Mamma Mia! Maybe they could just debate in smurfs costumes… 14 July 2007
Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election.trackback
Only this past June… a few weeks ago. Seems ages ago… 😉
The transcript from Moyers Journal is up, the Nichols and Fein appearance on Impeachment!
Here is a snip…
BRUCE FEIN: Yeah, of course, the– difference is one thing to claim that, you know, Gulf of Tonkin resolution, was too broadly drafted. But we’re talking about assertions of power that affect the individual liberties of every American citizen. Opening your mail, your e-mails, your phone calls. Breaking and entering your homes. Creating a pall of fear and intimidation if you say anything against the president you may find retaliation very quickly. We’re claiming he’s setting precedents that will lie around like loaded weapons anytime there’s another 9/11.
Right now the victims are people whose names most Americans can’t pronounce. And that’s why they’re not so concerned. They will start being Browns and Jones and Smiths. And that precedent is being set right now. And one of the dangers that I see is it’s not just President Bush but the presidential candidates for 2008 aren’t standing up and saying–
BRUCE FEIN: –“If I’m president, I won’t imitate George Bush.” That shows me that this is a far deeper problem than Mr. Bush and Cheney.
BILL MOYERS: That struck me about your writings and your book. You say your great– your great fear is that Bush and Cheney will hand off to their successors a toolbox that they will not avoid using.
JOHN NICHOLS: … On January 20th, 2009, if George Bush and Dick Cheney are not appropriately held to account this administration will hand off a toolbox with more powers than any president has ever had, more powers than the founders could have imagined. And that box may be handed to Hillary Clinton or it may be handed to Mitt Romney or Barack Obama or someone else.
But whoever gets it, one of the things we know about power is that people don’t give away the tools. They don’t give them up. The only way we take tools out of that box is if we sanction George Bush and Dick Cheney now and say the next president cannot govern as these men have.
BRUCE FEIN: Well, that’s accurate but also we do find this peculiarity that Congress is giving up powers voluntarily. because there’s nothing right now, Bill, that would prevent Congress from the immediate shutting down all of George Bush’s and Dick Cheney’s illegal programs. Simply saying there’s no money to collect foreign intelligence-
BILL MOYERS: The power of the purse-
BRUCE FEIN: –the power of the purse. That is an absolute power. And yet Congress shies from it. It was utilized during the Vietnam War, you may recall, in 1973. Congress said there’s no money to go and extend the war into Laos and Cambodia. And even President Nixon said okay. This was a president who at one time said, “If I do it, it’s legal.” So that it we do find Congress yielding the power to the executive branch. It’s the very puzzle that the founding fathers would have been stunned at. They worried most over the legislative branch in, you know, usurping powers of the other branches. And–
BILL MOYERS: Well, what you just said indicts the Congress more than you’re indicting George Bush and Dick Cheney.
BRUCE FEIN: In some sense, yes, because the founding fathers expected an executive to try to overreach and expected the executive would be hampered and curtailed by the legislative branch. And you’re right. They have basically renounced– walked away from their responsibility to oversee and check.
It’s not an option. It’s an obligation when they take that oath to faithfully uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. And I think the reason why this is. They do not have convictions about the importance of the Constitution. It’s what in politics you would call the scientific method of discovering political truths and of preventing excesses because you require through the processes of review and vetting one individual’s perception to be checked and– counterbalanced by another’s. And when you abandon that process, you abandon the ship of state basically and it’s going to capsize.
Oh the Democrats cannot wait:
BRUCE FEIN: Let me underscore one of the things that you remember, Bill, ’cause I was there at the time of Watergate. And this relates to one political– official in the White House, Sara Taylor’s testimony. And claiming that George Bush could tell her to be silent.
BILL MOYERS: That was a great moment when Sara Taylor said, “I took an oath to uphold the president.” Did you see that?
BRUCE FEIN: Yes. And that was like the military in Germany saying, “My oath is to the Fuhrer, not to the country.” She took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States. I did, too, when I was in the government. There’s no oath that says, “I’m loyal to a president even if he defiles the Constitution.”
JOHN NICHOLS: Ever.
JOHN NICHOLS: The hearings are important. There’s no question at that. And we should be at that stage. Remember, Thomas Jefferson and others, the founders, suggested that impeachment was an organic process. That information would come out. The people would be horrified. They would tell their representatives in Congress, “You must act upon this.” Well, the interesting thing is we are well down the track in the organic process. The people are saying it’s time. We need some accountability.
BILL MOYERS: But Nancy Pelosi doesn’t agree.
JOHN NICHOLS: Nancy Pelosi is wrong. Nancy Pelosi is disregarding her oath of office. She should change course now. And more importantly, members of her caucus and responsible Republicans should step up. It is not enough–
BILL MOYERS: Well, Bruce is not the only conservative–
JOHN NICHOLS: –and others are. But–
BILL MOYERS: And Bob Barr, who’s been here.
BRUCE FEIN: David Keene
JOHN NICHOLS: But they do so, by and large, in a cautious way. They say, “Well, the president’s done too much.” Let’s start to use the “i” word. Impeach is a useful word. It is a necessary word. The founders in the Constitution made no mention of corporation or political parties or conventions or primaries or caucuses. But they made six separate references to impeachment. They wanted us to know this word, and they wanted us to use it.
Whammo! Thanks fellas.
*************************************************
Fein:
One reason they shy away is that they push, as do right-wingers, the myth that crusades rushed into by fools would be winnable if only the fools threw more on the pyre. Since it’s hard to prove a negative, who can prove that another ten years of war would NOT have led to us defeating the Vietnamese ? Of course, a humane commentator or politician would merely point out that a victory in an unjust war does not change into something else. And that such a victory is simply too costly, at all levels, to entertain as a worthwhile goal.
Don’t wait up for that.
Oh, and Mcat, best thread title ever.
That stage back drop is terrible. It diminishes them and not in a good way. Hype Hype Hype.
VOTE CNN!!
Aaarrgghh !! That end bit should be:
Victory in an unjust war does not change it into something JUST.
I’m hanging it up for the day/skulking off in shame. 😦 Talk amongst y’selves. 😉
Healthcare vs. the Profit Principle
Loved the Moyers show last night, so glad you pulled stuff from it.
As far as the Dem debates, they should just call it “Quien es mas macho?’ because none of them come from a basic Democrat stance, that of the poor and working class. They are all faux-Republicans who deserve to be blasted every time they speak.
