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And again… 14 June 2007

Posted by marisacat in Divertissements, France.

L’ombre noire c’est Prunelle, elle ressemble à ça maintenant ma vieille copine… Une ombre… Elle a dix huit ans, son arrière train se bloque de plus en plus souvent, elle est affreusement maigre.

From a very poignant French blog.. the elderly of several cats, Prunelle… 18 in 2005 and on her last little legs so off to the Great Cattery, I am sure.  The blogger describes the photo as a shadow, l’ombre noire, as that is what the cat has become…



1. Madman in the Marketplace - 14 June 2007

A little insight into the character of the Mormon who would be Pretzledent:

Suzan Mazur: But you broke off your friendship with him when you publicly criticized his approach to the abortion issue while he was bishop, specifically his sadistic “counseling” of a 40ish-year-old woman in her sixth pregnancy to give birth, even though her doctor advised her that she’d developed blood clots and that her life was in danger.

Judy Dushku: I sort of naively didn’t think I was breaking off the friendship. I was upset about the position he took. And I wanted it to be clear both privately and publicly how upset I was about that. But I did go up to Mitt after his 1994 Senatorial race to congratulate him for making a respectable showing against Ted Kennedy, whom I had actively supported.

Suzan Mazur: And what did he say?

Judy Dushku: He said I’m so angry at you. I don’t ever want to talk about this again. And I don’t want to talk to you.

And I said, I’m sorry about that Mitt because I thought we could have our political differences and remain at least cordial.

He said – No. That’s not possible.

Suzan Mazur: Bits of this story have appeared elsewhere, but would you recount the story of Bishop Mitt Romney’s counseling of this pregnant woman?

Judy Dushku: It was in the late 1970s. She was a woman about 40 years old, 3 ½ to 4 months into her sixth pregnancy. We’ll call her woman “X”. She was an active member of the ward where Romney was bishop in Massachusetts, at that time in a neighboring community where I was not a member. The stake president was a doctor named Gordon and was an old friend of X.

X and her husband went to the hospital because she had an aching in her leg. Her doctor was alarmed after examining her, telling her she had developed blood clots and could not carry the pregnancy to full term. He said they’d have to give her blood thinners in order to get rid of the clots and that they would endanger the baby.

X had lost her first baby; the child was born with many physical problems and died at two or three weeks old. X was already the mother of four teenage children. This would have been her sixth.

Suzan Mazur: And X and her husband decided they would abort the child because her life was in danger.

Judy Dushku: Yes.

Suzan Mazur: And she advised her bishop – Mitt Romney – that she was going to terminate the pregnancy for medical reasons. And what did he say?

Judy Dushku: First of all the stake president – Gordon – came by to see X with a friend and said well it looks like you have to do this – terminate the pregnancy. He was perfectly comfortable with X’s decision, since both she and the child were in peril. And Gordon was technically higher in the LDS church hierarchy than Mitt was as bishop.

So then Mitt came in to the hospital. X thought Mitt had come to be comforting because that’s what bishops do. They have a pastoral role. But she said that instead he was critical.

He said – What do you think you’re doing?

She said – Well, we have to abort the baby because I have these blood clots.

And he said something to the effect of – Well, why do you get off easy when other women have their babies?

And she said – What are you talking about? This is a life threatening situation.

And he said – Well what about the life of the baby?

And she said – I have four other children and I think it would be really irresponsible to continue the pregnancy.

said she found herself arguing with Romney about her medical crisis, said he was very unsympathetic, very critical, and said that under the circumstances in no way did he condone her aborting the child. And he left.

She was extremely distraught. Talked it over with her husband. They decided to go ahead with the abortion. After that she left the church.

Suzan Mazur: She’s okay now?

Judy Dushku: Yes.

2. marisacat - 14 June 2007

This is just a scream! Going to the wall (such devotion!) over whether poor fuddle duddle Reid called corrupt Pace “incompetent” in a conf call with “liberal bloggers” (but they are not!).

And watch Tentola throw legal terms at mcjoan. As in “best evidence”.

Reid is a garrulous old fool… even when he pops one off he misses. Or apologises, or clarifies or back tracks or or or or or.

And most laughabley, over this nothing, Tentola says Broder is now justified for his garrulous old fool columns.

Mush doggies!

3. Madman in the Marketplace - 14 June 2007

ugly Americans … “A Soldier’s Guide to the Republic of Iraq:

Those are just a few of the surprising passages found while leafing through the booklet, prepared by the Army’s 101st Airborne Division. Here are some excerpts from the “cultural considerations” chapter:

– There is little virtue in a frank exchange. Getting down to business may always occur at a later meeting or a more informal setting such as dinner.

– Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility… if responsibility is accepted and something goes wrong, the Arab is dishonored.

– Arabs operate by personal relations more than by time constraints.

– Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility.

– Arabs do not believe in upward mobility or social status; they gain status by being born in the right family.

– Arabs do not shake hands firmly. If an Arab does not touch you, it usually means that he does not like you.

– It is said that the Arab likes to feel your breath in their face. As you back away, the Arab will continue to shuffle forward. This is known as the “diplomatic shuffle.”

– An Arab sees friendships with anyone outside the family as meaning, “you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours.”

4. marisacat - 14 June 2007

very interesting on romney. as a ’96 quote has surfaced… that ”gov should stay out of it’.

but not big daddy religion.

5. Madman in the Marketplace - 14 June 2007
6. marisacat - 14 June 2007

You know I just cannot imagine asking a FUCKING RELIGION what I should do with my life.

Appalling story on all sides.

7. missdevore - 14 June 2007

I can no longer bear familiarizing myself with the latest BBB crisis. It’s all blurring into what Fox, Broder or Klein said and what an outrage it all is. In the meantime, what are these “Dem partisans” talking about that might actually resonate with a voting populace?

I’ve been reading the articles about the drastic fall in bird populations. But any individual can do at least something about this: cultivate those native plants birds can feed upon!

8. liberalcatnip - 14 June 2007

Darn. I really have to stop posting in old threads and get with the prgram. lol

9. missdevore - 14 June 2007

Golden Kneepad Award–I believe Elise has gotten her first #1 on the reclist with “On Ratings Abuse” It seems it is the longest diary she has ever written. Full of “documentation” of comments relevant to her “case”

The Tell & Ban.

