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I thought I could not go on reading… 28 August 2007

Posted by marisacat in Abortion Rights, Culture of Death, DC Politics, Iraq War, Political Blogs, Sex / Reproductive Health, WAR!.

  Baqubah - Mar 2007 

.. then there was this:

In the future, I want my children to grow up with the belief that what I did here was wrong, in a society that doesn’t deem that idea unpatriotic.

Steve Clemons at The Washington Note has come across a soldier blog, Army of Dude, that is still up and running.  Steve posted about the blog on Sunday, so I assume it is around and about…

Here is one entry (I inserted breaks):

Two Companies Clearing Baqubah – Which brings us to the next nominee. Since Baghdad was the showcase of the war and Baqubah was brimming with super IEDs taking our Bradleys and Abrams tanks, it was decided that a unit needed to be sent there to assist the cavalry unit who averaged a death per week.

But how many to send?

Someone, somehow, somewhere decided that two companies of Strykers would be adequate to take down what Al Qaeda had deemed their headquarters in Iraq. What came about this oversight?

Two hours into the first mission, my friend was killed in a massive IED blast that busted the hell out of the squad leader’s face, resulting in traumatic brain injury and facial reconstruction surgery. The vehicle commander tore his ACL from the concussion. Shrapnel being thrown around the inside of the truck caught one dude in the knee as a dude in the back hatch got rattled around, bruising his back as the other in the hatch was thrown completely out the vehicle. He’s been quiet since then, and was sent home soon after. Returning fire from us and the Bradleys killed an untold number of kids unlucky enough to be in the school next to our position.

A wrecker sent out to pick up the destroyed Stryker was the next victim of an IED explosion, killing two men inside. Two more wreckers were sent out, one for the Stryker, one for the now totaled wrecker. As we pulled out that evening, local Iraqis, men, women and children, danced in celebration by the massive crater where the Stryker had been.

At once we realized reinforcements were needed but we didn’t get any for two more months. Many more men were killed because we were stretched to our operational breaking point. But there was always more to do. Whoever made the decision to send less than an infantry battalion should be in jail right now.

I have run out of things to say.  What does one say?  Stop?  It is war made by our government but.. we don’t mean it?  We don’t agree?

We are Germans?   Nazis?   Slavers?

So empty.  In the face of their suffering.

        Baqubah  - Nov 2005

But, there are two comments from The Washington Note:

The Great Iraq Swindle.

Article after article after article. Mountains of evidence of fraud; looting the Treasury, murder. Not one damn thing done about any of it. Rolling Stone! Not the national news. It’s hard to even be shocked any more. I’m just physically sick when I read this stuff. The other day a woman lost her second son in Iraq…..two sons dead.

I guess I’ll have to stop reading it. It’s making me sick.


Who’d have dreamed we would witness what we are witnessing? And, all around us no one does anything. Those who could….are, themselves, on the take. Or, are looking out for #1.

Patriotism dead. Anarchy.


It’s all over, folks. We’ve finally sunk to the depths.

Posted by: Sandy at August 27, 2007 01:39 AM

And this:

I have to wonder what all those thousands of soldiers (and even more mercenaries and “consultants”) are going to do in the years ahead, especially if we finally hit the wall as a country, running out of oil, the stock market plunging, and shortages of food and other supplies occurring as China and Russia yank on our dog collar.

GWB is going to have the largest security detail of any ex-president, and I suspect all those disillusioned, cynical, shell-shocked ex-troops may be part of this.

Posted by: modesto at August 27, 2007 02:28 PM 21st century, sanctioned by the United States Army.

A snip from a third comment:

[G]ive me one good reason this entire government including congress who no longer cares about where the money went shouldn’t be burned to the f****** ground and the soil poisoned so it can never sprout again.

Posted by: Carroll at August 26, 2007 06:08 PM 


moiv has a post up at Talk 2 Action:

Not so in Iraq, ground zero of the War on Terror, where years of war ostensibly waged against the only kind of terror that the Christian right is willing to name is killing both women and their children in record numbers. Tony Perkins bewails the declining birth rate in Europe, but what he calls Europe’s “demographic winter” has settled in upon the women of Iraq with the chill of the grave.

Even four years ago, the UN Family Planning Agency was reporting a dire state of affairs, with the number of Iraqi women dying of pregnancy and childbirth already having tripled since 1990. In 2003, a UNFPA survey reported that 50-70 per cent of all pregnant women in Iraq suffered from anemia, as well as malaria and other illnesses. Barely a few months after the invasion, only 60 per cent of women were receiving any form of prenatal care. And due to a breakdown in the delivery of condoms and other birth control supplies – which Tony Perkins calls “exporting death” – contraceptives were already becoming scarce, a scarcity even then leading to an increase in unsafe abortions.

Now, and altogether predictably, women and children who were already living on the brink have descended into the depths of hell.

According to a new report from Save the Children,

“Iraq’s child mortality rate has increased by a staggering 150 percent since 1990. Some 122,000 Iraqi children died in 2005 before reaching their fifth birthday. More than half of these deaths were among newborn babies in the first month of life.”

At AlterNet, Iraq Slogger paints a horrific picture of the price being paid by Iraqi women and children for what Tony Perkins sees as one more chance to sing Onward, Christian Soldiers.

We’re ruthless. 




1. marisacat - 28 August 2007

Why doesn’t she just call them Rangers and Pioneers?

Be done with it.

2. marisacat - 28 August 2007


I just was looking at the clicks from this blog for yesterday and noticed armyofdude.blogspot.

SORRY! I completely missed the link that someone posted… and landed on it wandering in to TWN during the night…

3. keirdubois - 28 August 2007

That dude reminds me a bit of a friend of mine who commanded a tank there in 2005. He emailed me that I would not believe the amount of old boy insider bullshit going on with KBR, etc. He said the constant emotion was overwhelming fear.

4. JJB - 28 August 2007

Just read Marie’s very fine dKos diary linked to in the previous thread. Excellent work, so good it would have been stolen by the FPers a few years back. No chance of that happening now, with everyone crowing over Gonzo’s departure and Craig’s disgrace, shortly to be followed by their sniping at each other over whose Dem candidate is best and/or most likely to win next year. When that was happening back in ’04, I often said it reminded me of the girls shouting at each other in my parochial school playground back in early 1964:


I’ve no doubt it will be much the same over there shortly, though I certainly won’t be a witness to it this time.

Reading Arthur Silber’s latest piece, also linked to in the last thread, dovetails nicely with something I witnessed on my morning commute this AM. I frequently see Armed Forces personnel on the train, it goes through the various stops (Crystal City/Pentagon City/Pentagon) where our war machine’s bureacracy is located. This particular person was not dressed in combat drag (desert camouflage and combat boots is the preferred office getup for Army and Marine paper pushers these days), but he was unmistakably either current or very recent military, everything about his physical bearing screamed it from his taught muscles to his nearly shaved bullet head. He opened his brown leather satchel and pulled out a book with unlined paper, and I couldn’t help noticing that the pages he had open contained almost nothing but Arab or Persian-style lettering. The one English word I could make out was “Homework,” which sat at the top of one page. I was reading a book myself and wasn’t taking anything more than occasional glances at his, but he had it spread out on top of the satchel which was lying across his lap, so even the slightest glance to my right put it in my field of vision. He read what had been written there without adding anything further to it, I suppose he was reading notes he’d taken and assignments he’d later completed. He stayed on the train past all the usual military stops in Virginia, then got off at McPherson Square, which as it happens is the stop nearest the White House. A number of people are always getting off there, but you hardly ever see any military types among them. I do wonder just who this guy is, and whether that was Arabic or Farsi he was studying, and why.

BTW, my recently completed vacation included a couple of days in Belfast, Portrush, and Derry. This was the first time I’d been to Northern Ireland in 20 years, and it was astonishing to drive around with hardly any visible reminders of the heavy security presence that was in place back then. In fact, the only things that seem to remain are the barbed wire barriers around the police stations, but there are no longer any signs warning you that any attempt to take photographs within certain areas near them could result in your being shot at by snipers. I also drove by what seemed to be a now-abandoned British Army base in either County Antrim or County Derry. It used to be you were almost certain to enounter a roadblock manned by either the Brits or a force armed with lighter weapons (mostly carbines) known as the Ulster Defense Regiment, and even more certain to see at least one Army patrol as you drove along (this was during the day, BTW, I never drove around there at night, that was when the various paramilitaries would do their patrols and roadblocks). At this point, it’s hard to believe that a guerrilla war lasting a quarter of a century had taken place there. Nice to know that even the most intractable problems and seemingly interminable conflicts can come to an end, if the will to terminate them is sufficiently strong, and the conditions are ripe for it.

5. Shadowthief - 28 August 2007

The Iraqi people are invisible to the American people, save as extras in Oil Wars: The Movie.

The American people have turned against the occupation and colonisation of Iraq and Afghanistan, but the government, which allegedly represents and effects the will of the People, has not made one single concrete step towards ending either one.

The occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan have revealed, beyond a doubt, that Marisacat is right: the government of the United States does not represent the will of the People any more than “Gilligan’s Island” represents survival techniques for shipwreck survivors.

Slowly, ever so slowly, the veil parts for all but the slowest-witted of the American people, and they realise that their government has masters, but those masters are not them.

And then what will the People do? They can withhold their vote, or they can organise and demonstrate. However, it took nearly seven years after the massive anti-Vietnam War protests for the military-industrial-congressional complex to at least agree to withdraw the troops from Southeast Asia. 50 million demonstrators could fill the streets of every major American city tomorrow and it would likely not make a difference.

But massive demonstrations against the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan aren’t going to come, because the ruling class have quite cleverly confined the pain and sacrifice of their imperial misadventures to the families of professional soldiers. 95% of the American people are not touched by the wars for oil and military bases, and so they remain concerned but passive.

What we will see will not be mass demonstrations against the colonisation of Iraq and Afghanistan, then, but a slow-motion disintegration of people’s trust in government (already, a vast majority, some 85%-90%, of the American people trust neither Congress nor the White House, neither the Republicans nor the Democrats) and the slow but sure degradation of the US military into a force unready to invade Tijuana for a weekend of binge drinking, let alone secure Iran as another jewel in the imperial crown.

