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“I like this violence” 15 June 2007

Posted by marisacat in DC Politics, Israel/AIPAC, WAR!.


Landed on this at a good aggregate for articles on the wars:

“I like this violence”

By Paul Woodward, War in Context, June 13, 2007

It is often assumed that “men of violence” always wear masks and brandish weapons, but those who stand on the sidelines and cheer the fight are also men of violence, none more so than Assistant Secretary of State and US Envoy to the Middle East, David Welch.

“I like the violence” — these were Welch’s words when fighting erupted between Hamas and Fatah in Gaza earlier this year. Welch may be in a less celebratory mood right now, but not because the violence is worse — simply because his side (a small faction inside Fatah) is losing.

The fact that the Bush administration has been instrumental in trying to foment a Palestinian civil war has been clearly documented by Conflicts Forum, but since the press in Washington has been too timid to dig in to this story, it has largely been ignored.  ::snip::


From a round up piece at E Intifada:

[B]oth leaderships are hemmed in. Abbas appears to be entirely dependent on foreign and Israeli support and unable to take decisions independent of a corrupt, self-serving clique. Hamas, whatever intentions it has is likely to find itself under an even tighter siege in Gaza.

Abbas, backed by Israel and the US, has called for a multinational force in Gaza. Hamas has rejected this, saying it would be viewed as an “occupying force.” Indeed, they have reason to be suspicious: for decades Israel and the US blocked calls for an international protection force for Palestinians. The multinational force, Hamas fears, would not be there to protect Palestinians from their Israeli occupiers, but to perform the proxy role of protecting Israel’s interests that Dahlan’s forces are longer able to carry out and to counter the resistance — just as the multinational force was supposed to do in Lebanon after the July 2006 war.

Wise leaders in Israel and the United States would recognize that Hamas is not a passing phenomenon, and that they can never create puppet leaders who will be able to compete against a popular resistance movement. But there are no signs of wisdom: the US has now asked Israel to “loosen its grip” in the West Bank to try to give Abbas a boost. Although the Bush doctrine has suffered a blow, the Palestinian people have not won any great victory. The sordid game at their expense continues.

   armed palestinian women, a show of force during the asault on Lebanon, July 18, 2006
Armed Palestinian women, a show of force in GAZA during the assault on Lebanon, July 18, 2006

Angry Arab:

Do you still wonder whether there is a conspiracy? This is from an editorial of by the New York Times:

“Obviously, there can be no final peace agreement until Hamas either changes its policies or is chased from power.”


 hmmm.  We probably have to respect elections (and work for clean ones) at home, before we ever respect elections elsewhere.

It is all part of a whole.


A long comment from JJB, near the close of the previous thread, so moving it forward:

BushCo. and Israel sure do have a knack for turning bad to worse:

As a calm settled over Gaza following five days of fighting in which Hamas completed its conquest of the Gaza Strip from its Fatah rivals, Palestinian leaders began to focus on the political aftermath.

President Mahmoud Abbas started the process of forming an emergency government in the West Bank city of Ramallah, choosing Salam Fayyad, a political independent, to take the lead as prime minister, according to several reports. He was finance minister in the Hamas-led unity government that Mr. Abbas dismissed on Thursday.

It was not clear that Mr. Abbas had the power to govern both the West Bank and Gaza territories.

“Prime Minister Haniya remains the head of the government even if it was dissolved by the president,” Sami Abu Zuhri, a Hamas spokesman in Gaza, said. ‘’In practical terms, these decisions are worthless.”

Even Mr. Abbas’ supporters were dubious. “An emergency government would be meaningless here,” said Mkhaimar Abusada, a political scientist at the Fatah-affiliated Al Azhar University in Gaza. “It wouldn’t be able to do anything. Hamas is everywhere. That’s the bottom line.”

Hamas released 10 senior Fatah leaders detained in the Gaza fighting and announced a prisoner amnesty plan, according to wire reports. Other Fatah leaders — close to 100, according to The Associated Press — arrived in Egypt today after fleeing the Gaza fighting on a fishing boat. On the diplomatic front, the so-called quartet of Middle East peace negotiators — the United States, Russia, the United Nations and the European Union — planned talks today on boosting Mr. Abbas.

There’s a Spanish proverb that goes something like this: “Raise crows, and they will pluck out your eyes.” Israel nurtured Hamas as a foil to Fatah, thinking it would be easy to manipulate I suppose, or maybe they didn’t bother to think ahead, just did it as a short-term, short-sighted scheme to undercut Fatah and Arafat, figuring they’d deal with the future ramifications when the future became the present. In recent years, they’ve also been doing all they can to promote Fatah at the expense of Hamas, encouraging internecine fighting in the hopes of provoking a civil war that would neuter both groups. Well, they sure got that wrong, didn’t they? Now Hamas is completely in control of Gaza, and after having been driven out of there, how likely is it that West Bank Palestinians will remain faithful to Fatah, a compromised and apparently toothless entity?

Check out accompanying story:

Bush administration officials said Thursday that they had been discussing the idea of largely acquiescing in the takeover of Gaza by the militant Islamic group Hamas and trying instead to help the Fatah party of the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, retain its stronghold in the West Bank.

The United States had quietly encouraged Mr. Abbas to dissolve the Palestinian government and dismiss Prime Minister Ismail Haniya, steps that Mr. Abbas announced Thursday, administration officials said. Before the announcement, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Mr. Abbas to reiterate American support for the move, they said.

“President Abbas has exercised his lawful authority as the president of the Palestinian Authority, as the leader of the Palestinian people,” Ms. Rice said. “We fully support him and his decision to try and end this crisis of the Palestinian people and to give them an opportunity for — to return to peace and a better future.”

The state of emergency that Mr. Abbas announced has underscored the widening rift separating Gaza, where Hamas has largely routed Fatah’s forces, and the West Bank, where Mr. Abbas still has a strong base.

But diplomats and Middle East experts said a “West Bank first” strategy might now be the last option for Ms. Rice to salvage something from her plans to push for an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal.

The State Department insisted that the United States had no plans to abandon Palestinians living in Gaza.

Many diplomats and Middle East experts said they read Mr. Abbas’s decision as an attempt to cut his losses in Gaza and consolidate power in the West Bank. Israeli officials are promoting a proposal that the West Bank and Gaza be viewed as separate entities, and that Israel act more forcefully in Gaza to crack down on Hamas militants.

Senior Bush administration officials said no decision had been made. Some State Department officials argue that the administration could only support such a separation if Israel agreed to make political concessions to Mr. Abbas in the West Bank, with the goal of undermining Hamas in the eyes of Palestinians by improving life in the West Bank.

But it would be diplomatically perilous for the United States to be seen as turning its back on Gaza. Almost half of the Palestinian population lives on the teeming strip of land. A more desperate Gaza could become a breeding ground for Al Qaeda.

Compared to Condeleeza Rice, Dean Rusk was a combination of Metternich and Bismark.


In memorium… a star of a cat:

SV’s Felix in his prime…



1. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

I assume the Dem Israel supporters/AIPAC shills – Hillary, Edwards, Obama, Feingold, Schumer et al – have issued “appropriate” statements?

I also assume we’ll be seeing many more of these types of news reports now that Israel has basically declared open season on Gaza:

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Palestinian security officials said an Israeli tank shell killed six people — including five children — in the southern Gaza Strip town of Rafah on Thursday, but the Israeli military denied there was any army fire in the area.

Hamas security officials initially reported that four children were killed, but hospital officials said five children from the Abu Matrok family, all under 16, had died.

Fatah security officials said the children were in a car with an adult driver, who was also killed.

collateral damage

2. ms_xeno - 15 June 2007

JJB wonders in the last thread about the ease in which scum-suckers like Romney can tell a woman to die for HIS principles. Well, it’s a no-brainer. Every fetus is pwecious, but every woman is interchangeable. Expendable. If she dies saving the precious fetus, her husband can just go get another fetus-generator for himself and the kids. What’s the problem ?

Join us next time when we explain why Jeebus loves school re-segregation and shooting at Mexicans. :p

3. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

Via Chris Floyd – a quote from Conflict Forums (which I found when googling for that ridiculous quote by Welch – who the hell is that guy??)

Deputy National Security Advisor, Elliott Abrams — who Newsweek recently described as “the last neocon standing” — has had it about for some months now that the U.S. is not only not interested in dealing with Hamas, it is working to ensure its failure. In the immediate aftermath of the Hamas elections, last January [2006], Abrams greeted a group of Palestinian businessmen in his White House office with talk of a “hard coup” against the newly-elected Hamas government — the violent overthrow of their leadership with arms supplied by the United States. While the businessmen were shocked, Abrams was adamant — the U.S. had to support Fatah with guns, ammunition and training, so that they could fight Hamas for control of the Palestinian government…

The Abrams program was initially conceived in February of 2006 by a group of White House officials who wanted to shape a coherent and tough response to the Hamas electoral victory of January…Since at least August [2006], Rice, Abrams and U.S. envoy David Welch have been its primary advocates and the program has been subsumed as a “part of the State Department’s Middle East initiative.”

4. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

And, of course, there’s absolutely nothing about this on the FP or in the rec diaries at dkos. It’s too “controversial” and it might upset poor Hunter, obviously.

5. D. Throat - 15 June 2007

Well all the brouhaha about Reid is even worse than imagined.

The decision to drop Pace has fed the political debate in Washington over the Iraq war. On Thursday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid caused a stir when he said Pace had failed in his job of providing Congress a candid assessment on the war. Democrats typically have shied from stinging comments about military officers, instead focusing criticism on Bush and administration policies in Iraq.

It is evident that Reid was trying to cover this administrations ass… by poisoning the bloggy waters against Pace. This is exactly what I was referring to the other day as to why Powell never “ran to the Dems for cover”… to no surprise he would have just found MORE GOPer in Dem clothing…. like Pace just found out… no shelter from the neocon storm in either party.

Now it makes sense why some one “dropped the dime” on Reid’s backstabbing. I guess it hasn’t occurred to the Democrats that even the military doesn’t believe in the war.

I guess it has gone unnoticed to Reid this revolving door in Iraq…. Pace is what the 4th … 5th general to have been replaced when reality encroaches too much on the fantasy.

The only “wrong impression” the Dems gave is that they wanted to end the war… not that they couldn’t.

They don’t want to PERIOD… as proof as the blogger for hire Kos touting a verifiable neocon Kerrey… not only do the Dem NOT want to end the war … but this last little “tell” is a sure fire signal that the DEMS WANT TO ATTACK IRAN.

6. wozzle - 15 June 2007

Interesting new diary at dk – wonder if it’ll generate any controversy – gee, ya THINK?

7. marisacat - 15 June 2007

Welch is one of those guys to watch. he was in the North of Lebanon a week before the explosion of violence at the Palestinian refugee camp there…

SO clear what is happening.

WIDE and ever wider war. Now the word is that with the rise of an Islamist regime in GAZA that soon will come Al Qaeda.

Well in a tiny space you have a Zionist regime. So, now a rise of islam. ONe way or the other…

Why be surprised.

ANY insurgent, break away, nationalist battle will be “terrorists”.. unless it suits us, like all the versions of the “orange revolution”.

I have a TOO TOO cute pic of Hillary, Lieberman and Mccain all wearing orange neck scarvs in support.

8. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

#6. Obviously, eugene just needs to “buck up”. Didn’t he get the memo? “Ideology” is for lusers. As for Bowers, he’s a day late and a dollar short – or maybe he just needs a date.

I started blogging on MyDD at a time in my life when little else was going well. My academic career was in the toilet, and the thought of further teaching was literally giving me nightmares. Financially, I was so badly off, that I thought I was going to have to move out of my apartment. I had gone on exactly one date in the previous fourteen months. Considering the situation I was in, when Jerome gave me this chance, I latched onto the site and worked on building it up as though my life depended on it. In some ways, maybe it did.

Oh, and don’t miss the list of his greatest hits! Posts for the ages, no doubt.

9. marisacat - 15 June 2007

From eugene’s diary… (see link at wozzle, #6)

The liberal blogosphere needs to change, dramatically, its aims and orientation.


It’s not liberal. Repeat after me….

It’s not liberal.


10. missdevore - 15 June 2007

#8–Love this bit of mythical history:

“By the summer of 2004 the site’s tone had shifted. The Kerry campaign and Fahrenheit 9/11 had made it acceptable to publicly voice dissent again, and as a result thousands flocked to dKos.”

Kerry couldn’t even voice dissent.

11. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

Cheesecake for the birthday VAGS. (I’m not singing the damn song though.)

12. JJB - 15 June 2007


Keep in mind, Chris Floyd was banned at Little Orange Footballs, over some ridiculous charge that he and one of his associates were using their UIDs for sockpuppet purposes. Floyd and the other person (can’t remember the name) accidentally posted identical diaries, IIRC, both were in the habit of cross-posting material from Empire Burlesque at dKos, and as it happened they put up the same piece a few hours apart. The mistake was logically explained, but they banned the both of them anyway. Floyd had already ruffled the feathers of a few simpleminded Kossack biggies, so it was really just an excuse rather than a cause.

A Sunni mosque has been destroyed in Basra:

A powerful explosion that reduced a large Sunni Arab mosque to rubble in the southern city of Basra this morning signaled that the cycle of revenge violence following the destruction of the Shiite shrine in Samarra has not entirely unfolded.

Although there had been scattered reprisal attacks on Sunni shrines on Wednesday and early Thursday in the hours after the Samarra shrine’s minarets were demolished, strenuous calls for restraint by political and religious figures as well as strict security measures appeared to halt broader violence.

That contrasted with the spate of violence a year ago when 15 people were killed in the immediate aftermath of the destruction of the shrine’s golden dome and three imams were killed and a fourth kidnapped. That set off a cycle of sectarian attacks that has yet to stop.

However, it could be that this time, the worst violence occurs once curfews are lifted in Baghdad and elsewhere over the weekend and, that much like last year, the cycle of reprisal killings will unwind over weeks and months. “We won’t see so much right away,” predicted an official in the office of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, “It will come later.”

Now, as I recall, when the golden dome of the Samarra shrine was destroyed last year, that “immediate aftermath” now said to be so horrible was considered to be small potatoes, and a huge collective sigh of relief was heard throughout the MSM. I guess they figured the Shiite retaliation would consist of armed mobs of hundreds of thousands of people descending on Sunni neighborhoods, pillaging, killing, etc. rather than the more calibrated and cold-blooded militia actions that have followed. It took several weeks (at least) for it to become obvious that the civil conflict had reached a new and deadlier stage. I guess it’s asking too much for them to recognize the obvious, i.e., that matters are completely out of control over there and the violence is only going to escalate.

13. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

#10. Not to mention the fact that SYFPH squashed any dissent about Kerry.

14. marisacat - 15 June 2007

why… he sounds like Kid O.

Words are just so fucking cheap:

Finally, this requires us to become activists. It’s been a tough couple decades for activism. Locked in an increasingly obsolete 1960s paradigm, progressive activism has not yet caught up with the reality of where most Americans are at. Happily we are best positioned to help provide those solutions. We must become organizers and activists again. We must reach beyond our comfort zones and our blog niches to engage others who are essential to our political movement. We must speak with the poor. With people of color. With those in rural areas and in inner cities and in suburbs. We must be willing to take our message to anyone who will listen.

A cheap blurberation. “we must speak with the poor”. what presumption…

Hon, what if they don’t want to speak to YOU?

15. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

Maybe Bowers is going on an evangelizing road trip to start his cherished revolution. Che Bowers?

16. JJB - 15 June 2007


Thanks for the FP promotion. Now if only I had the power to ban people!

17. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

D. Throat, interesting perspective on this whole mess. So it’s possible that Reid was using the blahhgers to criticize Pace? Giving cover to Bush is certainly what they’ve been doing all along. I think it’s obvious now that they do not intend to end this war and all bills they submitted were game-playing.

But the blahhgers missed the most important statement he made re Pace, so someone goes to Politico to make sure it gets out? Could be …

Dk is there for them to use, that’s for sure …. I don’t get why they think that using DK will benefit them in anyway since DK has no influence anymore over what people think.

It really is funny to see the blahgers try to help Reid out of what they thought was a jam, and he goes ahead and undermines them completely.

That’s what happens when you become a dupe of politicians which is why the Internet was never supposed to fall into that trap! Dk, a complete and utter mess! Really, they should just fold it up, or admit they are just the propaganda ‘catapult’ for the Dems same as Freerepublic is for the Repubs.

Daily Kos/Freerepublic/Redstate – catapulting the propaganda

18. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

lol…I’ve never read this blog before which I found when I was looking for Bowers’ little revolution post. Hilarious.

19. JJB - 15 June 2007

MCat, no. 14

That stuff you quote sounds so stilted it could be a Babelfish translation.

It doesn’t seem to occur to these idiots that in order to meet people, you have to turn off the computer, leave your house and, you know, meet people. And once you do that, it helps if you listen to what they have to say and not tell them to shut up and follow orders.

20. brinn - 15 June 2007

re#13 — “take our message to anyone who will listen” — what an ass!

How’s about you shutting the fuck up for once, Mr. Bowers, and listening to something other than your own vainglorious blather?!?!

That the one main thing I destest about the internet, you can’t fucking smack anybody.

social justice my ass.

21. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

rofl. Enlarge the screenshot. Priceless.

22. wozzle - 15 June 2007

Shorter Bowelie Boy – “Become a political consultant, it shore beats workin'”. I like it.

