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Land Grab 4 September 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, DC Politics, Israel/AIPAC, The Battle for New Orleans, WAR!.

Electronic Intifada:

BRUSSELS, Sep 1 (IPS) – Trade between the European Union and Israel should be halted in protest at human rights violations in the Palestinian territories, a United Nations conference has heard.

Under a so-called association agreement, Israel currently enjoys free trade in industrial goods, and preferential treatment of farm produce entering the European Union.

Luisa Morgantini, a vice-president of the European Parliament, said that her institution has called for this agreement to be suspended. So far, however, these calls have been rejected by EU governments and by the Union’s executive, the European Commission.

This is despite how Article 2 of the agreement, which entered into force in 2000, commits both sides to respect human rights.

Morgantini was speaking at a UN conference on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in Brussels (30-31 August).   She argued that the EU has made “a lot of mistakes” in its handling of relations with the Middle East, particularly over the last year.

It was wrong, she said, for the Union to suspend direct aid to the Palestinian Authority in 2006, when the Islamist party Hamas swept to victory in parliamentary elections that the Union officially considered as fair and democratic.

She denounced, too, the EU’s decision to focus its support on the West Bank rather than Gaza. “As Europeans, we have to push not to divide but to unite the Palestinian people,” she said. “Our policy is sometimes exactly the opposite of this.”

She also voiced unease about how the EU has since 2005 been operating a border assistance mission in Rafah, the sole connection point between Gaza and the outside world.

The crossing has been largely closed by Israeli forces since Hamas seized control of Gaza in June, with the EU staff involved in the assistance mission taking no action to lift restrictions on the movement of Palestinians.

Eoin Murray from the Irish anti-poverty organization Trocaire said that the EU has become “a subcontractor for the occupation” of Palestine and that the Union’s Rafah mission should be abandoned.

Each morning, he told IPS, the members of the EU mission travel to a point beside the crossing known to Palestinians as Karim Abu Salam, and to Israelis as Kerin Shalom. “The Israelis then say that they can’t come in for security reasons,” he said. “And the EU just accepts that.” [snip]

May the calls for sanctions and sanity persist.


It looks like the Democracy NOW! program to day is nearly all New Orleans..

snip from one segment, the voice of experience, an old time SNCC guy, Mississippi organiser at 18 in 1961:

AMY GOODMAN: And what do you think the equivalent is here now in New Orleans?

CURTIS MUHAMMAD: I think public school education is one. We proved that in New Orleans before Katrina. I think public school education is a mass consensus in America. And I think you can organize around it, and parents and students would take risk on that question. I really do.

I also think that genocide is growing to be one, and I think that the enslaved men and black male children between fourteen and twenty-five — every mother have lost a child to the slave trade of the prison-industrial complex, and I think that the movement ignores it, because they never saw that black males were at the bottom of oppression, because our oppression has been defined by other than our own community. But if you ask the average black mother, “My children don’t get educated, and my boys are going to jail.”

AMY GOODMAN: What do you think of the charter schools and the firing of all the teachers after the hurricane?

CURTIS MUHAMMAD: I think it’s another form of slavery. It’s another way to isolate the very poor and the very dire, so that genocide is possible. I think we are involved in a genocidal mode in this country for particularly young black males right now, and I think very poor black folks are very vulnerable to it. So I think this hurricane was an opportunity to do it. They just missed it.

I think we need a whole re-education in this country. We didn’t — we missed it when we watched the automation of the cotton picker thirty or forty years ago. We missed the fact that three, four, five million people were still on cotton plantations and tobacco plantations and sugarcane plantations who had been there since slavery, never reading, never writing, knowing nothing about society, was dumped all at once, within one-and-a-half decades, into the major cities of the country.

Something like one-fifth of our population had just come off the plantations in 1965, ’70. And those are they who are the super poor, who are uneducated, that this country do not want to invest in educating. I mean, there’s some stuff going on among us that we just have not taken the time to look at.

AMY GOODMAN: Housing, who do you believe in New Orleans is designing this experiment on privatization? There’s a T-shirt at the tribunal that says something like “Don’t believe the hype. It’s not redevelopment” — let’s see if I can get it exactly. “It’s not redevelopment that is slow, so-called, here” — let me get it exactly.

“Don’t believe the hype. Gulf Coast recovery is not ‘slow.’ It’s a privatization scheme that takes away our homes, schools, hospitals and human rights.”

Do you agree with that?

CURTIS MUHAMMAD: You know, this thing is so big, Amy, that I’m really nervous about grabbing a little piece of something to agree or disagree with, because it’s such a massive, broad scheme.

Since you do a lot of investigative stuff, you need to look at the shipbuilding contracts and where they are right now and look at the number of them that’s coming to shipyards along this coast of New Orleans and look at the new shipyards being constructed. You need to look at the oil find in the Gulf, that was equivalent to some of the biggest oil finds in the Middle East, and the development that has happened since that find, the number of new rigs that have been built right out on the Gulf Coast. And then we need to think about what is the plan for the mouth of the Mississippi moving up in this city that is host to the —

AMY GOODMAN: What do you think of the candidates coming in on the anniversary of Katrina? I think Barack Obama came, and Hillary Clinton. I think John Edwards was here. Well, of course, President Bush. Alberto Gonzales said it was one of the high points of his career, was New Orleans and the Katrina time, because of the level of cooperation.

CURTIS MUHAMMAD: You know, I mean, poor people have all — this is — poor people have always been the — what’s the word? — the —

AMY GOODMAN: “Backdrop”?

CURTIS MUHAMMAD: Yeah, for political poo-poo. You know, they show up at our picnics in an election year and talk about how they’re going to do this for us and put chickens in our pot and cars in our garages, and jobs, and they always promise this poo-poo. But then, what’s so ugly about this, what’s so ugly about New Orleans, I mean, we have recorded close to 6,000 people that died. We think that was a real intentional attempt to wipe out 100,000 black folks right here with Hurricane Katrina. And here’s all these thousands of people using these poor people to pick their stuff up and stand tall and look like somebody, and nothing changes. You walked around this town. The Ninth Ward ain’t changed. Public housing ain’t changed. Ain’t nobody doing nothing for no poor people.

The housing going on, so they took care to elect — they’re doing something down there for, what, the musicians. You saw that. They’re doing something for the homeowners. You see that down there by the levee, what the town community is called, back there behind the Ninth Ward, and they call it Ninth Ward, what —

AMY GOODMAN: Holy Cross.

CURTIS MUHAMMAD: Holy Cross community, you see this kind of construction going on. You see the Garden District downtown, the casinos, the hotels, you see it. It’s not a secret. And so, people come here and say, “Oh, we’re going to do this, we’re going to do” — and then we still poor, we still got nothing, still got no help.

And you know what? When I travel around the country people think that folks are doing stuff for poor people in New Orleans. That’s what’s so weird. I was just in Europe. People in England said they were surprised that poor people ain’t got no houses. They thought — I was down in Latin America. People thought we weren’t catching hell. In some kind of way they are able to project this feeling that everything is OK in New Orleans. You know, people like me get accused of being a conspiracy theorist or something, but this is stuff people can see. They literally have no intentions, by evidence, of bringing poor black folks back to this city.

From the close, on Ray Nagin:

AMY GOODMAN: What about Ray Nagin, the Mayor?

CURTIS MUHAMMAD: That’s another long story. You’ve got to deal with the fact that we were the slaves of masters from England, from France, and from Spanish, to understand that. You’d have to understand the apartheid of the white light-skinned Creole, dark-skinned Creole and the black folk. The reality of New Orleans is a cast that was institutionalized by the Spanish that other people honored, and we still in it. Ray’s heritage is the islands, so his heritage is part of the Creole heritage. This town has never been politically run by anybody else other than Creoles. We don’t like to talk about it. We like to be cool.

But part of the problem here is we have a serious apartheid. I mean, local, state and national governments were in an agreement to allow those 100,000 people to die, and Ray Nagin was the mayor. I don’t back off of that. And we had 278 buses upstairs on the sixth floor of the damn city parking lot that could have driven people out of this town. I’m sorry. Ray can’t do that to me. He was in agreement.

And nowhere else in history has every arm of the government agreed to let something like that happen. Even slavery, everybody wasn’t in agreement. But on this one, the local, state and national governments had agreement to just let them people sit here.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you think the whole thing can happen again?

CURTIS MUHAMMAD: Yes, I do. I really do. But they will be much better at painting the picture. There won’t be nobody like me looking at it, I bet you. It can happen again.

It’s all connected.


Snippet from the Friday show on the Danziger Bridge killings:

DR. ROMELL MADISON: OK. My brothers were seeking help to get to safety on the east side of the Danziger Bridge by officers on the west side, and it hadn’t flooded, so they had refuge there. But they didn’t have food or water, so they would go to the east side, where everyone was being picked up to be brought to safety to the dome and to the Convention Center.

On the day of September 4th, there was a family at the foot of the bridge, a husband, wife, daughter, three small kids and a teenager. During that time they were on the bridge, they noticed a rental truck, a moving van-type-sized truck, about a mid-sized van. It pulled up where the family was. They exited the truck. About seven men exited the truck, and they opened fire on the family at the foot of the bridge. One individual was killed. Everyone was wounded, but one of the children. The children’s ages were from fourteen to nineteen.

After seeing that, they started retreating back to the westbound side of the Danziger Bridge back toward my office again. And at that point the police officers opened fire on them. They wounded my brother Ronald in the back twice. My brother Lance was able to get him to the other side of the bridge and put him on the grass, and then he ran for help. When he did return, he was relieved to find the National Guard and the state police, and he was telling them what happened.

