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hmmm … ??? 20 November 2007

Posted by marisacat in Europe, Germany, Sex / Reproductive Health.


Well come what may, I am not giving up Ratz-zinger and his nose pendulum… 😉  not for a spray on, one size fits all.  Or sized to fit all… what ever the gimmick.

He has filed for a patent for the latex spraying system he invented. “As far as I know our idea is unique,” said Krause.

He admits he will have to overcome some legal hurdles and technical niggles before he can bring the product to market, but he already has a working prototype and says the system can cater for most sizes.

“With our technology we could spray a condom on an erect elephant,” he declared, not without a hint of pride.

The system works a bit like a car wash. The man put his penis in a chamber and presses a button to start the jets of liquid latex, sucked from a detachable cartridge. The rubber dries in seconds and is later rolled off and discarded like a conventional condom.

Yes, just one more excuse to put Ratzy up there…

And yes too, just a port in the storm thread… for whomever wants one. 




1. BooHooHooMan - 20 November 2007


? They offer it in a trial size….?

2. BooHooHooMan - 20 November 2007

And secondly, can you then fiberglass Little Mr Earnest ?

3. marisacat - 20 November 2007

hmm trial spray, I guess. At first when I read it, I thought it came in an aersol can, but no…………….. nothing so simple.

4. marisacat - 20 November 2007


oh that made me laugh…

5. Hair Club for Men - 20 November 2007

Oh when are nice “decent” conservatives like Rudy Giuliani going to condemn evil Ron Paul and Alex Jones.


And when are the other Republicans going to stand up and call out Paul for accepting and not denouncing the open advocacy of his campaign by conspiracy theorists and Neo-Nazis? Are the Republicans so devoid of decency that they will not object to sharing a stage with someone who accepts the support of Neo-Nazis and people who push conspiracy theories about 9-11?

As to this:

Of course the Republicans won’t denounce one of their own for accepting support from extremists. Apparently the rest of the Republican Presidential candidates are afraid of antagonizing those parts of their base that support Ron Paul, and apparently the Republican base now includes conspiracy theorists and Neo-Nazis.

It’s getting hard not to root for the Republicans against this kind of “liberal”.

6. Hair Club for Men - 20 November 2007

Why is Chris Matthews trying to revive Fitzmass?

7. BooHooHooMan - 20 November 2007

This thread reminded me of the wonderful work
Edwards did on behalf of men when he sued

The AtHome Chrome Plating Condom Company…

8. marisacat - 20 November 2007

or when he faked out a jury that he was channeling a fetus in utero?

Quite the special guy…

9. StupidAsshole - 20 November 2007

Strange anti-Ron Paul diary from DickHead in Michigan, that makes bizarre guilt-by-association smears both against Paul and pollster John Zogby: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/20/172235/81

He’s really getting his ass handed to him in the comments.

I still don’t see why Daily Kos’s Democratic Party operatives are so scared of Paul’s candidacy. Somebody (I think it was on this blog) suggested a while back that it’s not so much that they’re afraid that he’s actually going to win, but that his candidacy illustrates the increasing irrelevancy of the liberal blogosphere–one of the most significant symptoms thereof being that Paul’s online supporters raised more in one day than the liberal blogosphere has raised in its entire history.

10. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2007

91. marisacat – 20 November 2007 – strikes in France spread (but little reported in the USA! USA!, that I have caught)

All I keep hearing on the news, MSM, NPR etc, is that polls/”average French citizens” are “fed up” with the strikers.

11. marisacat - 20 November 2007

LOL DHinMI has to beat back the hordes who oppose the war, be it in support of Kuc or in support of RP or whomever. Or, earlier in support of Dean.

he is a faithful Dem party, Catholic shit division, dog at the front gates.

12. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2007

AND it serves long term US interests to have OBL “out there”.

Big Bro needs Goldstein.

13. marisacat - 20 November 2007

Clinton’s new line:

With all respect, living in a foreign country from age 6 to 10 is not Foreign POlicy experience.

Then NBC Evening News cut to a clip of Vilsack (who so knows FP, right?) claiming she ws the “face of FP in the Clinton administration”.

Oh whatever else may come, the Republicans are licking their chops over that one. And all versions of it.

14. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2007

By the Allfather, you people are hard to catch up on (sorry, saw Beowulf over the weekend)!

But you still need GOOD evidence. While I don’t find it hard to believe that a drug addict would shoot his mother for her social security money, I don’t want him going to jail without a trial.

I’m a believer in the idea that the public conversation should be a crucible, and that EVERYTHING should be subjected to heat and tong. So much truth exists even in the outlandish, and solutions are missed because questions aren’t considered. Hell, there is more truth in a Philip K. Dick book than the NY Times manages in most MONTHS.

Our Republic died because debate was so narrowed as to become not equal to the word “debate”, but rather agreed upon dialogue between actors not really invested in their roles.

15. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2007

115. marisacat – 20 November 2007

I think o ne of the hard truths about The ETernal Govenment, as I call it, is extreme internal factionalism and infighting. To the extent that elements were nto controllable.

It’s all a big catfight between competing Royal Houses. Makes the British Royals back in the day look civilized, and slights are continued and fought over for decades.

A big part of the problem for right-wing money with JFK is the same problem right-wing money had with Bubba: he was from the “right” people and he hadn’t paid his dues. He’d jumped the line, not paid proper fealty. You know, like Obama has to the Daley machine.

I frankly don’t know whether elements of our gov’t/CIA/Mob etc killed him, and frankly I don’t care. Hell, his death seemed to have opened RFK’s eyes, and I find his murder to be far more troubling, far more tragic and far more likely to have been an inside job.

None of it matters, though. The Republic, feeble creature that it was, is dead, and buried, and unlikely to come back.

16. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2007

Have you ever known right-wing nuts to behave sensibly?

This country went insane after WW2 re: the Commies, and it’s warped us ever since. Hell, Bircher conspiracy theories now drive public policy. We went nuts, driven insane by fear of commies and fear of melanin-rich skin.

17. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2007
18. marisacat - 20 November 2007

oh i heard Murtha and Obey … LOL. It was a scream!

Murtha was practically squeaking: Why would you believe the Pentagon?

I dunno, why did you all?


19. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2007

LA Free Press interviews Dennis the K:

LA FREE PRESS: Your impeachment of Cheney has expanded to impeachment of Bush and Cheney. How do you see that playing out? Do you think there will be hearings or actual charges?

KUCINICH: I think there will be hearings because the American people are demanding them. The idea of Democratic leaders saying that impeachment is off the table is not where the American people are. The House of Representatives is the people‘s house, it does not belong to the Congress. Congress must assert itself as a political branch of government. To say that impeachment is off the table when there are manifest crimes that have been committed is to nullify a section of the Constitution and to obliterate the one mechanism which exists in the Constitution to correct abuses of power by the Executive.
This is a very serious matter and a profound principle of constitutional government checks and balances. The minute that Congress says under no circumstances will there be an impeachment, you not only forgo accountability in the part of the Executive but you license further abuses. It is a very dangerous thing for our leadership to have said that.
You know I am a Democrat, but my love for my country is above my love for my party, so my country is in trouble right now and I brought those articles forward in response to a deep and heartfelt concern about the direction America is going, particularly in respect to an impending attack against Iran.

LA FREE PRESS: Do you believe there will be a war crimes trial?

KUCINICH: Let’s take it a step at a time in terms of the various remedies. One is impeachment. There can be no greater punishment if you happen to be a high elected official, president or vice-president. You’re removed from office. That may settle it. On the other hand if the president or vice-president, for whatever reason, will not be removed from office, I believe they should be subject to criminal prosecution. If we can’t get criminal prosecution in this country, there are international laws that they violated. But there is a basis for prosecution under the laws of the United States. The only problem is I don’t want to go there until I can see how the impeachment process is going to play itself out. We have to use the remedies that are available until we exhaust them.

LA FREE PRESS: How do you feel about the statement “The U.S. does not torture?”

KUCINICH: Well, its an obvious lie – like the U.S. does not wage aggressive war, and the U.S. does not exploit the natural resources of other countries, and the history of the U.S. is a story of a righteous nation that wars with the forces of evil. There are a lot of mythologies that percolate kind of like methane bubbles up from certain landfills. Any critical thinking applied to the issue of torture easily discards the notion that our government has not been involved in torture. Of course it has. I don’t know if the President saw the pictures from Abu Ghraib, I don’t know if the President saw the pictures out of Guantanamo, but government people acting upon the orders of government officials have in fact tortured, period.

20. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2007

LOL … Murtha believes the CHECKS.

Oh, really fuck him and Obey. If they were serious, they’d vote for impeachment.

Just to throw some chum to the crowd: Noam Chomsky on U.S. policy towards Iran

21. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2007
22. Madman in the Marketplace - 20 November 2007

Why I hate Xtianity, part umpteen million and fifty three.

23. wu ming - 20 November 2007

too much binary thinking going on here. one can kick the corporate pirates that have plundered russia like vultures picking a carcass and still bear witness to the fact that communism as practiced in the soviet union crushed a fuckton of lives for no damn good reason, workers doubly so. ask the russians, they kick ’em all. has nothing to do with communism or the left, it has to do with the internal logic of a state that does not have a healthy respect for (or fear of) its citizens.

as for gunning down both JFK and RFK, it seems simple enough to me. what better way to keep the hawks in line than gunning one or two down for insufficient batshitcraziness?

anyone who thinks that the deep government isn’t above popping a cap in a couple of its own to further the discussion in the right direction hasn’t studied enough of the way this country (or any other for that matter) has acted abroad. same MO.

it isn’t CT, it’s just what people with power do, whatever their stated legitimizing lip service ideology.

i’m personally pissed off that my potatoes are taking so damn long to sprout. cheney’s gonna have to wait until spring to hit iran, until my taters are producing.

24. Hair Club for Men - 20 November 2007

Have you ever known right-wing nuts to behave sensibly?


Unlike our current crop of Democrats he knew when American troops were useless sitting in an Arab country waiting to be shot at, so he pulled the Marines out of Lebanon after the Hezbollah car bombing.

Bob Barr.

He opposed the Patriot Act.

Walter “Freedom Fries” Jones.

He came out forthrightly against the occupation of Iraq when he realized it was useless.

