The wars………… 19 November 2007
Posted by marisacat in Afghanistan War, Beirut, Inconvenient Voice of the Voter, Iran, Iraq War, Israel/AIPAC, The Battle for New Orleans, WAR!.trackback
New Orleans – April – 2005
I landed on this linkless snip in a thread at Rigorous Intuition, from Randall Robinson of TransAfrica, on with Amy / Democracy Now. I am hunting for the original DN link (hard to do as he references the move to St Kitts Nevis often when on the show and has appeared many times over the years since the move, 2001)
– anyway, I think in his references to “bottom stuck” and how America feels it has “done enough” post slavery, de jure apartheid and post Jim Crow, think RR is absolutely on target:
AMY GOODMAN: Why did you quit? Why did you leave America?
RANDALL ROBINSON: Well, we were — my wife, Hazel, and I, with our daughter Kalia were going to a place as much as we were leaving this place. St. Kitts-Nevis is a small exquisitely beautiful, democratic, well-run, civil, decent society, where people care about each other and take care of each other.
These were qualities I had come to find hopelessly lacking, absent, in American society. I had discovered at this age — I was 60 when we left — that I wanted to live in a society for some time, some portion of my life, where race did not have to be a battlement, that one could get beyond that and not feel it always in one’s craw. And it’s a kind of thing that it used up so much of my energy, and the energy of so many in the United States.
But perhaps more importantly, that after the active stage of this great crime against humanity, slavery and de jure discrimination that put together ran for 346 years, America became very satisfied with itself, that it had done all that it was going to do, while the victims of this long-running crime were left wounded in the worst way: families destroyed, chances for healthy socializations gone, prospects nil, and so the main bulk of the black community remained bottom stuck.
The civil rights movement helped people like me, people who had come from intact families, whose parents were healthy enough to encourage us to believe that we could do well. And so, it meant that the door was open, if you could walk, perhaps could you get through it, but many could not, and they remained bottom stuck. Black community cleaved into two parts: those who could benefit and those who were too terribly devastated to do so. Nothing has been done for them.
So, we find ourselves now in a situation in America with a society in terrible shape, but with that condition, fundamentally ignored by those who rule it. It just does not matter, even as it jeopardizes the whole of society. A poll was done recently that showed that a full half of Americans are afraid to venture more than a mile from their homes at night. The whole society has become a sort of prison. We have one 1/20ths of the world’s population with one-fourth of the world’s prisoners. There’s something wrong with that, 2 million and climbing, half of whom are black, because of the reasons I detailed, in addition to the active discrimination that is ongoing.The chance of a black getting arrested, a young black male, are six times that of his white counterpart, of being incarcerated seven times, and once incarcerated will serve a sentence exactly twice as long as his white counterpart for the same crime. Blacks are half of those on death row, three-quarters when they are added to the Hispanic inmate populations. So, this business of locking up people has become a new thriving industry in America with private prisons, in a democracy, which means that in order to have your stock increase in value in a private prison, you have to get more prisoners. So, states like California are investing much more in prison construction than they are in ground-up construction of new universities.
And all of this goes on with the full blessing of not just governments that come and go, Democratic and Republican, but with the full blessing of media, the popular culture, and all of the rest.
In our foreign policy, this hyperpower, I think is coming to endanger the entire world, because now it operates willy-nilly without checks and balances. Iraq is just one example of the kind of disaster that is possible when we have a nation so powerful, so full of itself, unwilling to examine itself, self absorbed, and narcissistic in all of what that means, that it will go forward against the grain of the international community unilaterally, to create the disaster that Iraq will be for many generations to come. It won’t work.To think that we now in Iraq have Muslim women becoming prostitutes, servicing American soldiers just feeds the kind of hatred that is growing and felt towards Americans throughout the Islamic world. It’s a very sad thing, and we get to a point that we cannot make America listen anymore to anybody but itself.I — I just — to preserve my sanity, and I think my voice, I thought it best for me to leave. I wanted to see another place, to feel …
and there the snip in the RigInt thread cut off…
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The other thing is a Reuters report I fell on….. about women serving in the IDF.
JERUSALEM (Reuters) – One posed for a photo as she scrubbed a Palestinian corpse. Another stripped a man to his underwear and then beat him. A third helped cover up the abuse of a young boy.
The six Israeli women who feature in the documentary “To See If I’m Smiling” each wrestle with memories of their compulsory military service that they would rather erase.
But after years of trying to bury the past, they have spoken out in a film that explores the darker side of Israel’s 40-year-old occupation of the Palestinian territories and examines its impact on a generation of young men and women.
…
All but one of the women spent time as conscript soldiers in the Palestinian territories during the uprising that erupted in 2000. In the film, they recount their memories from that period, describing how they coped with military machismo and with the residual guilt about what they witnessed.
[Y]arom hopes the documentary will prompt soul-searching in the Jewish state, where military service is a core part of national identity, and encourage other traumatized ex-soldiers to talk about violence they may have inflicted or witnessed.
“This country is in a coma. With all the bombs and attacks, we are numb,” she said.
“People feel we are in a war of survival and it’s better not to criticize soldiers, because they are the ones protecting us.”
Israel’s army said in a statement that soldiers adhere to a strict ethical code and that in exceptional cases, where the code is violated, an investigation is launched. It said the number of ethical violations involving Palestinians had “consistently dropped” since the events described in the film.
Yarom expects the film, which is due to be televised this weekend, to provoke criticism both from the Israeli left — because of her sympathetic portrayal of the soldiers — and from the right — which often balks at criticizing the army.
Yarom said personal experience prompted her to make the film. As a support soldier during the earlier intifada of the 1980s, she was shown a Palestinian torture victim but failed to speak out.
Almost two decades later, she still cannot shake the image of the man, slumped over a generator, his neck bent to the side and his face covered in blood.
“It’s the kind of picture that stays with you forever,” she said. “During my service I detached myself. When you try to re-attach yourself afterwards it’s painful.”
I wish I thought there were a way out – anytime soon. It is just so immense, so world-wide, so all-encompassing and crushing of anything resembling a political process in this country – that I am not hopeful….
**********************************************
have to love it, Smithee defines DavidByron (in Hair Club’s diary thread at PFF):
we are so blessed that they look out for us:
and don’t miss this tidbit…
Lordy.
LOL caveat, it is Fund in the WSJ (not behind a wall), But it is also FUN!
issue them weapons and stand back, with luck each is successful.
AND, at least Fund did not call Steny a “liberal”.
Saw Kos on Bill Maher getting in his quick shots at Kucinich when he was defended. And Bill Maher is such a pompous jack-ass. All that palling with Arianna and Hefner is curdling his mind.