At that point, the police officers walked up, and then they finally disclosed that they were police, because when they originally got out of the van, they were dressed in shorts, T-shirts, just plain shirts. They never identified themselves as being police. And to see them open fire on a small group of individuals, African American individuals, at the foot of the bridge, they just figured they were out to, you know, go hunting and shooting and killing people.

It’s open season.




1. Paul - 4 September 2007

Very informative.

2. marisacat - 4 September 2007

Public Service Announcement:

*[new] a bunch of people (0.00 / 0)

now have the keys to MAMZ.

by Cuntabitcheous @ Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 10:59:13

AM PDT[ Parent | Respond to this Idiocy

3. ms_xeno - 4 September 2007

Pity poor Mr. Stomach Flu at PFF. Spewing his usual out both ends in so many threads, but so few suckers remaining to wander over and take a sniff.

And don’t look at me to clean it up. I’m all out of disinfectant. Easier just to close the door and move on to the next room/thread. There are so many…

4. marisacat - 4 September 2007

oops sorry! ms xeno

Who is “Mr Stomach Flu”???

I must not be keeping up! Not enuf anyway…

5. ms_xeno - 4 September 2007

Sorry, Mcat.

Mr. Stomach Flu = D*v*d B*r*n.

As in the unanswerable riddle: Which is more fun to have over for the weekend ? Stomach Flu or B*r*n.

To be honest, I have decided in retrospect that I’d go with the flu. At least I can say that I’ve never entertained it before. 😀

6. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 September 2007

Excellent post, Marisa. US prisons = the new slavery! Especially the privatization of them. I remember that video from one of them, in Texas I think, before Abu Ghraib, with dogs used on a naked prisoner. Airc, everyone turned away pretty much.

But there are little rays of hope.

Eoin Murray from the Irish anti-poverty organization Trocaire said that the EU has become “a subcontractor for the occupation” of Palestine and that the Union’s Rafah mission should be abandoned.

Nowhere near enough, and not much here for the plight of the victims of Katrina, but some.

7. marisacat - 4 September 2007

TAP taps it out.

Compelled to reach beyond what is perceived as their natural political base, these candidates and their message may hold the keys to the future of the Democratic Party. It is a message that eschews divisions, particularly racial ones; it taps into an optimism, real or manufactured, that we are all in this together, full of possibility; and it avoids the negative and what detractors call victimhood. Patrick’s 2006 campaign slogan in Massachusetts was, “Together We Can,” and it is no coincidence that Patrick had the same political consultants as Obama, whose 2004 senate-campaign slogan was, “Yes, We Can.”

This is, in essence, the message of the Democratic Party, which has been accused, sometimes fairly, of being less a party than a collection of interest groups. And there may be no more treacherous ground for a Democratic candidate to traverse than addressing the concerns of black voters, crucial to any success, while not seeming beholden to them. Actually, the job may be easier for black Democratic politicians, who can preach togetherness with a reduced burden of having to establish their bona fides with black voters.

Thanks, I am in the corner with the SNCC guy (see post at the top of the thread).

“The country has evolved on race,” Davis says [Artur Davis, D-AL, DLC]. “I think in the next 15 years there will be six to 10 African Americans who, if their careers take the right turns, will be in position to contend for the presidency. That’s breathtaking.”

In all likelihood, they will be less liberal and more centrist than those who came before them. Ford opposes gay marriage and supported the war in Iraq. Davis is anti-abortion and pro-gun. Obama, who comes from a liberal city in a Democratic state, also opposes gay marriage, and he angered many progressives and party members when, in his first few weeks in the Senate, the new liberal champion voted for a tort-reform bill that was one of the president’s top priorities.

8. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 September 2007

#2 Marisacat, isn’t that Diane from MLW? From the little I saw of her, I always thought she was a kos sychophant, there to cleanse the site of anti-kos material. Something about her didn’t seem genuine. Either that a total sucker-upper to the big boys.

9. lucid - 4 September 2007

MitM – 2 threads back re: Catherine Austin Fitts.

She’s an odd one. She was forced out of the Bush administration because she uncovered a huge embezzlement scam at HUD – and she completely turned on the Republican Party [especially after they harassed her with investigations to keep her mouth shut]. Yes she does advocate some ‘conservative’ fiscal policies, such as returning to the gold standard, but then again there are many on the left who would back that as well – or at least some kind of standard so that derivatives trading doesn’t undermine the entire world economy. I’d need to take a close look at the proposal to see what it advocates, but from what I know of her writings, she seems to be very much a ‘small business based’, sustainable capitalist. This is not necessarily what I would advocate, but it sure is a hell of a lot better than global corporatism & is actually quite opposed to the official Libertarian platform… She also writes extensively about the evils of the drug war – and is quite good on analyzing the black market money laundering propping up sectors of our economy.

That article reads kind of like a hatchet job on her.

Then again, I also know she is a ‘religious’ woman from the south – which is enough to make me suspicious.

10. marisacat - 4 September 2007


yes the author of the comment is Diane W

Oh I thnk she is just an aging ribald girl, a playmate of WIndsock.

Not much more. SOrry to be blunt. I really was just posting that the moniker MAMZ is going to be a MLW group endeavor.


Think peeder has what he planned for, with semi politics as the cover. Should be fun to watch…

11. D. Throat - 4 September 2007

For a long time I thought that the Conservatives (GOP/DEM) just wanted to turn back the clock to the fifties… but now I am certain they want to turn it back pre Civil War.

It just clicked to me what the real “Ownership Society” they speak about … is “Landed Gentry”.

You don’t own … you are nothing.

12. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 September 2007

What a waste of time then. Too bad they can’t put their energy into trying to do something for the country. It’s fun for a while, but I’ve seen that kind of meta dominated board before and it gets boring really fast. If peeder wants a playground for a few old posters with grudges against each other from MLW, that’s his choice. Someone else will no doubt start another board. It’s sort of inevitable.

13. Marie - 4 September 2007

The less than 50 year progression of the map of Palestine map doesn’t need any words. I’d shove it in the face of anyone that claims that Clinton was an honest I/P peace broker and Arafat was just too stupid or venal to recognize a good deal. Arafat may have been stupid and venal but less so than the deal Clinton and Israel tried to shove down his throat. Well, wouldn’t expect a large number of Americans to be familiar with those maps (might make them feel too uncomfortable) when they can’t even locate Iraq on a world map.

14. marisacat - 4 September 2007

D Throat

I agree. Gringrich is very malevolent with his “ownership society”.

he uses it to blast San Francisco (and did so before katrina) as we have for a variety of reasons, overall low home ownership. Around 32% last i read.

15. marisacat - 4 September 2007


Clinton’s book is loaded iwth whine about Arafat. Bill whines right along with Barak, and the other non Likuds who blast Arafat as costing them their political careers (meaning reaching the top and holding it, in a nuclear blast furnace called Israel).

I have posted it before, Madman sent me a post from lefti on the news, it had the map…

16. ms_xeno - 4 September 2007

They’d better beware of turning it back too far, D. Throat. Wasn’t it just after the Civil War that we got the noxious declaration that corporations are to be legal entities with the same rights as individual humans ? (Cough.)

Anyway, I Democrats are as bad in their own mushy way about “ownership” as are the Republicans. The convulsive hatred by Kozzies of the 1960s is directly related to the notion that there’s something inherently derranged about rejecting any material good above and beyond basic comfort. Frankly, I think there’s room for discussion of problems with 1960s era organizing (and trying to transplant it unaltered into the modern age, but that’s not what the Kozzies are het up about. They are genuinely hateful towards anyone whose ambitions are more complex than some treats and an unchallenging 9-to-5– the latter preferably in management.

17. marisacat - 4 September 2007

Oh sorry Sabrina

I did not mean that peeder was tied to MLW (tho wise to remember where he put in time with in the blogs)

Not at all. No I think the games, overall, are it, the politics is just.. whatever.

But early days. Depends on how many golden shower photos there are.

Hard to tell. I did pay attention to the peeder comments in the marathon catnip diary however. It was revealing.

18. marisacat - 4 September 2007

From the TAP article on race politics and polticians:

There is a lot of Alabama in Alabama politics. “Not 10 minutes away from that ballroom was the 16th Street Baptist Church where those four little girls got killed in 1963,” Davis told me. He asked for a show of hands of people who were around in 1963. There was a sprinkling.

Let me just add that Condi uses that bombing as well. I read in a report a few months ago, a European official say she ws sold to some people as coming from a Civil Rights family background. Then, meeting her and dealing iwth her, he was shocked at what she really is.

Well bingo.

19. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

There’s an interesting comparison.

There are about 2 million people incarcerated in the United States. The vast majority are black and the vast majority are incarcerated for petty drug offenses, conspiracy, other non-violent “crimes”. Once you’re locked up, you lose your right to vote, your right to own a legal gun. You’re no longer a citizen.

There are 1,482,405 people in the Gaza Strip. They’re locked into one big open air prison. They have plenty of legal guns and the theoretical right to vote but no right to vote for anybody the Israelis don’t like.

In both cases, if you’re born poor and black in the USA or an Arab in the occupied territories, you have very little chance of staying “outside of the system”.

Of course 1.5 million is a much larger percentage of the Israeli population than 2 million of 300 million.

But that’s where Katrina and immigration comes in.

