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Sunday Thread 10 June 2007

Posted by marisacat in DC Politics, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, WAR!.

    al Anbar March 2006 China Daily AFP photo Nov 2005
US Marines conduct an Improvised Explosive Device (IED) sweep in the Zaidon area of Al-Anbar province, southeast of Fallujah, November, 2005.  [AFP]

I found the photo at a China Daily article from March of 2006  — it quotes a recent poll and, 16 months on… there we are, mired in concrete.  Not going anywhere, not leaving.  Just spanning the globe.

The Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found 66 percent of those surveyed believe the threat of a civil war in Iraq has increased.

That was sharply higher than the 48 percent who shared that opinion in January, before the destruction of the Shiite shrine in Samarra and the subsequent upsurge in violence.

“As the third anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq approaches, public support for keeping US troops in Iraq has reached its lowest point and assessments of progress there have turned significantly more negative than they were just a few months ago,” the think tank said.

Only 49 percent of those polled believe that the United States will succeed in Iraq, down from around 55 percent for several months.

Trust in President George W. Bush’s strategy for victory continues to sink: currently 70 percent believe he lacks a clear plan for successfully ending the war.

The poll, which has a five-point margin of error, was carried out among 1,405 people between March 8 and 12.



1. jam.fuse - 10 June 2007

Donna in Rome at eurotrib.com has a darkly amusing tidbit regarding GWB’s visit to her city, which she translates from daily Italian rag Il Messaggero:

Berlusconi disclosed just one detail [of their meeting]: he offered the U.S. president a post as a professor in the nascent “university of freedoms” he is founding in Italy. An invitation, says Berlusconi, which Bush immediately returned, asking Berlusconi to collaborate in a similar foundation he intends to create in Texas.


2. missdevore - 10 June 2007

jamfuse-I read that. One can only imagine the curriculum.

3. missdevore - 10 June 2007

anyone read/hear anything on the protest NYCee was attending?

4. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

no, but I was decompressing with samurai movies and then a Mythbusters marathon all day.

5. Madman in the Marketplace - 10 June 2007

Silber on racism, both the Coulter AND Alterman varieties.

6. marisacat - 10 June 2007

I am so sorry I was not physically aable to see Alterman arrested in NH a couple or so weeks ago.

What a hoot!!

7. ms_xeno - 10 June 2007

I wish Alterman would just have perform his Horrowitz transformation and be done with it.

8. MIss Devore - 10 June 2007

Oh no. I napped out again….who are we bombing?

9. missdevore - 10 June 2007

question–I have been innocently soaking my feet with epsom salts to gets the callouses off. Now I read about the athlete who died of ben-gay poisoning. please alert me if my foot-soaking practices could be lethal. the obit will already have several points of embarassment, so I don’t want to exacerbate things.

10. marisacat - 10 June 2007

well I can recommend pumice stone, but made from lava rock. LOL If you want to avoid any sort of topical treatment. 8)

I must say dying of overdose of a topical muscle pain reliever seems a stretch. But, off she went.

11. New Fake Name - 10 June 2007

This was touched upon in the last thread:

Alexander Cockburn argues that the anthropogenic CO2-driven global warming dogma currently fashionable and near religion among a broad swath of left-leaning people, alternate-energy, and even Big oil interest/advocates (after all, petro-hydrocarbons yield more energy/CO2 produced than their next most competative energy industry “fossil” fuel rival– the coal industry) is largely a bunch of faith-based hooiey– and he makes a pretty good case for it in this Counterpunch article:

Dissidents Against Dogma

[[I never realized before this article that plain old water vapor has ~20x the greenhouse gas effect , on a molar basis, as CO2!?].

12. missdevore - 10 June 2007

maybe she mixed it with a christian energy drink.you never know.

at least we are lucky to have a Sheba tester on the grounds.

13. marisacat - 10 June 2007

Well Baby can no longer get down from the bed… so I am making sure she has a few very perfect days.

14. New Fake Name - 10 June 2007

[Sorry about the multiple posts above. It did not show up on the first tries]

[Interesting article by Cockburn though]

15. marisacat - 10 June 2007


Don’t worry about the multiples.. I just deleted them. LOL WP is erratic enough between irrational moderation and a spam sieve that is nonsensical at times.

Well i am not sold on the textbook chapter and verse, I mean what is being sold as The Story. Thanks for the link.. 😉

16. jam.fuse - 10 June 2007

Dr. Scholls iir makes a callous file or whatever you call it that works wonders, missd.

17. missdevore - 10 June 2007

I feel we are having a geriatric day here. Must draw up plans for fussy lefty retirement community. Accomodations must be made for our equally geriatric pets.

I’m really jonesing for some BHHM stories.

18. missdevore - 10 June 2007

gorgeous pink sunset if I edit out the burger king in the lower register.

19. moiv - 10 June 2007

Evening, all —

From the last thread (I’ve been catching up):

the Democrats made a mess of the 93 campaign on assault weapons and law. It was then I separated from gun control – as sold by politicos in our wretched nation. The whole thing was ugly to watch, badly done, they lectured instead of pulling in law enforcement and ER docs who were agitating for change as well. Feinstein was particurly hard to take.’
I just threw up my hands.

That’s exactly how I feel about the current public discourse on “reducing abortion.”

The whole thing is ugly to watch, badly done, they lecture instead of pulling in the public health professionals and abortion-providing docs who are agitating for change as well.
[Insert any Dem’s name] is particurly hard to take.

That’s it. And my hands may fly into the air at any moment.

20. Sabrina Ballerina - 10 June 2007

No atheist has ever knocked on my door and offered to sit down and debunk the Bible for me over coffee, either.

What a missed opportunity, I can’t believe it in this capitalistic society we live in, ms xeno!

Lol, Miss D, I’ll have to look for that ‘feet’ poem again …. you need to go wading in the ocean. I think feet need salt water every once in a while.

{{{Catnip}}} I hope you’re feeling better soon. Meanwhile, enjoy the movies! I want to see the one about the Queen, forget the title. I can never get to watch a movie I want to see … everyone else seems to decide before I get a chance. Eg, last weekend, I definitely did NOT want to watch ‘Rocky 20’ or whatever number the latest one is, but ended up watching it anyway. I think I fell asleep because I don’t remember the end. Everyone else thought it was great.

21. missdevore - 10 June 2007

I rarely follow much of the “netroot” nonsense, but Stoller at dk caught my eye just now holding up the republican style as example:

“Seriously, watch Sam Brownback’s video clip. What he does in that Youtube clip suggests a healthy party structure. ”

I understand his point about disagreement, but when you hold up exchanges between truly nutty people as positive examples..

22. marisacat - 10 June 2007

the Boyz have no beliefs, none. It gets problematical.

I know they fervently think they do… and would argue as the bubbles rose around them as they sink in the fast moving water… but they don’t.