25. Hair Club for Men - 20 November 2007

I still don’t see why Daily Kos’s Democratic Party operatives are so scared of Paul’s candidacy.

Especially since a Paul third party run almost guarantees a Democratic victory.

On the other hand, his cross left/right appeal indicates that the left/right paradigm is breaking up and the two pary system is heavily dependent on conservatives believing liberals are pure evil and liberals believing the reverse about conservatives.

26. wu ming - 20 November 2007

my guess is that 3rd party paul ends up hurting dems most. i’ll explain later, gotta go right now.

27. moiv - 20 November 2007

ToqueDeville is a bad boy. 😉

Miss Laura says so, so it must be true.

And DHinMI does not — NOT, I say — worship Satan.

28. marisacat - 20 November 2007

hmm is the SatanicDHinMI site for real? Lots of veneration there to Anton Lavey.

29. moiv - 20 November 2007

Hard to tell. Some are accusing TDV of putting it up himself.

30. Hair Club for Men - 20 November 2007

my guess is that 3rd party paul ends up hurting dems most. i’ll explain later, gotta go right now.

It’s probaby even simpler than that.

This early presidential race is a sham. Ron Paul fandom is just a way of giving it the finger.

Pro or Semi Pro donk or Republican functionaries see a right wing lunatic attracting more attention than their candidates because, while Paul is a right wing lunatic, at least his lunacy is coherent and expressed in plain English, unlike the other candidates who just mutter gibberish and hope noone notices.

In any event, people want impeachment and an end to the war. The Dems started the race early to say “impeachment’s off the table”. Any candidate who allows them to express some kind of disatisfaction will ge some attention.

31. Hair Club for Men - 20 November 2007

And DHinMI does not — NOT, I say — worship Satan.

I find Satan worship and militant atheism as dull as Christianity and Judaism.

I barely think of religion one way or the other, EXCEPT when the opportunity to be obnoxious just makes it too easy.


32. marisacat - 20 November 2007

imo 3rd party RP run is just a retread of ’92 for the Clintons.

I think they want to avoid that. My guess, just a guess, is that their plan is that with higher percentages of women, POC, others they achieve a mandate, the sort that the DP hardly ever manages.

But, in reality, whatever….

Distribute weapons, etc.

33. Hair Club for Men - 20 November 2007

Last thing I heard Obama passed Hillary in Iowa.

I wonder if Hillary has pictures of Obama flirting with white women….

34. marisacat - 20 November 2007

ABC/Washpoo poll indicates that. All the news led with it this am.

Obama at 30… think Hillary was 26. Edwards either 3 or 4 pts behind that.

Think it also claimed he was picking up support with women in Iowa.

Not sure polls matter in Iowa in the crunch, but they work for media.

35. Hair Club for Men - 20 November 2007

The problem is that it’s Iowa. Hillary’s probably been training her legions of hicks for the past 10 years. She probably has negative campaign ads ready to go. Tom Harkin’s on her side.

Obama could turn into the Howard Dean of 2008…

36. marisacat - 20 November 2007

LOL Janet Hook did a real soft soap piece for Obama int he LAT today… made me laugh.

Think Iowa is going to be bitter for Edwards, unless of course Kuc does some deal with him (have no idea what his numbers are, think Richardson only registered with double digits in the poll)… and others too. But I don’t see that this time. Maybe kuc and whomever do a deal with Obama.

But I would think the Clintons ram it thru for her.

Just a wild guess…

37. Hair Club for Men - 20 November 2007

Edwards lost his chance to be President when Cheney kicked his ass in the VP debate. It was all down hill from there.

Edwards did, however, tell us all how great it was that Cheney’s daugher was a lesbian.

ALSO, Edwards was mean to Amanda Marcotte. I can’t forgive that.

Obama stuck up for Donny McLurkin. But Edwards dropped Amanda as soon as the going got rough. So even though he picked a homophobic fucktard to sing in his choir, Obama has the saving grave that he occasionally gets pissed enough at the bullshit not to back down to it.

38. marisacat - 20 November 2007

LOL as if it mattered.

39. marisacat - 20 November 2007


So, it surprised me that Clinton was the one creating a “hip” video about caucusing. Then I saw this in the Washington Post’s write-up of its latest poll:

Overall, the poll points to some strategic gains for Obama. His support is up eight percentage points since July among voters 45 and older — who accounted for two-thirds of Iowa caucus-goers in 2004. He also runs evenly with Clinton among women in Iowa, drawing 32 percent to her 31 percent, despite the fact that her campaign has built its effort around attracting female voters.

And despite widespread impressions that Obama is banking on unreliable first-time voters, Clinton depends on them heavily as well: About half of her supporters said they have never attended a caucus. Forty-three percent of Obama’s backers and 24 percent of Edwards’s would be first-time caucus-goers. Previous attendance is one of the strongest indicators of who will vote.

and more fwiw: Oprah will be touring iwth Obama… heard it on the evening local news.

I say they should take McClurkin along too. Round this out.

Wonder who Hillary will pop up with………..

40. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007
41. JJB - 21 November 2007

Hair Club,


Unlike our current crop of Democrats he knew when American troops were useless sitting in an Arab country waiting to be shot at, so he pulled the Marines out of Lebanon after the Hezbollah car bombing.

What were they doing there in the first place, and why did they take sides in the Lebanese Civil War? I might add the proxy wars he fought in Latin America and Africa killed hundreds of thousands of people. BTW, the Marines didn’t leave Beirut for a number of months after the bombing, and the withdrawal was mostly Cap Weinberger’s doing. The Reagan administration also sent Donald Rumsfeld to make nice with Saddam, enabled his war against Iran by making it possible for him to acquire the means to manufacture chemical weapons, and then did a volte face and started sucking up to the Iranians. Not much sensible behavior on display.

Bob Barr.

He opposed the Patriot Act.

One sensible act in a life devoted to behaving as if he had hydrophobia, or was in the final stages of syphillis. If you were to listen to a year’s worth of Charles Manson’s lunatic rants I’m sure you’d hear at least one sensible, intelligent thought expressed.

Walter “Freedom Fries” Jones.

He came out forthrightly against the occupation of Iraq when he realized it was useless.

So he had Buyer’s Remorse when he realized the horror he’d helped start. It doesn’t negate his prior lunatic behavior. He’s an inconsequential figure anyway.

The MSM continues to behave as if nothing much of interest is going on in France. This is the only story the NY Times is running. It largely regurgitates Sarkozy’s day old spews, and tries mightily to insist that the protest is winding down rather than spreading. As to the notion that the average French citizen is tired of the strike it should be added that this is a work stoppage/protest being undertaken by average French citizens, and more and more of them seem to be joining it every day.

42. JJB - 21 November 2007

An argument being made by a number of people, such as Who Is IOZ, and also our own MCat is that the Dems are doing nothing about BushCo.’s trashing of Constitutional rights, habeas corpus, etc., is that they themselves want these extraordinary powers to be intact if and when they take power in January 2009. Those who believe this (and I happen to be among them) will find this article by Henry Porter to be of interest:

Welcome to Fortress Britain, a fortress that will keep people in as well as out. Welcome to a state that requires you to answer 53 questions before you’re allowed to take a day trip to Calais. Welcome to a country where you will be stopped, scanned and searched at any of 250 railways stations, filmed at every turn, barked at by a police force whose behaviour has given rise to a doubling in complaints concerning abuse and assaults.

Three years ago, this would have seemed hysterical and Home Office ministers would have been writing letters of complaint. But it is a measure of how fast and how far things have gone that it does nothing more than describe the facts as announced last week.

We now accept with apparent equanimity that the state has the right to demand to know, among other things, how your ticket has been paid for, the billing address of any card used, your travel itinerary and route, your email address, details of whether your travel arrangements are flexible, the history of changes to your travel plans plus any biographical information the state deems to be of interest or anything the ticket agent considers to be of interest.

There is no end to Whitehall’s information binge. The krill of personal data is being scooped up in ever-increasing quantities by a state that harbours a truly bewildering fear of the free, private and self-determined individual, who may want to take himself off to Paris without someone at home knowing his movements or his credit card number.

Combined with the ID card information, which comes on stream in a few years’ time, the new travel data means there will be very little the state won’t be able to find out about you. The information will be sifted for patterns of travel and expenditure. Conclusions will be drawn from missed planes, visits extended, illness and all the accidents of life, and because this is a government database, there will be huge numbers of mistakes that will lead to suspicion and action being taken against innocent people.

Those failing to provide satisfactory answers will not be allowed to travel and then it will come to us with a leaden regret that we have in practice entered the era of the exit visa, a time when we must ask permission from a security bureaucrat who insists on further and better particulars in the biographical section of the form. Ten, 15 or more years on, we will be resigned to the idea that the state decides whether we travel or not.

Is it simply that the fear of terrorism has stunned us? The threat is genuine and the government is right to step up some security measures, but let us put it into perspective by reminding ourselves that in the period since 7/7, about 6,000 people have been killed on our roads. And let’s not forget the bombings, assassinations, sieges, machine-gunning of restaurants and slaughter that occurred on mainland Britain during the IRA campaign. We survived these without giving up our freedoms .

Or is there some greater as yet undefined malaise that allows a sinister American corporation [i.e., Raytheon – JJB] to infiltrate the fabric of government and supply a system that will monitor everyone going abroad? I cannot say, but I do know that an awful lot depends on the 40 or so Labour MPs needed to defeat Brown’s proposals on pre-trial detention. They should be given every encouragement to defy the whips on the vote, which is expected within the next fortnight.

Well, so much for the hope that Gordon Brown would be an improvement over Tony Blair w/r/t civil liberties.

I see I left out the NYT link in my last comment. Here it is. Nothing worth quoting in it.

43. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

Well I don’t want to labor this too much but the original premis was that right wingers killed Kennedy at least partly because right wingers act in an irrational manner.

I don’t really buy it. They act just like Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry, rationally in the interests of their class.

I did read the James Bamford book and some of the actually planned conspiracies by right wingers in the Pentagon were pretty insane though.

44. JJB - 21 November 2007

Well I don’t want to labor this too much but the original premis was that right wingers killed Kennedy at least partly because right wingers act in an irrational manner.

I don’t really buy it.

Plenty of people are unable to see what’s blatently obvious.