And black Americans, of course, have long since arrived at the conclusion that white Americans are just now coming to. It may seem odd for a 40ish white Brit to quote lyrics to a rap song, but this is the sort of attitude that is now arising among the nation’s young people from the working class, the ones who are being called to sacrifice life and limb for gasoline to fuel the SUVs of “soccer moms”:

What kinda sucka would I have to be
After these years of you harassin and attackin me
To run and join your cavalry
Imagine me all GI Joed up in Afgahnistan somewhere
Prepared to go nuts
You’re clinically crazy if you think you can pay me
A figure that can make me slay these innocent babies
I identify with a slave wishin to break free
He was victimized by the same system that raped me
Look at us poor
Just tryin’ to get our foot in the door
And unfortunately hooked in this war
We were both coerced to get enlisted
But his was with a trigger mine was livin’ conditions
We’re one in the same
But in the name of some freedom
I’m supposed to put one in his brain like something will change
What freedom? I aint ridin for no president
Send the kids to die when we didn�t even elect em

Recruitment of black Americans in both the Army and the Marines is down at least 56%. White Americans are sure to follow. And when there are no more willing footsoldiers for the imperial armies, what then? What will the ruling class do?

6. brinn - 28 August 2007

keir, I’ve heard that too from people who’ve been there, and when fear has any chance at all to abate, even slightly, right there underneath is a rightous and blazing anger….

7. keirdubois - 28 August 2007

brinn, yeah, he mentioned that too. He did me the biggest favor by soliciting questions, something like “there’s so much misinformation in the US about Iraq, so please ask me anything you want to know,” and so I did, and then he group-blasted his answers to everyone in his address book. He’s been very lucky and has been back home for almost 2 years.

8. brinn - 28 August 2007

Mcat — thanks for the link to Alex’s blog, been reading — I hope he and his guys make it out of there.


9. brinn - 28 August 2007

That is so cool of him, keir, I know a lot of vets (from all kinds of wars) have been loath to talk with non-vets about their experiences – hell, a guy I had known for almost my whole life when he got sent to Gulf War 1 as an information officer (1rst Lt.) was totally wrecked by what he had to do over there (i.e., lie,.lie, lie, to hsi troops, to the press, to himself) — it was damned hard for him to talk about it at all. Even to his dad, an Army lifer.

I am between income-earning jobs right now, and have been thinking thinking thinking about ways I could pay my bills by working for and with vets — so much $$ being wated over there, so little of here being spent here for those who came back.

10. msxeno - 28 August 2007

brinn, maybe pop an email to Gold Star Families or a similar group. See if there’s anyone local who has the same sort of idea… ? I wouldn’t be surprised if there was somebody, maybe several.

11. lucid - 28 August 2007

I meant to say last thread – welcome back JJB. Have a good vacation?

12. outofwater - 28 August 2007

When will the Frontpage at DK start publishing the story that Clement’s nomination is not that bad, and he the best we can do?

Within the next few days we’ll be hearing from DP leaders about what a great guy Clement is.

It never ends.

13. JJB - 28 August 2007


Thanks (and thanks to the others saying the same in the last thread), yes, I had a great time. It had rained heavily there all summer, but let up for us, actually had a couple of lovely sunny days, and no worse than clouds and mist the rest of the time.

The MSM is going to have to labor mightily to keep the public’s mind off the ongoing Iraq disaster and the buildup to war with Iran. Fortunately, we have Senator Craig’s legal problems to provide print and screen tabloid fodder, and now Paula Zahn will be attracting a lot of attention as well. Not only did she do the nasty with one of her hubby’s best friends, but it seems she kept a diary – with photos! Apparently, having a triple-digit IQ is not a prerequisite for holding down a multi-million dollar job reading the headlines at CNN.

14. brinn - 28 August 2007

Maybe she and the lady-astronaut could share a [padded] cell!


15. ms_xeno - 28 August 2007

…Apparently, having a triple-digit IQ is not a prerequisite for holding down a multi-million dollar job reading the headlines at CNN…

I’m pretty sure that any IQ at all would be a distinct impediment to that job.

I’m guessing that the Dem-Fem blogs will also devote countless buckets of virtual ink to Zahn, at the expense of discussing whatever faux “feminist” pretense will be used to justify our junket in Iran to Hillary’s “little sisters.” (cough) Oh, unless Laura Bush gets on TV to twitter about it. Then it’s news in BBB/Dem-Fem Land.


Or am I too cynical even for me ?

16. lucid - 28 August 2007

ms_x – it’s not cynacism, it’s a healthy dose of reality.

17. wilfred - 28 August 2007

Variety reports today that Oliver Stone is making “Pinkville” about the Mi Lai massacre. Wish he had done it a few years ago but better late than never.

18. lucid - 28 August 2007

my spelling is going to shite!

19. lucid - 28 August 2007

Wilfred – I don’t suppose he’ll cover Colon Powell’s role in the cover up.

20. marisacat - 28 August 2007

well although it was earlier (a few months ago) billed as a look under the glory… from interviews and extended clips and Glory Glory promos, it looks like the fall Ken Burns The War is going to be a history draped recruitment film.

No more talk in interviews of it being a look under the heroic PR…the interviews and promos are gag worthy.

Think it starts in Sept sometime. Right on cue.

Lindsay Graham is newly back from two weeks as a bona fide soldier in Iraq. Robin Wright today in WaPo…. He loves the surge.

We are so sunk.

21. marisacat - 28 August 2007

Powell is a terrible terrible man. And I toss ALma on the pyre as well. And the son.

Dreadful people.

22. JJB - 28 August 2007


Funny you should mention Laura, according to some news report I saw last night or this morning, she’s been ordered to stay off airplanes due to a pinched nerve, so she won’t be able to accompany hubby on his trip to Australia which is take place soon. No doubt the nerve got strained due to that painful grin she constantly displays, but it won’t prevent her from flying to New Orleans for the big Katrina commemoration they have planned. Why they want to remind everyone of that fiasco is beyond me. And I would imagine the pinched nerve is an excuse to get out of taking a trip with a husband from whom she may be estranged. It’s not like flying on Air Force One is anything like what the average airline passenger goes through.

BTW, I didn’t have to take off my shoes in Dublin for the return flight back to Dulles. I felt so unsafe the whole time as a result! When will those foreigners realize that everything changed on 9/11 and as a result you should have to go through the metal detectors either barefoot or in your socks? I’ll be sending an extremely strong letter to the NY Times and WaPo re this.

23. JJB - 28 August 2007

brinn, no. 14,

OK by me. I do wonder how CNN will cover the story?

24. marisacat - 28 August 2007

It means nothing, but a report on the Iowa forum on health care, with the Dems (but Barack, stayed home to lace his shoes I guess).

Moderated by Chris Matthews and Big Pharma Lance Armstrong.

Hillary says Big Pharma cooperation is key.

It basically became a Save Cancer Forum:

After Monday’s forum, Armstrong said there would be other chances and, addressing the audience, he said: “I would encourage anybody in the room to subtly pressure them to show up and discuss the number one killer in the country.”

Asked about the disagreement between Clinton and Edwards, Armstrong told reporters after the forum he wouldn’t grade the candidates but noted drugs he took for his cancer saved his life. He also appeared to agree with Clinton’s notion of cooperation.

“There has to be some cooperation and some collaboration there,” he said.

Cancer kills 1,500 people a day, according to the Armstrong Foundation. It also has an economic cost of $200 billion a year, Armstrong said.

All the Democrats pledged to make fighting the disease a national priority, with several relating the battles of people they know personally or have met on the campaign trail.

Clinton specifically mentioned Edwards’ wife, Elizabeth, and White House spokesman Tony Snow.

what a scam it all is…

25. JJB - 28 August 2007

So the Dems are on board as being anti-cancer? That’s a gutsy stand, kind of like opposing flag-burning and vowing to crack down on kiddie porn.

In other news, dog bites mail carrier, and there are reports of pre-dawn bird strikes against worm population centers.

26. lucid - 28 August 2007

All the Democrats pledged to make fighting the disease a national priority, with several relating the battles of people they know personally or have met on the campaign trail.

So does tha mean they’ll start regulating the petro-chemical industry in places like cancer alley Louisiana? Or will they clean up the 8 superfund sites in Long Island City that likely contributes to the highest per capita testicular cancer rates in neighboring Greenpoint? Or will they regulate pharmaceutical waste that gets into our water supply & can’t be taken out by conventional cleaning methods?

27. Revisionist - 28 August 2007

Those in the know about the blog family tree —-

I am trying to understand a connection. Mike Rodgers runs BlogActive. He is also behind PageOne Q http://www.pageoneq.com/

I call it the queer Rawstory since it appears to be a sister site. it uses what an identical format.

Do they share more than CSS?

28. ms_xeno - 28 August 2007

Nothing about all the bankruptcies filed by all the cancer survivors & families who can’t pay their fucking bills ? Oh, how surprising.

There really is nothing left of me nowadays but a big boiling puddle of cynicism. And once I really did believe in the Clintons and the Easter Bunny. Sad.

29. ms_xeno - 28 August 2007

And you’re not helping, JJB. Can’t you just whip out a slideshow of all the cool stuff you visited this summer and be done with it ? :p

30. marisacat - 28 August 2007

Right after that (reading that Hillary and Lance are copacetic on Big Pharma, breaking news) I went to the kitchen to make the ‘fully capable of acid etching the spoon’ coffee… kind of a long process with Melitta cones…

The View was on. omigd. It was: should Richard Branson of Virgin Atlantic smoke pot with his kids. MJ is not my drug but the ladies were ALL against it. And oddly no mention of medicinal MJ either (why miss a chance to push cancer?).

I DON”T FUCKING CARE. I don’t care what Branson does with his kids.. So mulling that over (measuring out the ground coffee), the show moves to the commercials.

Second up is a recruitment commercial for the Army.

Right, the wars will not be discussed.

31. marisacat - 28 August 2007

27 — Revisionist…

God I must be remiss, neither site rings a belll with me (I do know RS). But I don’t get out enough…


32. lucid - 28 August 2007

Why do you torture yourself with network television?

And if it’s ‘all about the children’, wouldn’t one think it responsible parenting that someone would like to make sure their kids do what they’re going to do anyways in a safe and monitored environment? No driving around. No sneaking off to some sketchy drug dealer…

33. marisacat - 28 August 2007


I don’t torture myself. Unless living in 21st c USA! USA! Stadium sports war illness lies murder and thievery is torture. TV kind of pales in the big reality.

I watch dribs and drabs of lots of things. I leave the TVs on around the house. ABC was on in the kitchen from Nightline last night. I had thougt Sen Johnson’s interview was last night but it is tonight.

The TV in the kitchen stays on as a night light… and I am up and down all night.

34. lucid - 28 August 2007

Well I guess I do the same… I’m one of those remote guys though & if The View came on I’d probably switch to the Canadian Curling championships or something. 😉

35. marisacat - 28 August 2007

when Rosie was on I got in the habit of catching about 20 or 30 mins of it, about 2 x a week. Oddly enough stuff got said then.

Whether anyone likes her or not, she got some good ones off. Got some things said.

wilfred says their numbers are tanking w/o her.

I think if enough ever got thru, you could sell authenticity as a food stuff.

people are hungry, even if they do not know it.