I remmeber reading Stoller 3, 4 years ago. Much stronger language, still some beliefs.

But if you go back (and it is hardly worthwhile) 15 years and read Richard Cohen of the Wapo… same thing, stronger language, clearly more liberal stances. Now he is just conservative lecturing mush.

They dissolve in the harsh water of political “pragmatism” and searching for friends and patrons.

I still remember Anthony Lewis’ next to last column for the NYT, he made sure he took the chance, with a spike in readership for his departure, to lay out the Bantustan mess that the USA and ISrael planned for the Palestinians.

Retained his ethics and his beliefs. made of sterner stuff.

Boyz are basically slop shaped into a form.

23. marisacat - 10 June 2007


Just read (in Newsweek) that Hillary is polling at or slightly above 50% unfavorable.

Whoooooooooooo eee!


But Clinton’s problems go beyond perfecting her personal touch. In polls, she lags significantly with independents, a group that mistrusts establishment candidates. Independents could prove crucial in early-primary states with open contests like California and South Carolina. In New Hampshire, where independent crossover voters have historically helped fresh-faced candidates upset front runners, Barack Obama could compete with John McCain and Rudy Giuliani for anti-establishment votes. “You’re out there trying to create a sense of electability and your negatives are 52 percent,” says one Democratic consultant, who asked not to be named questioning Clinton’s strengths. “That’s a tough case to make.”


24. D. Throat - 10 June 2007

Serious desperation:

ice cream
by kid oakland
Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 08:59:42 PM PDT

ice cream
by kid oakland
Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 08:59:42 PM PDT

From where I stand, it’s also one of the the only ways we humans can confront the force of history…one community at a time. That’s how we founded this country, and it’s how Rev. King forged the Civil Rights movement. In fact, there was a guy who was popular last presidential election cycle. His name was Howard Dean. He wasn’t perfect. Nobody is. But his message was similar to what I’m trying to convey tonight. We are living at a turning point. These are exciting, significant times. What we do and say makes a difference.

KO detested Dean…. which is why he was taken into the “inner circle”.

There are no Deans in this race…. not Obama and definitely not Edwards… Hiliary’s Beautiful Strategerie…. ain’t gonna work

25. NYCee - 10 June 2007

From the previous thread:

“38. Sabrina Ballerina – 10 June 2007

NYCee, good for you, I wonder will the media cover that protest? About time Americans got to hear the other side of that story.”

Thanks for the solidarity shout out, Sabrina. I dont think they did cover it at all. I heard CNN and another media van were there, but I didnt actually see anything. I really didnt expect it to be covered, though.

3. missdevore – anyone read/hear anything on the protest NYCee was attending?

I did, missdevore, I did!

We had a really great time. It was nice to be a larger contingent on the End the Occupation end than the Zionistas, who did show up to counter-protest a bit once we started marching. One looked for all the world like a raging white supremacist. But enough about them.

My expectations were pretty low – I pretty much saw it as doing my duty, but I was pleasantly surprised. Had great company/conversation, so the ride there by bus seemed to take an hour rather than the 4 it actually took. (We took one of the myriad of Chinatown lines, which go to DC fast and cheap)

The weather was good, the people were good – young, old, in between – it was just a very nice day to say End the Occupation, united with kindred spirits, milling around on the Capital lawn. Someone was handing out little carved birds from olive trees cut down on the WB. Code Pink there, Medea, et al. Iraq veterans, Jewish Voice for Peace, Socialists, Greens, assorted and sundry folk. Roseanne Barr’s taped statement of solidarity was played, so kudos to her. And kudos to Kucinich whose statement was read from the stage – at least he put his name out there in solidarity – the sole elected official to do so. Cars honked, folks smiled in agreement or said thanks, even, as we marched.

Wasnt as big a crowd as I had expected, and I knew it wouldnt be all that big – my friend thought maybe 3,000. Okay. A small Seurat. Hopefully we’ll have more dots next time. It is still too close to taboo to expect much more.

UfPJ took their first step by sponsoring this, and Leslie Kagan made a pretty rousing speech. UfPJ didnt give it the attention in the lead up that they do for Iraq or did for the RNC convention protest, but they did more than ever before, including making up signs that said:

Occupation: Wrong in Iraq, wrong in Palestine.

End U.S. Support for the Israeli Occupation

Good vibes, good time.

26. NYCee - 10 June 2007

Sorry to hear that about Baby, Marisa. I know how that is… Wishing you strength.

27. marisacat - 10 June 2007


glad you had a good day. I sort of took today off from the news… so I don’t know if Cspan or CNN gave it any coverage..

WEll… have to see how it goes with Baby… In a few days probably.


D Throat…

LOL You know how they pull Dean out when the going gets tough. I assume Arnstrong is waxing paradisical again about Burlington days. I have not bothered with Nydd today. Seems to me BTD had some slobberation up. A veritable waterfall of slobber.

Congress numbers in private polling must be even lower than the public polls.

yeah they seem tense.

28. NYCee - 10 June 2007

Ben gay poisoning! Ya know, ya just never know…

Perhaps he ingested it… a ben gay pate, or something.

29. bayprairie - 10 June 2007

“Seriously, watch Sam Brownback’s video clip. What he does in that Youtube clip suggests a healthy party structure. ”

healthy isn’t neccessarily desirable. a thriving tumor is healthy and the health is a direct stepping stone to the organism’s death.

i bet stoller just gets aroused by a candidate that isnt reading crap talking points written by dipshit consultants. this is probably due to a complete lack of believability in his present political surroundings. imagine, a candidate with a bonifide opinion that feels “real”.

meanwhile pelosi speaks of god’s gift of science, a democratic congress funds CPCs and the anti-war harry reid passes congressional funding for a criminal’s illegal war. interesting what the donk’s lust after, isnt it?

no wonder he’s jealous. just forget the friggin point.

as long as it’s believable.

30. marisacat - 10 June 2007

Barney for congress!

It can only get better!

31. bayprairie - 11 June 2007

the informed american voter

might as well laugh. beating one’s head against the wall gets old.

vote barney!

32. missdevore - 11 June 2007

from the latimes:

“WASHINGTON — Sudan has secretly worked with the CIA to spy on the insurgency in Iraq, an example of how the U.S. has continued to cooperate with the Sudanese regime even while condemning its suspected role in the killing of tens of thousands of civilians in Darfur.

President Bush has denounced the killings in Sudan’s western region as genocide and has imposed sanctions on the government in Khartoum. But some critics say the administration has soft-pedaled the sanctions to preserve its extensive intelligence collaboration with Sudan.”

33. marisacat - 11 June 2007

oh can’t we jsut wear a colored rubber bracelet for Africa and call it done?

34. missdevore - 11 June 2007

our options are so limited since we keep discharging our gay Arabic translators.