23. D. Throat - 15 June 2007

Armando, EMSOCK, Bowers, Stoller and Eugene…Controlled Dissent and guided turn to the “left”

Same old story and same MO…. this is exactly what Simon Rosenberg did when he harnessed Armstrong and Kos and steered the untamed blogosphere to the extreme right… all in the name of “progressivism”…. now the next faux generation of faux progressive bloggers…. and so on and so on and so on.

Let’s not forget that Bowers used to be Lieberman’s number one unabashed cheerleader. They beaten this horse to death … now the Boyz are on to greener pastures where they can start their con all over again.

Frankly, I am smelling a sell off…. talk about killing the hen that laid the golden eggs…. Kos not only killed his “porgressive” blog… then he plucked it and boiled it till there was nothing left. DK is now nothing but a shell propping up pathetic Dems like Reid and touting for neocons and Republicans like Arnold….TIME TO SELL.

Hiliary and Obama did not come running begging Kos to buy ads… if he wants to salvage anything he has to sell before the elections while the site still has earnings potential… afterwards if it is still in Kos’s hands it will sink like a rock… people have seen thru the facade to the tiny little man behind the curtain playing the 80,000 dollar piano.

Armando, EMSOCK… now Bowers and Stoller are just jumping ship before the handover… as I can see they all were given parachutes. They are all good at what they do “conning people” therefore they will always be in demand… which is why Trippi plucked Armstrong during his stock conning days… to become a political conman… no difference.

Armando, Bowers and Stoller have years more of conning ahead of them…

24. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

It doesn’t seem to occur to these idiots that in order to meet people, you have to turn off the computer, leave your house and, you know, meet people.

Pssst…that does not apply to Elise. Riots would ensue. Fab schoolhouse rulers would be flying everywhere as she tried to defend herself against the unruly mobs and she would be dragged off screaming “Read the FAQs! Read the FAQs!”

25. marisacat - 15 June 2007

119 JJB

right, so stilted. They long ago became rote propagandists.

The hilarious thing is that eugene – who the Boyz long ago fingered as one to speak for the wimmens (like Kid O and a few others) – did an anti rural post at LSF long ago. It was breathlessly reactionary and dismissive of rural enclaves just outside … hmmm Seattle iirc. Kings Co, again iirc.

Will see if I can find it. I instantly contacted em dash (“editor” at LSF then) and suggested that a excellent long reply comment from a Kings Co resident be expanded and put on the FP. His post was so very unpleasant.

And you know, just ignant.

And god knows I am not rural.

26. outofwater - 15 June 2007

Bunches of feminists there. Maybe the site will morph into the porn business Markos started in the first place.

Oh yeah, it already has.

27. bayprairie - 15 June 2007

sabrina said in the last thread

Politicians love to talk, so she has no problem getting them on the air.

yeah. that reminds me of something i read recently during the imus thing by Tim Noah speaking about the politican’s desire for access to radio or tv time. Noah used a wonderful washington anecdote on the politicians’ love of a free meal to riff into their desire for video/audio time in the media.

the anecdote is credited to perle mesta. and perle’s famous advice about how to draw Washington’s power set to a soiree was:

“Hang a lamb chop in the window.”

i think there’s a great deal of chop hanging going on between GOP golden boy harry reid and the netroots FPers. reid has his little chops of “politician proximity” dangling and the netroots has little spinability and an audience chops. i sit here and laugh and can’t help but think of perle.

here’s a little bio on her.

Perle Skirvin Mesta (October 12, 1889 – March 16, 1975) was an American society figure, political hostess, and U.S. ambassador to Luxembourg (1949-1953).

Mesta was known as the “hostess with the mostes [sic]” for her lavish parties featuring the brightest stars of Washington, D.C., society, including artists, entertainers and many top-level national political figures.

She was born Pearl Skirvin, in Sturgis, Michigan, a daughter of William Balser Skirvin, an original 89er who became a wealthy Oklahoma oilman and founder of the Skirvin Hotel. Her younger sister was a silent-film actress, Marguerite Skirvin (1896-1963). She married steel manufacturer and engineer George Mesta in 1916, but was widowed in 1925; she was the only heir to his $78 million fortune.[1] Mesta settled in Newport, Rhode Island, but moved to Washington D.C., in 1940. Four years later, Mesta changed the spelling of her first name to Perle.[2]

She was active in the National Woman’s Party and was an early supporter of an Equal Rights Amendment. She switched to the Democratic Party in 1940 and was an early supporter of Harry Truman, who rewarded her with the ambassadorship to Luxembourg where she launched the Nordstrom Sisters.

But Mesta is most noted for her parties, which brought together senators, congressmen, cabinet secretaries, and other luminaries in bipartisan soirées of high-class glamour. Invitation to a Mesta party was a sure sign that one had reached the inner circle of Washington political society…

reid and his phonemates arent in perle’s class. pork chops is all “they got”.

28. marisacat - 15 June 2007

This is the HuffPo bio for one of the new partners with Bowers, Mike Lux.

I hate to be cynical, but to be otherwise is just too time consuming:

Who will they be in the bag for? And how soon will it show?

29. marisacat - 15 June 2007

I found eugene’s Opus Mopus on rural “whining”:

The cognitive dissonance of rural voters is shocking. The greed and selfishness is amazing. They whine more often than a four year old.

Maybe that’s a bit harsh. But until someone explains to me how exactly it is we are supposed to bridge the urban/rural divide, when the rural voters – many of whom are simply transplanted urbanites in search of a cheap investment – aren’t making sense, I think I’d rather build up my strength in the cities and battle over the suburbs.

This isn’t to say we should write off the red states, or red state Democrats. I’m not that far gone. But we must be realistic about the challenges we face in rebuilding rural support. It’s not just a matter of going down and talking to them (though that’d probably help). The economics are compelling and yet not easily solved. And sometimes when you try and talk to someone, they simply don’t listen.

The property rights rebellion matters, and it bears watching.

Don’t miss badger at # 7 and # 11 – or Izzy at # 10 comments (they also have comments further on at 21 and 24, too)

30. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

Who will they be in the bag for? And how soon will it show?

My guess is Hillary. And frankly I don’t think this is about “ideology”. I think Bowers just found a way to make more money without having to break down and get a real job.

Bunches of feminists there. Maybe the site will morph into the porn business Markos started in the first place.

I dare someone to post a penis pic over there just to see what happens.

31. cad - 15 June 2007

“Locked in an increasingly obsolete 1960s paradigm…”

right , because the civil rights marches sit ins and protests did nothing. if only those dirty hippies had a computer so they could silently blog their complaints.

i realized that kos was a fraud the day he posted his diary blowing off the protests in washington , smugly dismissing people who died on their feet in protest to favor his reality based community of action heroes who stayed inside all day and checked email. and hunted twolls who disrupt the otherwise lucid stream of thought at dk…

32. brinn - 15 June 2007

hey, VAGs!!

Send all good energies (no prayers, please) to the Red All-Star Team (coach pitch 7-8 year olds) of District 11 — Game 1 of the Championship Series **TONIGHT**!!

I’m off…to pick up kidlets and head waaaay south before the Friday afternoon traffic gets really horrific ….

moiv, Kevin — hope ya’ll had the best birthday days EVER (well, at least until next year) ….


33. missdevore - 15 June 2007

30- catnip–should I email you my testicle bouquet piccture?

34. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007
35. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

I think you’re having too much damn fun, Brinn. Stop that!


36. marisacat - 15 June 2007

the Boyz feel so diminished by “the 60s”. All this inchoate yearning for “a movement”.

If America has saints (and iirc JPII or some minion said America was not capable of producing saints) they are there, in the Civil Rights era.

All the deaths. Horrific brutal deaths, decades of deaths, centuries of murder and assassination and lynching.

37. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

catnip–should I email you my testicle bouquet piccture?

Ha! With the caption: Where the Dems left their balls.

38. missdevore - 15 June 2007

I emailed it. I specifically asked her if I could use it when I was still at dk. My plan was to insert it whenever someone posted “Dems need balls”, etc. diaries or comments. But now I go to sites where people don’t talk like that. Well, I used it at BMT twice.

39. cad - 15 June 2007

the core reason folks like kos and the boyz hate the 60’s is because they hate the concept they can’t profit off the movement. simple.

40. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

None of the boyz were even alive during the 60s! They’re just clueless. You can only learn so much from a history book.

I like Philip Slater’s take on this. (And yes, he was alive then.)


I’ve been impressed lately with how poorly people today understand the sixties. To the media, of course, the decade was just about wearing funny clothes and long hair, taking drugs and protesting. It came and went, like all fashions. Because that’s what the media are about—fashions, surfaces, fads. They can’t deal with long-term trends—they’re too busy with the moment. Long-term to them is a few months.