I have a fairly long comment that I think went either to moderation or spam.

45. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

I have a fairly long comment that I think went either to moderation or spam.

WordPress is a CIA front organization.

46. marisacat - 21 November 2007


and the news here has been runing advisories on how best to pack to assist TSA: BE NEAT! Permits easier scanning!

Apparently we live to serve TSA. I don’t dare trvel by air, stopped and harrassed I could no longer trust myself to preserve the old sang froid

47. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

is that they themselves want these extraordinary powers to be intact if and when they take power in January 2009.

So obvious it’s common sense. But they want even more (see also Jane Harman).

48. JJB - 21 November 2007

Hair Club, no. 45,

Now you’re really being childishly tedious. Have a nice holiday weekend, our conversation is ended.

Addendum to my now visible previous post (thanks MCat), here is Chris (banned by DKos) Floyd on the same subject:

For years now, Britain has been the canary in the mineshaft — or perhaps a patient etherized upon a table — when it comes to the daylight robbery of ancient liberties by a “Terror War” state. In many cases, the “New Labour” regime has been far in advance of the Bushists in the practice of this dark art. Not so much the backroom stuff, of course; as we’ve noted here often, Bush and his minions have long claimed — and exercised — the power to snatch people without warrant or charge and stuff them into hidey holes and torture them (or even kill them outright). But in terms of an upfront lockdown of ordinary citizens, and the introduction of Soviet-level draconia in daily life, the Brits have been leading the way, setting examples that the American militarists have eagerly aped. What has been especially instructive is the way that the British public has meekly accepted these vast encroachments, in the face of a threat that is immeasurably less dire and destructive than the Christian terrorism that the nation endured for years on end from the violent sectarians of Northern Ireland.

So the goings-on in Great Britain are not just mildly curious facts about a quaint little island across the sea: they are storm warnings of yet another tyrannical gale that will soon be sweeping over the United States. Last week, Prime Minister Gordon Brown unleashed a cannonade of “security” proposals designed to transform Blake’s “green and pleasant land” into a bristling “Fortress Britain.” Strangely enough — or rather, not so strangely to anyone remotely acquainted with the modus operandi of Terror War states — the measures seem to be aimed more at the British people than any would-be enemies lurking outside the gates.

Consider Brown’s plan to cordon the island with an “e-border,” described here by Simon Jenkins, writing in the conservative Sunday Times:

All comers and goers are to be electronically recorded and asked to supply addresses, phone numbers and computer details, up to 53 items of personal information. Officials are to be given powers to revoke visitor visas at immigration desks without appeal. It will make America’s draconian immigration control seem like open house.

Things like this make me happy to see what’s going on in France. Would that the things Floyd et al. describe engendered that sort of reaction here and in the UK.

49. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

is that they themselves want these extraordinary powers to be intact if and when they take power in January 2009.

And part of the hysteria in the Donklecrat netroots comes from the fact that they’re trying to psych themselves into feeling OK about using them.

OMG teh Nazis are coming..

50. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

hysteria over Ron Paul

They need to believe a resurgent militia movement is coming for Hillary

51. marisacat - 21 November 2007

[S]o let us boldly ask: What exactly is entailed by the requirement to recognise Israel as a Jewish state? What do we recognise and support when we purchase a delightful avocado or a date from Israel or when we invite Israel to take part in an international football event? What does it mean to be a friend of Israel? What precisely is that Jewish state whose status as such would be once and for all legitimised by such a two-state solution?

A Jewish state is a state which exists more for the sake of whoever is considered Jewish according to various ethnic, tribal, religious, criteria, than for the sake of those who do not pass this test. What precisely are the criteria of the test for Jewishness is not important and at any rate the feeble consensus around them is constantly reinvented in Israel. Instigating violence provides them with the impetus for doing that. What is significant, thought, is that a test of Jewishness is being used in order to constitutionally protect differential stakes in, that is the differential ownership of, a polity. ::snip::

Don’t worry, he is an Israeli, and thus allowed to speak.

52. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

Now you’re really being childishly tedious. Have a nice holiday weekend, our conversation is ended.

OK. I apologize. You shouldn’t tell jokes on the internet. It’s not a good medium for humor. No body language, tone of voice etc.

But re Kennedy and the evil psycho right wingers. I think you’re trying to rescue a bogus good vs. evil, left vs. right division between the Democrats and Republicans.

Kennedy was an imperialist from the ruling class. Why would the right kill a handsome charismatic front man like that?

He could have sold the war in Vietnam in a way Johnson and Nixon (ugly old trolls) could never have.

53. JJB - 21 November 2007

Very good piece on Pakistan over at Counterpunch:

The real motivation for Musharraf’s declared emergency is not to defend the country against “Islamic extremists,” as he claims, but to maintain Musharraf in power. He acted to prevent public protests that lawyers and political parties were organizing. And his scheme is working. Musharraf’s new brand-new, hand-picked Supreme Court ruled on Monday that Musharraf can remain in power for five more years.

Meanwhile, the Bush Administration is scurrying around in damage control mode. Musharraf’s actions would be very embarrassing for Bush — if Bush were the type of guy to get embarrassed. After all, Bush has been claiming for the past several years that he wants to spread democracy throughout the Islamic world. Somehow, Musharraf’s declared state of emergency, followed by mass arrests of his political opponents, doesn’t seem very democratic.

Bush dispatched Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte to Pakistan to talk sense to Musharraf. Negroponte urged Musharraf to end the state of emergency. But Bush’s man didn’t complain about Musharraf shutting down the Supreme Court and replacing it with his loyalists. Negroponte also failed to tell Musharraf to release the judges and lawyers from prison. So much for democracy and an independent judiciary.. . . Musharraf has agreed that parliamentary elections scheduled for January will proceed and that he will take off his military uniform after the sham elections are held. Of course, Musharraf’s jailed political opponents will likely find it difficult to campaign effectively for seats in parliament while incarcerated under a state of martial law.


Bush claims that Musharraf is an indispensable ally in his “war against terror,” and that money sent to Pakistan supports that goal. It appears from my vantage point, though, that Musharraf is playing Bush for a fool. Musharraf tells Bush he will help destroy the Taliban. However, Pakistani Professor Pervez Hoodbhoy wrote in the November 18 Los Angeles Times that some people in Pakistan believe Musharraf is “secretly supporting the Taliban as a means for countering Indian influence.” Moreover, if Musharraf wants to regain and maintain support of the Pakistani people, he will continue to support the Taliban. Hoodbhoy also wrote, “Most Pakistanis see the [Taliban] as America’s enemy, not their own. The Taliban is perceived as the only group standing up against the unwelcome American presence in the region.” According to Hoodbhoy, “For more than 25 years, the army has nurtured Islamist radicals as proxy warriors for covert operations on Pakistan’s borders in Kashmir and Afghanistan.”

Hoodbhoy’s remarks are corroborated by Adrien Levy, co-author of “Deception: Pakistan, the United States and the Global Nuclear Weapons Conspiracy.” Levy told Amy Goodman on Democracy Now!, “The [Musharraf] agenda is to destabilize Afghanistan, to create a government there which is favorable to Islamabad. These are goals which are actually contrary to the goals–very largely contrary to the goals of the West. Yet,” Levy, said, “this slowly moving car crash of the U.S. pumping billions of untraceable cash into the Pakistan military has continued since 2001 and we’re left with the position where Pakistan is devoid of democracy, democracy is weakened and feeble, and we have just increased instability, quite honestly.”

Also worth reading, a short piece suggesting that if you want to gauge the likelihood of a US attack on Iran, watch what the oil industry does and says.

54. marisacat - 21 November 2007

Ruth Marcus quotes Krugman back to Krugman. On Social Security.

Pity the Dems never planned to fight this one at all. Not really…

55. JJB - 21 November 2007

More on Pakistan, this from the Asia Times:

As I wrote in a previous article, Pakistan’s existence as an artificial construct imposed by the British on the people of South Asia was laid bare by the events that led to Bangladesh’s independence in 1971. Since then, the confusion about the country’s raison d’ etre has only intensified.

No longer serving its intended mission as a homeland for the region’s Muslim population, Pakistan has instead evolved into a perennially unstable country that lurches from one crisis to the next. In practice, Pakistan exists because it is unthinkable for anyone in Western capitals to have the country break down further.


I have made no secret of the regard in which Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz deserves to be held by both developmental economists and the world’s geopolitically-sensitive population, for the honest and capable attempt made at turning around the economy. Increasingly though, with his mentor sinking into an ever-greater hole, the prime minister’s position appears tenuous. His importance though is only likely to increase because of these events.

This is the person, not President General Pervez Musharraf, who can move Pakistan from its fractious past to a better future. By focusing on industrial development, infrastructure growth and freeing up the wheels of finance, Aziz has helped to spark the first real phase of sustained economic growth in the country for the past few decades. To be sure, the external environment of strong growth in various parts of Asia has also helped, but the fact that Pakistan isn’t lagging behind is certainly good news.

The biggest threat to his work comes not so much from Islamic fundamentalists, but rather the “democratic” alternative, namely former premiers Benazir Bhutto, or indeed Nawaz Sharif. The former is now re-enacting the events of the late 1980s when the US swept General Zia ul-Haq under the carpet and ushered in a new era for democracy in Pakistan, albeit quite short-lived.

Even as many media outlets portray these two leaders as beacons of democracy, their record while in power proved dismal, with economic growth sliding to a standstill even as inflation increased. It was their record of corruption while in power and frequent squabbling that led the Pakistani people to distrust democracy, and it is quite ironic to see events coming full circle.

Employing game theory to understand Pakistan proves productive. The country is the sovereign equivalent of the Nash Equilibrium – a dilemma in which all the players accept sub-optimal outcomes because they simply cannot trust each other. Thus, while the US accepts cohabitation with a ruthless dictator because it distrusts the alternatives, the Pakistani people accept the lack of democracy because the record of economic growth under the military was better. This equilibrium prevailed from September 11, 2001, to its sixth anniversary, roughly.

For some reason, folks in Washington seem to have decided to throw out the rulebook and try to create a new game, in which they may have assumed that the wily general would accept a reduced role. The “savior” would be Bhutto again, this time to provide popular legitimacy to America’s biggest friend in the region.

