times over the years as it is informative.

Armando and mcjoan have boastef of their friendship iwth the Red Boyz, as I call them.

These people (the Armandos and mcjoans) are not smart but neither are they naive. Also they are greedy, imo.

45. marisacat - 10 June 2007

Here is the link to the Scruggs post ms xeno references.

scruggs links to the NYT transcript of the Democratic slobber for Wallis of a week or so ago.

Someone really needs to ask Edwards about Richard Land of the Southern Baptists, I’d be interested to hear what he would say.

And he gets off easy on his squirm over gays.

46. ms_xeno - 10 June 2007

Thanks, Mcat. Shouldn’t post half-asleep.

Honestly, what does that gleaming turd NOT squirm about ? Other than our sacred right to bomb anyone we want so long as we do the UN charade first ? Or the right of every traditional base in the DP to keep their mouths closed and their wallets wide, wide open ?

But, “we can talk to him” as the little cheerleaders at Pandagon say. Yeah, well, I can make an appointment at the local bank and get half an hour to ask for an 800K loan, too. This in no way changes the fact that they don’t want me to have it, they don’t intend to give it to me, and the second my pleas become tiresome to them, they can instruct Security to help my face keep a subsequent appointment with the sidewalk outside.

Save me from would-be starfuckers masquerading as “feminists.”

47. marisacat - 10 June 2007

Madman popped me this, I have been absolutely, rigidly agaisnt Webb from minute one.

Downloaded the Sharlet pdf. Takes a while but well worth it.

People really need to look at what the Democratic party wedged into office this past cycle. Both Houses.

And be prepared for decades of war.

48. Sabrina Ballerina - 10 June 2007

Thanks, Marisacat, I will google. What I remember reading about the beginning of dk is that kos was basically starving, living in a tiny basement apartment etc. Jerome also, his excuse for the trouble he got into was that he needed money, airc. I cannot understand how anyone can trust someone who is tainted by scandal, especially involving online deception, the way kos et al trust him. If someone is willing to deceive others as he did, I know I don’t trust a word he has to say, always wondering ‘who’s he working for now’!

Otoh, it does make him a perfect candidate to deceive people regarding the goals of the netroots. Who else would you go to if you were setting up an operation that was intended to deceive voters? But to me, anyone who accepts him as part of, and worse, in any leading role, such as Bowers and Stoller have questionable ethics themselves.

Watching their musings on ‘strategy’ I can see how they rationalize everything, so no doubt they’ve rationalized his deceptions since to do so benefits them. You can judge people by the company they keep … apparently the netroots has no problem with a little deception. I hope one day someone like Greg Palast does an investigation into all of this. They really should not have treated him so badly. If anyone can dig up the facts, he could and I’m sure he’s not too happy with the ‘netroots’ right now.

49. marisacat - 10 June 2007

well Edwards will get off this go round with a less than acute examination. He is seen as a distant third (tho Iowa showing can change this… I jsut would nto discount the machines backing Hillary and Obama to stay clean in Iowa) and now based on the most recent poll bested by Gore who is not even in the race.

Think I closed the window but Bai has a rather sloppy NYT mag look at Edwards today. he/Bai smudges a lot. You do pick up on the ever flattening aspect (in the sense of bouyancy) of the run. Which is evident watching Edwards, esp if he is without EE.


PS —- Oops no I still had the NYT open. it is the one page version

50. AlanSmithee - 10 June 2007

5. ms_xeno – 9 June 2007

I defense of my party, I’d like to point out that even after the CA convention was hijacked by the Cobb/Benjamin delegates, those Greens who bothered to turn out voted 4 – 1 for Ralph despite the constant, unending howls of derision from the ABB crowd.

51. marisacat - 10 June 2007

Projections after the first round of voting in French general election suggest President Nicolas Sarkozy’s party is heading for a landslide.

For more details: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

52. marisacat - 10 June 2007

well I see Cockburn’s piece on the greenhouse “dogma” is up at The Nation. It will get picked apart.

53. Revisionist - 10 June 2007

I am pissed at yahoo — AGAIN. I had a great system to do searches I have used for over a decade. I always did an image search rather than a web search. Its hard to explain without seeing it in action but I would often find better info and more interesting sites by following the image links rather than relying on the web hits. Anyway, now that they bought flicker the first few pages are always someones freaking photo stream since they are pimping that. For instance today’s word was Mandarin. Some guy has 200 freaking pix of ducks on a pond.

54. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

Edwards will end up w/ the same treatment Dean got in Iowa, mark my words.

We’re stuck w/ a battle btwn the NY Dem machine (remnants of Moynihan’s) vs. the Daley machine, with all of the also-rans fighting for Admin jobs for their staffers and perhaps a cabinet position or two. Of course, they’re so clueless the Reps will kill Hillary if she wins the nom. Obama is gonna run up against how fucking racist this country is (with left/labor/women/minorities NOT rallying to his cause b/c he keeps running to the right) if HE wins the nom, and neither of them has the spine or drive to fight the four years of character assassination that will follow … it’ll make Bill’s years look like a child’s tea party. Of the two of them, I think the Daley machine would fight better, but I certainly wouldn’t expect anything good from them (the NYers had a hard time taking on fucking Pataki, fer xrist’s sake, and Bloomberg didn’t have to worry about them at all).

Stay home, don’t vote for them … it’ll get you nowhere, and if they win it’ll be worse than four more years of the Republicans, as they’ll move further to the right. Better for lefties to stay home, refuse to vote for them, let alone any more Webbs or Caseys.

Hunker down locally … at this point the best I’m willing to hope for is a Libertarian Republican rather than the corporate zealot variety … though the degrees of damage are going to be horrible either way.

55. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

ooops, meant the religious zealot variety … “libertarian” Republicans … hell, almost ALL of this country’s politicians, are corporate zealots, both parties.

56. Miss Devore - 10 June 2007

Edwards was disgraceful on his answers regarding the compatibility of Biblical creation with evolution. I think it is entirely possible to speak on the subject in an inspiring, rather than pandering way. I always loved my Eric Fromm:

” “Radical humanism considers the goal of humankind to be that of complete independence, and this implies penetrating through fictions and illusions to a full awareness of reality. It implies, furthermore, a skeptical attitude toward the use of force, precisely because during recorded history it has been, and still is, force–creating fear–which has made humans ready to take fiction for reality, illusions for truth. It was force which made people incapable of independence and hence warped their reason and emotions.

“If it is possible to discover the seeds of radical humanism in the older sources of the Bible, it is only because we know the radical humanism of Amos, of Socrates, of the Renaissance humanists, of the Enlightenment, of Kant, herder, Lessing, Goethe, Marx, Schweitzer. The seed becomes clearly recognizable only if one knows the flower; the earlier phase is often to be interpreted by the later phase, even though, genetically, the earlier phase precedes the later.”

57. marisacat - 10 June 2007

Bloomberg has been fundraising and donating and bundling to races for years, both sides of the aisle. Quite a few Democrats will not utter a peep against him.

58. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

Holy Joe wants more war.

not that there is anything new in that.

59. Revisionist - 10 June 2007


I think we need another approach. I think we need to find a way to rally the country to vote in the primaries and not let 2% of the country decide our future.

The machines are churning along in NH and Iowa but aside from SC, I think with a good info campaign the primaries could be upset in the other 47 states.

To me it doesnt matter which candidate as long as its not who the “parties” want (ie Clinton)

I was talking witha friend the other nite and we really dont wan to return to the 90’s. It was great time but it also had many things we didnt like that we think clinton would bring back. All the PC Nannyness. Not nanny laws per se but just the attititude that gripped the workplace, the media and schools. Its part of the reason we cant have real discourse now and the Dems are such pansies. The Bushies just tapped into that and morphed it when they started their patriotic push. In many ways I dont think we made progress on gays, gender and race back then. It was just people learned to keep their opinions to themsleves or they would have to go to sensitivity training.

OMFG… they are deliverying yellow pages to my door. Its the real one and not the competitor I got last week. Dont these people know its the 21st century. Now Ive got to go to the park and drop off 50lbs of paper at the recycling station.

60. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

There is nothing remotely “humanist” in a so-called “holy” book that starts with the premise that human beings are poisoned by “original sin”. The Torah, the New Testament, the Qur’an … ALL three are built on the idea that human beings are filthy, dirty, evil creatures at heart, who’re only redeemable through some intecession of grace, ritual, suplication, self-denial …

… that other smart people, later, may have faced the horror in those pages and tried to cherry pick the few good things to make up for it doesn’t change the fact that those scriptures aren’t safe for people or other living things. They are a blight, ESPECIALLY the Xtian Bible.