CNN is broadcasting a hearing on the oil spill–though I can’t get the friggin CNN video to work–anyone watching?
i believe the alamo is available for a reasonable fee.
Miss D
I slept thru the am and had no idea they would broadcast it… the hearing is here on the Presidio.
*******
cad
isn’t punditry a fallow field. Such creeps get in then lie around doing nothing … gibberish.
********
bay
anything that kills them both off… 😉
speaking of “the wars”…
That was the snip from the TO email… but here is more from the text. I can hear the Great Grumblers at their keyboards huumpfh large puppets! Probably a Mumia poster too!
Safe to say there were no pro-Chevron ads however.
here is a dicey tid bit in the Spiegel today:
Anyone been following this diary series by Lukery on Daily Kos about the Sibel Edmonds affair? http://lukery.dailykos.com/
I’m not sure what I think about the Edmonds affair (I just never have time to sift through it all and do my own research). But one thing that I find interesting is that these diaries seem to be avoided like the plague by Daily Kos’s usual team of Hasbara trolls. You’d think they’d be all over them like white on rice.
A girl I used to have a massive crush on in high school used to stand up and cheer every time it was announced over the school intercom that the football team lost.
I never got the courage to talk to her. But it doesn’t mean I can’t pay homage to her by rooting for these guys.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071119/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_venezuela
SA
had not seen that diary from Lukery. I happen to believe Sibel Edmonds, she makes a lot of sense to me. And to Sen Grassley as well, from what I Read in the past. And to Ellsberg as well.
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hmmm saw this in The Note. There should be a debate in the West (not that I give a shit, to be frank, but still):
ooo I love her:
Woa. New Mike Huckabee commericials.
Huckabee: I’ve got the guy to secure out borders Chuck Norris
Norris: I’m going to protect our second amendment rights.
Uh, gonna shoot some wetbacks Chuck?
re Norris Huckabee commercial.
Yes it struck me too.
So clear, they are “caging” the vote to be on
“Securitat” as in vote for SAVAK, or other US based invasive intel and police based police state… Homeland Division.
and
“immigration”, masking for race hatred, division, fear, etc.
I knew I recognized those quotes – ya mas: [fixed the link — Mcat]
&
elsewise, have you heard/read about CA requiring volunteers to sing “Loyalty Oaths” before being certified to cleanup ‘legally’?
sorry, screwed up yet another link – here:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/03/1628209
Arcturus
I ahve not read of loyalty oaths. Been following i tin the press and at
http://zunasurf.wordpress.com
Which is the surfers who began organising to clean at OB.
However I notice they have yet to approve my first and only comment of yesterday. While others posted after mine have appeared.
I would not be surprised by loyalty oaths, but if so, people need to SPEAK UP
AND REFUSE.
How did you hear of it ????
thanks for the DN link… the search engine there is not the greatest (and I am a poor searcher)
Of course if I’m an illegal immigrant, my chances of being killed by Minutemen or Skinheads (in New Jersey anyway) aren’t that big.
The real problem is this:
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newjersey/ny-bc-nj–immigrantbeatingd1117nov17,0,1975456.story
I’m going to jump to conclusions and assume these three guys are African Americans.
The three men _ Muhammad Glasper, 20; Gregory Greene Jr., 19, and Willie Greene, 18, all of Plainfield _ were all arrested at their homes at about 5:30 a.m. Friday, said Police Chief Edward Santiago.
Gangs are on the rise.
http://www.c-n.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071026/NEWS/710260325
TRENTON — Two hundred forty-four municipalities in the state are reportedly home to street gangs, and more than a quarter of the cities and towns with gangs report a “high intensity” presence, according to a state police survey released Thursday.
Of course some of the gangs are immigrant gangs and there are probably hate crimes against immigrants by white racists that go unreported.
BUT the clear danger it seems to me if you’re an illegal is that you’re picked off as an easy mark, someone who won’t go to the cops if you get robbed.
Sometimes robberies that go bad turn into murders.
ALSO, there are mid sized companies (plenty of them) around me where they hire immigrants from Asia, Latin America and Asia but not African Americans from Newark.
That creates enormous resentment against Hispanics. The East Europeans tend to be a bit safer because they have their own gangs and organized crime families.
elsewise, have you heard/read about CA requiring volunteers to sing “Loyalty Oaths” before being certified to cleanup ‘legally’?
I have a fake Communist Party membership card somewhere. I’d think about getting a jokey Al Qaeda membership card but I keep thinking that Jose Padilla was jailed for life for basically filling out an Al Qaeda membership application.
Yea, I know about zuna – good stuff there – I first heard about the oaths on Flashpoints’ Friday broadcast (but there’s nothing abt it in their show write-up) – I missed the beginning of it & think the guy interviewed went to a SF training session , but it might have been east bay – he DID refuse – apparaently it’s in the CA Code, but not being enforced everywhere
from the Xron:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/17/HOO9TBVD0.DTL
Code:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=gov&group=03001-04000&file=3100-3109
oath’s here:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_20
It’s all beyond irony, satire, rant . . . simply beyond . . .
{Yo Hairdoodie – while you’re doing remedial reading, check out the recentish Supreme Court reasoning settling the Western Shoshone claims & the Treaty OF Ruby Valley}
The Warning – NIN
German commentators say that could mean that war is on the horizon.
Might as well just strike a match to the whole fucking globe. They could start with the two petroleum spills.
thanks for that Arcturus.
I remember on Dkos when the “loyalty oaths” swetp thru we had to explain why it ws upsetting and why we were not running off to sign some fucked online oath to vote for the Dem candidate.
The only oath I could ever [barely] imagine taking would be some form of what federal employees promise, to defend America agaisnt all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.
thanks for the links.
Arcturus, good to “see” you and thanks for the excellent links/excerpts.
Do you have to run a knife across your palm and smear it across a state flag after the recitation of that oath?
well, this is the State’s version of same – mebbe you wanna fill in the appropriate blanks & sign on the dotted line? 🙂
all to be safely filed away, of course
Dennis Kucinich at the School of the Americas Protest
read the oath. That is ridiculous. I could nto do that…
maybe if I was fool enough to run for office, but to clean a beach? That I use?
gee.
25
yeah but I did not run for office. Get involved in that foolishness… and whooops.
EXCLUSIVE: Daniel Ellsberg Says Sibel Edmonds Case ‘Far More Explosive Than Pentagon Papers’
Later in the piece:
Sorry for the long clip … I couldn’t pick just a piece.