The ruling class wants mobility of capital and they want to control labor. The Israelis don’t want the Palestinians, even as cheap Mexican labor. Deep down in their hearts they want to get rid of them and use Filippinos or Poles or Indians or any other kind of cheap labor. The American ruling class doesn’t want blacks. Deep down inside they want them to go away and replace them with cheap Mexican labor.

The American and Israeli people to a large extent identify with their ruling classes. They accept the demonization of “the other” with little or no criticism. They both think (with some justification) that as long as they’re on the right side of the wall they’ll escape the consequences of the violence their ruling classes inflict on the rest of the world, whether it’s on the West Bank or the Rio Grande.

Occasionally you get a crisis that allows the ruling classes the opportunity to really crack down, Sharon and the Second Intafada and Katrina.

In these crises, the ruling class and the ruling class media gets to grab a large chunk of land and justify via a relentless campaign of demonization of “the other”.

Looters/Terrorists. Land in the West Bank/Public Housing in New Orleans. It’s time to clear out the dangerous untermenchen, send in troops with shoot to kill orders and take the land/property back.

Eventually white Americans and Israeli Jews will find themselves on the wrong side of the wall. They just don’t think it will ever happen.

20. lucid - 4 September 2007

They are genuinely hateful towards anyone whose ambitions are more complex than some treats and an unchallenging 9-to-5– the latter preferably in management.

That could describe 90% of those who currently vote. The rest of us are either too poor to care, too busy to care, too jaded to think that being ‘politically involved’ can really affect anything in the manner it has in years past, or are deperately trying some way to be heard, but are brushed off as ‘dirty hippies’ by the mainstream press and gatekeeper forums.

In other words, if you’re not a white, middle class, college educated, lazy, materialist sellout [or aspire to be such], you don’t count.

21. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

And what happens if you’re a member of the dominent racial/ethnic/non-demonized group that decides to go on the wrong side of the wall?


The Israeli Military… (0 / 0) …tends not tends not to injure “white people,” because there are very few “white people” in the territories who are engaged in combat against them. Ultimately when you step in front of a bulldozer, the bulldozer doesn’t care what color your skin is.

Revealing comment. Stay on your side of the wall because the wrong side is a free fire zone. And you deserve what you get.

22. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

Frederick Clarkson’s a Democratic Party loyalist but he had to write about Hillary’s Xtian wingnut friends or lose all credability. Let’s see if it makes the rec list.


23. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 September 2007

Frankly, I think there’s room for discussion of problems with 1960s era organizing (and trying to transplant it unaltered into the modern age, but that’s not what the Kozzies are het up about. They are genuinely hateful towards anyone whose ambitions are more complex than some treats and an unchallenging 9-to-5– the latter preferably in management. Ms xeno

Yes, the hatred is cloaked in criticism of using ’60s era organizing, but the visceral nature of it when spewed by kos and others, is unmistable. Imo, it is reflective of that part of the ’60s generation that was against the civil rights movement, the womens’ movement etc. I don’t know enough about the complexities of the era to do more than theorize from what I’ve observed online. Reagan hated the sixties. I think there were many like him who were afraid of ‘people power’!

Kos, Tins et al were all raised by such people, from what I’ve read about them. So they most likely heard this hatred expressed on a regular basis. Turmoil is scary to some people, especially if they feel they have something to lose by it.

In their vitriolic rhetoric against the ’60s, they practically make Republicans look mild by comparison. It’s a particular strain for them, because they have to pretend to be ‘progressive’.

I agree with you ms xeno, that there is room to discuss the methods used back then in terms of how successful they might be today, but they do not do that. They merely slam the entire era. Not even good actors. Their prejudices are very obvious.

24. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 September 2007

Marisacat, #17, sorry, I wasn’t clear, I was talking about Diane, spending her time taking the MLW battles to Pff. The site is down btw, at least it was last time I checked.

25. liberalcatnip - 4 September 2007

Oops. Looks like peeder’s blog is already broken. It’s not loading. Don’t look at me! 😉

26. peeder - 4 September 2007

Yup things went haywire and the support staff is indisposed at the moment. I’ve hacked something to try to get back up but no idea when and if it will take.

In the meantime, this is a way in:

Thanks for your patience…

27. liberalcatnip - 4 September 2007

This is just thuggish brutality and collective punishment:

Defense Min. to look into cutting Gaza off from electricity in response to rockets

By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent, Haaretz Staff and News Agencies

Defense Minister Ehud Barak ordered the defense establishment Tuesday to examine the implications of temporarily cutting the Gaza Strip off from electricity, in response to the ongoing Qassam rocket fire at southern Israel.

The defense minister ordered an examination of “the operational and legal aspects of steps designed to limit Hamas’ rule in the Gaza Strip.”

The call to cut off water, electricity, gas and fuel to the Strip is seen as an alternative – or, if unsuccessful, a prelude – to a broad IDF incursion into northern Gaza and perhaps the Philadelphi Route in the south.

Is that even permissable under international law? Not that Olmert cares about that anyway but what kind of sadistic man/government would even consider that?

28. marisacat - 4 September 2007

The ruling class wants mobility of capital and they want to control labor. The Israelis don’t want the Palestinians, even as cheap Mexican labor. Deep down in their hearts they want to get rid of them and use Filippinos or Poles or Indians or any other kind of cheap labor. The American ruling class doesn’t want blacks. Deep down inside they want them to go away and replace them with cheap Mexican labor.

The American and Israeli people to a large extent identify with their ruling classes. They accept the demonization of “the other” with little or no criticism.
— HCfM

Bingo on that.


Sorry, I just found lucid in Moderation. from about 50 minutes ago. so up

thread (apologies)


jan Shakowsky Chris Shays and Boustani (who voted NO on the war, but supports the surge… I am saying pork to Louisiana, he is R-LA) and Baird, D-… think WA.

On The News Hour.

This should be edifying. Boustani says Fallujah is great.


29. ms_xeno - 4 September 2007

SB, obvious is right. :/

Looked at the HRC thread. I miss the Hillary boosters who simply spin any and all of her associations, however dubious, as demonstrating that she’ll win by doing Whatever It Takes To Get Ahead. But maybe that contingent just hasn’t shown up yet.

Of course, these folks told themselves that Kerry’s glorious Vietnam body count was indicative of this same skill. It wasn’t. His attempt to be all things to all people ended up being fatal to his campaign. Hillary may well prove to be the same way. I just hope that her crash and burn is spectacular, because she has it coming, for sure.

30. marisacat - 4 September 2007


thanks peeder… 😉

31. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

Looked at the HRC thread.

I don’t think poor Frederick Clarkson knows what hit him. He’s used to being an “above the fray” sort of guy who gets all his diaries on the rec list because, after all, who likes Xtian Fundies.

32. marisacat - 4 September 2007

ugh I thought Kerry was nobody to nobody. The party used him and he largely pocketed the 15 mil (some say 17 mil) raised to “fight on after election”

Such fucking cons.

But then I was in such a low boil rage over him that for months I could nt say his name.

It was kind of like seeing McNamara today. I just shift to rage.

33. marisacat - 4 September 2007

Clarkson has a wide nasty streak in him

I stayed far far away from him at Dkos in 04 and 05.

Don’t disagree iwth him. He jsut cannot take it when it si widespread. Sounds like I need to go take a peek (poo)

34. liberalcatnip - 4 September 2007

From dkos on the settling of the FEC complaint:

In addition, Kos Media’s creation and distribution of the DailyKos falls within the scope of the exemption. First, the complaint does not allege, nor does publicly available information indicate, that Kos Media is owned or controlled by a political party, committee, or candidate.

35. ms_xeno - 4 September 2007

I told somebody at PFF earlier today that it’s foolish to point at some mythical “purity brigade” in the DP. There isn’t one. Not as the poster understands it anyway. The only purity that counts is pure ambition, which has backfired spectacularly before and will again. It’s like idelogical clear-cutting: Wipe out whatever you have formerly claimed made you different/better than your opponent, in the name of short-term gain. You end up gaining nothing, plus you have destroyed what could have been grown into a long-term movement. I’d feel sorrier for these people if they weren’t so hell-bent on obstructing real change for everyone else. Not only do they clear cut and then sow with salt, they leave their own turf and do the same everywhere else, too. >:

They don’t know how to negotiate. They don’t know how to share power. They don’t know how to acknowledge a history that doesn’t fit into the cozy duopolistic box. So I take satisfaction in their misery because there’s no other satisfaction to be had from them.

36. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

Clarkson has a wide nasty streak in him

He went after Cindy Sheehan in a seriously nasty way when she announced against Pelosi.

37. Revisionist - 4 September 2007

hey yall —

i am working on an article. I seem to recall that clinton has some database she isnt sharing with the party or wants people to buy into. Can someone suggest search terms or point me to what it is I am thinking about. my insomnia is making be draw blank.

38. marisacat - 4 September 2007


cannot think of his name at the moment, his father served in the FDR cab, the Clintons and he develeped a data base (for lack of the more precise name) that they are not sharing.

Separate from what the DNC built and if you are a state party or candidate and want it, pungle up brudda.

or so I read. How it shakes out for real… ?

39. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

his father served in the FDR cab

Harold Ickes?

40. marisacat - 4 September 2007

hmm curb the urge to suck:

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:



41. marisacat - 4 September 2007

39 HC

Yes thanks !! Ickes.

I confuse Indyck, Ickes and Ivo Daalder. For no good reason. The wrong name will come to me. I wanted Ickes but could only pull up Indyck.

42. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 September 2007

Thanks Peeder, you can get in with that url, but not much more.