The idea was probably to blunt the increasing popularity of Islamic fundamentalists among the Pakistani public by bringing in a leader with her own fanatical fan following. Thus it was almost guaranteed that the former would try to get rid of the latter – as seen in the suicide bomb blasts that greeted Bhutto’s welcome parade when returning to the country after years of exile.

56. marisacat - 21 November 2007

a nicely detailed oral swab of the Catholic Church in Italy. A bit of a slog but a lot there…

57. marisacat - 21 November 2007

hmmm if she makes it in, deal or no deal, however it happens, I think Hillary goes Nixonian. SO this from John Ellis was entertaining. IIRC JE is a Bush cousin, tho RCP does not mention that…

58. JJB - 21 November 2007


John Ellis is indeed Dim Son’s first cousin, and he was responsible for getting FOX News to declare DS the winner in 2000, before any of the other networks, as I recall. He held a high-level position at FOX News back then.

59. JJB - 21 November 2007

Just read the Ellis piece, which is pretty good advice. Of course, Nixon had a hell of a lot of help from circumstances over which neither he nor anyone else had any control. And those not entirely unscripted “Man In The Arena” meetings he talks about, while effective at first, became soporific, then decidedly sour. He had a huge lead over Humphrey in early October, then went into freefall. Those MITA events (which were 30 minute TV shows that aired on the major networks, I watched most if not all of the ones that ran during the Fall campaign) became gradually more tepid, and Nixon looked increasingly wooden and uncomfortable.

The media started to focus on how they were put together so as to offer little if any skeptical questioning of the candidate. The format was that Nixon would stand on the floor of a television studio, with an audience of local GOPeratives cheering him, and take questions from a panel consisting of two or three average Joes/Janes, and one media figure. An early show done in Philadelphia featured a writer/radio personality named Jack McKinney who gave Nixon a very rough time indeed, and subsequent shows had panels that were stacked with people unlikely to make Mad Dick feel uncomfortable. On one occasion, a scheduled panelist had to be replaced because it was discovered that he was a psychiatrist. When a show was done in NYC towards the end of the campaign, the media representative was some reactionary dumbbell from the Daily News (one Gene Spagnola, as I recall). The dialogue that resulted was so stupifyingly dull that a few audience members (including Gov. Nelson Rockefeller) nodded off.

Joe McGinniss detailed all of that in his interesting, if cursory, Selling of the President.

60. wilfred - 21 November 2007

Thanks for that link about the Catholic Church marisa. That was an eyefull.

61. JJB - 21 November 2007

Ian Smith is dead at the age of 88:

Ian Smith, the former prime minister of Britain’s rebellious colony of Rhodesia, who once promised that white rule in Africa would endure for 1,000 years, died yesterday in South Africa. He was 88.

White rule that would endure for 1,000 years. Gee, that doesn’t remind me of anything said by any other racist leaders.

He stepped momentously into the history of central Africa [in 1964], at a time when the flood tide of black nationalism seemed to be racing down the continent. Mr. Smith and his colleagues, with the kind of defiance that white Rhodesians applauded, set themselves against what in time proved to be inevitable.

On Nov. 11, 1965, Mr. Smith announced in emotionless tones that Rhodesia had declared independence from Britain rather than bow to pressure from London for concessions toward the black majority.

It was a broadcast proclamation of rebellion, ending with the words: “We have struck a blow for the preservation of justice, civilization and Christianity, and in this belief we have this day assumed our sovereign independence. God bless you all.”

His white countrymen were confident that “good old Smithy” knew what he was doing. His black compatriots were aghast at his display of defiance. But their resentments were countered by a state machinery that encompassed detention without trial, an efficient secret police and, later, martial law. Mr. Mugabe was one of many black nationalists jailed for years by the white authorities under emergency powers.

Condemnation of the rebellion heaped up. The United Nations applied international sanctions intended to cut off Rhodesia from the rest of the world in 1966.

Mr. Smith would not bend. “No African rule in my lifetime,” he said. “The white man is master of Rhodesia. He has built it, and he intends to keep it.”

Later, in 1976, he declared that there would be no majority rule, “not in a thousand years,” in Rhodesia. Black Africans, Mr. Smith said, were not ready for self-government.

He and his followers justified their repression by saying they were “holding the line” against Communism and “resisting the chaos” of newly formed black nations beyond the Zambezi River. He expressed bewilderment at the refusal of the United States, Britain and other Western powers to reinforce his self-adopted “front line against international Communism” — code language for black domination and a reflection of the cold war divisions of the era.

I have never understood how he was able to hold on for as long as he did, it always seemed to me that if the British really wanted to get rid of him and turn the colony over to the majority of its inhabitants, they could have done it without too much trouble.

62. JJB - 21 November 2007

Above, I posted links to pieces talking about the British government’s mania for collecting data on its citizens, and how the British public is not sufficiently angry about it. That may change thanks to this extraorindary incident:

Britain’s prime minister Gordon Brown and chancellor Alistair Darling were left reeling last night after the astonishing disclosure that the personal data of 25 million people and 7.25 million families across the UK has been lost.

The Metropolitan Police are now leading the search for two disks containing details of the UK’s entire child benefits database. The data was downloaded in breach of all standing procedures by junior officials at HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) and then sent to the National Audit Office via an internal postal system that was not recorded or registered.

Upon discovering that the package had not arrived, the breach was repeated, with the package sent this time by registered post.


The data contains names and addresses of parents and children, national insurance and child benefit numbers and, in some cases, bank or building society details.

Mr Darling said the missing password-protected information would not be enough to access accounts.. . . However, security experts expressed astonishment that the highly personal and sensitive data was not encrypted, warning that a password protection system could easily be broken by hackers.

And as the prime minister confirmed his “full confidence” in the chancellor [“Darling, you’re doin’ a heck of a job!” – JJB], who did not offer to resign, Conservative shadow chancellor George Osborne said Mr Darling faced “a huge task” in restoring public confidence.

“He will have to demonstrate over the next few weeks that he is capable of doing that,” warned Mr Osborne, as acting Liberal Democrat leader Vince Cable suggested the treasury had replaced the home office as the government department most “unfit for purpose”.

63. wu ming - 21 November 2007

it certainly puts britain’s horror at mugabe’s thuggery in a different light.

64. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

I have never understood how he was able to hold on for as long as he did,

I would *guess* that the right wing pushback and terrorism a few years before in France in response to DeGualle’s scared them off.

65. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

in response to DeGualle’s stance on Algeria

66. cad - 21 November 2007

Isn’t Scott McClellan’s excerpt a huge bombshell?

As fer Paul, smart as he be, I don’t understand why any progressive would get behind him. Do you think he’s going to improve social infrastructure in America? Paul supporters seem fairly blind to his fiscal policies (or approving), which to paraphrase THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE will make martial law look like anarchy.

Kucinich is the man.

67. Miss Devore - 21 November 2007

yesterday the local paper here reprinted tom friedman’s nyt column about the wisdom of an Obama/Cheney prez ticket with respect to American policy towards Iran. I can no longer tell who is the wackiest–friedman or podhoretz.

68. Miss Devore - 21 November 2007

throwing in what’s missing: “n”

69. JJB - 21 November 2007

Miss Devore, no. 66,

Speaking of Friedman, here’s the opening para to today’s masterpiece of unintended hilarity:

Watching Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice making repeated trips to Israel to try to broker some kind of deal between Israelis and Palestinians, while Iraq remains politically unresolved, leaves me feeling like my house is burning down and the fire department has decided to stop along the way to get two cats out of a tree.

Can’t say I blame them, Tom, especially if you’re still in the house.

The rest is even worse, a brilliant demonstration of how to use sognitive dissonance to meet a deadline.

70. Miss Devore - 21 November 2007

69-“sognitive” great coin, if only accidental. soggy cognition.

71. JJB - 21 November 2007

MD, no. 70,

I’d love to say I was punning, but alas that was merely sloppy typing.

72. Miss Devore - 21 November 2007

67–hilarious–the US should be sending its “top diplomat”—who the fuck could that be?

the violence in Iraq has moved northward. you know, the relatively peaceful north.

73. JJB - 21 November 2007

Another great day on Wall Street!

As of 3:30 PM EST, it’s down over 140 points on the day. I believe it’s lost between 1,300 to 1,400 points over the course of the last 6 or 7 weeks, despite all the injections of cash and lower of Fed interest rates.

74. JJB - 21 November 2007

Make that a loss for the day of 211 points. Once again, the last 30 minutes sees a very bad day get significantly worse.

The DOW is now under 12,800 (just barely) for the first time in a very long time.

75. marisacat - 21 November 2007

here is an AP story on the close today…….

[T]he worries over the economy sent investors rushing to the safety of government securities. The yield on the Treasury’s 10-year note for a time fell below 4 percent for the first time since 2005. The shift into bonds came as the Dow briefly sank below the lows seen in the market’s August pullback.

The stock market has been thrashing about recently as investors attempt to gauge how companies will fare amid a further slowdown in the U.S. housing market, deterioration of credit and record oil prices that crested overnight above $99 a barrel. Stocks, which have fallen in seven of the previous nine sessions, haven’t enjoyed the boost seen in recent years during Thanksgiving week, which is capped by the retail bonanza Black Friday.

According to preliminary calculations, the Dow fell 211.10, or 1.62 percent, to 12,799.94. All of the financial companies that are part of the 30-stock index hit fresh 52-week lows Wednesday. The blue chip index is now down nearly 9.8 percent from its mid-October trading high and near the technical threshold for a correction: 10 percent.

Broader stock indicators also fell. The Standard & Poor’s 500 index dropped 22.93, or 1.59 percent, to 1,416.77. At one point, the index’s decline Wednesday put it in negative territory for the year. Many investments such as mutual funds either track or are measured against the S&P 500.

76. marisacat - 21 November 2007

IIRC Friday is a half day of trading… They can only shore it up so much….

77. marisacat - 21 November 2007

Gawd. All you can do is laugh:

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:



Maybe it does not matter, maybe nobody cares but Jan 3 in Iowa and Jan 8 in NH means frantic TV campaigning thru Xmas, pols willing to pay top dollar will bump merchant/product ads (not that that matters)… and only 4 days between them. gah.

So… shall Hillary Obama and Edwards be campaigning in Santa suits?