I put the remote down and sometimes lose it. Not the best run household shall we say.

36. marisacat - 28 August 2007

mercifully it is short. Conyers on Democracy Now!:

AMY GOODMAN: Why would impeachment hearings put the election in jeopardy?

REP. JOHN CONYERS: Well, because unless I’ve got the Constitution in one hand and a calculator in the other, so I’ve got any kind of hearings on removing both the President and the Vice President — or putting it in reverse, remove the Vice President and then the President — within the months remaining, would require 218 votes in the House of Representatives. That’s my calculator giving me this information. And then, in the Senate we need two-thirds to convict. Notwithstanding all of my progressive friends that would love to see me start impeachment hearings, those votes I do not think exist in the House of Representatives or in the US Senate.

I am taking a calculator to the voting booth.

BTW, we may get to vote on the Iraq War in CA in the Feb primary. I cannot be certain, I caught Nunes, the Democratic lead of the CA Assembly, last night on TV… got the impression CA wants to go on the record with a vote (which should ocme in “against”, the big Bay Area counties will pull it off) for international business reasons.

37. cad - 28 August 2007

m.cat, turn off those unwatched tv’s. it’s bad for you.

and hillary is anti-cancer but pro-nuclear strike and “agnostic” on nuclear energy. keerist.

38. lucid - 28 August 2007

and hillary is anti-cancer but pro-nuclear strike and “agnostic” on nuclear energy. keerist.

And I sincerely doubt that concern about Depleted Uranium weapons and leukemia rates among Iraqi children keeps her up at night…

39. Marie - 28 August 2007

Good stuff here today, gang. Thanks all.

Marisa’s “Hill-bucks” link fit nicely with “It’s HER turn” Hill-Shrill at dKos. All about HER. Next it will be JEB’s turn, and on and on. Why don’t they just hand over the deed to the WH to the Clintons and Bushes – every four years American Idol will be pre-empted for one night for America to vote on which one gets to live in it four the next four years. Then those two families can be our “royal family” and do whatever royalty does in the western world which most definitly isn’t govern. Bill and Hill could rescue and adopt a couple of babies from S. Africa and Iraq, and the press would go ga-ga everytime they brought them out a media show.

I know, it wouldn’t make a big difference if Bush-Clin went away, but it might be nice to have someone new to dislike.

40. JJB - 28 August 2007


I’ll be putting every single minute I took with the DVR up on YouTube soon, so you can catch all the excitement. 🙂

Just been reading up on the Craig matter over at Salon.com, and am amazed yet again at just how shameless these characters can be. It seems Craig’s explanation about having tapped his foot against that of the undercover cop’s in the adjacent stall was due to his having to employ a “wide stance” when he sits on a toilet. I’m sure his constituents are relieved to hear that news, and are grateful for him sharing it with them. Of course, I can think of another activity that might be cause for him to employ a wide stance, and while he’s doubtless done so in men’s rooms before, he probably wasn’t sitting, on a toilet or on anything else. “Practicing right angles” would no doubt be his explanation for that activity.

41. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

Idaho Family Values

by kos
Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 08:21:14 AM PDT

They are a parody of themselves.

To me, it’s pretty obvious that every conservative anti-gay extremist is gay. If you’re not gay, you don’t sit around obsessing over gay sex. If you sit around obsessing about gay sex, then you’re gay. It’s that simple.

If they came out of the closet once and for all, they’d be much happier and so would we.

Perhaps that’s why Craig did this sort of self-destructive and dangerous behavior — he hoped to get caught, because then he would no longer need to keep up the charade. And now, after Craig rides off into the sunset, perhaps he’ll find the peace and self-acceptance that every human being deserves. Too bad he had to be a member of the party which reviles that which he truly is.

Military Right

Published on: Monday, January 25, 1993

It’s truly disturbing how much ado has been made over Bill Clinton’s campaign promise to lift the ban on homosexuals from the U.S. military. It’s ironic how it has taken a president who has never served in the military to make a promise that affects the military in such a negative manner.

Those who have served in the military, such as myself, understand the demands and pressures of military life are incompatible with allowing integration with homosexuals. I’m neither socially conservative or prejudiced, and neither is liberal columnist Mike Royko, Gen. Colin Powell, and influential liberal Democrats Sam Nunn and Les Aspin, all who’ve come out against lifting the ban.

Under military circumstances, as much has to be done as possible to focus the unit’s mission and keep disciplinary problems to a minimum. Worrying about whether the known homosexual sleeping next to you is watching as you change your underwear may seem trivial as you read this, but to the soldier who’s short-tempered after three weeks in the field and four hours of daily sleep, it becomes a matter of great importance to his pride and sensibilities. And in any case, there aren’t many people who would change clothes in a group of co-workers if members of the opposite sex were in the same room watching. There is something inherently uncomfortable about it.

Such fears would go a long way in disrupting efficiency and morale in a unit.




42. marisacat - 28 August 2007

cancer, darfur… two big diversions, one from true universal health care/environment/stress/karo syrup in blood veins.. the other from Iraq/katrina/anything.

43. lucid - 28 August 2007

D. Throat. Are you subtely suggesting something? 😉

44. cad - 28 August 2007

has hillary made any statement on gonzo?

probably waitig for carville to feed the answer.

btwm i had to edit a raw transcript of carville talking and you couldn’t understand two words that pinhead was saying. he’s like dr. phil mashed up with mushmouth.

45. marisacat - 28 August 2007

right off the bat, I hardly excerpted the worst Iraq realities that moiv wrote about in hte piece up in the post. There is the death of a new born baby in her piece and the struggle to save the mother. Iraq is not only left bereft due ot professionals fleeing, doctors are being targetted, shot and killed, kidnapped and killed. The mother was at the mercy of people wh tried to help her but killed the baby and damaged her…

We are dying of hypocrisy.

46. marisacat - 28 August 2007


she made a one liner yesterday. Some standard set of words.. Good bye, overdue, etc. I noticed Feinstein also grabbed camera time. Looking very cat/canary.

47. cad - 28 August 2007

yes gonzo actually did what the dems were supposed to.

48. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

More rumblings of the Clinton DLC Crooks

Executive legacies are like presidential legacies writ small. It takes years before they can be judged. But judgment time has arrived for Weill, who, until recently, was hailed as a towering figure in finance. “An American legend . . . a banking visionary,” reads the back cover of the Weill biography Tearing Down the Walls. In a sprawling profile in 2000, the New York Times Magazine played up Weill’s Brooklyn roots: He was “superficially ordinary,” “moderately articulate,” and “lacking in grace.” Yet this man put together “the most impressive money machine in modern times.”

Sure, Weill’s conglomerate makes money. But the stock is right where it was in 2001. The company’s largest shareholder is restless. Citigroup’s valuation has contracted, from a price-to-earnings ratio of 19.7 in early 1999 to about 11.7 today. Even when it reports good quarterly numbers, as it did in July, investors remain wary.

As the size of this tree shows, the group is unwieldy: It’s a consumer bank and a corporate bank, an investment bank and a retail brokerage, a back-­office transaction-services company, a wealth-management firm, and a credit-card purveyor.

While there wasn’t a business model under Weill, there was a culture: Do a deal and move on. Walk up to the line. Sometimes cross it, as Jack Grubman did when the telecom analyst-cum-­investment banker hyped stocks he knew were dogs. Weill elevated corner-office infighting to a science.

Today, Citigroup looks like the last great merger of the 20th century. Weill had successfully lobbied to have the Glass-Steagall Act, passed during the Great Depression to limit the power of individual banks, repealed so that commercial banks, insurers, and investment banks could assemble under one roof. For this?

Now we can judge Weill for what he really was: the roll-up king of Wall Street. As mom-and-pop shops fold, roll-ups encourage efficiency and gain scale. But they don’t require vision.

Weill is scrambling to salvage his legacy as his creation founders. Last year, he published a little-noticed autobiography that was large in font and long on self-justification. His deal mania is displayed on each page, starting with the title: The Real Deal.

Toward the end of the book, when Weill goes out to dinner with Deutsche Bank chairman Josef Ackermann, his thoughts of stepping aside recede. As he recounts, Ackermann “stunned me by proposing a merger,” whereupon Weill “immediately warmed to the idea.” And that plan for retirement? Come again?

A page later, our narrator has a moment of clarity: “I recognized that there would always be ‘just one more deal,’ and that I’d never retire if I gave in to that old ‘urge to merge.’ ” In June, Weill described Citigroup this way: “I don’t think it’s too big at all. . . . It has the ability to avoid problems that may happen in one [region] and not in others.”

Where is the triumphalist of old? “He never talked that way in his life,” says CreditSights analyst David Hendler.

Citigroup’s stagnation doesn’t cast a new light on Weill alone. He belonged to an entire class of C.E.O.’s who had their financial triumphs in the ’80s and ’90s; like Weill, they were lauded for their vision, and most still are. But they were really just cobbling together disparate companies for the purpose of building empires and extracting riches for themselves. Did Sumner Redstone have a true vision? He split his organization, but the performance of the parent company has been lackluster. What about Jack Welch, Mel Karmazin, or Barry Diller? All were fortunate enough to make deals in an era when assets went up. Sure, it’s better to be lucky than good. But luck has run out for Sandy, and it’s running out for these guys too.

When such fading legends step down and leave their jobs to people like Prince, the new leaders function as the rebound boyfriend: a transitional figure, not marriage material. The market soon sours on him.

The solution for Prince, or his successor, is to break up Citigroup. The stock price does not reflect the com­pany’s worth. A hedge fund puts its value at as high as $69 a share, even though the stock traded in the low $50 range as of late July.

49. Marie - 28 August 2007

D Throat – where did you get that letter? Had it been floating around? Sort of a stretch to juxtapose it with the Craig thing but … Must say tht Craig looked and sounded a lot less gay than many other “straight” men in Congress and half the men in the Bush’s WH. Gonzo, Rove and Gates included.l

50. marisacat - 28 August 2007

not D.Throat here… 😉

but Marie

that letter has been around a few weeks. It is from one of the Francis L Holland expose diaries on Kos.

think he has everything assembled at


think I have that url right. He x posted most of them to MLW as well.

51. JJB - 28 August 2007

Another great day on Wall Street, with the Dow losing 280 points.

52. Revisionist - 28 August 2007

The Man at the center of Black Rock City will be rebuilt after an overnight fire which damaged the effigy at the center of the Burning Man event. Rebuilding is expected to take about two days.

you ruined burning man christmas!
At around 3 a.m. during the lunar eclipse, the Burning Man sculpture was set ablaze prematurely by a prank arsonist who showed a callous disregard for burner culture. He has since been hanged by an angry mob of body-modification pygmies, and his remains will be used to feed their herd of goats died fluorescent pink.