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 14 June 2007
11. missdevore - 14 June 2007

#3 Mitm–I seem to recall in Friedman’s “From Beiruit to Jerusalem” that he characterized the entire ME peoples as “bargainers.” Those Semites!

12. missdevore - 14 June 2007

#8 catnip–je ne comprende pas.

13. liberalcatnip - 14 June 2007

This is just a scream! Going to the wall (such devotion!) over whether poor fuddle duddle Reid called corrupt Pace “incompetent” in a conf call with “liberal bloggers” (but they are not!).

Bumbling bozos of blogdom. And the outrage by Armando about Reid saying Pace was incompetent. WTF is that about? Pace is incompetent. He was Rummy’s sockpuppet who never veered from the script.

And: from kos who obviously had to change the direction of the story with two follow up posts to BarbinMD’s fuckup.

If you want to see how the right-wing noise machine works, compare the freakout over Harry Reid calling the incompetent Gov. Pace “incompetent”, and the, um, nothing that happened after John McCain said this to Gen. Casey:

He’s a governor all of a sudden?

What a circus. Geez. With Mr Big Tent as the ringmaster.

14. liberalcatnip - 14 June 2007

Miss D,
I posted about BarbinMD’s Reid/Pace denial in the last thread by accident and I posted in an old thread here the other nite too. Je suis fatigue. It’s those outsourced brainfarts I’m having on behalf of other people. 😉

15. marisacat - 14 June 2007

What a circus. Geez. With Mr Big Tent as the ringmaster.

must be heat of summer – and too little gin.

Or the reverse.

16. VAGreen - 14 June 2007

“BEWARE the deadly SIPPY CUP!”

Repeat with me the all-purpose excuse for government stupidity, pettiness, and bullying: “September (dramatic pause) 11th (longer and more dramatic pause) changed (even longer and more dramatic pause) EVERYTHING!!!!!!!”

17. New Fake Name - 14 June 2007

MiTM #3:

What a difference 60 years makes:

A Short Guide to Iraq for GI’s (1943)

The greatest generation seems to have been far more aware, sensitive and respectful, on a very basic level, of Iraqi culture than Bush’s Bizzarro World war planners and arrogant neocon ideologue brainiacs.

18. liberalcatnip - 14 June 2007

Mr Vagina seems to think he’s Tony Soprano:

Yes, I killed SYFPH many months ago, but yous guys’ behavior here since then makes it seem that you are all really petulant children rather than grown adults.

I don’t think I need to state the obvious in response to that…

19. Madman in the Marketplace - 14 June 2007


Sensitivity and respect are for the weak, don’tcha know?

20. missdevore - 14 June 2007

#18–I saw that–I think elise gave him venus envy. he thought he was the boss.

21. bayprairie - 14 June 2007

armandipdoh said

It is an embarrassing story for Reid. Frankly, it is an embarrassing story for all of us.

yeah but not for the reason you think, boyo. its embarrassing that the “leadership” of the nutroots gets its talking points from harry, GOP golden boy, reid.

they have to be talking points too, spin dictation. how much strategic thought is really required if one’s plan is to do nothing?

22. marisacat - 14 June 2007

think it was BHHM who mentioned with a center part for his hair, Reid becomes Alfalfa.

Too right!!

23. liberalcatnip - 14 June 2007

Yes, I’d like to know what else Reid said on that conference call. I think the blaghers are just falling all over themselves because they didn’t realize the RW would create a shitstorm over Reid’s commentary on Pace. Now they have to play catch up. (Funny to see mcjoan arguing with Armando in that thread too. Public displays of drama. Oooo.)

24. liberalcatnip - 14 June 2007

Maybe Bigtentocranky is just jealous since he wasn’t invited to participate in the call. Big ego blow that.

25. marisacat - 14 June 2007

they tied their little red wagons to Reid. and the rest.

what a hoot!!

26. ms_xeno - 14 June 2007

Figures. Reid saying poopy things about a Bushie is the closest he ever comes to displaying character, but even that the little broker wannabees can’t stomach because they leap out of their strudel-like skin whenever a Right-winger says “Boo.” So pathetic.

The elected Dems think that they will out-hawk the Republican War Brigade and ride the stolen vehicle to glory. Still, despite that fact that any fool can see it’s an impractical goal– to say nothing of a repugnant one. Meanwhile, their pallid cheering squad thinks it’s going to outmaneuver and someday usurp the clout of FOX and its ilk.

They are well matched. At both levels there is over-reaching and, paradoxically, an ever-accelerating race to the bottom. At both levels there’s this aspiration to be bottom feeders without even the smarts to figure out where the bottom is, or what to eat. Holy Hell.

These people simply cannot gather enough principles to fill up a thimble, which is why they excel at one thing only: Slamming on anybody and everybody who CAN gather them.

Oh, and making money. But that won’t last much longer, if there’s any justice. Kos can go back to building p*rn* sites, which is a much more suitable use for his exceedingly narrow talents. The rest of them can take turns playing Dilbert to his pointy-headed boss act.

What a sorry spectacle.

27. liberalcatnip - 14 June 2007

More fallout from Gitmo: Guantanamo inmate told: You can’t return to UK, you’ve been away too long

Mr Banna was arrested in The Gambia in 2002 with another former Guantanamo detainee, Bisher al-Rawi, who has been freed. The two men had travelled to west Africa to set up a peanut processing plant but were arrested and taken to Afghanistan and Guantanamo after an MI5 tip-off.

The row came as Harriet Harman, the Justice minister and a Brown ally, called for Britain to press for a UN Security Council resolution over Guantanamo.

She told a Labour deputy leadership hustings meeting: “There is no other country in the world that is doing this, other than the US. If it was another country, we would be protesting and we would have a Security Council resolution condemning Guantanamo.”

US military authorities have cleared Mr Banna for release from Guantanamo Bay but John Reid, the Home Secretary, has refused to confirm that he will be allowed to return to Britain when he is freed. Instead, a parliamentary written reply from Liam Byrne, the Immigration minister, cast doubt on Mr Banna’s right to return to Britain. It said: “Mr Banna was recognised as a refugee by the UK in 1997 and was granted indefinite leave to remain in 2000. That leave has now lapsed.”