An indictment of Congress, absolutely. It’s clear they will not hold these criminals responsible by now. The push against it is so obvious, and from Democrats, like the Speaker of the House. And her enablers.
I missed that Moyers show, thanks for the transcript Marisacat … great comments from all of them. They are saying what many on dk have been saying. Good to see them put it so clearly. Nancy is violating her oath of office. Moyers et al would be banned at DK.
Congress has the power to stop the excesses of the executive branch, but this Congress clearly will not do so. All their excuses are bs. I think it’s time to put the effort into finding good candidates who are independent to run in districts all over the country. That seems to be the best way to change things right now.
I always liked Ralph, ms xeno (if you’re still around :-)) but my question always was, why didn’t he run for Congress? He never had a chance of winning the presidency, but I do think he could have won a Congressional seat. That might have encouraged others to do the same. Imo, people are ready to vote for a candidate who is not attached to either party. Look at the poll numbers for Congress … if ever there was a time, it is now. Instead of worrying about the presidential campaign we should focus on Independents for Congress.
Bowers on The party, Sheehan and coalition buidling.
LOL I never would have bothered today had martin not had a link at the top of his page… AND don’t miss dear “elise” in the thread.
So while i was there I read the piece on Kucinich / debate issues that was linked to in the previous thread.
what a mess.
The empty vessel is full of bitter wine this day and I shall not drink.
I havent really followed Open Left (it needs a nickname bad… open sore?) but my intial thought was that they figured out that DK was at the end of its life cycle and were trying to create a new “empty vessel” to drive the traffic to.
I used to know this owner of a club. He kept the same location but every 2-3 years redid. New Name, New Decor, New Concept. he just tried tp keep slightly ahead of the curve. One year it would be a hard rock venue the next a swell martini dive.
The people who do bars/restraunts/clubs remind me a lot of the bloggers. One group owned all the bars on one particular strip. Most people didnt know this. during teh week they had this thing where they had a specials/events at a differnt club every nite. So Mon is the big nite at Club A, Tues Club B. The clientele jsut moved around never realizing it was all programmed. they only had to fully staff and stock the all the bars on Fri and Sat. They also didnt have to compete for business so there were never drink specials or no cover etc at more than one location.
I read most of his post and a few in the thread.
Paul Rosenberg had a sensible post, so far.
Elise, I see – I briefly skimmed her post and it jumped out – is still waving the Chavez name, apparently now red cape to all good people-powered bulls. Fuck’s sake. Cindy’s support for Chavez is fine. There is enough he has done to make it fine, in the good column. I notice lately that simply the word “Chavez” has become boogey-manified over at Kos, esp amongst the Cindy disparagers.
Funny how they will automatically villify this man who is not really hurting anyone, certainly nowhere close to what Bush has done, yet it is okay to support Democrats who have solidly stood behind this horrendous twoheaded-monster admin, BushCheney, in their war, stomping on poor and middle class, anti abortion, torture, judicial nightmare noms, wiretapping, habeus corpus killing, extraordinary rendition, black prison usage, etc and so on… Its okay to support them and Democrats who stand with them, or Dems who stand with those who stand with them.
Yet Cindy stands with Chavez – who solidly stands against Bush and historical US imperialism/neoliberalism to control LA, as well as its insane warring and economic armtwisting in any region) and this is somehow supposed to make her name mud.
Go figure.
Forgot to clean this up, doesnt make sense as written. Meant to say:
“Its okay to support rightwing Democrats who have stood with them (Bush-Cheney) or support nicer Dems, who still have stood with those Dems who stood with BushCo.”
But not okay that Cindy stood in support of Chavez.
That’s mighty weak.
PRECISELY. It was that sort of business model that first clued me in to what Dkos/Alisters were doing. I got some of it watching Armando and MB sit on us at LSF, in the early days. I realised if a small blog was a bit edgey, it was a threat (I mean look at them OVER REACT to Cindy Sheehan, good lord!)
That site, LSF, had not been open 2 mos when people began to post unpleasant and nasty things about LSF in Dkos threads (second week of Dec 2004). Later there were indications, we could come inside where it ws warm, if we were smart.
LOL I so wanna be an “Amanda Marcotte”. LOL.
Boxing us in, boxing us up. Then someone I corresponded with said that a person she spoke to on the hill said the plan was, no matter where we go online, we end up getting the same message. From that I started calling sites like Martin’s “Box Car Sites”. Loaded us up and driving us around, like cattle …
Now obviously, lots of blogs out there, but look at Advertising Liberally, Kos has them boxed up. that group will never diverge much, if at all.
Steven D tried over Kos comments about Kathy SIerra. LOL NO ONE would say a word about Kos.
But some loved to bitch when they were dumped from the BlogRoll… and are STILL bitching about that. he has about 40 blogs by the neck.
And I still say, BMT was set up to net the butterflies and WIngless is to ”Agony Aunt” the atmosphere. And so they can point to a self declared unstable person as the “left opposition”.
Lotta useful idiots around.
Bowers says in his post that Cindy should have run in the Dem primary, not as an Independent, he could have sanctioned that, but then says Hoyer would be the speaker if Nancy lost, and then sarcastically says that would really help impeachment. So I guess Cindy can run in the Dem primary, but she is forbidden to win. Oh my.
Here, he confidently hums Cindy’s funeral dirge and speaks of her earlier “promise.”
I like the part about how “two years ago she showed real promise” it’s too bad how she fucked up. Can you imagine saying she showed promise? That is what the ineffectual Dems do – show promise (after promise), and dont follow thru. Cindy went beyond showing promise, for crying out loud. She promised and she accomplished!
It is for exactly that reason that she has little patience – at this point, because she was patient – for those who dont carry out their duties, not even promises. Their DUTIES!
Hope Bowers wears slip on shoes. Trusting him with laces would b a reach.
(I love slip ons)
He cant tie or he might hang himself… on his own words?
I didnt see what happened over at LSF. How did they lean on you guys? It is interesting, your scenario, because the BBBs are strikingly homogeneous, with a few slight off the ramp diversions once in a while. Its a scenario that, unfortunately, makes sense. The word you got from someone on the hill is creepily on the same page, too.
