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Money money money money…….. [updated :: fire fire fire] 22 October 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2004 Election, 2006 Mid Terms, 2008 Election, California / Pacific Coast, DC Politics, Democrats, France, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, WAR!.

   Launderette - photo - T C Breuer
       Photo – T C Breuer  ::  Margaret Truman’s Launderette

I think Carl Hiassen has this just right…

[I]n this instance, the mystery is why Clinton and the other Democrats would take a nickel from anyone so prominently linked to such slimy allegations. There are plenty of reputable (and affluent) trial lawyers who’ve never been indicted for anything.

One possible excuse is that the candidates didn’t know about the Milberg Weiss scandal, which would mean they’d been living in a subterranean cave without the benefit of newspapers, TV or the Internet.  [oh puh-leeeze… Mcat]

Another defense would be that they didn’t know about the Milberg Weiss donations, which seems farfetched considering the firm’s heavy connections to the party. After all, its lawyers kicked in $500,000 toward the construction of a new headquarters for the Democratic National Committee. 

The final possibility — and the only believable one — is that the candidates knew all about the indictments and accepted the money anyway, hoping nobody would notice.

That would be a big, fat, flapping in the air BINGO!

It’s not illegal for a politician to accept campaign contributions from a defendant in a pending bribery case, or from somebody who’s copped a guilty plea.

But it sure looks bad, not to mention hypocritical.

Not that it really matters. 


I landed on a link to this forthright [more than a few tart replies] little interview in the NYT magazine, at Angry Arab

and let me snip out the best description I have ever read for injected, plumped lips:

Are you suggesting that veiling and unveiling women are equally reductive? I disagree.

We have to look at ourselves here also. Why do all the women get plastic surgery? Why? Why? Why should we look like some freaks with big lips that look like an anus? What is so sexy about that?

What is sexy about having something that looks like a goose anus?

I never really thought about goose anatomy.

I looked when I was on a farm in France.

Travel is so broadening. 


A goose anus hanging from a human face is a good segue to this re-telling…

An emailer mentioned being at dinner in Manhattan, 4 plus the emailer.  As the political conversation devolved (talk of the Armenian Resolution and Democrats in congress) it fell to who would you vote for today

3 out of 5 declared for Hillary.  One for Colbert and one (emailer) “none of the above”. 

Now, this ws not some gathering of semi Republicans, quasi Libertarians… or what have you.  They had all marched in every anti war march in NYC, as well as travelling to DC.  One had gone to DC on inauguration January 20, 2005 in a bitter storm just to protest.

Bill and Hill rely on this vagueness of purpose from the electorate.

My own belief is that Hill and Bill are gambling on ringing in a landmark win for Democrats.  That, with Blacks lining up (and they may), Latinos lining up (and they may), the women, esp working class women, lining up (they may) as well as LGBT and assorted minorities (they may) they will not bring in a 51, 52, bare scrape to 53 per cent win (or Bill’s own 43% in the ’92 three-way), they hope to ring in a decisive majority with an historic pt spread.

Just a guess.  (Please note:  I am not saying they manage to win, I am saying that is the gamble.)

I will watch, but as in ’04 and ’06, sorry, I will not be there with them.

Oh you think this was a tad dark?  Think again. I skipped the war fronts.

  Iraq - Ed Kashi
      Iraq – Ed Kashi


, 1:11 pm

   Malibu beach October 21
Luke Schroder, 14, turns back to look at the smoke-filled sky in Malibu.  (Richard Hartog/Los Angeles Times  – October 21, 2007)

From Tijuana north to Santa Barbara the fires are not contained.  The Santa Ana winds, feeding the fires and drying the dry vegetation are not dying down:

[G]usts hit 108 mph at Whitaker Peak near Castaic Lake and 111 mph at Laguna Peak, near Point Mugu.

The powerful Santa Anas are the result of a cool high-pressure system in the Great Basin above Utah and a warmer low-pressure system along coastal Southern California.

The differential between the two systems is strong, causing winds to barrel over the desert and mountains, then through canyons to the ocean.

At the same time, other areas such as downtown L.A. and Pasadena experienced little, if any, wind Sunday.

“It’s a fickle combination of a lot of things, including the topography,” said Kelly Redmond, interim director of the Western Regional Climate Center at the Desert Research Institute in Reno.

As the moving air makes its way to the coast, it doesn’t move as a uniform sheet of air. In some parts it stagnates, in other parts it speeds up.”The erratic nature of the winds made it difficult for firefighters to battle the flames. In Malibu, the wind raged in the morning, ebbed around noon, then raged again in the late afternoon and evening.“These add to the dilemma of people fighting fires or evacuating homes,” Redmond said.“The winds are one way one minute, and it seems OK. Then they come right back again, and you think the world is ending.”

As Santa Ana winds move from high to low elevations, crossing deserts and mountains, they heat up.

That is bad news for firefighters, because the winds heat and dry already-parched vegetation.

“The relative humidity went from 60% to 70% around dawn to single digits: 5, 7, 8%,” Kenneth Reeves, director of forecasting for Accuweather.com said.


UPDATE, 3:13 pm


Learning to be white: “It is a theme that seems to have informed the youthful Republican congressman’s every step, from his decision at age 4 to jettison his given name of Piyush for that of a character in the television series “The Brady Bunch” to the attentive faith-infused courting of conservatives that led to his victory on Saturday with 54 percent of the vote….Mr. Jindal is a technocrat and a Roman Catholic convert, a policy aficionado well-versed in free-market solutions to the crisis in health insurance and a proponent of “intelligent design” as an alternative theory to evolution, suggesting it may be appropriate in school science classes.”


“Rancho Bernardo is burning to the ground due to lack of resources, while they can put an engine crew at any Malibu house at risk. My prayers go out to all affected.” — David


UPDATE, 9:43 pm – a warm night in San Francisco…

  reader photo from LAT
A view of the Witch Fire from the corner of Nordahl and Mission in Escondido.  (Submitted to YourScene – LAT – By Michelle)


UPDATED, 1:57 am Tuesday – still a warm night in San Francisco…


Firefighters trapped along a ridge near Santiago Canyon Road use fire shelters. None were seriously hurt.  (Karen Tapia / Los Angeles Times)





1. aemd - 22 October 2007

LOL. Marjane Satrapi is a pistol. A few more links to interviews.

“I have no problem smoking wherever I want in America,” she says with the ghost of a smile. “I just tell them I have to, for health reasons.”


“You can be completely imprisoned while technically free, and you can be completely free being in jail. If you are one of those nasty Christian people like the Mormons, you know, how free are they? They are not, and they are living in a free country. All of that is in your brain.”


2. marisacat - 22 October 2007

ooo thanks for the links. I will enjoy reading them…


3. marisacat - 22 October 2007

DB, I see, is not just rolling in clover he’s snorting it. Best grazing he’s had in years:

[I]t’s fine really. Don’t worry about it. I know I wear you ladies out very quickly in these debates. Thanks for having a nice chat and if you do feel that I have left something you said unreplied to then just mention it here and I’ll get back to you.

I’m sure there will be other times and other diaries. I’m pretty happy with how this one went.

4. aemd - 22 October 2007

And speaking of money… 😉

A look at the court wizards behind the “Masters of the Universe”, the quants.

“If quants in one guise or another have been around for a while, they have also made trouble before. The hedge fund Long-Term Capital Management, which collapsed in August 1998, boasted some of the founders of the field among its directors and officers. ”


5. marisacat - 22 October 2007


oh that is an interesting article, on the quants. Thanks for that link.

6. marisacat - 22 October 2007

Isikoff in Newsweek

Like other Democratic candidates, she has decried the “stunning record of secrecy” of the Bush administration; her campaign Web site vows to bring a “return to transparency” to government.

But Clinton’s appointment calendar as First Lady, her notes at strategy meetings, what advice she gave her husband and his advisers, what policy memos she wrote, even some key papers from her health-care task force—all of this, and much more documenting her years as First Lady, remains locked away, most likely through the entire campaign season. With nearly 300 FOIA requests pending for Clinton documents, and only six archivists at the library to process them, Archives spokeswoman Susan Cooper says it is “really hard to predict” if any of this material will be released before the election.

7. aemd - 22 October 2007

Good ole St Hill, LOL. It’s most likely an impact of “teh pop culture” but every time I see/hear her, a line from a song “pops” into my head….

“She’s filing her nails while they’re dragging the lake”

Just can’t shake it. 😎

8. marisacat - 22 October 2007

the photograph in Newsweek is hilarious. She is peering outward..the title is “What files?, I don’t see any files…”

If she makes it in, they will stumble badly — and early.

9. aemd - 22 October 2007

“they will stumble badly – and early”

Hmmm, hard to say…they are tough and mean…and she wants it more than he ever did.

I believe the power vacuum in both parties adds a lot of unpredictability to the “race”. I won’t be layin’ my money down on the outcome… of the race not the path of the country. That’s pretty much a given. 😎

10. marisacat - 22 October 2007

I think it will be Nixonian. The very madness for power will cause the fall. She was a complete mess as consort/VP in the male version of the Clinton presidency.

Plus they are up agaisnt the R. I am guessing they think there will be some form of hands off, all their rightie and xtian fundie “friends”… I can see the Clintons expecting to have to slash and burn the Democratic party.

Could be a big big bonfire.

I agree, both parties are poisoned beyond any resolution.

If people did nto suffer and die from the games, ti would be quite the fun event.

11. aemd - 22 October 2007

“I think it will be Nixonian”

In the general election, yep, I can see that happening. Guess I can’t see the forest for the trees, stuck in the “primary” wilderness. LOL.

Just some (very opinionated) information… she’s got a hell of a, I ain’t exaggeratin’ here, ground game. Miles ahead of the competition on both sides of the aisle. She not taking anything for granted (or granite 🙂 )

She not running off the standard mailing/contact lists. (at risk of being smeared as a quant, I check the mailing/contact information) That cost some money and more important, pull.

Interesting times, very interestin’ times……

12. marisacat - 22 October 2007

hmm something beyond what Ickes set up? That they run separate from the DNC data?

Plus iirc what I read sometime ago, they make money off that data mining, if state parties or other Dem candidates want it.

I just heard that our primary is fully split. The moved up presidential for (at the moment) Feb 5 – and then the rest of the down ticket in June.

They are overdoing this stuff. What an effing mess! Our turn out for primaries is falling. 30% for 04 presidential.. and 23, 24% for the next gubernatorial.

13. CSTAR - 22 October 2007

Well, Marisa, today, right now, for president, I would write in Emperor Norton. Dead, but as a good a choice as any. Certainly, funnier in his lifetime than Colbert.

14. aemd - 22 October 2007

“hmm something beyond what Ickes set up?”

Shit, Ms Cat, don’t know. A bit outta “the loop” on the Ickes setup. 😎

All I see is a difference in mailing/contact info from the standard state Democratic/GOP mailings (both primary and local candidates. as an undeclared voter in this state, I get hit up by both parties.)

….but if Ickes/Clinton has acquired the “Catholic” list? I have seen no indication of that…but Sununu has it. Yep he does and funny how my address got on that list, being an atheist and all.

“they make money off that data mining, if state parties or other Dem candidates want it.”

Don’t know about the money but Clinton Bots are out passing around local candidates (this Nov election) handouts….

“I just heard that our primary is fully split.”

Yeah, looks like I’ll be humming Xmas tunes on the way to the polls. What a mess is right. LOL.

15. wilfred - 22 October 2007

Love the Hiassen link, he’s great and knows corruption very well after writing about it all these years in Florida.

16. marisacat - 22 October 2007



Colbert was awful Sunday AM iwth Russert. Not going to b a scintillating alternative run, if he does not pick up the pace.

Emperor Norton works for me, frankly.



will find a link on the Ickes data mining game, a Clintonite endeavor, and post it..



LOL “follow the money”. This can only get worse (or better, in popcorn terms)

17. ms_xeno - 22 October 2007

I don’t know about the other pffrequenters, but every time fritztaledonkeytitz goes off about us, all I think about is a collective got up to look like Diana Rigg from The Avengers.

Glamourous, if totally disconnected from the actual reality.

I’d better not wait for President Huckabee’s blessing to go on that diet. 😉

18. CSTAR - 22 October 2007

I saw it (online) and I agree it was awful; painful actually. A political satirist worth the name, would have aimed directly at Russert. instead he was pandering. Russert might as well have been interviewing Big Bird.