28. missdevore - 14 June 2007

I was just thinking about how MSOC used to shoot to the top of the reclist at dk with her over-rated rants, and now she is being replaced by someone whose “passion” is about the FAQs.

I scanned one of at least 2 diaries that were pimping fundraisers for dk07–to promote a book with photos from dk06–and one of the enticing examples offered of what you could get in said book–a b/w portrait photo of harry reid.

what a stroke magazine!

29. marisacat - 14 June 2007

Dr Harrison is up in OrangeRotLand.

30. liberalcatnip - 14 June 2007

one of the enticing examples offered of what you could get in said book–a b/w portrait photo of harry reid.

Handy for the dart board or pin the tail on the donkey.

31. missdevore - 14 June 2007

oh and it’s the first anniversary of “top comments” at dk. which was the beginning of the end for me there. It was Carnacki’s-who I had liked-effort to “build community” but it became the province of so many dk posters who became obsessed with their TU status and troll-rating. An EOE for mediocrity. As if they wanted to cement the stereotype for Democrats.

32. missdevore - 14 June 2007

catnip–you read my mind like a cheap tabloid at the czech-out counter.

33. ms_xeno - 14 June 2007

I can’t get orange-trimmed mules (the shoes, I mean) and matching orange feather boas out of my mind. What can I say ? It’s been a long week, and age 41 creeping ever closed and and…

34. Madman in the Marketplace - 14 June 2007

Reid was supposedly a boxer, right?

Not that I competed or anything, or that I was any good, but when my uncle and dad taught me to box, the first rule is to not CRINGE after you throw a punch. You KEEP PUNCHING.

Reid apparently never learned that.

Pathetic, w/ his satin Everlasts pulled up to his wrinkled man-tits, the matching gloves held up high for him to cower behind.

35. ms_xeno - 14 June 2007

The Hamburger Helper mascot would be a better in a boxing match than Reid.

36. missdevore - 14 June 2007

ms_xeno–creeping 41? {kicking with my imaginary mules} It’s 53 for me, approximately at the time the surge will or will not be evaluated.

37. outofwater - 14 June 2007

Looks like SV is so dangerous that they now must speak of her in code.

It’s such a big place.(8+ / 0-)
Recommended by:SarahLee, SallyCat, musicsleuth, vcmvo2, Elise, artofstarving, Rippen Kitten, geomoo
Often people will garner mojo in mojo-rich environments, like C&J, etc.

And can act terribly elsewhere. Like ol’ h-r-h, who managed to sow much trouble before finally, finally going off the deep end enough that people finally “moderated” her into oblivion.

Most of us read only small subsections of the site, so often don’t realize the difficulties stirred up in specific quarters. For one example you mention, I’ve never read a Ron Paul diary so wouldn’t know a Ron Paul troll in another context.

“Every single Democratic candidate is immeasurably better than what we have in the White House now.” – Sen. Joe Biden paraphrased

by Land of Enchantment on Thu Jun 14, 2007 at 05:57:35 PM PDT

[ Parent | Reply to This |Recommend ]

38. ms_xeno - 14 June 2007

MissD, I was told that soy can help dull the effects of –ahem !– certain issues that arise as a woman gets older. Without any Pharma Miracle Toxins involved. So now I only consume my Parisian Macaroons with coffee that has soy milk in it. Better safe than sorry.

Speaking of oldsters kickin’ ass, I love how Scribe is patiently explaining to some dipshit at BTD’s place about why, yes, it is Gummint’s FUCKING JOB to re-regulate the media in order to blunt the destructive effects of FOX and its ilk. Yeesh. Patience is a virtue and all, but PLEASE. Save me from the snot-nosed, snot-brained idjits who think Reagan was philosopher-king of fucking everything, and whose main goal is to do that era all over again, only with DemoReagan this time.

39. moiv - 14 June 2007

It’s 56 for me tomorrow. Celebrating by taking Jasper to the vet.

Hi, ho, halcyon days … that I’ve just about forgotten.

40. outofwater - 14 June 2007

MD-What are “top comments” anyway? Most rated? Who picks?

41. ms_xeno - 14 June 2007

[passes Moiv the macaroons. Soy products optional.]

42. moiv - 14 June 2007

Ooooh, yes, need the soy. 😉

43. missdevore - 14 June 2007

ms-x–I gave a nod to soy but my menopause issues were far less traumatic than adolescent acne. I missed menstruating because I had developed a psychological system for dealing with hormonal flux–a beautiful system that became irrelelvant.

44. missdevore - 14 June 2007

Party for Moiv tomorrow!

And I think there are a few other junebugs here…

and yes I do know how to spell “irrelevant”; I just didn’t want to be a show-off.

45. missdevore - 14 June 2007

must go to section of place where window A/C spreads…..nite VAGS.

46. outofwater - 14 June 2007

Moiv-Happy Birthday, and good luck at the vet.

47. moiv - 14 June 2007

Thanks, everybody. I think it was Kevin who said his burfday was tomorrow, too. We’ll have the first dance.

48. liberalcatnip - 14 June 2007

Bonne fete, moiv!

Are you a virgo too? (What’s your sign? hehe)

49. bayprairie - 14 June 2007

happy birthday to moiv!

50. bayprairie - 14 June 2007

and happy birthday to kevin!

51. bayprairie - 14 June 2007

transcript excerpt of the golden boy spin

REID: Look what this Justice Department has done. And now, with the Surgeon General, we have a man here who has written articles that I think are a little questionable as to in our modern society. He’s a medical doctor. And don’t worry, he’s gonna be looked at very closely.

what? me worry?

52. marisacat - 14 June 2007

bay I laughed at that too… was just at the Greg Sargent post at Marshall’s.

What a laugh. Bitter joke all around.

53. liberalcatnip - 14 June 2007

It must have been “Twist Your Panties In a Bunch” day on the BBBs.

54. bayprairie - 14 June 2007

reid’s getting flack though. based on a really quick read in a few places he was asked specifically if he used the word, and didn’t answer.

so if i read it right reid himself dragged it out, and left the nutroots denying he said it ALMOST TO A FRONT PAGER and then the transcript has hung them all out to dry.

what would be kewl would be to parse the entire transcript.

looked at very closely indeed. be nice to GET OUT IN THE OPEN what the blaggers really do behind closed doors.

and reid also has a leak problem in the blaghhysphere. someone ratted him out to politico.

eggs for everybody!!!! just shove the face right in.