35. missdevore - 11 June 2007
36. NYCee - 11 June 2007

This too:


A former American army torturer has laid bare the traumatic effects of American interrogation techniques in Iraq – on their victims and on the perpetrators themselves.

Tony Lagouranis conducted mock executions, forced men and boys into agonising stress positions, kept suspects awake for weeks on end, used dogs to terrify detainees and subjected others to hypothermia.[… ]

Between January 2004 and January 2005, first at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison – by then cleaning up its act as the prisoner abuse scandal was breaking – and then in Mosul, north Babil, he tortured suspects, most of whom he says turned out to be innocent. He says that he realised he had entered a moral dungeon when he found himself reading a Holocaust memoir, hoping to pick up torture tips from the Nazis.[… ]

He is highly critical of the Pentagon for issuing instructions to pursue enhanced interrogation techniques. “Some commanders tacitly allowed harsher things like beating detainees and breaking their bones,” he said.

Mr Lagouranis is scathing about a system in which inexperienced young interrogators copied what they saw in Hollywood and on television programmes such as 24, whose lead character Jack Bauer -regularly uses torture on -terrorists.

37. marisacat - 11 June 2007

well… we know we simply killed people. I will read the whole thing but Lagouranis seems to dwell on the lighter aspects.

Thw worst I ever read was something galiel posted way way back. A man’s body, or rather bits of it were thru out the US system. His jaw was in a jar in the US, parts of his spine were in IRaq, and so on.

It is interesting that anyone thinks some mundane and debased thing like a US election can change any of this.

38. marisacat - 11 June 2007


I read one report that said perhaps 5,000 at the march you were at….

39. wozzle - 11 June 2007

From the discussion of original sin in the previous thread – WRONG!

40. Sabrina Ballerina - 11 June 2007

“Seriously, watch Sam Brownback’s video clip. What he does in that Youtube clip suggests a healthy party structure. ”

Unbelievable – no matter how you interpret this, something is serously wrong with anyone who tries to find something positive about a party that would have been in the minority had it not been for the widespread corruption, Abramoff et al, which funded it, paid for it, and the smears and lies told about anyone who opposed it.

Anyone who can find any saving graces in today’s Republican Party has some serious ethical problems of their own. He just answered my question regarding how they can follow the lead of Jerome Armstrong.

Someone tell them to just go join that organization they so admire. Chait was so right about them …

Wozzle, that article is very interesting … and it helps to understand why so many people cannot be made to feel even remotely sympathetic to the victims of our policies.

Moral decisions can often feel like abstract intellectual challenges, but a number of experiments such as the one by Grafman have shown that emotions are central to moral thinking. In another experiment published in March, University of Southern California neuroscientist Antonio R. Damasio and his colleagues showed that patients with damage to an area of the brain known as the ventromedial prefrontal cortex lack the ability to feel their way to moral answers.

When confronted with moral dilemmas, the brain-damaged patients coldly came up with “end-justifies-the-means” answers. Damasio said the point was not that they reached immoral conclusions, but that when confronted by a difficult issue — such as whether to shoot down a passenger plane hijacked by terrorists before it hits a major city — these patients appear to reach decisions without the anguish that afflicts those with normally functioning brains.

The problem is there appear to be so many who are disturbed in power and so many willing to follow them.

41. Sabrina Ballerina - 11 June 2007

NYCee, thanks for the report. For a first time, and with no media coverage, that was pretty good, imo. I haven’t seen or heard anything about it so far. Will check AAR later, but I doubt they will cover it either –

42. marisacat - 11 June 2007

I went and read the whole post where stoller suggest the R party system is so healthy… he opens lauding Simon Rosenberg. I think he nearly says he learned everything he knows frm him (about the party).

GREAT!! a fucking lobbyist propagandist who campaigned for Lieberman. In the last go round. The Boyz neglected to say much about that (kiss kiss to the Lamonts)

gah. I need Pepto Bismol. Or something.

43. Miss Devore - 11 June 2007

great find, wozzle.

44. JJB - 11 June 2007

New Fake Name,

Re Cockburn and global warming, he still thinks Lenin is someone worthy of admiration and respect.

He gets absolutely dotty on certain subjects, and this is one of them. Although not strictly Anglo-Irish, he possesses the highly eccentric mindset of a number of members of that dwindling, inbred subspecies. While I think Counterpunch is an invaluable source of information, a fair amount of junk appears in it, and that article is one example of such. Frankly, I think Alex is the least trustworthy and dependable of the Cockburn brothers.

45. Miss Devore - 11 June 2007

I find this exasperating:

“Ono also said that when she became pregnant with Sean shortly after the couple reunited in 1975 following a two-year separation, she let Lennon decide whether she should have the baby or abort it.

“I thought that I should let John decide whether to keep it or not. We’d just got back together and I became pregnant very soon, and I didn’t know if it was the right moment to have a child. I just didn’t want to burden him with something he didn’t want,” Ono said.”

46. Sabrina Ballerina - 11 June 2007

Good diary on the Palestinian situation in Lebanon yesterday, visited by the ever-charming Dhinmi. Way to win support for your opinions:


* [new] You Know, Why Don’t You Go Fuck Yourself (6+ / 0-)

Recommended by:GOTV, sofia, Jay Elias, Pumpkinlove, Doodad, jhritz

Save the bigot accusation for instances of bigotry, not disagreement.

The revolution will not be televised, but we’ll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

by DHinMI on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 02:10:16 PM PDT


Damn right, DH. (0 / 0)


by GOTV on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 06:31:55 PM PDT

The ‘bigotry’ accusation was not personal. A fine point that would have been ‘analyzed to death’ by the same dhinmi, had it suited him.

This what the commenter said. If the shoe fits, wear it:

So blaming Israel for all the woes is bad (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:corvo, bunny99
but blaming Syria for all the woes is good.

There is no proof Syria sponsors Jihadists. They have locked a lot of them up. They worked with us to arrest others until we became too demanding. As for Iraqi insurgents, that is another matter (but not addressed in the article, because in the US media, they are normally fused.)

Why did we allow King Hussein of Jordan not to follow us in 1991 to war with Iraq, and he didn’t get treated like we treated Bashar, who correctly stated that Iraq would fall apart. Both understood that the populace would not stand for war at the time. The concept that Syria can have any significant effect on which way Iraq goes by itself is quite foolish. (and given that from 2003, Bashar has been quite open with working with the US on controlling the border, which we ignore. We would prefer to stand back in our arrogant manliness and say ‘He is not doing enough’ while the thousand year old trade route does what it has done for centuries, moved goods.

The bombings have been timed to go off right before UN votes. An odd time for Syria to ‘scare’ the Lebanese.

And the writer ignores the growing evidence that Prince Bandar has been working with Sa’d Hariri to fund the Sunni extremists, in hopes of one day combatting Hizballah, but then it blew up. Not unlike using Usama to combat to the Russians in Afghanistan. (How did that turn out?)

