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The Guiding Light of Wall Street… 23 July 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, California / Pacific Coast, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter.


I hardly touch on financial matters (anything more than the date on a page gives me a huge headache).  A big big dip on the stock exchange, some oddity I notice…  However, I saw this at Danny Schechter’s News Dissector – a good fluid piece on the sub prime implosion, found it eminently readable and followed the link

First, a long snag from Schechter

[T]hen, as predicted but at first downplayed, the bubble began to burst. Suddenly, it was not just poor people to be blamed for being financially irresponsible—even as two million families face foreclosures of their homes— but the whole financial industry itself.

Wall Street is far more culpable than main street.

Last week, Credit Suisse, predicted a big stock market fall in 6 months because securities are overvalued. The Fed warned of l00 Billion in credit losses. The Guardian reported, “Some analysts said they feared a broader credit crunch if a collapse in confidence in the US mortgage market rippled out to other parts of the debt markets.” A NY Post article suggested that over two TRILLION dollars is at risk. Of course, all of this is speculative but as they say, when there is smoke in high places, fire can’t be far behind.

Last Saturday, the New York Times reported, “Anxiety over securities backed by risky mortgage and rising interest rates has roiled the credit market for several moths. Now the CONTAGION (caps mine) from those troubles seems to be spreading into other parts of the marketplace.”

Terms like “roiled” and “contagion” are insider words for a spreading panic Writing on Money And Markets.com, Mike Larson declares “ITS ALL HITTING THE FAN.

He says two Bear Sterns funds simply “VAPORIZED” explaining,

“In plain English, here’s what happened:

These funds invested in complicated mortgage securities

They used extensive leverage, or borrowed money, to improve returns … Then, delinquencies and foreclosures started surging, and the value of the underlying loans and bonds tied to them began sinking fast.”

Now private equity firms which have been making monster deals built on debt are being squeezed. Much of the debt is being seen as junk. We have also learned that the agencies rating credit and debt offerings had their heads in their rear ends. They have lost credibility putting the market at more risk.

The excellent website Mi-explode.com reports that since late 2006 l00 major US Lenders have collapsed or “imploded.” The editor sums up the reasons this way: “Thank you greed; thank you delusion; thank you anti-regulation—we couldn’t have done it without you!”

The press is beginning to wake up and realize how important this is. They have been talking about the rise of the stock market as if that tells the whole story. Yes, some corporate profits are up but what’s happening down below is alarming. Note, the market fell nearly 150 points after last weeks high of 14000.

Business Week saya that the subprime crisis is spreading to other kinds of debt, and far more serious than thought writing it is “Only a surprise to those who listened exclusively to soundbite-based talking-heads belaboring “subprime” as an isolated implosion. Around here, long ago we were forwarding along data and analysis showing sharp rises in delinquencies in virtually all classes of consumer debt.”

More Contagion.

We are finally beginning to talk about real money and a real danger of the kind that terrifies bankers and the elite. They may not care about the poor, but they do about themselves!

As Mike Larson suggests: “Ultimately, losses on subprime mortgage bonds alone may total as much as $90 billion, according to one estimate. Losses on collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), investment vehicles created from slices of various mortgage-backed securities and asset-backed securities, may total billions more.”  [snip]

A few snips from the Larson article

Meanwhile, News from the Housing
Industry Keeps Getting Worse and Worse

Pulte Homes (PHM) became the latest builder to warn of big problems in its business. The third-largest home builder said orders plunged 20% from a year ago. And it’s going to take as much as $770 million in pre-tax charges to write down the value of land and other assets on its books.

Meanwhile, the National Association of Home Builders released its latest monthly index data, which dropped four points in July to 24.

That was far worse than the 27 reading expected by economists … the third-lowest level on record … and the worst since January 1991. All three sub-indices — which measure present home sales, expectations for future sales, and current buyer traffic — fell, too.

Here is a good place to say a small thing I do know.  I don’t usually include charts / graphs from articles but see that big dip in ’91… I am sure we all remember that.  Out here, in the Bay Area and in the highly desirable counties north of the City, we barely felt that nice big rise in 93/94… what happens out here in a recession and a big hit on RE, etc.  our RE, from developers moving on options, to housing starts, to selling – from cheapish condos to multi-million dollar property prior to foreclosure, it all screws down hard, freezes in place (owners needing to sell start weeping) and does not move for years.  We did not exit from the recession in the early 90s, in terms of RE, until the late nineties.  Not really.  The dirty secret is we needed that nasty bubble the Venture Capitalists (VC) churned out of the dot com (or as I call it, dot com dot died) era.  That did not end too well, for some people at least…

Just my view.

A snip for two more from Larson

Here’s My Point: The Worst Is
Not Over, So Protect Yourself!

I’ve been closely following the mortgage and housing markets for years. Since things started topping out in mid-2005, and the long slump got underway, I have heard two things almost every step of the way.

The first is that the worst is over and the bottom is in.

All along, I have maintained there is no evidence of that. And this week, even the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Ben Bernanke, was forced to admit as much before Congress. He said,

“Although a leveling-off of home sales in the second half of 2006 suggested some tentative stabilization of housing demand, sales have softened further this year, leading the number of unsold new homes in builders’ inventories to rise further relative to the pace of new home sales. Accordingly, construction of new homes has sunk further, with starts of new single-family houses thus far this year running 10 percent below the pace in the second half of last year.”

I was so entertained in a sort of fin de siecle way… The law firm I was at in the late 80s (’87 to ’00) was uniquely positioned to catch the drift shall we say.  They had a special relationship with Bechtel and were involved in global building projects, aside from everything else….  And they did catch the drift, in ’89.  But did nothing.  Like a lot of big firms they waited for a well known event to blame it all on (“we were holding our own in a tough market until…”)   Some firms out here used 9/11 to make moves in a softening economy… My firm held off, held off.  ‘Til ’91, when they began large lay-offs.



1. outofwater - 23 July 2007

Kos dictum announcing that he is about to cleanse the site again. Apparently, too many thoughtful people are posting, it’s out of control. Interesting that he’d quote Bush in the title.

This Freerepublic model will never work on progressives, but it is entertaining to watch him try.

2. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

OOW — Romney’s sign, JetBlue and civility are far more important topics than imepachment activists holding a sit in in conyers office.

I dont know how you can claim to be a political blog and not really cover or address that.

3. marisacat - 23 July 2007

For me… (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:vcmvo2, andgarden

this isn’t even so much about donuts- there are lots of comments that deserve them…if someone violates the rules- there should be consequences, ya know? The FAQ is clear on what to TR and what to not TR…

for me- this is about so much more than that…

I touched the Universe — And back it slid — and I alone — A Speck upon a Ball — Went out upon Circumference — Beyond the Dip of Bell —

by Elise on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 10:47:50 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

LOL and the Rulz Commissarz come out to play.

Someone should hang doughnuts off her nipples – as long as her personal appendages are such a topic on what once was a political discussion site… (this is not a family blog, 😉 )

4. JJB - 23 July 2007

I note that El Caudillo Anaranjado yet again invokes that “libertarian” label for himself. Now, in my experience the people who use this term to describe themselves are those who want to have all the advantages of living in a highly developed, centralized, and powerful nation while avoiding any of the responsibilities, most specifically, having to pay taxes. So it’s pretty much a meaningless term anyway, even more so than “I’m a social liberal and an economic conservative,” a line usually spouted by people who think largely the same way as the “libertarians.” All the same, the notion that someone as determined to make everyone at that site knuckle under to his viewpoint about anything is a “libertarian” is just too absurd for words. At any rate, if he wants to start banning the people most responsible for the ugly atmosphere, he can start with the people he has given administrator privileges to. But then having tolerated Armando’s antics for so long, it’s obvious he cares less about what actually goes on in the comment threads than he is about seeing that a very limited and officially approved set of talking points is discussed and agreed too by the purged and purified mass of Kossacks.

5. outofwater - 23 July 2007

It’s amazing how many people actually believe Kos just made an appeal for civility on the site.Do they really think that courtesy will be required? Won’t they be disappointed.

Someone who doesn’t care if they’re banned should let them know this was simply an announcement that the most vocal pro-impeachment users will now be removed without further notice. It’s like their little children transfixed by a fairy tale.

I wonder if OPOL can post anymore, poor guy, he was planning to go to Yearly. He was warned.

6. Sabrina Ballerina - 23 July 2007

Well, Cindy insulted the Dem Party and they’re crying into their widdle kleenex over it ….

Oow, did I not predict they are planning a purge a few threads back? Rotfl! Too predictable to even be interesting anymore. They have to protect the ‘Party’ – not the Country, that is secondary always on dk.

They send out their agitators, DHinMi et al (who no matter what Miss L says will remaind suspected of being a paid shill by SOMEONE!) Of course she didn’t deny it, she asked for ‘proof’ and probably thought we ignorant hussies and bastards missed that she didn’t deny it!

I hope he is planning on getting rid of the main instigators, DHinMi and I don’t mean pretending and letting him use one of his sock-puppet accounts. That was meant to be funny, in case anyone thought I actually thought Kos was legitimately going to get rid of instigators and not just ‘Progressives’! Btw, has he addressed the Non-Democrat who posts on his fp yet?

He’s sooooo tough behind that little laptop screen …. ‘I will act mercilessly’!! What a charicature he is!! Really, he thinks he is in some third world dictatorship where the 1st Amendemnt doesn’t apply – oops! Rotfl!

Really I hope that the top diarists over there will quit and take half the place with them. If you live in a dictatorship where you never get a fair hearing, why keep trying? Rusty will be the first ot be banned and if people do not stand up en masse and threaten to leave, they will move on to probably Buhdy who they hate with a passion because so often he has made DHinMi look a total freak and moron. Not hard to do but most people don’t waste time on him. And next Opol if they think they can get away with it.

Impeachment is to be taken over by Meteor Blades and controlled. Armando didn’t get the memo, imo, when he went after MB for the first impeachment diary on the FP. He didn’t know the plan, or he was meant to draw attention to it. They cannot be trusted at all, not a word they say. ….. So, they are working hard to demean those who have led the impeachment cause on dk, and then take it over control it and make sure it doesn’t happen. Good luck to them …

I really hope a new, big progressive site develops from all this … there are rumblings – that’s all I can say, as the writing is on the wall over at the big orange re-education center. It really is time all progressives dumped the place and leave it to the righties.


