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Careful… take care not to be crushed 7 July 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, Big Box Blogs, Border Issues, DC Politics, Democrats, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Iraq War, Mexico, Political Blogs, The Battle for New Orleans, U.S. House, WAR!.


in the tsunami of Republican defectors.

2 Republican senators join critics of Iraq war

WASHINGTON: The tide of Republican defections from President George W Bush’s camp swelled Saturday when two more US senators joined the chorus of critics of his Iraq policy,

demanding change.

Not to worry, they are building … headlines.  No tsunami in view:  Remain Calm.

But while expressing sharp disagreement with the strategy of “surging” the number of US troops in Iraq, Senators Lamar Alexander of Tennessee and Judd Gregg of New Hampshire

stopped short of backing legislation that would force the White House to begin a drawdown of US troops in Iraq.

“It should be clear to the president that there needs to be a new strategy,” said Alexander told The Los Angeles Times. “Our policy in Iraq is drifting.”

Gregg, who up to now had belonged to the camp of Iraq hardliners, said in an interview with the same newspaper that attempts to put down the Iraqi insurgency with higher numbers of US troops “don’t seem to be making a lot of progress.”

It is vital to have “a clear blueprint for how we were going to draw down,” he said.

They are demanding … BLUE PRINTS.

In fact, they sound like Reid.  Or Reed.  Or … Levin.  Or Warner (Whoops one of theirs!  How can we tell by now?). Hey toss in a little chit chat – with high-pitched giggles – about tri-furcating Iraq and they will sound like Biden.  As well.

Hell, maybe they [really] were talking about immigration and just got a bit screwey on the talking points.  Stick a long life light bulb in their hands and they will spout the lines on Global Warming, Saving the Earth — clue, it’s all about light bulbs and turning off lights. 

I just heard a good one, use one less paper napkin a day.  That was the advice from some NBC persona (alert the caterers to 30 Rockefeller Ctr!).  Then there was some burble that changing 5 light bulbs takes 10 million cars off the road.

Or I was hallucinating.

Just don’t talk about CARS and MILEAGE or the need for mass transit with greater subsidies or the wreckage that agrofuels will wage on the land.  So many electeds learned to say cellulosic. And to use the word with something akin to authority.  As tho they knew something.  Admittedly, that was fun to watch…

Who the fuck knows anymore.  Senators just gab.


I found the photo at the top at a great blog and the lead off link and snip is to none other than an agrofuels article (if we are not all turning green, then we are turning yellow!):


agrofuels threaten to greatly accelerate climate change through the destruction of ecosystems and carbon sinks on which we depend for a stable climate. The rush to agrofuels encourages intensive, industrial agriculture at the expense of sustainable food production.
Monoculture plantations have been doing serious damage around the world for decades, but agrofuels represent a further intensification of the process, endangering what remains of global forest cover and climate. They also threaten the food sovereignty, cultural, human and land rights of indigenous peoples and local communities.

Here is another snippet from the article:

The authors highlight how agrofuels are being used as a new promotional vehicle for GM technologies, in particular through the development of ‘second generation’ crops. Agrofuel expansion also threatens to displace indigenous peoples from their lands.

“The whole agrofuel process is going far too fast, pushed by corporations and governments before any controls are in place. Massive investment in infrastructure is already taking place around the world that will set us on a path from which it will be difficult to escape,” says Oscar Reyes of the Transnational Institute.

Golly, that sounds — familiar.


Meanwhile they still float in the bowl….

Obama at the National Education Association (NEA) a couple of days ago… from the text of his speech, they say he avoided being hissed

I  believe in collective bargaining, and I believe that any time you’re talking about wages, workers have to be at the table.

So let’s make a promise right now that if you’re a teacher or a principal doing the hard work of educating our children, we will reward that work with the salary increase that you deserve. If you’re willing to teach in a high-need subject like math or science or special education, we’ll pay you even more.

If you’re willing to take on more responsibilities like mentoring, we’ll pay you more.

And if you excel at helping your students achieve success, your success will be valued and rewarded as well. Here’s the key: We can find new ways to increase pay that are developed with teachers, not imposed on them and not based on some arbitrary test score. That’s how we’re going to close the achievement gap that exists in this country and that’s how we’re going to start treating teachers like the professionals you are.

I commend the work you’ve done in Minnesota with the governor there to craft an innovative pay system that not only values your performance in the classroom, but the performance of your students as well. You helped craft it and you and your students benefit from it.

We also know that when it comes to struggling schools, it’s not just how much you’re getting paid that matters, but how much support you’re getting to do your job. We know that when you pair experienced, mentor teachers with new teachers, those new teachers are much more likely to stay in the profession. So let’s make sure we start developing more mentor teachers so we can start recruiting and keeping the new generation of teachers we need.  


Hillary and others addressed the Steelworkers…

Clinton focuses on policy

While Edwards sought to relate to issues facing labor unions on a personal level, Clinton, who spoke with the steel workers this morning, adopted a more policy-heavy approach. The New York senator’s proposals include prohibiting corporations from deferring pensions when selling subsidiaries.

“[Halliburton] used this loophole to rob employees of $25 million in pension benefits,” Clinton said, “then they turned around and awarded then-CEO Dick Cheney with a $100 million sweetheart retirement deal” — to which the crowd booed.

Clinton also called for the re-assessment of all international trade agreements every five years in order to ensure fair compliance by all parties, but avoided specifically mentioning NAFTA, which was passed during her husband’s administration.

hmmm… Yes the Dems don’t like to talk about NAFTA.  At all.

According to the Kucinich press release, she stiffed the steelworkers on the traditional Q&A after what is, after all, just another stump speech (to be fair Edwards stiffed the reporters following his address to the union members).

“That’s what happened today when U.S. Senator Hillary Clinton addressed the United Steelworkers conference in Cleveland. Not only did she not participate in the question-and-answer portion of the program to which all of the Presidential candidates had agreed, but she also completely ignored one of the major issues that has forced millions of union workers and others into unemployment: the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).”

Further, Kucinich is absolutely right on here:

If anything, Senator Clinton has an even higher obligation to address this issue because NAFTA was enacted during the Clinton Administration. Someone needs to ask where the Senator stands. And the Senator has a responsibility to answer.”

I am sure she ran off to read Isaiah. So, so, so important.  Perhaps the Steelworkers should ask her about Isaiah.  That being more critical than……………… JOBS.


Last, for now, I caught a very disturbing segment on Lehrer’s News Hour Friday.

In Phoenix, 10 federal immigration officers work with the local police department to investigate crimes that involve illegal immigrants. As more cities mull such collaborations, proponents say they help both agencies, but critics worry that they deter some crime victims from coming to police.

hmmm a little more problematical than that…  and who pops up but Sheriff Arpaio, in Maricopa Co, with the most aggressive policy:

JEFFREY KAYE: Gutierrez is particularly disturbed by the practices of the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Department in southern Arizona. Renown for its tent jail, it also has the most aggressive anti-illegal-immigrant policy of any local law enforcement agency in the country. Not only do jail deputies interrogate foreign-born inmates.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we’re going to do is, we’re going to head up north up the US-60.

JEFFREY KAYE: Deputies on patrol also question suspects and witnesses about their immigration status. They are part of a so-called III, or illegal immigrant interdiction strike force. Seventy-two Maricopa County deputies cross-trained by ICE seek out illegal immigrants in a program set up by Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

And you know it’s going to spread:

JEFFREY KAYE: The deputies book the driver on a charge of violating Arizona State’s anti-smuggling law and accuse the other eight of conspiring to smuggle themselves into the United States. If convicted, they could all serve state prison sentences of almost four years, before being deported.

JOE ARPAIO: The smuggler and the smugglees, co-conspirators, they all go directly to jail. We do not call ICE, like everyone else does, to turn those people over, so they can get a free ride back to Mexico. They go directly to the jail that I run.

ALFREDO GUTIERREZ: It’s a tragic, outrageous interpretation of the law.

JEFFREY KAYE: Gutierrez thinks the sheriff has gone too far. He says those being smuggled should not be charged.

ALFREDO GUTIERREZ: The law is specific to human smuggling. The law is not about those who are desperately trying to get here to work. Those people are going to be punished. They’re going to be sent back.

JOE ARPAIO: I asked the county attorney for an opinion, and he gave me the right opinion, that we could lock up the people that are being smuggled in. So, we arrested so far 550. We are the only law enforcement agency in this whole state enforcing all aspects of the state law.

JEFFREY KAYE: ICE is expanding its cross-training program. Seventy-one law enforcement agencies around the country have either requested training or are receiving it, so their officers can do immigration checks.

