jump to navigation

Suicide by President, Follow the Leader… 31 October 2007

Posted by marisacat in 2008 Election, AFRICOM, Big Box Blogs, Culture of Death, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, WAR!.


        graffiti:  totenkopf

…lemmings off the cliff, sadly after we have killed millions.  Again.

Preparing for National Suicide:  What “all options on the table” really means

For more than a year, the USA has been openly threatening to bomb Iran. Some scenarios see the use of nuclear bombs. “All options are on the table” says Bush, Cheney, Rice, and most of the candidates in the 2008 Presidential race.

The reason? They say they feel threatened by Iran’s pursuit of nuclear power technology, although they formally granted Iran that right when they ratified the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty in 1968. The IAEA has found no evidence of a nuclear weapons program. They say they feel threatened by Iran’s support of the Shia militia, especially those in Iraq and Lebanon. Iran has traditionally played the role of defending Shia communities, even in the Ottoman era. They say they feel threatened by Iran’s opposition to Israel’s expansion and Israel’s oppression of Palestinians, which is against international law and many UN resolutions. The say they feel threatened by Iran’s energy exports and its ability to influence world prices.

In general, they feel threatened by an independent nation in an oil-rich region they wish to dominate. Therefore, they threaten to bomb Iran. “All options are on the table.”


One consequence of these threats is that Iran must prepare to defend itself. On Oct. 20, a top Iranian military commander announced that Iran is ready to retaliate with 11,000 missiles in the first few minutes after an American surprise attack. The missiles are aimed at the military bases, ships at sea, and economic assets of the threatening nations. To launch that many missiles AFTER a shock-and-awe surprise attack means that Iran must have distributed the ability to launch missiles. There is not one launch button and one commanding finger on the button.

There are many buttons and many different fingers on them. War is now on a hair trigger, and the risk of accidental war is now very, very, very high. War might be started by an Iranian religious fundamentalist eager to go to heaven, or patriot eager to defend Iran, or a traitor eager to destroy Iran, or someone depressed or bored or simply misreading a radar screen and thinking a flock of birds are an incoming attack.

The USA has over 300,000 military and support personnel in the region around Iran, all of them now the target of 11,000 missiles on hair-trigger. That is what repeated threats of war have achieved.


 War seems inevitable. With war will come thousands of deaths, maybe millions, and whole economies will collapse, the first being that of the USA since it is most dependent on imported oil.


 But the USA and other belligerent nations have decided to act contrary to international law and in violation of the United Nations, with the consequence that their military forces and economies are now in jeopardy.

Among all of the options on the table, the most likely are self-destruction and national suicide.


There is a lovely interview with Studs Terkel in the UK Independent… days old, no doubt everyone has read it, nevertheless:

“It’s true what you say. I can’t deny it. At the same time, I once wrote a book called Hope Dies Last. I believe that. I might feel hopelessness, except for one thing: the young. I don’t mean the young as they’re portrayed in TV commercials: whores, bimbos and dummies. There are many who do not fall into those categories. The big problem is that there’s no memory of the past. Our hero is the free market. People forget how the free market fell on its face way back in the Depression. And how the nation pleaded with its government and got help. Today, all these fat CEOs say we don’t need government. And these fat boys get away with it, because of our collective Alzheimer’s, and the power of Rupert Murdoch and CNN. There is despair in this country, sure. At the same time, we are waiting.”

“For what?”

“For new voices.”

“Fat boys”… there you go… yes, we have too many of those.  We lack for new voices…


Couple of grafs from a new article from Gore Vidal, at TruthDig…

Not since the glory days of Watergate and Nixon’s Luciferian fall has there been so much written about the dogged deceits and creative criminalities of our rulers. We have also come to a point in this dark age where there is not only no hero in view but no alternative road unblocked. We are trapped terribly in a now that few foresaw and even fewer can define despite a swarm of books and pamphlets like the vast cloud of locusts which dined on China in that ‘30s movie ”The Good Earth.”

And, really, there is nothing to add to this:

We live in an impermeable bubble without the sort of information that people living in real countries have access to when it comes to their own reality. But we are not actually people in the eyes of the national ownership: we are simply unreliable consumers comprising an overworked, underpaid labor force not in the best of health: The World Health Organization rates our healthcare system (sic—or sick?) as 37th-best in the world, far behind even Saudi Arabia, role model for the Texans. Our infant mortality rate is satisfyingly high, precluding a First World educational system.

Also, it has not gone unremarked even in our usually information-free media that despite the boost to the profits of such companies as Halliburton, Bush’s wars of aggression against small countries of no danger to us have left us well and truly broke. Our annual trade deficit is a half-trillion dollars, which means that we don’t produce much of anything the world wants except those wan reports on how popular our Entertainment is overseas. Unfortunately the foreign gross of “King Kong,” the Edsel of that assembly line, is not yet known. It is rumored that Bollywood—the Indian film business—may soon surpass us! Berman writes, “We have lost our edge in science to Europe…The US economy is being kept afloat by huge foreign loans ($4 billion a day during 2003). What do you think will happen when America’s creditors decide to pull the plug, or when OPEC members begin selling oil for euros instead of dollars?…An International Monetary Fund report of 2004 concluded that the United States was ‘careening toward insolvency.’ “

Meanwhile, China, our favorite big-time future enemy, is the number one for worldwide foreign investments, with France, the bete noire of our apish neocons, in second place.

I noticed an odd thing at TruthDig just now (sometimes I neglect to look around, but today I did)… the Blogroll lists all the Dkos affilated “blue” franchises and the assorted sponsored blogs similarly inclined [cough:  roped in] that do not use “blue” in the name.  Then I noticed the site adopts the “Advertising Liberally” blogroll.

Oh well.  Tho one would think that Sheer or his son would be aware of online political astroturf.  Prolly something to do with [drumroll]  electing Democrats

It is possible to be very heartless in viewing America.  It preaches “Wake Up” from the various pulpits… but nods off in place.




1. Hair Club for Men - 31 October 2007

Re Truthdig. I don’t think Scheer has much to do with the day to day running of the website. It’s a couple of younger people.

But I doubt Scheer would be down for a balls out feud with Kos and the Pwog Dems. So money is money.

I doubt this means the Chomsky, Walt and Mearsheimer stuff will disappear. I may be naive, but Truthdig wants to pull readers from Counterpunch as much as from Kos.

2. Hair Club for Men - 31 October 2007

Some cross eyed chick on Hardball riffing on the immigrant drivers license bullshit and pushing the idea of a national ID.


Time for your retina scan Mr. Matthews.

DAMMIT. I knew this election was going to come down to anti-immigrant populism. But I’m amazed it happened so fat.

3. marisacat - 31 October 2007

hmm I don’t think that TruthDig can really pulll from Counterpunch, some it can pull, sure… The list of writers at TruthDig is too formulaic, too party line. The big diversions from the script (which is too much Dionne,etc., for my taste…) is Ritter, Vidal and Hedges.

I was displeased when They added Dionne in particular. What is the point? he is syndicated and appears prominently in one of the foremost, namewise, papers in the nation… Do we need this?

Sheer always had a bit of old time liberal fire in him, but was too formulaic Dem for my taste. Back when they started it, I had higher hopes… just due ot the break with traditional media and so on…

Again, it is about “electing Democrats”…

4. BooHooHooMan - 31 October 2007

I see this Balkanization continuing. What’s foolish is the rubes of Orange actually think that nominally American Global Capital has some baseline interest in sustaining the country in its present form. Other than securing arsenals This country could very well “de-federalize” sold as some new and improved scheme in keeping with the realities of a brave new world etc etc etc…Not a good sign when PRIVATIZATION applies to standing Armies, Defense Technology, Surveillance Ops for Law Enforcement, Domestic Prisons, secret Concentration Camps where murder rape and torture are now acceptable.

How about a good bust in the mouth for anyone who things it’s not ~really all~ like that? Bullshit..

Our nakedly corrupt Government has promoted it, and 999 out of a thousand docile people in the vicinity where you live have accepted it and moved on….

One other thing- whoever Miss Blue is , she’s a fucking imbecile.

5. Hair Club for Men - 31 October 2007

The media’s really trying to do damage control for Rudy but damn did Biden nail him. And Rudy’s counterpunch was awful.

Joe Biden, finally, finally good for something.

Now he can leave.

6. marisacat - 31 October 2007

Biden’s line on Rudy was very very good. Short succinct and a good laugh.