Boohoohooman, re your post in the last thread, I agree with you that Independents (some anyway) might lose, and that that might give Republicans a win. But more and more I’m thinking that’s what it may take before we get real change. If all that has happened already, cannot even rouse so-called progressives to demand Impeachment, we need more to happen. And I will not be persuaded to try to avoid that by voting Dem this time. That tactic sure didn’t work did it? Let it get as bad as it takes to wake them up! I just resent that all of us will have to suffer too …

7. outofwater - 23 July 2007

I bet you a dollar OPOL is already gone, that diary seemed directly aimed at him. I’ve already sent my condolences, I hope they weren’t premature.

Kos is at least as cynical as any Bushie out there, they must coach him. It’s the most articulate and civil members he is targeting, but he claims this purge is courtesy related. It’s mindboggling that the users there don’t notice the parallel.

8. D. Throat - 23 July 2007

There has lately been an alarming rise in diaries and comments that seek to impugn (without evidence) the motives of those they disagree with on various issues.

anyone who claims this event is anything but a celebration of the best the Democratic Party has to offer is simply, to put it mildly, blinded by partisan rage and completely out-of-touch with reality.

This points to a serious breakdown not just on civility, but in the ability of people to properly debate various issues. As such, it presents a serious threat to the integrity of this site.

JetBlue’s new pre-flight video
by kos
Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 08:52:11 AM PDT


As a site, we strive to provide a safe haven for debate on these matters without it getting — as has happened of late — so damn ugly.

Okay, so JetBlue, after deciding to resist Bill O’Reilly’s pressure last night, just decided to back down. Let them know what you think about that.


9. cad - 23 July 2007

what’s all this about kos being a libertarian?

didn’t he read the FAQ?


10. Sabrina Ballerina - 23 July 2007

Oow, if it was courtesy related, DHinMi and MissLaura, Paintykat, musings, elise et al would have been gone long ago. Eg, DHinMi called Opol a McCarthyite yesterday and was rec’d by the same people who weep over anyone comparing them to rightwingers. In fact on any other site, they are the classic definition of trolls!

It is not a progressive site. People have to understand that and then they will stop being frustrated by it. I watch it now the way I used to watch Freerepublic. To learn and observe their tactics that is all.

As far as Opol being gone, I doubt it. Not yet. But it’s clear why the trolls were so busy in Impeachment diaries over the past week or so. This is all planned and orchestrated. Feingold coming to try to calm the waters etc. Fake liberal, MB ‘taking over’ impeachment on the fp, armando all upset or pretending to be, making MB look like a martyr for the cause etc. Or whatever games they play. And the attacks on Cindy Sheehan … so focused on impeachment, part of the Constitution so they can’t ban it as a subject bu their livlihood must depend on protecting their bosses from the screams of the mob. Too bad! We’ll be screaming even louder now that we know it works! Lol!

Iow, keep calling Nancy, Conyers et al. They really DON’T want you to …

But this is clear, for some reason, talk of Impeachment, real genuine talk, causes them to go insane. Opol et al are stepping on some kind of minefield, and the dishonest creeps who run that site, will not tell the truth, so Kos and his thugs just make shit up! Civility, lol!

DHinMi and the usual gang earned their keep – or think they did. But his little announcement was more than predictable … we were actually waiting for it! They are not very clever … just willing to sell their souls, as the Jetblue incident proved beyond a doubt.

Btw, we have to remember what Kos said about Jetblue ‘I am a fan’ and when ‘progressives’ tried to tell him he should not be a fan of a company that was anti-labor, it fell on deaf ears. Now ‘they suck’ but for all the wrong reasons.

Those are kos’ principles …

Speaking of principles. The Dems do it again!! Instead of going straight for Inherent Contempt, they are wasting time and going for Statuary Contempt.

Bush imo, actually made a rare mistake last week, by announcing he would order the DOJ not to take on the subpoena cases. I wondered why he didn’t just let it play out and waste the time of Congress. I think they realized it later and tried to retract a little. However, Congress to the rescue! As usual!

There is no explanation for the things they do. Going for Inherent Contempt was a way to back them into a corner at least, although I don’t think it’s as effective as going for Impeachment. They can still involve the courts with IC as far as I know.

Despite the administration’s statements that a U.S. attorney would not be permitted to enforce a contempt citation from Congress, the House Judiciary Committee will vote Wednesday on whether to cite Harriet Miers and Joshua Bolten with statutory contempt, according to a senior committee aide.

“This is a step we have to take to continue the process,” the aide told me. “We’re obviously aware of The Washington Post’s story, and we’re reviewing all of the options that are available to us.”

Way to go. Even when Bush hands them an opportunity to go after him hard, they back away, and give him an out. Harriet Meirs and Rove are smiling.

11. Sabrina Ballerina - 23 July 2007

Oops, that quote in my #10 is from Kagro’s diary on DK …. http://www.dailykos.com/

And Bob Fertik has a diary up about Cindy at Conyers’ office on the Rec. list.

12. marisacat - 23 July 2007

LOL they all look like frigging nutters to me. And not much else. It won;t stop anything but they are close to being cannibals by now… eating at core flesh.

But they are in a gutter business, politics. It is a good place for dysfuntionals to hide.

I don’t know who else watched a lot of state level debates, runs for the House etc. Often there was a Libertarian. Now, everybody knows they come in all stripes. I saw a lot I thought were put in place, in the debates at least, fake runs, little side ops, by the Republicans. Strains of Liberatarian (small and large “L”, both) can make some R look mild.

Esp if that is the game.

Seems that is Kos’ game, has been all along. They sure don’t support a progressive/liberal/left ticket. Never have. LOL colonisers…

I remember when Granny D still commented, very early on would do the occasional diary. She shepherded Gravel’s first forays in the lower 48, took him around to Dem party groups etc., in NH, almost a year ago now.

Granny D would be banned today (hell, wilfred and I were banned almost 2 years ago, Madman in October following us). She stepped away early.

13. bayprairie - 23 July 2007

“With us or against us”

judging by this, i assume harry reid and ilkhave stressed the importance of putting a lid on impeachment speech or no more party favors.

nothing like a little democratic party censorship of the left, right barb?


The First Amendment does not apply here.

by BarbinMD on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 01:48:58 PM PDT

14. Sabrina Ballerina - 23 July 2007

Oh so funny Oow – ‘and alarming ….. blah blah. Meant to sound so ‘ominous’!

I agree with this and hope he will be banning those responsible:

There has lately been an alarming rise in diaries and comments that seek to impugn (without evidence) the motives of those they disagree with on various issues.

Like calling other people ‘McCarthyites’ without a shred of evidence, eg. And implying as MB did, that diarists are ‘agent provocateurs’ without an iota of proof either, or calling people you disagree with ‘sexist’. He’s right, it’s been out of control and there is lots of reason for Kos to be upset over what’s been happening. Now let him act on it and get rid of those responsible! Really, is anyone fooled anymore?

I’m betting that the trolls will remain, and more good progressive voters will be falsely accused of doing what the trolls, DHinMi et al are actually responsible for and will either leave or be banned. I would force them into banning and join the elite of the Internet, the very best writers and thinkers who are proud to have been banned from DK.

It reminds of the Soviet Union …. and how proud those people who were sent off to ‘re-education’ camps etc. and are now seen as heroes. On a lesser scale, by far of course, being banned from DK has the same implications now …

15. JJB - 23 July 2007

Since our major, established news outlets won’t mention the possibility of Turkey invading Iraq’s Kurdish areas, we have to rely on the foreign media. Here’s a few stories from The Guardian dealing with that, as well as analysis of the Turkish political situation:

Kurdish rebels ready for battle

The commander of Iraq-based Kurdish rebels has predicted Turkey will swiftly follow its parliamentary elections with a long-anticipated offensive against his bases in northern Iraq.
Murat Karayilan, the leader of the separatist Kurdistan Workers’ party, or PKK, denied Ankara’s accusations that the party was using its bases in Iraq to launch attacks against Turkish forces, but warned that his fighters were prepared for battle.

“The date of the Turkish offensive has drawn near,” Mr Karayilan said in an interview at his base in the remote village of Lewzhe in northern Iraq.

Which way now for Turkey?

What makes the result so complex is that the ruling AKP got far more votes – up 13 percentage points from 2002 – but fewer seats than it had before. The party will be able to form a government by itself, but will lack the two-thirds majority needed to bring about some of the big changes that it seeks. Still, the AKP can be satisfied that after five years in office its popular support has climbed, while the opposition has been shown to be incapable of challenging it seriously.

The AKP’s resounding victory means that the Turkish republic originally shaped as a secular state by Kemal Ataturk in the 1920s is dead. However, this does not necessarily mean that Turkey will become an Islamic, must less an Islamist, country.


The election’s other success story was the MHP, which has often been seen as a neo-fascist party since its creation immediately after the second world war, but which has been reinventing itself along conservative nationalist lines. The fact that two-thirds of the voters supported parties that were long considered extremist and whose allegiance to democracy is questionable has shocked many Turks, including those who comprised most of the ruling elite in modern times.

Gamble pays off as Turkey’s PM wins historic landslide

It remains to be seen if the mandate will quickly dissolve the air of crisis that has enveloped Turkey in recent months.

The possible threat of a coup, deadlock between government and opposition over a new head of state, pressure for a military invasion of northern Iraq to crack down on Turkish Kurdish guerrillas sheltering there, poor relations with the US over Iraq, and near-paralysis in Turkey’s efforts to negotiate membership of the EU – all these are issues piling up in the in-tray.

The multiple challenges have produced an outpouring of extreme nationalism, resulting in the parliamentary presence of the MHP, widely viewed as neo-fascist, with a paramilitary wing. Its leader campaigned with a hangman’s noose, his preferred solution to the Kurdish insurgency in the south-east.

16. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

Is anyone familiar with andgarden. That poster doesnt ring any bells but the past couple of weeks appears to be everywhere

17. outofwater - 23 July 2007

The problem with effort to stop the impeachment talk is that it’s so far out of control. They’ll certainly ban the leaders, but this isn’t a fringe idea, it’s huge and it’s real. So when they zap the best of them (I notice OPOL has posted today, so my condolences were premature) they’ll just find more of the same. Then what? The only move left will be a moderated forum, I’m sure elise et al would love the authority to hide comments on a whim, that would make her life worth living. The problem with that solution is that participation will fall, if they truly get what they wish for, no one will bother with them. The metamorphosis into a fully mainstream white bread media site will be complete. They’re really in a pickle. Too bad.