61. marisacat - 10 June 2007

LOL I found Edwards horrifying at the Wallis pig roast.

Perfectly disgusting.

62. Miss Devore - 10 June 2007

Mitm–I’ll assume you’ve not read Fromm.

63. liberalcatnip - 10 June 2007

Hi guys,
Thanks for the well wishes. I’m still in too much pain to do much of anything and will give my dr a call tomorrow. (At least he has a clue, thankfully).

I’ve been watching movies. Caught Bury My Heart in Wounded Knee with Aidan Quinn last nite. Heart wrenching, of course, and great performances. I’ve been a fan of Gordon Tootoosis for a long time (Red Cloud).

Miss D, you gave me my first lol moment of the day with your comment about Armando knowing Swahili too. 🙂 Thanks for that.

I’m off to watch The Brothers Grimm now. Good thing my landlord has movie channels here so I can just crash in bed and escape for a while. I’m just not up to doing much else. Just very discouraged.

Thanks for helping me to catch up with what’s going in the so-called real world (and the latest in Feline News ™ too). “Orange Julius”. 🙂

64. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

I don’t think there is a way to do that Revisionist … the parties have baked in so many institutional controls … the system has to be broken and rebuilt, IMHO.

65. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

I read a little Fromm back in school, as a budding atheist, I admit. Perhaps I should have given him more of a chance, but what I read smacked of more apologism for an anti-human tradition, kinda a secular-jewish update of the Christian apologists like Thomas More.

I admit, I didn’t read more than excerpts, so if I’m wrong to lump him in w/ the rest, I’m sorry. I still think those traditions are irredeemably poisoned.

66. missdevore - 10 June 2007

ok-if Fromm is poisoned, who’s pure?

67. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

Quinn’s portrayal of Senator Dawes sums up very vividly how horribly nasty even the “best” white Americans often were in their racist paternalism. I enjoyed his and August Schellenberg’s performances the most … the massacre at the end was heart-rending.

68. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

I’m not saying Fromm is poisoned, I’m saying the various scriptures are poisoned, and I’m admittedly dismissive of anyone who tries to grow a humanism from that poison seed.

I don’t believe in purity. No such thing … and I understand that Fromm is respected by a lot of people. I’m just sick of the repeated attempts to create something good out of a religious tradition that is the source of so much human misery.

I’ll leave it there … I’m grumpy today and didn’t mean to pick a fight.

69. ms_xeno - 10 June 2007

Can’t agree about the original Torah touting original sin. It has plenty of other problems, but OS was added later by Gentiles.

Sin is not handed down from adults to newborns in traditional Jewish teaching. Everyone starts out with a clean slate, even if they’re not in Paradise.

To me, the most damaging aspect in that part of Genesis is the simple notion that the pursuit of knowledge is in and of itself a force for contamination and estrangement from nature and one’s fellow humans. Well, that and the fact that it’s always Woman’s fault when things go to shit. A number of the world’s Creation myths seem to be in agreement on that score.

70. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

I take, in my reading of both, as being essentially the same thing, just the Xtians call the pursuit of knowledge “sin”. While I agree that the Xtian perversion of the Old Testament makes it a more dangerous system of belief, the idea that people can only be good an happy if they live in a state of ignorant bliss under the control of a benevolent Daddy disgusts me. Such creatures wouldn’t be sentient, or free, or really capable of joy. Empty, cold, by definition inhuman, IMO.

71. missdevore - 10 June 2007

we get our values and ethical codes from somewhere. for those of us brought up with a particular religious training, we would be dishonest to deny that it was a source of our morals. by the same token, we were also given a gauge to judge the hypocrisy of those institutions. and reasons, for many of us to distance ourselves from those institutions.

72. marisacat - 10 June 2007

well honestly I would not recommend the Baltimore Catechism to anyone for morals. Obedience maybe. Nor are parochial schools and parishes models of decency.

They do preach worship and subjugation.

I was spared that level of Catholicism and did not go home from the convent to a home of “believers”.