THEY WILL COME: Post-Disaster Volunteers and Local Governments
wow, why didn’t they subtitle that gov’t publication:
“A Shepherd’s Guide”
oh not to worry! Lantos is on the accident! (watching the field hearing from the Presidio today, evening news). They will find al qaida on the Cosco Busan.
any minute now.
I see Pelosi dragged Barbara Lee with her, conspicuously checking her watch as she stands behind Pelosi. COULD SOME ONE OF THEM DO ANYTHING?
if anyone wants to listen, here’s the link to the Flashpoints show w/ the fell who thot the same:
http://flashpoints.net/index.html#2007-11-16
I don’t remember at what point in the show Dennis interviews him
doesn’t sound like there’s going to be a foloow-up tonight – they just announced an ecologist will be talking about the spill (94.1 FM):
http://www.kpfa.org/listen/
i otter git back ta me woik
well there you go… (seems to me the Tillman mother has a similar tale, they told Waxman exactly what to subpoena, documents between exact narrow frame dates – and his office just sticks fingers in ears):
Olbermann nominated Chavez for runnerup in the worst person in the world award.
And he was really, really mad when McCain “laughed” at the woman who called Hillary a “bitch”.
Keith’s floppy jackass ears are showing out from under his angry citizen hat.
seems to me that in the past, maybe when chavez (and others) addressed the UN two years ago, that KO toed the quite distasteful Dem party line… which was LOL the Repub party line.
Bush GOOD, he’s ours! Chavez BAD, he is someoen else!
… etc.
I thought the bitch thing was a hoot! and the ONLY political observation to make is that both sides made use of it to raise money.
Keith needs to stash the Dem party patsy award. But he won’t………………….
Onward! To more exhortations to vote for the bitch.
I thought the bitch thing was a hoot!
Keith played the clip and I chuckled. Then the next thing I knew Keith was talking about McCain. “He laughed. Yes. He LAUGHED”.
Keith was so angry he could barely contain himself.
But what made it funny wasn’t the idea of someone calling Hillary a bitch, it’s the constant stream of crazy old Republican ladies that seem to pop up constantly in the McCain campaign.
Something Mel Brooks about it.
I know how much our hostess enjoys his foodie posts: IOZ gets into the spirit of the holidays:
The rest of the menu sounds yummy.
The fucking insiders GLOAT about it. Lawrence O’Donnell on “Countdown” (typing from closed captioning):
And he’s fucking right. THE LEFT NEEDS TO STAY HOME OR LEAVE THAT BALLOT LINE BLANK, just as the right/racist wing in the party has done to more liberal nominees in the past. Vote Green, write in Chavez, draw a little “Free Mumia” graffito there …
Why doesn’t anybody want to face that? People should be saying “Thanks Ralph” for stating the bald-faced honest truth instead of blaming him for that wimp Gore’s abdication of his election.
No more from me. I’m done.
Rig Int has words to go w/ the graphic he put up the other day, about the sad truth of the people behind the comics that both he and I grew up reading.
The Poor you always have with you:
WATCHDOG FINDS CRUCIFIXES MADE UNDER HORRIFIC SWEATSHOP CONDITIONS IN
CHINA
Crucifixes made under horrific sweatshop conditions in China are
linked to New York’s Saint Patrick’s Cathedral and Trinity Church, and
nationally to the $4.63 billion Association for Christian Retail.
Young women are forced to work 100-hour workweeks, while being paid just 26 ½ cents an hour. One worker cried out, “Jesus, take pity on me! I’m going to die of exhaustion!”
WHO: Charles Kernaghan, director of the National Labor
Committee, has exposed sweatshop production and child labor for Kathie Lee Gifford, Wal-Mart, GAP, Sean Combs, Disney, and the descent of the U.S.-Jordan Free Trade Agreement into human trafficking—with foreign guest workers held under slave-like conditions. Kernaghan recently testified at a U.S. Senate hearing on sweatshop toy production in China
LO’D: The Democratic calculation in the Senate is ALWAYS “the left has nowhere to go” but the Democratic Party. I’ve never been in a meeting in the Senate WHERE THERE WAS ANY OTHER PRESUMPTION (emphasis mine, as he delivered that line with smarmy self-satisfaction and a slight smirk)
There’s something else though.
The Democratic Party *could lose* in spite of the epic collapse of the Republicans over 2005 and 2006.
Why?
The vanity of Hillary Clinton.
Had the Democrats run Mark Warner they would have already won. But Hillary forced him out of the race by boxing him out of the big donors and media people.
So anytime somebody accuses YOU of being selfish, remember, the only thing that unites the Republicans is hatred of the Clintons.
And that might mean President Huckabee and Vice President Norris in 2008.
Fine w/ me … America DESERVES more rightist horror.
America DESERVES more rightist horror.
Which you’ll get with either party.
OK now I’m going to watch Jon Stewart, then read some DIGBY, then go out and make sure no wingnut’s touched the Kerry/Edwards sticker on my Volvo, then I’m going to go stick some pins in my Ralph Nader doll, then turn in for the night.
Remember. More and Better Democrats 2008.
Jon Stewart’s running the anti-Chavez line and playing on every Latin stereotype out there.
yup, so let them get the bitter medicine straight, not cut with a small amount of artificial sweetener.
Jon Stewart: “In South American isn’t a coup a midterm”.
FUCK YOU
Google Chile 1973 Kissinger
You it’s all them Latin greaseballs and their penchet for epaulets and swagger sticks you glib creep.
OOO Protesting Hillary meetups
http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2007/11/92864.html
Stewart is an idiot when it comes to Chavez, and has been for a while.
Stewart is an idiot when it comes to Chavez, and has been for a while.
I never realized what a racist against Latins he was.
I thought he was a sophisticated sort of guy who might have travelled a bit.
everybody seems to have some stupid blindspot.
Oh, and Larry Flynt would like Dennis Kucinich to be our next President.
the left has to stop voting for them.
But they won’t. And people have utterly cleaved to the idea that “your vote counts”.
But for voting there would be tanks in the street, etc.
L O”donnell is like a nice R. He was heavily for Kerry all along last go round.
Why would Warner be better? The guy who thought chocoloate fountains would grease the way. Did not quite work out, another White Daddy for kos, as I saw it.
One more shit. Frankly my take at the time was that the Clinton camp had dirt. Much more than shutting down big donors. That is too easy an excuse.
They would let him run for gov of Va. Or, he can try for senate for the old R Warner seat.
Such a pity it all is.
But people keep voting for war mongers.
Why would Warner be better?