Many of my friends, on the other hand, absurdly idealize the sixties and compare it favorably with the present. They seem to have forgotten that in the sixties what we think of as a red state mentality characterized virtually the entire nation. The sixties innovators were long on visibility but short on numbers. It’s important to remember that after all the huge marches and protests between 1969 and 1971, Nixon won the 1972 election in a landslide. Not in a close, probably stolen election, but in a landslide. It’s important to keep things in perspective.

The sixties were after all just a beginning. And while beginnings are fun and fascinating and exciting, they only become significant if what has begun continues to grow. And in this, most important sense, the sixties never ended. Did Jim Crow return to the South? Did blacks disappear from TV? Did women go back in the kitchen and stop going to professional schools? Did sex become taboo in the media and people start having to pretend they were married to live together or have children? Did interest in New Age ideas, alternative medicine, and organic foods suddenly come to an end? Did everyone revert to the environmental habits of the 1950s? Did people stop protesting wars?

The fact is, all those trends that began in the sixties have flowered and multiplied in the ensuing decades. If this weren’t so—if it had all just blown over, the neo-cons wouldn’t exist. The fundamentalist backlash that has swept the United States during the past two decades was a frightened reaction to the radical changes that began in the sixties. It was the overthrowing of a whole cluster of fundamental cultural assumptions at once that struck terror in the hearts of traditionalists the world over.

Few people at the time recognized the common denominator to these movements, and the various groups involved–hippies, anti-war protesters, civil rights activists, feminists–engaged in loud and bitter arguments about priorities. But in fact an entire cultural premise was being overthrown.

So what was this overthrowing about, and what is its core?

It has been said that there’s a “culture war” being waged around the world, one side of which is conservative Islam. But the real culture clash is taking place within Islam, as well as within the United States, within the corporate world, within science, within the arts. This is not a conflict between nations, or between religious traditions, or between left and right. The struggle is taking place WITHIN every nation, every political party, every religious tradition, every institution, every individual. No group of people gathered together can long be free of this conflict, which is the most profound alteration in human culture since the invention of agriculture.

It’s a double-edged sword, but you don’t simply abandon the war against the fundamentalists by becoming a compromising pushover. You fight back – hard. That’s what the boyz don’t seem to get. It’s a process.

41. supervixen - 15 June 2007

Oh MCat, thank you for the Felix tribute. He was indeed a hunk. And always in the kitchen, where the eatin’ action was.

BTW, that little cookbook he’s sitting on, Bistro Cooking, is pretty good. It includes excellent recipes for lemon tart and that yummy cold lentil salad with red-wine vinegar dressing.

Felix didn’t eat those things, but he did love butter and cheese.

JJB, getting another cat is a good suggestion but I can’t do that because our other cat, Martin, a fluffy grey guy, has been waiting years to take Felix’s place as Head Cat. I’m sure he would take it amiss if we introduced another cat to the household.

42. marisacat - 15 June 2007

I posted a link last night to Dr Harrison’s latest diary…ABORTION RELIGION AND GOD but I am just gettting to it myself… and in the thread there is:

Please, No All-Caps Titles (0 / 0)

From the FAQ:

Do not use ALL CAPS or exclamation marks !!! in diary titles.

by ortcutt on Thu Jun 14, 2007 at 11:50:09 PM PDT

True enough (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:Beket

but as Dr. Harrison said, he had a head injury. 🙂

The TEA Fund: Practicing random acts of kindness

by moiv on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 12:22:18 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

And (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:Readrock, william f harrison

what a nit-picky, punctilious, unnecessary comment to so profound a diary!!!

No matter how fervently you believe that you know what you merely believe, you merely believe it, and you might be wrong – very wrong.

by Beket on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 12:48:43 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

Well, at least (0 / 0)

he said “Please.” :-p

The TEA Fund: Practicing random acts of kindness

by moiv on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 12:50:52 AM PDT

[ Parent ]


43. supervixen - 15 June 2007

#39 – cad, I think the Boyz hate the ’60s because they are all conservative Republicans at heart. Check out this guy Brent Rasmussen (alias DarkSyde). Does he not look like a conservative? And here is his descriptor on his DKos homepage:

I’m a former moderate conservative who is fed up with Bush and Company.

He always gave me the creepycrawlies – something about his tone and his attitude was unsavory – but I only found out recently that he was a self-confessed “former” conservative.

44. cad - 15 June 2007

aren’t the boyz all former (sic) conservatives? that’s why they disdain women’s rights and endorse corporate “branding” — it also explains their man-love for tuff guys.

45. cad - 15 June 2007

and note the robert heinlein banner on rasmussen’s site – heinlein was a famous imperialist cold war sci-fi writer. explains much.

46. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

Brinn! Go Red!! Lol! Good luck tonight!

SV, Felix is a beautiful cat – that’s a great picture.

47. supervixen - 15 June 2007

cad – yes, I noticed the Heinlein too. I enjoyed Heinlein’s books but he was none too sound on feminism, for example.

48. marisacat - 15 June 2007

well I think Darksyde is rather the demographic wee kos aims for…. and as I REALLY don’t go to Kos much at all, I had no idea that the likes of Rimjob’s People magazine diary (with a thread of hanging tongues and hanging whatever else) was a regular feature.

LOL Pretty clear what the site is all about.

Frat frat frat frat… junior NASCAR.

49. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

Bowers says that Jerome Armstrong provided him with a living. Where did he get the money to do that? Wasn’t his excuse for becoming an internet conman that he had so many debts and needed the money?

As for this ‘revolution’! Well, they finally realized the ‘game’ is over. They simply cannot reign in the anger anymore. The final straw for those who reluctantly went along for the past few years, was the Iraq War games played by Democrats.

That that diary on the ‘rulzzzz’ was the most important topic on DK last night while the world is on fire (thanks for your excellent OP, Marisacat) , rec’d by only by the usual mob, demonstrated and was commented on by many, how out of touch these operators are with the pulse of the country. They had a good run, at least Marcos got something out of it, for anyone whose goal it was to make him rich.

But anyone who would follow any individual who was even remotely connected to these people, will just end up three years from, wondering again, ‘what happened’.

The sad thing is that they hindered those who were not in it for their own personal gain, or careers, from scaring the shit out of these politicians. Someone put money behind them, imo, to stop the growing influence of the Internet.

I don’t and will never trust anyone who was a part of that. The country is worse off now than it ever was in my memory. The ME is out of control, and I don’t know if anything can be done about it.

The BBBS and their troll patrols facilitated all of it. Why people did not see that a strategy of telling politicians ‘we don’t like what you’re doing and we’ll you during the primaries, but we’ll be on board once the general election rolls around’, was anything other sheer stupidy, I’ll never understand.

I love the appearance in Eugene’s diary of the ‘fascist bimbo’ (thanks catnip I think) attempting to appear intelligent!

As for Bowers and Stoller, I agree that it’s going to be interesting to see who’s funding them this time. To think they can turn around now and ‘move left’ is laughable. These are not the people who will accomplish anything. They have not only not accomplished anything, they have contributed to where we are today.

50. marisacat - 15 June 2007

Felix didn’t eat those things, but he did love butter and cheese.

I enjoy Patricia Wells too… well reading her books and articles since I only sort of cook… 😉

BTW, Baby loves a couple of standard issue cat canned food that come with cheese…

Nine Lives makes a flaked tuna (red) with sort of pellets of orangish cheese (I am not tasting it to determine if cheddar or American process… LOL) but she loves it. Also Friskies makes a turkey with cheese … I buy those 20, 30 at time when on sale at 30 cents a can.

Both are big favorites.

51. Kevin Lynch - 15 June 2007

who amongst us men are too sound on feminism? I likes my wimenz tuh gets their handz durty. uh grrrrl who don’t wears no makeup. all fur wimenz sufferej and eekwull payz an all. but I iz still just a man. all weighz undur suspishuhn.

My team won the chili cook-off by the way. got a $25 gift certificate. didn’t win the Food factor contest because it was a timed thing. never could get everything down first, but I still got it down and held it 😉

Go Brinn! Good luck!


52. cad - 15 June 2007

yearly kos should be an interesting trainwreck this year.

and certain to be the last.

53. marisacat - 15 June 2007

hahahahha… as long as they all punch and slash at each other, go for it (from Breaking Blue at MyDD)

On Obama’s memo: “Hillary Clinton (D-Punjab)” (Jerome Armstrong)

I think it’s reached the point where Obama can stop merely blaming his staff for their screw-ups. This is Rush Limbaugh land that Obama’s campaign has wandered into:

Shortly after the Clinton campaign released the financial information, the campaign of Senator Barack Obama, the Illinois Democrat, circulated to news organizations — on what it demanded be a not-for-attribution-basis — a scathing analysis.

It called Mrs. Clinton “Hillary Clinton (D-Punjab)” in its headline. The document referred to the investment in India and Mrs. Clinton’s fund-raising efforts among Indian-Americans.