You really do see that boxed in aspect in the latest Cindy brouhaha over at DK. I saw a bunch of posts (like Elise’s) that just seemed so pathetic, they were yelling that the only way to be free one day, to get to the promised land, was to be in the cage. The one marked D. No matter what the Dems did, how they were failed, time and again, that was the ONLY way to do it right. That was sad. I could actually visualize the bars surrounding them. I could see the D elected officials confident that they were domesticated, unconcerned by any temporary cage rattling over disappointment xyz, because, after all, they had them in the cage. Willingly. Daily loyalty oaths are a daily outpouring, even amidst the occasional notes of dyspepsia.
Hell, maybe it was more like they were mounted on their walls, a la wild game bagger (killer) Ben Nelson. You know, the one who got front page hosanas from Armando for not being antiDem mouthy like Joe, while voting more rightwing than Joe.
Its what you say, see. Not what you do.
if his little seeming daydream about netroots provided blogger insurance comes to pass i bring to the floor and nominate:
open enrollment
It is too bad, really, because two years ago she showed real promise
Sounds like he’s talking about a former member of a cult who was lost due to deprogramming.
An Open Letter to CNN from Michael Moore
In short, the Democratic Party, when considered as an abstract concept, over the long term stands for nothing and no one.
Bowers is right about that, at least – and that’s the problem.
My suspicion (based on what she’s said recently) is that she’s been listening to people who do not have her best interests in mind- or the best interest of the soldiers stuck in Iraq for that matter.
Oh go fuck yourself Elise – and make sure you wear something FAB while you’re doing it.
Well, since Bowers is totally irrelevant himself, I doubt Cindy has to worry about anything he says regarding relevancy. The rightwing talking points re Ciindy adapted and repeated by the dk lower-level hirees to ‘catapult the propaganda’ are most promiently these two:
!) Larouche
2) Chavez
And watch who, in the threads at dk, uses them, over and over again thereby helping to identifie themselves as low level operativess. They make it so easy. Lol!
Seriously, I love that the most unpopular people on the internet are the ones attacking Cindy. It helps her immensely because even people who aren’t crazy about her, when it comes to dk operatives v Cindy, she wins every time. That’s the price of being unpopular!
The exact same talking points re CIndy, repeated over and over again by the idiot contingency on dk, started on Free Republic, Fox etc. The wingnuts had those talking long before the dk crowd.
Really, they should stop imitating the rightwing, as Chait correctly accused them of doing. The material is old, it had little effect on Cindy when the right tried it. Re-cycling old rightwing talking points makes them all look as ignorant as Rush’s ditto heads. I’ve really never seen such stupid idiots. At least those I encountered on rightwing sites were original. Dk’s wingnut lite version is just pathetic.
And as the ‘netroots’ attacks the mother of a dead soldier (which is how the rest of the world sees it) they continue to protect Bush et al from prosecution for their crimes. And the crimes are horrific.
************
From Dahr Jamail, someone who, rather than sitting behind his computer attacking grieving mothers, risked his life to try to get attention and help for those who are the victims of this country’s massive crimes against the Iraqi people: It’s a long article about the worst refugee crisis, maybe ever, totally ignored by the US press, and of course, by the ‘netroots’ who continue to blather about irrelevancies:
Dahr Jamail: Into the Iraq Diaspora
I saw Negroponte on CNN this week, lying about ‘progress’ in Iraq. But he was not asked about his deadly policy of death squads in Iraq, not that it was ever a secret. It was openly discussed in a major publication when he was appointed, but there was little or no outrage in this country at the time.
PS, this may have been posted before, if so, I apologize. It’s from April, so I imagine it is much worse now … and his prediction about 12% of the population being displaced by the end of this year sounds more than possible. Criminals all of them Dems and Repubs! Anyone who is not enraged enough to want to see them jailed asap, imo, is complicit at this point.
These death squads started coming after [former U.S. ambassador John] Negroponte arrived…
Plan Salvador. Plan Colombia. Plan Guatemala. PLan Honduras. Plan Ecuador. PLan Panama.
Lol, Catnip, the sheer inanity is overwhelming sometimes. As I said, when the most despised and hated people on the internet attack her, even her former enemies on the right begin to sympathize with her, as your link the other day demonstrated. They should keep up the good work, who knows if they work hard enough, she might win that election. If only they had some of the same vitriol for Republicans! They are suspect by their own words.
Btw, I wonder what Sy Hersch would have to say about the male/female wonders of the ‘netroots’! I can only imagine. But this is what he had to say about Dahr Jamail:
Go Dahr and those who are really making a difference. As for the netroots, Yawn! Btw, have they had anything to say about reaching through their computer screens and punching US voters in the face, today? Lol! Brave souls they are ….
John Dean:
He has some suggestions for what they House should do, but I have no faith that Pelosi and the rest of the party “leadership” **cough** will do anything other than back down.
Dahr did a piece that included a bit about Canadians in Iraq a while ago and he was kind enough to e-mail me back quickly when I had questions about it. We had a bit of a discussion back and forth. I must say that I was impressed that he took the time to do that. He’s one of the very rare few who’s actually telling the truth as it is there. If only there were more like him.
Marisacat #21 – check out this google link re The Salvador Option.
Death Squads: The Salvador Option in Iraq
The media did cover this fairly extensively. What was Congress doing? Did they even question Negroponte or will they? We always blame the media, but this time they did cover the story. I don’t remember any hearings after these reports to find out if this administration was committing war crimes in Iraq. Maybe there were. I’ll check. But regardless, the Iraqis themselves have made the connection. Now, there should be hearings. They are a disgrace, and people think they will end this war. Talk about delusional. They are fully on board from what I can see, Democrats and Republicans.
***********
Catnip, I agree, he is a true journalist, and it says a lot about him, considering what his schedule must be like, that he would respond to you. If anyone has earned the right to be an arrogant jerk, he has (not that anyone should be).
Compare that to kos and his befy of ‘administrators’ who have contributed nothing even close to what this man has done, yet do not respond to emails, pretentious fools that they are.
SB
IIRC congress voted 98 or 97 affirmative for Negroponte t be sent to Iraq.
Further, again from memory, Negroponte had no opposition when CLINTON sent him to the Phillipines as Ambassador, I think in the late 90s.
From Pakistan’s International News:
I like the way that’s worded. 😉
Compare that to kos and his befy of ‘administrators’ who have contributed nothing even close to what this man has done, yet do not respond to emails, pretentious fools that they are.
No kidding. That hadn’t even occurred to me. The again, they are so busy “reforming” the Democratic party and making sure everybody follows TEH RULEZ. You can’t really expect them to respond to the serfs.