You’re right that they do seem to be in more of a state about it than normal, but I’m not sure what’s driving the crackdown. Your theories are always spot on, so I’d be interested in what you think.

Too bad about inherent contempt, there was never any doubt.

18. JJB - 23 July 2007


Re andgarden, I have no memory of every seeing that handle in the 3 years that I was a regular poster on that site (2002 through 2005). I noticed a day or two ago that whoever it is has a rather low user ID no. (50,344), which leads me to suspect it’s an alternate ID established a long time ago for someone who’s posted there under many guises.

19. outofwater - 23 July 2007

Looks like the crackdown has begun:

* [new] John Conyers is a Fraud! (0+ / 2-)

Trollrated by:Firefly, Joelarama

What a disgrace!

He tells one radio show that he’ll take action if he gets 3 more people and then comes out today with leave these guys to break whatever laws that they want, anytime that they want for another 1.5 years and that the Nation’s only recourse is Elections??? — which were, of course, stolen in both of the last two cycles!

Why is John Conyers helping to create a bulletproof Dictatorship??

This is disgraceful!

by SeriesOfTubes on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:54:05 PM PDT

This poster is a fraud. (0 / 0)

I see nobody is ever perfect enough for him.

Conservatism is Dead!

by Eternal Hope on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:10:20 PM PDT

[ Parent | Reply to This |Recommend Troll ]

20. marisacat - 23 July 2007

I don’t know anything about andgarden.

I don’t recall ever noticing the name, til I saw it in the court of Tent-o-la over at TalkLeft.

21. lucid - 23 July 2007

Eternal Hope is a fraud. She always pretends to take a neutral stance and listen to all sides before rendering her wise judgements. Then of course she always sides with the thugs.

22. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

cindy and friends have been arrested by the way

23. Sabrina Ballerina - 23 July 2007

Is anyone familiar with andgarden. That poster doesnt ring any bells but the past couple of weeks appears to be everywhere

He is always by armando’s side at TL. I had not noticed him at DK before that, has a uid of around 40k. Never stood out on dk, even around armando until he (aravia) moved to TL. (Unless they all have sockpuppets which many believe now)

My guess, there are a lot of them dorment, he seems to be a friend of the detested MissL. He has played the role of seeing DHinMi as an enemy on TL. A real jerk, so very suited to dk.

I may be wrong, but I think armando will be back there. He still seems to weild enough influence to have fpers kagro defer to him (see today’s diary on defunding) or MB running around engaging with him in either staged or real disputes.

And of course blogmaid, McJoan who seems to think that because she throws up a few copy and pastes on an internet blog, she is now beyond being ‘told what to write about’ as she said in a diary last night on impeachment (amazing how they zero in on those impeachment diaries, no matter how obscure) but sees nothing wrong at all with Kos and she eg, telling everyone else ‘what to write about’!

Mediocre people at best … the most impressive people are the most unassuming. McJoan needs to get a grip. She’s a boring writer and without the hand up. her diaries, as would the rest of them, barb et al, would be sinking like stones on the right side of the page. Kos got he wanted, loyalists who will step all over others for the very dubious privilige of writing on a blog. I have more respect for those who turned it down.

andgarden seems to have ‘come alive’ recently, not much different from the other trolls personalitywise. Edger is another of armando’s acolytes who’s more than a little obnoxious. They are all ‘jiacinto’ types to me …. I ignore anything they have to say, and would hire them if I wanted to destroy a cause by having them speak for it. It is a mystery why anyone would hire people to forward their causes who become so despised that no one will listen to them.


Oow, DK is not the place to go even a few months ago, to push for impeachment …. except of a few people who keep getting harasses anyhow. That movement is happening elsewhere and is going on all across the country in real life, and on other blogs where people expect Politicians to work for the people. Kos is so in awe of these politicians it’s sickening really. So he’s all upset that we yelled at his politician buddies and I guess they’re scared to come back!! Lol! Good, they should be scared of us. Not the other way around.

24. outofwater - 23 July 2007

RV- They don’t have enough kops to stop the diaries that keep popping up. They’re spreading themselves very thin, but the avalanche is unstoppable. They’re going to have to resort to something drastic to regain control. What’s the DK equivalent of calling in the National Guard?

25. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

andgarden is averaging about 100 comments a day

26. marisacat - 23 July 2007


Thanks for the news on Cindy.

27. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

Couldnt find any comments by that poster before 7/6/7. 1046 comments in 3 weeks

28. marisacat - 23 July 2007

LA times has a piece on multinational corps fielding paramilitaries in Colombia. I say, call it Plan Colombia, Private Enterprise… and wink wink wink.

For more than four years, lawmakers have been requesting information from the Justice Department about whether it is investigating “credible allegations” against some of the American firms, including some that were named in detailed civil lawsuits and forwarded to prosecutors, according to letters sent to Atty. Gen. Alberto R. Gonzales and his predecessor, John Ashcroft.

The lawmakers are particularly concerned about claims that the Drummond Co. coal-mining operations paid paramilitaries from the AUC to kill three trade union leaders who were trying to organize workers at its coal mines in 2001. Drummond has been accused in a civil lawsuit first filed in 2002 of using the AUC as a de facto security force that intimidated employees to keep them from unionizing and demanding higher wages.

Drummond has strenuously denied the claims and is fighting them in a civil trial that began this month.

In a letter to Ashcroft on June 25, 2003, four lawmakers on House foreign affairs oversight committees urged thorough investigations of the Drummond case and allegations against two U.S.-owned Coca-Cola bottling firms in Colombia that are also accused in lawsuits of colluding with the paramilitaries. The bottlers, which are independent of the Atlanta-based beverage giant, have denied any wrongdoing.

29. Sabrina Ballerina - 23 July 2007

Eternal Hope is a fraud. She always pretends to take a neutral stance and listen to all sides before rendering her wise judgements. Then of course she always sides with the thugs.

Yep, s/he has her own website, btw, and used to have Shergald (who is banned) posting there. She is like Nightynightkitty, straddles the fence, and MB same thing, but they all land on the side of the dk trolls!

JJB, re andgarden, I agree re them all having a bunch of ids they keep to use at later dates. But anyone can do that ….

Another thing I noticed a while ago. Viceroy, the guy who went at it with armando in his last few diaries (meet you in the star chamber etc) stopped posting, at least under that name, once armando left until four months later …

30. wozzle - 23 July 2007

Outofwater #17, I can only believe that the party has told Markos that they don’t want to be seen as a “partisan mob” (heard that phrase a few times now) and that impeachment diaries/discussions/demands are not appreciated. So much for Kos’ avowed libertarianism.

31. outofwater - 23 July 2007

Did someone say something about drastic measures? Kos now supports the impeachment of Gonzo, that’s got to hurt. They had to do something, the Leader has spoken.. So Gonzo impeachment is an acceptable topic now?

32. outofwater - 23 July 2007

Woops, down the memory hole. The Kos story supporting the impeachment of Gonzo has been replaced with an Obama poll, but the comments are still in place. What a sniveling coward, sounds like someone got a phone call. Where did he get off thinking he could make decisions like this on his own?

33. marisacat - 23 July 2007

hmmm someone emailed earlier that the Kos ”with us or we slap you” thang is in Diaries (yes sorry not been to the FP). I recall he did that with “Bannings” in Feb of 2005…

same person just emailed this:

Meta to the right (22+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
taylormattd, Delaware Dem, shayera, SallyCat, bronte17, bustacap, David Boyle, xanthe, Catte Nappe, 4jkb4ia, vcmvo2, Elise, andgarden, Bouwerie Boy, Overseas, Geekesque, sbdenmon, 4Freedom, TomP

Like every other place, we’ve acquired traditions, and one of them seems to be that pieces focusing on meta-issues are slotted among the diaries.

Think of it as kos stepping down from the podium to stand among the masses.

by Devilstower on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:43:46 PM CDT
[ Parent | Reply to This |Recommend Troll

* [new] Is it because (1+ / 0-)

only the front page stories go out to the RSS feed?

“So, you have a choice: be a fighting liberal or sit quietly. I know what I am, what are you?” — Steve Gilliard

by joanneleon on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:01:33 PM CDT
[ Parent | Reply to This |Recommend Troll

* [new] I think that’s too much thinking (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
shayera, joanneleon

As in, I don’t think anyone thought of that, or planned it that way, it’s just the way things have been, and are, and will be (until kos decides otherwise).

by Devilstower on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:32:37 PM CDT

LOL… don’t ever evidence contrary thought. Or any thinking at all.

I remember when Devilstower was pretty decent. They all go to rot. Like an athletic support, unwashed. Used too much. And still unwashed. It’s a tradition… 😉

😉 forget the “rinse and repeat” stuff.

34. marisacat - 23 July 2007

Just bailed wozzle out of moderation.. sorry!

35. colleen - 23 July 2007

Think of it as kos stepping down from the podium to stand among the masses.

Wow. Devilstower goes flatline.

36. marisacat - 23 July 2007

Jsut FYI…

I have something to do for about an hour and half… then will rescue comments (apologies in advance)


extra large grocery delivery betw 4 and 6, so rescue might b a bit slow again later on.

=^..^= [cat courtesey of ms_xeno…]

37. Sabrina Ballerina - 23 July 2007

Oow, #32 – he disappeared a diary about impeaching Gonzo? How funny, kos can’t even post his own thoughts. So much angst about a blog that influences no one, really … I mean most people come there with their minds made up. They’d be lucky if the changed a dozen minds in a year. They changed mine, I now no longer support the Dem Party, so I suppose they do have some influence!