19. marisacat - 22 October 2007


yes! pandered! And equally bad his delivery and timing were off. lousy, in a word. If he is still the critic/satirist at the big correspondents’ dinner last year (or was it the year before) no sign of it.

20. marisacat - 22 October 2007


Donkeytitz probably needs water and a pruning.

21. marisacat - 22 October 2007

I must say, this defines Blahging, BLahgers – and Box Car Sites – and the relentlessly reductive nature of the vaporous all… :

When she asked “what is the AUMF?”, it sounded like she really had no idea. Maybe she was merely asking for elaboration. If so, clumsily done, but to the average person coming to her for the first time, that would be enough to suggest she has no idea whatsoever what she is talking about.

I was surprised she didn’t know what that was

It was a central vote for what she called the “Vichy Dems”.

22. marisacat - 22 October 2007

aemd – 14

a fast google of data+mining+ickes+clinton

23. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

Obama has the anti-gay fucktard Donnie McClurkin singing in his choir and the “netroots” is conducting an anti-Obama blogswarm.

Personally if Obama were in favor of gay marriage and full rights for gays in general, his hiring of this guy would be a non-issue.

But like the rest of the Democrats, he’s wishy washy, sticking his finger in the wind.

On the other hand, why no blog swarms about Hillary’s hard line fundamentalist Xtian connections? Isn’t that worse than a single gospel singer?

24. marisacat - 22 October 2007

simple answer and everybody (but the believers) knows it, HIllary, long ago, put big money in the online system.

Obama and Edwards just look vague. She looks to be a continuation of Bushiter, in some form or another.

25. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

There’s a neocon on Hardball and Tweety (to his credit) is maneuvering him into admitting he’s in favor of “preventative” and not just “preemptive” war on Iran.

26. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007

what, they’re giving MSock credit for Vichy Dems?

Oh, and while we’re looking at Pfft, some more floating trash:

At the start of the Academy Award-winning movie “American Beauty,” a character videotapes a plastic grocery bag as it drifts into the air, an event he casts as a symbol of life’s unpredictable currents, and declares the romantic moment as a “most beautiful thing.”

To the eyes of an oceanographer, the image is pure catastrophe.

In reality, the rogue bag would float into a sewer, follow the storm drain to the ocean, then make its way to the so-called Great Pacific Garbage Patch – a heap of debris floating in the Pacific that’s twice the size of Texas, according to marine biologists.

The enormous stew of trash – which consists of 80 percent plastics and weighs some 3.5 million tons, say oceanographers – floats where few people ever travel, in a no-man’s land between San Francisco and Hawaii.

Marcus Eriksen, director of research and education at the Algalita Marine Research Foundation in Long Beach, said his group has been monitoring the Garbage Patch for 10 years.

“With the winds blowing in and the currents in the gyre going circular, it’s the perfect environment for trapping,” Eriksen said. “There’s nothing we can do about it now, except do no more harm.”

The patch has been growing, along with ocean debris worldwide, tenfold every decade since the 1950s, said Chris Parry, public education program manager with the California Coastal Commission in San Francisco.

27. marisacat - 22 October 2007

Speaking of neo-con… I read Ledeen in the WSJ, guess it was yesterday:

We are winning in Iraq.

No shit.

28. marisacat - 22 October 2007


Well because of the way Safeway packages deliveries, I get about 20 of the ubiquitous white plastic bags with every delivery. And the big blue recycle bin that is next to my garbage can says “No Plastic Bags”…

so I have an archive (100s) of white plastic bags, stored inside a 30 gallon garbage bag, stashed on the porch.


29. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007

Riverbend is up

Back at the Syrian border, we waited in a large group, tired and hungry, having handed over our passports for a stamp. The Syrian immigration man sifting through dozens of passports called out names and looked at faces as he handed over the passports patiently, “Stand back please- stand back”. There was a general cry towards the back of the crowded hall where we were standing as someone collapsed- as they lifted him I recognized an old man who was there with his family being chaperoned by his sons, leaning on a walking stick.

By the time we had reentered the Syrian border and were headed back to the cab ready to take us into Kameshli, I had resigned myself to the fact that we were refugees. I read about refugees on the Internet daily… in the newspapers… hear about them on TV. I hear about the estimated 1.5 million plus Iraqi refugees in Syria and shake my head, never really considering myself or my family as one of them. After all, refugees are people who sleep in tents and have no potable water or plumbing, right? Refugees carry their belongings in bags instead of suitcases and they don’t have cell phones or Internet access, right? Grasping my passport in my hand like my life depended on it, with two extra months in Syria stamped inside, it hit me how wrong I was. We were all refugees. I was suddenly a number. No matter how wealthy or educated or comfortable, a refugee is a refugee. A refugee is someone who isn’t really welcome in any country- including their own… especially their own.

We live in an apartment building where two other Iraqis are renting. The people in the floor above us are a Christian family from northern Iraq who got chased out of their village by Peshmerga and the family on our floor is a Kurdish family who lost their home in Baghdad to militias and were waiting for immigration to Sweden or Switzerland or some such European refugee haven.

The first evening we arrived, exhausted, dragging suitcases behind us, morale a little bit bruised, the Kurdish family sent over their representative – a 9 year old boy missing two front teeth, holding a lopsided cake, “We’re Abu Mohammed’s house- across from you- mama says if you need anything, just ask- this is our number. Abu Dalia’s family live upstairs, this is their number. We’re all Iraqi too… Welcome to the building.”

I cried that night because for the first time in a long time, so far away from home, I felt the unity that had been stolen from us in 2003.

How could we ever atone for what we’ve done to them?

30. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007

New Ritter up:

/html/6868.html) the American people that he had told world leaders “if you’re interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing [Iran] from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon.” World War III. That is certainly some rhetorical point, especially coming from the man singularly most capable of making such an event reality.

Pundits have raised their eyebrows and comics are busy writing jokes, but the president’s reference to Armageddon, no matter how cavalierly uttered and subsequently brushed away, suggests an alarming context. Some might note that the comment was simply an offhand response to a reporter’s question, the kind of free-thinking scenario that baffles Bush so. In a way, this makes what the president said even more disturbing, since we now have an insight into the vision, and related terminology, which hovers just below the horizon in the brain of George W. Bush.

When I was a weapons inspector with the United Nations, there was a jostling that took place at the end of each day, when decisions needed to be made and authorization documents needed to be signed. In an environment of competing agendas, each of us who championed a position sought to be the “last man in,” namely the person who got to imprint the executive chairman (our decision maker) with the final point of view for the day. Failure to do so could find an inspection or point of investigation sidetracked for days or weeks after the executive chairman became distracted by a competing vision. I understand the concept of “imprinting,” and have seen it in action. What is clear from the president’s remarks is that, far from an innocent rhetorical fumble, his words, and the context in which he employed them, are a clear indication of the imprinting which is taking place behind the scenes at the White House. If the president mentions World War III in the context of Iran’s nuclear program, one can be certain that this is the very sort of discussion that is taking place in the Oval Office.

A critical question, therefore, is who was the last person to “imprint” the president prior to his public allusion to World War III? During his press conference, Bush noted that he awaited the opportunity to confer with his defense secretary, Robert Gates, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice following their recent meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin. So clearly the president hadn’t been imprinted recently by either of the principle players in the formulation of defense and foreign policy. The suspects, then, are quickly whittled down to three: National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley (http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/hadleybio.html) , Vice President Dick Cheney, and God.

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007

It’s a Movement, It’s a Party, It’s Resistance on Capitol Hill

Oil towers and windmills in Independence Avenue, all the doors to Congressional Office Buildings blocked, mucic blasting, dancing polar bears, a faux Blackwater patrol, a reborn SDS, traffic blocked by a wall of kids, everyone arrested, traffic restarted, another group blocking the street again, including Ted Glick who still hasn’t eaten, corporate reporters and staffers annoyed they can’t get across the street but rather uninterested in why, chants of Arrest Bush Not Vets and Arrest Bush Not Kids, banners declaring No War No Warming, code pink, billionaires for warming, more dancing polar bears,

racially and age mixed activists for the first time getting serious and having fun doing it, groups marching in the road and chanting on nearby corners occupying hundreds of Capitol Police (in shorts in October!), equipment confiscated and people (including our friend Zool, who had planned to be arrested later inside the Capitol) arrested haphazardly with no warning, a few people in tears, the old folks learning where the juvenile jail is, and a chant of Resistance Is Forming, No War No Warming. It’s a beautiful day in Washington DC.

32. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007
33. peeder - 22 October 2007

I leave excess plastic bags where the dogwalkers will find them in the park, or at a pet store with walking services… =)

34. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

Who ya’ gonna call?

A dark skinned terrorist. Guess he’s not a Serb or Tim McVeigh.

35. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

So why is JK Rowling trying to stir up the Xtian fundies?

36. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007

Salon picks Chris Floyd to fill in for Greenwild while he’s taking a break.

The prospect of a Democratic victory in 2006 was for many people the last, flickering hope that the degradation of the republic could be arrested and reversed within the ordinary bounds of the political system. This was always a fantasy, given the strong bipartisan nature and decades-long cultivation of greed, arrogance and militarism that has now come to its fullest bloom in the Bush administration. But desperation can crack the shell of the most hardened cynic, and no doubt there were few who did not harbor somewhere deep inside at least a small grain of hope against hope that a slap-down at the polls would give the Bush gang pause and confound its worst depredations.

One year on, we can all see how the Democrats have made a mockery of those dreams. Their epic levels of unpopularity are richly deserved. At every step they evoke the remarks of the emperor Tiberius, who, after yet another round of groveling acquiescence from the once-powerful Roman Senate, dismissed them with muttered contempt: “Men fit to be slaves.” The record of the present Congress provides copious and irrefutable evidence for this judgment.

Color me shocked.

37. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

Color me shocked.

I don’t know. Greenwald’s not really a loyal Democrat and will occasionally bitch out sacred cows like the ADL. So Chris Floyd as his replacement’s no big deal.

The real issue is this: the crowd at Salon and the Democrats feel no threat. That’s when they really tighten up and get vicious about people to the left of the Democrats. It’s not 2000. There’s no Nader in the race. There are no huge anti-war protests. So they can have a bonsai anti-democratic-party firebrand on the payroll.

38. ms_xeno - 22 October 2007

Vilified or disregarded. Sometimes both at once. If you sit this one out and it’s a landslide for Hillthatcher at least you will only be disregarded. Treat it like a vacation.

If Nader runs again I will certainly vote for him again. It’ll be a write-in, of course. As moiv reminded me the other day, there’s always some reason to fill out something on the ballot, no matter how ridiculous you feel doing it.

But it ought to be somebody else. Nader shouldn’t be left (no pun intended) to carry it all alone.

I’m watching. Somebody may surprise me, but I’m guessing it will be a “no-name.” Everyone else is too wrapped up in preserving and enhancing their status. But I’ll gladly take some stammering, geeky, vehemently anti-war “no-name” with bad hair over Hillthatcher. Without hesitation.

39. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007

IOZ: All of the People, All of the Time

The elites that Yglesias identifies–partisan and “establishment”–profit materially and vocationally from empire. It isn’t a structural failure that somehow prevents them from levelling with the grazing people of the heartandhomeland; it is the structure. These people are the harbingers of death. It enriches them. What have they got to gain within their little world from telling you the truth, Yglesias, or me, or anyone? We’re in it together, Matt, you and I. The only difference is that come the next election you’ll pull the lever for Hillary, but prattle on endlessly nevertheless about the relentless catastrophe in Tehran.

40. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007

Anything that pisses off the fundies is okay with me, so go Rowling. They already think she’s working for Satan anyway.

41. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

That passage by Yglesias is so bloody obvious the only thing that confuses me about it is why they paid him to write it?

It reads like a high school term paper.

42. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007
43. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

The thing about the Dumbledore statement. Well, there’s such a thing as the ‘intentional fallacy’. If Rowling didn’t show Dumbledore sleeping with another man in the book, then who’s she to tell us he’s gay?

And of course if Falwell or Robertson had said something like “boycott Harry Potter. I have a feeling Dumbledore’s gay,” we’d all be like “says who. I didn’t see him sleeping with another guy in the book”.

44. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

But of course it’s also set at a British private (public) school.

Not having homosexuality in that kind of setting would be a bit strange.

45. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007

Cheney Lays the Foundation for War

And while I pulled out the passages of the speech that constitute the most undisguised saber-rattling against Iran, the entire speech is worthy of careful study. It shows a man who has disintegrated into a moral sewer. He regales his audience with the need to use torture techniques, which he tells us elsewhere he learned of from “our friends” in the Middle East (a phrase which, I am told, describes the brutal techniques used by the Egyptians.) And he then proceeds to cite a positively insane op-ed by Bernard Lewis, the subject of one of my prior columns, in which the Soviet Union is held up as a wonderful model for the United States. So there you have Dick Cheney wonderfully summed up: traditional U.S. values are for sissies. Real international strongmen torture their own citizens like the Egyptians and bully the neighborhood like the Soviets. Yep, those policies served the Soviet Union very well, as I recall. The country collapsed and its entire southern underbelly was peeled away. It’s enough to make you wonder whether Cheney is on hallucinogens. But this man is at the driver’s wheel of the nation’s national security establishment; he is the most powerful vice president in the nation’s history. And he has a president who knows nothing about the issues, doesn’t care to learn, and follows Cheney’s advice blindly.

46. ms_xeno - 22 October 2007

I’m just sick of hearing about Harry Fucking Potter PERIOD.


That and fucking Buffy, for shit’s sake. I’m dreading Xmas party season because if I don’t consume either universe (and I don’t;They both leave me cold), I’ll be stuck in the corner with nobody to talk to all night. Middle-aged post hipsters consigning me to awkward but well-fed purgatory.


47. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

I’ve never read a single Potter Book and my Buffy experience stops after the middle of season 2.

But I was strangely addicted to the Buffy spinoff Angel for awhile.

48. marisacat - 22 October 2007

Actually… I think picking Chris Floyd as a sub for GG is a big deal.

GG is very much inside the online machine. Feted and awarded by the Dem orgs (DMI that I recall) and both SF Gate and The Nation have detailed the practicaly in house vanity press that marshalled his book(s).

Floyd has none of that.

Whne the righties went after GG last year (and harrassed him for hsi sexuality) I did notice that NOT ONE Blahger stoood up for him. And if there was mention he ws under assault, I sure mssed it.

Other than his sexuality, which does not matter to me but certainly does end up discussed online – the righties exposed a tidbit or two about him that was of interest (inaccuracies in his CV).

Good for Chris Floyd.

49. marisacat - 22 October 2007

I never paid any attention to HP at all.

strikes me Rowling wanted to goose PR, or soemthing.

50. CSTAR - 22 October 2007

# 29 Madman

Atonement? That’s the wrong question. Obviously, I don’t think it’s a question of your or my moral responsability. Nevertheless, as I keep saying, material reparations are the only way to achieve reconciliation. That of course will entail a material cost to us all. Will it ever happen? My guess its that, yes, the enterprise of war sooner or later will fail: particularly as the war entrepreneurs become progressively more reckless and subject to their own delusions. I’m beginning to sound like Lenin, but at least in his assessment of imperialism he may have been right.

51. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

Whne the righties went after GG last year (and harrassed him for hsi sexuality) I did notice that NOT ONE Blahger stoood up for him.

Something I noticed. He actually went after Abe Foxman and the ADL and didn’t pay much of a price for it.

But nobody really joined him. His pal David Niewert linked his stuff about the ADL and barely mentioned what he was attacking.

Then Niewert penned a strangely respectful piece on Michael Medved’s bizarre ideas about slavery (giving him a chance to clarify himself, not smearing him personally), all the while going after Ron Paul with a hatchett.

Yglesias will occasionally attack the lobby too and similary it gets no resonance. His fellow pwog dems seem to think it’s something he’ll grow out of and can safely be ignored.

52. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007

well, most fantasy writers work out elaborate histories and backstories that never make it into the books, so that they can maintain a consistent tone for a character over multiple books. She’s apparently compiling a lot of this material into an encyclopedia of some sort. J. R. Tolkin had piles of material, much of it turned into books by his son. Robert Jordan, I read once, has an elaborate map and timeline spelling out the histories of all the characters and their precursers in the Wheel of Time series.

53. ms_xeno - 22 October 2007

Well, I never gave a rat’s ass about Tolkein, either. Sounds to me like the old line from Ben Hamper’s Rivethead:

“Find a gimmick and milk those udders.” :p

54. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007

I’m not much for the Harry Potter thing myself (give me the “His Dark Materials” trilogy anyday), but Buffy … ms_x, don’t hate me for being a shameless fanboy (hell, I’m actually making a point of going to the local comic store to buy the latest issue of Season 8), but BtVS was some damned fine teevee.

55. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007

Boing Boing links to bunches of resources on the CA fires.

Some of the Google Maps mashups that people have built are pretty amazing.

56. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

Of course I’m looking at Rowling’s outing Dumbledore from the perspective of someone who really doesn’t care who’s gay and who isn’t.

For the vaguely Xtian right wing Middle American who let her/his kids buy the Harry Potter books with some reluctance this is going to confirm his/her worst fears.

Horrible English woman seduces her/his kids with her storytelling ability only to draw them into the evil world of The Ghey. That was the awful English woman’s intentions all along the Satanic hag.

57. ms_xeno - 22 October 2007

Oh, Madman. I’m sorry. I’m a shameless fanboy about a lot of things. It’s just that the constant obsession on the part of everyone I know (almost) is like the hipster’s version of visiting Pittsburgh during football season with mr_xeno. Everyone around you has the uniform, speaks the lingo and you are like a brand-new immigrant– or one too stubborn to learn the tongue beyond what it takes to find out where the rest room is.

OTOH, I can totally recommend CBS’ (????) new vampire-detective show if you’d rather do a MST3K at the screen than sit there in silent adoration. :p (See, I am a shameless MST3K fanboy, but that’s passe’ now and no good for small talk at parties.)

58. marisacat - 22 October 2007

thanks for the boing boing links on the Fire, MitM.

This is one for the books. Had to happen one day…

59. ms_xeno - 22 October 2007

If only Ahnold could figure out how to get the wildfires to do a selective sweep of parts of Oakland and L.A., he’d have it made.

60. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

If only Ahnold could figure out how to get the wildfires to do a selective sweep of parts of Oakland and L.A., he’d have it made.


“We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans. We couldn’t do it, but God did.”

61. marisacat - 22 October 2007

ms xeno

Theyfigure that, sooner or later, the Hayward Fault will kick in and do the work of cleaning the low lands of the East Bay for them…

It is getting increasingly obvioius.

62. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

They finally noticed.


I’ve sort of gotten tired of explaining that, no, the Founding Fathers actually weren’t all born-agains and bible thumpers. Not hardly. (Probably better to say that the great majority ranged from believers in an entirely impersonal God — Deists — to believing Christians who nonetheless viewed popular religious enthusiasm with a polite and paternal disdain.) But presidential candidate and former Arkansas Governoer Mike Huckabee, himself a Baptist minister, actually told a crowd yesterday that “most” of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were “clergymen.” As these folks at Politifact.com point out, one out of 56 were clergymen. It’s a creative definition of ‘most’.

63. ms_xeno - 22 October 2007

Yep, HC. That’s exactly what I was thinking of.

Yeah, Mcat. And when the global-warmed flood waters wash away all the high-priced condos down by the Willamette, they can use eminent domain to seize my home to house a displaced stockbroker and her family. Maybe they’ll let me stay on in the garage as domestic staff.


64. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

If San Diego ever experienced the kind of disaster New Orleans did, we all know Bush would be there the next day dispensing aid.

Glenn Beck is going on about how people in California who hate ‘Merka are losing their houses and ha ha but San Diego and Orange County are as red politically and as white in terms of pigmetn as you can get.

65. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 October 2007

Boing Boing just produces several pieces of linky goodness nearly everyday.

Ms_x … that Moonlight show can’t make up its mind what it wants to be. A friend of mine called it “Beauty and the Beast with fangs” which seemed a pretty good description.

My regular teevee geek viewing this season is pretty much Heroes, Reaper and Supernatural.

I do know what you mean about being a geek out of water, though. I’m constantly befuddled by the love of crap like Stargate, think the Potter books are poorly written compared to a lot of fantasy (I just like that she pisses off the fundies), and being in a room full of Nintendo freaks gets annoying really quick.

66. Hair Club for Men - 22 October 2007

The Netroots think they did this.


Please. Somebody got a no bid contract or something.

67. marisacat - 22 October 2007

Ishmael Reed. Really good.

The only thing he left out, Dellums may be black (he lists white pols who have failed the black community in CA) but like Conyers he is GONE.

This is also about the 4th tick tock I have read just recently on environmental issues in black/minority neighborhoods. (Richmond and issues of the Chevron refinery, trucks stalled on the freeways, incoming at the port, etc., is a good example)

But let’s legislate where you can smoke. That’ll do it.

68. moiv - 22 October 2007

Author: Biased Media Overlook Hillary Clinton’s Injection of Faith Into Politics

Left-wing secularists who oppose religion in the public square may be dismayed to learn that their values apparently conflict with those of Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton (N.Y.), according to the author of a new book on the former first lady’s religious beliefs.

Although many Democrats support a very strict separation of church and state, the front-runner for the party’s presidential nomination does not, Paul Kengor, author of “God and Hillary Clinton,” said in an interview. In fact, Clinton is not reticent about injecting her faith into policy discussions, said Kengor, who teaches political science at Grove City College in Pennsylvania.

And there is a double-standard at play with the media, said Kengor, because they often provide extensive coverage of conservative Republicans who publicly express their religious views, often suggesting that they cross the line between church and state.

Kengor expects this double standard will play out in the 2008 presidential race, as it did in 2000.

Not only did the media not object to Hillary’s annihilation of any barriers separating church and state, but they loved it, and sometimes even cheered her on,” said Kengor.

Kengor added that Clinton’s use of religion, especially in her 2000 Senate run and now in her presidential campaign, is one of the most under-reported aspects of her public career.

While the first lady employed her Christian faith for political purpose in an overt and often aggressive fashion, the “intensely secular, religiously hostile New York press” raised no objections, he said.

The following exchange touches on some of the major points Kengor raised.

Q: What was your purpose in writing this book?

Paul Kengor: The secular liberal press throws open its doors to religious liberals when they use their faith in a way the left approves of, such as the Catholic bishops protesting Reagan’s nuclear policies in the 1980s. But they attack George W. Bush or John Ashcroft or any religious person on the right who says their faith is part of who they are and what they do. This hypocrisy needed exposure.

Q: Is Hillary Clinton sincere in expressing the view that religion has a place in the public square and in the political process, or is she just posturing?

Paul Kengor: Oh, I think it’s sincere. She’s a lawyer, and she has looked at this in an intellectually serious way and understands separation of church and state does not mean what the extremist, secular left says it means.

Clinton believes she ought to be permitted to bring her faith into politics. She’s even complained about people who believe faith should be excluded from the public square.

Q: Can you describe what her appearances were like in churches leading up to her election as senator in 2002? Was this a pure get-out-the-vote effort? How do they contrast with the way President Bush has handled church appearances?

Paul Kengor: We are talking primarily about African-American churches, and she would go into these churches and quote scripture. She would then interpret scripture in such a way to mean you need to go out and vote for us on Tuesday. Just imagine George W. Bush going into a Baptist church in the South and giving one speech like this – he would not able to do this. But Hillary does it without any exposure in the press. I have a number here that says it all. Clinton visited 27 churches in the two months prior to the 2000 election and six on Election Day. Bush visited just three churches in his first three years, and these were for 9/11 memorials whereas Clinton’s were strictly political.

Q: How did Hillary Clinton react to the 2004 elections? Did the influence of evangelicals, conservative Catholics, and pro-life voters move her in any way? Is she now more receptive to values voters?

Paul Kengor: Well, she realized after both the 2000 and 2004 elections that so-called values voters made a real difference for George W. Bush. Between early 2004 and late 2004, she went from demonizing pro-lifers in front of feminist audiences to extending an olive branch after the 2004 vote. She was unbelievably nasty toward pro-lifers at one point, but there’s been a total about-face that can only be explained by her coming to realize she needs some of those votes to win in 2008.

Q: Should we anticipate any type of olive branch toward pro-life voters at the next Democratic convention? Her husband precluded former Pennsylvania Gov. Casey, a pro-lifer, from speaking in 1992. Now that Casey’s son, another pro-lifer, serves in the U.S. Senate, might she reverse her husband’s convention decision?

Paul Kengor: Interesting, I don’t think so. She’ll change her rhetoric toward pro-lifers but she will not change any of her policy stances. Nothing impassions her like abortion rights, and she’s not going to change on the substance one bit.

Q: How does she reconcile her abortion stance with her Christian convictions?

Paul Kengor: Keep in mind that her church, the United Methodist Church, supports legal abortion. It is a member of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. Remember, Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackmun was also a Methodist.

Q: What would you like to ask Hillary Clinton?

Paul Kengor: I’d ask, “Do you believe that life begins at conception? What do you think Jesus would say about abortion?” I think she realizes that if you acknowledge life begins at conception and that the fetus in the womb is human life, then right away you’re in trouble when you start saying abortion is okay. A lot of pro-choicers think it’s sophisticated, like a sign of nuance or complexity to acknowledge life begins at conception but then to offer some rationale. I think Hillary is smart to realize that once you acknowledge life begins at conception, you are in trouble right away on abortion because you must concede a life is being terminated.

69. moiv - 22 October 2007
70. marisacat - 22 October 2007

Joan Crawford in some nun’s get up.

We are in such trouble. (thanks moiv)

71. moiv - 22 October 2007

That second link hammers Obama pretty hard, too . . . in a nice way.

Yep, pretty well skrewed.

72. marisacat - 22 October 2007

well Kengor seems to go back and forth about her as well. Apologist at some points, a bit tougher at others.

it is just unacceptable to me. Really, nothing left in common with America – not anymore. I don’t think there will be any coming back from this, not soon.

73. moiv - 22 October 2007

In other religious news, Ratzy lectures President Michelle Bachelet on the importance of keeping Chile’s “pro-life perspective” — i.e., not enough women will keep dying from self-induced abortion unless they pull those morning-after pills out of the pharmacies.

74. moiv - 22 October 2007

And here, the US bishops prepare to instruct the Catholic vote.

75. moiv - 22 October 2007

Fox News will have what they call a “groundbreaking” report on abortion this weekend — presumably because while it’s chock-full of full of “agonizing human choices,” at least there are no politicians in it.

76. wu ming - 23 October 2007

those san diego fires look especially bad, fire chief was saying they may well burn right to the sea. it’s been such a dry year, and this winter’s forecast to be about the same. and the national guard still in iraq. they’re fucked.

as for the census numbers:

san diego county:
non-hispanic white:52%
hispanic/latino: 30%
asian: 10%
black: 6%

orange county
non-hispanic white: 48%
hispanic/latino: 33%
asian: 16%
black: 2%


san diego county
republican: 39%
democratic: 34%
decline to state: 22%

orange county
republican: 47%
democratic: 30%
decline to state: 19%

so yeah, narrow majority anglo and pretty republican (and some incredibly reactionary ones at that) but you can get get a lot whiter and a lot more republican than that in this state, up north of here in the sacramento valley. the power of OC and san diego are in their money and size of population, not relative wingnut density.

i’ll bet that the devastation will be used as leverage to greenlight that blackwater base they’ve been trying to build down there.

77. marisacat - 23 October 2007

Gates is sending out 6 C-130 transport planes to assist in the firefighting. They are due tomorrow. Not Fema, not Chertoff, GATES.

Fire broke out Sunday am, went massive late in the day, over night and on day 3 help from the very top at DOD in DC.

78. moiv - 23 October 2007

I’ve been reading that National Guard units are being pulled off their border surveillance posts to assist with fire control. One more Blackwater window of opportunity.

The Little Prince had better hustle, before the brown-skinned hordes literally walk through fire to be first in line for all the new construction jobs that will be opening up.

79. moiv - 23 October 2007

Yes, I’ve seen that about Gates sending the C-130s, too. And FEMA nowhere in sight.

80. marisacat - 23 October 2007

Meanwhile I am listening to Hadley on with Charlie. Right now they are renditions.

Let me out of here!

81. marisacat - 23 October 2007

Now they are parsing torture. “Techniques”.

82. moiv - 23 October 2007

Torture for suspected terrorists is acceptable when diminished as “techniques” of enhanced interrogation, but abortion cannot possibly be acceptable unless it’s absolutely “agonizing” for women.

Madness, all of it.

83. marisacat - 23 October 2007

Good article just up at the Ventura Star… lots of side bar graphics:

“Santa Anas come in four sizes,” said Bill Patzert, a climatologist at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena. “Small, medium, large and Godzilla. This one is definitely a Godzilla.”

It mentions a lot of underbrush and “fuel on the ground” still unburned, a winter due with little rain…

That sounds like killer fires late winter, early spring. And the state, DOD, Arnold and their private systems will be ready to go.

Just a wild guess.

84. wu ming - 23 October 2007

my cousin in san diego tells me (caveat: no idea if this is rumor or not) that because there was no official pronouncement of a federal disaster area, that the military planes at miramar stayed on the ground when they could have been of some help. now the planes have all been evacuated.

85. BooHooHooMan - 23 October 2007

# 78 But moiv, that’s the Idea…. The Little Prince had better hustle, before the brown-skinned hordes literally walk through fire to be first in line for all the new construction jobs that will be opening up.

Prince = pimp. All contractors on la teat.. Such an interesting set those hustling for a cut of disaster relief. Two cons really; Those just “doin the Lords work” , then there are the for-reasonable-profit technical competence pimping thieves, pretty easy to figure out, really….

Its all just a firewall away from exposing the greater ruse….

86. Miss Devore - 23 October 2007

Isn’t it about time for an xtian wacko to come out and say that the fires are a result of San Diego’s mayor endorsing gay marriage?

87. marisacat - 23 October 2007

welllllllllllll god burned down the Presbyterian church in Malibu.

And the “castle”, Castle Kashan above Malibu, of the daughter of a former Iranian oil minister.

Looks like god slipped.

88. Miss Devore - 23 October 2007

never heard about that castle until today, and I spent a lot of time studying quirky socal architecture. well, I guess one could say socal gives opportunities to wealthy women.

Madame Ganna Walska did a good thing with Lotusland, I think.

89. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

wow moiv, that set of links you put up is enough to make you want to crawl into the bottom of a bottle and hide.

90. ms_xeno - 23 October 2007

MissD, have you considered issuing the statement yourself as some kind of costumed performance piece ? (ie– “Ladies Against Women” from the old days)

I myself will be hard at work on my “Fatsos For Huckabee” campaign page as soon as I think up a snappy acronym for it. 😉

Madman, I have been spared the Nintendo freaks, unless that also encompasses “Wii” fans.

“Wii” gives me nightmares. Once more reason to thank my lucky stars that I never spawned. :/

91. marisacat - 23 October 2007

LAT has a restrospective opinion piece up – on the seasonal fires and the Santa Anas…

from one of the quotes in the piece:

But although we know that wildfire is for the most part natural and impossible to suppress, we seem incapable of disengaging from our war against it. We have built the world’s largest firefighting force, an army of many thousands, equipped with helicopters and planes, engines and ‘dozers. We’ve increased federal spending against wildfires sixfold since 1991 — up to $2.3 billion this year and a planned $2.9 billion next year — with about half that increase coming in the National Fire Plan, a behemoth that seeks not only to fight wildfires but also to reduce their fuel through thinning, pruning, raking and other “mechanical” treatments. This is touted as reform, but really it is more war, in that fire is still cast as the enemy.

If this were a Hollywood movie, it would be a sequel — or worse, a tired franchise […]

There are ways we could break out of this cycle. We could expect the people who live in fire zones to take responsibility for their choices, we could end a long list of subsidies that includes road extensions, fire crews, insurance rates that don’t reflect the specific risk, even federally backed fire-zone mortgages. We could get more realistic with regulations on how the fire zone is built in and landscaped, instead of the piecemeal, often weak regulations we have now. And we could accept wildfires, requiring prescribed burns, allowing lightning-ignited blazes to burn themselves out, as the seasonal price of living in the West. If we don’t do that, we’re stuck in sequel after sequel.

Arnold is out and about today, being gagworthy.

92. ms_xeno - 23 October 2007

The rule of thumb in America is: The more choices you can afford to buy, the less responsible you are for the consequences.

That is much on my mind given my town’s own layout, probable future environmental issues, and exactly where the monied folks tend to be concentrated.

93. marisacat - 23 October 2007

it’s the Maria und Arnold show. all the damned day.

94. lucid - 23 October 2007

But I was strangely addicted to the Buffy spinoff Angel for awhile.

My best friend from high school was one of the editors. And they paid $5,000 for a 30 second snippet of a song in one episode.

95. JJB - 23 October 2007

MCat, no. 3,

I’m pretty happy with how this one went.

One can only assume he’d had his head handed to him. At the moment of surrender at Stalingrad, von Paulus probably said the same thing, with as little reason to be pleased as DB.

96. wu ming - 23 October 2007

that last passage from ’94 is fantastic:

And in the days before the Bobbitt and the Harding, whilst mad King Rodney careened with his chariots down the 210 past the towers of Megiddo to the Valley; before King Bradley banged his head against the city’s Gates whilst gangbangers banged elsewhere; before Michael and the Men of Endez and Heidi were brought low, and Riordan, Feinstein and Boxer raised on high; lo, even then, the Lord hardened his heart against the City of Angels, against the Malibites and Bevites, the Westsiders and the Valleyites; yea, even unto the chariot makers of Orange County and Van Nuys, and there was a scourge upon the land.

And the Lord said unto the denizens of the South, behold, though ye have waged my battles faithfully, I shall rust thy swords and diffuse thy lasers; neither shall thy patriots fly true nor thy spysats see straight. For thou hast become too proud in thy victory–and this Bush that burns brightly without being consumed, neither by Irangate nor by the vision thing, is the worst offender. For this, thy weapons shall become as a glut upon the market. Neither shall thee make batteries for thy cars nor shall thee cobble chips for Nippon. And a smoggy pall fell upon the land, and the hammers became still, and home equity became as for naught.

And the Lord then said unto Daryl, stretch out thy Rod and smite this man of Cush in the kidneys, that he might feel the billy club of G-d. But an Evil Eye beheld this travesty, and the people rose up in anger, and the city burned and gave up its treasures. And Daryl’s corporals stood silent and sullen, for their E-mail system worked not, and they knew not of any beating or mayhem and heard not of this Denny. And, as the judges pondered, there was a wailing from Sou’ Central and Simi to Seoul.

And the Lord said unto a schizoid shepherd in the hills of Moab, rise up early in the morning and light thy campfire and cast its sparks upon the brush, and I will send swarms of Santa Anas to give them succor. And the land was ruined by fire whilst the Malibites gnashed their teeth. But when the smoke cleared, the Lord hardened their hearts. And though their sages said rebuild not, for neither man nor beast may dwell safely in these places, they flocked back through the Valley of Topanga unto the waters of the Dead Sea. And though their wells of Perrier were tainted with benzene, and tasted as of blood, they set up their tents and renewed their cable service.

i really gotta read mike davis’ ecology of fear. socal is such a foreign place to me.

97. marisacat - 23 October 2007

95 – JJB

Oh no, he is being honest there. It was something to watch, days worth of ogiastic clover snorting for DB


wu ming… 96

speaking of So Cal and the lay of the land, I was reading a thread of Kevin Drum’s last night … he put up the passage of Joan Didion’s on the Santa Ana winds and said as a Socal person it made no sense to him.

Half the thread said it did make sense to them (LA, SOCAL natives or long time dwellers) and some put up the related quotes on the winds from Raymond Chandler and Earl Stanley Gardner.

I used to fly into San Diego, twice a year thru 5 years in the 90s… and watched the exploding development from the plane.

One thing is very certain, CA is over built.

98. wozzle - 23 October 2007

SoCal is the icon for everything that is killing us all. I have sympathy for them, because very few of them understand what “insupportable” means. That is not a word that occurred to this nation until the 70s, and Calis didn’t get the message until the 90s.

Bill Richardson, bless his heart, put it all into sharp focus for me with his “Look at Wisconsin…” remark. An he’s from New Mexicali…

99. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

New hit piece on Kucinich. Obama’s anti-gay singer’s being given extensive play. The ongoing smearing of Ron Paul as a racist.

Looks like the Hillary campaign is hitting all cylinders.

100. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

Leadoff comment in the Kos anti-Kucinich hit thread is the anti-Ron-Paul hit diarist.



101. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

Note. Since Kos is intent on taking Shirley McClain’s word for it, here’s my gut feeling.

Shirley: Dennis. Look at that, a UFO.

Kucinich: (Looking at her breasts): Huh?

Shirley: The UFO. Do you see it.

Kucinich: Oh yeah.

Of course Kucinich could be a UFO freak but I’m not sure why I’d want to take Shirley McClain’s word for it then spread it around the internet.

Unless I were a pro-war Dem intent on making any anti-war voice look crazy.

102. marisacat - 23 October 2007

Speaking of SoCal (and NorCal as well)

about 25 years ago I caught a news report from one of the cantelivered hill top/canyon/ravines/ etc of SoCal… the Merc from one of the homes at the top somehow rolled off that property, fell however many feet to the lower level (still cantelievered into the landscape) and crashed nose down into the pool. As with some events, it happened slightly before 7 am on a weekend.

The mother/woman/lady of the house in the lower property whined:

what if the children had been in the pool?

I don’t know, hon, what if…

The development needed to be managed so differently, with stringent rules for materials used, cleared land and density.

But………. thar she blows.

103. lucid - 23 October 2007

I’m a trekkie… I see nothing irrational about believing in UFO’s. I really find it hilarious that people use belief in alien species as an indicator that someone is ‘off’. I usually take disbelief in alien species as indicative of someone with a closed mind.

104. wu ming - 23 October 2007

i tend to agree, marisa. of course, if one was to center new development in a place more sustainable WRT water and resources on the basis of not overstretching resources, i suspect the northwest folks (many of whom are transplants or children of transplants posing as outraged natives) would throw a bigger fit than they already are about californians moving in.

wherever you look on the west coast, it seems like there’s some natural disaster lurking around the corner, be it fire, flood, landslide, earthquake, volcanoes, or carefully cultivated racial tensions. (and it’s not like ther rest of the country is any less free from hurricanes, drought, blizzards, tornadoes, river floods, etc.) the hill exurbs of socal seem to me to be the most absurd, but i’m not sure that we’re really sustainable and safe anywhere in this state. i suspect that to become so would take a lot of public infrastructure money to set up, and would require radical changes in how we define the good life.

which i’m more than OK with, because the old deal is a ripoff.

105. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

I’m a trekkie… I see nothing irrational about believing in UFO’s. I really find it hilarious that people use belief in alien species as an indicator that someone is ‘off’. I usually take disbelief in alien species as indicative of someone with a closed mind.

I’m just curious about why they ignored the Huckabee flub about the Declaration and honed in on an unconfirmed story about Kucinich when (in all fairness) he could have been high.

Oh right. They’re right wingers…

106. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

i suspect the northwest folks (many of whom are transplants or children of transplants posing as outraged natives) would throw a bigger fit than they already are about californians moving in.

Washington State’s going to lose the snowpack too though when the earth warms up, aren’t they?

107. marisacat - 23 October 2007

well millions live on flood plains as well.

Probably the last lucky middle class and/or ordinary Americans were those flooded in the flood plains under the old FEMA during Clinton.

108. wozzle - 23 October 2007

Yeah, Mcat, the 93 flood victims (Mzsippi/Mzouri) recovered quickly. Of course many of them discovered that the river silts replenished their rather depleted soil. And those along the bottoms are being bought out by F&WS, for protection of the flyways and extension of the wildlife preserves.

Big differences between rural and urban recoveries.

109. lucid - 23 October 2007

If there is anyplace that represents the absurdity of our unsustainable culture, I think it is Phoenix. Middle of the freaking dessert & people have big green lawns, maintained only by emptying the Colorado river watershed…

110. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

WTF? Why is the “gay lobby” going after Obama? I don’t get it? Yeah, Donny McLurkin is an asshole but every candidate’s got stuff like this his staff fucked up about? Why not concentrate on Hillary’s prayer breakfasts?

Do they not even want this race to look UN predetermined?

111. Miss Devore - 23 October 2007

Oh Jesette, I posted the UFO story at pff. You think the story could diminish Kucinich’s chances? Is it possible that an antiwar candidate is a weak candidate, a ritual contrarian on the political scene?

112. marisacat - 23 October 2007

well 2 have died now so if they ever determined who were the original arsonists in SOcal, it will carry a murder charge.

113. ms_xeno - 23 October 2007

Funny you should mention all that, wu ming. There’s an attempted revamp of the last Portland land-use revamp up for a vote (by mail-in) this month.

I’ll dig around for it later, if anyone’s interested.

I personally don’t give a flying leap where people move from. The selective hostility towards California transplants is, so far as I can tell, mostly territorial pissing from one side of the border to the other. Not unlike the ire between NY-ers and NJ-ites when I lived back there.

Nobody wants to see a play about people living next door to toxic waste. They can see that in New Jersey !! — Michael Dorsey’s agent from *Tootsie*, circa 1982 ???

Of course, the last Cal. transplant I met turned out to be a class-A shitheel, but I don’t take it as part of an overall pattern.

114. ms_xeno - 23 October 2007

I would love to xeriscape my entire lot. Grass sucks anyway. I never water it in the summer because who feels like cutting grass in the heat ?

Xeriscaping comes recommended by the Peak Oil experts who also predict shorter, more intense rainy seasons and longer stretches of very dry weather with the advancement of global warming. Too bad it runs into major bucks when I can’t even afford to have the house painted. :/

115. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

Oh Jesette, I posted the UFO story at pff. You think the story could diminish Kucinich’s chances? Is

Kucinich doesn’t have a chance. Neither do Obama or Edwards. So, no.

Kucinich is a weak candidate. But, then again, they set Dean up with the amplified mike so when I see these kinds of things about outsiders to the mainstream pro-war dems, my bullshit detecter goes off.

And even if this doesn’t really affect Kucinich’s chances, it’s still going to affect his credability in Congress and he’s one of the few decent people there.

So any “progressive’ might want to wait to get Kucinich’s response.

But then again, who cares. Kucinich’s UFO, Obama’s anti-gay singer, the pro Ron Paul posts on Stormfront, Edwards’ bloggers, the whole process is just ridiculous.

116. marisacat - 23 October 2007

Bush comes into CA on Thursday.

117. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007


what did Richardson say about Wisconsin? Was it the thing about stealing our water to feed the lawns of snowbirds down in his fucking desert?

118. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

wherever you look on the west coast, it seems like there’s some natural disaster lurking around the corner, be it fire, flood, landslide, earthquake, volcanoes, or carefully cultivated racial tensions.

Not to mention Britney, Lindsey Lohan and Gary Busey when he’s been drinking.

119. marisacat - 23 October 2007

oh just snare them most nights on the PCH… LOL.

Or Cosby’s kid in a 130K sports car, who ran afoul of the Russian car gangs.

Much to see and do in Cali.

120. wozzle - 23 October 2007

117, MitM, yeah, it pissed me off – not that bit about using Great Lakes water – use is not necessarily abuse – but the fact that he put absolutely no damn thought into a proposal of that nature. Fucking idiot masquerading as a policy person.

People running for President really ought to take a test first – no pass, no amassing dollars…

121. wozzle - 23 October 2007

Fave drunken lout – Nick “I used to be a star” Nolte.

Fave turnabout – Sean “I used to beat up paparazzi for Madonna” Penn.

122. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

Pissed a lot of people up here off … though some wag I read somewhere pointed out that there wasn’t gonna be much left to steal after Waukesha County gets their sprawling suburban mits on the Lakes.

Development should be limited to take into account the limits of the watershed that a community has at hand.

As for a test, they only test that matters is how well you fundraise.

123. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

Prior Permission From Government to be Required for Each Flight

The Transportation Security Administration and the Department of Homeland Security are quietly pushing for a set of crazy new rules. All travellers in the U.S. will be required to get government-issued credentials and official clearance before every flight, both within the United States as well as internationally.

And Monday we received a new political action alert from Edward Hasbrouk, The Practical Nomad blogger who’s been fighting the plan (and who testified about it at a TSA hearing). “The international Advance Passenger Information System rules were published, as ‘final’ effective February 19,2008, with no further opportunity for public comment even on the changes from the original proposal.”

124. melvin - 23 October 2007

114: ms xeno — Somewhere near you there is a garden club or two and almost certainly a native plant society. Google your state & native plants. Ask them and your nearest extension agent for help. You do have one and that is her job.

It doesn\’t have to be so expensive. Native plants will come up from seed if the competition is just knocked out of the way.

125. marisacat - 23 October 2007

All travellers in the U.S. will be required to get government-issued credentials and official clearance before every flight, both within the United States as well as internationally.


126. CSTAR - 23 October 2007

All travellers in the U.S. will be required to get government-issued credentials and official clearance before every flight…
What planet are these people living on? Imagine travelling with kids.

127. wu ming - 23 October 2007

damn, madman.

ms xeno – i’ve found that the harder part is the time and effort required for the yardwork. as long as you’re not buying big trees and shrubs, it’s fairly cheap to plant native plants. i got a lot of the stuff in my yard from a local university plant fair, which might also be a place to look.

128. wu ming - 23 October 2007

that reminds me, time to get the kid’s passport in order.

129. wu ming - 23 October 2007

oh, and BTW, ms_xeno, i wanted to clarify that my jab at northwesterners wasn’t aimed at you. i took a lot of shit up there in college for having a california driver’s license, and get a bit cranky on the subject occasionally. apologies if it came off that way.

130. moiv - 23 October 2007

dengre is up at DK, on the reclist with Meet the Tan Family: corrupt patrons of the GOP & HRC

Nobody is noticing the Tan Family, their record of abuse and the money they contribute to the GOP and HRC. But we should pay attention. They are not small time players.

The Tan Family controls a massive empire of businesses that stretch the globe. Every year, hundreds of millions of dollars move through their vast empire. They have a constant stream of business before the government of the United States and since 1999 when Abramoff and DeLay successfully shut down reform on the Marianas Islands, most of the Tan Family legislative goals have had almost nothing to do with sweatshops on the CNMI.

I know that supporters of HRC are quick to dismiss any questions about their candidate as just another “Right-wing” smear and defensively claim that any questioning of her by Democrats and/or progressives might be used by the VRWC to attack her and all Democrats. Still, their dedication to a culture of fear does not exempt HRC from scrutiny or excuse wrong-doing. I can not be quiet because some in my Party are afraid of the noise machine on the Right. Whether it is the GOP or HRC, taking money from the Tan Family is and always will be a problem

I’ve done enough follow-up digging to know that there is more to this story—especially the massive donations from the Tan Family to the GOP (but also the money to HRC). Many more shoes will drop and the drip, drip, drip nature of this has just begun.

I research scandals. As part of my own due diligence on the Democrats running, I have looked into their purported “scandals”. The stuff on Edwards and Obama is carved out of smoke. So is most of the stuff the RW has thrown at HRC. This money from the Tan Family is different (IMHO). There could be a reasonable explanation, but I’ve done enough follow-up digging to know that the $10,000 is a problem.


Because of the way the Tan Family operates and the nature of the businesses they run.

131. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

Good places to keep up on the scary assaults on personal privacy:



http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/ (Threat Level)

Not all dedicated to security and privacy, but usually good links to the REALLY obsessive sites that do. Threat Level and Schneier are both really good on airport security.

132. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

After a pretty funny/cutting description of Houston, Kunstler relates some of the presentations that were given at a recent Peak Oil conference:

So, while the price of oil ratcheted up hour by hour, the ASPO conference members heard from an impressive range of experts who have been leading the public conversation on the Peak Oil story – with no help from the mainstream media or the political sector. Among them were Robert Hirsch, co-author of the now-famous 2005 Hirsch Report, commissioned by the US Department of Energy, which, much to the consternation of its sponsor, first told the nation in no uncertain terms that it was heading for a catastrophic set of disruptions in “normal” American life if we heedlessly continued energy business-as-usual. Hirsch went a little further now, two years on, than he had in his famous report, predicting a future of “oil export withholding,” panicked markets, and allocation disturbances that would make the 1973 OPEC embargo look like a golden age.