55. liberalcatnip - 14 June 2007

Bonne Fete to you too Kevin!

Cake. We must have cake…

56. marisacat - 14 June 2007

LUV that someone ws an unnamed source for politico.


Sounds like the DP needs a punching boy for the low numbers. I don’t care who they pick as long as there is blood in the streets.


57. brinn - 14 June 2007

aaargh! why do I do it to myself?!

Was reading the comments in Elise’s BS….

re#33 — msX — I promise that 41 is not bad t’all — been at it for 3 months now!


moiv — happy happy b’day to you and it is now! heh (and kevinL as well, if we’ve got the day right…)

kiddo the elder (feels odd calling him that, he’s only 8)’s All Star team made it into the Championship series — Game 1 tomorrow, er tonight…

Go Red!

58. moiv - 14 June 2007

Yea, Go Red!

You gotta be proud of him, Brinn. 🙂

59. liberalcatnip - 14 June 2007

Off to watch In My Country. Nite VAGs!

60. brinn - 14 June 2007

Thanks, moiv! Yeah, I am — his whole team really and the coaches and the parents — it’s been tons of fun!

Hey, lady, as it’s your b’day and all, just want to reiterate that if you ever come to Austin, for whatever reason, and need a place to stay, or want to come by and hang out…..I am here!! I know we will meet someday!

Meanwhile, enjoy yourself and celebrate **YOU**!!

61. moiv - 14 June 2007

I think we will, too. It’s just a matter of time .. and just 245 miles of highway. 😉

62. marisacat - 14 June 2007

LOL search word/s that led to mcat, just since 5 pm today (the 24 hour roll over point for WP)

Search Views

marisacat 9
dia de los muertos 5
iraq war 5
mogadishu 4
dia de los muertos roses 3
Chile vs US 3

dhinmi armando big tent democrat 3

Clear Lake, IA 3

hekebolos marisacat 2

hillary clinton ugly 2

63. brinn - 14 June 2007

The in-laws live up that way — next time we make the trek, I might let you know and see if we might get together…

We’ve been trying to get them to move closer, you know before every damned road in Texas is toll….heh. That’s a rant for another day…

I know why I’m awake at this hour — what’s up on your end? Nothing bad, I hope!

64. brinn - 14 June 2007

Mcat? I’m lost, what was #62 about? I want to LOL too!

65. brinn - 14 June 2007

heee heee LOL and snrt

dunno who this person is, but damn that was a fun read!!!

66. marisacat - 14 June 2007

just over wrought Dkos screen names searching to see if they are mentioned here.. 😉

that’s all.

67. brinn - 14 June 2007

Ah, thanks!

sad, ain’t it?

68. Sabrina Ballerina - 14 June 2007

What’s with Taylordoesn’tmatter? Is it me, or is he seeing things? Lol! I know I was not near a computerat all day today, but from Earth To Meg’s post, he apparently thinks he saw me rec a comment on dk. I checked, but I couldn’t find what he was looking at.

Checked also to see if someone stole my uid from here, but couldn’t find that either. He must be dreaming about us Vags! Lol! Spending 24/7 looking for twolls on the internet is bad for your health. Just check dk for examples!


When will Democrats learn not to talk to the ‘netroots’?? Lol! Everytime they do they have a major problem! Clinton, Edwards and now Reid! Having said that, why is Reid APOLOGIZING ? I’ll have to catch up on the latest debacle.

It’s RULZZZZZ day, once AGAIN, at DK. ‘Ratings Abuse’! While the world burns, this is what the posse at dk finds to be THE most important topic of the day!! They are becoming the laughing stock of the blogosphere, really. They should see the emails circulating about the woman who wrote the diary, the biggest violater of the topic herself.

Ron Paul has them more in a tizzy than the top Republican candidates, the ONLY people he should be hurting!

Skimmed the Rulzzz garbage, lol! The entire dk ‘netroots’ posse is in that rec box for the tip jar. Ever shrinking numbers ….

The woman doesn’t do nuance – I remember several people trying to calm her down once, long, long ago in cyber-time, when she mistook someone joking for seriousness. Everyone tried, to no avail. Just couldn’t think in anything other than black and white. Same thing happened today from what they are saying there. TROLLS!! They’re everywhere!! The American people are TROLLS! They have opinions!

This is what passes for important information on dk. I love when a diary like this hits the rec list over there. It helps continue their slow but inevitable demise.

I bet they all got together to write piece thrash. The real problem is that while THEY get all starry-eyed when a few Reps show up asking for money from the dupes over there, most of the intelligent people are not impressed at all and told them so. So they write a diary to enforce (I’m laughing my head off) CIVILITY towards ‘our Reps’! Hilarious. When I call them on the phone, and I’m sure thousands of others also, I am NOT civil. When they vote to fund this war, they lose the right to expect respect!

As someone said, she and the ever shrinking kos gang can attempt to bash the few hundred people who post there over the head to shut up about Dems, but they better take a look at the real world They cannot influence the millions of people who have just had it with both parties. It is going to overwhelm them.

Oh, and I just wanted to say again, that it was the fact that people like her and the rest of the posse over there, that turned me against the Democratic Party. It cannot be said enough.

They are so effective at turning people away from the Dem Party, that I wonder sometimes if they aren’t rightwing trolls. More than a few people have wondered that on dk.

69. marisacat - 14 June 2007

My guess is Reid has no idea what he said or did or did not say. And the staff is in a dither.

The really amusing part is that somoneone dropped a dime to politico. A week after the conf call… 😉


70. Sabrina Ballerina - 14 June 2007

Go Red! Congrats Brinn, you must be really proud of him!

And Happy Birthday Moiv and is it Kevin’s too? I have to finish reading the threads – if so, Happy Birthday Kevin also.

Good night Catnip …

Some great comments in the last thread, and I forget what I wanted to comment on.

Lucid, thanks for those links (last thread). That Thatcher story is very interesting. His friend being British Specila Ops reminds me of what they use to do in N.Ireland. They infiltrated the IRA and were responsible for many of the bomgings over the years, themselves. Something very fishy about that whole story. And Riggs Bank etc.

71. Sabrina Ballerina - 14 June 2007

#62, Marisacat, are all those listed dk user names? Forgive the stupid question, it’s a been a long day and I’m exhausted!