From Mitm’s link:
Exactly what people have tried to tell the morons on dk. Bush and his cabal were made perfectly safe when Nancy Pelosi removed the only option to hold them accountable. This has been repeated and repeated. They have stacked the judiciary. But they cannot get around the Impeachment process.
If Congress has any will at all to stop this runaway administration, they will put Impeachment back on the table and sign Kucinich’s H.Res 333. Nancy needs to get after Congressional Dems, (does anyone think Tom Delay would not have had Articles of Impeachment signed by every Repub in Congress by now if the situation were reversed?) and get them to sign on to Impeachment. Forget the ‘we don’t have the votes’ argument. It would scare them to death, just the investigation where their crimes would be front page news every day as the proceedings are covered.
Once the public gets a glimpse of the extent of their crimes, what Republican up for re-election is going to want to be put in a position of supporting such crimes? If this were to happen, all their plans re stacking the courts would be thrown out the window, and I think we’d see a very different reaction from Bush et al. I think Republicans themselves would pay him a visit and tell him they are not going to commit political suicide on his behalf.
But they are safe, Bush has them pegged. He knows they have no will to stop him.
What’s interesting is how it’s always the Dems who we are to worry will be smeared, and by the criminals. It makes no sense and completely insults the American people. Or is it that there is no such concern, that it’s just a fear tactic, a talking point, for the Dems who are have no desire to stop them. I can’t wait to see what excuse they’ll have for being unable to use the power of Congress to overcome this blatant abuse of power.
My guess is that they will take the route of going to court and when they lose, they’ll simply whine again, saying that they tried, but those nasty Republicans did it again. And the dk operatives, maybe Occam’s ‘broken que tip’ (lol marisacat) will write a diary about what ‘brilliant strategy this was, and how it will show the people what renegades the Repubs are’ and this will get Dems elected in 2008! But even if that were true, it still doesn’t solve the problem that once again, Bush gets away with yet another crime.
If I could ask the Presidential candidates a question, it would be this: ‘If you are elected, since Democrats have failed so far to hold the Bush administration accountable for their crimes, do you promise not to do what Clinton did re the Bush Sr/Reagan administration, and conduct investigations and indict and convict all those who are guilty of crimes?’ So far, no one has asked them this question.
Bush has always known he was safe. I think he laughs at the Democrats… a lot.
hmm my local evening news is reporting that the Los Angeles archdiocese has settled priest abuse cases for a pay out of 660 million dollars. The largest settlement of this type.
I still think the real problem is they lay the case, the question becomes and why did congress just sit there and/or aprove it.
They may be trying to create some Miers incident so the “public” will just focus on the latest material and forget the last 6 years happened. They wont have to talk about the eavesdropping and abu gharib etc etc. Congress cant be found culpable in any of the justice dept contempt stuff. They are looking for something inmpeachable that wont bite them in the ass.
If the Plame stuff goes anywhere it gives re enforces the idea that poor dim witted congress was just mislead.
Hillary cant have trials and testimomy and evidence on TV syaing one thing when she is trying to sell her version of the past.
If the Plame stuff goes anywhere she can just say SEEEEEEE, i was mislead, not my fault.
IIRC congress voted 98 or 97 affirmative for Negroponte t be sent to Iraq.
Sigh – I didn’t remember how many confirmed him. And people still think we have two parties! Nor did I know about Clinton’s giving him an ambassadorship to the Philipines. Why would he do that? Don’t president normally reserve ambassadorships for members of their own party who helped get them elected? I wonder what Negroponte did for Clinton? It just gets worse and worse.
Robert Fisk has an interesting article up:
TE Lawrence had it right about Iraq
And Daniel Pipes is taken seriously here, while Dahr Jamail and Robert Fisk and Greg Palast are ignored.
I just don’t get what seems to be the current CW at dkos that the public will suddenly get all up in arms about the Harriet Miers situation. First of all, they’ll be asking who she is (short memories or they didn’t even bother paying attention when she was shut out of the Supremes) and secondly, I think they’d find it much easier to understand if Bush et al were impeached over admitting to illegal wiretapping at least – something the public did actually get.
IIRC congress voted 98 or 97 affirmative for Negroponte t be sent to Iraq.
I think I live-blogged that hearing. Hmmm…
Hillary cant have trials and testimomy and evidence on TV syaing one thing when she is trying to sell her version of the past — revisionist
I agree.. I don’t know in this era the reaction but everything shut down the summer of 73. Of course no 25/7 cable… so soaps were off the air — soaps actors will STILL talk about how they had a huge break, went on summer vacations… .
The hearings and analysis ran round the clock, as much as that existed then, on the net works.
Hillary cannot have that and neither can Reid nor Pelosi. Because eventually the nation would hear from Dingell for isntance who had luncheons with MEers invited to speak to the House, whomever would attend, trying to get congress to understand how destabilising this war would be to the region.
They’d hear from Ritter who tried several times to reach Kerry and left packets of information at his office, begging him not to vote for the war.
LOL And they’d hear from Gerth and Van Atta about her speeches where she said exactly what Bush said… and claimed special knowledge from “my time in the WH”.
And so on.
LOL The Democrats are terrified of the recent past.
I can’t remember the confirmation vote for Negroponte to the UN. But the administration unceremoniously dumped Danforth (went hom to the family?), and pushed Negroponte in.
or maybe I didn’t…I get the shady characters mixed up sometimes. I do know I live blogged Abu’s hearings.
Blast from the past via wiki:
That should have sent up a red flag right there – even without the death squads history.
Negroponte was in Mozambique this weekend handing over $500+ million in the Millennium Challenges project (ie. selling American foreign policy with payoffs). I read about that earlier today…for some reason…
more:
count but not the nomination. hmmm …
Three nominations in 6 years.
I’ll never forget his cagey mug as he sat behind Colin Powell at the UN while he was making the case for the Iraq war. Negroponte had that look of “I wonder if they’re buying this”.
The UK ponders indefinite detention for terrorism suspects.
Gitmo North.
LOL. He’s creative and persistent. You have to give him that.
Regarding the DK admins not responding to emails: remember the email that went out to everyone in Armando’s email address list, the Angry Wife “Haec Olim” website? Immediately after reading the material about the Armando/mcjoan affair, I wrote to mcjoan and asked, “Is this true?”
She never responded.
It’s not as if I were some stranger – she and I had “talked” a few times on DKos, always on cordial terms.
When people rail about how mean I was to mcjoan and how horrible I was to have alluded to her affair with Armando, they should be aware that I gave her ample opportunity to clarify the situation, clear her name, or else say “I’m sorry but it’s private.”