Matt Simmons, the leading investment banker to the oil industry, who has worked tirelessly to lift public awareness of Peak Oil, also raised the specter of shortages, telling the audience that market allocation problems in the near future would almost certainly induce “hoarding behavior” among the public that would cripple the economy, lead to enforced rationing, and shock the nation. Simmons compared the current public mood over energy issues to a “fog of war.” He also repeated his oft-stated opinion that the drilling rigs and other equipment used around the world to pump oil out of the ground are so uniformly old and decrepit that they pose a problem every bit as dire as peak oil itself. In the meantime, he said, to offset climbing prices, the developed nations have lately dipped so deeply into their accumulated stocks of crude and “refined product” that some countries may breach what is called their “minimum operating levels.” Offstage, he told me, “We’re too preoccupied trying to figure out the exact date of the peak. Meanwhile, we’ll drain the gasoline pool and it will be gone forever.”

The other most significant contribution came from Texas geologist Jeffrey Brown who presented a full-blown version of his theory that world export rates from the countries with oil to sell are liable to decline so much more sharply than their actual production decline rates that the world would be thrust into an oil export crisis within the next five years – and that this export crisis would turn out to be the defining condition of the Peak Oil story.

There were plenty of other fruitful contributions on subjects ranging from the future of the airline industry to reviving passenger rail service, to the question of nuclear power. And there was one real clunker presentation by a shill from the Toyota corporation, designed to blow green smoke up the audience’s ass about the future of happy motoring (Toyota’s products will save it from Peak Oil).

For coverage of the particulars, visit TheOilDrum.com, the nation’s best energy discussion website.

If there were reporters from the mainstream media present at this event, I didn’t run into of them. They are apparently uninterested in the fate of industrial economies, at least as long as Senator Larry Craig is out there on the frontiers of toilet coaching science, and Britney Spears is still sparring with K-Fed, and Diddy is beating people up in nightclubs, and people are murdering their friends for dissing their dogs.

133. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

All travellers in the U.S. will be required to get government-issued credentials and official clearance before every flight…

If they start requiring passports for interstate travel, the Lincoln Tunnel’s really going to be a bitch at rush hour.

134. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

NYC isn’t already an international border HCfM?

135. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

NYC’s more of a giant gated community. Eventually they’re going to kick me out along with the squeegee men but that’s a few years off.

Then I’ll have to stay in New Jersey which (dirty little secret) seems to have more cops per square mile than anyplace in the US I’ve ever lived. I think it’s the legacy of the riots 40 years ago. The white flight towns never skip on cops.

I think I’ve also figured out what bothers me about the “Ron Paul is a racist” line coming out of the netroots (Hillary campaign). And I think what helped me figure it out is the way the same tactics are being used on Obama.

Politics as gated community.

OK. You’ve got media matters as the child of David Brock. It’s about turning dirty politics around and using them for the left, Lee Atwater in a progressive cause.

So you find one or two negative things about a candidate, Kucinich’s slightly loopy personality, Paul’s racist supporters, Edwards’ anti-religous feminist bloggers, and now Obama’s homophobic singer.

This isn’t to defend Paul’s racists, Obama’s homophobes, Amanda Marcotte or Kucinich’s aliens.

BUT, this kind of politics favors the front runners/insiders. It leads to politics as a gated community. You’ll never see the same thing being used on Hillary (until of course the general election) or any of the “mainstream” neocon Republicans because they have the cable news networks and the media on their side. They have plenty of money to hire media hit people.

Look at the difference between Obama and McCain. Obama’s obviously not a homophobe but yes he’s hired a homophobic asshole for his campaign.

But call me when anybody zeros in with the same intensity on McCain’s savings and loan past. How dare this CROOK run against Woodstock (what a fucking retarded line he used) when he’s got more to be ashamed of than smoking pot and listening to Jimi Hendrix. But you’ll never hear this, even from the progressive netroots because even the internet is designed to week out outsiders.

Papers please.

136. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

George Carlin on Countdown:

I don’t think that Frank Church committee did any good. I don’t think all of these reforms … power does what it wants. Power does what it wants, and now they’re just more naked about it. Now they put just right out front, and say ‘this is what we’re doin’ to you, folks’. It’s ummm, this country’s finished. It’s been sliding downhill a long time, and everybody’s got a cell phone that makes pancakes, so they don’t want to rock the boat. They don’t want to make any trouble. People have been bought off by gizmos and toys in this country. Nobody questions anything anymore.

137. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

well, Paul has a long history with the white supremacist movement. He is a racist, and a pretty vile misogynist too. One of the most galling things about this campaign season is that one of the few people who is speaking clearly about our Constitutional crisis and the war is such a disgusting character.

138. marisacat - 23 October 2007

The Clintons have a strangle hold on the party. They have systematically cut off opposition for many years now. IMO they also have a hold on media.

I think the R party slashed at McCain in hidden ways. From inside his campaign to be frank.

The old Savings and Loan criminality and fraud is not brought up much, at all.

139. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

Niewert on Paul, with lots of links.

140. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

One of the most galling things about this campaign season is that one of the few people who is speaking clearly about our Constitutional crisis and the war is such a disgusting character.

To tell you the truth he’s not very important.

Here’s the sequence:

1.) Dems win in 2006 because anti-war independents leave the Republicans. There’s a clear mandate to end the war and a somewhat less clear mandate to impeach.

2.) Hilllary jumps in the presidential race early in order to head off impeachment. Pelosi and Reid cover her ass by threatening Conyers.

3.) Edwards and Obama jump in for fear they’ll fall so far behind in fund raising they’ll never get back in.

4.) SLAM. Impeachment and defunding the war is off the table.

5.) The debates begin. Gravel, Kucinich and Paul keep them from turning into Nuremberg rallies. With impeachment and defunding the war out of the question, the insiders turn to get rid of the annoying three flies in the ointment making the debates a little too interesting. First they try not calling on them during the debates but that doesn’t work. Then they go for the smear jobs.

6.) Paul has a bit more of a grassroots movement than Kucinich and Gravel so he gets smeared a bit more.

And that’s the pathetic state we’re in. Had the Dems impeached a few months ago or even made a move to defund the war, nobody outside of Texas would have ever heard of Ron Paul.

But since he’s one of the only politicians likely to speak out against internal passports and the draft, he becomes one of the lesser evils in the political arena.

141. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

Chris Floyd for Glenn Greenwald: Rain of terror in the U.S. air war in Iraq

As I’ve noted elsewhere, this rising mound of innocent dead is the inevitable consequence of trying to maintain the occupation and control of another country while minimizing impolitic losses to one’s ground forces. And there would actually be even more of this under the nonwithdrawal “withdrawal” plans of the leading Democrats, all of which call for retaining some sort of “residual” force in Iraq. The only way to protect such a diminished, isolated but still very present and provocative force is through the increased use of airpower. So once again, we see the bipartisan nature of the ongoing war crime in Iraq.

What we are also seeing with this strategy is, to put it plainly, an attempt to terrorize a civilian population into submission. Let’s strip away all the political gamesmanship and partisan point scoring that encrusts the Beltway debate — that hideous masque of red death, where fine-dining blowhards prate and prance to the music of keening mothers and dying soldiers. Let’s break down the on-message jargon and lumps of propaganda into the base elements of truth. For what the air campaign, and the “offensives into neighborhoods,” are really saying is brutally frank:

“We invaded your country under knowingly false pretenses, fixing the intelligence around the policy, because our leaders, who were in possession of vast amounts of intelligence that undermined or refuted their stated casus belli, couldn’t reveal their true, long-held intentions. (‘I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil,’ Alan Greenspan says.) We destroyed your infrastructure, we destroyed your society, we destroyed your history, we enthroned extremist militias to rule over you, we tortured your sons and fathers in the same hellhole that Saddam used, we killed a million of your people and drove millions more from their homes. And we intend to stay here for as long as we like, in the vast ‘enduring bases’ we are building on your land. Now if you don’t accept this, if you keep shooting at us and trying to make us leave, then we will go on bombing your families in their homes, we will go on killing your women and children, until you stop.”

The military tactic of close air support in a firefight is not the issue here. The issue is why the U.S. military is engaged in this Iraqi urban warfare, with its inevitable killing of civilians, in the first place. And the reason is that George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and their cohorts have made the deliberate, conscious decision to engage in state terrorism in order to advance foreign policy and energy objectives they held long before 9/11 “changed the world.”

That is the true context, and content, of the war. Anyone who supports its continuation — under any auspices, in any form, for any amount of time longer than it takes to remove all the troops quickly and safely — is advocating the perpetuation of state terror in the name of the American people.

142. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

of course he’s not important … the crime is that the truth is allowed to come ONLY from an easily impeachable source.

143. BooHooHooMan - 23 October 2007

Note Well: User # 1489 cries “Uncle”

by nota bene
Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 06:32:16 PM PDT


144. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

Niewert on Paul, with lots of links.

Where are Niewert’s links on Hillary’s ties to the Christian right? They don’t exist.

Niewert’s a pretty narrow guy. His one concern is to keep extremists from infiltrating the mainstream.

But his brain shortcircuits once extremists get into the mainstream. You’ll never see him talk about Giuliani’s times being interviewed on the Bob Grant show or how the NYPD used torture while he was in office or how he refused to meet with any black leaders or his connections to the most hard core neocons because Rudy is a media darling and, thus, mainstream.

One wonders what Niewert would have made of Malcolm X and his “extremist” past.

145. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

the crime is that the truth is allowed to come ONLY from an easily impeachable source.

And when the truth comes out of a much less impeachable source, he gets smeared in the same way.

A good example would be Jimmy Carter. He’s been smeared ten ways to sunset as an anti-semite but he seems to have survived and even gotten stronger because of it.

146. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

I think an important question to ask when looking at Paul is this:

What are the independents who voted for Democrats in 2006 going to do now that it’s obvious these independents were used as useful idiots by the Democrats?

The Democrats think these votes will still be around in 2008 BUT there’s some anxiety which partly explains the overkill about Ron Paul.

I mean Jesus, sit back and enjoy how he annoys Giuliani. What’s the problem? He’s not going to win the nomination? If he runs as a third party candidate he’ll hurt the Republicans more than you?

Why all the fuss?

It’s got to be anxiety about the anti-war independents.

147. marisacat - 23 October 2007

why were Dems so publically frantic, vindictive to supporters and STILL TO THIS DAY rant and rave about nader.

Hell he never had a chance… he should have been able to achieve 5% but was denied.

I think it is the old time Dem party repression, oppression and thug work.

I mean look at what they did to Howard. And he took it and in fact went even further inside the party. He is reduced to chatting about ringing doorbells (NYT, two days ago)

Peole are going to kick themselves for voting for the Dems in 08. Plenty will be on board, and, imo, plenty of conservative Ind and a smatter of R.

Be interesting ot see how it plays out.

And menwhile Dems will talk about Coulter and follow the latest MM hype (some small bullshite, all too often) and and and and and…

148. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

why were Dems so publically frantic, vindictive to supporters and STILL TO THIS DAY rant and rave about nader

Nader vs. Jesse Jackson

1980s: Jesse looks viable as a presidential candidate from the left. The party wants to move right so they smear him as an anti-semite etc. Jesse responds by cozying up too close to the party and ruining the chances of a genuine third party.

1990s: OK. You’ve got an interesting combination of rebellion and dissent from the left and from the right. You start out with Perot (who’s anti-globalist) and some of the militia types. But this dissent from the right gets subsumed into Clinton hate and terrorism and scares people off.

Late 90s. You get a real upsurge from the left. You get the environmentalists in Northern California (Julia Butterfly Hill et al) and the anti-globalist protests, which after Seattle get very large and very militant.

This terrifies the Dems. They want to destroy it.

Nader runs in 2000 as a reaction to Jesse Jackson’s failure in some ways. The race gets knotted in Florida and guess what?

The Dems are more interested in destroying the dissent from the left than in fighting for the White House. They think they can back down in 2000, scream like bloody hell about Nader and use him to destroy the anti-globalist/anti-corporate movement and then come back in 2002.