He wouldn’t be better, just more “electable”. No wingnut could really build up a strong enough sense of outrage against Warner.
It would be like the Republicans running Lincoln Chaffee.
electible means able to go the distance.
Warner was felled early in a poltiical battle.
Nothing more than a local bullshitter. I mean let’s get real, the car phone maven vineyardist. Always a whiff about all that money.
Or did he think the swamp BOrgias don’t play to keep. With Democrats that is.
May they all kill each other. Distribute weapons, etc.
a self portrait
http://www.pbase.com/image/89220717
such a rough road ahead for the boys and girls…
29
Think Progress deleting comments about Sibel Edmonds in the thread attached to a post from their honored guest blogger, Henry Waxman.
Brad protests.
IIRC Think Progress is a CAP project, with a staff of 5.
CAP is a Clintonite endeavor.
Thanks for that moiv…
😉
comment 19 is HCfM, rescued just now from Spam…
sorry for the delay!
Think Progress deleting comments about Sibel Edmonds
I’m weary of the latest scoop. Maybe it’s because that’s how “they” want me to be. Maybe it’s because I know that they already have enough information public to impeach Bush 100 times over and cut off aid to Israel forever.
It’s just the political will that’s lacking.
From Daniel Ellsberg’s autobiography.
Nixon had Haldemann spread Kennedy conspiracy theories in order to much up the waters and discredit people who were trying to call attention to the real conspiracy (Watergate).
I’d even argue that the Ron Paul coin bust is similar to what the FBI did to AIM with “Camp 13”.
But once again, I’m weary.
The Internet’s only made things worse. Even Indymedia sites delete stuff they don’t like.
It’s just more noise and little content.
well I am opposed to deleting. I don’t care how wearing it is…
AND of course they have enough to impeach. IF THEY WANTED TO. They don’t.
Just as I am tired of people bitching about how badly the Democrats are treated by the media.
They, the Dem party, participate in that. And LOL they delete. When it is inconvenient to the story line.
I see donkeytitz and shitz finally dropped the paid for mask.
and it is not pretty. One more hater. What else is new.
Another garden well tended on the netteries and Blahgs. The haters. And of course the conservatives. Well tended, watered and fed growth hormones.
I didn’t think it was funny when McCain chuckled along with the ugly old bigot and the audience, all sharing collective fantasies of a wife in every kitchen. It’s revealing as to how these folk really think.
he should push away from the keyboard and go work on his issues. its pretty evident he’s got more than a few.
and time is short.
I saw that he tried to clean up after himself in the next comment down, but it still left a greasy stain.
some sort of stain, shall we say.
LOL.
Think that sort really gets off on it. Reminds me of noom/moon who lost it here in the thread to a post on Sabra Chatila camp massacres.
I am sure the horror set him off, in the same way.
Saliva running down their chinny chin chins.
that think progress thread is hoot. lots of pushback in that thread. someone should do the admin a favor and toss him a taser. most of the donk commenters seemed SHOCKED that TP appears as nothing more than a partisan organzation covering up for one of their stars by delenting inconvenient statements that contradict the “truth” the site sells.
never seen that before. :::yawn:::
some good comments though. I like this one.
and this one is priceless!
ca chinggggg!!!
LOL.. the door can slapya on the way back IN, too.
Yes, some of the TP faithful seemed to be having a Saul-on-the-road-to-Damascus moment.
Knocked right off their donkeys.
From Zuna Surf commentary:
Just as I am tired of people bitching about how badly the Democrats are treated by the media.
It’s only November of 2007. “The media’s being mean to Hillary” is going to be their whole campaign in the netroots.
she thought it was politically motivated to open the beach
that is the source of so damned many problems.
It’s only November of 2007. “The media’s being mean to Hillary” is going to be their whole campaign in the netroots.
yup, and Edwards said one smart thing last week. If Hillary thinks the little slap fightwas coming from Obama and Edwards is “piling on”, then she is even less prepared for next year than Kerry was for his campaign.
sure it is… because it works with Democrats. Over and over.
Months ago the NYT ran a very mild 2 pager on The Clintons. On page 2 they mentioned by name the Canadian woman Bill had previously been publicly linked with… Couple very soft comments in the piece.
I personally thought it was a piece that the Clintons approved, sub rosa.
Oh the blahgs wrent their hair shirts. And I watched people rise to defend the Clintons (its a business really, verging on a life long event) and in her hour of need, turn toward her.
so yeah, “the media is so mean to Hillary” will be the theme song. And I must say Bill is esp peevish when he pulls that shit.
12 months. Too damned long.
found this at Angry Arab, Monbiot on the ISraeli nuclear program
The Republicans are obviously trying to lower expecations. They’re going to come roaring out with everything blazing as soon as Hillary is official.
I still think the Dems will win (It won’t be a repeat of 1988. Hillary’s not as inept as Dukakis). But it *will* mean a bullshit campaign with Republicans “beating the bitch” and the Democrats calling 911 and reporting the domestic violence, every 5 minutes.
Nobody will talk about issues. Nobody right now is talking about Tom Harkins’s rigging Iowa against Kucinich.
Re: “Veronica the Viking” as European
Why do I get a sense from reading “her” Kennedy conspiracy posts that “she” is an American?
“her” voice is too jumbled for me… by now it seems likely it is some construct identity.
I get tired of the theme that Europeans are better in all ways. Thanks, been around the block too often for that one. They are better at some things, for a range of reasons. And too many European countries have supplied far too much support to our Wars… and Afghanistan is not the clean game they try to make it seem…
Al Squirrelda terrorists attack the infrastructure.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071120/ap_on_fe_st/odd_squirrel_outages
LOL we’ll be getting the answers now! Nan wants HOmeland Security to investigate The SPill.
I caught her presser after the hearing. Oh boy. She has been stiff over the years (it is worse but nothing new) she has been tiresome and a few other things.
She is heavily into the role of Monarch. Pretty funny when you think of it.
“We” just turned Bilel Hussein over to our Iraqi puppets. Jesus Christ. That’s probably a death sentence.Too bad for him he’s just an AP photographer and not a Blackwater thug.
They added St Louis to Oxford MS, Nashville and Hampstead NY – Apparently NO was in the running and has been told, “not ready”. No kidding.
85 – I just opened a couple of reports on that…
Rand Corporation (an ex Vietnam counterinsurgency expert) is behind the Harman thought crimes bill.
Good thing the “netroots” is all over this.
39
madman
just reading the thread from the top (sigh I miss things as it goes by)… thanks for posting that! He has not been doing Food posts… and i have missed them.
