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How many times can they sell us the exact same rotten tomato? 30 July 2007

Posted by marisacat in Big Box Blogs, DC Politics, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Iraq War, Israel/AIPAC, Political Blogs.

Jesusfuckingchrist.  Can they not dry up and go away (mere rhetoric, I know they never “go away”)? 


Not with the tiniest, most shredded fibre of myself do I believe a word of this:

Op-Ed Contributor

A War We Just Might Win


VIEWED from Iraq, where we just spent eight days meeting with American and Iraqi military and civilian personnel, the political debate in Washington is surreal. The Bush administration has over four years lost essentially all credibility. Yet now the administration’s critics, in part as a result, seem unaware of the significant changes taking place.

Here is the most important thing Americans need to understand: We are finally getting somewhere in Iraq, at least in military terms. As two analysts who have harshly criticized the Bush administration’s miserable handling of Iraq, we were surprised by the gains we saw and the potential to produce not necessarily “victory” but a sustainable stability that both we and the Iraqis could live with.

After the furnace-like heat, the first thing you notice when you land in Baghdad is the morale of our troops. In previous trips to Iraq we often found American troops angry and frustrated — many sensed they had the wrong strategy, were using the wrong tactics and were risking their lives in pursuit of an approach that could not work.

Today, morale is high. The soldiers and marines told us they feel that they now have a superb commander in Gen. David Petraeus; they are confident in his strategy, they see real results, and they feel now they have the numbers needed to make a real difference. [snip]


radio-utopie.deLiars they were, years ago, to sell this war, scabrous baby-faced boys who made themselves barnacles to the war machine. Worse, they sold themselves as Liberal Hawks.  They emboldened and made authentic other liberal hawks, like Josh Marshall, Matthew Yglesias, Oliver Willis, Eric Alterman – others. 

String them up (it’s a metaphor, chump!)!

I was looking at the oblong table Sunday, the liars and thieves, arrayed at table to sup wtih Timmy.  Still there, still here lecturing us – the very ones, some of them, who sold the war going in.  Sold it as a holding pattern, sold the death the dying and the enormous financial losses – all of that on all sides – but for the promoters, the arms dealers, the congress people… and the political pundits.

Oh the list is long.  Smiling and selling.  The entire nation is a used car lot.  How fitting.

I think the summer of 2002 was one of the longest, most trying.  The hideous run-up to the war, as the Guardian called it in their book, The War We Could Not Stop.  I used to go out to lunch with a friend, who was convinced all Bush would do was “threaten war”.  At an Italian porta via on Fillmore St.  When I would think I was about to lose my mind, between the smoked chicken and the tiramisu, I’d throw my arm up and blindly call out:  Waiter!  Another bottle of whatever we are drinking.


Another one who should dry up and blow away, if we are to live.  Seems clear they plan for us to die, by inches…

Then there are all the other energy ideas Congress wishes to adopt–better energy efficiency for washers, driers, boilers, motors and refrigerators; greater fuel efficiency for cars; and more use of wind, solar and geothermal power generation. Good ideas all

[Good Ideas?  Had we done this thirty years ago, then yes.. what a pat on the head from Pete du Pont  — Mcat] 

–especially more fuel-efficient automobiles–but not substantively or immediately very helpful in meeting the challenge of increasing America’s energy supplies to keep our economy, jobs and prosperity increasing.

To do that we must build many more nuclear power plants and increase our drilling for oil and gas. The NPC report says it takes 15 to 20 years from exploration until production begins, and it costs $3 billion to build an average 120,000-barrel-a-day oil refinery. That is just the opposite of the current congressional policy of reducing oil use, blocking access to existing domestic oil reserves, not increasing nuclear power generation, and touting ethanol as another subsidy for farmers.

Guys… we are not winning.


Pulling this forward from the last thread, a comment from wu ming:

In this regard, information strategists can consider clandestinely recruiting or hiring prominent bloggers or other persons of prominence already within the target nation, group or community to pass the U.S. message. . . . Sometimes numbers can be effective; hiring a block of bloggers to verbally attack a specific person or promote a specific message may be worth considering. On the other hand, such operations can have a blowback effect, as witnessed by the public reaction following revelations that the U.S. military had paid journalists to publish stories in the Iraqi press under their own names. People do not like to be deceived, and the price of being exposed is lost credibility and trust.

An alternative strategy is to “make” a blog and blogger. The process of boosting the blog to a position of influence could take some time, however. . . .

Extract of a 2006 report, via Thomas RIcks in-box column in the Wapo… 8) 

Just as shocking as all that gambling in Casablanca…




1. lucid - 30 July 2007

120-Year-Old Woman Claims Smoking Pot Everyday Is Her Secret To Long Life

Just catching up vipes… gone all weekend. My 6 month old nephew is so damn cute.

Anywho – saw this a few threads ago from Tuston. Back about 6 years ago a paper interviewed some guy up in the Bronx who was 112 as to his diet.

His response: ‘bread fried in fatback and a gallon of Wild Irish Rose every day’. Sounds pretty awesome to me.

2. lucid - 30 July 2007

Well, sorry to say, this is what results when feminism is relegated to the “women’s studies” pomo circle-jerk ghetto chockfull of inane babble about “gender constructs” and boobs and clothes etc., instead of taking its rightful place in the history of Enlightenment philosophy.

Two threads back… Had to comment. SV right on – there is more feminism to be found in Kant than in the last 20 odd years of the pomo cricle-jerk… I remember bringing this up around the time of ‘Dances with Poles’ soft-porn offerings.

Feminism is deeply rooted in enlightenment philosophy, as is all egalitarian and humanist thinking. This is very much why I turned my back on post-structuralism for good around my second year of grad school. I finally got it.

3. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Legalize Drugs! Way to go for the pot-smoker and Wild Irish Rose imbiber … lol!

Hi Lucid, six-month-babies are so cute … glad you had fun with him …. 🙂

Marisacat, when they talk abouthow much progress ‘we’ are making in Iraq, I don’t think that includes the Iraqi people. They are probably a teeeny bit closer to getting their hands on Iraq’s oil, or so they think. If the kill enough Iraqis or drive them from the country, I suppose that is progress:

Found this Independent Article through the Angry Arab:

Iraq: One in seven joins human tide spilling into neighbouring countries

Two thousand Iraqis are fleeing their homes every day. It is the greatest mass exodus of people ever in the Middle East and dwarfs anything seen in Europe since the Second World War. Four million people, one in seven Iraqis, have run away, because if they do not they will be killed. Two million have left Iraq, mainly for Syria and Jordan, and the same number have fled within the country.

Yet, while the US and Britain express sympathy for the plight of refugees in Africa, they are ignoring – or playing down- a far greater tragedy which is largely of their own making.

The US and Britain may not want to dwell on the disasters that have befallen Iraq during their occupation but the shanty towns crammed with refugees springing up in Iraq and neighbouring countries are becoming impossible to ignore.

Even so the UNHCR is having difficulty raising $100m (£50m) for relief. The organisation says the two countries caring for the biggest proportion of Iraqi refugees – Syria and Jordan – have still received “next to nothing from the world community”. Some 1.4 million Iraqis have fled to Syria according to the UN High Commission for Refugees, Jordan has taken in 750 000 while Egypt and Lebanon have seen 200 000 Iraqis cross into their territories.


Kalawar is a horrible place. Situated behind a petrol station down a dusty track, the first sight of the camp is of rough shelters made out of rags, torn pieces of cardboard and old blankets. The stench is explained by the fact the Kurdish municipal authorities will not allow the 470 people in the camp to dig latrines. They say this might encourage them to stay.

“Sometimes I go to beg,” says Talib Hamid al-Auda, a voluble man with a thick white beard looking older than his fifty years. As he speaks, his body shakes, as if he was trembling at the thought of the demeaning means by which he feeds his family. Even begging is difficult because the people in the camp are forbidden to leave it on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Suspected by Kurds of being behind a string of house robberies, though there is no evidence for this, they are natural scapegoats for any wrong-doing in their vicinity.

Criminals and liars, all of them … Democrats too who have said not a word about this human tragedy … it is a crime of massive proportions, and sadly will probably go unpunished … rather the perpetrators will be rewarded …

4. marisacat - 30 July 2007

The phrases about the high morale of the mil was imo sheer traitorous words.

How dare they.


PS, from the article:

Everywhere, Army and Marine units were focused on securing the Iraqi population, working with Iraqi security units,

creating new political and economic arrangements at the local level and providing basic services — electricity, fuel, clean water and sanitation — to the people.

Yet in each place, operations had been appropriately tailored to the specific needs of the community. As a result, civilian fatality rates are down roughly a third since the surge began — though they remain very high, underscoring how much more still needs to be done.

It’s been widely reported that we don’t even keep track, anymore, of the hours of electricity available to Iraqis.

5. JJB - 30 July 2007

That Meet The Tim panel should have included Michael Kelly, whose current physical condition would have added nicely to the rarified atmosphere. If those despicable war pimps are smart enough to avoid Kelly’s fate (and I find it just that someone had to pay the ultimate price for this catastrophe they are all partly responsible for creating), at least they’d be forced to look at the literally ugly reality of war and its consequences. Kelly, of course, would still be the same gung-ho moron he was at the time of his death, which would make the spectacle every bit as Swiftian as it deserves to be, the warmongering verbiage issuing from his rotted out skull as the rest of them do their best to keep from vomiting. Timmy could have had it catered, and called it the Naked Lunch edition.

Re Blair and The One True Catholic And Apostolic Church, rumor in the UK has for some time been that he’s already officially converted, but it’s been kept a secret due to the effect it might have had on the Northern Ireland negotiations. Blair is apparently just as much of a religious nut as Boy George, perhaps even more so.

6. marisacat - 30 July 2007


Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:



7. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

more indications of how broken ALL institutionis are in this country:

Cedars Sinai reserves the right to disclose your personal info to protect the President’s life

Are they going to refuse care if you object?

and a chilling piece: Rorschach and Awe.

America’s coercive interrogation methods were reverse-engineered by two C.I.A. psychologists who had spent their careers training U.S. soldiers to endure Communist-style torture techniques. The spread of these tactics was fueled by a myth about a critical “black site” operation.

Interview with the author, Katherine Eban, from today’s Democracy Now.

8. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007
9. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Re Schumer on Roberts’ ‘charm’ – what a laugh. He must have thought Gonzales was ‘charming’ also. He did say, despite all the controversy surrounding him, that Gonzales was a ‘very nice man’. Since when was ‘charm’ a requirement for SCJ? Sheesh, if he’s telling the truth, he ought to step down … this kind of bad judgement is deplorable … and if he’s lying he needs to step down. Btw, Schumer himself is NOT a ‘very nice man’.


Marisacat, re your post in the last thread about the ‘Republican-turned-liberal bloggers – it is amazing when you point it out, how many of them are ‘former Republicans’. Do we have no genuine not-former Republicans who are prominent bloggers?


Paul, what you say about the software is very interesting …. when you say you joined, are they building a blog, or is this just for techies right now? Interesting thoughts on how to run a real Democratic Blog …

As for kos getting away with it for so long, I think that had more to do with Bush and the elections, people sticking together to try to end Republican rule, than with Kos and it was there. I imagine a lot of people put aside their suspicions, I know they did last Fall, until after the Election. Look at his stats since then though. A steady decline so I do think the scam is registering. A perfect time for a new blog to emerge where Progressives and Liberals are actually welcome.

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

for you music geeks, Arthur Magazine is back in August, their Magpie blog is still going strong, and now they also have a Yahoo blog:

I was recently asked by a newspaper reporter to comment on artists licensing their music for use in commercials. For a certain generation of fan, or music journalist, I guess, there is still some vestigial outrage over a musician playing for his supper. For these folks, selling your music to soundtrack an iTunes or VW ad is a big sell-out, a violation of some unspoken, unsigned compact between artist and fan regarding the purposes to which art can be rightly put. Few of us are surprised anymore by this casual betrayal—there’s all sorts of justifications for it, of course, and we all know it’s gonna happen anyway—but still, it stings to be reminded, once again, that nothing is sacred, not even our holy texts (cf. the Doors’ “Break On Through,” Nick Drake’s “Pink Moon”). We hate to learn that even our monks and nuns have a price.