Posted at 06/15/2007 04:04:00 PM EST – #

I first saw this mentioned at Jeralyn’s TL last night… she all het up, (in the bag for Hillary is my take) and dear girl, she still believes that “blind trusts” are, like,, you know blind.

Some people believe in the book, whatever it is or says.


54. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

Action Alert! Action Alert! Calling all Diary Police! If you are a TU get your rear end over to DK immediately!

OMG!! A major RULE has been broken at DK in a diary that is currently on the Rec. list!! Who does not remember the belabored meanderings of Hunter et all about CALLING OUT ANOTHER KOSSACK in a diary title?


But ironically, and hilariously, the woman who wrote the distressed diary on the ‘rulzzzzz’ is IN the diary and for some reason, has failed to demand that the diarist ‘Delete that Title it is against the rulzzz’ Why are she and the FPer who are both in the diary, not waving a copy of the FAQS? Lol! Enquiring minds want to know! Are they falling apart or could it be that THIS diary is one that they like?

We just report, you all must decide! Lol!

Hypocrites as always! Another perfect example of why they have no credibility!!

55. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

Lol, Cad …. yes, Yrly kos should be very interesting. I’m sure they will protect the visiting servants of the people from the people as much as they can.

Damage control everywhere on dk – kos is demanding that the leadership take action on, guess what? Lol! Gay Rights! See, he IS a progressive! Stop saying you will not contribute another dime to the party until they step up to the plate and do their jobs! Forget the war, let’s focus on those ‘single issue’ voters! Oops, but I thought he hated single issue voters! So hard to keep up with the rulz!

Oh, and I still want to know what it is about Ron Paul that he so admires, because his diary kops are working hard to auto-ban all Ron Paul supporters on his very own site!

56. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

well, I suppose I should be ashamed, but I agreed w/ Eugene on his contempt for the rural voters … I’m from those people, and I’ve spent my life running away from that parochial mindset. It sickens me … it still does, and lambs so eager to be slaughtered are hard to work up much sympathy.

57. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

Via Reuters:

By evening, calm had largely returned. Medics said three people were killed in scattered shooting. Some Gazans said they were anxious about the prospect of a reinforcement of religious rule.

“Our people are poor,” said Hana, an engineer. “Will Hamas … be able to feed them? What if (Abbas) stops sending money to Gaza ..? It looks like Somalia to me.

I just put up my bit on Gaza. This quote bothered me immensely:

Israel has been careful not to become involved in the fighting, and Housing and Construction Minister Meir Sheetrit (Kadima) said Friday that despite calls from the right for Israel to reoccupy the Gaza Strip, from which it withdrew in 2005, Israel would not move in to confront Hamas, which is sworn to destroy it.

“There is no intention to re-enter that swamp, Gaza, in this situation,” Sheetrit told Israel Radio. “At this point, Israel has no reason to intervene.”

Off for a nap now.

Congrats on winning the chili cook-off, Kevin. And, because I’m too lazy to scroll back, thanks to whoever put up that info about Chris Floyd’s banning. I thought he’d been turfed for being too radical. Their rules are going to come back to haunt them big time in the end.

58. keirdubois - 15 June 2007

well of course DKos is finished as a “useful” place. Has been for at least a year.

It’s the public scalpings that are finally getting to me, though, I think.

59. cad - 15 June 2007

i bet obama and hillary bow out of yk. unless they received their check already…

60. marisacat - 15 June 2007

Yes but madman…

he now waxes eloquent on rurals. Or whatever he calls them.

There are lots of people who just resolutely hate where I am (San Francisco) and groups I surely do not much care for… until it splits to city-states… we are stuck.

Somewhat together.

61. marisacat - 15 June 2007

oh PS I meant to mention, part of the issue, that eugene never addressed in the push back in the LSF diary:

TWO people living in rural Washington state, said that ONLY Republicans listened to them. Tho they both resolutely voted for the Democrat(s).

SOMEBODY has got to hear that.

62. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

Oh, I do my best to be consistent at least!

I agree that some lefties SHOULD talk to them, it just shouldn’t be ME. Or any snotty rationalist atheist loner LIKE me. Hell, I’m not fit to interact w/ most people in a political context … most people drive me nuts and fill me w/ frustration.

Before I got my new position, one of the guys I worked w/ (studying to be a minister for some black church denomination … never paid any attention to which one), used to like to wind me up. Pretty conservative guy. I’d get mad and start beginning every sentence after a few minutes with: “you need to google …”

My supervisor used to say that he wanted to get me on the radio, so I could be a lefty shouter to offset the huge number of wingers on the radio here. He said my trademark could be shouting “NEXT” after I tell a caller what an idiot they were.

Oh, and as an aside, the guy who took over Holy Joe’s little third party has demanded Lieberman’s resignation as the party chairman. Speaking of CT, if you want to see some fucking ignorant, stupid voters, go to rural CT and the CT suburbs. I couldn’t move away from that place fast enough.

63. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

When America’s cities are Blade-Runneresque/William Gibson, and the rest of the country has gone Mad Max, it’s guys like this fuckin’ tool who helped get it there faster:

At times wiping away tears, a former interim U.S. attorney who became a key figure in the firing of eight federal prosecutors said his six-month tenure led him to believe that public service was “not worth it.”

Tim Griffin, a former aide to presidential adviser Karl Rove, said the allure of working at the White House and National Guard commitments that took him to Iraq kept him away from Arkansas and his wife too long.

Griffin replaced Bud Cummins, one of eight federal prosecutors either fired or forced out last year. Griffin said Cummins had told him in April 2006 about his coming departure as chief federal prosecutor in Arkansas’ eastern district.

They are such fucking bastards they don’t even have the stones to do PATRONAGE with any fucking style.

64. marisacat - 15 June 2007

Well the Bushes and the Clintons helped. As did millions of voters.

More is the pity.

65. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

oops, meant to type “nightmares” after “gibson” …

oh, my kingdom for a “preview” button!

66. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

The TSA/Homeland Security, protecting frightened children from scary clowns … and a follow up to the deadly sippy cup.

67. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

overly frightened parents destroy childrens’ souls.

68. lucidculture - 15 June 2007

“I like this violence” – what an absolutely absurd statement.

Happy B-day moiv & kev. Hope yer havin’ fun.

MitM – yeah CT is not really a blue state, between the rural vote & the rich white suburban vote, I’m pretty amazed they sometimes elect dems.

MCat – I forget how I came across Mad Cow Productions, but it was sometime in late 2001. They did a bunch of fantastic background research into the FL flight school that Atta and others attended & came to the conclusion, for good reason, that it was a CIA drug-smuggling front. Interestingly enough the owner of that school got awarded a huge DOD contract in 2002 when there were other, much more qualified firms, bidding for the same contract. Things that make you go ‘hmmm’…

69. marisacat - 15 June 2007

we’re not citizens… barely voters… we’re godamned fucking patsies.

A very painful word when one remembers Oswald.

70. colleen - 15 June 2007

TWO people living in rural Washington state, said that ONLY Republicans listened to them.

Considering the truly disgusting shape of the WA state Democratic party I would say that that tendency isn’t confined to rural Dems. The blogs and particularly DK are innundated with WA state operatives (Eugene, RonK and MCJOan come to mind) Nothing those assholes have ever written indicate they actually converse with voters here, much less listen to them.

71. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

Breaking up families, the law-and-order way … and this family is lucky. No guns and concentration camps, but it’s heartbreaking to watch.

72. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

the phrase hoist by your own petard comes to mind.

73. Miss Devore - 15 June 2007

Happy b-day to Kevin & moiv from Miss Devore who cannot seem to get her party blowout horn functioning today.

74. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

Lind on the latest ramp-up of ‘Merikkkan bombing in Iraq:

Worse, the growing number of air strikes shows that, despite what the Marines have accomplished in Anbar province and Gen. Petraeus’ best efforts, our high command remains as incapable as ever of grasping Fourth Generation war. To put it bluntly, there is no surer or faster way to lose in 4GW than by calling in airstrikes. It is a disaster on every level. Physically, it inevitably kills far more civilians than enemies, enraging the population against us and driving them into the arms of our opponents. Mentally, it tells the insurgents we are cowards who only dare fight them from 20,000 feet in the air. Morally, it turns us into Goliath, a monster every real man has to fight. So negative are the results of air strikes in this kind of war that there is only one possible good number of them: zero (unless we are employing the “Hama model,” which we are not).

What explains this military lunacy, beyond simple desperation? Part of the answer, I suspect, is Air Force generals. Jointness demands they get their share of command billets in Iraq, and with very few exceptions they are mere military technicians. They know how to put bombs on targets, but they know nothing else. So, they do what they know how to do, with no comprehension of the consequences.