IOZ is one of the few online I would wish to meet. And see his kitchen.
several good posts at WHo is IOZ… including the Thanksgiving dinner food post that Madman linked to up thread…
strikes in France spread (but little reported in the USA! USA!, that I have caught)
And last week the theme in the reports was that this would all weaken quite quickly and Sarko would rise as a Gallic (but not Gaullist) Batman AND Robin.
Or something.
Hair Club, no. 49,
On the 25th anniversary of JFK’s assassination, one of the NYC public television stations ran the tape of NBC’s coverage of that event. IIRC, they started at precisely the time it did on 11/22/63, and it went on all through the afternoon, evening, and night until 11 PM. It was fascinating to watch and see and hear, for example, how so many eyewitnesses were said to have heard shots from the by-then infamous grassy knoll, and so few from behind the Presidential limo, and how quickly details about Lee Harvey Oswald became available after his name was first mentioned. But for me, the most interesting thing was a commentary that Edwin Newman did shortly before the 11 PM signoff, a very harsh critique of US society that stated that we loved to make fun of the “banana republics” of Latin America, but as bad as those might be, the deposed leaders generally were not killed. He also made mention of the assaults on Adlai Stevenson when he’d been to Dallas a few weeks before the assassination, and assailed us for being such a violent society. As I listened to this, I was struck by the realization that this was still just 1963, and things were very shortly going to get a whole lot more violent and bloody.
Of course, he didn’t mention that the reason there were so many “banana republic” coups was that the US was behind most all of them, sometimes as the primary actor.
Reading that material about Sibel Edmonds is fascinating. Peter Dale Scott’s notions about “Deep Politics/Deep State” probably come closest to describing the real world of intelligence agencies, the military, big business, organized crime, etc., and what Ms. Edmonds is talking about w/r/t Turkey is just one branch of it.
and how quickly details about Lee Harvey Oswald became available after his name was first mentioned. —– JJB
to me, very evocative of the speed with which Osama and individuals were identified in relation to 9/11.
and how quickly details about Lee Harvey Oswald became available after his name was first mentioned.
Not that hard to figure out. Oswald lived in the Soviet Union and the FBI probably had a file on him.
Does it mean they were behind the assassination? Well, I wouldn’t put ANYTHING past a human being as evil as J Edgar but is there proof? Well, not really.
Same with MLK. Did the FBI conspire to kill King? Absolutely. He was the ONLY civil rights leader Hoover specifically told his agents not to inform of assassination plots. So clearly they were hoping it would happen.
Was James Earl Ray employed by Hoover? Could be. But once again, no proof.
Life’s pretty strange. It’s possible James Earl Ray came out of nowhere and the FBI agents surevilling kill were like “holy shit now we don’t have to take him out”.
That’s why we should read more novels. There are conspiracies. There’s also chance.
MCat,
What I find most interesting about OBL is that, although he’s been perfectly happy to claim responsibility for 9/11, BushCo. showed very little interest in getting him. I don’t think Tora Bora was miscalculation, I think it was deliberate. I don’t find it at all impossible to believe that story about OBL being debriefed by the CIA while staying incognito at a hosptial somewhere in the Gulf region. For all his ferocious anti-American sentiments, I’m sure there’s some project he and the CIA could collaborate on to their mutual advantage (like maybe OBL running intelligence cells throughout Central Asia and the Muslim areas of China). Or the family used its influence to save his life, maybe a combination of both. In a not dissimilar circumstance, the Mengele family always knew where Josef was, hell, he was able to get a West German passport using his real birth certificate in the mid-1950s and travel with it to West Germany to visit his relative, he just walked into the embassy in Buenos Aires. Blood is thicker than water. I think the B-Ls made the necessary phone calls to powerful friends, and managed to ensure he had a safe conduct out of Afghanistan.
Same with Malcolm X. Did the government kill him? Possibly. BUT most of this cointelpro stuff takes place in environments that are sectarian and violent anyway. It’s possible Malcolm was offed by his sectarian rivals.
That’s what made Iraq soooo easy for Negroponte. It’s a sectarian country with a history of dictatorship swimming in guns. It was a cakewalk for their black ops people. They could have used interns. Just show up with a few pallets of money and stir up some shit that’s already there.
They’re probably high fiving one another and celebrating about it still.
The problem with the standard issue “left’ view of Osama is that it underestimates how late Osama and the Saudis got into Afghanistan.
He didn’t even go into the country until 1984. He DID have one huge shootout with the Russians in 1987. The the Afghans kicked the Arabs out and got down to the serious business of civil war.
Osama could be a US government asset. But more likely he’s just a product of the violent extremist movement that the US government infiltrated (and I mean Al Qaeda not the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan) but didn’t necessarily control.
And of course I’m mainly going by Lawrence Wright and Robert Fisk. Neither of them is exactly a neocon but I’m also trusting them.
Was James Earl Ray employed by Hoover? Could be. But once again, no proof.
Life’s pretty strange. It’s possible James Earl Ray came out of nowhere and the FBI agents surevilling kill were like “holy shit now we don’t have to take him out”.
I found the “trial” the King family staged, the fact they maintained contact with JER for 30+ years very convincing. Also the book their atty wrote, Act of State. Harper Collins, no shock, wanted the two grafs on the second two man team in memphis that day exised, so he took the book to Verso, which published it intact.
and sure I also believe in chance. But we worked out assassination in this country, told what US citizens woke up to it, that it was reserved for ‘off shore’.
They just cannot get it, what we do offshore COMES HOME. One way or the other. Always has, always will.
95 JJB
yes I would agree with all of that. AND it serves long term US interests to have OBL “out there”. Just as the USSR falling was not the best deal for some factions in the US.
So trapped. Must have enemies forever. And we do have enough of them, but want more.
A lot of the conspiracy theories you’re willing to believe depends on what you want to believe.
Take Wellstone. A lot of liberals believe he was murdered because they believe he was a genuine threat to oppose the invasion of Iraq.
But he wasn’t. They had no need to kill him.
Same with Kennedy. Noam Chomsky wrote a book debunking the JFK conspiracy theories. He proves there was no conspiracy by proving Kennedy was a good imperliast and no threat to the military.
But does that mean some jealous mobster who’s girlfriend Kennedy Fucked didn’t find this angry little misfit name Lee Harvey Oswald and….
yes I would agree with all of that. AND it serves long term US interests to have OBL “out there”.
Now that one I buy. Of course they let him go.
Just as the USSR falling was not the best deal for some factions in the US.
Actually the USSR WAS a real threat. Bin Laden not so much. The reason they didn’t take out Saddam in 1991 WAS the fact that the USSR was still a possible threat. Boris the Boozehound freed up their hands considerably.