Black Rock City officials say there was structural damage to the figure of the Man, but relatively little damage to the art and exhibits at the base of the Man. No injuries were reported.

An arson investigation is underway, and one arrest was made shortly after the fire was set. No charges have been announced, and the name of the suspect is being withheld. There has been no discussion of motive in the episode.

can you commit arson on something built specifiaclly to be BURNED????

53. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 August 2007

Does kos ever remember anything he says, or does he just say what he is told to say?

D. Throat, thanks for providing the links to both of kos’s statements. This part of the statementhe apparently still believes in:

Under military (business) circumstances, as much has to be done as possible to focus the unit’s (blog’s) mission and keep disciplinary problems to a minimum.

And just like he wanted gays out of the military back then (how does he feel about that now?) as a solution, today, he wants liberals off his blog.

I heard Craig’s press conference. He says he’s not gay. But then who cares? Reading Marisacat’s post, you’d think this heart-breaking tragedy would interest someone in the media.

ST, I like those lyrics … and I am glad that blacks are saying ‘no thank you’ to military service.

54. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

Larry Craig: I am not TEH GAYZ.

Notice that he didn’t say he wasn’t bi though!

55. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

If you’re not gay, you don’t sit around obsessing over gay sex. If you sit around obsessing about gay sex, then you’re gay. It’s that simple.

Absolutely hilarious. Buck up there, kos and don’t forget to wear your heavy-duty combat undies.

56. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 August 2007

JJB, thanks for that report on Belfast. It does show that peace is possible. If they could manage it there, it really is possible anywhere.

Glad you had a good vacation, btw …

57. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

Catnip… Kos is right…. only gays would write such anti-gay screed???? Two I can think of right off the bat are Kaine and Sanatorum… I’d be throughly shocked if both of these fundie sanctimonius gay bashers were straight (Kaine wrote gays out of the Virginia constitution)

Oh… the third would be Justice Roberts with his “insta-family”…. just like Craig (seems he married a woman after the gay rumors started and she already had kids, Roberts just adopted two kids)

58. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 August 2007

Lol, Catnip, true he didn’t. What gets you about these people is how stupid they are. He says he decided to plead guilty to a lesser charge in hopes that the story would go away. He’s a Senator! But aside from that, if he’s lying and there are people out there who were involved with him, they will surface eventually. Of course he might be telling the truth.

They all seem to act just for the moment, to buy time. Same thing with Congress and Presidential candidates. Just say what you have to say today, and worry about tomorrow when it comes. The sad thing, they get away with it.

Lol, I hope someone asks Kos about that Catnip.

Also, regarding his CIA statements, how liberal they are etc. he had a very CIA negative post on the FP a few weeks ago. So did he change his mind about the CIA also? I really cannot keep up with this guy’s ever-changing postiions on just about everything. And how his ‘followers’ slam anyone who don’t understand that ‘a person can change their minds’!

59. Marie - 28 August 2007

JJB – …Dow losing 280 points.

Then Mary at TLC made a good call in changing the title of my “Black Mondays” piece to “Black Tuedays” before posting on TLC.

D. Throat and Marisa, is that Kos letter legit? Sounds like him, but with so much parody and so much fake crap on the net, have to be very careful. Wouldn’t want to fall into the Mapes/Rather trap, particularly over a weak point or story.

60. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 August 2007

Two I can think of right off the bat are Kaine and Sanatorum…

D. Throat, don’t forget Foley, who co-sponsored the ‘protect the children from online predators’! legislation! What happened to him anyway?

61. Marie - 28 August 2007

SB – like all too many people kos doesn’t have a strong or integrated psychological/philosophical worldview or orientation. It’s more about discrete units and current fashion. That’s why they can so easily shift on a single issue and not see any inconsistency in it. Not quite as 180 degree overnight shifts like those seen in Romney but not much better. That’s a problem with a techie orientation and where the schools and churches today completely fail.

62. cad - 28 August 2007

the kos mo is to say something stupid off the the top of his shallow head then forget saying it when he contradicts himself a week later.

it’s called sociopathology.

63. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007
64. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

JJB: This is the state of today’s market…. there is a great big hole in the bottom that used to be plugged up by the Depression Era laws that Clinton repealed.

There’s a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza,
There’s a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, a hole.

So fix it dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
So fix it dear Henry, dear Henry, fix it.

With what should I fix it, dear Liza, dear Liza,
With what should I fix it, dear Liza, with what?

With straw, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
With straw, dear Henry, dear Henry, with straw.

But the straw is too long, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The straw is too long, dear Liza, too long.

So cut it dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
So cut it dear Henry, dear Henry, cut it!

With what should I cut it, dear Liza, dear Liza,
With what should I cut it, dear Liza, with what?

Use the hatchet, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Use the hatchet, dear Henry, the hatchet.

But the hatchet’s too dull, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The hatchet’s too dull, dear Liza, too dull.

So, sharpen it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
So sharpen it dear Henry, dear Henry, sharpen it!

With what should I sharpen it, dear Liza, dear Liza,
With what should I sharpen, dear Liza, with what?

Use the stone, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Use the stone, dear Henry, dear Henry, the stone.

But the stone is too dry, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The stone is too dry, dear Liza, too dry.

So wet it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
So wet it dear Henry, dear Henry, wet it.

With what should I wet it, dear Liza, dear Liza,
With what should I wet it, dear Liza, with what?

With water, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
With water, dear Henry, dear Henry, water.

With what should I carry it, dear Liza, dear Liza,
With what should I carry it dear Liza, with what?

Use the bucket dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Use the bucket, dear Henry, dear Henry, the bucket!

There’s a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza,
There’s a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, a hole.

or the new version

There’s a hole in the bucket market, dear Liza, dear Liza,
There’s a hole in the bucket market, dear Liza, a hole.

So fix it dear Henry Ben, dear HenryBen, dear HenryBen,
So fix it dear HenryBen, dear HenryBen, fix it.

With what should I fix it, dear Liza, dear Liza,
With what should I fix it, dear Liza, with what?

With straw interests rates, dear HenryBen, dear HenryBen, dear HenryBen,
With strawinterests rates, dear HenryBen, dear HenryBen, with strawinterests rates.

But the straw interests ratesis too long high, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The strawinterests rates is too longhigh, dear Liza, too longhigh.

So cut it dear HenryBen, dear HenryBen, dear HenryBen,
So cut it dear HenryBen, dear HenryBen, cut it!

65. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

Ah strike outs don’t work

66. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

It is still on his university’s website

67. lucid - 28 August 2007


I think when the holland [I almost want to call him Fracais L as a Purple Rain reference…] piece first came out there was some discussion of that issue, but the letter did appear in the college newspaper of the school Markos attended in a timeline that fits with his. He also mentioned being an editor of that paper in various biographical material that’s around on the net.

It looks pretty legit to me.

68. marisacat - 28 August 2007


the letter is real.

He was editor of the paper while at …. which ever Illinois university it is attached to.

69. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

Looks like Kos had it removed… I have a copy if anyone is interested.

70. lucid - 28 August 2007

Catnip… that thread… [shaking head slowly back and forth]… disturbing on so many levels.

71. marisacat - 28 August 2007

someone here is able to make strike outs work. I keep meaning to ask how. Think it might be HC, or BHHM…

but i forget

72. marisacat - 28 August 2007

There it is…

D. Throat…

use strike and then /strike

inside the little arrows.

They must have added it, as it used not to work.

73. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

Is it just me or…?

sinners (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:

Well, as a Christian, i believe we are ALL sinners. i know some folks think christianity makes you intolerant when in reality it was the opposite for me–once you realize how deeply rooted sin is in everybody, you realize you can’t feel morally superior to anyone else–esp gays, which is why i don’t get the right wing Christian obsession for demonizing them over everyone else when Jesus says we all are sinners before the Lord and in need of grace…

by ihlin on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 01:28:05 PM MDT

I absolutely loathe people who call everybody “sinners”, including those like me who don’t even believe in the concept. So yes, that does make you intolerant, ihlin – intolerant of other peoples’ beliefs.

Yes lucid, that thread is disturbing on so many levels.Typical of dkos though.

74. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

This ihlin person is just such a gem:

btw, AFricans don’t use condoms. hate them. and will beat their wives if they suggest using them.

It must be lonely living under that rock of generalizations.

75. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

And, I should add, ihlin is a self-identified POC.

76. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 August 2007

Kos had the letter removed? Lol! Doesn’t he know you can’t make things disappear on the Internet the way you can on your blog?

I saw the original FLH link to the letter. It looked pretty legitimate.

Cad, I agree there is something wrong with him. Not sure what, but you can get away with changing your party affiliation, people do that. But in his case, it’s just so many things.

Wish I had kept track of his FP posts since January when he basically gave away the Dem strategy by saying that we would get the war ended as soon as a Dem president was in office. When I read that post, I wondered if he was supposed to have said it publicly because at that time, everyone was thrilled hoping that now the war could be ended. It was clear he had no such hopes from that post.

He backed off that statement and went along with the charade of the votes on the supplementals as if he thought the Dems were really working hard to end the war. So maybe someone told him to be more careful. If I had the energy I’d go look for the post to see how many people questioned him at the time. Airc they did.

77. Marie - 28 August 2007

D. Throat – I did pull up Citigroup’s 10-K yesterday. Skimmed it but it’s much too complicated to get much of anything out of it without an indepth study. As nobody is paying me to do it, being the business whore I am, not gonna do it for free. This one is far more complicated than Enron and we know how many ratholes Enron found to stuff the ugly down and away from prying eyes. Enron was at the upper limit of what a decent analyst can handle to make a global assessment of “holds together” or “spooky.” If the latter run, if the former, study further. Almost all who looked at Enron got as far as “holds together” (they weren’t very good analysts) and looked no further.

78. Marie - 28 August 2007

re: kos letter – any guess on when he had it removed? And why hasn’t FLH made noise about the removal. It’s sort of tacky to have a link that goes no where. This one might be fun to watch, or not.

79. supervixen - 28 August 2007

There is some shocking ignorance and bigotry on display in that DKos thread.

What a bunch of frat boyz and conservative weirdos.

80. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

The letter should be in Google’s cache or the wayback machine.

81. Revisionist - 28 August 2007

I never got into this .. to CT IMO… but it was amazing that the letter even existed at all. It dated from 92-93. There was no WWW until 94 and even then the html code was beyond basic. It really wasnt until 95 that you could build a 1/2 decent website. I worked at a REAL paper in that time period and there wasnt any thought given to going into our archive and reformatting pages into html. and if we did a letter to the editor would have been the least of our concerns.

Maybe they have more time on their hands and less content to deal with at an obscure state university rag .

82. marisacat - 28 August 2007

oh let me cut to the chase… ihlin is a fucking creep.