Btw, re andgarden. This is his own bio for what it’s worth.

andgarden (16+ / 0-)
Recommended by:Lipstick Liberal, Caneel, wilco920, kilo50, rickeagle, leftvet, Ice Blue, Spathiphyllum, Loonesta, deha, shaharazade, nhcollegedem, donnamarie, willb48, Light Emitting Pickle, middle child, Rippen Kitten
Age: 21
Gender: M
State: PA
College: GWU
Your preferred 2008 Presidential Candidate : Provisionally, Chris Dodd
Your level of rage at the moment: simmering

by andgarden on Fri May 25, 2007 at 07:10:37 AM PDT

This diary is on the rec list, about Cindy – it’s live blogging from Conyers office.http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/23/15936/6861

People are getting arrested. This is great, needs to grow and spread all over the country. Seems Conyers is now saying he will not impeach.

So, who are they all afraid of? Kos disappears a diary about impeachment and Conyers changes his mind about impeachment, again! It seems this is a very hot topic and it will now be up to the people …

38. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

State: PA

why am i not surprised…They really need to test the water there.

Pretty odd still for someone to appear out of nowhere and rack up 1000 posts in less than 20 days. His UID means he has lurked silently for about 2 years. His behavior just doesnt match that assumption.

39. bayprairie - 23 July 2007

fred imbibes too much of the orange cool-aide. probably the influence of all those insider email trees that don’t exist.

uprated (14+ / 0-)

those who troll rated this post are engaged in ratings abuse.

Cindy Sheehan has not, to my knowledge been banned. However, she is threatening to abuse the electoral process for protest politics — and to run against a Democrat.

I have long admired Sheehan, but I do not support the idea of running an independent kamikaze campaign against Nancy Pelosi. If she wants to run in the Democratic primary, that’s what primaries are for.

Running as an independent makes her the peace movement equivalent of Joe Leiberman. She and her supporters should know better. And even if they don’t, kossacks — who are part of a Democratic party oriented site — should definitely know better.

FrederickClarkson.com and TalktoAction.org

by Frederick Clarkson on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 11:47:25 AM PDT

his sheehan-leiberman equivalency is despicable. if this is “democratic party leadership” on fred’s part. he can go screw himself.

40. cad - 23 July 2007

Protests are fine as long as they’re ineffective (4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:Alohaleezy, corvo, ca democrat, lil love
And officially sanctioned.

For example, calling JetBlue to tell them that we the people Kos is mad about them not “supporting” DailyKos against O’Reilly is an IMPORTANT and, what’s more, officially sanctioned, protest.

This thingy? About the Constitution and separation of powers? Eh, not so much. This is small potatoes compared to the Very Big Insult JetBlue gave Kos.

Priorities. Gotta have ’em.

by Buddhababe on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 02:00:12 PM PDT

41. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

Is Buddhababe the one they are accusing of being crumedgeon. Thread is too big to follow.

42. marisacat - 23 July 2007

hmm I am not a fan of FC, and that comment is just awful.


She is nto abusing the electoral process. She is exercising her right as a citizen.

Or do we have to say Citoyenne for it to have any meaning.

Since only the military and certain of the judiciary are valued in this fucked country. Oh and the police.

43. marisacat - 23 July 2007

LOL my emailer just sent this

They ain’t listening to lecturing loon threatening purges.

44. outofwater - 23 July 2007

SB-He changed my mind toward the DP as well, but I will say he only hurried it, by now I’d be done anyway.

45. marisacat - 23 July 2007

Col. Ann Wright (44+ / 0-)
Recommended by:selise, SarahLee, joel3000, elveta, TexDem, oldjohnbrown, MA Liberal, venice ca, penguins4peace, bablhous, Timroff, joanneleon, corvo, Annalize5, Heartcutter, Floja Roja, tony the American Mutt, Rogneid, vivycakes, FrankFrink, trashablanca, Absit invidia, Cartoon Peril, blueoasis, StrayCat, Lashe, Data Pimp, markthshark, Noor B, EclecticFloridian, drmah, Wide Awake in NJ, moosely2006, Catrina, Rex Manning, ca democrat, Misty Fowler, marchtoimpeach, IamLorax, EAP, protectedmode, NogodsnomastersMary, kyril, Buddhababe

Col. Ann Wright just reported that the negotiations are hard inside. The Conyers people are asking for another meeting and we are saying, “no.” NOW.

Support truth tellers. Read Jesselyn Radack’s The Canary in the CoalMine. http://patriotictruthteller.net

by Silence is Complicity on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:06:29 PM PDT

46. BooHooHooMan - 23 July 2007

Help! Choking on own barrf!
Hillary runs from liberal, is a “Progressive”

47. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

Hillary isnt a Liberal. Who knew?

48. marisacat - 23 July 2007

Conyer’s …no statement (32+ / 0-)

Recommended by:selise, Momagainstthedraft, TexDem, Miss Jones, MA Liberal, venice ca, penguins4peace, betson08, The Termite, Levity, bablhous, Alegre, boofdah, Annalize5, FightTheFuture, Floja Roja, tony the American Mutt, Rogneid, vivycakes, Cartoon Peril, blueoasis, StrayCat, Sagebrush Bob, shaharazade, Noor B, moosely2006, Catrina, marchtoimpeach, IamLorax, protectedmode, kyril, Buddhababe

UPDATE: Conyers announced he would not make a statement and half the press left.

Then about twenty of us went into the office, including David Swanson, Debra Sweet, Ann Wright, Medea Benjamin and others.

Support truth tellers. Read Jesselyn Radack’s The Canary in the CoalMine. http://patriotictruthteller.net

by Silence is Complicity on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:06:56 PM PDT

Well, now we know why David Swanson was banned (11+ / 4-)
Recommended by:darrelplant, Rico, venice ca, Levity, chimpwatch, corvo, smkngman, FightTheFuture, vivycakes, EAP, junta0201
Trollrated by:Hunter, nota bene, Ray Radlein, Frederick Clarkson
from DailyKos.

He actually takes action against Bush’s criminal government.

Can’t have that.

And isn’t Medea Benjamin a member of the gasp Green Party?

Can’t have that.

Question for Buffalogal or Bisongirl (forgot your name and too lazy to look it up): What kind of donuts do the Kos Kops get? Do they have the kinds with sprinkles? Or jelly filled? Them’s my favorites.

by Buddhababe on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:55:04 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

Interesting to watch in this thread again how terrified of direct action the little lemmings and deputised thugs are.

phatass tries to extricate itself, saying it does paid political work. LOL… it cuts no mustard.

tiny shits floating to the top.

49. BooHooHooMan - 23 July 2007

LOL Rev!
I’ve always been slow on the up beat : {D

50. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

thats going to be her youtube moment.

51. Sabrina Ballerina - 23 July 2007

Oow – SB-He changed my mind toward the DP as well, but I will say he only hurried it, by now I’d be done anyway.

Okay, I take back my statement that he influences no one, that’s two of us so far! 🙂

Revisionist, andgarden didn’t just appear on 7/6, you have to check the archive box when you search. Posts go into archive after a few weeks …. he’s been posting pretty rabidly for a while and obnoxiously ordering people around. Not that anyone paid attention. Just pat them on the head, like the little nasty little lap-dogs they are.

Running as an independent makes her the peace movement equivalent of Joe Leiberman. She and her supporters should know better. And even if they don’t, kossacks — who are part of a Democratic party oriented site

So Darksyde who declared himself to be a Reagan-loving Independent should not be posting on the FP. If it is a Democratic site! Funniest thing Darksyde said was that Reagan was ‘competent’ even when he was senile …. Reagan could do no wrong as far as Non-Democrat, FPer Darksyde is concerned!

Marisacat, I do not think they will be able to control that board no matter what they do …. people care way too much about what is going in this country, and their laissez-faire attitude that all the dying and torture etc can just go on until we get a Dem in the WH is making people absolutely furious. That politics is more important than life, people are just screaming at them. It is a radical, rightwing attitude.

Marcos re Jetblue: I am a fan Lol, and the next day Jegblue sucks It’s too funny, what an idiot he is. I wonder if he’ll still be flying Jetblue all over the place as he boasted when he loved them before he hated them. I bet he will because he is not a man of conviction and they are cheaper …

52. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

good vid from edwards peeps

53. marisacat - 23 July 2007

hmm I think they will jsut ban people. It always has a chilling effect. We shall see.

the biggest screams, ever, have been over the stupid blogroll, which no matter how you come down, is his to determine.

But they all screamed the loudest over that.

I imagine he will do an August purge, before the fall part of the campaigns.

54. Sabrina Ballerina - 23 July 2007

Who is Fred Clarkson? Interesting to see that Hunter, jerk that he is, trollrated that comment. David Swanson was banned, I think I posted a link to his diary yesterday. Why does anyone still see that site as a progressive site? They are out to stop anyone who is actually trying to do something.

But look at how outnumbered Hunter and his troll friends are. That’s how it’s been – soon they will go through the recs and there will be a purge. It can’t happen soon enough imo. People are really just wasting time there …. all they do is sit behind computers and scrutinize the hidden comments like the paranoid freaks they are. They really are getting worse. Honestly, they make Freerepublic look tolerant …

55. BooHooHooMan - 23 July 2007

Soldiers mom taking Dems to task on “Slow Bleed”,
diplomatically saying Dem foot dragging is political opportunism….

56. BooHooHooMan - 23 July 2007

Kucinich: “Dems have failed the American People”

57. Sabrina Ballerina - 23 July 2007

Marisacat, this time I don’t think it will have a chilling effect. Too many good people have been banned or quit, like Cindy Sheehan (they do NOT want people saying she was banned but she was driven off. What a disgrace they are. They would have done the same thing to Rosa Parks … or MLK.

Their hatred is so apparent. It really is hate … venom, towards decent people. But with so many well-known peace activists now banned from there, it is becoming like an act of civil disobedience to be ‘Banned from Daily Kos’! I think soon, people will sign up just to have it on their resume …

58. brinn - 23 July 2007

these “debates” are making me sick.


59. ms_xeno - 23 July 2007

I have been attacked by torrents of paperwork. Just ducking in to welcome back BHHM, and to thank everyone else for highlighting today’s Stupid Parade, so I don’t have to.

Love the Wall St. collage.

[passes brinn some flat ginger ale]

60. misssheiladevore - 23 July 2007

I can’t get the friggin’ debates on CNN video, even though I have all the necessary ingredients.

From what I’ve been reading around, it sounds like this was pre-planned to make youtubers look ridiculous and clinton look good.

and I’m disgusted that it has already been decided. It will be Hillary, because none of the other Dems who stood a chance want to defeat her. Obama’s playing for veep.