78. marisacat - 21 November 2007

oh dear… however it came about this plays into Sarko’s greedy nasty little hands:

Arson Escalates French Train Crisis

Attacks on France’s high-speed train network early Wednesday morning meant further delays for frustrated commuters after eight days of system-wide strikes. The fires could derail negotiations as well.

It’s come to this: After more than a week of strikes that have crippled France’s public transport sector, French rail officials have raised allegations of “coordinated sabotage” on several of the country’s high-speed rail lines just as negotiations to end an eight-day strike are beginning.

The method of choice? Arson. Guillaume Pepy, director of French national railway SNCF, said deliberate fires destroyed critical cables at a junction on the system’s eastern line, which also serves destinations in southern Germany, including Frankfurt and Stuttgart.

On the other side of France, a “very important fire” set on the system’s Atlantic line knocked out 30 kilometers of signalling equipment.

The charges raise the stakes of the battle between rail unions and the government to a new level. Union official Bernard Thibault condemned the attacks as “unacceptable” and “cowardly,” and said they were a ploy to “discredit the strike movement.” But SNCF has implied the arson attacks were a way for “diehard strikers” to further cripple train service even after negotiations began.

the article had a lot of US media style hand wring and defense of “public opinion” polls and so on. I even thought Spiegel had picked up a NYT article, as they sometimes do, but no, not…

79. ms_xeno - 21 November 2007


At the risk of providing even more fodder for the true believers at IOZ’s space, I don’t think any form of government will create de facto respect between governing bodies and those they govern. Of course, I don’t think that removing all government is likely to create it either.

I’m old. :/

Stop by in about seven hours. I’ve been putting a ton of high-cholesterel cookie dough in the fridge intermittently since late last month. At sundown the marathon baking session commences and before midnight all the hapless victims who aren’t pretty enough for display at tomorrow’s potluck will be mercilessly consumed with a side of ice-cold soymilk– splash of coffee optional.

I hope everyone likes chocolate and coconut.

Cheers. 😉

80. ms_xeno - 21 November 2007

Oh, I was trying to state that I’m basically in agreement w/wu ming on this one.

P.S.– Better than cookies, for Madman and assorted other vile degenerates, a little Soul Vaccination

81. Miss Devore - 21 November 2007

xeno-was just thinking of you. as I am cooking. (just today’s meal, not t-day stuff) crockneck (in homage to politicians) squash with pancetta, garlic, italian parsely, tomato & capers. waiting for the angelhair to boil.

82. ms_xeno - 21 November 2007

Miss D, I am not worthy. mr_x may be providing us with shrimp-fried rice tonight, but this is currently only a rumor.

Also, I’ve missed the rumored self-unmasking of Supreme Commander Ficus and whomever else as mentioned in the last thread. Anyone who wants to provide a link to the highlights can have extra cookies.

83. marisacat - 21 November 2007

ms xeno

here is where donktitzshitz lost it. Quite the reveal. But not surprising.

84. ms_xeno - 21 November 2007

Sounds like his usual. I must be missing something. Is this exchange proof that he’s some legendary Kozzie or another ? I don’t have the background to tell.

85. marisacat - 21 November 2007

sorry. It (his comment) was linked as well in the comment in the previous thread. The accompanying comments between myself, bay and moiv were to his exposure of pent up hatred.

At least as I see it. Maybe that sort of thing is fine with people, again who knows.

86. ms_xeno - 21 November 2007

Not “fine with.” Certainly typical of a lot of spaces. Especially the bit where they crumble and feign humility and kindness the minute you call them on their shit. But then they just pick up with the same verbal abuse game the next time out. It makes you wonder how much of this crap they pull on people IRL as well.

I’ve seen more extreme cases, sadly. Some of them not even male.

87. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

67–hilarious–the US should be sending its “top diplomat”—who the fuck could that be?

Angelina Jolie? Or maybe Bill-Oh?

88. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

I don’t think any form of government will create de facto respect between governing bodies and those they govern.

It’s the codification of shared antipathy that made this Constitutional system possible. I’m convinced that one of the reasons we’re in such trouble is the bullshit “bi-partisanship” that has been increasingly demanded by the duopoly mis-ruling this nation.

A representative Democracy only works when every group competes with and despises every other group, yet EVERYBODY gets a chance at the podium to spew vitriol. Take that away, and bad shit happens.

89. ms_xeno - 21 November 2007

Oh, and in response to Mcat’s call that I do another long form call-out of Amanda. Sincerely flattered, but I fail to see the point. Sure, it would be fun, but more fun than collaging ?– on which I’m sincerely falling behind as of late– No chance. Nobody outside our little corner of paradise will pick up on it anyway. The DP owns the feminist blogosphere and the feminist blogosphere owns the very concept of feminism nowadays. [snerk] Remember if you’re agin’ the DP, you’re agin’ saving them 3rd world sisters and their helpless babies. Ho hum. Hence I am left with Ampersand hemming and hawing at me that sure he’d like to address the issues I brought up but I’m just sooooooooooo meeeeeeean to the oh-so-important and put-upon Ms. Marcotte and so he can’t. Etc.

Fuck it. Those who care to know the truth about these women and their bullshit already know. The rest are beyond my reach, I suspect. It’ll take a much better and more prolific writer, and one not subject to vanishing from the net for months at a time whenever it all gets too damn depressing to deal with.

90. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

Thanks for the Soul Vaccination … it helped clear up some of the blackness on this tired soul.

Speaking of fun, cool stuff, have you heard Nellie McKay’s “Mother of Pearl”?

I nominate it for our unofficial theme song.

91. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

Pakistan’s arrest of journalists – an eyewitness account:

The rally

The Pakistan Federal Union of Journalists (PFUJ) and the Karachi Union of Journalists (KUJ) had called for a peaceful demonstration at 03:00 Tuesday (yesterday) outside the Karachi Press Club. The purpose was to demand the freedom of the Press, etc. Please note, all of us were totally unarmed, while the police surrounding the area were in complete riot gear with shields and motey dandey and bulletproof vests, helmets, knee pads, and whatnot. The entire area around the press club had been cordoned off.

The moment the rally got out of the Press Club, we were attacked (yes, “attacked”) by the policemen. There was a LOAD of brutal baton-charging, and one policeman hit ARY’s Aajiz Jamali so hard on his back with the shield, that the shield broke in two. :-S Women and men were hit indiscriminately and very VERY brutally — yes I can emphasize that enough. I’m skinny — I crawled around and got out unhurt, but a lot of other people were seriously injured. Everyone ran back towards the press club. Some of our office bearers and senior people had been picked up.

92. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

IOZ’s latest, and too short, right on and to the point to excerpt. Just click and read.

93. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007
94. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

Welcome to PTSD Nation.

“I asked Sgt. Gaskins about his hopes for the future. He replied that he has no future.” — psychotherapist Rosemary Masters

This is the cost of our wars, and sooner or later we need to begin paying down the debt. But it is only payable in the devalued currency of the truth. For now, Soldier, we’re still in denial and you’re under arrest.

Welcome to PTSD Nation.

We don’t have a draft because in Vietnam our draftee army mutinied and refused, finally, to continue pursuing a hellish, unwinnable war. Today, as we pursue an equally hellish, equally unwinnable war, we are in the process of destroying our all-volunteer, gung-ho army, one GI at a time.

Brad Gaskins, of Newark, N.J., was at one time as gung-ho as a soldier can get, the ideal recruit, the boy with a hero’s heart. He’d been the starting quarterback on his high school football team and had enlisted in the Army at age 17, while still a senior. That was 1999. He wanted to serve his country, fight hard, win a medal. He swelled with pride when he wore his olive-green dress uniform to church. When we think “support our troops,” we’re thinking of Brad Gaskins.

He served a stint in Kosovo, came home, made sergeant in three years. When we went into Iraq, he was on the front line of the invasion, pushing into Baghdad. Here’s where it started: the horror that slowly turned to nightmares, that wrecked his marriage, that pushed him to the edge of sanity and resulted in his going AWOL in 2006. This was after two tours of duty in Iraq, and after he could get no help at Fort Drum, in Watertown, N.Y., where he was stationed.

In 2003, after the shock-and-awe bombing campaign, “his unit was tasked to bury the bodies of the Iraqi dead,” Masters wrote in her psychological evaluation of Gaskins a month ago. “He had found this assignment very disturbing.

“Bulldozers were used to push the bodies into mass graves,” she wrote. “The bodies would fall apart, the smell was unforgettable. He felt badly that the bodies were treated with such disrespect. There was no effort made to identify the dead so that their families could know what happened to them. He was expected to handle many of the dead bodies which were significantly decayed and often ‘oozing goop’ into the ground.”

95. marisacat - 21 November 2007


it was lighthearted, that was all. Nothing more.

96. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007
97. Miss Devore - 21 November 2007

83-I’m flat out of bennies of doubt. I would have re-posted my “Ignoring is an Option” essay, but I’m afraid I’d veer into feature-hood, like Meteor Blades replaying his, “How I Came to Embrace Thanksgiving” every year at dk to the slobberation.

I passed a fish mart in town today, and they were advertising “Fresh Local Crab.” right. No need to add oil to that recipe.

98. marisacat - 21 November 2007

that was a lovely remembrance of Chris Clarke’s dog. I don’t read him enough to have known about the dog…

99. marisacat - 21 November 2007

hmm well the news has said the big Oregon boats went way out to get the crab then brought it in south of the oil, to MOnterey.

However, now there is at least one local crabber going out.

And, neatly, the testing on the crabs will not be back til Nov 28.

It all works out, just not well

100. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

The long series of posts when his dog was preparing to move on was heartbreaking, and I say that as a non-animal person. I suppose there is something broken in me that I can’t form connections like that.

The new one about Thanksgiving is beautiful, too, but I have a particular soft spot for Chris’ poems.

101. marisacat - 21 November 2007

and had enlisted in the Army at age 17, while still a senior. That was 1999.

hmmm think you need the signature of at least one parent, if you are 17.

I know in the case of Arredondo, who set himself on fire when the “bereavement corps” came to tell him about his son, his ex wife signed for the 17 y/o son, against his wishes.

102. marisacat - 21 November 2007

I’ve seen more extreme cases, sadly. Some of them not even male.

LOL did not say it was either unique or a form of gender identification. I do find it unacceptable… tho of course well within freedom of speech… The two are not, imo, mutually exclusive.