In fact, the U.S. Air Force recently announced it is developing its own counter-insurgency doctrine, precisely because “some people” are suggesting air strikes are counterproductive in such conflicts. Well, yes, that is what anyone with any understanding of counter-insurgency would suggest. The Air Force, of course, cares not a whit about the realities of counter-insurgency. It cares only about protecting its bureaucratic turf, its myth of “winning through air power” and its high-performance fighter-bombers, which truly are its knights in shining armor, useful only for tournaments.

75. marisacat - 15 June 2007

Oh Dems scheduled a big PR flash… NBC Evening News, a big spot on Jim Webb and Jimmy Webb. Patriotic slobber. They walked thru Arlington, even.

mention that Webb ran on a ticket AGAINST the war. As we fight on. And the proto-typical shot of WEbb holding his son’s combat boots aloft.

We are so fucked.

76. marisacat - 15 June 2007


well and then today an F-16 is brought down. Last I read nobody is saying nothin’.

77. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

an F-16 was brought down?!?! I haven’t seen that. Webb was lovingly interviewed on NPR this morning, and no, I won’t link to it. I threw up in my mouth a little listening to it as I walked to work. More paeons to militarism and being willing to kill, no matter how unjust the cause. Fucker.

On another topic (variation on a theme):

Complaint: Schlozman Aimed to Replace Lawyers with “Good Americans”

“Bradley J. Schlozman is systematically attempting to purge all Civil Rights appellate attorneys hired under Democratic administrations,” the lawyer wrote, saying that he appeared to be “targeting minority women lawyers” in the section and was replacing them with “white, invariably Christian men.” The lawyer also alleged that “Schlozman told one recently hired attorney that it was his intention to drive these attorneys out of the Appellate Section so that he could replace them with ‘good Americans.'”

The anonymous complaint named three female, minority lawyers whom Schlozman had transferred out of the appellate section (of African-American, Jewish, and Chinese ethnicity, respectively) for no apparent reason. And in a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee earlier this week in response to questions from senators, the Justice Department confirmed that all three had been transferred out by Schlozman — and then transferred back in after Schlozman had left the Division.

78. marisacat - 15 June 2007

Why not just order good Germans.

Why wait, get it over with.

79. Miss Devore - 15 June 2007

MItm-thanks for the link to the lind article–I came across it somewhere today, but forgot where before I had time to read it.

I notice the CNN site is talking about the internally displaced Iraqis living in refugee camps. (most of the wealthier and educated have been able to flee) so the GWOT is now creating “Palestine II” And if they have their way I guess there will be more sequels than Rocky.

I’m at the point in the Felton book where he is recounting situations where, for essentially PC reasons, the Central Command for the US army, put security contractors in positions where they had to function as an army. Cuz CC refused to give them support when under siege. Asked them to tone down their rhetoric, etc.

80. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

It’s really interesting to watch the chestbeating over Mike Nifong’s behavior in the Duke “rape case”.

Our entire political establishment is littered w/ former prosecutors who tried minorities and the poor in the press, with DA’s who frog-marched minor mob figures or conmen before cameras (ie Rudy Guiliani). We have a system BUILT on fucking over people who can’t defend themselves. It’s part of the job. IT’S EXPECTED AND APPLAUDED. Perverts who respond to reporters pretending to be 16, inner-city dropouts slinging dope … but what Nifong did is BEYOND THE FUCKING PALE. What makes that case special is that the victims were rich white boys.

Not that I want innocent men, even spoiled rich white kids who play a game they stole from people their ancestors slaughtered, to go to jail, but zealous prosecutors and shitty police work destroy people’s (mostly poor and brown people’s) lives ALL THE FUCKING TIME in this country. Is anybody going after the bastards who destroyed Larry Peterson’s life, or any of the countless others?

81. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

The military is saying the F-16 downing was an ‘accident’. Mitm, that piece on the Air Force bombing in Iraq is excellent. They’re doing the same thing in Afghanistan, enraging the population as more and more civilians are killed.

It’s the public scalpings that are finally getting to me, though, I think. Kierdubois

Kierdubois, that was what did it for me – mostly perfectly decent people, expressing frustration at what is happening to their country. It didn’t just start, it’s been going on at DK with the help of the thread thugs, and the ‘rulezzzz’ enforcers, some of whom were rewarded, with being allowed to post on the FP. Many will sell their souls for that miserable privilege. In your diary on Hell that would have been an interesting inclusion. ‘What does it profit a man to sell his soul etc. ….’

Thousands of people have been banned from dk, which contributes to the backlash they are getting now. They never saw posters as people, many times far more intelligent than the little band of thugs that roams the threads and the hidden comments over there. People who wil not be silenced, and certainly not by people like them.

I laughed when I read Durbin’s diary the other day, talking about blogs giving people a right to be heard. I meant to email his office to ask him was he joking, posting something like that on DK of all places! But there’s so much to be furious about, I forgot about it until now.

82. supervixen - 15 June 2007

If you were writing a screenplay about Nazis ruling America after winning WW2 (as in Len Deighton’s SSGB) and you were trying to find a name for the earnest young True Believer Nazi, could you do any better than “Bradley J. Schlozman”?

83. marisacat - 15 June 2007

Maybe Bradley J Schlozman IV

84. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

Well, I messed up that post, sorry about that …

Mitm, Griffin cries like a baby now because they were caught. Gonzales is still there, and Bush says he’ll stay as long as he wants him to.

But what really bothers me about these revelations is that we knew about all this at least as far back as 2004. Greg Palast, for one, wrote about the caging of voters, eg, before the Nov Election that year. Of course he was thrashed recently on DK! One of the few people who actually had the guts to tell the truth when it was NOT safe to do so.

I noticed an Opol diary with nearly 100 recs slipping off the diary list. At the same time, another diary made it to the rec list with 15 Recs! It many have more now, but it had 9 comments and 15 recs when it landed there! They would not manipulate the diary list, I’m sure!

85. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

completely off topic (though I need a break from the relentless darkness), but I love this song.

86. lucidculture - 15 June 2007

Cool tune MitM.

btw – we’re having some ‘bass player’ issues currently & are shopping for replacements – this guy has expressed some interest. What do you think?

87. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

The aerial bombings are fueling a lot of anger in Afghanistan as well. Karzai tries to fight back, whining about all of the dead civilians, and NATO can’t do anything about it because they’re being done by the US military. Same shit. Different country. Same results. More rebels created. But they keep right on doing it.

88. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

What’s Kyl scared of ?

A Republican senator blocked a vote in the Judiciary Committee on whether to authorize subpoenas to the Justice Department to obtain secret legal opinions and other documents related to the National Security Agency’s program of domestic eavesdropping. The action by Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona will block the vote for a week. After the vote next Thursday, Senator Patrick J. Leahy, Democrat of Vermont and chairman of the committee, can decide whether to issue the subpoenas or use them as leverage in negotiations with the Bush administration over access to the documents.

That’s the shortest article I’ve ever read in the NYT.

89. marisacat - 15 June 2007

can decide whether to issue the subpoenas or use them as leverage in negotiations with the Bush administration over access to the documents.

well I have full faith and confidence in Patrick J Leahy.

Most tight lipped smile possible.

90. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

The NYT has the backstory on the Obama campaign pushing the Clinton memos. So much for Obama’s halo.

91. Kevin Lynch - 15 June 2007

you know, both statements I made before are absolutely true. Every woman I’ve ever dated has been a tomboy. they’re lower maintenance and you don’t wait around as long while they try to find the absolute perfect pair of shoes. I’m also always under this silent cloud of suspicion because I have glands that secrete testosterone. can’t even joke about it without getting the cold shoulder. just wish you would all relax just a teensey bit. it’s not like I’ve ever had any involvement with the Tribal Police, or something. it’s easy to google too…

aside from that, the war is terrible and life sucks


92. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

He fits the frippesque direction you like lucid. I like the control he seems to have over “bleed” when he’s slapping the strings.

93. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

No more dancing bears in Bulgaria.

SOFIA, Bulgaria (AP) – After a lifetime of brutal treatment, including walking on burning embers, Bulgaria’s last three dancing bears will get to rest their paws at a mountain sanctuary, in an apparent end to the centuries-old performance tradition in the Balkans.

“Dancing”? More like “tortured”. Poor bears. So sad.

The bears are captured while still young. Their nose or lips are pierced, and a metal ring attached to a chain is inserted; the pain ensures instant submission.

The cubs are forced to walk on burning embers or a hot sheet of metal, and hop from one hind leg to the other in order to escape the burning, while their trainer beats a drum. The process is repeated until the bear learns to connect the drum to the pain.

94. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

That’s pure Daley machine. Why is anybody surprised?

95. Miss Devore - 15 June 2007

It appears that they have Nancy Drew some sort of Macauley Caulkin critter in the new movie which I will never see, not just because I don’t see current movies, but the most important part of these “canonical” american books or cartoons, is that the reader is allowed to interpret. I thought it sucked when they did Peanuts specials on TV–though never a great fan of Peanuts, I preferred my imagination of their voices.