Go ahead and act like the bigots you hate. Blame Syria for everything.

by mickT on Sat Jun 09, 2007 at 02:01:20 PM PDT

Yeah, ‘go fuck yourself’, mickT – pointing out hypocrisy is a ‘no-no’ on dk if it has anything to do with Israel.

47. lucidculture - 11 June 2007

A bit late to the party, but as to last thread MitM, et al. I’m one of the biggest anti-religionists out there – particularly when it comes to the ‘big 5’, however, I think there is a legitimate response to some of what you say about the shared texts of the 3 monotheistic ones:

1. When it comes to the Eden story, it is not necessarily a story of degradation, but rather the birth of reason – the elevation of humans to ‘humanity’. Reason requires alienation, which is precisely what the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and evil represents. To reason we must ‘objectify’ the world – to ‘objectify’ the world, we are consequently aliented from the immediateness of sensation. The Eden story, like many other creation stories throughout mythology is simply a tale about the birth of science. One can also see this throughout commentaries in Torah & mystical texts like Zohar.

2. Many of the staunchest humanists have argued that the figure of ‘the god made flesh’ is the most important step forward for humanism historically – humanism requires universalism within subjectivity – that is the very definition of Kantian humanism – that a subjectivity can derive universal laws – that the objectivizing activity of subjectivity is, in fact, the basis of universality. Hegel’s Phenomenology also focuses long and hard on the figure of ‘Christ’ and it’s relationship to the development of universalism. And, though he’d never admit it, Nietzsche does as well, albeit through an appeal to the mythological character that the ‘Jesus’ myth is based – Dionysios.

Just a couple of thoughts. I need to go back and finish that thread…

48. lucidculture - 11 June 2007

Sorry – last post Torah = Talmud

49. D. Throat - 11 June 2007

How can you tell when the Boyz are LYING?.. Their fingers are typing.

Rothenberg: Democrats Played Iraq “like a Stradivarius”

by Matt Stoller, Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 11:43:27 AM EST

If you want to know the decrepit and immoral state of conventional wisdom in DC, check out Stuart Rothernberg’s piece on the supplemental vote. Rothenberg is part of the forecaster-consultant complex, bumping up races or downgrading them, thereby helping the party committees determine which seats are in play. He has a well-known beef with Chris Bowers specifically and liberals in general, mocking Howard Dean and the idea of a 50 state strategy until the 2006 wave election occurred. Rothenberg is not a Republican and he isn’t particularly an ideologue right-winger, but he does believe in conservative ideas. In that, he’s a lot like Rahm Emanuel, Steny Hoyer, and Ken Salazar. He’s center-right, the ultimate Beltway pundit, bad at his job but good for the money centers. So it shouldn’t be a surprise to read his latest column on how terrifically Democratic centrists played the war vote, and how they will benefit tremendously from giving Bush another blank check.

That is an about face if I ever saw one. Pathetic opportunist

50. D. Throat - 11 June 2007

How can you tell if the Boyz are REALLY LYING? They type using polls.

pso Polls Gore at 20%

by Jerome Armstrong, Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 08:25:12 AM EST

For the most part, the polling on the side of the Democrats has not been very fluid as of late, but is that changing? If you look over at the chart on RCP, there’s been a definite up-tick in favor of Al Gore over the last month.

Ipso has a new poll out, and among Democrats:

June March

Clinton 33 38
Obama 21 21
Gore 20 14
Edwards 12 10
Richardson 3 4


And if Gore doesn’t decide to run, the benefactor will be Edwards.

Doncha know MyDD readers are too stupid to realize that in this poll that the CONMAN post… it is clear that the points garnered by Gore came directly from Hiliary… this is not rocket science but a simple matter of addition and subtraction.

They say if you LIE bold enough and loud enough no one will notice.

51. marisacat - 11 June 2007

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:



52. wu ming - 11 June 2007

the real message of the OT, after reading the epic of gilgamesh that it was loosely based on, seems to me to be that 1) god is good, 2) creation is moral, and 3) that our role is to be devotional subjects. no impudently lobbing lambshanks at the gods in genesis.

53. wozzle - 11 June 2007

Well, you CAN lob lambshanks at the gods, as long as you burn’em first.

54. lucidculture - 11 June 2007

Sorry to hear about Baby Mcat. I hope she has a glorious last few days.

55. Miss Devore - 11 June 2007

the arrogant fuck:

“I’ll make the determination as to whether he’s effective,” said Bush, AP reported. “They can have their votes of no-confidence but it’s not going to make the determination about who serves in my government.”

56. ms_xeno - 11 June 2007

Congrats to NYCee on a day well spent.

Relax and enjoy, sweet Baby. =^..^= Don’t be too demanding toward Human Mom,okay ?

Catnip, feel better soon.

Gotta’ run. Monday’s always ridiculously busy. I’ll leave out some fruit if anyone’s hungry…

57. Sabrina Ballerina - 11 June 2007

Yes, hugs for {{{Baby}}} …

Hilarity and hypocrisy reigns on dk … from the usual suspects, much in the minority these days from what I can tell.

David Siroto’s rec’d diary on how a New Poll Exposes Idiot Dem Consultants as Idiots brought a few of them into the thread. But this one had me really laughing out loud I have to admit:

Here’s the thing: (5+ / 0-)

Recommended by:jxg, Yoshimi, Unduna, OneCrankyDom, Pager

I used to respect Sirota, based precisely on his work in print media. Then I saw how he behaves around here and while I continue to find much of his writing interesting and useful, I’ve lost a significant amount of respect for him because he’s just such a goddamn ass. And I say that as someone who, others will testify, has no particular problem with combativeness or even outright abrasiveness.

by MissLaura on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 09:13:42 AM PDT

Rotfl! From the woman who threatened violence in her attempt to protect the blogosphere’s biggest ‘goddamn ass’, dhinmi! Not to mention her years-long excusing of armando’s worst behavior (although she seems to have jumped that ship lately, no surprise!)

Siroto attacked their very reason for being – and he has a growing platform for his opinions, so it’s not his ‘assholishness’ that bothers them, it’s the potential threat to their greedy, deceptive, hoped-for means of raking in cash. If they could just be honest, people would not despise them so much. Her hero, dhinmi, could certainly be included in Siroto’s ‘idiotic consultants’ category.

Really, who lets these people near a computer to speak for the ‘biggest liberal blog’ on the internet’? She is loyal to the ‘right’ (pun intended) people though, you have to give her that!


Then there’s this, from the guy who wrote the slanderous Sockpuppet Diary last week. No apologies for the lies he told about good people in that diary from the ‘administration’ or anyone else yet, but this comment could only come from someone so blinded by ideology and his own glaring propensity to publish actual lies about other people, not present to defend themselves, I suppose all you can do is laugh!