I read that thread, I’m not familiar with Clarkson. But the Clinton supporters, Allegre et al, really are making idiots of themselves.

This is not a new story about Clinton and the fundies, and it’s important. I was shocked to learn that she has been a part of that little gender separated fundy group for so long, since Bill was President.

Baker’s wife is in it with her. I suppose the women weren’t good enough to be a part of the men’s group. Stinks royally on many levels imo. It’s almost as if, while we are all feeling sorry for her back then, she was preparing, or being prepatred for her royal ascendency.

[new] Expect to be stoned and scourged, FC (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:scoff0165
You’ve dared to sow new doubts about HRC, and that’s blasphemy.

Alegre, Berkeley Vox, Norwegian Chef, etc. believe in HRC like fundies believe in the Rapture. Theirs is a purely faith-based community.

HRC screeds must be accepted on their face as the literal word of God. Under no circumstances can they be critically parsed. HRC’s supporters are certain that they walk with Her in the garden, so Her motives and intentions are crystal clear to Her acolytes even if fuzzy or troubling to the non-believer. If you confess your love for HRC today you will be reborn in Her. But if you resist Her you will be damned on the Day of Judgment, the day of Her Election.

by LanceBoyle on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 02:48:43 PM PDT

I wonder how long before Kos is on the Hillary train? My guess is not too long …. should be fun if he does it before the primaries.

43. wilfred - 4 September 2007

Those photos of the shrinking Palestinian state look so much like the CNN report I saw today on the Earth’s disappearing lakes. They showed Lake Chad 40 years ago and what it looks like now, a shadow of its former self. The report said they keep having to redraw Atlas’ because things are changing so rapidly.

The Arctic melts as the lakes evaporate, a situation as disastrous as the Middle East.

44. Intermittent Bystander - 4 September 2007
45. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

Yes thanks !! Ickes

Ickes father was a pretty admirable figure, anti-racist, anti-fascist, ethical, pro-environment, pro-civil-liberties.

I guess the apple took a bounce or two.

46. Shadowthief - 4 September 2007

Hillary is Serena Joy, the Commander’s wife in “The Handmaid’s Tale”, one of the Wives. And that Margaret Atwood book is being used as an instruction manual for the coming theocracy–the Republic of Gilead is at hand.

47. marisacat - 4 September 2007


“She” (all the debate over what to call HRC) surely is Serena Joy.



yeah this ickes can go back in the barrel as far as I am concerned. Hateful man,…

48. Intermittent Bystander - 4 September 2007

Revisionist – Wikipedia entry on Ickes indicates that the name of the database company has changed from “Data Warehouse.”
Here’s the website: Catalist. Ickes is Prez, and Laura Quinn is CEO.

49. marisacat - 4 September 2007



yes and iirc one of the women in that group is a minister and “tended” to Hillary, got her thru the BillMess.

She is beholden to the conservative religionists. I see it that way, and they will want payment.

The stuff over the years on the Fellowship is beyond troubling. More like frightening.

It has come out, think Sharlet a few years ago, that at one of the sites, I guess the big former convent in VA, it is clear they revere anyone who can “lead” people. That includes Hitler and Osama.

the power to hynotise and grab the world’s attention would be more precise than lead. But it all comes out in the wash.

Brutes at the helm.

50. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

yeah this ickes can go back in the barrel as far as I am concerned. Hateful man,…

Ickes Sr. is sort of a liberal icon.


Ickes was a strong supporter of both civil rights and civil liberties. He had been the president of the Chicago NAACP, and supported African American contralto Marian Anderson when the Daughters of the American Revolution prohibited her from performing in their Constitution Hall. He also was an outspoken critic of the internment of Japanese Americans during World War II.

51. Shadowthief - 4 September 2007

The coup to make the United States into the Republic of Gilead is nearly complete.

Our “choices” in 2008 are between two religious fundamentalists, The Commander (Romney) or the distaff version, Serena Joy (Clinton).

The Christian Dominionists, America’s anticipation to and answer to the Taliban, have already infiltrated the Supreme Court and the highest levels of the United States military.

I am one of those who believes that a liberal democracy cannot survive unless it is secular; a theocracy is fatal to any notion of a true democracy or representative republic.

The death of liberal democracy in the United States is at hand, I fear. Thank God we English are almost all heathens (except the Moslems, of course!) 😉

52. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 September 2007

Couldn’t agree more with you, Marisacat … it is very disturbing, and interesting to see Hillary’s supporters trying to shut down the discussion. That it goes back so far, all these secret groups, and involving so-called Liberals, is just mind-boggling. It does help understand the push for Dems to seem ‘religious’. Obama’s statements, so disturbing to some, may not have been accidental, but part of the ‘strategy’.

Daily Kos with its fake, packaged religious series, it all seems part of the ‘plan’. I noticed a comment at the bottom of that thread which typifies the ‘left’, something along the lines of ‘Oh, this is great. This will help Hillary appeal to the right!!’ Wtf, why, why should we want t appeal to the right who are so wrong on just about everything!

This stockholme syndrome Dems seem to be in the grip of, is pretty stupidfying. The right is wrong, so let’s make sure to not get them upset with us!’ Kos/Trevino, another disgusting display of giving a damn about what someone like Trevino thinks!

So sick of them all, really. There is nowhere to turn.

53. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 September 2007

Good diary on DK about the latest on news coverage of the Jena Six. Seems Anderson Cooper covered the story, as well as CNN. About time to expose that injustice.


54. ms_xeno - 4 September 2007

Ah, but the Dem-Fem blogs are the only ones who get to borrow from Atwood. When it’s time to get all the “sisters” in line to kiss Big Blue Daddy’s Italian loafer one more time.

Let them have the term “feminist” if that’s the best they can do. Let them quote this book and that bok and wear their snappy t-shirts and parade their credentials and catchphrases until last call, for all I care. I’ve stopped giving a damn. What a person knows isn’t nearly as important to me nowadays as what they choose to do with their knowledge. These women don’t do anything with their knowledge but shore up the worst of what some would call patriarchal values. War, corporate hegemony, wanton destruction, the worship of power for its own sake. But in such a sisterly package you could just die.

Screw them.

55. Shadowthief - 4 September 2007

It’s a curious phenomenon in which the sons of liberal icons become tools of the right-wing. Another example is Senator Evan Bayh, the handsomely-coiffed DLCer who is the son of former senator Birch Bayh.

Bayh, for those unfamiliar with his career, was the principal author of the 25th and 26th amendments to the Constitution, which respectively provide the rules for presidential succession and lowered the federal voting age of 18 years. Bayh also authored the never-passed Equal Rights Amendment.

Senator Evan Bayh, on the other hand, has the dubious distinction of being praised by the Wall Street Journal’s fascist editorial page for cutting taxes (rather than spending surpluses on much-needed social programmes) when he was governor of Indiana, and as a senator, voted to re-authorise the Patriot Act in 2006.

On the other hand, as governor of Indiana, Bayh’s record on improving access to education was good in some respects (although the requirement that teenagers remain drug, alcohol, and crime-free in order to get free college scholarships is quite unrealistic, and seems not to permit human error in error-prone adolescents), and although Bayh voted to authorise Bush’s illegal war in Iraq, he has since become a critic and has favoured withdrawal.

Ultimately, though, Bayh is a DLCer and a Bilderberger, a Democrat cut from Clintonian cloth.

56. marisacat - 4 September 2007

God head Clinton is on with Oprah. Mr Philanthropy.

Just the latest cover for doing evil.

57. marisacat - 4 September 2007

Well let’s get real here. Death of Democracy is ntohing new. It just is in its fully visible to anyone watching death throes.

This blared forth to a high pitch as part of anti communism insanity.

The National Prayer Breakfast, underwritten by the Fellowship was 54. One nationa “under god” was same year.

I had a soft spot for Greer Garson, who said she would know she was tipping to recurring … think bi polar, she would hear her self at a party say outloud, the commies are coming, hearing that knew she was tipping over the edge, find her husband to get her home and call the doctors.

Pity the nation is not equally capable.

And that the Clintons and Bushes are in charge, Yes, I know, as fixers.

58. Intermittent Bystander - 4 September 2007

Interesting – Tried to see the Clarkson piece, and DK seems to be down now, too.

59. Marie - 4 September 2007

Oh, Serena Joy – had never considered that analogy and now the images are flooding into my brain from a book I read years ago (20?) and didn’t appreciate nearly enough at the time. I was merely calling her Hillary Thatcher. Wonder how many Hill-bots would get it if I started referring to her as Hillary Joy?

60. Shadowthief - 4 September 2007

Marie, I’ve read “The Handmaid’s Tale” four times now: the first time when it was published, a second time a few years ago to refresh my memory of it, and twice in the past year, simply because the book, unlike “1984” or “Brave New World”, seems to be prophetic: more than prophetic, it is a blueprint of what is happening to the United States.

61. Shadowthief - 4 September 2007

Marie, Hillary Joy works best if you also mention Mitt Romney as The Commander, and the United States as the Republic of Gilead.

62. Intermittent Bystander - 4 September 2007

Forty years later, and the CIA can still withhold Johnson’s PDBs, sez 9th Circuit. Reuters.

“The extreme sensitivity of the PDB enhances the plausibility of the CIA’s assertion that disclosure of the requested PDBs could cause harm even 40 years after their generation,” Raymond Fisher wrote for a three-judge panel.

“Potential sources may be frightened off if they believe promises of confidentiality are subject to an implicit time-based sunset clause at the discretion of the judiciary.”