But to diss fellow community members who are asking in good faith for clarification of a sordid story, and then attempt to stifle any discussion of the issue is very dishonorable, in my book.
Follow-up to the last thread for NYCee and SB, and whomever:
Green Commons has had some good coverage and links to local activities in CA and elsewhere;Along w/prospects for the Presidential race. They seem to be plagues with frequent technical problems, unfortunately. I have registered there but never commented because they keep having problems. Still, it’s a good place to start. Indymedia usually has some coverage of Green candidates and local actions as well.
My laptop is dead again, which isn’t helping my spirits much. Will catch up with you all again later.
The Donks won’t do anything … they didn’t after Iran-Contra, they didn’t after BCCI, they didn’t after Riggs Bank, they …
… well, they won’t, because they don’t believe they could, or that they SHOULD. Fein has them nailed.
It’s 15 months to election, the Democrats won’t do anything, the sales job will be, You want Change, Vote for Change, Votw for Us.
I don’t think most of the base has caught on how extraneous they are to the Dems. And how crushingly un responsive / non responsive the party will be. even compared to previously.
having Nancy as SPeaker and Hillary, if she makes it (those unfavorables are really high), as president is going to be stunningly bad news. + Reid as majority leader, if they hold the senate.
ugh. Whole lotta lecturing will be happening.
Ms x, thanks for the link, I’ll check it out …. hope your laptop recovers! Know the feeling!
To paraphrase the dk talking point re why we must not talk of holding a criminal, Constitution-shredding administration responsible for destroying this country:
‘we have more important work to do, we need to focus on legislatation that benefits the American people’.
Usual response from what are generally labeled as ‘trolls’ by the mob on dk:
‘as long as he’s president, what good is it to pass legislation when we know he’ll veto anything that benefits the American people?’
One more example of what happens to all that important work we have to focus on:
Child Health Bill faces veto
How many bills is that now? And of course it was either stupid or deliberate to attach a tax on cigarettes to the bill. It virtually guaranteed a veto, or at least a good excuse for it.
But the Dems really seem to think this is good strategy. They really do believe that each time Bush vetos a bill, it will reflect on Republicans and get them elected in 2008. So they really are not serious about doing anything for the American people, such as ending the war etc. They are using the needs of the American to get themselves elected. That makes them worse than Republicans, who at least are up front about not caring about the American. This devious strategy is reprehensible but will lauded, as are all things reprehensible, by the so-called ‘progressive, BBB blogs.
And all this does is demonstrate their weakness, their refusal to put a stop to what they will claim is reprehensible, but are more than willing to subject the American people to for their own benefit. And they think that we, the people are blind to their deceptions.
Well, in 2005, UNICEF tried bombing a Smurf village to enhance a Belgian television campaign benefiting the rehabilitation of child soldiers in Burundi.
The short film pulls no punches. It opens with the Smurfs dancing, hand-in-hand, around a campfire and singing the Smurf song. Bluebirds flutter past and rabbits gambol around their familiar village of mushroom-shaped houses until, without warning, bombs begin to rain from the sky.
Tiny Smurfs scatter and run in vain from the whistling bombs, before being felled by blast waves and fiery explosions. The final scene shows a scorched and tattered Baby Smurf sobbing inconsolably, surrounded by prone Smurfs.
The final frame bears the message: “Don’t let war affect the lives of children.”
Link: http://tinyurl.com/dc32x
Philippe Henon, a spokesman for Unicef Belgium, said his agency had set out to shock, after concluding that traditional images of suffering in Third World war zones had lost their power to move television viewers. “It’s controversial,” he said. “We have never done something like this before but we’ve learned over the years that the reaction to the more normal type of campaign is very limited.”
Better blue than brown, in other words?
The family of the Smurfs’ creator, “Peyo,” approved the ad. Not sure if they’d be on board for costuming the ’08 Democratic candidate debates.
Btw, thanks for those links on Negroponte, Catnip. Absolutely disgusting and proof positive that the Dems are completely on board with the policies of torture and war and death squads and crimes against innocent populations.
That party cannot be reformed from within. You cannot get in unless you are willing to go along, and if not you will be driven out as was Cynthia McKinney who spoke out consistently about human rights violations and received little backing from her Democratic colleagues.
what a scream. Jim Webb and Lindsay (MTP). Going at it, from the same side. Reminds me of the debate where Casey and Santorum argued about who was more FOR cluster bombs.
Each calling the other, Mah freend.
The Reality of Race: Is the Problem That White People Don’t Know or Don’t Care?
I see this much the same way myself, and friends and family look at me as though I was swearing the fairies were real and werewolves walk the earth when I talk about it.
Racism informs the way, and the frequency, with which we go to war. It informs how we organize our education systems and economy. It poisons everything.
IB
I remember that commercial. It was a good one.
LOL anything beats 10 blue, black brown suits… 😉
PA in The Guardian:
Personally I wouldn’t mind if the Smurfs were bombed into oblivion. They’re insipid and annoying.
Moomins, on the other hand, are odd enough to be interesting:
Via Truthout:
If anyone esle caught MTP, Novak let drop who in the senate had labeled McGvoern “the candidate for Amnesty, Acid and Abortion” … all those years ago:
Eagleton was a hard core pro life Catholic. You cannot trust them. Novak mentioned that before Eagleton left the senate, he authored a bill to overturn Roe.
55 – Aha! I’ve seen the word “moominpapa” around and always wondered about the reference. Most intriguing. I see their creators turned down deals from Walt Disney. That’s walking the talk, isn’t it?
MCat – Maybe the candidates could be persuaded to wear custom-tailored “theme” hats, expressing their priorities, and print their platform details on boxes filled with Screaming Yellow Zonkers. The latter could be distributed to the press and public, for nourishment and close review.
IB, I remember that ad …. sad that people can’t just visualize the horror of war without having to bring it to them in a format that should only be required for children. But good for anyone who cares enought to try to stop the carnage.
Aw, SV, smurfs are okay … lol!
Re people having affairs, personally I think such things should never be in the public domain, as I felt with Clinton. But anyone who is foolish enough to have done what he did, should have understood that he was risking giving the rightwing ammunition to charge the entire party with hypocrisy regarding their position on workplace affairs and the potential for unfair treatment of employees not willing to use sex to further their careers.