JOE ARPAIO, Maricopa County, Arizona, Sheriff: Now, my deputies, when they patrol, can put the ICE hat on and arrest the illegals. And we bring them to jail.


   Elephant Head on I-19 near where the check point will be.  AZ Daily Star photo
Elephant Head rock is a prominent landmark visible from the I-19 locale where the Border Patrol may set up a permanent checkpoint. [A.E. Araiza / arizona daily star]

Tuston dropped me this, the plans are moving right ahead for a permanent check point in his neck of the AZ scrub brush, 31 miles inland from the border.  Miss Giffords, the centrist (oh she’s really a progressive) the blahgs championed, is all over the map about it, by design, I would say… 😉

The Border Patrol’s Tucson Sector had been prohibited from opening permanent checkpoints since 1999 by a congressional mandate championed by since-retired Rep. Jim Kolbe, R-Ariz.

Kolbe argued that permanent checkpoints would serve little purpose because smugglers know where they are and can go around them.

The move toward a permanent checkpoint has upset a large contingent of community members in Tubac and Green Valley who have vehemently protested it on the grounds that a permanent checkpoint would be ineffective and detrimental to business and property values.

Gus and Beverly Amado, whose cattle and horse ranch just south of Elephant Head Road east of kilometer 50 has been in the family for five generations, are worried about the large building, lights and semitrailers that would be passing through. They are dreading the inconvenience, too. They would have to go through the checkpoint to get their mail in Amado.

“It changes the valley forever,” said Beverly Amado. “It will never be the same. People in Congress, the Border Patrol, they come and go, but we’re here forever.”

And then Miss Giffords, straddling the political map:

Rep. Giffords stops short of fully endorsing permanent checkpoints, but she’s been vocal about the ineffectiveness of temporary checkpoints, which she called “disastrous” in terms of stopping illegal immigration and drugs.

“I’m not going to sit back and not do everything in my power to bring the maximum amount of border security to Southern Arizona,” Giffords said.

When asked whether that included permanent checkpoints, she answered, “I think all options should be on the table.”

Both Giffords and the Border Patrol have promised members of the work group that they’ll await their findings before deciding on a permanent checkpoint.

But, many community members have accepted that they may have lost the battle.

“They’ve already started what they are going to do,” Cullen said. “I don’t think they are being rude. I just think it’s a done deal.”

There you go:   “It’s a done deal” and “we are a set on a path from which it will be difficult to escape”…

… difficult to do anything much that is sane, ever again.  And what seems sane will be delusion or illusion or both. 


UPDATE, 12:09 am… balmy night in San Francisco

Just up in the NYT:

U.S. Aborted Raid on Qaeda Chiefs in Pakistan in ’05             


Published: July 8, 2007

WASHINGTON, July 7 — A secret military operation in early 2005 to capture senior members of Al Qaeda in Pakistan’s tribal areas was aborted at the last minute after top Bush administration officials decided it was too risky and could jeopardize relations with Pakistan, according to intelligence and military officials.

The target was a meeting of Qaeda leaders that intelligence officials thought included Ayman al-Zawahri, Osama bin Laden’s top deputy and the man believed to run the terrorist group’s operations.

Oh just more of that talking points confusion.  Abort, abort, abort abort, they thought safe legal and rare was the operational rule of engagement.  Recently Hillary added, and when I say rare, I mean rare.  (No she really did!  I am not kidding.) 

It really did sound like she meant a roast, turning on the spit, rather than a fetus.  Maybe she did, confusion you know.

Yup, exactly, we were very very confused.  We thought we needed permission:

Officials said one reason Mr. Rumsfeld called off the 2005 operation was that the number of troops involved in the mission had grown to several hundred, including Army Rangers, members of the Navy Seals and C.I.A. operatives, and he determined that the

United States could no longer carry out the mission without General Musharraf’s permission.

It is unlikely that the Pakistani president would have approved an operation of that size, officials said.

They really think we will buy that…   Leave ’em laughing… 8)


Oh those rascally rabbity NYT guys.  If you read to the end of the article you get the prize:

In his recently published memoir, George J. Tenet, the former C.I.A. director, said the intelligence about Mr. bin Laden’s whereabouts during the Clinton years was similarly sparse. The information was usually only at the “50-60% confidence level,” he wrote,

not sufficient to justify American military action.

“As much as we all wanted Bin Ladin dead, the use of force by a superpower requires information, discipline, and time,” Mr. Tenet wrote. “We rarely had the information in sufficient quantities or the time to evaluate and act on it.”

Swell with pride.  Or bullshit.




1. lucid - 8 July 2007

…or he was (cough, cough) still on the payroll…

Hi kids!

Sorry Wilfred if I wrote an offensive post last night – I got drunk and came home to Bono sponsered by BP and Lexus bringing us ‘earth day’ and got kind of upset… because, well, Bono upsets me.

Anyhow 🙂 🙂 🙂 ‘s to Mcat.

2. ms_xeno - 8 July 2007



Who gives a royal rat’s ass if the Democrats speak good English, finish a sentence, or handle questions well? Look at the policies, for Christ’s sake./

Swiped from Scruggs, who swiped it from Distant Ocean, who was “inspired” by Digby’s drool about Clinton.

Come to think of it, Billy Boy really is the Bono of politics. Or Bono is the Billy Boy of pop music. I meet so many genuinely involved, thoughtful people who just go into a creepy hypnotic daze at the mention of either name. Their eyes glaze over, their tongues hang out, they sigh and swoon. It’s frightening, because these people use actual common sense in their daily lives and you wonder where it goes the minute you mention the name of some good-looking, charismatic asshole dripping in money. It’s like an even-cheesier version of the Cold War Cheezefest, Telefon. Wanna’ deactivate any movement for social justice and humane values ? Just say the trigger word and watch the operatives go into their pre-programmed trance !! :p

Oh, and thanks for the bowl-floating image, Mcat. Speaking of retro-cheese: Now I’ll have this stuck in my head for the rest of the day.

3. ms_xeno - 8 July 2007

And of course, I fuck up the tags my first day back. [blush]

Sorry, Mcat. I only got up this early because the =^..^= squad was hungry.

4. wozzle - 8 July 2007

The information was usually only at the “50-60% confidence level,” he wrote, not sufficient to justify American military action.

Meanwhile, the current WH squatters consider the confidence levels need only be a tad lower to do any damn fool thing we please.

5. wozzle - 8 July 2007

Well, if I’m a taxpayer in Maricopa County, I take oberfueher Sheriff Arpaio to the rack for wasting my taxes on prisoners that don’t belong in county jails.

6. Tuston - 8 July 2007

Ms. Giffords swore up and down to the Tubaquenos before the November election that she wouldn’t let the checkpoints become permanent. Rep Kolbe (R-gay chickenhawk) held the BP at bay, whatever else his faults were. Now she flies over the area in big black DHS Sikorsky Helo’s says that “temporary checkpoints aren’t working” and has the assault rifle armed NG patrol Tubac in unmarked vans at night to “keep us safe” from the smugglers trying to avoid the reten north of town.

Despite the pantomine even the dumbest know Gabby G. is part of the “done deal” and her popularity is tanking; during the morning news shows and on the evening local news we get commercials puffing up her efforts. “first min. wage increase in years, its hard to change DC but Giffords is off to a good start”. Fucking bullshit on a tortilla will never be mole, but we still will have to eat it.

BTW Carol Cullen, who Marisacat quotes saying “..not rude. done deal” is a local DP apparatchak and Pretzldent the insular and incestuous Tubac Chamber of Commerce and works hand in glove with the Rethug Developers (guess who fingers who on that score?)

One final thing; Asshole Arapaio and Maricopa county isn’t the only local law enforcement being used to “interdict illegals”. Pima County (Tucson’s part of it, but Tubac isn’t) has reassigned and retrained their youth gang task force money (all of 7 officers) to patrol the border region (the Tohono O’dham reservation is in Pima and its southern boundry is the international border). We elect our Sheriffs in AZ, at Pima’s Dupnik, a Dem, is probably hedging his bets for next years election.

Well, George S. has Conyers on this morining and I can’t wait to watch the Kabuki…

7. wilfred - 8 July 2007

Hey lucid, I checked LSF this morning and there was no post from you. What ever did i miss?

Looks like I missed Bono, BP and Lexus too, were you watching the NBC ‘clip show version’? I was watching it on the Sundance Channel and the coverage was great and I was spared Bono on top of it.

Good to see the comments back up Marisa.

8. Gayle - 8 July 2007


Our long, national nightmare is over! Thanks, MCat!

Or is this just an oversight? *Gulp*

9. Gayle - 8 July 2007

““the use of force by a superpower requires information, discipline, and time,” Mr. Tenet wrote.”