63. Marie - 4 September 2007

Shadowthief, but if I mention Commander Mitt or Cammander Rudy, or Fred, won’t everybody first think of The Commander Guy? My guess is that Hillary Joy would go over their heads and they might even think it’s a compliment if I don’t add anything disparaging in the comment. Will test in out in a space where a defense of anybody comment would be appropriate, but just happens to be about Hillary.

64. peeder - 4 September 2007

PFF back up sorry for the delay

No idea what’s going on over on orange…shitty day in general

65. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 September 2007

IB, yes, DK is down also. I’ve had a problem with both the browsers I use, IE and Firefox lately. First the computer will start running really slow, then I have to click ctr/delete whereupon all windows close after a few scary messages ‘fatal error’ etc. Then when I try to get the browser to load, it won’t and scrolling at the bottom is a message ‘bad url grand street ‘something’. Usually after a while it works again. Today I got that ‘grandstreet url’ thingy when I clicked into Pff.

66. Miss Devore - 4 September 2007

beware…BBB surge:

“Armando… (8+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
zic, blueyedace2, kitchen table activist, melvin, Cronesense, Owllwoman, Light Emitting Pickle, Boise Lib

has since expressed his support of and surprise at kos’ post today.

“Way to make me look dumb, Kos. And shut me up quick. I thank you for it.

Kudos.”- Armando

How do I know this? We’re working on a project together and are in communication.

And because I’m not authorized to say any more about it…

I won’t.

by ek hornbeck on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 03:55:49 PM PDT”

67. dkosser - 4 September 2007

ah yes, that ol’ green n’ white bogus map rears it’s head again on the trust innernetz….

Yes, that map is rather dishonest

Before 1948, both Jews and Arabs were “Palestinians”. Palestine was a British territory, not a free state and not an Arab-only state. The labeling of all territory not owned by Jews in 1946 as “Palestinian” sets up a false disassociation to deny Jews their Palestinian heritage and imply that Jews have no right to be in Palestine.

Similarly, the UN partition plan was not between “Jews” and “Palestinians”, it was between a Jewish-led state with equal rights for Arabs and an Arab-only state where Jews were to be forbidden. The Arab state never came to exist and was folded into Egypt and Jordan, and from 1948 to 1967 there was no “Palestinian Land” as labeled on the third map. In fact, the PLO charter pre-1967 specifically rejects any Palestinian claim to the West Bank and Gaza because those lands had already been claimed by the Arab race.


ho hum

68. Miss Devore - 4 September 2007

so dkosser is Keith Moon?

69. Intermittent Bystander - 4 September 2007

66 – WTF? Say it ain’t so, ek.

And don’t walk, run.

70. dkosser - 4 September 2007

Tibet Under Siege

Chinese railway raises fears for Tibetan culture:

Critics say the train is threatening Tibetan culture by bringing in hundreds of thousands of Han Chinese to this once-isolated region.

The Chinese Government may be bringing development and jobs to Tibet but there is a cultural price to pay. Parts of Lhasa look like any provincial Chinese city, with Chinese writing, food and way of life.

“Tibetans are not allowed to openly criticise or debate the sort of economic development that’s taking place in their country, in their land,” she said.

People who travel to Tibet during the Beijing Olympics will notice there are no pictures of the exiled spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama. That is because you can be thrown in jail for having one.


71. dkosser - 4 September 2007

my post got lost…..test

72. Revisionist - 4 September 2007

SB — you should download and run counterspy from download.com. that and Kapersky are the only accurate tools IMO.

73. marisacat - 4 September 2007


WP sent you to spam. Got you out.

LOL don’t be insulted (we’ll insult you for other things), it sent me to Spam earlier.

74. marisacat - 4 September 2007

62 IB

Oh those wacky leftie NInth Circuit jdges. And the rehtoric just reinforces Le Bush.

So stuck. And surely ’63 – ’68 is as juicy as it comes. LOL Other than 68 – 72 and 72 – 76 and so on.

75. marisacat - 4 September 2007


Ender over at PFF is calling for you. He wants company.

76. dkosser - 4 September 2007


oh thanks

I just reposted the same thing.


77. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 September 2007

Here’s the Sharlet piece Marisacat referred to:

Jesus plus nothing: Undercover among America’s secret theocrats

I had nightmares when I first read it.

78. dkosser - 4 September 2007



well, I found last night’s open sewar more interesting

79. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 September 2007

I wasn’t planning on voting for him, provided he made it past Serena Joy, but now I’m SURE I won’t:

Hit Iran where it hurts

Democratic presidential hopeful takes a get-tough stance against tyrant of Tehran


Americans need to come together to confront the challenge posed by Iran. Yet the Bush administration and an anonymous senator are blocking a bill with bipartisan support that would ratchet up the pressure on the Iranian regime. It’s time for this obstructionism to stop.

The decision to wage a misguided war in Iraq has substantially strengthened Iran, which now poses the greatest strategic challenge to U.S. interests in the Middle East in a generation. Iran supports violent groups and sectarian politics in Iraq, fuels terror and extremism across the Middle East and continues to make progress on its nuclear program in defiance of the international community. Meanwhile, Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has declared that Israel must be “wiped off the map.”

AGAIN with that bullshit agitprop.

Then he goes on to talk about DIPLOMACY. Oh, and some good ole’ fashioned aisle crossing:

This common-sense approach enjoys broad support. Sam Brownback, a Republican senator and presidential candidate, joined me in introducing this bill. A companion bill passed the House of Representatives 408 to 6. The only obstacle now is a single senator who placed an anonymous “hold” on the bill, blocking it from coming to a vote.

Fuck the Donklephant imperialists.

80. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 September 2007

Obama has sold out completely. It doesn’t take them long. What happened to ‘diplomacy’?

Miss D, the planets are lining up! Soon, Armando will be embraced, having been sent into exile for his position on the war, (I know, they deny this) he will return, victorious to the fold, in time to crack the whip on all those Hillary haters who will surely still be around. They will need all the enforcers they can find!

Of course, I could be wrong … but then, how many other ‘banned’ members are spoken so warmly of on DK? Have diaries written asking them to ‘come home’ with being swarmed over by the troll patrol! No, I’m sticking by my story. They will all unite for the Last Hurrah! It is all a big scam, as marisacat says, we are skrewed.


SB — you should download and run counterspy from download.com. that and Kapersky are the only accurate tools IMO.

Thanks Revisionist …. is it safe to downoad? I do have the free version of adware which I run regularly. But it doesn’t prevent spyware, just deletes it.

81. Intermittent Bystander - 4 September 2007

Can’t be a Savior without a Devil, don’t you know!

Musn’t waste shiny political capital on your own miserable country’s decline and despair. . . .

82. marisacat - 4 September 2007

Oh… oh.

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:



83. Miss Devore - 4 September 2007

69-IB–yet another blog, but this time Armando, Sitefoulkitty and mr.ponydrama are in the mix:


will there be anyone left to read pubichair in delaware?

84. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 September 2007

More Republican crocodile tears:

In the fall of 2003, Jack L. Goldsmith was widely considered one of the brightest stars in the conservative legal firmament. A 40-year-old law professor at the University of Chicago, Goldsmith had established himself, with his friend and fellow law professor John Yoo, as a leading proponent of the view that international standards of human rights should not apply in cases before U.S. courts. In recognition of their prominence, Goldsmith and Yoo had been anointed the “New Sovereigntists” by the journal Foreign Affairs.

Goldsmith had been hired the year before as a legal adviser to the general counsel of the Defense Department, William J. Haynes II. While at the Pentagon, Goldsmith wrote a memo for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld warning that prosecutors from the International Criminal Court might indict American officials for their actions in the war on terror. Goldsmith described this threat as “the judicialization of international politics.” No one was surprised when he was hired in October 2003 to head the Office of Legal Counsel, the division of the Justice Department that advises the president on the limits of executive power. Immediately, the job put him at the center of critical debates within the Bush administration about its continuing response to 9/11 – debates about coercive interrogation, secret surveillance and the detention and trial of enemy combatants.

Nine months later, in June 2004, (Madman … hmmm … wasn’t there AN ELECTION LOOMING?!?) Goldsmith resigned. Although he refused to discuss his resignation at the time, he had led a small group of administration lawyers in a behind-the-scenes revolt against what he considered the constitutional excesses of the legal policies embraced by his White House superiors in the war on terror. During his first weeks on the job, Goldsmith had discovered that the Office of Legal Counsel had written two legal opinions – both drafted by Goldsmith’s friend Yoo, who served as a deputy in the office – about the authority of the executive branch to conduct coercive interrogations. Goldsmith considered these opinions, now known as the “torture memos,” to be tendentious, overly broad and legally flawed, and he fought to change them. He also found himself challenging the White House on a variety of other issues, ranging from surveillance to the trial of suspected terrorists. His efforts succeeded in bringing the Bush administration somewhat closer to what Goldsmith considered the rule of law – although at considerable cost to Goldsmith himself. By the end of his tenure, he was worn out. “I was disgusted with the whole process and fed up and exhausted,” he told me recently.

After leaving the Office of Legal Counsel, Goldsmith was uncertain about what, if anything, he should say publicly about his resignation. (Madman: I can think of a few choice words I’d like to share with him.) His silence came to be widely misinterpreted. After leaving the Justice Department, he accepted a tenured professorship at Harvard Law School, (Madman … gee, I wonder if THAT’S why he kept his mouth shut?) where he currently teaches. During his first weeks in Cambridge, in the fall of 2004, some of his colleagues denounced him for what they mistakenly assumed was his role in drafting the torture memos. One colleague, Elizabeth Bartholet, complained to a Boston Globe reporter that the faculty was remiss in not investigating any role Goldsmith might have played in “justifying torture.” “It was a nightmare,” Goldsmith told me. “I didn’t say anything to defend myself, except that I didn’t do the things I was accused of.”