The message from politicians is that nothing will change until Hillary assumes office, and waves her magic wand.

I’ve never been so depressed about this country as now. We have completely lost our mooring.

61. marisacat - 23 July 2007


See I don;t happen to think – and never have thought, that the numbers at Kos matter. Oh he trumpets it, part of the cover story…

he has grabbed the spot light (with Dem party help), the choke point he functions as, that he is pointed to, gets the volume of media [choke point work] attention, that diverts people to him, aligned blogs etc. To his site as “liberal opposition within the party”

Like the flat out dumb opinion piece from Gitlin in the LA Times.

That and bundling is his work (imo). And my guess, even with 25 million or whatever claimed thru site pages, 100 million from ActBlue would be broader netting, but blogs cannot claim that, they need to step up the money funnel.

Be interesting to watch.

I am guessing this will be a very big purge. SImilar to Feb 05, bigger most likely.

62. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

i think its very good. They are trying to differentiate know instead of the group hug.

63. BooHooHooMan - 23 July 2007

hey xee

Richardson speaks of universal 401k
portable everyone blah blah blah


64. marisacat - 23 July 2007

they all wanna be veepessa. Maybe a white suit with a tulle shawl. Little white patent pumps with a satin rosette.

have to laugh.

I read an opinion piece today in the Denver press that althought they have not seen much of the candidates in so vaunted “Interior West”, that there is a possiblity Hilarious (or the candidate) will choose a Westerner for Veepessa.

Could be..

I will look it up as it had some interesting statistics about money. Think they said Hilarious is lagging in the Mt, Interior West. Will check.

Oh yeah they are gonna hang her around our necks.

Soon she will wear a top hat. I can see it now. Anything to ditch those breasts… 😉 having used them in the Style section, they served their purpose.

What a mess it all is.

65. BooHooHooMan - 23 July 2007

Is there even room for Breasts on Mt Rushmore?

66. Miss Devore - 23 July 2007

65—maybe on Le Grande Tetons?

67. BooHooHooMan - 23 July 2007


68. marisacat - 23 July 2007

here it is… if the money drag holds up (and I have no idea) she WILL pick a westerner veepessa or one they feel can pull (Obama?)

“In a way, I’m surprised the West isn’t seeing more candidates, considering Denver and some other cities are major fundraising hubs,” said Jennifer Duffy, managing editor of the nonpartisan Cook Political Report.

That isn’t to say that no money has been raised in the region. Overall, donors in the eight states have contributed nearly $19 million to the top seven Republican and Democratic candidates. Contributors in Utah, New Mexico and Arizona gave more than $4 million per state. Romney, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has effectively tapped into Mormon communities in Utah, Idaho and Arizona. He leads all other candidates in regional fundraising with $6.6 million. Richardson has raised $5 million.

Although she is the national fundraising front-runner, Clinton has been outraised in the region by every major candidate but Edwards.

In Colorado, for instance, Obama’s $928,717 in contributions this year dwarfs Clinton’s $206,404.

69. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

I dont know how much plainer Gravel can make it. The DLC sold out the party.

Now Wolf and the pundints are on saying how it was all hillarys. pffft. the pundints dont jive withe the live focus group. obama and biden took it . they keep saying its unscientific.

70. Intermittent Bystander - 23 July 2007

I turned on the TV just in time to see Hillary bending over the edge of the stage, in (code!) orange costume, shaking hands.

Sorry I missed the citizen Tubers, but ain’t gonna tolerate Blitzer and Carlson hoping for reruns.

71. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

Dennis ™ really is trying to rebrand (text PEACE y’all). At the end of the debate Gravel just goes off on the DNC selling out the party to corporate interests and tells everyone to wake up and follow the money to the hedgefunds that are funding Hill/Ob/Ed.

72. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

DLC rather… but the DNC probably sold out too. Anything with a D in it!

73. Sabrina Ballerina - 23 July 2007

Arrests have been made at Conyers’ office. Interesting to remember his basement hearings on the Downing St. Memos when two of the people who are there today, Ray McGovern and Cindy Sheehan were among the few who attended to support him. Today McGovern was arrested. Wonder what happened to Conyers since those days when he wrot the book ‘The Constitution in Crises’ with the help of all of us who were supporting him and helping to sort out the info he was gathering. What a disappointment he is now.

The live blogging diary was interesting. Poor old Hunter and MissLaura didn’t get much applause when they claimed that Buhhdababe was a sockpuppet for the Blogging Curmudgeon. But then, Hunter’s record of identifying sock puppets isn’t great. He mistakenly claimed Adam The Soldier was a sockpuppet also. Anyhow the sockpuppet got more recs than the ‘administrators’ –

exactly. (2+ / 24-)
Recommended by:TeresaInPa, Absit invidia

Trollrated by:Randomfactor, Alohaleezy, MA Liberal, Benito, skippythebox, marina, corvo, Annalize5, EvilPaula, Sharon Jumper, oibme, Nightprowlkitty, Rusty1776, edgery, shaharazade, pissedpatriot, ibonewits, offgrid, LAMaestra, jgilhousen, fayeforcure, KansasLiberal, mamamedusa, DanK Is Back
because at the end of the day only one thing matters to cindy sheehan, and that’s cindy sheehan.

wish I could figure out what motivates her lickpsittle lapdogs, sycophants, toadies, and pawns…what do they hope to get out of this, apart from being made to look like total fools?

Capitalism is the most barbaric of all religions. – Mark Stewart

by RabidNation on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 01:37:55 PM PDT


lickpsittle lapdogs, sycophants, toadies, pawns. (70+ / 0-)
Recommended by:Trix, taylormattd, SarahLee, AlanF, darrelplant, kitebro, arkdem, Alohaleezy, oldjohnbrown, cometman, Builderman, Rico, betson08, ybruti, homogenius, skippythebox, joanneleon, Kestrel228, corvo, Bouwerie Boy, Annalize5, majcmb1, EvilPaula, MajorFlaw, Floja Roja, Silence is Complicity, LivesInAShoe, Lisa Lockwood, tony the American Mutt, pmob5977, oibme, maryru, Reality Bites Back, trashablanca, Nightprowlkitty, Kingsmeg, vigilant meerkat, Absit invidia, Cartoon Peril, Yellow Canary, KenBee, dougymi, blueoasis, StrayCat, Pager, Rusty1776, edgery, dirkster42, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, shaharazade, Mary2002, One Pissed Off Liberal, dotdot, ibonewits, EclecticFloridian, offgrid, Catrina, DWG, Misty Fowler, Empower Ink, LAMaestra, fayeforcure, LightningMan, KansasLiberal, mamamedusa, bricoleur, MouseOfSuburbia, Oliver W Holmes the 3rd, NogodsnomastersMary, Spekkio

Ray McGovern served as an intelligence officer in the Army during Vietnam and spent the rest of his career as an analyst at the CIA.

Ann Wright retired as a Colonel in the US Army and worked for the State Department for 20 years – she was commended for her heroism in evacuating refugees from Sierra Leone.

Ann Wright also has been arrested. Apparently there hundreds of people there today … I really admire these people who are actually out there doing something other than chasing ‘trolls’ which is waaaaay more important than stopping the criminals in DC to certain kossacks. But if you look at the recs things are not looking good for DK. I’m beginning to wonder if they’ll last until the election, given the level of anger there is now, and the difference in the times we are in as opposed to the last few years ….

Sounds like Gravel and Kucinich are the only ones making sense as usual. I can’t see the debate yet … so thanks for the reports …

Miss D, I feel the same way … but then I see people like Ann Wright and others who are not about to give up on this country, and I do have hope …

74. Intermittent Bystander - 23 July 2007

Shit. Tucker is rerunning various Tubers, and sucked me back in.

About the Guiding Light of Wall Street . . . and the desperately flickering ones on Main . . . don’t forget the Olympian hurdle course that Congress erected in the (ClearSkiesean!) Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005. Really hard on the kneecaps when you’re rushing to halt the sale of your house on the courthouse steps in the morning.

75. BooHooHooMan - 23 July 2007

I am sick of Conyers. He has lost all credibility and can save the genteel breezy manner, it’s unseemly in light of the fascisti.

76. marisacat - 23 July 2007

LOL well he may have been elevated beyond what should have been (not uncommon).

Or collapsed years ago and the drama of the endless “minority” fight hid it.

He is inconsequential by now, just a road block.

And when he suggested a later appt I was glad Ann Wright and others refused. Delaying tactic.

His day is long passed. Life has been too easy LOL out ot pasture in the so called Halls Of Power. All the great battles came and the Democrats were at a luncheon. Or a drinking party. Or orororororororo..


77. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 July 2007

I couldn’t bring myself to watch the whole thing, but I found this great question (punted by the Donks, of course). Clinton made me want to scream. She made it ABOUT HER. Dennis smacked her down for it, and the party. Good answer.

Also, this minister’s slapdown of Edward’s faith-based homophobia is fantastic. The follow-up slapdown from the Reverend was great, too.

78. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 July 2007

I have a new piece up:

Safe, Available Abortion on Demand is a Human Right, inspired by moiv.

79. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 July 2007

details from After Downing Street dot com:

Update 1:35 EST: Conyers just arrived!! As he walked down the hall, activists shouted IMPEACH so loud the whole floor echoed. Conyers and his staff took Cindy, Rev., and Ray into a private office without the media. Stay tuned!

Update 2:55 EST: After an 80-minute meeting, Cindy emerged and told the activists that Conyers said “our only recourse is elections,” and the activists groaned. Cindy announced she will run against Pelosi because she and Conyers haven’t “stepped up,” and the activists cheered. Rev. Yearwood is giving a fired-up speech and activists are crowding in to Conyers’ office for the sit-in.

Update 3:43 EST: Capitol Police arrested Cindy Sheehan, Ray McGovern, Rev. Yearwood, David Swanson, and 20 other activists and put them on a police bus. But all is not grim – Cindy is calling it her “campaign bus.”

80. Miss Despair - 23 July 2007

gravel and kucinich are part of the act, I think, of Hillary weaving all the strands together.

predestination and premastication.

the guardian had a heartbreaking article on the Richistan americans:


and, in that context, you think politicians will listen to voters?

reminds me of the Ma Bell swipes of days gone:

“They don’t care. They don’t have to.”