Oh no (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:dennisl, zemblan

I can’t prove that AIPAC is not a tool of the Iron Fist of teh Zionists – therefore, it must be true.

I get so tired of this. Reality-based community, indeed. There are days when I think that AIPAC has fond dreams of being as all-powerful as some seem to think it is.

“All who seek to gain from liberty something other than itself are born to be slaves.” – Alexis de Tocqueville

by MBNYC on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 10:54:13 AM PDT

Reality based indeed is right. Not exactly someone to make a point about facts of any kind. Hypocrisy is too kind a word for these people. Ironic sig-line, considering the individual!

58. missdevore - 11 June 2007

from my last diary at dk:


miss devore 55 votes – 37 %
misslaura 36 votes – 24 %
mistake 9 votes – 6 %
missbeasly 1 vote – 0 %
misogyny 14 votes – 9 %
misssissippi 11 votes – 7 %
play misty for me 21 votes – 14 %

147 Total Votes”

59. Sabrina Ballerina - 11 June 2007

Oh yes, meant to add that MBNYC is defending AIPAC in that thread Aipac spy trial delayed

Miss D, that statement from Bush is very revealing – not we need it, but of course he’s happy with Gonzales ‘effectiveness’. Isn’t that the suspicion re the WH’s involvement in the US Attorney scandal? That he did a good job for THEM. But that is not who he was supposed to be working for. Bush really has just confessed to what many suspect and to where the evidence seems to be leading.

Today is the day of the Senate’s ‘No Confidence’ vote on Gonzales. What a waste of time that is. Why will they not use their Constitutional powers to remove law-breakers from our government? Gonzales is still there, and Bush promises he will there, harming this country and the best Congress can do is call him a ‘naught boy’!! As Mcat says so often, ‘we are screwed’!

Oh, btw, in that Siroto diary, he accused them of being jealous of his and others’ success! Lol, funny, Pinche Tejano accused them of the same thing regarding Miss D (he got a lot of his comments hidden in his defense of Miss D in that slanderous diary!

Siroto and Pinche Tejano is correct, they are jealous of those who have principles and who state them without fear. They were jealous of Supervixen, of Miss D., and of so many others because it must stink to be willing to compromise your own principles, if you have any, for the teeny, tiny reward of a pat on the back from those they perceive to be the ‘in crowd’.

People of principle are a constant insult and threat to such people. Siroto may be an ego-maniac, I can’t say, don’t know him well enough, but he stated the general consensus about that small group on DK who attack anyone who deviates from their agenda and who gain popularity by doing so.

Lol, Siroto was troll-rated into hidden comments by the usual, pea-brains on that blog. I doubt he cares! That’s all they’ve got, their little troll-button. But he’s laughing all the way to national prominence as a journalist while they whine behind their computer screens. They are pathetic people who have facilitated the ongoing crimes of this administration by attempting to silence those who consistently told the truth and who have now been proven to be correct.

60. Revisionist - 11 June 2007

RE # 57…..

You could prove MBNYC wrong. Post two diaries. Title one FUCK ISRAEL. Title the other FUCK FRANCE. Wait and see which one is tagged troll diary first and brings people out of the woodwork.

The very fact that people are AFRAID to discuss Israel, that people get banned for discussing Israel, that some sites wont eben let you bring it up speaks to the power. or fear of it.

I beilieve at DKos it is a bannable offense to suggest that AIPAC/Feith/Wolfitz spyring was working both ways. AIPAC was feeding Israel our intel and in turn Israel was feeding us bad intel to get us into the Iraq war.

Does anyone discuss that the Niger foregeries lead to Israel?

Statistically, there should be far more gays in the US than Jews. Do you see Obama groveling to any gay groups. Nancy Pelosi being a key note speaker at an HRC function? Fienstein offering bills supporting gays?

61. Sabrina Ballerina - 11 June 2007

Applause! Applause! You won, Miss Devore! Lol! And without even trying ….

62. marisacat - 11 June 2007

Sadly tho gay groups donate, a lot. OBama and Hillary all have their followers out here and dedicatged fundraisers and databases and on and on.

What a shame. WITHHOLD.

They don’t represent you they don’t care about you, don’t give them money and votes.

The same for women. The same if you oppose the wars and THEY VOTED FOR IT.

Til the electorate learns that it is all just spin.

63. Sabrina Ballerina - 11 June 2007

True, Revisionist, but out here in the Real World, rumblings are beginning to be heard regarding all of this. The only reason for no outrage at that Aipac Spy case, is because, amazingly it has received zero coverage in the news.

The conviction of Larry Franklin for passing sensitive information to a ‘foreign nation’ I believe the charges were, did not make a ripple in the US Media. I think he is currently serving 12 years in prison.

The problem with that trial is that it points directly to Cheney again and his band of neocons in the OSP and to Condi Rice who is on the witness list. A Sec. Of State, called as a witness FOR the defense of two accused spies, also did not make headlines.

I tend to believe the two accused spies’ defense, which is that they had no need to spy, as sensitive material was freely given to them by top Government officials. That all of this involves Iran is another important aspect of the trial.

This case is more proof of a two-way street between the neocons and the current Israeli government using Aipac as its representative here. I have doubted always that it will ever come to trial. It was scheduled for April the last I heard. And now it’s postponed again. Cheney and his band of neocons are traitors to this country. The media that protects are traitors also, imo.

64. Revisionist - 11 June 2007

“That’s all they’ve got, their little troll-button”

The first inkling that something wasnt right was the fact that any smoe could recommend anything but only a special group could decide what was “trollish”. I never understood that logic.

65. marisacat - 11 June 2007

But also that they all fucking fell for TU status. How many people moan that they were banned or something TRed or whatever and they had TU, they were upstanding citizens. Of What? Fucking Kosmania? The land of the knuckledraggers, tongue draggers?

THE ONLY Value ever to TU was to read what ws censored. Nothing else.

Nothing else.

66. lucidculture - 11 June 2007

THE ONLY Value ever to TU was to read what ws censored. Nothing else.

Well, that is how I met SV during the troll wars. I got TU & noticed that she was the only sensible person in the inane convesations going on in the dead and hidden threads.

LC – I hope you’re feeling better & are getting better care from this physician…

btw – completely OT – do you guys think I’m too low rent to date a French neuroscientist who resides on the Upper East Side? I have tentative plans for later in the week & while she seems quite cool, that thought always crosses my mind before I go out with someone that actually has a ‘career’.

67. Miss Devore - 11 June 2007

I had no idea I had TU for the longest time. but then I howled some complaints at Ted Kennedy on one of his posts (about political families who feel entitled) and discovered what it was all about. Some people “apologetically” troll-rated me, informing me about what a bumpkin I was not to realize that when a live Dem posts at dk, graciousness must be extended.