Gee, Goldsmith, have you ever heard the aphorism that “silence equals assent”? In fact, though your information could have had some impact on the political debate, at a crucial time, you held out UNTIL YOU GOT A JUICY JOB, and now you whine that people were UNFAIR to you?

People are dead. People are STILL being tortured. The war has expanded, and is likely to spill over into another country. Habeas Corpus is completely gone.

Goldsmith told me that he has decided to speak publicly about his battles at the Justice Department because he hopes that “future presidents and people inside the executive branch can learn from our mistakes.” In his view, American presidents for the foreseeable future will, like George W. Bush, face enormous pressure to be aggressive and pre-emptive in taking measures to prevent another terrorist attack in the United States. At the same time, Goldsmith notes, everywhere the president looks, critics – as well as his own lawyers – are telling him that pre-emptive actions may violate international law as well as U.S. criminal law. What, exactly, are the legal limits of executive power in the post-9/11 world? How should administration lawyers negotiate the conflict between the fear of attacks and the fear of lawsuits?

Fuck him, and all of the other fucking Republicans and Democrats coming forward with stories about how they tried to stop it, all conveniently AFTER it could have DONE ANY GOOD. I knew they were lying, and I’m just a schlub who surfs the internet and who actually tries to FUCKING RETAIN SOME OF THE HISTORY THAT I’VE READ, who actually pays attention to things other than DC coctail party chatter. There were people who did raise their voices and got trashed for it … do the rest of you think you might have helped them?!!?

Spare me talk about “conservatives” with “consciences” who helped, either overtly or through silence, to enable a tyrant. Too little, too late motherfucker, the Republic is GONE. Cashing in on your fucking book now isn’t going to help “future Presidents”, provided we even have any, and provided that ANY President who might take office is going to willingly take their claws off the power that Bush/Cheney have locked into that office.


85. Paul - 4 September 2007


“Ultimately when you step in front of a bulldozer, the bulldozer doesn’t care what color your skin is.”

The author writes as if the Bulldozer were a just a force of nature and not a machine in the control of a driver.

Rachel was in front of the dozer with a bullhorn for a very long time. I can’t imagine how it could have been an accident.

I blame the driver of that dozer as an individual. I hold no one else accountable for what he did.

86. kraant - 4 September 2007

From the last thread… The question on how scoop got started. I can answer this because I was there, kinda.

Rusty started it as a hobby with the approval of his work as a new attempt at a community rating system to address the percieved inadequacies of the slashdot rating system, the hosted if for a while until it got too big and got its own servers and started being supported

kos hired rusty as a consultant to set up dailykos as a scoop system.


The scoop rating system was never designed to be used with an autoban… autoban is pure evil, it makes the ratings far more important than merely a community vote on what’s so far out there (like spam) that it should be censored, and thus making people who post that sort of thing get bored and go away since they post and it disappears.

(Hyperbole warning) Watching TU try and game the autoban is like watching a beautifully designed piece of machinery being used as an instrument of torture.


87. Intermittent Bystander - 4 September 2007

83 – Holy Blog Implosion, Devore!

The Big Orange Balloon is leaking starlets by the hour.

Did you czech the poll?

Is the Pony/Pie/Hide rating system too cutsie?

What’s your starter UID? 😉

88. marisacat - 4 September 2007

well kraant (and btw, hello!) thanks for the info on scoop…

re autoban

wilfred and I were individually banned, wilfred for speaking about Dana/DHinMI and me for questioning someone’s fuck buddy, GregNYC. I am sure we did other things too.

Kos directly banned Madman – came into a thread and lost it (Madman dared challenge the Kos daddy figures, Tester and Webb and the ilk)

so, more is evil than “auto ban”… just had to be said.

89. Miss Devore - 4 September 2007

87–missed the ratings system.

I once czeched out a hilarious book on cockroaches–the visual of a cockroach’s family tree was hysterical–imagine hundreds of lines in the brackets. that’s the way it is with blogs now.

90. liberalcatnip - 4 September 2007

Craig not resigning? Hilarious. Make your party squirm there, Craig.

91. marisacat - 4 September 2007

finding the Clarkson thread interesting…

Hillary needs to send irishwitch a cheque.

92. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 September 2007

I listened to a brief interview w/ one of the Little Rock Nine today … combining it with the interview Marisacat excerpted above resulted in me posting “Fifty Years” over at LSF.

93. dkosser - 4 September 2007

89 MD

re:cockroach blogs

(excerpted from a diary)

Eye like those three inch cockroaches you see scurrying along Broadway, or down in the subway. They rock! Nuclear holocaust survivors those are.

Course, if you think about it, those big cockroaches that’ll survive a nulear holocaust will evolve into intelligent creatures one day. With man and other large mammals no longer around, they’ll be free to chart an evolutionary course that could possibly lead to cockroach computer programmers and cockroach blogs…ie. dailycockroach.

perhaps we are them…..

howzabout marisacockroach!….haha!

94. marisacat - 4 September 2007

the mad christians have arrived at peeder’s. And yes phelps is her first comment.

95. kraant - 4 September 2007



Well, yeah… Having to ban people for things other than spam and the like indicates a failure in resolving the issues through more just means, but it’s not personal to me. People ban each other from forums on the net all the time on all sortsa web-apps.

I didn’t help design those technological means of banning. I did help (not in a big way, but I was in there mixing it up as it was being designed) design that rating system.

Anyway, when it’s a hand ban it’s on the heads of those who do the banning alone. I don’t feel quite so complicit in the event, although it still hits me. There’s plenty of people who’ve gotten auto-banned where I feel guilty just thinking that if only I’d been there mixing it up trying and resolve the conflict I could have averted it. (This is probably unhealthy since I can’t be on the net 24/7 just to muck around blogging.)

The scoop ratings system was never meant to be turned into the Stanford Prison Experiment.



*weeps bitter bitter tears*

😛 :/

96. kraant - 4 September 2007

That last smiley isn’t supposed to be a poking out tongue, it was supposed to be “:” “P” tongue hanging out side of mouth hangdog expression… Sorry! :/

97. StupidAsshole - 4 September 2007

88: I and all the others who were kicked off the site alongside me for taking down jhritz/slouise (TeresainPA, Mattes, Petronella, Beach, Howardx, Juniperlea, etc.) were banned by the admins, not autobanned. I suspect that the admins are responsible for far more bannings than the “community” moderation system (which, of course is not to say that the latter doesn’t enforce orthodoxy in the most destructive way).

Btw, jhritz (and her previous incarnation as slouise) appears to have some kind of “in” with the admins, or at least with some of them (I suspect some of them know one another from the Clark campaign or whatever); so I think they were pretty peeved at us for putting them in a corner where they had to ban her (by keeping harping on the fact that she was literally threatening to shoot people and that she was a “zombie”). I’m sure she’ll be back under a new moniker, though, and that Hunter et al. will turn a big blind eye.

98. marisacat - 4 September 2007


well I am opposed to ratings. Even so called funsy wunsy ratings like Msoc and peeder’s place (uh I won’t be using the “6”).

I see it all as herding and manufacturing whatever is the local accepted propaganda.

ratings for a whole host of reasons was destructive to the Dkos site. But really, who cares. kos and the fealty to a corrupt party did more.

99. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 September 2007

Keith’s special comment tonight.

100. marisacat - 4 September 2007

LOL StupidAsshole.

Sounds like slouise is the new petey. Of earlier fame, dissolute behavior and known to the admins/FPers. DH, Trapper John and others.

101. StupidAsshole - 4 September 2007

I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the “Phelps” poster and the other wacky Christians on PFF, together with the people who get off on posting “Niggers!” on there, are loyal “Kossacks” who find the idea of a censorship-free site somehow threatening.

102. marisacat - 4 September 2007

92 – dkosser

I know you are trying… trying…

103. marisacat - 4 September 2007

well people got more upset over the word “nigger”, even peeder stpped in with an advisory to the poster… not too much interest in a woman upended.

Watching the passing parade, is all.

Someone needs to start posting fetish photos to do with scat. I vote for mastication there of.

Really why stop.

104. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 September 2007
105. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 September 2007
106. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 September 2007

Cindy is up at After Downing Street:

In a recent op-ed for The Weekly Standard, Mr. Kristol makes many more tactical and fundamental errors. The ANSWER coalition is calling for mass mobilizations begining the week (Sept. 15) that the White House authored Petraeus report on the surge is due. Members of Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW), who are leading the September 15th march, are calling for a “die-in” to end the march and begin the rally. The vets, unlike the chicken-hawk neocons, have actually served in war, particularly the one that Mr. Kristol imagines is such a success. IVAW is asking activists to represent a killed service-member and at an appropriate time lie down. Taps will be played and also a simulated 21-gun salute. It sounds respectful to me, being the mom of one of the soldiers, and I will proudly, yet sorrowfully, be lying down for my son that day. Many of the march/rally participants will be “dying” to represent the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who have been killed for Mr. Kristol’s deceptions.

Mr. Kristol calls on the “honorable” members of the anti-war movement to denounce the die-in and lumps MoveOn.org with other organizers of the die-in. MoveOn is not associated with the die-in as they do not support non-violent, direct civil disobedience. (Madman: no, all MoveON supports is their owners, the Donklephant Party) What I find so amusing is that Mr. PNAC-Fox News-Chicken-hawk has made himself the judge of what is honorable.