81. Intermittent Bystander - 23 July 2007

Arrested for demanding impeachment. The Black Mariah turns into campaign bus.

Now that’s a savvy ticket to ride. . . .

82. Miss Despair - 23 July 2007

I responded to Jeralyn’s panhandling, which I suspect will be deleted fairly soon

did she get jealous that MSOC was asking people to pony up for her cable bill?

hey, I need a pedicure!

83. Intermittent Bystander - 23 July 2007

Missed despair
the flipside of Richistan’s more heartbreaking, I think.

84. Miss Despair - 23 July 2007

before it gets eliminated:

” enough of cyber panhandlers! (none / 0) (#11)
by Miss Devore on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 10:59:12 PM EST
do you have a clue as to how people earning much less than you wouldn’t, out of a sense of decency, ask this?

[ Reply to This ]
Laptop Drive | 11 comments (11 topical)’

85. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 July 2007

Impeach George Bush to Stop War Lies, Deaths – By Jimmy Breslin

I am walking in Rosedale on this day early in the week while I wait for the funeral of Army soldier Le Ron Wilson, who died at age 18 in Iraq. He was 17 1/2 when he had his mother sign his enlistment papers at the Jamaica recruiting office. If she didn’t, he told her, he would just wait for the months to his 18th birthday and go in anyway. He graduated from Thomas Edison High School at noon one day in May. He left right away for basic training. He came home in a box last weekend. He had a fast war.

The war was there to take his life because George Bush started it with bold-faced lies.

He got this lovely kid killed by lying.

If Bush did this in Queens, he would be in court on Queens Boulevard on a murder charge.

He did it in the White House, and it is appropriate, and mandatory for the good of the nation, that impeachment proceedings be started. You can’t live with lies. You can’t permit them to be passed on as if it is the thing to do.

People, particularly these politicians, these frightened beggars in suits, seem petrified about impeachment. It could wreck the country. Ridiculous. I’ve been around this business twice and we’re all still here and no politician was even injured. Richard Nixon lied during a war and helped get some 58,500 Americans killed and many escaped by hanging onto helicopter skids. Nixon left peacefully. Mike Mansfield of Montana, the Democratic Senate majority leader, said on television that the Senate impeachment trial of Nixon would be televised and there would be no immunity. That meant Nixon would have to face the country under oath and if he lied he would go to prison. He knew he was finished as he heard this. Mansfield said no more. He got up and left. Barbara Walters, on the “Today” show, said, “He doesn’t say very much, does he?”

The second time the subject was Bill Clinton for illegal holding in the hallway.

This time, we have dead bodies involved. Consider what is accomplished by the simple power of the word impeachment. If you read these broken-down news writers or terrified politicians claiming that an impeachment would leave the nation in pieces, don’t give a moment to them.

It opens with the appointing of an investigator to report to the House on evidence that calls for impeachment. He could bring witnesses forward. That would be all you’d need. Here in the impeachment proceedings against Richard Nixon came John Dean. His history shows how far down the honesty and honor of this country has gone. Dean was the White House counsel. Richard Nixon, at his worst, never told him not to appear or to remain silent in front of the Congress. Dean went on and did his best to fill prisons. After that came Alexander Butterfield, a nobody. All he had to say was that the White House had a taping system that caught all the conversations in the White House. Any of them not on tape were erased by a participant.

The same is desperately needed now. Curious, following the words, an investigator – the mind here sees George Mitchell and Warren Rudman, and you name me better – can slap a hand on the slitherers and sneaks who have kept us in war for five years and who use failing generals to beg for more time and more lives of our young. A final word in September? Two years more, the generals and Bush people say.

Say impeachment and you’ll get your troops home.

86. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 July 2007
87. marisacat - 23 July 2007

well jeralyn did it about 3 years ago. Got precisely what she asked for, according ot the post. And she had been quite specific as to model and extras. Think it was a laptop At the time that occurred I had just seen a post of hers talking about being sent a computer add on, camera of some sort (I think by MSNBC) so she could be available for hurry up analysis (cable is so breathtaking).

Remember we are constantly seeing luv admiration and applause for POLITICIANS. Guess that goes for those who channel them as well.

Remember pundits will save the nation.

Now Gilliard (and I was hardly a fan), years ago, asked if someone had a used lap top and would toss it his way. He said anythign would do… SOmeone did, and iirc they met at a spot in Harlem… and somehow that is very different, to me.

88. marisacat - 23 July 2007

A final word in September? Two years more, the generals and Bush people say. — Jimmy Breslin from Madman post.

That is for certain.

89. marisacat - 23 July 2007

I just read the thread at laptop. She got some interesting push back. Someone else remembered she did this not too long ago. 😉

She is now asking a commenter if CO has a Staples.

LOL. I iwll just let that speak for itself.

90. liberalcatnip - 23 July 2007

The irony:

Impeachment is not a fringe movement, it is mandated in our Constitution. Nancy Pelosi had no authority to take it off the table,” Sheehan told her group of orange-clad activists before they began their march from the national cemetery.

91. liberalcatnip - 23 July 2007

Kossacks are so pathetically desperate that this (conspiracy theory?) diary is on the top of the rec list now.

John Conyers is playing his cards very well. He wants impeachment as much as the rest of us. He has let it be known he plans to move on impeachment, when he has the numbers. Therefore today is not a setback.

Conyers realizes what is happening; the public outrage is mounting. He gave Pro-Impeachent forces a face to face meeting today. Afterward they announce that he STILL won’t move on impeachment. When the announcement comes, the Pro-Impeachment forces become angry. The calls for impeachment become louder, more insistent.

Nobody that is calling for impeachment will be demoralized by this. They will dig their heels in, they will scratch and claw harder than ever.

There will be more discussion among the general public. The public demand will grow to deafening levels. More protests, more civil disobedience will ensue. We are already angry. Conyers want us to go out and convince everyone else to be angry too. And when we have created a big enough storm, undeniable shows of public demand for impeachment, then the timing will be right.

By not bowing to our Pro-Impeachment forces today, Conyers has stirred up a firestorm of energy, devoted to making it happen. He is doing this intentionally, and I believe he is brilliant for it.

Just like Pelosi is supposedly a “genius”.

As mcat likes to say, all you can do is laugh.

92. Revisionist - 23 July 2007

catnip — notice its “our” fault. the “people” havent created enough of a storm. why cant we american people do more to help our congressthings. we should be ashamed.

93. Sabrina - 23 July 2007

Lol, I thought conspiracy theories were bannable offenses. Although the Occam’s Hatchett ‘Nancy is brilliiant’ diary was far more conspiratorial. I think he was kidding to be honest, but people decided it sounded good. Can’t blame people really though. It shows how unbelievable it is that our Representatives refuse to hold these criminals responsible. It’s easier to think they must have a brilliant plan. I’d like to believe it.

94. Sabrina - 23 July 2007

Some truth in kos’ ridiculous diary, ignored naturally and the commenter banned, it looks like with recs from the usual crew. Only quibble I have is that it was Meteor Blades who implied in his sneaky way, and with no proof, that Rusty1776 was an ‘agent provocateur.

I don’t know why BarbinMd is asking for proof that FPers have called Opol a troll. Both Hunter and DhinMi certainly did airc in a display of rage that is hard to forget. There were no consequences naturally, and kos just looks ridiculous in that post BECAUSE he willfully ignores what everyone else can see.

But why ask, as the commenter said, it is ignored, which is why no one has any respect for their silly rules. They do not apply unless someone is a target of the same administration.

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander (15+ / 0-)
Recommended by:mott street, Oy the Billybumbler, betson08, Silverbird, supersoling, CinDan, lotlizard, JPete, kraant, lostandconfused, feline, keikekaze, ronny mermaid, kyril, Buddhababe

There has lately been an alarming rise in diaries and comments that seek to impugn (without evidence) the motives of those they disagree with on various issues.

Where was this scolding when DHinMi, MissLaura, BarbinMD, and PlutoniumPage were all calling One Pissed Off Liberal a “troll” (with us or against us–you either support the DailyKos frontpagers’ positions or you’re a TROLL) or Rusty1776 an “agent provocateur” of the Right? Both accusations are baseless slanders intend to bully these two diarists into silence, to intimidate people from commenting in support of the positions of those diarists, and clearly promotes an “us v. them” mentality.

Dead silence from the DailyKos administration then–because the people in question are part of the DailyKos administration.

I myself was targeted by bullies here on DailyKos before I had made one dozen comments, because I had disagreed with someone who fancied herself a “troll hunter”. I was called a troll for citing Noam Chomsky’s Manufacturing Consent with approval.

So, Noam Chomsky and I are both trolls because we think that the media are corrupted by paid advertising.

Of course, nobody was concerned that somebody was trying to run me off DailyKos with these bullying tactics. I wonder how many people have been run off?

I may well be attacked just for posting this comment, but if I cannot speak my mind, then I don’t want to be here. As long as I’m here, I will say what I think.

p.s.: I participated in Senator Feingold’s “censure” diary yesterday, and I’d say that 95% of the responses to Mr. Feingold both disagreed with him, but respectfully. A few people were rude, but then again, people are increasingly frustrated by a Democratic majority in Congress tha will not enact their will and begin impeachment proceedings against (at a minimum) Mr. Cheney and Attorney General Gonzales. The criminals of Mr. Bush’s government flaunt their criminality in our faces and our representatives do nothing substantive to stop them!

Actually, the rudest people in that or any other diaries have invariably been not us ordinary members, but people from the frontpage and the administration, whose verbal abuse and character slanders seem to respect no boundaries of decency or propriety.

Why is the “us v. them” mentality, as well as the rudeness and slanders perpetrated by frontpagers and administrators at DailyKos, ignored?

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds–Ralph Waldo Emerson.

by VeronicaTheViking on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 11:56:04 AM PDT


Banned users aren’t allowed to return. n/t (6+ / 0-)
Recommended by:musing85, ralphie, vcmvo2, Nightprowlkitty, 0wn, jhritz

by MissLaura on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:40:07 PM PDT


Banned users (6+ / 0-)
Recommended by:musing85, ralphie, vcmvo2, Nightprowlkitty, 0wn, jhritz

are not permitted to return.

by Hunter on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 12:40:38 PM PDT


Today’s best post. (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:Oy the Billybumbler, North Country Dem

And possibly the best post ever in a meta diary.