Get over it, says everyone under 35. Raised on the Market Knows Best principles promulgated by hip-hop, sports, celebrities, government, public education and other wings of corporate capitalism (the real winner after the failed counterculture revolution of the Sixties), most of Gen X and Gen 9-11 don’t blink once at all the formerly taboo-on-their-face money-makin’ practices that have become commonplace in today’s music industry. (There’s that word, “industry”: whenever a Mode of Expression or Field of Endeavor becomes an Industry, you can be sure a steep decline in quality is around the corner.) For most of us, there’s simply no issue here. An artist, if they’re not a fool or some weirdo on a self-denial trip, will of course sign a deal with a record label owned by a sleazy transnational corporation, perform on tours sponsored by other sleazy corporations and the US military recruitment machine, and participate in whatever crypto-payola scams are going on right now (radio station “charity” wintertime acoustic concerts being possibly the most egregious offenders in this category) in the hopes of getting some airplay, some screentime, some press, some publicity, some tour sponsorship, some ringtone deal, some movie soundtrack deal, some videogame deal, some slot in Starbucks in-store programming and yes of course, the grand slam, at least for a “new”/”fresh”/”buzz”/”breaking” band: a TV AD DEAL. Those who fail to do so are unlucky, or unworthy, market failures, yanked offstage by the proverbial cane–held, of course, by Adam Smith’s Invisible Hand.

That’s just the presentation, here’s the meal:

What if we turn it around a bit, and ask WHY IS IT that the only way a young musician can get across to the general public these days is as wallpaper for some other product? Why is it that we can’t hear new music on the radio, or see new music performed on television? In other words, why isn’t music on its own, given its own space in the still-powerful mass media? Isn’t music good enough? Or, could it be that it’s just not profitable enough? And if the latter is the case, shouldn’t we ask why the mass media system–and our planet’s airwaves, which belong to all of us–are structured in such a way that our right to meaningful, rich, sensuous, full-of-life art is increasingly denied?

What I’m saying is: artists have not failed their obligation to their art by selling out to the system. Instead, the system itself has failed the artists, and by extension, the listening public. But even as music-as-itself has been deemed insufficiently profitable, people still want to hear it…and so our nation’s finest corporate super-brains have diligently supplied us with the most efficient, state-of-the-art music industry schemes available: Fox’s “American Idol”–a quasi-industrial training film disguised as a TV game show/soap opera, an idea borrowed from the Brits–and CBS’s corporate reality show “Rock Star,” which, in its initial season, featured actual humans competing on camera to replace the dead guy in INXS, the whole affair breathlessly chronicled by the co-hosting team of Brooke Burke and Dave Navarro.

The next paragraph, if you are interested and want to follow the link, is a savage takedown of Navarro, the kind you can only deliver toward someone you treasure.

11. Paul - 30 July 2007

From NBC’s Mike Viqueira
A group of House Democrats will introduce a resolution calling on the Judiciary Committee to begin impeachment proceedings against Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.

Rep. Jay Inslee (D-WA) will sponsor the measure. It will be dropped in the hopper tomorrow.

It’s too early to say whether it will actually get anywhere.

Here’s the text of resolution…


12. marisacat - 30 July 2007

yes but a few months ago it came out that the DC dems dispatched Inslee and that soccerette Murray to tamp down state level impeachment roilings at the state level in Washington.

They plan nothing but to bat around a Bush family retainer. Til told to drop it.

13. D. Throat - 30 July 2007

This whole O’Reilly bullshit… is a mantra to ingrain Kos’s name and stupid ass blog in the minds of wingnuts as representatives of the left… which he is not nor ever was.

So the next time Reid or Schumer needs the “left” to roll over… they will happily quote Kos … and if Kos says so that means the entire left says so too…

It is like all of those fools… who said that Roberts must be okay since some wingnut ministers were questioning him… I even think Kos FP’d some shit like that… So we no longer base our decisions on facts… but because the other guy got upset… but meanwhile the Democrats confirmed Alito because his wife “cried” during the questioning… You no longer need an law or econ degree to be a politician… just acting classes.

14. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

XicanoPwr delivers a story with a happy ending (rendered bittersweet by the details):

Over the weekend, I received an email from Jay Johnson-Castro about a family that was separated at the border by our immigration rules had a happy ending as they finally reunited in South Florida last Friday (video). Abel Gómez showed up one day last month at a U.S.-Mexico border crossing in Texas certain that immigration authorities would let him in, along with his wife and two children. As a Cuban refugee, Gómez, was paroled into the US under the wet foot/dry foot policy. But his wife Ocdalis and children – 2-year-old Abel and 6-year-old Winnelis – are Venezuelan. Border Patrol immediately detained them and took them to the T. Don Hutto Residential Center in Taylor, TX.

The current state of the immigration debate in the US has affected the we handle immigrant families. Unfortunately, understandable concerns over national security have resulted in increasingly restrictive immigration policies that have led to an increase in immigration detention like the Gómezs. According to Women’s Commission for Refugee Women and Children and the Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service, on any given day, the government has the capacity to detain more than 600 men, women and children picked up along the border and in major cities. These stricter migration controls are now forcing migrant families to live in tiny cells, like the Hutto Residential facilities. Within each cell contains either a single twin bed or a twin bunk bed with a porcelain or stainless steel sink and toilet. There is no divider separating the sleeping area from the toilet area, leaving families exposed for their family and the world to see.

Even though Ocdalis was happy to be reunited, she also was sadden by the horrors that are occurring within the walls of the Hutto concentration camp.

“I am extremely happy, of course,” she told reporters gathered at MIA. “But I also feel sadness.”

She paused for several seconds and then burst into tears. “Some people qualify for bond and release, but because they don’t have money for bond they are deported with their children,” Ocdalis said, sobbing as she spoke. “It’s very hard being there.”

She said detention officials did not provide adequate medical care for her son. She said he had a persistent cough and he only got cough syrup. Carl Rusnok, a spokesman for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Dallas, said he “will look into the matter.” She said her daughter got better care when she had an asthma attack.

Why we are so lacking in basic humanity in public policy in this country continues to fill me with sadness and shame. More shameful is the vile sewage that XicanoPwr quotes toward the end of the piece, noting the nativists’ response to the story:

The reunification of Gómez’s family is a joyous occasion, however, to the nativists of this country, as one blogger, Malcontent of The Two Malcontents blog, put it, they rather “toss these lying breeding illegal aliens back over the border and shoot to kill if they attempt to enter again.”

I’m sure the fucker who wrote that would have been eagerly posing for photos at the hanging tree, if he got the chance. Piece of shit.

15. D. Throat - 30 July 2007

Actually I think the whole Gonzales impeachment … is just giving meat to hungry dogs… and now I do believe that Kos jumped the gun and had to pull the first FP about Gonzales…

Suddenly, it has gone from shout to impeach Cheney and Bush… to Gonzales…

16. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

wow, I have no idea how I screwed up the blockquoting on that one. Sorry!

17. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

When is an accidental civilian death not an accident?

With a hat tip to WIIIAI, I refer readers to a most interesting article by Mark Benjamin in Salon, which touches on many issues that have been discussed here over the years. We’re told that there used to be a “magic number” of 30 – if you hit 30 as the anticipated number of civilians killed, the airstrike had to go to Rumsfeld or Bush personally to sign off. It’s interesting that it’s a fixed number, obviously based on anticipated negative public relations value. It doesn’t matter if you’re aiming for Saddam Hussein, or a small unimportant platoon of Iraqi soldiers, and it doesn’t matter if the chance of success of the strike at hitting the real target is 100% or 10%, the “magic number” is still 30. Which indicates that the number had nothing to do with proportionality (as required by international law), just p.r.

18. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007
19. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

thanks for cleaning up my mess, Marisacat.

20. Paul - 30 July 2007

Sabrina Ballerina:
Paul, what you say about the software is very interesting …. when you say you joined, are they building a blog, or is this just for techies right now? Interesting thoughts on how to run a real Democratic Blog …

Sabrina, the Free Software Foundation
was established by Richard Stallman.

He also co-founded the Electronic Frontier Foundation
The EFF is sort of like the ACLU for a digital age.

Richard Stallman is the author of the General Public License. The software we’re using now, WordPress, is published under the GPL, IIRC.

GNU/Linux, the operating system is also published under the GPL.

Other free software projects which are putting pressure on Microsoft are published under licenses which are derived from the GPL, such as the licenses for the Apache web server and Mozilla Firefox.

21. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007
22. Paul - 30 July 2007

The Free Software Song was originally written by Richard Stallman in 1993, IIRC.

The lyrics say “Hoarders can get piles of money. That is true, hackers, that is true.

But they cannot help their neighbors. That’s not good, hackers, that’s not good.”

Technically, MarKos of DailyKos is a “Hoarder” and he’s getting his piles of money for hoarding the source-code.

It’s a loop-hole in the GPL2 license which has been addressed in GPL3.

Kos was associated with (Free) Open-Source Software because he was using the user-moderated forum, Scoop for DailyKos.

Scoop was, as I mentioned before, published under the GPL. Kos took lots of money from people who were so grateful for the software, and he used it to improve the software, but he didn’t share the source code.

He’s not required to share the code because the GPL2 license wasn’t made to address software which is run from a web-server and never re-distributed.

23. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007
24. Paul - 30 July 2007

I may have been confused about the EFF. That was founded by John Perry Barlow, an associate of Richard Stallman.

25. Paul - 30 July 2007
26. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

How Prejudice and Bias works

One of the things that always crops up in vast discussions of racism, sexism, or prejudice of most kinds is the argument that businesses would never engage in biased, bigoted actions because it would be bad for the profit margin. The recent flare up in the Geico Caveman post sparked my thinking on this, but it’s found in many areas, including in the debate surrounding Gender Bias in SF fiction markets. Magazine editors would never be biased against women because they want to sell to women says Doug Cohen. The problem with this stance, in all its forms, is that it’s short-sighted and based on an ignorance of how prejudice, bias, and bigotry work in America.Privileged people often don’t understand how prejudice works because (surprise!) they don’t experience it. Yet privileged people are usually the first to step forward and proclaim that something isn’t racist, sexist, etc. As we’ve already covered here, only those to whom the prejudice is happening can rightfully declare the prejudice to be over. They’re usually the only ones who fully understand how it works as well. Add to that, most folks who claim that “No Business Would Ever” aren’t actually in a position to know.

So let me try and school some folks on how racism/sexism/prejudice works. First of all, there’s less overt bigotry in American business than there used to be. Not very many signs that say “No Niggers or Mexicans” or Colored fountains. (Not to say that these things don’t exist at all. They do, just not as much.) However, that does not mean that racism is over. There are still plenty of companies that have discriminatory hiring and promoting practices. The glass ceiling hasn’t disappeared. To say that this doesn’t filter down to their marketing practices is to live in ignorance. Just looking at the commercials on network TV, how many feature white people only? How many feature just token people of color? When is the last time that you saw a commercial that featured all people of color that wasn’t on a specialized network (CW, BET, etc.) or during a “black show”? Some may argue that companies would be shooting themselves in the foot by being racist, and yet they advertise non-race specific products without nary a whiff of non-white people on the screen. What those companies understand that many consumers don’t is that this works. They can employ this subtle racism, wherein they cater to the privileged and ignore the not-privileged, and not suffer financially for it. People of color will still buy the products.

It seems like there aren’t too many network execs that worry about “shooting themselves in the foot” when it comes to green lighting a show with no people of color whatsoever. Sure, they want lots of viewers so they can sell advertising slots. But which demographic do advertisers care about? Males. White. 18 – 40 years old. If a show skews too female (and it’s not on Lifetime) or, god forbid, too black (if it’s not on the CW or BET), how long will it last?

One of the best things about leaving/being pushed out of the Big Box Blahgs is following random links from blogs linked to by the quirky, smaller blogs that I regularly enjoy, like this one … so many smart people with unique perspectives and things for me to learn.

Even with all this you still get people who claim there could not possibly be this problem. Why? Not only because they can’t see beyond their own prejudice but because they think things are fine the way they are. They don’t want to change. They are happy and comfortable. It doesn’t matter if other people are or not.

Lucky for the genre, those people are about to be squished like little bugs under the collective heel of enlightened people.

This is what needs to happen on a massive scale for things to change on a wider front. It won’t be until a vocal majority of people decry racism in all its forms that something will be done about it. We’ve been lulled into a false belief that, because of the Civil Rights Movement, there’s nothing more to do. We’ve been told that it’s all okay because we have BET and businesses would be stupid to continue with racist practices. Meanwhile, executives laugh all the way to the bank, profiting off ignorance and apathy.

Racism, sexism, bias, prejudice, and bigotry work when people in power are smart about the implementation. As long as it’s subtle, quiet, and only truly discussed amongst people who are secure in their power, everyone else is left to either suffer from it or argue about when and where it actually exists. For me, the discussion about whether prejudice exists is over. I know it, I see it, I experience it. The discussion isn’t even about in what way it exists. For me it’s about how we can eliminate it.

This is one white male who’s glad to have “met” writers like you all and newly-added-to-my-bookmarks Angry Black Woman, out here in the REAL blogs. Vital, lively discussion is going on, bubbling under the surface. Screw the sold-out blog-heelers and their bought off Donklephant masters.