Always working an angle. Dare oppose her and you have opposed all of christianity… and what ever GOC (group of color) she is using that day.

IIRC she is missionary converted Taiwanese. Her parents were the immigrants.. and they fly “home” to vote for whomever is to the right of Atila in Taiwan…

The story anyway.

83. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

Yup. Google cache to the rescue for anyone who wants to grab a screenshot.

84. marisacat - 28 August 2007


wouldn’t it be possible that in recent years, the paper has put arhcives online?

Maybe starting with product from their own editors. Looks (or looked) to be an opinion piece by Kos at the time.

85. Revisionist - 28 August 2007

Mcat… something makes sense now. I was once troll rated for suggesting that the US had no business protecting Taiwan. I thought that was odd even for the K. i bet it was that person

86. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

There was no WWW until 94 and even then the html code was beyond basic.

Wrong. I started surfing sites in ’93.

87. marisacat - 28 August 2007

ihlin is a friggin’ nutter.

88. Revisionist - 28 August 2007

#84… yeah. that has to be the case. the reply letter was also avaiable. it would be a pain though in my opinion since the data would probably be in ready to print form and paginated ie no seperate documents. like i said, college students often have a lot of time on their hands. a good point of research would be to see how far back their archived stuff goes.

89. Revisionist - 28 August 2007

i guess you are right catnip Mosaic came out in 93. but it was a 14.4 world.

90. Marie - 28 August 2007

Marisa is spot on about the ihlin person. She’s the “kinder, gentler” version of Operation Rescue nuts. Which still makes her dangerous to the autonomy and health of women. A M. Malkin wannabe – Americans couldn’t tell the difference between a Filipino and a Taiwanese; so maybe ihlin can substititute for Malkin in abortion debates.

91. marisacat - 28 August 2007

ihlin descends into something near to gibberish. ugh, I used to wwalk away from the computer when she would appear. Like Daniel Pipes or Fouad Ajami, I leave the room – in my own house! – when they appear on TV…

92. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

it was a 14.4 world.

Even worse – it was a 2800 world for me. 🙂

I had more patience back then though.

93. Shadowthief - 28 August 2007


To answer your question about Kos’ letter:

It was published in The Northern Star when he was a freshman at Northern Illinois University (1993). Holland found it via the Northern Star’s online archives–a nice bit of sleuthing, that.

There is also a reply to Moulitsas’ letter:

Published on: Friday, February 5, 1993

I’d like to address this letter to Marcos C. Moulitsas. First, do not assume that former military service people share your views. Rest assured that this one does not. I resent the fact that you assume that just because I’m prior service, I share your opinion.

Second, if a military unit is inefficient and morale is down, that is the entire unit’s fault and not just one soldier’s fault. As military personnel, we are trained to accomplish a mission. If you cannot accomplish that mission because you’re worried about who’s watching you while you change your underwear, it sounds like you don’t have the right mental attitude.




That reply, too, has been tossed down the Memory Hole. The quote is from a thread at MyLeftWing where Holland first cross-posted the information:



Perhaps somebody would care to rescue that reply from Google cache, as well, as it verifies that Moulitsas DID write a letter (otherwise, why would someone have replied to it?).

How extraordinary that an “ordinary” blog owner could get Northern Star to scrub their archives to benefit him politically. Moulitsas appears to have an unusual amount of influence for “just a guy with a blog”.

94. ms_xeno - 28 August 2007

D. Throat is cracking me up today.

Didn’t Michael Franti’s old group have a take off of “Hole In The Bucket ?”

95. marisacat - 28 August 2007


I always accepted the Kos letter, think your comment goes to



96. Shadowthief - 28 August 2007

I think Moulitsas makes thinks look far worse by having the article, and the reply, scrubbed from the archive than by letting it stand and saying, “Hey, I was 22 years old then, I’m 36 now and I changed my mind.”

By the by, I think Moulitsas’ story about interviewing with the CIA for six months is a load of bullshit. Moulitsas knows the CIA would never deny or confirm that he had been an applicant, so why not make up a story to make him appear a man who could have been a spy if he’d accepted the CIA’s offer of employment? Given Moulitsas’ general dimwittedness and inarticulateness, not to mention his loose-cannon persona, I very much doubt he would have passed CIA screening tests. Or, if he did, well, that explains EVERYTHING we need to know about that agency.

Holland and Stu Piddy have also proved that Kos’ “I was hired by the CIA” story has a very confused timeline, which makes me think it’s just one great big fat lie (Kos tells lots of them):

Kos said that he began the interview process in 2001 and it continued for six months, ending with an offer of employment, which he declined.

Kos also says that the CIA asked him about his blog. Kos did not start DailyKos until 2002–but if the interview process began at the very end of 2001, I suppose it could have stretched into 2002.

Kos said that his choices for work at the time the CIA offered employment were to go work for the Howard Dean campaign, which he did in June 2003, or else go to work for the CIA.

Which means that if the interview process lasted six months, and began in 2001, then there’s no way it would have ended in June 2003.

Which could mean one of several things:

1. Kos is lying about interviewing with the CIA (he never did);
2. The interview process lasted longer than six months (unlikely it would last 18 months);
3. Kos interviewed with the CIA beginning in late 2002 or early 2003, nearly a year AFTER he started DailyKos–which means that, as a blog owner, he was considering becoming a CIA agent;
4. Kos got his timeline mixed up because while the interview process lasted six months, he actually went to work for the CIA in 2002 and has remained in their employ since then. I doubt very much this is true, but given the CIA’s history with infiltrating journalism (Operation Mockingbird), I wouldn’t be TOO surprised to learn the CIA had infiltrated blogdom.

#1 seems the most likely and #4 the least. However, I don’t automatically say, “An undercover CIA agent running a blog wouldn’t talk about applying to the CIA”–uh, ever heard of disinformation? It’s actually a pretty good cover story: I interviewed with the CIA but didn’t go to work for them. That way, if information about his interview is ever revealed by a third party, Kos can say, “Hey, I covered that, I’m not a CIA employee…but boy, they sure are a bunch of liberals!”

97. Marie - 28 August 2007

Shadowthief -thanks. Who did kos say he voted for in 1992? If Bill, then it’s interesting that he was taking potshots at him less than a month after his inauguration. I merely groaned and rolled my eyes for a couple of years.

Have thought much about his CIA claim — and at a minimum, his dates don’t work. When I first him tell that story, what stuck out for me was tht the job was in DC and he hates DC. How does one develop a hatred for a place? Since Langley is in VA, not sure why he would have spend any time in DC during his long interview process. Personally, I think he’s full of shit. — if the CIA considered him at all it was only for a lowly staff legal position, not much different from any of those at every federal agency.

98. Shadowthief - 28 August 2007

Sorry, Marisacat. Got a bit confused. I believe we had already discussed the Moulitsas homophobic letter to the editor before this; gives a whole new meaning to Moulitsas’ claim to have served in a “rear echelon” capacity in the US Army, doesn’t it?

99. marisacat - 28 August 2007

hahahahah from the ihlin thread:

Unrelated to Ihlin… (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:SteamPunkX

…I find many of the “old-timers” to be completely batshit. 🙂

Katrina changed everything.

by The Termite on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 11:47:10 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

100. wilfred - 28 August 2007

I will say Tweety just used the phrase ‘gay lifestyle’ and Mark Green shot him down for it, just fabulous. So nice to hear a straight person on these stupid shows that gets it.

101. marisacat - 28 August 2007


oh yes the letter was discussed here when FLH posted about it… absolutely.

102. marisacat - 28 August 2007

probably as Green is a NYer and has run for office, politiking in gay districts and clubs and so forth.

The media is not swift. 😉

103. Shadowthief - 28 August 2007


Moulitsas is also confused about his political affiliation. He says two things that contradict one another:

1. He entered the Army a Republican in 1989, but became a Democrat “almost immediately” after that.

2. He voted for…George HW Bush in 1992! Curious thing for a newly-minted Democrat to do, wouldn’t you say?

I guess “immediately” in the Moulitsas version of reality means “more than three years”.

That reminds me, I need to pay my telephone bill “immediately”–and I don’t mean in 2010.

104. Marie - 28 August 2007

Shadowthief – we were typing #96 & 97 at the same time – but your’s is better because it includes all the details.

The other thing that now strikes me is that after 9/11 there was mass confusion at DOD, DOJ and CIA. More people enlisted in the various services than they could accept. Yet, Kos only says tht he graduated from law school and was looking around for a job — not that 9/11 inspired him to sign up — not like Pat Tillman.

105. marisacat - 28 August 2007

I always tought the CIA story is “soft” and as I mentoned a couple threads ago, Kos was unhinged last summer. I mentioned the Tapper interview and thing ST googled it up… someone did…

I mean really out there. Being on a “differnt plane now” and saying he is too busy to advise the Swedish… ugh forget the party that had been in office for most of 60 years… soem form of left of center democrats.

Kos thought he was some political god. And still does apparently.

106. marisacat - 28 August 2007

well… as I recall it, he says he came out of the army, as a Democrat… voted for GHWB once. think he was born in ’71… ssounds a year too young for ’88. Forget which run he volunteeered for Henry Hyde, he was too young to vote.. 16 or so.

107. Shadowthief - 28 August 2007

Social Democrats have been in power for most of Sweden’s post-WW II history, and probably will be again (I was just in Sweden over the summer and can heartily recommend it to summer travellers).

Marie, good catch on Kos’ motivation for signing up: not patriotism (“I wanted to help my country catch terrorists”) but personal (“I was having trouble paying the rent”).

That’s how Moulitsas judges everything: What will this do for me, Markos Moulitsas? It’s like the Al Franken Decade, only not so very funny. Moulitsas blunders into one difficulty after another because he is, let’s be honest, an ill-tempered mama’s boy, a narcissist, and a dimwit besides. Does that remind us of Presidents we know and despise? 🙂

I should confess that I joined the British Army not out of a sense of patriotism but because I couldn’t get any decent job straight out of university in 1984, not in Thatcher’s Britain, and the Army made me an officer and paid for my graduate studies. But patriotism, or at least a sense of service, did enter into my calculations: I thought, “At least I’ll be defending the nation as my job” (I was young and naive then, to say the least). Never would I have accepted nor even interviewed for a job with MI6 (the UK counterparts of the CIA). I was offered promotion and transfer to intelligence in ’92, but GW1 had made me lose my taste for military life and I resigned my commission rather than continue on with a full-fledged career. I do have a friend who went on to work for MI6 and he is in his 15th year, doing whatever it is those cloak and dagger chaps do.

108. Shadowthief - 28 August 2007

Kos worked on Hyde’s 1988 campaign.

109. Shadowthief - 28 August 2007

Hollywood have already jumped on the Larry Craig gay sex solicitation scandal with a movie: “Feeling Minnesota”. It stars Keanu Reeves. I always knew he and Craig were dead ringers.