I’ve had the same experience as Veronica, being bullied by Front Page witch-hunters for (perfectly politely) expressing views they disagreed with. I have a thick skin; I got over it. But at least as much of the incivility around here comes from admins as from anyone else.

“Do not forget that every people deserves the regime it is willing to endure.” — White Rose letter no. 1

by keikekaze on Mon Jul 23, 2007 at 02:29:53 PM PDT


Can you give me some links? (6+ / 0-)
Recommended by:musing85, ralphie, vcmvo2, Elise, begone, Nightprowlkitty, jhritz

Where was this scolding when BarbinMD…calling One Pissed Off Liberal a “troll” (with us or against us–you either support the DailyKos frontpagers’ positions or you’re a TROLL) or Rusty1776 an “agent provocateur” of the Right?

Please, I’d love to see these comments I made. Or maybe the people who rec’ed the comment can provide them to me. Here, I’ll help you out. This is the link that contains all but one comment I made in the diary. Here is the other. Please, show me where I called OPOL a troll, advocated a with us or against us mindset, or called Rusty an agent provocateur.

What I’d like to see is one incident where BarbinMd or any of them treated DHinMi, a serial abuser of commenters, or MissLaura or any of her ‘colleagues’ with the same disdain when they behave worse than any ‘troll’, that she shows others who are, apparently in their estimation, not quite human. I have yet to see it.

No credibility at all. Which is why they have continued problems trying to spin the rules as if people are blind. I hope none of these people ever get near a position of influence in our government. They cannot be even-handed on an Internet blog – imagine if they had some real power …

95. liberalcatnip - 23 July 2007

catnip — notice its “our” fault. the “people” havent created enough of a storm. why cant we american people do more to help our congressthings. we should be ashamed.

Well, considering I wrote a post last weekend titled “Impeachment: The responsibility of the citizens”, I actually agree that citizens need to do more to push these damn Democrats so their backs are right back up against the wall. I don’t think, however, that the lack of protests etc is an excuse for any of those Dems to take impeachment off the table. I say: if they’re not going to do their damn jobs, force them with everything you have (short of violence, of course).

That dkos diary is just a fairy story.

96. liberalcatnip - 23 July 2007
97. liberalcatnip - 24 July 2007

Hilarious that BarbinMD is asking for proof when she called me a liar twice last week and when I asked her for proof, I was troll-rated. What a hypocrite.

98. Sabrina - 24 July 2007

Lol, yes, she did call you a liar and has she provided the evidence yet, dare I ask? Check out this thread if you want to see people who are so far gone, I think they really do believe they are God, infallible. What they are is delusional. But his comment from Rusty1776 made me laugh out loud ….

This poor woman must dream about the rulzzz …

It’s not only an insult… (0 / 0)
it’s an insult that Republicans toss at Democrats every other time they speak.

And you haven’t said it for a long time? You said it last week: here. That’s not that long ago.

I touched the Universe — And back it slid — and I alone — A Speck upon a Ball — Went out upon Circumference — Beyond the Dip of Bell —

by Elise on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 09:45:47 PM PDT


A week is a LONG time in the company of (0+ / 0-)
people like you and clonecone, Elise.

Believe me.

by Rusty1776 on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 09:52:04 PM PDT

And in this thread you can see how BarbinMd handles the repeated charge that they are totally unwilling to hold their buddies to the same standards they hold others to. You have to laugh, it’s almost comedic, like a skit you’d see on SNL which would have the audience rotfl. Except they are for real. Oh, and since they accused us of lies, note that a link is included. She has yet to provide one to prove her assertions …. but I didn’t expect it, no one expects much of them.

Daily Kos demonstrates why they are universally seen as totally dishonest and untrustworthy

Interesting how two of the gang rate a comment of Barb’s assuming she is correct in her attack on another poster, only to be proven wrong. Lol! Without thinking or checking they jump to agree to a false charge. Then go on, hilariously to lecture others. Do they not see themselves as others do? The entire blogosphere goes there for a laugh, I think. At least it keeps their hit count up I suppose …

This is familiar (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:MissLaura, vcmvo2

I ask you a question and you don’t answer it, and instead ask another question. It’s just like the other day when you said I misread your email and when I asked if it was okay to post it to clear up where I was confused, you refused to answer me. Weird.

Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool– how much worse lying lips to a ruler – Proverbs 17:7

by BarbinMD on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:23:30 PM PDT


Oops, sorry Karma (0 / 0)
I hit the wrong “reply to” button.

Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool– how much worse lying lips to a ruler – Proverbs 17:7

by BarbinMD on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:25:56 PM PDT


Yet you got rec’d for it anyway. (0 / 0)


by Karma for All on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 08:35:49 PM PDT

And Barb, rather than admonishing her buddies (because they’re her buddies) , as she surely would have done to Rusty eg, for jumping to conclusions without having a clue what it was all about, excuses them, as always, exactly what she is denying they do, even as she does it:

Again, while attempting to make excuses for them, she makes a mistake, is rec’d and is corrected, but no apology this time, or admonishment to the one who rec’d her incorrect comment …. amazing the extent of their dishonesty and they wonder why so many people despise them.

Impartiality? (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:vox humana

You mean we’re not supposed to have opinions? Offer our point of view? Argue when we disagree with someone?

Interesting or nefarious? Sheesh. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that someone saw our earlier exchange and rec’ed the comment for that reason?

Oh brother. There are tons of pro-impeachment diaries. Some good, some not so good, several written by FP’ers, some that were promoted to the front page. But “speculating” as OPOL did was accusing every single Democratic member of Congress of something without a shred of proof. That is a heckuva lot different than advocating impeachment, saying why it’s the right thing to do, issuing calls to action, or criticizing Democratic Congressmen. Something which, I say again, happens in many, many diaries every single day.

Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool– how much worse lying lips to a ruler – Proverbs 17:7

by BarbinMD on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 11:37:39 PM PDT


We didn’t have an earlier exchange. (0 / 0)

Perhaps you’re both confusing me with someone else, or perhaps some just recommend any old response because it is a response.

Impartiality refers to the ability to apply the same standards to all diaries, regardless of what you believe or don’t believe in. There has been a ton of speculation about all manner of politicians from both sides of the aisle on this blog. It is obvious that it is only intolerable in certain cases. Regardless of any of this, unless you’re planning on banning OPOL or those of us that happen to agree with his right to speculate, I think this is a mute issue. My inquiry was whether or not the FP’ers were to be held to any kind of standard of civility by one another, and you’ve already given me that answer.

by Karma for All on Mon Jul 23,

Very nice comment from Karma for All who really is a wonderful commenter and obviously a person with principles. They are the bad guys, so many people have told them so. Mistreating other human beings is wrong. I don’t know when, if ever, they will realize it and that they are doing more harm to the party they claim to care so much about, than any Rightwinger like Bill O’R has ever done … the rest of that thread is just stomach turning to anyone with any decency ….

99. wozzle - 24 July 2007

So long, all, offline for a few days to enjoy the lovely Appalachian scenery. Back soon.

Question – do the Dem powers realize how rapidly avalanches develop?

100. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

Oh Boy…. if ever there was proof that the sleazy White Boyz of the left are in cahoots with the sleazy white Boyz of the right this is it.

July 24, 2007 @ 09:56AM — Krempasky [URL]


As a political matter, I can appreciate the appeal for attention that this “complaint” represents. As a political matter, I can appreciate throwing stones at the other side.

But this is just plain stupid. Keep arguing with Adam, you’ll find it informative – and if you don’t let what he’s telling you sink in, you’ll find your time with the FEC frustrating and embarassing.

If you believe in free speech (as I believe you do), then hang this crap up. It doesn’t help anyone. At all.

Basically neither side wants it publically known that they are nothing but paid operatives to their party. I think that funding from political parties and candidates SHOULD be public… it they really are not getting these funds then there is no reason to have such hissy fits. What the hell are they hiding… this has nothing at all to do with freedom of speech…. it is called transparency.

What is the worse is that these assholes have the nerve to hide behind Cindy Sheehan as to there “street cred”.

#49 — July 24, 2007 @ 10:30AM — Hesiod


It really doesn’t matter what Kos and his editors state is the express purpose of Daily Kos. Even if they are saying it is to elect Democrats to office (except for Joe Lieberman — that kinda blows your argument out of the water, doesn’t it?)…the site itself does not always agree.

You cited the example of Cindy Sheehan. Well, even though she might have been opposed by a lot of people on Kos for her criticism of Nancy Pelosi, she was still able to post a diary and have her say. And a minority of people agreed with her, even if it was not Markos.

Now, compare that to a truly party-run or campaign run website or blog, where dissent is quickly quashed, and off-message commenatary is never expressed.

Daily Kos, despite what Markos may say, is really a free for all debating society where a decent specturm of opinions from the center to the far left are expressed daily.

So, even if the FEC had not alreayd rejected your arguments, your point about Daily Kos being distinguishable from FiredUp is not even true on the merits.

Finally, many of your attacks on Daily Kos are actually more apt to be levelled at people like Rush Limbaugh and Sean hannity who ARE totally and completely geared toward pushing the Republican party and electing Republicans.

And, unlike Daily Kos, they don’t allow contrary opinions to be expressed very ofetm if ever, on tehir programs. The only difefrence is that Limbaugh and Hnannity don’t expressly state that they are Republican party proganada organs, even though that is precisely what they are.

In fact, Limbaugh himself as much admitted this after the GOP lost the Congress. IN fact he said, after the GOP lost in 2006, taht he was “free” and no longer had to carry water for the GOP.

Well, based on that admission, he should be regulated up his yazoo just like Kos. Right?

There are trying to muddy the waters saying that they lose “freedom of speech”… bullshit… the public has the right to know who is paying them to “speecify”… just like when it came out that this administration had so many journalist on there payroll to promote bullshit policies like NCLB. And we KNOW that someone is pulling Kos’s strings … like how yesterday he pulled his front page piece advocating impeachment for Gonzales… don’t tell me someone from the Democratic Party is not paying him and dictating what is to be said on that site.


101. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

Please remove this diary (10+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
clonecone, njgoldfinch, redstater, Bouwerie Boy, Geekesque, witchamakallit, begone, mmontanaman, mango, Jerry 101

This site’s main purpose is electing Democrats. To my knowledge, Ms. Sheehan is aware of this and said she would not post items supporting her candidacy on this site.

by Politburo on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 06:54:32 AM PDT

102. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

Please delete this diary (20+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
clonecone, Plutonium Page, geordie, njgoldfinch, Catte Nappe, DH from MD, redstater, Jeffersonian Democrat, Tom Daschle is still my Senator, Bouwerie Boy, Geekesque, The Raven, Spathiphyllum, begone, mmontanaman, mango, Jerry 101, Dartagnan, tcdup, (Runs With Scissors formerly Cookiebear)

Cindy Sheehan cannot promote her candidacy here.

Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool– how much worse lying lips to a ruler – Proverbs 17:7

by BarbinMD on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 06:55:51 AM PDT

103. marisacat - 24 July 2007

D Throat

thnks, got two out of spam. Will delete dupes…


104. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

his diary is a bad idea. (12+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Catte Nappe, Jeffersonian Democrat, Bouwerie Boy, witchamakallit, Spathiphyllum, begone, mmontanaman, mango, Pager, droogie6655321, Dartagnan, tcdup

First of all Cindy can post here herself, except about her candidacy. It is equivalently wrong, under site rules, for you to post a diary under her name which promotes her third party candidacy.

Also, whether you realize it or not, you are not helping the impeachment movement with your remarks about Conyers. Since Cindy basically turned impeachment into a blackmail situation with Pelosi, Conyers can hardly respond positively to Cindy or anyone with her.

And, this diary will cause alot of angst here, taking time away from productive discussions.

Any party that would lie to start a war would also steal an election.

by landrew on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 06:59:44 AM PDT

105. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

This is not a site for third party (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
begone, carver

candidates. Cindy Sheehan is not a Democrat. Please delete this and READ the FAQ.

This is a Democratic blog, a partisan blog. One that recognizes that Democrats run from left to right on the ideological spectrum, and yet we’re all still in this fight together. We happily embrace centrists like NDN’s Simon Rosenberg and Howard Dean, conservatives like Martin Frost and Brad Carson, and liberals like John Kerry and Barack Obama. Liberal? Yeah, we’re around here and we’re proud. But it’s not a liberal blog. It’s a Democratic blog with one goal in mind: electoral victory

“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.” ~ Diderot

by Bouwerie Boy on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 07:06:18 AM PDT

106. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

o Away Cindy! (4+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
redstater, witchamakallit, mango, howardx

So much for your Goodbye Cruel World act.

Seems your time spent for reflection totalled about 3 weeks, with you coming back as the “face” of the impeachment movement.

This, after saying you were exhausted being the “face of the anti-war movement.”

How many faces do you have?

by mmontanaman on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 07:09:52 AM PDT

107. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

well (4+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
clonecone, Bouwerie Boy, Spathiphyllum, begone

I only speak for myself. I don’t feel threatened. The issue is simply the rules of the site and precedent. If Ms. Sheehan is allowed to break the rules and post about her 3rd party candidacy, what kind of precedent does that set?

by Politburo on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 07:26:35 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

108. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

It’s circumventing the warning she was given (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Bouwerie Boy, begone, mango

Cindy was told not to campaign here. She wrote a GBCW diary seemingly acknowledging that she understood that warning and it seemed like she would abide by it, yet her campaign is being promoted using her writing in this diary.

It has nothing to do with feeling threatened or changing votes. I just hope this is the diarist’s misguided effort to promote her campaign and not something Cindy endorsed. I’m already disappointed by her decision to run against Pelosi, but if she’s willfully trying to circumvent the rules of this site she and the diarist should be banned.

We all have to play by the rules here. If someone doesn’t like them, they have the freedom to start their own blog.

-4.50 -5.44

“They’re all crazy. They’re all crazy except you and me. Sometimes I have me doubts about you.” — Garrett Fort

by Spathiphyllum on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 07:30:36 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

109. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

God Bless Cindy Sheehan (0 / 0)

We are being betrayed by the Democrats we supported. I joined this party to see an end to the war and Bush brought to justice. I will continue to demand, as Cindy continues to demand, that the Democrats do everything in their power every day, not just after they win their damned elections in 2008 to stop the blood spilling and the destruction of our Constitution.

I see nothing wrong with her tactics or this diary, at all.

Thank you for posting it.

by Karma for All on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 07:25:08 AM PDT


Nothing wrong? (4+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Bouwerie Boy, begone, mango, Dartagnan

How about the fact that it advocates for a third party candidate in clear violation of the rules spelled out by the owner of the site?

I’m crumbelievable.

by clonecone on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 07:28:34 AM PDT

[ Parent ]


So, sue Cindy Sheehan. (0 / 0)

Or ban everyone that supports her.

I swear I picture the lot of you running around with little notebooks making checkmarks as the world crumbles beneath your feet.

by Karma for All on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 07:30:11 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

I have a feeling you might get your wish. (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Bouwerie Boy

You knew the rules when you signed up. Why would you join a site if you disagree with it’s fundamental principle?

I’m crumbelievable.

by clonecone on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 07:32:04 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

Is that supposed to be a threat? (0 / 0)

When I signed onto this site it was unafraid of challenging ALL politicians regardless of which side of the aisle they were on. Thus “Crashing the Gates.” I’ve seen a whole lot of nonsense go on on this site, please go threaten someone that believes you have some kind of magic power here.

by Karma for All on Tue Jul 24, 2007 at 07:35:33 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

110. D. Throat - 24 July 2007


Should the DailyKos be Subject to the Federal Election Commission?


I want to know who is paying the little creep to shut up progressive and librul voices.

111. D. Throat - 24 July 2007

Gee look who Adam B. finds who agrees with him

InstaPundit: “this is a terrible idea”.

NRO’s The Corner: “an outrage against the First Amendment that every conservative should fight vigorously.”

RedState: “Let’s be clear, not only is Bambanek woefully uninformed about the law (didn’t we go over this for a whole freaking YEAR?) and its application on the internet, he’s even less capable of grasping the concept (and frankly, value) of free speech on the web…. This complaint is a sorry attempt to use government institutions to silence opponents. I’m almost grateful Bambanek apparently slept from March 2005 through the Summer of 2006, because the stunt has zero chance of success.”

Sleazy White Boyz UNITE!!!!

112. Shilling for the party… « Marisacat - 24 July 2007

[…] to D Throat in the previous thread (see his/her several comments)… for linking to BLog Critics and the Bambenek […]

113. marisacat - 24 July 2007

With thanks to D Throat

A new thread


114. Sabrina Ballerina - 24 July 2007

D.Throat, thanks for those links – probably the only one that counts legally is the one from BarbinMd who is authorized by kos to speak for him.

How sad and ironic that it should be their treatment of Cindy Sheehan that caused this. So many people pleaded with them to act like a progressive site and treat her with respect. Their own arrogance, and to use a favorite word DHinMi, ‘certitude’ that right is always on their side, and their ‘gotcha’ tactics brought this about. Their treatment of Cindy Sheehan in her diary was enough to make decent people cry, and it did ….

The problem is they have already harmed the progressive online movement by their tactics of silencing all discussion on important issues, but this too could harm people other than themselves should it succeed.

Barb’s exchanges with Karma for All in my above post take on a whole different meaning now. This must be the exchange she kept referencing. Hadn’t realized she had that disagreement with her before where she all but threatened to ban her for standing up for Cindy.

Karma indeed ….

I thought it was strange how apoplectic DHinMi, Meteor Blades et al were over Rusty’s diary last week, where Rusty mention how Cindy was forbidden from advocating for her campaign. He came into the thread, insisting that CINDY SHEEHAN WAS NOT BANNED! Rusty did not say that … but re-reading that thread in light of this information, explains their urgency to make sure no one mis-interpreted Rusty’s statement. which we did not of course since most people can read.

But DHinMi was disproportianately out of his mind in that diary even for him, on the Cindy was NOT banned issue. They all were. But they DID drive her off. It was in that diary btw, that Meteor Blades implied that Rusty might be an ‘agent provocateur’. Why not just explain why it was important to clarify that Cindy had not been banned instead of attacking and smearing others? Idiots …. did they think this would never come out?

If they were rational people instead of attacking Rusty, Karma for All and everyone else in that diary, a simple request to Rusty to make his statement more clear would have sufficed and he would have done so. But they think bludgeoning people is the way to go and it never is. I bet this is why Meteor Blades, Barb, DHinMi et al all descended on that diary. I wondered about it at the time, the attacs were so intense over something apparently so benigm.

Now I see why…. they simply cannot be honest and treat people with respect, and it now comes out that that is usually because they DO have something to hide. They should have told people about this.

I have to laugh at Clonecone who is ‘always right’ looking like such a fool now.

Adam B is over at the site of the guy who filed the complaint trying to explain why he is wrong. Maybe he is, and for the sake of all blogs, much as I despise them for their sheer arrogance and would love to see them finally get a good lesson, if this has any merit they will have caused trouble for all online forums and given yet another weapon to the Rightwing to find ways to go after smaller blogs who don’t have the means to defend themselves. This already happened in the early days. But Kos could care less about the little guys ….

Using Cindy to try to save themselves is the ultimate irony … they treated that woman like dirt and NOW they want to use her? They are truly despicable … I am so glad she got out of there. If the thugs had only listened to the voices of reason instead of threatening them also, she might have stayed

In fact now that I remember, some people DID question why all candidacies could not be discussed on a political blog. They might have a real problem with their Ron Paul diaries also … they banned several people for posting diaries about his candidacy and shut down all discussion of it also … those were vile mob attacks on good posters just wanting to discuss a political candidacy on a political site. Elise, Clonecone et al went after them fiercely ….

So it looks like they may have to permit discussions of all candidacies, if Adam B’s argument is to hold water, and invite back the people they banned. They may not have banned Cindy (and they can thank their members who refused to let them for that, the people they slammed) but they did ban several others for talking about Ron Paul’s run for office and you now cannot mention his name there ….

Such smart asses – their behavior in the end will do them in, even if it not this, it is only a matter of time before their treatment of other people comes back to haunt them.

115. aemd - 24 July 2007

Alt-A’s are in trouble,


and so are primes.


This is just starting….the first rumbles on the horizon. What a mess.

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