Although that didn’t apply to Obama.

68. D. Throat - 11 June 2007

Midday open thread
by kos
Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 12:14:56 PM PDT

* NE-Sen: A Kerrey/Bruning ticket in Nebraska’s Senate race? Could happen. I see Kerrey, and I think, “Oh no, another Lieberman.” (They’re big buds, btw.) But others say that outside of Iraq (where he’s delusional), he’s a good Democrat.

Remember, the issue isn’t whether Kerrey is to the right of the party. We’re talking Nebraska here. Of course he’d have to be to the right of the Democratic Party. The issue is whether he’d become the go-to guy when the media needs a Democrat to criticize other Democrats and the Democratic Party. Ben Nelson, as right-wing as he might be, has never taken that role, and for that he earns my respect. His votes may be infuriating, but he’s representing his overwhelmingly conservative state and doing so without rubbing his party’s nose in it.

What part of Kerrey being a PNAC signatory doesn’t Kos get????

Why doesn’t Kos just post a PayPal button on each of his posts?

69. New Fake Name - 11 June 2007

Just came across another pretty insightful blog by an Australian aeronautical engineer who posts mostly on American corporatocracy-neocon World Empire-related topics and issues:

Telling the History of the Twenty-First Century as it Really Is

His recent posts are worth taking a look…here is his latest:


In their continued efforts to wedge the Sunni and Shia peoples in the Middle East (bearing in mind that Sunnis are by far the largest Muslim group in the Middle East generally) the Americans have decided to take a punt and are now planning to arm Sunni insurgent groups in Iraq (where Sunnis are a minority group) under the guise of the Sunnis combating ‘al Qaeda in Iraq’.

The reality is that there is no ‘al Qaeda’ in Iraq per se (nor, indeed, hardly anywhere else). There used to be an ‘al Qaeda’ years ago in Afghanistan and there are still remnants of it scattered throughout Afghanistan and Pakistan today, but the label ‘al Qaeda’ today has essentially been hijacked by the US and their allies in order to perpetuate the myth of a monolithic and highly organised extremist pan Islamic global movement out to take over the world and convert it to hard-line Islam; great for propaganda purposes and the rhetoric of Western leaders but the accusations are completely baseless and founded entirely on the imagination of assorted neoconservative think tanks and propagandists and totally lacking any actual evidence.

Whereas the Sunnis of Iraq in the past were the most aggrieved by the invasion of their country by the US and their allies and, indeed, did lead the insurgency in attempting to rid their nation of the invader, the Shiites are now also expressing their displeasure at the prospect of having the US and their allies continuing what is looking like a long-term occupation by the US. As a result of this Shiites are now increasingly joining the insurgency against the US and their allies and, of course, they are doing this with the help of the Iranians (whose population, like Iraq, is mostly Shiite).

Most of the bodies that have been turning up all over Iraq showing signs of having been tortured and then executed are not as a result of secular tit-for-tat killings as the western media has portrayed, but as a result of insurgents having been rounded up by covert Iraqi police and army units acting under the auspices of American commanders. While many are actually insurgents there have also been many men of military age that have innocently been caught in the round-ups and have suffered the same fate.

70. Miss Devore - 11 June 2007

lucid-go for it. I would date anyone who had neuro attached to their identity. neurasthenics? I guess so.

71. marisacat - 11 June 2007

KerrEy is a friggin’ nutter. Anyone wants to stop him apparently more can come out w/r/t Vietnam.

Except that, of course, now we must revere all wars. And salute.

72. marisacat - 11 June 2007


go for it. you may rearrange her life.

73. Revisionist - 11 June 2007

yeah lucid. A french scientist soulds like just the type I should be hooking up with. Following that tangent, back when I was much more social and on the prowl and the inevitable question would come up ” What do you do” — that question is novel length in the information it is actually extracting — I would say “I’m a server at Luby’s”. The reaction usually told me all about that person that I needed to know.

74. D. Throat - 11 June 2007

Along with such neocon stalwarts as Robert Kagan, Bruce Jackson, Joshua Muravchik, James Woolsey, and Eliot Cohen, a half-dozen Democrats were among the 23 individuals who signed PNAC’s first letter on post-war Iraq. Among the Democrats were Ivo Daalder of the Brookings Institution and a member of Clinton’s National Security Council staff; Martin Indyk, Clinton’s ambassador to Israel; Will Marshall of the Progressive Policy Institute and Democratic Leadership Council; Dennis Ross, Clinton’s top adviser on the Israel-Palestinian negotiations; and James Steinberg, Clinton’s deputy national security adviser and head of foreign policy studies at Brookings. A second post-Iraq war letter by PNAC on March 28 called for broader international support for reconstruction, including the involvement of NATO, and brought together the same Democrats with the prominent addition of another Brookings foreign policy scholar, Michael O’Hanlon.

The PNAC letters clearly demonstrated the willingness of liberal hawks to bolster the neocons’ overarching agenda of Middle East restructuring.
But it was not the first time that leading Democrats joined hands with the neocons. In late 2002 PNAC’s Bruce Jackson formed the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq that brought together such Democrats as Senator Joseph Lieberman; former Senator Robert Kerrey, the president of the New School University who now serves on the 9/11 Commission; Will Marshall of the Progressive Policy Institute and the Democratic Leadership Council; and former U.S. Representative Steve Solarz. The neocons also reached out to Democrats through a sign-on letter to the president organized by the Social Democrats/USA, a neocon institute that played a critical role in shaping the National Endowment for Democracy in the early 1980s and in mobilizing labor support for an interventionist foreign policy.

So if Kerrey is elected and he votes to attack Iran …all the Boyz will moan that they “did not see it coming”…. comme habitude

75. D. Throat - 11 June 2007

I’ll be on vacation in Europe when the iPhone arrives, so I’ll have to wait until mid-July to buy it. I’m a bit bummed about that…

Kos is a goof.

76. marisacat - 11 June 2007

oh! How declasse. Europe in summer. Does the boy know NOTHING??

[/sarcasm iwth some truth]

77. outofwater - 11 June 2007

Maybe he has a crash pad on the French Riviera too? He’s a big believer in conspicuous consumption, better nuevo….

78. lucidculture - 11 June 2007

Well Kerrey did horrible things during his tenure at The New School. He became president there during the last year I was officially associated. The students hated him, he fought hard against the demands of union employees [who were even on strike for quite a while]. The war didn’t start until after I left, but I heard from friends who were still in the grad program that there were serious efforts among students to oust him after the war started & he was cheerleading…

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I’m a jeans and tee-shirt guy who’s years from doing what he wants to do with his life [if that ever happens]… So despite my academic credentials, decent conversational skills, and acceptable looks, I always wonder if I’m remotely desirable to someone from the other side of the tracks.