They never counted on 9/11.

But it’s clear now the mainstream corporate Dems have a common cause with the Republican right to keep any grassroots dissent down.

In 2002 this meant smearing the anti-war movement as pro Kim Jung Il etc while backing down to Bush.

In 2007 it means continuing to smear Kucinich and the left and also smearing any neo Perot/neo militia type dissent that comes from the right. They’re terrified of Paul as another Perot. It’ s not that he’ll take votes. It’s that he’ll blow open the option to a third party again and open the door for another Nader.

149. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

Oh and part of the hysteria on Kos about the debates being hosted by Fox was to avoid the real question of the debates being run by the Republican/Democratic party controlled debate commission.

What are the odds you’ll ever see 92 again? What are the odds you’ll ever see another Perot in the debates?

Even now in the endless primary debates they’re trying to exclude any dissenters.

150. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

Neiwert has been working on NW white supremicists for a while. He’s not an inside baseball political writer. The fact that he doesn’t go after Hillary or Rudy doesn’t make his work on Paul less true.

Really, I don’t get your point.

151. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

He’s not an inside baseball political writer.

He writes for Firedog Lake Of course he is.

The fact that he doesn’t go after Hillary or Rudy doesn’t make his work on Paul less true.

Rudy has white supremacist connections in the form of the Bob Grant show. I’m not sure why Paul merits 5 very repetative posts and Rudy nothing.

The problem with Niewert is that he looks at the conflict between Repblicans and Democrats as a Manichean battle between good and evil. He says so himself.


I decided then that, for the foreseeable future, I could not cast my vote for any Republican on any ballot. The GOP, after its performance in 2000 — and especially considering its performance in the intervening years — will not have my vote. They have proven themselves utterly untrustworthy, and thereby unworthy of the responsibilities and honor of public office. And I know that I am not alone in this: The GOP no longer will have the votes of many other middle-of-the-road Americans, including my friends’ parents.

152. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

There’s also something very “pre 9/11” about looking at the militia movement and the white supremacists as the source of all evil.

Glenn Greenwald is about 100 times more nuanced than Neiwert because he recognizes how the far right in the USA has mutated from it’s anti-black/anti-Jewish identity into two parts, a strongly anti-black/anti-Jewish/anti-Mexican paleocon side and an even stronger, much stronger anti-Muslim neocon side.

I’m not quite sure why Niewert is so soft and so tolerant about neocons. And he is. Look at the respectful way he talks about Michael Medved. Look at the way he ignores the eliminationism in Hitchens recent speeches.

Seriously, the guy’s stuck on Oklahoma City.

153. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

whatever … I’m no fan of either Rudy or Hillary.

Paul had strong ties to the Patriot movement back in the ’90s. He’s pushed anti-immigrant, nativist, racist and misogynistic anti-abortion agitprop for years. So Neiwert drinks the donk koolaid … I’m a grownup, I get that, but IT DOESN’T MAKE PAUL’S HISTORY ANY LESS TRUE.

Jesus, lets talk about how Lou Dobb’s highlighting of the dangers of corporate globalism makes it okay to ignore his racism.

I’m going to bed.

154. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

There’s also something very “pre 9/11″ about looking at the militia movement and the white supremacists as the source of all evil.

I’m sorry, but you’re just being obtuse. You don’t think that far-right nativism and racism isn’t a serious danger? Not the only danger (I didn’t say it was), but a serious danger. I link to people who advocate lots of wrong-headed things who happen to be very good on one or two issues. I’ll praise Gore for his anti-war speeches and his environmental work while still being able to hold in my little head that he’s a spineless weasle of a politician who betrayed this country with his cowardice. I always enjoy “Cat Scratch Fever” on a hot summer afternoon with a beer in hand even though Ted Nugent is a nutjob.

Someone is only quotable when they take out ALL targets?

Again, don’t get your point, but you’ve shown increasingly that you just like to pick these silly fights over nothing, so I guess I should just get used to it.

155. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

oops, meant “I ALSO enjoy …”

anyway …

156. marisacat - 23 October 2007

Niewert started contributing to FDL sometime last year. I was sorry to see it.

For many people, online and off, they are inside the partisan divide game _ AND WILL BE STAYING there.

why is this news?

or news that the Democrats will demonise, fend off what they see as threat?

Hell if Kucinich really cared he’d leave the party, but he needs and uses the apparatus. As does Sanders in VT, who also did not say a single word during the Israeli war on lebanon.

But sorry, the Ron Pauls, who may indeed run as i have said, run from what ever corner you wish, are not OK with me.

I find Kucinich an inside game, thanks for the small moves in congress, etc. But like Out of Iraq FUCKING USELESS.

And as I said, this week Grvel had up a piece at HuffpO seeming ot indicate it is rational to think that Obama and Edwards will, could might should plan to, take on Hillbot.

Not in this lifetime.

157. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

You don’t think that far-right nativism and racism isn’t a serious danger?

It’s much less of a danger than Islamophobia and neoconservatism. Yes, it’s leading to increased repression of Mexican immigrants. The backlash againt the big immigrant rallies of 2006 has led to some ugly, ugly INS raids here in the Northeast.

But it’s not going to start WWIII. It doesn’t have the support of the Bush administration. It’s not going to nuke Iran. It’s not going to lead to the Palestinians being “transferred” to Jordon. It’s not responsible for putting Sami Al Arian in jail for years when he’s committed no crimes or for a decade of trumped up charges against the Holy Land Foundation. It didn’t give us Gitmo. It MIGHT have aided in the torture at Abu Ghraib (since a lot of the guards were dumb hillbillies who might have been influenced by the white power movement). It’s not making us all register with the government to fly.

And above all, it doesn’t have much penetration in the government. To worry about Helen Chenewyth in 2007 and not Giuliani is quite frankly missing the picture.

Yes, the far right is a danger but no the far right is a much different far right than it was in 1995. To miss this transformation isn’t good analysis.

158. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

Hell if Kucinich really cared he’d leave the party, but he needs and uses the apparatus. As does Sanders in VT, who also did not say a single word during the Israeli war on lebanon.

The independents who gave the Dems Congress in 2006? Are they left or right or center?

Who can grab them without being tied up in either party?

Kucinich and Sanders are both on the left. They have little appeal to centrists or conservatives who dissent from the war?

Quite honestly, a third party needs to pull in the center and the right as well as the left.

The left isn’t that big in the US. It can’t sustain a third party by itself.

159. bayprairie - 23 October 2007

HC said

And that’s the pathetic state we’re in. Had the Dems impeached a few months ago or even made a move to defund the war, nobody outside of Texas would have ever heard of Ron Paul.


ron paul is such an odd duck. the national, state and the texas 14th district republicans have even been trying to oust him since he defeated greg laughlin in the republican primary runoff. laughlin was a democrat who switched to repub in ’95 in a deal he cut with newt, for a seat on the ways and means.

its paul’s stand on iraq that accounts for his popularity. and it is growing.

It’s got to be anxiety about the anti-war independents.

bingo x teaux

160. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

It’s much less of a danger than Islamophobia and neoconservatism.


Variations on a theme, fed from the same dark wellspring. It is FUEL for what Bush is doing, just like the fundies are. You think that movement has nothing to do with the anti-immigrant movement? You think the anti-immigrant movement won’t help the Republicans hold onto seats in Congress.

161. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007

Really, it’s late and you argue in circles. I’m bored … have fun by yourself.

162. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 October 2007
163. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007


No. They’re not. The right is deeply split right now and the art of politics is encouraging divisions in the “enemy”.

Stormfront and LGF are different places with different interests and different goals. They need to be set against each other.

And they’re split even more deeply on immigration than on Israel.

The ruling class, the Giulianis and Bushes and McCains like immigration.

The grassroots right hates it. But the grassroots right is also deeply influenced by what the ruling class has to say.

When they collide, that means an opening.

164. marisacat - 23 October 2007

HOnetly I see internal racism, jingoism and groups that can be cued to create mayhem and violence – from the right – as part of the whole.

Shock troops inside the nation.

165. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

HOnetly I see internal racism, jingoism and groups that can be cued to create mayhem and violence – from the right – as part of the whole.

I also see the neoconservative right as being very international in character. LGF has deep ties to the European anti-immigrant parties. The Danish cartoon broohaha was stoked by the right from the USA to Europe to Israel to probably Russia. It’s pro-intervention, pro imperial, pro war.

The paleocon isolationist right, on the other hand, is nationalist. It wants to cut aid to Israel. It wants to pull the troops out of Iraq and send them to the Rio Grande.

To say they’re identical and don’t have conflicts is like saying the Stalinists and the Troskyists are both identical because they’re both communists.

Watch out for that ice pick.

166. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

And just to add to that, liberals and neoconservatives have more ties to each other, have less conflicts than neoconservatives have to paleocons/nationalists.

I think the simplistic left equals good and right equals bad only helps the neocons.

I don’t totally buy the line that Bush is a closet Marxist and that his advisors all act the way they do because Horowitz used to be a Communist but it does have some truth.

Look at the way Obama’s being gutted because one of his employees is “ideologically incorrect”. Is this liberalism or a whacked out kind of Marxism?

167. marisacat - 23 October 2007

sigh. I said part of a whole. Not identical.

Thanks, I can avoid ice picks pretty well. I will throw them on the porch with the millions of white plastic bags.

Your comparison of neo con vs paleo con, I agree wtih..

168. marisacat - 23 October 2007

Why is OBama toruing with such a fucking asshole?

I have considered Obama essentially subversive and being used subversively for a couple of years now. Since very soon after his appearance in congress.

169. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

Your comparison of neo con vs paleo con, I agree wtih..

And waiving the paleocon bogeyman also tends to make squeamish liberals jump into the arms of the closest neocon and say “hold me”.

Allow me. Google “Ron Paul is a Nazi” and you get a Kos diary.


Here’s what it says.

Why is Paul’s foreign policy more dangerous than Bush or Rudy’s you ask? Because Ron Paul is an avowed isolationist firmly entrenched in the Pat Buchanan wing of the ‘ThugliKKKlan party. These far right extremists may be anti-war, but they are anti-war for the wrong reasons. These ‘ThugliKKKlans also opposed intervention in World War I & II, Vietnam and Kosovo. In regards to the Vietnam war, it may appear in hindsight that it was a foreign policy mistake, but one of the reasons why the isolationists opposed it was because of their seething hatred of the Johnson administration in regards to Civil Rights and Great Society programs. They opposed this war for the wrong reasons–unlike the New Left’s correct reasons for opposing it: internationalism, human rights and respect for the Third World. At least with Bush and Rudy, they accept the pretense of international cooperation and engagement.

Let’s bold that last sentence.

At least with Bush and Rudy, they accept the pretense of international cooperation and engagement.

Yeah. OK.

170. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

Why is OBama toruing with such a fucking asshole?

I haven’t a clue and really don’t care because I don’t intend to vote for him.

But the way Kos and the gang are going after him is interesting as hell. It shows what a bunch of programmed robotic little drones they are.

They SHOULD be criticizing Obama for not being fully supportive of gay marriage. We all know it’s going to happen eventually. Obama knows it and he’ll eventually support it.

But what they are criticizing is this one asshole in his campaign. That allows them to have their cake and eat it too without really standing up for gay rights.

Where were they all when Kerry was gaybaiting Cheney’s daughter in the debates?

171. BooHooHooMan - 23 October 2007

I am eating burned popcorn tonight taking in a real bad trip through the media. Apropo, no?

From CSPAN coverae of Rocky’s Sen Intel earing on FBI counterterrrrrrrszzzm efforts….

Since 911 the FBI has been transforming itself into a National Security Organization

_ Willie Hulon , FBI National Security Branch, executive Assistant Director Before Rockefeller’s Sen. Intel Committee.

Mikulski :

“… we here in Congress don’t fully realize what we ave created with the national Security bureau…

Great! Thanks Barbara! Heckova job!

Medea is there at least. Sunglasses signage in view..

Coupla questions:

One for knowledge one for clarity…
—Mcat#168 how so about Obama being essentially subversive and used that way??

—Hair Club #166I don’t totally buy the line that Bush is a closet Marxist and that his advisors all act the way they do because Horowitz used to be a Communist but it does have some truth.
Come again? Bush a closet Marxist? Statist to be sure but c’mon….

