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Oh… call it the clenched, upraised fist thread… ;) 17 September 2007

Posted by marisacat in Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Viva La Revolucion!, WAR!.

     civil rights era pin...





1. Hair Club for Men - 17 September 2007
2. Hair Club for Men - 17 September 2007

From the previous thread.

McVeigh, exactly. From what i Read he never shut his eyes in the death chamber. The CCTV was run from a camera directly over him. he stared into it. Think Vidal wrote that…

McVeigh also read “Invictus” as his last statement. Never expressed any regret.

But neither did Madeline Albright.

3. Madman in the Marketplace - 17 September 2007

For Kansas Abortion Doctor, Pressure Mounts

Antiabortion activists in Kansas are stepping up a campaign to drive one of the nation’s last late-term abortion providers out of business.

Dr. George Tiller, who draws patients from across the country to his Wichita clinic, faces trial next month on 19 misdemeanor counts. The charges – which he vigorously disputes – accuse him of aborting viable fetuses without first consulting an independent physician as required by state law.

Each count carries a penalty of up to a year in jail. If convicted, Tiller could also lose his medical license.

His opponents aren’t waiting for the outcome of the trial.

This month, the antiabortion group Kansans for Life submitted nearly 8,000 signatures to Sedgwick County District Court in Wichita, calling for a grand jury to review Tiller’s handling of late-second- and third-trimester abortions. Tiller’s lawyers appealed to federal court to block the grand jury, calling it a “vigilante effort,” but were rebuffed last week. State law allows citizens to force the seating of a grand jury.

At the Capitol, meanwhile, a committee controlled by antiabortion lawmakers held a two-day hearing this month to lay the groundwork for tougher restrictions on abortion. Among the witnesses: a woman who said Tiller rushed her into an abortion at the end of her second trimester without counseling, informed consent or a second opinion because she had arrived late for her appointment at the clinic. State officials said they might investigate those claims.

“This is the beginning of the end for Tiller,” said Troy Newman, president of Operation Rescue, a Wichita-based antiabortion group.

Kansas law requires any physician who performs an abortion at or after 22 weeks’ gestation to first determine whether the fetus is viable, meaning it could survive outside the womb. Aborting a viable fetus is permitted only if two doctors certify that continuing the pregnancy could kill the woman or cause her “substantial and irreversible” harm to “a major bodily function.” Tiller has reported aborting more than 2,600 viable fetuses since the law took effect in 1998.

His attorneys and supporters say Tiller has done nothing wrong. And some of his patients, expressing deep gratitude for his work, have shared their stories.

At AHeartbreakingChoice.com, several women explain why they traveled to Wichita to abort much-wanted pregnancies, long after they had decorated nurseries and chosen baby names.

“The scan showed that her little brain was severely calcified,” one wrote.

“She would have required a minimum of three surgeries to even enable her to take her first breath,” another said.

The women write that they were well into the second half of their pregnancies, some into the third trimester, before the fetal defects were diagnosed. “I loved and wanted my baby very much,” one wrote. “I loved her so much that I would rather her go back to God than suffer for even one day.”

Tiller also accepts some late-term patients with healthy fetuses. Among them, he has said, have been girls as young as 10, rape victims, alcoholics, drug addicts, and women who were suicidal or depressed or who feared their relatives would harm them if they continued the pregnancy. Tiller has said a few of his patients were just a week or two from their due dates.

4. Revisionist - 17 September 2007

got to giggle…

AP – Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox plans to resign as John McCain’s state campaign chairman, according to two top Republicans who asked not to be identified because Cox has not yet spoken with McCain in person.

lol… but its on the wires

5. moiv - 17 September 2007

Some of Dr. Tiller’s colleagues call him “St. George” for a reason. As the saga drags on, Operation Rescue continues to rally the troops.

This kind of siege is again becoming commonplace — not only in Aurora and in Wichita, but all across the country. Meanwhile, we’re supposed to fall into line behind “safe, legal and rare.”

6. antihegemonic - 17 September 2007

Elise serves as a whore for the corpraCRAT Barack H. Obama.


Obama did something “real,” according to the out of touch Elise.

Pauline Beck was “real” and they spent the day doing “real” things.

How would Elise know? Her reality is the one s/he simulates on Daily Kos. And Obama’s only reality is the one his wife created while rubbing elbows with WalMart affiliates.

Notice how Elise, a paid Obama operative, is so ready to accuse others of that which she disavows about herself:


Someone needs to out her.

7. BooHooHooMan - 17 September 2007

I wonder how the country would have responded if Bill Clinton said after Gulf Vet McVeigh and Army Bud bombed Oklahoma City :

” We are going to hunt down and kill every one of these ideological Right Wing terrorists in our midsts. They often are funded by charity front organizations and we are going to go after them too. CIA operatives vetted for their loyalty to this Administration will begin rendering their ass to torture right off the back nine down before they’re headed down to Guantanamo indefinitely. Either you’re with us or against us.”

Then if he was really skilled, he would incentivize parts of the mil to liquidate ideological adversaries from within…

Sure is same shit different polarity but I think the wingers have been far more skilled in incenting coconspirators —co-opting Dems for example. It is funny the wingers stack every job slot from school board janitor through to Chief justice of the Supreme Court.

OTOH “the Left has “UserID” “mojo” and “TU” on Markos blog.LOL

8. marisacat - 17 September 2007


and when I say rare i do mean rare. — Hillary.

And I always get a vision of a baby turning on a spit over the fire.

She is a very strange woman.

If she does go in, and right now I dont think it is certain yet… but if she does, that is it:

“relief valve”. Take the edge off – for a bit.

i always find it interesting that she and Bill think they have nullified the hard right


9. antihegemonic - 17 September 2007


Elise, an operative who has attended Camp Obama and Camp Wellstone, claims the two are the same. Imagine sharing a sleeping bag with Elise.

Just imagine.

10. marisacat - 17 September 2007

LOL Elise seems to be a rather simple girl. To be blunt.

11. antihegemonic - 17 September 2007

I agree. Where do they find these people? She is disgusting.

12. BooHooHooMan - 17 September 2007

Despite beinganti hegemonic, you really are freakin me out before bedtime with the Elise in the Sleeping bag hegemony 😀 LOL

13. BooHooHooMan - 17 September 2007

God, imagine all the wieners the camp went through..

14. Shadowthief - 17 September 2007

Marisacat, stop making me “Elise” my Diet Soda, please…

It takes a village to cook a child?

Serena Joy is mad as a hatter, Marisacat. There’s definitely something “off” about her. Romney’s got the glint in his eyes, as well.

Lunatics vying to be made head of the asylum, the pair of them.

President Hillary Serena Joy Clinton will patiently–or perhaps not so patiently explain–why she’s terribly sorry, but the Blackwater mercenaries had to use machine guns to mow down all of those demonstrators in (insert name of city where you live) to keep LAW AND ORDER. WE MUST HAVE LAW AND ORDER.

Her husband’s statement after the Oklahoma City bombing, in an interview with Steve Croft of “60 Minutes”:

…it seems almost certain now that this is “home-grown
terrorism”; that the enemy is, in fact, within. How do we respond
to that?

Well, we have to arrest the people who did it, we have to put
them on trial, we have to convict them and punish them. I
certainly believe that they should be executed…

…Are we Americans going to have to give up some of our
liberties in order better to combat terrorism? Both from overseas
and here?