Now Putin on the other hand. I’m betting if Boris the Boozehand were in power we’d already be in Iran.
I find Chomsky and Cockburn both tedious, they both strike me as in a panic about LEFT WING CT.
Bullshit. CT is all over the horizon, the most frantic the most paranoid to me (for decades) are RW conspiracists.. and wealthy RW conspiracists are just manic, out beyond Pluto, as I call it. Fucking LUNATICS.
Frankly I rarely discuss “CT”, of any kind. You end up having to define what it is, over and over. ad flaccid nauseum.
I’d rather just think about it than have to qualify, trim and hem and define endlessly.
I find Chomsky and Cockburn both tedious, they both strike me as in a panic about LEFT WING CT.
Chomsky only wrote one book about Kennedy and to be fair, he doesn’t even like to talk about 9/11 conspiracies.
He doesn’t go out of his way to debunk them, just gives his opinion when cornered.
the most frantic the most paranoid to me (for decades) are RW conspiracists..
Alex Jones, for example, who probably thinks that there’s a government conspiracy behind not getting the good seat at Starbucks.
On the other hand Alex Jones is a highly entertaining fiction writer whose fiction contains a good deal of “truth”.
But I guess where I differe with Markos is that “while extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” the idea that the US government would do evil isn’t a particularly extraordinary claim. In fact, evil is the standard operating procedure for the US government.
But you still need GOOD evidence. While I don’t find it hard to believe that a drug addict would shoot his mother for her social security money, I don’t want him going to jail without a trial.
BUT I still want to see the trial, not stop the trial for any kind of political expediancy yada yada.
Fun facts about ND. If you are female student, get pregnant & are not married, you get kicked out. Still.
Students aren’t allowed in dormitory wings housing the opposite sex beyond a certain hour.
The deans have the resident advisor priests spy on the students living in their dorms.
I must confess though, having grown up with 7th row season tickets to ND basketball games, I still follow the team religiously, even if I have to go to radio stations like this to get the live audio stream of the game…
The deans have the resident advisor priests spy on the students living in their dorms. — lucid
for some reaosn that reminds me of a mini scandale we have going out htere… some suburban Catholic church has had a new parish priest sent out, the old one is retiring. Come to light, he has some “incidents” in his past, from 30 years ago.
parents are up in arms, outraged, church and current parish priest are shrugging shoulders. The parish priest was on film saying:
what are we do with things he was charged with 30 years ago? Supposed I start telling some of what the parishioners have confessed? Think they would like that?
Gotta luv the Catholics. Shits all around. COming and going. LOL some paretns have wept and whined and “left the church”.
Have to laugh, why are they surprised?
Noam Chomsky wrote a book debunking the JFK conspiracy theories. He proves there was no conspiracy by proving Kennedy was a good imperliast and no threat to the military.
JFK was most certainly not a good enough imperialist for the American right wing in the early 1960s, as anyone who ever read the contemporary Hearst papers such as The New York Journal-American knows. He backed away from war over both Berlin and Cuba, and negotiated a settlement in Laos that calmed down war fever over that useless piece of real estate (it’s now forgotten, but we almost sent US combat troops and conduted heavy air bombardment to a part of Indochina other than Vietnam a couple of years before the Gulf of Tonkin incident). Moreover, he left Castro in power, which infuriated both organized crime and the CIA, as the latter had used the place as an offshore bank and a staging area for other Latin American operations with the considerable help of the former.
I’ve never been a fan of Chomsky’s, I find him not only tedious but simpleminded. Cockburn, for all his virtues as a muckraker and satirist, was an apologist for the Soviet Union right up until its demise. Had we decided to take down Saddam in 1991, the USSR would have been powerless to stop us. They had to let their eastern and central European empire go, they couldn’t even hold their own country together.
As to the assinations of the 1960s, I’ll just say this. If RFK had lost the California primary, he’d have had no chance at the Presidency, and he might still be alive today. OTOH, had he gone out the front of the hotel as I believe had originally been planned (I remember reading contemporary news reports that they went out through the kitchen because the crowd in front of the podium was too big), someone else who was lying in wait there would be sitting in Sirhan’s prison cell as his assassin.
JFK was most certainly not a good enough imperialist for the American right wing in the early 1960s
They were blackmailing him 20 ways to heaven anyway. RFK never dismissed Hoover because Hoover had, um, pictures.
So why shoot him. Why not give him a fait accompli then smear him?
And why kill Kennedy and take your chances on LBJ when Johnson was FAR to the left of Kennedy?
Cockburn, for all his virtues as a muckraker and satirist, was an apologist for the Soviet Union right up until its demise.
He was right. The typical Russian has it worse off now and the world world would be better off if the US ruling class were facing Mao and the USSR, not a few motley religious fanatics.
I think o ne of the hard truths about The ETernal Govenment, as I call it, is extreme internal factionalism and infighting. To the extent that elements were nto controllable.
Dallas was rife with threats against Kennedy…. From what I understand it was discussed in the WH to cancel the trip and iirc Jackie wanted it cancelled. They went.
I saw Dealy Plaza in ’81, little had changed. It looked a perfect set up for a turkey shoot.
And Connolly refused that the bullet be removed post mortem, a good way to stanunch or confirm the endless rumors.
imho this is true even today, it still looks as it did in the films i’ve seen, apart from the size of the trees.
bay it was eerie.
The Book Depository (wiht the early version of the musuem installed, using big almsot 19th c style free standing glass display cases) the flow of the road, the grassy knoll, the railroad tracks.
i was utterly transfixed. Time had not moved.
MCat, no. 110,
I don’t know why I’m still amazed at the deference people give to institutions like the RC Church, or indeed any other organized religious sect. By this time, it should be obvious that, for example, Billy Graham is the worst sort of narrow-minded, provincial anti-Semite and right-wing rabble rouser, yet he’s still treated respectfully by the MSM. It’s like that with the Army too, no matter how badly it disgraced itself in Vietnam, the public still insists on believing it’s an honorable institution that produces persons of character. One wonders how many Al Haigs, Colin Powells, William Westmorelands, and David Petraeuses(sp?) we’ll have to endure before that notion is finally disspelled. The Army remained a respected institution in France even after the Dreyfuss Affair showed how rotten the men at its core were, even the disaster of the First World War and the still secret summary executions of 1917 didn’t ruin it completely. I suppose defeat and collaboration in the 1940s, followed by the war in Algeria finally did the trick, but it took a long time. Ironic that the attempt by various generals to overthrow deGaulle (of all people!) and the infant Fifth Republic should have done the trick.