7. marisacat - 31 October 2007

Judging from the headlines looks like Hillary bagged AFSME.

Sign up for killer trade deals… line right up.

8. liberalcatnip - 31 October 2007

All I can say about Rudy is: if you thought Bush was bad news…you ain’t seen nothing yet. He’s definitely the most dangerous in that field and I wouldn’t trust him farther than I could throw him. His grouchy/nasty streak seems pretty pathological – on par with Darth Cheney’s. I think if he was elected, the US would basically disintegrate (much more than it has already).

9. marisacat - 31 October 2007

well Democrats plan to use all of that to pull wandering sheep back into the fold, meaning vote for Hilarius the First.

10. Hair Club for Men - 31 October 2007

I wonder if there’s any way to get this film some play.


There are some devestating scenes Benito Giuliani where his fascist side comes out so completely he makes Cheney look like Mr. Rogers.

11. liberalcatnip - 31 October 2007

#8. There’s no doubt Hillary isn’t a much better choice than Guiliani. After last nite, I would hope the MSM would stop pitching her as Ms Inevitable. (Not that Edwards Think of the children!! and Obama ummm, uhh… would be any better.) It just comes down to which loser will win.

12. Hair Club for Men - 31 October 2007

It’s not Hillary nor Rudy. It’s the dance between them, both parties stepping gracefully onto an ever more right wing terrain, waltzing us all down into hell.

13. Hair Club for Men - 31 October 2007

I still can’t believe Kucinich answered the did you see a UFO question honestly 🙂

I hope his wife picks him up and slam dunks him somewhere…

14. marisacat - 31 October 2007

well Iowa Caucus on Jan 3… and Edwards who has camped there for over three years is slowly losing ground.

I don’t see a groundswell of votes for obama in an older white state, esp on Jan 3. In the winter snows…

Then a week later (I am confused by now, this year it might be a two week interval), iirc, it is NH, with a lot of conservative Ind


Plus, there was no primary.

15. marisacat - 31 October 2007

two most recent polls at RCP, GE head on head polling, show Guiliani besting Hillary, by a couple of points. The 4 polls before that showed Hillary over Guiliani,

16. Hair Club for Men - 31 October 2007

show Guiliani besting Hillary, by a couple of points

Count on a bit of the David Duke effect with Hillary and Obama too. A lot of people who might not vote for a woman or an African American might not admit it in the polls.

You know, I’ve run into men in their 20s who say things like “we can’t have Hillary as president. She’ll have her finger on the button. If she PMSes we’re all dead”.

How do people this young STILL have these ideas about women?

17. marisacat - 31 October 2007

Gravel has a short piece up at HuffyHuffFluff:

A war with Iran will not be contained. It’s easy to imagine a “Guns of August” scenario that draws in Israel, Saudi Arabia and potentially Pakistan, India, Russia, and China. Hillary, a potential Third World War is no crackpot fantasy, and it’s no joke.

Based on the questions during Wednesday’s presidential debate, I suspect the mainstream media isn’t interested in a serious discussion about this impending crisis. Tim Russert’s questions had us spending more time on smoking, teenage drinking and Red Sox versus Yankees than on Iran. But this crisis is real and it’s time to take it seriously before it’s too late.


18. sabrina - 31 October 2007

From last thread to Intermittent Bystander – thanks for the good wishes! ‘Undercover colleen’ lol! Btw, I haven’t seen Colleen for a while. Hope she’s okay. And still no word from Tuston. Really wondering if he’s okay. Jam-fuse too. Is he in Europe?

Catnip, good luck with the move. Miss D also …

Catnip, I couldn’t agree more regarding Giuliani. I cannot believe anyone is even considering voting for that little fascist.

He and Hillary ran against each other for the Senate. His poll ratings at the time in NY were around 25% airc as by then, people had finally wakened up about him. He dropped out of the race when it was clear she was going to beat him, claiming it was because of cancer. He did have cancer but unlike those with no medical coverage, his was diagnosed early and treated. If he had had a chance of winning, he would have stayed in the race and used his condition to gain sympathy.

He also had the problem of his mistress at that time. His lawyer had announced his divorce on Mother’s Day (which was when his wife learned they were getting divorced). His wife then went on TV and slammed him. It was disgusting, although not unexpected with a creep like Rudi. Plus, he had wanted to bring his mistress home so she ‘could take care of me’. What his kids might have thought of that I suppose didn’t bother him.

And that’s the nicest stuff I can think about Rudi. I’m sure if he gets the nomination, the Dems will then dig up his past and people will be pretty horrified. By comparison, Hillary will look like Mother Teresa. Anyone would.

19. marisacat - 31 October 2007

ugh. The Nineties ARE back. I just refocused and noticed what was running across the TV during the news… commercials for Michael Flately and that Dance Troop… whatever it was called.

They’re baaaack.

20. marisacat - 31 October 2007

hmm USGS is on the news saying that the earthquake increased rather than reduced the stress on both Calaveras and Hayward fault.


And i missed the 3.7 aftershock this afternoon.

21. Madman in the Marketplace - 31 October 2007

Remember the drug plane thing I linked to the other day, at ad Cow Morning News? Well, Chicago Public Radio also has a reporter who’s on the story:

They have a word for it in Spanish:

MARIO MENENDEZ RODRIGUEZ “Narcoavion, that’s how we say it”

Drug Planes.

And if you try to figure what happened to one of these planes, you’ll discover just how little you’re allowed to know

SECRETARY: “I’m not allowed to answer any questions regarding the aircraft”

…about the world of private jets and drugs.
So let’s start out with what we are allowed to know.
On a late Sunday Night last month, an American Gulfstream two private jet, crash-landed into the jungles of Mexico’s Yucatan Peninsula.

It managed to avoid catching fire, skidding across the jungle floor, and splitting into three pieces. Mexican TV showed images of the plane and its cargo… dozens of “military style” duffel bags containing several metric tons of cocaine. [1]

The reason this made the news is the history of the plane, tail number N987SA…Starting in 2003, the plane made several trips from Washington and Connecticut to Guantanamo Bay. This led to questions of its use by military or intelligence agencies. Since… how many people really fly from Connecticut to Guantanamo?

JAY ROOT: I mean, if you’re flyin to Guantanamo, its government business,

That was Jay Root, he reported on the plane for McClatchy Newspapers with his partner Kevin Hall.

KEVIN HALL: The CIA’s confirmed it was used, it was not confirmed now, it was confirmed in earlier reports through the tail numbers

The plane shows up on the list of CIA planes compiled for the EU human rights investigation into the “extraordinary rendition” program. Still, just being used in the program doesn’t mean it was ever used to transfer prisoners. Only 2% of the its flights had prisoners on board… the rest were logistical support.

I had missed the McClatchy reports.

22. Miss Devore - 31 October 2007

Just signed a one-year lease, so if November 2008 is delivers the worst possible results-guiliani, romney & hillary in that order, I’ll be able to move to a place more befitting a citizen of a doomed country. If I haven’t been relocated to a “work farm.” Maybe state of ca employees will be sent to harvest in absence of a migrant work force. (I shouldn’t give them any ideas!)

good post MCAT–seasonal, shall we say.

pea ess–I inquired of the property manager of the new place, that I heard there was a “tot lot” and wondered where it was located on the premises. also asked if there were many “tots” –she told me she was prohibited from answering the latter question, but did show me the “tot lot”–a bit beyond the fenced-in pool area, there is this rubberized square with a single toucan/pony on springs in the middle of it. (a one-trick pony if there ever was one)

I’m getting the impression children are scarce there. which is good because I do not want them to annoy my dog.

23. Madman in the Marketplace - 31 October 2007

I hope his wife picks him up and slam dunks him somewhere…

She can slamdunk me anyday.

Denny the K did say THIS today:

“I seriously believe we have to start asking questions about his mental health,” Kucinich, an Ohio congressman, said in an interview with The Philadelphia Inquirer’s editorial board on Tuesday. “There’s something wrong. He does not seem to understand his words have real impact.”

Kucinich, known for his liberal views, trails far behind the leading candidates in most Democratic polls. He was in Philadelphia for a debate at Drexel University.

Bush made the remarks at a news conference earlier this month.

He said: “I’ve told people that if you’re interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them (Iran) from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon.”

Kucinich said he doesn’t believe his comments about the president’s mental health are irresponsible, according to a story posted on the newspaper’s Web site.