Btw, Ms X, I loved your #26, I think it was 26! You sure know how to slam those words on the table! Lol!

Miss Devore, ignore Hillary’s text messages. She’s just messin’ witcha

72. cad - 14 June 2007

wow. the kossacks really perceive themselves to be detectives with their increasingly irrational, bizarre, anal, quests for trolls. it’s truly pathological at this point. but it’s also a topdown society there supported by kos who has driven voters away by allowing himself and the grown children to bully the playground. they are the real trolls.

73. lucidculture - 14 June 2007

I’ll get to the rest of the thread in a a second. I feel guilty as hell with the pet sorrow now, but I just had a fantastic date.

[Please don’t mistake me for Elise.]

French neuroscience woman is way cool. We talked about everything from minutiae, to ideals, to work, to politics, to music, to pop culture, to real culture, to romantic idiosynchrasies…

And we made out passiontately on the corner of 1st Ave and 11th St.

It’s the first time in a long while that I’ve gone home with the smell of someone on my hands that makes me yearn to see them. Pheromones, go figure…

[end slightly ecstatic dating experience anecdote]

74. bayprairie - 15 June 2007

What’s with Taylordoesn’tmatter? Is it me, or is he seeing things? Lol! I know I was not near a computerat all day today, but from Earth To Meg’s post, he apparently thinks he saw me rec a comment on dk.

sabrina, i believe he’s hallucinated your sockpuppet.

or perhaps, giving him the benifit of a doubt, his eyesight is simply going badm due to how much time he spends daily staring at that orange screen.

those silly whacks..

don’t they know they’re only supposed to koskomment until they need glasses?

75. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

Oh, Lucid, that’s wonderful news …. especially the ‘making out passionately’ part!

Just kidding, but seriously, really glad it worked out to be so much fun … sounds like you two have a lot in common …

76. cad - 15 June 2007

glad somebody is getting summer lovin’…and somebody nails it in that jaw-dropping OBEY US diary:

I find this diary trollish (0 / 0)

and quite appalling. Elise are you an official of this site? Do you own this site? Are you Kos’s secret policewoman? How the hell do you get to interpret the FAQ, my interpretation and yours may vary, promoting Democrats mean different things to different people.

If your purging the site of heretics continues and is, or becomes the law of the land this site will lose it’s vigor intent and become nothing more then a pack of gibbering monkeys devoid of the ability to debate, disagree, make coalitions, discuss policy and move the party forward not to mention losing our spirit soul.

If we cannot hear differing opinions and ideas and that includes criticism, then we are just an echo chamber of what Elise deems PC and appropriate. I do believe you are becoming the Joe McCarthy of this site. Soon well throw suspected trolls in to see if they float. An ugly ugly diary.

“And if my thought-dreams could be seen They’d probably put my head in a guillotine” Bob Dylan

by shaharazade on Thu Jun 14, 2007 at 11:19:53 PM PDT

77. lucidculture - 15 June 2007

Shaharazade might not last long…

SB – best date in years. We’ll see where it goes…

Must sleep now while still having scent on hands…

78. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

Lol, Lucid, sweet dreams ….

Well, Elise is a nasty, uninformed woman who would be considered a troll on any site not affiliated with dk. She is among the most unpopular people on dk (they rec each other so it’s always the same group) and has been for a long time as she trolled her way to the ‘inside’ of a blog that more and more people are ashamed to say they were ever a member of.

This comment sums it all up. There were others, and many who watch in amusement but don’t bother to comment. Kos approves of these bullies as everyone knows. Being approved of by kos would be a devastating blow to any decent person. I’m proud to say I doubt that would ever happen to me. Lol!

new] The biggest problem with this community… (12+ / 0-)

…is that some people are more interested in being troll police than in proactively discussing policy. You and your fellow troll policemen wasted gazillions of electrons on the famous circumcision diarist (with the result that every one of his ridiculous diaries got 800+ comments, while diaries on real issues dropped off the front page unnoticed). Now that you’ve gotten rid of him, you need another Emmanuel Goldstein figure for your 15 Minutes of Hate fests: luckily for you, there are five or so goofballs on this site who think they’re going to persuade us to vote for Ron Paul (as fucking if…), so now you have another manufactured threat to waste your energies on. The spectacle of you and your buddies, running around like decapitated chickens, screaming that the site is being taken over by right-wing libertarians is truly laughable.

Meanwhile, everyone else is apparently finding your attempts to turn this site into a Democratic Party cheerleading squad (as opposed to a site that supports Democrats–but with open eyes) quite tedious. Don’t believe me: check out how radically Daily Kos’s Alexa ratings have declined over the past few months: http://www.alexa.com/

To be fair, I find your activism diaries to be one of the best things about the site. I wish you would focus on things like that that proactively improve this site, rather than on this counterproductive track of trying to enforce ideological purity in the most unsubtle way.

by StupidAsshole on Thu Jun 14, 2007 at 05:23:28 PM PDT

They spend the majority of their time looking for people to bully. Each time they do it, they lose more Democratic voters.

What made me laugh in the Ron Paul diaries was a quote by kos talking about ‘how we are a big tent’ who can welcome ‘libertarians like Ron Paul! Rotfl!

Kos has not explained his own admiration for Ron Paul. Hilariously funny that they are chasing off voters who like a presidential candidate that the owner of the site has stated his admiration for! I wouldn’t be surprised if he voted for Ron Paul.

And this is why they have so little credibility. . When DHinMi was dumped into hidden comments by the ‘community’, her friends uprated him to get him out. Despite the clear evidence of his outing of another member, he and they tried to convince people they did not see what they saw.

Poor Kestrel is having a breakdown in that diary ….. and helped demonstrate, probably unintentially, the very double standards they are accused of. He was not troll-rate him for his abusive attacks on other commenters, probably would have been uprated him in keeping with the way dk operates. They do this, and then contort themselves trying to explain why they do not do as they tell others to do. And they expect to be taken seriously! Thank god for entertainment, the news is so bad I have to say I appreciate the hilarity of dk every once in a while.

79. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

Well, I just caught up on the Reid debacle. What a bunch of dufuses! McJoan says Harry chose who he wanted to talk to! Lol! Of course he did! Totally co-opted, just like the MSM!