BTW, France’s civil servants have joined the strike. The first paragraph in this passage should provide some good laughs once you read through the rest:
So more and more workers from all different phases of industry and the civil service are joining the strike, thousands are taking to the streets to protest, Sarkozy has been forced to abandon his strategy of trying to kill the strikes with silence and spew rather desperate sounding rhetoric as ”[w]e will not surrender and we will not retreat,” ”[y]ou have to know how to stop a strike,” ”[y]ou have to think of all of those who have to go to work,” and declaring that the walkout must end or it will bring ”the economy to its knees,” but the protest movement looks to be issuing a “last gasp.” Oh, here’s the story’s last para:
Three writers are said to have contributed to this very confused piece, but then things may be happening too fast for the MSM to keep up, especially in France where everything from travel to communications is being adversely affected.
In 1968, the students started things, the workers joined in, and there was very nearly a revolution. Now the order may be reversed, we’ll see what results.
Hair Club, no. 112,
So why shoot him[?]
Have you ever known right-wing nuts to behave sensibly? They don’t now, they didn’t then. Militarists were convinced he was an appeaser like his father, and his avoidance of war with the USSR was considered by many to be a willingness to back down and allow the Soviets to dominate the world scene. His timid backing of the civil rights movement was also too much for many a right-winger. This was an era, don’t forget, when such allegedly “respectable” journals of opinion as The National Review were writing that “The South Must Prevail” because:
His tomcatting probably proved to be the last straw. Google up the name “Ellen Rometsch.” She was believe, rightly or wrongly, to be a Communist spy, and Kennedy was having an affair with her.
As to Lyndon Johnson being “far to the left” of JFK, I don’t know what universe that would be in. Johnson himself stated that his Great Society initiatives were essentially pushing through legislation that Kennedy hadn’t been able to. And he was only too happy to do what Kennedy had, up his death anyway, refused to do, use US combat troops in Southeast Asia.
As to the USSR, it was one of the worst societies ever to exist, and no one arguing otherwise deserves to be taken seriously. Even Cockburn seems to have come around to that opinion, he recently published a piece in Counterpunch favorably discussing a book on the horrors of the Stalin-era Soviet Union.
hmm I was spared the parochial school “experience”… but by now, parents who turn their children over to the parish schools are basically volunteering them for [potential] ritual sexual sacrifice, imo.
During the extended laying out of JPII, in cosy conversation with a couple of US bishops, on a rooftop, cannot remember if it ABC or CNN, they unabashedly said “stories” of priests abusing children “were lies, told to discredit the church”. And they knew this as the Communists had done this as well.
Good luck little parents, clutching the rosary beads. And the hymnal.
speaking of defending the USSR… there used to be (and may still be, the few left were grandfathered into the building codes and zones) a little shack, that could be seen from the circuitous route up to Coit Tower… when ever we passed it my father used to begin to almost giggle.
A couple, who were very pro “Red Russia” lived there. And took off in the late 30s to live in Russia. WElllllllll… couple of years later, they very quietly came back… and no more conversation about communism and the USSR/Mother Russia. Very very quiet…
LOL. So classic.
oh too funny. Koswhack1 will now also write for The Hill…. the joint where Josh Marshall the Zionist and Dick Morris hte no principles hack of all time turn in their sheaves of brilliance (among others, I forget whoo all writes for that paper).
… and who were those people predicting his imminent demise? After his stellar greatness of 2005 – 06.
Geesh get a grip.
i see the gang still rolls along here
i’ve had three meme-acidal junctureboxes
implanted in my head quarters
i feel like bagdad
‘cept
now i’m cure of any stray thoughts
about a better place
focus i can
on industrial death by installments
featuring our stretch pat special opportunity
the double zero
wall street to peking
my casa is their casa
balance of payments plan
As to the USSR, it was one of the worst societies ever to exist, and no one arguing otherwise deserves to be taken seriously. Even Cockburn seems to have come around to that opinion, he recently published a piece in Counterpunch favorably discussing a book on the horrors of the Stalin-era Soviet Union.
Really? The society that beat Hitler, the people who put their bodies on the line to beat fascism is one of the “worst societies ever to exist?”
I guess you’re just going to have to not take me seriously but, if you’re going to hold up (I don’t know Sweden) as an example of a society you’d want to emulate, I’ll have to return the favor of not taking you seriously either.
Now Cockburn (and whether it’s the good anti-communist Cockburn or the bad Stalinist Cockburn) notwithstanding, you have to remember that in 1917, Russia had already been battered by three straight years of war, even after being one of the most underdeveloped countries in Europe. Immediately after going Communist and pulling out of the war it was attacked and blockcaded by all the western powers using the mother of all contra movements (the royalist Russians) and spent close to a decade in a civil war. No sooner was that civil war over then they were invaded by the Nazis, which (unlike the cowardly Swedish “socialists” who sat out the war while their fellow workers were being slaughtered all over Europe) they still beat.
Now, I’m not arguing the USSR was perfect but if you check out life expectancy rates, you’ll find them longer in 1964 than now, astonishing. And that was 1964, when the USSR was still serving as the counterweight to the USA in Africa (something that pushed Kennedy into supporting civil rights).
The fall of the USSR and the neoliberal takeover of the second most powerful country in the world has been a massive tradgedy we’re still dealing with.
And I’d like to see that Cockburn article where he admits the cold war liberals were right if you don’t mind 🙂
As to Lyndon Johnson being “far to the left” of JFK, I don’t know what universe that would be in. Johnson himself stated that his Great Society initiatives were essentially pushing through legislation that Kennedy hadn’t been able to. And he was only too happy to do what Kennedy had, up his death anyway, refused to do, use US combat troops in Southeast Asia.
But I can’t see right wingers just having Kennedy killed and trusting the (very liberal) and massively egotistical LBJ to do what they wanted.
Unless they had a deal with him, which I’m not quite willing to buy.
And took off in the late 30s to live in Russia. WElllllllll… couple of years later, they very quietly came back…
Story sounds common but the dates sound wrong. I don’t think they could have gotten out of Russia a couple of years after the late 30s, considering that they would have had to cross the Russian and Nazi tank lines.
But on the whole I’m with Warren Beatty on the issue.
earlier then. Works for me.
So you’re saying some rich Americans went to Russia hoping to find a pre-fab socialist utopia and then saw that life would be tough and came back to San Francisco?
Wouldn’t this be a bit like my going to Nepal to fight with the Maoists then coming back and complaining that there was no Starbucks?