“You cannot be a president of the United States who’s wanton in his expression of violence,” Kucinich said. “There’s a lot of people who need care. He might be one of them. If there isn’t something wrong with him, then there’s something wrong with us. (actually, I don’t see this as an either/or) This, to me, is a very serious question.”

24. marisacat - 31 October 2007


meant to mention it when you posted the “cow” version of the narcoavion… think they have determined that at some point Hillary the primary candidate has flown in one of the planes at issue, when it is tricked out as private hire plane for people…. maybe I read it in the McClatchy…


Miss D

Good Luck moving day… 😉 hmmm does nto sound like “tots” are in big numbers at the complex…;)



yup, Rudy will be used to push Dems and mod / liberal Ind to vote fro Hilarius. And plenty will anyway.

25. Hair Club for Men - 31 October 2007

Pat Buchanan’s been on his fifth or sixth cable news show talking about the Hillary drivers license flap. He’s debating Laura Flanders on the Dan Abrams show.

Buchanan: There is a populist uprising against illegal immigration.

Laura Flanders: I hope this doesn’t become a chase after the Lou Dobbs watchers campaign.

I’d pat myself on the back for seeing this weeks ago but it really wasn’t that hard. Anybody who’s not a total cretin could have easily seen that once the Democerats give up on running an anti-war, pro-civil-liberties populist campaign (and they need a smarter, more photogenic Kuninich) that populism isn’t going anyplace.

It just flows into the anti-immigrant issue and the Republicans benefit.

I’m still not sure if the Republicans can win because they’re candidates are all so bad but I am sure we all lose.

And I don’t think this was even discussed at the Orange Satan.

26. jam.fuse - 31 October 2007

I am still in the ‘good ol’ usa, sabrina (and everyone else), until around the end of the year. Planning on making the big move to the EU by new year’s day. Also should be back online in a day or so, currently posting from a remote location…

27. marisacat - 31 October 2007

jam.fuse… !

Know you will be busy but would love, when you are settled, your impressions of where you live – in and around Berlin, iirc you saying..

28. moiv - 31 October 2007

HC @ 24

“And I don’t think this was even discussed at the Orange Satan.”

As far as I know, only by me.

wow….. tweety just said (16+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Asak, DelRPCV, wishingwell, Dallasdoc, Andrea inOregon, churchylafemme, Lying eyes, boofdah, Inland, begone, greenearth, SherriG, NearlyNormal, myrealname, DemocraticLuntz, thursdays child

that if she sticks to her ?position? on drivers licenses for undocumented aliens, it will be the BIGGEST issue of next years campaign. Bigger than Iraq, Iran, Health care, ANYTHING.

What a fucking maroon. I can’t believe he said that.

A learning experience is one of those things that says, ‘You know that thing you just did? Don’t do that.’ Douglas Adams

by dougymi on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 10:33:28 PM CDT


He meant that Giuliani (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Dallasdoc, dougymi

will make it his biggest issue — and in the interest of [1] diminishing the importance of the war and health care while [2] appealing to bigots and emphasizing his own putative superiority on national security issues, Mr. Hell-On-Terrorists will surely try to do exactly that.

The TEA Fund: Practicing random acts of kindness to women

by moiv on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 11:36:10 PM CDT

29. Madman in the Marketplace - 31 October 2007

I toss some more disgust at Clinton, and her little dog union, too!

30. Madman in the Marketplace - 31 October 2007

Noam Chomsky Weighs In On 9/11 Conspiracy Theories [VIDEO]

Pretty good. I personally think the Bushies had some hints, but underestimated the terrorists … and then cashed in when they succeeded.

31. Madman in the Marketplace - 31 October 2007

The Evangelical Movement’s Breakdown Ain’t so Cute After All

I think this “kind” face is the one the church puts on whenever they’re in trouble.

The sex shame has not gone away; I meet the causalities all the time: the young women looking for a way out of a secret pregnancy who “can’t tell anyone” and hate themselves for it. The painful closet cases who hide behind “purity pledges” and the threat of “porn addiction” as a way to keep anyone from seeing that they’re queer, and as horny, as any other human being. The revolving door between drug addiction and choir practice because the underlying problems are never addressed.

The church can’t help these poor sinners, no matter how “nice” they are, because fundamentally, they have sinned. If you believe in that shit, even if you’re not getting a straight ticket to hell, purgatory’s flames are burning your hair off anyway.

Successful missionary work encourages conceit, and aggression. It always does. When it was “fun” to be a Bush Family supporter, when W. was a “winner,” then being a fag-bashing bully and killing a few more abortion doctors was righteous. Bomb Iraq! Your credit card is limitless! Gas is cheap! National Guard duty is a cakewalk! Jesus did a lot of kicking ass and taking names.

Of course the elite like Ralph Reed, Falwell, Dobson, et. al., sold out to the corporate GOP cash trough long ago. Year after year, the Republican economic and military policies destroyed their own base. But the Fundie Kings were distracted by all their velvet cushions and private jets. A scandal here, a scandal there — they just couldn’t be bothered to take it seriously.

The only candidate who could save them now would be a wholesome middle-of-the-roader who promises to end the war, and put some major money in working-class (i.e., debt slave) pockets. Like Hillary. Or Barak. And those two are pumping out the prayer breakfasts to prove that very point. The leading Democrats aren’t campaigning to get religion out of politics, they’re encouraging it.

Dobson may still be screaming in his piss-pot about how children need to be beaten harder to turn out right, but he shook Hillary Clinton’s hand a few weeks ago. What does that say about the two of them?

There is no such thing as religion staying out of politics; I find it incredible any reporter can let a whopper like that slip through without rebuttal. Christian power is not about holding hands and thinking good thoughts about the little people. Instead, what we have is a very tense waiting game.

I’m so sick of the “fundies (or racists) aren’t a real problem” tale. Biding their time, that’s all, as authoritarians always do when the spin turns against them.

32. sabrina - 31 October 2007

*waving at jam-fuse* 🙂

I second Marisacat’s request for reports from your new location! And maybe pave the way for the rest of us. It’s not looking good for the future here …

Btw, re Mac computers. I’m getting a new laptop next week and wondering now if I should get a Mac, or do they make laptops? I’m completely clueless about computers so if that’s a dumb question well, what can I say?

Just read that diary on DK from Jane Harman, if you could call it a diary.

The truth is that she was briefed about the illegal NSA program. I posted about this in the last thread. She cannot say they were not told what was going on because Rockefeller already revealed that they did.

All of them should have stepped down rather than keep quiet about what they knew. They should have told Cheney they would not remain silent or at least would consult a lawyer about it. Bush set them up in order to use them, which he did when the program was revealed in 2004. He said that ‘Dems were on board’ with it.

What’s happening on DK regarding being loyal to Democrats should have happened two, three years ago. I will never forgive anyone who banned or threatened and silenced people who tried to point out that electing people like Jane Harman was no different than electing a Republican. There was a primary challenge to her airc. I don’t remember how much support the Dem party gave to her challenger, Marcy Wingood? I think.

They committed serious crimes. When we were demanding that Pelosi put Impeachment back on the table at DK, Kos called it ‘Impeachment Porn’ and the rest of the troll patrol went insane over Impeachment being mentioned slamming anyone who pointed out that there was no other way to stop these criminals. They bear responsibility for the ongoing criminality, people like Hunter, DhinMi, MissLaura, and others like Elise, stupidly shouting down people who were genuinely and rightly furious over what was happening to this country

Now, kos has a diary up talking about how it is not good enough to just elect Dems, we have to elect ‘better Dems’. Who does he think he’s kidding? He knows he can’t sell ‘loyalty to Dems no matter who they are’ anymore. So now it’s ‘better Dems’. Who gets to choose these candidates? To trust the ‘netroots again after the disastrous last five years of stupidity from them, would be simply crazy. I really hope people are not stupid enough to fall for it all again.

What a dark period this is and without a media it’s likely that millions of people don’t even realize what’s really going on. Which is why the Internet WAS the only hope of spreading information.

I was glad to see people standing up to him today (linked in last thread). Whoever said that all he cares about is money, was right. The vile DhinMi must not have gotten a job yet as he’s posting nonsense on the FP.

33. Hair Club for Men - 31 October 2007

that if she sticks to her ?position? on drivers licenses for undocumented aliens, it will be the BIGGEST issue of next years campaign. Bigger than Iraq, Iran, Health care, ANYTHING.

She should stick to her position on the drivers licenses. And Dodd, Edwards and Obama shouldn’t have demagogued her on the issue.