Mr. Kristol has a problem with the anti-war movement using the names of the fallen without the permission of the families. No one got my permission when my sons portrait was used in the pro-war memorial at Arlington Cemetery. Casey’s name and likeness has been used by pro-war people all over the nation without my permission. Why is that okay, Mr. Kristol? I know for a fact such memorials as Arlington West, Eyes Wide Open and our memorial at Camp Casey would remove names of soldiers at the next of kin’s request. If any family member so requests, I am sure IVAW will do the same thing—but a word of caution:

Even though the members of IVAW (all my adopted sons and daughters) have a big problem with the occupation of Iraq and with the Bush crime family, they served their country honorably (unlike Mr. Kristol) and they all fought side-by-side with the fallen. They love their brothers and sisters and they would themselves have died to take the place of any one of them. Do not, never, ever, claim that we families, or the Iraq Vets are dishonoring our sons and daughters killed by the lies of The Weekly Standard, Fox News, BushCo., et al. That is the biggest lie of all, or maybe it’s this one that Mr. Kristol told on March 1, 2003:

“Very few wars in American history were prepared better or more thoroughly than this one by this president.”

I would laugh if I weren’t crying so hard.

If Mr. Kristol gets his PNAC way, by this time next year, we will need a lot more people at a die-in.

107. wilfred - 4 September 2007

Frightening thing on ABC Primetime tonight. A show which shows all these videos where people die in police custody yet ABC takes the stance that it’s never the police’s fault. They just glorify fascism and after that PBS things last night you can see the media is going full force to corral the growing unease in the population. Such collusion between media, corporations and govt.

108. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

Similarly, the UN partition plan was not between “Jews” and “Palestinians”, it was between a Jewish-led state with equal rights for Arabs and an Arab-only state where Jews were to be forbidden.

Keith Mooh, Why must you continue to lie? It really doesn’t take very long to check these things out and it only makes you look dishonest.

The Arabs in Israel proper were under a military government from 1948 to 1967. They had no civil rights and no right to vote.


Martial Law (1949-1966) While most Arabs who remained inside what became Israel were granted citizenship, this population was subject to a number of controlling measures that amounted to martial law.[33] This required that they apply for permission from the military governor to travel more than a given distance from their registered residence. It also included the use of curfew, administrative detentions, expulsions, and other activities. A variety of legal measures in effect during this period facilitated the transfer of land abandoned by Arabs to state ownership. These included the Absentee Property Law of 1950 which allowed the state to take control of land belonging to land owners who emigrated to other countries, and the Land Acquisition Law of 1953 which authorized the Ministry of Finance to transfer expropriated land to the state. Other common legal expedients included the use of emergency regulations to declare land belonging to Arab citizens a closed military zone, followed by the use of Ottoman legislation on abandoned land to take control of the land.[34] In 1965, the first attempt was made to stand an independent Arab list for Knesset elections, with the radical group al-Ard forming the United Arab List. The list was, however, banned by the Israeli Central Elections Committee. In 1966, martial law was lifted completely, and the government set about dismantling most of the discriminatory laws, while Arab citizens were, theoretically if not always in practice, granted the same rights as Jewish citizens.[35]

109. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

Translation: Arabs left in Israel proper were denied full citizenship until enough land could be taken from them.

This is well documented and no reputable Arab or Israeli scholar (and by reputable I don’t mean Joan Peters or Daniel Pipers) will contradict it.

110. Intermittent Bystander - 4 September 2007

My head is officially spinning.

Senator Busted-in-a-Bathroom is tormenting the GOP. NeoKong and phelps are conferring beneath a giant Liberace portrait, while BeverlyCWA descends on fleshfeast with a save-the-babies broom. On the Bus is back from Burning Man with photos of people wearing clothes, but Julius Seegirls is unlikely to notice, being so busy with bananas, and all. Everyone’s blowing poison darts or bubbly kisses or projectile vomit across the blogostratosphere.

I can no longer see the forest for the treehouses. And the splatter.

But at least a testy chihuaha avoided certain doom when its keeper hemorrhaged money to get the troubling toenails clipped.

On that note, congrats to all for the mayhem. Over and out!

111. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

So Clarkson’s diary about Hillary never made the rec list. That’s like the first Clarkson diary not to make the rec list, isn’t it?

112. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

Mr. Kristol calls on the “honorable” members of the anti-war movement to denounce the die-in


113. Sabrina Ballerina - 4 September 2007

Kraant ‘the Stanford Experiment’ – yes, that’s exactly what it reminds me of, and it’s revealing who gets off on using it that way. The women FPers eg, of course a few or at least one was chosen because they were into that kind of control freakiness.

The whole site is about control and it’s bursting at the seams now with frustrated members, still attached either because of a long-held belief that they now realize never existed, that it was truly a ‘people-powered movement’ and they still cling to that belief, or because of indoctrination and a reluctance to try something new.

But there now escape valves, for the first time, and you could see it at peeder’s place, the relief, people were able to speak out about how they felt. And now there’s Buhdy’s new blog. (Heard about that a few weeks ago but I wasn’t sure about it so didn’t bother to mention it). And I think there will be more.

It looks like DK’s days are numbered. They cannot stop being what and who they are, and it’s not as if they haven’t heard it enough times by now. The only way they could survive imo, is to get rid of the worst offenders who are part of the administration there, but that would include kos himself. So it won’t be happening.

StupidAsshole, I agree with you re the posters, like ‘Phelps’ . I thought from the beginning they were from DK. The angry HIV man, eg, arrived right after a discussion on ‘Aids Denial’ and it was suggested in a DK that someone challenge them to inject themselves with the virus. And lo and behold, the diary appeared at Pff and the poster never returned. My guess is that HIV man was Dadanation.

Just checked out Buhdy’s place. I wonder will he still post at DK. He was under pressure there for a long time having fought with the Elise/DhinMi/MissLaura contingency. Apparently got a warning. Elise who screams ‘sexism’ every chance she gets, was also involved in Peeder’s leaving. How stupid to let a woman like that loose, but then kos is not known for his intellect. He chooses these needy, ego-maniacal individuals to do his dirty work for him, that would be, to get rid of ‘lefties’. They are merely tools with a need to be made to feel important. I feel sorry for them in a way. Otoh, I like most people, detest bullies.

The influx of righties at peeders, if it is from DK, will not work. They tend to think everyone is as insulated as they are from the real world. As thin-skinned. I think it’s interesting to watch how little it is bothering people except for a few . You can choose to engage them or ignore them. This is a concept kossacks simply cannot grasp. They must control the environment.

Meantime, beyond the blogs, the country is going to hell. I am glad that Craig is giving them a hard time. I bet they knew all about him and ignored it until it became public. Same as with Foley, and Vitter and on and on. It should not be made easy for the hypocrites. Let them live publicly with what they accepted privately, yet condemned. So, yes, I hope he stays.

114. Intermittent Bystander - 4 September 2007

Marisacat – I gave one 6 to TheHater. Speaking of eggs, die-ins, and other demonstrations.

That will be it.

115. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 September 2007

Business Owners: Uncle Chertoff’s Newest ICE Agents

I was just emailed, asking for my opinion on the new regulation from Homeland Security that is aimed at employers who receive “no match” letters from the Social Security Administration (SSA). On August 10, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff told reporters that SSA will soon send letters to employers informing them that a name and social security number does not match SSA records.

This move is clearly a punishment by the Bush administration for the failed attempts by Congress to pass a comprehensive “immigration reform” legislation. Under a new rule, employers are automatically deputized as de facto immigration enforcement officers. The policy could drastically lead to an increase in indiscriminate firings by employers if they are unable to resolve the discrepancies. Upon receiving the letter, the new regulation would give employers 90 days to clear up the matter and prove the worker’s name and number match. If the employee is unable to do so, the employer must fire the employee or be deemed to have knowledge that the employee is undocumented and face criminal liability.

He concludes with some predictions of the consequences:

The policy will force employers to keep their employees off the books. It is not a secret, that some employers will find other ways to avoid loss of profits and productivity. In the end, this practice is harmful to state and federal government coffers and will create unfair competition to employers who want to do the “right” thing. Certain employers will see a clear and immediate economic advantage to taking their employees off the books.

As farmer are forced to fire many of their farm hands, farmers are most likely to bear the brunt during the hiring crunch. According to the American Farm Bureau Federation, farmers fear they may have to fire employees, crippling their operations and making it impossible to harvest crops, which could spell financial ruin. So would meatpacking and most food processing. Hotels and restaurants would turn away customers.

A 2003 University of Illinois–Chicago survey of workers affected by no-match letters found that more than half their employers fired workers listed on the letters. Many employers acted without giving workers time to defend themselves and resolve errors, despite explicit warnings from the SSA not to fire employees based solely on the letters.

Homeland Security continues to weaken the rule of law, the no-match letters will erode our civil liberties and essential human needs. In the last past five years, SSA already stepped up its notification of mismatches to employers, sending nearly one million letters to employers, up from fewer than 110,000 sent in previous years. As Chertoff issued it’s final release of the regulation, DHS could now target businesses that did not respond to no-match letters and use those letters as evidence that a company was not complying with immigration law.