172. BooHooHooMan - 23 October 2007

Also HC, you think gay marriage is inevitavle in this country? That Obama will eventually support it? With these verticle, negative slope trend lines?….

173. BooHooHooMan - 23 October 2007

— *inevitable ….I only spell like I’m drinking.

174. marisacat - 23 October 2007

well Dkos is an operative site. They work with, divert and deflect people to tracks the party wants peole on — and propagandise as elements inside the Democratic party instruct them.

On alternative Thursdays in off months, they play rebel …

Not exactly news.

Kos is a small time gamer who hit it big iwth the party. Lots of scut work level opertives are online, IMO.

175. marisacat - 23 October 2007

hell John Lewis who came out for SSM in late 03 or early 04 now supports HIllary. I am sure the patter is “she is our best hope”.

FWIW I supported Julian Bond inthat run, which iirc turned very nasty. I am sure as they knew, there would only ever be so many spots. Or so few. Depending on how people parse thsoe tired lines about the glass.

176. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

Come again? Bush a closet Marxist? Statist to be sure but c’mon

No. I don’t think that. I was just paraphrasing the paleocon line on Bush.

Personally, I think Bush’s closest ideological relation is Woodrow Wilson. Wilson was a white supremacist and Bush really isn’t. But Bush is defintely a statist, authoritarian internationalist.

All of them seem more Victorian than Marxist. Civilization marches on. We bring the savages culture. If the savages have something we want (like oil or land near the Jordon River) then we have the right to take it under the justification that we’re civilized and we can use it better. Private property doesn’t apply to the wogs.

Since 911 the FBI has been transforming itself into a National Security Organization

It’s really always been a political police, hasn’t it? DIdn’t Hoover refuse to prosecute organized crime in the 1950s because he was more worried about Communists and uppidy negros?

177. marisacat - 23 October 2007

IIRC Hoover claimed there was no mob. LOL.

178. Hair Club for Men - 23 October 2007

BTW, two more reasons that Ron Paul is a “racist”.

Reason 1. He’s soft on Castro.


On September 24, 2007, replying to an inquiry about U.S. policy toward Cuba, the campaign of Republican Congressman Ron Paul of Texas responded: “Congressman Paul believes that real free trade benefits both parties involved. His stance on Cuba would be to end the embargo, which only leads to the suffering of the people of Cuba while Castro is far from ‘punished’ and is in fact, strengthened by them. By setting a good example at home we can become an inspiration for countries such as Cuba, who may wish to emulate our actions.”

Reason 2. He’s soft on Hugo Chavez.


In 2001, Venezuela’s ambassador to Russia spoke of Venezuela switching to the Euro for all their oil sales. Within a year there was a coup attempt against Chavez, reportedly with assistance from our CIA. After these attempts to nudge the Euro toward replacing the dollar as the world’s reserve currency were met with resistance, the sharp fall of the dollar against the Euro was reversed. These events may well have played a significant role in maintaining dollar dominance.It’s become clear the U.S. administration was sympathetic to those who plotted the overthrow of Chavez, and was embarrassed by its failure. The fact that Chavez was democratically elected had little influence on which side we supported.

179. marisacat - 23 October 2007


LSF is still down, but luckily I xposted this at BMT, based on iirc an Obama diary at Dkos (that handy propaganda joint)… and RecordKeeper’s comment summed it up better than I could (her comment is in the thread, a few up from the bottom)

Re: Amen (4.00 / 4)

And further, it will require us to innovate and experiment with whatever ideas hold promise (including market- or faith-based ideas that originate from Republicans).

Well, that’s one of the most disturbing things I’ve read in a while. The Democratic Party has been broken and trained by the bullies of the GOP. They’ve accepted their new role as the “beta” party to the “alpha” Republicans.

I found Obama’s lecture — this was the term that came to me as well — cautious, reasonable, smooth, seductive, and completely fallacious. I couldn’t finish it because it made me feel enervated and agitated, at the same time. It’s a dangerous piece of writing, for that reason. It’s a winningly political, sugarcoated spoonful of medicine to intended to sedate uppity radicals. [bolding is mine — Mcat]

What made me angriest was the part about how the people in Illinois, he’s met in his travels, don’t think Bush is a criminal, or a liar, etc, etc. So, why are these ill-informed, middle-of-the-road, people in utter denial, more important than me, or any of the people venting their spleens in the blogosphere. Why are politicians bending over backwards to cater to a mushy middle, with a total lack of civic awareness. That amounts to the ill-informed dictating policy. Frightening! No wonder we’re in such a mess.

“I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or prostitute.” ~ Rebecca West

by Recordkeeper (.com) on Sun Oct 2nd, 2005 at 02:42:25 PM EST

180. BooHooHooMan - 23 October 2007

Thanks, both of yinz. (Pittsburghese)
This is what’s been going on with me of late…

It’s all so very demoralizing. Last weekend, I talked at length with my daughter over the why ,how, and prospects of moving out of the country. Most countries have a min of five years to obtain citizenship.
If I can establish residency elsewhere, get on a citizenship track there and retain working rights here I am going to just that before my kid gets through college..Getting her out is my concern, yet I take some uneasy comfort in the fact that in Bribery and Phoney Border War Nation that could most probably be arranged…..

I extrapolate from what I see going on and where it is likely to lead, and none of it is encouraging…If the fools here who are in a position to make a move don’t– then they deserve whatever comes down the pike.

Do you really want your family working most of their days to support their police state guardians? Not me…

My ISP , Comcast, is now “mediating bandwidth” for international access to the web. How very thoughtful…

In today’s Sen Intel open hearing…

Ron Wyden in this Sen hearing today alluded to previous closed door session over FBI intra-agency “tools” debate over the use of torture as an interrogation technique..

Medea waited till the end of the hearing to raise questions over FBI crim database over antiwar activists…

So very fucked…

Mcat nailed it in a comment a couple a days ago about the strategy to entirely dismantle the social contract. The “Entitlements” for economic subsistence for the poor went first, once that was swallowed by this ship of fools the Constitution was quick to follow..

I noticed Stark’s apology made no reference to Bush but it is sickening. The poor bastards rushing in to come here are only going to be saddled with the debt of this Empire. The only equal opportunity offered will be the chance for 100’s of millions of average “citizens’ ( what a meaningless term now) to compete with each other to sustain a corrupt privileged politically dominant class and its security apparatchiks. It’s INSANE. I’m of the mind to bag it all, thank you….

181. marisacat - 23 October 2007

well the true shame of the Stark event is that he is a garrulous old man, high on himself and he slobbered in one direction the other day and heaved and choked and wept in the other direction today.

useless. But it keeps the Blahgs and blogs busy.

Fortunately (in that they may not be subsumed by a criminal nation) I don’t have children. but if I did I would have tried to leave during Reagan.

What a shame it all is.

182. moiv - 24 October 2007

BHHM, what does this mean, exactly?

“My ISP , Comcast, is now “mediating bandwidth” for international access to the web. How very thoughtful…”

183. moiv - 24 October 2007

Russia’s Novosti says the Turks have crossed the border.

ANKARA, October 24 (RIA Novosti) – Units of the Turkish army have crossed the Iraqi border in a special operation against Kurdish militants, local newspapers said Wednesday.

The Yeni Safak newspaper reported that Turkish commandos supported by helicopters were chasing militants from the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), and F-16 Falcon fighter-bombers and artillery were delivering pinpoint strikes at militant bases about 50 kilometers (30 miles) deep into the Iraqi territory.

Zaman, Turkey’s third largest newspaper, said the Turkish Armed Forces had stepped up their bombardment of the Iraqi border as part of an operation launched in retaliation for Sunday’s terrorist attack that killed 12 soldiers and wounded 16 others.

The newspaper cited a government spokesman as saying that the U.S. had been informed about the start of the cross-border operation, although Turkey’s military has not confirmed the media reports.

The Turkish parliament sanctioned last week military cross-border operations against the PKK, based in north Iraq, following an earlier government request. The PKK says it is currently holding several Turkish soldiers hostage.

Turkey’s military said on Monday that eight military personnel were missing following clashes with Kurdish fighters on the Iraqi border, 34 Kurds and at least 12 Turkish servicemen were killed last Sunday in an ambush by Kurdish militants.

Turkey’s National Security Council is meeting Wednesday to discuss further action against the PKK insurgents and the reaction of the U.S. and neighboring countries on the Turkish incursion into northern Iraq.

The PKK, listed by the U.S., NATO and the EU as a terrorist organization, has been fighting for autonomy status in southeast Turkey for nearly 25 years. The conflict has so far claimed about 40,000 lives.

184. bayprairie - 24 October 2007

tunney, at dkos, just linked to this story in a diary. don’t see a second story up anywhere else yet though, nothing at google but this.

Turkey strikes at Kurdish militants in northern Iraq
10:14 | 24/ 10/ 2007

ANKARA, October 24 (RIA Novosti) – Units of the Turkish army have crossed the Iraqi border in a special operation against Kurdish militants, local newspapers said Wednesday.

The Yeni Safak newspaper reported that Turkish commandos supported by helicopters were chasing militants from the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), and F-16 Falcon fighter-bombers and artillery were delivering pinpoint strikes at militant bases about 50 kilometers (30 miles) deep into the Iraqi territory.

Zaman, Turkey’s third largest newspaper, said the Turkish Armed Forces had stepped up their bombardment of the Iraqi border as part of an operation launched in retaliation for Sunday’s terrorist attack that killed 12 soldiers and wounded 16 others.

The newspaper cited a government spokesman as saying that the U.S. had been informed about the start of the cross-border operation, although Turkey’s military has not confirmed the media reports.

185. moiv - 24 October 2007

Hi Bay, nice running into you. 😉

186. bayprairie - 24 October 2007

hey there!

187. BooHooHooMan - 24 October 2007

From EFF.

October 19th, 2007
EFF tests agree with AP: Comcast is forging packets to interfere with user traffic
Posted by Seth Schoen

This morning the Associated Press reported that Comcast is interfering with users’ ability to run file sharing applications over its network.

Since we spoke to Comcast last month and understood them to deny that they are doing this, we’ve been running our own tests.

The results of our tests have agreed with AP’s. Comcast is forging TCP RST packets which cause connections to drop (a technique also used by Internet censorship systems in China). These packets cause software at both ends to believe, mistakenly, that the software on the other side doesn’t want to continue communicating.

188. BooHooHooMan - 24 October 2007

Moiv, I’ll find some of the links…
They are encroaching on file transfer other than pr0n and heavy groovy tune downloads though comcast says it is a matter of bandwidth efficiency and aloca-blablablablah…. there are P2P pages overseas that are verbotten ….



189. BooHooHooMan - 24 October 2007

Thats freaky, as I posted # 188 before I posted # 187..

190. moiv - 24 October 2007

Thanks, BHHM. Since I lack the tech savvy of Bay and several million other people, I wasn’t sure what you meant, aside from the the obvious — that they were up to no good.

191. moiv - 24 October 2007


Comcast did it.

192. bayprairie - 24 October 2007

The Yeni Safak newspaper site is in turkish. The Zaman story mentioned is in english, but little detail.

Turkish troops head toward Iraq, start shelling PKK bases

:::tech savvvvvvy of Bay::: haha 🙂

193. marisacat - 24 October 2007

new post (thanks to bay, moiv and BHHM):


194. BooHooHooMan - 24 October 2007

Whoa Buddy
or is that
Cheney is Nice Man

From AFP

President of Iraqi Kurdish region urges end to rebellion
24/10/2007 07h49
Hundreds of people walk behind an army vehicle carrying the coffin of a soldier killed by Kurdish rebels
©AFP – Aden Altan

ARBIL, Iraq (AFP) – The president of Iraq’s northern Kurdish region on Wednesday urged the outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) to end its more than two-decade armed struggle against Turkey.

“We call upon the PKK to eliminate violence and armed struggle as a mode of operation,” said a sternly worded four-point statement issued by the office of Massud Barzani, president of the autonomous Kurdish region of Iraq.

“We do not accept in any way, based on our commitment to the Iraqi constitution, the use of Iraqi territories, including the territories of the Kurdistan region, as a base to threaten the security of neighbouring countries.”

The statement said the Kurdish administration did not believe in the use of violence as a “doctrine” and method to achieve political objectives

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