Maybe. Maybe not. There aren’t enough details to make a judgement. But I do know that Paul Robeson went to the Soviet Union many times and continued to defend it. I guess he can be excused of overlooking its shortcomings in civil liberties considering that he would have been living under Jim Crow in the USA USA, and that the American government took his passport, subjected him to 24/7 surveillance and that people who went to his concerts were routinely terrorized by right wing goons.
And note I’m quite sure I’m one of the only people who would defend Ron Paul and the Soviet Union.
Maybe my Communist self has an evil libertarian twin.
you are reading way too much into this.
And who said they were rich?
Ignorance of SF in the between the wars if I may say so and ignorance of who lived in the old shacks.
Give it a break. Unless you want to say no one went to Russia and found quite the opposite of dreams.
Look, I also champion Harry Hay, of the Mattachine Society, who was loyal to the CPUSA for decades. The idealogy offered equality of races and sexual orientation. He embraced it.
Oh I am sure Robeson was championed inside Russia. Let’s get real.
Wouldn’t this be a bit like my going to Nepal to fight with the Maoists then coming back and complaining that there was no Starbucks
Come on. You are making me laugh.
Maybe my Communist self has an evil libertarian twin.
Oh don’t tell me you are trying to be a communist?
And who said they were rich?
As I said, I don’t have enough information. But I’d guess that even in the 1930s during the height of the Depression, the poverty in Russia would have shocked some American expats.
The idea that they would have gone to Russia and came back because of the lack of civil liberties doesn’t ring true to me. Even now in Patriot Act America, I rarely notice the way my freedom’s been stripped from me and I suspect that in the USSR Americans might not have had it as bad as most Russians.
It’s a lot like an American soldier going to Iraq and being disillusioned because he discovers we’re not fighting for democracy after all. To me, if he had the choice to come back, it would be more about the immediate horror of the war.
And there’s also the fact that a lot of misfits went to Russia who probably didn’t fit in here (Lee Harvey Oswald being a good example) and expected to find paradise instead of a third world country with nukes.
But be that as it may, I still think that the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989 and the tranformation of China into a global sweatshop is a horror and a historical event that most people in the USA don’t even consider. It’s the key even of our time. It’s what made the USA and the American ruling class into an unchallenged monster.
We think far more about a few religious fanatics in Muslim countries (who are at best just a slightly more suicidal version of the Weathermen).
The idea that they would have gone to Russia and came back because of the lack of civil liberties doesn’t ring true to me.
I did not say that either. There was much to horrify westerners, sheer fucking hard life for one.
…
I agree with you on China. But not to worry, seems clear to me America plans for war with China… I just hope to die first, to be honest.
And India is slap happy with 300 million middle and rising to middle class. They don’t care any more about rampant poverty than do the other “great nations”.
Robeson’s son is one of the few blacks I can stand to listen to… and I am sure he suffers deprivation of opportunity for his books and whatever else. Still the taint.
I agree with you on China. But not to worry, seems clear to me America plans for war with China…
I think it’s more than just that though. Russia, China and the EU are all still powerful countries and the USA USA is getting weaker.
It’s about the sheet impact of the fall of Communism (whether or not you think Communism is good or bad), the fall of a secular, universal idealogy as a counterweight to American capitalism.
The lack of any balance turned the USA into a monster and the American ruling class into people who think they can play God.
This isn’t to say the whole process wasn’t helped along, in fact that’s the point. When the USA through Suharto killed 500,000 Indonesia Communists in 1965, what did that leave? It left Islam as the only alternative.
Social Democracy and Liberalism by their very essence can’t counter the USA USA because they only work in rich countries and with the middle class. It’s a bit like trying to argue that you can counter Wahhabism with Unitarian Universalism. What hope does that give to someone in the third world dying in a shack?
Seriously, if Che had managed to get his 4 or 5 Vietnams going in the late 60s and the USA had been brought down, the world would be a pretty good place right now.
whoever rules the world will be a horror.
Yes I know the US is weakening. One wonders how many of the 1000 bases Chalmers Johnson thinks we have, rather than 750 or so, are just shells.
whoever rules the world will be a horror.
It won’t be Americans certainly but it will be a transnational corporate elite, exactly what Marx predicted actually.
But I think Marx was too much a figure of the Englightenment to anticipate how good brainwashing would get.
I think that Madeline Albright’s comment really sums up the attitude of the transnational corporate elite. 500,000 dead children was “worth it”.
That’s not just arrogant. It’s satanic. That’s what I mean by Alex Jones as being a fiction writer that gives us a lot of truth wrapped up in the fiction.
The specifics of his paranoid nightmares might not be true (that the corporate elite is going to reduce the population so they can use stem cell research to live forever) but the general sense of it is true.
Any elite that can give us Madeline Albright (not even that far to the right), someone who could dismiss the deaths of half a million children like that as “worth it” can do anything.
I just see the same thing happening to my own children and grandchildren, if I ever have them. Unless they get into the elite, I’ll be long dead and they’ll be hunted for meat like in the Planet of the Apes.
new thread…
LINK
Hair Club # 108 But I guess where I differe with Markos is that “while extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”…
That whole DK frame is ludicrous re 9/11 or any other major crimes investigation…Especially In the territory of transnational orgs and Nation State ops its even moreso…
The “inside job” angle to me is no less “extraordinary” a route to pursue than “the husband did it for the insurance money”…..
The idea that Israel had Intel that was ignored or even had a self serving provacative/ facilitative role is a variant: The Fiance did it for the Insurance money.
The Average American has not grok’d even a tabloid understanding of the background of our involvement in the ME, Afghanistan ……Sad, really, given that a mind for soap operas and reality TV is a terrible thing to waste….
What gets me about the al Qaeda “verdict” is the witholding of evidence that paints quite a bit more complex and unseemly picture : Disavowed Stepchild formerly on payroll to Western Crime Family slaughters innocent bystanders on foster parent’s property….
it already is a transnational corporate elite. IMO… but you know, be sure and vote for Senator McDreamy, It So Matters!
Senator Steve McQaeda ! The Studio Cheifs can haggle over merchandising!
Hairclub,
And I’d like to see that Cockburn article where he admits the cold war liberals were right if you don’t mind.
I never said there was any such article, just one where he forthrightly discussed the nightmare that was Stalinist Russia. It appeared in the last couple of weeks, did around for it yourself. BTW, Stalin was delightedly selling Hitler the petrol he needed to send the Luftwaffe to bomb London in 1940, so don’t give me any of that rubbish. If Hitler hadn’t attacked him, he’d have delightedly sat back and watched the Germans overrun as much of the world as they could.