Mike, I don’t think we have to give up our liberties, but I do
think we have to have more discipline. And we have to be willing
to see serious threats to our liberties properly investigated. I
have sent a “counter-terrorism” piece of legislation to Capitol
Hill, which I hope Congress will pass. And after consultation
with the attorney general and the FBI director and others, I’m
going to send some more legislation to Congress to ask them to
give the FBI and others more power to crack these terrorist
networks — both domestic and foreign.

And so it began.

Pay close attention to whom Serena Joy chooses as her Minister for Internal Security, aka Attorney General. That person will be in charge of distributing jackboots and truncheons.

As for the Kosswhackians: Most of them betray a suburbanite mentality. You’d never know Kos, for example, lives in Berkeley: he may as well live in some hick town in Kentucky. It’s some sort of sick joke that Kos lives in a centre of lefty liberalism, I’m sure. He’s out of place there as I would be performing in a ballet recital (FYI, I do wear a leotard and tutu, but strictly for comfort around the house).

15. Sabrina - 17 September 2007

From the last thread:

The lies, the ordinary people who walked to the political headquarters of Aznar’s party and stood in the square…

That was inspirational. Millions just seemed to go out in the streets spontaneously and demand that they not be lied to! I kept a newspaper photo of them for a long time, to remind myself that I had once hoped it would happen here.

It reminded me of Venezuela after the people found out about the coup!

We are missing something here, I don’t know what it is. Maybe the country is just too big.


Anti, as marisicat said, elise is a bit limited in the thinking department. If she is an operative for Obama, she needs to reveal that. I thought they had some kind of ‘rule’ about it. Of course she may have, I haven’t been there for a while.

They are going to end up with no one on that blog by the time the primaries are over. I can’t figure out why it’s so important to fight so hard for any candidate. Unless, as you say, you’re being paid to do so. But then, being a horror of a bully doesn’t do the candidate much good.

Earth to Obama, elise will turn more people away then you can afford right now! Lol! Someone needs to tell him. Three people who would be the death of any campaign, DHinMi, MissLaura and Elise. A few others I can think of also.

16. Shadowthief - 17 September 2007

Hm, I thought it was illegal to use the US military for domestic law enforcement? Well, if the President does it, it can’t be illegal. I learned that from Richard Nixon:


Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release April 20, 1993


The Rose Garden

Q Can you describe what she told you on Sunday about the nature of the operation and how much detail you knew about it?

The third question I asked was, has the military been consulted? As soon as the initial tragedy came to light in Waco, that’s the first thing I asked to be done, because it was obvious that this was not a typical law enforcement situation. Military people were then brought in, helped to analyze the situation and some of the problems that were presented by it. And so I asked if the military had been consulted. The Attorney General said that they had, and that they were in basic agreement that there was only one minor tactical difference of opinion between the FBI and the military — something that both sides thought was not of overwhelming significance.

Q Can you address the widespread perception — reported widely, television, radio and newspapers — that you were trying somehow to distance yourself from this disaster?

I will say this, however. I was, frankly, surprised would be a mild word, to say that anyone that would suggest that the Attorney General should resign because some religious fanatics murdered themselves. (Applause.)

I regret what happened, but it is not possible in this life to control the behavior of others in every circumstance. These people killed four federal officials in the line of duty. They were heavily armed. They fired on federal officials yesterday repeatedly, and they were never fired back on. We did everything we could to avoid the loss of life. They made the decision to immolate themselves. And I regret it terribly, and I feel awful about the children.

Well, 79 people were killed, 21 of them children, but Clinton only feels bad about the 21 children. Bugger the 58 adults. And Clinton feels “awful” about the children but, you know, they had to be killed to protect them from abuse by those weird cultists who have sex with women to whom they’re not married.

We can’t have that.

17. Marie - 17 September 2007

Have to wonder if paid operatives at dKos are worth the money. They take up space and oxygen but doubt they are effective at influencing anybody. Nothing but a bunch of choirs all singing to themselves. Soto is falling into the same trap with Jeff and himself carry the Hillary banner (he always has appallingly bad taste when he chooses to support a candidate – not talking out of school, have already said it to him – he does some good analyses but then draws conclusions not supported by his analysis.)

Maybe this country needs a really good depression to take our minds off all this stupid crap that we fight endlessly about. When nobody can afford to feed another mouth, abortion will be a socially responsible act. Of course all when all the violent, white authoritarian men are hungry they’ll be even more dangerous. That might move me to support getting guns and take them out,

There will be no winner in ’08. It’s all so banal. Just like Alexis Debat proved to be (and I had such high hopes that this was a big, interesting story). My write-up, very boring because it was the only way to fit all the pieces together– is at TLC.

18. Revisionist - 17 September 2007

how can sudi women drive in those damn burkas…. i am not being snarky either. you cant safely drive thru a 1 inch slit

19. antihegemonic - 17 September 2007


I believe you are write. There are no winners in 2008. Look at the results of this Rasmussen poll:


More people are prepared to vote against than to vote for any of the frontrunners.

20. Shadowthief - 17 September 2007

Rev, you know damned well that Saudi women aren’t allowed to drive.

21. Shadowthief - 17 September 2007

Re: Elise as a paid political operative.

Well, she DID claim she’d found a “promising job lead”.

Guess this is it.

I think she’s working for the Clinton campaign, myself.

Elise: I’m an Obama supporter!

Everybody else: You know, that Clinton doesn’t seem SO bad.

The old reverse psychology ploy.

22. Revisionist - 17 September 2007

wanted to share this site http://dailygrail.com/

i dont read all the kooky stuff but just the daily news briefs… the guy does a good compilation of science news IMO.

23. Marie - 17 September 2007

#15 – Sabrina – no rule about covert ops at dKos. In fact Kos coddled those like DH and was uninterested when I suggested a community standard on this that ops should disclose that information (only party affilition , who they support for POTUS , and that they work on the inside — wasn’t even demanding that they disclose their identity or who they work for unless it is a POTUS candidate then the disclosure is relevant.

How did those in Spain organize? Probably their cell phones and internet which may be more technologically advanced than what we have here. We have all the tools necessary to mobilize within twenty-four hours but we don’t have the will.

24. antihegemonic - 17 September 2007

Is not Kos’s paid work for Dean a subject of journalism these days? Francis Holland has covered all the damaging news reports on Kos’s venality. Holland also has found a homophobic piece Kos published in 1993.

25. Revisionist - 17 September 2007

ST — thats one of todys stories, Suadi Woman are petitioning the king. I think Pickles even made a statement.

26. antihegemonic - 17 September 2007

I have a question: since when has Chris Bowers become Mr. Open Left? Was he not the one who said he would rather have a standard Democrat in the Senate than Bernie Sanders? Where do these guys get off?

27. moiv - 17 September 2007

Thanks for the link, Rev. And don’t be dissin’ that kooky stuff, especially when it makes sense. 😉

28. marisacat - 17 September 2007

LOL well a-hegemonic…

there is a bit of whiff off Francis Holland himself.

29. Shadowthief - 17 September 2007

Rev–They have petitioned in the past and been turned down. Last petition drive was in 2005 and they got turned down flat. The prince in charge of such matters said dismissively, “We have other priorities. This is not a concern of ours.”

Also, Saudi women still cannot go out in public without being accompanied by a male relative.

30. antihegemonic - 17 September 2007


I agree: Holland is a Hill-shill. But one has to hand it to him for all the work he has done on Markos. I personally find it hysterical.