103. Miss Devore - 21 November 2007

87-Angelina needs to adopt a Palestinian, an Iraqi, an Afhgani, and…. a child from wherever else we threw things off balance. She can be the post 9/11 Mia Farrow.

I made it through yet another epsom salt bath without being tasered. Blessings are being counted.

104. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

you’re lucky, Miss D, as salted water conducts electricity really well.

105. Miss Devore - 21 November 2007

Mitm, I will be vigilant every time I bathe in that manner.

Are you having snow in Milwaukee?

106. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

Jennifer Beals vs. Ilsa She Wolf of the SS?


Uggh. That gave me a headache.

107. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

This is fascinating in a morbid sort of way.


A 6’1″ Polish/Swiss American would probably stick out like a sore thumb but if I were Korean, could speak the language, and were willing to risk going to the gulag for the rest of my life, I’d consider going on a tour and breaking away (and maybe making it to the border or something).

108. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

I’m completely addicted now to this conspiracy theory site. It’s either a conspiracy theory site or a clever and very sophisticated anti-conspiracy theory site.


There’s a lot of great stuff on Fitzmass being a distraction from Roberts too.

I’d love to see a David Foster Wallace a Don Dilllo or a Thomas Pynchon take on 9/11 conspiracy theories, or a younger version of one of them.

109. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

Are you having snow in Milwaukee?

Why yes, we are! It’s tapered off, but there is a glaze of white upon the grass, and big, fat, fluffy flurries drifting down from a grey sky.

I looked out the window when I went to lunch, and there was the most amazing cloud formation over Lake Michigan. It was as though someone drew a line above the lake, tracing out a bank of clouds in grey/cobalt blue in a harsh line just above the water.

I’m so not ready for this.

110. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

Sunsara Taylor held her own, I thought.

I love when fascists play the victim.

111. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

Sunsara Taylor held her own, I thought

That was news as professional wrestling. I know Sunsara and all the WCW people very well and they’re all perfectly sincere but something about it reminds me of the Atrios/Kos principle, left vs. right political theater only here it’s for a bit of a younger crowd.

Bush is evil. And as a standin you get a cardboard cutout cartoon villain like Laura Ingraham. You get everybody psyched up to take on the right and get rid of Bush. But by this point, Bush is besides the point.

112. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

Although Laura Ingraham just seems nuts at this point.

She almost makes O’Reilly look like Brian Lehrer.

113. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

Oh, agreed, but what to do?

Really, we’re just fucked. People like Bush and his surrogates in teh MSM, like Laura, they rule the day. Can’t bring myself to criticize folks like Taylor who try to beard the lion in its den, though.

I think the Republic is dead, and we’re done, but I have to admire the folks who produce theater to demonstrate it.

114. marisacat - 21 November 2007

Sarko v le greviculture in The Guardian….

115. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

Oh, agreed, but what to do?

I keep thinking of “Into the Wild”.

Just live your life according to what you consider your own ideal, even if you have to die for it.

(Sean Penn of course is a huge supporter of WCW)

Can’t bring myself to criticize folks like Taylor who try to beard the lion in its den, though.

She’s an RCP member, probably their most active organizer now (you’ll never see Bob Avakian if you hang around with them for 100,000 years).


But the best stuff she writes is more standard issue left liberal feminism. I don’t see that much difference between her and Amanda Marcotte or Jessica Valenti (other than not supporting the Democrats). But if Bush is the most pure representive of fascism in the USA and the political goal it to get rid of him. then there is no difference between Sunsara’s marxist group and Moveon.

Trotskyists attack them all the time (and this won’t make sense unless you’re in a high density “left” area full of Marxist parties). I used to think they were full of shit but now I’m beginning to think they have a point.

116. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

Although that whole “don’t you think decent anti-war people should denounce this” would probably fluster Amanda Marcotte in a way it wouldn’t fluster Sunsara (since Amanda really does want to maintain her viability in the Democratic Party).

But I don’t think they’d have Amanda Marcotte on Fox. They’d probably have Lindsey Beyerstein or Jessica Valenti or someone more easily coopted because she’d be thinking of her future viability in the MSM.

117. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

This whole French thing is just running by me in the very distant corner of my eye and I’m barely noticing it.

118. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

oh, thanks for that MCat. This sums it up pretty well, I think:

As a result, few in the opposition have dared raise their voice against the new consensus to debate the nature of the reforms Sarkozy wishes to implement. The silence of a moribund Socialist party, in disarray since Ségolène Royal’s defeat in the presidential elections, has left it to the small radical parties on the left to try to explain that the special pension schemes of railway workers offer a small privilege compared with the status of MPs, who after five years in parliament are entitled to a €1,600 (£1,100) monthly pension. It has been left to the head of the Revolutionary Communist League, Olivier Besancenot, to explain that scrapping the special pension schemes will save taxpayers only €400m. A drop in the €1,200bn public debt ocean.

As Besancenot said yesterday: railworkers are just Sarkozy’s aperitif, then he’ll take on the rest of the workforce as his main course. Unless the French have him for breakfast first.

When will workers learn that the bosses are the enemy. Gnaw on your resentments of others in time, but skin the bosses first.

119. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

When will workers learn that the bosses are the enemy.

When they learn to identify exactly who the bosses are. It’s not like the 19th Century where you were a dirty faced prole starving in the coal mining town and the owner was walking around in a top hat.

There are so many layers of distraction that it’s hard to figure out who’s got power over you.

120. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

I don’t see that much difference between her and Amanda Marcotte or Jessica Valenti (other than not supporting the Democrats)

You’re kidding, right?

Seriously, I’m utterly confused about what it is that you would respect. Sniper rifles picking off elected officials? American-style Bolsheviks on scooters mowing down cops with Mossberg shotguns? What does it take?

I mean, I thought I was a cynical bastard, but you have me beat by a mile. What would be “authentic” to you? Are you just a photo-pimp, angling for a good image?

I’ve read your rantings here for weeks … no, MONTHS now, and I don’t know what the fuck you expect, what you would respect. Are you an uber-leftist waiting for proletarian mobs in the street? Are you an anarchist hoping for burning barricades of tires? Are you a mercenary, a vulture hoping for a good image to sell?

Seriously, Hair, what is your deal?

121. marisacat - 21 November 2007

There are so many layers of distraction that it’s hard to figure out who’s got power over you.

read a good article at Counterpunch on that earlier today. The fellow who has been writing on WGA strike and union issues. He had an article up on the ‘special assignment’ scam to divide union members (and before anyone gets all hot and bothered I am nto some big union supporter, certainly not as they are configured).

I am sure anyone who cares can find it and I can not bother.

122. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

Are you an uber-leftist waiting for proletarian mobs in the street?

I think I want to tune out and just forget about politics altogether.

I was heavily involved with WCW until late 2006. I wrote a good deal of their content for the website. I spent a lot of time working on their press time, dealing with the media, etc.

Nothing happened. Their first marches were fairly big for what they were and fairly spirited. Then they just got smaller and smaller and smaller and the people at their core (like Sunsara and some of the “Appeal for Redress” people who joined them later) just kept doing the same thing.

We’re heading towards fascism but the response is always “let people know there’s torture going on and have permitted marches”.

They never stop and say “hey this isn’t working”. Nobody in the anti-war movement does. It’s like UFPJ with more radical signs and orange jumpsuits. It doesn’t work.

I don’t know what to do but what I do know is that so much of this is staged bullshit. The people doing it aren’t consciously doing it but that’s the way it works out.

I was apolitical before 9/11. I got radicalized by it. I feel used and manipulated. I want to go back to being apolitical again.

123. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

I was apolitical before 9/11. I got radicalized by it. I feel used and manipulated. I want to go back to being apolitical again.

Yet you criticize people who try. Maybe it won’t work, but at least they’re TRYING. I’m pretty radicalized myself. I think we’re done. People who used to enjoy arguing w/ me about politics are puzzled by my refusal to argue w/ them any more … they’ve won, after all. I’m involved w/ politics now like an accident junkie is “involved” with accident reports. I’m a creature out of a J. G. Ballard story.

Yet given all of that, I have to respect people who fucking try, especially in a culture as brutal toward dissenters as this one is. Criticize the people who contribute to the problem.

124. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

Seriously, is it just that it is strong women that you have a problem with?

125. marisacat - 21 November 2007

I noticed you said the other night how tired you are.

Why not take a break?

And if it suits, go back to being apolitical. One less? Who cares? Right?

A mere 6 years, and after all as I have long said, Bush is MERELY outcome, and you are tired.

Yes, take a break.

126. marisacat - 21 November 2007


nto sure that wound up party twit Marcotte can be said to be strong, nor Jessica, who is so fundamentally ignorant it is stunning.

They mostly write about sex, and in very, profoundly, one dimensional terms.

127. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

of course, wanting to be “apolitical” is so very ‘Merican, and the source of so many problems. The only people who can safely be “apolitical” are vassals of the owners and slaves. Life IS politics, and always have been. The owners know this, but sadly nobody else wants to face it. Life is a class war, and it never ends.

128. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

Seriously, is it just that it is strong women that you have a problem with?

Well, maybe I should go back into psychoanalysis and work on my mother issues but that would be

apolitical” so very ‘Merican, and the source of so many problems

If life really is all about politics and classes of people and if being apolitical makes you a slave than I’m not really horribly different from any other vaguely radical 30ish male and that goes for my attitudes towards women, race, homosexuality, whatever. I’m ordinary, probably a lot like you.

So what’s the deal then with all of us Merken white males who hate women?

Do we suck it up and vote Democrat? Or just continue to waive signs and chant Hey Hey Ho Ho Bush has got to go.

FWIW, my mother thinks I hate Hillary because I have problems with strong women. She’s a big fan…..

129. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

so what’s the deal then with all of us Merken white males who hate women?

Maybe just expend a little more energy toward the oppressors and a little less toward the people who protest.

130. antihegemonic - 21 November 2007

Those who study the history of protest in France understand revolution to be a repetitive structure that paradoxically the sustains the structure it attempts to dismantle. Perhaps this explains your enervation.

A metahistorical perspective has its benefits.

131. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

Maybe just expend a little more energy toward the oppressors and a little less toward the people who protest.

I didn’t know I spent that much energy towards “people who protest” and no energy at all towards “the oppressors”.