110. Marie - 28 August 2007

Another thing — all tht stuff about kos coming from wealthy family is fluff. Not peasant stock but definitely not wealthy. Kids from wealthy families don’t enlist in the Army, not at the grunt level. If he wasn’t interested in college, then his high school grades weren’t too hot and his was a rightwinger anyway. Or he enlisted to get the educational benefits. Jeeze even Gonzo’s story is more impressive.

He’s a guy with a blog that caught a wave. Those of us who never caught one of those waves appreciate the luck involved in that and can’t resent others were at the right place at the right time.

111. wilfred - 28 August 2007

Just wanted to add a bit of info about gay people and bathroom sex. Most aren’t into it at all. If they were then bathrooms in gay bars would be quite lively. They aren’t in the least.

112. ms_xeno - 28 August 2007

…Those of us who never caught one of those waves appreciate the luck involved in that and can’t resent others were at the right place at the right time.

Sure you can, if they cash in their luck for the chance to behave like a soulless, pea-brained goon who carries on as if his luck was actually the hand of God reaching down to pat him on the back.

113. marisacat - 28 August 2007

As to the family… the story he [meaning kos himself] told that I recall is on target for me.

His mother is from the poorer end of the one of the ruling families. She married outside the group, a Greek immigrant.

My closest friend from childhood comes from one of the 14 (then it was 14) ruling families. Her mother married an American. They revolved between both countries.

I also found the so called wedding online diary a couple years ago… and did not get all excited by the hotel. I am sure one part of the family does have extensive or developable land holdings on that coast.

it also made perfect sense that after his father died, his mother returned to Salvador, to her family and now manages a family enterprise.

I mean, some things are quite simple.

114. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 August 2007

Anybody who repeats the “we’re all sinners” is admitting to a deep-seated hatred of humanity. People are imperfect and always in a state of flux … that is our greatest strength, and sometimes a weakness, but it’s not “SIN” and not something to use as a justification for handing over your moral compass to a superstition or dogmatic set of rules.

115. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

From Kos’s own words said his family was threatened and had to pack and leave the country almost overnight. So they returned (Kos is an anchor-baby) to the US with very little.

116. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

BTW has Dr. Tut tut tut Harrison… received a response from Peter Daou????

Yeeah…. I didn’t think he would.

117. Revisionist - 28 August 2007

catnip it took forever to download porn. you had to download 5 files and then combine for one picture. talk about patience

118. marisacat - 28 August 2007

what irritated me about the FLH diaries is not the expose nature… tho Holland is a tedious mix.. but as I posted at the time, bring it on.

WHo cares.

I DO however think that Kos was tapped early on, I suspect he knew SImon Rosenberg, Trippi perhaps Downey jr (ugh might have the name wrong, his father is a past DNC chair, he revolves between silcon valley and youngish pup campaign consultation)

A new media, waht else is new, choke points were developed.

I have gone thru thelsit before, of how many are former R, or like Josh Marshall self described Zionist (gosh how handy) … those who supported the war or were very very mild mannered about it, over and over have been elevated to the paid inhouse magazine blogger spots.

I can spot a trend. Especially an old one. And kos is a big big choke point. MSM refers to him almost exclusively. One reason I post I doubt his humbers have ever mattered… that is blither he spouts, he ahs evovled to the “the liberal left wing” blogger who has told the party off.

Great… Kos the blurry dullard

Armstrong the old tout and necromancer… on and on it goes.

and over and over the threads go back to all the Clintonite Dem orgs.

ugh. All boxed up.

119. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 August 2007

Marie, I think there is some truth to the family history, as Marisacat says. I would doubt it, had kos not posted about his honeymoon being spent in a family owned hotel there. That hotel is the same one in the research by FLH. If you ignore Holland’s own editorializing and just follow the links, there is a lot that connects.

I don’t believe he caught a wave. I’ve looked back in the wayback machine at his blog in 2002. I was online then and if I had come across it, I would have yawned. I’ll try to find his first few posts again. There were better, far better people than kos out there with political blogs and none of them are now millionaires.

I don’t know what the real story is, but, and this is mainly because of the way he runs that blog, the bullies he always backs up, his complete hatred for liberals (very apparent in the Opol diaries), his own nasty personality, but I dismiss nothing I hear about him. He has been a bastard, a bully and always sides with the bullies on his site.

So, if he was someone whose personality contradicted some of the claims made against him, I would be defending him. My problem is, watching his treatment of people, it’s easy to believe that he is not what he seems.

Btw, it’s not because of his apparent success … I wished for a real successful progressive blog and would have been thrilled had it been someone who was not a bully, an oppressor, a narcissist and everything else he has shown himself to be. We don’t need any research for that , he has demonstrated it.

His timelines are off … could be he was just rambling as usual and made a mistake.

But there are far too many things, you could dismiss a few of them but they are piling up. And then there’s his partnership with a known online deceiver, now confirmed.

He also said he would come out strong against Armstrong’s detractors but he hasn’t. And why are people afraid of him if he’s just a guy with a blog?

Now, there’s the scrubbing of the letters. As someone above said, ‘how does a guy with a blog’ have the power to get something like that scrubbed, and the response from the woman who wrote the letter?

I did dismiss a lot, figuring he’s just a jerk. But as I said, things are piling up and he is silent, but obviously not ignoring it.

120. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

over and over the threads go back to all the Clintonite Dem orgs.

Well it came to no surprise that it is Clinton folks running Democracy Alliance… the very same that are funding the blogs. Also no surprise that they are keeping the donors list private… just like the DLC and NDN which are funded by right wingers. Scaif and Koch

121. marisacat - 28 August 2007

the thing is Sabrina, for the early commenters it was not about Kos.

It was not a cult then. It was about the people commenting.

It was about the information, the local takes people posted, the thought process and from some their analysis…

A very big difference.

Billmon was a weekend FPer… Steve Soto of TLC was a FPer (just exited as I arrived) colleen, Marie and JJB preceeded me at the site, also D Throat… Gilliard posted on the war in 2002/3 (what he was best on, imo).

Kos was almost a neutral part of it.

122. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

IIRC all of the main Draft Clark folks were republicans from Arkansas… ie Clintonites… for me anyone who was involved in that were Clinton folks from the beginning. Kos and Armstrong were going to go full on with Clark but then Trippi as Teachout said got them to work for Dean.

123. D. Throat - 28 August 2007

Kos got lucky and got the spillover from the Dean for America blog. Trippi refused to go to scoop so people were using DK as an alternative blog to DFA. As soon as Dean was pushed out the the primaries Kos started the banning and bullying of Dean folks ie anyone progressive. Then the little shits like Bowers and Stoller came into “power” placed by Kos and Armstrong…

Remember Trippi tried to hijack the Dean supporters with “Change for Democracy” he had even hired Bob Bingham

124. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

D Throat,

Here’s the Google cache entry of the response to kos’ letter.

Btw, FLH has posted kos’ entire letter far and wide on the tubes so there’s no chance that it’s going away anytime soon. He also posted it to the WaPo blog in a thread about Hillary. I guess Adam B missed that one. Mind you, it’s not like he can claim defamation since their kos’ own words.

#117. catnip it took forever to download porn. you had to download 5 files and then combine for one picture. talk about patience

rofl…and if you didn’t have scotch tape, you were screwed. 😉

125. Miss Devore - 28 August 2007


Are you outing bingham again? I thought that was DHinMI’s specialty.


126. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

the thing is Sabrina, for the early commenters it was not about Kos.

It was not a cult then.

It was about the people commenting

It sure wasn’t about kos for me. I ended up there after I followed a link from Air America radio’s forum about some political story. Had no idea what a “kos” even was.

127. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

spam cheesecake

128. D. Throat - 28 August 2007


129. D. Throat - 28 August 2007


130. D. Throat - 28 August 2007
131. Miss Devore - 28 August 2007

here’s a wow- Fernando Botero is donating his Abu Ghraib paintings to UC Berkeley:


132. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

poor boober…he tries so hard:

The central charge here is that the Democrats ‘love gays’ unless they are Republicans, and then we think they are some kind of perverts. It’s a false charge. Democrats do not go around calling, for example, the Log Cabin Republicans ‘perverts’.

The reason is simple. Log Cabin Republicans are openly gay. That means they can go to gay bars, be seen in public with a boyfriend, or fill out a dating profile. Closeted gay men cannot do those things without incurring grave risks. One result of this can be that closeted gay men will resort to more clandestine means to meet partners. And then there is a certain kind of closeted gay man. A gay man that publicly abhors homosexuality and votes and campaigns against the ‘homosexual agenda’ is much more likely to combine clandestine means with deep-seated psychological issues and conflicts. Denial and shame compete with strong compulsions. I think this is what leads to bizarre behavior like peeking into stranger’s stalls in public lavatories. I’m not saying that some openly gay men don’t do this, too. But they’re perverts. And Larry Craig is a pervert.

I’ve known straight women that had sex with strangers in public bathrooms. Most people think that’s skeevy. Why did they do it? For a cheap thrill…for the danger…because it was bad…so they’d have a good story to tell. But at least that was consensual. Invading someone’s privacy while they’re trying to use the bathroom is beyond any reasonable range of socially acceptable sexual behavior. Add to this that no one wants to discover sexual activity is taking place in a public restroom when they go in there to use the facilities. It’s gross.

It’s a basic violation of the social contract, and much worse than pissing all over the seats.
Senator Craig’s problem begins with the fact that he was engaging in gross, unacceptable, behavior…invading people’s privacy and subjecting people to sexual behavior in public restrooms. Imagine if he had gone into the ladies’ room and done the same thing?
That’s the stuff of late-night jokes, not a serious defense. Part of Craig’s problem is that he doesn’t just have to admit he’s gay, he has to admit that he’s gross. And that is not an easy thing to do.

I’ll tell you what, though. If Craig does admit that he’s gay and that he’s been gross, it won’t be the Democrats that will be beating him up for it. For the most part, we’ll be forgiving and supportive.

Damn. I just spit my pop all over the place. brb

Oh! Here’s another FP post about Craig by boober.

And looky here, another one before those two!

I get the feeling boober is trying to flesh this all out in his little mind. It’s not quite working.

133. marisacat - 28 August 2007

LOL Angry Arab agrees:

The political courage of Sen. Hillary Clinton.

Without fear, and without any equivocation, Sen. Clinton asserted today in an event in Iowa that if elected president she would declare a “war on cancer.”

That really made news. This clearly sets her apart from all other candidates. As is well-known, most candidates are coming out strongly in support of cancer, while Sen. Obama has made his support for malaria and typhoid a centerpiece of his campaign.