One of my friends is a real journalist. She has her own radio show and has interviewed all of the top Dems, many great journalists, liberal writers etc. She prepares for each interview and they know they will be on the record once they agree to go on the show.

Politicians love to talk, so she has no problem getting them on the air. I did some research for her on the Abramoff affairs and on Hookergate a few months ago when she was interviewing people about the scandals The difference between a professional and these amateurs who are like the gang who couldn’t shoot straight, is like night and day. She does not let them wiggle out of difficult questions, nor does she miss important statements, which she always follows up on.

It’s stunning that they did not take notes, and that they missed that very important statement. The interview should have been taped live. These secret sessions with the same bunch of bloggers each time are ridiculous in terms of what the Internet was supposed to be.

Dk and its affiliates are nothing more than enablers of these politicians. First the lunch, now this. Even with the Politico article, this did not have to be the mess it has become. Amaters acting like amateurs. Politicians who involve themselves with this group always end up having to do damage control!

The blogosphere appears to be in an uproar. Why, is a mystery. Reid should just have said ‘yes, I certainly did call him incompetent’ and then listed all the reasons why. It seems he has admitted it now.

80. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

sabrina, i believe he’s hallucinated your sockpuppet.

or perhaps, giving him the benifit of a doubt, his eyesight is simply going badm due to how much time he spends daily staring at that orange screen.

Lol, looks like he’s seeing things, Bayprairie! Probably had too many windows open, or too many drinks!


Saw the news on Scooter – Judge Walton knows way more than we do about this case. I’m not surprised he has no tolerance for Libby. Heard on the news he received a death threat.

Isn’t he the same judge who gagged Sibel Edmonds? Have to check on that.


Marisacat, you are probably right about Reid. He rambles and from reading the statement, he could have been talking about Gonzales or Pace. He seems to have confirmed it was Pace.

And yes, someone went Politico. McJoan says anyone could have been on the line … if that’s how it happened, whoever it was, was way more alert than the ‘blahhgers’ as they didn’t miss the remark. But since they were so precise, it’s more than likely it was from a recording, and only one person supposedly had a recording.

81. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

way to go lucid! Nothing is sexier than a smart woman …

Since we’re old folks talking about birthdays, when do we move on to comparing prescriptions? 😉

Happy birthday Moiv, Kevin.

82. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

about to head off to work. One last couple of links on my way out the door.


If these are the terrorists we’re fighting, we’ve got a pretty incompetent enemy.

You couldn’t tell that from the press reports, though. “The devastation that would be caused had this plot succeeded is just unthinkable,” U.S. Attorney Roslynn R. Mauskopf said at a news conference, calling it “one of the most chilling plots imaginable.” Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pennsylvania) added, “It had the potential to be another 9/11.”

These people are just as deluded as Defreitas.

The only voice of reason out there seemed to be New York’s Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who said: “There are lots of threats to you in the world. There’s the threat of a heart attack for genetic reasons. You can’t sit there and worry about everything. Get a life…. You have a much greater danger of being hit by lightning than being struck by a terrorist.”

And he was widely excoriated for it. [snip]

ven under the best of circumstances, these are difficult prosecutions. Arresting people before they’ve carried out their plans means trying to prove intent, which rapidly slips into the province of thought crime. Regularly the prosecution uses obtuse religious literature in the defendants’ homes to prove what they believe, and this can result in courtroom debates on Islamic theology. And then there’s the issue of demonstrating a connection between a book on a shelf and an idea in the defendant’s head, as if your reading of this article — or purchasing of my book — proves that you agree with everything I say. (The Atlantic recently published a fascinating article on this.)

I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t have all the facts in any of these cases. None of us do. So let’s have some healthy skepticism. Skepticism when we read about these terrorist masterminds who were poised to kill thousands of people and do incalculable damage. Skepticism when we’re told that their arrest proves that we need to give away our own freedoms and liberties. And skepticism that those arrested are even guilty in the first place.

There is a real threat of terrorism. And while I’m all in favor of the terrorists’ continuing incompetence, I know that some will prove more capable. We need real security that doesn’t require us to guess the tactic or the target: intelligence and investigation — the very things that caught all these terrorist wannabes — and emergency response. But the “war on terror” rhetoric is more politics than rationality. We shouldn’t let the politics of fear make us less safe.

As for more competent terrorists, they’re pretty likely to look more like a Republican voter, a white guy w/ a buzzcut, given the nasty, racist bile that the right has been cultivating. Terrorists like the one who’s crime is commemorated here.

Off to work. Have a good one everybody.

83. BooHooHooMan - 15 June 2007

A pleasant atmospheric occurance was reported last evening along the Southern Jersey coastline. Ravel’s “Bolero” was clearly heard wafting down from New York throughout the summer evening.

84. BooHooHooMan - 15 June 2007

A pleasant atmospheric occurrence was reported last evening along the Southern Jersey coastline. Ravel’s “Bolero” was clearly heard wafting down from New York throughout the summer evening.

85. missdevore - 15 June 2007

BHHM–you can say that again.

86. missdevore - 15 June 2007

via rawstory:

“NEW ORLEANS — The cash-strapped city of New Orleans is turning to foreign countries for help to rebuild as federal hurricane-recovery dollars remain slow to flow.”

87. marisacat - 15 June 2007

oh blahgers went seriously crazy on their tiny island.

The disgusting thing about Reid, and it is evident on his face, is stupidity and greed. Precisely WHY that “group of business men” plucked him from Searchlight NV so long ago for an education at Georgetown.

Some things are easy to figure out. My my even a job as a Capitol Hill cop. PErfect!


Way to go Lucid!


Jesus save me. Friedman is on ABC Morning show lying away. What a meeting of minds. Whatshername who flew west with Nixon and Friedman.

TELL ME AGAIN about how the RW is drying up and blowing away. yeah right! And Friendman gets all girlish and calls himself “liberal” No, really.

They are out in ga ga land. ”All norms are gone with hamas”…oh but we are sane?

I don’t think so.

88. BooHooHooMan - 15 June 2007

On the Reid/ predominately orange Bloggers conference call. Harry needs a guardian in so many ways.

“Loose Lips” McCarter et al.? Yeh, great place to deposit the full advise and consent of the Senate, Harry. Just laughing my ass off at that one. How weak a construct. Yes the bloggers will save us, Harry.