When I saw the pic accompanying the nytimes review of the movie….Nancy with 2 guys–knew it was lost. Guys were marginal in Nancy Drew mysteries. That was the fucking pleasure. A young woman gets herself embroiled in relative danger, and is not rescued by men. (as a plus, her mother is dead, so she is free of mother-nagging, and Hannah does the cooking and cleaning, and Daddy Carson Drew gives her a fucking car!)

96. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

can’t even joke about it without getting the cold shoulder. just wish you would all relax just a teensey bit.

What’s that about? Did I miss something?

97. marisacat - 15 June 2007

yes..what did i miss… (catnip at 96)

On Obama…

exactly. Daley machine is written all over him and esp all over the wife.

98. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007


How troublesome the Muslims of the Middle East are. First, we demand that the Palestinians embrace democracy and then they elect the wrong party – Hamas – and then Hamas wins a mini-civil war and presides over the Gaza Strip. And we Westerners still want to negotiate with the discredited President, Mahmoud Abbas. Today “Palestine” – and let’s keep those quotation marks in place – has two prime ministers. Welcome to the Middle East.

Who can we negotiate with? To whom do we talk? Well of course, we should have talked to Hamas months ago. But we didn’t like the democratically elected government of the Palestinian people. They were supposed to have voted for Fatah and its corrupt leadership. But they voted for Hamas, which declines to recognise Israel or abide by the totally discredited Oslo agreement.

No one asked – on our side – which particular Israel Hamas was supposed to recognise. The Israel of 1948? The Israel of the post-1967 borders? The Israel which builds – and goes on building – vast settlements for Jews and Jews only on Arab land, gobbling up even more of the 22 per cent of “Palestine” still left to negotiate over ?

And so today, we are supposed to talk to our faithful policeman, Mr Abbas, the “moderate” (as the BBC, CNN and Fox News refer to him) Palestinian leader, a man who wrote a 600-page book about Oslo without once mentioning the word “occupation”, who always referred to Israeli “redeployment” rather than “withdrawal”, a “leader” we can trust because he wears a tie and goes to the White House and says all the right things. The Palestinians didn’t vote for Hamas because they wanted an Islamic republic – which is how Hamas’s bloody victory will be represented – but because they were tired of the corruption of Mr Abbas’s Fatah and the rotten nature of the “Palestinian Authority”….

99. lucidculture - 15 June 2007

Kev – women have glands that secrete testosterone as well… and men have glands that seccrete estrogen.

We’re not all that different… except for men not having to deal with eons of slavery, inequality, debasement, physical abuse… and lack of legal control over their own bodies.

[Though to be fair there were eons of that which men were subject to as well… just not so much lately among the ‘white’ ones.]

100. Miss Devore - 15 June 2007

(twice today my eyeglasses have dropped on the floor–omen of blindness?)

as a native chicagoan…I think the nature of the daley machine has changed a bit, over the years. I’m not intimately informed, but is it something different than all the other political dynasties at play these days?

oh, and I really fucked up by not mentioning Bess or George in my Nancy Drew comments.

but I’m like that these days.

101. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

we’re different in what is expected of us, and our own anticipation of it.

102. keirdubois - 15 June 2007

Sabrina, you’re not going to like this, but both you and Elise misspelled my first name the very same way. 😉

103. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

men and women, that is.

104. lucidculture - 15 June 2007

we’re different in what is expected of us, and our own anticipation of it.

socialization… the root of all negative socio-gender dynamics.

105. Madman in the Marketplace - 15 June 2007

Thanks to the Sunlight Foundation, visualize earmarks.

106. Miss Devore - 15 June 2007

I’m different! When I was stressed out in my early teens I could feel my pituitary gland snapping its fingers–I mean really, at the exact location where the pituitary was on the physiomap-there was this snapping sensation going on.

(ok, it is a ruse to explain my life-but I did feel it.)

107. marisacat - 15 June 2007

well if you google the wif’s background… she spent iirc 10 years in the daley office (often glossed over or left out of bios) after leaving (quite early on) her associate spot (think I have that right, that she was still an associate, not too many years in) at a premier law firm (Sidley Austin). From the Daley office, she went straight to an essentially PR job at UC (associate dean) then to VP at UC Hospitals.

LOL And recently had to resign from a board spot (one of 6 boards she is on) at a subsidiary for Wal Mart. It just did not jive with the Obama rhetoric…

It’s fine, that is the way it works, but I don’t want to miss the point.

108. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

(twice today my eyeglasses have dropped on the floor–omen of blindness?)

Or just a sign to get new glasses? 😉

I grew up reading Nancy Drew too. My sister collected the books and I now have one or two 1st editions. Who knew I was subtly being coopted by the feminist movement?? lol

109. Miss Devore - 15 June 2007

108-I had so many 1st editions, and by the time I was 8, I was caught up to the newest ones. I loved the triad of nancy george bess. George being the butch player, Bess being the hyperfemme, nancy between the two. It covered all we experienced in our lives as young girls. We loved all their manifestations of female because we knew it in ourselves and saw it all in the females of our lives. Even if we were 8.

110. BooHooHooMan - 15 June 2007

Bowers and Stoller are going to K Street as coffee boys for a Clinton White House refugee. Who_ ‘da thunkit?

They are an inspiration…..
to Narcissistic Personality Disordered people everywhere.

Eugene’s diary entitled,
Round Stone Objects Useful When Attached to Sleds!
was a real gas, man.

Hey, we need is a grassroots movement given Democratic political failures! Everybody yell!

It’s like tossing plastic bananas into the orangutan cages.

It’s so, so, so 2002.

111. supervixen - 15 June 2007

Miss D: yes, Bess, the chubby girl, and George, who as I recall from the illustrations was angular and boylike, much like k.d. lang. The two kinds of women who are least desirable in our society. And Ned Nickerson struck me as a wimp. Of course I read the original Nancy Drews (Ned had a roadster and a raccoon coat and probably listened to Rudy Vallee) and not the revamped “modern” versions. They may have dumped Bess and George completely.

I further note that Velma in Scooby-Doo, who was plump and nerdy in the original cartoons, chunky orange sweater and all, was slimmed down in the more recent cartoons and was even seen in a bikini, with a toned waistline similar to Daphne’s. The clear message is: it’s OK if you’re the smartest one in the bunch, but you have to be physically attractive and show off your body.

Also, the live-action film versions of Scooby-Doo (like the world really needed those) turned the whole premise of the series on its head by blithely incorporating supernatural aspects which Velma was unable to debunk. Velma is no longer the Voice of Science and Reason Against Superstition.

I decry the bimbonification of Velma!

112. lucidculture - 15 June 2007

When I grew up, my brother had a bookshelf full of Hardy Boys books & my sister had a bookshelf full of Bobbsey Twins… I read the bookshelf full of Bobbsey Twins, but that also might be because in my early years [6-9], I didn’t take an interest in reading & my sister was tasked with that chore by my parents [she was 6 years older]. Probably why the first sci-fi I started to read was Madaline L’Engle as well.

113. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

Sabrina, you’re not going to like this, but both you and Elise misspelled my first name the very same way.

Lol, Keirdubois, you are a virtual mind-reader. The last thing I want, is to have anything at all in common with an authoritarian bully, male or female. I can’t think of a greater incentive to ensure I never make that mistake again. My only excuse is not enough sleep these past few weeks? 🙂

Lol, Miss D – you little pretender you …

I heard something on the radio about Obama having made some deal regarding his house with a realtor that he is getting criticism for. I didn’t hear the details so don’t know what the story is. Why do they start these presidential races two years before the election? I’m already sick of all of them … especially since all of them won’t take bombing Iran off the table!

114. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

A prime example of where blind partisanship gets you:

fine, but not the question i asked (1+ / 0-)

my question was about shaming, as you had related your practice of shaming Ron Paul supporters with reference to his racism and homophobia. i asked if you did the same to supporters of Democrats, like Hillary Clinton, who are complicit in a monstrous act of mass murder. certainly more shameful, in my view, than racism or homophobia. i’d sooner find common ground with a racist than with someone who thinks its ok to initiate war unconstitutionally and on such pretense. why? because i’m really a fan of the KKK? no. because i think war is obviously a greater evil than bigotry. so obviously that i have to wonder how it is that people who detest racism accept organized mass murder.

it doesn’t make any moral sense.

and your reply totally dodges the issue. i didn’t ask who you support, but why you choose to vilify someone for a particular evil while giving a pass to others for a greater evil. yes, racism is wrong. war is worse.

i’d prefer someone phobic of homosexuals over someone willing to initiate mass murder illegally and for no good reason. as i see it, such willingness expresses a far more severe form of bigotry – though unconscious and unrecognized by an unconscious society.

by Felix Culpa on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 05:21:08 PM PDT

I’d sooner not find common ground with either (1+ / 0-)

and that was my point. I will not vote for Ron Paul. EVER. I will not vote for anyone who voted for the Iraq war in a primary. I will vote for whoever our nominee is. I’d like that to be Gore. If not, Obama it is.