Posted by As’ad at 5:15 PM 23 comments

134. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

This day has been brought to you by the word “gross” and the letter “B”.

135. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007
136. Miss Devore - 28 August 2007

130–excellent find DT!

137. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 August 2007

the thing is Sabrina, for the early commenters it was not about Kos.

It was not a cult then. It was about the people commenting.

It was about the information, the local takes people posted, the thought process and from some their analysis…

A very big difference.

Billmon was a weekend FPer… Steve Soto of TLC was a FPer (just exited as I arrived) colleen, Marie and JJB preceeded me at the site, also D Throat… Gilliard posted on the war in 2002/3 (what he was best on, imo).

Kos was almost a neutral part of it.

I can understand people going to read those bloggers, Marisacat, but when he first started in May 2002, I found his early posts, none of those writers were there.

It was just him, blathering away about numbers, horse race stuff, airc. The link to them is on the Alexa Rankins page, when you are looking up DK. They link to the wayback machine. In the first few I think there are no comments, or just a few. And since the content was so boring, especially then when you had DU (I discovered them in 2004 though) and Alternet and so many good forums. I would not have bothered to read what he was writing, never mind post there.

I wonder how Billmon came to be a FP there. Let me go find the link if I can …. brb

138. lucid - 28 August 2007

I just wish someone would come out in support of bubonic plague. I mean pesky rodents deserve a voice in government as well… or, maybe they already have too much of a voice in government.

139. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 August 2007

Here’s the site, but it only goes back to July of 2002. But I can’t see my self spending more than a few minutes there and then leaving. Maybe they aren’t including some other pages but Kos’ posts didn’t even get a comment half the time.

Dailykos July-Aug 2002

140. liberalcatnip - 28 August 2007

#130. That school teacher bears an uncanny resemblance to READ THE FAQs Elise.

141. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 August 2007

I started reading it for Marisacat, Colleen and Marie for the most part.

Good piece at Orcinus on Nugent threatening two presidential candidates:

Of course, I’ve pointed out previously that this sort of behavior is part of Republicans’ projection strategy: If they accuse liberals loudly enough of a certain kind of behavior, it becomes a permission for them to do so themselves — though of course, liberals are at worst marginally guilty of this behavior, and the conservative immanation of it is exponentially more egregious.

But more than the hypocrisy and mendacity that conservatives are displaying, the most disturbing aspect of this is the toxic nature of Nugent’s rant. Watching it, it’s not hard to see that Nugent doesn’t merely wish he could make Obama and Clinton and Barbara Boxer suck on his machine gun — rather, they are mere figureheads for his animus, stand-ins for liberals generally. It seems he’d be like not merely to make Obama and Clinton eat lead but for entire crowds of their supporters to be sprayed with gunfire as well. And he isn’t merely wishing this for himself — he’s urging his audience to join him.

For mainstream conservatives to openly condone this kind of talk is not just unforgivably irresponsibile, it’s morally reprehensible. But it is, unfortunately, exactly where the conservative movement has been dragging us for the past 15 years — ever since Pat Buchanan’s declaration of a “culture war” back in 1992.

The culmination of this “war” — which is nothing less than a civil war in reality — is behavior on the ground like Ted Nugent’s, manifested in the media by nasty defenses like Sean Hannity’s. And among the conservative punditry, you can find it in such commentary like the recent offering by Mark Noonan at Blogs for Bush, discussing Norman Podhoretz’s new text outlining the next Thirty Years’ War with Islam. Noonan believes it has a counterpart that must be fought at home:

It is noted in the book that while it can be said that 62 million Americans said “yes” to the Bush Doctrine in 2004, 59 million gave it a resounding “no” – and with the results of 2006 in, it has become clear that the ideological struggle at home is central to whether or not America will find within itself the will to see the War Against Islamofascism to victory. And that is where my concept that World War IV in the global context may very well work out to Civil War II in the American context comes in: Mr. Podhoretz had given an excellent description of the forces opposed — internal and external, armed and otherwise — to our victory, but less notice was given to the forces which have yet allowed President Bush to sustain the campaign in Iraq — and, indeed, intensify the effort — in the face of a formidable opposition which can claim a strong political victory against the President in 2006. Those forces are that part of the American people — as well as well-wishers and allies around the world, especially in the Moslem world — which provides sons and daughters to volunteer for the military, and who fight a hard political battle here at home to back the war effort to victory.

Which side has the majority? That has yet to be seen — and that will be fought out in American politics for the next two or three election cycles and will, by extension, determine if we win or lose the war.

Conservatives are increasingly depicting those opposed to the Iraq war — including, it must be noted, many hundreds of thousands of family members of the soldiers who are being sent over to sacrifice life and limb on the altar of George Bush’s catastrophic incompetence — as the “enemy,” as traitors in a global struggle who must be defeated at home by political or any other necessary means. Those means include, evidently, being told by public figures that their leaders deserve to suck on a machine gun.

142. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 August 2007

Lol, Lucid … take a stand on Daily Kos for bubonic plague! Give taylormattd another reason to foam at the mouth, and his buddies dadanation (man, is he rabid) musings et al! If they have nothing to froth over, they won’t live!

143. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 August 2007

Oops, I meant to say, you can go back in the archives to May 2002. I need some sleep, or coffey or something.

I also need new plumbing and a new car … both of which I wish people could live without … they are nothing but trouble. ‘sigh’! Sorry to moan …

Anyway, the rightwing talkshows want Craig to go …. he’s an embarrassment, they say.

He should just say he is gay and then switch parties. He won’t have to change his politics, and he’ll still have his Republican friends, but they won’t have to defend or condemn him in public. Problem solved. Can I get a job as a consultant now? Lol!

I just wish they’d get this upset over dead Iraqis …. or torture.

144. lucid - 28 August 2007

SB – all I’d have to do is suggest that maybe we give infants too many unnecesssary vaccines at too young of an age and they’d construct a gallows for me.

145. Miss Devore - 28 August 2007

nite vipes.

eyelids closing in on me.

146. Madman in the Marketplace - 28 August 2007

Criminal Negligence and Solidarity

Wheech breengs us to Scout’s other, earlier piece from last weekend, wherein we learn that
El Chimperador ees planning a return to the scene of the crime, een an attempt to yet again raise the maximum level of mendacious crrrap that can be shoveled eento the America’s gullet at one time.

Of course, el sociedad de los frotacíonados profesionales een the media will be there as well. They will provide comic relief to the scenes of Chertoff and Bush, striding through the graveyard of a city that they have made of New Orleans, looking for that elusive photo-op by wheech they hope to convince a majority of the American televison-viewing audience that they are sincerely trying to rebuild a city wheech they have always held een contempt.

Thees situation had Scout Prime apparently theenking about the visuals, and considering the fine suggestion of the new Orleans blogger Suspect Device:

If you live /work in NOLA and own an American flag, fly it upside down this Wednesday. Hell, fly it upside down the whole week.

Scout Prime’s completely appropriate and reasonable reaction:

I think we bloggers should post upside down flags in solidarity.

I must reply een strong affirmation, I have followed Scout’s lead and posted Suspect Device’s flag banner as well. Eet ees to be hoped that other bloggers will see their way clear to reciprocating.

147. marisacat - 28 August 2007

Well Sabrina

I started commenting in November. of 2002.

I dunno, at the risk of raising the issue of myself.. i don’t expect people to be somewhere for the so called figure head.

It had to have something. And very soon it had the bells and whistles..which def set it apart and I am sure appealed to some, and some of us said we’d b happy iwth fewer bells and whistles (ratings for one).

The heavy shits walked in the door spring summer of 03, tho Ron K, Seattle had been there early on.

I am curious, where did you comment in 02?

148. marisacat - 28 August 2007

If you look in the upper right column Sabrina you will see May – October. Or as I moved to August, then May thru Oct links appeared.

I began checking the blog in october 2002.

To me much is missing. I followed threads, not long ones, but threads. Kos put up between 2, 3 to 5 or so posts a day.

Where the rest is, who knows.

149. marisacat - 28 August 2007

new thread:


150. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 August 2007

I was on Alternet in 2002 which I found through a link from another site. It had a really good discussion forum with people from all over the world, including from the ME at the time. I was also on another site which had both Repubs and Dems, a wild place, like the wild west, but fun .. I used to link to Buzzflash and a few others for information and found DU in 2004. I’m not sure when I became aware of Daily Kos. But I just followed links usually from other sites and didn’t really stay long.

Yes, marisacat, when I looked at Oct. Nov. 2002 eg, there were other people writing and already a LOT more commenters. But in July, it was only kos and he was getting 0 comments on most of his posts. Don’t know if you clicked the link above … but here’s an example

Thursday | August 01, 2002

Loyal to a fault

During Bush’s 2000 campaign, Cheney was charged with interviewing vice presidential candidates. He went through the motions of interviewing a half dozen top Republicans, before concluding that he, Cheney, was the best option. Bush happily went along with that underwhelming recommendation.

Now that the administration faces its “Cheney problem”, it is fun to wonder whether Bush is bitter about his decision. This is not to imply that Cheney is under fire. If there’s one thing that Bush has shown (and I admire this) is that he’s loyal to a fault. While his administration is more nakedly political than even Clinton’s, Bush has shown time and time again that personal trust and loyalty trumps all political considerations.

Some argue that Bush simply cannot admit to making a mistake, thus he sticks with Ashcroft, White, Pitt, and O’Neil even as the press, pundits, and congressmen scream for their resignations. Bush is clearly incapable of admitting a mistake, but his loyalty goes deeper than simple CYA. It is genuine. Perhaps the only part of Bush that isn’t stage managed or reek of hypocrisy. How else can anyone explain Army Secretary White? He would’ve been long-gone in any other administration.

So Cheney soldiers on, fundraising away, steering far clear of any reporters, SEC investigators, or Judicial Watch process servers. Bush will defend Cheney to the death, but one can’t help but wonder if Bush ever regrets taking his friend’s VP recommendation.

09:27 AM | Link | Comments (3) |

Torch in trouble
NJ Sen. Bob Toricelli is in a statistical dead heat with his Republican rival. The poll is partisan (R), but still, it is clear that Toricelli’s ethical problems are plaguing his campaign.

Toricelli was “severely admonished” by the Senate Ethics Committee for accepting thousands of dollars in gifts from a campaign supporter. Now, the committee refuses to release any documents from its investigation beyond the final report. This is a mistake. While it may help Toricelli and the Dems in the short term, it smacks of hypocrisy — how can Dems demand the SEC release documents of its Harken/Bush investigation, or of the Cheney energy task force, when they refuse to play by the same rules?

09:01 AM | Link | Comments (0) |

I tried to get back to May, but it won’t go there right now. Anyhow, with content like that, I’m not sure what attracted people to it. Especially with other sites with so much more info and writers at the time.