Unless there’s oil under your soil!

10. aemd - 8 July 2007

“Recently Hillary added, and when I say rare, I mean rare.”

Yep, she speaketh in code words. LOL. Wonder how much legislation she will sign to show she means it? How many DFLers are backing her? A lot, I’ll bet.

Piece of work, that one.

11. jam.fuse - 8 July 2007


Francis Holland rips into ‘the other M&M’.

MLW is offline, possibly due somehow to his 200 plus comment inducing diaries posted there(?).

12. supervixen - 8 July 2007

Hello! Communication lines are again open. “Watson, come here, I need you.”

lucid: Bono is upsetting. And boring at the same time. His music sucks too. I liked what Beatle George had to say about him and U2: “Egotistical rubbish”.

13. Sabrina Ballerina - 8 July 2007

Hi, lucid – BP, a corporation with a horrendous human rights record, airc. Anyhow, hope you don’t have a hangover …. 🙂

Marisacat, love that Republican ‘surge’ to the anti-war side lol! There is ‘cautious’ excitement in the blogosphere that we will see that the Dem ‘strategy’ will work after all! The caution is only because of the outpouring of condemnation and skeptism exhibited after Dems funded the war a short time ago. Had that not happened, they’d be really selling this lie and using it to collect more money. They do have to thread a little more carefully now, at least until their masters give them something, anything that they can use to bring back the masses to the ‘mooovement’.

Still waiting for one of them, Hillary? Obama? Edwards? anyone? maybe one of those left-leaning Repubs, to talk about the real reason we are there! And about what they intend to do with the bases and the embassy and the enormous private army, if they really are serious about any kind of ‘withdrawal’.

Maybe someone in the press could ask? Or maybe a blogger could earn their insurance coverage and use that ‘people-power’ they supposedly have and start asking the right questions, instead of regurgitating the rhetoric passed on to the media, which more and more, includes them. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I won’t hold my breath, but maybe when I next call my Rep. I’ll just ask him myself … I’d ask Hillary, my Senator, but she doesn’t respond to constituent questions –

14. Sabrina Ballerina - 8 July 2007

Ooooh, waving at everyone – nice to see everyone ….

Jam-fuse, I read the ‘Marcos family history’ diary last night! Wow! I did like the comment that equated DK’s thread thugs to the tactics used in Central America. That’s how I always viewed them from the first time I saw the disgusting pile-ons with the full approval of the cowardly Mr. Moulitsas himself.

His family history may not reflect directly on him, but if you grow up in an atmosphere that doesn’t outright condemn these kind of tactics, it’s no surprise that he would enjoy watching his thugs gang-up, as they did on hrh (remember his comment in that thread, hoping she’d survive a little longer, just for the hell of it, with no sense of the unfairness or evil that was going on there).

I wonder how much more people will have to learn about that site before they just stop supporting it or anything it promotes, ie, candidates.


Tuston, thanks for keeping us informed about border issues, something the media doesn’t cover either. I have a question regarding that vile piece of human garbage, ‘Asshole Arapaio’. A friend of mine was working on a series of articles about him last year, she is a reporter, independent and I was horrified by what she told me about him. Not to mention my own reaction to the media coverage of his gulag.

My qestion is, is that prison private, or do the ‘political prisoners’ he’s holding there work for free for private corporations? I just wondered.

15. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

Oh, more interesting signs of our sinking beneath the waves, kicked in the head by the arm businessmen and agribusinessmen and the politicians they own, safe in the lifeboats.

As for the agrifuel thing, one of the best plants to use for fuel is still illegal to grow, hemp, even though it grows in much harsher environments, does not deplete the soil like corn and other heavily engineered plants, and is potentially useful for many different uses. The federal government has persecuted an Oglala leader who has tried to make hemp a cash crop for the Nations.

Good to have you back open for pontificating, my friend.


16. jam.fuse - 8 July 2007

U2 did some great work early on, they just should have broken up a few decades ago… not much of rhythm section someone said

Simon & Garfunkel’s Bookends:
first LP I ever purchased, Livingston Mall, NJ, circa ’72 I’m guessing

17. marisacat - 8 July 2007

sorry for the delay in comments. Fell asleep and left it in moderation… 😉

I also slept thru COnyers on This Week, which I had meant to catch..

did anyone?

18. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

When idiot Republicans awake, and quote Hunter S. Thompson.

After a long description of how much he’s loved our long line of shitty criminal Republican Presidents, he writes:

This made me think about what Hunter S. Thompson wrote after Ford pardoned Nixon in 1974:

“Well… this is going to be difficult. That sold-out knucklehead refugee from a 1969 ‘Mister Clean’ TV commercial has just done what only the most cynical and paranoid kind of malcontent ever connected with national politics would have dared to predict…

“If I followed my better instincts right now, I would put this typewriter in the Volvo and drive to the home of the nearest politician — any politician — and hurl the g****** machine through his front window … flush the bugger out with an act of lunatic violence then soak him down with mace and run him naked down Main Street in Aspen with a bell around his neck and black lumps all over his body from the jolts of a high powered “Ball Buster” cattle prod.

“But old age has either mellowed me or broken my spirit to the point where I will probably not do that — at least not today, because that blundering dupe in the White House has just plunged me into a deep and vicious hole.”

After Bush scrubbed a stay in the gray bar hotel for Scooter Libby, I sat in my study for a long time, drink in hand, and eyed my 1970s IBM Selectric typewriter with dark intentions. Would I have to do jail time for chucking an old machine through a politician’s window in an act of angry protest while Libby roamed free? Once charged, I would be obliged to find an attorney who would defend me on the grounds of justifiable outrage and a strike for common sense. In the end, though, I would just have a lamentable conviction on my record and have to pay for the living room window of someone who might be just as fed up as I.

Libby should have gone to jail, period. He was found guilty, sentenced by a judge and his bid to put off his jail time during appeals was rejected by a panel of judges.

It’s interesting the things that will push people too far.

19. Tuston - 8 July 2007

Howdy SB (and all)

My qestion is, is that prison private, or do the ‘political prisoners’ he’s holding there work for free for private corporations?

No, it’s the Maricopa County Jail and typically the prisoners work for the county picking up trash/weeding/clearing brush etc. along public roadways and parks…

20. Tuston - 8 July 2007

Yeah, I caught Conyers

He was weak, stumbled on his words and when cornered on Impeachment said “well if I do I’m sure I’ll be on this show next sunday” or some such.

With our so-called “representatives” it is always all about them.

Conyers did adequately bat away the comparison between Scooter’s “commutation” and Mark Rich’s pardon, but just barely.

all in all the typical used bathwater you’d expect from Conyers at this point…

21. marisacat - 8 July 2007

it is always all about them.

yup. thanks for the review of Conyers. Doddery City, for the umpteenth time.

Probably his last highpoint was holding those hearings in small off the main route basement room.

22. marisacat - 8 July 2007

There is an editorial in the NYT this am… “The Road Home”.

And some lines in it are a balm to read. IF this was spring 2004. Instead of 5 going into 6 years later — and I just read it is now 12 bil a month, not 8.

But then you get to page 2 of the editorial and there is this:

This war diverted Pentagon resources from Afghanistan, where the military had a real chance to hunt down Al Qaeda’s leaders. It alienated essential allies in the war against terrorism. It drained the strength and readiness of American troops.

And it created a new front where the United States will have to continue to battle terrorist forces and enlist local allies who reject the idea of an Iraq hijacked by international terrorists. The military will need resources and bases to stanch this self- inflicted wound for the foreseeable future.

The Question of Bases

The United States could strike an agreement with the Kurds to create those bases in northeastern Iraq. Or, the Pentagon could use its bases in countries like Kuwait and Qatar, and its large naval presence in the Persian Gulf, as staging points.

There are arguments for, and against, both options. Leaving troops in Iraq might make it too easy — and too tempting — to get drawn back into the civil war and confirm suspicions that Washington’s real goal was to secure permanent bases in Iraq. Mounting attacks from other countries could endanger those nations’ governments.

Nothing new AND more bases.

23. outofwater - 8 July 2007

His wife’s name is Elisa. He never refers to her by name now, in fact now if he much mention her at all, it is by her function.

24. liberalcatnip - 8 July 2007

Hi all!

MLW is offline, possibly due somehow to his 200 plus comment inducing diaries posted there(?).

Not as sexy as that. It looks like soapblox is down.

Just watched Gravel on This Week taking the Dems to task again for not ending the war because people are dying. That’s the bottom line the rest of these spineless twits don’t seem to get and it needs to be repeated LOUDLY and OFTEN. As he said (paraphrasing): It’s not about winning politically, it’s about stopping people from dying.

25. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

I notice that the Republican defections, at least speechification wise, are coming after the Republicans go home for holidays. I have a feeling that they’re getting an earful when they show up at parades and picnics to shake hands, and they think these meager murmers will cool down the hoi polloi. Meanwhile, a far-right isolationist libertarian beats John McCain in fundraising, despite/because of his ties to the racist right.

Without a humanist, populist left to offer an outlet, a lot of populist energy is going to increasingly flow in Paul’s direction. Sadly, there IS no humanist, populist left in this country, unless you count “Sicko” and the CA nurses union.

26. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

speaking of which:

two more empty gestures.

27. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007
28. marisacat - 8 July 2007

I notice that the Republican defections, at least speechification wise, are coming after the Republicans go home for holidays.

also Domenici and Lamar Alexander are up for re-election.

I really think that is all this is about, a good firm sweep of small trash to clean up individual and group R image.

I noticed an hilarious thing at Fox right after Re_Election 04… the ROH, run of the house, news people over there would occasionally remind themselves of Bush, as tho there were already new impulses to consider. You would catch them: Oh right, HIM.

R have to create a picture of being separate.

I still don’t think either party, at the national level, is too stressd over him.

There aer some pretty hilarious comments from Reid in the carl Hulse piece in the NYT. All about how the firmament is shifting to the Great Plan the Dems had for Getting Us OUt of Iraq..

LOL. WOuld be a first.

29. marisacat - 8 July 2007

Roger Federer beats Rafael Nadal to win the Wimbledon tennis championship for the fifth time running, equalling Bjorn Borg’s record.

For more details: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

30. jam.fuse - 8 July 2007


U.S. Government Wants Lie Detector Tests at Airports and Border Crossings

The U.S. Government is soliciting bids for a project that, if implemented, could see travelers facing lie detector testing at airports, border crossings, and other high traffic venues. The project is sponsored by the Defense Academy for Credibility Assessment (DACA), which until recently was known as the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute (DoDPI). “Credibility assessment” is the U.S. Government’s latest buzzword for “lie detection” and supplants the now démodé “detection of deception.”

hat tip to http://www.pogue.ca for the lizink

31. jam.fuse - 8 July 2007
32. marisacat - 8 July 2007

OOW… at # 23

That sounds right… 😉

in the classic way his wife has performed the function by which [too often] women are sidelined. Two kids, one of each.

Job over. Maintenance program goes into place.

33. ms_xeno - 8 July 2007

…Sadly, Speaker Pelosi and the Democratic Congress will rue the day they took impeachment off the table. By disregarding the wishes of The People and making no effort to impeach Bush and Cheney, Speaker Pelosi will go down in history as the Speaker who permitted the most corrupt Administration in American history to perpetrate its crimes. She has secured her legacy as the spineless leader of a spineless Congress that defied the Constitution and sanctioned Bush and Cheney’s lies. The 110th Congress and its Speaker have become enablers, accomplices and accessories to the crimes…

From the link Madman provided. (Go, Madman !!)

I wonder if the mainstream feminist movement will someday feel a twinge of guilt for slobbering over her like she was the second coming, rather than just another Vichy in a skirt ? Or is it Quisling in a skirt ?

But I kid the mainstream feminist movement. And I have to get cracking on my book deal. 😉 Also, I’m reminded of how a pollster called me up in the midst of the Starr-induced frenzy over Billy’s blowjob. She kept reading me questions about who I thought looked better, Dems or Reps. I kept saying “Isn’t there a category that says, ‘I wish they’d all just disappear forever ?'” At first the pollster was just confused, but later on I distinctly could hear her stifling a chuckle or two. I apologized and terminated the questioning when I discovered that the only category available to me was “No opinion” or “Not sure.” Neither of which got to the heart of the matter. Then, or now. :/

34. marisacat - 8 July 2007


but but but!! NBC did a segment this week, all in a tiz. For the umpteenth year, foreign travel is down to the US.

Now by a whopping 17%.

LOL watch it fall.

One reason I won’t get on a plane now. AND I LOVE TO FLY, even in cattle car horror.

I always have trouble at check points, all my life.

God knows why. But now I have no energy to maintain humor. My breakpoint was ’98. I hd paid cash for a two night trip to that center of terrorist activity, Spokane WA. Even tho I had a slew of credit cards and a UAL mileage card. I had sold a piano out of the house, the friend asked to pay in cash so I paid a whopping 170.00 in cash at the UAL office in the Embarcadero. AND showed my various ID.

OMIGOD when I got to the airport (SFO). It was wand city. I had to drag my luggage over to one of only 4 in the nation (at the time) special super dooper ex-ray machines then drag it off the ramp get back in line to recheck in..

I was pretty mad. never flew UAL again (not a loss)

35. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

I apologized and terminated the questioning when I discovered that the only category available to me was “No opinion” or “Not sure.” Neither of which got to the heart of the matter. Then, or now. :/

Well, if you don’t pick one of the either/or poles, then you HAVE “no opinion”, because you won’t pick what is offered (“Lady or the Tiger?”), or obviously you’re “not sure” because you’re plainly too stupid to face the reality of your situation. Since operatively there is no difference between those two descriptions, it’s perfectly reasonable to lump them together, turning any other perspectives into a slurry of grey mush.

Such is “debate” in this “free” nation of distinct, unique “individuals”. Now hang up the phone and go buy something sexy to wear for your husband.

Geez …

36. marisacat - 8 July 2007

Door No 1, Door No 2 and Door No 3

… is not enough!

37. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007
38. Sabrina Ballerina - 8 July 2007

Tuston, thanks for the answer re Arapaio’s jail. I am sure there is money exchanging hands somewhere though. I have to check with my friend to see what she dug up …… so many horrors to contemplate, I forgot about this guy.

Marisacat, about tourism, I read and posted links to articles about two years ago that said that tourism was down by 17%. Europeans were finding other places to go, as well as ME travelers. I imagine those are old numbers – wouldn’t be surprised if its way higher.

Eg, when the stupid law requiring passports to go to Canada went into effect, they had to cancel the requirement because they couldn’t handle the requests. I think also, many Canadians (like my friends) have stopped coming here. Why would anyone want to come here when so many other countries are way more friendly to tourists?

Like you, I have not flown anywhere since the great WOT began …. I wish there would be a major boycott of all travel, maybe for a day or two each month. That would restore some sanity. We do have the power, too bad we don’t use it.


Mitm, thanks for the link re the Clinton impeachment. That was because two thirds of the population saw the hypocrisy of supporting impeaching a president for having an affair and lying about it! Lol! But the anti-impeachment, Bush-supporting ‘progressives’ on dk, always bring up the Clinton impeachment to scare everyone from using it as it was actually supposed to be used. It’s not working though. People are ANGRY! So good luck to the thugs over there trying to control people who never heard of their tiny corner of the internet.

Didn’t see Conyers, but he’s been hearing from the people, as has Nancy. But they need to hear more. Meteor Blades little attempt to corral the dissent while waiting for the clock to run out, was amusing. But smart from a strategic pov. Except this time, people are not fooled and do not look to dk for ‘leadership’ as Armando so hilariously claims.

They must have forgotten to tell Armando that the pretense of being in favor of impeachment was simply because they could not stem the tide of outrage, so better to ‘take the bull by the horns’ until it all blows over, then point out how ‘on board’ you were with the ‘rabble’! I wish they’d stop embarassing themselves.

39. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007
40. liberalcatnip - 8 July 2007

The new British security minister thinks it’ll take another 10-15 years to win the war on terror:

The battle to deal with radicalisation in the fight against terrorism could take at least 15 years to achieve, the UK’s new security minister has said.

Former navy chief Admiral Sir Alan West blamed jihadists outside the country for influencing young Britons, and said the terror fight was a “daunting task”.

He urged people to be un-British by “snitching” to the authorities.
Sir Alan said: “We’re talking about such a big change in the way people behave that it’s inevitably going to take 10 to 15 years, and that’s if we’re lucky, and that’s what I hope we can achieve.

“I think it would be wrong to pretend otherwise to the British nation.”

Sir Alan said jihadists outside the country were influencing young British men and women and that “we need to think about how we can change that”.

He added: “I used the word ‘snitch’ because I thought this would get everyone rather excited and interested, and I think that’s achieved that.

a la 1984 – how exciting!!

What a tool. There have been radicals as long as there have been human beings and this guy thinks terrorism can actually be wiped out in a decade or two? What’s he smoking?

And not a word about how the western imperialists trying to conquer the ME are influencing those young British minds either, of course. The empire’s hands are clean.

41. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

David Byrne took notice of our new travel policies last month:

Other countries that closed their doors in the past were (or are) Albania, Burma, North Korea, Turkmenistan and Red China (before their conversion to glorious authoritarian capitalism). It really worked well for all those guys.

42. marisacat - 8 July 2007


yeah I think it has been a long run. If it was 17% a couple years ago it is hovering around a quarter or more down by now.

Plus this is long standing. I remember in the late 90s a campaign that customs (meaning US Customs) needed to smarten up w/r/t overseas tourist non-US national travellers. I gather surveys and “fill in the card” responses were running with high dissatisfaction with treatment. and that would be at the big Intl. airports is my guess.

I always had a tough time at customs so my sympathies – and now it is worse.. The worst [for me] was 95. i was held for an hour, everything ws gone thru, I was frisked and asked to raise my upper clothing so they could see the waist band of my clothing (this was in public). I was singled out from 3 jumbo jets that landed at once.

I had to contain rage so I did not kill anyone. I don’t have that sort of energy anymore.

I literally “lost” my passport inside the house for a year. I was not sure I would travel again.

43. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

Crooks & Liars has Conyers up:

STEPHANOPOULOS: One of those individuals is the former White

House deputy political director, Sara Taylor. Her lawyer wrote a

letter yesterday saying that she wants to testify, but the White House

won’t let her.

In that case, who would you hold in contempt, the individual or

the White House? Her lawyers think she wants to testify.

CONYERS: Well, I certainly wouldn’t hold her in contempt. And

we’re in negotiations with Mr. Fielding in the White House. We’re

hoping that as the cries for the removal of both Cheney and Bush now

reach 46 percent and 58 percent, respectively, for impeachment that we

could begin to become a little bit more cooperative, if not amicable,

in trying to get to the truth of these matters.

We have so much more work to do, George, as you know. And we

keep getting stalled. They keep pressing us. We’re seeking

cooperation. This is not partisan in any way whatsoever. I would

have the same attitude if it were a Democratic president.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Congressman, we’re just about out of time. But

I’m surprised you put impeachment on the table there. Are you open to

pursuing that?

CONYERS: No, I didn’t put impeachment on the table. I was just telling you that 46 percent of the American people polled want Bush

impeached, and 58 percent want Cheney impeached. I’m saying…


CONYERS: They’re saying that we could — we could move — no,

well, if I — if I wanted impeachment, I would probably be on your

program next Sunday.


44. marisacat - 8 July 2007

Send Sir Alan a nice new poodle collar.

45. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

oh, sorry about the weird layout … I didn’t realize that the cut-and-paste got so scrambled.

46. marisacat - 8 July 2007

OK: just to alert,

Moderation is catching “L” and “M” again. Liberalcatnip, ms xeno and Madman. And once sent Madman to spam…

in case you notice delays.


47. marisacat - 8 July 2007

Conyers is stutter city.

Go home congressman. I am down to th nub. I might see more at this point from the DLC Linda Sanchez.

48. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

Lefsetz has two posts up about Live Earth (which I rather enjoyed, spending a lot of my time watching acts I wasn’t as familiar with … and Roger Waters, of course … who knew that Toni Collette was such an interesting singer?). I’ve always looked at these big things as an opportunity to be entertained, with some thought that maybe a few people would take away something more. Anyway, Lefsetz gave me some interesting things to think about:

Reasons We Don’t Care About Live Earth

Music doesn’t drive the culture. To think otherwise is to have no knowledge of the marketplace. I don’t think we GIVE A SHIT about a concert, PERIOD! Maybe lemonade stands for global warming, once again, get the public INVOLVED!

But it’s a sad state of affairs when the backlash is about Madonna holding interests in polluting companies and acts contributing to the problem with their travel. The acts used to be Gods, now they’re just one step above the celebutantes on TMZ. If you want to have cred today, unless you’re already an icon, you say NO! You DON’T want the opportunity to reach EVERYBODY, you’re fearful of alienating your core audience. You want to cement the bond with YOUR people first and foremost.


Hypocrisy-In Case You Missed It

Today’s credible acts are in bed with their audience. They answer fan e-mail. They don’t try to be better, but EQUAL! It started with the Dave Matthews Band, but now, with the Net in full bloom, new acts with an everyday character are going to rule. At least those who last more than five minutes.

Like Jack Johnson. He foresaw the backlash, he created a green recording studio, he’s been dedicated to the cause for years. Madonna? A PHOTO OP! A way to get more publicity, to be in the public eye!

That’s the old way.

But if that way were working, why would sales of “superstars” be tanking?

We live in a pull economy, not a push one. Madonna is on the verge of becoming a laughable joke. This wasn’t necessary, if only she and her handlers were living in the TWENTY FIRST CENTURY!

All your dirty laundry? You can’t keep it in the hamper, it’s going to come out. If your past is going to contradict your present, SHUT THE FUCK UP! Otherwise, do a preemptive strike.

If Kevin Wall and Al Gore had been smart, they would have gotten Bob Geldof’s approval IN ADVANCE! They would have signed up their naysayers. To blunt their attack. Instead, every mainstream publication quotes Sir Bob, wondering what the effect of these shows will be.

It’s funny to watch the boomers, those running the old establishment, colliding with the new world. There’s a generation gap almost as big as there was in the sixties. Sure, today’s kids listen to our music, but THEY’RE COMPUTER SAVVY! And, it’s less about rising above than BEING A MEMBER OF THE GROUP!

There’s no study of their culture. Just a ramming down their throat of the major media companies’ priorities.

Those pesky kids who ruined the labels’ bottom line? They’re gonna TAKE OVER THE BUSINESS! And it’s not going to look the same! They were laid off at the majors, only the old, overpaid assholes kept their jobs. Oh, how stupid this was.

It’s funny to watch. The old guard HAS LOST ITS WAY!

Sorry to grab so much of the second one, but it was too good to pick out just part.

49. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

oops, can’t html properly today!

50. marisacat - 8 July 2007


I LOVED Live Earth, The Concert. i watched what was available via NBC (about 4 hours). It was wonderful. Mostly NYC, London and a bit from Shanghai…

but the segments that NBC put on with Ann Curry in a booth at Meadowlands (or whereever it ws) were awful. I esp cringed during Sting and the wif. all of them really. + Carson Daly.

But the music, as part of the great tradition of summer music festivals and blockbuster shows, was wonderful! No question…

51. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

I watched a lot on the streaming feed online. Caught some very good stuff from Australia, South Africa (who’s predict that Angelique Kidjo and Joss Stone would perform so well together?). Blue King Brown in Australia were quite good. The duet between Keith Urban (who I really pay little or no attention to … if I want to listen to watered-down Lynyrd Skynrd I’ll dig out my greatest hits cd) and Alicia Keys was a pleasant surprise.

Toni Collette and the Finish had this wonderful Ute-Lemper-crossed-with-Aussie-bar-rock vibe (cool cover of “Children of the Revolution” at the end of their set). Some of the singers on the German Stage were wonderful too (I thought Maria Mena was quite charming and different). I get a kick out of that weird pop, like Kumi Kodo, that is so popular in Japan.

Gonna take more than appeals to selfish, painless self-interest to get western culture to change, but many of the performances were fun, and some good acts might get some more attention. Contrary to popular opinion over at Little Orange Footballs, I’m not all-that-much of a purist when it comes to political statements and involvement, and sometimes just having someone say SOMETHING other than the usual is a refreshing change.

52. ms_xeno - 8 July 2007

Cheez. When was Madonna ever anything but a joke ? She stole her schtick from Betty Davis (aka the former Mrs. Miles Davis), and Mae West, who in turn stole her own schtick from a bunch of Blueswomen in the 1920s “race records” market.

I never got used to all the feminists on the Ms. boards back in the day who worshipped her like some kind of goddess. Just as I never got used to how their eyes would glaze over when I’d point out that June Carter was music royalty long before that guy she married ever was.

BTW, this weekend was Portland’s annual “Safeway” (groan) Waterfront Blues Festival. Apparently much more successful than last year’s, owing to better weather. I caught a little of Marcia Ball’s and Joan Armatrading’s appearances, as well as a few lesser-known folks who sounded great. Thanks to KBOO live broadcasting the show for those of us with too many obligations to get down to the river.

53. ms_xeno - 8 July 2007

Re: #35. When they finally pack me off to Guantanamo, I’m requesting the cell next to Madman’s. 😀

54. ms_xeno - 8 July 2007

The Oregon Food Bank puts the current total donation via the Blues Fest at $545,000 in cash donations (thanks to an $8 entry fee). So far. Today is the last day, so more should be coming in. Attendees are also invited to bring two cans of food to donate when they show up.