Eight million employees will be effected by these letters, which we should expect an immense amount of human suffering in this country. Thousands families would suddenly have no means to buy food, pay rent, clothe their children or send their children to school. Communities already stretched to provide services to currently unemployed workers would have no means to meet this additional need, since undocumented immigrants are ineligible for welfare, food stamps, unemployment insurance, and almost all other public benefits.

We are reaching a point where our own humanity has become so cruel. We cannot allow ourselves to become like the very people who threaten the existence of our life and civilization. We must seek to put the values of life, peace and justice above our desire to destroy. A society cannot exist when the cultures within that society cannot live in harmony with one another.

Sadly, a sizable portion of white society suckles on its hate and fear. We deserve everything coming to us.

116. Intermittent Bystander - 4 September 2007

101 – I’ve got a dollar for that doughnut too.

117. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

Speaking of eggs, William Kristol and Vichy Democrats.

Kristol should be egged. Three eggs verging on rotten along with a ripe tomato or two.

Fom the previous thread, Todd Gitlin, also whining about Answer.

Is there anybody in this world more overdo for a cream pie in the face than Todd Gitlin?

118. kraant - 4 September 2007

Well, I don’t have very good feminist credentials, but I thought an image of men pissing on a woman was a bit much, it’s why I jammed the conversation. The use of the N word didn’t even register in comparison.

Don’t hate me, but I have to admit I like being able to tell feminists that I need to bear their children when they’re taking a misogynist out the back to the woodshed. (kinda subverts the whole thing)

I can see where people are coming from in being against it though. If I really wanted to I could just post saying so, I don’t need the ratings to do it.

I’ve slowly come around to the view of viewing ratings as a shorthand way of saying something. FWIW the consensus view of scoop old handsis pretty much that scoop ratings system are a good way of dealing with spam, flooding, and little else. Probably how they should have been conceived in the first place. Mea Culpa Mea Maxima Culpa… It’s an experiment gone horribly horribly wrong.

Stupid Asshole: Yeah it probably is, the kind of people who obsess about teh roolz are the kind of people who can’t behave without them.

Mariscat: I’m pretty sure peeder is expecting it. The goatse.cx and tubgirl images are legendary. Grab some popcorn and a tub (outch) of icecream, it’s gunna to be a great show. (Don’t mind the aaaartist weeping over the abuse of his art sitting in the corner here.)

119. kraant - 4 September 2007


peeder coined the description of it being the Stanford Prison Experiment back during the unpleasantness with slouise IIRC.

120. Intermittent Bystander - 4 September 2007

SB – You can choose to engage them or ignore them. This is a concept kossacks simply cannot grasp.

Someone should needlepoint that on a pillow and sell it at the auction for next year’s Netroots Nation.

MCat – Your coprophagia photo idea is positively Divine.

kraant – Sympathies and thanks for all the fish.

121. liberalcatnip - 4 September 2007

My latest: Barak Contemplates Collective Punishment

Time to catch up here.

122. marisacat - 4 September 2007


LOL not against anything. Tho the site is long over due for some “icky” and uncomfortable for supposed straight men, gay sex photos. SOmething really cringe making.

Lots of women don’t bother to say much as that (“prude” or ”opposed” to something, usually not what they said originally) is the slam. Siegel several comments ago descended to very cruel parody. Oh well. Unfortunately he was given the ammunition. he took it and is running iwth it.

I do wonder that peeder hiccuped at golden showers mixed iwth nigger, is all.

Did I participate in the emotional pain marathons across BlogFormerlyPolticalDiscussionLand as they proliferated (heavily populated iwth women)? No.

Surely not. they slightly horrified me and certainly helped change the subject.

Politics is pretty much a lost cause, so no surprise.

All I contributed to one diary ws the story of a friend. 3 small children, one a nursing baby. Late in the evening, all children clean, ready for bed, and fed. His dinner on the table. In he comes drunk. Slapped her across the room with the baby going with her.

I have a smart friend however. she waited til he passed out. Got a big big botlle of frozen coke. You can guess the rest. She left iwth the children, called his mother and told her to come get her son.

he died a few years ago. But the 25 or so in between, he was never the same.

Doesn’t have much to do with what is happening at peeder’s. I think living in SF I have seen it all, kind of boring.

I don’t consider myself a feminist. A humanist tho.

123. Madman in the Marketplace - 4 September 2007

Wilfred just let me know new Annie Lennox is coming out October 2nd. and sent me a video. You can see the video here or an alternate place here (in case one goes down). Lyrics are here.

I love Annie.

124. marisacat - 4 September 2007

121 IB

oh I had forgotten that. I saw Pink Flamingoes here when it came out. I was never so happy to have eye lids as at that …

Actually the chicken kill during a fuck session was the hardest (to look at). But other than that …

what a hoot!

125. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

That Enders article at PFF reminded me of Tony Judt’s famous article “The Country that Wouldn’t Grow up”.

First lets take Enders.


The World attitudes toward Israel are rather easy to explain. Most of the World is underdeveloped, poor, and just plain not in good shape. Naturally they despise the few prosperous nations like US. Most of the Arab world is underdeveloped, poor, tyrannical, and completely incompetent. Israel has no oil, yet is a prospering developed nation built up from nothing on a patch of desert and has defeated numerous bastards.

Now what does this sound like? Let’s take Tony Judt.


Seen from the outside, Israel still comports itself like an adolescent: consumed by a brittle confidence in its own uniqueness; certain that no one “understands” it and everyone is “against” it; full of wounded self-esteem, quick to take offense and quick to give it. Like many adolescents Israel is convinced – and makes a point of aggressively and repeatedly asserting – that it can do as it wishes, that its actions carry no consequences and that it is immortal.

126. marisacat - 4 September 2007

btw, for mattes and Marie … and whomever else…

A reader sent this last night:

There is a good archive of Billmon’s site @

It can be searched using Google “Advanced Search”.

I have not had a chance to look at it, but it might have more / other than the other archive.

and the reader sent an interesting comment, made in Dec 2006 at Dkos. Kaleidoscope outed Billmon, and shortly thereafter he shut (email said 10 days later, iirc).

Now, I knew that billmon had been outed (full name and which brokerage he worked at) by a rightie site. So not sure what her outing had to do with anything. But in terms of him being outed at Dkos, at a highly read [cough choke strangle] liberal site.. looks like kaleidsocope did it.


A Break? (0 / 0)

He was “on leave” for a fucking month. I have my SEP IRA with ————–.
Whenever I go in to the local office to move money around, I tell them to
read their co-worker’s stuff. They look at me like I’m nuts. Who gives a
shit what ————- says?

This aggression will not stand, man.

by kaleidescope on Tue Dec 19, 2006 at 06:57:58 PM PDT
[ Parent ]


I suspect she still posts at DKos. Gotta love that DKos.

One reason who fucks (in all senses of the word) who in BlogSnottery ends up being of at least some interest.

127. liberalcatnip - 4 September 2007

Ender – the banned right-wing tool that dkos just loves to keep around. Other people on the left? Not so much.

128. liberalcatnip - 4 September 2007

Like many adolescents Israel is convinced – and makes a point of aggressively and repeatedly asserting – that it can do as it wishes, that its actions carry no consequences and that it is immortal.

Sounds just like some of the adolescent manboyz at pff and the BBBs.

129. It’s a hot night.. « Marisacat - 4 September 2007

[…] BTW, that does not look like a Baretta to me.  I am sure Divine had other persuasions… 😉  Thanks to Intermittent Bystander for reminding me […]

130. Hair Club for Men - 4 September 2007

Isn’t there something simultaneously disgusting and ridiculous to say “oh those Palestinians just hate us because they’re poor”.

And to continue the adolscent analogy. The Rachel Corrie Pancake Jokes (one of which you’ll find in the Enders thread) what do they remind you of?

Does anybody remember that little kid in high school who figured out how to turn his eyelids inside out and how it gave him power to gross people out?

Ooo look at me, I’m turning my eyelids inside out. I took a bite out of the frog in biology class. I like to chew my food and spit it up inside my hand and “show” people at lunchtime in the cafeteria.

131. marisacat - 4 September 2007

new thread…


132. Marie - 4 September 2007

re: #106 billmon – the billmon outing comment is very odd. How evil does someone have to be to first out an anonymous blogger at his place of employment (didn’t look as if it was merely an attempt to confirm a suspicion about his identity – it had a threatening edge to it) and follow that up by outing him on a website? He hadn’t hidden the fact that he was a liberal working for “the man.” Outing him served no purpose.

After reading the comment went back to the Wiki entry on him because Smith-Barney didn’t seem right from when I read that entry several months ago. Not that I attached any particular relevance to that information – with few exceptions, there are few differences among the big brokerage houses, all are essentially rightwing. Anyway, his Wiki entry now includes only his name as billmon and no identifying personal info. Same thing with the first couple of pages of a google search.

From that I would conclude that the man paid a price for blogging. That horrible person that outed him jeopardized his career, his family’s livelihood and his avocation. Far less important but meaningful to some of us, that person silenced a voice that people valued. Hopefully, the formal price he paid was no more than being required to cease blogging. But one’s career is never the same after “the man” puts a black mark by your name, regardless of your value work to the organization.

133. marisacat - 4 September 2007


I don’t agree with what kaleidoscope did. But as I mentioned Billmon was outed on at least one Rightie site. I don’t know how widespread it was… I never followed up.

Well a lot of BlogBitchosphere screamed at me for months. For things I did not do. Fine, I lobbed it back.

Did Kos care that his so called friend ws outed?

Guess not.

134. liberalcatnip - 4 September 2007

Learn something new every day. I didn’t know Billmon had been outed.

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