So the idea of an “Opposition” to Fascism in this country is an Imbecile’s Army with bootpolishing and boot licking self-serving blahgers serving an indecisive, ineffective Leadership….

What a god damned clusterfuck.

89. marisacat - 15 June 2007

what goes up, must come down:

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:



Well everyone knew something was wrong when the baby monitor was picking up transmissions…

90. BooHooHooMan - 15 June 2007

Lucid and his date knocked out the god damned SPACE STATION!

91. colleen - 15 June 2007

I just returned from a (brief) read of the orange place, curious to see how they were dealing with the established fact that one of their own has betrayed them and Harry Reid. What a bunch of losers.
Markos has an ad for Ann Coulter. Click on it and you can have Ann’s column sent to your email addy for FREE. I swear to god.

92. marisacat - 15 June 2007

just let colleen out of moderation…


The WP filters are just snagging comments willy nilly.

93. marisacat - 15 June 2007

Just got a fundraising email from the DSCC… signed by the director. A civilian. WOnder if they are too chicken to ahve an elected sign it:

That’s why the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC) – the one and only national organization dedicated to electing more Democrats to the Senate – needs you right now to reach our vital fundraising goal of $500,000 by June 30.

These early days of a campaign are when elections are really won or lost and our Democratic senators know that. That is why they will match every dollar you give before midnight June 30.

not good timing…

94. supervixen - 15 June 2007

Mydear departed cat. He had many nicknames but his formal name was Felix.

He was in his prime in that photo, taken about 10 years ago. He was a big, solid cat. It was so sad to see him wasting away in recent years – going blind and deaf, etc.

Sorry to harp on this, but this loss has hit me harder than expected. Oh well.

I took a brief look at the Fascist Bimbo’s diary and comments, but quickly looked away. What disgusting people! Don’t they have anything better to do? Taylormattd, for one, is unbelievably obsessive.

On the bright side: Lucid, your “hot date” description cheered me up on a very gloomy day! Evidently you’re most desirable 😉 Enjoy.

95. brinn - 15 June 2007

Handsome kitty, SV — sorry for your loss!

96. wozzle - 15 June 2007

Handsome boy, SV, regal. My sympathy.

Marisacat, the photo capping this thread is really compelling.

LC, how many “Get a room!”s did you bag? I remember those days well…

97. wozzle - 15 June 2007

Oh, yeah, and HBD to the june bugs.

98. wozzle - 15 June 2007

Or is that june VAGs?

99. marisacat - 15 June 2007

LOL Just for the cir-cu-lar-ity of it all.

They love to speak of ‘circular firing squads’. As for me, loving this battle over how to parse the words of the numbskull father of 4 lobbyists (that would be Reid and the 4 male kittlepops. All attys too iirc)…

They are all fighting over WHO he meant to call INCOMPETENT. All the while, REID is incompetent.

Can this get funnier??

Take it away Tent-o-rama:

Taylor says “there is no doubt.” I find that to be, well, wrong. As discussed last night, a reading of the transcript leads me to believe that Reid was referencing Alberto Gonzales as “incompetent.” Let’s review the transcript:

I am with oculus… who, as of last night, was pushing for the full transcript. People need to read how inane and phenomenally useless (tho this one did rise to amuse!) those vaunted “Blahger conference calls” are.

100. JJB - 15 June 2007

MCat, no. 6,

You know I just cannot imagine asking a FUCKING RELIGION what I should do with my life.

Neither can I. This moron Romney (apparently a chip off the old blockhead that was his dad) would have had this woman endanger her life and quite possibly deprive her family of a spouse and mother for the sake of an unborn child that very likely would not have lived anyway due to the medication she had to take. Here is the lesson everyone, whatever their religion, should take from that episode:

Judy Dushku: . . . [The woman] was extremely distraught. Talked it over with her husband. They decided to go ahead with the abortion. After that she left the church.
Suzan Mazur: She’s okay now?
Judy Dushku: Yes.

Thanks to MITM for that illuminating story.

101. marisacat - 15 June 2007


fantastic looking cat. And hanging out in the kitchen!


from Bresnahan in politico.com

Geiger said the Politico article did not offer adequate context for Reid’s remarks. “What he said about Pace was not said in the spirit of throwing some rhetorical red meat to a bunch of liberal bloggers by gratuitously bashing Gen. Pace — which is certainly what one could infer from The Politico’s ‘reporting’ on this story,” Geiger wrote.

Several of the bloggers on the call also said they did not remember Reid saying anything about Petraeus, although other sources familiar with the conversation said Reid did make “disparaging remarks” about the Iraq commander.


Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a GOP presidential candidate and strong backer of Bush’s conduct of the war, said Reid “needs to clarify his criticisms, which can only be described as highly inappropriate and regrettable.”

LOVE the last bit. McCain knows that Reid can only get himself re-ensnarled in his own confusion with a “clarification”. Which will somehow morph to an apology.

Geiger, on comment comment. HAHAHHAH.

I don’t know what I said, but whatever it was I take it back. Please see someone called mcjoan for further amplification. Failing that, talk to Tent-O-Rama. I don’t know who these people are but they speak for me.

102. cad - 15 June 2007

so how does ann coulter help elect democrats? does kos know?

these folk represent the neo-libertarian wing of the republican party fer sure.

103. Kevin Lynch - 15 June 2007

Happy Birthday moiv!

I celebrated by getting up at 5:30am to help make chili for the school. Now it’s almost time to go back and take my turn in the Food Factor contest. Yep, gonna eat disgusting food for fame and maybe a Tee shirt 😉

Lucid, good on ya! Now I have to try and track down my own smarty-pants ferrin girl…

Have fun y’all!

104. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

I just had a fantastic date.

[Please don’t mistake me for Elise.]

Just don’t tell us about your fab, sexy, cute shoes. 😉 Good to hear you had such a great time!

Felix was one beautiful boy, SV. You and he were lucky to have each other.

Leaks to Politico, leaks from Townhouse… (did they ever find out who that was?) Maybe they should buy a clue (big sale at The Clue Store(tm) this weekend – buy one get one free) and stop acting like their secret little meetings are going to change the world. Bohemian Grove wannabes.

105. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

From that Politico update:

During a press conference on Thursday afternoon in the Capitol, Reid said he was not alone in his criticism of Pace, and that he had told Pace of his concerns personally.