151. marisacat - 28 August 2007


I followed your link and worked from there. Your link went to one week in July. Roughly July 26 to Agust 1.

He started May 22 (thereabouts). I am nto surprised the summer was quiet.

It is just a site, that went big time in a tiny way inside a narrow slice of election politics.

It also was n ot all that I read online…

152. Sabrina Ballerina - 28 August 2007

No, I’m not criticizing people who were posting there after it grew, I’m wondering how anyone found found him, like Billmon and the others who were great writers. If I had found it then, in Nov eg, I probably would have stayed around, but not if I had found it in July …. I guess I wasn’t clear. I was trying to figure out how he grew so fast from July to Oct.

By the time I did link to it, I don’t remember when that was, I was already posting on at least two blogs and didn’t have time for more.

I came here because of your writing, and the commenters, but kos himself would not have been an incentive to sign up judging by what’s on those July posts. Maybe it was just luck everyone was very upset back then, and searching for like-minded people …

153. Marie - 28 August 2007

SB – might be able to help out on that history. I started surfing the net towards the end of the 2000 election. Truly knew how dangerous GWB/Cheney were. So, I became obsessive about watching the polls. All MSM stuff. Then after the election,surfed to find voices that told me I wasn’t alone or crazy for having tried to look closely at the results in every damn county in FL and trying to fit that in with the pre-election polls. Didn’t find all that much, but enoug to keep me going and wasn’t spending much time surfing. I kept sensing that there was more out there but didn’t know how to find it. Found my way to Media Whores, Sommersby, Common Dreams and Counterpunch and that was it until the day I clicked a link (yeah, seems silly that I wouldn’t have known to do that earlier but computes and the internet have never been more than a tool for me and you have to play a bit to discover the cool stuff.) And one link led to another.

IIRC first landed on Atrios and then MyDD. The latter seemed to have some of that horse race stuff that I liked. By then Media Whores was so frequently out to pasture that I quit going there. MyDD led me to Kos. This was mid to late summer 2002. I read their analyses and kept trying to square that with my read of the polls. I’ve taken a numer of stat courses but nothing specifically on polling; so was relying on my general information to guide me. Every which way I look at it was grim and yet, these guys you spoke with such authority were singing a different tune. So, I tried to piggyback on their optimism.

After the election, I was pissed. They’d been wrong all along and I a mere reader (lurker) had been right. That’s when I began opening the threads to comment. (Before then I read some threads, they weren’t long then. Also tried to read DU but it was too overwhelming for me.) A lot of other people showed up right after the election. billmon was one but I can’t say for sure if Soto wasn’t there before then. There were plenty of fights but no enforcers. I was there the day Kos posted in the thread (tht was rare for him to do – and I still pronounce his name as “cause”) “billmon, I have a question, can you e-mail me.” Bizarrely enough, I knew exactly what he was going to ask. Might have also seen him make the same request of Soto but don’t have a clear memory of that. What was clear to any reader was that those two were better writers. Most of us merely posted a sentence or two. Anyway, that’s how those two became guest posters. (No FP in those days.)

The site continued to grow and billmon and Soto left to do their own thing. Gilliard was next — never my cup of tea, not even the invasion stuff which he mostly got wrong. (How anybody could doubt that the US military couldn’t quickly march into Baghdad was odd to me.) After that we got the first nasty one RonK.

In the meantime, Dean was the fav candidate in the weekly straw poll. Kos then began talking up Clark. Jerome was in the Dean camp early on and in early 2003 it appeared that Kos and Jerome were still tight. Or maybe Kos was just out there looking for other possible funding sources for himself. In retrspect, he probably wasn’t an honest blogger. The Dean campaign came up with bucks before Clark did anything. Armstrong may be a dirtbag, but he did shut down MyDD while he worked for that campaign. Kos endorsed Dean but oh, so reluctantly and not fully transparent about working for Dean which he said was only technical which I think was true.

It was after that 5/03 -6/03 when the hordes of Clark operatives began arriving. Several of us, including Marisa, smelled Clinton all over it. Knew that it would split Dean’s support if not beaten down. Dean still had a chance because there wasn’t another front runner, but Clark was crimping his momentum which is deadly for someone who started off with no name recognition. Whether they intended Clark to go the distance to be the nominee that would lose to GWB or just to get in and take Dean down a couple of pegs until they could decide who would be the sacrificial lamb, we’ll probably never know. My guess is the deal was done with Kerry when he opted out of federal matching funds (Oct ’03?) and Clark demonstrated that he was far from ready for prime time. It was really an ugly place there that fall.

Looking back on this, wonder if the funding source for Media Whores was re-directed to a few blogs. JMM and Kos. I still don’t think that Duncan Black is part of that cabal – his voice has never changed in all these years and I know that he worked with Media Matters. (That’s where the tipoff about Gannon came from but don’t want to say more than that online.) Had I landed on dKos when it was first launched I probably would have laughed and moved on. It was only much later than I went back to the archives and saw that Kos said in may or june tht the Iraq invasion was never on and now it’s off the table. I’d known that it was on the table in 2000 and was never a question of if only when unless Congress stopped him.

So, there it is.

154. marisacat - 28 August 2007

Also Sabrina

Kos was active in politics. he ws doing part time consulting. Soto predated Billmon, Soto is a Democrat in SF. Billmon is Eastern Seabord, Ron K is Kings CO WA… there were others…

Plus none of us knows how long Kos has known Simon Rosenberg (NDN) or Trippi, who was def clued into the nets and raring to go. Among others.

Think I am # 45 at MyDD but I never posted there til once in 2005. [They did a FP piece that was designed to send the message that we dissidents at LSF should ocme inside.]

A couple of low key Dean consultants posted early on at Dkos, Joey D for one, he went to Burlington before 2003.

kos was involved in one of the Draft Clark groups… in 2002 – word gets around.

I came in thru Josh Marshall which was just Josh then. he linked to Kos as did Atrios.

155. Shadowthief - 28 August 2007

#110 Marie

Re: Moulitsas’ “luck” was quite apparently manufactured. Most of the initial traffic for DailyKos was directed there by sites associated with Howard Dean’s campaign. When Dean’s campaign took off, so did DailyKos.

People found a large, interactive blog when they came to DailyKos, which is why so many of them stayed. Moulitsas puffed up his reputation as some sort of online revolutionary in order to cow ever-gullible into thinking that he was, as Eleanor Clift of Newsweek wrote, “Moses leading the Democrats to the Promised Land.” Yes, Clift really did write that (http://tinyurl.com/3cuff3).

I would say that a lot of Moulitsas’ “luck” was not luck at all: Joe Trippi (who, like Moulitsas, is a fellow at Simon Rosenberg’s New Politics Institute think tank) and Jerome Armstrong, among others, helped direct traffic to DailyKos. As Marisacat has noted many times, the WEBBies (White Establishment Boy Bloggers) have formed a closed circuit, all linking primarily to one another.

The fix, as they say, was in from the beginning. And I seem to recall that Moulitsas pretended to be a liberal–or at least was more more coy about it–in the early days of his blog, when he wanted to lure progressives into posting there. And in the beginning, the writing quality was far better than it was now–even better in 2005, when I joined (and was banned) than it is now. Moulitsas drove off most of the good writers after he figured he’d successfully pulled his bait-and-switch. Now establishment politicians pay homage to him and he has a boatload of butt kissers–what does he need with articulate, insightful writers and independent thinkers?

156. Shadowthief - 28 August 2007

Sabrina wrote:

Now, there’s the scrubbing of the letters. As someone above said, ‘how does a guy with a blog’ have the power to get something like that scrubbed, and the response from the woman who wrote the letter?

‘Twas me, and again I ask: how does “just a guy with a blog” manage to get lobbed only softball questions in ALL of his press interviews, and how does he manage to have Northern Star censor their online archives to suit HIS purposes?

To those who say that Moulitsas is inconsequential, I say: A man who has an annual blog convention named after him, and manages to pull all of the leading Democratic contenders for the 2008 presidential nomination to attend that convention, is not an inconsequential figure.

It doesn’t really matter if Moulitsas is a CIA agent or comes from the Salvadoran oligarchy: what we can observe of his behaviour since he began his blog is evidence enough that the man is a con artist and does not fit the definition of a political “progressive” by any stretch of the imagination. What’s more, Moulitsas himself has openly disavowed the label “progressive” and calls himself a “libertarian Democrat”, which is his code for “Reagan Republican”. That’s all I need to know. All this stuff about his alleged CIA connection and family background might make for interesting reading, but no one should need that to convince them that Moulitsas is a great big fat flaming fraud. Marisacat and many others figured that out about him years ago; I realised it about three months after I started posting on DailyKos in 2005, and have seen nothing to discourage my view of him since that time.

157. Shadowthief - 28 August 2007

I wish you people would stop talking about Senator Craig and Moulitsas in the same message thread…I just know I’m going to have dreams where Moulitsas is trying to change into his Power Rangers undies and Senator Craig is watching him whilst lounging on a velvet sofa (wearing a red satin robe and gold chains, of course), saying, “Yaaaaaaaaa baby, that’s the stuff!”

Oh God I will need electroshock therapy to get that image out of my head, thank you very much!

158. marisacat - 28 August 2007

Moulitsas is trying to change into his Power Rangers undies and Senator Craig is watching him whilst lounging on a velvet sofa (wearing a red satin robe and gold chains, of course), saying, “Yaaaaaaaaa baby, that’s the stuff!”
—- S-thief

that is quite an image.


I remembered something else.

The bigger blogs (all is relative, 2002/3) then were the ‘Warblogs”. Both sides, blogs for and agaisnt the war, the Iraqi war, I mean.

Kos gradually increased the image of anti Iraq War, Gilliard was not for the war, neither was Billmon. Nor was Ron K who sometimes wrote for the blog.

Also the first major media notice that I was aware of Forbes profiled 6 so called War Blogs. 3 each side. One was Tacitus and another one was Daily Kos. That is probably findable, it was online at the time..

then quite quickly Dkos was selected by the Library of Congress to be archived. I don’t know what other blogs they selected.

Also when I first went there, the word liberal was on the left side, top of the side bar. At one time I went back to check the old archives, and it was there.

159. ms_xeno - 28 August 2007


…I also need new plumbing and a new car … both of which I wish people could live without … they are nothing but trouble. ’sigh’! Sorry to moan …

As well you should be. If you just had your attitude problem chopped and channeled, you could have your own glizty blog and mega book deal in no time. Who knows ? Maybe even an appearance on “The View.”


Don’t hit me. Look. I brought macaroons. Very fresh. 😉

160. brinn - 29 August 2007


Whaaa? The Library of Congress has archived blogs? Really? Online? On paper? Can you point me to more information, Mcat?

oh, and ‘mornin’ all!

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