55. lucid - 8 July 2007

Wilfred – I was referring to the bizarro post I put up at my place the other night. I just have a serious disconnect when watching stadium shows sponsored by major polluting entities that are putatively supporting either environmental causes or some form of sustainable economics. I turned on Bravo & the little Lexus & BP logos were floating in the right bottom corner of the screen and I threw up a little in my mouth… and thought about Bono.

Jam.fuse – I agree on early U2. War is a particularly good album [and the live at Red Rocks one]. I just wish Bono hadn’t turned into a pompous papist ass.

MitM – I hope the industry will change. But while they still control distribution & major media channels, it is difficult for alternative industry models to emerge. And it is also difficult for talented musicians to ply their craft. Working a 40 hour week makes it difficult to tour – you need support & that support must come from an industry.

56. liberalcatnip - 8 July 2007

Send Sir Alan a nice new poodle collar.

I just wrote a post about the new poodle’s delusions.

57. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

It always bugged me that Tracy Chapman became so popular while Joan Armatrading was all-but ignored.

Madonna, at one time, did do some interesting pop performance art, in the way she combined music, dance, her videos and subverting people’s expectations of how a “hot” female singer was supposed to act. She never deserved the worship that Paglia used to lob at her, but operating in the top 40 universe, she did sneak in some subversive stuff. As for whether she did that stuff intentionally or by accident, who knows?

They won’t lock me up at Gitmo ms_x. Should my tiny little keytaps ever get that kind of attention, they’ll probably just nail shut the door to the apartment that I don’t leave as often as I should except to work. If they did it on a Friday night I might not even realize it had happened until Sunday afternoon.

58. marisacat - 8 July 2007

LOL catnip

I decided Gordon Brown is the lovely grey poodle in yesterday’s pic. He is allowed a neutral rinse and some slight deference to his title.

Now for Sir Alan… maybe the pale green poodle.


59. marisacat - 8 July 2007

well I never worshipped madonna but I did love Desperately Seeking SUsan.

I thought her Marilyn attemtps (the diamonds routine in particular) fell remarkably very very very flat. The movie, what was th title, was dullsville. The one supposedly candidly filmed of her going thru the days.

Mostly in interview she is dull.

Between kabalah (what a con that couple is) and adoption, I long ago fell away.

60. lucid - 8 July 2007

While I don’t worship her, I do give Madonna a lot of credit & I think music purists have been far too harsh. She’s savy about the business, has always worked with top producers [like the decision to work with William Orbit on Ray of Light – brilliant in my opinion I still think it’s her best album] & the spectacle of some of her tours [like Blond Ambition] has been pretty cool. I have to confess to tearing up the first time I watched the ‘Bring People Together’ cut from Truth of Dare.

And MitM, I also must confess that I adore Tracy Chapman. Her breakout album still spends a fair amount of time on my turntable. Then again, it might also be that the summer “Fast Car” broke, I was working as a supermarket bag boy, so it kind of struck a chord.

61. jam.fuse - 8 July 2007

(worked out, had a drink, feeling relaxed now — hi Sabrina, marisa and all you badass intellectual types)

Madonna put out some jamming dance tracks in her day (‘Holiday’, etc.), and seems to always work with quality musicians and producers.

I always opine she stole and marketed Cindy Lauper’s persona, who is a much better singer.

‘Fast Car’ by Tracy Chapman made her an overnight sensation.

I’m not really familiar with Joan Armitrading’s work — what’s her best album, MitM?

62. jam.fuse - 8 July 2007

ha ha lucid, great minds…

63. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

AIG Creation Museum refuted by fossils found beneath museum.

Not that physical reality means anything to the religious nuts, but this is still rich.

64. liberalcatnip - 8 July 2007

(worked out, had a drink, feeling relaxed now — hi Sabrina, marisa and all you badass intellectual types)

Screw raising money for health care, I say we ask for donations for tiaras.

65. wozzle - 8 July 2007

MCat, thanks for opening comments – it’s really nice to read everyone in the same place again (altho MBM was none too shabby).

66. jam.fuse - 8 July 2007

lol libcat

67. ms_xeno - 8 July 2007

Joan Armatrading: 2-way tie between Back To The Night (1974?) and Walk Under Ladders (1983?) for best album. Runners-up: The Key(1984?) and Show Some Emotion (1977).

Well, I heard several hard-core Odetta fans complain that Armatrading was “stealing” from her. [snerk] I guess show biz can only handle one Black woman with a guitar at a time. And Armatrading groused about Chapman. Plus la change… I think the real enemies of decent musicians are pigeonhole squads of marketers and so-called critics. But WTF do *I* know ?

Maybe if you dug up Elizabeth Cotten, she’d be grousing about all the stuff Odetta stole from *her.* Bah.

68. lucid - 8 July 2007

Are those real diamonds catnip? 😉

69. Sabrina Ballerina - 8 July 2007

Marisacat, #35 – that is a horror story – and before the GWOT! Or could be just some perv who likes to maul females. They certainly have been accused of doing that and some of their ‘methods’ were rolled back after complaints from women travellers a few years ago.

I recall one Congresswoman who found the searches so intrusive she drove seven hours to DC rather than subject herself to the abuse. I can’t remember her name now, but I think several cases involving complaints especially from women, and threats of lawsuits, did have some effect.


Hey, Catnip, loved your posts on The Townhouse list and especially your hilarious post on the Armando/MB show! Looks like Armando has won that battle. Lots of FP copy and pastes of newspapers calling for an end to the war, with his little sidekick, the always snide, and nasty Andgarden having a diary promoted to the FP. No more impeachment porn on the FP. Banned! Heh!

Loads of excitement over the NYT editorial (and please, do NOT confuse the editorial pages with the news pages! You know, we are all so incapable of making these distinctions!) Too funny, these self-important unknowns except in their own small universe! Anyhooo, great excitement that the NYT is catching up with ‘The Netroots’!

The NYT helped sell this war with the help of Judith Miller and the multi-million dollar PR agency, The Rendon Group airc. They openly admitted to being hired to do so and mentioned who they would ‘go to’ with their false stories.

To display any kind of gratitude to a publication that more than any other, contributed to giving credibility to this lying gang of criminals in the WH, is simply another sign of the ‘Netroots’ representing the so-called progressive community, abused spouse syndrome! All is forgotten when he brings flowers after the beatings!

The NYT now posturing as a proponent of ‘bring them home’ is laughable! And what a lie they tell when they say about Bush ‘Whatever his cause was, it’s lost’! No, it is not! Billions of dollars have been funnelled to the MIC and Iraq’s oil will be privatized with huge profits for the Oil Cos. That was the mission. Bush has been extremely successful. So, their call to bring home the troops now is more than a little disengenuous.

The paper has no credibility, and one editorial will not change that to anyone who is not surfering from amnesia.

70. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

don’t get me wrong, Chapman has some nice stuff, but Joan’s work is richer, more complex and interesting.

Jam, I’d start with Joan Armatrading, but there are some decent compilations available, as her stuff belongs to the Universal multiplex, a distributor/label/hegemony that LOVES to repackage the same songs into multiple collections marketed at different kinds of consumers.

Watch Love and Affection.

I liked “Track Record” a lot. “Under Ladders” is good and I have a soft spot for “Hearts and Flowers”, though the critics badmouthed it.

This compilation covers all the highlights, though it’s two discs, so I don’t know if you want to commit. The single disc (and cheap) “Gold” complilation hits the major highlights.

71. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

ms_x, good point on the Odetta thing. Hell, all pop music is “theft”. Willie Nelson jokes frequently about where he stole a melody or line from.

I never held it against Chapman (well, maybe a little), but rather against an industry that markets artists as though they were pegs to be plugged into the appropriate “market segment”. As you said, there was only room for one black, female “folk” artist at a time according to those Ausberger-sydromed publicists for the labels.

72. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

Impressive Young Women Speaking Up

I wish all Americans were half this smart, articulate and driven by conviction.

73. Gayle - 8 July 2007

MM, I’d like to lob some things at Paglia’s head.

Sabrina- You’re right about the FP, but I have to admit I’m heartened by the Diaries as of late. I’m a pessimist by nature, and even so, I think impeachment is very much back on the table– The Democrats just don’t know it yet.

Too many people –outside of blogworld– are clamoring for it! Rather than acting as the drivers of political action, the netroots, like the party they support, are falling way behind the American people in this.

74. jam.fuse - 8 July 2007

Odetta clip in Scorcese’s Dylan bio is riveting

as are all of them (clips of little known singers of the fifties, methimk)

75. marisacat - 8 July 2007

I LOVE Cyndi lauper. And love her latest persona… think she intro’d it a coupe of years ago… sort of Lauper at 50 (and divine).