79. outofwater - 11 June 2007

Schumer is on C-Span 2 droning on and on about the “no confidence” vote. What a waste.

80. lucidculture - 11 June 2007

‘I move for a no-confidence vote on Chancellor Velorum’… that turned out real well. 😉

81. D. Throat - 11 June 2007

Kerrey is no fan of Bush… (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Ayanora, madgranny

Which might not mean a whole lot, but it gives him a lot more credibility in my book than Lieberman.

Kerrey is an acceptable choice – the war notwithstanding.

UNO Democrats Blog
Nebraska Young Democrats

by ptmflbcs on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 12:23:21 PM PDT

I agree with the “acceptable” choice (0 / 0)

Actually, even if I had to choose between Nelson and Kerrey, I would still go for Kerrey – while I trust Nelson to be unchangeably and obstinately conservative like the “good” Democrat imprinted on Republicans that he is, I trust Kerrey, simple as that.

And yes, I know we’re talking conservative Nebraska here – I used to live there until couple of years ago.

The time has come for religions made by men for men about men to stay out of women’s lives.

by Ayanora on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 12:31:31 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

Gee… ya think they are operatives?

82. New Fake Name - 11 June 2007

Bob Kerrey is a documented Vietnam-era baby/motherkiller (with relish?).

Google “Thanh Phong Massacre”

The MIC no doubt have lots more gory carrots and sticks in Kerrey’s still secret war portfolio on file to keep him jumping in whatever direction (and how high) in any future “public service” positions they need him to serve in for the glory [cover] of the New American Empire.

83. D. Throat - 11 June 2007


Let’s look long term on Kerrey (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
ptmflbcs, Pozzo

Iraq will be reduced in importance politically when a Dem. president takes office in 2009. S/he will start to wind down the war. We want to have an opportunity to hold this Senate seat for a few terms, so let’s support Kerrey who agrees with the progressives on this site most of the time.

by buzzermaster on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 01:03:19 PM PDT

Pardon me… but wasn’t the latest BBB meme was that they are now NOT partisan… but believed in “idears”

84. Miss Devore - 11 June 2007

it seems they are revving up to get their war with Iran. Gonzales stays in. And we went to the polls for this?

85. D. Throat - 11 June 2007

Gee… I would have never guessed.

Sen. Bob Kerrey (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
ptmflbcs, Pozzo

Sen. Bob Kerry was instrumental in helping Sen. Jim Webb win in Virginia and not too inconsequentially, the majority in the Senate for Democrats

For that reason alone, I would fully support him. And with his pal Jim in the Senate, I’m not at all surprised to see Kerry pining for another walk down memory lane with his old friend to commiserate about times gone-by.

by notime4lies on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 01:11:01 PM PDT

Kerrey campaigned for Webb… (0 / 0)

And was a big supporter of another netroots favorite in Nebraska – Scott Kleeb(aka Luscious Vagina’s Mr. McDreamy).

UNO Democrats Blog
Nebraska Young Democrats

by ptmflbcs on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 01:12:27 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

86. marisacat - 11 June 2007

sending KerrEy to the New School was such a bad “rescue”. I’d love it if more came out about him… I was cheering on the sidelines as he muttered about the presidency in ’98, ’99, ’00 and the traps sprung open.

I don’t see the R willing to be nice about a seat from Neb, if they hve fireballs to throw.

87. D. Throat - 11 June 2007

Last one…

Kerrey is Mr. Privatize Social Security (0 / 0)

No thanks.

If Hillary Clinton wins, the Democratic Party loses.

by Paleo on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 01:39:09 PM PDT

Think that issue will see the light of day… (0 / 0)

Under a Democratic President?

Think like a majority party.

UNO Democrats Blog
Nebraska Young Democrats

by ptmflbcs on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 01:52:56 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

In a word YES… if it is Hiliary, Obama or Edwards gets the nod…. the DLC wants to privatize SS… just like they wanted to “reform” welfare “as we know it”.

88. BooHooHooMan - 11 June 2007

Breaking from New York:

French NeuroScientist Wanted in
Talented Musician/Intellectual Brain Harvesting Scheme.

89. BooHooHooMan - 11 June 2007

Consider the Source.

90. D. Throat - 11 June 2007

Well there was the big bruhaha of him inviting McCain to speak at the graduation days after speaking at liberty.

The students and faculty were in an uproar… there was that fantastic student that spoke and blew away McCain. Kerrey went to far as to address the radical fringe on Huff Post… where he was once again put in his place.

Maybe one day Kos will actually support a progressive instead of the radical right wing fringe he loves so much….

91. New Fake Name - 11 June 2007

Marisa: Please check spam.

92. BooHooHooMan - 11 June 2007


93. marisacat - 11 June 2007


I was glad those men came forward, esp “Gerhard” iirc his name. They just did not let up over KerrEy.

From what I have read [or heard, I don’t remember anymore], he was fragged in Vietnam.

94. Miss Devore - 11 June 2007

BHHM-I need a story. All I am hearing from CNN is that a 10 year old boy, dying of cancer, got his last wish, which seemed to involve killing another mammal.

My idea of the Peacable Kingdom is that the camel lies down with the mammal.

95. lucidculture - 11 June 2007

Ah – BHHM, that explains it… her online profile did list her profession as ‘brain killer’…

96. D. Throat - 11 June 2007

Bob Kerrey| BIO

My Perspective on the New School Commencement

274 Comments | Posted May 23, 2006 | 04:53 PM (EST)

After following the exchange between Senator John McCain’s Chief of Staff, Mark Salter, and one of The New School’s graduating students Jean Sara Rohe, I am compelled to add my perspective and thoughts about the events, which took place at last Friday’s New School commencement.

First of all, I made the decision to invite Senator McCain because he is a distinguished and rightly celebrated world leader whose life story is an inspiration to most. He is also a friend and former colleague with whom I served for 12 years in the U.S. Senate. During that time, we have had our moments of strong agreement and disagreement. The former always feel good and the later always feel like I have just fought with my brother.

Second, an impressive number of my students and faculty disagreed with my decision and urged me to withdraw the invitation. Their objections were largely centered on an assertion that Senator McCain does not represent the values of The New School. After listening to these objections and considering them respectfully, I decided that I would not withdraw my invitation to Senator McCain, in part, because I believe he does represent some of the most important values of The New School and also because I believed our students would benefit from hearing his message.

Third, the argument made by some, that this decision was improper because it was made in a non-democratic, top-down manner, does not acknowledge that for at least a quarter century, New School presidents have selected commencement speakers in the same manner that I chose Senator McCain. I used my authority correctly and take full responsibility for the results.