31. Shadowthief - 17 September 2007

Once in awhile, the good guys win one:

The school’s chancellor flies east to re-recruit the legal scholar, whom he had earlier fired.
By Garrett Therolf and Richard C. Paddock, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
September 18, 2007
UC Irvine’s chancellor tried to salvage the reputation of his fledgling law school Monday by announcing that he had reinstated Erwin Chemerinsky as its founding dean, but his own troubles persisted as faculty members continued to question why he had sacked the liberal scholar and contemplated taking action against their university’s leader.

The agreement with Chemerinsky, made five days after the deanship was rescinded, came after Chancellor Michael V. Drake and his wife flew to Durham, N.C., over the weekend so the two men could speak face to face.

In a conference call with reporters, the chancellor and new dean agreed that Chemerinsky would enjoy absolute academic freedom and would continue to write opinion articles on a wide range of issues, not just legal education as Drake suggested last week.

“Chancellor Drake reaffirmed in the strongest possible way the academic freedom that I would have, as all deans and faculty members do,” Chemerinsky said. He later noted that he was aware that his role as dean also would require him to build a broad base of support. Before he was ousted, the dean had sought conservatives for some slots on his board of advisors.

From The LA Times.

Looks like those Orange County “John Wayne Republicans” are losing their touch. They got steamrollered by a pantywaist intellectual liberal type.

32. marisacat - 17 September 2007

There were those great women who hauled off one day and drove around a parking lot iirc.

I read the aftermath a year or two later. it did not go well for them at all. And these were “upper class” women with cars and drivers.

33. Shadowthief - 17 September 2007

Re: Holland’s investigations.

They are superfluous.

Anybody who needs further proof beyond what Moulitsas has written on his blog and said in public interviews that he is NOT a political progressive has rocks in their head.

Holland has not convinced anyone who was not already convinced. I’d wager that the vast majority of Kos Kultists are PLEASED with the notion that Il Kosolini is a CIA mole, and agree with his homophobic stand against gays serving openly in the US military.

34. Shadowthief - 17 September 2007

Saudi law is harsh. A British Petroleum employee got 40 lashes (crippling and scarring him for life) for smuggling in a pint of whiskey.

What worries me is that there’s a lot of people in the United States who’d like to import that sort of regime here, Christian instead of Moslem, but no less harsh for all of that.

35. Revisionist - 17 September 2007

moiv — its one of my daily morning reads….but i sense you are into to some of that stuff. a lot of the other stuff aside from the daily news is just people trying to sell books rather than real investigation.

36. marisacat - 17 September 2007

Holland is a diversion, imo. And obsessed, in the sense of anything he directs himself at, Kos, Hillary, Obama.. and so on.


37. antihegemonic - 17 September 2007

It makes sense Kos is a homophobe, although one wonders about him and Jerome Armstrong. And the misogyny: notice how his wife has been relegated to the task of operating Mother Talkers. According to Moulitsas, all women are mothers and talkers. Politics is the realm of men, “straight” men.

38. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

I do enjoy sitting back with an ice-cold Coca Cola™ and watching yet another Elise meltdown in progress before I head off to bed. Beats listening to more OJ shit on CNN.

39. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

Politics is the realm of men, “straight” men.

…who wear, have worn or want to wear combat boots.

40. moiv - 18 September 2007

Rev, 35

They link to all sorts of things, don’t they? This kind of real investigation I do find interesting.

Jessica Utts, professor of statistics at UC Davis, has been one of the few statisticians to work in the field of parapsychology, analyzing data and helping with experimental design. Gathering statistics for parapsychology still uses the same methods, Utts said.

“As a statistician we can work on data in any field and it’s still the same statistical methods,” she said.

Utts earned a bachelor’s degree in math and psychology at the State University of New York at Binghamton in 1973 and a doctorate in statistics from Penn State University in 1978. She has since worked as a professor and statistician at UC Davis, catching a few breaks to work as a visiting professor at Stanford University and as a senior research fellow at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland.

In 1995, Utts was hired by the American Institutes of Research, an independent research firm, along with psychologist Ray Hyman from the University of Oregon to analyze data from a 20-year research program sponsored by the U.S. government to investigate paranormal activity.


The research program involved remote viewing, in which test subjects were asked to describe or draw an unknown target. The target could be anything and could be located anywhere. According to Utts’ meta-analysis of the 966 studies performed at Stanford Research Institute, subjects could identify the target correctly 34 percent of the time. The probability of these results occurring by chance is .000000000043.

Utts compared these results to a similar meta-analysis of aspirin treatment for heart disease. In 2002, researchers published a meta-analysis in the British Medical Journal of 188 studies. The results demonstrated that aspirin reduced the number of heart attacks in people likely to have heart disease by 25 percent, with a probability of it occurring by chance equaling .0003.

“The evidence for [remote viewing] is much stronger than [aspirin preventing heart attacks] and yet we have people taking aspirin everyday to try to prevent heart attacks,” Utts said. “People aren’t willing to either look at this evidence or aren’t willing to believe it when they see it.”

Stanford-based researchers have been studying “remote viewing” for about 30 years now. I wonder why.

41. antihegemonic - 18 September 2007

Elise should keep her mouth shut. But knowing that she has to suck on something, she will keep it open.


I should keep my mouth shut.

I should keep my mouth shut?


42. Marie - 18 September 2007

Now THIS is a good diary. Nothing knew for all you smarties here but it’s got a nice hook.

43. marisacat - 18 September 2007

BTW, link to Marie’s post on Debat at The Left Coaster

44. antihegemonic - 18 September 2007

Britney Spears is Bush’s base, for she is a piece of Southern trailer trash that ran into money.

45. moiv - 18 September 2007

That’s a really good piece, Marie, researched to a fare-thee-well. But you already knew that. 😉

Marisa, I’ve been snared by the filters.

46. moiv - 18 September 2007

43 —

Nonsense. Southern trailer trash so rarely runs into money that there aren’t enough of them to carry two precincts in Tuscaloosa.

47. Sabrina - 18 September 2007

Marie, did you get my email last night? I sent it and it came back (wrong address, my fault). Anyway, I did read the Debat piece. I wouldn’t say it is not interesting although I think those rightwiingers who hired him are more interesting. I was not aware that our ‘liberal’ news media hired people to report on such important matters as foreign policy, especially now, from Rightwing think tanks.

Re Holland, his main problem is his sensational ediitorializing. He has dug up some information that wasn’t out there and that does raise timeline questions re what kos has said publicly and what the facts appear to be. Eg, when he was in the CIA training program. Something doesn’t match there. But he could straighten it out if it was just bad communication skills,

Then there’s the fact that the college records are all back online, except the letter from kos re gays in the military, last I heard. But if he stuck to the imformation, and left the rest to those who read it, he’d be better off.

He has written a few diaries on other topics. One that I liked was about his childhood.

48. Marie - 18 September 2007

Moiv – thanks but I didn’t know it. It was one of two working hypotheses. Antisocial lone wolf or connected with possible antisocial tendencies.

49. Marie - 18 September 2007

Sabrina – no didn’t get your e-mail. Re: Debat – he didn’t work for any rightwing think tanks. That was one of my points. Of course those are of two types: the christian fundamentalist variant that came of age with the Bush Admin. Then the Neo-cons, Heritage, AEI etc. The first will take anybody, but not so with the second, they are fussy. Debat was going for the second but it takes years to build up the proper creds for that and he was still at least two years away from that when he got busted. As he wasn’t actually in, they have nothing to run from, but Debat ain’t ever getting into those circles now. He’ll most likely fade away, back to France for a while then perhaps to the outer reaches of the EU or Turkey. That assumes that he hasn’t found a wealthy sweetie in the US, in that case he’ll stay here in obscurity for a couple of years (he would not be a faithful lover and would quickly become bored).