It’s not about the drivers licenses or even about immigration. It’s about the Democrats running a pro-war candidate. It’s about the Democrats allowing themselves to be set up as the oligarchy by the Republicans (who will just love to run as populists). It’s about surrendering the alternative.

But above all, it’s about taking impeachment off the table. People aren’t naturally mean and most Americans don’t naturally hate Mexicans or immigrants. Just the opposite, most Americans have grandparents who were immigrants and most of us love Mexicans, Mexican food, tequila, going to Cancun, cheap labor. Mexicans ain’t Arabs. They’re extremely familiar and part of North American culture.

But most of us are incredibly angry at the government right now. If the Democrats chop off the populist alternative, if the ram a pro-war candidate down our throats, than we CAN be manipulated by the media and the Republicans.

But in the end it works out of the Donkles. It lets them run yet another scare camaign telling us that this is the MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION EVER and that anybody who just says fuck it and doesn’t vote is a big fat traitor who’s enabling fascism.

34. Madman in the Marketplace - 31 October 2007


Let me briefly clarify a related issue. It is absolutely immaterial to me what Meyer’s motives were. In view of the questions Meyer asked, and his second question especially (concerning an attack on Iran), it should be immaterial to you as well. I don’t care if he was only looking for a brief moment of fame. I don’t give a damn if he was a “prankster” seeking to create some kind of outrageous incident. I care only that he asked the most crucial question of this time — and that he asked it of someone who could actually do something about it, if he wanted to. But John Kerry and almost every other Democrat in Congress will never do a damned thing. In fact, the Democrats only act to make an attack on Iran more likely, and that is because they and the Republicans share the same fundamental perspective and pursue the same ultimate goals: a foreign policy of world hegemony, and a corporatist-authoritarian state at home.

I don’t care if Meyer was rude or abrasive, or even if his motives were awful. He asked the crucial question. For God’s sake, writers and bloggers who say they themselves think an attack on Iran would represent a horrific criminal act, and may additionally lead to the final imposition of a dictatorship in the United States, can barely bring themselves to ask the question in articles or on their blogs. And they do nothing to pressure the Democrats in Congress to act to prevent an attack — and the Democrats are supposedly their representatives from their party, and purportedly concerned with their views. But for the most part, these writers and bloggers do absolutely nothing. At least they do nothing politely. They follow the rules. They are marvelously well-behaved. By such means, they also render themselves utterly useless and irrelevant — and accomplices before the fact to a monstrous crime.

All I care about is the fact that Meyer asked the question that should be everyone’s highest concern right now. Meyer tried to stop traffic and, for a very brief, fragile moment, he did. He tried to wake people up. Most of you are still in a self-induced coma. So much for Meyer’s attempt.

35. Hair Club for Men - 31 October 2007

Btw, re Mac computers. I’m getting a new laptop next week and wondering now if I should get a Mac, or do they make laptops?

Indeed they do.


And since they run on intel chips right now you can dual boot Windoze and OSX.

I WISH I could justify buying one but I have a laptop, a 9 pound IBM Thinkpad G40 that I bought in 2003 and still works as well as I did the day I bought it, so rugged you could drop a nuke on it and it wouldn’t stop working. And in 5 years I’ll still be using it.

36. CSTAR - 31 October 2007


I have two MAC notebook computers: one runs the older panther and the other newer one runs tiger, which is now superseded by what seems to be the splendid Leopard. I really like MACS for the quality of the physical design and the nearly flawless user interface to the OS (which of course is BSD Unix) BTW I also very much liked an older PC which runs (ran) Ubuntu GNU/Linux (mentioned by HCfM)-until, in my typical impatience to get something done, I broke it. Though like HCfM I have been a longtime Unix user (since 1984) and linux since 1996, I did get very frustrated with the amount of time spent on getting things to work properly. That frustration led me to MACS, but I must say Ubuntu is almost as flawless as a MAC.

In the future, when I need a replacement computer I will buy a very cheap notebook PC and run Ubuntu on it. I do regular (twice daily) backups on a flash drive so if the machine crashes or is stolen, nothing is really lost. I think whenever at all possible we should refuse to pay the Microsoft Tax.

37. Madman in the Marketplace - 31 October 2007
38. moiv - 31 October 2007

Sabrina @ 30

Harman’s challenger was Marcy Winograd. And someone posted that they were sending her today’s rum doin’s.

39. marisacat - 31 October 2007

Just found Madman and HCfM in Moderation…

sorry for the delay!

40. Hair Club for Men - 31 October 2007

Noam Chomsky Weighs In On 9/11 Conspiracy Theories [VIDEO]

I’ve seen that one. It’s been around for awhile.

Question: Has anybody trace the “controlled demolition” theory back to its orgins? When did it first start getting thrown around?

It strikes me as nonsense designed to head off real debate on 9/11. If you go back to some of the stuff Greg Palast was writing in early 2002, he’s higly sceptical of the official story. He’s got all kinds of questions about how Bush and the intelligence agencies cut off any attempt to “follow the money” to Saudi Arabia. He seems to think that Bush shut down a lot of investigations in order to protect his friends in the Saudi elite. This isn’t to say that he “planned” 9/11, just that he didn’t allow the FBI to do their job.

But how can you debate this stuff with all the absurd controlled demolition theories floating around. I SUSPECT that in about 30 years we’re going to find out that a lot of the 9/11 conspiracy theories were put out by the Republicans as noise to drown out real criticism.

In Daniel Ellsberg’s autobiography he even discusses how Nixon ordered his operatives to start spreading Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories to get peoples minds off Watergate.

41. marisacat - 31 October 2007

Jeff at Rigourous Intuition writes, from time to time, about how the shaping of the debate is all too oftne to throw us off.

Ithink Bush’s biggest “job” was to protect the Saudi friends, as well as the bin Laden family friends.

It may have gathered speed as FBI operations worked the field under Nixon, but there was great unease over the Warren Commission and great distress post-assassination, aside from anything spread in the early 70s.

Anyone with half a brain knew leaders were being killed off. I don’t care what particular flavor of CT one buys OR does not buy, the sheer volume of killing was hard to avoid noticing.

42. Miss Devore - 31 October 2007

No problems with Macbook thus far. I was committed by ego to be a PC’er, but…oh yes it helps I can bring my work computer home.

I forgot the virtues of the other in no time.

43. wu ming - 31 October 2007

it is clear we haven’t, are not, and will not be told anything resembling the true story of what went down. CTs are one assertion, butn it’s hard to say what’s true, false, and delusional as long as you don’t have good info. that’s why we don’t have good info.

having studied other countries and other times, there’s very little any CT has thrown out there that i’d rule out automatically, because a lot of crazy stuff has indeed gone down elsewhere. i listen to it all, and wish the proponants were more careful about the difference between might have happened and did happen, but by and large the only ones i treat as reliable bullshit are the ones coming off the TV and out of the politicians’ mouths.

people are uncomfortable with uncertainty. once you accept that you don’t know, discussion of stuff is much easier.

something stinks, though. of that i am certain. not sure we’ll ever get a thread, on any of it.

44. wu ming - 31 October 2007

oh, and go with the macbook, if you can justify the extra expense. i’m very fond of macs, and they work better with each model.

45. wu ming - 31 October 2007

this just struck me, on rereading alphageek’s series last night, how brilliant a metaphor it is for more than just earthquakes:

People react in interesting ways when faced with emergency situations.

When faced with a life-threatening situation, a great many people will simply freeze, unable to process events effectively and respond appropriately. A person who reacts in this manner may attempt to continue normal life at great risk to themselves and others, or may simply subside into shock and denial.

Another significantly large group will react by making a reasonable effort at ensuring their own survival and helping others, but may not be terribly effective at either. In many cases, these folks may take actions which increase risk to themselves and others. A significant percentage of this second group will, depending on the severity and duration of the emergency, go into shock and denial. In a group situation, good leadership can keep this to a minimum.

All the cool kids, though, fall into a third category. Whether by training or innate nature, members of this group are mentally prepared to overcome the challenges at hand. They have decided that dammit, they’re not going to give up and die, and that’s final.

Making the decision that you, personally, are going to survive makes all the difference in the world.

46. marisacat - 31 October 2007

hmm Madman just popped me this. Seems worthy of being posted.

47. marisacat - 31 October 2007

Entirely too cute of Gore. via Scruggs at SMBIVA

48. moiv - 31 October 2007

Comment on l’affaire Harman from Budlawman, Marcy Winograd’s husband.