But it happens and there will always be people who further their own ambitions that way. It’s certainly obvious on the bbb and no less hypocritical and adds just one more reason for their overall lack of credibility. So it’s not surprising that you would not receive an answer. A denial would have sufficed, but when there is silence, people reach their own conclusioins, and most have, not only in that one case, but with others. Democratic hypocrisy, screaming about equal rights for women, but do as they say, not as they do.
Otoh, it’s all such mundane, boring trivia which goes on in offices all over the country on too regular a basis to make it even slightly interesting when you consider what is going on in this world. Which is why I pretty much ignored the whole thing …people are dying, every minute of every day …. while the bloggers play in their sandboxes … and people like Dahr Jamail, Cindy Sheehan, Greg Palast, and so many un-named heroes try to make a difference. Those are the people I respect. The ‘bloggers’ are an occasional diversion, not much else.
Kind of inspired by MITM places race comment, I was remembering Lady Bird and the Highways….
There arent as many flowers as I remember as a small child in the early 70’s. It was really a sight. I remember driving and asking my parents Whats that flower and that one. Some of them, well, had pretty racists names. I still lapse to this day and sometimes refer to a Black-Eyed Susan as something else.
Intermittent: I see their creators turned down deals from Walt Disney. That’s walking the talk, isn’t it?
Finns tend to be stubborn and principled, and frown on superficiality.
The creators probably saw what Disney did to Winnie the Pooh and the Jungle Book and said “No thanks.”
I must say, all those Dem candidates on the stage for the debate reminds me of the climactic baseball game at the end of the first Naked Gun movie, where they show the announcers booth, and introduce one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, etc. famous announcers who’ll be calling the game. Such a number would result in unintelligible babble of course, and I’ll just assume this “debate” did too.
Something very bad is happening in Pakistan, where a 10-month old truce between the central government and guerrillas in some of the tribal areas that are only nominally under Islamabad’s control has broken down. Here is a link to an MSNBC story that attributes the renewed violence which killed a number of Pakistani security personnel to the Taliban and al-Qaeda (organizations that makes the SS and Ian Fleming’s SMERSH seem like neighborhood street gangs in NYC circa the late 1950s). In the NY Times we have a less incendiary (buried in the “World” index list way down on the FP) but probably more realistic story:
Ever wonder what the world looks like when you’re born with your head up your ass and you never manage to extract it? William Kristol knows, and isn’t shy about sharing:
About 50 years ago, the late, great Dwight Macdonald published an anthology of parodies (Parodies: An Anthology from Chaucer to Beerbohm–And After) that included a section devoted to self-parodies such as Little Nell’s Death from Dickens’ The Old Curiosity Shop and selected portions of a transcript of a press conference by President Eisenhower (Ike was a notoriously bad off-the-cuff speaker). History will doubtless deem this Kristol effusion worthy of inclusion in an updated edition in the unlikely event that Kristol is remembered by anyone other than his immediate family 5 minutes after his death.
The only thing anyone will say after Kristol finally kicks off is “Better he should not have lived at all.”
#56. The US military has obviously decided to use the same tactic that it uses in Afghanistan since they know they don’t have enough troops on the ground. Just drop bombs and hope you don’t kill too many innocent civilians. After all, the cost of that is just a trite apology and a few thousand dollars in compensation money. Buying off their mistakes – which has turned more and more people against them in Afghanistan.
#52. Thanks for posting that article about racism and privilege, MitM. Ironically though, since it seems the American public doesn’t have much of a problem with buying off Iraqi and Afghanistan families whose loved ones were killed in the wars with only ~$2,500, I doubt very much that those surveyed would really part with one million dollars in terms of reparations. But the point about how Black Americans are devalued as people is certainly valid. Just look at the aftermath of Katrina.
Aw, SV, smurfs are okay … lol!
I bought a smurfs’ album for my daughter when she was young. I’ve had a twitch in my left eye ever since. 😉
liberalcatnip, no. 64,
The US military has obviously decided to use the same tactic that it uses in Afghanistan since they know they don’t have enough troops on the ground. Just drop bombs and hope you don’t kill too many innocent civilians.
You’re absolutely wrong about this. They don’t care whether or not they kill civilians. In fact, piling up a body count is now probably one of the principal objectives. As those interviews with Bush/Oil War vets in The Nation makes clear, at this point we’re in The Only Good Iraqi Is A Dead Iraqi territory, if we weren’t all along.
JJB, I wrote about those suicide bombings in Pakistan last nite in conjunction with serious warnings by senior British generals that the Afghanistan war may be headed for a “catastrophic failure”.
Then there was the news earlier this month that NATO and US forces will be going after the Taliban in Pakistan which is obviously just a way to prop up Musharraf.
Bottom line: the war is expanding.
Amnesty, Abortion and Acid (and Smurfs) sound good to me
You’re absolutely wrong about this. They don’t care whether or not they kill civilians.
You’ll note I qualified my statement with the phrase “too many” ie. enough to raise eyebrows in the west.
I suppose I’ll merely expose myself to harmless ridicule if I make the following assertion: George W. Bush’s presidency will probably be a successful one.
Harmless, only because absolutely nothing can penetrate that armour-plated bubble of delusion that he so obviously lives in.
liberalcatnip, no. 67,
Very good post and links, although the last two don’t seem to work. This, from that July 3 Asia Times article, was extremely prescient:
I recall reading a piece in our own MSM (just which source I don’t remember) that the Red Mosque militants were an isolated fringe group with no sympathizers among the general public. I must remember to visit the Asia Times more often, whenever I have I’ve been very impressed with it, I simply forget about it.
Someday, these events may be known as The Mosque of the Red Death, a la Edgar Allan Poe. Who gets to be Prince Prospero?
Very good post and links, although the last two don’t seem to work.
Can you point out which ones? They all work for me in that post. Thanks. (Or did you mean the last link in my comment above?)
Two suspects inthe London/Glascow bombing have been release without charge… thats three now along with that one guys wife.
liberalcatnip, no. 72.
When I hold my cursor under “which is obviously just a way to prop up Musharraf” and “Bottom line: the war is expanding” I see the word “Done” in my status bar. The Asia Times article is linked in the first part of the sentence that precedes “which,” so maybe it’s just a case of the coding indicating a link where none is meant to be.
Paul supporters have uncovered a youtube Bot for Obama. It is increasing Obama’s views from 3 per minute to 300
Gold Star Mother rumble underway in Aisle 9: Cindy Sheehan’s Diary to DailyKos – TORTURE IS A WAR CRIME – Day 5 From The Road.