In fact, I don’t remember having bashed anti-war protesters at all, just expressed frustration that what they’ve been doing since the Fall of 2002 doesn’t seem to be working or moving forward.

Or is it? It did help get the Democrats Congress in 2006.

But whatever. I’ll have plenty of time to resent “strong women” with Hillary in the White House and “us” still in Iraq. Have a good Thanksgiving.

132. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

oh, wonderfully disengenuous … you spent all of your vitriol on Taylor, none on the faux chippie, and …

… hell, why am I bothering? jjb had the right response to your thrashing and scorn.

133. bayprairie - 21 November 2007

the word for today is traumatized.

in order to regain peace of mind, or a sense of wellbeing, even if only for a moment, one has to find some mechanism to cope. anything that works is fine.

have a good day today. if only for a moment.

134. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

oh, wonderfully disengenuous … you spent all of your vitriol on Taylor, none on the faux chippie, and …

Well, I guess I just made the mistake of assuming we were all on the same page about Laura Ingraham and I didn’t really *need* to go into a ritual denunciation of Fox News before proceeding.

I guess I guessed wrong.

hell, why am I bothering? jjb had the right response to your thrashing and scorn.

“Thrashing and scorn”

Something about the internet just loves words like this, words designed to belittle, infantalize, and frame the debate in psychoanalytic terms.


As if any expression of disillusionment or doubt or scepticism or unwillingness to be herded into the required attitude (Fox News Bad Anti-War Protesters Good Go Team) means you need to be fitted with a straight jacket.

I don’t think I’ll personalize this. You and “jjb” are obviously free to ignore anybody you want to on the internet, including me for whatever reason. But I will note the machinelike, dehumanizing way in which you frame your disagreement.

135. marisacat - 21 November 2007

Do we suck it up and vote Democrat? Or just continue to waive signs and chant Hey Hey Ho Ho Bush has got to go.


no one can say the theme here is lie down and vote for the party. Nor is it stand on the crutches and vote for the party.

And one thing to realise, this is outcome. And what delivered it came in cycles. Bush just understood how far he and h is backers could push the country. Frankly it is working. What a shame. Part of the Dem party sell job is that the conservatives or the Republicans or the wingers or or or is in collapse.

Hillary presents herself as the latest slayer of Republicans. Gee, please.

Sad to see blacks, working class, high school education only fall for it. Sad to see college educated fall for Obama. He is so empty. I think Michelle breathes air into him everyday… Fewer fall for Edwards. hard slog when you washed out in the preparatory Veepdom races..

Pathetic. People are TERRIFIED to face that there is no choice.

It will take food riots.

136. marisacat - 21 November 2007

I guess I just made the mistake of assuming we were all on the same page about Laura Ingraham and I didn’t really *need* to go into a ritual denunciation of Fox News before proceeding.

I guess I guessed wrong.

OH stop with the bullshit. No one here buys Fox News NOR Laura Ingraham.

137. marisacat - 21 November 2007

I am sorry to be rude but did yo think 6 years of what ever it is you did would MAKE A CHANGE?

Because that is what I hear. I wrote for RCP paper, I did hteir media, I marched,

and now i hear a sort of whine. And a cry to go back to being apolitical.

honestly did you think it would make a difference? One that you coule uh tabulate?

138. Madman in the Marketplace - 21 November 2007

see, that’s what I mean. You don’t give a reason for your … dismissal.

I’m not saying that protesters = good, faux news = bad, but what I am pointing out is that you direct all of your energy at resistance, no matter how effective/in-effective.

I’m asking questions of you, trying to drag out what exactly it is that you are pursuing. I will admit to paranoia … so many months of Meteor and etc. will make a leftist polemicist paranoid … but I really have to ask: what are you after?

Your photos are very well-framed, well composed. I’m just asking what you expect … some kind of perfect Gandhi-ism?

brush off my questions as “machinelike” if you wish, but the questions remain, and I don’t think they are unreasonable.

139. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

No one here buys Fox News NOR Laura Ingraham.

Then why waste time expending any energy on this particular oppresser and not just go straight into wondering what good appearing on Fox News does at all?

It strikes me that the protest movement is just as firmly entrenched into the professional wrestling culture of politics as the progressive Democrats are.

Good vs. Evil. We’re put and their toxic. Stand behind the police barricades, hold up signs and chant about Bush, Cheney and Alberto Gonzalez.

It’s stage managed enterainment and we’re all unwitting actors.

140. Hair Club for Men - 21 November 2007

but I really have to ask: what are you after?

This is what I thought last year.


I think I saw through Ned Lamont before anybody (which would have earned me the scorn of most people at the Daily Kos). Why bash a good man like Ned Lamont and waste your energy on people who try.

What if people would have reacted to Ned Lamont with “thrashing and scorn”. How much time would everybody have saved?

But I notice that I was also totally unboard with the “left’ protest agenda. I believed it would work.

But now it seems ritualistic and formulaic. Empty.

141. marisacat - 22 November 2007

Look I don’t even bother to think about Fox. I catch a little of it from time to time. Why would I waste my time agitating for Democrats not to go on it?

Obama made big waves that he would not go on Fox, the stupid blogs played it up, loved it… but as they don’t obther to drop in they did not catch all sorts of his senior advisors and staff on Fox chatting his campaign up.

You ahve caught on that the Dems really only want cross over voters? They are so assured of their tired base, voting as let me be blunt, dumb animals for the party.

Fox is moot. As frankly are thier Blonde Amazon Operatives, the Laura Ingrahms and the Barbara Constocks.

They are up and operating. None of that is going away.

142. marisacat - 22 November 2007

why is Ned Lamont “a good man”?

He supported Lieberman for years, then thought he could retire to the senate (the wife is the big earner) and the timing was good.

One more three legged dog.

143. BooHooHooMan - 22 November 2007

Until your shot.

144. marisacat - 22 November 2007

basically you sound PEEVED.

It’s not inspiring, LOL.

Why don’t you send care packages to those who are serving 6 months in Federal prison for their protests?

145. Hair Club for Men - 22 November 2007

brush off my questions as “machinelike” if you wish, but the questions remain, and I don’t think they are unreasonable

Am I cynical about the protest movement because I hate “strong women”? Uh, no. I have nothing against Leslie Cagan or Sunsara Taylor or Cindy Sheehan or Medea Benjamin. In fact, I barely notice gender (consciously anyway). In fact, I wish Cindy Sheehan were “stronger”. I wish she were more serious about taking on Pelosi and mounting a serious campaign.

but I really have to ask: what are you after?

In 2001, I just wanted to keep my job after 19 Arab terrorists blew up half of Lower Manhattan and knocked out the infrastructure on my block. In 2004, I just wanted John Kerry to win. In 2005, I wanted people to get a clue about the Democrats and join the anti-war movement. In 2006, I wanted the Democrats to take Congress and impeach Bush. In 2007, who knows anymore? I want to get through Thanksgiving without getting into a fight with my brother.

some kind of perfect Gandhi-ism?

It strikes me that today they’d just tase Gandhi bro….

brush off my questions as “machinelike”

It was more the abuse I was brushing off.

so many months of Meteor and etc

After reading Peter Mathiessen I’m more sceptical of that character than ever before.

146. Hair Club for Men - 22 November 2007

why is Ned Lamont “a good man”?

Didn’t say he was. That’s why I posted that article. I detested him in 2006. “Ned Lamont is a good man” is something a Kosnik would say.

147. Hair Club for Men - 22 November 2007

Why don’t you send care packages to those who are serving 6 months in Federal prison for their protests?

That’s a good thing. Paying for legal fees is a good thing.

But maybe it’s the fact that these anti-war protests have nothing to do with the facts of peoples everyday lives. They’re more acts of will or acts of “moral resistence”.

That’s why groups like WCW try so hard to recruit students. Students have time. They can drop out of school and rebel for a few months before going back.

But that model’s not going to work with the rest of us.

148. marisacat - 22 November 2007

Oh I am sorry to be blunt, but you are just barely catching up… and you have the temerity to have a meltdown HERE?

…I wanted people to get a clue about the Democrats and join the anti-war movement. In 2006, I wanted the Democrats to take Congress and impeach Bush. In 2007, who knows anymore? I want to get through Thanksgiving without getting into a fight with my brother.

That’s fine… my thesis is that “everyone comes to the table”, but you need to face something… you are catching up.

Go off and weep for what America IS. it seems you need to do that.

149. marisacat - 22 November 2007

well I just had a mini Monarch and her West Coast court out here, saying she’d “do soemthing” about the Oil SPill.

Boxer sends LOL emails. Gavin snorts, here or in Hawai’i.

None of thsoe people achieve anything for us.

It ALSO does not matter that the protests don’t have much to do with peoples’ lives. MOST people don’t participate, in anything.

150. Madman in the Marketplace - 22 November 2007


I’m nothing special, but I was asking these questions before 911, and asking pointed questions about THE PARTY going into 04.

Again, I’m no leader. I have no insight, but you seem to be angry w/ people who protested before you got a fucking clue, and you seem to be angry with people who didn’t stop the meltdown before it got your attention.

Pissed that you’re not cashing in snapping faux protest?

Again, what is your beef, and why are you so angry at people who protest, no matter how imperfectly?

151. marisacat - 22 November 2007

LOL Karl Rove is on with Charlie Rose. And Rose is actually yelling at some points.

What a hoot!

152. bayprairie - 22 November 2007

Until your shot.

yeah. but then its over.

and if you lived long enough and its just you, and not someone you love, thats not so bad.

besides, the joke’s really on the baptists. there is no evermore.

153. Hair Club for Men - 22 November 2007

Again, I’m no leader. I have no insight, but you seem to be angry w/ people who protested before you got a fucking clue

So Cindy Sheehan supported the war in Iraq right through 2003 and into 2004. So by your standards she should shut up and listen to old hands you like because you were protesting before she got a clue.

I’m not comparing myself to Cindy Sheehan. My son didn’t die in Iraq. But I was in lower Manhattan about 300 yards away from both towers when they went down and it was a pretty traumatic awakening. I’m not sure why a personal exprerience that smacks you over the head is any less valauble than having done something for awhile.

Pissed that you’re not cashing in snapping faux protest?