In fact, Harman was looking the other way (21+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Rebecca, Donna Z, Smallbottle, leveymg, NMRed, RebeccaG, strengthof10kmen, bablhous, vacantlook, 3goldens, mjd in florida, david78209, jimreyn, Ozzie, wiscmass, Nowhere Man, trashablanca, Data Pimp, Haningchadus14, Catrina, Justus

on the Intel Committee, playing “I’ve Got a Secret” with her colleagues, while Bush violated the Constitution. Then, in February ’06, when confronted about it (after the belated NY Times exposé in 12/05) on “Meet the Press”, she alternated between outrage at the “leak” and helplessness about doing anything about it. Both reactions were appalling, and were part of the reason she got primaried by my wife, Marcy Winograd.

“The true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love.”

by Budlawman on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 05:04:00 PM CDT

he goes on to say that he is unsure whether Winograd will run again.

49. marisacat - 31 October 2007

niitnutroots stiffed Winograd in her last run.

I can only imagine what they might do, in their slice of a slice world, if she ran again

50. moiv - 31 October 2007

LOL, that reminds me of a comment I saw and recced in a Harman-related thread:

“FIGHTING DEM” my ass….. (7+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
moiv, delver rootnose, HighSticking, CoolOnion, RebeccaG, david78209, khereva

The Seminole Democrat
A blue voice calling from the deep red

by SemDem on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 03:05:45 PM CDT

51. marisacat - 31 October 2007

oh that is a hoot!

Wonder fi they would have banned Madman if his moniker had been

Son of a Lakota Dem.

52. moiv - 31 October 2007

Well, the time was that when you went up against Son of a Cuban Dem, you lengthened your odds to a considerable extent. 😉

53. marisacat - 31 October 2007

anyone wants a convenient little store house of Bomb Iran quotes, McGovern’s article is a handy stash pot.

I realise the US, the panoply of war interests, are using Israel and that, in turn, Israeli and US Lobby interests are using the flatulent American public, but I am sick to death, to the very end with it, of it all.

54. marisacat - 31 October 2007

LOL My advice w/r/t Dkos, don’t call out anyone’s “fuck buddy”.

55. marisacat - 31 October 2007


just found BHHM in Moderation, from 3:24 pm… he is up at Comment # 4

So sorry! A disoriented day, what can I say…


Oil cresting at 94 USD.

Nightline is on israel’s hunt for oil. Lotta fucked Xtians hunting for oil for them via RELIGION.

Jesusfuckingdamn. WHO GIVES A HSIT?

56. marisacat - 31 October 2007

from Danny Schechter’s News Dissector:


“The US economy is undoubtedly in recession,” he said. “Many parts of industry are actually in a state worse than recession. If it were not for Bernanke putting huge amounts of money into the market, the stock market would probably be down much more than it is.”

57. moiv - 1 November 2007

I don’t even need to read the official economic indicators. The increasing number of women having abortions because time lost from work due to pregnancy and delivery–even before taking into account the expense of supporting another child, would mean complete ruin for their families–tells me all I need to know.

One woman a couple of weeks ago could have been speaking for them all: “I’m pregnant in the first place because I had to spend my birth control money on gas to get to work.”

Masses of people balanced on the edge of disaster.

58. marisacat - 1 November 2007

“I’m pregnant in the first place because I had to spend my birth control money on gas to get to work.”


I almost hit the ceiling of the kitchen the other day, they took a camera crew out to a gas station. Quite a few prattled the “liberal” [but! look! at! Europe!] propaganda of “higher prices for gas is good”. Nice little sheep.

Finally one man said, I understand about pricing gas higher, but I go to work to feed my daughter, and if I have to buy gas at 5$, then I can’t feed my daughter”.

Europe has transportation infrastructure. It has REDUNDANT systems… esp in the cities… Very little of the US does.. poor people rely on their cars, for good reason.

Gas prices are going up as we scrwed and tied to the oil games. NOT because we are going Green [for real] and will underwrite new infrastructure for transportation…

and so on, etcetera.

59. wu ming - 1 November 2007

prior patterns of development lock us in to sunk costs that are very, very hard to break out of. same principle with subdivisions in fire country, urban levees or lack of mass transit infrastructure. either we pay increasing amounts of money to sustain it, or we collapse, or we fork over a ton of investment to make a new system.

my bet is collapse.

60. marisacat - 1 November 2007

agree.. collapse is on the schedule.

61. marisacat - 1 November 2007


anyone wants a stash of run up to Iraq war quotes, editorials, etc… this piece at Counterpunch is loaded.

As we go down the road again

62. JJB - 1 November 2007

Oil is up to $96 a barrel, and the stock market is down over 200 points after an hour of trading.

If you dig real deep at the NY Times website, you’ll find this story suggesting that Pakistan is coming apart at the seams:

A suicide attack on an Air Force bus killed eight people on Thursday as security forces said they wiped out up to 70 militants in northwest Pakistan, fuelling talk President Pervez Musharraf would invoke emergency powers to put off elections.

Nuclear-armed Pakistan is going through a period of intense uncertainty in the run up to a vote due in January that is supposed to transform the country into a civilian-led democracy.

“With reference to extremists and terrorists, it’s a bad situation,” said Javed Iqbal Cheema, head of the Interior Ministry’s Crisis Management Cell.

“It’s a very serious threat to Pakistan’s internal security.”

The Supreme Court added to tensions on Thursday by dragging out hearings on whether U.S. ally General Musharraf was eligible to have stood for re-election while still army chief in a vote in parliament that he won easily early last month.

63. JJB - 1 November 2007

You all remember the story of Noah and the Great Flood, which the ancient Hebrews plagiarized from the even more ancient Mesopotamians (see Gilgamesh for the details). We may be about to see it occur again, as a large dam in the vicinity of Mosul is structurally unsound, and it has been determined that it could give way at any moment:

catastrophic failure of the largest dam in Iraq would send a wave 65ft high hurtling down the valley of the river Tigris, killing up to 500,000 people, US engineers warned yesterday.

The dam, which is near Mosul in the north of the country, was built in 1984 on a bed of water-soluble rock and is in imminent danger of collapse. “In terms of the internal erosion potential of the foundation, Mosul Dam is the most dangerous dam in the world,” said a report by the US Army Corps of Engineers. “If a small problem [at] Mosul dam occurs, failure is likely.” The collapse of the two-mile long, earth-filled dam would release eight billion cubic metres of water in the lake behind it in a giant wave which would flood Mosul–a city of 1.7 million people 20 miles downstream–to a depth of 60ft.

“A catastrophic failure of the Mosul Dam would result in flooding along the Tigris river all the way to Baghdad,” the US military commander General David Petraeus and the US ambassador Ryan Crocker warned the Iraqi prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, in a letter on 3 May this year. “Assuming a worst-case scenario, an instantaneous failure of Mosul Dam filled to its maximum operating level could result in a flood wave 20m deep at the city of Mosul, which would result in a significant loss of life and property.”

I’m guessing that if Mosul ends up being under 60 feet of water, there will be few, if any, survivors, and many hundreds of thousands more people will die as the massive flood wall makes its way downstream.

64. sabrina - 1 November 2007

Hair Club #35 thanks for the info on MACs …

Moiv #38 thanks, couldn’t remember her name …

I wonder what will happen to these brave monks:

Via DU:

Burmese Monks March Again Ahead of Visit by UN Envoy

BANGKOK, Thursday, Nov. 1 — A small group of Buddhist monks held a protest march in Myanmar on Wednesday in the first significant public show of defiance since troops crushed a pro-democracy uprising a month ago.

Reports from inside the country said 100 to 200 monks had defied a ban on assembly and marched through the streets of Pakokku, a medium-sized city in central Myanmar that was the site of a clash between monks and soldiers in September that set off the mass protests in larger cities.

Aung Din, a Burmese dissident living in Washington, predicted more challenges to the government with the approaching return of the United Nations special envoy, Ibrahim Gambari. Mr. Gambari, who had visited shortly after the crackdown, will meet with a “a broad range of representatives of Myanmar society” from Saturday through next Thursday, the United Nations said.


The monks in Pakokku on Wednesday reportedly demanded lower fuel prices and the release of political prisoners.

65. JJB - 1 November 2007

More interesting news (as in “may you live in interesting times”) from Pakistan, Benazir Bhutto has left for Dubai to spend more time with her family, as our rulers like to say when they quit sticky situations:

The Pakistani opposition leader Benazir Bhutto left Pakistan today for what she said was a visit to Dubai, according to news agency reports.