PP, et al, are blasting Sheehan for implying she was banned from the site, and not just told she couldn’t campaign at the Orange Order of the Blue.
#76 — yeah, need to distract people from talking about the Dems who allowed the Torture school to stay open.
some one should really do a diary on this at some of the BBBs… Polling says America is over the two party thing.
This is what happens when the so-called largest progressive blog on the tubes is busy posting pootie pics and loyalty oaths to the useless Democrats while being obsessed about “trolls” and ratings. Some of those commenters are absolutely clueless about what’s going on in Iraq.
liberalcatnip, no. 79,
I never even go over there anymore, what’s the point? It’s nothing but a half-assed, parodic version of the Salem Witch Trials.
BTW, the death toll in Pakistan now stands at 70 in two days worth of bombings.
Can they possible be any more assholish than this??
Holy christ on a stick. Fucking programmed cult members with absolutely no regard for the fact that she’s going to a memorial service.
That has to be one of the worst displays of inhumanity I’ve ever seen on that site.
I hope everyone has lotsa popcorn for this one! thereisnospoon presents
He says this like it’s a good thing!!
This should be fucking hilarious! Even if the mystery homegrown Kossack candidate should manage to get elected to congress, they will fucking eat him/her alive.
RE the revisionist link on the last thread to psychology today – I don’t think I’ve read such reductivist biologistic shit in years… Sexual harassment isn’t sexist because men are treating women as men? Good lord! That’s akin to Schlafley’s argument that the ERA shouldn’t be adopted because it would result in co-ed bathrooms.
Well, that pissed me off enough to come out of retirement and post a reply to Page there.
Now an MLWer has swooped in with an invite to post over there.
Just in time, too – the loathsome jiacinto smelled something burning and hustled over with his lawn chair and Koozie to join the fun. He suggests Sheehan take her “radical agenda” over to redstate or lucianne.com.
#83. I’m still stuck on the Scandinavian women have blonde hair because it’s cold there so they have to appear desirable to men somehow because they’re all bundled up in their clothes all of the time argument.
Anything left of Attila the Hun is “radical” to jiacinto.
very well written catnip. The right amount of indignation and scolding without resorting to the DK tactics of smears, name-calling, half-truth and word twisting.
#84 – Well done, linking to the list of Dems who voted against closure of the SOA.
As Revisionist implied at #77, the partisan enforcers would much prefer blog-shop talk to inquiry.
Thanks, rev. It was either that or my head was going to explode.
Been having some fun with the Sheehan thread myself.
“Fighting Dems 101st Chairborne Division” – good one, James. 🙂
Disgusting fucks… watch them turn around a cheer lead for Nelson and Casey
Why, thank you, catnip! 🙂
James and catnip, stop making Baby Nancy cry !!
Tsk.
James and catnip, stop making Baby Nancy cry !!
I’ll send her a (used) crocheted handkerchief. Not to worry.
I’m glad Sheehan decided to leave dkos. Good for her. She doesn’t need that shit in her life.
It is curious that they are trying to shepherd her to MLW… which is still tied to the Orange Creep.
yeah, but apparently James, someone here thinks you’re an MLWer!!
LOL!
This phrase makes me whoop with laughter:
an entire Kossack brain trust
Btw, if y’all want some more fun, check my Ward Churchill open letter over at Dissident Voice. Got a couple right-wing nutcases to come right out of the woodwork.
re#98
yeah, SV, that one had me rolling on the floor as well — so, they can fill a thimble with it??
BTW, catnip, I found a replacement link to durante’s piece via Green Commons. Posted it yonder at MBM, since the BMT link doesn’t show anything. Maybe somebody there decided durante was Not Ready For Prime Time.
Oh, well. The people who most need to read such things are too busy rallying ’round the Orange Flag to bother. Bunch of pigeons, ripe for another pocket-picking and ceremonial Boot to the Head[tm]. I’d feel sorry for them if they weren’t so fucking cruel and stupid.
LOL In case anyone needs amusement. Big Tentola on the Moyers JOurnal / Fein / Nichols / Impeachment. It’s a special one.
Here is what Tentola says about the passage (ecerpted above) Nichols on Nancy (“she is wrong”)
I’ve been called worse! 🙂
I should be called a NIONer too (although I don’t post there nearly as much as I’d prefer).
#97 – See here:
Posted it yonder at MBM, since the BMT link doesn’t show anything.
Oops. Thanks for adding that.
lol @ bigtentmeister…sticking up for poor Nancy who apparently wouldn’t know her oath of office if it smacked her upside the head.
Yeah… that is what I was referring to too
I should be called a NIONer too (although I don’t post there nearly as much as I’d prefer).
I have FPer status over there – at least I was given it when they started the place – but I haven’t been there for eons.
My guess is you could still fp over at NION.
More news from Pakistan:
He doesn’t have to elaborate. Musharraf gave US and NATO forces permission already to launch attacks there.
In other words, they’ve forked over billions of dollars to prop up Musharraf and now he owes them big time. Screw “sovereignty”.
Geez, is there any show Hadley wasn’t on this morning?
Maybe I should have just diaried this and posted a link.
Anyway:
The Bush administration: happily expanding the “war on terrorism” every week on a new front they’re too strapped to handle.
My guess is you could still fp over at NION.
I’ll go back some day and give it a shot after I check out what they’ve been up to over there.
Senate votes to authorize missile shield 90-5
Russia suspends arms control pact
Spamalot
Spamalot
The song or the mailbox? 😉
I am Lost in Spam
Berube is at Pandagon, baiting Leftie stragglers while at the same time forbidding them to post to his precious thread– which proclaims that Clinton could have won even without Perot.
Coming soon: Berube agrees the commentary made by the pollster in An Unreasonable Man. You know, the proclamation that Bush could have won even without whatsisname in the race. Because obviously, it couldn’t just be Leftie spoilers that spoil races. Or it couldn’t just be Rightie spoilers that fail to spoil races.
Yeah, right. [rolleyes]
I wonder if anyone over there had a thing to say about Sheehan’s poison pen letter to the DP. Not that I looked very hard, since I’m already depressed.