I did go to a party once tho at the home of a little classmate. On the mother’s vanity (we put our coats in the parents; bedroom) there was a 3 fot tall statue of the BVM that lit up.

I was spared that.

The amazing thing to me is that Catholics, far too many, still fork over their children. By now to known ritual sexual sacrifice. Despite all that has come out, despite how the church treats the laity and the ‘still faithful” who try to make sense of it all.

73. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

sure, people do that … I just think it’s not a good way for creatures capable of reason and an aesthetic sense to make ethical decision or build systems of values, especially from religious training as odious as the Abrahamic faiths. If I’m gonna have to find a religious-basis, give me an animist faith anyday … but I’m not wanting any of them.

Sorry, as I said, grumpy today.

74. ms_xeno - 10 June 2007

MissD, my stock phrase in these endless go-rounds about whether or not there can be ethical non-believers is that my religious upbringing was an armature. It’s all very well for the parents to have fed me a moral code using God, since it was easy for me to understand, and I didn’t have the life experience to understand the practical reasons for not treating others like shit. But now I have the experience and the understanding. The moral spine, as it were. I am an atheist because I figured in adulthood a person should not need the armature anymore.

75. missdevore - 10 June 2007

the bible is literature. same as Salinger. and the fat lady with cancer is jesus, etc.

76. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

of course, as soon as I typed “animist” I remembered the Japanese and Shinto, so I’ll shut up about that.

77. bayprairie - 10 June 2007

On the mother’s vanity (we put our coats in the parents; bedroom) there was a 3 fot tall statue of the BVM that lit up.

We used to have a little six inch BVM mounted on the tiny dash of our boat cart. Didn’t light up though. A lit one would have been cool and functional.

78. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

I got my moral armature from comic books, PK Dick, Harlan Ellison, Michael Moorcock, Isaac Asimov, Ray Bradbury, Vonnegut, Heinlein, Clarke … a lot of it serving first to steralize out of my brain the nonsense put in there by the 12 volume picture bible my grandma bought me when I was a kid. I think my sources are better and based more on reality.

79. marisacat - 10 June 2007

well people don’t swear oaths on Salinger.

Intellectuals, those so inclined, treat the tomes as literature but billions treat them as the Word of Some God Some Where. To that God they subjugate their lives and desires…

And, more often than not, feel special and privileged to be inducted to such greatness.

And then to lecture the rest of us.

It is not working.

80. jam.fuse - 10 June 2007

It ain’t what you do its the way that you do it

is my take on religion/spirituality. If adherence to a religious tradition makes one a better person that’s great. If used as a justification for greed, anger and/or ignorance its a bad thing. I would describe myself as pagan/buddhist if I had to come up with a label. I’ve got to love a philosophy that quotes a great master as saying If you meet the buddha, kill him and another as saying the sutras (scriptures) are useful only for wiping away the pus from boils, which is analogous to a xtian preacher saying ‘the bible is only good for using as toilet paper’, i.e., its the message that’s significant. Atheism is just another bullshit religion, I always say. But to each their own.

81. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

I know that this is the fundie version of what I’m talking about, but Crooks & Liars links to a report from a visit to the Creationist “Museum”:

This Saturday, I made my much anticipated field trip to the Answers in Genesis Creation Museum, a $27 million monstrosity devoted to religious fanaticism, disguised as “science”.

Two of my heretical friends and I ventured an hour north up I-75 from Lexington, just short of Cincinnati, to discover a museum full of shocking idiocy and unintentional humor.

Early in the museum, the visitor is given advice on the proper mind frame to have for your visit: “Don’t think, just listen and believe”. As you can see in the picture below, Human Reason is the enemy and God’s Word is the hero. Descartes represents Human Reason, saying “I think, therefore I am”. But God tells us there no need to waste your beautiful mind, for God says “I am that I am”.

They post to This picture, which greets you when you enter.

82. marisacat - 10 June 2007

LOL mY mother never let anyone ascribe atheism to her. She would flick some ash from the cigarette and restate that she ‘believed in nothing’.

83. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

atheism isn’t a religion. It’s the lack of religion, and NO, that’s not another religion.

84. missdevore - 10 June 2007

well, ms_xeno-I think we are saying the same thing. I am able to be a non-theist because I was sold theism, and examined the goods.