“She has gone to Dubai to see her ailing mother and children,” her spokesman, Farhatullah Babar, said Thursday afternoon after Ms. Bhutto flew from Karachi, according to The Associated Press. She is expected back by Nov. 9 for a rally by her Pakistan People’s Party,

Ms. Bhutto went ahead with the trip even though at a press conference in Karachi on Wednesday evening she had said she was considering postponing her departure because of speculation that the Pakistani president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, might impose emergency rule.

Such speculation relates to a Supreme Court ruling, now expected in mid-November, on whether General Musharraf was eligible for the presidential election he won in early October. If it rules that he was not, the thinking goes, he might declare emergency rule to retain power after his current term expires on Nov. 15.

The Supreme Court must also rule soon on whether an amnesty for Ms. Bhutto related to corruption charges is legal.

66. marisacat - 1 November 2007

Jsut let all three of JJB’s out of moderation… SORRY!

67. BooHooHooMan - 1 November 2007

Oh this is rich.


Pot meet kettle. Paid Blogger banned for politcal views on the Plain Dealer expresses outrage on DK. Fuck all ‘o these twits…

68. mattes - 1 November 2007

Israel wins, blocks anything significant from Peace Conference Summit

pff diary

BREAKING: Saudis don’t want war in Iran!! Checkmate!

pff diary

69. cad - 1 November 2007

Kos finally stands up for the environment — no not taking down Chevron ads — but striking a blow against too much mail!


70. marisacat - 1 November 2007

Mike Davis:

More recently, on the very eve of the new firestorms, county supervisors endorsed a so-called “shelter in place” strategy that will permit developers to build in the rugged, high-fire-risk backcountry without having to provide the secondary roads needed to ensure safe evacuation. Instead residents would be encouraged to stay in their “fire resistant” homes while fire-fighters defended the perimeter of their cul-de-sac.

As scores of fire experts and survivors have pointed out in angry op-ed columns and blogs, this is a lunatic, if not homicidal, scheme that elevates developers’ bottom-lines over human life. Those who have actually confronted 100-foot-high firestorms, driven by hurricane-velocity winds, know that the developer slogan — “It’s not where you build, but how you build” — is a deadly deception.

Talk about suicide by developer.

71. JJB - 1 November 2007

Even is a home is “fire-resistant,” you could die of smoke inhalation. Or succumb to the intense heat. Or the firestorm could be so intense it just sucks up all the available oxygen, and you die because of that. That’s what killed untold numbers of people when we firebombed Tokyo towards the end of WWII.

72. marisacat - 1 November 2007

Talk about “The Late Great State of California” as Curt Gentry put it, decades ago…

The Great God Pan: How to Kill A Golden State

In the years between 1980 and 1990, the population of Riverside county grew by nearly 80%—the fastest-growing county in the state. Over one and a half million people now reside within its 7,000-plus square miles of, what its boosters claim are, “fertile river valleys, low deserts, mountains, foothills and rolling plains.”

If you’ve driven through Riverside county you will see the the people do not live in “fertile valleys” or “grassy plains,” they reside in sequestered stucco “communities” with colorful Hispano-mediterranean names and common walls. Scraped out of hillsides by earth-moving equipment and violently landscaped, the planners of these villas and townhomes have not only ignored their natural surroundings, they have assaulted them.

Puny Orange County, at only 798 square miles, manages to cram more than 2.5 million people between its borders. Its secret? When older communities like Anaheim and Santa Ana become too dense with immigrants, the well-to-do head south into the canyons to new “master-planned” cities like Lake Forest and Aliso Viejo. Giant stairsteps sliced into the coastal mountain—at the current rate of four acres a day—will provide more than ample foundation for the masses to come. According to a recent article in the Los Angeles Times, a mere 62% of the county has been developed. There’s plenty left

73. JJB - 1 November 2007

Dow is now down 290 points, as of 3:20 pm EDT. That’s after a bad day yesterday. Currently down something like 420 points from Wednesday’s opening bell, IIRC.

74. wozzle - 1 November 2007

Mcat #70; it’s called “Letting the money do the thinking” and it’s been all the rage for, oh, decades now…

JJB #71, yeah, oxygen depletion will kill you just as effectively; it’ll leave a prettier corpse, though.

75. marisacat - 1 November 2007


too right, both Gentry’s book and Bronson’s book (his mentioned at The Great God Pan link) are from ’68.

As a native Californian I blame the post war free way system and air conditioning.

And, let it be said, people running away from much of the rest of the country, for a couple centuries.

76. BooHooHooMan - 1 November 2007

Next year on TV?
Jason Melrath as Delaware Dem, the Bounty Hunter?


77. JJB - 1 November 2007

Paul Tibbets, pilor of the plane that nuked Hiroshima, has died at the age of 92:

Brig. Gen. Paul W. Tibbets Jr., the commander and pilot of the Enola Gay, the B-29 Superfortress that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima in the final days of World War II, died today at his home in Columbus, Ohio. He was 92.

His death was announced by a friend, Gerry Newhouse, who said General Tibbets had been in decline with a variety of ailments. Mr. Newhouse said General Tibbets had requested that there be no funeral or headstone, fearing it would give his detractors a place to protest.

In the hours before dawn on Aug. 6, 1945, the Enola Gay lifted off from the island of Tinian carrying a uranium atomic bomb assembled under extraordinary secrecy in the vast endeavor known as the Manhattan Project.

Six and a half hours later, under clear skies, then-Colonel Tibbets, of the Army Air Forces, guided the four-engine plane he had named in honor of his mother toward the bomb’s aiming point, the T-shaped Aioi Bridge in the center of Hiroshima, the site of an important Japanese army headquarters.

At 8:15 a.m. local time, the bomb known to its creators as Little Boy dropped free at an altitude of 31,000 feet. Forty-three seconds later, at 1,890 feet above ground zero, it exploded in a nuclear inferno that left tens of thousands dead and dying and turned much of Hiroshima, a city of some 250,000 at the time, into a scorched ruin.

Colonel Tibbets executed a well-rehearsed diving turn to avoid the blast effect.

In his memoir “The Tibbets Story,” he told of “the awesome sight that met our eyes as we turned for a heading that would take us alongside the burning, devastated city.”

“The giant purple mushroom, which the tail-gunner had described, had already risen to a height of 45,000 feet, 3 miles above our own altitude, and was still boiling upward like something terribly alive,” he remembered.

Three days later, an even more powerful atomic bomb — a plutonium device — was dropped on Nagasaki from a B-29 flown by Maj. Charles W. Sweeney.

On Aug. 15, Japan surrendered, bringing World War II to an end.

The crews who flew the atomic strikes were seen by Americans as saviors who had averted the huge casualties that were expected to result from an invasion of Japan. But questions were eventually raised concerning the morality of atomic warfare and the need for the Truman administration to drop the bomb in order to secure Japan’s surrender.

General Tibbets never wavered in defense of his mission.

“I was anxious to do it,” he told an interviewer for the Public Broadcasting System television documentary “The Men Who Brought the Dawn,” marking the 50th anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing. “I wanted to do everything that I could to subdue Japan. I wanted to kill the bastards. That was the attitude of the United States in those years.” “I have been convinced that we saved more lives than we took,” he said, referring to both American and Japanese casualties from an invasion of Japan. “It would have been morally wrong if we’d have had that weapon and not used it and let a million more people die.”

[big snip]

General Tibbets’s s wartime experiences were dramatized in the 1952 MGM movie “Above and Beyond,” in which he was portrayed by Robert Taylor.

As the years passed, he became a symbolic figure in the controversy over use of the atomic bomb.

While he was deputy chief of the United States military supply mission in India in 1965, a pro-Communist newspaper denounced him as “the world’s greatest killer.” In 1976, he drew a protest from Hiroshima’s mayor, Takeshi Araki, when he flew a B-29 in a simulation of the Hiroshima bombing at an air show in Texas.


[In early 2003], General Tibbets visited the Virginia Aviation Museum in Richmond. “There is no morality in war,” The Virginian-Pilot quoted him as saying then. “A way must be found to eliminate war as a means of settling quarrels between nations.”

At the same time, General Tibbets expressed no regrets over his role in the launching of atomic warfare. “I viewed my mission as one to save lives,” he said. “I didn’t bomb Pearl Harbor. I didn’t start the war, but I was going to finish it.”