“Well, first of all, with Gen. Pace, there’s a long line of people who have indicated in various ways that General Pace was not the person to be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.” Reid said. “Peter Pace, I talked to him in my conference room, just him and I, and I told him how I felt, that he had not done a very good job in speaking out for some obvious things that weren’t going right in Iraq. I told him that to his face.”

All of those fucking bloggers/commenters who insisted Reid was talking about Bush in his [Geiger] quote were wrong. Oh how they tried to wiggle out of what Reid really said. It was all so incredibly pathetic! Really. What’s the BFD about Reid calling Pace incompetent? I really don’t get it.

This whole episode has been such an absolute farce. They’ve made themselves look like the right-wing bloggers who post what they claim to be “facts” and who then have to backpeddle 60 miles an hour when they’re proven wrong (and who, even then, still distort and twist what they said to somehow maintain a shred of so-called dignity they can grasp onto).

“Reality-based” community. Riiight. What a joke. And they deserve respect why again?

106. cad - 15 June 2007

reality based community from folk who post endless pix of their kittens and star wars characters. it is to chuckle.

107. JJB - 15 June 2007


Very sorry for your loss. He was a lovely cat. As much as you know it’s necessary, it’s still so hard to have them put down. I’ve had to do that twice in the last 7 years. Still have two cats, one 12 or 13 and mostly sedentary (the rescue agency we adopted her from probably underestimated her age), the other just about 2 and very frisky. My own feeling is the best thing to do is get another as soon as possible. Again, my sympathies.

BushCo. and Israel sure do have a knack for turning bad to worse:

As a calm settled over Gaza following five days of fighting in which Hamas completed its conquest of the Gaza Strip from its Fatah rivals, Palestinian leaders began to focus on the political aftermath.

President Mahmoud Abbas started the process of forming an emergency government in the West Bank city of Ramallah, choosing Salam Fayyad, a political independent, to take the lead as prime minister, according to several reports. He was finance minister in the Hamas-led unity government that Mr. Abbas dismissed on Thursday.

It was not clear that Mr. Abbas had the power to govern both the West Bank and Gaza territories.

“Prime Minister Haniya remains the head of the government even if it was dissolved by the president,” Sami Abu Zuhri, a Hamas spokesman in Gaza, said. ‘’In practical terms, these decisions are worthless.”

Even Mr. Abbas’ supporters were dubious. “An emergency government would be meaningless here,” said Mkhaimar Abusada, a political scientist at the Fatah-affiliated Al Azhar University in Gaza. “It wouldn’t be able to do anything. Hamas is everywhere. That’s the bottom line.”

Hamas released 10 senior Fatah leaders detained in the Gaza fighting and announced a prisoner amnesty plan, according to wire reports. Other Fatah leaders — close to 100, according to The Associated Press — arrived in Egypt today after fleeing the Gaza fighting on a fishing boat. On the diplomatic front, the so-called quartet of Middle East peace negotiators — the United States, Russia, the United Nations and the European Union — planned talks today on boosting Mr. Abbas.

There’s a Spanish proverb that goes something like this: “Raise crows, and they will pluck out your eyes.” Israel nurtured Hamas as a foil to Fatah, thinking it would be easy to manipulate I suppose, or maybe they didn’t bother to think ahead, just did it as a short-term, short-sighted scheme to undercut Fatah and Arafat, figuring they’d deal with the future ramifications when the future became the present. In recent years, they’ve also been doing all they can to promote Fatah at the expense of Hamas, encouraging internecine fighting in the hopes of provoking a civil war that would neuter both groups. Well, they sure got that wrong, didn’t they? Now Hamas is completely in control of Gaza, and after having been driven out of there, how likely is it that West Bank Palestinians will remain faithful to Fatah, a compromised and apparently toothless entity? Check out accompanying story:

Bush administration officials said Thursday that they had been discussing the idea of largely acquiescing in the takeover of Gaza by the militant Islamic group Hamas and trying instead to help the Fatah party of the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, retain its stronghold in the West Bank.

The United States had quietly encouraged Mr. Abbas to dissolve the Palestinian government and dismiss Prime Minister Ismail Haniya, steps that Mr. Abbas announced Thursday, administration officials said. Before the announcement, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Mr. Abbas to reiterate American support for the move, they said.

“President Abbas has exercised his lawful authority as the president of the Palestinian Authority, as the leader of the Palestinian people,” Ms. Rice said. “We fully support him and his decision to try and end this crisis of the Palestinian people and to give them an opportunity for — to return to peace and a better future.”

The state of emergency that Mr. Abbas announced has underscored the widening rift separating Gaza, where Hamas has largely routed Fatah’s forces, and the West Bank, where Mr. Abbas still has a strong base. But diplomats and Middle East experts said a “West Bank first” strategy might now be the last option for Ms. Rice to salvage something from her plans to push for an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal.

The State Department insisted that the United States had no plans to abandon Palestinians living in Gaza.

Many diplomats and Middle East experts said they read Mr. Abbas’s decision as an attempt to cut his losses in Gaza and consolidate power in the West Bank. Israeli officials are promoting a proposal that the West Bank and Gaza be viewed as separate entities, and that Israel act more forcefully in Gaza to crack down on Hamas militants.

Senior Bush administration officials said no decision had been made. Some State Department officials argue that the administration could only support such a separation if Israel agreed to make political concessions to Mr. Abbas in the West Bank, with the goal of undermining Hamas in the eyes of Palestinians by improving life in the West Bank.

But it would be diplomatically perilous for the United States to be seen as turning its back on Gaza. Almost half of the Palestinian population lives on the teeming strip of land. A more desperate Gaza could become a breeding ground for Al Qaeda.

Compared to Condeleeza Rice, Dean Rusk was a combination of Metternich and Bismark.

108. marisacat - 15 June 2007

New Thread


109. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

Israeli officials are promoting a proposal that the West Bank and Gaza be viewed as separate entities, and that Israel act more forcefully in Gaza to crack down on Hamas militants.

And by doing so, they can excuse the killing of innocent civilians when they bombard the place to smitherines.

I saw a clip of Condi talking while she was unconsciously rubbing her hands – a signal to me, at least, that she’s pretty damn nervous about the mess she’s created.

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