Read Feminisms Wednesdays and Take Action

by Elise on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 05:47:40 PM PDT

well, yeah, (0 / 0)

i’d rather not find common ground with either, too.

but why not answer the question i’ve asked: why vilify one while giving the other a pass?

by Felix Culpa on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 05:51:33 PM PDT

I’ve already answered that. Paul is a REPUBLICAN. (0 / 0)

Read Feminisms Wednesdays and Take Action

by Elise on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 07:23:50 PM PDT

ok (0 / 0)

so, party affiliation all by itself is the difference between morally reprehensible and morally acceptable?

i appreciate the honesty of the response, but i fail to find any genuine sense of morality. following the logic, if a Democrat and a Republican were to make the same racist comments, the Democrat would be acceptable and the Republican reprehensible. sounds like a parody of moral sentiment to me.

it does, though, a good job of explaining why more and more people are identifying as independents; while also suggesting why it is that it’s more acceptable to kill an Iraqi than to insult an African American. in short: the Iraqi belongs to another party.

by Felix Culpa on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 07:36:33 PM PDT

115. supervixen - 15 June 2007

Also I recall Nancy Drew being dragged into the whole Parker Stevenson/Shaun Cassidy Hardy Boys scene, as a token girl. Ugh. ’70s stuff is flooding back into my mind all of a sudden.

Sorry, my brain is set on “silly chatter” today, and jumping all over the place. I’m out to have fun. Tonight I made boeuf bourguignon (sp?) from Julia Child’s recipe. It’s quietly simmering away in the oven. Tomorrow I’ll put in the mushrooms and small white onions.

Eating is healing, but cooking is healing too, in the right spirit.

BTW, catnip, I hope you’re feeling better!

116. marisacat - 15 June 2007

New Thread:


117. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007


This blog has always (4+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
taylormattd, expatjourno, Elise, AndyS In Colorado

been about not just electing democrats, but also reforming the party. And I am not sure this is true:

We are at a place now where it is not merely about how many folks have a D after their name, but about what those with a D believe.

Otherwise, terrific diary. I believe that we can organize to get better democrats in to congress. But I am not sure it is a matter of left and right. Howard Dean is not left, still he is correct about almost everything and I would give my left leg to have him in the white house (there’s a back story on my left leg right now, don’t ask). Let’s say populist democrats who are right on certain issues. I guess we will have to take it on a case by case basis.

Unseen Gore Video

by TeresaInPa on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 11:48:47 AM PDT

118. marisacat - 15 June 2007

I must have read the old Nancy Drew series… I recall the roadster and the beaver coat… on someone.

119. BooHooHooMan - 15 June 2007

Blast from the past. Hardy Boys. Still the message of danger lurking around every corner but that could reasonably be solved with a notebook, maybe a compass, along with Chet Morton the jovial pie eating friend.

The Hard-On Boys in retrospect. No one got laid, jerked off, no nothin.

Their Perils were strictly limited then around their hometown of Cracker Port. No brutal cops with dogs and water cannnons. Back when life was simpler as we awaited mutually assured destruction. No need to wait for the next book anymore, nor much longer it seems for mutually assured destruction.

120. Miss Devore - 15 June 2007

FYYW! (fuck you young whippersnappers) Scooby-do is a dog, who I probably have confused with Marmaluke? I don’t get that Charlie Chocolate thang either, though people I love refer to it.

I’m just a crone, trying to find a library dvd of Desperation Boulevard, starring Judy Tenuta, the original Love Goddess.

svix–when you add the tiny potatoes, do they scream?

121. Kevin Lynch - 15 June 2007

Grrr. how have I ever downplayed the plight of women in any of my comments? watched my mom struggle to near madness after her second divorce and actually learned to respect her. and every woman who’s ever had to do the same thing. I never even said it was unfair that I was dumped! that I felt terrible? yes. who did I blame? myself. why does everyone keep talking to me like the family dog? I know that I have a superiority/inferiority/fragility complex bouncing around in my pretty little head. but I’ve never said that women should be placed in a subservient position

please forgive the paranoia, it’s the old age talking

Kevin *sigh* at least I got a gift certificate

122. Miss Devore - 15 June 2007

118, 119.

The roadster, yes. but the frocks, too.

The gypsy camp story. I was always intrigued by the geography. to me, nancy lived in some east coast suburb, but where did she find the gypsies (Rose! The cursed doll!) and those Asian characters who had that ceramic thing going?

In the sexually segregated YAA fiction, my brother was compelled to read the Hardy Boys–I did, too, because no one was going to read more than I did, in my domicile. I convinced my brother to read “The Secret in the Old Attic” and he confessed Nancy Drew was better than the Hardy Boys.

123. liberalcatnip - 15 June 2007

I totally don’t know where there is coming from:

why does everyone keep talking to me like the family dog?

Who here is doing that?

124. supervixen - 15 June 2007

Kevin! Nobody here is talking to you that way, at least that I’ve seen. I think it’s safe to assume that we are among friends here. I, for one, have no animosity whatsoever towards you.

I’ll give you my chili recipe if you give me yours 😀

125. marisacat - 15 June 2007


don’t think anyone here indicated what you refer to.

If there were comments let me know – think you made two comments today, but I don’t see any replies to you. You can email me if you like.

marisacat AOL com

126. earth to meg - 15 June 2007

Kevin, we loved our family dog! (A Dalmatian named Rusty.)

Nancy Drew was my favorite! Does anybody remember geek-before-his-time Encyclopaedia Brown.

127. Miss Devore - 15 June 2007

Kevin-relax. You are hallucinating troll-ratings on a site that doesn’t have them. And don’t give me that “old age” stuff. As a former sex kitten turned hermit, “you can’t always get what you want” is archival news.

Being alive and still being able to stand up is not a bad thing. So you don’t get people buying you a bagel toaster because you are getting married. Bagel toasters and silverware are cheap compared to marriages gone bad.

The steady sex thing is enviable, but might not be what it’s cracked up to be.

128. lucidculture - 15 June 2007

Kev – not making any comment on you. Please don’t interpret in that way. I just got started from the testosterone thin and elaborated from there. Honestly, it wasn’t a comment about you or your history [of which I know little].

129. marisacat - 15 June 2007

Being alive and still being able to stand up is not a bad thing. So you don’t get people buying you a bagel toaster because you are getting married. Bagel toasters and silverware are cheap compared to marriages gone bad. — Miss Devore

lotta truth packed in there…

also the “sex kitten turned hermit”… 8)

130. marisacat - 15 June 2007

btw, I excrete just about no testosterone. LOL I attribute serveral “oddnesses” to that…


[since it came up]

131. Sabrina Ballerina - 15 June 2007

Lol, Catnip, that is vintage dk bimboism. They don’t do nuance. Democratic racist, okay. Republican racist, not okay.

Try explaining to them that Ron Paul is not a racist. He believes in ignoring race altogether. They are spreading a nasty charge of racism, just as they did about Cynthia McKinney, based on a murky story from years ago, which he has addressed.

While I disagree with him that you can ignore race at this point in time, he is suggesting an ideal that we are nowhere close to yet. It is more a hope for the future when we no longer need to see someone only in terms of their ethnicity, but as individuals. But the right wants Paul out of the debates, and they are spreading this smear, ‘swift-boating’ him and as they did with McKinney, DK is helping them out.

They are a very nasty bunch of people, black and white thinkers. Think of how they have smeared people from this blog, eg. The truth is not important, once they target someone, anything goes! Then they whine when people fight back and point out their idiocy!

Cynthia McKinney was attacked on that blog with the same mindless, unfounded charges. They could not argue against her voting record, so they accused of her anti-semitism, this despite her many Jewish friends debunking the charge.

This is why I sometimes think they are rightwingers posing as progressives. These attacks on both Paul and McKinney are identical to the rightwing attacks on both of them.

132. supervixen - 15 June 2007

earth to meg, yes, I loved the Encylopedia Brown books. Thanks for the reminder – a blast from the past!

As for other girl-centered books – Harriet the Spy is a great book – a 20th century Huckleberry Finn. But most of the characters are girls, except for Sport, who is kind of a wimp. So nobody but the girl readers noticed how good it was.

133. cad - 16 June 2007

as somebody who voted for paul in 88, i think he’s a smart man but he does associate with some extremely right loons. we don’t need less corporate de-regulation. it’s a perfect world paul imagines where race does not matter, but it clearly still does. we let new orleans flood because of “the other” attitude.

i liken paul to kucinich on the dem side, somebody who’ll be honest, therefore vilified and disqualified from the official game.

but why doesn’t anybody bring up kos calling arnie a “d” or calling himself a “libertarian democrat” whatever that is if the site is solely to elect blah blah blah…

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