I started talking photos after 9/11 as a sort of therapy but not of people, of buildings. I was angry that I had nothing of lower Manhattan before it was turned into an inferno, nothing of the years I spent in Southeast Alaska and British Columbia. At one point during the anthrax attacks, I felt as if the whole world was about to fall apart and taking photos helped me feel a sense of permanance.

I started taking photos of protests in early 2003 when I went to the February 15th protest and thought it was going to be historic. I wasn’t very good at it but it intrigued me so I kept doing it. There was nothing really mercenary about it. In fact, I don’t even like taking these kinds of photos anymore. I always feel as if I’m doing surveillance or if I’m going to be turned into Josh Wolf when the cops demand originals. But I usually *get asked* by the organizers of one protest or another. And I’ve gotten photographs published in I don’t know how many books, pamplets calanders, newspapers, and haven’t made, or asked for a dime. So you’re way off here.

Again, what is your beef, and why are you so angry at people who protest, no matter how imperfectly?

Well I don’t know if I’m angry or not but since you use the word twice and twice more in different variations, I’ll take your word for it.

Maybe it’s like watching your team lose and knowing they could do better. That’s the best I can do now.

154. marisacat - 22 November 2007

well you seem very shocked by things that are not very surprising to people who were politically aware longer.

As i have said about hte Jersey girls, sorry their husbands died that way, but they voted for Bush and their believed in their corporate lives.

I am unsure that CS supported the war, she did not want her son to go, did not want him to sign up even…

And again, you seem peeved that all that you did did not result – again – in things you can tabulate.

I don’t think it works that way. For one thing, the hard right is not going away in America. It never has.

LOL I just heard Rove indicate that the full story of WHY the IWR was voted on in October 02 — will be in his book (what else is new). He let it hang in the air that the administration was “rushed to war”… and that the Dems wanted that vote prior to the election.

Oh if only they would go for the big arteries… let the blood run. But they need each other. There will be no murder suicide, not of two corrupt parties.

155. Hair Club for Men - 22 November 2007

As i have said about hte Jersey girls, sorry their husbands died that way, but they voted for Bush and their believed in their corporate lives.

I grew up with people like this. Most of my family is like this.

All of the signals from the moment you go to pre-school until you retire tell you you should be apolitical if possible, middle of the road if you can’t avoid thinking about politics. Not arguing about politics or religion is a sign of maturity. You know that some people have it worse off than you so you give money to charity and vote for politicians who seem earnestly dedicated to finding a “solution”. I grew up with Tom Kean as governer and Bill Bradly as Senator. Not much difference between both parties.

I got involved in student activism when I was in college because I was a bit of a misfit and it helped me come to terms with that. I actually went to El Salvador when I was 18. I actually met one of the Jesuits who was murdered in 1989, a few weeks before he was killed. Maybe that should have woken me up but it didn’t. I didn’t feel as if I understood what happened or if I had any business trying to. I wanted to be “normal”.

So my suburban upbringing kicked in and I spent the 90s trying to be “normal”, apoltical, going to therapy, trying to “fit in”. The more “political” I was, the more I felt as if it were only something personal, like I hated women or I was “angry” or any one of the things MITM is giong to accuse me of.

When 9/11 hit, I just wanted to stay “moderate” and apolitical. I got mad at people who were trying to push me into hating Muslims. Why are they bothering me?

But what happens when the entire awesomely powerful US government and media is trying to push you into something. I remembered looking at a TV in my building a few blocks south of Ground Zero with the cops not letting us out and Tom Brocaw saying over and over again “we are at war. We are at war”.

Nobody wants to be at war. Why would you want to if you’re a nice Republican woman in Middletown?

But then again, none of the “Jersey Girls” responded by blaming Muslims or calling for more people to die. They just wanted the government to work. That’s how normal people respond.

And now most are just shutting things out.

156. marisacat - 22 November 2007

As I said up thread, people are shutting out and shutting down as they are terrified of facing that there is no choice.

It will take food riots. Starvation.

I am very sorry for the Jersey Girls, but not knowing about the two houses of Congress and still voting for the president is a nation at great risk. And millions are like them. None of that will be changing soon, I don’t think.

Who knows, maybe 2012 is interesting. Could happen I suppose…

And then they were snookered by the Kerry camp, Mary Beth cahill assured them their issues would be addressed on the stump… LOL – after they HAD indeed fought the good fight for the 9/11 Commission. Would that it had mattered at all.

ONLY impeachment can make anything that has happened matter.

Here is what I thought that Tuesday when the planes hit:

thank god it is here, it is finally here. I don’t have to wait anymore.

And I was really glad my h ouseguest was out of the state, I did not have to be bothered listening to ‘shock and awe’, at the start of all that would come.

I feel for people who woke up then… I do.

157. marisacat - 22 November 2007

One last thing before I go… a sad tale of woe, The Last Days of Mexican Corn – with an Iraq story tucked inside:

[M]oreover, as farmers from other climes who have resisted Monsanto and refused to buy into the GMO blitz, have learned only too traumatically, pollen blowing off contaminated fields will spread to non-GMO crops. Even more egregiously, Monsanto will then send “inspectors” (often off-duty cops) to your farm and detect their patented strains in your fields and charge you with stealing the corporation’s property.

When Saskatchewan farmer Percy Schmeiser came to Mexico several years back to explain how Monsanto had taken his farm from him for precisely these reasons, local legislators laughed that it was a science fiction scenario. “It is going to happen to you,” the old farmer warned with all the prescience of an Aztec seer.

Mexican corn is, of course, not the only native crop that is being disappeared by global capitalism.

Native seeds are under siege from pole to pole. In Iraq, where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers come together to form the birthplace of agriculture, one of the very first acts of George Bush’s neo-colonial satrap L. Paul Brenner was to issue the notorious Order 81 criminalizing the possession of native seeds.

The U.S. military spread out throughout the land distributing little packets of GMO seeds, the euphemistically dubbed Operation “Amber Waves.”

To make sure that Iraq would no longer have a native agriculture, the national seed bank, located at Abu Ghraib, was looted and set afire.

so “mismanaged”. Right.

Vote for Hillary, she’s for change. I see creeping exhortations to vote Democratic, Vote for HIllary and lie down and accept your fate all over the netteries. Or, at the very least, learn to discuss things with conservatives. Always a good Trojan Horse.

158. wu ming - 22 November 2007

every time i think i’ve heard all the evil shit done to the iraqis, one of these stories comes by and raises the bar.

even hulagu khan didn’t fuck with the farmer’s seed grain.

159. Miss Devore - 22 November 2007

{waves to wu ming}

damn, I hate it when Marisa shuts down the rides!

160. ms_xeno - 22 November 2007

bayprairie can write all my feminist attack-dog posts from now on. I only hope that she’ll accept payment in cookies and fridge magnets. 😀

Madman, that McKay song is fabulous. You might like The Lascivious Biddies, too.

I suggest the song “Famous” as our future blog model, apolitical division.

😉 Everyone enjoy the day. Mcat, thanks for the nostalgic teacup pic.

161. bayprairie - 23 November 2007

my god i just caught the last 20 minutes of what might arguably be the worst movie i’ve ever seen in my life.

westward the women.

the only thing worse might be the terror of tiny town.

its a western, so shoot me. please.

162. bayprairie - 23 November 2007

bayprairie can write all my feminist attack-dog posts from now on. I only hope that she’ll accept payment in cookies and fridge magnets. 😀

you know a couple of years ago i could get a good rant going about some assberet like marcotte.

but life’s too short and whats the point anyway? her party sucks, and she sucks and everyone who has half a clue knows it.

she’s a 95-10 feminist and dances naked to harry ried’s DFL violin by moonlight, what else is there to say?

oh im really into salty/vinegary things. like those half-dones. magnets are kewl though. haha. and i do love chocolate!

163. moiv - 23 November 2007

Ha! “westward the women”

I saw it once, maybe 30 years ago, and PTSD just kicked in. I must carry the trauma to this day, because I just had a flashback to Marjorie Main and the grave of Jim Quackenbush.

[back to bed]

164. Madman in the Marketplace - 23 November 2007

Thanks for the Biddies Ms_x!

165. cad - 23 November 2007

Kos demoted himself by taking the gig (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:DaveinCleveland

He has now been safely marginalized by the MSM. I at least hope the paycheck is good.

by Jim J on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 12:42:44 PM PST

166. wu ming - 23 November 2007

[waves to miss dee]

and now back to your regularly scheduled turkey leftover coma.

167. test - 24 November 2007


168. cad - 25 November 2007

Anal much?

Be sure you add the standard tags for (0 / 0)
election related diaries (I added them here), to your past diaries if they are not there and to any future election related diaries.

Standard tags for election related diaries are:

“2008 elections”
Then the office as a separate tag: “President” or “House” or “Senate” or “Governor”
Next, for state races add the appropriate tags like: “TX-Sen”, “OH-10”, “MN-Gov” or “statename elections” (ex: “New York elections” for races like state legislators)
With state elections, add the name of the state spelled out – no abbreviations.
First and Last names of candidates discussed in the diary, entered as a single tag; Ex: “Hillary Clinton”
When discussing debates add: The name of the state the debate is in and the tag, “debate”
Add “Democrats” and/or “Republicans” as appropriate
During primary season add: “primaries”
Other common tags include “campaign ads,” “fundraising” and “endorsements”

Not sure whether to enter “phone banking” or phonebanking”? Review standard election related tags here.
Tips on Creating Good Diary Tags

Healthcare for ALL! NOW! & OneCare at MySpace

by SarahLee on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:48:13 AM PST

169. mattes - 25 November 2007
170. ms_xeno - 26 November 2007



Joel Gray was awesome in that. Marcotte is so very not worthy.

171. cad - 26 November 2007

Here’s a hilarious Kos rant located a few inches below that flapping Chevron flag. Then Kos gets to call Kucinich a nut. He’s become such a nice little go-to-whore for the MSM. Visions of another home far from the plebes no doubt:

The energy industry’s single biggest accomplish was to turn the battle for energy independence and global warming into a partisan issue. Ultimately, the best chance at securing our nation’s security is to become energy self-sufficient, and to do that will require an investment in fuel efficient technologies and alternate fuels.

172. Miss Devore - 26 November 2007

I’m becoming cat-shitterer-atonic without OG& P.

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