That said, I now speak in defense of the behavior of my students – the minority who protested and the majority who did not. On the surface, some of the tactics of the protest were rude, noisy, and disrespectful. Less obvious, however, was the self-restraint that prevented the protestors from behaving in a fashion that would have shut down the commencement or made it impossible for Senator McCain or me to continue. Though many in the audience – including Senator McCain and I – were offended by the heckling, at no time were we in danger of not being able to proceed. By the end of the program, we had awarded five honorary degrees and graduated 2,630 students in The New School’s 70th Commencement ceremony.

More importantly — and also lost in the charges and counter-charges — is this fact: student protests are a necessary and essential part of democratic free expression. Did we not love the brave and disrespectful students at Tiananmen? Did we not applaud the determination of the student led movements that helped bring down the dictators that ruled Eastern Europe in 1991? Have we forgotten the critical difference students made in reversing an unlawful election in Ukraine or in driving the Syrians from Lebanon or who still seethe in discontent under the religious law of Iran’s mullahs?

Thus, when some of the critics of The New School students suggest they should have behaved with more discipline, as did the students at Liberty University, I strongly disagree. Our students were moved by idealism, not arrogance. I may not agree with their conclusions, but I do not begin with the presumption that my age gives me a privileged view of the truth. Quite the contrary – I believe that those of us who are older should keep our ears and hearts open to the possibility that our age may have cost us the most important of human characteristics: the hope for a better, fairer, and more just world.

97. Revisionist - 11 June 2007

I just read that Paul came in second to Romney in a Utah Straw Poll. I dont think I support Paul as president but I think its important that voices like his are heard where ever they come from. but you know I just might vote for him. If he is with me on “80%” who cares about that other 20% . I learnt that on DK. Anyway, It will be interesting to see the pundits and operatives try and down play that. Paul could do much better in the west than people believe.

98. cad - 11 June 2007

boy they are eating themselves up at dk — what with edward’s consultant attacking those who think they “own the big tent” and then sirota and then the trolls and the sockpuppets and purity and kos just can’t handle not getting an iphone til july because he has so much to say…

99. lucidculture - 11 June 2007

That Kos post reminds me of the South Park in which Cartman can’t wait to get the Nintendo Wii… [for those who don’t know it’s the ‘atheism’ episode].

100. missdevore - 11 June 2007

paul comes in second to doublegitmo romney? well the Dems are less looney, but as attractive as melba toast.

101. marisacat - 11 June 2007

New Thread


102. Revisionist - 11 June 2007

Devore, the reason taht poll should be a shocker is that Romney being a Mormon of course swept it. He got 4/5 votes. The 250 left were dived amoung the other old white guys. Paul got 70 followed by Gulliani with 50 something and then McCain with 50 something.

It kind of diffuses the media narrative that Paul is a wackester and in 9th place while McCain is the GOP Golden boy.

CNN fell all over themselves last week trying to prop McCain up. I know I am biased but in all three debates Mccain has come off as a pathetic, out of touch geezer. If I were a winger I’d be all over Huckabee or Rudy. But someone some where seems to want McCain as the front runner and I dont think I have ever seen a poll indicating this. But if you just had to listen to Wolf or Tucker you’d think it was already McCain and Clinton

103. BooHooHooMan - 11 June 2007

Lucid, seriously – what’s not to love? Intelligent, conversant, witty and walks erect—you’re an endangered species my man, an endangered species….The walking erect thing, though, should be used with caution on the first date. For example: Never EVER use Godzilla to press a button in a public elevator.

104. New Fake Name - 11 June 2007

RE: Bob Kerrey’s Phoenix Program exploits as related by Gerhard Klann [good memory MCat]:

“I saw women and children in front of us being hit and cut to pieces. I heard their cries and other voices in the darkness as we made our retreat to the canal.”

This constitutes Kerrey’s sole description of a night in which he and the men he commanded massacred 21 women, children and elderly men.

One of the raiders, Gerhard Klann, offered a far more detailed account of the killings to the Times. He insisted that no shots were fired at the SEALs and there was no “crossfire.” Rather, the Americans rounded up the civilians in the center of the village and massacred them at point-blank range. Vietnamese survivors of the attack have since come forward to confirm Klann’s rather than Kerrey’s version of the raid.

Kerrey is currently touring the country to promote his autobiography, appearing at bookstores and holding radio and television interviews. He has evaded press inquiries on the Vietnamese government statement, but angrily responded to a question posed at a bookstore appearance in Washington DC.

“I pointed out then, and I’m pointing out now, both sides did a lot of damage in the Vietnam War,” he said. “You gotta get beyond it. I’m quite certain the majority of people in Vietnam want to go on with their lives.”

This statement is in line with the concerted efforts by the media and Kerrey’s fellow politicians to squelch the controversy over his participation in the Thanh Phong massacre. The New York Times has not even reported the statement issued by Vietnam denouncing Kerrey as a war criminal.


The raids that Kerrey led during his short stint in the Mekong Delta were part of a secret CIA assassination program known as Operation Phoenix, which sought to exterminate the political leadership of the Vietnamese liberation struggle in the south. Operation Phoenix resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of men, women and children. Targeted in the Thanh Phong raid was the mayor of the hamlet, who was known to sympathize with the National Liberation Front rather than the US-backed regime in Saigon.

105. Sabrina Ballerina - 11 June 2007

Lucid, I second, or third everyone else, go for it. In my admittedly very prejudiced opinion, I think she is a very lucky woman – 🙂

D.Throat, thanks for your posts, always so well researched. At the risk of making any dk lurkers jealous, I met Kerrey in person (along with many of the top Dems through my part-time summer job).

There are only two of the Dems of all those I met, including Hillary, who on a personal level the people I worked with took an instant dislike to, Kerrey was one and Schumer was the other.

So if Kerrey is elected and he votes to attack Iran …all the Boyz will moan that they “did not see it coming”…. comme habitude D. Throat


Lieberman is advocating attacking Iran openly. The PNAC plan goes forward without interruption – Kerrey, a PNAC signatory, gets kos’ endorsement – I ask again, exactly what have the netroots accomplished, other than to moan about pundits who moan about other pundits?

106. marisacat - 11 June 2007

well I think netroots accomplished what they set out to be, a choke point and a reference point for MSM and a set of sites for dissemination of / for “product enhancement”.. pushing the conservative Dems and labeling them “progressive”.

Also forms of online grey mail. I did nto miss that the actual organiser of Roots Camp a few months ago was a BIG BIG BIG Dem side of the fucked bed grey mail guy.

There is jack shit else that they did.

Other than, as I posted relentlessly here, harrass VOTERS.

107. Sabrina Ballerina - 11 June 2007

New Fake Name, thanks for those links, I remember the revelations about Kerrey – what a horror story this is. As for those dk posts, I wonder how many operatives are being let loose in the threads?

Lol, Bhhm, definitely agree with you …. re Lucid that is.

108. Sabrina Ballerina - 11 June 2007

Marisacat, that’s a pretty good synopsis of their accomplishments –

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