IIRC, one of the crew members of the plane that dropped the Bomb on Nagasaki (either the pilot or the navigator) became horrified by what he’d taken part in as the years passed, and he became an outspoken critic of the bombings. Unfortunately, he suffered a breakdown, became an alcoholic, and died a broken man circa 1960. By early 1945, perhaps even sooner, the Japanese would almost certainly have accepted a negotiated peace under which the Emperor would not be tried for war crimes and left him on the throne, but we insisted on “unconditional surrender.” When we got it, we declined to prosecute the Emperor for war crimes on the grounds that he was merely a figurehead, and left him on the throne. It’s quite likely that the bloody campaigns for Iwo Jima and (much, much worse) Okinawa were needless, as was the massive bombing campaign follwing our conquest of Iwo in which an untold number of Japanese civilians were killed.

78. marisacat - 1 November 2007

I honestly believe that using the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a pure display of power and using that power to kill and inflict terror. And leave the living dead, survivors and their memories… Same as Vietnam, same as now, same as all of it.

And all of it unnecessary. All of it.

I caught that horror Fouad Adjami a few weeks ago on Charlie Rose (we don’t have enough fucking murderous assholes WE HAVE TO IMPORT THEM and give them citizenship, arghhhhhh) saying tht the US is now “romanced” all thru the ME, as we have shown what we are willing to do.

yes we have shown what we will do: destroy, maim, kill, a society and its people. Set millions into diaspora.

Really just the end.

79. JJB - 1 November 2007

The Dow lost 362 points today. So I think that’s almost 500 points between today and yesterday.

Today’s loss came after the Fed pumped over $40 billion into the economy in the hopes of staving off just such a massacre.

80. marisacat - 1 November 2007

wasn’t it also 80 billion pumped in a few weeks ago?

Another pt shave and another pump of cash — and then this. Well, I suppose they find a way to shore it up again. Maybe they can burn the underbrush. Oops, they built it up without secondary emergency roads out.


81. JJB - 1 November 2007


They did something a few weeks ago, the last time there was this sort of awful day. What the exact amount was I don’t know, but there’s only so much of this kind of thing you can do until finally it has no effect, or an effect opposite to that intended, which could be what happened today.

82. ms_xeno - 1 November 2007

Speaking of fuel: I can barely hold on to the Mayor of Vancouver’s name but for ten cents I’d slap him. Hard. I cross the OR-WA border to get to work each day, and this jackass seems determined to screw with Vancouver’s transit system until nobody will be able to get into his precious city unless they can drive and afford a car. Messing with routes, locations of stops, adding more transfers, passing out conflicting info to bus drivers as to costs, etc. A driver today told me that they’re cutting a huge chunk of his route off– to another area full of factories. Doubtful that all those workers can afford cars. My area is still accessable, for now.

A royal pain all around. In his zeal to keep Blacks, Latinos, and the homeless from fouling his precious city, he’s going to end up strangling it altogether. I guess he thinks it’s going to turn into a giant leisure village or something.

Ladies and gentleman, I give you the Progressive’s Mecca: The Pacific Northwest. :p

83. marisacat - 1 November 2007

ms x

oh he is a clever man. Given a decent transit system, that operates and functions reliably, geesh, good heavens, the poor will use it to get to work.

84. marisacat - 1 November 2007

one of several reports, this from AP

[T]he Federal Reserve Bank of New York, which carries out the central bank’s open market operations, moved Thursday to inject $41 billion in temporary reserves into the U.S financial system. It came as part of ongoing efforts designed to ensure that the markets — which have suffered through a period of turbulence over the last few months — function smoothly. The cash infusion came in three separate operations.

A New York Fed spokesman said it was the largest single day of operations since $50.35 billion was pumped into the system on Sept. 19, 2001, following the terror strikes on New York and Washington. He declined further comment.

Fed policymakers at their meeting on Wednesday noted that the “strains from financial markets have eased somewhat on balance.” Still many Fed officials in the last week have described the state of financial markets as fragile. Bernanke and other Fed officials have said it will take time for the markets to fully recover from the credit crisis.

Since August, the Fed has been pumping cash into the financial system to help ease strains from the credit crunch.

It also has cut its lending rate to banks — a third such cut came on Wednesday. The Fed also has ordered two reductions to its most important interest rate, the funds rate, to help the situation.

85. ms_xeno - 1 November 2007

Plus, Mcat, you know the same clowns who whined about their taxes and “business friendly blah blah blah” will be the same people whining when the gutted transit system can’t help keep their damn factories running.

86. wu ming - 1 November 2007

bingo, ms_x. as if vancouver has much to recommend itself except for no income tax (by state constitution!) and gas that you can pump yourself.

cutting yourself off from portland is beyond daft.

87. wu ming - 1 November 2007

oh, and i just got the potatoes in. should be ready to stave off the apocalypse in a couple of months. hope the triggerhappy bastards can hold off that long.

88. Hair Club for Men - 1 November 2007

and gas that you can pump yourself

The Oregon/New Jersey connection.

Ladies and gentleman, I give you the Progressive’s Mecca: The Pacific Northwest. :p

I lived in Seattle in the 90s. That liberalism always seemed pretty shallow. That “I hate Californians” xenophobia always struck me as a sort of anti-urban, anti-immigrant sentiment in disguise.

And you never go to the woods anyway. There’s too much traffic. You’re basically living in Any Suburb USA with some snowcapped volcanos in the distance, kind of like Connecticut with mountains instead of history and cheesy New England kitsch.

89. Hair Club for Men - 1 November 2007

Media is in anti-Hillary overdrive.

Obama and Edwards are “Daring the Hope”.

90. marisacat - 1 November 2007

well shortly before he pretty much self immolated (took on people over at PFF who knew his dual/multiple online lives) ST/TBC was setting off on a prolonged mock shock over how illiberal SF is.

Wowo what news. not.

(speaking of the so-called great liberal redoubts)

91. Hair Club for Men - 1 November 2007

on a prolonged mock shock over how illiberal SF is.Wowo what news. not

I feel your pain. The idea that NYC is “liberal” is a long time peeve of mine. Now it’s gone national with the idea that Adolf Benito Giuliani the Ex Gauleiter of New York is somehow more liberal than Huckabee or Fred Thompson.

Believe me, Benito Giuliani is normality in the New York area.

92. Hair Club for Men - 1 November 2007

The Troll Patrol needs to mobilize NOW


93. ms_xeno - 1 November 2007



Damn you, Hair Club. If I wasn’t already married…

[clutches aching ribs.]

94. Pancho Villa's Ghost - 1 November 2007

The Towering Racial Inferno: Disaster Capitalism in Cali

Catastrophe provides the opening, and racism the popular support, for government policies that would be deemed unacceptable except for the presence of actual disaster and perceived threat. Therefore, it should have come as no surprise that Border Patrol and local law enforcement agents would “stretch the envelope” of acceptable behavior toward immigrants when flames lit up southern California.

The disastrous events of 9/11 provided the excuse to move the United States closer to a full-blown police state, domestically, and to launch a general war of aggression, internationally. Certainly, 9/11 was a god-send for the Bush regime, although a disaster for the rest of the planet.

Just four years later, while Washington’s global offensive was becoming mired in the sands and cities of Iraq, the Katrina catastrophe offered up another cornucopia of opportunities for the vultures whom George Bush represents. A Black metropolis was quickly emptied, labor laws dumped into the Gulf Coast bays and bayous, public education replaced with privateers, and public housing bulldozed. Everywhere in the nation, neglected, failing neighborhoods signal future profits for the gentrifiers – quick cash for the most unproductive members of society. Were the Bush men happy about 9/11 and Katrina? Damn right, they were! These scavengers also revel in mass death in Darfur, which provides them “humanitarian,” diplomatic and military opportunities to dominate the Sahel region of Africa.

95. marisacat - 1 November 2007

These scavengers also revel in mass death in Darfur, which provides them “humanitarian,” diplomatic and military opportunities to dominate the Sahel region of Africa.


96. Madman in the Marketplace - 1 November 2007

well, fuck Hillary. Her people’s PR machine drove the “inevitable” story for months … and everybody knows the fucking press get bored and start chasing a new story as soon as someone gives them some zippy quotes to use to get that ball running.

Live by PR, die by PR. Fuck them all.

97. marisacat - 1 November 2007

i trolled thru over 20 entries at the TAPPED blog, from their haphazard live blog of the event thru sometime this am.