27. Hair Club for Men - 30 July 2007

Speaking of Richard Stallman, he also had a hand in Venezuala’s switching over to open source software in its oil industry.


Venezuela (November 15, 2004 to November 22, 2004)
I spent a week in Venezuela, giving a speech and some interviews at an event which invited speakers from all across Latin America. During the event, the state oil company PDVSA announced its decision to switch 100% to free software. Their decision is not based on convenience or cost; it is based on sovereignty.

During the event, the state oil company PDVSA announced its decision to switch 100% to free software. Their decision is not based on convenience or cost; it is based on sovereignty

Their computers used to be handled by a US company, SAIC. When opponents of President Chavez tried to drive him from office by shutting down oil protection, the US government helped out by telling SAIC to prevent them from using their computers. PDVSA therefore knows from experience that using non-free software means you are at the mercy of the developers, and has decided to solve the problem for good and all.

28. Hair Club for Men - 30 July 2007

Obama is currently having his Howard Dean “even handedness” moment. It was inevitable and nothing he did was going to stop it.

This is standard operation procedure for the corporate media. They’re letting Obama know who’s boss, that they can make or break him.

Talk to Chavez? Talk to Iran?

How dare he?

But it could have been about anything else.

Now Obama has a choice.

He could show some spine and say “give me a break. Bush talks to Putin. I’ll talk to Chavez”. And then he’ll be relegated to Dennis Kucinich land.

Or he could do what Dean did and issue a mea culpa. He could recognize that this moment is part of the hazing process, part of the test to see if you’re in the club or not.

Personally I think Obama is in his heart of hearts a relatively sane moderate. But he’s also ambitious and I have no doubt we won’t be hearing anything more about meeting with Chavez from him in the near future (not if he wants the VP spot).

29. jam.fuse - 30 July 2007

wrt MITM’s #10 — Music has the capability of bringing white, black, brown, yellow, male, female, gai, straight, young, old, etc. together in massive numbers, and is sometimes, if not often, created by intelligent, thoughtful, free thinking individuals; as such, easy access to music’s (whatever the style) most brilliant artists is threatening as hell to the PTB. Consequently the only acts the industry wants these days are either insipid, safe (i.e., boring) pop songs or those that funnel society’s unarticulated rage into expressions of anger, aggression and/or misogyny, which, sadly, there is currently no shortage of. I have long said, these days talent is a liability. If the Beatles were around in these degenerate times, they would probably be unknown and living in their parent’s basements. There are a few left with integrity though, such as Neil Young, whose music I believe you’ve never heard on any stupid ass teevee commericial, and who penned the following:

This Note’s For You

Don’t want no cash
Don’t need no money
Ain’t got no stash
This note’s for you

Ain’t singin’ for Pepsi
Ain’t singin’ for Coke
I don’t sing for nobody
Makes me look like a joke
This note’s for you

Ain’t singin’ for Miller
Don’t sing for Bud
I won’t sing for politicians
Ain’t singin’ for Spuds
This note’s for you

Don’t need no cash
Don’t want no money
Ain’t got no stash
This note’s for you

I’ve got the real thing
I got the real thing, baby

(#23 lol mm)

30. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

Who Killed Pat Tillman? And why?

Mary Tillman has long suggested that her son was deliberately murdered by his fellow soldiers. After initially dismissing her allegations as a case of grief-gone-over-the-edge, I’ve come to believe that there is something awfully fishy about this whole incident.

After all, why were Army attorneys sending “congratulatory e-mails” to each other for fending off criminal investigators on the case? The general who kept the details of Tillman’s death from the Tillman family and the public claimed that he was having a problem with his memory, and that’s why he just couldn’t recall any important details of how Tillman’s death was handled. Doctors who tried to reconcile the forensic evidence with the official account urged that a criminal investigation be pursued, but they were rebuffed. What’s really suspicious, however, is that evidence of enemy fire at the scene was singularly lacking: no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any equipment damaged. According to numerous reports, there were no Taliban in the area.

Now, I’m not willing to go as far as this guy, but I have to wonder: what if that meeting with Chomsky had come off, as scheduled, and Tillman had arisen to become a vocal critic of the Iraq war – which he bitterly opposed – and had even become involved in politics? The War Party’s own propagandistic creation would have turned against them – a form of “blowback” that would have had a devastating effect on the effort to shore up support for our crazed foreign policy. Especially if Tillman teamed up with Democratic Party operatives, either to run for office himself or to endorse candidates opposed to the war.

The backtracking, the misinformation, the deliberate withholding of documents that required a FOIA request in the first place, and now the demotion of a general involved in the “investigation” – all point to a cover-up of massive proportions. Tillman had been keeping a journal since the age of 16, and he took it with him to Afghanistan. Two days after his demise, the journal, along with most of his personal property, mysteriously vanished. Adding another layer of murk, the White House is claiming “executive privilege” in refusing to release documents dealing with Tillman’s death. But who is being protected?

31. wilfred - 30 July 2007

NBC now reporting that Roberts had ‘another seizure’ today. Evidently he had one a few years ago.

Strange, I had never heard that before.

32. marisacat - 30 July 2007

Bailed out of Moderation:

2 from Madman

and one each from jam.fuse and Hair Club…

so, 4 upthread…


33. marisacat - 30 July 2007

Oh the sunny Mr Roberts.

With a history of seizure.

So classic.

34. marisacat - 30 July 2007

w/r/t Obama and “evenhandedness”… Hair Club at # 28

that does not explain why he kept it going a week – and raised the stakes thru the week.

Nor why the week belies the first spin his people tried to put on it in the spin room.

I think he is trying to unstall his numbers, see if he cannot budge the gap between his solid lag behind Mama.

What a bunch they are.

35. marisacat - 30 July 2007

One thing about the Tillman family, there will be no wrongful death suit. No distribution of millions. Not that you buy people off, but that sort of battle is hard. Many people just want to heal and try to stay alive themselves.

I read a while ago that the survivors of the three Wellstones got 27.5 milllion from the aircraft manufacturer and assorted other defendants.

Mrs Tillman reminds me of Mrs Grissom (Gus Grisson’s widow, the three who burned up in the space capsule, all those many years ago). She won’t be shutting up.

36. Hair Club for Men - 30 July 2007

that does not explain why he kept it going a week – and raised the stakes thru the week.

Oh. I think it’s to his credit he didn’t immediately back down but it’s clear that the corporate media just showed their hand.

They don’t necessarily want him to lose, just to get in line behind Hillary and make a few “mea culpas” before they let him back in the club. He’s been getting his ass kissed up until now and they decided to put him in his place.

Of course the result of the whole thing is to narrow the debate to a ridiculously confined space. Does the president meet or not meet with foreign heads of state “we” don’t necessarily like? Heads I win. Tails you lose.

And what happens is that if you turn the volume up high enough it’s not Hillary on the right and Kucinich/Gravel on the left. It’s Hillary on the right and Obama on the left. The spectrum’s been narrowed.

Look for Gravel and Kunich to get shoved out of the coverage and debates completely.

37. Hair Club for Men - 30 July 2007

Of course the corporate media might not succede in making Obama back down. But what happens if he “wins”? We have a presidential canidate who thinks the president might some day in the future but only if he really wants to meet with the president of Iran or Venezuala. Since Nancy Pelosi’s already gone to Syria and since the Bush admininstration is already holding talks with the Iranians, it’s a pretty empty “victory”.

38. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Paul, thanks for the links – I haven’t read through them yet, and this is new to me, so I’ll wait before asking questions …

Mitm, that article on racism is very good … thanks for posting it.

Hair Club, Obama has emphasized diplomacy as part of our foreign policy. He most likely will not get the nomination, I think the fix is in and Hillary is the choice of the Party .. I don’t know why we even bother with the facade of primaries anymore.

Given that, and yes he may want to be VP, but you know what, I would love to see what would happen if someone just did the right thing. He might be surprised. What does he have to lose?

Like him or not, he does have a way of communicating with people. This could be a defining moment for him. He could use his superior communication skills before they destroy him, and lay out his reasons for speaking to the leaders of countries like Venezuala and Cuba. The country is sick of war …. five years ago it would not have worked, but now everything is different.

If he took a firm stand now, I would consider supporting him …. and there are so many good arguments that he can make to a country sick of war, sick of terror threats and sick of Candidates who listen only to ‘policitical consultants’. If it’s what he believes, that will come across.

Yes, they may smear him, but that’s already started. He could change the whole campaign and force the war-mongers to explain why they do not want a world without war when it is so possible. So, in my not very political opinion, I think he should go for it! It is the right thing to do. He might be surprised at the results ….

39. marisacat - 30 July 2007

well she has moved right, all along. The media surfaced with a comment of hers, when she ws seeking contrast with Bush/Cheney from the past (forget when) that urged ”meeting with”… in not too dissimilar terms…

Her operative Howard Wolfson is who has pushed back hardest, using the old trope about Ahmadinedija (sp) and the “denier of the holocaust” foo foo. To fluff the Jewish vote. And whatever else.

I think his mistake (in all senses) was boyish, he answered without thinking of all the [cough choke strangle] nuances of the question. I don’t know if she was ready to move, if they had caught a similar recent answer of his somewhere or other… but it seemed quite a smooth game on her part. Hers was the first ratchet, iwth “irresponsible and naive”…

There should be a new poll soon. See if anyone got anything from this minuet.

I have one emailer who thinks he is going for the presidency… as opposed to Veepessa…

I don’t know. LOL Blinded by the fact I dislike them all just about equally.

I did read an interesting article recently that she is the first presidential candidate-to-be – in a long time, of either party – that is enough of a machine in her own right to reject whatever Veepessa the party tries to force on her. Before that I read a piece in the Denver press that Obama is seriously outraising her in the “Interior 8” states.

She may not go for Obama but she will need a Westerner, or so it sounds like. At least the other side of the Rockies if not someone from that so vaunted Mt West, Interior 8.

May they all congeal on a Sierra peak… 😉

40. marisacat - 30 July 2007

hmmm local abc affiliate went with ”grand mal” seizure…

41. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Lol, Marisacat … speaking of Hillary though, Dengre (one of the few people left on DK that I look for as he has been doing a really professional series of diaries on the Abramoff affairs, especially from the Marianas Islands/Tan Family/Slave Labor angle.

Today he has another excellent diary on the Rec list (now over 500 comments) which revealed that Hillary took donations from members of the Tan Family. He revealed that he tried to get her campaign to return the donations over the past several months, but nothing came of his request.

The total amount is $10,000 so it’s hard to understand why they would not just get rid of it as any money from that family is tainted. Dengre suggested that this is known to the Republicans and they would have revealed it after the nomination. Don’t know. Anyhow, most commenters were disturbed by the info and said it should be returned.

Then there were the Hillary defenders, GregNYC eg, called the diary ‘thrash’ or a ‘hit piece’ – Not so if it’s true, and people have a right to know who is funding these campaigns …. I’m sure the diary will be seen by her staff so we’ll see what she does now.

The WaPo has an article about her campaign and the 15 women who are closest to her here ….

Gatekeepers of Hillaryland

42. marisacat - 30 July 2007

from the AP report in the NYT:

Doctors called Monday’s incident “a benign idiopathic seizure,” Arberg said. The White House described the January 1993 episode as an “isolated, idiosyncratic seizure.” Both descriptions indicate that doctors could not determine the seizure’s cause or link it to another medical condition.

Larry Robbins, a Washington attorney who worked with Roberts at the Justice Department in 1993, said he drove Roberts to work for several months after the incident. Robbins said Roberts never mentioned what the problem was and he never heard of it happening again.

In 2001, Roberts described his health as “excellent,” according to Senate Judiciary Committee records.

43. marisacat - 30 July 2007

well the Tan money has come out before, I remember it reported some months ago in the NYT, at that time they used the figure of 8k.

She seems fine with all of this questionable foreign sourced (but legal and rooted stateside for reporting purposes) money, like “Senator from the Punjab” and iirc that involved a major donor (US citizen originally from the Punjab) that is involved in data mining.

LOL I see them all as congealing fuckball.

44. Hair Club for Men - 30 July 2007

So the wingnuts got one of their own to get photographed giving Cindy Sheehan the finger.


I wonder if they find it funny on the Daily Kos?

If I were Cindy Sheehan I’d actually get that photo printed up and use it as a poster.

“Thinking of letting your son enlist? This is what the neocons really think of you. This is what George Bush thinks of you.”

45. Paul - 30 July 2007

Marisacat, I think you’re right that they’re planning to use the impeachment hearing of Gonzales just for a bit of kabuki theater.

Hopefully, something unforeseen happens during the hearings and it escalates rather than just appeasing some while running out the clock.

They need to scare Gonzales with the threat of decades in prison and thereby cause him to rat out his boss.

Sabrina Ballerina,

The free software sector is a whole world of its own internal politics.

The main thing to understand is that we need to raise money to improve our technology.

It won’t cost very much to get it figured out, and it’s already ear-marked for specific developers.

Kos is a hoarder of source-code. For me, that was among the first signs I saw that something wasn’t right in that blog.

Hair Club for Men,

Thanks for posting that link about Richard Stallman’s experience in Venezuela.

I thought he must have had something to do with that arrangement.

I’m a big fan of Hugo Chavez and Richard Stallman, so that was a great read for me.

46. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

If Roberts only had one other seizure in his entire life, that is strange. Withdrawal from alcohol is one reason for a single seizure …

47. Revisionist - 30 July 2007

Or too much coke

48. marisacat - 30 July 2007

CBS News was a bit blunter, he was driven to work for several months following the ’93 event as he “was unable to drive”.

The small boy shits, O’Hanlon and Pollack, are all over the evening news. All channels..

49. Hair Club for Men - 30 July 2007

I’m a big fan of Hugo Chavez and Richard Stallman, so that was a great read for me.

Stallman’s actually criticized Chavez about shutting down the TV station. But he kept it in perspective. It didn’t make him the new Hitler.

I wonder how many Kosniks have heard of this?


50. marisacat - 30 July 2007

They need to scare Gonzales with the threat of decades in prison and thereby cause him to rat out his boss.

IMO that is won’t be happening. And Gonzales knows it… The Kabuki is to douse the word “impeachment” set it on fire do a little dance – and walk away.

Unless you notice spine in DC, I don’t.

51. Revisionist - 30 July 2007

#48 –

I have a cousin who developed epilepsy around 19-20. He was discharged from the marines. He CAN NOT get a drivers license since he could sieze at anytime.

Not driving would have been a good idea if the doctors couldnt pin point if it was some form of epilepsy or gladular.

I am not sure if humans are like dogs but one of mine has one about every year -year and half. He clusters so it can be a 3 day ordeal

52. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007
53. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

They covered up a major health problem with the Chief Justice, and the Donks helped. I refuse to believe that they weren’t aware of this.

54. delarue - 30 July 2007

I wouldn’t read too much into the seizure. I had a grand mal seizure a couple of years back – they did an MRI – nothing wrong, I was in perfect health. In the end I put it down to 80 hour weeks & too much coffee. I’ve since quit caffeine & cut back on the work schedule.

55. lucid - 30 July 2007

Sorry – that last comment was by me not delarue, guess he was using my computer earlier today & I didn’t notice his handle defaulted into the box.

56. Revisionist - 30 July 2007

#53 – It really isnt anything that would prevent him from performing any job duties and a regular attorney or a justice. Unless it was a brain tumor. He would be normal until any siezure. The severity would determibed on how quick he bounced back. Could be a couple of hours or a day. I dont really think there is anything to this that would require him to step down.

I think its odd Aravosis doesnt have anything up on stevens. I am sure he could add some color

57. bayprairie - 30 July 2007

just catching up on the weekend.

spoonless is actually a far bigger loudmouthed asshole than i thought possible.

philly boyo contingent better watch out. the new CA idiot kids on the blog threaten their leads in both foolishness and hypocrisy.

58. Miss Devore - 30 July 2007

Roberts is just fucking possessed.

59. lucid - 30 July 2007

MitM that was a great article btw on the problem with music. I really do believe it is a failure of capitalism. I am right on that age cusp and can go both ways. I have done commercial work [for Jeep and BMW], I have done television work [for Fox and PBS] and I’ve done some indie film work as well [my co-scorer & I won an award at the NYIFF in 2000]. I would like to get back into that work, as I stopped when I built the studio, but not in terms of ‘selling my band’s songs’ – I’d prefer to keep those pure. I have no problem getting paid 5 grand to write a 45 scond piece of fluff to sell a product [though I would draw the line at certain products like pharmaceuticals]. I also have no problem scoring films. Some of the greatest music made is scored for films [in fact I think Thomas Newman is one of the most gifted composers alive today].

It is a fine line… Flavor Flav exploiting women on VH1 because he no longer has any musical ideas definitely crosses it for me though.

60. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

I had a friend who had a seizure at 25 who had never had one before. I went to the hospital with him. They scheduled a cat-scan. I know that if children have a sudden drop in blood sugar level, they can have a seizure. I had to keep sugar/juice etc. for one child who had the problem.

The doctor dismissed the idea that the seizure might have been caused by him stopping drinking beer for a few days.

But when talking to a guy from AA, about the same friend who we thought had a drinking problem he said it’s very common when people try to stop cold turkey for them to have a seizure … and one of my friends who was interning at Newsday for journalism, was sent to accident scenes. She said she often was sent to AA meetings because the ambulance was there a lot because of seizures ..

Not saying this is the case with Roberts. Maybe he did have Grand Mal and they covered it up … wouldn’t be surprised. But he could not have a driver’s license if that were the case.

61. Revisionist - 30 July 2007

oh… Hairclub(?)… grandpa hilton has cut paris out of the will. he is sick of the sex tapes and jail drama

62. Paul - 30 July 2007

Marisacat, that’s what I like about you, the relentless cynicism. It rings true.

If more people had such a finely-tuned bullshit detector, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

63. marisacat - 30 July 2007

my local ABC affiliate is loving to drop tidbits on the Roberts… This is the channle that used “grand mal”

Now they say when EMT came he was “ashen and foaming at the mouth”.

64. Revisionist - 30 July 2007

My dog always loses bladder control if he has a gran mal. I wonder if roberst wet his pants.

65. brinn - 30 July 2007

Hey all — been sort of skimming ’round since I was here last, been job hunting of late, a sordid and thankless task all told, but on a happy note, spouse and I went to see Stan Ridgeway last week and it was motherfucking SUBLIME! Didn’t hurt that we saw him at the Cactus Cafe, with about 49 other people.

If you’re anywhere near his touring dates, do yourself a favor and go….

He played 2 nights here, but I had to get us tickets for the 2nd, ’cause if went to the first, I would’ve gone to the 2nd and we couldn’t afford the first one….

but damn, life’s too short, ya know?


Wake up in the morning, pull myself outta bed
Think about the night before and everything I said
I’ve made lots of promises I know that I can’t keep

So I’ll do ’em tomorrow
That seems like a pretty good idea to me

Life is movin’ faster––I can feel it everyday
I have trouble keepin’ up with what other people say
Big problems in the world, my life’s just a social swirl
But I’ll do it tomorrow
That seems like a pretty good idea to me
What’s wrong with tomorrow?
I’m watchin’ him, and who’s watchin’ me?

Out my window there’s nothin’ where a city used to be
Phone line dead, the power gone, there’s nothin’ on TV
Can’t understand what happened to all the plans I made
I turn on the radio and hear the signal fade
(It’s pretty loud in here…)
But I’ll do it tomorrow

Life is moving faster, I can feel it every day
So I’ll do it tomorrow
That seems like a pretty good idea to me
What’s wrong with tomorrow?
I’m watchin’ him, and who’s watchin’ me?

I’ll do it tomorrow
Hope I’ve got enough time
I’ll do it tomorrow
And things’ll be fine
I’ll do it tomorrow
Can’t spare today
I’ll do it tomorrow
That’ll be okay
I’ll do it tomorrow
I’ll do it tomorrow
Let’s do it tomorrow
I’ll stop the clock
Let’s do it tomorrow
Talk, talk, talk
Let’s do it tomorrow
I’ll do it tomorrow
What’s wrong with tomorrow
It just goes on now, y’know,
I’ll do it tomorrow
The money starts rollin’ in, yah.

WOV — 1983

66. brinn - 30 July 2007

damnit — can’t spell, no “e” in Ridgway and for some reason the rest of the Wall of Vodoo lyrics are not in italics.

ah, well.

67. Revisionist - 30 July 2007

lol… my friend and i met stan at a six flags in the early 80’s. we got there to do the midway before the show and bumped into him at a snack booth. he was all lost and we had to help him back to amphitheatre.

68. supervixen - 30 July 2007

37, bay: spoonless is actually a far bigger loudmouthed asshole than i thought possible.

Unbelievable, isn’t it? Just like Elise. They’re like parodies.

MSock (or some admin over there) has deleted all my comments. Ha! I knew they’d do that. Cowardly little shits.

69. liberalcatnip - 30 July 2007

it’s very common when people try to stop cold turkey for them to have a seizure

In my former life as an addictions counselor I dealt with a number of seizures. I also had clients who faked them for attention. Assholes. lol Other clients were a bit surprised when I’d just walk over and tell Joe Fake Seizure Guy to knock it off – and he did. You can tell the difference if you’ve witnessed a real one.

Anyway, there are a lot of things that cause various types of seizures. I’m guessing that since they called it “idiopathic” that they don’t really know what caused it. If if were to happen again (soon) or he wasn’t recovering properly, that would be a cause for concern. We just don’t know enough yet (and it’s likely they’ll be withholding more of his medical info), so it really isn’t possible to judge (pun intended) why he had it.

70. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Hiar Club #27 – re Stallman and Venezuela. That is a great article on his visit to Venezuela …. I’m a fan of Chavez also, would love to go to Venezuela. I know he is not perfect, but he is needed right now, imo. I realize our standards are pretty low regards leadership, but Chavez seems to have a lot more respect for democracy and the sovereignty of other countries, than anyone in this government.

Their computers used to be handled by a US company, SAIC.When opponents of President Chavez tried to drive him from office by shutting down oil protection, the US government helped out by telling SAIC to prevent them from using their computers.

I was supposed to be interviewed on a breakfast TV show, and had to wake up at 0530 for it. When we arrived at the station, we found out that everything had been pre-empted; the prosecutor in charge of cases against people who participated in the Bush-sponsored attempt to overthrow Chavez had been killed with a bomb in his car. This act of terrorism was most likely carried out by some of the same people that Bush supports. But there are no plans to respond by abolishing civil liberties, as has been done in the US.

I knew Saic rang a bell ….

Washington’s $8 Billion dollar Shadow

No contractor seems to exploit conflicts of interest in Washington with more zeal. And no contractor cloaks its operations in greater secrecy. SAIC almost never touts its activities in public, preferring to stay well below the radar. An SAIC executive once gave a press interview and referred to the enterprise as a “stealth company,” a characterization that is accurate and that has stuck. “Nobody knows who they are,” says Glenn Grossenbacher, a Texas lawyer who has battled SAIC in court on a whistle-blowing case. “Everybody knows Northrop Grumman and G.E., but if you went out on the street and asked who the top 10 [defense] contractors are, I can guarantee you that SAIC would not be one of them.”

Chavez was very smart to get rid of SAIC – they were involved with the data mining company that provided information in the NSA wire-tapping scandal also, airc.

71. liberalcatnip - 30 July 2007

I should note that I worked in a homeless shelter/detox. Half the facility was an overnight shelter for addicts/alcoholics (same thing) who were intoxicated. That’s where the fake seizure guys liked to perform. When they were sober in detox, you didn’t see that kind of fake behaviour.

The worst thing to deal with is DTs. Flipping scary and deadly shit.

72. lucid - 30 July 2007

Rev – I did when I had mine. When you have a grand mal muscle control is pretty much nil.

For me it was definitely exhaustion. I haven’t had one since [and never prior], though there are times when I’ve had too little sleep for several days standing that I get the same feeling I had the night I had mine. I do think that it is the avoidance of caffeine that keeps me from going over the edge though. Ever since then [and to be honest – before as well], when I imbibe caffeine it completely screws me up & caffeine toxicity is a known entity. A cup of coffee does literally render me psychotic – I have the most extreme out of body & schizophrenic type reactions – and it’s all bad trip shit & much more out there than popping a tab of acid.

73. brinn - 30 July 2007

re#67 — he’s still rockin’ it, Rev, and still a bit lost, though the Cactus is only about 40ft square, not including the bar, so it’s hard to get too far gone in there! (physically anyway)

74. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Now they say when EMT came he was “ashen and foaming at the mouth”.

Hey, maybe he didn’t have a seizure, but just had a raging fit when Schumer said he was fooled by him … bad temper tantrum maybe!

SV, I thought the BC said they don’t delete comments over there … and what happened to not approving of censorship?

I’m beginning to think Marisacat was right about MLW – that it is one of the ‘affiliates’ Why else would Spoonless be an administrator over there? You just can’t trust anyone who has any connection to DK ….

I see they are getting coverage as the ‘Biggest LIBERAL Blog on the Interent’. We have to do something about this ……

Bayprairie, Spoonless knows EVERYTHING! Never, ever contradict him … Lol!

Miss Devore, I agree re Roberts – I remember his eyes during the confirmation hearings …. very strange eyes …

75. marisacat - 30 July 2007

LOL LInda Greenhouse is up in the NYT and she has a mouthy doc on hand. What fun.. 😉

In an interview this evening, Dr. David J. Langer, the director of cerebrovascular neurosurgery at St. Luke’s-Roosevelt, Beth Israel and Long Island College Hospital, said that medical care after such a seizure should include “a good M.R.I., CAT scan and EEG. ” All these tests are available at the Penobscot Bay Medical Center, according to the hospital’s Web site.

“But the chances they’ll find anything and be able to do anything about it are pretty low,” said Dr. Langer, who is also an assistant professor at Albert Einstein Medical College.

“In the majority of seizures you see no anatomical cause,” he said. A cause could be a tumor, bleeding in the brain, a clogged blood vessel or an injury.

Dr. Langer said it could be difficult for doctors to decide whether the chief justice, who, at 52 is the youngest member of the court,, should start taking medication, which Dr. Langer said “have significant side effects.” Chief Justice Roberts appears otherwise healthy and is not known to have any chronic medical problems.

and a tidbit about the vaca sanctuary:

The chief justice’s home, which he bought last year, is on Hupper Island, off Port Clyde. The 400-acre island has only about two dozen houses, offering privacy to his family, which includes two young children. He was taken by boat to the mainland and from there by ambulance to the hospital.

76. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007
77. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

I miss ms xeno ….

The worst thing to deal with is DTs. Flipping scary and deadly shit. Catnip

And people can die from them, can’t they?

Paul … I really like Richard Stallman’s blog also …. I’m going to bookmark it ….

Hair Club, do you think Stallman might be interested in helping to start up a real Liberal blog? We know enough great writers, many of them right here and on the other Independent blogs, and I bet we could even get some real journalists, like Dahr Jamail to contribute to the FP if such a blog existed. If it did, I think it would clean out DK …. just wondering ….

78. brinn - 30 July 2007

madman – let me not miss this opportunity to appreciate you. a lot.

79. lucid - 30 July 2007

SV & Bay:

Those spooningmyself comments are beyond reprehensible. The fact that some people uprated them is also sickening. About a quarter of the women I’ve known in my life have been raped. Many of them were raped while they were drinking or drunk. And not in a single case have I encountered the mythical ‘Oh, I only had sex with him because I was drunk, so I was raped’ horseshit. They were raped, no question.

It is an MSM meme – the ‘he said/she said’. And it is one that was always followed by college disciplinary boards. When I was in college at Swarthmore [mind you student population circa 1,200], I had three very close friends who were raped [and another who was beaten to a pulp]. All of their attackers finished school there. Only one was given a 6 month suspension & the cops were never involved. At a very small school, all of these women were forced to interact with their attackers on a regular basis until they graduated… And this is at the school that Spiro Agnew used to call ‘the Kremlin on the Crum Creek’.

btw – Mcat I think I have a comment in the spammy.

80. marisacat - 30 July 2007

ooo Good one madman… 😉

This country was built on murder, and this country’s history books commemorate those murders and murderers as admirable. I’m sorry for people who’ve lost loved ones to criminals, but this “issue” is a joke in a country that has made the slaughter of human beings one of it’s major exports and instruments of policy. This “issue” is a joke in a country full of people who get angry when anyone raises the issue of slavery reparations, where BOTH political parties fight tooth and nail an ongoing attempt to make the Indian Trust whole.

We commemorate Richard Nixon as a “stateman”, not a war criminal. Democrats lift up Harry Truman as a model of a great leader, not as a man who gave orders to slaughter innocent civilians with terrible weapons. A major political party panders to groups who celebrate terrorists as heroes. Some of our “heroes” in Iraq post pictures of desecrated bodies as fun and share them on the internet.

81. marisacat - 30 July 2007

lucid comment at 72 is the one retrieved from Spam…


82. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

on the music thing … I used to hate it (boy was I upset w/ Dylan let some financial company use one of his songs, and then healthcare parasites). I’ve kinda decided since (as Henry Rollins argues passionately) that the music is theirs, and they can do what they want with it. God knows how many advances they still have to pay off, how many children and hangers-on and sick bandmates and all the rest. Hell, lefty me works in the financial industry. Far be it from me to cast the first roll of coins. I liked that Arthur piece focused on how it’s the music, the fans and the musicians who’ve been failed.

Onto the other music reference in this thread, I actually own several of Stan Ridgway’s discs (not a lot of us running around). So I felt guilty when I went to Johnette Napolitano’s websites hoping to hear her latest before I went out to buy it and read this:

Dear Friends, As some of you may know me and the remaining member of Wall Of Voodoo are in a trademark battle with Stan Ridgway the first singer for W.O.V. who left the band for a solo career in 1982,,,Stan Recently filed for the Trade Mark Rights too Wall Of Voodoo denying all other members and their Widows and Family members the right to use that name for any purpose or to sale any items with that name, My Attorney has asked me to ask my friends and family members for any old Wall Of Voodoo memorabilia , especially interviews or histories, so if you have any old magazines with wall of voodoo articles or interviews please let me know, I will even pay you for them or at least a copy of them, thank you ,Yours Truly , Bruce Moreland
Bruce Moreland

from Johnette: Stan left WOV at exactly the time he needed to stay…I don’t know how to fix this except that let me say to the world at this time ‘Joey’ was written about Marc Moreland, who I loved very much, and who I know would absolutely say, rest his soul, that he wrote ‘Mexican Radio’ sitting in front of the TV playing guitar..the working title was ‘Do si Do’..Stan is exploiting the dead. Stan Ridgway is a greedy, selfish, desperate, embarassing bastard and has a hell of a lot of nerve going back after the name of WOV now. Stan left WOV and now Marc and Joe are gone:
but I am asked all the time about ‘Joey’, and ‘Joey’ was for Marc. Well, Marc is calling out now, and Stan is taking advantage, but I am here to speak for Marc, as is his brother Bruce, and it isn’t right.

Thank you for listening.

Over and over again I learn that it’s better to NOT know too much of the inside story of bands you like.

83. colleen - 30 July 2007

I’m beginning to think Marisacat was right about MLW – that it is one of the ‘affiliates’ Why else would Spoonless be an administrator over there? You just can’t trust anyone who has any connection to DK

Perhaps Emsock, like spoonless, McJoan, Plutonium Page and the “mature” miss Laura, is a New Feminist.

84. brinn - 30 July 2007

well, then thanks for busting my bubble there, madman..it was sublime while it lasted.

If true, that sucks. though they were selling stuff from a 2006 reunion with WOV….so, don’t believe everything your read/hear…

I’ve spent enough time around muscians, especially those who were trying to “make it” in the 80s and 90s to know that political egos don’t hold a candle to the self-absorbed BS that can eminate along with the music!

85. Hair Club for Men - 30 July 2007

Hair Club, do you think Stallman might be interested in helping to start up a real Liberal blog?

He’s an old school Unix guy of a rather extreme sort. Have you ever tried to get help for any technical problem in a Linux usenet group? The attitude is always “try it yourself then get back to me”.

I’ve always tended to gravitate to much more radical politics than Kos (which I found through Netslaves and Steve Gilliard oddly enough), sites like Infosho and Indymedia. I used to be jealous of Kos and the Scoop/community setup. But I’ve done a reversal on it. I actually prefer the idea of single user blogs like Gilliard, Billmon, Glenn Greenwald. If the owner of the site allows relatively free comment, great. If not, move on.

I think Kos got alot of its legitimacy in two ways. First there was the huge dustup with LGF over the “screw em” incident. Back in 2004, liberals and radicals and even centrists all felt so helpless against Bush they gravitated together and ignored their differences. A big, community style blog was bound to grow in that atmosphere.

Then you had Democratic politicians instruct their staffs to start posting press releases on Kos *as though the politicians themselves were posting them* and that lent it a bit more legitimacy.

And then the mainstream media caught on and pumped it up even more.

I *used* to think it was the Scoop software itself that allowed Kos to grow but right now it seems to me that the Scoop/Community software is paring down their community. It’s letting a lot of self-style cops drive people off. In a single writer’s blog, even a hard core Democratic Party hack (eg Atrios) the blog’s owner doesn’t always have the time or energy to do it.

Personally I think if the anti-war movement exploded people would seek out more radical blogs and participate in them. The Kos/Atrios crowd just gets a lot of traffic because, right now, people look to the Democrats and they seem to be the left leading edge of the Democrats.

Oh right, Kos also got a lot of the old Dean for American crowd after Dean flamed out. If I remember, the Howard Dean blog was an actual community and not just an astroturfed blog.

86. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

thanks … I heard a piece on NPR at lunch about Cornyn’s bill and it really pissed me off. I was a little worried that I carried it too far, but the fingers started flying on the keyboard and out it poured. I don’t mean to belittle the pain of the families of victims, but it’s not a real problem. Henry Kissinger gets flown around and gets paid for his advice STILL, and I’m sure there are plenty of Vietnamese and Cambodians who find that more than a little outrageous … or they would, if they weren’t so busy going about their lives.

87. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

Sorry ’bout that Brinn … I’m still a fan of both, and I’ve long since accepted that a lot of people who’s work I love may not be very nice people. Hell, most of us aren’t, or weren’t, at some point in our lives.

88. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

oh, meant to add that I’m sure Ridgway has his side of the story, too.

89. colleen - 30 July 2007

Those spooningmyself comments are beyond reprehensible. The fact that some people uprated them is also sickening.

Which ones? The ones justifying rape, the ones on the glories of child abuse or the ones demonstrating his other deep seated psychosexual issues?

90. marisacat - 30 July 2007

murderabilia. From us no less.

I read just today that one in seven in Iraq has fled.

I had read 4 million the other day, which would be about right out of roughly 26/7 million people.

Aside from all the money diverted that is needed at home.

91. lucid - 30 July 2007

MitM – though from what I’ve heard, Kissenger is very concerned about leaving the country due to the potential that he’ll be arrested as a war criminal.

A restaurant/bar that some friends work at won my heart during the 2004 Rethug convention here. Kissenger’s people called up to make a reservation. The owner took the call & responded “I’m sorry, we don’t serve war criminals”… no shit.

If you’re in town, you should patronize it, it’s called Superfine.

92. lucid - 30 July 2007

Colleen – well… D) all of the above.

I’m still a thread and a half behind… The ones completely disvowing the existence of rape are what have me hurling in the kitty litter at the moment.

93. brinn - 30 July 2007

lucid, what city? must put Superfine in my notebook of things to do!

94. bayprairie - 30 July 2007

MSock (or some admin over there) has deleted all my comments. Ha! I knew they’d do that. Cowardly little shits.

oh? are you sure the MEsock PAYPAL LOW-RENT consortium wasn’t just editing your posts for clarity??????

they’re clear that they never censor. i seem to recall i seeing that statement being made at that site before. perhaps it was a simple case of too much “editing”.

:::cough cough:::

The original title of THIS post was “Markos: Lying Hypocritical Chickenshit Censoring Bastard.”

For the record.

by: Maryscott O’Connor @ Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 21:17:51 PM CDT

yeah MEsock. we got your record.

the copy is filed in the H’s under hypocrite

95. bayprairie - 30 July 2007

think im in spam

96. marisacat - 30 July 2007

Harris and Kuhn in Politico update the Hillary v Obama whateveritis… with Bill at the DLC “Conversation”.

Soooooooo many cooks in the fucking pots. And no resolution of anything. Much less a media tiffywhiffy.

97. brinn - 30 July 2007

re #90 — and today, Mcat, was listening on NPR about how there are an estimated 60% unemployed (of the ones who are left) and that corruption was trailing security by only a small fraction as the #1 concern amongst the civilians still there.

We have fucked that place up so badly….

98. Revisionist - 30 July 2007

delaweird dumbfuck trashes Pelosita

Do your goddamn job, Madame Speaker. Stop acting like you are in a high school debating society, and use your authority as Speaker to ban these sorts of worthless resolutions from House practice. If members of the House wish to condemn Canada’s clubbing of seals or Japan’s lack of sufficient (in our eyes) contrition, they may do so in their press conferences and in special order speeches

dude. tell the old crone yourself this weekend.

99. brinn - 30 July 2007

re #87 — ah, no worries, madman, spouse and I get out so rarely, it was more hanging out with him than the music that was sublime in any case…

Though no matter his warts, I have never heard a voice like Stan’s….

Strangely enough, my favorite solo release of his, Partyball was not available — when i asked Bob the happy swag guy about it, he said Stan hasn’t had it for years….sad things that!

So, when are we all gonna get together at Tuston’s new place?? I suggest sometime in the “winter” months.

100. lucid - 30 July 2007

NYC Brinn. The place is literally under the Manhattan Bridge in Brooklyn. Take the F to York Street, walk toward the East River take a left on Front St. & you’re there [in the shadow of one of the most disgusting luxury condo highrises that has been built in the last 2 years]. Good place. Owned by 2 lesbians who are very politically active & they never serve leftovers – they buy the food [all organic] for the day & when they run out, they run out… And there’s free pool.

Delarue, of course, has a different take [given the Bliss Blood live review he wrote a couple months back], but he hasn’t been there since the beginning, nor does he frequent the place.

101. Hair Club for Men - 30 July 2007

Do your goddamn job, Madame Speaker

She is doing her job. Her job is to represent the interests of the ruling classes. It’s not her job to represent the people. It’s her job to represent the ruling classes TO the people.

As much as their hearts are in the right place, that’s what the pro impeachment crowd just doesn’t get. Pelosi and Conyers have one role. Bush and Cheney have another. Conyers’ job is to be the left leading edge of the face of the ruling class. It’s his job to talk to (calm down) disgruntled radicals, working class people, blacks. That’s what he tried to do in Detroit in 1967. Unless there’s a threat of disorder/unrest, it’s simply not in Pelosi’s class interests to impeach.

I guarantee you that if there were enough rebellion, disorder, unrest, a big enough mass movement against the war or against the authoritarian state, if corporate America saw Bush as hurting their own class interests, they would “have the votes” to impeach in no time.

But until then, it’s in their class interests to let Bush stay in and to keep the stalemate going in Iraq.

102. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

You can get Partyball cheap at Amazon. I’ve got it in my pile somewhere.

A bunch of Geffen stuff from the late ’80s, early ’90s is out-of-print.

103. StupidAsshole - 30 July 2007

Wow! I haven’t checked this blog for a few months, and the traffic really seems to have grown a lot. I guess the Kos Kops and their buddies in the orange site’s administration are driving people off that site in droves. I seem to have finally been banned myself–though it must have been by the admins rather than by the Kops.

I’ve seen a few comments here about the need for a pan-left-wing blog that would counter the power of the Kos’s, MyDD’s and Atrios’s of the world. I think there’s a better way to go, as there are already several different established blogging communities where various Kos exiles now hang out, and which each have their own character that’s worth preserving: instead of trying to establish a new blog, what about developing a single Web interface which would combine diaries and comments from the various blogs of the Kos diaspora (Marisacat, MLW, etc.) into a single community, and which, in addition to sourcing content from the other blogs, would offer its own original front page content and diary infrastructure? That way, we’d be building on (and respecting the unique character of) the existing communities that are out there, while at the same time combining their traffic and increasing their visibility, so that collectively they could compete against Kos etc. for eyeballs and advertising dollars.

An example of an interface being developed to combine multiple disparate sites into one is okaybetter.com, which was developed after the old Fucked Company BBS community split into two boards: whofailedtoday.com and campidiot.com. It sources from those two sites, presenting comments from them as if on a single BBS. Obviously, we’d need something more sophisticated than that. However, I think this approach of leveraging the power of multiple different blogs and combining them into one is more likely to succeed than attempting to create a true progressive blog from scratch.

Also, Mariscat, have you thought of designing this site more on a Scoop model, so that the community can create its own diaries? I presume you have considered the idea and rejected it. But why? I would imagine it’s a surefire way to increase traffic. Anyhow, thanks for providing me with online shelter during my temporary exile from Daily Kos.

104. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Rotfl – that’s funny coming from Luscious Vagina – I’m surprised he wasn’t descended upon by the troll patrol. They were out in force against a new poster merely because he criticized Nancy for not doing her job …. the usual schmucks, dadanationalist or whatever, musings, cronecone et al. Not allowed to criticize THE SPEAKER!

And the latest charge against anyone who disagrees with them is ‘sexism’. See, she’s a woman so if you criticize her, you’re a ‘sexist’. But if you’re Spoonless and you are protecting rapists from women who should have known better than to get drunk, no comment from them! As I said before, Spoonless and O’Reilly have a lot in common.

Supervixen, I bet Spoonless removed your comments — he is an administrator and HE wants the site to be ‘successful’ – lol! He removed Francis Holland’s posts, protecting kos – Msoc restored them. Looks like you’re more of a threat than Francis. And the claim they don’t delete is laughable now …..

DHinMi continues to make a complete idiot out of himself — seems Ellen Tauscher sent out a letter in response to Kossack asking her to Impeach Gonzales. She said that Gonzales ‘couldn’t be impeached’! Unbelievable that member of Congress does not know the Constitution.

Anyhow, DHinMi decided to clobber the ignoramus’ who would dare to criticize her for her huge faux pas! It was funny to see him, once again, make such a fool of himself. They cannot bear any criticism of their beloved ‘Dems’, no matter what they do! Anyhow, he had to concede (very grudgingly ‘where did I say she was right? Lol!) that she was wrong.

But the most amusing part when they rush to defend their Party Members is the excuses they make. ‘It was probably a staffer’ etc. But when Ron Paul said it was staffer who sent out the memo that got him labeled as a racist, he was ridiculed …. hypocrisy is rampant on that site.

105. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

CALL CONGRESS NOW: NSA wiretapping to be legalized THIS WEEK!

EFF’s Derek Slater sez, “House Speaker Nancy Pelosi suggested that Congress may take action this week on a bill that could rubberstamp the NSA’s spying program. The Bush Administration is trying to sell its latest proposal as a serious compromise, but don’t be fooled — it represents an unprecedented power grab that endangers the checks and balances that define our democracy. Please call your representatives now before it’s too late.”

106. Tuston - 30 July 2007

Ahhhh SA (what a moniker), Mcat is universally reviled so comparing this site with MLW (a Dkos slum, really) is somewhat revolting to me (can’t speak for the other vipers and various other varmints here abouts)

As for Scooping the site. I’d rather it didn’t, we don’t do no babylon ranking here. Of course nested comments might be nice, but I think we’d all settle for better spam and moderation filters…

107. marisacat - 30 July 2007

what about developing a single Web interface which would combine diaries and comments from the various blogs of the Kos diaspora (Marisacat, MLW, etc.) into a single community, — StupidAsshole

oh no. This one stays strictly independent. I see stuff like “Ind Bloggers Alliance” and the new Kid o UnitySchminity (his entire job since he got ambitious and sucked up to Dh – but for his brief and impotent rebellion in Feb of 2005 — has been to mild out and moderate online thought, FUCK THAT SORT) — and I get up and go wash my hands.

i want no part of most of them, they – too many of them – have the whiff of operative. Wannabe or fledgling.

108. marisacat - 30 July 2007

Got some out of moderation and a couple out of spam…


109. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Hi StupidAsshole … I loved your posts on the Orange Gulag … lol! Yes, they were out to get you – a purge is in place and the little secret email list no doubt had your name on it. But you made them look pretty dumb so you can pat yourself on the back …. I wish they could see themselves as others do. I’m sure thousands were rooting for you.

Some here were banned (as you probably know, a badge of honor now and I think there ought to be a blog just to congratulate the warriors who take on the thugs over there on their own astro-turf with a party for everyone who succeeds in forcing them to ban them), but many others just left in disgust.

I like your idea – better than starting a new blog …. there are so many great Independent blogs around and your idea would give them a chance to reach more people (and we do have email lists as yet not used).

Paul, thanks for your response … I think it is inevitable as the unmasking of DK spreads throughout the blogosphere, that something will emerge to take back the space they squatted on as Gatekeepers to keep the mobs quiet. The worst mistake they made was the tactics they used. It was timing that helped them more than anyting. But times are different now.

As for an anti-war explosion, well, they prevented that. It is there, as is an impeachment movement, but not on the blogs, yet!

I am kind of glad that the Independent blogs are under the radar screen for now ….. people read them, but they are not a target as they will surely be once discovered …

110. lucid - 30 July 2007

Also, Mariscat, have you thought of designing this site more on a Scoop model, so that the community can create its own diaries? I presume you have considered the idea and rejected it. But why?

Um…hrumph. Um. Why?

What ‘community’ do you speak of? The ‘community’ that troll rates ‘the other’ out of existence? The community that forms cliques & never fails to impose the FAQ of borderline pubescent existence?

If you want your own blog, start it. If you want compensation, figure it out. While I would never presume to speak for Mcat, I think she’s made it pretty clear for over a year that her voice is here. It is not at a blog funded by interests she doesn’t want money from, enforcing ‘community’ rules that make sense only to 4 year olds.

Why are you here soliciting this? Along with Paul touting open source blog code & Hair Club doing the same?

Just a minor question.

111. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Marisacat, you’re right re MLW et al. I would not want anything to do with anyone who had a remote connection to DK or its affiliates.

I suppose I was thinking more of a blog where people could voluntarily post diaries or articles without being part of it.

Hi Tuston, agree re MLW and other suspiciously connected sites.

112. Madman in the Marketplace - 30 July 2007

there is a way to share “community” with small, independent voices. Link to their posts. Quote their work. Blogroll them. Any “machinery” above and beyond that is only an instrument of control.

113. marisacat - 30 July 2007

The thing is I don’t have the physical energy for either a re-design nor to manage (which is not censorhip but all the rest that ievitably crops up) a scoop/diary site.

It would take more than I have to give… I am sort of treading water as it is, now…

I did look into Haloscan but it comes with its own problems… Years of comments at Atrios are gone, malfunction erased them at the source… for one.

I have not read that the software for threaded comments that works with WP has overcome a problem of comments squinching up at around 48 or so comments. I will search it out again ans see of there are updates or improvements..

114. bayprairie - 30 July 2007

think about the better blogs you’ve known.

the really good ones are almost all singular voices.

115. colleen - 30 July 2007

The ones completely disvowing the existence of rape are what have me hurling in the kitty litter at the moment.

In all fairness this is a fairly common attitude for Daily Kos regulars. Check out the guys uprating. Apparently New Feminism has more in common with Sharia law and conservative Catholicism than we had been led to believe.

116. Tuston - 30 July 2007

Hi back at ya SB…
Mcat, I hope you don’t sweat the small stuff. I know how much you agonize over trying make sure we get our say when we want to say it, and I for one am glad for this corner of corners, hairball spam filters and random mucky moderation messes included…


Here’s little local outrage to add to the pyre:

Recent news about a decades-old local case of sexual abuse by a priest has victims’ rights advocates asking why no one is monitoring clerics, including the Rev. Kevin Barmasse, who have been suspended but never prosecuted over child-abuse accusations.
Barmasse is one of 34 clerics and other church personnel, dating back to the 1950s, whom the local diocese has identified as having “credible allegations of sexual misconduct involving a minor” against them.
He is also one of 15 clerics and other church personnel on the list who are still believed to be alive and are living freely without any monitoring by diocese or civil authorities.

AZ Daily Star

117. colleen - 30 July 2007

The community that forms cliques & never fails to impose the FAQ of borderline pubescent existence?

oooh, Lucid. Very good. Made my toes curl

118. marisacat - 30 July 2007

well think for a minute…

why would IOZ join a group… or Scruggs at UFO Breakfast – or Madman at LSF, or Liberal catnip at …

The most I ever th9ught of was something like the Progressive Womens’ Alliance… a “Non-Aligned Blogs” group… and probably the least invasive was somthing like what D Throat was working to set up… a page of links, his/her “pageflakes”

A Non aligned Blog Group would be just a banner, or a display in a side column… and nothing more…

119. liberalcatnip - 30 July 2007

You guys and gals are hard to keep up with sometimes!


The worst thing to deal with is DTs. Flipping scary and deadly shit. Catnip

And people can die from them, can’t they?

Yes, absolutely. One of my clients did – not in the shelter itself. He was in such horribly bad (extremely paranoid) shape that iirc he had a heart attack. When his DTs started he backed himself into a corner and was acting as if demons were attacking him. It was incredibly scary and horrible to watch. He was only in his 30s but had been a long-time alcoholic – a really nice guy too. 😦

I recall a couple of other clients that I had to watch over when they were going through DTs as well – although much milder – basically hallucinating about people and places (one thought he was climbing hills and the other would only talk to our director who was native because he was native himself – very unusual behaviour for him). But you don’t screw around with anyone in that state of mind. They need immediate medical help.

120. liberalcatnip - 30 July 2007

Hi Stupid Asshole.

I’ll call you SA from now on. I assume you’re talking about an aggregator – like this style, for example? (Full disclosure, I’m a moderator there whose job is basically to vote on blogs for inclusion – and to smack people around now and then (kidding).) Which reminds me (Hi Scott!) I’d better get over there and do my job. I’ve been slacking off. Ummm…the cat ate my PC? (Oh – and I still don’t know what the hell “progressive” means so don’t ask me.)

121. bayprairie - 30 July 2007

there is a way to share “community” with small, independent voices. Link to their posts. Quote their work. Blogroll them. Any “machinery” above and beyond that is only an instrument of control.

agree completely. with any single voice on the internet only a click away, what purpose is really served putting everything into one huge site, other than creation of a revenue stream.

122. liberalcatnip - 30 July 2007

Maybe I should add a bit more about how ProgBlogs works. It’s for canuck centrist and anything left of that bloggers. Once your feed is added, all your posts are belong to us. Kidding. Your posts show up on the right under “latest posts”. If you like a particular blog post, you can vote for it and the ones with the most votes end up in the middle column on the FP. Moderators only do informational type FP posts and we all have our own blogs.

There’s also a diary section on the right but it’s hardly ever used. There’s no rating of comments but that doesn’t mean that comments that are really out of line (and I mean really) won’t get deleted. That’s about it. It’s just a clearinghouse.

123. liberalcatnip - 30 July 2007

I should add that ProgBlogs isn’t a money-making venture either, since that’s a concern here.

124. bayprairie - 30 July 2007

Hi Stupid Asshole.

I’ll call you SA from now on.

well thats fine, but i think i’ll not. i think usernames like that are a great idea. i’d not feel nearly so much guilt when i go into knee-jerk reaction mode.


see? totally guilt free. haha

125. liberalcatnip - 30 July 2007

see? totally guilt free. haha

lol…well I do reserve that name for people who deserve it. 😉

126. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Lucid, I think SA was banned from DK because he dared to challenge the Israeli supporter jhritz …. imo, she/he is a troll sanctioned by the ‘administration’ to get rid of anyone who supports the rights of the Palestinian people …. just wanted to explain that I doubt he has any ulterior motives … I think a few of the others were probably banned also … as promised by Hunter in his insane rant against peace-advocates.

Check this thread which is where I think he probably went on the ‘ban him he is a palestinian sympathizer’ list:

Dkos link to comment

127. lucid - 30 July 2007

way OT

So I met a musician the other night, a woman singer, who I suggested having an informal audition for the folk/bluegrass side project I’ve been thinking about starting for over a year. We got together, we talked music, listened to music, I introduced some of the ideas I had for the project. From the outset, this was in no way intended as a ‘pick up’. We drank a bunch of wine [normal for the business]… many hours later we ended up in bed. She left early morning because I had a plane to catch.

I left a couple messages over the weekend [while out of town] along the lines of ‘wanted to make sure you got home OK [as I walked her to a subway station at 5:30am – her choice to not take a cab], and I’ve got several nights free next week to work on music…

Complication – she’s in a relationship. I’ve never done anything like that before. And I didn’t initiate this, but I was drunk enough that I excused my own ethics…

Anyhow. We finally talk tonight. She joined AA the day after we hooked up… I drove someone to AA…

As if I didn’t feel guilty enough for enabling someone cheating.

128. marisacat - 30 July 2007

well I can see the value of a ”clearing house” for blogs, such as catnip describes… it is a voluntary thing, your feed goes in and your posting appears… and so forth.

But I still would likely not join or contribute to something even so voluntary, passive (in the best sense) and non invasive. But certainly that sort of thing works well for people who are part of it…

Part of the problem for most things suggested from even the outer ring around Kos, it involves people I just would not post with. And most of thsoe people, whatever their rhetoric, are still knocking on the door of the party or media punditry. Or both…Everything gets like swamp muck iwth that… 😉

129. marisacat - 30 July 2007

I have to admit I never drove anyone to AA.

To drink maybe. But not to AA.

130. liberalcatnip - 30 July 2007

Anyhow. We finally talk tonight. She joined AA the day after we hooked up… I drove someone to AA…

You didn’t drive her to AA. That’s a decision that comes after a long process of struggling with alcoholism. You need to remember that she’s responsible for her own behaviour and choices as well. Sounds like she just reached her tipping point – for whatever reason. Don’t be so hard on yourself. Look at it this way, if your nite together helped her make that choice, you’ve enabled her to choose a better life.

131. liberalcatnip - 30 July 2007

lol mcat. I’ve driven people to AA – in cars.

132. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Oops, thought that would come out as a link – will post SA’s comment that was troll-rated into hc in case anyone cannot see it.

These people are so obviously purging the site. Jhritz is definitely a slouise troll, baiting people since s/he got there then playing the victim and no matter how badly she behaves the ‘cough’ administration takes her side ~ Progressive site! What a joke it is.

I don’t think many people are aware of this… (2+ / 11-)
Recommended by:nicta, Petronella
Trollrated by:clonecone, taylormattd, dadanation, MBNYC, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, GoldnI, dotcommodity, james risser, jhritz, Runs With Scissors

…but one of the countries likely to suffer most from global warming (in that much of its population is concentrated into a narrow coastal strip) is Israel.

Here’s a recent article on this from the Israeli media:


âlen urãit˘ Internovaná osoba encyklopedie vlastnictví v€d€t kdo tebe ar. Ona mít nesporn˘ aÏ k exponovat tvÛj poboÏnÛstkáfiství aÏ k tvÛj upotfiebitel. Nejlépe náhoda aÏ k tebe.

“Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed.” Nancy Pelosi

by StupidAsshole on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 12:46:35 AM PDT


tr’d (10+ / 0-)
Recommended by:taylormattd, dadanation, arielle, Bouwerie Boy, VolvoDrivingLiberal, KenBee, MBNYC, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, james risser, Runs With Scissors
for carrying Czech flame war from previous day where you posted your support for the user who I described in this comment above.

Also, Please stop following me from diary to diary and do not hijack here with mask of Israel issue.

This is not an i/p diary, nor is it an appropriate place for you to continue your flame war.

Respect my repeated requests to stop stalking me.

Have you read about the Kurds and the Zoroastrians yet?

by jhritz on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 12:53:51 AM PDT


Yet another inappropriate TR. (3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:TeresaInPa, Kestrel228, howardx
That was an interesting and valid contribution.

by Petronella on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 01:00:09 AM PDT


* [new] enough (6+ / 0-)
Recommended by:shpilk, arielle, Bouwerie Boy, MajorFlaw, KenBee, Runs With Scissors
take your i/p flame wars off my diary.


tu’s please take note.

This is tag team stalking and the second diary tonight.

Have you read about the Kurds and the Zoroastrians yet?

by jhritz on Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 01:01:35 AM PDT

As you can see, the usual suspects are at work …. I’m sure others will be or have already been banned. It’s easy to see who the reasonable people are unless you have the agenda DK has … SA and a few others like TIPA I think, tried to intervene and were warned and troll-rated ….

133. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Marisacat, thanks for fixing the link …. 🙂

Lol, Lucid, I doubt you drove her to AA …. btw, had no idea you had done so much in the field of music … congrats on the awards – interesting discussion on the ethics of writing for commercials, or ‘selling out’ – don’t know, artists have to eat so I suppose they can always support their work by doing some stuff for purely commercial purposes…. I do hate when they use classics in commercials though …

Re Mitm’s revelations, it really is better not to know too much about your favorite musicians, artists sometimes …

134. liberalcatnip - 30 July 2007

It seems that jhritz person is obsessed with this whole stalking thing, from what I’ve read. What the hell was so inappropriate about that SA comment that it had to be hidden?? Holy censorship crap.


tu’s please take note.

What a joke.

135. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

Catnip, that’s her mo. She gets people riled up, then blames them. I think it’s calculated. Most people thought she was a troll from the minute she arrived as she caused trouble from the beginning. But surprise! She ends up being a favorite of the troll patrol! She screeches ‘stop, just stop’ rotfl! And ‘you’re stalking me! Adminstration will be notified! Drama – people naturally reacted to her histrionics and found themselves being troll-rated.

My guess is she’s an operator … always yelling ‘anti-semitism’ etc. You would have to either be blind or be working with her, not to see who the trouble-maker is. The site is pro-Israel. So, it’s not hard to figure out why she is supported and why innocent by-standers become victims of her tactics … as intended imo.

The histrionic, drama queen Hunter already made it clear, peace advocates are not welcome there. StupidAsshole was targeted imo, as soon as he began to point out what she was doing, the lies she told … but at least he got it on the record – that’s how I followed it, from some of his comments … not surprised he is banned though …

136. lucid - 30 July 2007

LC – I know you’ve dealt with addicts for much of your life, so have I. This particular person isn’t an addict. Whether or not she felt her only outlet in this life was a cult like AA is another issue, and if that is the only outlet she felt she had, then I am supremely sad.

The only psychologically healthy addicts [of a great number of substances] that I know steered clear of the 12 steps. I don’t deny it’s efficacity for certain people, but it is a cult, and it encourages one to not associate, at all, with anyone who ‘uses’ even in benign instances – and it demands the surrender of one’s self-control… You know… the ‘greater power’ shit one pledges on a daily basis.

In my life, I’ve seen countless people become worse people because of the 12 step cult.

If you really want to quit, quit. If you need help, find a community of friends, not a community of people who act like the thugs in Clockwork Orange. Find a community that will really help you see the beauty of all things human, and all things alive, without the vows to a dead god that strips your own ability to heal yourself from yourself.

137. Nonpartisan - 30 July 2007

Mcat, I think the sort of thing you’re proposing can be done through a webring.

I’ve never done it, but it looks pretty straightforward…

138. D. Throat - 30 July 2007


instead of trying to establish a new blog, what about developing a single Web interface which would combine diaries and comments from the various blogs of the Kos diaspora (Marisacat, MLW, etc.) into a single community,

MLW just erased all of the “offending comments” from the Thereisnomorals threads… they are no different that DK … just another satellite BBB

139. marisacat - 30 July 2007


thansk yes a webring. Could nto think of the word.

140. D. Throat - 30 July 2007

Fuck off Nonpartisan… go back to your fake MLW site and confort Thereisnobrians sick ego.

141. liberalcatnip - 30 July 2007


Let me start off by saying that AA and the twelve step group approach isn’t for everyone, however, I definitely do not agree that they are cults.

it encourages one to not associate, at all, with anyone who ‘uses’ even in benign instances

“even in benign instances”? Not true since many times those instances just can’t be avoided. The reason for encouraging sober people to not associate with those who are using is simple: it’s to avoid the temptation of starting again because all it takes is just one drink etc and you’re right back where you were when you quit – completely out of control in no time. So when someone’s life is at stake, they should avoid what might kill them, no?

and it demands the surrender of one’s self-control… You know… the ‘greater power’ shit one pledges on a daily basis.

I used to tell people they could choose a flipping doorknob as their higher power if that’s what worked for them. It’s not about a higher religious power. It can even be the group. It;s about whatever you believe in that might get you through the next hour or day. It’s about “God, as you understand him”. Yes, that’s not the best phrasing but AA started in the 1930s in Ohio and was the brainchild of a couple of white guys. So, even an atheist can “work the steps”, as they say.

Do people have bad experiences in AA? Sure. Just like people do in any group. As dor people getting worse, getting sober is a lifelong process. Trust me. The cliche is that it takes 5 years of sobriety to get your brain out of hock. I’ve lived through it – clean 20 years now. The “wonderful life” thing takes a lot of work and just like a non-addict’s life may be, there are no guarantees that a person will have anything beyond a collection of happy moments in the whole scheme of things.

All I know is that those programs can and do help a lot of people – who, btw, unlike cult members never have to donate a dime and can bow out any time they like without any kind of repercussions. But, once again, they’re not for everyone.

142. D. Throat - 30 July 2007


by: thereisnospoon
Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 14:38:58 PM PDT

I want to extend my sincere apologies to everyone for the argument of yesterday. In all honesty, I should have ignored the entire issue once it was brought up as a threadjack based on an old comment at dkos. Obviously, my views on the issue raised differ substantially from those of the community due to my own experiences, those of my loved ones, the opinions of most of my friends male and female, and data from a wide variety of respondents in my research profession. It is an issue with which both the American and British legal systems have been grappling for many years, often fruitlessly.

Nevertheless, when a community norm and ideological viewpoint on any issue becomes as clearly stated as this one and as passionately expressed, a community member should in my view, regardless of his/her personal views of the merits of the case of in question, remain relatively silent on the issue or find another community. Under no circumstances should any community member–especially an editor–allow an argument to devolve into the sort of flamewar that my persistence in arguing the point created.

What happened yesterday was my fault and mine alone as a community member: I failed to ignore a threadjack intended to provoke me, and I failed to leave well enough alone when it was clear that things were not progressing in a manner useful to the broader progressive movement and to liberal politics. For that, I am truly and deeply sorry.