85. Revisionist - 10 June 2007

Thats really true MIM. I probably learnt more values from the Justice League than I did in church. All i got out of church was we are all sinners no matter how you live your life. You must accept Jesus as your personal savior or you arent saved and damned to suffer for eternity. They didnt really teach us morals but simply the rules to Gods game.

Bible as liturature — It really is BAAAD liturature. Its nearly unreadle. I read all I could one year. I have never understood how people get so much out of it. Not just morals and philosphy but the narratives. Some fo the story lines are pretty sparse or vague and apparently more based on oral tradition that what is written. I got far more inspiration from a Tom Robbins novel.

Heard a guy last night on the radio who thought the downfall of western religion was the guttenberg press. Once everyone had a copy it was open to anyones interpretation and thats why there are now something like 30K different christain denominantions.

86. jam.fuse - 10 June 2007

People seem to adhere to atheism with an ironically religious zeal is my point, with the dogma of: religion is the devil, science and logic divine scripture, certain writers/philosophers as prophets, etc., mmitmp. No offense intended or anything.

Marisa I guess that’d make your mother a nihilist rather than an atheist, technically speaking.

87. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007
88. marisacat - 10 June 2007

LOL The downfall of the EU constitution ws that everyone in France was issued a hard copy to read. They read it and said FUck NO!

I did read later that the French government doubted it would ever release a full text of something coming up for a vote again.


89. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

no, jam.fuse, most don’t. It isn’t atheism they adhere to, it’s rational discourse, which religion makes all-but impossible these day, as high-jacked as it is by fundamentalists protected by “moderates” who insist that the most insane, unreasonable superstitions must be “respected”, even if they lead to greater human suffering and death. Anybody who clings to some intellectual prophet, as you describes, is either reacting in frustration or still uncertain in their own beliefs. Not to say that there aren’t people like that, but I think their numbers pale in comparison to people who flip at the idea that it’s possible to live morally without a Imaginary Friend.

90. missdevore - 10 June 2007

preacher devore just woke from a nap……she just wishes that if people must discuss religion it should be interesting and provocative. there’s not a lot of that happening these days.

oh, and illuminated gadgets–who cannot fall for them? where would the candle bizness be without religion?

I had a virgin mary night-light, with some soothing aesthetic qualities. it was powerless to help me through the Twilight Zone episode where, due to the quality of summer heat, the girl and her dog get lost in the wall.

I tested the wall, a lot, after seeing that.

91. marisacat - 10 June 2007

Madman at 87

It won’t work again. They did a deal (to suit the NRA) before on background check. and carefully left it unfunded.

The original 93/94 assault weapons ban was loaded iwth loop holes. SOme companies (Bushmaster for one, the weapon of choice for the DC snipers) made MORE money after the ban than before.

I have stopped thinking it matters. SO many weapons out there, frozen political system, bah.

92. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

oh, I’ve given up on gun control too … just spare me the pantomime of pretending to do something while simulateously laying down w/ nutjob extremists, the better for both of you to fundraise.

93. marisacat - 10 June 2007

LOL The mother in the house with the lit BVM ws, on various occasions, in the violent ward.

SOmething was not working. At least, not in that house..

94. Revisionist - 10 June 2007

There was a story earlier in the week about two teens “exercising their second amendemt rights”. They were armed all the time. One had a luger in a holster and the other had a shotgun strapped to his back. They just went around like that doing there normal bisness making the their town very uncomfortable.

95. jam.fuse - 10 June 2007

I confess I found the story of Jesus in the NT quite moving when I read it as a child. Of course I never had religion shoved down my throat as many have.

96. marisacat - 10 June 2007

IF only they could stick to the life of jesus, and not speak for him.

97. missdevore - 10 June 2007

btw, on a belief in water, my tomato plants are doing great.

98. jam.fuse - 10 June 2007

Well I’m cool with anyone’s beliefs as long as they’re not constantly laying their trip on me.

I’m also pro 2nd amendment, after reading Among the Thugs
by Bill Buford, a first hand acount of English football psychos and their penchant for beating people to death for fun.

99. marisacat - 10 June 2007

New Thread


100. marisacat - 10 June 2007

well of two friends who were murdered, one was shot and one was strangled.