Re Kos. I find speculation that he’s CIA to be as ridiculous as Debat working for the Penagon. If the agency had had any interest in him at all it would have been covering a central american desk. Detailed office work which Kos isn’t good at. Or perhaps in the legal dept, but my guess is that they have stronger applicants for that. Kos told that story to make himself sound interesting and it allows people to speculate that he could be a spook. Sorry, he’s not smart enough for such a job.

50. frtitzcat - 18 September 2007

Its quarter to three
there’s no one in the place
cept Sabrina and me
So front page this now Peed-
I gotta little picture
I think you should see…

Holden and Bogie
to the end
Chasing Audrey…

Oh when will Marisa’s cats
come and recommend me?

(sung to the tune of an early morning drunken stupor, tie knot loosened, porkpie hat jauntily askew, sport coat slung over shoulder, joint dangling from pursed lips in rueful reflection in a hotel room mirror)

51. frtitzcat - 18 September 2007

Only joking about the “cum” part…


52. frtitzcat - 18 September 2007

Hey now! I think I even got the metre correct! See what having a stern taskmaster at the top will do for you?

53. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Just watched the Kerry tasering video.

People at Kos are defending the cops. That kid wasn’t even really fillibustering. The cops were ready to grab him the moment he stepped up to the mike.

Here’s a pretty typical comment.


Like Jon Stewart told the Code Pink women, “You’re not helping!”

Is there any question the Patriot and Military Commissions acts are going to stay in place under President Hillary (and maybe even be expanded)?

54. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Interesting. LGF “warns” the Daily Kos.


I’m not a 9/11 Truther but it’s interesting that right wing blogs set the terms of the debate and “left wing blogs” seem willing to stick to them.

55. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Actually when you look at that Kerry video again, that kid looks better.

He cites his source (Greg Palast, a no no on the Daily Kos). He holds the book up so people can see who he’s referring to and check it out for themselves. He gets Kerry to acknowledge it.

That kid was guilty in the eyes of the Dkossers of being an awkward 19 year old and having the awkward body language of a 19 year old kid uncomforable in his body.

I know that TV has taught us that 19 year old kids all look as if they’re 30 and handle themselves like seasoned TV actors but that’s not reality. The “reality based community” doesn’t seem to realize this.

56. JJB - 18 September 2007

MCat, no. 8,

and when I say rare i do mean rare. — Hillary.

And I always get a vision of a baby turning on a spit over the fire.

That’s what comes of reading too much Jonathan Swift. 🙂

As to what use Clinton might have made of McVeigh, would that he had started a War On Operation Rescue and all who would march under its banner.

57. JJB - 18 September 2007

Shadowthief, no. 34,

Funny you should mention that, because about 12 years ago when I lived in Delaware, one of the idiots who wrote an opinion column for Wilmington’s incredibly boring daily paper (The News Journal) authored a piece that called for the return of lashing convicts at the whipping post. This punishment had been abolished only in the early 1970s, though by that time it had been 20 years since such a sentence had actually been carried out.

I imagine a lot of people would end up at least tacitly endorsing such a thing if it came to pass.

58. Shadowthief - 18 September 2007

JJB–Not only tacitly endorsing it but selling it on pay-per-view.

I refer everyone to the authority on this subject, which would be a Mr. George C. Carlin and his comedy routine on capital punishment.

don’t forget, the polls show the American people want capital punishment, and they want a balanced budget. And I think even in a fake democracy, people ought to get what they want once in a while. Just to feed this illusion that they’re really in charge. Let’s use capital punishment the same way we use sports and television in this country, to distract people and take their minds off how bad they’re being fucked by the upper one percent. Now, unfortunately, unfortunately Monday Night Football doesn’t last long enough. What we really need is year-round capital punishment on TV every night with sponsors. Gotta have sponsors. I’m sure as long as we’re killing people Marlboro Cigarettes and Dow Chemical would be proud to participate! Proud to participate! Balance the stupid fucking budget!!

And- and let me say this to you my interesting judaeo-christian friends. Not only- not only do I recommend crucifixions, I’d be in favor of bringing back beheadings!! Huh? Beheadings on TV, slow-motion, instant replay? And maybe you could let the heads roll down a little hill. And fall into one of five numbered holes. Let the people at home gamble on which hole the head is going to fall into. And you do it in a stadium so the mob can gamble on it too. Raise a little more money. And if you want to expand the violence a little longer to sell a few more commercials, instead of using an axe, you do the beheadings with a hand saw! Hey, don’t bail out on me now, God damnit! The blood is already on our hands, all we’re talking about is a matter of degree. You want something a little more delicate, we’ll do the beheadings with an olive fork. That would be nice. And it would take a good God damn long time. There’s a lot of good things we could be doing.

When’s the last time we burned someone at the stake? It’s been too long! Here’s another form of capital punishment, comes out of a nice, rich, religious tradition. Burning people at the stake. Sponsor: Bridgeford Charcoal. And you put it on TV on Sunday mornings. The Sunday Morning Evangelical Send Us An Offering Praise Jesus Human Bonfire! You don’t think that would get big ratings? In this sick fucking country?! Shit you’d have people skipping church to watch this stuff! And you take the money they send in and the offerings and you use it to balance the budget.


59. JJB - 18 September 2007

Interesting piece in today’s NY Times re that Israeli raid (if that’s indeed what it was) on Syria 12 days ago:

The Sept. 6 attack by Israeli warplanes inside Syria struck what Israeli intelligence believes was a nuclear-related facility that North Korea was helping to equip, according to current and former American and Israeli officials.

Details about the Israeli assessment emerged as China abruptly canceled planned diplomatic talks in Beijing that were to set a schedule to disband nuclear facilities in North Korea. The Bush administration has declined to comment on the Israeli raid, but American officials were expected to confront the North Koreans about their suspected nuclear support for Syria during those talks.

The American and Israeli officials said the Israeli government notified the Bush administration about the planned attack just before the raid. It is not clear whether administration officials expressed support for the action or counseled against it.

The raid has aroused intense speculation in Washington and Jerusalem, but details remain extraordinarily murky. Officials said access to new intelligence about suspected North Korean support to Syria has been confined to a very small group of officials in Washington and Jerusalem.

The details of the Israeli intelligence remain highly classified, and the accounts about Israel’s thinking were provided by current and former officials who are generally sympathetic to Israel’s point of view. It is not clear whether American intelligence agencies agree with the Israeli assessment about the facility targeted in the raid, and some officials expressed doubt that Syria has either the money or the scientific talent to initiate a serious nuclear program.

But current and former American and Israeli officials who have received briefings from Israeli sources said Monday that the raid was an attempt by Israel to destroy a site that Israel believed to be associated with a rudimentary Syrian nuclear program.

So what do we make of this? I can think of any number of reasons this story was allowed to see the light of day, and haven’t the wherewithal to detail them right now. Still, if this is indeed what is going on, mightn’t it be less dangerous and more according to international law to simply make the suspicions about Syria and North Korea public and demand that inspections take place?

This, combined with France’s recent sabre rattling, lead me to suspect that there is indeed going to be more military action in the ME in the near future, with the US attacking Iran and Israel taking on Syria.

60. JJB - 18 September 2007

Think I’m stuck in spam.

61. JJB - 18 September 2007

Hair Club, no. 53,

I love this unintentionally revealing line in that comment you link to:

Sorry, once that kid mentioned Skull and Bones… (5+ / 0-)

he crossed the realm into tinfoil conspiracy land. Don’t we ban those kinds of people here?