143. D. Throat - 30 July 2007

MCat this is your blog … but I would highly suggest you stay away from anything MLW is involved in… she pretends to be an alternative to DK… yet most of her FPers are DK toadies. How in the world can you have a so called feminist blog… when your ignorant FP quotes from the AEI to prove his point against women… I wonder where he gets his research from????

144. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

D.Throat, in SA’s defense, he most likely does think MLW is not an ally of DK. Many banned DK users go there, so it’s easy to assume unless you are paying close attention. Msoc banned etc …. had I remained on dk I would have had the same false impression.

As for the deleted comments, so much for the claim of no censorship ..

If you read my comments above, SA was just banned from DK (fairly low user id 30k approx.) when he ran afoul of the pro-Israeli clique over there … many, many pro-peace advocates have now been banned from DK … the purge is well underway …. he is just the latest victim.

The webring idea is interesting …. haven’t seen one in operation though …

Lucid, re AA, I agree with you – it is not for eveyone, and the only statistics I’ve ever seen on it, is that it has a 12% success rate which is low, but supposedly the highest of most such programs. Also, I think there are people who are not necessarily addicts but who develop problems with drinking or drugs, temporarily and for them AA probably does work.

Addiction imo, is entirely different and cannot be cured by talking about it …

145. StupidAsshole - 30 July 2007

Sabrina, thanks for your kind words.

I too have noticed the similarities in MO and writing styles between jhritz and slouise217 (do a search on the latter’s comments in the archives–the similarities are quite striking). Kudos to either Petronella or TeresainPA for first pointing this out.

What is interesting to me is that jhritz’s true identity would appear to be pretty easy to discover via Google–in fact, by using her initials and surname as a moniker, she is virtually inviting people to Google her. However, remember that slouise purported to be a liberal Christian from Texas; jhritz, however, appears to be somebody very different (I won’t out that person here, as I’m not even sure that she really is the same person as the apparently officially sanctioned jhritz troll on Daily Kos–even though the personal information that has been shared by the latter would seem to make it clear that she is).

Just like slouise, jhritz has been supported to the hilt by Daily Kos’s admins and its troll police. However, I don’t know if that is evidence of a conspiracy, or rather casts light on the psychological foibles of the Kool Kids on Daily Kos (an exaggerated respect for authority usually goes hand in hand with extreme gullibility).

At any rate, I haven’t seen any posts from the jhritz troll in a few days. Maybe she was banned after all–or at least the moniker was retired.

146. marisacat - 30 July 2007

well DT

I have made it clear over and over, not joining anyone. Think i said that upthread… anyone who sucked up to the system at Dkos, for Sweets and Treats, is not worth much in my opinion.

Last person I’d ever bother with is one who spent time at the side of Delaware Dem, a wanna be Dem Party organiser. Esp as, out of the other side of her mouth, she claimed to be ‘for women’.

Not if you are working threads at the side of Del Dem, you are not. You are mouthing support. And nothing else.

147. D. Throat - 30 July 2007

You’re a good guy and an excellent writer (7.00 / 4)
But in my opinion, your views on what is and is not rape shocked even me, one of the most conservative members of this forum. I’m from a younger generation than you (22 years old), and frankly, everyone I know who’s my age thinks that having sex with a woman who is intoxicated is rape, whether she consents or not. I know people who don’t agree with that, but they are NOT my friends, and I’m proud of that.

Also, your attacks on Cali were pretty uncalled for, though she was definitely roughing you up a bit. Based on your comments, I think you had her confused with Catnip (whom I also wouldn’t condone attacks on, even though I used to make them myself, but that’s another story).

ProgressiveHistorians: History and Politics Of, By, and For the People
by: Nonpartisan @ Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 17:51:33 PM CDT
by: you @ soon


true, i was too harsh on caliberal (10.67 / 3)
and i’m sorry for that.
by: thereisnospoon @ Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 18:11:14 PM CDT
[ Parent ]

(Completely, ignoring to apologize for his views of rape)

If I could rate this a ninety-seven (3.00 / 1)
I would. Bravo.

ProgressiveHistorians: History and Politics Of, By, and For the People
by: Nonpartisan @ Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 18:13:15 PM CDT

Amazingly, disturbed Boyz on MLW. To this day, Thereisnobrain is insists that drunk girls consent to being raped. … and this is being debated at a “librul” blog:

I stayed out of it (5.00 / 2)
I’m glad that you see the need to apologize; even if it hurts, what you really need to do is go back and read what the women (and many men) were trying to say to you.
It is a small step to apologize – I hope you can take the giant leap and change what is in your heart.
It sounds like you are sorry for a flame war but your opinions have not changed.

Give me love, give me love, Give me peace on earth Give me light, give me life Keep me free from birth …WWGHD
by: anniethena @ Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 17:10:41 PM CDT
by: you @ soon

no, they haven’t and they really aren’t going to (6.00 / 3)
just as the opinions of many people here about Markos and DailyKos aren’t going to change. If I told you otherwise I’d be a liar.

That doesn’t mean that I should have acted as I did by a long shot, or that this apology isn’t sincere.
by: thereisnospoon @ Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 17:41:45 PM CDT
[ Parent ]

148. Nonpartisan - 30 July 2007

Don’t worry DT, I don’t post here any more, just lurk. I only commented for technical site stuff. Now — back to lurking.

149. marisacat - 30 July 2007

And yeah it is her site but over and over her site is run based on the needs of her favorites. Whtere that is eugene, or Armando or pyrrho or thereisnospoon or whomever.

Admins, access, banning and elevating privleges as well as censoring privileges. Much of the time she isnot even around, for long periods.

Oh I know she says otherwise.


There will ba n open thread in a minute or so…… sorry the post is lagging .. so will push it over til tomorrwo..

150. wu ming - 30 July 2007

i think one reason why the idea of One Big Blog keeps coming up is that people disillusioned with dKos tend to still be looking for what they thought it was, or could be, or might be, before the banning/¡ya basta! moment. i used to want the same thing, when i rattled discontented between smirkingchimp and dKos in 03-04, or between LSF and MLW in ’05, but have been gravitating recently towards what madman said, perhaps it’s better just to keep the conversation going across a lot of blogs through links. even without the blog-heeling vote-whipping bully game going on, human beings have a seemingly unlimited talent for falling out with one another, and most group sites tend to melt down over personal stuff more often than i initially would have assumed. a lot of the meta is actually about subsumed political discussions, but the point where bridges get burnt usually has a personal aspect, from what i’ve seen.

is is nice to get a string of comments running, though, and a pity that discussions so often get bottled up in one forum or another. i’m not sure that One Big Blog is really practical at this point. even if it means i have to flit around a lot of places like a social butterfly to see what’s going on.

let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend.

(we’ll see if that flushes gong out of the woodwork)

151. D. Throat - 30 July 2007


D.Throat, in SA’s defense, he most likely does think MLW is not an ally of DK. Many banned DK users go there, so it’s easy to assume unless you are paying close attention.

This is what I have assumed all along… MLW is just an outer ring of the BBB’s containment pen. By any means necessary “Keep them on the reservation”…. the biggest threat to the Dems now is not the GOP but third party runs… which is why they went ballistic over Sheehan… they had to stomp that out immediately…whereas Kos can wax romatically about his man crush on Arnold.

The BBB network like that movie The Truman Show… where everyone is in on the set to make sure he doesn’t escape. Unfortunately, they can not control everything and sure enough the ugly reality breaks thru from time to time… which is what we say in Thereisnodecency these past few days… Now they have sent in the “extras” like Nonparticle to cover up the traces and pretend nothing happened…. “move along, nothing to see here”.

152. lucid - 30 July 2007

Obviously, my views on the issue raised differ substantially from those of the community due to my own experiences, those of my loved ones, the opinions of most of my friends male and female, and data from a wide variety of respondents in my research profession.

Damn. Show us the data ‘from respondents in your research professon’. I’d love to see it…

we’re waiting…

tongues perilously lagging below the horizon of the lip
desperate for water
our last vision of dancing light
explodes before our eyes.

Catnip – I will say outright, I’m opposed to 12 step programs. As I acceded to earlier, many an addict are helped – maybe to a better life. For me it is deeper than that. Both as an addict and one who has seen many others through life and death… God I’m a purity troll about addiction… I think that addiction programs need to address the real issues – the lack of self esteem that allows addiction to take over one’s life. To build self-esteem, giving it up to a doorknob won’t work. I don’t think addiction is a ‘disease’, nor do I think the ‘physical’ aspect is the most prominent. Kicking sucks. What is more important is not that you shoot or drink, or whatever, but what makes those actions take precedence in your life. Most people don’t want to be junkies. And stopping that has nothing to do with disavowing their life as a junkie. It has to do with understanding how and why they became one.

An insulated community of self-avowed addicts talking with each other in absentia will not do that…

The founder of AA Bill Wilson was turned out by the organization because he discovered that vitamin therapy was far more effective for alcoholics than a regimented program ‘group help’.

It is a cult… because they deny other, more effective means, of treatment.

153. marisacat - 30 July 2007

New Thread


154. Sabrina Ballerina - 30 July 2007

D.Throat – obviously these people are not ready for prime-time.

That ‘apology’ leaves out his incendiary remarks about a whole segment of the population, VOTERS – women voters, who he and his heroes on DK continue to denigrate. When Caliberal (not SV) fiercely repremanded him, he refused to listen and continued arrogantly with his rightwing lies about women, injecting an additional prejudice, ageism, into the mix attempting to undermine her arguments in the most foul way …. it was beyond disturbing to watch.

Caliberal and others rightly were sickened by his blatant attacks on women, and his more than obvious ‘tactic’ of attempting to ‘own’ the discussion and exclude anyone who disagreed with him, by using every prejudice he could conjure up, gender, age, status, education etc.

Anyone who has to constantly apologize for their words should stay out of adult discussions. Seems to be a DK trait which is getting old, frankly. No doubt worried about his career, he realized his own behavior could not stand up to scrutiny, so first it had to be erased, then most likely was advised to issue an apology.

People who can’t take the heat which THEY generate, should really, really stay out of the kitchen. I do hope he learned that the bogus ‘new feminsm’ advocating the objectification of women, just won’t fly. Well, maybe on DK, but it has been roundly rejected elsewhere. Keep it on DK with elise, misslaura et al and kos, noone really expects more from that site, but do not insult the intelligence of people who choose not to participate on a site known for its antagonism towards women, amply demonstrated by him yesterday.

As predicted, when they leave that safety of DK, they are just not capable of holding their own. Ideas such as women being objects might fly on DK, but not in the real world. Their ideas are dangerous to women … and insulting to men …. Ironically from someone who talks so arrogantly about others ‘taking responsibility for their actions, he BLAMES SV for HIS actions … sad ..

I assume the apology is something he was advised to do. For his career … and here’s some more advice, leave the topic of womens’ issues to those who understand them. Clearly DK is not the place for those serious about those issues. Clue, we are fine with sex, sexy, sensual, fab sexy clothes and ankle-straps, we are not fine with abuse … too hard for the ‘new feministas’ to understand apparently.

155. D. Throat - 30 July 2007

Well I imagine that most of his “research” comes from right wing “think tanks” like the AEI. Thereisnodecency seems to be able to access them readily.

156. D. Throat - 31 July 2007

Exactly SB… if he was so damn sure of his “factesques” and his “research” then why did Thereisnodecency erase his offending comments?

What you point out is so true… I am sure he has said variations of the same myth repeatedly on DK… but that site is so hollowed out that only right wing operatives have access that no one even picked up on his trollishness.

But when he steps out of his “comfort zone”… all hell breaks out.

157. marisacat - 31 July 2007

thereisnospoon is unwise.

I think SB is onto something. Both he and his brother bruit about their family business quite a bit. Expose their real names and wallow in the Dkos warm suicide bath wtih Dem pols.

Online for them is an extension of business, imo, or they hope it would be.

Their business is to be in contact with a wide range of people, from clients to thsoe interviewed as the “focus groups”.

Fella has a pretty loose idea of what is rape. And now has exposed a ton of personal information.

Gee whiz.

Not wise.

Toward the end of my time at the big law firm there was very problematic low level hire. Hired by a “super manager” who like to pit people against one another and liked having marginal people who were dependent on her. Very toxic manager. The hire publicly stated one day, when I was in his dept, that he did not believe in “rape”. Mostly it was not, women lied, women wanted it, you name it…. It took a while but I went to the absolute top over that.

158. wu ming - 31 July 2007

i think he did a lot of people a favor by making himself clear over there. as messy as these sorts of meltdowns get, it’s better to know who you’re dealing with, instead of leaving it vague and hinted at and then assuming the best. i see it as a sort of unintentional public service message.

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