When I was a child a friend of my mother’s committed suicide. She jumped off the roof of their building.

There is always a way.

the Democrats made a mess of the 93 campaign on assault weapons and law. It was then I separated from gun control – as sold by politicos in our wretched nation The whole thing was ugly to watch, badly done, they lectured instead of pulling in law enforcement and ER docs who were agitating for change as well. Feinstein was particurly hard to take.’

I just threw up my hands.

101. bayprairie - 10 June 2007

I’m also pro 2nd amendment, after reading Among the Thugs
by Bill Buford, a first hand acount of English football psychos and their penchant for beating people to death for fun.

i wasn’t aware that the second amendment to the U.S. constitution offered some type of solution to the english working-class phenomenon of football hooliganism.

i was about to ask if you care to explain. but on second thought, i think i’ll not.

102. ms_xeno - 10 June 2007

Heh. Madman, I’ve read at least some of most of the SF Canon. All I can say that as a female, I find those men to have hauled an awful lot of baggage from the Bible into their brave new world of enlightenment. Though I’m sure they’d deny it. :p

Elric and much of Heinlen in particular made me break out in hives, long before I’d even heard the word “feminist.” 😀

103. jam.fuse - 10 June 2007

I would prefer to be armed to the teeth when my loved ones and myself are set upon by an army of murderous goons, bayprairie.

104. ms_xeno - 10 June 2007


People seem to adhere to atheism with an ironically religious zeal is my point,

Not the atheists I know. Does consistency and determination when confronted by evangelists online or off now count as “zeal ?”

The jaggoffs I see at Pioneer Courthouse square when I’m downtown are most assuredly not preaching nor waving signs touting atheism. And the only reason I know that atheist “non-tracts” exist is because an ex-HM had some yellowing ones from the ASCII era of the internet that she’d tacked to the fridge.

No atheist has ever knocked on my door and offered to sit down and debunk the Bible for me over coffee, either.

105. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

Elric and most of the rest of the Eternal Champion canon were actually adapted from several myths, one of which was Christian (that one was especially reflected in the Hawkmoon books). Elric is drawn mostly from old Irish myths of the Sidhe, as was Corum. He’s pretty up front about it, and the whole idea is that they get their power from human belief, not from some external power. If you want his best take on Xtianity, “Behold the Man” is pretty great.

Heinlein … well, no argument here, though from him I got reinforcement of the idea that people build things and adapt their environment because that’s what people DO. What can I say … I’m a suburban white male, and I went thru my libertarian phase.

106. jam.fuse - 10 June 2007

zeal is not a bad thing in itself.

Otherwise, thought provoking points, ms_x.

Whats an HM?

107. jam.fuse - 10 June 2007

The novella Universe by Heinlein fairly ripped my head off as a teen. I highly recommend it. Stranger in a Strange Land I’d like to peruse again, don’t think I quite grokked as a young ‘un.

108. ms_xeno - 10 June 2007

Oh, sorry, jam.fuse.

HM = “House-mate.”

109. ms_xeno - 10 June 2007

…I’m a suburban white male, and I went thru my libertarian phase.

Hey, Madman, didn’t we all ? :p

I’m not saying that it’s only White male SF geniuses that are often emeshed in dogma at the very moment wherein they most loudly proclaim freedom from it. I’ve watched too many replays of White feminists telling WOC how they should mind their manners in feminist space to think that any of us are immune from the shit we’ve been infused with from the day of birth.

Also, there’s a lot of works I love even with their flaws. Margaret Atwood, for instance, can write brilliantly when she’s “on,” but in many of her books the men are made of cardboard;It seems like she can’t be bothered to make them anything but outlines where characters should be. A problem many male writers have with women, in reverse.

110. jam.fuse - 10 June 2007

Ursala K. LeGuin’s early SF novels are spellbinding feminist/anarchist texts imo.

111. Tuston - 11 June 2007

Does a Dog have Buddha nature?

Paris found God in Jail (according to Barbar Walters EXCLUSIVE!)
Madman honed his sense of ethics from Comics/Science Fiction
jam.fuse is armed and ready for madmax (welcome to NOLA!)
I’ve got no clue, but one good toke of Salvia D. and then She tells me the most fantastic stories about everything (of course, that don’t make them true, but they sure are pretty)

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