I’m not familiar with this incident, but it sounds like the sort of overreaction that has become SOP for the cops these days. Reminds me of how at one point during the 1968 campaign when Ed Muskie was being heckled by anti-war demonstrators chanting slogans that made it difficult for him to be heard, he turned to them and said that if they’d nominate one or two of their number to state their position, he’d be happy to give them a microphone and answer whatever questions they had for him, or to debate them. The demonstrators did in fact do this, and they ended up having what the press covering the campaign described as an lively and enlightening session. No one’s mind was changed, but the response to this was overwhelmingly positive (a lengthy report on the incident aired on the CBS Evening News that night ), and such give-and-take discussions became a staple of Muskie’s campaign appearances. And mind you, this was only a few months after Bobby Kennedy had been assassinated, so a person in Muskie’s position could have been excused for believing that such behavior on their part could end with them being killed. I think the difference between now and then can be very nicely demonstrated by contrasting those incidents.

62. supervixen - 18 September 2007

40, moiv, that is an interesting study. I teach people to develop their psychic/intuitive abilities and one of the things that always blows them away is the exercise in which they take turns telepathically sending visuals of colored shapes (e.g., “blue triangle”) to each other. Some people are better senders than receivers and vice versa, some are better at seeing/sending colors than shapes, etc. But everyone manages to pick up some telepathic info, and often there are people who have a 75% success rate, even before training.

Funky stuff.

I understand the Russians were doing in-depth research on “psi” during the Cold War, particularly remote-viewing. I don’t know where they’re at with that now.

63. supervixen - 18 September 2007

47, Sabrina – re: FLH, yes I liked his diary about the dog. Well actually it was about interracial marriage but he took a detour to talk about a dog. it was much like Thurber’s My Life and Hard Times. FLH should do more of that.

64. supervixen - 18 September 2007

I will be in NYC over Columbus Day weekend taking my son to various touristic destinations and visiting as many restaurants as possible. It will be busy but I plan to meet up with lucid sometime during the weekend. Any other MCatters in the NYC area who would like to join us? Sabrina?

65. Revisionist - 18 September 2007

orellily is reading directly firom the blogs…

just read jane hamsher

66. Revisionist - 18 September 2007

Hcfm —

The incident reminded me of something that happened my freshman year. I had left my wallet in the city over the weekend. I went to eat dinner at the drom and the cafeteria lady refused to let me in without it. Now she had seen me 4-5 times a day for 6 months. Knew me by name. But was being a bitch over a plastic card. That was pissing me off but what really was pissing me off is when it clicked that I WAS PAYING for this shit. Paying to attend the school. Paying to live in their dorm and paying for their crappy food.

I didnt make a big scene. I jut kindo of said I am eating and walked in. As I made my way down the bufferline more and more stafflings kept showing up. I just calmly said No I am eating. I sat at the table and the crowd around me kept getting bigger and I was eventually escorted out by the campus police (that is what should be inportant in the Kerry thing, the cops were no better than the people who ask to see your reciepty at best buy). I had to see the head of student housing and eventaully the Dean himself. All because some Jevovahs Witness Lady wanted to power trip on me. I probably would have been tasered today by the time i got to the mashed potatoes.

67. JJB - 18 September 2007

Strong words over at Juan Cole’s site:

Gaza is the worst outcome of Western colonialism anywhere in the world outside the Belgian Congo.

All too sadly true. I’d add that IMHO, we should refer to Gaza as an Israeli concentration camp. The designation is entirely appropriate by the standards of its original use, which was for the camps into which the British herded the Afrikanner women, children, and old people they forcibly removed from their homes during the Boer War:

The Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed. defines concentration camp as: a camp where non-combatants of a district are accommodated, such as those instituted by Lord Kitchener during the South African war of 1899-1902; one for the internment of political prisoners, foreign nationals, etc., esp. as organized by the Nazi regime in Germany before and during the war of 1939-45.

The English term “concentration camp” was first used to describe camps operated by the British in South Africa during the 1899-1902 Second Boer War. Allegedly conceived as a form of humanitarian aid to the families whose farms had been destroyed in the fighting, the camps were used to confine and control large numbers of civilians as part of a Scorched Earth tactic. The term “concentration camp” was coined at this time to signify the “concentration” of a large number of people in one place, and was used to describe both the camps in South Africa (1899-1902) and those established by the Spanish to support a similar anti-insurgency campaign in Cuba (circa 1895-1898), although at least some Spanish sources disagree with the comparison.

Many would think of the German Third Reich as the first government to use concentration camps to rid themselves of undesirable persons, but during the Second Boer War an estimated 26000 boer woman and children perished in British concentration camps, of which some 100 existed, and almost 14000 native africans who fought with the boers also perished in those same camps, Emily Hobhouse was credited with attempts to inform the world of these inhumanities.

Serious malnutrition and many other reasons can be put forward by historians as explenation for those deaths, but many cases of abuse and rape were reported after the war, and many survivors of those camps reported that their food was regularly supplemented with shattered glas [sic].

The AIPAC/Likud crowd would go absolutely bonkers if anyone were to post about that at any of the BBBs.

68. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

Kerry’s statement, in which he tries to have it both ways:

In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way. I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but again I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of answering him when he was taken into custody. I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted.

Everything else outside of that bolded statement is just window- dressing to try and make himself look good. And, frankly, he’s got to be an incredibly self-involved idiot if he couldn’t hear the student crying out not to be tasered and the reaction of the crowd once he was. Then again, he is an incredibly self-involved idiot.

69. dkosser - 18 September 2007

64 supervixen

out of town damn the luck, definitely next time though!

70. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

Also, this site has a longer version of the tasering video. While you’re there, read that version of the AP story compared to this modified version that attempts to disparage Andrew Meyer.

71. keirdubois - 18 September 2007

Shadowthief- the John Waynes will never die in the OC (take it from me, a coddled suburbanite!). They will just get meaner and dumber as the furriners begin to outnumber them.

JJB at 61- I thought it was Hunter Thompson’s Great BooHoo (a forerunner of BHHM?) who put the kibosh on the Sunshine Express.

FLH lost me long before his CIA stuff. His Hill-shilling is telling, IMO, and all the Thurbering in the world can’t salvage that. But whatever- he will do his thing, as will we all.

72. lucid - 18 September 2007

The AIPAC/Likud crowd would go absolutely bonkers if anyone were to post about that at any of the BBBs.

It’s worse than holocaust denial…

73. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007


Afghanistan will descend into bloody chaos if Canadian troops and other foreign soldiers are withdrawn too quickly, President Hamid Karzai said today, in a forceful plea for Canadian soldiers to continue fighting after 2009.

Evoking the civil wars that wracked Afghanistan in the early 1990s, killing tens of thousands of people, Mr. Karzai said his country could slip into a similarly dark period if the Canadians withdraw as scheduled in 18 months.

“Afghanistan will fall back into anarchy,” he said. “Anarchy will bring back safe havens to terrorists, among other things, and terrorists will then hurt you back there in Canada and the United States. Simple as that.”

Talk about fearmongering. Jeebus.

74. JJB - 18 September 2007

keirdubois, no. 70,

That was a different campaign. Muskie’s chats with antiwar radicals occurred in 1968 when he was Humphrey’s Veep candidate. The incident concerning the guy wearing Hunter T’s press credentials occurred in the 1972 primary campaign. Oddly enough, Muskie’s behavior in 1968 was out of character, he had a volcanic temper that would erupt at the slightest provocation. He was less adept at hiding this in ’72, when he and his wife would often shout at each other in front of reporters interviewing him one-on-one as if they were auditioning for Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf. Apparently, she also had little trouble getting in touch with her anger.

75. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

And speaking of fearmongering:

The United States is opposed to Syria attending Washington’s regional peace summit in November, Israeli academics Monday told Haaretz, based on their conversation with a senior U.S. official. The academics say the official described Syria as “a vicious, brutal regime allied to Iran strategically,” which subscribes to “the most barbaric anti-Semitic views.” [bomb bomb bomb Iran -catnip]

But after eleven days of speculations regarding the alleged Israel Air Force strike on Syria, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Monday that he respects Syrian President Bashar Assad and is ready, given the right conditions, to launch peace talks with Damascus.

“I have a lot of respect for the Syrian leader and for Syria’s conduct. They have internal problems, but we have no reason to rule out dialogue with Syria,” Olmert said in a briefing for Russian-language media outlets in Israel.

“As I’ve said in the past, we want to make peace with everyone,[right…that’s why you’re still sending the IDF into the occupied territories and planes into Syrian territory. -catnip] Olmert continued. “If the conditions ripen, we are ready to make peace with Syria, with no preconditions and no ultimate demands.”

If the US government would butt out maybe they’d actually get somewhere in the ME. Fighting over who gets to attend a “peace” conference. The irony is apparently not obvious to that “senior US official”.

76. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

Irony of the day award:

American officials have complained recently that Israeli immigration authorities harass American citizens of Arab origin at Israeli border crossings.

I mean – gee – it’s not like US officials harass anyone trying to get into their country, right?

77. JJB - 18 September 2007

liberalcatnip, no. 73,

Sounds exactly like what George Packer said about Iraq in his recent New Yorker article, in which he also held up what we did about organizing a government in Afghanistan after driving out the Taliban as a template we could use in Iraq. What needs to be pointed out over and over is that both countries are in chaos anyway, and that what we’ve done in Iraq is all too like what we did in Afghanistan anyway. As I read the awful future Packer painted of Iraq if we pull out immediately, and what Karzai claims will happen in Afghanistan if Canadian troops don’t stay I found myself thinking “that’s exactly what it’s like now, and one of the reasons for that is the presence of foreign troops.”

78. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

I just have to post the rest of that article:

During meetings between senior State Department officials and their counterparts in Israel, the Americans said that in recent months there has been a troubling increase in the number of complaints by American citizens of Palestinian and Arab origin, regarding the treatment they receive at border crossings and airports in Israel.

The Americans complained about long delays, a suspicious attitude, and degrading security checks.

The State Department officials stressed that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was very perturbed by this issue and said they expected immediate improvement.

They also warned their Israeli counterparts that unless there was a change, they would update the travel warning for Americans visiting Israel to include a statement that “Israel harasses American citizens of Arab and Palestinian origin.”

What a fucking joke. Not a word about how Palestinians are treated every bloody day.

79. marisacat - 18 September 2007

I mean tto post this a few days ago, Scruggs had a piece on an elderly woman arrested, handcuffed and put in jail for not watering her lawn… in the comments (# 3) is a further Scruggs reference to several instances of elderly (and I do mean elderly) being tasered.

A 71-year-old woman whose prosthetic eye was popped out by officers restraining her was awarded a $145,000 settlement in part because she was also pepper-sprayed and Tasered three times.

The incident began when the woman, Eunice Crowder, challenged city employee Ed Marihart, who was forcibly cleaning up her yard based on a search warrant. Marihart called 911 and officers Robert Miller (#38512) and Eric Zajac (#3783) arrived. One of the officers struck her in the head, causing her false eye to come out. According to the April 23 Oregonian, police admitted pushing her into the dirt.

Zajac Tasered her in the back twice and once in the breast. Crowder’s 94-year-old mother, who came out and tried to let them know Crowder was hearing and vision-impaired, was not harmed. A judge dismissed charges against Crowder of harassment and interfering with a police officer.

And he has a hoot of piece up on Kerry today… a snip he uses refers to Kerry as a “odd bit of Duchampian machinery” (applause on that one!)…

snip from the snip:

The man is droning on and on and on and on (off-screen) as this boy is being tasered. (It is as though Kerry was possessed by Biden’s ghost or something. with all due respect to the senator from Delaware. ) But really — It has the quality of a semi-inspired Monty Python skit, or it would have if it weren’t so upsetting! In the end, it’s more Pinter than Python. Kerry goes on like the odd bit of Duchampian machinery he is. (Think of the useless invention in “The Large Glass” – and you have Kerry.) It’s a very powerful non-image; this disembodied blathering of the perfectly hapless politico as the protestor screams in agony and rage and gets tortured by people in uniform.

Scruggs is very deft, I must say. Timely too… 😉

80. marisacat - 18 September 2007


agree keir… the shilling for Hillary and Obama is gag worthy. hell FLH: you come home and LIVE UNDER THEM then.

I have been an ex-pat and watched Americans (and others, it is not an American disease) “drift”, they stop caring in the least what happens at “home”. It becomes academic.

81. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

Escobar in the Asia Times: French-kissing the war on Iran exposes les chiens de gerre:

President George W Bush goes to New York next week for the annual United Nations General Assembly to ratchet up the demonization of Iran, confident that his new French ally is doing “a heck of a job”. President Nicolas Sarkozy – widely referred to in Paris as King Sarko the First – has let loose the dogs of war with more panache than a madame from the chic seventh arrondissement parading her miniature Pinscher.

82. keirdubois - 18 September 2007

78- marisa, how is that drift shaken off, if ever? What, as far as contracting that disease, is the point of no return in your opinion? Just curious…

83. keirdubois - 18 September 2007

oops, that would be marisa at 79. sorry.

84. keirdubois - 18 September 2007

oh hell. I should not do this unsupervised right now.

85. lucid - 18 September 2007

moiv #40:

Exhibit A of why I laugh at the puffery of ‘medical science’. If you have any knowledge of statistics, when you really start reading these studies and compare the conclusions to the data, you inevitably end up scratching your head and thinking – ‘how the hell did they prove that from the data’?

86. marisacat - 18 September 2007


LOL I never saw anyone taken with the disease shake it off. And I have been at odds with America all my life… fully at odds. But gee, I am an American. I don’t care where I am, what happens here matters.

bTW, in the election of Sarko the First.. it was the first time that non resident French – those would be EX PATS! – were allowed to vote. They lined up around the block here at the Alliance Francaise… and of course they voted in Israel as well. And elsewhere.

Presto, you get that asshole in. Not that Segolene was a peach, she was not.

87. marisacat - 18 September 2007

Life is amusing. I see Gilroy leads the page at PFF with a lecture to Democrats on Kerry.

And is he still hawking that Hillary is a lefty, hiding it manfully til she ascends the WH, to unleash a [highly subversive, as it is so hidden] lefty agenda?

One born every minute.

88. marisacat - 18 September 2007

LOL And I see Gilroy rides over FLH, hawking the Hillary so called Health Plan.

It’s a coven!!

89. Revisionist - 18 September 2007

someone has spammed malware/virus sites with Armando crap.

Should you search Armando wife email mcjoan you get a slew of .info addresses. mcat appears to be the only non trojan site that has mention of it.

90. CSTAR - 18 September 2007

Marie’s post linked above in #43 on Alexis Debat is definitely worth reading. One really wonders how people can pull this stuff off.

91. Revisionist - 18 September 2007

dc statehood blocked in senate

92. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

Via CNN: AIPAC told CNN it took no position on the Iraq war.


Here’s the background via The Hill:

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) went after fellow Democrat Jim Moran of Virginia Tuesday, calling on him to retract his comments about the Israel lobby.

“His remarks were factually inaccurate and recall an old canard that is not true, that the Jewish community controls the media and the Congress,” Hoyer said at a news conference in the Capitol.

In an interview published in the September-October issue of Tikkun magazine, Moran said the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC, “has pushed this war from the beginning … They are so well-organized, and their members are extraordinarily powerful — most of them are quite wealthy — they have been able to exert power.”

Asked if he considered Moran’s remarks anti-Semitic and if he should apologize, Hoyer reiterated that he found them “factually inaccurate” and said Moran should “retract” them.

In a statement issued by Moran’s office, the congressman admitted that the tone of his remarks were “unnecessarily harsh” but stood by his statements that AIPAC does not represent “mainstream American Jewish opinion.”

I’m surprised Hoyer didn’t go that one extra step to call Moran an “anti-Semite”.

93. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Gaza is the worst outcome of Western colonialism anywhere in the world outside the Belgian Congo.

The big difference however is that in the Congo, Leopold was committing atrocities, not because he had anything in particular against blacks but because he needed cheap labor to extract the ivory.

On the other hand, the problem in Gaza is that (as Naomi Klein says) the influx of Russian immigrants rendered the Palestinians economically superfluous. They were no longer needed to do cheap labor.

It’s actually more accurate to compare Gaza to the US prison industrial complex on crack.

94. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Talk about fearmongering. Jeebus.

Oh I’m sure Karzai himself has every reason to be afraid of an American withdrawl.

95. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

#93. Well, he’s certainly a fool to think that the couple of thousand of Canadian troops there right now are making such a huge difference in the scheme of things or that when they leave in 2009, when the current mandate expires, that Afghanistan will suddenly go to helena handbasket. Like Iraq, it’s already there.

96. marisacat - 18 September 2007

karzai, as I understand it, has no personal militia. And you are nobody there without a personal army.

Sitting duck, for us as well… he relies on our paid security, think it is Blackwater that is used there. Who can turn on him in an instant.

Oh wellllllllllllllll… he’d be looking to his astrakhan hat for defense.

97. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

They’re so damn afraid of those messy things at dkos:

Many activists have worked tirelessly to stop a war with Iran, others have been working since 2000 to fix our electoral system, and countless others have tried to open up our political system by Crashing the Gate. How does supporting an hysterical conspiracy theorist and having to defend him in the MSM help any of those causes?

Making Andrew Meyer a cause-celebre undermines the legitimacy of what we stand for. It cheapens our efforts to lump ourselves in with someone who disrupts an event to push his own agenda. And rather than focusing on these legitimate issues, the media gets to blame the “dirty, fucking hippies” again for their actions rather than focus on the actions of our corrupt, incompetent public officials.

So while some see Meyer as a kindred spirit standing up to the Man, I see him as no more than a Republican heckler looking to undermine all of our beliefs. And I welcome his actions no more than I would a member of UF’s College Republicans disrupting the event to ask about Kerry’s Vietnam service.

Shades of attacking Cindy Sheehan. Just proclaim that “he’s not one of US!” and throw him off the Great Orange Boat.

I wonder how many leftover Kerry operatives there are over there.

Just what the hell do they “stand for” over there anyway besides mediocrity, complacency and the status quo?

98. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Oh I just mean that as soon as his US/Canadian protecters leave, Karzai will probably be Anbar Sheiked.

99. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Shades of attacking Cindy Sheehan.

Interesting thing about attacks on Cindy Sheehan.

It’s deleted now but the day after the march in DC on NYC Indymedia one of the regular anti-semitic trolls called “no war for Israel” got careless and posted a link to the Frontpage attack on Cindy (the one about how the terrorists personally thanked her).

Oooops. Mr. Frontpage Zionazi Troll needs to learn to use two browsers when he pretends he’s a Stromfront troll.

His usual fare is stuff like “Norman Finkelstein is the only Jew we can trust. David Duke loves him”. Stuff like that.

100. antihegemonic - 18 September 2007

Daily Kos users are some of the most complacent, undereducated, sheltered and easily duped people online. They have nothing of substance to offer, and they quote the book ghostwriters wrote on behalf of Markos Zuniga as if it were the Bible.

The only gate the crashed was the one protecting me and others from their venom.

To them the only legitimate form of activism involves sending a $25 donation to Tammy Duckworth.

101. marisacat - 18 September 2007

I saw a tape where he was pulling of his other little push backs. Standing on a corner holding a sign: Harry dies

when the last Potter book came out.

i champion that sort of thing. Anyway it is MINOR. People act there never has been, never should be a hard or truculent or invasive question at a rally. That there never should be a “bad” moment for the Roman senate.

And really, by now, who the fuck is Kerry? nobody. A useless memeber of a disgusting body.

Beats invading and killing and cluster bombing and napalming and releasing masses of DU.

And so on.

102. marisacat - 18 September 2007

98 – HCfM

I agreee…

103. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Uggh. I read Kerry’s flak on the tasering.

Bullshit. The war hero stood by and watched while a 19 year old kid got brutalized by the police just because he held up a copy or Greg Palast and asked a goddamned question.

Then again, why am I suprised. No democrat even mentioned the fact that 2000 people were detained without charges during the RNC in New York.

104. antihegemonic - 18 September 2007

Humorous are the petty battles over healthcare at Daily Kos. Poll after poll reveals how irrelevant those people are, as Clinton continues to surge despite all their little efforts. You would think the operatives there would know how to read a poll.

105. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

#101. Even the Heritage Foundation didn’t have thug cops pull Code Pinkers from their stage when they protested.

106. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

I should have added that at least the Heritage Foundation thugs didn’t have any Code Pinkers tasered.

107. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Thinking about the right-wing counterprotesters in DC.

Question. Where was the biggest student insurrection in the USA in the 1960s.

1.) Berkeley
2.) Columbia
3.) Madison
4.) Kent State
5.) Oxford Mississippi

That’s right. #5. The largest, most violent student protests in American history took place in 1963 against letting James Meridith register. Klansmen from all over the region drove into town. A general (Edwin Walker) helped organize the riots and was later charged with conspiracy to committ insurrection.

It overwhelmed the National Guard and they had to call in regular troops.

It made Chicago, the FSM, the march on the Pentagon, all of them look tame.

In other words, the right’s always mobilized more people into the streets and has done more civil disobedience than the left. Think of the anti-abortion movement. Abortion isn’t hard to get in “red” America because people voted. It’s hard to get because of street protests.

The right’s outnumbered NOW (with their guy in the White House). They even need a special police moblization in conservative Morristown NJ to protect their anti-immigrant protest.

But if Hillary gets in office?

To quote Lyndon Johnson. “Who cares about the punks on the campuses. The great beast in the American right”.

Baby Killer LBJ was dead on about that one.

108. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Even the Heritage Foundation didn’t have thug cops pull Code Pinkers from their stage when they protested.

And Rumsfeld actually let Ray McGovern speak.

109. marisacat - 18 September 2007

we are so in the big clogged storm drain – that leads off the messy filthy smelly gutter we’ve been in for years, filled with blood and body parts…

from the Hill (think catnip linked to it upthread)

Antonio Perez, the chairman and CEO of Kodak who has contributed to Clinton’s campaign this year, praised her plan in Monday’s release: “Senator Clinton’s healthcare reform plan recognizes that managing and financing America’s healthcare system is a shared responsibility between government, business and individuals.”

Right. And S-chip is a big battle – both sides – and there is not and never will be, at the least, 100% coverage for catastrophic illness.

We cannot even care for the least and the dying.

But don’t ask Hilarius the First a tough question.

110. marisacat - 18 September 2007


One reason I championed pushing for the fall of Lott (yes I noticed he is baaack)… for the ol’ Miss era. An operative, hard core front line, then and still one.

111. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

Oh I just mean that as soon as his US/Canadian protecters leave, Karzai will probably be Anbar Sheiked.

That depends on how much corruption by the warlords, drug runners and the Taliban he is actually supporting. It’s kind of hard to figure that out at this point.

112. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

But don’t ask Hilarius the First a tough question.

Did you see the video clip of her on Maher’s show last week where she said she consulted with (what seemed like THOUSANDS) of advisors before she voted on the AUMF? She didn’t exactly mention that she never read the NIE.

113. marisacat - 18 September 2007

Well the extreme tension between Establishment Dems and any sign of human life is why I think they will do anything to cast off the so called and the real anti war left. (I think the MoveOn ad is very suspicious, a set up, MoveOn could not care less about the war or the generals or anything but $$$$)

And why they, Est Dems, are desperate to out war Bush.

At least, that is how i see it.

114. marisacat - 18 September 2007


LOL I don’t think either or any of them even read the SUMMARY. Edwards could nto be bothered to show up for the Intell Committee… Kerry hoped ot burnish his CV for pres (and is unable to explain a NO vote for GW1 with a YES vote for IW) and Hillary was for the war, fully.

Her speeches from 2002 and 03 are BushWarAlltheWay!

115. marisacat - 18 September 2007

I tihnk Mayer was on an FU (meaning Florida U in thsi case, LOL) list. The only thing that makes sense. Or there was a signal from a Kerry operative in the audience when the question was what it was and the Palast book was sighted.

116. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Tweety just referred to the FU student as a “heckler”.

117. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

The LGFers are confused.


On one hand they hate uppity students but on the other hand they hate John Kerry.

118. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

Some people really need to get a life.

SYFP (2+ / 2-)

Recommended by:
beachmom, Vincenzo Giambatista
Trollrated by:
ultrageek, Detroit Mark

Really can’t it ever be given a rest? Were you tasered as a baby?

We need a real man like Kucinich is the answer I guess.

Intelligent Designer Laments Lapse in Intelligence

by mrblifil on Tue Sep 18, 2007 at 10:58:49 AM PDT

[ Parent ]

troll rating for “tasered as a baby” (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
cotterperson, dewley notid

also would taser you for “raped as a baby” or “kicked in the head as a baby” or even “burned with cigarettes as a baby”.

Child abuse is real, and babies can’t defend themselves or name their attackers.

You’re a sick person to even suggest this.

You can be as free as you want, so long as Republicans control birth, death, sex and marriage. And whose vote counts.

by ultrageek on Tue Sep 18, 2007 at 11:33:05 AM PDT

Sigh. Seriously. Walk.away.from.the.computer.

119. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

OK. Tweety’s not happy about the Tazing. But he’s also talking about how much freedom we all have at political events.

I think part of this is training. Tweety actually joked about “this having a chilling effect” but he joked about it.

120. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

Wes Clark is on Tucker. Well…not ON Tucker. You know what I mean…

121. antihegemonic - 18 September 2007

Now they claim in the thread you quote that Kerry is not accountable, as it was the Florida State police who used the taser gun against the young man. But do not call him a kid, they admonish.

These people would condone torture if Democrats approved of it. Wait, many Democrats did.

122. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

This LGFer is starting to catch on.


What about when Hitlary gets into office next year? If her goons start tazering us when we protest her forcing medical insurance on everyone in America, we won’t have any moral ground to stand on.

Now ask yourself WHY the Democrats have made no moves to get rid of the Patriot Act.

123. marisacat - 18 September 2007

I had not seen stun gun/taser spam yet, thru all the thousands upon thousands of spam I get, this just appeared:

pepper_spray | druid@mail.com | safety-productz.info | IP:

Hello everybody – talon stun guns – lumidor safety product – buy stun gun – advanced air taser – bull taser video – pen stun gun – womens self defense – make your own stun gun – stun gun circuit diagram – scorpion stun guns Thanks

— Sep 18, 2:54 PM —

124. Revisionist - 18 September 2007

wasnt florida where thet tazed the little girl last year?

125. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

The question missing from the debates is this.

If this guy was really being disrupted wouldn’t the crowd have just shouted him down and told him to get out?

And if they THOUGHT he was worthy of tazering and DIDN”T shout him down long before that, isn’t THAT a problem?

If you’re so totally passive that you need cops and tazers to protect your “community” aren’t you already slaves?

Maybe being from NYC has warped my perspective. People here have no trouble saying “sit down and shut the fuck up” if they think someone’s being disrupted.

I was riding a NJ transit train a few days ago and this early 20ish black guy (don’t know if i need to specify race or not) has his loud ass speaker phone on and he’s ostantiously talking into it to let us all know that, hey, he has a cool cell phone.

It lasted about 5 seconds. A woman just walked up to him and said “turn your speaker off asshole” and he did.

No tazers or cops required.

126. Marie - 18 September 2007

HC – the audience seemed to cheer a bit when the goons went after the guy. Otherwise they were completely well trained in the art of passivity. TV is probably the best insructor for that that the world has ever seen.

The wingnuts more than anyone else wants this story to go away because it has them tied up in knots.

Hope someone like Scott Ritter pens something on this.

127. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Just an observation about Kerry’s diary on the Daily Kos.


Alright, I’m the Online Communications Director for John Kerry, and I wanted to jump in here to let all of y’all know about what happened yesterday at the University of Florida event. JK himself wanted to stop by, but he’s stuck in Senate business all day and won’t have a chance to respond to any comments.


Why is it that when one of Kerry’s interns posts “his” diaries he/she usually pretends it’s from Kerry himself.

Now Kerry’s staffer identifies herself as a Kerry staffer.

How much do you want to be this is the same person who posts Kerry’s diaries when Kerry posts his own diaries?

Just another example of Kerry’s cowardnice.

Get up in front of a mike and a crowd of journalists and take your punishment war hero or just retire already.

128. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

Get a life on aisle 2. lol…sometime said Kerry was “droning on and on” and the troll-raters are all over him. Raise your hand if you don’t think Kerry drones on and on…

I rest my case.

129. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Kerry’s My Pet Goat moment.

Jeez. Skull and Bones parties must be pathetically dull if those two are any example.

130. Revisionist - 18 September 2007

After weeks of suggesting Democrats would temper their approach to Iraq legislation in a bid to attract more Republicans, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid declared abruptly Tuesday that he had no plans to do so.

131. marisacat - 18 September 2007

Send the Roman senate home. All of them.


132. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

Hmm. Actually the audience did cheer when the cops dragged him.

It’s clear why he’s agitated. The cops were hovering 5 inches away from him during the entire time he was talking, prepared to drag him off any second.

133. antihegemonic - 18 September 2007

shayera of Daily Kos issued troll ratings in that thread. And notice how all the sheep at Daily Kos bowed down before the twenty-something staffer who is charged to do his or her boss’s dirty work.

All of them are pitiful.

134. Hair Club for Men - 18 September 2007

It’s too bad that kid didn’t say something more polite

135. liberalcatnip - 18 September 2007

Medea Benjamin is on Hardball.

136. marisacat - 18 September 2007

… thread…


137. antihegemonic - 18 September 2007

Maybe Markos will appear and discuss how tough on security he and Karry are.

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