I absolutely give Madonna credit for very savvy business sense. Breakout mode – a bit.

But let’s hear it for anonymously adopting a village rather than absconding with the children. To all the celebrity mothers who want a Benetton ad – endless tabloid pictures of [imported] children hanging off them

Very very offensive.

76. thebokononist - 8 July 2007
77. JJB - 8 July 2007

Hi everybody, nice to have this forum back up and running. Thanks to MCat, glad to know you’re feeling up to it again.

Now to get back to spewing and snarling . . .

Just how loathsome an individual is Colin Powell? Read this and ponder:

THE former American secretary of state Colin Powell has revealed that he spent 2½ hours vainly trying to persuade President George W Bush not to invade Iraq and believes today’s conflict cannot be resolved by US forces.

“I tried to avoid this war,” Powell said at the Aspen Ideas Festival in Colorado. “I took him through the consequences of going into an Arab country and becoming the occupiers.”

Powell has become increasingly outspoken about the level of violence in Iraq, which he believes is in a state of civil war. “The civil war will ultimately be resolved by a test of arms,” he said. “It’s not going to be pretty to watch, but I don’t know any way to avoid it. It is happening now.”

He added: “It is not a civil war that can be put down or solved by the armed forces of the United States.” All the military could do, Powell suggested, was put “a heavier lid on this pot of boiling sectarian stew”.

The signs are that the views of Powell and other critics of the war are finally being heard in the Pentagon, if not yet in the White House. Robert Gates, the defence secretary, is drawing up plans to reduce troop levels in Iraq in anticipation that General David Petraeus, the commander in Iraq, will not be able to deliver an upbeat progress report in September on the American troop surge.

There really isn’t much to say about this except the following: If you, as Secretary of State, are opposed to the President launching a war and he does so anyway, you are morally obligated to resign. This is especially true if you know that his reasons for doing so are based on bogus intelligence reports that are very likely deliberate lies. To remain in office is bad enough, but to go before the United Nations and use these lies to convince the world of the righteousness of starting this war is utterly despicable. Anyone who does such a thing deserves to be condemned in the strongest possible terms, and further deserves to have their counsel rejected in the future. So is that happening to Colin? Read further:

According to Powell, the US cannot “blow a whistle one morning” and have all American forces just leave. The former secretary of state has twice met Barack Obama, the Democratic candidate, to advise him on foreign policy. Despite his antiwar stance, Obama supports a phased withdrawal that could leave a “significantly reduced force” in Iraq for “an extended period”.

Colin Powell is that last person any presidential candidate, Democrat or Republican, should be listening to at this point in time. May he rot in hell, and suffer a very painful, prolonged illness and death as a prelude.

78. lucid - 8 July 2007

Yes Mcat – Madonna completely lost my respect on that count [Angelina Jolie as well… my brother did NGO work in Cambodia around the time she adopted her first child & told me that it was an incredibly shady deal].

79. marisacat - 8 July 2007

And it is a REAL pity that Angelina (whose bona fides are thru Pitt and his association with BOno – IOW, from the group that will NEVER be too critical, ever) is allowed to party in the UN/UNICEF waters.

UTTER BULLSHIT. She has addressed the Council on For Relations (fine whatever, the assembled can play iwth a celebrity), and from what i heard on CRose the other night I think she is about to be some visiting Fellow.

Holy Fucking God.

80. JJB - 8 July 2007

Hi MCat, and everyone else.

I put up a long comment that I think is stuck in spam.

Good to see you all again!

81. Gayle - 8 July 2007

Number one on the

Oh, and Sabrina, I think we were both wrong about the FP. Kagro X appears to be on-board.

82. ms_xeno - 8 July 2007

[drift]Martin Scorcese really shafted the women in his epic Blues tribute. Gaye Adegbalola, was pissed enough to do something about it. (See paragraph 1.) She also has a fine-looking homepage, with a nice highlight here.

Mcat, I don’t think I’ve had too many spam problems today. Knock wood.

83. ms_xeno - 8 July 2007

SB, nice tirade at MBM. (Remember that I have a rotten temper. So if you all hear the word “tirade” from me, it’s probably a compliment. Well, nine times out of ten.) 😉

84. wozzle - 8 July 2007

ms-xeno, diatribe works nicely, as well. If you’re worried…

Regarding the artists discussed upthread – I’m delighted to say that I had the opportunity to see Joan Armatrading in DC, sometime before John Lennon died (~ 1978). In addition to being the favorite artist of a good friend of mine, she was outstanding live.

85. Sabrina Ballerina - 8 July 2007

Gayle, I agree re the diaries lately, they could not be stopped. There is a raging anger which only grows as each new outrage occurs. I don’t read the FP most of the time, it’s usually behind the news, which DU and other sites are far ahead on.

I also loved that when Dem Reps appeared offering weak words ie ‘this needs to change’ etc. it only enraged people more and they said so. The thread thugs tried to contain it but couldn’t. I laugh when they object to people actually telling their Reps what they think of them. These people are way too star-struck to be involved in politics. These Politicians absolutely need to know just how angry the people are. They want donations, then they need to understand why they were elected.

You’re right that they are so behind the national sentiment, but that’s because they work for the Party and the Party does NOT want to hold this administration accountable for some reason.

Good for Kagrox, he has been posting about it all along. But I doubt we’ll see MB doing it again. Unless in a diary, as he was instructed to do! 🙂

Mitm, thanks for the Conyers transcript – at least he’s been watching the polls and good he said the word on tv even if he mumbled about actually doing it. It put the idea into more people’s minds.

Conyers might want to start with Gonzales. That would show they are serious and I think it would be an easy case to make, especially with the American people.

Marisacat, I love Cindi Lauper also …. Madonna has some good stuff, but I always feel she’s too business oriented and calculated, but Cindy is real imo.

86. Sabrina Ballerina - 8 July 2007

Lol, ms xeno, I don’t even remember what I said, but I do remember your responses to the ‘A’ and ‘B’ list visitors! No one gets away with bs when you’re around, that’s for sure.

Gayle, good diary, thanks for the link ….

Waving at JJB, great to see you too …

thebokononist #76, Wow! Francis Holland really has done some homework on Kos. Don’t know how much of it means anything, but if he was born in Chicago and lied about it, (don’t know, will have to check the links) that’s not cool at all! And the question of where he got enough money to go from a poor little guy with a computer to where he is now, is a very valid one. But regardless, even without all that info, he is no liberal nor is his blog.

87. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

In Signs of the Times, Rigorous Intuition discusses Libby, semiotics and the deconstructionist Presidency of Dubya:

From the start there was an institutional incuriousness about the attacks, as there so often is when the institutions themselves benefit by them (“Blair rejects 7/7 inquiry calls”; “Putin rejects public Beslan inquiry”). Naturally any circle of high conspirators would be reluctant to have any light shed on the criminal events they enabled, but there’s a far broader circle of reluctance, that partakes of the Power that is enabled by the meaning of the crime. That is, those who stood to benefit by 9/11 were not limited to the relatively small number of perpetrators within the institutions of public life, because the perpetrators themselves partook of the larger circle of institutional power. Much of corporate media, including “alternative” corporate media, became co-conspirators after the fact simply by habit, because they inhabit and thrive within that outer circle. To acknowledge the possibility of a high crime of the magnitude of Kennedy’s assassination or 9/11 would be an invitation, not to gentle reform, but to revolution. And institutional power sends out such invitations only when it sees how it can come out on top again.

88. marisacat - 8 July 2007

I loved Armatrading’s voice. And it is years (20 maybe, losing track) since i heard it, but I seem to recall liking her timing or phrasing.

89. marisacat - 8 July 2007

Kos has long since stated he was born in the US. They returned, then came back to the US.

90. marisacat - 8 July 2007


I never could stand Colin – back decades. And if this were a decent country, neither Colin nor Tenet (nor Negroponte, the third that day) could show their face in public based on Feb 5 2003 ALONE.

I think all he wants to is wash clean and get a big pay out upfront for a book. Alma has been out bleating for something or other. Some call for civility or decency. APPALLING.

I also saw his (Colin’s) first appearance on Charlie Rose (in a sumptuous hotel room in DC, Charlie went there to greet and hosanna the Great Imperialist) post invasion. They literally licked each other and Colin was sweating pride.

Absolutely disgusting.

ANd all the too easy stories that Obama is consulting iwht Colin.

It should be regarded iwth horror. What does he want to do, be a black imperialist invading AFRICA? Under the guise of some genocide: I saved them from it?

Judging the applause [and there were some boos] for Hillary’s line at Howard about blowing the Sudanese pilots out of the air, hell maybe.

We are so fully skrewed.

91. ms_xeno - 8 July 2007

Ah, SB. Here I was feeling bad about taking MB’s bait about Nader. At this point, we really should stop humoring these jaggoffs every time they want to misdirect a conversation back to their favorite whipping boy. But I never did have much self-control.

Mcat, even though KBOO’s coverage of the Blues Fest doesn’t have the world’s best sound, I’d say that Armatrading still sounds pretty damn good. Though I didn’t get to listen to the whole set.

I last saw her in concert at Radio City Music Hall in ’85 or ’86, when she was promoting Secret Secrets. Still fun to listen to if badly dated production-wise. Joe Jackson slouched onstage to play piano for a couple of numbers.

92. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

Any of you music mavens here familiar with St. Vincent? I’m intrigued by that video, but wonder whether the whole disc would be worth the plunge.

93. marisacat - 8 July 2007

John Burns in the NYT. Selling the Ramadi miracle. Ducks and dicks lining up! Row formation!

have a barf bag at the ready.

Meanwhile Editor and Publisher called the NYT editorial “historic”.

94. liberalcatnip - 8 July 2007

I still need to catch up on all of the comments here.

Anyway, I wanted to highlight this comment by peeder that’s buried in one of holland’s diaries at MLW which was overrun by clammyc brawling it out in the schoolyard with donkeytale and stu piddy (yawn):

Markos decides on all bannings (9.00 / 2)
There may be an “autoban” function (I’m not sure if it has ever actually been triggered) but all bannings are up to him to uphold at least, unless he’s decided to delegate that power to one of his new staff members. He certainly has, ahem, pardon ability and the ability to commute a sentence.

It’s true that he believes that advertising an “autoban” function will deflect responsibility for a banning to the “trollhunters” and off of himself, hoping to avoid just this kind of vendetta, but then he goes and endorses the trollhunters anyway.

He should have contented himself with control of his front page, and tacitly accepted anything on the user side of the site that was vaguely on topic/Democratic. Changes to the software to salve user complaints would have been appropriate (e.g. an ignore feature). Instead he thought he could purify it as well into an “elite collegium” of only people that thought and acted like himself. This has only gotten worse.

Can anyone feign surprise that others are trying to hold him to similar standards of “purity?”
by: peeder @ Sat Jul 07, 2007 at 01:05:35 AM CDT

95. marisacat - 8 July 2007

Natan Sharansky bellies up with HIS ducks.

And it ain’t pretty. What an awful man. And he lectures us…

96. liberalcatnip - 8 July 2007

Think Progress headline: Conyers Raises Specter Of Impeachment, Highlights Support For Removing Bush And Cheney. Well except that he didn’t:

CONYERS: Well, I certainly wouldn’t hold her in contempt. And we’re in negotiations with Mr. Fielding in the White House. We’re hoping that as the cries for the removal of both Cheney and Bush now reach 46 percent and 58 percent, respectively, for impeachment that we could begin to become a little bit more cooperative, if not amicable, in trying to get to the truth of these matters.

We have so much more work to do, George, as you know. And we keep getting stalled. They keep pressing us. We’re seeking cooperation. This is not partisan in any way whatsoever. I would have the same attitude if it were a Democratic president.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Congressman, we’re just about out of time. But I’m surprised you put impeachment on the table there. Are you open to pursuing that?

CONYERS: No, I didn’t put impeachment on the table. I was just telling you that 46 percent of the American people polled want Bush impeached, and 58 percent want Cheney impeached. I’m saying…


CONYERS: They’re saying that we could — we could move — no, well, if I — if I wanted impeachment, I would probably be on your program next Sunday.

STEPHANOPOULOS: OK. Well, Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.

Impeachment is “off the table” but they think that threatening to do it when they won’t will act as some sort of incentive to get Bush to cooperate? Yeah. Now there’s logic for you.

97. Madman in the Marketplace - 8 July 2007

the Donks remain as dumb as a mule. That they can’t recognize a chance for REAL popular support is beyond pathetic.

98. Sabrina Ballerina - 8 July 2007

JJB said:

There really isn’t much to say about this except the following: If you, as Secretary of State, are opposed to the President launching a war and he does so anyway, you are morally obligated to resign. This is especially true if you know that his reasons for doing so are based on bogus intelligence reports that are very likely deliberate lies.

I couldn’t agree more – I do not know how he shows his face. I remember a few resignations before the war. The Ambassador to Greece, airc, wrote a beautiful letter of resignation saying he could not, in all conscience, continue to act as an Ambassador as he opposed the invasion of Iraq. He said also, that this appointment was a dream come true for him and that resigning it was very difficult for him. I remember wishing at the time, that others would follow his example. And he did NOT know what Colin Powell knew.

The resignation I remember was terror expert, Baer I think it was. Not sure as this is from memory. But there were examples of people who acted on principle.

As for the NYT editorial being ‘historical’ – it’s a little late, although the editorial page has been against the war. However, it was the news reporting that facilitated the lies and probably influenced the thinking of millions of Americans together with the media. Airc from history, the German propagandists were held responsible for their role in the crimes of the Hitler’s regime. But here, we ignore and ‘move on’ the role played by the press. They should be held accountable, but I know they will not.

Ms xeno, I noticed MB’s finger pointing away from the Dems ‘look over there at Ralph, he is responsible for all of our trouble’. They are like the rightwingers who ‘blame Clinton’ for everything. I remember that the most effective way to deal with them back then, was to pre-empt them and preface every comment with ‘Well, we know Clinton is probably responsible for this, but …. and then go on to the topic whatever it was’. Since that is MB’s tactic, next time just get it out of the way first! But you did a great job imo.

‘Kossacks’ are not used to people standing up to them. If anyone does, the troll patrol is always ready to shut them up and if that doesn’t work, ban them! It makes them pretty easy to beat in an argument once they leave their little protected environment.

Marisacat, I did think that kos had said he was born here. However, their thuggery is going to have consequences. They forget they are dealing with people. Francis Holland was hunted off that site. It was disgusting. So, whatever they may say about him, they initiated this vendetta and are more than likely to face lawsuits by people they smear with lies. I know of at least two people who have considered filing suits against certain troll hunters over there. Can’t say I blame them.

99. liberalcatnip - 8 July 2007

Oops. Didn’t see your post about Conyer’s cave at #43 Madman. Sorry for the double post.

Just read that NYT editorial. What a joke. They seem to forget that Turkish fighters have been crossing over the border to kill Kurds up there in Kurdish Disneyland – where everything is supposedly stupendously wonderful. So yeah – bad idea to be asking the Turkish gov’t for favours at this particular time, I’d say. (Doesn’t the NYT have any research staff or access to Google?)

Clueless NYT idea:

The United States should explore using Kurdish territory in the north of Iraq as a secure staging area. Being able to use bases and ports in Turkey would also make withdrawal faster and safer. Turkey has been an inconsistent ally in this war, but like other nations, it should realize that shouldering part of the burden of the aftermath is in its own interest.

(wag that finger!)


In response to recent attacks, including a bombing in Ankara in May that killed eight people, Turkey expanded its force along the border, deploying additional artillery and dozens of tanks. Iraqi border police say Turkey has 20,000-30,000 soldiers along its border with Iraq, and has set up a special security zone that restricts movement in the area.

Iraqi Kurdish villagers living near the Turkish border fear a Turkish invasion similar to that of 1997, when large numbers of Turkish forces crossed the border to fight the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), which wants an independent Kurdistan carved out of northern Iraq as well as parts of Iran and Turkey.

Turkey says the PKK is using mountain hideouts and friendly villages in northern Iraq to train and re-supply its fighters who operate mainly in Turkey.

Taking refuge

“The last time [Turkey invaded] hundreds of innocent people died and we hope that won’t happen again. This time, we had to flee our house and are taking refuge with some relatives near Zakho, but we cannot stay there long. We really don’t know what to do as we’ve left everything behind. We’re scared that our home will be destroyed, as has happened to some of our neighbours,” said Ezdin Destan, 47, a resident of Dashati village, near the Turkish border.

100. liberalcatnip - 8 July 2007

Je suis en spam.

101. marisacat - 8 July 2007

They should remember the Turks held off on doing us favors on the way in. It’s HIGHLY possible that the reverse (such as it would ever be) direction would NOT be liked better.

102. bayprairie - 8 July 2007

i cut madonna some slack yesterday after she began playing the les paul custom with the whiteguard that matched her dress and heels.

fun to watch, which i suppose is the point. visually stunning.

thanks for the warning about the “epic” dvd set. i’d been curious and wondered if i should bother, glad now i skipped.

no blues dvd sans women qualifies as epic. better off spending the money on rosetta tharpe!!!!!

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