Op ed in the Pak Times: Troubled Pak-US Alliance
What it all boils done to is this:
***
I am Lost in Spam
Darn. I wanted to sing.
brinn, no. 82,
I am reminded, for what I think are obvious reasons, that last night when I went to see a play featuring a couple of friends at Georgetown University, I saw along the route to the campus a handful of people holding signs saying “Scientology Event.” Apparently, L. Ron Hubbard’s disciples were holding some kind of meeting or seminar there. They really should have had more people out, there were only about 5 posted along the 2 miles from the Francis Scott Key Bridge to the campus entrance by the hospital on Reservoir Road. There were also lots of well dressed people going to a Bastille Day celebration at the French Embassy, making the cultists even harder to spot. No trouble picking out the cultists over at LittleOrangeSnotballsR’Us. I admire your willingness to report on their idiotic schemes, but remember what Nietzche said; stare not too long into the abyss lest the abyss stare into you. 🙂
liberalcatnip, no. 81,
Yes, truly despicable. And so laughable. If these people had any clue as to just how irrelevant they are, they’d jump into the sea like the good little lemmings they are. I’ll repeat Nietzsche’s advice for you as well, at this point I think one risks losing IQ points by visiting that site. 🙂
lol:
Cindy Sheehan is on my teevee – being interviewed by Rick Sanchez on CNN. More of that interview coming up at 7:30 pm ET.
Stick that in your “activist” pipes and smoke it, kossacks.
Well she should have goddam posted the diary after her peace rally and the memorial service and the CNN interview
Good for Cindy for quitting finally quitting daily kos. What a disgraceful display of petty nonsense. They obviously do not want to talk about torture and the complicity of the Democratic Party –
Nice going though, they rail against being accused of banning her and then go ahead and drive her off the blog.
And they whine about people saying nasty things about them when they behave like that.
As for Big Tent, did he not realize what the topic of the show was? But I agree with him that she is also violating her oath by not using the power she has to stop funding the war. One violation does not erase another. The woman is a disaster. And in case anyone forgot, she was also involved in secret trade discussions with Bush. When ARE they going to wake up?
Btw, Catnip, Barb seems to think you’ve (or we) are telling lies about Daily Kos. Maybe she could be more specific. All I’ve seen here is a recording of their own words and actions, usually accompanied by links to the site. At least we’re giving them much-needed page hits.
I’m sure someone from the reality based community will provide a list of the ‘lies’ ….
Stop Trying To ‘Save’ Africa – By Uzodinma Iweala
At least we’re giving them much-needed page hits.
No kidding. I’d pay no mind at all to the oceans of bad nor the smidgens of good (ie– Moiv) at DK were it not for this space. Even what’s good over there is readily found elsewhere, with less bullshit to wade through along the way. You just have to know where to look.
jjb
the nietzsche insight I always think of when I look at that place is the tendency of people to fall into a “herd morality”.
JJB – stare not too long into the abyss lest the abyss stare into you.
As I remarked to someone the other day: I avoid going to DKos nowadays because it has a very bad smell – like rotten meat. I don’t usually get psychic impressions via my sense of smell, so this is interesting.
Bastille Day celebrations can be fun. My husband got his PhD with a delightful young French guy named Benoit. He was short dark and handsome and would smuggle homemade foie gras and saucissons through customs when coming back from visits home. Once he invited us to a Bastille Day celebration at the home of a couple of his French friends. They served a fantastic meal. The dessert was a charlotte russe topped with a guillotine made of chocolate. Yum! The French know how to party.
Hey, sv, I am cooking up some of them there lentils of yours and the house smells terrific. My black mood is rapidly evaporating.
The yuppie mart was selling roasted (albiet not smoked) duck breast in the deli and I took it as a sign. Bought one to slice up later on, and some baby lettuce to go on the side. Just pretend not to notice that I’m serving it with the Portugese “green” wine instead of a nice Red. Shhhh…
And no doubt someday she will be asked about being driven off the so-called progressive blog, daily kos. So stupid of them to alienate someone who is highly thought of by most of the country and around the world, and who has access to the media both national and international. When that blog implodes they will have no one but themselves to blame.
I was thinking about an incident that happened when Cindy was in the ditch near Bush’s ranch in 2005. A bunch of Freepers from Freerepublic showed up. One of them had a sign that said ‘The Witch in the Ditch’! Not unexpected at the time considering the source. But one of the ‘head freepers, who obviously has more decency than the crowd over at dk, went over and asked the sign-holder to take it down. A scuffle followed as the ‘good freeper’ tried to take it away when the other guy refused. It was eventually removed although the ‘good freeper’ was slightly injured.
That kind of mocking and shaming was not acceptable to most of the freepers there. Not because they liked her or what she was doing, Bush was their hero after all, but they had enough decency to recognize that to treat the mother of a soldier killed in the war so poorly was simply not acceptable and would not win them any points with anyone.
Maybe ‘kossacks’ could take a few lessons from those freepers …. they sure need to get them from somewhere.
ms x: Bought one to slice up later on, and some baby lettuce to go on the side. Just pretend not to notice that I’m serving it with the Portugese “green” wine instead of a nice Red. Shhhh…
Oh yeah! Sounds like a party!
Benoit used to belabor me with French outrage because I preferred to drink red wine with his foie gras instead of Sauternes. But hey, it tasted better to me.
What does Portuguese “green” wine taste like?
i doubt that sign said witch.
One thing the Freepers do have on the kossacks is activism. Even if they are thugs they do show up at places/events. Hell, they even had a verb named for them. At best, Kos will become adjective with a negative connatation.
’m sure someone from the reality based community will provide a list of the ‘lies’ ….
I just basically told her to put up or shut up.
Just demand to know when Daily Kos, editiorially, will come out for impeachment. If you have her attention I would like to know that.
It’s very light and a bit fizzy, sv. But not super-sweet or as bubbly as champagne. Sort of halfway between an autumnal hard cider and a summery White. The fruity taste is a little reminscent of some German Whites I’ve had. Or a lighter Pinot Gris. (Some good Pinot Gris is to be had from OR,at least in my amateur estimation.)
Well I did mention Sheehan’s CNN appearance. They can’t come out for impeachment. kos said it’s “porn”.
New Thread
LINK
i disagree with some of that post catnip. They are obsessed with the rules to stifle opposing thought, dissent and maybe getting the mob to move in a certain direction on issues. Its not about the rules but the way they use them and for what purpose. As her about tomorrow’s headlines across the blogoshere:
SHEEHAN: DELETE MY FUC*ING ACCOUNT KOS
SHEEHAN: DELETE MY FUC*ING ACCOUNT KOS
lol
I’ll give you the bit about the rules. I’m just sick and tired of their thuggery no matter what grand purpose they think it’s supposed to achieve.