3 entries to clarify the damned Rocky reference… and unless I missed it, not a single reference to the HillaryPapers that “processeeees” are holding up. And just muddle on the NY state driver’s license…

Geesh. She cannot complain. And it is being used to day (Penn on fundraiser phone call) to raise money for the little beleagured lady.

Hankies all around!


98. aemd - 1 November 2007

Again IOZ nails it. Very good read.

“What sets the Bush Administration apart is only that it has been unabashed where others have been circumspect. This has made it easy for partisans like Tristero to fulminate against abuses that they would have otherwise been happy to ignore.”


He also has a group of postings concerning civil obedience/disobedience. The post and the comments are very interesting.

99. Madman in the Marketplace - 1 November 2007
100. marisacat - 1 November 2007

thanks for that aemd

I see in the comments to that IOZ post someone replicates in full the exhortation from the nutroots for Donna Edwards (signed by Stoller and Hamsher)… MD-4.

Someone this am, just dropped me links to all the nutters pushing her. Now I see it is a big joint effort.

Tells me to beware of Ms Edwards.

101. marisacat - 1 November 2007

LOL Jonthan Karl and Odierno are declaring Victory In the Bagdad Markets… someone wake up McCain…

4th straight month of less violence, they say.

doesn’t quuuiiite explain the refusal of diplomats, foreign service professionals to serve in Baghdad.

Not quite.

102. Madman in the Marketplace - 1 November 2007

Ethnic cleansing makes it harder to find victims, that’s all.

I have something new up:

People in this country have become some kind of weird mutant spawn of a lynch mob and a stampeding herd of frighted sheep.

103. melvin - 1 November 2007

comment 69 – One of these fine days, he’ll notice a bright yellow light up in the sky.

Probably most irritating about this junk mail is the idea that his precious time should be wasted reading something. He who expects politicians to respond within five minutes.

Has he ever had a thought?

104. wu ming - 1 November 2007

that IOZ series is great.

105. Hair Club for Men - 1 November 2007

Interesting quote:

To understand your actual place, you must first discover that you’re not at the center, and then discover that you are very, very small.

Until even a few months ago, I thought that there was a left (and it was good) and there was a right (and it was bad).

My earth was (as Thom Friedman says) flat, running in a straight continuum from Chomsky to Ronald Reagan, and even one half of one tick closer to Chomsky than Reagan was good.

Therefore I voted for Robert Menendez over Kean Jr. even though Mendendez voted for the Military Commissions Act and would probably like to restore the mafia in Cuba. After all, Menendez was one tick closer to Chomsky and Kean was one tick closer to Reagan.

But after the fiasco of the 2006 “victory” I find myself liking both Chomsky and the (reactionary) crowd at anti-war.com and disliking the typical liberal Democrat as much as the typical neocon.

My world is no longer flat. I’m one little dot among a thousand trying to make sense of his fellow dots.

106. Hair Club for Men - 1 November 2007

Damn you, Hair Club. If I wasn’t already married…[clutches aching ribs.]

Funny thing about my time in the Pacific Northwest was this. I look Anglo and speak generic north midwestern standard Amerken English so I didn’t really stand out as a New York “ethnic”.

So when I told people I was from New Jersey they’d always think it was a compliment (to me) that they hadn’t even guessed it.

“Why you don’t have THAT accent”.

Uh, you were expecting Tony Soprano?

I wonder how many people in the northwest will vote for Benito Giuliani (who sort of has THAT accent) over Hillary (who sort of has a fake Southern accent).

107. Hair Club for Men - 1 November 2007

I need a mediocrity fix. I think I’ll go check out Digby.

108. Hair Club for Men - 1 November 2007

Better mediocrity fix, Lindsey Beyerstein on Harman’s thought crimes bill.


She’s being real serious and journalism school like and trying not to let her own opinions intrude.

109. Hair Club for Men - 1 November 2007

Now let’s look at Digby.

Opening door, sees Donna Edwards pitch at the top.

Closes door and walks quietly away.

110. liberalcatnip - 1 November 2007

But after the fiasco of the 2006 “victory” I find myself liking both Chomsky and the (reactionary) crowd at anti-war.com and disliking the typical liberal Democrat as much as the typical neocon.

“liberal Democrats” are an extremely rare breed and are on the endangered species list. dkos is conducting slash and burn/ban clear cutting to attempt to make the species die out completely before Nov ’08. I imagine the Franklin Mint™ may someday produce a commemorative coin following the species’ demise. I’ll let you know when I see the teevee commerical.

111. Intermittent Bystander - 2 November 2007

There are throngs of liberals around the Northeast Corridor (surprise, surprise), but they don’t necessarily hang around on political blogs, and lots of them are Democrats in the voting booth only, and only by default. Cynicism has risen to the brim.

People try to make a difference in their private lives – in their work, in their communities, in their child-rearing, in their random interactions and “consumer choice$” – ’cause they’ve lost their last shreds of confidence in any larger “American system,” most definitely up to and including the Constitution.

Unfortunately, lots of them will wind up enabling Candidate Hillary. They’ll cross their fingers, spit on the floor, sigh, curse, and hope (without faith) for the best. Defensive voting, to keep Rudy or Romney away from the Bill of Rights. Oh, and mind the nukes.

PS to catnip – thanks for the fronds!

112. Intermittent Bystander - 2 November 2007

60 Minutes will be outing Curveball this Sunday, with a 2-year investigative report.

Curve Ball is an Iraqi defector named Rafid Ahmed Alwan, who arrived at a German refugee center in 1999. To bolster his asylum case and increase his importance, he told officials he was a star chemical engineer who had been in charge of a facility at Djerf al Nadaf that was making mobile biological weapons.

60 Minutes has learned that Alwan’s university records indicate he did study chemical engineering but earned nearly all low marks, mostly 50s. Simon’s investigation also uncovered an arrest warrant for theft from the Babel television production company in Baghdad where he once worked.

Also appearing in Sunday’s segment is video that 60 Minutes obtained of Alwan at a Baghdad wedding in 1993 – the first time images of him have ever been made public.

113. Intermittent Bystander - 2 November 2007

Rice says Kurd attacks will be repelled

She didn’t specify just what that meant in speaking with reporters en route to diplomatic meetings in Turkey and the Middle East, and she warned against doing anything that might worsen the volatile situation on the Turkish-Iraqi border.

Rice arrived in Turkey’s capital on Friday for high-level meetings with Turkish officials, including Foreign Minister Ali Babacan. She planned to press the U.S. case that Iraqi Kurds and Turkey should back away from an escalating conflict. So far the U.S. has won no public promises to stand down.

The United States acknowledged this week that it has undertaken limited military moves against the rebels after asserting for weeks that the clash between Iraq and Turkey was a diplomatic matter.

Pentagon officials said the U.S. was flying manned spy planes over the border area, providing Turkey with more intelligence information, and that there are standing orders for American forces to capture rebels they find.

114. Intermittent Bystander - 2 November 2007

Meanwhile, producer Morgan Spurlock, director Rob VanAlkemade, and activist/performance artist Reverend Billy (along with his Church of Stop Shopping Gospel Choir) will soon be bringing a bit of holiday cinema to a theater near you.

What Would Jesus Buy?

The Shopocalypse is upon us … Who will be $aved?

The Gothamist interviews Rev. Billy about his local efforts to, er, save. Snippet:

So it’s pretty heavy that your most recent arrest – in broad daylight, in plain sight of video cameras, IN UNION SQUARE – was prompted by your chanting of The First Amendment. Seriously, what the shit is going on in this city/country/world???

Reciting the haiku of freedom in Union square, in the soul shadows of Emma Goldman and Paul Robeson, it’s like an altar. The police going there in force and publicly disobeying the First Amendment, it’s like a high stakes religious war.

Okay, to be more specific, what do you think motivated Lt Daniel Albano – or his superiors – to order your arrest?

Savitri D and I were very loud and we kept cycling through the 44 words of the amendment and it was a power thing. We were angry that there were so many cops, it was a military scene, more cops than bicyclists. It was Critical Mass Friday. Just that morning, the papers announced that the city was demanding a million bucks insurance and a police permit if you want to film with a tripod for more than 30 minutes in one place. So, they would have arrested Steiglitz for his picture of the Flatiron Building? Wasn’t that tripod picture responsible for modern photography in America? Cops need art more than artists do.

115. marisacat - 2 November 2007

New thread


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: